any home recording experts?

[cthomer5000]

I'm looking to build a rig over the next few months that will allow me as close to studio-quality as possible for as cheaply as possible.

I think it's important to say a few things first:

1. This will be used primarily (as in probably 95% of the time) to record talk. I'm guessing this will allow me to go cheaper in some areas than if I was planning on recording guitar, vocals, etc.

2. Point #1 leads to a few important distinctions, monitoring what i'm recording in real time (on headphones, obviously) is extremely important. Not only will multiple voices be recorded to track, but 1-2 other outside sources as well (CD, an external soundboard loaded with sound bytes, etc). I need to be able to hear those in sync with everything else to make sure the flow of the show is correct. Unlike recording music, like guitar, I need to be able to hear myself and others through headphones while doing it. (I think this may be an important fact because it will knock out USB microphones).

3. Portability is paramount. I want to record to laptop, and I feel this is where my decision making is most imporant. If I'm in another state or country, I want to be able to record there without serious hassle.

Thing I'd be looking for advice on:

Laptop/Notebook computer
What should be my priorities here? From looking around briefly, it seems like an external hard drive is the way to go no matter what. One point being to keep stress off the PC, and the second being that it's much easier to get a speedier external drive. So i'm guessing that with the laptop itself, processor, RAM, and soundcard quality should be my primary concerns?


Microphones
While I've heard some very good things about home USB mics, from everything else I've heard they make monitoring impossible, so those would be out as main microphones (though I might want to pick one up for production purposes, if they make sense for that). So I guess i'm looking for 2-3 microhones that I'll have to run through a mixer...

Mixer
I'm going to need an external mixer, unless there is some method I'm not familiar with for running a number of inputs direct to PC and doing the mixing there (I'd expect we're talking about 4-5 inputs total. I'm near certain I could get by with only 4 total tracks if necssary).


Am I missing anything else obvious?

I'm looking for any specific input on this stuff, but would also welcome anyone suggesting any other places I could ask these questions. I think it's been tough for me to find much of what I'm looking for because any home recording talk I've seen revolves around music, which is a pretty different animal in terms of what the user needs from his home setup.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[WSUCougar]

My brother is very knowledgeable about this subject, so I will relay your questions to him.

[Hurst2112]

Laptop/Notebook computer
What should be my priorities here? From looking around briefly, it seems like an external hard drive is the way to go no matter what. One point being to keep stress off the PC, and the second being that it's much easier to get a speedier external drive. So i'm guessing that with the laptop itself, processor, RAM, and soundcard quality should be my primary concerns?

Mac or Windows? A new ibook duo would be the way to go if you are looking for a new computer. You need a bunch of RAM no matter which route you go. If you are doing a configure to order, get max RAM.

Windows: You could get a comp with a Centrino mobile processor. Stay away from Celeron. You would also need an ilink or 6 pin firwire port(for hard drive).

The speed of the internal hard drive isn't that important. You should not record onto it.

What is your budget? Are you looking at getting a brand new computer? Are you trying to stay under a certain amount? That question needs to be asked before I suggest any audio interfaces. For instance, a Digidesign Mbox would be a PERFECT tool for what you are looking to do. The older ones are around 300-350 on ebay. The newer ones are around $500. There are other options for interfaces in the same range but I strongly suggest Digi stuff (with Pro Tools).

I will write more once I hear from you.

[Icy]

My advice is to use the notebook as recording/editing device but keep the rest totally analogic and use studio recording gear, not pc specific. Buy a mixer, buy studio mics (Shure sm58 is the standard for recording voices while not being so expensive) and don't but USB or computer mics, they are not high quallity. I recorded by old rock band's demo CD with my notebook, an external mixer (16 channels, the one we used in gigs) and a few SM58 mics and the results were good enought.

[Hurst2112]

My advice is to use the notebook as recording/editing device but keep the rest totally analogic and use studio recording gear, not pc specific. Buy a mixer, buy studio mics (Shure sm58 is the standard for recording voices while not being so expensive) and don't but USB or computer mics, they are not high quallity. I recorded by old rock band's demo CD with my notebook, an external mixer (16 channels, the one we used in gigs) and a few SM58 mics and the results were good enought.

portability is one of his essentials.

I couldn't justify a 16 channel desk for recording voice and guitar.

