Will the Atlanta Braves win their 15th consecutive Division Championship? [Archive]

MikeVic

06-28-2006, 09:57 AM

I forgot how many the Braves had won, so I went to wikipedia and just quickly looked at the number. Although they do mention the Expos thing... Believe me, I remember that year. Still have some magazine where a computer sim finished the rest of the season, and the Expos ended up winning the World Series.... :(

wade moore

06-28-2006, 09:58 AM

They haven't won 15 in a row though. :) (everyone forgets '94 when the Expos had a 6 game lead after 114 games)

There is no question it ends this year.

Great, great run. Tis over now.

This doesn't actually count in the record books as a "division title" for the Expos though, right? To me the 15 in a row argument is totally legit, and I'm far from a Braves fan.

Butter

06-28-2006, 09:58 AM

With all due respect, it's a little late to ask this question. There's no way they come back from that far down with 1/2 a season left. It's a virtual certainty at this point.

st.cronin

06-28-2006, 10:04 AM

This doesn't actually count in the record books as a "division title" for the Expos though, right? To me the 15 in a row argument is totally legit, and I'm far from a Braves fan.

I agree. People saying it shouldn't count are like people who said Roger Maris should get the asterisk for 61. It may be 5% less impressive than some hypothetical team winning 15 titles in 15 years, but it is what it is.

clintl

06-28-2006, 10:09 AM

I agree with TroyF's position. MLB didn't complete the 1994 season, but the Expos were the division leaders when the season was stopped, and should be recognized as the division champions for that year.

But they still have 11 in a row, which is almost as impressive as 14. And yes, this is the year it ends. I don't see that they have the talent to make up that much ground.

wade moore

06-28-2006, 10:12 AM

MikeVic

06-28-2006, 10:15 AM

With all due respect, it's a little late to ask this question. There's no way they come back from that far down with 1/2 a season left. It's a virtual certainty at this point.

I'm just curious what percentage of people think they can make it back somehow. I don't think it can be done either, but nothing is impossible.

oykib

06-28-2006, 10:32 AM

I'm just curious what percentage of people think they can make it back somehow. I don't think it can be done either, but nothing is impossible.

The problem with teams coming back from that far back is that they are that far back for a reason. I don't see anything happening to make the Braves improve that greatly. And the Mets have too many good players to come back to the pack.

clintl

06-28-2006, 10:37 AM

But wait.

If you go in the record books for MLB, do the Expos have a division title for 1994?

I say yes. All the individual stats for that season count in the record books. Tony Gwynn (who not only hit .394, but came very close to having enough plate appearance to qualify for the batting title for a full season) is recognized as the NL batting champ. I fail to see the logic of recognizing individual achievements, but not team achievements, for the season.

I really don't know MLB's official position on that matter. I'm assuming MLB says no, since the 14 consecutive division titles figure is bantered around so widely. But it's run by Bud Selig, so you can't really expect fairness and logic. Eventually, I believe that someone will become commissioner who has the good sense to officially recognize the Expos as the 1994 division champions.

st.cronin

06-28-2006, 10:41 AM

Eventually, I believe that someone will become commissioner who has the good sense to officially recognize the Expos as the 1994 division champions.

Which will delight Expos fans everywhere.

Butter

06-28-2006, 10:46 AM

Before we go crazy here, the Reds would've won the NL pennant in '94.

TroyF

06-28-2006, 10:49 AM

But wait.

If you go in the record books for MLB, do the Expos have a division title for 1994?

I don't know. Good question. My guess is that the Expos would be credited with the division title that year. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. It's not like we are talking about a 50 game season that was wiped out. They'd went through 2/3 of the season. 6 games certainly isn't impossible to come back from, but the Expos had played strong all year and looked like a safe bet to win the division that year.

wade moore

06-28-2006, 10:49 AM

I say yes. All the individual stats for that season count in the record books. Tony Gwynn (who not only hit .394, but came very close to having enough plate appearance to qualify for the batting title for a full season) is recognized as the NL batting champ. I fail to see the logic of recognizing individual achievements, but not team achievements, for the season.

I really don't know MLB's official position on that matter. I'm assuming MLB says no, since the 14 consecutive division titles figure is bantered around so widely. But it's run by Bud Selig, so you can't really expect fairness and logic. Eventually, I believe that someone will become commissioner who has the good sense to officially recognize the Expos as the 1994 division champions.

Hrmm.. well.. FWIW, I don't think individual achievements (i.e. batting title) should be recognized either.. but.. let's look at it differently..

Was there an MVP? Was there a Cy Young? To me these are the true final awards... I just don't think that any "awards" should be given for this season and this includes division titles.

TroyF

06-28-2006, 10:55 AM

Hrmm.. well.. FWIW, I don't think individual achievements (i.e. batting title) should be recognized either.. but.. let's look at it differently..

