2006-07 Soccer Thread

[cartman]

Sounds like a HUGE deal is brewing in a three way swap between Barcelona, Real Madrid, and AC Milan. Milan will buy Ronaldihno for $100 million, and Real will buy Kaka for $50 million. This is the only English story I could find on it: hxxp://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=102819

[tanglewood]

lol, I will say now that that is a pile of crap. I am more than willing to look like a fool if the minute possibility of this happening is realised. But seriously, that's not going to happen.

[ISiddiqui]

I agree with tanglewood. Sounds like fantasy soccer ;).

[ice4277]

lol, I will say now that that is a pile of crap. I am more than willing to look like a fool if the minute possibility of this happening is realised. But seriously, that's not going to happen.

Agreed. In the end, for Barca, it would basically work out to them losing Ronaldinho and seeing Kaka go to their closest rivals. Granted, they would take home a lot of cash, but it doesn't matter if you don't have anybody you are planning on bringing in, and I can't see anybody close to Ronaldinho coming in at this point of the year.

[ISiddiqui]

In addition, there is the chance that Milan won't be in any European competitions and I don't think Ronaldinho would like to be a part of that (and that Milan will have the cash to pay to him).

[Critch]

Haven't seen anything about that deal today. Only rumors I've seen are Ashley Cole to Madrid in a cut price deal (either 7mil pounds or 14mil pounds less than Chelsea have offered depending on which paper you read) and Hamburg have been offered Saviola from Barcelona, and may sign Sanogo as well.

[BreizhManu]

Living in Barcelona I can tell you this is pure BS, Ronaldinho is a god here, no way in hell there selling him unless they want to be killed by the fans.

[Critch]

Living in Barcelona I can tell you this is pure BS, Ronaldinho is a god here, no way in hell there selling him unless they want to be killed by the fans.

I read that Ronaldinho has a release fee in his contract, it started at 130mil Euros and drops 10mil per season. He's been at Barcelona for 3 years now, so the $100mil rumor should be roundabout the release fee so it might be out of Barcelona's hands.

I'd put very long odds on the rumor being anywhere near true (although I could believe the Kaka to Real half), just saying that the $100mil amount may not have just been pulled out of thin air.

[tanglewood]

But why would he want to leave?

[Critch]

But why would he want to leave?

Milan could offer silly money?

That's all hypothetical anyway. I don't believe there will be an offer, and I don't think Ronaldinho would want to leave anyway. I was just pointing out that the 100mil quoted may be enough to trigger his release clause so overcome Barcelona's reluctance to sell him.

[cartman]

Berlusconi doesn't have his old job as Italian Prime Minister to distract him anymore, so he might be ready to emulate Abramovich and splash his billions on his team. Rumor has it he was pretty angry that Shevchenko left for Chelsea.

[MIJB#19]

Milan recently announced they are not going to do business with Real Madrid in the near future after Madrid tried to contact Kaka behind their backs. They blamed the new people in charge at Madrid, as they clearly were not up to date with G-14 ethics.

[Desnudo]

Milan has gone from probably my (only) favorite team in Serie A to a team I will actively cheer against.

[Ryan S]

UEFA have confirmed that Milan are playing in the Champions League this season.

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/UCL/news/Kind=1/newsId=441316.html

[MIJB#19]

That statement is just a sorry excuse to tell us they didn't have the balls to exclude AC Milan. They threw teams out before, I really can't believe the 'no legal grounds' excuse. I feel like boycotting the UEFA Champions' League for this upcoming season.

[ISiddiqui]

What a bunch of total BS.

[Critch]

As soon as the Italian FA put forward AC Milan, there wasn't a whole lot UEFA could do without risking injunctions and court cases. As soon as the Italian FA reduced the punishment, it was always odds on that UEFA would accept Milan.

[MIJB#19]

As I understand the UEFA's own regulations were a problem, shouldn't it be clear that the rules were intended to include cases like this one? Teams bribing their way into the UEFA competitions should not be allowed access. It's really sad that they have to allow Milan on these grounds (and although I have a hard time believing it, their words in the statement do make it clear that they are not happy about allowing AC Milan).

Of course, in the end, the real 'bad guy' in this is the Italian football association for rewarding Milan.

[Critch]

For me the real bad guys are Juventus. The other teams involved were minor cogs in the scheme, plus there's very little evidence to link AC Milan to the scheme at all. The strongest evidence I've read about it that a minor member of the AC Milan backroom may have asked an assistant referee for help.

If it wasn't for the whole Juventus scandal, AC Milan probably wouldn't even have been this harshly dealt with. Same goes for Fiorentina.

[Neuqua]

Anyone play EPL Fantasy football? Any recommendations?

[Ryan S]

Anyone play EPL Fantasy football? Any recommendations?

http://fantasy.premierleague.com/

[PilotMan]

Berlusconi is a crook and the only likely reason that his team wasn't involved was that he was the head of the govt for so long that they were already top notch about making things disappear. He is a corrupt man, and that has to bleed over to the way that he runs his team.

[Katon]

But if you're going to argue that way, then suddenly his "I could do better than that" defence actually becomes halfway credible - he's the Prime Minister, he's capable of making all the evidence of Milan's involvement disappear, they've got one of the best squads in Europe (better than Juve, judging by the CL), and the best he can fix is second place?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

But if you're going to argue that way, then suddenly his "I could do better than that" defence actually becomes halfway credible - he's the Prime Minister, he's capable of making all the evidence of Milan's involvement disappear, they've got one of the best squads in Europe (better than Juve, judging by the CL), and the best he can fix is second place?

Hold on a second. You can't seriously say that Milan had a better side because of the Champions League. I guess that means that Chelsea have a crap side since they tend to stumble in the CL, and since Liverpool won the CL a couple of years ago, they must be better than Chelsea. :rolleyes:

Some squads are built for the CL and some are built for their domestic leagues. Milan might be better equipped to play in the CL, but that doesn't automatically make them better than Juve.

[Desnudo]

But if you're going to argue that way, then suddenly his "I could do better than that" defence actually becomes halfway credible - he's the Prime Minister, he's capable of making all the evidence of Milan's involvement disappear, they've got one of the best squads in Europe (better than Juve, judging by the CL), and the best he can fix is second place?

Yes, because Juve was also trying to fix matches.

[Katon]

Two semis in three years is "tending to stumble"?

Your basic point is valid, though. I'll rephrase: Milan have a squad which is clearly on the same general level as Juve's (and does better in competitions where Moggi isn't meddling with the refs, though as you point out that's probably mostly because they're a better cup team), and Berlusconi is more influential in Italy than Moggi. If he's this super-conspirator who can make all evidence of Milan's wrongdoing disappear, why can't he wrongdo effectively enough to win them a title?

Milan have essentially been stripped of the last two Serie A titles, as well as having points deducted for this season and having to go through the qualifying rounds for the CL. I think you have to have solid evidence of something significant before doing anything more to them, and there's been no sign of anything like that.

[Katon]

Yes, because Juve was also trying to fix matches.

But why is Moggi better at it than Berlusconi? If you're going to say Berlusconi is sneaky enough to make all evidence against Milan disappear, then given that he was the Prime Minister for a lot of the period under discussion the same level of competence ought to be enough to fix at least one season successfully.

Also, I originally said that Berlusconi's argument was 'halfway credible'. That's a fairly low standard. It's not that I entirely believe it; it's just that it's plausible enough that you really need some evidence before you declare him to be irredeemably guilty (of this particular crime, anyway).

[Desnudo]

Because influencing the refs is not a guarantee that you'll win, just an insurance policy? It sounds to me like they tried to do something that would help them win, but they felt would fly below the radar in terms of being too suspicious.

I don't think Berlusconi's argument is credible, because anyone with enough money can attempt to fix matches, often successfully based on prior history. It's the getting away with it that's the hard part, which is probably why they only tried to influence, rather than arrange.

Point being that sure he could have fixed it so Milan won the title, but probably would have gotten caught because it would have been too obvious. So you're left with trying to influence rather than fix, which is more random in outcome.

[Katon]

Possibly.

But, again, they've been denied the last two Serie A titles because of their involvement, they've got a points deduction for next year, and they have to play Red Star to qualify for the CL (which with Nesta out and Sheva still not replaced isn't an automatic win). What exactly is the argument for punishing them more heavily than that without any significant evidence?

[ice4277]

Possibly.

But, again, they've been denied the last two Serie A titles because of their involvement, they've got a points deduction for next year, and they have to play Red Star to qualify for the CL (which with Nesta out and Sheva still not replaced isn't an automatic win). What exactly is the argument for punishing them more heavily than that without any significant evidence?

"because"

[Desnudo]

Possibly.

But, again, they've been denied the last two Serie A titles because of their involvement, they've got a points deduction for next year, and they have to play Red Star to qualify for the CL (which with Nesta out and Sheva still not replaced isn't an automatic win). What exactly is the argument for punishing them more heavily than that without any significant evidence?

From what I read Milan was more guilty than either Lazio or Fiorentina. I believe Lazio? is the one that actually did little to nothing wrong. Considering what their punishment was, I think that being kicked out of the CL should have been just the start for Milan.

[Desnudo]

http://football.guardian.co.uk/rumourmill/

Thursday's rumours

Today's tittle-tattle is entering a world of pain

Rob Smyth
Thursday August 3, 2006
Guardian Unlimited


Kuyt is certain Wenger was in Rotterdam to see him. Photograph: Christof Koepsel/Getty.

It's a good-news day for everyone's favourite Only Fools And Horses character Peter Crouch. On the front page of today's soaraway Sun, his prudish, introverted, Hoover-nosed ex-girlfriend Abigail Clancy has found herself accidentally disrobed for just the 427th time this month; to make things worse, it says in the non-WAG section that Liverpool are going to sign Feyenoord striker Dirk Kuyt!
Kuyt, whose probable purchase owes everything to the fact that his surname is rhyming slang for the merits or otherwise of much of Liverpool's existing forward line, has already been the subject of a £6m bid from Rafa Benitez, but Feyenoord want nearer £10m. "I think we need an extra striker," said Benitez, holding his nose with one hand and slipping a surgical glove on the other for a quick inspection of Crouch, Robbie Fowler and Craig Bellamy.


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Talking of natural charmers, Portsmouth self-publicist Harry Redknapp has been up to his usual trick of telling the world which players he'd like to sign: this time he fancies scraping together £2m of someone else's money to spend on David James. "We need another keeper and David is a very good one," he said, showing his usual respect for opposition managers. "He is someone that I would like to bring here."
Gareth Southgate wanted to bring Steed Malbranque to Middlesbrough, too. But after a fee was agreed with Fulham, Malbranque refused to even talk to Boro - the most damaging blow to the credibility of the north east since Byker Grove's Spuggy last cracked a smile. "We agreed a fee with Fulham but the player didn't fancy it and he didn't want to speak with us. We're only interested in players who want to play for us," said Southgate, somehow reasoning that he still has the power in the relationship despite being emphatically and embarrassingly blown out.

One man who might be heading into Southgate's arms is Thomas Gravesen, the poor man's Stig Tofting. Gravesen, who has been 30 for the last five years, is on his way out of Real Madrid for £3m, and Boro looked to have the deal done - but now Newcastle's lemon-sucking manager Glenn Roeder is trying to hijack it.

Southgate is also going to sign Blackburn jock Brett Emerton for £1.5m, it says here, while Roeder, adhering to the Newcastle principle of 'never buy a defender when you can buy 444 forwards', is planning a £7m move for Empoli striker Francesco Tavano. Presumably the deal-clincher will be the success of similar Serie A dark horses Massimo Maccarone (£8.15m; 17 goals in 74 games) and Corrado Grabbi (£6.75m; two goals in 30 games) in the Premiership.

Down at Wigan, Paul Jewell wants to re-sign Nathan Ellington from West Brom for £3m - and he's also after the hot young Villarreal and Ecuador winger who the Sun calls "Luis Valcencia". You'd never get a mistake like that on these pages.

And last, least and all the rest, music mogul Kevin Campbell is going to sign a one-year deal at Cardiff. You couldn't possibly care less, could you?

[ISiddiqui]

Roeder, adhering to the Newcastle principle of 'never buy a defender when you can buy 444 forwards', is planning a £7m move for Empoli striker Francesco Tavano.

Uh... did this writer look at Newcastle's squad this year?!

[Crapshoot]

Uh... did this writer look at Newcastle's squad this year?!

Its the Guardian Imran - they always go for the funny angle, though agreed - a little misplaced here. But when your defense consists of Bramble and Boumsong, I think its always the greatest need. :D

[Katon]

From what I read Milan was more guilty than either Lazio or Fiorentina. I believe Lazio? is the one that actually did little to nothing wrong. Considering what their punishment was, I think that being kicked out of the CL should have been just the start for Milan.

It was, though. If they had been judged completely innocent, they would have been declared champions for both 04/05 and 05/06. Instead, one of those titles is vacant and the other belongs to Inter - who were almost certainly a worse team than Milan last year even under neutral refereeing. Does being stripped of two titles sound a bit more like it?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

It was, though. If they had been judged completely innocent, they would have been declared champions for both 04/05 and 05/06. Instead, one of those titles is vacant and the other belongs to Inter - who were almost certainly a worse team than Milan last year even under neutral refereeing. Does being stripped of two titles sound a bit more like it?

Being stripped of two titles they didn't win is supposed to be punishment? As a Juve supporter, I can tell you that the least important part of the punishment was the stripping of the titles.

Aside from relegation, the only serious punishment that can be meted out to a club is the denial of playing in Europe. So Milan got a little slap on the wrist and will have to play qualifiers to get in. The fact that they are even in the competition is what's a complete joke.

As far as UEFA's stance that their hands are tied because the Italian FA selected Milan for the CL, who do they think they're fooling? UEFA is trying to keep everyone happy by allowing Milan but saying that they really don't want to. Yeah, I buy that. UEFA was terrified of having a CL without Juve and Milan.

And what were the circumstances with Marseille when they were denied the CL? Did the French FA keep them out, or was it UEFA?

[Katon]

Winning titles is sort of the point of playing the games (and trying to rig them). It's obviously not going to be as painful for Milan as if they'd won those titles in regular play, but denying them two titles is definitely a noticeable punishment.

The Marseille punishment was a year or two before I got hooked on soccer, so I'm not sure who exactly kicked them out of the CL. In any case, UEFA's completely capable of changing the competitors in their tournament by fiat (*cough*Liverpool*cough*), so their press release is almost entirely about saving face rather than about accurately describing the legal situation. Not that that's particularly surprising.

I don't think Marseilles are a very good analogy, though. In that case, there was evidence that Tapie had paid off an opposing team - fixing matches more directly than Moggi ever did. In this case, there's evidence that an associate director (or something like) called an official to ask for a 'fair' (read: not one of Moggi's favorites) ref. Definitely not something he ought to be doing, but I think the current punishment is sufficient for that. If you've seen actual evidence of some other crime then please point it out to me, but everything I've seen suggests that the rest of the case is mostly built on a refusal to believe that Berlusconi can be even tangentially related to corruption like this without playing a major part. There's some logic to that, but not the sort that any judicial body ought to be paying attention to. UEFA and the Italian sporting courts have to make their judgements off of factual evidence rather than speculation, and there isn't much there against Milan. Again, if I'm missing some specific allegations then please point it out to me, but general speculation/dislike of Berlusconi is not a valid reason for an official body to punish anyone.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Winning titles is sort of the point of playing the games (and trying to rig them).

I wonder if this is really true any more. Sure, you would love to win your league, but if they had to choose between winning the league or winning the CL, I think most players would choose the CL. There's more prestige involved in that. That's why certain clubs (Liverpool) are built the way they are. They can play well in Europe, but their style doesn't translate to the EPL.