[chinaski]

Laptop/Notebook computer
What should be my priorities here? From looking around briefly, it seems like an external hard drive is the way to go no matter what. One point being to keep stress off the PC, and the second being that it's much easier to get a speedier external drive. So i'm guessing that with the laptop itself, processor, RAM, and soundcard quality should be my primary concerns?

The Macbook Pros (http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/) are insanely amazing. There is no reason to buy any other laptop on the market now that apple is intel. Dual boot OSx and XP, dual core cpu, free ipod and printer with purchase. If you or have a friend whos a student get a great discount. Harddrives are 80gigs by default, but external ones are really cheap these days. 512 memory upgrades are $100 bucks, id go all out and get min 2gigs of ram for audio work.

[Hurst2112]

The Macbook Pros (http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/) are insanely amazing. There is no reason to buy any other laptop on the market now that apple is intel. Dual boot OSx and XP, dual core cpu, free ipod and printer with purchase. If you or have a friend whos a student get a great discount. Harddrives are 80gigs by default, but external ones are really cheap these days. 512 memory upgrades are $100 bucks, id go all out and get min 2gigs of ram for audio work.

a guy i know did a test with a mac book and pro tools 7.X. Even the lesser computer was solid as hell. I can't suggest a macbook pro to somebody who doesn't need it for more than what he is talking about. BUT, if one had the money, it would be hard to not tell him to upgrade to a pro.

[cthomer5000]

What is your budget? Are you looking at getting a brand new computer? Are you trying to stay under a certain amount?
First off, thanks for the initial feedback. I don't have a firm budget for this, but the price of a new Macbook pro gives me serious pause, I'll say that much.

I would say I would probably speed 1,500-2,000 total without sweating too much, but spending 3,000 just on the computer probably puts me a little out of my comfort zone (for those talking macbook pro). Basically, i'm not ready to spend $5,000 grand on the total rig (PC included).

Maybe I could go up to 3,000 total... Although if i can be convinced that buying a mac is the only way to go, I can get used to that thought and make sure i free up some extra cash to do it.

I don't currently own a laptop of any kind, so I have to buy one obviously. I'd prefer new, but if there is some sort of excellent refurbished/used deal out there, im up for anything that will maximize my cash.

My ultimate goal is really to find the happy medium between budget, performance, and portability.

[cthomer5000]

The Macbook Pros (http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/) are insanely amazing. There is no reason to buy any other laptop on the market now that apple is intel.
Uhhh, how about price? I don't think I'm ready to drop 3,000 on the notebook alone.

[Hurst2112]

you don't have to drop that much. a mac book is half that.

[Icy]

portability is one of his essentials.

I couldn't justify a 16 channel desk for recording voice and guitar.

It's what i used, not that he needs it, just a 4 channels mixer should be enought.

[Hurst2112]

i could build a system for you for LESS than 2500 (given your needs and such). Hell, I could do it for less with used laptop.

[Hurst2112]

It's what i used, not that he needs it, just a 4 channels mixer should be enought.

a new mbox has 4 ins. This requires no external power. The A/D conversion with a breakout box of some kind is going to be better than any stock audio in on a laptop as well.

[cthomer5000]

i could build a system for you for LESS than 2500 (given your needs and such). Hell, I could do it for less with used laptop.

If you don't mind, could you outline this hypothetical system?

[Hurst2112]

ok...

computer: macbook (1GB RAM/100GB hardrive/1.83 duo processor) 1349.00

Digidesign Mbox2: 499.00 (includes pro tools software)

Lacie D2 external harddrive: 169.00

Audio-Technica AT2041SP - AT2020 & AT2021 Microphone Pack: 149.99

Sure SM58 microphone: 99.00

about $2300.

So many options less or more than that it hurts my head thinking about it. ;)

[Icy]

This should be more than enought (apart of the notebook and software):

4 channels Mixer ($79):
http://www.proaudiosuperstore.com/Behringer-Eurorack-UB1202.html
My 16 channels mixer is made by Behringer and it's really good quallity for the price. We gigged with it for 5 years and we naver had a problem with it. Instead of this, you can go for one more expensive, with digital output by firewire to avoid losing signal quallity from the mixer to the PC.

Mic ($100):
http://www.proaudiosuperstore.com/Shure-SM58S.html
The standard mic for any studio. It's used for both voice and intruments recording, every pro studio has some of them around.

