Grad School

[DaddyTorgo]

So as I just said in the "History Reading Project" thread, I'm VERY seriously considering going back for grad school (Masters and probably a PhD also) in History. Concentration TBD still (Classics, or American history being the two clear frontrunners).

I'm not as much concerned about THAT part of it (although advice there is appreciated) but more with the general process...GRE's...Financial Aid, Student Loans, all that stuff.

It just seems like that all is so much to wrap my head around, I guess I'm hoping that someone that has gone through it recently can help simplify it for me, give me a checklist of things to think about, or worry about, or whatever.

[caspanky]

Have you thought about what school you'd go to? I would contact the counseling department there and I'm sure they'd be happy to get you all the information you need, and help you through it. That's what they're there for. Good luck!

[DaddyTorgo]

well what school kinda depends on whether i decide to do Classics or American history or what. I was just hoping for some more general advice like "worry about the GRE's before you worry about the financial stuff" or vice versa.

[Klinglerware]

Figure out why you want to go to grad school--an arts & science program can be arduous, especially if you intend on entering a Ph.D. program. If you are going to live in poverty for several years, it had better be for a damn good reason (and yes, "for the love it" is a legitimate reason).

If you clearly want to go the Ph.D. route, have some idea of what you would like to concentrate in and research the programs that might be a good match. Also, identify professors (particularly, ones with tenure) in that department who might be a good match for your potential research interests. It will be tough sledding if you don't have a faculty advocate in your program.

If you want to do more generalist work, or if you want to explore your options, an M.A. program is a good way to do it. Also, a terminal M.A. program is a good way to prove yourself if you are thinking about an elite Ph.D. program but don't have the undergraduate grades or background. But, keep in mind that you are much less likely to receive funding as a Master's-only student. So, if you know what you want, it is in your interest to apply to a Ph.D. program directly.

Other advice? Off the top of my head--yes GRE's are important, but professor recommendations are also very influential, especially if you have studied with someone well known in the field.

[King of New York]

What Klinglerware said, plus...

1) To do graduate work in Classics, especially a PhD program, your language skills had better be damned good: Latin, Greek, French, and German, just for starters. French or German you might be able to pick up in graduate school, but not easily.

2) As for financial aid, it's pretty much all merit based. For the MA degree, any sort of financial aid is hard to come by--with luck, the school might pick up a chunk of your tuition and throw a couple of thousand bucks your way, but you're gonna need some other form of employment, or need a spouse who can support you. For the PhD, the best students get their tuition paid for, plus an annual stipend of maybe $14,000-$16,000 per year; some Ivies have stipends in the low 20s. You'll need to do some teaching in return for that money, probably as a Teaching Assistant. Some PhD programs will forbid you to do any sort of outside work to supplement that stipend--they want all of your time and energy. Pay attention to how many years the stipend lasts. It should last for at least five years--remember, if you can finish graduate school in history or classics in six years, you are fast. (Often, you need to get outside support for that final year, or apply for some university-wide competitive fellowship.)

3) I would not recommend borrowing any substantial sums of money to get a graduate degree in history or classics. Maybe, if you are close to the end and you need to make it through that final year, you can borrow, but the modest salary you will make if you manage to land a teaching position--assuming that that's what you want to do after you get the degree--will make repaying a substantial loan very difficult.

A checklist would look like this:
- Summer before you apply: contact the profs who are going to write letters of recommendation for you to give them a heads up. If you've been out of school for a while, offer to send them some your written work so they can address your writing skills.

- Fall: take GRE examination, fill out your applications (the first ones will be due on Dec. 1, I'd guess). A lot of the applications are electronic now.

- You'll hear back in February/March: first you'll hear if you get in, and then, shortly after, you'll hear if you get any financial support.

[Izulde]

If a MA is a terminal degree, does funding become easier?

