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Raiders Army
09-21-2006, 07:12 AM
Tuesday will be the pre-release.

SEPTEMBER 21, 2006
There you have it. Tuesday. Now you understand that this is a special deal, right? You will only be paying US$20 for HM3 instead of US$30 like the rest of the world later this year (in November or December). Because of this special deal, the "trial version" will only last two days, maybe three. So if you're not interested in paying for the pre-release you probably shouldn't bother downloading it.

Scroll down to the JULY 28, 2006 entry and look for PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY and then please read that carefully.

Tuesday. At one minute after midnight U.S. Central Standard Time. So Monday night, I guess.

See you then.
HMdesigner



***************************************




SEPTEMBER 12, 2006
Well ... still some problems I'm not happy with and that's stopping me from announcing the Pre-Release. The AI for the computer studios wreaks havoc on the game system at the highest Difficulty Level. I'm still trying to work that out. But other than that, I'm good to go. I want to say I'll pre-release next week sometime, but don't hold me to it! I expect some errors to show up AFTER you get your hands on it, but before that I want it to be the best it CAN be. And there are some errors in the HM Talent section of the game that allows you to create your own Talent Files. I need to make sure both HM Talent and HM Source work well so you don't lose the changes you make! I don't know that those have been tested well enough yet, but we're working on it.

Thanks again for your patience. It's no longer years or months or weeks ... it's days away now.
Carey



***************************************



SEPTEMBER 1, 2006
Hollywood Mogul 3 is finished.

Now it's just tweaking and adjusting, and looking for any remaining bugs. Then it's all yours.

I am most grateful to Eldritch009 for the hundreds of hours he put in debugging and play-testing HM3. And my thanks to the other testers, as well.

And thank YOU for your patience, your suggestions, and your membership here on the Message Board. I've enjoyed it all.

Good Luck At The Box Office.
Carey


***************************************


AUGUST 30, 2006
Sorry, had to do it. The pre-release of HM3 is delayed another few weeks.

There are just too many things left to "tweak" before I feel comfortable letting you see it. HM3 is hugely complex and changing one thing often effects other things greatly, especially in the box office results algorithm (which is now more than 1200 lines of code itself). So I'm not happy with it. And I made a change to the Talent Auto-Cast routine that started crashing the game which I BELIEVE I've corrected, but the testers haven't seen it yet, so I don't konw for sure.

In addition there's a problem with shooting two sequels back-to-back if you decide to kill off (or get rid of) a character from sequel 1 and hire someone new for that role slot in sequel 2 it screws up the Production Scheduling routine for some reason, and it's driving me crazy. The original design was not set up for these multiple shoots, and this is proving difficult to solve elegantly.

Also, at the Hollywood Mogul difficulty level (Level 5) the Studio AI can take a bit of time as all the computer studios do their thing at 5 times the Level 1 amount of things they do. See, I can't even write sentences that make sense anymore. So the optimization of that code is proving inelegant, as well, and I'm not sure I can really do anything about it, since in some game months, if you are playing at Level 5 the five computer studios will purchase, cast, and select release dates for 30 or more movies. Although the release calendar is REALLY COOL to see after that, as movies are staggered out for release up to two and a half years down the road. But still all that casting has to be done by them, and pre-production schedules have to be moved around as they try to find a slot when their ideal cast is all available to work; and that all takes computer cycles and time. So I may have to just live with it. And you will have to live with it also. Sorry about that.

So right now, let's shoot for the last day of summer: September 20, 2006.

Sorry about the delay.




AUGUST 21, 2006
After a week of screwing around, I've decided NO TRILOGY ....you CANNOT shoot all three movies at the same time. The game design is just not set up for that kind of thing. I cannot come up with an elegant solution to this problem. Sorry.


AUGUST 15, 2006
The ability to create and shoot a Trilogy at one time is NOT in the game yet, and may not make it into the Pre-Release of HM3. The problem I'm having is WHERE in the game to gather those sources and designate them as a Trilogy. It's proving to be very ugly.

The Studio AI is still being tweaked. The AI studio's ability to analyze Marketing Partnership Bid Requests is driving me crazy.

When the game ends you can print out all of the DailyFlix newspaper headlines, although this creates an enormous file, which I'm deciding how best to handle.

On the plus side, the Talent Hire / Production Start Date system works beautifully; you can hire a talent that is booked for months in advance simply by changing your production start date. All that works great. Finally. So if the talent you want is working for the next 22 months, don't worry, you can still get them.