[dbd1963]

I tried to use a laptop recording setup and learned that not all laptops are made to do it well. It depends on the way they've set the IRQ sharing in the BIOS, which is usually inaccessible to the end user (or was a few years ago when I tried it). I think the apples never have this problem, but with a PC-laptop, you really want to know that someone has successfully used it before buying it for recording.

I'm going to get an apple laptop soon -- they cost a lot more than a PC but the amount of crap I've had to go through on the hardware end.. wish I'd gone apple from the beginning.

[Hurst2112]

i used to run an mbox with my gateway from June 2000. XP home/p4 2.1 processor/512 ram.

If you are going the pro tools/digidesign route, they have an excellent compatibility reference on their site.

[Hurst2112]

This should be more than enought (apart of the notebook and software):

4 channels Mixer ($79):
http://www.proaudiosuperstore.com/Behringer-Eurorack-UB1202.html
My 16 channels mixer is made by Behringer and it's really good quallity for the price. We gigged with it for 5 years and we naver had a problem with it. Instead of this, you can go for one more expensive, with digital output by firewire to avoid losing signal quallity from the mixer to the PC.

Mic ($100):
http://www.proaudiosuperstore.com/Shure-SM58S.html
The standard mic for any studio. It's used for both voice and intruments recording, every pro studio has some of them around.

what are you recording to? You have the front end of the signal path covered for little money but not the ass end.

[cthomer5000]

by the way, what's the big reason that everyone says "mac" for this stuff immediately?

[Hurst2112]

by the way, what's the big reason that everyone says "mac" for this stuff immediately?

cause it's stable as hell.

A mac with os 9.2 running pro tools mix 5.X is one of the most successful combos for digital recording ever created.

You can go with PC without too many problems. Don't think that I am trying to steer you in one direction. With the mac duo, you can run both windows and osx on the same computer. That is a great innovation.

[Icy]

what are you recording to? You have the front end of the signal path covered for little money but not the ass end.

Please read again what i wrote:


This should be more than enought (apart of the notebook and software)

[cthomer5000]

I think he was more looking for your suggestion on the receiving end of things...

[Hurst2112]

I think he was more looking for your suggestion on the receiving end of things...

touche! good one.

[Hurst2112]

Please read again what i wrote:

I read, but I would disagree on the 'more than enough' scenario. First of all, it's not as portable as an mbox, and it will have lesser mic pres. Not to mention the A/D conversion will be an issue.

I know where you are goin with your suggestions. If it was for simply recording live, I would suggest something like this. Yet, ct appears to want some abilities to multitrack with near studio quality. A baby Behringer wouldn't be near studio quality.

And I would say again, there are many, many combinations of things you could get. I would trust ebay with this subject. Buying used gear is great. You will save 33% without looking too hard. Just type in Digidesign Mbox or Presonus Firepod and you will see what I am talking about.

[Hurst2112]

Any updates CT?

[cthomer5000]

Any updates CT?

Well, this is more of a "doing this in a couple months" So i'll probably do some more posting in late August or September when i'm about ready to start assembling my setup. I think the end product is going to end up looking pretty close (or identical) to your suggestion though. The other pros i've dealt with on the subject are basically all saying the same thing.

[Hurst2112]

Well, this is more of a "doing this in a couple months" So i'll probably do some more posting in late August or September when i'm about ready to start assembling my setup. I think the end product is going to end up looking pretty close (or identical) to your suggestion though. The other pros i've dealt with on the subject are basically all saying the same thing.

I hope you aren't calling the guys at Guitar Center, 'pros'. hah :D

[rkmsuf]

You're aren't taping this are you?

No, never....never.

[Hurst2112]

I have been inspired to again, create a mobile recording rig. Mine will probably come together closer to October but it will contain most of what I told you to get (comp and mbox).

[Anthony]

I have been inspired to again, create a mobile recording rig. Mine will probably come together closer to October but it will contain most of what I told you to get (comp and mbox).

what, as a producer, would/could you do with a mobile rig? my friend and i play guitar and aside from using a crappy 4 track Tascam we never really got into anything high tech.

[Hurst2112]

what, as a producer, would/could you do with a mobile rig? my friend and i play guitar and aside from using a crappy 4 track Tascam we never really got into anything high tech.

