Why Is This School So Quick To Label Children As Disabled?

[duckman]

Tonight, my ex called me to let me know how a parent-teacher conference went. Basically, they have been trying to get Matthew labeled with a learning disability without any formal testing. We sent him to see a specialist (a neurologist who specializes in learning disabilities) and he thinks Matthew is gifted and not disabled.

During the conference, they have been trying to convince my ex to allow them to put him on a IEP without a formal diagnosis or any testing. They were pissed because they now have to give assessment tests to determine if he has any cognitive problems. I told her to stay the course and not let those bastards try to label him without doing any of these things first.

I feel blessed that we have people like the neurologist who will stand up to schools that try to label children because they don't fit their idea of what a "good" student is. I think it's deplorable that we even have to go through this nonsense to make sure he is not improperly labeled.

[panerd]

Not to insult you or your ex-wife, but as a teacher I think you are completly backwards with your generalization.

First of all the "bastards" are probably trying to help your kid but that is besides the point. In my experiance it is the parents who want their kids on the IEP's and the schools that try to advise them that it isn't neccessary. In just ten years I have gone from about 7-10 IEP's out of approx 150 kids to over 50. You are way off on this rant IMO.

[kruseman]

Not to insult you or your ex-wife, but as a teacher I think you are completly backwards with your generalization.

First of all the "bastards" are probably trying to help your kid but that is besides the point. In my experiance it is the parents who want their kids on the IEP's and the schools that try to advise them that it isn't neccessary. In just ten years I have gone from about 7-10 IEP's out of approx 150 kids to over 50. You are way off on this rant IMO.

but they should not be put on an IEP if they have not had an assessment yet. Someone has to refer them first, then they assess, then they decide what to do. If they think the child has a LD, they should be going about it in a different way.

[duckman]

Not to insult you or your ex-wife, but as a teacher I think you are completly backwards with your generalization.

First of all the "bastards" are probably trying to help your kid but that is besides the point. In my experiance it is the parents who want their kids on the IEP's and the schools that try to advise them that it isn't neccessary. In just ten years I have gone from about 7-10 IEP's out of approx 150 kids to over 50. You are way off on this rant IMO.

So they should just label kids without any formal testing to determine if they even have a disability? That is what they are trying to do here. I don't have a problem with it if they have done it properly. Instead, they want to skip the determination process and go straight to setting up a IEP without any clue of what is wrong. They tried to brow beat my ex into skipping the exams and recommendations of the neurologist so they can label him as learning disabled.

[WVUFAN]

Not to insult you or your ex-wife, but as a teacher I think you are completly backwards with your generalization.

First of all the "bastards" are probably trying to help your kid but that is besides the point. In my experiance it is the parents who want their kids on the IEP's and the schools that try to advise them that it isn't neccessary. In just ten years I have gone from about 7-10 IEP's out of approx 150 kids to over 50. You are way off on this rant IMO.

Why would trying to assess a potentially damaging label on a child without proper proof "helping"? It sounds like they're unwilling to spend the resources or time needed to properly assess the child.

If I was the parent, I would be upset that the school would be that zealous without proper proof.

[panerd]

but they should not be put on an IEP if they have not had an assessment yet. Someone has to refer them first, then they assess, then they decide what to do. If they think the child has a LD, they should be going about it in a different way.

Like I said, I am not really at odds with Duckman on his situation. But I take huge issue with the notion that these great doctors are battling the school systems to keep kids off of IEP's. Believe me this is not the case at all. I have sat through all kinds of meetings with lawyers and doctors pleading for their IEPs and 504s and have yet to see a meeting where the teachers are pushing for something the parents don't want. Maybe I am teaching in the bizarro world.

[panerd]

Why would trying to assess a potentially damaging label on a child without proper proof "helping"? It sounds like they're unwilling to spend the resources or time needed to properly assess the child.

If I was the parent, I would be upset that the school would be that zealous without proper proof.

Hey I am not arguing in favor of special education. I don't care much for it. In my opinion, 95% of our district's special education caseload is just a burden on our taxpayers. But I do believe that the purpose of the special education system is to get kids help. I don't think any teachers (however misguided they may be) try to label kids as special just to fuck with their lives.

[duckman]

Like I said, I am not really at odds with Duckman on his situation. But I take huge issue with the notion that these great doctors are battling the school systems to keep kids off of IEP's. Believe me this is not the case at all. I have sat through all kinds of meetings with lawyers and doctors pleading for their IEPs and 504s and have yet to see a meeting where the teachers are pushing for something the parents don't want. Maybe I am teaching in the bizarro world.