The Box Office Results algorithm is more than 1,300 lines of code, and it's still being tweaked. DVD/Video sales still have a tendency to go crazy on me. There's so many genres, and each has to be looked at not individually but close to that. It's complicated. And complex. And I sometimes get a brain cramp. By the way, the Box Office Results are multiplied by 6 minus the Difficulty Level. So if you're playing at New In Town with a Difficulty Level of 1 then the Box Office Results are multiplied by 5 (6 - 1 = 5). If you're playing at the Hollywood Mogul Level (5) then the Box Office Results are multiplied by 1 (6 - 5 = 1). That will test your skill. Oh, and the days of the $6 Billion Dollar worldwide gross are over. Sorry.

So, with the continued dedication of Eldritch009, I say still: Summer 2006.


AUGUST 6, 2006
The ability to shoot 2 sequels at once is in the game now, and it's pretty cool, if I do say so myself. I'm really happy with how it turned out. As soon as that is debugged I'll be adding the ability to make a Trilogy all at once.


JULY 28, 2006
The Hiring fiasco is almost over thanks to Eldritch's never waning dedication to testing HM3. I couldn't release this without him; I can't believe the hours he puts in on this game. Thanks, Eldritch.

Okay, so if all goes as planned, and it probably won't, here's how it's going to happen:

PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY

Sometime in August there will be a Pre-Release of HM3 to anyone who is a Member of this Message Board. By then, Eldritch and I will be satisfied that there are no bugs that we are aware of.

BUT there will most likely still be bugs we DO NOT know about. The game may still crash sometimes. There will be a Bug Report Forum on the NEW Message Board and a protocol for logging any bugs you find. Those bugs will be fixed as soon as I can fix them, and a new .exe made available to everyone who has purchased the Pre-Release version of HM3 as soon as possible. Those bug fix patch exe's will be free, as they have always been with Hollywood Mogul.

The Pre-Release will cost US$20, which is US$9.99 less than the price it will be when it is released worldwide. Once the game is released worldwide you will already own HM3, and be entitled to all of the rights of anyone who pays full price.

SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE
If you purchased HM2 on or after Oct 1, 2004 you are entitled to pay only US$10 for HM3 when it is released worldwide. This is a deal I made so that the revenue stream for HM2 would not dry up as the HM3 schedule kept being pushed farther and farther away. That deal is a contract and of course I am honoring it. BUT if you want the Pre-Release version you have to pay US$20 just like everyone else. AND there will be NO REFUND of US$10 once the game is released worldwide. If you bought HM2 on or after Oct 1, 2004, and want to pay US$10 you have to wait for the worldwide release sometime later this year. If you purchase the Pre-Release version for US$20 and insist on a refund or cancel your credit card payment your purchase will be considered FRAUD and treated that way. Sorry to sound so harsh, but I've gotten a lot of emails I haven't liked very much. If you are entitled to pay US$10 that's all I want you to pay, you just have to wait for the worldwide release of HM3.

HM3 PRE-RELEASE
So that's where we're at. Weeks away now. Maybe into September. I'm doing the best I can. It's been a long haul and to tell you the truth, I'm exhausted. There are times when I can't stand this game anymore. And then there's Eldritch cheering me on and cheering me up. I've put everything else out of my life the last four months, taken no other work, this is all I do night and day. If you're worried about not having the funds, put a US$20 bill under your mattress for safe-keeping. Then when HM3 is Pre-Released you can put that 20 in the bank and order with your credit or debit card. Just a few more weeks, now. Feel better?

JULY 22, 2006
With the Hiring Talent fiasco still looming large in my future, I've been finalizing Test Screening. In HM3 it's a bit more complex and flexible, and you can make specific edits (i.e. Edit For Drama, Edit For Comedy, etc). But I've been testing the play-balance, and I think the days of 99% are all but over. The good news is that you can choose an edit version so if Edit #4 tested better than Edit #8 you can release Edit #4.

I realize you don't know what I'm talking about regarding the Hiring Talent fiasco. Basically I rewrote 7 huge routines and the game exploded in every direction, so they all have to be rewritten again. I've been putting it off because I'm so frustrated I can't stand the site of those routines any more.


JULY 15, 2006

The code rewrite for Hiring Talent is almost complete. What IS complete is being tested now. What remains to be written is the ability to shoot 2 sequels to a movie at once (a la "Pirates"), and also the ability to shoot a Trilogy all at once (a la LoTR). I hope to have that complete in the next two days.

This talent re-code has really improved the game and the game play, I think. I'm also really embarrassed that this design didn't occur to me 3 years ago when I started coding HM3 in earnest. It wasn't until adding the code for Sequel Contract terms created problems with the original Talent Hiring architecture, that I took a long look at the design and thought it could be improved.