I bring a client into a studio. They are paying $500-800 a day (12 hour day).

At the end of the recording, there are various editing things to take care of. Comping vocals or gtr tracks, editing drums (if to a click). Cleaning up crossfades and making ruff mixes. Auto-tuning vocals and/or bass.

A band COULD pay 50-80 dollars an hour for me to do it at the studio (where I would get my usual rate out of that) OR they can pay me half of that 50-80/hr to do it on my mobile rig. I can sit at home, or a coffee shop and spend a day doing edits and making ruff mixes. The band won't have to pay somebody to do that in the studio, they get ruffs of their stuff (prepare them for mixing), they know that everything will be ready to mix.

I made twice as much and they saved a crapload.

[Hurst2112]

dola:

not to mention, a mobile rig is great for producers to go to a perspective band's practice space and record demos. most bands have a means to record but they might not have pro tools.

I can go and work out a click track with them. I can create click and burn it to a cd for them from mobile rig. I will have a session file with the click ready to go when they start tracking basics in the studio.

I have a pro tools setup at home that I share with a friend. It's not portable and I have to split profits for what I do at 'the clubhouse'. Mobile is all mine.

[Anthony]

nice, man, thanks for the explanation. good luck w/ that

[cthomer5000]

I hope you aren't calling the guys at Guitar Center, 'pros'. hah :D
Lol, nah. Two head engineers of NY radio stations, and another assistant engineer at a satellite station who has the most home recording experience of the trio I've talked to in the real world. It was as if your words were coming out of his mouth, so it pretty much seems like the way to go.

I'll be sure to keep you posted on this stuff when I go to purchasing and then finally actually recording on it.

[JPhillips]

Hurst: I do a bunch of theatre sound design, but haven't ever broken into the band scene as you are describing. Is there a good market for what you do? I have the technical expertise from theatre work, but no contacts on the music side.

Also, I absolutely second your Protools recommendation. CT could do everything he wants to with ease.

[Hurst2112]

Lol, nah. Two head engineers of NY radio stations, and another assistant engineer at a satellite station who has the most home recording experience of the trio I've talked to in the real world. It was as if your words were coming out of his mouth, so it pretty much seems like the way to go.

I'll be sure to keep you posted on this stuff when I go to purchasing and then finally actually recording on it.

solid. looking forward to a recording dynasty report.

[cthomer5000]

solid. looking forward to a recording dynasty report.

I really should have been doing a dynasty on the whole podcast/radio show thing. If it eventually works out it would be pretty cool to have all those thoughts down from start to finish.

[Hurst2112]

Hurst: I do a bunch of theatre sound design, but haven't ever broken into the band scene as you are describing. Is there a good market for what you do? I have the technical expertise from theatre work, but no contacts on the music side.

Also, I absolutely second your Protools recommendation. CT could do everything he wants to with ease.

Good market? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!

:D

Seriously, are you talking recording and producing of bands?

It depends on where you live and the amount of talent and/or competition in said place.

I don't bust my ass to get gigs like I should but there are things out there for me.

A person would has never been in a recording situation would have to overcome a lot of hurdles. If you wanted it bad enough, there are opportunities out there. I wouldn't suggest thinking you can do it for a living. You will destroy your home life and become disgustingly poor in the process.

But, if you wish to do it, some things are worth it.

[Hurst2112]

dola:

since you have a theater background, you might want to consider offering to record live shows for bands. There is a niche market for that. Pretty decent money.

[JPhillips]

It certainly wouldn't be for a living. I'm really backing out of theatre sound to pursue directing, it was just a curiousity more than anything. I do very similar work to what you do, but I'm almost completely removed from the music world right now.

[cthomer5000]

Taking a closer look at the mbox 2, we're talking what, 2 inputs? At first glance I'm not sure this suits my needs. Here's our potential setup

Input 1 - Microphone 1 (essential)

Input 2 - Microphone 2 (essential)

Input 3 - Microhpone 3 (essential)

Input 4 - Soundboard [360 Systems Instant Replay] (essential)

Input 5 - CD Player/Generic Audio Input (mp3 player, whatever) (we could
probably work around this, so lets say "non-essential")

Input 6+ - Additional microphones (while the ability to have 4-5 mics live would be nice, this certainly qualifies as "non-esential"

So, am I missing something on the mbox being a good fit or are there some obvious work-arounds i'm missing?