I want to clarify that I don't think that all schools are guilty of this, but this one is. They sound like they don't want to spend the money to assess because it is expensive to do.

I'm wanting to be like you and be a teacher. I've been studying to be one for a little over 2 years now. I don't want you to think that I don't appreciate what teachers do because I want to become one myself.

[panerd]

So they should just label kids without any formal testing to determine if they even have a disability? That is what they are trying to do here. I don't have a problem with it if they have done it properly. Instead, they want to skip the determination process and go straight to setting up a IEP without any clue of what is wrong. They tried to brow beat my ex into skipping the exams and recommendations of the neurologist so they can label him as learning disabled.

I think we are discussing two totally different things here, so I will give this thread a few minutes to get caught up. If what you describe is complete accurate than the teachers seem a little overealous and ignorant of the law. Where I took issue is not with your personal situation, but your assertion that educators wish to increase the number of special education students. Believe me I have never met a teacher that thinks more IEPs and government red tape is a good thing.

[kruseman]

I have seen parents take their kids out of a school because they wanted them on a IEP - it happens more than you think.

I know you were not arguing. I too don't think that schools are going to put kids on IEP for the hell of it. They are short on resources the way it is. If anything, like you say, they get looked over more often than not. I'm just saying that they are going about the situation wrong - even if they are right.

[duckman]

I think there is something wrong with Matthew, but it's not a learning disability. It's a discipline problem by my estimation. The kid thinks he's smarter than everyone else and tries to do things his way. I know this because he told me so. It rubs me and others the wrong way because he is not mature enough to determine what is best for him. Like today, he decided to not bring home his homework. Not because he can't do it, but because he didn't want his playtime disturbed by having to sit down and do what is assigned to him. He reads at a higher level than the kids in the class and has strengths in science, math, and history. He does good work when he wants to, but he'll get a bug up his butt and decide not do it when he doesn't feel like it.

[WVUFAN]

Hey I am not arguing in favor of special education. I don't care much for it. In my opinion, 95% of our district's special education caseload is just a burden on our taxpayers. But I do believe that the purpose of the special education system is to get kids help. I don't think any teachers (however misguided they may be) try to label kids as special just to fuck with their lives.

I didn't take that from your message at all. I actually agree with your generalization. My mom was a teacher for 30 years, so I know the kind of stuff they go through on a daily basis, especially with parents unwilling to admit their kids are the issue with things. I've also seen schools and teachers unwilling to do the steps to properly assess a child.

So, while most teachers are WAAAY underpaid and underappreciated, some bad apples can ruin the bunch.

[cougarfreak]

I want to clarify that I don't think that all schools are guilty of this, but this one is. They sound like they don't want to spend the money to assess because it is expensive to do.

I'm wanting to be like you and be a teacher. I've been studying to be one for a little over 2 years now. I don't want you to think that I don't appreciate what teachers do because I want to become one myself.

By putting the child on an IEP, they are committing themselves to alot more resources and money than any test would cost that would prove otherwise. I'm not arguing for putting any child on an IEP, but I think your reservations have merit, but believe me, they aren't saving money by offering to put kid on an IEP w/o the testing. I've been in education for 10+ years, and I can tell you, the number of kids on IEP's and 504's has gone through the freaking roof.

[Craptacular]

I think there is something wrong with Matthew, but it's not a learning disability. It's a discipline problem by my estimation. The kid thinks he's smarter than everyone else and tries to do things his way. I know this because he told me so. It rubs me and others the wrong way because he is not mature enough to determine what is best for him. Like today, he decided to not bring home his homework. Not because he can't do it, but because he didn't want his playtime disturbed by having to sit down and do what is assigned to him. He reads at a higher level than the kids in the class and has strengths in science, math, and history. He does good work when he wants to, but he'll get a bug up his butt and decide not do it when he doesn't feel like it.

Sounds like me ... except for the strength in history.

[ScottVib]

At least in my school, its normally the parents & teachers fighting for the child to stay identified, while the school administration pushes to de-identify students. The reason being, at least in my school's case, resources. Special education frequently takes extra resources to give the students the support they need. Exiting the student "saves" the district the extra expense, sometimes to the students detriment (IMO). In suburban districts near here, the parents often fight really hard to get their students identified (in part for the added time/resource benefits, which also carry over to standardized tests like the SAT).

There is normally a pretty detailed process on how a student is identified, a teacher or parent can request an assessment during a meeting, and then those tests have to be done, after that there is another meeting to address the results and the students initial eligibility for Special Education. If the student is eligible then the initial IEP would be developed, with annual reviews thereafter (and other meetings as needed), parents are supposed to be involved in each step along the way.

