Building a MMA board/card game

[SirFozzie]

Sometimes I have too much free time on my hands. Or too much free time on my brain, as I am stuck in a lecture while training. So.. I come up with ideas, and then spend time fleshing them out.

The next series of posts in this thread will be a compilation of notes jotted down for a MMA board/card game (for two player, one player, or even auto play) and see what folks think.

[BrianD]

MMA?

[Poli]

SuWEET.

[SirFozzie]

Fighters are rated on the following abilities: (Stats are rated on a 1 (never done before) to 20 (Best in the MMA world) basis) (asides will be in bold)

Punch- your basic punch attack. If your fighter is a good striker with knockout power, this is his stat. I was thinking about breaking this down to jab and power punch ratings for fighters, to reflect the Tank Abbot types who throw nothing but bombs, compared to the other fighters who use the jab to set up their takedowns (or to do damage over time), but right now, I've decided that it would lead to more complications and it's probably complicated enough as is

Kick- Primarily used to wear opponents down, this is for fighters who like to reduce their oppoents legs to jello before going in for the kill. Kicks do minimal stamina damage, but can lower opponents stats)

Defensive-Fighters with this stat are good at frustrating an opponent's attacks, and can even catch their breath when fending off the opponents attacks

Takedown- If the opponent is beating you (and beating on you) while standing up, you may want to neutralize his striking advantage and take him down to the mat. A lot of good to great fighters prmarily get their wins on the ground.

Submission- Somewhat linked to the Takedown stat.. it's what you're hoping for once you get him to the ground I might use this stat exclusively for forcing a stoppage on the ground, rather then use punch for ground and pound types and submission for the armbars, triangle chokes and the like, once again for simplicity)

Stamina - This stat is rated on a scale of 1-10, instead of 1-20, and represents your fighter's cardiovascular shape. Each action you use takes up one point of stamina (and damage can reduce your stamina as well). When you go below 0 stamina (via using actions or taking damage), all the above stats drop by one point per point below 0 your stamina is (so if you were at -3 stamina, all the stats above would drop by 3). Stamina is regained by taking a REST action.

Shock - This stat is rated on a scale of 1-10, instead of 1-20, and is your character's "chin".. how well they can take a punch. If a character takes more points of damage in one turn then his Shock value, he will need to test against being Knocked out. This rating also drops via damage taken (but not by negative stamina)

[SirFozzie]

MMA?

Mixed Martial Arts

Basically, the UFC and Pride Fighting Championships style stuff

[BrianD]

Mixed Martial Arts

Basically, the UFC and Pride Fighting Championships style stuff

Ah, thanks. Even after seeing your description I couldn't figure out what it meant. :)

[SirFozzie]

Here's a list of actions. In parenthesis is the stat that the action uses, and any designer's notes again will be in bold

Jab (Punch) - low damage - Good Control - your basic jabbing circling on the outside action

Power Punch (Punch) your Hooks, uppercuts and the like - Higher Base Damage , but riskier. I'm thinking of various limiters to make it a risk/reward choice, it has extra damage, but possible remedies is lowering the Punch Stat some amount when doing a power punch and/or the character takes extra damage if he gets hit when attempting to do it)

Leg Kick (Kick) Minimal Damage, but more used to lower opponents statsWill likely become just plain kick in the next revision as I drop the Power Kick

Power Kick (Kick) = More damage, but leaves you wide open Likely dropped (next version, not many fights in UFC or Pride are really decided by power kicks

Clinch (Defensive) = a wear down hold, uses stamina each turn, but the loser of the clinch must use an extra point of stamina.. so good as a wear down stamina hold

Shoot (Takedown) - Go for a Takedown, and bring fight to the ground

Block (Defensive) - Gives you a bonus to defeating opponent's action, and does NOT use a point of stamina on your side

Rest - Regain 1d3 stamina points.. but if your opponent took an action, you have no bonus to your roll..

Ground - Attacker

Ground and Pound (Punch) Dual purpose - either adding to opponents damage (wear down) or go for the stoppage I may turn going for the stoppage into submission below, get it all under one roof

Improve Position (Takedown) Try to improve your position (the more in control you are of the opponent, the bigger your bonus is on the roll)

Go For Submission (Submission) Tryto end the fight right then and there (dangerous, can be reversed)

Rest (Regain Stamina)

Ground- Defender

Improve Position (Defensive) - Try to improve your position to try to get the opponent off you and back to your feet

Block Ground and Pound (Defensive) - Block opponent from using your face as a punching bag.