I don't think Marseilles are a very good analogy, though.

I wasn't trying to compare the Marseille scandal to what's going on in Italy. I brought them up because it's an instance where UEFA did kick someone out of the CL and I was curious if UEFA was denying they could do something that they've done in the past.

[Critch]

And what were the circumstances with Marseille when they were denied the CL? Did the French FA keep them out, or was it UEFA?

That was back in the days when only the league champion made it into the Champions League. As Marseille were stripped of the Championship they didnt qualify, so UEFA didn't get involved in that part of it.

Strange thing about that year was that the team that finished 2nd turned down the Champions League place, so it was third place Monaco who got the French spot.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Thanks for the info, Critch. Hearing the statements from UEFA prior to the Milan decision, I was under the impression that they were the ones to keep Marseille out.

It seems like they avoided a bullet back then and they really should have changed the rules to prevent anything like that from happening again.

[Katon]

I wonder if this is really true any more. Sure, you would love to win your league, but if they had to choose between winning the league or winning the CL, I think most players would choose the CL. There's more prestige involved in that. That's why certain clubs (Liverpool) are built the way they are. They can play well in Europe, but their style doesn't translate to the EPL.

Depends on the player, I'd think. And on what they'd won before. On the one hand the CL is more prestigious, but on the other hand there's always the feeling that the team winning a cup competition may not actually be the best team in it (e.g. Porto & Liverpool). Any team on Milan's level is going to try to win both. It matters a great deal to Milan whether or not they win the scudetto in a given year; winning one after-the-fact by decree would take quite a bit of the fun out, but I think this aspect of the punishment is still not completely insignificant.


I wasn't trying to compare the Marseille scandal to what's going on in Italy. I brought them up because it's an instance where UEFA did kick someone out of the CL and I was curious if UEFA was denying they could do something that they've done in the past.

Ah. Looking at it on wikipedia, it seems like the match where Tapie payed off Marseilles' opponents was actually the title-clinching game, so I imagine the French FA probably stripped them of that title, in which case UEFA wouldn't've had to do anything. I'm sure they can do it, though; they've added teams in the past when a national FA's interests went against the interests of the tournament as a whole (Liverpool), and there's no reason they couldn't work the same trick the other way. I've long since given up on expecting honesty or accuracy from the UEFA press office.

[Critch]

Thanks for the info, Critch. Hearing the statements from UEFA prior to the Milan decision, I was under the impression that they were the ones to keep Marseille out.

I'd guess it must've been UEFA that stopped Marseille playing in the European Super Cup thing and the game where the European Champion plays against the South American Champions. They were the official reigning European champions but AC Milan played instead.

[MIJB#19]

Good evidence or not, Milan has been punished for their part of being involved in fixing games. That should be enough reason to exclude them from playing in the Champions' League. The UEFA has always had (and taken) the freedom to deny the list of teams presented by national FA's, they should have played it hard and told the Italian FA to withdraw Milan or face a nationwide suspension. With this turn of happenings, the Italian FA sends out a message that fixing isn't right, but also isn't particularly wrong. They send out the message that Italian soccer is corrupt.

Stripping title or missing out on European competitions, I think the fans care more about the former. Going by attendance figures, European competitions tend to not be so important to Italian soccer fans, Juventus has always had trouble to even fill half of their stadium for Champions' League matches. Either the people in charge don't care to get the stadium full, or the fans really don't care until the final stages have been reached. Coincidentally AC Milan couldn't get their stadium above 2/3rd full for games before the semifinals last CL season.

[cthomer5000]

I'm curious, is tomorrow's MLS All-Stars/Chelsea game being broadcast in the UK?

[Critch]

I'm curious, is tomorrow's MLS All-Stars/Chelsea game being broadcast in the UK?

It's only on ChelseaTV, a subscription service for Chelsea fans.

Sky are concentrating on the Ajax Tournament (Ajax/Porto/Man Utd/Inter) and the first weekend of the Coca Cola Championship.

[Mac Howard]

I'm curious, is tomorrow's MLS All-Stars/Chelsea game being broadcast in the UK?Check ESPN - they're showing it here (Australia) so they're taking the feed.

[cthomer5000]

Well, I'm in the US... just curious as to whether it's getting any airtime overseas. I would think that is something MLS would want, if only to show how competitive their top guys can be (in a meaningless match).

[Critch]

Looks like Aston Villa are going to announce that Martin O'Neill is their new manager. So that will be long balls, central defenders that look and act like heavyweight boxers, and midfielders who kick opponents more than they kick the ball while developing bad necks from watching the ball fly overhead.

Next season's Villa v Bolton game should be a classic.

[AlexB]

Looks like Aston Villa are going to announce that Martin O'Neill is their new manager. So that will be long balls, central defenders that look and act like heavyweight boxers, and midfielders who kick opponents more than they kick the ball while developing bad necks from watching the ball fly overhead.

Next season's Villa v Bolton game should be a classic.

As a Leicester fan almost all of that description of O'Neill's sides is bollocks - the one bit I'll agree with is he likes the 'more physical' type of centre half: when we had Walsh, Taggart, Elliott and Prior to choose from it's a wonder any of the opposition dared to even mount an attack, let alone have a shot :D

[tanglewood]

Well, I'm in the US... just curious as to whether it's getting any airtime overseas. I would think that is something MLS would want, if only to show how competitive their top guys can be (in a meaningless match).

Your post was the first I'd heard of it. It hasn't been mentioned on Sky Sports News or anything as far as I'm aware.

[Critch]

As a Leicester fan almost all of that description of O'Neill's sides is bollocks - the one bit I'll agree with is he likes the 'more physical' type of centre half: when we had Walsh, Taggart, Elliott and Prior to choose from it's a wonder any of the opposition dared to even mount an attack, let alone have a shot :D

Well he must've changed then, because he was well known for longball and "rugged" defenders with Celtic.

edit - actually putting "long ball" and "martin o'neill" into google show's it's a split camp. Celtic and Leicester fans think they played good football, everybody else thinks they were long ball teams with fast wingers :)

He'll be more directed and successful than O'Leary was at Villa.

[Desnudo]

It was, though. If they had been judged completely innocent, they would have been declared champions for both 04/05 and 05/06. Instead, one of those titles is vacant and the other belongs to Inter - who were almost certainly a worse team than Milan last year even under neutral refereeing. Does being stripped of two titles sound a bit more like it?

Nah, who cares, honestly? Do you think Milan supporters would have taken to the streets to celebrate their "championships?" It's similar to winning the Tour de France after the race is over.

[Desnudo]

Nah, who cares, honestly? Do you think Milan supporters would have taken to the streets to celebrate their "championships?" It's similar to winning the Tour de France after the race is over.

Also, if they were deemed unworthy of the replacing Juve as champions in 05/06, that means they cheated. If they cheated, why in the world should they qualify for the CL?

[Desnudo]

http://football.guardian.co.uk/rumourmill/index/0,,1837327,00.html

Friday's rumours

Today's nonsense will work for furniture

Georgina Turner
Friday August 4, 2006
Guardian Unlimited


Gravesen hits out at news that Newcastle are in for him. Photograph: Felipe Sevillano/AP.

As 20,000 unemployed Geordies gather at St James' Park to watch the squad weave between small plastic cones, news reaches Rumours HQ that Michael Owen has been trying to persuade Thomas Gravesen to choose Newcastle. Now, we don't have access to this fascinating conversation, but we imagine the postcard reads something like: "Dear Tom, I had to leave Real after a nightmare year too. I was kind of hoping Liverpool might want me back but now I'm really glad that no one was inclined to top Fat Freddy's fat offer. I missed most of the season crocked but they still paid me huge wads of cash every week. It's a nice supplement to the income I make from bets with Wayne Rooney, you should try it." Gravesen also has Manchester City, Bolton or Galatasaray to choose from, apparently.

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Heading south, Manchester United have been offered £10m plus Roberto Ayala for Cristiano Ronaldo by Valencia. The Spaniards say they won't give up on the deal until United have said "no, no and no again". The Mill suggests they're more likely to get a "no, no - will youse lot just feck off, you're nae gettin' him and if ah see youse around here again so help me God you'll wish ah hadnae", but there's just no telling some people.
This summer's chief mall-dwellers Internazionale don't want their credit card to go cold, and are in for Luca Toni, it says here. They fancy pairing him up with Hernan Crespo, but they'll have to get past self-styled Don Mourinho first.

Robert Huth's move to Middlesbrough has stalled because they want to try and renegotiate a lower price. Blackburn's masked man Mark Hughes is snickering nearby, waiting to hijack the whole thing.

An expensive mistake for Kevin Blackwell at Leeds: he shouted "new barrel" after downing a bad pint of Stella and has had to cough up £2m for portly Spurs reject Andy Reid.

West Ham are convinced that they can succeed where virtually every other club in the entire country has failed and get a season-long loan deal for Shaun Wright-Phillips.

And, much as we hate to put you through this, we must mention the words "William" and "Gallas". Word is he could find his way out of Stamford Bridge if Arsenal can convince Chelsea to include him as part of a deal for Ashley Cole. Don't worry, it'll all be over soon. All you'll feel is a small scratch...

[Butter]

My friend tells me that DirecTV is testing out Sky Sports One on channel 9995 and a couple other Sky channels as well. Would be interesting to see a wider variety of international sports if they pick it up full time. For those of you who have DirecTV, of course. I, sadly, do not.

[Critch]

spoiler alert for anybody who has tivo set to record the Man Utd v Porto game on Setanta this afternoon
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Rooney got himself sent off again in a pre-season friendly v Porto and could well end up starting the season with a three game suspension. And he won't even be able to blame Ronaldo this time.

[ISiddiqui]

LOL @ Gravesen at Newcastle. I doubt that'll even come close to happening. What, so they'll have two Prem level 4 man midfields and no strikers or wing backs? Or maybe they'll go for the 3-6-1 ;).

Not happening.

[AlexB]

Well he must've changed then, because he was well known for longball and "rugged" defenders with Celtic.

edit - actually putting "long ball" and "martin o'neill" into google show's it's a split camp. Celtic and Leicester fans think they played good football, everybody else thinks they were long ball teams with fast wingers :)

He'll be more directed and successful than O'Leary was at Villa.

I think his first dozen or so games when we got promoted we were pretty direct, and maybe in the first year in the Prem when we were trying to consolidate, you could say we were direct, but still not long ball.

As we got more established, we were less direct, until in the final (4th year) we did indeed play some good stuff. On Sky Sports they still occasionally show the highlights when we tonked Sunderland 5-2, with Collymore scoring a hat-trick. Look out for it on ESPN Classic or similar - tell me after watching that we were long ball at that point!

If MoN had stayed, kept Heskey, Collymore and the rest of the side together, we would have had a very good chance of being a serious threat to the top 4-6 the next season - that team was very very good.

Unfortunately MoN left, Colly-wobbled, and although we sold Heskey for what now looks an excellent value £11m, we appointed Peter Taylor who fucked it all up.

However, at Villa he will be starting at least in the equivalent of our 2nd season in the Prem, or the equivalent of 18 months into his Leicester evolution, they will get the ball forward quickly, but it will not be by long hoofs, it will be by passing.

[Critch]

spoiler alert for anybody who has tivo set to record the Man Utd v Porto game on Setanta this afternoon
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.
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.
Rooney got himself sent off again in a pre-season friendly v Porto and could well end up starting the season with a three game suspension. And he won't even be able to blame Ronaldo this time.

Just watched the incident, complete joke. Rooney was sent off for next to nothing. Scholes was sent off too, but he's got less to complain about.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Stripping title or missing out on European competitions, I think the fans care more about the former. Going by attendance figures, European competitions tend to not be so important to Italian soccer fans, Juventus has always had trouble to even fill half of their stadium for Champions' League matches. Either the people in charge don't care to get the stadium full, or the fans really don't care until the final stages have been reached. Coincidentally AC Milan couldn't get their stadium above 2/3rd full for games before the semifinals last CL season.

If you're going by attendance figures to determine the importance of events, then I guess Serie A matches aren't that important to Juve supporters either, since they don't come close to filling the Stadio delle Alpi. Their three highest attendances last year were 33772 (Inter), 39087 (Milan), and 56488 (Palermo, the last home match of the season). This in a stadium that holds over 67,000. Most of the time attendance was below 30,000.

Conversely, here are the CL attendance numbers:

Rapid Vienna - 49,000
Bayern - 19,000 (I can't explain that)
Club Brugge - 35,000
Werder Bremen - 43,000
Arsenal - 50,000


For Milan, most of their Serie A matches played in front of 56,000.

In the CL:

Fenerbahce - 75,000
PSV Eindhoven - 69,000
Schalke 04 - 82,000
Bayern - 71,000
Lyon - 80,000
Barcelona - 85,000


It looks to me like the CL creates more interest than Serie A.

[Mac Howard]

Just watched the incident, complete joke. Rooney was sent off for next to nothing. Scholes was sent off too, but he's got less to complain about.Rooney was sent off because it was Rooney - one of the clearest cases of a reputation red card I've seen. I see a protest here if the ref reports it (because it was friendly he apparently isn't forced to do so).

Agreed on Scholes. I'm a great fan of the little man but his awful timing and decision making in tackling is a fatal flaw in his game.

[cartman]

For Milan, most of their Serie A matches played in front of 56,000.

In the CL:
Fenerbahce - 75,000
PSV Eindhoven - 69,000
Schalke 04 - 82,000
Bayern - 71,000
Lyon - 80,000
Barcelona - 85,000It looks to me like the CL creates more interest than Serie A.
I saw first hand, while living in Milan, this phenomenon. The same 50,000 or so Milan fans are there for both Serie A and CL matches. But since San Siro is one of the largest stadiums in Europe and seats over 80,000, it is usually the best chance for visiting fans to get to see their team in action. Whenever there was a CL match, there would always be tens of thousands of opponent's fans showing up for the matches.

[MIJB#19]

If you're going by attendance figures to determine the importance of events, then I guess Serie A matches aren't that important to Juve supporters either, since they don't come close to filling the Stadio delle Alpi. Their three highest attendances last year were 33772 (Inter), 39087 (Milan), and 56488 (Palermo, the last home match of the season). This in a stadium that holds over 67,000. Most of the time attendance was below 30,000.

Conversely, here are the CL attendance numbers:

Rapid Vienna - 49,000
Bayern - 19,000 (I can't explain that)
Club Brugge - 35,000
Werder Bremen - 43,000
Arsenal - 50,000


For Milan, most of their Serie A matches played in front of 56,000.

In the CL:

Fenerbahce - 75,000
PSV Eindhoven - 69,000
Schalke 04 - 82,000
Bayern - 71,000
Lyon - 80,000
Barcelona - 85,000


It looks to me like the CL creates more interest than Serie A.That's really freaky, my source showed totally different attendance figures.

[AlexB]

Seven minutes. Seven f*****g minutes :mad:

[AlexB]

Dola,

After weeks of anticipation, finishing last season as one of the form teams of league, we play in the season curtain raiser, shown live on Sky, like a pub team. 2-0 loss to Luton, one of the relegation favourites (although I do think this under-rates Luton to be fair).

Oh well, it can only get better.

[daedalus]

But when your defense consists of Bramble and Boumsong, I think its always the greatest need. :DBut at least they're not in danger of sending Pascal Cygan onto the pitch.

At left-back.

I'll be in the corner crying in fetal position, if anyone needs me.

[ISiddiqui]

And speaking of Bramble and Boumsong... there is a good chance that Craig Moore and Stephen Taylor may start ahead of both of them! Well, at least in place of Boumsong, who may be sold soon (yes there are teams on the Continent who have asked about him).

[FrogMan]

Dola,

After weeks of anticipation, finishing last season as one of the form teams of league, we play in the season curtain raiser, shown live on Sky, like a pub team. 2-0 loss to Luton, one of the relegation favourites (although I do think this under-rates Luton to be fair).