Was there an MVP? Was there a Cy Young? To me these are the true final awards... I just don't think that any "awards" should be given for this season and this includes division titles.

There were MVP's (Jeff Bagwell and Frank Thomas) and there were Cy Youngs as well as Gold Glove Winners, rookies of the year, managers of the year and Fireman of the year.

edit: missed up on NL MVP

MikeVic

06-28-2006, 10:57 AM

So, remember how awesome that Expos team was? :( lol.

wade moore

06-28-2006, 10:58 AM

There were MVP's (Barry Larkin and Frank Thomas) and there were Cy Youngs as well as Gold Glove Winners, rookies of the year, managers of the year and Fireman of the year

Interesting...

In that case I disagree with it, but if those awards are given, the division title should be.

Strange to me to have all of those awards, and no Champion.

MikeVic

06-28-2006, 11:01 AM

Before we go crazy here, the Reds would've won the NL pennant in '94.

Are you sure? The Expos has the best record... and were quite a few games ahead of the Reds...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/alltime/season?year=1994

Butter

06-28-2006, 11:06 AM

Yes, I'm sure. And to clarify, I'm talking about if those teams had met in the playoffs, not who we would be declaring as winners after the fact.

spleen1015

06-28-2006, 11:10 AM

Let's not forget that Matt Williams was on pace to beat Maris' record, I believe.

TroyF

06-28-2006, 11:17 AM

Yes, I'm sure. And to clarify, I'm talking about if those teams had met in the playoffs, not who we would be declaring as winners after the fact.

IMHO, it would have been a great series, and I would have called it a coin flip series. Both teams had great players. Expos were 3rd in the league in runs per game and 1st in ERA. Reds were 1st in runs, 3rd in ERA.

I think the Reds would have had their work cut out for them with the Astros that year. The Astros looked good and had Bagwell, Biggio, Caminiti, and Finley all in their primes. Didn't have as good of pitching, but you never know if a guy or two would have gotten hot.

Personaly, I'd have favored the Expos against anyone in the NL that year. I believe the White Sox would have won the WS that year.

JeeberD

06-28-2006, 11:22 AM

Yes, I'm sure. And to clarify, I'm talking about if those teams had met in the playoffs, not who we would be declaring as winners after the fact.

Who's to say that the Reds would have won the division? The (MVP) Jeff Bagwell led Astros were RIGHT on the Reds heels...

Edit: Beaten to the punch by Troy.

MikeVic

06-28-2006, 11:24 AM

Who's to say that the Reds would have won the division? The (MVP) Jeff Bagwell led Astros were RIGHT on the Reds heels...

Edit: Beaten to the punch by Troy.

Ah, Doug Drabek.

jbmagic

06-28-2006, 11:42 AM

I'm just curious what percentage of people think they can make it back somehow. I don't think it can be done either, but nothing is impossible.

Too many teams for them to jump over.

If Atlanta was in 2nd place they could have a chance.

I remember in the 80's when the Dodgers was like 11.5 games out in late August and came back to tie Atlanta for first place in the last game of the season.

Lathum

06-28-2006, 11:50 AM

no shot, and that will be proven when the trade Smoltz before the deadline.

Pyser

06-28-2006, 11:50 AM

hey, just look at hockey. the devils were 6 games out with 6 games to play, and they won the division just 3 months ago. and thats only an 82 game schedule.

as a mets fan, i fully, 100% believe the braves can win the division. i wont believe we finally beat them until i see the season end.

SackAttack

06-28-2006, 12:06 PM

They had a run a couple years ago where folks gave them up for dead in June and they played about .700 ball the rest of the way to win the division.

Marlins had a similar comeback to take the wild card when they won the World Series in '03.

I wouldn't count them out yet, but I would put them on life support.

ISiddiqui

06-28-2006, 12:10 PM

The different this year, IMO, is that the Braves lack the pitching that could get them into such a run. Smoltz and Hudson are solid but beyond that, the starting rotation is in tatters. The bullpen is beyond awful.

MJ4H

06-28-2006, 12:11 PM

i dunno mebbe

Butter

06-28-2006, 12:13 PM

I think the Reds would have had their work cut out for them with the Astros that year. The Astros looked good and had Bagwell, Biggio, Caminiti, and Finley all in their primes. Didn't have as good of pitching, but you never know if a guy or two would have gotten hot.

Astros, Shmastros. How many times did the Biggio/Bagwell version make the playoffs only to lose in the first round?

I'll tell you: 43.

TroyF

06-28-2006, 12:33 PM

Astros, Shmastros. How many times did the Biggio/Bagwell version make the playoffs only to lose in the first round?

I'll tell you: 43.