With the push to mainstreaming each class I teach (all regular ed) has between 3 and 12 special education students in it (and that doesn't count the students who've been exited). Coming into my room in most cases you wouldn't have a clue who was on an IEP and who wasn't (to be honest, I frequently forget who's regular ed and who's special ed). In fact each year some of my best students are my IEP students, in part because of the extra support they get and/or have received in the past, they are often better organized and have better "student skills" then my regular education students.

[duckman]

Okay, I just got back off the phone with my ex because I wanted some clarification about the meeting. It was the teacher that was pushing for Matthew being labeled as LD, but the school counselor was trying to explain to her that you can't just do that. However, both the counselor and teacher wanted to disregard the testing and place him on a IEP. I'm now even more confused than I was before I went off on this rant. Why are so quick to disregard the neurologist's request for assessment tests when even the counselor doesn't want to label him as LD?

[wade moore]

This thread intrigues me because I was coming here to start a thread about IEP's, Special Education, and some various impacts that I'm seeing on my Fiance who is a 2nd year Kindergarten teacher and what I've seen/heard in the last year and a half or so... I'll probably start that thread seperately, but it's definately from the opposite side of the fence here in many ways, but I want to stay on track with duckman.. anyway...

duck.. I have to think that you're not getting the whole story here... particularly with what you have discussed about your ex-wife in the past, I'm really believing that there is a HUGE piece to the story missing here. My main reason for saying this, above all else, is what cougar has mentioned. If a child goes on an IEP, the school is legally bound to provide special services for that child. I can almost guarantee you that those costs (particularly if this lasts for his entire public school career) would far outweigh the costs of the tests that you are discussing.

My guess here is that what the school wants to do is put your son on what my fiance's school district calls a "Child Study". What the Child Study is is a decision to DISCUSS whether the child needs an IEP. You do not need to run neurological tests, have aptitude tests, etc. done in order to get a Child Study started. However, the Child Study pulls in the child's teacher, the special ed teachers, the school psychologist, the parents, etc. etc. to evaluate the child. It involves at least an initial meeting where the evaluation plan is discussed, and then whatever more meetings are needed to determine if the child needs an IEP. This is where your testing, nuerological exam, etc. would come in.

(i now see that ScottVib said the same thing in much less words, anyway)...

i think you need to get more detailes from your ex-wife, I really don't think you're getting the whole story here.

[AZSpeechCoach]

I had a case a few years ago where a mother refused to have her son in SPED. The mother claimed that her son was picked on at his middle school because he was classified SPED, and when he entered high school, she refused to allow him to continue in the program. So, he wound up in my class where he proceeded to spend the first two months doing absolutely nothing. The counselors, teachers, and even the administration wanted this student tested, but Mom refused. Finally, in December, just before the end of what would have been a straight failing semester, the mother relented, and it wound up that this student needed more services than any mainstream classroom could handle. Frustrated the heck out of me. Not the same situation as you, duckman, but I just throught I'd share.

[MacroGuru]

I will say this, I have been diagnosed as ADHD, ran through the tests and everything, and this was as an adult.

I knew I had it growing up however, I didn't know what "it" was or rather why I grew bored with things so quickly. Not one teacher caught on nor did my mother....why was this? Because I aced my tests, just didn't do the homework....

My son is ADHD as well, it was a given as my wife is too, lets say our household is quite...impulsive at times. Sitting through some of his sessions with teachers and such at school, ways to help declutter his room, study area, and structure his time has been a boon AND I feel if I would have had this type of intervention at an earlier age, I honestly would have done a lot better in school, instead...I was just labeled by the teachers and faculty as a "bad" child.

[stevew]

If you can, you should try to talk to these people directly instead of getting your information from your ex-wife. Should be a much better picture of the whole situation.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Like most everybody else who has posted, something in this doesn't quite add up to me either, but my twisted mind seems to be headed down a different track. So, I'll throw out a few questions.

Is the school Matthew is in, by chance, a small one? How is the school's NCLBA status? Specifically, what's their status in the "students with special education needs" category?

It's probably obvious, but the oddball notion I'm wondering about is whether
the school might be looking to improve their stats by putting what amount to a few "ringers" in an NCLBA category.

I know that probably makes me sound ready to be fitted for a tinfoil hat, but since the situation doesn't seem to add up, I figured maybe the scenario might be something odd too.

My first thought was that this was something I used to see a lot where I grew up, an effort to get as many students as possible into various special ed programs because it was actually profitable for the school to do so (because they actually got more state/fed money for those designations than they had to spend fulfilling them) but AFAIK, with the advent of IEP's and more modern requirements for meeting special ed needs it actually costs more to add the labels than they receive for the slots, or at best it's a break even. So I basically looked further down the same path & thought about other benefits that could be derived from pushing for labeling.

