2006-2007 Baseball Offseason Thread....

[SackAttack]

Incidentally, Jason Schmidt has been kind of a weird pitcher for the Giants. He's never been somebody I looked at and said "Schmidt? Crap, we're not winning today," but when I ran the numbers on his starts against us in his last five years with the Giants, there was a bit of a dichotomy there.

In 138.2 innings against LA, he went 10-4 with a 2.73 ERA. Pretty respectable numbers, but he had an awful lot of no-decisions - 7 ND's in 21 starts against the Dodgers, and his team went 2-5 in those games.

On the surface, it looks like we're stealing a guy who's had pretty good overall success, and certainly been successful against us - that 10-4 mark looms - but his team as a whole has been barely above .500 in his starts against us over the last five years.

It'll be interesting to see how this signing affects the Dodgers/Giants dynamic in 2007.

[Danny]

Edit- Looks like the deal is not done yet. We'll see, but if it does get done, I will be very happy. Jason Schmidt was the one guy I wanted them to go out and get the most.

[Vince]

Please, please tell me the deal is not done yet.

[SackAttack]

Vince, I think it hinges on a physical right now. That's the only thing standing between Jason and his new blues.

[miami_fan]

Mike Piazza to the A's. One year $8.5 ,mil and Alan Embree

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2688662

Also heard on ESPN radio a trade of Horacio Ramirez from the Braves to the Mariners for Rafael Soriano

[miami_fan]

Ahhhh it is good to be a lefty

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2688676

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. -- Free agent pitcher Ted Lilly, who earlier in the day ruled out returning to Toronto, agreed Wednesday night to a $40 million, four-year contract with the Chicago Cubs.

Lilly's agent, Larry O'Brien, made the announcement at baseball's winter meetings.

Lilly, a left-hander, crossed the Blue Jays off his list Wednesday and had narrowed his possible destinations to the Cubs and New York Yankees, O'Brien told ESPN.com.


O'Brien planned to meet with Yankees general manager Brian Cashman on Wednesday night. It was not clear if that meeting took place.

Toronto continues to pursue free agent Gil Meche as a possible No. 3 starter behind Roy Halladay and A.J. Burnett.


Lilly, 30, has a career 59-58 record in eight major-league seasons with Montreal, the Yankees, Oakland and Toronto. He went 15-13 with a 4.31 ERA for the Blue Jays last season.

[TazFTW]

According to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, both Rafael Soriano and Horacio Ramirez will have to pass physicals before the deal between the Mariners and Braves gets done.

As a result, it appears unlikely that the trade will become official tonight. Both pitchers have had their share of injury issues, so it's possible the deal could fall apart.

I like Ramirez but we really need bullpen help. It is also being reported that Adam LaRoche will be going to Pittsburgh for Mike Gonzalez pending word on Gonzalez's elbow.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

It is also being reported that Adam LaRoche will be going to Pittsburgh for Mike Gonzalez pending word on Gonzalez's elbow.

I really hope this deal goes through. I like Gonzo, but the bullpen is the one area where the Bucs have some depth. And we really need someone to play first.

[Chief Rum]

Somebody get the defibrillator. Bill "Dead As A" Stoneman is too quiet (still...again...whatever...)

[pennywisesb]

Mike Piazza to the A's. One year $8.5 ,mil and Alan Embree


I like this deal. We needed a replacement for the Big Hurt and we got probably the best hitter left on the market. Hopefully Piazza can stay healthy for us for the entire season.

[dawgfan]

I like Ramirez but we really need bullpen help. It is also being reported that Adam LaRoche will be going to Pittsburgh for Mike Gonzalez pending word on Gonzalez's elbow.
Unless Soriano's elbow blows up early in the season, the Braves have committed highway robbery of the M's - Ramirez is an average at best starter, and possibly quite a bit worse.

I'm seeing reports that Atlanta will now hold on to LaRoche since they have Soriano.

[TazFTW]

Unless Soriano's elbow blows up early in the season, the Braves have committed highway robbery of the M's - Ramirez is an average at best starter, and possibly quite a bit worse.

I'm seeing reports that Atlanta will now hold on to LaRoche since they have Soriano.

Nuts. It would have been cool to add Soriano and Gonzalez to the 'pen. Although I'm unsure of Scott Thorman taking over at first.

Freddy Garcia is sent to the Phillies.

ESPN's Jayson Stark says the Phillies have acquired Freddy Garcia from the White Sox for Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd.

No Aaron Rowand? Gonzalez was a White Sox prospect until a year ago, when he was sent to the Phillies in the Jim Thome deal. Gonzalez is probably one of the 30-35 best pitching prospects in baseball, but Floyd doesn't have a lot of value at the moment and we're stunned that this is the best the White Sox could do for Garcia.
Source: ESPN.com

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Unless Soriano's elbow blows up early in the season, the Braves have committed highway robbery of the M's - Ramirez is an average at best starter, and possibly quite a bit worse.

I'm seeing reports that Atlanta will now hold on to LaRoche since they have Soriano.

:mad: Looks like Littlefield screwed up again. He's going to spin it and blame it on Atlanta being worried about Gonzo's health, but that's not what happened. Littlefield doesn't have the first idea what it takes to be a GM. Why does he still have a job? He doesn't understand the game of baseball. Hey, Dave! You want to build a team through trades? You've got to be willing to give up good players to get good players in return!

I HATE DAVE LITTLEFIELD!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

I love the Pirates, but with this ownership and "management," I don't know how much longer I can follow this team.

[Logan]

Why?!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2687857

I don't like this deal at all... I'd much rather have Bannister at this point than Burgos.

Sorry I'm late to the punch, but I can't see any way this is a bad deal for the Mets, even if I've never seen this Burgos guy pitch. Bannister is never going to be more than a #4/5 starter and I don't see his stuff improving. His pitches generally weren't good enough to make it past one trip through the lineup.

[JonInMiddleGA]

From the Braves beat blogger down at the winter meetings

Trading for Soriano could help revive talks between the Braves and Los Angeles Angels, who were prepared earlier this week to send utility man Chone Figgins and first-base prospect Casey Kotchman to the Braves for LaRoche, but balked at including a standout pitcher in the deal.

[SackAttack]

Somebody get the defibrillator. Bill "Dead As A" Stoneman is too quiet (still...again...whatever...)

710 had a comment you'd love about Stoneman, Chief.

They said he's approaching the winter meetings like a Dodger fan - he showed up a day late, and he's leaving a day early.

Speaks volumes for his commitment to the job, doesn't it? ;)

[Chief Rum]

710 had a comment you'd love about Stoneman, Chief.

They said he's approaching the winter meetings like a Dodger fan - he showed up a day late, and he's leaving a day early.

Speaks volumes for his commitment to the job, doesn't it? ;)

lol, yup, sounds about right. I knew he showed up Monday night. Didn't know he was going to leave tomorrow.

This reminds me of Dorrell vs Carroll before last Saturday. One guy was doing everything he could to make his team the best (Carroll) while the other guy seemed to be doing much less (Dorrell). While that whole situation has turned quite a bit now, the similarity between that now outdated impressions and the one between Stoneman and Colletti seems apt me. Here we are, with the stodgy GM who refuses to do anything that requires going out on a limb except spend money (which he does poorly, witness the Matthews contract). And then across town is a guy who seems to have less to work with on his team and yet for the second year in a row, he is making moves that get people excited and improves his team.

I would LOVE to have Colletti as GM. Stoneman continues to just kill me with his sitting on his ass.

Yes, with the A's losing Zito and Thomas, we probably can win the AL West as is next year even if we don't do anything else. But I'm not satisfied with winning what may be a weak division anymore. We need to aim higher, and I am sorry, but this lineup is not nearly good enough to compete with the Yanks and BoSox or the ChiSox, Twins and Tigers when it comes to the nitty gritty in October.

It's very frustrating to be an Angels fan right now.

[Atocep]

It's very frustrating to be an Angels fan right now.


What I'd be worried about if I were an Angels fan is Stoneman making a trade just for the sake of making a trade at this point. He struck out pretty badly in free agency after promising big moves this offseason. He's in a situation where he knows that if they don't win the AL West this year he may be fired. The Angels have a fairly deep farm system, especially with postition players, and he may start dangling them to bring in a hitter just so he can say, "Look, I did something!"

[Chief Rum]

What I'd be worried about if I were an Angels fan is Stoneman making a trade just for the sake of making a trade at this point. He struck out pretty badly in free agency after promising big moves this offseason. He's in a situation where he knows that if they don't win the AL West this year he may be fired. The Angels have a fairly deep farm system, especially with postition players, and he may start dangling them to bring in a hitter just so he can say, "Look, I did something!"

See, that's the thing. I don't think he will do this. This is exactly what he is an expert at avoiding for whatever reason. Stoneman doesn't like to trade pitching, doesn't like to trade prospects, and doesn't like to trade period. I have heard he overvalues his own, and won't consider a deal unless it is very much in his favor.

No, Stoneman makes some odd moves with money, but with trades I don't ever hear he gets worked over--he just is too conservative to do anything at all. I expect he won't even do anything even with his job on the line.

And it is on the line. He didn't make that promise--his boss, Arte Moreno did. And that can definitely be an issue. I read a report recently that Moreno has told Stoneman if he doesn't win the AL West this year, he's gone. Not sure which way I feel on that, because I do think it's time we had a risk taker in the office, or at least one who takes bigger risks than Stoneman does (in trading, I mean).

Apparently we did discuss a Helton deal today, but that's one trade I don't want to do, and apparently Stoneman said no, too. Helton makes way, way too much money for what he does (and that is in Colorado half the time).

I would be much more interested if we can swing LaRoche and/or Crede. LaRoche seems doable. Crede not so much if, as I have heard, that Williams is asking for Lackey now. That's a deal breaker. One of the main guys mentioned in both trades, though, is Figgins, so we can't do both deals unless they find another way.

[Danny]

Looks like the Dodgers signed Luis Gonzalez now too. He's only an average hitter, but is a solid veteran who provides depth and some decent numbers. What I love is the Dodgers have improved without giving up a single one of their prospects so far.

[SackAttack]

I'd imagine, Danny, that the Gonzo signing is mostly to give Kemp another year without pressure to season, rather than rush him straight to the bigs and see his post-break numbers instead of something closer to the holy-moly numbers we got his first couple of weeks.

I know LA was holding pretty firm to just a one-year deal, which I'd be okay with. Gonzo wanted the guaranteed second year; wonder if he got it?

[Danny]

From what I read, no, he didn't. It's one year for 7 million. Certainly not bad, but this probably makes Loney a back up for Nomar instead of moving him to right field.

[SackAttack]

Could be, but I'd wager that Gonzo is gonna see ~120 games in left, and that Loney will play right during the balance, while Ethier shifts back over to left during those games.

I'd imagine that there will further be another 20-30 games in which Nomar doesn't play, with Loney getting that PT at first, so he could easily see 60-80 games' worth of starting time, with backup PT the rest of the year.

Kinda like Ethier last year, actually.

[Ksyrup]

Has Kotchman fallen that far that the Braves would rather have Mike Gonzalez than Kotchman and Figgins? I know they want/need bullpen help, but Laroche straight-up for Gonzalez would undue the good they just did in the Soriano deal. They should be able to get more for Laroche than that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Has Kotchman fallen that far that the Braves would rather have Mike Gonzalez than Kotchman and Figgins? I know they want/need bullpen help, but Laroche straight-up for Gonzalez would undue the good they just did in the Soriano deal. They should be able to get more for Laroche than that.

At the moment it seems like maybe they'll try to get Figgins & Kotchman for LaRoche and then use Giles elsewhere to add additional pitching.

[Crapshoot]

He signs Juan Pierre, you celebrate. He signs Jason Schmidt, you hate him.

That doesn't sound like 'incompetence' to me. That sounds like 'inscrutability.'

:D

He just signed Luis Gonzales to a 1 year, $7 million deal - I like him again. :D When you have Kemp, Loney, Ethier - well, signing Luis sure makes a lot of sense.

[Scarecrow]

Royals' reported deal with Meche worth $45 million

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The Gil Meche (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6266) sweepstakes are nearly over, and the Kansas City Royals (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=kan) are looking like the winners.

ESPN's Steve Phillips reported Thursday that the Royals were closing in on a four-year deal with the right-hander worth a reported $45 million.
Meche, a six-year veteran, has a career record of 55-44 and a 4.65 earned-run average, all with the Seattle Mariners (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sea). He was 11-8 for the Mariners last season with a 4.48 ERA. The Toronto Blue Jays (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tor) and Chicago Cubs (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chn) also were in the running for Meche.

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The Royals also picked up the prize player in the rule V draft, Joakim Soria (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Joakim-Soria.shtml). (and they released Fat Elvis to make room for Soria!!!!)

[stevew]

Wow, I wish I could have developed a nicer curveball in little league. With what these slightly above replacement level pitchers are getting paid.

[Ryche]

It's frustrating watching the Twins do absolutely nothing to help their pitching or lineup, but at the same time, I can't say I'd be very happy if they had done a deal like the Royals did for Meche either. The price for average pitchers is just mind boggling right now.