[Hurst2112]

your first snag.

Digi stuff won't be an option for you then. It can be but it won't offer the portability you are looking for.

Here is a list of my next best suggestions...

http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Mark-of-the-Unicorn-Traveler-FireWire-Audio-Interface?sku=244780


I will investigate more, later.

[Hurst2112]

how much portability are you looking for? are you looking for something that is totally bus-powered? Or, are you willing to have to plug in either the computer or audio interface to an outlet?

[cthomer5000]

how much portability are you looking for? are you looking for something that is totally bus-powered? Or, are you willing to have to plug in either the computer or audio interface to an outlet?

I'd be perfectly willing to settle for having to find a power outlet. While total portability would be nice, I can't really imagine a setting in which I'd be setting up this rig to record in the middle of nowhere.

[Hurst2112]

then your options open up quite a bit.

even with bus power, your recording time would be less than your actual battery life. that's a lot of stuff for a computer to do unpowered.

ill investigate some OTHER options based on this bit of info.

[Anthony]

what exactly is the difference in roles between a producer and an engineer? you both tweak the knobs, right?

lol, that sounded way more sexual than i intended.

[Anthony]

you want to hear great production values?


listen to the right channel of the song "Torture Me", from RHCP, during the chorus. i love the song, but have recently started listening to all the harmonies that have been layered in the background of some of the songs off Stadium Arcadium. the harmony that is being sung - really amazing. doesn't overpower the music, it's just there to tweak the song's nipples a little bit and massage its genitals. what a great compliment to the song, wonderful harmony.

[Hurst2112]

what exactly is the difference in roles between a producer and an engineer? you both tweak the knobs, right?

lol, that sounded way more sexual than i intended.

An engineer can be both. A producer can be both.

An engineer is responsible for getting the best tones and sounds on tape. In the simplest form, that's all he has to do. In the mixing stage, he is the one that balances all the things and again, gets the 2 mix to sound the best it can be.

A producer's role is somewhat hard to explain. They are mostly in charge of helping the artist sound as good as they can...getting the most out of an artist and song. They help in pre production from time to time. They help write songs, maintain a schedule in the studio for the client that hired them.

As an engineer, I am usually a producer as well. If they don't hire me to produce, I still offer suggestions if they want. If something is out of tune, I tell them. If something doesn't fit a song, I might suggest that it doesnt. If the drummer is not playing as well as I think he can (or anybody for that matter) I tell them.

There have been times where I was just the engineer. I kept my mouth shut. That is when a producer is there helping. My job was to only hit record, use the right mics and gear.

Its a complicated thing to explain really. I produce all the time. People can't afford a producer most of the time. It's my name on the record too so I try to help as often as I can.

Right now, I am in pre production with a band. We are demo-ing songs for an album that is starting this fall. We have the luxury of recording in our basement studio with great gear so we are taking time. Essentially, we are recording and writing each song as a rough draft. We pick songs apart and rework them several times over. I help the drummer with his parts, offer suggestions on guitar parts, etc. In this role, I am a full fledged producer that also engineers. I am somewhat a memeber of the band without playing an instrument. I bitch at them when they aren't performing to a level I know they can, handle all the arguments between them, blah blah.

When it comes time to track the album, I will handle all the engineering. I will mix the album as well. So, I am playing both roles.

[Hurst2112]

you want to hear great production values?


listen to the right channel of the song "Torture Me", from RHCP, during the chorus. i love the song, but have recently started listening to all the harmonies that have been layered in the background of some of the songs off Stadium Arcadium. the harmony that is being sung - really amazing. doesn't overpower the music, it's just there to tweak the song's nipples a little bit and massage its genitals. what a great compliment to the song, wonderful harmony.

while I don't really like what Rubin has done to RHCP, I can apprciate things like what you are describing. Subtle things are what I love to do in tracking and mixing. There is always room for big ass gtrs and drums but 1 little gtr lick or vocal phrase 'hidden' in a track can work wonders.

[Anthony]

niiiiice. i'm jealous of you.

[Hurst2112]

niiiiice. i'm jealous of you.

jealous?! shit.

While I love my job to death, there are times when I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

I've destroyed 2 marriages, have gone way into debt, and ignored 'growing up'... all for the sake of music. I am learning balance now but it's not easy.

\m/