[CraigSca]

I think there is something wrong with Matthew, but it's not a learning disability. It's a discipline problem by my estimation. The kid thinks he's smarter than everyone else and tries to do things his way. I know this because he told me so. It rubs me and others the wrong way because he is not mature enough to determine what is best for him. Like today, he decided to not bring home his homework. Not because he can't do it, but because he didn't want his playtime disturbed by having to sit down and do what is assigned to him. He reads at a higher level than the kids in the class and has strengths in science, math, and history. He does good work when he wants to, but he'll get a bug up his butt and decide not do it when he doesn't feel like it.

Wow - sounds a lot like my son (diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome - see my "The Joy of Parenting (or lack thereof)" thread somewhere around here). You say he's been to a neurologist - what does the neurologist say?

When he's in playtime, does he boss the other kids around?

[CraigSca]

Oh, and regarding IEPs, it's my experience that the school is dragged through one kicking and screaming. It's an additional cost for them that they don't want to pay, but by law they are required. It took a long time for us to get one, and we still fright (almost daily) to make sure that it's applied.

[wade moore]

Oh, and regarding IEPs, it's my experience that the school is dragged through one kicking and screaming. It's an additional cost for them that they don't want to pay, but by law they are required. It took a long time for us to get one, and we still fright (almost daily) to make sure that it's applied.

FWIW, the bolded part was the main crux of what I was going to (and still will) start a thread about. It's part of what makes me VERY reluctant to believe that duck is getting the full story here.

[Marc Vaughan]

Oh, and regarding IEPs, it's my experience that the school is dragged through one kicking and screaming. It's an additional cost for them that they don't want to pay, but by law they are required. It took a long time for us to get one, and we still fright (almost daily) to make sure that it's applied.
I don't know if this varies between state to state in America, but in England its normally the opposite because schools recieve grants if they have disadvantaged children in a school and as such some (and only some) schools will push to classify a child without real cause.

I've had this with both my sons, they were late speakers (as was I) but are of perfectly normal intelligence, but the nursery schools they attended insisted they had learning difficulties despite my attempting to explain that they were pretty bright in my opinion and that I also hadn't spoken until I was around 3 years old and so took a while to 'warm up' to the idea of speaking full sentences etc.

The most amusing of the two was with my eldest son where the school insisted he was deaf despite the fact that we got to the stage where we took him to a specialist who certified he wasn't .... ho hum, suffice to say he's now happily in a different school ;)

IMHO as with all professions and 'companies' there are good and bad schools and teachers everywhere .... just make sure your kids are in the good ones ;)

[Toddzilla]

Going to come down on the side of the schools and the IEP's here. My daughter Lesley has CP and is learning disabled. We are fortunate, however, to live in Fairfax County, Virginia which has possibly the best public school system in the country (evers single HS is in the top 500 nationally). The school system, her preschool in particular, has been fantastic with the IEP, getting the right specialists, and providing us with the services we need.

I think part of the problem is - in many cases - children who *need* these kind of services don't get them, and that is sad.

I'm sorry duckman that you see this as some sore of witch-hunt to get your child "labeled". That isn't - I should say *shouldn't be* - the intention. There are many gifted and talented kids who need special instruction for a myriad of very subtle reasons. No one wants to stamp "LD" on your child's head, they want to help them.

I, for one, would love for a school system to be "over zealous" in trying to identify and help kids who have speciual needs rather than be lacking and letting kids fall through the cracks.

[Samdari]

Hey I am not arguing in favor of special education. I don't care much for it. In my opinion, 95% of our district's special education caseload is just a burden on our taxpayers. But I do believe that the purpose of the special education system is to get kids help. I don't think any teachers (however misguided they may be) try to label kids as special just to fuck with their lives.

No, but I think many of them do it to get students they don't care for out of their classroom and into someone else's.

[duckman]

No, but I think many of them do it to get students they don't care for out of their classroom and into someone else's.
This is where I'm thinking too, but I'm quite sure if that is case either since I live 5 hours from the situation. The teacher he is with now doesn't like Matthew very much. If she can get him labeled with a LD then they can move him out of the classroom this year. All I'm asking for is that all the assessments are done.

[duckman]

Wow - sounds a lot like my son (diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome - see my "The Joy of Parenting (or lack thereof)" thread somewhere around here). You say he's been to a neurologist - what does the neurologist say?

When he's in playtime, does he boss the other kids around?