[SelzShoes]

Tony LaRussa is interested in Bonds (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2689475). It is like he wants to have a relationship with every big name linked to 'roids. Conseco and McGwire both came up under his regime in Oakland. Jason Giambi was a favorite of his in Oakland. And now Bonds?

[Caution: stone throwing with no real evidence to follow, just want to get a nagging thought out of my mind]

It just seems to me maybe there is too much focus on the Bay Area and maybe the Mitchell Commission should sit down and talk to Mr. LaRussa about what he knew and when he knew it. Too many pitchers and players just seem to explode under his guidence (Carpenter, Cal Eldred--even Albert Pujols) before falling apart with injuries (Edmonds, Vina and Rolen come to mind). I have no evidence, I have no proof. That is, as we are always reminded by pundits, the sad fact of the 'roid era, we only have speculation. But in the 24/7 media cycle, the best place to do the worst would seem to be flyover country.

[SackAttack]

He just signed Luis Gonzales to a 1 year, $7 million deal - I like him again. :D When you have Kemp, Loney, Ethier - well, signing Luis sure makes a lot of sense.

Agreed, the signing marginalizes Loney, but Kemp I don't think is really ready yet. I'm okay with giving him one more year to season.

Loney I think is going to wind up being kinda like Ethier in that he'll start about 80 games or so and be a sub the rest - except I think he's going to sub in both LF and 1B.

[SelzShoes]

The Gonzalez is a very good signing for LA at the price. If Gonzo gets "old" and production drops, there is a great set of kids to fill the gaps. If Gonzo produces a decent season, then it is another year of seasoning for the kids--a win/win for the Dodgers.

[Tyrith]

A few comments:

-Adam Laroche for Mike Gonzalez would have been an INSANELY bad deal for the Braves.
-I think we all know how stupid the Meche and Lilly contracts are.
-Say what you will about Colletti and Stoneman, they both overpaid about 30 million bucks for crappy center fielders.
-At the time, I thought the Astros were overpaying Roy Oswalt in order to pacify him after all the (DUMB) trade rumors in July. Now I'm laughing at all these other teams paying only 30 million bucks less for crap, while we have one of the 5-10 best starters in the league, a guy who has been extremely consistent and doesn't get hurt.
-The Astros need to pay Andy Pettite whatever he wants to get him to stay for next year. It might take 13 million bucks, but for a one year commitment? It will give all of our young arms time to grow up some more; we can figure who to toss and who not to, and it keeps us in the race for Clemens if we decide we want him when he gets around to playing in June or so. Screw Aubrey Huff, we need Andy!

[Arles]

I think adding Gonzo is an OK move for LA. Still, his production has been on a steep decline (OPS in last 4 seasons - .934, .866, .825, .796). He's going to be a nice addition to the clubhouse though (provided he starts).

[JS19]

What sense at all does this Gil Meche signing make? I view Meche as a genius for taking 45M from them, but why in the hell would KC make this move? It's not as if he's going to put them over the top and make them a contender. Why in the hell waste that kind of money on a guy who's not that good anyway, and not gonna make one difference where the team finishes whether he's there or not. I think i'm still shocked from reading about his signing.

[k0ruptr]

Not sure what to think about the garcia deal, McCarthy hasnt proven crap. so I think this is a rotation downgrade, and certainly won't help in the present. maybe the future

[stevew]

Philly picking up Freddy Garcia could be a good move. Although I think he will probably give up 40 plus homers this year.

[Ksyrup]

Royals' reported deal with Meche worth $45 million

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<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 10px" vAlign=top><!-- begin leftcol --><!-- template inline --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=2></TD><TD width=65>http://espn.starwave.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6266.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD width=2></TD><TD width=65>Meche</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
The Gil Meche (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6266) sweepstakes are nearly over, and the Kansas City Royals (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=kan) are looking like the winners.

ESPN's Steve Phillips reported Thursday that the Royals were closing in on a four-year deal with the right-hander worth a reported $45 million.
Meche, a six-year veteran, has a career record of 55-44 and a 4.65 earned-run average, all with the Seattle Mariners (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sea). He was 11-8 for the Mariners last season with a 4.48 ERA. The Toronto Blue Jays (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tor) and Chicago Cubs (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chn) also were in the running for Meche.

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The Royals also picked up the prize player in the rule V draft, Joakim Soria (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Joakim-Soria.shtml). (and they released Fat Elvis to make room for Soria!!!!)


Um...ESPN is reporting the Meche deal to be 5 years, $55M. :eek:

[Mr. Wednesday]

Philly picking up Freddy Garcia could be a good move. Although I think he will probably give up 40 plus homers this year.

League-wise, he's going in the right direction, I would generally expect his performance to improve next season.

[stevew]

Um...ESPN is reporting the Meche deal to be 5 years, $55M. :eek:

Wow. I thought average ass padilla backing up the money truck was bad enough, but I'm pretty speechless. This is some guy I've never even heard of, who looks to be about a #3 or 4 starter who is getting paid real money. Suddenly the Pat Burrells of this world are underpaid.

[Fighter of Foo]

League-wise, he's going in the right direction, I would generally expect his performance to improve next season.

If he has gopheritis like he did this year, he won't.

[Bearcat729]

Uh anyone know why would the Reds need or want Josh Hamilton?

[dawgfan]

The Gil Meche sweepstakes are nearly over, and the Kansas City Royals are looking like the losers.

I corrected that for ESPN.

[Chief Rum]

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2689475]Too many pitchers and players just seem to explode under his guidence (Carpenter, Cal Eldred--even Albert Pujols) before falling apart with injuries (Edmonds, Vina and Rolen come to mind).

Not saying Edmonds never used, but I wanted to point out as an Angels fan that he was doing quite well with the Angels for several years before going to the Cards. Actually, he wasn't that well regarded as a minor leaguer in the early 90s, but when he got to Anaheim, he suddenly started having 30 HR years and has pretty much been doing it ever since. So if Edmonds is using, he has been using since 1994, seven years before he was dealt to the Cards (and to LaRussa).

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if Edmonds used. He had some "anger" moments with the Angels and was always known as a bit of a jerk around here (although I loved watching him play CF).

Also, Edmonds had injury problems galore his whole career before he got to the Cards, especially in 1999-2000.

[watravaler]

If he has gopheritis like he did this year, he won't.

He developed a prettty nasty split-finger in the last two months of the season that really helped, but you couldn't help but notice the 5-10 mph drop in velocity on his fastball from '04. Something is wrong with this arm...

[miami_fan]

Tony LaRussa is interested in Bonds (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2689475). It is like he wants to have a relationship with every big name linked to 'roids. Conseco and McGwire both came up under his regime in Oakland. Jason Giambi was a favorite of his in Oakland. And now Bonds?

[Caution: stone throwing with no real evidence to follow, just want to get a nagging thought out of my mind]

It just seems to me maybe there is too much focus on the Bay Area and maybe the Mitchell Commission should sit down and talk to Mr. LaRussa about what he knew and when he knew it. Too many pitchers and players just seem to explode under his guidence (Carpenter, Cal Eldred--even Albert Pujols) before falling apart with injuries (Edmonds, Vina and Rolen come to mind). I have no evidence, I have no proof. That is, as we are always reminded by pundits, the sad fact of the 'roid era, we only have speculation. But in the 24/7 media cycle, the best place to do the worst would seem to be flyover country.

When is the Mitchell Comission report do out anyway?:rolleyes:

[SelzShoes]

Not saying Edmonds never used, but I wanted to point out as an Angels fan that he was doing quite well with the Angels for several years before going to the Cards. Actually, he wasn't that well regarded as a minor leaguer in the early 90s, but when he got to Anaheim, he suddenly started having 30 HR years and has pretty much been doing it ever since. So if Edmonds is using, he has been using since 1994, seven years before he was dealt to the Cards (and to LaRussa).

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if Edmonds used. He had some "anger" moments with the Angels and was always known as a bit of a jerk around here (although I loved watching him play CF).

Also, Edmonds had injury problems galore his whole career before he got to the Cards, especially in 1999-2000.

I actually have a 1994 preview magazine that notes "Edmonds doesn't hit for much power and his speed is just average." It does say he "plays the outfield with such a flair," which is true.

Maybe it is just me being cynical, but it seems like there is so much focus on Bonds everyone else gets overlooked. I personally think a great case can be built that Kevin Elster (http://www.baseball-reference.com/e/elsteke01.shtml) was a user, but no one seems to care about that. I wonder how much of Joe Borowski's success and subsequent injury problems are 'roids related; it's not just LaRussa I have my questions about.

[dawgfan]

Given how utterly disgusted I am with Bavasi right now, I present this brilliantly bitter but funny speculation on what went down at the Winter Meetings, courtesy of Jeff Sullivan of Lookout Landing (an excellent Mariners blog):

Setting: Orlando, FL, at a bar and lounge packed with MLB executives near the Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin Resort.

Bill Bavasi and Mike Flanagan chat over sandwiches.

Bavasi: We're looking for a starter or two.
Flanagan: :chewing:
Bavasi: We've got first basemen to move.
Flanagan: :chewing:
Bavasi: Broussard, Sexson, they can both be had.
Flanagan: :chewing:
Bavasi: I was thinking, I dunno, Sexson for Bedard? How's that sound?
Flanagan: :chewing:
*Bavasi: Just tell me when you're done.
Flanagan: :hurries chewing:
Flanagan: :swallows:
Flanagan: :smiles, rubs stomach:
Bavasi: So anyway, what about-
Flanagan: No.

Hours later, Bill Bavasi and Theo Epstein chat over tequila.

Bavasi: I dunno man, I just...I just dunno.
Epstein: What's not to like! Bats! Pitching! to like-...bats!
Bavasi: Haha!
Epstein: I'm so blitzed right now!
Bavasi: Haha yeah!
Epstein: Okay anyway anyway anyway
Bavasi: Yeah anyway
Epstein: :stifles laughter:
Bavasi: Shut up! Shut up let's do this!
Bowden: SPRING BREAK!
Epstein: Manny go
Bowden: WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
Bavasi: You want arms, I have arms.
Epstein: You have two arms!
Bavasi: I have two arms! Haha!
Epstein: Dude Manny just wants to go and I just want to like
Epstein: to like
Epstein: to do that
Epstein: for him.
Bavasi: Yeah yeah totally
Bavasi: I'd be to glad have him
Epstein: And I'd be glad for you to be glad
Epstein: to have him
Bavasi: Okay okay, Manny for Raul Soriano
Bavasi: Soriano Ibanez
Bavasi: Kenji Ibanez
Bavasi: Kenji Putz
Bavasi: Fuck me what's his name
Epstein: Dude there's a J
Epstein: A J...Jackson
Epstein: Jigglesworth
Epstein: Jones! Jones!
Bavasi: Jones
Bavasi: Jones and J for Manny
Bavasi: I mean Jones and JJ
Bavasi: I mean John and AJ
Bavasi: fuck
Epstein: Holy shit dude holy shit!
Epstein: This is my song!
Bavasi: Haha!
Epstein: YOU NEVER CLOSE YOUR EYES ANYMORE
Epstein: IN YOUR FINGERTIPS
Epstein: THERE'S NOOOOOOOO TENDERNESS LIKE BEFORE
Bavasi: shit where's the can

That night, Bill Bavasi, Brian Sabean, and John Schuerholz chat over gin.

Schuerholz: It's totally gonna work
Schuerholz: Totally
Schuerholz: Just listen to me
Schuerholz: Hudson goes and Sexson goes and Benitez goes
Bavasi: Okay
Schuerholz: And Soriano goes and LaRoche goes and this other guy goes
Sabean: Yeah
Schuerholz: And this other guy goes
Bavasi: Right.
Schuerholz: That's all I've got.
Bavasi: Man that's out there
Bavasi: Freaky
Sabean: I bet you I can break this table with my forehead
Bavasi: I bet you can't!
Sabean: I bet I can!
Bowden: SPRING BREAK!
Schuerholz: I bet neither of you can!
Bowden: WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
Sabean: Fuck you check this out
Sabean: :smashes forehead against table:
Sabean: :breaks table in half:
Schuerholz: Holy shit
Bavasi: No way
Sabean: I fuckin told you!
Bavasi: That's nothing I'm gonna break two tables
Bavasi: watch
Bavasi: :stacks two tables:
Bavasi: Okay this is gonna be so awesome
Bavasi: :smashes forehead against tables:
Bavasi: :tables don't break:
Bavasi: :hunched over, motionless:
Sabean: What a pussy
Schuerholz: Get me a marker!
Schuerholz: Get me a marker!
Sabean: I have one right here man
Schuerholz: Oh kickass gimme that
Schuerholz: Check this out

Bill Bavasi wakes up the next morning.