Oh well, it can only get better.

I follow Luton a bit and yeah, they're probably in for one tough season with the rebuilding they are going through. Kevin Nicholls and Steve Howard are gone and will be hard to replace...

FM
PS: I remembered reading about you being a Leicester fan yesterday and when I saw the topic notification with your "seven ****** minutes", I immediately knew it meant good news for my Hatters :)

[Desnudo]

But at least they're not in danger of sending Pascal Cygan onto the pitch.

At left-back.

I'll be in the corner crying in fetal position, if anyone needs me.

Flamini was fantastic there last season.

[AlexB]

I follow Luton a bit and yeah, they're probably in for one tough season with the rebuilding they are going through. Kevin Nicholls and Steve Howard are gone and will be hard to replace...

FM
PS: I remembered reading about you being a Leicester fan yesterday and when I saw the topic notification with your "seven ****** minutes", I immediately knew it meant good news for my Hatters :)

Did wonder if your FM dynasty had given you a RL sympathy for Luton, or whether Iain Hume playing for Leicester would have meant the Canadian element won over. Query answered I guess!

[FrogMan]

Did wonder if your FM dynasty had given you a RL sympathy for Luton, or whether Iain Hume playing for Leicester would have meant the Canadian element won over. Query answered I guess!

hehehe, nah, Hume is just a whiner unhappy that I kept him out of the national team for a friendly so I'm sticking with Luton ;)

I did start following Luton after picking them to play my first ever FM career. I eventually subscribed to their BBC news feed and I keep myself informed a bit... :)

FM

[SirFozzie]

My friend tells me that DirecTV is testing out Sky Sports One on channel 9995 and a couple other Sky channels as well. Would be interesting to see a wider variety of international sports if they pick it up full time. For those of you who have DirecTV, of course. I, sadly, do not.

The test is over, and they are not going to follow up on it.

[cthomer5000]

in case anyone is interested... the Chelsea starting lineup for the MLS All-Star game:

http://www.somethingwithanh.com/ihof/chelsea_mls.jpg

[SirFozzie]

Game's on now.. yeah I know, all star colors are supposed to be garish.. but wow.

[SirFozzie]

Wow.. MLS 1-0 late.

[SirFozzie]

dola: that's the way it ended. MLS! MLS! :D

(yeah, I know, friendly, yadda yadda.. but I gotta say, a good end to all the friendlies MLS teams have been playing

[TazFTW]

Didn't see it but what happened to Joe Cole? The matchtracker at MLSnet says Cole came on in 46 and off in 52.

[illinifan999]

He collided with someone and it looked like his knee bent a little.

[Katon]

Not meant to be a serious injury, from what I hear, but why take chances in a preseason match?

I was at the match - got a photograph of myself with the Premiership trophy, which was the most interesting part of the day. I'm not thrilled with our performance, but not particularly worried either. We looked like it was our first match of the preseason.

[cthomer5000]

Not meant to be a serious injury, from what I hear, but why take chances in a preseason match?

This appeared to be the case to me. I think he'd have kept playing otherwise, but no need to fool around in a friendly like this.

Nice showing by MLS overall... they didnt' really convert too many offensive opportunities into sold shots though.

[ISiddiqui]

YAY, MLS! That De Rossario guy... he's pretty good ;).

[Cringer]

YAY, MLS! That De Rossario guy... he's pretty good ;).

YES! I forgot all about this game. I have been witout TV for a while so it wouldn't have mattered much but still......

De Rossario is the man. Stood out both Houston games I have been to and quickly became my favorite player. Big congrats to him.

[Cringer]

On a sad note, I have remembered the the Barca-America (Mex)/Houston-LA double header coming up on Wednesday. Over 50,000 tickets have been sold and I don't have even one of them. Just can't afford it right now. Sucks big too because I have to be up near Houston from later today until Tuesday for something else that is much less entertaining.

[TazFTW]

Mourinho says that Cole could have damaged knee ligaments.

[Katon]

I hope not :(

[Critch]

Couple of good English Championship games on Setanta this morning, feels like the season is finally here now the games actually mean something.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I turned on the MLS - Chelski match just in time to catch the halftime "show." If I wasn't a fan of the game, I would have turned it off right then. Ugh.

Anyway, once the second half started I was able to swallow again without fear of vomiting. That is until Alexi Lalas entered the booth. I liked him when he was a player, but I can't stand him now. I really wish he would shut up. Since I was jamming pencils in my ears in an attempt to rupture my eardrums, I missed most of what he was saying, but I'm pretty sure I heard him going on about how just because Chelski spends a lot of money on someone doesn't mean the player is any good. Was that what he was going on about, or did I just completely mishear him?

It was a nice win for the MLS squad, but it was obvious that Chelski wasn't anywhere near peak performance. And I really wish the ESPN announcers would have stopped with all the "Chelsea is arguably the best team in the world" nonsense. They might have the highest payroll in the world (not sure if that's true), but there's a little team in Barcelona that I hear is pretty good, and I don't know if you guys have heard or not, but AC Milan is not bad, either. Oh, and Real Madrid, too.

I know, ESPN is just trying to make the MLS look good, especially since they just signed that new TV deal. Speaking of which, I read that they're going to show Thursday night matches, which is great. Is this going to be in addition to Saturday?

Also, with Toronto FC joining next year the MLS will have 13 teams. Are they going to keep the two conferences and just have one with seven teams, or is something else in the works?

[SirFozzie]

Just Thursdays, 26 games a year. They are probably going to go with unbalanced conferences..

BTW, a bit of bad news, Toronto will not be in MLS for the next FM :(

[cthomer5000]

I'm pretty sure I heard him going on about how just because Chelski spends a lot of money on someone doesn't mean the player is any good. Was that what he was going on about, or did I just completely mishear him?
I literally have no idea where he was going with the statement he made. It didn't make too much sense to me.


It was a nice win for the MLS squad, but it was obvious that Chelski wasn't anywhere near peak performance. And I really wish the ESPN announcers would have stopped with all the "Chelsea is arguably the best team in the world" nonsense. They might have the highest payroll in the world (not sure if that's true), but there's a little team in Barcelona that I hear is pretty good, and I don't know if you guys have heard or not, but AC Milan is not bad, either. Oh, and Real Madrid, too.
I don't think anyone is claiming this was an epic win for MLS. Not getting embarassed was the real goal. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying they are "arguably" the best. Yes, you're listing other teams that all could also be considered "arguably" the best. What are the announcers supposed to do? Not hype the matchup?


I read that they're going to show Thursday night matches, which is great. Is this going to be in addition to Saturday? Yes, in addition to Saturday.


Also, with Toronto FC joining next year the MLS will have 13 teams. Are they going to keep the two conferences and just have one with seven teams, or is something else in the works?
The commish said 14 teams by 2008 at halftime, so I expect there will just be one larger conference next year before being evened out in 2008. I'd love to see them move to just one table eventually, but i'm not sure it'll ever happen in the US.

[cthomer5000]

Just Thursdays, 26 games a year. They are probably going to go with unbalanced conferences..

This is different than what I'd originally heard, but right you are:

ESPN2 will broadcast 26 regular-season games on Thursday nights as well as three playoff games a year. The deal also allows televised coverage of the first round of the MLS SuperDraft.

Also, ABC will broadcast the league's season opener, the All-Star game and the MLS Cup.

[ISiddiqui]

And I really wish the ESPN announcers would have stopped with all the "Chelsea is arguably the best team in the world" nonsense. They might have the highest payroll in the world (not sure if that's true), but there's a little team in Barcelona that I hear is pretty good, and I don't know if you guys have heard or not, but AC Milan is not bad, either. Oh, and Real Madrid, too.

But, as cthomer said, they are 'arguably' the best. Arguably meaning that they are in the argument. Sure Chelsea didn't go as far as they'd hoped in the CL last year, but in the meantime added Ballack and Shevchenko, who I have heard are pretty decent ;). Nothing wrong with saying Chelsea is arguably the best team in the world.

[MIJB#19]

Nothing wrong with saying Chelsea is arguably the best team in the world.Except that they can only claim to be the best of about 2/3rd of a small island in the Atlantic Ocean. ;)

[ISiddiqui]

Though teams on that small island won the Champions League and came in 2nd in the last two years ;).

[cthomer5000]

Do people have a hard time grasping the "arguably" part of the phrase "arguably the best?"

[MIJB#19]

Chelsea is loaded with 'best players'. In position by postion talent, they could have the roster in the world. They even dominated the English Premier League for two years. But to date they haven't proven to be able to make a serious run in the Champions' League. Until that happens, I personally have a hard time to concider Chelsea to be in the discussion for best team of Europe, let alone the world.

It's like Peyton Manning's Indianapolis Colts, they win their division year after year, but have zero conference titles to prove they're the best.

[AlexB]

MIJB - Champions League does not always say who the best team in Europe is - this year to be fair it probably did with Barca winning it, but are you telling me that on your logic you consider Porto and Liverpool to be better teams than Chelsea?

And if your logic were sounder than it actually is, don't forget who actually knocked Chelsea out of the CL both of the last two years: Barca.

Personally I would say you have to say best team in Europe: Barca - won their domestic league in addition to the CL, after that I think you have to say Chelsea are probably #2.

[AlexB]

Dola,

And back to the original point, I don't think you can call someone disingenious for saying the #2 is 'arguably the best'...

[ISiddiqui]

I think it's an incredibly strange position to take to say that Chelsea isn't in the argument for best team in Europe.

[ice4277]

I think it's an incredibly strange position to take to say that Chelsea isn't in the argument for best team in Europe.

Agreed. As mentioned earlier, the CL is basically a one-off tournament. For that matter, I think there can be a difference between being the best team and being the team that wins it all. But regardless of the CL, Chelsea have absolutely dominated the Premiership the past two seasons. Any team that can dominate the way they have in what is, at worst, the third-best league in the world, has to be mentioned right up at the top.

[Critch]

And if your logic were sounder than it actually is, don't forget who actually knocked Chelsea out of the CL both of the last two years: Barca.

Actually Chelsea knocked Barcelona out of the CL the year before last. Chelsea were knocked out by Liverpool in the semi-final.

So that's even more on an argument for Chelsea being arguably the best.

[Critch]

But to date they haven't proven to be able to make a serious run in the Champions' League.

So you don't count being knocked out in the semi by the eventual winner and then being knocked out in the quarterfinal by the eventual winner as a serious run?

[AlexB]

Actually Chelsea knocked Barcelona out of the CL the year before last. Chelsea were knocked out by Liverpool in the semi-final.

So that's even more on an argument for Chelsea being arguably the best.

Good point, well made. It's late, I've had a couple of beers, I shouldn't be bandying around things as facts with sober people liable to check them out ;)

[Katon]

Chelsea is loaded with 'best players'. In position by postion talent, they could have the roster in the world. They even dominated the English Premier League for two years. But to date they haven't proven to be able to make a serious run in the Champions' League. Until that happens, I personally have a hard time to concider Chelsea to be in the discussion for best team of Europe, let alone the world.

It's like Peyton Manning's Indianapolis Colts, they win their division year after year, but have zero conference titles to prove they're the best.

Reaching the semis (two years in a row, to boot) doesn't qualify as a serious run?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Do people have a hard time grasping the "arguably" part of the phrase "arguably the best?"

I guess the problem I have with this is that when I hear someone say something like this, they are just throwing the arguably in to cover themselves. They obviously believe Chelsea is the best in the world or else they would have said "Chelsea is one of the best clubs in the world."

For what it's worth, I don't see Chelsea in the running for best in the world. Third or fourth, but not best. I would take Barcelona, Milan, or even Real Madrid (depending on how they were playing at the time) any time over Chelsea. And I really hate Milan and Real.

Chelsea has a lot of talent and they have more depth than anyone else, but does that make them the best in the world? They're the best in the Premiership, but they need to start winning other competitions. Aside from the Carling Cup two years ago, they haven't done as well as "the best club in the world" should do. Win the FA Cup and the Champions League, or at least get to some finals, and then they can carry the title of best in the world.

[illinifan999]

Are people not understanding ARGUABLY the best? No one is saying they are the best team in the world, Chelsea is ARGUABLY one of the best in the world. Really there is no argument.

[ISiddiqui]

Are people not understanding ARGUABLY the best?

Apparently so.

[cthomer5000]

*bangs head against wall*

[VPI97]

There's some really good action in this Barcelona - Chivas match...anyone else watching?

[law90026]

Latest Arsenal rumours:
Gallas still headed there possibly --> but comments suggest he's headed to Real insteard
16 million pound bid for Riberry coming up --> don't like it coz I didn't like Riberry in the World Cup
Possible bid for Toni --> likely to be pure speculation in my opinion

[ISiddiqui]

And nice atmosphere in LA as well :D. Though I don't think I'll be able to stay up to watch all of it :(.

[cthomer5000]

There's some really good action in this Barcelona - Chivas match...anyone else watching?

Yeah. My favorite action was the sprinklers going off. :D

[cartman]

Latest Arsenal rumours:
Possible bid for Toni --> likely to be pure speculation in my opinion

Yeah, I don't see this happening either. Toni's grasp of English is extremely limited, so that's a pretty big barrier. Most likely he's going to end up at Inter.

[Katon]

I guess the problem I have with this is that when I hear someone say something like this, they are just throwing the arguably in to cover themselves. They obviously believe Chelsea is the best in the world or else they would have said "Chelsea is one of the best clubs in the world."

For what it's worth, I don't see Chelsea in the running for best in the world. Third or fourth, but not best. I would take Barcelona, Milan, or even Real Madrid (depending on how they were playing at the time) any time over Chelsea. And I really hate Milan and Real.

Chelsea has a lot of talent and they have more depth than anyone else, but does that make them the best in the world? They're the best in the Premiership, but they need to start winning other competitions. Aside from the Carling Cup two years ago, they haven't done as well as "the best club in the world" should do. Win the FA Cup and the Champions League, or at least get to some finals, and then they can carry the title of best in the world.

But the thing is, the only team that's been winning a serious domestic league and has done as well as us in the CL over the last 2-3 years is Barcelona. Real haven't been nearly as impressive in league football and haven't done quite as well in the CL either; it's all very well saying "on their day", but they don't have their day often enough for that to work (and hey, if we're just picking the teams in top form then Didier Drogba is suddenly a world-class player). Milan are a terrific team, but as you pointed out earlier they're a bit CL-heavy. They haven't won Serie A for a couple of years (granting that that might be partly because of poor refereeing), Nesta's the only useful defender they have under 35, and if you're going to call them one of the top two teams in the world based on the CL then they really ought to have won it in the time period under discussion.

In 04-05, Chelsea were the best club team in the world. We had probably the best defence of any English club team ever, shattered the Premiership record points tally, and beat our only real competitors for the title head-to-head in the CL. Then last year Barcelona figured out how to defend a lead in the CL and beat us, we went off the boil after New Year's when the league was all but ours, and Barca were clearly #1. Even then, though, it's not clear who has a better argument to be second: Real had the same disappointing CL performance against lesser opposition butwithout the league win, Juve scraped through to the CL quarters but as much through comedy goalkeeping as through stunning football, and while Milan probably have the best case they didn't win the league either. And then we signed Ballack and Shevchenko.

I think Barca still have to be #1, especially given the Zambrotta signing, but we're plainly in the top two, and if you attach enough weight to (the season before last/Ballack/Sheva/crap refereeing at Stamford Bridge in the CL tie) then there's a case for putting us first.

[MIJB#19]

Doesn't the word 'arguable' give us the room to argue about a it?

To some people having the best collection of players and winning the national league doesn't equal being the best team of the continent. I think my Indianapolis Colts comparison is the best example I could think of.