He avoids playtime generally to either read or do his homework so he doesn't have to do it at home. Yes, he does tend to get bossy with other kids, but that has to do with him being an only child for the 8 years. When he is with other kids, they make fun of him because they think he's "weird" because he's not sure about social signals. He sometimes talks well above their level.

The neurologist thinks that he is most likely gifted, but has anxiety (or very mild ADHD) and depression problems (because his mother can't stick to one husband or place for very long). He said he doesn't think that he has Asperper's Syndrome because he has strengths in more than one area. He mostly concerned about is the social deficiency, but thinks that can be corrected with behavioral therapy.

[CraigSca]

If she does't like him very much, you can get an IEP that will force him/her to teach your child in a way that will be most effective for your child. We have an IEP for my son and one of the reasons is so they will accommodate his unique circumstances.

IEPs don't necessarily mean the child is tossed in the special ed class.

Not sure where this came from, Duckman, but I see an IEP as a good thing and to take full advantage of it. As long as you both are fulltime advocates for your child, an IEP is just one of the tools parents can use to make sure their child gets educated in an environment that is best suited for him/her.

[CraigSca]

One thing our neurologist says, "Not all Aspies (short for Aspergers) are the same."

Your son sounds a lot like mine. He can't read social signals, he's gifted, he has a complete lack of patience for the other kids who can't do things as well as him, thinks homework and the schoolwork is boring and stupid, and is being treated for anxiety. Oh, and my son has strengths in more than one area as well (again, not all Aspies are the same).

Really, your son IS different - it's not shameful to admit. The IEP is meant to help make sure he gets the education he DESERVES - not classify your son as "handicapped".

[duckman]

If you can, you should try to talk to these people directly instead of getting your information from your ex-wife. Should be a much better picture of the whole situation.

I'm going to. The meeting was in the evening and so I wasn't able to contact until this morning. The school counselor is supposed to call back to talk to me about it.

[wade moore]

The neurologist thinks that he is most likely gifted, but has anxiety (or very mild ADHD) and depression problems (because his mother can't stick to one husband or place for very long). He said he doesn't think that he has Asperper's Syndrome because he has strengths in more than one area. He mostly concerned about is the social deficiency, but thinks that can be corrected with behavioral therapy.

*RED FLAG RED FLAG RED FLAG*

Ok. This statement throws up a huge red flag for me, particularly the first sentence.

By my understanding of the way IEP's work, if that first sentence is indeed true, your child should be on an IEP.

One thing you need to get past/understand is that being on an IEP is not like when we were in school and someone was "LD" or "ED".

For instance, my fiance has a child on an IEP who only gets removed from the classroom for speech therapy. Besides that, he is in the classroom the rest of the time. And this is a kid that has Autism. What the IEP does is allows her to understand what his needs are and in the classroom she has been given strategies by specialist that suit him.

She has another kid who is on an IEP due to ADHD. She never gets pulled out for ANYTHING, but again, has specific strategies from specialist for my fiance, the teacher.

Then she has another that has Autism that manifests itself in a way that she has extreme outbursts, disrupts the classroom, and cannot stay focused and sit in a classroom environment without someone their keeping her under control. This child often has a Special Ed aide in the room (and probably will eventually have a 1-on-1 aide full time). Often when the aide is not in there, the child is in the Special Ed room getting help from them outside of the large classroom environment.

This stretches all spectrums. It really sounds like (no offense intended, it's just that you're hearing this second hand) that you have not had all of this explained to you and gotten the full, proper story and explanation of how these things work.


One last thing, fwiw... someone else mentioned this, but there are periodic evaluations that can result in removing a child from an IEP if it is not necessary. I know there was a Kindergartner last year that was "so bad" when the year started that they had a 1-on-1 aide for him (he has Autism). Now in 1st grade, he does not have one and merely gets some special instruction sometime. The hope of course, that eventually he won't need any of that.

[wade moore]

This is only a small bit, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualized_Education_Program seems to have some good starter information. The very last part seems pretty important to have when y ou speak to anyone at the school...


Acceptance/Amendments of an IEP

An IEP must be accepted and signed by a parent or guardian before any of the outlined services may begin. The IEP is never set in stone; any member of the team may call a meeting at any time to edit the IEP. Many things may be added or subtracted and the parent/guardian must again accept and sign any amendments in order for them to take effect. Parents/guardians need not sign any paper work when it is initially proposed. They have 30 calendar days to take the paper work home for their consideration.

[Eaglesfan27]

duck.. I have to think that you're not getting the whole story here... particularly with what you have discussed about your ex-wife in the past, I'm really believing that there is a HUGE piece to the story missing here. My main reason for saying this, above all else, is what cougar has mentioned. If a child goes on an IEP, the school is legally bound to provide special services for that child. I can almost guarantee you that those costs (particularly if this lasts for his entire public school career) would far outweigh the costs of the tests that you are discussing.