Bavasi: oh shit
Bavasi: oh shit my head
Shapiro: For how much?
Bavasi: God. What?
Shapiro: How much are you looking for? Sizemore? Hafner? Sabathia? What is it?
Bavasi: the hell are you talking about
Shapiro: For Felix.
Bavasi: For Felix?
Shapiro: Yeah, what's his price?
Bavasi: Felix doesn't have a price, he's not available.
Bowden: SPRING BREAK!!
Shapiro: Then why is that written all over your face?
Bavasi: What written
Bavasi: oh fuck
Bavasi: :checks reflective window:
Bavasi: oh fuck
Bavasi: oh fuck you guys
Schuerholz: :high-five:
Sabean: :high-five:

After cleaning himself up and grabbing a quick snack, Bill Bavasi meets Ned Colletti at the bar to chat over whiskey. Colletti has had a head start.

Bavasi: Hey man, how's it going?
Colletti: FUCK YOU MAN
Colletti: FUCK YOU
Bavasi: Dude what's the deal?
Colletti: I'M JUST TRYING TO TALK TO YOU
Colletti: AND YOU KEEP GIVING ME ATTITUDE
Colletti: FUCK YOU
Bavasi: I just-
Colletti: FUCK
Bavasi: Brad Penny-
Colletti: YOU
Bavasi: I think you've had enough of that stuff for one night.
Colletti: LEAVE ME ALONE MOTHERFUCKER
Colletti: SHIT YOU'RE ALL LIKE 'I'M GOING TO GO JUDGE THAT FUCKER'
Colletti: WELL FUCK YOU
Colletti's Assistant: Ned, I think the Royals want to part ways with Angel Berroa.
Colletti: GET ME A PHONE
Colletti: FUCK

Much later that night, Bill Bavasi, Brian Cashman, Pat Gillick, and Wayne Krivsky are treated to Ciclon and Brain Erasers by Jim Bowden.

Krivsky:
Gillick:
Cashman:
Bavasi:
Bowden:
Gillick: :hand twitches:
Bavasi:
Krivsky:
Bartender: Come on guys, time to go. We're closing.
Cashman:
Gillick:
Bowden:
Bartender: I'm not dicking around. Get out of here.
Bavasi:
Krivsky:
Bartender: God.
Bowden:
Bouncer: :drags GM's out the door by their feet:

Bill Bavasi wakes up the next morning.

Bavasi: oh shit
Bavasi: oh shit my head
Daniels: Morning, Bill.
Bavasi: huh
Bavasi: oh hey jon
Daniels: How was your night?
Bavasi: shit
Bavasi: you should come out with us next time
Bavasi: you'd love it
Daniels: You know I'm not allowed into those places.
Bavasi: oh yeah
Bavasi: how much longer until the big 2-1
Daniels: Only 157 and a half days to go!
Bavasi: thats the spirit
Bowden: SPRING BREAK!
Bowden: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

After a long day of laying out by the pool, Bill Bavasi meets John Schuerholz at the bar to chat over beer.

Schuerholz: Long time no see!
Bavasi: Haha
Schuerholz: How's your forehead man?
Bavasi: Haha fuck you guy fuck you
Schuerholz: Okay so what's up my man
Bavasi: You hear about Schmidttie
Bavasi: Schmidtarino
Bavasi: Schmidtarooski
Schuerholz: Yeah man.
Schuerholz: Tough break.
Schuerholz: I thought he was yours!
Bavasi: Me too! Haha
Bavasi: It sucks, it's like
Bavasi: It's like all these pitchers are disappearing before I can even make a move!
Schuerholz: I know!
Schuerholz: It's a crazy market.
Bavasi: Crazy.
Schuerholz: You know I've got an arm or two.
Schuerholz: I can always help out a friend.
Bowden: SPRING BREAK!!
Bavasi: Oh yeah?
Bavasi: Man I'd really appreciate it
Schuerholz: I mean it's nothing much or anything
Bavasi: Who's that? I'm desperate
Bavasi: I need a slumpbuster haha
Schuerholz: Just Horacio. You know Horacio.
Bavasi: Oh yeah haha that dumbshit
Bavasi: What do you want, like Foppert or Fruto or something
Schuerholz: Yeah nothing much. Actually a guy like Fruto might work real well.
Bowden: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
Waitress: Here are those spicy chicken fingers you ordered.
Schuerholz: Hey, thanks doll.
Waitress: Can I get you guys anything else?
Schuerholz: No, we're good for now. Thanks!
Bavasi: Haha
Schuerholz: What?
Bavasi: Haha
Schuerholz: Why are you laughing?
Bavasi: Nothing
Schuerholz: No seriously man what's up?
Bavasi: I was just thinking
Bavasi: Haha
Bavasi: That's a lot of chicken fingers
Schuerholz: Yeah I know it's a great deal
Bavasi: I wonder if you could eat them all at once
Schuerholz: I dunno man this is like five pounds of meat
Bavasi: Dude you gotta find out
Bavasi: Dude you gotta find out!
Schuerholz: I've barely even eaten anything today, I just wanted to enjoy these with my beer.
Bavasi: C'mon dude you gotta try!
Schuerholz: Haha no way man
Bavasi: I'll totally pay you if you do
Schuerholz: Oh I'm not falling for THAT one again you little welcher!
Bavasi: Haha fuck you man
Bavasi: Stuff all those chicken fingers in your mouth
Bavasi: And I'll trade you for Horacio
Schuerholz: I don't even care
Bavasi: I'll trade you Soriano
Schuerholz: You serious?
Bavasi: Haha only if you put them all in your mouth!
Bavasi: At once
Bavasi: And you have to chew and swallow it all without puking
Schuerholz: So if I take all this chicken and eat it all at once
Schuerholz: You'll give me Soriano for Horacio
Bavasi: But only if you finish it all!
Bavasi: Without puking
Schuerholz: Okay I'm gonna try I'm gonna try
Bavasi: Dude hold up hold up
Bavasi: We need a judge
Bavasi: An ump haha
Schuerholz: Good call
Bavasi: Hey Kevin get over here
Towers: what up
Bavasi: Hey we need you to judge something
Bavasi: John's gonna try to eat all this chicken at once
Bavasi: But he has to finish it all
Bavasi: Or else the deal's off
Bavasi: Without puking
Towers: hey john
Schuerholz: Hey
Towers: ok
Bavasi: Okay ready?
Schuerholz: Fuck you for doing this to me man
Bavasi: Haha
Bavasi: Okay
Schuerholz: Okay
Bavasi: Okay go! Go go go go!
Schuerholz: :stuffs chicken in his mouth:
Schuerholz: :strategically places strips in cheek, under tongue:
Schuerholz: :forces more chicken into mouth:
Bavasi: Haha no way no way
Schuerholz: :puts every chicken finger in mouth:
Schuerholz: :chews, struggles:
Schuerholz: :chews:
Schuerholz: :finishes:
Schuerholz: :opens mouth:
Towers: empty
Bavasi: AHAHAHAH NO WAY HE DID IT! NO WAY NO FUCKIN WAY
Bavasi: CLASSIC THAT'S CLASSIC
Schuerholz: Holy shit I'm gonna be sick
Bavasi: CLASSIC
Schuerholz: A deal's a deal man, Horacio's all yours!
Bavasi: OH MY GOD I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU JUST DID THAT
Schuerholz: Verbal contract man, that trade's a done deal. No going back on it now!
Bavasi: WHATEVER DUDE YOU FUCKIN EARNED IT
Bavasi: CLASSIC!
Beane: Hey Bill, can I buy you a drink?

hxxp://www.lookoutlanding.com/story/2006/12/7/173611/736#readmore

[Chief Rum]

I actually have a 1994 preview magazine that notes "Edmonds doesn't hit for much power and his speed is just average." It does say he "plays the outfield with such a flair," which is true.

lol...looks like my memory is working just fine. :) Yeah, when he started hitting bombs, it was surprising. Everyone said he had the frame for it, but just developed late. Hmmm...

[TazFTW]

Bonds is back with the Giants 1 year for $16 million.

[Chief Rum]

Later on that evening, Bavasi meets up with Stoneman:

Bavasi: Hey, Bill, how're my ballplayers doing?
Stoneman:
Bavasi (after a pause): Oh yeah, you let them all go. Jarrod says hi.
Stoneman:
Bavasi (after a pause): So I hear you're looking for a power bat on a corner. I got a few, Sexson, Broussard, even Beltre...
Stoneman:
Bavasi (after a pause): ...so what do you think? Maybe you could swing me a Santana or a Shields for one of those guys?
Stoneman:
Bavasi (after a pause): Okay...
Bavasi: Ummm...
Bavasi: A horse goes into a bar, and the bartender says, "Why the long face?" hahaha
Bavasi (after a pause and looking around): You breathing there, Bill?
Bavasi Checks Stoneman's pulse, looks around again, takes Stoneman's wallet...
Bavasi: Say, good luck with that living thing you're trying to do...cya (walks away)
Stoneman (falls over):

[Ksyrup]

lol...looks like my memory is working just fine. :) Yeah, when he started hitting bombs, it was surprising. Everyone said he had the frame for it, but just developed late. Hmmm...

The complication to such connect-the-dots arguments is that historically (and presumably without drugs) many hitters have "developed" their power and did not resemble the player they looked like in their teens or early 20s.

[oykib]

The complication to such connect-the-dots arguments is that historically (and presumably without drugs) many hitters have "developed" their power and did not resemble the player they looked like in their teens or early 20s.

That and it seems that the main purpose of steroid use has, for the most part, not been increasing homerun numbers. Bonds, Caminitti, and Canseco sure.

But McGwire, even, was more about durability.

Most of these guys that have been caught were either pitchers or speed guys.

[vtbub]

Andy Pettite

16-1 yr w/the Yankees per AP

[TazFTW]

Andy Pettite

16-1 yr w/the Yankees per AP

I wonder if Clemens will follow.

[JeeberD]

Fuck

[Ksyrup]

I never thought Pettitte was that great a pitcher, but I always liked him even when he was a Yankee. However, now I truly hope he blows out his elbow while getting dressed in the clubhouse before the first "pitchers and catchers report" session. Honestly, for someone that close to retiring and who left NY over a couple of million 3 years ago to be near family, the idea that he would let $2M get in the way of staying home (reports are that if the Astros offer had been $14M instead of $12M, he would have stayed), considering the millions he's already earned, is ridiculous to me. Either that, or he always intended to go back to NY and he's using te money excuse to lay the blame on the Astros.

Either way, I'll be rooting for him to lose, suck, or get hurt. Way to get me motivated against the Yankees so early, Andy!

[Ksyrup]

I love how the media (Jayson Stark, my favorite writer, in particular) are turning this around on the Astros. Not a word of mention about whether Pettitte was talking out of both sides of his mouth about retirement and being near family and deciding to go back to NY for $2M. It's all about how the Astros could have let this happen. Of course, the player option probably figured into it to, but again, if you're that close to retiring, then playing for 2 years should be far, far down on the list of possibilities.

[JS19]

Cubs sign Marquis, who apparently has won 194 games in his 7 yr career.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2691994

[John Galt]

Cubs sign Marquis, who apparently has won 194 games in his 7 yr career.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2691994

That is a bizarre signing and a bizarre typo. I think signing the player with the worst ERA (6.02) in the worst league to three years for over $20 million is just weird. I am hereby declaring myself a free agent and am signing with an agent. In this market, I think my 50 MPH fastball should be worth at least $4 million over 2 years.

[Cuckoo]

Yeah, I've never been a big Marquis fan, but apparently the Cubs think they can do something with him. Out of all the big money they've spent lately, that's the only signing I've disliked.

[Atocep]

Marquis is terrible and he won't listen to pitching coaches. This is a guy that when he left Atlanta said something along the lines of "I didn't learn a damn thing from Leo Mazzone" and one of the reasons he fell out of favor in St. Louis (other than the fact he sucks) was problems with Dave Duncan. Now he gets paired with one of the worst pitching coaches in baseball.

[Toddzilla]

Marquis is terrible and he won't listen to pitching coaches. This is a guy that when he left Atlanta said something along the lines of "I didn't learn a damn thing from Leo Mazzone" and one of the reasons he fell out of favor in St. Louis (other than the fact he sucks) was problems with Dave Duncan. Now he gets paired with one of the worst pitching coaches in baseball.Well, at the very least if he tries to pull that shit with Lou Pinella, he'll either be in AAA on on waivers in short order.

[JS19]

That is a bizarre signing and a bizarre typo. I think signing the player with the worst ERA (6.02) in the worst league to three years for over $20 million is just weird. I am hereby declaring myself a free agent and am signing with an agent. In this market, I think my 50 MPH fastball should be worst at least $4 million over 2 years.

You are selling yourself short, at least 4M per.

[sterlingice]

I don't think this was mentioned yet, but the Royals also signed Dotel to close for them at 1/$5M. He wanted to close, they needed a closer even if it hasn't gone well in the past. Not a bad deal and he could be flipped for decent players at the trade deadline if he does well.

SI

[SelzShoes]

Marquis is terrible and he won't listen to pitching coaches. This is a guy that when he left Atlanta said something along the lines of "I didn't learn a damn thing from Leo Mazzone" and one of the reasons he fell out of favor in St. Louis (other than the fact he sucks) was problems with Dave Duncan. Now he gets paired with one of the worst pitching coaches in baseball.
I don't trust anyone who doesn't listen to Mazzone--but it is a better plan than "Let's hope Mark Prior and Kerry Wood are healthy."

