The Sports Guy picks an EPL team for all FM fans out there.

[SunDevil]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060719

[SirFozzie]

That's actually a really good article.. hopefully the horde that usually reads TSG won't shit on it.

[ISiddiqui]

Great Article on the EPL and their teams :D. Being a Magpies fan, I'm glad we got #3.

Best quote (from Arsenal's section):

Most Hated Rival: Tottenham Hotspur. Some call this the most heated rivalry in the EPL other than Newcastle against everybody.

LOL! :D

I think this augers well for soccer in the US. Perhaps its just a World Cup honeymoon, but more folks are talking about the beautiful game in the States... even The Sports Guy!

[cschex]

It was actually pretty good, though he got a bit carried away with the Arsenal=Red Sox parallel and seemed to have missed that they won the title in '98 and '02 as well as the undefeated '04 season. Can't believe he chose the damn Spurs, though.

[Coffee Warlord]

Great Article on the EPL and their teams :D. Being a Magpies fan, I'm glad we got #3.

I took great pride in him touting our role as the Raiders of the EPL. :)

[ISiddiqui]

It was actually pretty good, though he got a bit carried away with the Arsenal=Red Sox parallel and seemed to have missed that they won the title in '98 and '02 as well as the undefeated '04 season. Can't believe he chose the damn Spurs, though.

True, but they were horrid before Wenger's arrival, so it fits the Red Sox motif somewhat.

[cthomer5000]

Fuck, I'm totally upset he picked my team, i've come to hate this douchebag.

[Desnudo]

I'm glad he picked a team that should have some ups and downs since I'm sure there will be articles from time to time. If he'd picked Liverpool, it would have been pretty boring.

[Crapshoot]

It was actually pretty good, though he got a bit carried away with the Arsenal=Red Sox parallel and seemed to have missed that they won the title in '98 and '02 as well as the undefeated '04 season. Can't believe he chose the damn Spurs, though.

"".

I admit I feel a little strange sometimes rooting for Liverpool - I didn't watch football back when I was a kid because it wasn't available, and I'm not as well rooted in the history as many of the fans (I've learnt a fair amount though). Moreover, from what I know, many scousers don't take well to non-Liverpool fans, though I may be off base on this.

[Marc Vaughan]

I thought the article was very readable and interesting (even if I could nit-pick a fair few holes in it - not least that he failed to pick Brighton ;) ).

[ISiddiqui]

To be fair, Marc, he probably had no clue what a Hotspur was 2 weeks ago ;).

[Huckleberry]

He didn't pick my City boys, which makes me happy for the same reason cthomer is upset.

[SirFozzie]

Haytorz!

[Schmidty]

That's actually a really good article.

That is impossible, as it was written by Bill Simmons.*







* The above statement was not an attempt to troll. It is just a simple opinion, and should be treated as such.

[cthomer5000]

That is impossible, as it was written by Bill Simmons.*







* The above statement was not an attempt to troll. It is just a simple opinion, and should be treated as such.

I totally agree with you in principle, but this is a situation with his lack of deep knowledge on a situation actually is a strength. It really is a good piece, and I can't remember how many years it's been since i've really enjoyed an article of his.

[Schmidty]

I totally agree with you in principle, but this is a situation with his lack of deep knowledge on a situation actually is a strength. It really is a good piece, and I can't remember how many years it's been since i've really enjoyed an article of his.

Maybe I'll give it a chance. Maybe.

[Butter]

Someone needs to do a poll about how many Americans plan to follow the EPL this season. It really seems like it's grown quite a bit since Fox Soccer Channel's inception. I almost want to say that the EPL gets a bigger following than the MLS does, which is kinda sad. I'd be interested to see what kind of ratings FSC gets for live matches, and what kind of ratings ESPN gets for their Champions League matches.

[Desnudo]

"".

I admit I feel a little strange sometimes rooting for Liverpool - I didn't watch football back when I was a kid because it wasn't available, and I'm not as well rooted in the history as many of the fans (I've learnt a fair amount though). Moreover, from what I know, many scousers don't take well to non-Liverpool fans, though I may be off base on this.

