Dennis Erickson New Coach of 49'ers

[WSUCougar]

Wow, I didn't see this one coming. Very, very interesting choice.

Here's the link:

ESPN.com (http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2003/0211/1507238.html)

[Fritz]

man am I glad ESPN keeps us up to date on the black head coach body count.

[Kodos]

Hmmm. And I was just getting to like the 49ers (except for Terrell Owens). Oh well. Back to hating them!

[Bee]

ROFL

Dennis

ROFL

Erickson

ROFL

and they fired Mooch?

ROFL

[Craptacular]

hey brad

[scooper]

Very interesting indeed. I'm not sure about the hire, but I'll give the niners credit for keeping that one out of the public eye. That was one of the best smokescreen jobs we've seen in a few years.

I hate to see college coaches leave right after signing day, though. I'm just glad it's him and not Willingham (who would have been a good fit and was thrown around the rumor mill.)

[Anrhydeddu]

I hate to see college coaches leave right after signing day, though.

I've seen folks here bring that up before. If this is wrong, then you would never see an active college coach move up to the pros or even moving to a better college program (like the Alabama guy).

[scooper]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
I've seen folks here bring that up before. If this is wrong, then you would never see an active college coach move up to the pros or even moving to a better college program (like the Alabama guy).

Not exactly. Francione left Alabama long before the signing day and Price left WSU early as well. I don't have a problem with coaches improving their situation, but part of the recruiting process is convincing players you as a coach will stay. Realistically, coaches leave and players know that can happen. But if a coach leaves right after signing day, chances are it has been in the works and that coach has lied to recruits as recently as a week ago.

To tell a player you will be there and leave a year or a few years later to improve your status is one thing. To lie knowing you will probably be gone in two weeks is another.

[AgPete]

I thought when you fire a coach, you're doing it with the intention of hiring a better one. :p Erickson was suppose to be the savior in Seattle but never could get the job done. If its any consolation for Niners fans, Holmgren couldn't either.

[sabotai]

"man am I glad ESPN keeps us up to date on the black head coach body count."

If they didn't, Johnny Cochrane would sue for claiming they were racists.

[moriarty]

I half expect to hear from Jesse/Johnny on this one as well. Yes they interviewed Cottrell, but J&J will probably pull up Dennis (interested, but bypassed) Green's pro record versus Erickson's. My numbers may be off, but i believe it looks like:

Green 97-62 (.610) versus Erickson 31-33 (.484)

(we'll call the alleged sexual harassment and drunk driving charges a draw)

[Ksyrup]

But didn't Dennis Green write a "controversial" book about his team while he was still coaching them? The guy's not exactly a piece of cake to work with. And his race has got nothing to do with it. I wouldn't hire Dennis Green over a number of seemingly lesser-qualified candidates. That would be the equivalent of electing Randy Moss team captain.

[vtbub]

I can't see this going over well. You can't make the arguement that Erickson was the best coach out there. Is anybody actually happy about this?

[Fritz]

you don't have to make the case that he was the best coach out there.

[bosshogg23]

I have to imagine Dennis Erickson is happy. Probably Al Davis too.

[astralhaze]

D'oh

[moriarty]

Originally posted by bosshogg23
I have to imagine Dennis Erickson is happy. Probably Al Davis too.

.... not to mention the Rams, Cardinals, and even probably the Seahawks.

Should be interesting to see how this turns out.

[Travis]

MUHAHAHAHAHAHA

Have fun Niner fans. We gave up on him in Seattle for a reason.

[Draft Dodger]

well, since I always seem to be the one to rock the boat anyway...

I've been giving this quite a bit of thought, and I think this may turn out to be a good move. He's got NFL experience, he's not Dennis Green (that's a positive), he's taking over a team with some talent...

[cthomer5000]

poor poor Darkiller.

[astralhaze]

The Seahawks were pretty sure that canning him and bringing in Homgren would fix their problems. Obviously that didn't work so well. We shall see how Erickson fairs with actual talent.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

I didnt see that coming either!!!!!
As for the smoke screen I take credit for that .....The 49ers must have a former Chemical Soldier in their staff to have a great smopke screen.