But it's also put me about two weeks behind schedule.

The Studio AI is not yet in. It was once, but I took it out so we could isolate bugs to the "HM2 version of HM3." So that's going to take some time.

HM3 is very complex. To code, to debug, and often to fix those bugs.

All the problems are of my own making, obviously, and the testers are doing an EXCELLENT JOB of making this game safe to play.

Edited by: HMdesigner at: 9/21/06 4:17 am

http://p068.ezboard.com/fhollywoodmogulsfrm13.showMessage?topicID=1004.topic

stevew
09-21-2006, 07:29 AM
I'm somewhat interested in this, and may buy it eventually.

Although I suppose I'm not "elite" enough to be included in this test. Wake me up when it's available to the plebs.

:)

Pumpy Tudors
09-21-2006, 07:44 AM
Although I've never stated it here, I really don't agree when people call themselves "paying beta testers" when they buy a game upon release and it's buggy. In many cases, the developer has made the game as bug-free as possible and is not selling the game just to get additional testers. It just happens that paying customers find bugs that the testers didn't catch. I know that some people would disagree with me on this, but that's not really what this post is about.

Frankly, this HM3 situation does look like a developer trying to get people to pay to test his game. Now, if Carey (the HM3 developer) is saying that up front, fine. He's giving this story about how he's tried to eliminate all the bugs, but he says that there might be more bugs. That's understandable. If this "pre-release" build is so solid, though, why would you only sell it to a particular group of people? How does this benefit him except to ensure that the "worldwide release" has all these bugs already identified?

To me, this looks like he's saying "Pay $20 now to test the game, or pay $30 in two months to get the completely working version." If that's his strategy, more power to him. He's suggesting that he's doing this pre-release as a favor to his loyal customers, though, and given how wishy-washy this guy is, I don't trust him a bit on that point. This really isn't a favor to anybody except his wallet.

Barkeep49
09-21-2006, 07:55 AM
Pumpy:

I don't think he's actually doing his wallet a favor. The people who have registered on the bulletin board are among the most likely to buy a game. By offering them a 33% sale he's in fact losing revenue on nearly every purchase as those people would almost for sure have bought the game anyway at full price. In order for this to be good for his wallet out of every 3 sales he makes 1 of them would need to be a sale he'd otherwise not have made. I don't think that's likely.

Pumpy Tudors
09-21-2006, 08:06 AM
Pumpy:

I don't think he's actually doing his wallet a favor. The people who have registered on the bulletin board are among the most likely to buy a game. By offering them a 33% sale he's in fact losing revenue on nearly every purchase as those people would almost for sure have bought the game anyway at full price. In order for this to be good for his wallet out of every 3 sales he makes 1 of them would need to be a sale he'd otherwise not have made. I don't think that's likely.
I see where you're coming from, and it does make sense. There's one thing that gets me about the whole deal, though: It looks like he's afraid of doing a "worldwide release" of a buggy computer game. That's a noble idea in itself, but he's making sure to collect his $20 from a whole bunch of people to make sure that the game gets those bugs fixed. It's just all very peculiar to me.

1. He limits the pre-release to people who registered for his board before a certain date. To me, that says that these are the people most likely to "overlook" bugs as they're playing. They got two or three months of additional hype after he closed the pre-release registration period. They just want to play.

2. He's doing the worldwide release in two or three months. If it were a week or two, it would look more like a favor to the loyal customers. Two or three months just happens to be enough time to get all those bugs squashed so new customers won't think that he's a bad programmer.

Those are the two sticking points with me. He wants to look good for the customers who don't know his games. That makes sense. It just seems like he doesn't care how he looks to the ones who do know his games, and he made sure that it's only those people who are able to buy the pre-release version. If this were a guy I knew nothing about, I probably wouldn't be so critical. I've watched the HM message boards for years, though, and Carey's attitude seriously rubs me the wrong way sometimes. Like I said, he's been awfully wishy-washy on things in the past, and he's been downright rude to customers on his board before. I just don't trust him. If the game is good, though, I'll still buy it. I just don't like the way he sometimes handles things, and it gives me a bad vibe to see him doing this pre-release stuff.

Flasch186
09-21-2006, 08:27 AM
im not sure i would buy a 3 day trial anyways, but having to pay to beta test is pretty scansalous IMO, although, like Pumpy said, at least he's being honest about it, as opposed to EA.

Pumpy Tudors
09-21-2006, 08:31 AM
im not sure i would buy a 3 day trial anyways, but having to pay to beta test is pretty scansalous IMO, although, like Pumpy said, at least he's being honest about it, as opposed to EA.
Well, in a way, he's being honest about it. He's kinda making his strategy clear (if I understand his strategy correctly). My point is that I don't think he's being sincere about his motives. I really don't think he's doing the pre-release people as much of a favor as he claims.