Block Submission (defensive) Keep your opponent from stretching you in ways your body doesn't go, and or putting you to sleep via Choke Hold.

Reversal (1/2 Defensive) Try to flip or roll your way out of the position you're in and see how your opponent likes when HE has to be the defender (basically switch positions)

[SirFozzie]

Running out of time (on training, don't have access to my computer during lectures, this is all from jotted down notes on my note pad).. but here's a sample character, based off the UFC's most public face (no, not Dana White), LHW Champion Chuck "The Iceman" Liddell. (yes, stats are high, but that's because he's the top 205 pound fighter in the world)

Chuck Liddell - UFC LHW Champion

Punch: 18
Kick: 13
Defensive: 15
Takedown: 12
Submission: 10
Stamina: 9
Shock: 8

Now the other part of the character sheet, the Auto Play card.. basically a template of how he should act if he's not human controlled.

To select his action for the turn if Liddel is not auto controlled, roll a d100 and consult the following table

Standing
Jab - 01-35
Power Punch 36-50
Kick (Leg) 51-55
Clinch 56-60
Shoot 61-65
Block 66-80
Counter 81-95
Rest 96-00

Ground Offense
Ground n'Pound 01-60 (he's the best G'n'P guy in UFC I think)
Improve Position 61-80
Submission 81-85
Rest 86-100

Ground Defense
Improve Position 01-30
Block Ground and Pound 31-60
Block Submission 61-75
Reversal 76-100

[SirFozzie]

Game play: Each turn is 20 seconds of fight time. So in the UFC, (which has 5 minute rounds), each round would be 15 turns (Pride uses a weird 10 minute first round, and subsequent rounds are 5 minutes)

In between rounds- you can rest up to twice to regain stamina

The round:

Each player selects an action, and both players reveal their action at the same time. Each player then rolls a d20, and adds their relevant stat (Punch/Kick etcetera)

The higher roll wins the "round" and does damage based on your action and how much you won the roll by.

(more later)

[SirFozzie]

Ok, back from lecture, on break.

Base Damage:

Jab = 1 Point of Damage +1 per 4 full points you win the roll by.
Power Punch=3 Points+1 per 4 full Points
Kick= 1 Point of Damage+ 1 Point Stat Damage per 4 points you win the roll by (you choose the opponents stat (NOT Stamina or Shock) to lower

Takedown

There are five stages of fighting, 1 standing, and four on the ground. When a fighter takes his opponent down, it's assumed that he starts in GUARD position. In order (defender tries to improve his position UPWARDS, the attacker tries to move down the ladder)

Standing
Guard - No Attacker Bonus
Half Guard - Attacker gets +2 Bonus to all rolls
Mount - Attacker gets +4 bonus to all rolls
Rear Mount - Attacker gets a +6 bonus to all rolls


Ground and Pound is like Punching standing up.. 1 point of damage + an extra point of damage per 4 points you win the roll by.

Submission attempts:

If the attacker chooses to attempt a submission, he does 3 points of damage +1 per TWO points he wins the roll by. This could (and likely will, later in the fight) cause a Shock Check.

Defender's bonus: If a defender picks the right kind of defense (Block Ground and Pound vs Ground and Pound and Block Submission vs Submission), they get a +5 bonus to their rollo (although the attacker gets their positional bonus still)

Reversal: This is a desperate move, but it can turn a fight around. If Reversal is selected versus a submission attempt, the attacker loses his positional bonus for the turn (although the defender will still only get to add half his defensive skill). If the defender wins the roll, they can either switch the situation (becoming the attacker, in the guard of the former attacker), or stand up the fight.

Shock Checks:

When a fighter takes more damage in 1 turn then his shock value, he must make a shock check to stay in the fight.

To make a shock check, you roll 1d6 and add to your current shock level, and compare to the damage taken in that turn.

If your total (Shock+1d6) is lower then the damage taken, then you lose the fight (you tap out to a submission hold, or the referee stops the fight as you are knocked for a loop).

If the total is GREATER then the damage taken, then you can continue fighting.