[sterlingice]

Back to Gil Meche, it's absolutely ludicrous money for a #3/4ish starter. For the Royals, he instantly steps in as their best pitcher, but that's damning with faint praise if ever there was such a thing. I think this is going to be one of those moves they badly regret in a couple of years but KC really wanted to send the message they could compete with other teams (Blue Jays and Cubs, in this case) for big money guys and win.

I think this pair of statistical analyses from the blog Royals Review sums up everything there is about Gil Meche. The first shows how truly mediocre to below average he's been while the second shows there is some prescedent that someone with his current stats can really turn it on about this point in his career.



ESPN and others report that the Gil Meche deal is finalized. He's a Royal (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2689724).
For the next 5 years. Original Diary on Meche here (http://www.royalsreview.com/story/2006/12/7/101323/600).

Meche stats at baseball-reference here (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mechegi01.shtml).Hilarious response from Lookout Landing here (http://www.lookoutlanding.com/story/2006/12/7/105717/521)

It may be a little too quicky and dirty, but here's Gil's ERA+ numbers since 2003.

Gil Meche ERA+
2003- 97
2004- 86
2005- 85
2006- 96

Remember, ERA+ is park-adjusted. Meche's career ERA is 4.65, in 815 innings.

Returning to Meche, he'll be 28 next season, so its not as if we're not even sure he'll be upright by the time his deal expires. I've never thought much of him to be honest. However, check his Similarity Score comps:

Gil Meche: Most Similar Pitchers Through Age 27
1.Jason Marquis (972)
2. Hank Johnson (968)
3. Jason Jennings (959)
4. Chris Carpenter (959)
5. Jason Schmidt (958)
6. Matt Clement (956)
7. Shawn Estes (955)

Well that certainly looks promising: thumbs up on the Carpenter and Schmidt and Jennings, thumbs sideways on Marquis and Estes. Hank Johnson, by the way, was a 1920s and 30s hurler for the Yankees and three other teams (http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/johnsha01.shtml). Hank died in 1982.


SI

[dawgfan]

Good luck with Gil. He's got pretty good stuff, but not as good as many will hype it to be. He just doesn't have good enough command consistently to be a good pitcher - there will be innings at a time where he looks pretty good, but then he'll follow with innings where every count goes full. Too many of his games find him at 100+ pitches after 5 innings, one of the reasons why he's never cracked 200 innings in a season.

The money he's going to make is absolutely ridiculous given his career so far, but what can you say when the whole pitching market has gone completely insane this off-season. Gil's a nice guy and I don't wish him ill, but I will be very, very surprised if he improves upon his performance for Seattle.

[Young Drachma]

I never thought Pettitte was that great a pitcher, but I always liked him even when he was a Yankee. However, now I truly hope he blows out his elbow while getting dressed in the clubhouse before the first "pitchers and catchers report" session. Honestly, for someone that close to retiring and who left NY over a couple of million 3 years ago to be near family, the idea that he would let $2M get in the way of staying home (reports are that if the Astros offer had been $14M instead of $12M, he would have stayed), considering the millions he's already earned, is ridiculous to me. Either that, or he always intended to go back to NY and he's using te money excuse to lay the blame on the Astros.

Either way, I'll be rooting for him to lose, suck, or get hurt. Way to get me motivated against the Yankees so early, Andy!

I think this time around, he'll understand the wrath of NY fans if he doesn't win 20 games. And he won't. Roger probably won't go back to join him this time. I bet that's the Yankees MO. Sign Pettite and hope Roger follows along.

[SirFozzie]

Interesting article on how the Japanese people and media expect, (nearly DEMAND) that Matsuzaka sign with the Sox

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/columns/story?id=2693833&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos2

[JS19]

Darren Oliver signed a 1 yr, 1.5M deal with the Angels. I know it's not a big move, just curious as to why the Mets wouldn't have tried to bring him back if that's all it was gonna take.

[TRO]

55 Million is too much for Meche "given his career" but the figures thrown around for Matsuzaka are OK? Matsuzaka has yet to thrown a major league inning.

I do think my Royals overpaid on Meche and I do think Matsuzaka looks like an ace in the making but I think part of the Meche dumping to quasi-Royals dumping. If Meche signed with the Cubs for 4 years 40M, I don't think we hear any of this non-sense.

Does an extra million a year make him an albatross? Not in my view. Is the 5th year risky? Certainly.

I'd rather take that risk on a pitcher with upside like Meche than continue to throw 4-5M type contracts at Chuck Knoblach, Juan Gonazalez, Benito Santiago, Reggie Sanders etc.

I like the way Dayton Moore is doing things. I eagerly await 2008.

[Logan]

Darren Oliver signed a 1 yr, 1.5M deal with the Angels. I know it's not a big move, just curious as to why the Mets wouldn't have tried to bring him back if that's all it was gonna take.

I think they're really comfortable with a number of the excess starting pitchers on the roster filling in his role. Eventually, you have to get these guys on the major league roster. Plus, the chances of Oliver duplicating last year's success (especially at 36 years old) is pretty low.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I do think my Royals overpaid on Meche and I do think Matsuzaka looks like an ace in the making but I think part of the Meche dumping to quasi-Royals dumping. If Meche signed with the Cubs for 4 years 40M, I don't think we hear any of this non-sense.

The difference is that if the Cubs signed him for that much, they could afford it and it wouldn't be a big deal. A club like the Royals investing so much on a questionable player is what's raising the eyebrows. The Royals don't have the same room for error that the Cubs or Red Sox have.

[SackAttack]

The difference is that if the Cubs signed him for that much, they could afford it and it wouldn't be a big deal. A club like the Royals investing so much on a questionable player is what's raising the eyebrows. The Royals don't have the same room for error that the Cubs or Red Sox have.

On the other hand, the Royals *have* to flash the cash to get taken seriously by free agents, and I think they probably have a better shot of that with the mid-level FAs than with the top-shelf guys right now.

If they can show improvement, while those are still terrible contracts, they might be able to get the kids to stay and attract future FA talent as well.

It's a gamble, no doubt, but one they very nearly have to make unless they somehow manage to pull an Oakland-like run of playoff berths out of their collective asses.

[oykib]

On the other hand, the Royals *have* to flash the cash to get taken seriously by free agents, and I think they probably have a better shot of that with the mid-level FAs than with the top-shelf guys right now.

If they can show improvement, while those are still terrible contracts, they might be able to get the kids to stay and attract future FA talent as well.

It's a gamble, no doubt, but one they very nearly have to make unless they somehow manage to pull an Oakland-like run of playoff berths out of their collective asses.

I totally disagree. There is a difference between the small market teams that have been successful and teams like the Royals and Pirates. The teams that stay bad are the ones that throw money away on bad players. The good ones (Minnesota, Oakland, Florida) understand that you build the foundation with prospects and then add Free agents when you get close.

You guys play BM or OotP, don't you? What do you do when you run a lousy franchise? You basically go empty cupboard and put all your resources into your farm system and scouting.

The R's are gonna suck for the forseeable future anyway. The 90th percentile projection of Meche has him as what, a 15-game winner with an ERA twenty percent better than the league. What's that worth to the Royals? That moves them from 71 wins to 74 wins.

Now, what would the benefit be to putting 11 million dollars a year into a baseball academy in the Dominican and another in Venezuela with about twenty scouts flying around Asia?

I guaruntee that they'd produce at least one Gil Meche-quality pitcher in five years along with a bunch of prospects, which are the real currency of a small market team.

[SackAttack]

I totally disagree. There is a difference between the small market teams that have been successful and teams like the Royals and Pirates. The teams that stay bad are the ones that throw money away on bad players. The good ones (Minnesota, Oakland, Florida) understand that ou build the foundation with prospects and then add Free agents when you get close.

You guys play BM or OotP, don't you? What do you do when you run a lousy franchise? You basically go empty cupboard and put all your resources into your farm system and scouting.

The R's are gonna suck for the forseeable future anyway. The 90th percentile projection of Meche has as what, a 15-game winner with an ERA twenty percent better than the league. What's that worth to the Royals? That moves them from 71 wins to 74 wins.

Now, what would the benefit be to putting 11 million dollars a year into a baseball academy in the Dominican and another in Venezuela with about twenty scouts flying around Asia.

I guaruntee that you'd produce at least one Gil Meche quality pitcher in five years along with a bunch of prospects which are the real currency of a small market team.

Sure. But what have the Royals done in the last 10 years of futility? Put money into talent development? Not so much.

They still need to do THAT, but in the meantime, they need to maintain some semblance of credibility with both the fans and free agents. You don't make a Gil Meche signing at the expense of building a youth development foundation...but you still have to send the signal that you're not completely focused on that aspect of team-building, either.

That'll help you *retain* the young talent you've got now as they approach free agency, keep people coming to the ballpark because it helps dispel the illusion that you're content to lose games so long as you keep shoveling in those revenue sharing dollars, and maybe lay a foundation for the near future where you CAN get the more talented free agents.

Also, if you do it right, by the time you get to the point where the talented free agents are listening to you, you've built a solid enough youth foundation that, as you say, you're adding the key pieces when you get close.

If you're a lousy small-market team, spending money on a Meche-style contract is not inherently all bad, if it's done in concert with the moves you NEED to be making for the future.

If you're signing a Meche at that kind of money just because, and you're not complementing the moves by doing the things that you *need* to be, you're just pissing money away and perpetuating your cycle of crappiness without accomplishing a thing.

Look at the Marlins. They've got a fantastic crop of young players that will only get better, but if they don't demonstrate a willingness to spend money at some point here - and Ivan Rodriguez doesn't really count any longer after they ripped apart the team and fielded basically 23 mini-sal guys, plus Cabrera and Willis - then they aren't going to be *able* to add free agents during their upcoming window of opportunity.

[dawgfan]

55 Million is too much for Meche "given his career" but the figures thrown around for Matsuzaka are OK? Matsuzaka has yet to thrown a major league inning.

I do think my Royals overpaid on Meche and I do think Matsuzaka looks like an ace in the making but I think part of the Meche dumping to quasi-Royals dumping. If Meche signed with the Cubs for 4 years 40M, I don't think we hear any of this non-sense.
Trust me - having suffered through Gil Meche and his "potential" for many years now, I was going to laugh at whatever team paid out the wazoo for him.

I'm having a real hard time finding any free agent pitcher signing - hell, pretty much any free agent signing this offseason that hasn't been completely nuts.

[oykib]

Sure. But what have the Royals done in the last 10 years of futility? Put money into talent development? Not so much.

They still need to do THAT, but in the meantime, they need to maintain some semblance of credibility with both the fans and free agents. You don't make a Gil Meche signing at the expense of building a youth development foundation...but you still have to send the signal that you're not completely focused on that aspect of team-building, either.

That'll help you *retain* the young talent you've got now as they approach free agency, keep people coming to the ballpark because it helps dispel the illusion that you're content to lose games so long as you keep shoveling in those revenue sharing dollars, and maybe lay a foundation for the near future where you CAN get the more talented free agents.

Also, if you do it right, by the time you get to the point where the talented free agents are listening to you, you've built a solid enough youth foundation that, as you say, you're adding the key pieces when you get close.

If you're a lousy small-market team, spending money on a Meche-style contract is not inherently all bad, if it's done in concert with the moves you NEED to be making for the future.

If you're signing a Meche at that kind of money just because, and you're not complementing the moves by doing the things that you *need* to be, you're just pissing money away and perpetuating your cycle of crappiness without accomplishing a thing.

Look at the Marlins. They've got a fantastic crop of young players that will only get better, but if they don't demonstrate a willingness to spend money at some point here - and Ivan Rodriguez doesn't really count any longer after they ripped apart the team and fielded basically 23 mini-sal guys, plus Cabrera and Willis - then they aren't going to be *able* to add free agents during their upcoming window of opportunity.

But the Royals and the like can't do both. Next year, will the A's any players making Meche's salary?

Meche is a waste of money. The only time you need that kind of acquisition is when you're close. You win eighty games with your prospects and free agents will see you as a legitimate option. The A's and Twins have no trouble signing free agents that they can afford.

[TRO]

Financially, I would certainly prefer that we spend 50M a year on signing and developing overseas prospects and avoiding free agency.

But the Royals have been getting drubbed for being cheap. It hurts our chances to keep young talent, it hurts our chances in signing rookie draftees, it hurts public morale.

We had to spend some money in Free Agency this year, no question about it. Batista just got a 3 year 24M contract. At 36 years old, that would have been a horrible signing for the Royals. In comparison to that kind of market, I'll gladly take Meche.

[sterlingice]

That is indeed my favorite double edged sword- you get bombed for being cheap and told to develop players but then everyone still blasts you for being cheap and you still have no credibility. I didn't see the thread started around here when the Royals added a new vice president position for player development, plucked the business manager away from the Angels, and raised salaries on their scouts. But they get blasted here for being cheap *and* being crazy.

SI

[oykib]

I never blast small market teams for being cheap. I am consistent in ridiculing them for stupidity-- just like I do for big market clubs.