I agree. Liverpool tends to give off a "locals only" vibe more than any team in the EPL I think. Like to root for them you either need to be born there, or your father was born there. Although since they are one of the larger clubs in the world, it obviously can't be the case. Probably more a legacy of the old times than anything.

[ISiddiqui]

Well the EPL does have a superior quality of play than the MLS while being very attacking. Italy's Serie A and Spain's La Liga probably have better talent than the EPL but Italy is very defensive minded and Spain plays at a slower pace.

[Havok]

dam good article

[Desnudo]

Well the EPL does have a superior quality of play than the MLS while being very attacking. Italy's Serie A and Spain's La Liga probably have better talent than the EPL but Italy is very defensive minded and Spain plays at a slower pace.

I remember being really excited when FSC got Serie A. That excitement lasted for the first 15 minutes of the first match. Even the AC Milan games are boring.

[Crapshoot]

Someone needs to do a poll about how many Americans plan to follow the EPL this season. It really seems like it's grown quite a bit since Fox Soccer Channel's inception. I almost want to say that the EPL gets a bigger following than the MLS does, which is kinda sad. I'd be interested to see what kind of ratings FSC gets for live matches, and what kind of ratings ESPN gets for their Champions League matches.

I have no doubt about this. For me personally, so much of what draws me to the EPL (the history, the level of play, the passion) is not there in the MLS. I recognize these things need time to develop, but I'm not willing to sacrifice my time towards it.

[Crapshoot]

I agree. Liverpool tends to give off a "locals only" vibe more than any team in the EPL I think. Like to root for them you either need to be born there, or your father was born there. Although since they are one of the larger clubs in the world, it obviously can't be the case. Probably more a legacy of the old times than anything.

Yeah, it's probably a small minority at this point. In some sense, that's partly what I admire.

[Klinglerware]

I find it hilarious that Osama was an Arsenal fan.

[Crapshoot]

I remember being really excited when FSC got Serie A. That excitement lasted for the first 15 minutes of the first match. Even the AC Milan games are boring.

Italian football is about putting 10 men behing the ball and having one guy try and unlock the defense - it gets immensly frustrating. Milan are the best of a bad lot IMO.

[ISiddiqui]

Who said anything about 'was' ;).

We have no proof he doesn't still root for them. The cave has to have satellite, right? ;)

[ice4277]

Someone needs to do a poll about how many Americans plan to follow the EPL this season. It really seems like it's grown quite a bit since Fox Soccer Channel's inception. I almost want to say that the EPL gets a bigger following than the MLS does, which is kinda sad. I'd be interested to see what kind of ratings FSC gets for live matches, and what kind of ratings ESPN gets for their Champions League matches.

I'm curious to see if ESPN will increase their CL coverage on ESPN/ESPN2. I don't even know if they are able to with Setanta having some of the rights.

[ISiddiqui]

ESPN's CL coverage last year was already pretty good. I don't think they'll show 2 games a week, but that's only because I think that's (the one other game) a seperate bid.

[SirFozzie]

BTW, they've added links to a cross-section of emails by the six so-called finalists :)

[Katon]

I totally agree with you in principle, but this is a situation with his lack of deep knowledge on a situation actually is a strength. It really is a good piece, and I can't remember how many years it's been since i've really enjoyed an article of his.

Eh. I found it more irritating than most of his articles, mostly because in this case I know enough to spot where he was overgeneralizing or just plain wrong (which I don't for basketball/football). Theo Walcott being the LeBron of soccer, for instance, or Chelsea having a rep for flaming out of the wrong cup.

Can't blame him for it, since the whole point is that he doesn't know soccer all that well, and detailed analysis isn't his thing in any sport, but it does get on my nerves.

[moriarty]

OK, someone needs to tell Bill that Tottenham aren't in the Champions League and he's going to miss out on half the fun of the new soccer season (shoulda picked Liverpool). I guess there's always the Uefa cup to whet his appetite.