OK, but isn't the key thing that they MADE the playoffs most of the t

The Braves were 2 games ahead of both the Reds and Astros. It wasn't a lock the loser would get the WC.

Pyser

06-28-2006, 12:50 PM

um, didnt the WC start in 95?

furthermore, when was realignment?

JonInMiddleGA

06-28-2006, 01:40 PM

... until i see the season end.

Which, for the Braves, should be sometime in August when they're mathematically eliminated.

(Or, alternately, this season ended for them in early April)

Pyser

06-28-2006, 01:44 PM

Which, for the Braves, should be sometime in August when they're mathematically eliminated.

(Or, alternately, this season ended for them in early April)

hey, for 13 of the last 14 years thats been us! give us ONE!

ISiddiqui

06-28-2006, 01:45 PM

um, didnt the WC start in 95?

furthermore, when was realignment?

Started in 1994, but, of course, never materialized since the strike canceled the postseason.

I think realignment was also that year (94).

TazFTW

06-28-2006, 02:23 PM

I hate the bullpen.

Vince

06-28-2006, 03:50 PM

Let's not forget that Matt Williams was on pace to beat Maris' record, I believe.

Thank you.

TroyF

06-28-2006, 04:04 PM

um, didnt the WC start in 95?

furthermore, when was realignment?

Both started that year. It would have been the first real penant stretch WC race.

TazFTW

06-28-2006, 04:08 PM

I really hate the bullpen.

JonInMiddleGA

06-28-2006, 05:30 PM

I really hate the bullpen.

I ain't real fond of the hitters either.

If they don't leave 14 men on base then it's at least tougher for the bullpen to blow a game.

stevew

06-28-2006, 05:43 PM

I still have faith in Atlanta. Despite the tough loss today, I think they can start putting it together. And I think the Mets will fade.

Travis

06-28-2006, 05:55 PM

Let's not forget that Matt Williams was on pace to beat Maris' record, I believe.

Won't be forgotten here. I've gotten some funny looks from Bonds fans who come up to me when I'm wearing my Giants jersies, then they see the name and number on the back and go, "who?"

And I believe not only was he on pace, but over 162 games (think it was something like the last 10 games of the season before, the entire '94 season, then however many games to start the following season, he would have broken the record in the right number of games played. Of course, '94 was his best power year, so based on his HR/AB ratio, he could have done even better than the sample size selected, but between the Expos/Williams and Gwynn, that was a horrible way for their seasons to end.

miami_fan

06-28-2006, 06:05 PM

Hell no! They would have to jump over those mighty Marlins!:D

Seriously, the Braves are on life support but I can't bury them just yet.

JeeberD

06-28-2006, 06:06 PM

Bags would have caught Williams... :p

ISiddiqui

06-28-2006, 06:38 PM

Bonds would have caught both of them ;).

clintl

06-28-2006, 08:36 PM

Won't be forgotten here. I've gotten some funny looks from Bonds fans who come up to me when I'm wearing my Giants jersies, then they see the name and number on the back and go, "who?"

Anybody who has forgotten Matt Williams is no true Giants fan.

Buccaneer

07-16-2006, 08:03 PM

I wish the Braves were dead and buried and played like it. With everyone else in the West losing, it could've given the Pads a good cushion.

TazFTW

07-17-2006, 09:38 PM

You don't win 14 straight divisions by laying down when the going gets tough. Too late to do anything about the division but they're making a run for the wild card.

ISiddiqui

07-17-2006, 10:02 PM

Eh... don't worry Bucc... the Braves aren't this good nor are they as bad as team in June. They are distinctly in the middle. That should give your Pads some 'cushion', but you have to do your end of the bargain.

primelord

07-17-2006, 10:14 PM

I think the more interesting Braves poll would be will Jeff Francoeur top the 10:1 K:BB ratio. Has that ever even happened before? Inky and Kingman never did it.

75 Ks and 8 BBs is possibly the most ridiculous stat I have ever seen.

miami_fan

07-18-2006, 08:09 PM

This is freakin ridiculous! 8 runs 10 hits in 3 2/3 innings! I have heard of teams hoping that two or three guys getting hot at the same time. The Braves have 6,7,or 8 guys who are hot.

SackAttack

07-18-2006, 08:14 PM

This is freakin ridiculous! 8 runs 10 hits in 3 2/3 innings! I have heard of teams hoping that two or three guys getting hot at the same time. The Braves have 6,7,or 8 guys who are hot.

Couple years back, the Braves were 10 under .500 at one point and ran off a 3 or 4 month hot streak that culminated in a division title.

Granted, nobody else in the division was playing the way the Mets are this season, so it's unlikely we'll see a repeat, but the lesson is never count the Braves dead until the nail is in the coffin, cremated, and the ashes scattered off the Georgia coast.

Or until they actually lose a division title in a 162-game season.