Honestly, I rarely hear people blasting smaller clubs for cheapness-- with the exception of fire sales. But these tems have been collecting revenue sharing money for ten years now. Which of them is really developing great talent? The A's, Marlins, and Twins.

People pretty much leave the Twins alone. They used to get on them before they started winning. But winning shuts people up. And I can't remeber anyone whining about the A's being cheap.

[JS19]

Financially, I would certainly prefer that we spend 50M a year on signing and developing overseas prospects and avoiding free agency.

But the Royals have been getting drubbed for being cheap. It hurts our chances to keep young talent, it hurts our chances in signing rookie draftees, it hurts public morale.

We had to spend some money in Free Agency this year, no question about it. Batista just got a 3 year 24M contract. At 36 years old, that would have been a horrible signing for the Royals. In comparison to that kind of market, I'll gladly take Meche.

With that kind of market, why not take nobody at all? It's not like they are in the position of a contender, where they see how the market has developed and say "we gotta do what we gotta do now". The only thing Meche is gonna do is take up 50M that could have been spent elsewhere. Like its been said before, big difference between being cheap and stupid.

[Toddiec]

I see the Meche signing as an indicator of bigger things for the Royals. The Royals needed to make a statement that they are willing to shed the old "woe is us we are small market and can't afford more than $5 mil per year for free agents...please pity us and vote for more revenue sharing!" Sure we overpaid for Meche, but we had to to get him to come here (same with Dotel) AND to make a statement to other free agents (possibly in 08) that we are willing to play hardball and try to buy a winner.

The Royals are gearing up for 08. We have a good crop of minor leaguers who should be ready to jump in 08 (Gordon, Butler, Hochevar, Grienke) to mix with our core of Teahan, Dejesus, German (can that kid get some regular playing time please?) and whoever they get to replace Berroa (I can dream can't I?). I think that by making a statment this year we can hit the free agent market for one or two "difference" makers next year to help put us over the edge to a contending team for the division title. Do I think we will win the World Series? No. But I would be very disappointed if we are not contending for the Central crown every year by 2010.

Anyway, this offseason has me very excited about being a Royals fan. The new GM has certainly changed things. I will be going out to the ballpark a lot more often than I have in the past couple of years. So, if there are more excited Toddiec-like Royals fans who go out this year and you couple that with the revenue from the new TV contract and the new stadium renovation...this could be the rebirth of the Royals!

Or Meche blows his arm out and Dotel can't remember how to throw a fastball and Butler can't catch a ball and Berroa is our SS for the next three years and Grienke goes Postal and beans Gordon in batting practice which knocks him out for the year....

I love Royals baseball!

[Scarecrow]

Here's (http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/mariners/story/6271918p-5472393c.html) an interesting comparison when it comes to Meche.

"Zito made 34 starts last year. (Meche made 32.) Zito’s record was 16-10. (Meche’s was 11-8). Batters hit .257 against Zito. (They hit .256 against Meche.) Zito gave up 27 home runs. (Meche gave up 24.) Zito struck out 151 and walked 99. (Meche struck out 156 and walked 84.)

Zito pitched more innings, and his ERA of 3.83 was much better than Meche’s 4.48. But if you were not thrilled with Meche, who ended up with $55 million, you would not be thrilled with Zito, who likely will sign with somebody for twice that much."

I really like the signing by the Royals. It shows me that they do indeed plan on contending. And for those who just believe that KC was the worst team in the history of baseball, look at these stats (I used in an argument on another board):

Win/Loss records the last 100 games of the 2006 MLB season:
Chicago White Sox: 52-48
St. Louis Cardinals: 47-53
Kansas City Royals: 46-54
Chicago Cubs: 40-60

The Royals really have talent on the offensive side of the roster. Current guys like Teahan, Shealy, and DeJesus, plus the new guys coming up in Gordon, Butler, and Huber, will make a respectible team in 07. The problem arises that their talented pitching is still a year away.

Plus, no one (outside of KC) is laughing that Mike Sweeney is making $11M per year. At least his contract is up at the end of the season so it's a wash.

[oykib]

The point is the Royals can't waste the $30+ million that they are spending on Meche over the next three years. No one's signing with the Royals because Meche is on the team. That's a pipe dream.

FAs will sign with the Royals when they pay competetive salaries and can win 80 games a year. Wait and see if the youngsters are lokking like they are going to pan out and then add a guy like Meche.

The team is bad. they need to accept that they're gonna be bad for the next three years and let some other team waste money on an avevage starter.

[Toddiec]

But that is exactly the problem. The Royals will not win 80 games a year unless they are able to attract free agents. If the Royals do not become "respectable" and become a place that free agents will at least consider when they are analyzing their choices then we will stay stuck in mediocrity. Our youngsters will just go somewhere else after they put in their required service time with us (see Damon, Johnny and Beltran, Carlos) if we can't at least become a respectable team.

I respect your opinion oykib, but I just think that we have to set the precedent that under the new GM, the KC Royals are not afraid to take chances on free agents (and possibly overpay) because they want to win and will do whatever it takes to do that. That has to be our selling point if we ever want to attract the big name free agents someday.

[JS19]

So as a Royals fan you would rather have the team waste that kind of money on a back of the rotation starter because it shows that your team is willing to spend the money instead of having your GM just come out and say "We don't feel comfortable spending that kind of money in this market, we'll see what next year brings".

I'm somewhat torn between this question as a Mets fan. Usually I like the GMs who take stand and don't cave to the agents demands, but being that Zito is the only impact SP on the market, something in which the Mets need, maybe it's time the Mets bite the bullet and overpay. The Royals, however, are not in this situation, Gil Meche or not, they still aren't going to the playoffs, when/if they are ready to compete in a couple yrs, his 11M will only be holding them back.

[JPhillips]

I think overpaying makes sense if its an impact player. If the Royals ponied up for Zito it sends a strong message. I don't think the fans or other players are going to get fired up because of Gil Meche.

[Toddiec]

I agree with you JPhillips. I would just contend that Meche IS an impact signing for KC. You forget that our big free agent splashes for the last few years are Reggie Sanders and Juan Gonzalez. In my opinion, the contract for Meche has sent a message to the fanbase that the Royals are going to start at least trying to be competitive instead of just sitting back and saying woe is us. I am going to looks at the Meche deal through my rose colored glasses and focus on that Chris Carpenter comparable pitcher stat that has been posted before in this thread and believe that this is a great signing for us until I am proven wrong (which I hope never happens!) Royals fans here in the KC area are just begging for an excuse to get back behind the team and I think this offseason of moves gives them a great excuse to do so.

[Ksyrup]

I thought this was hilarious:


Batista said he met with Seattle general manager Bill Bavasi two weeks ago in his native Dominican Republic.

"The first thing I told him is, 'Let's get this out of the way right now: I don't pitch with my birth certificate, so don't bring up my age,' " he said. "I've only been hurt once in my entire career. You can rely on me because I will always be there to take the ball."


In other words..."Don't ask me how old I really am because I'd hate to lie to your face."

[dawgfan]

If Meche is ever going to become more than an average pitcher (and I'm being a bit generous in calling him that), he needs to do one (or both) of the following:

1) Learn a new pitch or refine an existing one that improves his ability to miss bats;

2) Improve his overall command

Last year Meche had his best strikeout ratio, but his walk rate was also above his career norm. He's always had a problem of throwing too many pitches in his starts, a big reason why his IP totals have been poor.

One other significant difference last year was Gil started to throw a lot more 2-seamers which improved his groundball rate. If he continues this trend and gets more comfortable with the idea of throwing strikes with the 2-seamer, he could reduce his walk rate and his pitch counts, and it may come with a side benefit of improving his strikeout rate if he finds himself ahead in the count more.

It's possible that Gil could still turn into a good pitcher, but the Royals are paying an awful lot of money for a lot of years on potential rather than previous production.

[dawgfan]

Dola - FWIW, here's the conclusion that Rob Neyer (Royals fan) draws from the Meche signing:

My friends keep asking me, "The Royals have the money, so why shouldn't they spend it?" They should spend it. They should spend every dollar of it. But they shouldn't spend nearly this much of it on a below-average pitcher. They should spend it on teenagers in the Dominican Republic and Venezuela. They should spend it on the best available high-school and college players in the draft next June. They should spend it on the best scouts and baseball teachers that money can buy. They should spend it on serious research into how you keep young pitchers healthy. They should spend some on low-risk investments, for the day when Alex Gordon and Billy Butler and Luke Hochevar are interested in long-term contract extensions, and for the day when a $55 million pitcher might actually get the franchise out of last place.

There are many, many ways to spend the money, and somehow the Royals have chosen the absolute worst way to spend theirs.

[dawgfan]

Double-dola - an excellent article by Buster Olney regarding the pros and cons of having Scott Boras as your agent:

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=olney_buster#20061212

I agree 100% with Olney's view.

[dervack]

Double-dola - an excellent article by Buster Olney regarding the pros and cons of having Scott Boras as your agent:

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=olney_buster#20061212

I agree 100% with Olney's view.
Uh, insider only.

[dawgfan]

Uh, insider only.

Yeah, sorry. The condensed recap of the article is this:

Boras reportedly asks for absolute control of all negotiations if he is hired as your agent, and this worries teams in that they are never sure if the player in question knows all the details of negotiations. Olney's point is that, while Boras is the best at maximizing money out of these negotiations, is he really serving the best overall interests of his clients? Do these clients truly prefer only max dollar, or would they be willing to settle for less money with a preferred club? In this age of astronomical contracts, does it really serve the best interests of the player to maximize their money, or should they opt to sacrifice a little bit of money for other considerations?

Now, one could argue that if a player opts to use Boras as his agent he's essentially already making the decision that money is the only thing that matters to them, and you'd have a very good point.

[TRO]

So "ponying" up for Zito would have been OK? Considering he would have cost twice as much and NOT have been twice the pitcher, I don't see it.

Reading the recently bump Brees thread makes me hope that I can bump this thread in a year as well. Shurg.

[JPhillips]

I wouldn't spend the money on either, but if this is about changing perceptions Zito at twice the money is a better buy than Meche.

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2695473

HOUSTON -- The Astros are getting Jason Jennings instead of Jon Garland to replace Andy Pettitte in their starting rotation.

Five days after a potential trade with the White Sox came apart, Houston acquired Jennings and pitcher Miguel Asencio from the Colorado Rockies on Tuesday for outfielder Willy Taveras and pitchers Taylor Buchholz and Jason Hirsh -- who all would have been sent to the White Sox.

"This gives us a solid No. 2 starter and some depth in the bullpen," Astros general manager Tim Purpura said. "It's an exciting day for us."

It was also somewhat of a homecoming for the 28-year-old Jennings, who was born in Mesquite, Texas, just outside Dallas, and pitched for Baylor University.


He's spent his entire five-year professional career with the Rockies, and last season was 9-13 with a 3.78 ERA. He will make $5.5 million in 2007 and is eligible to become a free agent after next season. He is Colorado's career leader in victories (58) and shutouts (three).


"I'm excited to go to a good ballclub and a team with playoff aspirations every year," Jennings said during a conference call. "I am looking forward to a new opportunity with a new team. It's almost like a breath of fresh air, a whole new beginning for me."


Jennings was the NL Rookie of the Year in 2002 after he had a career-high 16 wins with a 4.52 ERA.


That was Jennings' only winning season in the majors. Still, Purpura said the Astros have been watching Jennings and were impressed by his record last season.


Jennings becomes Houston's No. 2 starter behind Roy Oswalt, joined in the rotation by Wandy Rodriguez and free-agent pickup Woody Williams. After winning their first NL pennant in 2005, the Astros are unsure whether seven-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens will return for a fourth season with his hometown team.


"This was a trade we would have made whether Jason was in the last year of his contract or not," Rockies general manager Dan O'Dowd said. "Any time you get back three major league-ready players, it's very difficult to do in this environment, and this is the kind of baseball deal we will always have to make. Whether he had three years and 'X' amount of money left on his contract or he was entering his final year, we would have made this trade."


Taveras hit .278 with one home run and 30 RBI this year. He had a 30-game hitting streak that ended Aug. 29.


Buchholz, whose medical reports may have caused the White Sox to back off a trade, was 6-10 with a 5.89 in 19 starts and three relief appearances. He was demoted to Triple-A Round Rock for a spell and made seven starts there.


Hirsh, a 24-year-old prospect who is highly rated, made his major league debut last season and was 3-4 with a 6.04 ERA in nine starts.


White Sox general manager Kenny Williams had little comment about the trade.


"Sounds like Rocky and Astro business to me, not White Sox," he said in an e-mail


Asencio was 1-0 with a 4.70 ERA in three games with the Rockies last season and 8-7 with a 5.03 ERA in 16 starts and 22 relief appearances at Triple-A. He has repeatedly been sidelined over the past three seasons because of multiple operations on his right elbow.


"It's very hard to say goodbye to a homegrown talent, but whether it was now or at the end of the season, it was inevitable," O'Dowd said.


He hinted that the team's inability to get Jennings to agree to an extension factored in the decision.


"We gave him a great offer, but he understands where the market is and we understand what he had to do," O'Dowd said. "We're sad to see him go but happy for him going to a team in his home state."

Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press

[JonInMiddleGA]

Braves have non-tendered Marcus Giles & Chris Reitsma.

[JS19]

Gagne has got to be one of the luckiest SOBs in the world for being a FA this yr.

How in the hell does a guy who has thrown i think 15 innings over the past 2 YEARS get 6M???

[Crapshoot]

Braves have non-tendered Brian Giles & Chris Reitsma.

That's impressive, since I was under the impression his little brother Marcus was the one playing 2b. :D

I don't get this move - Giles is a 28 year old 2b in a market that exploded - he has his worst year offensively, and was still probably about average for a 2b. I find it hard to believe they couldn't get anything for him, especially in a world where they'll pay Bob Wickman $6 million to help them into 4th place.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That's impressive, since I was under the impression his little brother Marcus was the one playing 2b. :D

Oopsie. Thanks, fixed it.

I don't get this move - Giles is a 28 year old 2b in a market that exploded - he has his worst year offensively, and was still probably about average for a 2b. I find it hard to believe they couldn't get anything for him, especially in a world where they'll pay Bob Wickman $6 million to help them into 4th place.

I think the problem was that teams knew he would be, essentially, released if nobody dealt for him. Seems they couldn't get anything of value for him solo, and didn't want to throw any of their prospects in a deal just to unload him.

[dawgfan]

So "ponying" up for Zito would have been OK? Considering he would have cost twice as much and NOT have been twice the pitcher, I don't see it.

Reading the recently bump Brees thread makes me hope that I can bump this thread in a year as well. Shurg.
I'm not really advocating paying Zito what Boras is asking for him either, but he would provide better return than Meche. Over the last 3 years, Zito has accounted for 44 win shares; Meche has accounted for 19.

The Royals would've been better off IMO putting most of that money towards domestic and international scouting and earmarking some of it for future contract extensions for some of their young stars in the making. There are guys like John Thomson that are available for much less money and years than most of the "marquee" guys on the free agent wire that would provide 90% of the production for 50% or less of the price and contract years.

[dervack]

And this is what makes me mad as a Cubs fan. Sure Zito is one pitcher. But I would rather have Zito at say 17 million a year and Marshall at 300k, than Lilly at 10 mill and Marquis at 7. Of course, that's just me.

[SackAttack]

The Royals would've been better off IMO putting most of that money towards domestic and international scouting

They're not ignoring those. They're opening an academy in the Dominican, and they have some other things going on. There's only so much money you can throw at the problem in a short period of time and expect serious results - particularly if you're Kansas City, and not New York - but they do seem committed to the long term.

As I said earlier, I think the Meche signing has less to do with "now" and more to do with making KC an attractive place for future free agents - some of which very well may BE those young stars in the making you referenced.

If you can convince them that you're willing to spend the money to improve the team, that's a significant psychological hurdle you can overcome. How many young stars are going to stay in KC for the money if they can get similar dollars in places that have demonstrated a willingness to spend on other parts to win?

KC isn't doing anything in the Central this year, and everybody knows it, but they also can't unilaterally keep their stars after 6 years in the majors. The most important message they send is to those guys. The same message is aimed at free agents for other teams - "Take us seriously as a bidder for your services" - but if retention fails, acquisition can never succeed.

[dawgfan]

KC isn't doing anything in the Central this year, and everybody knows it, but they also can't unilaterally keep their stars after 6 years in the majors. The most important message they send is to those guys. The same message is aimed at free agents for other teams - "Take us seriously as a bidder for your services" - but if retention fails, acquisition can never succeed.
There may be some psychological value to such a signing, but if that's their intent, better to throw big money at a guy more likely to pay off. They're spending a ton of money over a long period of time for a guy that's been slightly below league-average for the last 4 years, since he returned from labrum surgery, all in the hopes that (against odds) he'll turn into a very good pitcher.

[SackAttack]

I think they're hoping more to show that they can "win" when going after free agents pursued by other - larger market - teams. I think they have to believe that Meche can be a quality signing for them, but the most valuable short term impact is "here's a guy who was pursued by two potential playoff teams. We've convinced him to be a part of what we're doing in Kansas City. Shouldn't you consider staying here/coming here, too?"

What the long-term impact is depends not just on how Meche performs but on how they play the rest of their hand. Are their fledgling international/Dominican scouting efforts fruitful, or do they end up spending all this money to find a couple of Delino DeShields?

[Galaril]

Dice-K Matsuzaka has been flown out in the Red Sox owners private jet it landed and he is now being taken to Boston General Hospital for an apparent physical. Espn, SI and Boston's WEEI have reported that the Sox and Dice-K's agent the infamous Scott Boras have agreed to a 6 year at 8.5 million dollar deal with incentives that could push it to 60 million over the life of the contract. Considering this guy is suppose to be incredible and Boras was asking for 14-16 million8.5 mill. isn't bad, though the Red Sox already have spent 51 million on the guy based on the posting fee paid to his Japanese team.

[miami_fan]

The Blue Jays apparently are serious about keeping budding superstar Vernon Wells in the fold.

Wells, who can become a free agent after next season, was offered a seven-year, $126 million extension by Toronto. No deal has been agreed to, however.

Wells, who will make $5.6 million next season, confirmed the offer in an interview with The Globe and Mail, but wouldn't confirm the amount.

"It's somewhere in there," Wells told the Globe on Tuesday. "But to be honest, other than that, I don't feel under any obligation to make any more comments about it."

General manager J.P. Ricciardi also confirmed to the newspaper that a contract had been offered.

Ricciardi told ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick on Monday that the team was leaning toward keeping Wells, even if it can't reach agreement on an extension.

Wells, a two-time All-Star and three-time Gold Glove Award winner, hit .303 with 32 homers and 106 RBI last season. Even though next winter's free agent crop is exceedingly deep (Andruw Jones, Torii Hunter, Mike Cameron, Mark Kotsay and Aaron Rowand will also be on the market), Wells looks like a strong candidate to receive a nine-figure deal.


Ricciardi recently told USA Today that the Blue Jays will have to "explore" the possibility of trading Wells if they can't sign him to a long-term contract. He told the newspaper that he should have a better idea where things stand with Wells in early January.

"We're going to exhaust every possible way to sign the player," Ricciardi said Monday. "Ownership has been great to us, and if it gets to a point where we can't sign him, then we can't sign him. That's the reality of it. It's not that we don't want to."

When asked to give odds on the likelihood of Wells wearing a Toronto uniform in 2007, Ricciardi declined to make a prediction.

"I don't want to predict numbers," he said. "If you've been to the race track with me, you'd know I'm not too good."

Information from ESPN's Steve Phillips and ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick was used in this report.

[Galaril]

Dice-K Matsuzaka has been flown out in the Red Sox owners private jet it landed and he is now being taken to Boston General Hospital for an apparent physical. Espn, SI and Boston's WEEI have reported that the Sox and Dice-K's agent the infamous Scott Boras have agreed to a 6 year at 8.5 million dollar deal with incentives that could push it to 60 million over the life of the contract. Considering this guy is suppose to be incredible and Boras was asking for 14-16 million8.5 mill. isn't bad, though the Red Sox already have spent 51 million on the guy based on the posting fee paid to his Japanese team.

There is also alot of discussion that the sox wil pick up Roger Clemens for one year.

[sterlingice]

The Blue Jays apparently are serious about keeping budding superstar Vernon Wells in the fold.

Wells, who can become a free agent after next season, was offered a seven-year, $126 million extension by Toronto. No deal has been agreed to, however.

I'm going to have to check out his stats again because he never struck me as a $18M-build-your-franchise-around guy.

SI

[stevew]

I'm going to have to check out his stats again because he never struck me as a $18M-build-your-franchise-around guy.

SI

I didn't really think that either.

[MikeVic]

Compared to what other players have gotten this year? He's worth 18M.

[Ksyrup]

I'd take him over Soriano in a heartbeat.

[dawgfan]

Bill Bavasi isn't content to stop at moronic trades like Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez - no, he's apparently bent on severely crippling the M's future chances under the GM that will replace him when he's fired this year by trading away Chris Snelling and Emiliano Fruto for Jose Vidro.

[Travis]

Vernon Wells is a guy you can use as a center piece. Gold glover in center field, natural #3 hitter in the lineup, he has all the tools. More importantly is the message it sends to the team and fans by keeping him rather than losing him the way they did Delgado, then the search to replace him (which is kind of working with Glaus). Wells is one of the most popular Jays (guessing he and Halladay would be the top 2 by quite a stretch) and I know personally, as a fan of the team, if we lose him to FA or trade him, it's just another step away from winning.

[Young Drachma]

Agreed, that if you're going to contend that keeping him is better than losing him. The Jays used to be really good about keeping centerpiece players and building around him. For a guy that's only played in Toronto (like Delgado) letting him go, would be a mistake. But I don't want them to do the Nats did with Soriano. If he won't sign, I want him gone by mid-season for players that can help us.

[Travis]

I hope that's not necessary, not only because I really like Wells (Johnson/Wells/Rios has the potential to be one of the top OF's in the league defensively, at the plate and on the base paths), but because I don't think I could even imagine just how badly J.P. would likely screw up this deal.

But hey, they did bring back another Canadian (Matt Stairs). Wonder if he'll be treated a little better than Koskie was.

Agreed, that if you're going to contend that keeping him is better than losing him. The Jays used to be really good about keeping centerpiece players and building around him. For a guy that's only played in Toronto (like Delgado) letting him go, would be a mistake. But I don't want them to do the Nats did with Soriano. If he won't sign, I want him gone by mid-season for players that can help us.

[miami_fan]

It is really good to see Bags leave the game on good terms with the Astros.

HOUSTON -- Jeff Bagwell, the face of Houston baseball for a generation with teammate Craig Biggio, will retire Friday after 15 years with the team.

The four-time All Star will remain with the Astros as part of a personal-services agreement reached with the team earlier this week, according to a person familiar with the team's plan who requested anonymity because an official announcement had not been made.

Bagwell, the greatest power hitter in Houston Astros history, is expected to work with young Astros hitters, assisting in the front office and making appearances for the team.

The Astros have scheduled a Friday morning news conference to announce the retirement.

Bagwell, 38, leaves the Astros as the team's all-time leader in home runs (449), RBI (1,529), walks (1,401) and extra-base hits (969). He had a lifetime batting average of .297.

Despite his unique and highly unorthodox batting stance, Bagwell displayed remarkable power at the plate, ranking among the top 15 players in home runs and RBI throughout the 1990s. His 449 home runs leaves him three behind his childhood idol, Carl Yastrzemski.

A Boston native, Bagwell's minor-league contract was owned by the Boston Red Sox until August 1990, when the Red Sox traded him to the Astros for pitcher Larry Andersen. Astros manager Art Howe switched Bagwell from third base to first base to accommodate Astros third baseman Ken Caminiti, soon to become one of Bagwell's close friends.

Bagwell's impact was immediate, and he was named the National League rookie of the year in 1991, hitting .294 with 15 homers and a club rookie record of 82 RBI.

He went on to win three Silver Slugger awards and one Gold Glove.

It was in the strike-shortened season of 1994 that Bagwell had perhaps his best season, hitting .368 over 110 games, slamming 39 home runs and knocking in 116 runs to lead the Astros within a half-game of Cincinnati before a players strike ended the season Aug. 12. As a result, Bagwell was unanimously selected the National League's most valuable player.

Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press



Oh yeah, you may begin the "Is he a HOFer or not" talk now.

[sterlingice]

Royals trade Andy Sisco for Ross Gload. Real head scratcher there tho there was a lot of news about him having bad work ethic like the recently traded Burgos and recently cut Runelvys.

SI

[Logan]

SI, mind giving a quick rundown on what a Met fan could expect out of Burgos? I read from a few places that there seemed to be a consensus among scouts/executives that the Royals rushed him up. Think that's accurate?

[sterlingice]

SI, mind giving a quick rundown on what a Met fan could expect out of Burgos? I read from a few places that there seemed to be a consensus among scouts/executives that the Royals rushed him up. Think that's accurate?

Definitely was rushed. Basically only has one pitch, a nice splitter, but if he's not locating, the ball goes a long way. He's not Rivera, who as far as I can tell is the only guy who really gets by with just one pitch- he needs to have time to get a second pitch in the minors. Throws hard but throws a little straight. Like in the previous post, not really known for his work ethic.

He's got an iffy closer makeup mentally but I think he could do it with some more seasoning. His biggest problem is that he really needs to develop that second pitch and then learn how to pitch rather than throw. Still, he's only 22 and has a nice arm so it's possible.

SI

[Logan]

Good to know. If the Mets are thinking of him as a closer, it's still a long way from happening. From what I've heard, they have no problem keeping him in the minors this season. If he makes the club, at best he'll be #4 on the depth chart in the pen, as Heilman-Sanchez-Wagner will be penciled into 7-8-9 like they were before Sanchez got hurt last season.

[sterlingice]

He's got potential, but he needs to have a year or two in low stress situations to develop it like AAA.

