Ping: GalCiv II Players

[SackAttack]

We got sort of a belated reviewable of this from Stardock in advance of the forthcoming expansion, and I've been futzing around with it.

It seems like the way it's balanced, building a military early means sacrificing civilian research, because with the races I've used, you start with no weapons capabilities whatsoever. Makes it tough to put up a "Keep Out, This Means You" fence around my fledgling empire.

Anybody got suggestions for anything I can do to achieve a better guns/butter balance?

Also, in the core of the empire, it seems like the early priority ought to be to get colonies on all the habitable planets so as not to give opposing cultures a foothold into your corner of space. Anybody else bother with the sub-class 10 planets just to prevent those toeholds?

[Shkspr]

Check your sensors to see what kind of ships the enemy is building (slugthrowers, beam weapons, missiles) and research only those military tech lines that allow you to counteract those ships. That way, when you build your fleet, you'll minimize the amount of research time you'll need to spend away from your growth plan, and maximize the effectiveness of each ship in your fleet.

[SackAttack]

Check your sensors to see what kind of ships the enemy is building (slugthrowers, beam weapons, missiles) and research only those military tech lines that allow you to counteract those ships. That way, when you build your fleet, you'll minimize the amount of research time you'll need to spend away from your growth plan, and maximize the effectiveness of each ship in your fleet.

I'm guessing by "check your sensors" that you mean clicking on the enemy's planets that I've discovered?

Also, are there any kind of planetary defenses one can build against ground invasion? I'm kind of at war with the Torians and, well, their troop transports move faster than mine do. :D

[klayman]

Also, in the core of the empire, it seems like the early priority ought to be to get colonies on all the habitable planets so as not to give opposing cultures a foothold into your corner of space. Anybody else bother with the sub-class 10 planets just to prevent those toeholds? Only on tight clusters, that way I can possibly prevent expansion at the far reaches of my empire by another race. At the core it might not matter, especially if you are playing with 7 or 8 races. But you might as well grab as many planets as you can. In loose and scattered though, it really becomes a moot point since it is way too easy to leap frog over an empire. The other strategy seems to be that in the opening solar system you let another race colonize the smaller planet, and you will eventually overrun it with influence.

[klayman]

I'm guessing by "check your sensors" that you mean clicking on the enemy's planets that I've discovered?

Also, are there any kind of planetary defenses one can build against ground invasion? I'm kind of at war with the Torians and, well, their troop transports move faster than mine do. :D

You can click on enemy ships to see their weapondry.

There are planetary defenses to be built, as well as several technologies that give your soildering a boost, which helps your defence (and attack :) )

[GabeRivers]

I find that those soldiering techs that Klayman mentioned can be very important for survival, particularly early on. First I go for the few early techs that give me a production boost and allow me to survey, then I research speed a little and get the initial missile tech. One missile fighter can fend off most enemy transport attacks, since most are not escorted early in the game.

To me, surveying is critical, particularly those $$ anomalies. It allows me to push colonization longer and harder than my economy would otherwise stand. So I build four or five fast survey ships as quickly as possible. The AI doesn't seem to do this, so you can gain a big edge re anomalies.

Also, some of those smaller planets carry some terrific bonuses, so I try not to ignore them -- although klayman is also correct that those buried inside your empire will often fall over time by way of influence.

[SackAttack]

I find that those soldiering techs that Klayman mentioned can be very important for survival, particularly early on. First I go for the few early techs that give me a production boost and allow me to survey, then I research speed a little and get the initial missile tech. One missile fighter can fend off most enemy transport attacks, since most are not escorted early in the game.

so maybe build some of these fighters, but instead of having them sentry, keep them under my control so I can see when an enemy transport is headed to a planet instead of getting surprised?

To me, surveying is critical, particularly those $$ anomalies. It allows me to push colonization longer and harder than my economy would otherwise stand. So I build four or five fast survey ships as quickly as possible. The AI doesn't seem to do this, so you can gain a big edge re anomalies.

I had noticed that. Only times I've seen another race go after an anomaly is if it was more or less in the vector they were already pursuing. Never seen one change paths to check an anomaly out.

Also, some of those smaller planets carry some terrific bonuses, so I try not to ignore them -- although klayman is also correct that those buried inside your empire will often fall over time by way of influence.

I'd imagine an influence starbase would help accelerate that?

[Eaglesfan27]

Influence starbases can be critical to winning that battle.

As far as the anomalies., I find that like Civ4, there can be quite a few different paths to victory. I generally don't go crazy trying to get anomalies. Personally, I prefer to have all resources focused on exploring the galaxy to attempt to locate the highest quality planets so that I can claim those first.

[SackAttack]

Influence starbases can be critical to winning that battle.

As far as the anomalies., I find that like Civ4, there can be quite a few different paths to victory. I generally don't go crazy trying to get anomalies. Personally, I prefer to have all resources focused on exploring the galaxy to attempt to locate the highest quality planets so that I can claim those first.