Barkeep49
09-21-2006, 08:42 AM
Pumpy I think you make a good point about the idea of paying to be beta testers. However, and I think I'm done being a Carey apologist after this, one could say that since these people were going to buy the game anyway he is really paying THEM $10 in order to betatest the game. But after thinking over what you're saying I'd have to agree that the whole thing is a little fishy.

JonInMiddleGA
09-21-2006, 08:49 AM
I don't think he's actually doing his wallet a favor.


Just hypothetical but he could still be doing his wallet a favor if he has cash flow issues.

Bee
09-21-2006, 09:50 AM
I have no problems with this at all. It seems to me just about everyone benefits from this. He's getting cash upfront, the hardcore fans are getting a chance to play the game early, and the end customers will most likely benefit from additional beta testing from a larger group. His motives don't really matter to me, the quality of the game does. I can't imagine this is going to hurt the development of the game and it might help.

Abe Sargent
09-21-2006, 09:53 AM
I like it because:

A). He's up front and anyone who is not comfortable certainly doesn;t have to participate.

B). They aren't real playtesters who have to do the same thing over and over in an attempt to break it, they are just early players.

C). He's a one man company and I can understand his reluctance to grand release something until he's made sure it works properly.

Fighter of Foo
09-21-2006, 12:28 PM
Just hypothetical but he could still be doing his wallet a favor if he has cash flow issues.

Bingo.

Doubly true if the "full" release date isn't for another few months.

Schmidty
09-21-2006, 02:38 PM
im not sure i would buy a 3 day trial anyways, but having to pay to beta test is pretty scansalous IMO, although, like Pumpy said, at least he's being honest about it, as opposed to EA.

How can it be "scansalous" if he's saying exactly what's going on? If a consumer makes a choice to buy something, knowing that the product isn't finished or tuned, then it is that person's own fault if they aren't happy.

It's a personal responsibility issue, not a scandal.

Flasch186
09-21-2006, 02:46 PM
because it is my opinion that products, no matter what they are, when delivered to the consumer should be bug free or as bug free as humanly possible. If business erodes their need to deliver finished products then eventually the slippery slope would lend creedence to the idea that one will always be a beta tester when buying a product. Now perhaps that isnt what we're talking about here and the fact that he is being open about it certainly lends some ethical backbone to what he is doing but in the grand scheme of things, having to pay to be a beta tester instead of getting paid to be a beta tester is counter-intuitive to the idea of being a consumer.

Now the alternate side of the coin would say, well then show me with your dollar by boycotting companies that do this. Well, I do, as best I can. When I shop I try to do research to find out the most reliable product(s) and best values.

With HM3, this perhaps isnt a grand case of this, and I actually applaud the fact that he is a one man show, doing the best he can. When looked at in a vaccuum, its no big deal. Its scandalous because, in the bigger picture, suppliers need to produce finished products for consumers. At the worst end of the spectrum unfinished products in the marketplace cause deaths, injuries, and the like....on this end of the spectrum its no big deal. I was just pointing out the scandalousness is inherint to the entire pay to test program(s)....



but its just my opinion :)

Deattribution
09-21-2006, 03:23 PM
I never quite understood how he plans on enforcing who buys the game and who doesn't, short of sending an email to every member who 'qualifies' or doing some sort of hands on release which sounds like a bad idea.

This was also something that kind of irritated me about his approach, dates would be given and he'd have NO idea how he was going to pre-release, release, or how much it was going to cost yet he'd still act as if the release date given for 3 days later was still plausible (only to tell you the day of the date that it wasn't going to happen, and this would happen very regularly).

None the less, HM2 even with it's flaws was still one of my favorite games so I'm curious to see how this one turns out.

Fighter of Foo
09-21-2006, 04:06 PM
because it is my opinion that products, no matter what they are, when delivered to the consumer should be bug free or as bug free as humanly possible. If business erodes their need to deliver finished products then eventually the slippery slope would lend creedence to the idea that one will always be a beta tester when buying a product. Now perhaps that isnt what we're talking about here and the fact that he is being open about it certainly lends some ethical backbone to what he is doing but in the grand scheme of things, having to pay to be a beta tester instead of getting paid to be a beta tester is counter-intuitive to the idea of being a consumer.