SI

[miami_fan]

ESPN.com news services


Brad Radke reportedly will officially retire at a news conference in Minneapolis on Tuesday, ending his 12-year career with the Twins.

According to the Star Tribune, the 34-year-old Radke will offically end his major league career at a news conference at the Metrodome on Tuesday.

"It'll be a sad day because he's not going to be pitching for us anymore," manager Ron Gardenhire told The Tribune. "And it's also going to be a great day because he's done so much for our organization. He started with us, and he never left us. That's something our organization is very, very proud of."

A Twins spokesman declined to say to The Associated Press what Radke would announce at the news conference. Radke was to be joined by general manager Terry Ryan, manager Ron Gardenhire and team President Dave St. Peter.

Radke went 12-9 with a 4.32 ERA in 28 starts this past year. He suffered a stress fracture of the glenoid in his throwing shoulder in late August but returned to the AL Central champions in the final weeks of the regular season.

The Twins were holding out hope they could convince Radke to delay his retirement for one more season.

"I gave him one last pitch a couple days after the season," Twins pitching coach Rick Anderson told The Tribune. "My last thing was, 'Hey, Rad, don't announce anything. Why don't you see how you feel? And come January or February, if you get the urge to do it again, maybe come on down [to spring training] and see what you've got.'

"He said, 'You know, I've made up my mind.'"

A 20-game winner in 1997 and an All-Star the following year, the right-hander owns a career record of 148-139 with a 4.22 ERA in 378 games, all but one as a starter. He has pitched at least 200 innings in nine of his 12 seasons with the Twins.

Information from SportsTicker and The Associated Press was used in this report.

[DeToxRox]

Tigers extend Jeremy Bonderman for 4 years at $38 mil. That's less then Meche and Lilly. Unreal.

[Atocep]

Tigers extend Jeremy Bonderman for 4 years at $38 mil. That's less then Meche and Lilly. Unreal.


Bonderman wasn't set to be a free agent until after '08. He had no bargaining power in this case. He gets more than he normally would have the next 2 years and gets $12.5 million in both '09 and '10. After that he becomes at free agent at 28 (maybe 29). Not a bad deal for either side.

[Ksyrup]

Nope, not at all. After Inge signed, the early talk was that Bonderman would be a tougher sign and that he was looking for something huge, notwithstanding the fact that he had a couple of years to go before free agency. Glad to see this got done.

[Brillig]

The Giants continue their youth movement by signing Ryan Klesko.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/19/SPGPHN2FNQ4.DTL

[sterlingice]

The Giants continue their youth movement by signing Ryan Klesko.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/19/SPGPHN2FNQ4.DTL

Is Julio Franco signed yet?

SI

[dawgfan]

I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere yet, but Dontrelle Willis was arrested on suspicion of drunken driving a couple nights ago:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2705991

Too bad - thus far he's been a great ambassador for the sport, especially in trying to reverse the declining trend of African-Americans playing baseball.

[Atocep]

I know its a year early, but does anyone want to begin to guess what Carlos Zambrano is going to get next offseason? If Zito gets close to $100 million we could be looking at the biggest contract for a pitcher in MLB history. If he can get through this season healthy he'll be a rare 26 year old proven #1 starter on the free agent market. However, he's a guy that's been rode hard by Dusty and has also been one of the leaders in Pitcher Abuse Points the past couple years.

[Atocep]

Interesting trade. I wonder if this pulls the Rangers out of the Zito sweepstakes. Texas acquired right-hander Brandon McCarthy from the Chicago White Sox in a five-player deal Saturday in which the Rangers gave up their 2003 first-round pick. John Danks, the ninth overall pick three years ago, and fellow right-handers Nick Masset and Jacob Rasner were sent to Chicago for McCarthy and outfielder David Paisano.

[Young Drachma]

I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere yet, but Dontrelle Willis was arrested on suspicion of drunken driving a couple nights ago:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2705991

Too bad - thus far he's been a great ambassador for the sport, especially in trying to reverse the declining trend of African-Americans playing baseball.

I think this will just be a blip. Not to say that I condone it, but...it's the holidays and he was probably out being silly. Thank goodness no one got hurt, he should pay his fines and then go back to winning ball games and being a postchild. It'd be better if he were on a different team, of course.

[Ramzavail]

Interesting trade. I wonder if this pulls the Rangers out of the Zito sweepstakes.


I cannot understand the McCarthy trade for the life of me.

They trade Garcia so McCarthy gets a spot in the rotation and then they trade McCarthy - I don't get it. Any W-Sox fans?

[Young Drachma]

Jeff Suppan signs with the Brewers. 4 years/$42 million.

[miami_fan]

From Rotoworld
ESPN.com is reporting that the Diamondbacks have offered a package of at least three players for Randy Johnson and that the Padres also have interest in the left-hander.



The D-Backs can't be serious right?

[Young Drachma]

Maybe their logic is that a return to the desert would be good for him. But...I agree, that's a bad move.

[oykib]

The Yanks have to accept that deal.

[oykib]

The Yanks have to accept that deal. I don't care if the three players are Larry, Moe, and Curly.

[pennywisesb]

Jeff Suppan signs with the Brewers. 4 years/$42 million.

I bet he'll have a losing record and an ERA above 5. Good luck Brewers.

[pennywisesb]

The D-Backs can't be serious right?

The D-backs seem to be on the up and up, and getting rid of three young players for one old has-been will be a terrible move in my opinion.

[Logan]

If Arizona or San Diego gives up anything of value for Johnson, without NY paying his entire salary, I'll finally be ready to admit that MLB is secretly controlling all of the other teams for the benefit of the Yankees.

[dawgfan]

Johnson's problem last year was his back injury which affected his delivery. If his surgery was successful (and he has a history of coming back from back injuries) it's not at all inconceivable that he could again be one of the top starters in the NL. Arizona was a good fit for him, and Johnson thrives on proving people wrong.

Now, that doesn't mean I'd want to give up top prospects for him, especially if New York is balking at picking up any part of his salary - but Arizona isn't that far away from being in the NL West hunt. A healthy Johnson would be a big part of a playoff push.

[lungs]

I bet he'll have a losing record and an ERA above 5. Good luck Brewers.

I'll take that bet.

[Ksyrup]

If Arizona or San Diego gives up anything of value for Johnson, without NY paying his entire salary, I'll finally be ready to admit that MLB is secretly controlling all of the other teams for the benefit of the Yankees.

You guys seem to be forgetting that the Yankees do not need to dump salary. For any other team, this would be a salary dump and they'd be happy to get a bag of balls in return for a team taking a $16M 83-year old pitcher off of their hands. But this is the Yankees. They don't need to deal Johnson unless they get a steal - and they've got 3 teams interested in him (SD, AZ, and SF). So they'll either get something of value by playing the teams' offers against each other, or if they don't feel like they'll get enough by dealing him, they'll just hold on to him - because they can afford to.

[k0ruptr]

I'll take that bet.

ill take that bet too

[rewissick]

I cannot understand the McCarthy trade for the life of me.

They trade Garcia so McCarthy gets a spot in the rotation and then they trade McCarthy - I don't get it. Any W-Sox fans?


*raises hand*

I've read, post-trade mind you, that McCarthy wasn't the most coachable of pitchers. That plus his fly-ball tendencies helped push him out the door. I think they could have done a lot better in both this deal and the Garcia trade, but what do I know. I REALLY hope that there are things about Brandon McCarthy that we don't know that led to this. Maybe he kicks puppies in the clubhouse?

What I really don't like about this is that Garland is going to be around for the life of his contract. I hated that extension when he signed it, and I still dislike it, even with all the salary inflation we are seeing this off-season.

[Logan]

You guys seem to be forgetting that the Yankees do not need to dump salary. For any other team, this would be a salary dump and they'd be happy to get a bag of balls in return for a team taking a $16M 83-year old pitcher off of their hands. But this is the Yankees. They don't need to deal Johnson unless they get a steal - and they've got 3 teams interested in him (SD, AZ, and SF). So they'll either get something of value by playing the teams' offers against each other, or if they don't feel like they'll get enough by dealing him, they'll just hold on to him - because they can afford to.

You missed my point. For any of these teams to give up value and pay Johnson's salary as well is insane.

[Ksyrup]

No, I understand the point. But if these teams have decided that adding Johnson is worthwhile (either for his performance or, as I suspect the case to be with the D-Backs, more for an attendance "draw"), they will have to give up something to get him, because the Yankees are not some desperate small market team looking to unload a huge salary. They'd be content to throw him out there, take what he can give, pay him his $16M, and be done with him after this year.

You can take issue with why any of these teams would want him, but given who they are dealing with, it's pretty obvious to me why they will have to pay up to get him.

[Ksyrup]

I like how Bill Bavasi has turned into a running joke. This is from Keith Law's article on the status of the D-Rays' 6 best prospects:

Jonny Gomes
Profile: Gomes remade his swing before the 2005 season, simplifying his setup and giving himself a much shorter path to the ball. As a result, he became a higher-contact hitter and has a much easier time getting around on big-league fastballs. However, his 2006 season was ruined by a shoulder injury that slowed his bat and ultimately led to surgery. He's expected to be ready to go for the start of spring training, but will probably spend most of his time in 2007 at the DH spot.

Trade value: Low, because of the surgery.

Future: Not a long-term Devil Ray, as designated hitters are rather expendable, and can always be given to Mariners general manager Bill Bavasi for his two best prospects.

[oykib]

Preliminary reports have Zito signing with the Giants for 7 years and 120+ million dollars.

Also, Yankee broadcaster Bobby Murcer is currently undergoing surgery for a brain tumor diagnosed on Christmas Eve.

[Young Drachma]

I think this is a coup for the Giants. Maybe they're going to give it one last go with Barry on board? Seems to make sense all the money they've spent over the years to get close and not make it. But even Zito seems that he won't be enough to put them over.

[Toddzilla]

Coup? It's a disaster. Zito has been average to below for 3 years now. This is far and away the worst FA signing this year.

[ISiddiqui]

Average to below? He's had an ERA+ of 116 for the past couple years. That's definately above average. And with the FA market the way it is this year (see deals to Soriano, Meche, Schmidt, etc), I think it's a pretty decent deal.

[stevew]

I really don't think paying Zito about 6 million more per season than Gil F'n Meche is that big of a stretch. Maybe the last 2 years of that deal could be awful.....hopefully the Giants built in an escape clause or something.

[Ksyrup]

Paying any pitcher that much money over 7 years is a bad deal. I'm not sure I'd even give Johan Santana 7 years. Paying Barry Zito that much money is insanity. And comparing it to the Gil Meche deal confirms the insanity of it all.

He'll likely benefit from the pitcher's ballpark and the move to the NL, so peripherally, I expect his numbers to be pretty good for the first couple of years. But if his walks, HRs, and hits allowed numbers continue to climb, he may not be worth it by year 3 or 4. And he's not exactly the type of #1 starter I'd want if my team got into the post-season.

[Young Drachma]

Coup? It's a disaster. Zito has been average to below for 3 years now. This is far and away the worst FA signing this year.

What do the Giants have to lose?

[JPhillips]

I'd sure rather pay Schimdt 47 over 3 years.

[Bad-example]

Wow. Signing Zito for $18M/year is understandable, if not reasonable, considering the market. Signing him for more than 5 years is a major risk. Giving him a complete no trade clause is borderline insanity. Ultimately, this deal is a push in regard to the payroll for 2008 and beyond, when Bonds' salary will be gone (excepting any deferred payments, which may have been overstated).

Zito, Cain, Morris, Lowery, Sanchez/Hennessey/Correia make the starting rotation look pretty good. If they can form a solid bullpen...and they do have some decent talent there...the Giants could be looking at what...maybe 86 wins?

[MrBug708]

So Zito goes from a team with three CF's roaming the OF to the Giants and their plethora of fine OF's?

[Toddzilla]

Carlos Zambrano is going to be FA eligible next year, what's he going to get? 8 years $160M?

[SackAttack]

Future: Not a long-term Devil Ray, as designated hitters are rather expendable, and can always be given to Mariners general manager Bill Bavasi for his two best prospects.

Almost makes you wonder if there were infidelity issues in the Bavasi marriage, because I'm fairly certain Buzz would have bitchslapped Bill by now if the two were actually related.

[stevew]

Carlos Zambrano is going to be FA eligible next year, what's he going to get? 8 years $160M?

Probably in that ballpark.

[Toddzilla]

Fortunately, with MacFailure gone, the Cubs are likely and willing to spend just that.

[stevew]

Fortunately, with MacFailure gone, the Cubs are likely and willing to spend just that.

Honestly, with the way guys pitched into their 40s of late, a guy like Zambrano is young enough to think about giving an 8 year deal to. The major thing you would want is some significant financial insurance coverage in case he misses a couple seasons to injury. He's a stud pitcher.

So while it's not "accepted" risk to offer a pitcher that long of a contract, I'd strongly consider trying to sign him now for whatever it takes. Cause he'd be nearly impossible to replace.

[stevew]

dola-
The sharp raise in his walk rate is rather alarming though. Like his control seems to have taken a bump.

[Ksyrup]

If you could make a sequel to any movie in the world or remake a past film, which one would you choose, and why?