If you wish to use the last 3 years of European performance or continueing national league dominanceas the argument, then you have to throw PSV (Eindhoven) into the mix, which I would find absurd, rate Lyon far above Chelsea, throw Bayern Munchen in there and mention Juventu$ (okay, maybe not). You can't overlook FC Porto's UEFA Cup and CL victories in back to back seasons. AC Milan reached the final twice in the past four seasons, the semi's three times. Liverpool actually won the CL in that period. And I haven't even mentioned last season's CL finalistst Barcelona and Arsenal yet.

I can see where people would throw Chelsea in the mix, I would mention them in a top3 of best teams right now, but I also think there's no argument to put them on #1, not yet, outside of the list of names they have on their team. They're the top favorites to unseat Barcelona as European' champs and I wouldn't be surprised if they manage it and wouldn't mind admitting they are the best once they manage that.

Edit: I fixed some typos.

[law90026]

So Ashley Cole looks unlikely to travel for the Champs League qualifier, adding fuel to the speculation that he's on his way to Chelsea for 25 million pounds.

I'll be glad when he leaves for such an exorbitant amount to be honest... and I'm disappointed in him. With Flamini and Clichy available to play left-back, I'm all for selling him before he becomes a distraction.

[MIJB#19]

So you don't count being knocked out in the semi by the eventual winner and then being knocked out in the quarterfinal by the eventual winner as a serious run?You're right, that didn't make sense at all on my end. Reaching the semifinals in back to back seasons isn't easy to accomplish. What I really ment to say that they didn't reach the final, but I have no defense here, my words came out plain stupid.

I'm just having serious problems with the use of 'arguably the best', when I think that this team is still a step away from being in the argument.

[ice4277]

I'm just having serious problems with the use of 'arguably the best', when I think that this team is still a step away from being in the argument.

Who would be on your shortlist then? Barca? Milan? Other than those two, who else could reasonably get consideration before Chelsea?

[Critch]

Doesnt the fact that we're arguing about whether Chelsea are best in the world make them arguably the best in the world?

I'd personally put them 2nd behind Barcelona. I'd have probably put Juventus ahead of them as well, but I hear they may have had a bad summer :)

Milan are challengers too, Bayern have probably lost too much over the summer and rely too much on young players to fill the gaps (Werder for the BL this year), Real Madrid are too disjointed though may be improving. Lyon are good but a step below.

Outside Europe, Boca are winning the Argentinian league but will lose all their players to Italy or Spain before they have a real claim, Corinthians have a good selection of players but are bottom of the Brazilian league, so obviously something is going wrong.

Outside Europe Sao Paulo have the best claim, they won the Copa Libertadores last season, they're in the final again this year, and they're currently top of the Brazilian League, though it is early.

[MIJB#19]

Who would be on your shortlist then? Barca? Milan? Other than those two, who else could reasonably get consideration before Chelsea?In Europe only Barcelona, I couldn't come up with a team outside Europe in a split second. If I had to do a top5, it'd be, in no particular order Barcelona, Lyon, Chelsea, AC Milan and Arsenal.

[MIJB#19]

Doesnt the fact that we're arguing about whether Chelsea are best in the world make them arguably the best in the world?Maybe, but some people clearly think 'arguably the best' goes along without arguing about it. They've done a lot the past three seasons to be concidered one of Europe's best teams, but as I said a couple of times (and maybe shouldn't anymore, my point should be clear now), to make that last step forward (to get into the Champions' League final or at least be able to knock Barcelona out), to be legimate for a discussion about being #1.

[Critch]

Maybe, but some people clearly think 'arguably the best' goes along without arguing about it. They've done a lot the past three seasons to be concidered one of Europe's best teams, but as I said a couple of times (and maybe shouldn't anymore, my point should be clear now), to make that last step forward (to get into the Champions' League final or at least be able to knock Barcelona out), to be legimate for a discussion about being #1.

They knocked Barcelona out of the Champions League the year before last, doesn't that count?

p.s. I'm arguing for argument's sake. I agree that Barcelona should be ranked best in the world right now.

[MIJB#19]

They knocked Barcelona out of the Champions League the year before last, doesn't that count?

p.s. I'm arguing for argument's sake. I agree that Barcelona should be ranked best in the world right now.I think it's an endless discussion this way. Chelsea didn't even survive the round of 16 last season. Sure, they were drawn against Barcelona, but only because they were scoreless in half their group phase matches to put them in second place.

[Desnudo]

Oops...

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=408439&CPID=21&clid=134&lid=2&title=Reggina+charged+in+new+scandal#

Reggina charged in new scandal
By Mark Buckingham - Created on 7 Aug 2006
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Reggina
Reggina must appear before a sports tribunal after being charged amidst allegations of match-fixing.

Following on from the recent scandal which has rocked Italian football, Reggina have been ordered to answer charges of sporting fraud.

The charge relates to six games the Serie A side were involved in over the past two seasons, with Reggina's president Lillo Foti (pictured) having had his telephone tapped.

Foti, along with three referees, two assistant referees and another official, has been charged by the Italian Football Federation's (FIGC) prosecutor Stefano Palazzi.

The matches in question are home fixtures against Brescia, Cagliari and Palermo, and away games versus Udinese, Sampdoria and Palermo.

Only last month, Foti was questioned in connection with the allegations and protested his innocence, having been accused of trying to rig the outcome of those six games.

Reggina must now wait to learn if they will be on the end of the same guilty verdicts which were recorded against Juventus, Milan, Fiorentina and Lazio.

Juventus were stripped of the Serie A title won for the past two seasons, demoted to Serie B and docked points for their role in the scandal.

Fiorentina and Lazio were originally relegated, only to be reinstated to the top flight upon appeal, while Milan had points deducted.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Are people not understanding ARGUABLY the best? No one is saying they are the best team in the world, Chelsea is ARGUABLY one of the best in the world. Really there is no argument.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but the quote in question was saying Chelsea was the best. I wouldn't have a problem if they said that Chelsea was arguably one of the best, because that's a valid statement.

Doesnt the fact that we're arguing about whether Chelsea are best in the world make them arguably the best in the world?

If I say that the MLS is arguably the best league in the world and we argue about it, does that make my statement true?

In 04-05, Chelsea were the best club team in the world. We had probably the best defence of any English club team ever, shattered the Premiership record points tally, and beat our only real competitors for the title head-to-head in the CL.

If Chelsea were the best club in the world in 04-05, why didn't they win the CL? Or the FA Cup? So they got to the semis in the CL, and they made it to the fifth round of the FA Cup. They still lost, and let's face it, greatness is determined by how much silverware you have in your trophy case at the end of the day. Just ask the Atlanta Braves about that.

I would pick Chelsea as second best in 04-05 with Milan the best. They made it to the CL final that year (and really should have won) and came in second to Juve in Serie A. If there hadn't been any kind of ref scandal, who's to say that Milan wouldn't have won the Serie A that year?

As for Ballack and Shevchenko, I'm holding judgement until I see how they perform with everyone else at Chelsea. Just because you sign a lot of big names, it doesn't always work out for you. Just ask Real Madrid.

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh, and down in the depths of club soccer....yours truly had a great game in the net. Several acrobatic saves, stopped a penalty and a free kick just outside the box, and kept us in the game as much as possible, despite the fact we were clearly outmatched and playing shit defense. Lost 3-1, but dammit, I played a great game.

Fear the mighty Keeper.

[AlexB]

If Chelsea were the best club in the world in 04-05, why didn't they win the CL? Or the FA Cup? So they got to the semis in the CL, and they made it to the fifth round of the FA Cup. They still lost, and let's face it, greatness is determined by how much silverware you have in your trophy case at the end of the day. Just ask the Atlanta Braves about that.

Because in a cup competition, one below par performance can see you out. The best guide to a team's true ability is league form: over 34-38 games (depending on league size) the best side over a year will win. Winning a cup is an indication that you are a good team, but it does not make you the best.

I would include the CL in the 'makes you good but not the best' category for the exact same reasons: any side can beat another on the day, but in a long league season, over the long term, blips and anomalies will be just that, and the cream will rise, instead of potentially being knocked out from one bad game. Continued cup success (as opposed to one season's good form) would however show form in the long term

That is why when arguing best team in Europe, I, and I think most football fans, would argue look at domestic league domination (in a country where the league is recognised as strong: i.e. Italy, Spain, England, Germany in particular) as the first rule, and then cup record as an enhancement to that.

Given what has happened in Italy this summer, Juve have to be discounted, which leaves Barca, Chelsea and Bayern as the main teams to look at, plus (on the basis of league form and consistent European performance) Milan, Lyon and Porto to be considered as well. Of these I think again most would say Barca are #1 and Chelsea #2 over the past two years in particular.

Just because a team is #1 or #2 doesn;t mean they win every game, you have to look beyond 'Did they or didn't they win a knockout tournament'.

Edit: mixed tenses. Only noticed when cthomer quoted me. I'm tired.

[cthomer5000]

Just because a team is #1 or #2 doesn;t mean they win every game, you have to look beyond 'Did they or don't they win a knockout tournament'.

Exactly. To me I put more weight into the two years of domincance in the Premiership versus very good (but not good enough) performances in a tournament.

[Mac Howard]

As a Man Utd fan it hurts me to say it but the title of "best team in the world" does come down to Barca or Chelsea, imo :( I can see justified arguments for either one depending on your choice of criteria.

[Critch]

If I say that the MLS is arguably the best league in the world and we argue about it, does that make my statement true?

Only if there was decent, rational reasons to support the statement. I'd say both people arguing for and against Chelsea have made decent, rational arguments (and a few others as well).

[TazFTW]

Anyone play EPL Fantasy football? Any recommendations?

Soccernet has one http://games.espn.go.com/epl/frontpage

As does Yahoo http://uk.premiership.fantasysports.yahoo.com/

[Critch]

The Guardian is reporting that Franck Ribery will sign for Arsenal this week. With Rosicky coming in already and maybe Ribery on the wing, they'll be a little harder for me to dislike this season, should be worth watching.

If you've got Setanta I mean, because apparently very few of their games are on FSC.

[atatange1]

If you've got Setanta I mean, because apparently very few of their games are on FSC.

I think they will have the same amount of games as in the past. Setanta just snapped up the PPV games, I think that is what happened.

[SirFozzie]

Soccernet has one http://games.espn.go.com/epl/frontpage

As does Yahoo http://uk.premiership.fantasysports.yahoo.com/


The one I use is through the Premier League website

http://fantasy.premierleague.com/

[Critch]

I think they will have the same amount of games as in the past. Setanta just snapped up the PPV games, I think that is what happened.

Yeah, that's pretty much right. There was a post on another board though complaining that Arsenal games appear to be being picked up by Setanta. Apparently FSC only has one of their early games.

[Critch]

dola - Setanta is looking a lot more value for money this year. More English Championship, they've added EPL and a couple of French League 1 games plus a number of international friendlies. Their email also mentions Dutch soccer no ESPN Deportes has dumped it, not sure when it will turn up or where they'll squeeze it in.

Far better than 12 months ago.

[SirFozzie]

yeah, between soccer and Rugby, Setanta is a great value.

[Critch]

yeah, between soccer and Rugby, Setanta is a great value.

Don't forget the Aussie Rules.

[SirFozzie]

Don't forget the Aussie Rules.

Oh yeah ;)

I actually tivo it because it's on so late (live Australia time means middle of the Night US TIME :D

[Critch]

Oh yeah ;)

I actually tivo it because it's on so late (live Australia time means middle of the Night US TIME :D

People will be starting to suspect we work for Setanta.

Timezones are a strange thing, at 7am last week there was a live evening rugby game from Australia on Setanta. And that's not even the weird bit. The weird bit is it was winter!!

(p.s. Setanta also covers the classic UK horseraces such as The Derby, The Grand National, Glorious Goodwood).

[SirFozzie]

BTW, this is what makes rivalries more fun in Europe.. wot a prank :D

http://tinypic.com/23wqkoi.jpg

[bulletsponge]

lol thats great! whats a bottle of Lucozade?

[ice4277]

lol thats great! whats a bottle of Lucozade?

A Gatorade-type drink.

[daedalus]

Flamini was fantastic there last season.And he only managed to get a chance because the Cybot hurt his self and Sol went on a walkabout. I was actually not commenting on Flamini's performance as much as Mr Wenger's (seemingly) blind faith in Mr Cybot.

Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely thrilled with what Flamini did last year. On the other hand, we're a different team with him in the lineup. He became a solid defensive fullback but provided little to no attack on that flank (which is a significant part of our attack). Our left-winger is also responsible for much more defensive duties with him in the lineup.

As an aside, many of the folks who have watch the preseason friendlies have not been terribly impressed with him this year. Hopefully, Hoyte will emerge as a left-back alternative for *when* Clichy gets himself hurted.

[daedalus]

Latest Arsenal rumours:Gallas still headed there possibly --> but comments suggest he's headed to Real insteardI can't see this happening. I just can't see Mourinho being willing to improve Arsenal. The prevailing sentiment on BS seems to be that Arsenal wouldn't want to help Chelsea either. On the other hand, I feel like Chelsea can survive without Gallas' contribution or needing to get something in return for him (assuming he acts the ass like Cole and doesn't "show up" -- which I don't expect) while I don't think Arsenal has such luxury. Unfortunately.16 million pound bid for Riberry coming up --> don't like it coz I didn't like Riberry in the World CupI would like it purely on a talent-basis. I would not based purely on our need for another defensive midfielder (or some would say *a* quality defensive midfielder) and our relatively solid depth on the outside.

[Critch]

Despite the aforementioned greatness of Setanta, it sucks that they (along with FSC and GolTV) have chosen to ignore the Champions League qualifiers tonight and tomorrow night.

The time for pre-season friendlies has past, lets see some real meaningful games.

[Desnudo]

Wednesday's Rumors Brought to you by Gallas + Cash for Cole Making too Much Sense to Ever Happen

http://football.guardian.co.uk/rumourmill

Wednesday's rumours

Today's chit-chat is a bit on the stroppy side

Gemma Clarke
Wednesday August 9, 2006
Guardian Unlimited


"Leave me alone, I'm a private person." Photograph: AP.

There are only 10 days left until the Premiership's finest pack up their dreams in their Louis Vuitton washbags and head back into the fray, hoping to clinch that all-important win bonus. But surprise, surprise, not everyone is filled with glee at the prospect. Fed up with slogging his guts out for three hours a day in the Chelsea sweatshop, disgruntled defender William Gallas is threatening to set up a one-man picket line outside Stamford Bridge and go on strike.

Article continues

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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But he's not the only defensive diva practising his placard-holding stomp: publicity-shy wallflower Ashley Cole's future hangs in the balance too. Arsenal say Chelsea have until the end of the week to up their bid, Chelsea say Arsenal have until the end of the week to accept what's already on offer. The Mill says this is all getting a bit farcical now.
There's always the chance that the two striking defenders could find a home in 'Arry Redknapp's back line, which is rapidly turning into an outpost for the emotionally troubled. David James is now looking to bring his particular brand of peculiarity to Fratton Park. Another of the waifs and strays on 'Arry's wish list, Celtic strop-merchant Stilian Petrov, has been cosying up to former boss Martin O'Neill in the hope of skulking over to Aston Villa.

Meanwhile, Internazionale's Obafemi Martins failed to score against Watford in last night's friendly, attracting the amorous gaze of Glenn Roeder, who knows he'll fit right in at St James' Park with that kind of zing. But Glenn also has his eye on Holland striker Dirk Kuyt, who is still floating on the horizon.