[Flame Eater]

Gee, another old, white, retread coach. Imagine that!

[bigdawg2003]

I have no idea what they see in Erickson. He's just another college coach who can't translate NCAA success to NFL success

[tucker342]

:mad: This pisses me off so much. Okay you fire Mooch, and hire Dennis Erickson!!!!!!!!!! What the fuck are the 49ers thinking?!?!?!?!?:mad:

[bosshogg23]

How about this:

Matt Millen is a former 49er and the 49ers felt bad for him. They fired Mooch so the Lions could hire him. Millen now doesnt look like the biggest ass in the NFL(ok its a toss up with Mike Brown) because he hired Mooch. The 49ers were just protecting their own. Anyone buy it?

Naw didnt think so. Just a bad move.

[bigdawg2003]

Why give another shot to a proven failure at the NFL level and not give it to some assistant who hasn't had a chance to be a failure. Have there been any NFL coaches who were unsuccesful in their first try who made good later? At the moment I cannot think of any. It happens in baseball though (Joe Torre anybody)

[Young Drachma]

You can dream up a million excuses. But why does a coach who couldn't get it done the first time get a second chance, while coaches/coordinators who get it done or have been on successful clubs continuing to get snubbed?

This isn't about race. It's about the fact that constantly, they hire the same old retreads who don't accomplish anything when they get their shot. So a guy like Marvin Lewis takes the job no one wants in Cincy, Tony Dungy goes to Tampa back when they're wearing those bright orange uniforms.

But Dennis f-ing Erickson gets the 49ers when he couldn't even get the Seahawks to respectablity?

Eh, maybe Condi Rice really will become Comissioner and that'll get all the old fogies in line. After all, with all her connections to old money, surely the old men will want that.

Riight.

[jerem77]

Yes, Dennis Erickson is such a horrible Coach that he couldn't succeed with a team where two former Super Bowl winning coaches, Flores and Holmgren, hired before and after him, have failed to succeed.

Erickson may not be the best available coach, but 49ers management felt he was the best fit for them, and that is what matters. Heck, Steve Mariucci had one season as a head coach at the college level and went 6-6. Erickson has been a consistent winner at that level. Remember that everyone criticized the Mariucci hiring too.

[cthomer5000]

Coaches who turned it around with a second chance?

Dave Wanstedt? certiainly doing better, although the degree of success is debatable.

Wade Phillips did much better with Buffalo then he did Denver

Mike Shanahan won 2 super bowls after being fired mid-season by Oakland.

of course there is Rich Kotite to be the ultimate counter-argument.


Obviously guys can turn it around. But like everyone else here, without knowing these coaches personally, I can only wonder why coaches who've done nothing with a previous opportunity get another shot before successful coordinators do.

[cthomer5000]

dola.


One more thing to remember. Erickson was fired when the Seahawks didn't make the playoffs in his final year as coach. But they only missed the playoffs because of Vinny Testeverde's phantom touchdown that year (when he got no closer than the 1.5 yard line, yet the refs inexplicably signaled touchdown). That play single-handedly brought back instant replay. Had they won that game and the Seahawks made the playoffs, there is no telling how his Seattle tenure would have turned out.

Ultimately I can understand the 49ers decision, but I think it's going to be a tough one to sell to the fans. The team is obviously ready to win, so they'd probably prefer to bring in someone with (extensive) head coaching experience, rather than a coordinator who has none. Of course this makes me wonder why they seemed to bend over backwards to interview every defensive coordinator in the league.

The 49ers come accross looking very schizophrenic and impulsive on this one, but only time will tell if it was a mistake.

[McSweeny]

dont' forget Bill Belichick for the coaches who turned it around list

[cthomer5000]

The media is already going nuts over this hiring, due to the fact that seemingly qualified black candidates were passed over. I see again and again the stats on black head coaches vs. black players ad naseum. My question is, why don't we ever see the numbers on ALL black coaches? I mean coordinators, position coaches, etc...