My guess here is that what the school wants to do is put your son on what my fiance's school district calls a "Child Study". What the Child Study is is a decision to DISCUSS whether the child needs an IEP. You do not need to run neurological tests, have aptitude tests, etc. done in order to get a Child Study started. However, the Child Study pulls in the child's teacher, the special ed teachers, the school psychologist, the parents, etc. etc. to evaluate the child. It involves at least an initial meeting where the evaluation plan is discussed, and then whatever more meetings are needed to determine if the child needs an IEP. This is where your testing, nuerological exam, etc. would come in.

(i now see that ScottVib said the same thing in much less words, anyway)...

i think you need to get more detailes from your ex-wife, I really don't think you're getting the whole story here.


Agree with everything said here. I can't imagine the school pushing for an IEP without any significant evaluation process. I think the teacher is pushing to start the evaluation process most likely. For that, you should be praising her. It seems to me like there are plenty of teachers who are overwhelmed, overworked, and don't want to push for these types of tests when it may really be in the student's best interests.

[duckman]

Agree with everything said here. I can't imagine the school pushing for an IEP without any significant evaluation process. I think the teacher is pushing to start the evaluation process most likely. For that, you should be praising her. It seems to me like there are plenty of teachers who are overwhelmed, overworked, and don't want to push for these types of tests when it may really be in the student's best interests.

They want to skip the tests, not have any done. They want to go straight to an IEP.

[Eaglesfan27]

They want to skip the tests, not have any done. They want to go straight to an IEP.

You've talked to them directly, or are getting this from your ex?

[duckman]

You've talked to them directly, or are getting this from your ex?

I'm trying to get a hold of someone that has an idea about what is going on, but they are being reluctant with giving out any information.

[wade moore]

I'm trying to get a hold of someone that has an idea about what is going on, but they are being reluctant with giving out any information.

Do they not have permission to give you information? I know this can be tricky when parents are split, but I think most schools have a policy where the custodial parent just needs to give permission?

[duckman]

Do they not have permission to give you information? I know this can be tricky when parents are split, but I think most schools have a policy where the custodial parent just needs to give permission?

I have permission because the judge order her to give it. They just don't like to give information over the phone which I can understand since they can't verify who I am. They are sending me information about the meetings to me, but I don't know how helpful it will be to tell you the truth.

[wade moore]

I have permission because the judge order her to give it. They just don't like to give information over the phone which I can understand since they can't verify who I am. They are sending me information about the meetings to me, but I don't know how helpful it will be to tell you the truth.

There HAS to be a way to verify. I think I would probably psuh this harder. I understand the need for security, but for parents in your situation there has to be a way to verify your identity.

[CraigSca]

Is there any word about what they want to implement in the IEP? You make it sound like an IEP is a permanent "your kid is handicapped" stamp (as judged by the subject). If so, you are way off.

Heck, the IEP could state that they want to work on his social issues and they want to provide that therapy in-house.

[CraigSca]

Oh, and from my limited scope of what's going on - it almost sounds like your ex is calling you and giving you half-assed information to stir the pot.

Who exactly used the term handicapped - you or her?

[duckman]

There HAS to be a way to verify. I think I would probably psuh this harder. I understand the need for security, but for parents in your situation there has to be a way to verify your identity.

Nothing except driving 5 hours to his school and talking to someone in person. Unfortunately, privacy laws block parents who live outside the area from getting information about their kids.

[wade moore]

Oh, and from my limited scope of what's going on - it almost sounds like your ex is calling you and giving you half-assed information to stir the pot.

Somewhat what I was trying to say earlier.

I pretty much see it as this or from previous statements that duckman has made that she may just truely not understand what is going on.

[wade moore]

Nothing except driving 5 hours to his school and talking to someone in person. Unfortunately, privacy laws block parents who live outside the area from getting information about their kids.

I don't think I'd buy that explanation. I'm pretty confidant this has to be inaccurate. Maybe that's what they're saying, but I would think if you push things, say to the principal or whatever, that there is some accomadation for this.

[Eaglesfan27]

Nothing except driving 5 hours to his school and talking to someone in person. Unfortunately, privacy laws block parents who live outside the area from getting information about their kids.


I deal with those same type of privacy laws in my work..

I can't even confirm or deny a kid is a patient if a parent calls from another state until I see written confirmation that they have the right to this information.

However, what I've done is tell the parent in question, I can't confirm or deny that your child is a client here, but if you want to fax legal documentation from the court, here is my fax number. You might call them and see if you can get a fax number to the office of someone in charge, and fax them the court order showing them you have the right to this information.