Someone else needs to tell him about FM. He seems like the kind of guy that would absolutely get lost in a good FM dynasty managing the Spurs.

[tanglewood]

Note to Americans: Tottenham Hotspur are not 'The Spurs' they are simply 'Spurs'. Thank you.

Sorry, that just irritates me so much for some reason...

Edit: This also applies to Wolverhampton Wanderers, who are 'Wolves' not 'The Wolves' which I have seen used here too somehwat infrequently. Although that doesn't annoy me so much, as no-one cares about Wolves much anyway.

[Havok]

Note to Americans: Tottenham Hotspur are not 'The Spurs' they are simply 'Spurs'. Thank you.

Sorry, that just irritates me so much for some reason...

Edit: This also applies to Wolverhampton Wanderers, who are 'Wolves' not 'The Wolves' which I have seen used here too somehwat infrequently. Although that doesn't annoy me so much, as no-one cares about Wolves much anyway.

thats just wierd.....

The Redskins

The Yankee's

The Red Sox

and we can't say 'The Spurs' or 'The Wolves'?


stop nitpicking, just be happy some of us are actually watching your dam sport now ;) ;)

[Logan]

Note to Americans: Tottenham Hotspur are not 'The Spurs' they are simply 'Spurs'. Thank you.

Sorry, that just irritates me so much for some reason...

Edit: This also applies to Wolverhampton Wanderers, who are 'Wolves' not 'The Wolves' which I have seen used here too somehwat infrequently. Although that doesn't annoy me so much, as no-one cares about Wolves much anyway.

Sorry, but that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Aren't you people English? How could you not follow the simple rules of language?

[ThunderingHERD]

Does this disdain for definite articles extend to others areas? Like, would you say: "I'm going to go pick up kids and take them to park."

[Neuqua]

I should have FOFC help me decide what team to follow in the EPL this year. I've always been a fan but been following more locally here in the MLS. I know the general news and transactions that are going on in England but I don't have a rooting interest. I'm looking for that to change for next season.

Sound like an idea?

[cschex]

I should have FOFC help me decide what team to follow in the EPL this year. I've always been a fan but been following more locally here in the MLS. I know the general news and transactions that are going on in England but I don't have a rooting interest. I'm looking for that to change for next season.

Sound like an idea?

How about The Spurs? :)

[Desnudo]

Note to Americans: Tottenham Hotspur are not 'The Spurs' they are simply 'Spurs'. Thank you.

Sorry, that just irritates me so much for some reason...

Edit: This also applies to Wolverhampton Wanderers, who are 'Wolves' not 'The Wolves' which I have seen used here too somehwat infrequently. Although that doesn't annoy me so much, as no-one cares about Wolves much anyway.

The tanglewood has a decent point. I'm afraid you'll be thrown to the wolves though.

[BYU 14]

The tanglewood has a decent point.

Well played

[Joe]

Wikipedia is never wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C.

Tottenham Hotspur Football Club is a London football club. They play in the English Premier League. The club is also known as Spurs, The Spurs and Tottenham, while their own fans also often refer to them as the Lilywhites because of their traditional white shirts.

[Joe]

dola

I see the point about Wolves. It is a nickname for the city. We don't say The New York.

[cuervo72]

Do they also have a team just referred to as "Prom"?

[ThunderingHERD]

dola

I see the point about Wolves. It is a nickname for the city. We don't say The New York.

Or the Big Apple or the Windy City?

Besides, if it's a nickname for the city it should be treated as a singular noun. It's not:

Wolves were founder members of the Football League and before the outbreak of the Great War they had won the F.A Cup twice. But Wolves really established themselves as a top side under the management of Stan Cullis after the Second World War.

That just sounds bad for no good reason--there's just no excuse for not throwing a "the" in there. This is a convention that I will never, ever accept.

[tanglewood]

Or the Big Apple or the Windy City?

Besides, if it's a nickname for the city it should be treated as a singular noun. It's not:



That just sounds bad for no good reason--there's just no excuse for not throwing a "the" in there. This is a convention that I will never, ever accept.