In my opinion, the real problem with the head coaching scene in the NFL is the impatience of the media. Without having any stats to back me up, I'd be willing to bet the number of black coaches has risen every year for the last 6-7 years.

Where do head coaches come from? Coordinator positions or colleges.

Where do coordinators come from? position coaches

Therefore, shouldn't making sure black coaches are getting any and all coaching positions be the top priority? I think making sure a larger amount of qualified applicants are black is the real key to there being more black coaches in the league.

If anyone has any statistics, I'd love to see them. I'm really intersted to see if my assumption is correct.

[ISiddiqui]

I'd also like to reiterate that Mooch wasn't exactly a can't miss when the Niners hired him. IIRC, there was quite a cry about the Niners hiring a nobody (who was known much less than anyone the Niners interviewed this time).

[Craptacular]

from a Chicago Tribune article from last November (http://new.blackvoices.com/technology/bv-021101blackcoaches,0,7340053.story?coll=bv-technology-headlines)

1980: 14 black assistants, zero coordinators

1993: 103 black assistants

1997: 5 black coordinators

2002: 154 (out of 547, 28%) black assistants, 12 coordinators

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Craptacular
from a Chicago Tribune article from last November (http://new.blackvoices.com/technology/bv-021101blackcoaches,0,7340053.story?coll=bv-technology-headlines)

1980: 14 black assistants, zero coordinators

1993: 103 black assistants

1997: 5 black coordinators

2002: 154 (out of 547, 28%) black assistants, 12 coordinators

thank you. That means in 5 years, the number of black coaches grew by over 50%! Why isn't this publicized more often?

logically, I'd say that year after year we'll be seeing a proportionitly higher number of minority assistants/coordinators interviewing for jobs. I'm certain that will mean more of them will end up landing these jobs. I think these numbers are the real proof that people like Johnny Cochrane are blowing the NFL situation out of proportion.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
Therefore, shouldn't making sure black coaches are getting any and all coaching positions be the top priority? I think making sure a larger amount of qualified applicants are black is the real key to there being more black coaches in the league.



Whoa now tiger. "any and all" is some dangerous stuff. The goal should be no one gets, or does not get, a job because of race.

[Bee]

Erickson didn't get it done in Seattle when he had talent. Holmgren has stripped Seattle of what talent he inherited. There's a big difference IMO. One has shown he couldn't coach in the pros, the other showed he couldn't be a GM.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Fritz
Whoa now tiger. "any and all" is some dangerous stuff. The goal should be no one gets, or does not get, a job because of race.

hehe, I think my terminology was a bit incorrect there. I'm completely with you in saying that the best available candidate should be getting the job, regardless of race. My point is, despite the noise football experts like Johnnie Cochran are making, the number of black coaches in the league is rising very quickly. If they weren't just focusing on the glamor position of head coach, they'd really have no argument about the league being racist.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
I'm completely with you in saying that the best available candidate should be getting the job [...]

I din't say that either. I am saying the place to be is where race is a non-factor. I can see where a team might not take the "best available" coach.

I don't mean for this minor point to take away from your excellent argument about the progression in coaching as a whole.

[moriarty]

Originally posted by ISiddiqui
I'd also like to reiterate that Mooch wasn't exactly a can't miss when the Niners hired him.

What do you mean? He was hired right after he coached Cal to a 42-38 Aloha Bowl loss to um ... Navy. ;)

(How can any major conference coach give up 42 points to Navy in a bowl?) Hmm... maybe Erickson isn't so bad after all ..

[Bee]

Mooch was a well respected college coach. He wasn't a can't miss coach, but he did have the potential to be a solid coach. He was a young up and coming coach that was being given a shot to show if he could do it on the highest level (and I think he did a pretty good job).

[WSUCougar]

Originally posted by moriarty
What do you mean? He was hired right after he coached Cal to a 42-38 Aloha Bowl loss to um ... Navy. ;)

(How can any major conference coach give up 42 points to Navy in a bowl?) Hmm... maybe Erickson isn't so bad after all ..
Navy was in a bowl?!? Roger Staubach lives!