[duckman]

Is there any word about what they want to implement in the IEP? You make it sound like an IEP is a permanent "your kid is handicapped" stamp (as judged by the subject). If so, you are way off.

Heck, the IEP could state that they want to work on his social issues and they want to provide that therapy in-house.

I'm not willing to place him on one until I know for a fact what is his actual problem(s) is. They have thrown out ADHD, Asperger's Syndrome, autism hoping something will stick. All I'm asking for is for them to do all the assessments before placing him on an IEP. He could very well have a learning disability, but I'm not going to have him incorrectly labeled until everything is completed.

[duckman]

I don't think I'd buy that explanation. I'm pretty confidant this has to be inaccurate. Maybe that's what they're saying, but I would think if you push things, say to the principal or whatever, that there is some accomadation for this.

I could threaten them with everything under the sun and they can't give me a damn thing. If I lived in the district, I would most likely have to go to the school itself to get any information. They simply cannot give confidental information over the phone.

[duckman]

Oh, and from my limited scope of what's going on - it almost sounds like your ex is calling you and giving you half-assed information to stir the pot.

Who exactly used the term handicapped - you or her?

That's my fault there. I was just reading over one of the amendments to IDEA and they changed "handicapped" to "disabled." I was still using the old term because I was studying for an exam in my special education class and had not gotten to the amendment when I started the thread. My bad.

[wade moore]

I could threaten them with everything under the sun and they can't give me a damn thing. If I lived in the district, I would most likely have to go to the school itself to get any information. They simply cannot give confidental information over the phone.

I'd ask for this policy in writing. It's nothing against you, I just don't believe that a policy like this can practically exist.

[wade moore]

What state is he in again? I wouldn't mind trying to do some internet digging to see if I can find any policies or whatever.. I'm a bit bored at the moment..

[JonInMiddleGA]

Agree with everything said here. I can't imagine the school pushing for an IEP without any significant evaluation process.

I can, simply because I've seen it happen.

It isn't remotely as common as the opposite scenario by any stretch of the imagination, but under certain circumstances it can happen.

In this particular odd case, the IEP was strongly preferred by the school administration instead of the parent's & independent evaluators preferred solution to the particular situation. And that's in spite of the fact that the IEP (theoretically) cost the school more to implement (in reality, the proposed IEP cost them the same as the other option or as doing nothing).

[duckman]

What state is he in again? I wouldn't mind trying to do some internet digging to see if I can find any policies or whatever.. I'm a bit bored at the moment..

Kansas.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm pretty confidant this has to be inaccurate.

I have no idea what the real local policy is where this is happening, but I can tell you without hesitation that it is definitely a realistic possibility.

[wade moore]

I have no idea what the real local policy is where this is happening, but I can tell you without hesitation that it is definitely a realistic possibility.

If that's true, it's just crazy imo. I work in a field where I deal with things involving national security and there are ways to varify someone and get them information.

[wade moore]

If I'm butting in too much, let me know...

You may want to check this out http://www.kckps.org/parents/fas/parentzone/effective_advocate.html

Ignore all of the BS Q&A, but at the bottom it shows a phone number for the "Family Advocate System" when you are concerned about these kinds of things. They might be able to help you?

[JonInMiddleGA]

If that's true, it's just crazy imo.

Now that we can agree on ;)

[wade moore]

Now that we can agree on ;)

Haha... maybe the community I live in and where my fiance teaches plays a factor (for instance: They can still talk about santa claus, make christmas trees, and have easter egg hunts) in why it seems so odd to me...

Like I said, I understand the need for privacy. That's good. But there needs to be a means by which to verify for situations JUST LIKE THIS. If I can have Joe Blow authorized to come take my kid out of school, you'd think I can have their father call from out of state to discuss his education.

Alright, i better stop before i sound more and more like you :eek:

[stevew]

My mom was telling me the other day that something like 8-10 of the 14 kids in her classroom are now on IEP's. While she doesn't have a problem with the idea of the things per se, she will definitely be happy when she retires at the end of the year and doesn't have to deal with the mountains of extra paperwork.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Duckman,

Are you sure the school wasn't suggesting a 504 plan? There is a difference between a 504 plan and an IEP. Sometimes even teachers don't know the difference and lump them together in conversation.

A 504 plan doesn't require a formal evaluation. It is less formal than an IEP. It is often used with kids that are having trouble handling certain aspects of school for a wide range of reasons (drug addiction, physical/emotional disability, injury, ADD, excessive absences, etc.).