If the roll is tied, then you're still in the fight, but for the next turn, you are stunned (all your stats are halved) good luck, you're probably coming back here next turn.. pray for the bell)

Remember, Stamina and Shock deplete during a fight. For each 10 points of damage taken in a fight, your maximum stamina and shock levels drop one point (for the rest of the fight)

So if you start with a shock of 7, you have to take more then 7 points of damage in a turn to roll a Shock check, but if you've taken 24 points of damage, your Shock drops to 5)

[SirFozzie]

Fighters should be based on the following

Fight Clubs: 50 Points (and recommend rolling a d10 instead of a d20)
Local Organizations: 60 Points
MMA Minor Leaguer: 70 Points
UFC Fighter: 80 Points
UFC Champion: 90+ Points.

This is just a first draft, but I'm open to comments/criticism. I'm tempted to run a interactive dynasty in the dyansty forum to beta test the rules, and have some fun.

Let me know, and thanks for reading :)

[DaddyTorgo]

*barf*

Chuck Liddell should not get a 10 on submissions. He ought to get a 1. I don't think he knows anything beyond a basic armbar, and he will NEVER take the fight to the ground. He's the epitome of a one-dimensional fighter

[dervack]

While I won't go so far as to say barf, I agree that Chuck shouldn't be that high with submissions.

[DaddyTorgo]

While I won't go so far as to say barf, I agree that Chuck shouldn't be that high with submissions.

that's just cuz i'm a chuck-hater.

yeah I admit it. HATER. can't wait for Wanderlei to ANNIHILATE him

[dervack]

that's just cuz i'm a chuck-hater.

yeah I admit it. HATER. can't wait for Wanderlei to ANNIHILATE him
Really, the Wanderlei that got destroyed by Cro Cop, or the Wanderlei from 5 years ago? Cause if you're talking about the former, if that fight ever happens, Wanderlei ain't making it out of the first round.

[DaddyTorgo]

bah. hopefully the wanderlei from 5 years ago makes a shocking return fueled by his desire to prove how good he is.

ah well, i take solace in knowing that nothing is forever, especially in MMA and SOMEONE will come along who will end Chuck, although I think at this point it's likely to be another striker with heavier hands who plants one smack on him.

[dervack]

bah. hopefully the wanderlei from 5 years ago makes a shocking return fueled by his desire to prove how good he is.

ah well, i take solace in knowing that nothing is forever, especially in MMA and SOMEONE will come along who will end Chuck, although I think at this point it's likely to be another striker with heavier hands who plants one smack on him.
I don't think Chuck is a great fighter, I just think that anyone who believes that Wanderlei would beat him need to watch that Crocop fight, and see what happens when Wanderlei fights a hard striker.

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't think Chuck is a great fighter, I just think that anyone who believes that Wanderlei would beat him need to watch that Crocop fight, and see what happens when Wanderlei fights a hard striker.

i admit i havn't watched the wanderlei vs. crocop fight :)

[SirFozzie]

*laughs* I made up that Chuck on the Spot to try to show off the system.

I think I came up with some dynasty rules that will be fun.

But take a look at the rules, see if you can find any holes.. right now I'm wondering if Submissions are too powerful, but I see most matches end by submission, not pummelling

[dervack]

i admit i havn't watched the wanderlei vs. crocop fight :)
If you're a huge Wanderlei fan, don't. :D

[DaddyTorgo]

If you're a huge Wanderlei fan, don't. :D

i'm not fortunately. i'm a huge "anyone fighting chuck" fan. to me liddell is like the NY Yankees. He's the "marquee" guy who draws the casual fan in.

If I had to list the guys I'm a fan of it'd go like this (in some rough order)

1. Nogeuira
2. Fedor
3. Matt Hughes
4. Jeremy Horn
5. growing respect for Rich Franklin
6. GSP

[moriarty]

I don't think Chuck is a great fighter, I just think that anyone who believes that Wanderlei would beat him need to watch that Crocop fight, and see what happens when Wanderlei fights a hard striker.

You do realize that Cro Cop is a heavyweight and, like Chuck, Wandy is a LHW. Basically Wandy was fighting a guy who is bigger and used to fighting at a heavier weight.

Before we bash Wandy too much for getting KO'd by CroCop ... consider if it was CroCop fighting Chuck. CroCop would destroy chuck. Whereas Crocop is a precision striker, Chuck is a wild, loopy swinger always looking for the KO. CroCop would also have the edge in kicking, reach, and weight. There's no reason to believe that a Chuck/CroCop fight would end any differently.