The thing is you need to get out of the American [Placename] [Nickname] convention of sports teams, that doesn't exist in soccer (except in the MLS of course). Spurs is an abbreviation of Tottenham Hotspur, so you use it in the same way as you would if you used the whole name. You wouldn't say 'Here come the Tottenham'. A somewhat related example, you wouldn't say 'here come the KC' or 'Here come the Frisco' or whatever when referring to football teams by abbreviations. Wolves is a shortening of Wolverhampton Wanderers so works the same. FYI, any team which has United at the end is also refered to as 'United', there is no definite article there either.

Of course, when using a team's actual nickname, for example the Lillywhites or the Cockrels, which are a few of Spurs' nicknames, you do use the definite article.

Edit: For non-English references, no-one says 'the Spartak' or 'the AC' or 'the Real' or 'the Bayern'.

[cthomer5000]

dola

I see the point about Wolves. It is a nickname for the city. We don't say The New York.

Yeah, imagine Wolves as the equivelant of NYC. No one says "The NYC."

[Klinglerware]

Though NYC's official name is "The City of New York".

Go figure.

[molson]

A somewhat related example, you wouldn't say 'here come the KC' or 'Here come the Frisco' or whatever when referring to football teams by abbreviations.



But to use that Wikipedia entry above, no one would say "NYCs were founder members of the Football League", where one apparently would say "Wolves were founder members of the Football League"

If you're going to use a nickname (based on a city or not) as a plural noun, it makes no sense not to use an article (in American English).

[Klinglerware]

(in American English).

Ah, the crux of the matter--stylistic differences between British and American English. My favorite example would be "drug" vs "drugs": "He has a drug problem" (American) vs "He has a drugs problem" (British). Another one is "sport" vs "sports".

Perhaps the conclusion here is that British and American English are slightly different and call it a day...

[Fidatelo]

American English is teh suck.

[cthomer5000]

Or the Big Apple or the Windy City?

Besides, if it's a nickname for the city it should be treated as a singular noun. It's not:



That just sounds bad for no good reason--there's just no excuse for not throwing a "the" in there. This is a convention that I will never, ever accept.
I think you need to get the image of a wolf (the animal) out of your head. Wolves is short for Wolverhampton, a city. Think about it as if it was someones nickname. Let's say the person in question is Joe Wolverhampton, and for some reason you call him "Wolves" for short. You are certainly not going to call him the Wolves. You would simply call him "Wolves."

[cuervo72]

I think "Philly" is a good example of this.

[Passacaglia]

Yeah, imagine Wolves as the equivelant of NYC. No one says "The NYC."

But they do say "the ATL."

[ThunderingHERD]

I think you need to get the image of a wolf (the animal) out of your head. Wolves is short for Wolverhampton, a city. Think about it as if it was someones nickname. Let's say the person in question is Joe Wolverhampton, and for some reason you call him "Wolves" for short. You are certainly not going to call him the Wolves. You would simply call him "Wolves."

I would have no problem with that were Wolves not being used as a plural noun. If I were calling my buddy Wolves, I wouldn't say something like "Wolves are great guys," now would I?

If you're going to treat it as a plural then you have to throw an article in there.

[Chief Rum]

I would have no problem with that were Wolves not being used as a plural noun. If I were calling my buddy Wolves, I wouldn't say something like "Wolves are great guys," now would I?

If you're going to treat it as a plural then you have to throw an article in there.

In soccer terminology, squads/clubs are referred to in the plural. I don't know why this is, but it is.

"Arsenal are opening in a new stadium this year."

[Joe]

But they do say "the ATL."

who does?

[ISiddiqui]

THEY do

[cthomer5000]

I think "Philly" is a good example of this.

Yes, a perfect example. I was searching for a real life example and the brain just came up empty.

[Joe]

I believe you mean the philly

[Desnudo]

Feedback:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060721

Tottenham Hotspur's nickname is "Spurs," not "the Spurs." Nobody ever calls them "the Spurs." Unless you want to be a wanker. Along those same lines, the term "EPL" is never used. Only "Premier League."