After finding out the hard way that Big Men are in short supply, Tottenham are remaining tight-lipped over reports that they are trying to convince Roma to swathe Mido in bubble-wrap and ship him back to north London. Argentine World Cup star Roberto Ayala may also be packing his bags and heading for Spurs Lodge, while Brighton are hoping to sign Ipswich striker Sam Parkin. "It was nice to be included in the same sentence as such a big name," Parkin didn't say.

[MIJB#19]

Meanwhile, Internazionale's Obafemi Martins failed to score against Watford in last night's friendly, attracting the amorous gaze of Glenn Roeder, who knows he'll fit right in at St James' Park with that kind of zing. But Glenn also has his eye on Holland striker Dirk Kuyt, who is still floating on the horizon.St James' Park is Newcastle, right?
Not gonna happen, Kuijt explicitely made it clear that he's only leaving Feyenoord for a team playing in the Champions' League.

[law90026]

I just find the whole Arsenal transfer situation a tad ludicrous. It just seems like Arsenal players find themselves in some sort of transfer wranggle every summer. There was the Viera issue for years before he left to Juve (a move I still don't understand), Henry and the rumours to Barca, and this year is Ashley Cole, Reyes and (before the WC ended) Cesc.

I'm not sure why it happens this way every year :(

Anyways, the Cole deal appears to be off but I suspect something might happen over the next few days because Cole is clearly unhappy and pushing for the move in my opinion. Reyes appears to be out for sure since negotiations are taking place today. And now Henry is unhappy that there have been so many departures with few replacements brought in ... completely understandable.

[TazFTW]

Inter add Ibrahimovic for a little under $32 million.

[daedalus]

I just find the whole Arsenal transfer situation a tad ludicrous. It just seems like Arsenal players find themselves in some sort of transfer wranggle every summer. There was the Viera issue for years before he left to Juve (a move I still don't understand), Henry and the rumours to Barca, and this year is Ashley Cole, Reyes and (before the WC ended) Cesc.

I'm not sure why it happens this way every year :(Because 1) Le Boss comes up with great players that other teams want and 2) as much as it pains me to admit, we are not a "big" club (which I consider Mancheter United, Liverpool and, now, Chelsea to be, amongst English clubs). Clubs think that, with enough money on the table, we HAVE to sell. I disagree with that sentiment since I think the board is actually intelligent enough to never f' with Mr Wenger - although I think Mr Wenger is considerate enough to the board's financial restriction that he would consider it himself. Also, we have less of a "name" attachment than clubs like Real Madrid or Manchester United and, of course, to greedy scumbags, cannot -- or would not -- offer the level of salaries that Chelsea can.

One thing of note, however, in my opinion. With the exception of the end of last season, Henry's stance has always been that he's a Gunners through and through and, no matter what, he is staying. I feel better to see Cesc taking the same stance consistently. By contrast, Vieira consistently flirted with Real.Anyways, the Cole deal appears to be off but I suspect something might happen over the next few days because Cole is clearly unhappy and pushing for the move in my opinion. Reyes appears to be out for sure since negotiations are taking place today. And now Henry is unhappy that there have been so many departures with few replacements brought in ... completely understandable.While I can understand Henry's disappointment at the departures and potential departures and the lack of additions, I disagree with it. Sentiment aside, I think Dennis and Pires became 30 minute change of pace guys by the end of last season. I don't think either would have been happy with that role and there was no way to justify Pires' salary in that role. I don't think Campbell really had his heart in it with us anymore and, again, no way to justify his level of salary in the role he would have been best in with us (3rd centreback) nor would I really want him taking up valuable development time from Djourou with half-hearted efforts. Cole wants out and has wanted for the last year. Perhaps the Boss waited too long to get rid of Pennant and his selfish attitude got to Cole. Perhaps he really is a douche and his nature is merely surfacing. Whatever it is, meeting up with a rival the day before a huge match with another rival is unforgivable [and, amazingly, quite a number of Arse fans HAD forgiven him for it]. Refusing to accept the wrongness of it and attempting to blame the club for it is ridiculously beyond the pale. Reyes, talented as he is, never really seemed settled at Arsenal. I don't think enough Arsenal fans ever really appreciated him enough for, what I think, he does. I think they wanted goals in the manner that Pires provided but he is not the same type of player [the only thing they had much in common was their tendency and willingness to plop on the ground]. He provided a number of really nice passes to release Henry on his runs, he tracked back on defense much more than Pires did. Also, based on comments from Sevilla fans, I don't think he was employed in his best position at Arsenal -- as the withdrawn striker. But what he wants is to return to Spain and Real Madrid is his best chance to do so. I can't consider it a bad thing for him to leave.

Of all the people who have left or will be leaving, the only one I am troubled by is Reyes. And only because it leaves us rather thin on the left wing and because I think he will soon reach his potential. Mind you, if his departures is matched by the arrival of Ribery than I would be far less concern. And if the Boss could find it in his heart to rescue Roberto Ayala from his torture [something I seriously doubt would happen], I would be positively giddy.

[law90026]

Because 1) Le Boss comes up with great players that other teams want and 2) as much as it pains me to admit, we are not a "big" club (which I consider Mancheter United, Liverpool and, now, Chelsea to be, amongst English clubs). Clubs think that, with enough money on the table, we HAVE to sell. I disagree with that sentiment since I think the board is actually intelligent enough to never f' with Mr Wenger - although I think Mr Wenger is considerate enough to the board's financial restriction that he would consider it himself. Also, we have less of a "name" attachment than clubs like Real Madrid or Manchester United and, of course, to greedy scumbags, cannot -- or would not -- offer the level of salaries that Chelsea can.

Yeah this I understand on a rational level. Arsenal has really only become "continental" or "global" in recent years, mainly because of Wenger. However, what makes me sad is the fact that some of the players we're talking about were either homegrown and/or given the opportunity to shine in Arsenal. And it's not like they weren't paid well either. That's what's truly disappointing.

Viera: He was an AC Milan reserve and groomed to the star he eventually became.
Cole: Arsenal boy.
Henry: Say what you will, but it seemed touch and go last season whether he would stay, which is a tad worrisome. I'm also beginning to wonder whether he chokes on the big occasion (separate issue).
Cesc: Barca reserve.

I guess I wonder whether Arsenal will always have to face such issues or whether it can eventually become less of one ... time will tell I guess. It's just disappointing.

Cole wants out and has wanted for the last year. Perhaps the Boss waited too long to get rid of Pennant and his selfish attitude got to Cole. Perhaps he really is a douche and his nature is merely surfacing. Whatever it is, meeting up with a rival the day before a huge match with another rival is unforgivable [and, amazingly, quite a number of Arse fans HAD forgiven him for it]. Refusing to accept the wrongness of it and attempting to blame the club for it is ridiculously beyond the pale.

Agreed, complete douche. I'm hoping the transfer takes place at some point in time for a figure between the 16 mil to 25 mil figure bandied about, simply because I don't think Cole would be in the right frame of mind. However, I'm also worried about the precedent it sets.

Reyes, talented as he is, never really seemed settled at Arsenal. I don't think enough Arsenal fans ever really appreciated him enough for, what I think, he does. I think they wanted goals in the manner that Pires provided but he is not the same type of player [the only thing they had much in common was their tendency and willingness to plop on the ground]. He provided a number of really nice passes to release Henry on his runs, he tracked back on defense much more than Pires did. Also, based on comments from Sevilla fans, I don't think he was employed in his best position at Arsenal -- as the withdrawn striker. But what he wants is to return to Spain and Real Madrid is his best chance to do so. I can't consider it a bad thing for him to leave.

The problem isn't just Reyes. So far, Arsenal hasn't found the right complement to Henry, mainly because Wenger seems to be playing like players in the 2 forward spots. Reyes plays like a winger and Henry drifts out to the wing as well. That's a problem that has to be addressed.

I'm waiting for that typical goalscorer/poacher type to be acquired to be honest, or one of those strong forwards that can hold the ball up. Trezeguet comes to mind to fit the first and someone like Jan Koller (though he's too old now) would fit the second. I actually think Klose would be great but that's too farfetched I think.

And Reyes, for all his ability, never really got it going. He just doesn't seem to be suited for the English game. I can't say I'm overly disappointed he's leaving, it's just the manner of leaving that leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Quite frankly, I think there are enough options upfront (Henry/RVP/Adebayor/Lupoli?). The midfield looks decent .. it's the Defence I'm worried about. After Toure and Senderos, there isn't much back-up at all. And say what you will, Clichy hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy and Flamini isn't a natural left-back. Wenger is putting a lot of faith in his youngsters .. though I guess it worked for Man U at the time (Beckham, Scholes, et al).

[Crapshoot]

John Terry named as England captain. If I were an England fan, I'd be irritated - the best, most inspirational player in the country is cast aside for a good (but not great) central defender as captain ? Who's more capable of taking the game by the proverbial "Scruff of the neck" - Terry or Gerrard (see Istanbul 2005, Cardiff 2006) ? As a Liverpool fan, I'm not the disappointed though - it would be more pressure on the guy.

[law90026]

John Terry named as England captain. If I were an England fan, I'd be irritated - the best, most inspirational player in the country is cast aside for a good (but not great) central defender as captain ? Who's more capable of taking the game by the proverbial "Scruff of the neck" - Terry or Gerrard (see Istanbul 2005, Cardiff 2006) ? As a Liverpool fan, I'm not the disappointed though - it would be more pressure on the guy.

Why irritated? Loathe as I am to say this, Terry is a really good captain. He's a leader, he's inspirational and he's proven himself at club level. As for not being great, I would beg to differ. He's one of the best in the world in my opinion.

Besides, even if the captain's armband is given to Terry, it doesn't mean Gerrard can't lead ..

[Crapshoot]

Why irritated? Loathe as I am to say this, Terry is a really good captain. He's a leader, he's inspirational and he's proven himself at club level. As for not being great, I would beg to differ. He's one of the best in the world in my opinion.

Besides, even if the captain's armband is given to Terry, it doesn't mean Gerrard can't lead ..

IMO (and this is certainly open to debate), your captain has to be good enough to take control of the game, run the game if its needed - he doesn't have to be your best player, but he should have the ability to step his game up. I think Terry is a good player - I just don't see how he's a better choice than Gerrard.

[law90026]

IMO (and this is certainly open to debate), your captain has to be good enough to take control of the game, run the game if its needed - he doesn't have to be your best player, but he should have the ability to step his game up. I think Terry is a good player - I just don't see how he's a better choice than Gerrard.

Fair enough, I guess that's where a difference of opinion in Terry's ability lies :) Peter Beardsley's article in the Guardian had Gerrard ahead of Terry .. but just slightly.

[Cringer]

Barcelona get 3 goals between the 85th and 90th minute last night to get the draw with Club America. WOuld have been nice to be there but I just couldn't afford it right now. And I would have been pissed anyways because the Dynamo lost to the Galaxy 1-0 right before that....oh well.

http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20060810&content_id=68697&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

[PilotMan]

Peter Novak gets his name pumped up for Nats coach this week after his teams performance against Chelsea and DC's performance against Real Madrid last night. I know that Klinsmen is still being talked about, but Novak seems to be adding to his resume quickly.

I still see him as another incarnation of Arena. I think that he would have his moments, but generallywouldn't be the answer that the US is looking for.

[Desnudo]

IMO (and this is certainly open to debate), your captain has to be good enough to take control of the game, run the game if its needed - he doesn't have to be your best player, but he should have the ability to step his game up. I think Terry is a good player - I just don't see how he's a better choice than Gerrard.

I think the most important part of a captain's role is that of tactical organizer. Terry can obviously do that well and is better equiped to do it from the backline.

[Crapshoot]

I think the most important part of a captain's role is that of tactical organizer. Terry can obviously do that well and is better equiped to do it from the backline.

Fair enough - I guess I see that being the manager's job - a defender can still take charge for set pieces and what not.

Hell, would you have picked Terry over Gerrard ?

[Desnudo]

Fair enough - I guess I see that being the manager's job - a defender can still take charge for set pieces and what not.

Hell, would you have picked Terry over Gerrard ?

Yes. A captain's primary role is the you go there, cover that guy, you're supposed to be over there type stuff, as well as keeping the team on an even keel. That's most easily done from the CB position since they can see the whole field looking forward. It's why you don't see many forwards as captains.

The ability of the manager to get tactical corrections done is limited to the two or three players that can hear his shouts, so you need someone on the field to do it.

As for the inspirational stuff, I think the important traits for a captain are consistency and even tempered level-headedness. Gerrard doesn't need to be captain to inspire people with his clutch play.

[saldana]

apparently replacing him as captain was only the beginning...


Beckham dropped from England squad
Posted: 2 hours ago



LONDON (AP) - England may never again rely on David Beckham's bending free kicks.


Coach Steve McClaren on Friday left him off the squad that will face European champion Greece on Wednesday in an exhibition game.

The coach has not completely shut the door on one of soccer's most glamorous and popular players, but Mclaren is trying to build a national team without the 31-year-old Real Madrid midfielder.

"I spoke to David last Monday and notified him of my decision and said that I was planning for the future, looking to change things, and David wasn't included," McClaren said.

"At the present moment I am looking to take this team in a different direction. It's a new beginning. It's a clean sheet of paper for everybody and that's why I decided not to pick David Beckham."

The game against Greece is at Old Trafford, where Beckham scored some of his greatest goals for Manchester United and England. It was against Greece at Old Trafford that Beckham curled in a last-minute goal in 2001, putting England in the 2002 World Cup.

"Having spoken to Steve McClaren this week I can fully understand that a new manager should want to make his mark on the team and build towards the next World Cup," Beckham said in a statement. "I'm proud to have played for England for 10 years and my passion for representing my country remains as strong as ever."



England Friendly
Tue., Aug. 15, 3 p.m. (LIVE) -
England U21 vs. Moldova

Wed., Aug. 16, 3 p.m. (LIVE) -
England vs. Greece

All times ET, subject to change.
England now must do without Beckham's free kicks and penalty kicks as well as his long passes of uncanny accuracy. It was Beckham's free kick in a 1-0 victory over Ecuador that got England through to the quarterfinals of the World Cup in Germany.

"I have great respect for him, fantastic captain for England, a great player and still is a great player and he took the news very well," McClaren said. "Although he was disappointed. I got the reaction I wanted and the reaction was that he would continue to fight for his place and I will never close to the door."

Beckham limped out of England's quarterfinal against Portugal with ankle and Achilles' tendon injuries and sat tearfully on the side as his team was eliminated in a penalty-kick shootout after a 0-0 tie.

The next day he stepped down as England captain after 58 games, but said he wanted to keep playing for national team.

Beckham's critics insist he should have gone long ago. His show-biz lifestyle, his high-profile marriage to former Spice Girl Victoria Adams and the wealth he gained through nonsoccer endorsements also prompted suggestions he was no longer interested in the game.

His ability with his accurate right foot made him a name on the soccer field and even became a movie title, "Bend It Like Beckham." But his critics said it was his only skill.

A right wing, Beckham doesn't dribble past opponents. He rarely gets into close-range shooting positions and the only goals he scores from open play are long shots. Although he has the stamina to run for 90 minutes, he no longer has much pace. He is also a poor tackler who regularly gets into trouble with referees for petulant behavior.

It was his retaliatory kick at Diego Simeone that led to a red card against Argentina at the 1998 World Cup. England had to play for another 73 minutes with 10 players, eventually losing in a shootout.

While playing for Manchester United, Beckham was blamed for England's elimination and jeered by rival fans. But he bounced back and became a favorite again, appointed captain of the national team. He inspired England to a 5-1 victory over Germany in a World Cup qualifier in Munich and guaranteed a spot at the 2002 World Cup with his last-minute free kick against Greece.

But England didn't make it past the quarterfinals in South Korea and Japan, and Beckham was partly to blame again.

Having just recovered from a broken left foot, Beckham jumped out of a tackle against Brazil, and the move led to a tying goal. Brazil won 2-1 and went on to capture its fifth title while England went home.