A concern on the coaching/race issue is that black coaches are not getting that same "retread" consideration that so many whites are. Consider that Dennis Green has one of the better coaching records in recent years. Sure, he has his flaws (I am a Vikings fan, so I am well familiar with them), but who doesn't? I think Marty Schottenheimer is a good comparison. Respected for aspects of his coaching, good record, has some issues that need to be dealt with, never got over the hump in the playoffs.

Art Shell? Ray Rhodes? Jerry Glanville? (oh wait, he's white) :D I'm not saying these guys are the answer in every instance, but I think it is interesting that the Niners pull a guy like Erickson off the NFL scrap-heap with so many other options (of any color) available.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by WSUCougar
Navy was in a bowl?!? Roger Staubach lives!

A concern on the coaching/race issue is that black coaches are not getting that same "retread" consideration that so many whites are. Consider that Dennis Green has one of the better coaching records in recent years. Sure, he has his flaws (I am a Vikings fan, so I am well familiar with them), but who doesn't? I think Marty Schottenheimer is a good comparison. Respected for aspects of his coaching, good record, has some issues that need to be dealt with, never got over the hump in the playoffs.

Art Shell? Ray Rhodes? Jerry Glanville? (oh wait, he's white) :D I'm not saying these guys are the answer in every instance, but I think it is interesting that the Niners pull a guy like Erickson off the NFL scrap-heap with so many other options (of any color) available.

Dennis Green has baggage PLUS he wants to be the GM as well. The Coach GM thing is not very popular these days. Ray Rhodes was retread. IT is hard to draw many colusions with such a limited groups to pick from.

[wishbone]

People are ignoring Erickson's pro experience with Miami. He won 2 Championships and obviously understands the pro player.

My main problem with Erickson is that he seems to be a formula coach who has no clue how to adapt to personnel. He runs a simple spread offense with the best athletes he can find regardless of things like character.

Is he going to change the offense, will he even have the right to? How will he feel when he realizes he has no clue what play is being run? Are the Niners going to have to keep JJ Stokes?

[wishbone]

dola,

I have no idea why people even mention Dennis Green as a coach for the Niners. He wasn't that good. He reminds me of Wayne Fontes for some reason.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by wishbone
Is he going to change the offense, will he even have the right to? How will he feel when he realizes he has no clue what play is being run? Are the Niners going to have to keep JJ Stokes?

Not according to an article I read. While Bill Walsh lives the 49ers will be west coast.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by wishbone
dola,

I have no idea why people even mention Dennis Green as a coach for the Niners. He wasn't that good. He reminds me of Wayne Fontes for some reason.

not to mention the Vikings were notorious playoff chokers under Green. They basically got knocked out in the first round ever time they made the playoffs. and 2 times they choked their way out of a super bowl trip.

[cincyreds]

The 49ers won't even make the playoffs next year!!!

or the next

or next

or next

Bawahahahahahahahah!!!

[moriarty]

Originally posted by wishbone

I have no idea why people even mention Dennis Green as a coach for the Niners. He wasn't that good.

I don't think anyone has said Dennis Green would make a "good" coach for the 49'ers. The comment was just that they keep bringing up the same retread white coaches (and guys like Dennis Green and Art Shell don't even get a second look).

Ray Rhodes would be an exception (although if memory serves me correctly he was only given 1 year in GB before he was canned). Another exception is Tony Dungy (not sure I would classify him as retread though), and I hope he will have a greater opportunity to improve Indy.

[wishbone]

Originally posted by moriarty
I don't think anyone has said Dennis Green would make a "good" coach for the 49'ers. The comment was just that they keep bringing up the same retread white coaches (and guys like Dennis Green and Art Shell don't even get a second look).


In this thread, that is true. But his name has been thrown around since day 1.
As far as retreads go, I don't care. I want to see the Niners get the best coach possible. Do I think Erickson is the best coach for them? No.