I'm asking because I'm thinking of going for an MA in Creative Writing and as far as I know there's no PhD programs in it. :D

[biological warrior]

I have also been contemplating Grad School but:

1. Am strapped for Cash.
2. UNLV offers nothing really in terms of Hist masters ... limited number of classes (some classes such as the Renaissance et ala. offered 1x q 3-4 years because the teachers HAVE to teach other classes), and lecturers.
2B. I'd love to Master in US Military policy, but UNLV doesnt offer one, I'm willing to go to anothr Univ. which offers it but refer to #1.
3. The itch to commission as a 2LT.

[Samdari]

Don't go for a Ph.D. unless your lifes passion is scholarly research. That is really all the doing of intense scholarly research involved in getting a Ph.D. prepares you to do. If you want to be a college professor, then you will spend your life doing that, and need the Ph.D. There are other pure research labs/think tanks, etc. but they tend to pull people from the ranks of accomplished professors. To truly take advantage of a Ph.D. you need to be doing that type of research in your profession, so don't go through all the bullshit (and I can tell you from experience, it the most bullshit with the least reward) unless you love doing that type of thing.

And if you want to get a Masters, get a professional job and have someone pay for it.

[King of New York]

If a MA is a terminal degree, does funding become easier?

I'm asking because I'm thinking of going for an MA in Creative Writing and as far as I know there's no PhD programs in it. :D

I don't think that getting funding for an MA is any easier even if the MA is the terminal degree in the field. However, Samdari makes a good suggestion: one good way to pick up an MA degree is to find an employer who is willing to pay for it as part of your professional development. I know someone who did that with a Master's in writing--it took a while to get the degree because she had to do it at night, one or two classes at a time, but at the end of three or four years, she had her degree from a good school without having paid a penny toward it.

[Thomkal]

I went to Grad School for a Masters in Social Science and ended up taking a lot of history courses. My #1 bit of advice to you is that if you don't love to read history, don't pursue a graduate degree. Note I said love, not just like. You will be required to read so many histories your head will spin. You will likely be taking a class in Historiography, which in my case at least, we had to read 10-12 books during the course of the class. And they weren't short ones either. :) Oh and love to write as well. You will be required to do a lot of writing, including depending on the school you go to, a written thesis. If you hated doing papers in undergraduate college, graduate school is not for you. Thesis writing will consume you body, mind, and soul, so be prepared. :) And I'm sure it only gets more intense at the PH.D level.

2-Go to your local library/bookstore and get graduate college guides. There should be some devoted specially to history graduate programs, but those may be harder to find. Please remember that some of the information in them might be obsolete, but they still give a good look into each program. Be sure to pick up a book on how to write a good graduate admissions essay.

3-GRE. There are a ton of good GRE books out there. Thankfully for you, there isn't a history Subject exam. Unfortunately for you, the test looks like it is now 4 hours instead of 2 and a half. Ick. :) You will have seperate tests in verbal, math, essay writing, etc during the test. Definitely do some practice tests. Some schools may not even require the GRE since it has little to do with history, so check with those schools you are interested in.

4-Definitely try to get a graduate assistantship. You may not be able to get one right away as there are a limited number and incoming students may be last on the list there. You get to form a closer bond with a professor(s), and gives you your first teaching experience if you've had none and plan on being a professor once you get your degree. Of course it helps to pay the bills. :)

5-College Admission departments should have people who can help you through the admission/preparation process. Check with your local college even if you aren't planning to apply to that one if you are feeling overwhelmed. They have plenty of experience with overwhelmed students. :)

Good luck in your quest for higher education.

[Klinglerware]

If a MA is a terminal degree, does funding become easier?

I'm asking because I'm thinking of going for an MA in Creative Writing and as far as I know there's no PhD programs in it. :D

I'm under the impression that funding might be a little easier for Creative Writing MA/MFA programs compared to other Master's Only programs because of what you said--it is the terminal degree for that discipline.

But you should research your schools, some have more financial resources than others.

[NoMyths]

If a MA is a terminal degree, does funding become easier?

I'm asking because I'm thinking of going for an MA in Creative Writing and as far as I know there's no PhD programs in it. :D

I did an MFA in Creative Writing, and everyone in my program was funded for the three years via tuition waivers as well as teaching assistantships, which at the time were not very much money.