His goals helped England reach the 2004 European Championship. But Beckham, by then a Real Madrid player, shot high and wide from the penalty spot in another shootout loss to host Portugal.

Under Eriksson, Beckham stayed as captain and helped the team reach the 2006 World Cup. But he angered FIFA president Sepp Blatter when he deliberately fouled an opponent to get himself suspended from a World Cup qualifying game against Azerbaijan. He knew at the time he would miss the game because of injury.

Beckham made 94 appearances for England - he was captain for 58 - and has long said he'd like to reach 100. Only now, it's a "new beginning."


Squad:

Goalkeepers: Paul Robinson (Tottenham), Chris Kirkland (Wigan), Ben Foster (Watford)

Defenders: Gary Neville (Manchester United), Luke Young (Charlton), Rio Ferdinand (Manchester United), Phil Neville (Everton), John Terry (Chelsea), Jamie Carragher (Liverpool), Michael Dawson (Tottenham), Wayne Bridge (Chelsea), Ashley Cole (Arsenal), Wes Brown (Manchester United)

Midfielders: Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Owen Hargreaves (Bayern Munich), Aaron Lennon (Tottenham), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham), Stewart Downing (Middlesbrough), Shaun Wright-Phillips (Chelsea), Kieran Richardson (Manchester United)

Forwards: Peter Crouch (Liverpool), Jermain Defoe (Tottenham), Dean Ashton (West Ham), Darren Bent (Charlton)

[saldana]

apparently replacing him as captain was only the beginning...


Beckham dropped from England squad
Posted: 2 hours ago



LONDON (AP) - England may never again rely on David Beckham's bending free kicks.


Coach Steve McClaren on Friday left him off the squad that will face European champion Greece on Wednesday in an exhibition game.

The coach has not completely shut the door on one of soccer's most glamorous and popular players, but Mclaren is trying to build a national team without the 31-year-old Real Madrid midfielder.

"I spoke to David last Monday and notified him of my decision and said that I was planning for the future, looking to change things, and David wasn't included," McClaren said.

"At the present moment I am looking to take this team in a different direction. It's a new beginning. It's a clean sheet of paper for everybody and that's why I decided not to pick David Beckham."

The game against Greece is at Old Trafford, where Beckham scored some of his greatest goals for Manchester United and England. It was against Greece at Old Trafford that Beckham curled in a last-minute goal in 2001, putting England in the 2002 World Cup.

"Having spoken to Steve McClaren this week I can fully understand that a new manager should want to make his mark on the team and build towards the next World Cup," Beckham said in a statement. "I'm proud to have played for England for 10 years and my passion for representing my country remains as strong as ever."



England Friendly
Tue., Aug. 15, 3 p.m. (LIVE) -
England U21 vs. Moldova

Wed., Aug. 16, 3 p.m. (LIVE) -
England vs. Greece

All times ET, subject to change.
England now must do without Beckham's free kicks and penalty kicks as well as his long passes of uncanny accuracy. It was Beckham's free kick in a 1-0 victory over Ecuador that got England through to the quarterfinals of the World Cup in Germany.

"I have great respect for him, fantastic captain for England, a great player and still is a great player and he took the news very well," McClaren said. "Although he was disappointed. I got the reaction I wanted and the reaction was that he would continue to fight for his place and I will never close to the door."

Beckham limped out of England's quarterfinal against Portugal with ankle and Achilles' tendon injuries and sat tearfully on the side as his team was eliminated in a penalty-kick shootout after a 0-0 tie.

The next day he stepped down as England captain after 58 games, but said he wanted to keep playing for national team.

Beckham's critics insist he should have gone long ago. His show-biz lifestyle, his high-profile marriage to former Spice Girl Victoria Adams and the wealth he gained through nonsoccer endorsements also prompted suggestions he was no longer interested in the game.

His ability with his accurate right foot made him a name on the soccer field and even became a movie title, "Bend It Like Beckham." But his critics said it was his only skill.

A right wing, Beckham doesn't dribble past opponents. He rarely gets into close-range shooting positions and the only goals he scores from open play are long shots. Although he has the stamina to run for 90 minutes, he no longer has much pace. He is also a poor tackler who regularly gets into trouble with referees for petulant behavior.

It was his retaliatory kick at Diego Simeone that led to a red card against Argentina at the 1998 World Cup. England had to play for another 73 minutes with 10 players, eventually losing in a shootout.

While playing for Manchester United, Beckham was blamed for England's elimination and jeered by rival fans. But he bounced back and became a favorite again, appointed captain of the national team. He inspired England to a 5-1 victory over Germany in a World Cup qualifier in Munich and guaranteed a spot at the 2002 World Cup with his last-minute free kick against Greece.

But England didn't make it past the quarterfinals in South Korea and Japan, and Beckham was partly to blame again.

Having just recovered from a broken left foot, Beckham jumped out of a tackle against Brazil, and the move led to a tying goal. Brazil won 2-1 and went on to capture its fifth title while England went home.

His goals helped England reach the 2004 European Championship. But Beckham, by then a Real Madrid player, shot high and wide from the penalty spot in another shootout loss to host Portugal.

Under Eriksson, Beckham stayed as captain and helped the team reach the 2006 World Cup. But he angered FIFA president Sepp Blatter when he deliberately fouled an opponent to get himself suspended from a World Cup qualifying game against Azerbaijan. He knew at the time he would miss the game because of injury.

Beckham made 94 appearances for England - he was captain for 58 - and has long said he'd like to reach 100. Only now, it's a "new beginning."


Squad:

Goalkeepers: Paul Robinson (Tottenham), Chris Kirkland (Wigan), Ben Foster (Watford)

Defenders: Gary Neville (Manchester United), Luke Young (Charlton), Rio Ferdinand (Manchester United), Phil Neville (Everton), John Terry (Chelsea), Jamie Carragher (Liverpool), Michael Dawson (Tottenham), Wayne Bridge (Chelsea), Ashley Cole (Arsenal), Wes Brown (Manchester United)

Midfielders: Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Owen Hargreaves (Bayern Munich), Aaron Lennon (Tottenham), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham), Stewart Downing (Middlesbrough), Shaun Wright-Phillips (Chelsea), Kieran Richardson (Manchester United)

Forwards: Peter Crouch (Liverpool), Jermain Defoe (Tottenham), Dean Ashton (West Ham), Darren Bent (Charlton)

[illinifan999]

Best thing about soccer: no commercials

[Cringer]

Best thing about soccer: no commercials

But still too much advertising. :)

I hate that crap on sports uniforms, and I will never like it.

[cthomer5000]

But still too much advertising. :)

I hate that crap on sports uniforms, and I will never like it.

I will gladly trade jersey pollution for a constant game with no commercials. And as a bonus... any temptation to buy a jersey is removed!

I could only see myself buying a national jersey.

[cthomer5000]

Let's go Liverpool.

[VPI97]

**Community Shield Spoiler**


That was a heck of a goal by Riise to kick things off.

[Crapshoot]

**Community Shield Spoiler**











That was a heck of a goal by Riise to kick things off.

No kidding. Just.. wow.

[Joe]

But still too much advertising. :)

I hate that crap on sports uniforms, and I will never like it.

There's no crap on the Barca jerseys. ;)

[cthomer5000]

**Community Shield Spoiler**














That was a heck of a goal by Riise to kick things off.
Hell yeah... It was pretty damn exciting to watch. Everything seems to be going Liverpool's way at the moment with Ballack off now too.

[Critch]

Nice equalizer, maybe Shevchenko was worth all that money afterall.

Chelsea looked better the further on it went after Liverpool were controlling early on. The defence and the goalkeeping at Riise's goal was terrible, ran the length of the pitch unchallenged then Cudicini dived over the shot.

[VPI97]

Finally...I was beginning to think Crouch had gotten lost on his way back the field after the break. I'm not much of a fan of the big guy, but since he's put us ahead, he can't be all that bad.

[cthomer5000]

Finally...I was beginning to think Crouch had gotten lost on his way back the field after the break. I'm not much of a fan of the big guy, but since he's put us ahead, he can't be all that bad.
I like him for the novelty... but he never really seems to do much. He's not exactly exceptional with his head, and I really never see him creating much. But I find Liverpool likeable and it's easy to detest Chelsea, so I'm happy with the result.

[Critch]

But I find Liverpool likeable and it's easy to detset Chelsea, so I'm happy with the result.

I find it easy to detest both of them.

Not a bad game, Chelsea didn't look ready. The Chelsea defence in particular looked disjointed and unready, which is weird since there were no new signings in defence.

Gonzalez, Aurelio and Bellamy all looked like they'll add to the Liverpool challenge, Pennant didn't look up to much though, hopefully he's just a depth signing and not meant to be a regular.

Now roll on next weekend :)

[AlexB]

**Community Shield Spoiler**


That was a heck of a goal by Riise to kick things off.

Was only a good goal because no Chelsea player challenged him, and then Cudicini made a right hash of the save.

But fair play to Riise for his directness.

[Katon]

Not a bad game, Chelsea didn't look ready. The Chelsea defence in particular looked disjointed and unready, which is weird since there were no new signings in defence.
I think there are several factors contributing to that - no Makelele, no Gallas, and an idiotically scheduled preseason. I'd love to know who thought playing in two different countries on consecutive days was a good idea. Or who thought playing just three matches wouldn't leave us underprepared.

Gonzalez, Aurelio and Bellamy all looked like they'll add to the Liverpool challenge, Pennant didn't look up to much though, hopefully he's just a depth signing and not meant to be a regular.
Gonzalez looked very good. Aurelio wasn't as much of a threat, but then he's meant to be a left-back. I'm not convinced Bellamy's the right fit for Liverpool; he's a good player, but he's never been a prolific goalscorer, and that's what they really needed up front.

[cthomer5000]

I think there are several factors contributing to that - no Makelele, no Gallas, and an idiotically scheduled preseason. I'd love to know who thought playing in two different countries on consecutive days was a good idea. Or who thought playing just three matches wouldn't leave us underprepared.

Yeah, there was some bizzare decisions made in the Chelsea preseason. Seems to me the MLS game should have been their final match before the Community Shield, giving them pretty much a normal run-up to that game, especially considering the travel.

I hope this means they get off to a slow start.

[Mac Howard]

I don't accept at this point that the loss was down to lack of fitness. The Chelsea play lacked any definitive shape and was only as good as it was because of the quality of the individuals. Was that 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-3-1-2? I'd go for the last with Robben having a free role to play on either wing or come through the centre but, in truth, neither he nor Drogma seemed to know what their roles were at all. Neither contributed much of anything to Chelsea's attacking play - Drogma went awol and Robben wandered around seemingly aimlessly.

I think it may take some time for Mourinho to sort out what his best eleven is and what formation to play. He does have the players to make a success of anything he chooses and can play several styles even during the course of one game - in one match last season he went from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 to 3-5-2 back to 4-4-2 and finally to 4-5-1 all in one game to win it. On the one hand you can see that as a proactive domination approach but on the other that it smacks of a certain desperation and confusion. With a less expansive squad and more conservative manager it would certainly be the latter but with Chelsea that's not so certain.

For the good of the Premiership I hope Mourinho continues to search for the right combination and a slow start to the season but not with any great confidence that that will be the case.

[Crapshoot]

I like him for the novelty... but he never really seems to do much. He's not exactly exceptional with his head, and I really never see him creating much. But I find Liverpool likeable and it's easy to detest Chelsea, so I'm happy with the result.

Yeah - his touch is quite frankly, pretty bad. He's no Jan Koller. He works for Liverpool when all else fails, but his finishing is piss poor.

[Mac Howard]

Yeah - his touch is quite frankly, pretty bad. He's no Jan Koller. He works for Liverpool when all else fails, but his finishing is piss poor.

"He's got a great touch for a big man" says Tommy-Smyth-with-a-y :)

[Desnudo]

Liverpool's shirt collars get a thumb down. Just awful.

[Critch]

Liverpool's shirt collars get a thumb down. Just awful.

I thought both the Liverpool and Chelsea strips looked ok, better than the new Man Utd anyway. Man Utd look like they're wearing a Liverpool shirt from the late 60's.

[Katon]

I don't accept at this point that the loss was down to lack of fitness. The Chelsea play lacked any definitive shape and was only as good as it was because of the quality of the individuals. Was that 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-3-1-2? I'd go for the last with Robben having a free role to play on either wing or come through the centre but, in truth, neither he nor Drogma seemed to know what their roles were at all. Neither contributed much of anything to Chelsea's attacking play - Drogma went awol and Robben wandered around seemingly aimlessly.

I think it may take some time for Mourinho to sort out what his best eleven is and what formation to play. He does have the players to make a success of anything he chooses and can play several styles even during the course of one game - in one match last season he went from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 to 3-5-2 back to 4-4-2 and finally to 4-5-1 all in one game to win it. On the one hand you can see that as a proactive domination approach but on the other that it smacks of a certain desperation and confusion. With a less expansive squad and more conservative manager it would certainly be the latter but with Chelsea that's not so certain.

For the good of the Premiership I hope Mourinho continues to search for the right combination and a slow start to the season but not with any great confidence that that will be the case.

I think lack of fitness played a part - Liverpool really took control in the last twenty or twenty-five minutes, when they just had much more energy than us. That's just a quibble, though, as our formation was definitely the bigger problem. But that's also down to our preseason, at least partly; with just three matches it's more difficult to get players used to new formations (or, in this case, figure out that the formation doesn't work), especially when the timing forces your hand regarding squad selection.

[Mac Howard]

I think lack of fitness played a part - Liverpool really took control in the last twenty or twenty-five minutes, when they just had much more energy than us.

And the first 20 to 25 minutes when fatigue shouldn't have been a problem. But I think this is partly down to the fact that Liverpool play a faster paced game than Chelsea's more technical style.

That's just a quibble, though, as our formation was definitely the bigger problem. But that's also down to our preseason, at least partly; with just three matches it's more difficult to get players used to new formations (or, in this case, figure out that the formation doesn't work), especially when the timing forces your hand regarding squad selection.

Yes. It takes time to get used to a new style of play and with new players as well then, as a Man Utd supporter, I hope it takes half a season ;)

[Fighter of Foo]

Gonzalez looked very good. Aurelio wasn't as much of a threat, but then he's meant to be a left-back. I'm not convinced Bellamy's the right fit for Liverpool; he's a good player, but he's never been a prolific goalscorer, and that's what they really needed up front.

I thought Gonzalez had his proverbial lunch eaten by Geremi. Three or four times in the first half he treid to take him on and failed. Seemed like he was pressing things a bit much. Saw him a few times for Sociedad last season and played fairly well, so we'll see.

And yes, piss poor defending on all three goals, though Lampard's through ball over the top was perfectly timed and placed.

[Desnudo]

I thought both the Liverpool and Chelsea strips looked ok, better than the new Man Utd anyway. Man Utd look like they're wearing a Liverpool shirt from the late 60's.

I thought the collars looked really ugly, and outdated. Chelsea's mock collars weren't so hot either. I mean what will they bring back next, 3 inch inseam shorts? :)

[Desnudo]

Randy Lerner, owner of the Browns, will take over Aston Villa.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/4789693.stm

"A club statement on the Stock Exchange said a stake of 56.85% of majority shareholders had been secured by Lerner at 547 pence per share."

[cthomer5000]

Anyone out there who watches Sky Sport News on Fox Soccer Channel (specifically the 7PM Eastern show), can you also hear the regular mouse-clicking sounds? Does it bother you as much as it bothers me? Why can't they stop it!

Am I alone on this one?