Here's a list from an ESPN article (http://espn.go.com/magazine/genobmoc_021110.html) :

Dennis Green, former Vikings coach
Urban Meyer, Bowling Green
Jim Grobe, Wake Forest
Charlie Strong, South Carolina defensive coordinator
Norm Chow, Southern Cal offensive coordinator
George O'Leary, Minnesota Vikings assistant coach
Woody McCorvey, Tennessee running backs coach
Marvin Lewis, Washington Redskins defensive coordinator
Steve Mariucci, San Francisco 49ers
Rob Chudzinski, Miami offensive coordinator
Randy Shannon, Miami defensive coordinator
Mike Stoops, Oklahoma associate head coach/co-defensive coordinator
Bud Foster, Virginia Tech defensive coordinator
Art Shell, former Raiders head coach
Kevin Sumlin, Texas A&M offensive coordinator
Tony Samuel, New Mexico State
Dan McCarney, Iowa State
Walt Harris, Pittsburgh
Kelly Skipper, UCLA offensive coordinator
Lou West, Toledo defensive coordinator
Chuck Long, Oklahoma offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach
Jim Donnan former Georgia coach
John Cooper former Ohio State coach
Bob Davie former Notre Dame coach
Joe Glenn Montana coach


Why didn't we hear about most of these guys? I don't know the race and couldn't confirm the gender by their names alone but I don't recall any of these being mentioned. The NBA has far more "retreads" than the NFL and I don't hear half the stink about them.

My point is that I don't understand why any team would hire a coach that can't make fundamental changes to the team and/or philisophy of the team. That is what scares me about the decision. Also, a poll from www.sf49ers.com reports:

49ers Fans - What is your reaction to the hiring of Erickson?
Other 34.5%
Field Goal 23.9%
Touchdown 22.3%
First Down 19.4%

Total Votes: 13091

[ISiddiqui]

This isn't about race. It's about the fact that constantly, they hire the same old retreads who don't accomplish anything when they get their shot.

People like to copy what is successful. Vermeil got everyone on board.

My point is that I don't understand why any team would hire a coach that can't make fundamental changes to the team and/or philisophy of the team.

Was Walsh and Donahue looking for anyone that would make any changes?

[dread]

The worst part of the Niner hiring besides not improving on Mariucci is the bad publicity its getting by all the so called sports experts claiming that deserving canidates such as Ted Cotrell were by passed for an underserving lesser acheiving retread such as Dennis Erickson. Lets look at some of Erickson's credentials.

7th winningest active college head coach with winning pct. of .722


18 years as college coach with record of 136-51-1

is 23-12 at oregon friggin st has best record ever for Ore ST at 11-1 and highest ranking ever at #5 and was Sporting News coach of year in 2000.

won 2 national championships at miami 63-9 in six years at miami

in 1988 took a wash st team to 9-3 in second season

2 out of 4 years took Idaho to Divison 1-AA playoffs

has one losing season in 18 years of coaching and most of these schools were not perennial powers with exception of Miami


As NFL coach went 8-8 three times in seattle along with a 7-9
for a 4 year record of 31-33

his replacement the almighty Mike Holgrem took them to next level the following year by winning one more game, then did an encore by going 6-10,9-7 and 7-9 for a 4 year record of u guessed it 31-33.

No matter how one feels about Erickson he was probably a better choice than any of the coordinators that were in the running and definately more accomplished. Everyone glows when the name of Stoops is mentioned but even his credentials dont dwarf Ericksons. I truly feel offended that people would make the Erickson hiring out as an injustice to minority coaches, this is a guy with 2 national championships, how many potential canidates can claim that type of cache. If minority canidates feel slighted maybe they should have spoke up more against the Del Rio hiring which was much more a case of a coach not being hired on credentials. I agree that the NFL has had a history of not looking at minority canidates , but to be a fair process you can't force a owner to hire a coach based on he's black and has been a good coodinator. Its bad enough that Jessie Jackson is complaining about the process which is still very flawed ,but to have the sports rags playing up to this drama based on a fully qualified, in fact probably most qualified coaching choice.

(disclaimer im not a Erickson flamer , but his college record speaks volumes, and based on one NFL coaching job I don't feel like this speaks that he cannot coach in NFL, because as you can see future hall of fame coach Mike Holgrem has really done no better to this point.)