Wigan coach Paul Jewell wrote in himself to say, "I do not wear a trenchcoat on the sidelines, more often than not I wear a warm-up jacket. Sometimes a suit. Cheers!"


I'm disapointed about the trenchcoat. I'd seen him in a tracksuit, but figured I'd just missed the trenchcoat games.

[Huckleberry]

In soccer terminology, squads/clubs are referred to in the plural. I don't know why this is, but it is.

"Arsenal are opening in a new stadium this year."

The British follow that format for all group nouns.

"The team are looking good this year." "Our group were shown around the place."

It's not a soccer thing. It's the fact that the English can't speak their own language. ;)

[Wolfpack]

The British follow that format for all group nouns.

"The team are looking good this year." "Our group were shown around the place."

It's not a soccer thing. It's the fact that the English can't speak their own language. ;)

What's weird is hearing American announcers follow the same such language style when they talk about soccer, but then talk in the American "singular" style when they talk about any other sport. Heck, it goes on here when people write up CM dynasties as compared to FOF/FBCB/etc.

[Huckleberry]

What's weird is hearing American announcers follow the same such language style when they talk about soccer, but then talk in the American "singular" style when they talk about any other sport. Heck, it goes on here when people write up CM dynasties as compared to FOF/FBCB/etc.

I agree completely. I just talk/write the way I always do.

[tanglewood]

The British follow that format for all group nouns.

"The team are looking good this year." "Our group were shown around the place."

It's not a soccer thing. It's the fact that the English can't speak their own language. ;)

Not entirely accurate.

Brits would say 'Arsenal are looking good this year', but 'The team is looking good this year'. As for the our group one, I'm not sure, I think it sounds correct both ways.

[Klinglerware]

What's weird is hearing American announcers follow the same such language style when they talk about soccer, but then talk in the American "singular" style when they talk about any other sport. Heck, it goes on here when people write up CM dynasties as compared to FOF/FBCB/etc.

In a somewhat related note, I find it strange how American announcers insist on using the term "nil" instead of "zero" or "nothing" etc, exclusively when they do soccer. Maybe soccer will be better accepted by the American sports fan if sportcasters just used American terminology when describing the sport. Saying "nil" instead of a more American term just contributes to the perceived exotic-ness of the sport.

[Desnudo]

If anything, people enjoy the British announcers a lot more than the American ones. It's a positive not a negative. Desnudo - One, Klinglerware - Nil.

[Klinglerware]

If anything, people enjoy the British announcers a lot more than the American ones. It's a positive not a negative. Desnudo - One, Klinglerware - Nil.

I was talking about the Stuart Scotts of the world. They would never use "nil" in any other context, so why should they do it for soccer?

[Desnudo]

I was talking about the Stuart Scotts of the world. They would never use "nil" in any other context, so why should they do it for soccer?

I don't watch Stuart Scott ever, so don't have to endure the pain. Desnudo -two, Klinglerware - nil.

[path12]

I was talking about the Stuart Scotts of the world. They would never use "nil" in any other context, so why should they do it for soccer?

Because they say "love" in tennis?

[Klinglerware]

Because they say "love" in tennis?

"Love" is a term specific to tennis. Nil is not specific to soccer, but a preferred British English term for "zero"...

[illinifan999]

What was the reason behind the 2 guys from newcastle fighting each other?

[SirFozzie]

They were getting shmucked by Villa 3-0, and Dyer didn't pass to Bowyer when Bowyer called for the ball saying he was open.. the two exhanged words, and then.. boom goes the dynamite.

[ISiddiqui]

To add some more spice to the affair, Dyer is black and Bowyer is known for racist remarks in the past, so you never know... ;)

[Jonathan Ezarik]

As a Leeds supporter, all I can say is Bowyer is a total ass and I'm glad he's gone. It really didn't surprise me when he was involved in the on pitch rumble, but I have to say it was funny (as long as it was happening to Newcastle).