As with the other advice, don't go for an MFA unless you love writing, are very good at it (they're not looking for people to train, they're looking for people who can already play ball) and can handle (and listen to) criticism. There will be no money afterwards.

[Klinglerware]

I agree with the other posters in that you have to have both the passion for the subject and the discipline to undertake a research program, potentially having to serve other masters (your advisor, your students, etc) while trying to do your own work. If you are contemplating a Ph.D., make sure academic research is really what you want to do--this is what you will be trained to do.

If you do decide on a graduate program (whether it is an Master's or Ph.D.), good luck. You do get a tremendous feeling of accomplishment when you finish.

[Izulde]

Thanks for the replies, guys. :)

I figured as much, NoMyths. The one problem I have is I'm not certain how good I really am. I'd be going into a prose fiction program, because I have neither the talent nor the inclination to write poetry.

But I suppose I'll just have to keep working on a portfolio, apply to different schools that attract my interest and go from there. :)

[NoMyths]

Thanks for the replies, guys. :)

I figured as much, NoMyths. The one problem I have is I'm not certain how good I really am. I'd be going into a prose fiction program, because I have neither the talent nor the inclination to write poetry.

But I suppose I'll just have to keep working on a portfolio, apply to different schools that attract my interest and go from there. :)
The program is more or less the same in fiction and poetry -- excepting the workshops, you'll be in the same classes with the same folks (there were seven of us accepted my year). The big question I always ask prospective MFAers is this: do you read a lot of good contemporary work? Because if you don't, you're probably not writing it either, and that's going to take a lot of work to overcome.

But yes, your plan of action sounds good.

[NEUSociology]

I just started a PHD program at Northeastern in Sociology this fall. With Northeastern I got lucky in a number of ways. First off, they accept the majority of students directly into their PHD program with only a BA. At some schools, namely Boston College, they tend to accept applicants with only a BA into their Masters program and then there can be a reapplication process to get into the PHD program. My choice was between BC and Northeastern and it came down to funding. Northeastern funds almost all first year students fully. I have full tuition remission plus a stipend of $14,000. I return I am a Teaching Assistant which is supposed to be 20 hours a week of work but really ends up being 10. BC offered me no funding and they tend not to fund any MA students.

I guess the point of the above is to do your research, talk to current students, and learn all you can about how funding works. Most funding decisions are made after admission decisions. You will probably hear about admissions in late march and funding sometime in April/May.

I believe the GRE is changing its format in October so I do not know much about the new test. There a plenty of good books out there to help you prepare.

Most importantly, make yourself known to the schools you are applying to. Most likely there will be no formal interview but definitely try and meet with the department head as well as professors you would like to work with. Really try and flesch out your interests as best as you can and find professors whose work matched with those interests. Even if your interests change once you get started showing you have an idea of what you want to study will make you much more interesting as an applicant.

Were you thinking of applying this fall?

[DaddyTorgo]

well in answer to what seems to be everyone's major piece of advice:

I do LOVE LOVE LOVE reading+writing history. Frankly it's one of the few things in life that I really LOVE. Not just like, not just "hey that's something to do." But in the "hey what i really ought to be doing is studying about British military tactics during the French and Indian War" or "hey i want to research and write about the foreign policy of the CSA," or "hey i wanna look at the social conditions of late Republican Rome and how they contributed to the political climate that resulted in the rise of the Empire." I walk around with thesis-ideas ping-ponging around in my brain. I AM an academic. I sit there in normal conversations and use big, stuffy words.

I have no doubt that I not only can do the work, but would enjoy the work, would enjoy the resulting career as an academic, etc.

[AENeuman]

unfortunately this field does not always reward the earnest and passionate. i had several friends in my ma program with a 4.0 plus, ta, and good rec's, and still not even get past the first round for social science phd programs. You need at least 2 other languages to go on to phd. also, your masters thesis needs to be published to even have a chance. be specific in what you want to study. if you attach yourself to a proff that you can do research for and aid in their papers/conferences you have a much better chance succeeding. not that you can't do it.

[RPI-Fan]

The GRE's were originally scheduled to change October '06, but I believe that has been pushed back to October '07.