[MJ4H]

hahah yeah I noticed that earlier tonight as well. crazy

[Critch]

So Rooney and Scholes have both lost their appeals and will both miss the first three games of the season. I thought the decision to send Rooney off was pretty ridiculous, but the English FA's decision to uphold the sending off and confirm the ban is even more ridiculous. I'm sure the Man Utd fans already strong paranoia about the FA will be boosted by this.

Can't wait for Saturday, I'll be in the recliner nice and early preparing for a weekend of EPL. By my counting it'll be possible to watch 8 of the 10 games on the first weekend armed only with DirecTV, Tivo, FSC and Setanta. And that will rise to 9 per week after September 16th when Setanta will be adding a second channel on DirecTV for them to use when they have the rights to two concurrent live games.

And I'll have to watch the 4 Bundesliga games on GolTV too.

Kickass.

[Critch]

dola....

Saturday
7.30am Sheff Utd v Liverpool - Setanta
9.45am Arsenal v Aston Villa - Setanta
10.00am Newcastle v Wigan - FSC
12.00pm Bolton v Spurs - FSC
2.15pm Reading v Middlesbrough - FSC
2.30pm West Ham v Charlton - Setanta

Sunday
8.30am Man Utd v Fulham - Setanta
11.00am Chelsea v Man City - FSC

Kickass again.

[MylesKnight]

Speaking of the EPL, does anyone have any info on Wigan Athletic? This is a squad that played in England's top level for the first time last season and did fairly well (10th place finish).

Any chance of this squad getting even better over time? What has been their secret for success, coming from what would seem to be virtual obscurity?

Is this the kind of Cinderella story that would be good to follow in European Soccer?

[Desnudo]

I think the backstory on Wigan is something like this:

Wigan, a rugby town, puts together a good collection of veterans and up and coming youngsters after being bought by a local sporting goods magnate and hiring an excellent coach. Playing attractive football, they stun the EPL by actually pushing for Europe.

The team has trouble attracting transfers due to the general crudiness of Wigan the town, despite having some money available. They also perform better on the road, due to lack of home support, althought it is getting better.

So yes, definitely a cinderella story. But I don't think they'll get better since they've lost more talent than they've gained this summer and they won't suprise teams anymore. And they still have a lot of trouble attracting players.

[tanglewood]

Wigan are a mini Chelsea. Their owner is rolling in the cash and has bankrolled their rise from Division 3 (now League 2) up to Premiership in the space of 7-8 seasons.

[Critch]

It's a bit unfair to call them a mini-Chelsea, they do have money behind them now, but they're not really outspending clubs that they're out-performing (most of the teams from the midlands, for example). They're just on a level playing field with them.

Paul Jewell is a great manager, he's the difference. This isn't the first time he's been successful in the EPL with an unfashionable club, he kept Bradford up too, he just knows what he's doing. Although he did spend 6mil on Emile Heskey.

And Reading aren't Cinderella either, their owner is one ot the 200 richest men in the UK :)

[Crapshoot]

The Kuyt to Liverpool saga is finally over - it seems we've finally got a 4th striker, though shockingly, Feyenoord didn't want Kronkamp as part of it. :D

Any Dutch fans want to provide some insight on Kuyt ? He's been bandied about for years but he didn't exactly impress at the WC (not doubt due to Van Basten's formations) - my read is that he's a poacher and a good finisher, which is something we desperately need.

[Crapshoot]

dola....

Saturday
7.30am Sheff Utd v Liverpool - Setanta
9.45am Arsenal v Aston Villa - Setanta
10.00am Newcastle v Wigan - FSC
12.00pm Bolton v Spurs - FSC
2.15pm Reading v Middlesbrough - FSC
2.30pm West Ham v Charlton - Setanta

Sunday
8.30am Man Utd v Fulham - Setanta
11.00am Chelsea v Man City - FSC

Kickass again.

Shit - Setana doesn't appear to be available for Comcast.

[Critch]

Shit - Setana doesn't appear to be available for Comcast.

Nope, at the moment it's only DirecTV or some other satellite thing called Globecast.

[MIJB#19]

The Kuyt to Liverpool saga is finally over - it seems we've finally got a 4th striker, though shockingly, Feyenoord didn't want Kronkamp as part of it. :D

Any Dutch fans want to provide some insight on Kuyt ? He's been bandied about for years but he didn't exactly impress at the WC (not doubt due to Van Basten's formations) - my read is that he's a poacher and a good finisher, which is something we desperately need.
Dirk Kuijt was a fan favorite with FC Utrecht (Forza Utreg, ole, ole!), then scored three goals in has last game for Utrecht against his already announced new team, Feyenoord, where he also became a fan favorite very quickly. He's a guy who fits with Liverpool's image, helping out everywhere where he can. He isn't as gifted with technical tricks like a Bergkamp, Robben or Van Persie, but Kuijt works really, really, really hard and just scores goals (20+ goals in each of the last four seasons in the Netherlands). Add in that he missed only one game in the last 5 seasons (being a meaningless last game of the season) and you'll always play. Do I also need to tell he made 10+ assists in each of his seasons with Feyenoord?

[Mac Howard]

Dirk Kuijt was a fan favorite with FC Utrecht (Forza Utreg, ole, ole!), then scored three goals in has last game for Utrecht against his already announced new team, Feyenoord, where he also became a fan favorite very quickly. He's a guy who fits with Liverpool's image, helping out everywhere where he can. He isn't as gifted with technical tricks like a Bergkamp, Robben or Van Persie, but Kuijt works really, really, really hard and just scores goals (20+ goals in each of the last four seasons in the Netherlands). Add in that he missed only one game in the last 5 seasons (being a meaningless last game of the season) and you'll always play. Do I also need to tell he made 10+ assists in each of his seasons with Feyenoord?

I was very unimpressed with him at the WC, MIJB#19, and though any player can have a run of bad games you can usually see beyond that and he didn't come across as being your typical, quality Dutch striker.

[Critch]

He isn't as gifted with technical tricks like a Bergkamp, Robben or Van Persie....

I've been looking for an excuse to post this link for weeks :) (Safe for work)

hxxp://www.ffcuk.me.uk/vanPersiemissBolton.gif

I wasn't impressed by Kuyt at the World Cup either, but Liverpool have been trailing him so long I'm sure they know what they're getting. Looking forward to seeing who Liverpool settle on as a forward line, is Kuyt bad news for Crouch?

[law90026]

20+ goals in the Dutch league isn't always the most impressive achievement ...

[scooter]

I wasn't impressed by Kuyt at the World Cup either

I've seen this quote a lot with regards to his WC play. I would have to agree whole-heartedly. He did not play well. But neither did Ronaldinho and we all know what he can do at club level. Now I'm not comparing Dirk to Ronaldinho, I'm just using that as an example. I'll wait and see how he fits in to pass judgement.

Also, Ruud didn't have a particularly stellar WC either. While some of that may be down to his other problems, is there a possibility that there might have been something wrong with the overall tactics of the team and not just the player (Kuyt, Ruud, etc.)?

[Desnudo]

I think WC performances are not reliable indicators of a player's ability. Performance over a long season in club football is a much better way to tell.

[SirFozzie]

Let's see.. what's news:

Rumors have it that English Championship side West Bromwich Albion (WBA was relegated from the Premier League last year) has tabled a $2 Million dollar bid for KC's Eddie Johnson. (Considering EJ's slide over the last year, how MLS hasn't accepted this yet is surprising)

The Scottish Premier League want to absorb 10 more teams from the Scottish League system to form a 2nd division of the SPL, where the SPL would have 12 teams, the SPL2 would have 10, and one team would be promoted/relegated. (So all that would change really is the name of the 2nd division from Scottish First Division to the SPL2, and who would run it, from the FA to the SPL teams.. (confused))

Owen Hargreaves has asked to speak with Bayern Munich management in an effort to push his bid to leave the team to join Manchester United.

The EPL kicks off this weekend, and for EPL fans, if you have DirecTV, you won't miss many games as between Setanta Sports and Fox Soccer Channel, 8 of the 10 games being played in week one will be shown live on one of the two channels. How much overload is there? Setanta is in final stages of negotiations with DirecTV to provide a second channel on the lineup to be used when there is two games Setanta has rights to at the same time.

Speaking of Setanta and 2nd channels, rumor has it with all the leagues that they now have rights to, that they will be adding another channel, called Setanta Sports Extra, and will be populating that with Rugby and Gaelic Football and Hurling, along with Aussie Rules Football. Kinda like the evolution of Fox Sports World into Fox Soccer Channel, except they'll just move the other stuff over to Setanta Extra instead of dropping them.

[SirFozzie]

Dola: a Fifth and sixth team was punished today in the italian Serie A sporting fraud scandal.

Serie A side Reggina was hit with a 15 point penalty in the 06/07 season for attempted Sporting Fraud, a penalty which likely will condemn them to the drop to Serie B next year, as they are a lower level team

Serie B side Arezzo avoided relegation to Serie C1 but will start next season with a nine-point deduction.

[MIJB#19]

20+ goals in the Dutch league isn't always the most impressive achievement ...
Do some facts checking before you make these kind of claims. If you had taken the time to look at who've done it before, you wouldn't be calling it that. He scored 29 goals in the 2004/2005 season, 22 the following season. That's pretty good for a guy who isn't known for his goalscoring.

Don't get me wrong, we're only a second tier league. And I've said it before, I'll say it again, I've never been impressed by Kuijt, I wouldn't put him in the usual Dutch top strikers class. He even played many years for my favorite team and I'm not all "He's the greatest thing on earth!".

But the numbers don't lie either. You don't score so many goals in that many consecutive seasons. The last player to manage a 20+ in three consecutive seasons was Dennis Bergkamp in 1990-1993. Of the ten times someone scored 29 or more goals, the players were named Mateja Kezman (2x), Ruud van Nistelrooij (2x), Nikos Machlas, Ronaldo, Wim Kieft and Marco van Basten (2x). Romario never managed more than 25, Patrick Kluivert's best is 18, Roy Makaay's best 19, Zlatan Ibrahimovic' 13.

[Crapshoot]

Do some facts checking before you make these kind of claims. If you had taken the time to look at who've done it before, you wouldn't be calling it that. He scored 29 goals in the 2004/2005 season, 22 the following season. That's pretty good for a guy who isn't known for his goalscoring.

Don't get me wrong, we're only a second tier league. And I've said it before, I'll say it again, I've never been impressed by Kuijt, I wouldn't put him in the usual Dutch top strikers class. He even played many years for my favorite team and I'm not all "He's the greatest thing on earth!".

But the numbers don't lie either. You don't score so many goals in that many consecutive seasons. The last player to manage a 20+ in three consecutive seasons was Dennis Bergkamp in 1990-1993. Of the ten times someone scored 29 or more goals, the players were named Mateja Kezman (2x), Ruud van Nistelrooij (2x), Nikos Machlas, Ronaldo, Wim Kieft and Marco van Basten (2x). Romario never managed more than 25, Patrick Kluivert's best is 18, Roy Makaay's best 19, Zlatan Ibrahimovic' 13.

To be fair, that's not a reasonable comp - a striker (especially the likes of Ibrahimovic) is often responsible for creating the goals as much as scoring them. Also, Kezman, Machlas and co are the more recent examples, which may be why there's some degree of skepticism towards the goalscoring exploits.

[Ryan S]

for EPL fans, if you have DirecTV, you won't miss many games as between Setanta Sports and Fox Soccer Channel, 8 of the 10 games being played in week one will be shown live on one of the two channels.

8 live games? :eek:

In the UK we have two live games this week, with two more on pay per view.

[SirFozzie]

8 live games? :eek:

In the UK we have two live games this week, with two more on pay per view.

Sorry, not all Live Coverage a couple of Same Dayers. but for example, here's the week 1 schedule here in the States


Setanta Sports' EPL Schedule (all are US Eastern time)
Saturday, August 19th, 7:30am ET: Sheffield United v Liverpool. (Kickoff 7:45)-Live!

Saturday, August 19th, 9:30am ET: Arsenal v Aston Villa. (KO 10 AM) - Live!

Saturday August 19th, 2:30 PM West Ham vs Charlton (Same Day Coverage)

Sunday, August 20th, 8:30am ET: Manchester United v Fulham - Live!

Fox Soccer Channel's EPL Schedule
Sat. Aug 19 EPL Newcastle Wigan 10:00 a.m. - Live!
Sat. Aug 19 EPL Bolton Tottenham 12:00 p.m.- Live!
Sat. Aug 19 EPL Reading Middlesbrough 2:30 p.m.-Same Day
Sun. Aug 20 EPL Chelsea Man. City 11:00 a.m.- Live!

In other words, holy shit do we get a lot of EPL games

[SirFozzie]

so that's 6 Live, 2 Same Day Coverage.

Here's how it breaks down:

* Saturdays at 7:30am ET: Setanta Sports USA
* Saturdays at 10am ET: Setanta Sports USA has the 1st and 3rd picks, FOX Soccer Channel has the 2nd and 4th picks
* Saturdays at 12noon ET: FOX Soccer Channel
* Sundays at 8:30am ET or 9am ET: Setanta Sports USA
* Sundays at 11am ET: FOX Soccer Channel
* Mondays at 3pm ET: FOX Soccer Channel
* Tuesdays-Fridays: Setanta Sports USA has the 1st pick, FOX Soccer Channel has the 2nd pick

[law90026]

Do some facts checking before you make these kind of claims. If you had taken the time to look at who've done it before, you wouldn't be calling it that. He scored 29 goals in the 2004/2005 season, 22 the following season. That's pretty good for a guy who isn't known for his goalscoring.

Don't get me wrong, we're only a second tier league. And I've said it before, I'll say it again, I've never been impressed by Kuijt, I wouldn't put him in the usual Dutch top strikers class. He even played many years for my favorite team and I'm not all "He's the greatest thing on earth!".

But the numbers don't lie either. You don't score so many goals in that many consecutive seasons. The last player to manage a 20+ in three consecutive seasons was Dennis Bergkamp in 1990-1993. Of the ten times someone scored 29 or more goals, the players were named Mateja Kezman (2x), Ruud van Nistelrooij (2x), Nikos Machlas, Ronaldo, Wim Kieft and Marco van Basten (2x). Romario never managed more than 25, Patrick Kluivert's best is 18, Roy Makaay's best 19, Zlatan Ibrahimovic' 13.

I'm not saying he didn't score that many goals. But I tend to view goalscoring records from some of the smaller leagues with some scepticism. Nikos Machlas? Kezman? Sure some work out but not all do and it's not an indication by any means that the player is a "star". That's also why I view goalscoring records in the French League with similar scepticism (Cisse .. Wiltord ... Cygan - Defender of the Year??!?!).

[MIJB#19]

To be fair, that's not a reasonable comp - a striker (especially the likes of Ibrahimovic) is often responsible for creating the goals as much as scoring them. Also, Kezman, Machlas and co are the more recent examples, which may be why there's some degree of skepticism towards the goalscoring exploits.I'm not saying he didn't score that many goals. But I tend to view goalscoring records from some of the smaller leagues with some scepticism. Nikos Machlas? Kezman? Sure some work out but not all do and it's not an indication by any means that the player is a "star". That's also why I view goalscoring records in the French League with similar scepticism (Cisse .. Wiltord ... Cygan - Defender of the Year??!?!).I'm not saying that goals are a guarantee for being a star (hence Machlas and Kezman), but the majority still turned out to be world class strikers. Really, I'm skeptic myself, deep inside, I don't expect Kuijt to break into the starting lineup with Liverpool at all, and don't understand why he got the preference over Makaay and Van Nistelrooij in Oranje. But right now I think he deserves to be seen as a pretty good striker who could fit well with Liverpool's tradition. It's too early to write Kuijt down.

[Katon]

He's certainly not likely to do a Kezman, but Liverpool are swimming in pretty good strikers who aren't out-and-out goalscorers. Why they're spending nine million on another one, I have no idea.