For any new product, it's the same process, only more noticable for software versus standard consumer products. If companies waited until their products were bug or defect free they'd never sell anything. The first batch of Ipods were horrible to cite a recent example. For a startup or small business, it's impossible to release an "acceptable" first version/copy/edition of anything and still make money. You get something out the door, the people who really want it (assuming you have some) will buy whatever it is, and then you work your ass off to fix what's broken, but at least you have $$$ coming in versus zero otherwise.


Trying to avoid business-speak, but this describes things close to perfectly: http://www.quickmba.com/marketing/product/lifecycle/

Just substitute increasing for maintaining quality and releasing expansion packs and games during the decline.

Hope this makes sense.

Joe Canadian
09-21-2006, 05:17 PM
I assumed he was going to do the pre-release through a private forum on the boards... but they've apparently started using new forums and have only 15 registered users.

GrantDawg
09-21-2006, 05:30 PM
Stupid mother-f. I'd buy it to test it if he needs it, but it won't let me.

Raiders Army
09-21-2006, 05:56 PM
I assumed he was going to do the pre-release through a private forum on the boards... but they've apparently started using new forums and have only 15 registered users.

You were right. The boards were the HM ezboard, not the new one on the main Hollywood Mogul website.

Pumpy Tudors
09-21-2006, 06:27 PM
This was also something that kind of irritated me about his approach, dates would be given and he'd have NO idea how he was going to pre-release, release, or how much it was going to cost yet he'd still act as if the release date given for 3 days later was still plausible (only to tell you the day of the date that it wasn't going to happen, and this would happen very regularly).
Yes, this was among the things that made me call him "wishy-washy" twice in this thread already.

Joe Canadian
09-21-2006, 06:34 PM
You were right. The boards were the HM ezboard, not the new one on the main Hollywood Mogul website.

So how does one test the game, if it's only for people that registered on the forums pre-July?

Deattribution
09-21-2006, 06:38 PM
I assumed he was going to do the pre-release through a private forum on the boards... but they've apparently started using new forums and have only 15 registered users.


Even if that were the case, there'd still seem to be nothing stopping someone from distributing the 3 day trial.

Izulde
09-21-2006, 06:39 PM
So how does one test the game, if it's only for people that registered on the forums pre-July?

We apparently will receive email notification.

Abe Sargent
09-22-2006, 03:10 PM
We apparently will receive email notification.

Besides you and me, is there anyone else on FOFC who is in for the pre-release trial version?

Raiders Army
09-22-2006, 03:26 PM
I am in, but I probably won't get it since I qualify for the $10 game for the worldwide release and I spent quite a bit of money lately on 360 games.

hoosierdude
09-22-2006, 03:31 PM
I think I am, but no go on the pre release purchase. My money is tied up till next month. :(

Coop
09-22-2006, 03:32 PM
I'm in it.. I might get it

Cuckoo
09-22-2006, 03:57 PM
It appears he has changed the policy. The pre-release is now open to all.

Cuckoo
09-23-2006, 01:04 PM
Okay, I need to see if I'm understanding this correctly. If you buy the pre-release version for $20, do you own the full version? Or do you only own a trial version that's good for 3 days, then get the full version once it goes public?

I'm hearing this talk of the "trial version" but not sure if that's the same as the pre-release or what.

Someone spell it out for me. :)

Pumpy Tudors
09-23-2006, 01:43 PM
Where's the word that he changed the policy and is allowing anyone to preorder?

Deattribution
09-23-2006, 01:45 PM
If you buy the 'pre-release' you own the full game, youre just getting it in a potentially less stable condition, any patches before release and after will work. It's suppose to come with a 2 or 3 day trial to see whether you want to purchase it or not.

Although it doesn't seem like it is open for everyone considering what the forums say. One of the testers was saying 'everyone will be eligible' but HMdesigner has this up there...

Tuesday morning at 12:01 a.m. U.S. Central Standard Time (one minute after midnight Monday night, in other words) the Pre-Release of Hollywood Mogul 3 will be available for anyone who is a member of this Message Board.

Around that time, most of the other forums on THIS Message Board will no longer be available for posts.

Any HM3 posts should be made at the new HM3 Message Board located here: hollywood-mogul.com/vbull/forums/

It's been a long time coming, and I'm very grateful for your patience.

Good luck at the box office!

HMdesigner

Cuckoo
09-23-2006, 03:39 PM
Here (http://p068.ezboard.com/fhollywoodmogulsfrm13.showMessage?topicID=1061.topic)'s the thread:

I've received enough emails that I've changed my mind ...

The HM3 Pre-Release will be available to ANYONE who is a member of this Message Board.

So, in other words, he has taken off the "before June" or whatever restriction. If you're a member of the message board, you can purchase it.

Thanks for the explanation Deattribution. That's what I was hoping it was.