I got in a footrace with the Torians when I found a Class 26 planet near the fringes of my empire. Lost that footrace by one move when they managed to get inside my colony ship and reach the planet first. :(

[ausonny]

I'm usually the last to build any military at all, and as long as my borders are fairly uniform, meaning limiting the number of situations where another race and I are controlling planets in the same system, I don't have too much of a problem with people attacking me.

I only play on huge maps. I also use a custom race with maxed out research bonuses and use the technological party, so YMMV.

I research up to Impulse 3, then miniaturization, then sensors, then up the lab tree once or twice, then back to warp drive and more miniaturization to fit more engines. Warp V is a milestone for my race as the cost of engines drops by almost 50% from 18(?) to 10. Every planet with more than 2000 people (2M) is sending out the fastest colonizers they can, the rest constructors. I build 3 or so fast sensor ships of my own design, as the anomalies are VERY powerful and if you get most of them, the AI has a hard time catching up.

I think the biggest key in the first half of the game is speed. (I bet you already figured that out!)

When a race declares war it takes a few turns to actually do anything about it in most cases, and with technology that fast you can have custom defending ships up pretty quickly when necessary, and the anomalies will pay for it.

Also, are you upping the spending rates to 100 and the tax rate as far as you can?

edit - another thing that helps keep people from attacking me is I usually play "good" races. When I play evil, I get attacked much earlier.

[SackAttack]

I'm usually the last to build any military at all, and as long as my borders are fairly uniform, meaning limiting the number of situations where another race and I are controlling planets in the same system, I don't have too much of a problem with people attacking me.

Well, I've had two war issues. One was the Drengin attacking me because, well, that's what they do.

The other was a minor race that had routinely been giving me techs as random tribute begging me for help against one of the major races, so I agreed.

Quickly discovered that's not the best idea when the planets on your border with that race are minor colonies that can't build as quickly as your core worlds.

I only play on huge maps. I also use a custom race with maxed out research bonuses and use the technological party, so YMMV.

I've fiddled with different map sizes. I'm trying to find something where I can at least be marginally advanced militarily before I make contact with another race. It just bugs me when I make first contact with a race that's already way the hell down the military tree and we're just taking our first halting steps.

I research up to Impulse 3, then miniaturization, then sensors, then up the lab tree once or twice, then back to warp drive and more miniaturization to fit more engines. Warp V is a milestone for my race as the cost of engines drops by almost 50% from 18(?) to 10. Every planet with more than 2000 people (2M) is sending out the fastest colonizers they can, the rest constructors. I build 3 or so fast sensor ships of my own design, as the anomalies are VERY powerful and if you get most of them, the AI has a hard time catching up.

Yeah, what I've been doing is creating custom designs that basically pack as much firepower as I can into the tiny, small and medium hulls, as it takes forever to research up to large hulls, figuring that bigger firepower should compensate for relative lack of defense.

I've also tried customizing faster colony ships, which helps to a degree as well.

But it still feels like, look - you're a spacefaring race, so you at least know something about, say, ICBMs. You know there are other races out to eat you. You ought to be starting out with at least a rudimentary knowledge of military design.

Even in the Civ games, you can have primitive military units from the get-go, but you have to improve them over time if you want to stay competitive. This is one area I think GalCiv is lacking. You would think that offensive missile tech would be pretty adaptable to space warfare, even if mass drivers and optical warfare exceed our current grasp.

I think the biggest key in the first half of the game is speed. (I bet you already figured that out!)

Yeah, and I'm having a rough time balancing that with such offensive firepower as I can build into the small and tiny hulls initially. Miniaturization may be as big a key as speed there.

Also, are you upping the spending rates to 100 and the tax rate as far as you can?

Raising taxes doesn't cause a revolt? I know you don't have to worry as much about public opinion as an Imperial power, but it would seem like raising taxes too high would still cause an uprising.

[ausonny]

Raising taxes doesn't cause a revolt? I know you don't have to worry as much about public opinion as an Imperial power, but it would seem like raising taxes too high would still cause an uprising.


I try to keep my approval at 50. The real issue here is your population grows faster depending on morale, and at first you need all the people you can get. It's been changed since the initial release so I'm not sure about this but I believe the bonuses are at 75 and 100. So why don't I keep my morale 100? I probably should, especially since I get so many 2500 bc anomalies that I don't run out of money, pretty much ever. I also don't fast build unless I'm turning a profit, which is another good early goal (I'm just full of good advice, huh?). Get up the government and economic techs pretty early if you can.

I think most players might be surprised at how long I wait on military. I usually have the warp tech maxed out, miniaturization maxed out, government tech maxed out, economy tech maxed out, and medium ships researched. Then I go down the laser tree to laser5, although missile weapons will be my weapons of choice later on. Then I'll build my first ships.

Again though, I play good races, and that makes a huge difference. Also as I said I've never really played smaller maps, and I would imagine none of this would work. The AI usually seems to wait til it can't get more colonies by settling to get aggressive and since that happens much earlier on a small map, I would be hurting if i waited that long.

Your point about no early game warfare is a good one. I'm not sure what the reason for it is.