[MIJB#19]

He's certainly not likely to do a Kezman, but Liverpool are swimming in pretty good strikers who aren't out-and-out goalscorers. Why they're spending nine million on another one, I have no idea.
I have no idea either. But they most know something, they scouted Kuijt for like 18 months before they made the deal.

[Katon]

Chelsea Football Club have agreed an undisclosed fee with Hamburg SV for the transfer of Khalid Boulahrouz.

The Dutch international defender will be travelling to London over the weekend to discuss personal terms and to have a medical.
MIJB, anything you can tell me about Boulahrouz? The only things I can remember about him are a) he's a fairly regular starter for the Dutch national team and b)he was involved in some kind of incident in the Portugal game (though this is really just equivalent to point a).

[Critch]

MIJB, anything you can tell me about Boulahrouz? The only things I can remember about him are a) he's a fairly regular starter for the Dutch national team and b)he was involved in some kind of incident in the Portugal game (though this is really just equivalent to point a).

I work with an HSV fan, so I mentioned this to him. His reply was "Good, I've never liked him, he's a butcher" and "How much did we get? We might be able to get somebody good to replace him".

So that's not a hearty endorsement. Looks like he'll be a squad player at Chelsea rather than a week-in/week-out starter, I guess.

[MIJB#19]

MIJB, anything you can tell me about Boulahrouz? The only things I can remember about him are a) he's a fairly regular starter for the Dutch national team and b)he was involved in some kind of incident in the Portugal game (though this is really just equivalent to point a).
Boulahrouz to Chelsea? That's really awesome. Although, I have to admit, had he not been born and raised in my hometown, I would have cared a lot less.

I think Boulahrouz compares best to a Jaap Stam kind of defender. Physical strong, great header, probably even a lot faster. Get a copy of the Argentina-Netherlands game of the World Championships. Seriously, Boulahrouz was amazing that game. Additionally, he's a big role model for Dutch born Moroccans here.

Don't believe the spreaded 'used to be a striker' myth though. That's just a funny trivia thing. Back when he played at RKC Waalwijk, there was a huge injury problem with 5 or 6 strikers injured. The coach then (Martin Jol) put Boulahrouz in front to fill the void. He did okay there, but defending the house is definately his cuppa tea.

[scooter]

MIJB, anything you can tell me about Boulahrouz? The only things I can remember about him are a) he's a fairly regular starter for the Dutch national team and b)he was involved in some kind of incident in the Portugal game (though this is really just equivalent to point a).

Well he made Soccernet's "World Cup Worst XI".

hxxp://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=373649&root=worldcup&cc=5739&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos2

I seem to remember him starting a couple games and coming on as a substitute a couple times. I think he played both center and right back. Other than the WC, I've never seen him play.

[MIJB#19]

Well he made Soccernet's "World Cup Worst XI".

hxxp://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=373649&root=worldcup&cc=5739&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos2

I seem to remember him starting a couple games and coming on as a substitute a couple times. I think he played both center and right back. Other than the WC, I've never seen him play.
Awesome, "Holland" had the majority of the players. Well deserved to the team. I guess Van Basten saw the same thing, because he ended Van Bommel's and Van Nistelrooij's international careers. Although I really think Boulahrouz has no business being in that list. There were about 50 worse starting central defenders in the tournament.

[Crapshoot]

Awesome - is he going to be Chelsea's starting CB for the reserve team ?

[MIJB#19]

Awesome - is he going to be Chelsea's starting CB for the reserve team ?No, the reserve's starting right back, it appears. Apparently they wanted he because he can play two positions. :D

[Katon]

Awesome, "Holland" had the majority of the players. Well deserved to the team. I guess Van Basten saw the same thing, because he ended Van Bommel's and Van Nistelrooij's international careers. Although I really think Boulahrouz has no business being in that list. There were about 50 worse starting central defenders in the tournament.

And they really don't present an argument. Or, rather, their argument is entirely about his tackle on Ronaldo - which was pretty nasty, but not the sort of thing that's really relevant to a Worst XI - and the only thing said about his actual play is that he was good against Argentina.

My guess is that Boulahrouz is meant to do two things for us. One, he gives us enough versatile defenders that we can live with only one out-and-out left-back if need be. Two, he gives us CB depth in case (or when) Gallas winds up leaving; with Huth all but out the door, we were down to two centre-backs who actually wanted to be here, which is a precarious state of affairs.

[SirFozzie]

btw, Setanta will be putting on a free preview this weekend, if you have DirecTV

[wbatl1]

OK, will you guys check my thinking...

I only have FSC

So, I get two Saturday 3:00 BST Games,
and then one sunday game.

Is that correct?

[Joe]

On FSC you get:


Saturdays
10am ET -- Live Premiership match
12:15pm ET -- Live Premiership match
3pm ET -- Tape delayed Premiership match

Sundays
11am ET -- Live Premiership match

Mondays
3pm ET -- Live Premiership match

[Critch]

The 10am game on Setanta gives goal updates from the other games as it goes along, so that messes up the plan to watch tivoed games without knowing the score.

Edit - And halftime reports from the other games too.

[cthomer5000]

OK, will you guys check my thinking...

I only have FSC

So, I get two Saturday 3:00 BST Games,
and then one sunday game.

Is that correct?

No, 2 live and 1 taped on saturday, not 1 and 1.

Sat 3:00 BST (live)
Sat 5:00 BST (live)
Sat 7:00 BST (tape delayed game from 3:00)

Sun 4:00 BST (live)


I think the weekday games depend upon how many games are being played that day.

[cthomer5000]

Absolutely awful first half from Spurs. The goals they let up were kind of flukey, but for all that posession we're basically looking at one actual scoring opportunity. They can't seem to get the ball to Defoe, they aren't getting it to Lennon enough, and Assou-Ekotto looks like he couldn't care less about what's going on out there, or at least he's playing that way.

[Critch]

Absolutely awful first half from Spurs.

Yeah, they were awful. So bad that I gave up on the game and flicked to Aachen v Schalke on GolTV.

The Arsenal game this morning was amazing, never seen anything quite like it (I'm trying to avoid spoilers if people have it tivoed). Well worth watching.

[ISiddiqui]

Crap... first weekend of EPL, and I'm in the Seattle/Tacoma area, away from my glorious FSC at home :(.

[Joe]

exciting showing from reading

[wbatl1]

No, 2 live and 1 taped on saturday, not 1 and 1.

Sat 3:00 BST (live)
Sat 5:00 BST (live)
Sat 7:00 BST (tape delayed game from 3:00)

Sun 4:00 BST (live)


I think the weekday games depend upon how many games are being played that day.

Thanks.

Some good stuff today, and the newly promoted really held their own.

[MIJB#19]

20+ goals in the Dutch league isn't always the most impressive achievement ...
Uhm, yeah, maybe you're right afterall.

I'm not sure people watch highlights of the Dutch league here, but the number of goals today sure lives up to the "it's easy to score goals in Holland".

[Ryan S]

I work with an HSV fan, so I mentioned this to him. His reply was "Good, I've never liked him, he's a butcher" and "How much did we get? We might be able to get somebody good to replace him".

So that's not a hearty endorsement. Looks like he'll be a squad player at Chelsea rather than a week-in/week-out starter, I guess.

I was at the Hamburg SV v VFB Stuttgart game in February, and I remember that Stuttgart's first goal came from a botched clearance by Boulahrouz.

The second goal was more interesting. Rafael van der Vaart tried to pass back to the keeper, but forgot that the keeper had come up for the free kick....

Video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD2X9Y1cpQA)

That is when I found out that van der Vaart was not the quickest player in the world.

Other game notes:

I have no idea why the teams chose to wear such similar jerseys, early in the game it could be difficult to tell opposing players apart.

Thimothee Atouba played a truly dreadful game, every pass he made seemed to go to a Stuttgart player.

AOL Arena is by far the most impressive stadium I have visited. I don't think there is a bad seat in the house. The whole matchday experience was far beyond anything I have experienced in the UK and the tickets were very affordable.

[MIJB#19]

Ah yes, Rafael van der Vaart. Here they say he's a combo of Ronaldo and David Beckham. Not only is he overweight, he also married the wrong woman. Guy used to be the next greatest thing here, however, his best season was 2002/2003.

[bhlloy]

I can't believe I have never seen that clip before... that is an absolute classic. I love the fall at the end hoping desperately for a foul.

[cthomer5000]

Goal of the week for me is the game winner for Reading... just a crazy-ass play to wrap up the comeback from 2-0 and win their debut.. it blows my mind each time i see the replay.

[law90026]

Some thoughts on the first week of EPL action:

Liverpool 1 - Sheffield United 1
Liverpool did not look convincing at all, especially since they needed a very very controversial penalty to equalise. It may be early but Liverpool's attack doesn't look to be quite there yet. Bellamy is bloody brave though, something I've admired about his play for a long time.

Arsenal 1 - Aston Villa 1
Same old Arsenal. Over-elaborate at times and lacking a true "predator" imo. Again, set-pieces look to be a problem, especially with a very young defence. I'm interested to see how the Reyes and Cole situations play out now ... do they get picked or are they sold before the transfer window closes?

Man U 4 - Fulham 1
Man U looks good, that's for sure. Rooney and Ronaldo appear to have worked out any issues they might have ... Fulham look to struggle again this season.

[SirFozzie]

Man U 4 - Fulham 1
Man U looks good, that's for sure. Rooney and Ronaldo appear to have worked out any issues they might have ... Fulham look to struggle again this season.

Was 5-1, but it'll be interesting what will happen now that Rooney has to sit out the next three games..

[Critch]

Obafemi Martins says he's going to sign for Newcastle. That'll be an interesting one, maybe enough to get Newcastle challenging for 5th place.

And a special round of applause for FSC who managed to give away the final score of the Reading v Middlesbrough game on the ticker while they were showing the Reading v Middlebrough game :)

[Desnudo]

Arsenal 1 - Aston Villa 1
Same old Arsenal. Over-elaborate at times and lacking a true "predator" imo. Again, set-pieces look to be a problem, especially with a very young defence. I'm interested to see how the Reyes and Cole situations play out now ... do they get picked or are they sold before the transfer window closes?


"An Ashley Cole-William Gallas swap deal will finally end the summer's longest transfer saga with Chelsea likely to pay Arsenal a £10m cash adjustment. (Daily Express)

Arsenal have made a formal £5m offer for William Gallas. (Guardian)"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/gossip_and_transfers/5269744.stm

[Critch]

Gabriele Marcotti on Man Utd's latest offer for Owen Hargreaves:

"If it goes through, it would mean that United had spent £35m on two holding midfielders in mid-career, neither of whom has been a regular starter at international level until this summer. For that kind of money, you could have signed Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Gianluca Zambrotta, Damien Duff, Craig Bellamy and Tomas Rosicky and still had change left over."

Looks like it may not happen anyway, Bayern are talking about reporting Man Utd to FIFA if they don't stop chasing Hargreaves.

[Katon]

And now the true horror of Juve's punishment strikes home - they've just had to replace Cannavaro with Jean-Alain Boumsong.

[cthomer5000]

Liverpool fans are probably going to find today's Champions League (qualifier) game a little more dramatic then they had initially hoped.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

And now the true horror of Juve's punishment strikes home - they've just had to replace Cannavaro with Jean-Alain Boumsong.

I think I'm going to be sick.

[cthomer5000]

Liverpool fans are probably going to find today's Champions League (qualifier) game a little more dramatic then they had initially hoped.

0-0 at the half. The text commentary and shot numbers indicate Liverpool is dominating, but the fact that posession is even, and Liverpool is one fluke goal away from being knocked out of the Champions League would have me feeling kind of uncomfortable as a fan.

[daedalus]

Liverpool 1 - Sheffield United 1
Liverpool did not look convincing at all, especially since they needed a very very controversial penalty to equalise. It may be early but Liverpool's attack doesn't look to be quite there yet. Bellamy is bloody brave though, something I've admired about his play for a long time.Didn't see the game but the whole concept of Bellamy, Fowler and Pennant on the same squad still makes me giggle.

Kuijt was a great pick up by them, though, in my opinion.
Arsenal 1 - Aston Villa 1
Same old Arsenal. Over-elaborate at times and lacking a true "predator" imo. Again, set-pieces look to be a problem, especially with a very young defence. I'm interested to see how the Reyes and Cole situations play out now ... do they get picked or are they sold before the transfer window closes?With his (lack of) fitness, Le Boss should have sat Henry in my opinion. I would have been quite okay with the combination of Adebayor and Van Persie up front rather than an unfit Henry. Especially given that he's are risking further injuries to Henry.

I like Adebayor more than some Arsenal fans, I think. Especially if he's willing to continue to working on his finishing because he's far from a finish product. But he finds himself in great position to scores quite a lot. Plus he brings something different to the table than other Arsenal strikers - someone who's willing to stand in the middle of the box and provide a target in there.

A "predator" just isn't a typical trait of the current generation of players. Van Persie is the closest thing right now -- I think he'll be great when he gets a good run in the first team opposite Henry. On the other hand, two of them are coming down the pipeline and are currently on loan to get experience. Bendtner has already scored (twice?) for Birmingham City. I think the situation will improve a bit once Rosicky settles in. As he showed team USA, he's not shy about taking shots and should fill Pires' shoes as Henry gunning partner quite well.

I would guess that Cole is gone while Reyes will stay. Real Madrid is trying their standard asshole tactic of unsettling the player and hope for a cheap sale. AW/DD are just the type to flip them off and not accept it. On the other hand, I get the feeling that Chelsea are just posturing because it's Arsenal rather than not being willing to pay to get this done. That should get done. Eventually.

One report has a deal including 500.000 to Arsenal for each piece of silverware that Chelsea wins and another has Chelsea offering Gallas for Cole in a straight swap. In spite of how highly I rate Gallas, I don't know that I'd do that deal straight up. On the other hand, put Gallas together with Bridge and perhaps that bonus per each piece of silverwares that Chelsea lifts and I'd be set.Man U 4 - Fulham 1
Man U looks good, that's for sure. Rooney and Ronaldo appear to have worked out any issues they might have ... Fulham look to struggle again this season.I think Manchester United's future look a lot brighter than some seems to. They have tons of young talent that should be coming together soon.

And I can't wait for Chelsea-Manchester United. As if the showcase of talent isn't already exciting enough, I can't wait to watch Boulahrouz mark C. Ronaldo. :D

[MIJB#19]

And I can't wait for Chelsea-Manchester United. As if the showcase of talent isn't already exciting enough, I can't wait to watch Boulahrouz mark C. Ronaldo.That reminds me, Boulahrouz was today quoted saying: "My philosophy of playing soccer is simple. I get on the pitch to win. I'm a defender, it's my duty to stop the striker. I try to do it in a honest way. I don't kick players into the hospital and do not put my elbow in someone's face. I don't like it and don't need it." (I tried to translate it from Dutch to English as best as I can.)

As much as I believe him, the first thing coming to mind was the Netherlands-Portugal fight. We all know Figo made a brilliant dive in the elbow incident :rolleyes:, but Cristiano Ronaldo still has the scar from the 'tackle' that put him out of the game.

[Critch]

And now the true horror of Juve's punishment strikes home - they've just had to replace Cannavaro with Jean-Alain Boumsong.

I'm betting Boumsong turns out ok at Juventus. Newcastle United wasn't right for him. The defence was a mess with or without him plus it was Newcastle, they're always on the verge of a drama. There were also some stories that his wife was seriously ill in France, so he wasnt training with the team, he spent the week in France to be near to his family.

You don't go from being a good player to a bad player overnight, so he'll bounce back. Plus the pace of the Italian League will probably suit him better, he'll be less rushed into doing something bad while trying to play out of danger.

Or maybe he's just crap.