That's the beauty of a Wandy/Chuck fight. They're both wild brawlers who go for the KO almost constantly. Too bad it's never going to happen ...

[moriarty]

Dola,

Fozzie, I know you're doing this for a fun exercise ... but if anyone is interested in a tabletop/board type MMA game this one has received some decent reviews: hxxp://strikeorsubmit.tripod.com/index.html

[dervack]

You do realize that Cro Cop is a heavyweight and, like Chuck, Wandy is a LHW. Basically Wandy was fighting a guy who is bigger and used to fighting at a heavier weight.

Before we bash Wandy too much for getting KO'd by CroCop ... consider if it was CroCop fighting Chuck. CroCop would destroy chuck. Whereas Crocop is a precision striker, Chuck is a wild, loopy swinger always looking for the KO. CroCop would also have the edge in kicking, reach, and weight. There's no reason to believe that a Chuck/CroCop fight would end any differently.

That's the beauty of a Wandy/Chuck fight. They're both wild brawlers who go for the KO almost constantly. Too bad it's never going to happen ...
Yes, but Crocop is a "light" heavyweight, and I believe, but might be wrong, that Wandy came into the fight over 205, so it's not as big of a difference as you may think. That being said, I think that Crocop would beat Chuck, along with all the HW's in the UFC. I just don't think Wandy is as good as most people still believe he is, and would be beaten, badly, by Chuck if they fought.

[SirFozzie]

Dola,

Fozzie, I know you're doing this for a fun exercise ... but if anyone is interested in a tabletop/board type MMA game this one has received some decent reviews: hxxp://strikeorsubmit.tripod.com/index.html


moriarty: yeah, I just ordered SoS to get more ideas.

Hopefully, folks will take a look at the game I've created and help me improve it, that way the game improves. WHo knows, once all the bugs are out of it or whatever, I can sell it ;)

[SirFozzie]

One additional rule I've added (it's listed as advanced right now)

Judges

If a round does not end via submission or a TKO/KO, then three ringside judges will decide who wins the round. If one fighter dominated the round thoroughly, don't roll, just give him the round (10-9). If one fighter REALLY dominated the round (nearly put his opponent away, multiple KO/submission checks and the loser of the round did nothing), make it 10-8.. otherwise roll a d6 for each judge.

1-2: Control (score the round 10-9 in favor of the fighter who won more turns in the round)

3-4 Damage (score the round 10-9 in favor of the fighter who inflicted more damage in the round)

5 Attempts to Finish the Fight (Score the round 10-9 in favor of the fighter who caused his opponent to take the most Shock checks)

6 Random

[Mustang]

Not sure if you are taking suggestions but, hey.. :)

For judges, could make them more static with tendencies. e.g, 10 judges, randomly pick 3 for the game

Judge 1, leans damage (1-3 damage, 4 control, 5 attempts, 6 random)
Judge 2, spread (as you listed)
Judge 3, leans control (1-3 control, etc...)

Going in, you know which way the judges might lean and could taper your style to match the judges

[SirFozzie]

I am not only taking suggestions, I'm begging for them:)

[SirFozzie]

well, just got Strike or Submit, and it's interesting.. a different way from the way I'm going at it. I've also got a dynasty going on the Dynasty forums to betatest the game, a knockoff of the Ultimate Fighter:

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=53104

[moriarty]

Yes, but Crocop is a "light" heavyweight, and I believe, but might be wrong, that Wandy came into the fight over 205, so it's not as big of a difference as you may think. That being said, I think that Crocop would beat Chuck, along with all the HW's in the UFC. I just don't think Wandy is as good as most people still believe he is, and would be beaten, badly, by Chuck if they fought.


CroCop fights around 215, Wady around 200-205. 10-15 lbs is a big difference. And yes, Wandy did put on extra weight for the fight, but he also looked noticeably slower at the heavier weight IMO. Plus CroCop still had the 3+" of reach advantage.

I'd still take Wandy over Chuck, but I'd love to see it as it would be a great fight. If only ...

[SirFozzie]

One change I've made is that Power Punches subtract four from the punch rating, + the fighter takes an extra point of damage if they fail and take damage (it leaves them wide open)

[SirFozzie]

Oh, and Power Kicks have been removed, at least for now.

[SirFozzie]

Oh, one note, Blocks (be they standing or on ground defense) do NOT give you a control point, even if you win the turn :)