From what you've said about the conversations, it sounds like the school would like to establish a 504 plan for your child. These can often be helpful and don't necessarily have to involve labeling your child. They also aren't by nature permanent plans; a student can overcome the issue that is causing the problem at school, then the student is taken off the 504 plan.

[duckman]

Duckman,

Are you sure the school wasn't suggesting a 504 plan?

I won't know until I get a hold of the meeting notes.

[duckman]

My ex is an idiot. There is no other way to explain it.

I just got off the phone with the school psychologist and she told me what went on in the meeting. She did say that they want to work on the social problems, but were not prepared to put him on an IEP until all the testing was done. She's in agreement with the neurologist that he is most likely gifted because what she observed in the classroom the past few weeks. However, there is the problem of him staying on task during the class period and not wanting to do his homework when he should. She is not even sure what services are needed because she needs the testing results before making a decision.

So basically, either my ex cannot comprehend what is being said to her ,or they are backtracking because I'm getting involved. Since the ex is that special kind of idiot, I'm going to go on the psych's explanation of the events.

To make sure this doesn't happen again, they are going to set up a teleconference so I can take part in future meetings once the results from the IQ tests and such come back.

[wade moore]

My ex is an idiot. There is no other way to explain it.

I just got off the phone with the school psychologist and she told me what went on in the meeting. She did say that they want to work on the social problems, but were not prepared to put him on an IEP until all the testing was done. She's in agreement with the neurologist that he is most likely gifted because what she observed in the classroom the past few weeks. However, there is the problem of him staying on task during the class period and not wanting to do his homework when he should. She is not even sure what services are needed because she needs the testing results before making a decision.

So basically, either my ex cannot comprehend what is being said to her ,or they are backtracking because I'm getting involved. Since the ex is that special kind of idiot, I'm going to go on the psych's explanation of the events.

To make sure this doesn't happen again, they are going to set up a teleconference so I can take part in future meetings once the results from the IQ tests and such come back.

Great news all around! Glad to hear that things are much less serious than originally thought. Good luck in getting his work habits improved!

[Eaglesfan27]

Now, this makes much more sense. Glad to hear that the school is now sharing info with you.

[duckman]

Now, this makes much more sense. Glad to hear that the school is now sharing info with you.

It was strange actually because she called me today after the head of Special Services told me that I couldn't get any information over the phone. However, she told me everything that was explained to the ex. I'm curious as to why they gave me the information after be told something different several hours ago.

[wade moore]

It was strange actually because she called me today after the head of Special Services told me that I couldn't get any information over the phone. However, she told me everything that was explained to the ex. I'm curious as to why they gave me the information after be told something different several hours ago.

Whatever the reason for the previous answers/explanations etc you were getting, the "true" story definately sits much better with me than what was going on originally ;).

[Eaglesfan27]

It was strange actually because she called me today after the head of Special Services told me that I couldn't get any information over the phone. However, she told me everything that was explained to the ex. I'm curious as to why they gave me the information after be told something different several hours ago.


Maybe your ex went in there and signed a consent to call your number and give you info?

[duckman]

Whatever the reason for the previous answers/explanations etc you were getting, the "true" story definately sits much better with me than what was going on originally ;).

What I think happened based off of what I heard on both sides was that the teacher jumped the gun on the IEP stuff in front of the ex and the school psych shut her down. The ex just happened to leave that little part out when she told me.

[duckman]

Maybe your ex went in there and signed a consent to call your number and give you info?

It's possible, but I don't think so only because she doesn't knows about me snooping around because I didn't want interference while I was trying find out what actually happened that night. Unless the school contacted her about signing a information release after speaking with me?

[Eaglesfan27]

It's possible, but I don't think so only because she doesn't knows about me snooping around because I didn't want interference while I was trying find out what actually happened that night. Unless the school contacted her about signing a information release after speaking with me?


It's possible. If a parent from another area of the state or another state calls my office, it is our standard procedure to call the guardian of record and inform them of the call from the outside source and have them come in and sign a consent if they want us to talk to the outside parent.


Anyway, I'm glad that they are talking to you for whatever reason now and you are getting the correct info.

[wade moore]

Anyway, I'm glad that they are talking to you for whatever reason now and you are getting the correct info.

Exactly. I brushed over trying to figure out what happened because I'm just happy it got resolved.

[molson]

However, there is the problem of him staying on task during the class period and not wanting to do his homework when he should.

I'm so out of touch if a kid not wanting to his homework or pay attention in school is now reason for concern.

[stevew]

My ex is an idiot. There is no other way to explain it.



That's probably the least suprising news ever. :)

Glad to see that you were able to get accurate information. I dunno what I'd do if my kids were a state away with a woman I didn't like so much anymore.