Is this a question for Zambrano or Zito?

[Ksyrup]

Zambrano reminds me way too much of Bartolo Colon. I realize Zambrano's taller, but he still doesn't seem to carry his weight all that well, and I think his conditioning will end up being a factor in an arm injury. And given that he's got the extra 3-4 years of wear on his arm that Colon never had, I don't expect Zambrano to last as long as Colon did.

By the time he learns to lessen his walk rate, his arm will be close to being shot. No way I'd give him more than 4 years, unless I was able to get first-dollar insurance coverage for years 5 and after. In fact, if I had to choose between Zambrano and CC Sabathia, who is VERY similar pitcher in age, weight/height, and performance so far, I'd choose Sabathia. He's pitched well in a tougher league and seems to have his walk rate under control. But I don't count on either of them pitching effectively into their 30s, quite frankly.

[Atocep]

It seems like we're saying this with every contract this offseason, but Giants are going to regret this deal, not necessarily because of the money, but the years. 7 years and $126 million for a number 2 starter is ridiculous. Zito's K rate has been dropping and his walk rate has been increasing. Not a good sign for any pitcher, especially one with an 85mph fastball. Giving 7 years to a pitcher thats been getting worse each year makes this one of the 2 or 3 worst deals this offseason.

Zambrano has four 200+ inning seasons under his belt before turning 26. Add to that the fact that they aren't anywhere near efficient innings and you're looking at a pitcher that already has a ton of wear and tear on his arm. With that said, if he gets through this upcoming year healthy and the market remains the same he's looking at $150 million, at least. He's also a prime candiate to be finished by the time he turns 30.

Sabathia, despite being in the league for what seems like forever, only has one 200 inning year. Even though the relatively light work has largely been due to minor injuries (which if I'm not mistaken have not been to his elbow or shoulder), its saved his arm and he's in better shape to remain productive than Zambrano at this point.

[Ksyrup]

As I said above, I like Sabathia more than Zambrano long-term, too, although the difference between 6 years of 180+ IP for Sabathia (3 of which were less than one extra start away from hitting the 200 IP mark for that season, BTW) and 4 200+ IP seasons isn't THAT great, I would suspect. The fewer walks would likely mean fewer pitches for Sabathia, though.

[Ksyrup]

Sources close to the negotiations said yesterday that the Yankees and Arizona could complete a trade to send Randy Johnson back to the desert before next week. The Yankees would like to get at least two of the following three Diamondbacks pitchers: Dustin Nippert, Micah Owings and Ross Ohlendorf. -- New York Daily News

[Toddzilla]

Yep. Remember that Zambrano pitched for Dusty Baker for those 4 years, so he's been among the most abused pitchers in the league for some time now.

[sterlingice]

I bet he'll have a losing record and an ERA above 5. Good luck Brewers.

I don't think he'll have an ERA above 5 unless he has some nagging injury as he's in the NL but he'll certainly be in the mid to high 4's with 10 to 14ish wins and be the league average pitcher he's always been, even in KC.

SI

[sterlingice]

I'd sure rather pay Schimdt 47 over 3 years.

Definitely.

SI

[sterlingice]

Zambrano reminds me way too much of Bartolo Colon. I realize Zambrano's taller, but he still doesn't seem to carry his weight all that well, and I think his conditioning will end up being a factor in an arm injury. And given that he's got the extra 3-4 years of wear on his arm that Colon never had, I don't expect Zambrano to last as long as Colon did.

By the time he learns to lessen his walk rate, his arm will be close to being shot. No way I'd give him more than 4 years, unless I was able to get first-dollar insurance coverage for years 5 and after. In fact, if I had to choose between Zambrano and CC Sabathia, who is VERY similar pitcher in age, weight/height, and performance so far, I'd choose Sabathia. He's pitched well in a tougher league and seems to have his walk rate under control. But I don't count on either of them pitching effectively into their 30s, quite frankly.

Just out of curiousity, is this a "no pitcher should get more than a 5 year contract" point or are there some guys (more than, say, Santana or one other pitcher) you would actually be comfortable, in the baseball sense, of giving a 7+ year contract to?

SI

[ctmason]

Assumption: A Braves rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Davies and Chuck James along with the addition of Rafael Soriano in the middle and closer Bob Wickman stays nearly 100% healthy throughout the season.

True or false: Said rotation and improvement in the 'pen set the stage for another NL East Division Title.

My thoughts: Sure as heck looks good on paper. I remain skeptical of post-Tommy John surgery Hampton and James and Davies ability to continue to develop at a high level. Hudson and Smoltz will be fine as will Wickman. But even a great closer can't help you if you keep blowing leads in the 7th or 8th inning.

Your thoughts?

[John Galt]

You really lost me at "Wickman." The guy had his best half season in a long time, but he is 37, going on 38, years old, injury prone to the extreme, and rarely has the peripherals to support his performance. He may be able to keep it together enough to have a 4.00 ERA over 30 or 40 IP, but I wouldn't count on more than that.

Hudson, Hampton, Davies, and James isn't exactly a world-beating back of a rotation either. You seem to be counting a massive bounce-back from Hudson (4.86 ERA in 2006) to consider him "fine." His last season was really bad for a number 2 starter. And Hampton, Davies, and James may all amount to well-below average starters in 2007.

In other words, the pitching is still a gigantic question mark (although the Soriano acquisition was nice) and the offense may be worse than last year due to age and a slight step back from McCann and LaRoche (if he is still with the Braves).

So, I think a division title is within the realm of possibility, but I would hardly think they are favorites. If I was a betting man, I'd bet against the Braves making the postseason next year.

[dawgfan]

You seem to be counting a massive bounce-back from Hudson (4.86 ERA in 2006) to consider him "fine." His last season was really bad for a number 2 starter.
Yes, but...Hudson's peripheral numbers suggest he was unlucky last year. His basic rates (groundball rate, K rate, BB rate) were all nearly the same as they were in '05. What was dramatically different was his left-on-base percentage, which was just 67% last year (after being 78% the year prior). Assuming his DIPS stats don't change significantly this year and his LOB % regresses to the mean, he'll have a year much closer to his '05 than his '06.

He's not an ace, but he's a solid #2 guy.

Soriano, if he stays healthy, should be a huge help in the bullpen. You make great points about Wickman, but a healthy Soriano will get the Braves through most high-leverage situations in the 7th and 8th innings. The Braves just have to cross their fingers that his elbow holds up.

[John Galt]

Yes, but...Hudson's peripheral numbers suggest he was unlucky last year. His basic rates (groundball rate, K rate, BB rate) were all nearly the same as they were in '05. What was dramatically different was his left-on-base percentage, which was just 67% last year (after being 78% the year prior). Assuming his DIPS stats don't change significantly this year and his LOB % regresses to the mean, he'll have a year much closer to his '05 than his '06.

He's not an ace, but he's a solid #2 guy.

Soriano, if he stays healthy, should be a huge help in the bullpen. You make great points about Wickman, but a healthy Soriano will get the Braves through most high-leverage situations in the 7th and 8th innings. The Braves just have to cross their fingers that his elbow holds up.

I guess I'm not as optimistic about Hudson. His HR allowed trend is frightening (8, 20, and 25 in the last 3 seasons). It's true that his peripherals are not much worse than last year (but they are slightly worse). I think he was as "lucky" last year as he was "unlucky" this year. The biggest warning sign to me is his K/BB ratio. He hasn't had a 2/1 ratio in either of his years with the Braves. In the previous 6 years with the A's, he always had at least a 2/1 ratio. So, for me, I see a pitcher on the decline (he is 31 years old) who is increasing his BB and HR allowed. In the end, I think his ERA will drop from last year (because of the unlucky factor you identify), but I still see a 4.30 ERA as the likely outcome. I will be interested in seeing his PECOTA card, but I'm betting my prediction won't be far off.

[dawgfan]

I guess I'm not as optimistic about Hudson. His HR allowed trend is frightening (8, 20, and 25 in the last 3 seasons).

I think a lot of that is the switch from Oakland to Atlanta. His HR/Flyball percentage jumped substantially in '05. Whether it's simply bad luck (percentage of fly balls that turn into home runs is roughly the same for all pitchers once you factor out the home park, though there can be significant year-to-year variation) or the change in home ballparks, I don't think that he's really giving up that many more hard hit balls, which is also verified by the relative consistency of his line-drive percentage allowed.

It's true that his peripherals are not much worse than last year (but they are slightly worse).
Actually, some of his peripherals improved - his K rate increased and his K:BB ratio improved ever so slightly. His GB% dropped a bit, but not much - from 58.7% to 57.7%.

I think he was as "lucky" last year as he was "unlucky" this year. The biggest warning sign to me is his K/BB ratio. He hasn't had a 2/1 ratio in either of his years with the Braves. In the previous 6 years with the A's, he always had at least a 2/1 ratio. So, for me, I see a pitcher on the decline (he is 31 years old) who is increasing his BB and HR allowed. In the end, I think his ERA will drop from last year (because of the unlucky factor you identify), but I still see a 4.30 ERA as the likely outcome. I will be interested in seeing his PECOTA card, but I'm betting my prediction won't be far off.
I think your analysis is pretty close to right on - Hudson isn't a great pitcher anymore, but he's decent, and somewhere between his '05 and '06 performances should be expected.

I'm not sure how much of his jump in BB rate in Atlanta is due to a decline in stuff and how much is a change in approach due to the home ballpark (or at least not pitching half his games in pitcher-friendly Oakland). And his jump in K rate since his last year in Oakland is likely to simply be the result of switching to the National League and replacing DH's with P's in the lineups he faces.

He's obviously not the same pitcher he was from '01-'03, but he's a better-than-average guy who provides a decent VORP. By the xFIP measure, he was still the 12th best starter in the NL last year among qualifiers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Assumption: A Braves rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Davies and Chuck James along with the addition of Rafael Soriano in the middle and closer Bob Wickman stays nearly 100% healthy throughout the season.

True or false: Said rotation and improvement in the 'pen set the stage for another NL East Division Title.

My thoughts: Sure as heck looks good on paper. I remain skeptical of post-Tommy John surgery Hampton and James and Davies ability to continue to develop at a high level. Hudson and Smoltz will be fine as will Wickman. But even a great closer can't help you if you keep blowing leads in the 7th or 8th inning.

Your thoughts?

False.

-- I don't expect Hampton to win 5 more games in his career.
-- I'm not sold on Hudson being anything better than a #3 quality starter anymore, maybe closer to a #4.
-- Davies has a shot at becoming a good #3/okay #2 guy, but the jury isn't quite back yet
-- James could become a #3/#4 type guy or end up mopping up out of the pen
-- If we get to the 8th with the lead, there's a chance of winning, I'm just not at all secure in the expectation of getting there with said lead.

And there's still not a legitimate leadoff hitter in sight.

[Ksyrup]

Just out of curiousity, is this a "no pitcher should get more than a 5 year contract" point or are there some guys (more than, say, Santana or one other pitcher) you would actually be comfortable, in the baseball sense, of giving a 7+ year contract to?

SI

I wouldn't give Johan Santana more than 5 years. Four, preferably. I think it makes far more sense to lock up young superstar hitters than pitchers for that amount of years, but even then I wouldn't go crazy. Obviously, injuries happen, but pitchers are far more susceptible than hitters to injury simply through the act of throwing a pitch. I'd take my chances with an 8-year contract for guys like Andruw Jones, ARod, Pujols, Cabrera, etc., when they are in their early-to-mid 20s and keep my investment in pitching short-term.

That means having to turn over your pitching staff more often (unless you get lucky like the Braves did with 3 studs who stick around and don't get hurt), and luck is still a huge factor in all of this, but I think it's the only prudent thing to do. Unless you've got so much money that it doesn't matter. But if the Twins gave Santana 8 years and $160M, and he went down in years 3, 4, or 5, they'd be screwed.

Speaking of which, does anyone know what the current market is for insurance on baseball contracts? I think I recall reading way back when that it was getting tougher for teams to insure contracts (this was back around the time of Albert Belle's injury/retirement). I guess insurance is still available because the Astros and Bagwell's disagreement was primarily over him retiring so they could collect the insurance money, but if retirement is the key, then even insuring a Santana over his contract wouldn't help if he just becomes a shell of his former self but doesn't want to retire and isn't prevented from pitching in some fashion.

[dawgfan]

IIRC, it became nearly impossible for clubs to get contract insurance beyond 3 years, which is why you saw so many teams trying to limit lengths of contracts offered to 3 years or as close to 3 years as they could get.

This was quite a while ago that I recall hearing this though, so it's likely that the insurance market has changed further.

[Butter]

Hey, did you all hear that the Reds added Jeff Conine and drug abuse recoverer Josh Hamilton along with light hitting Alex Gonzalez to add to the worst contact team in the majors?

Be afraid, Cardinals. Be very afraid.

[JPhillips]

DON'T FORGET CHAD MOELLER!

You can't stop a team with three catchers.

Championship!

[Butter]

DON'T FORGET CHAD MOELLER!

You can't stop a team with three catchers.

Championship!

I bet Griffey broke his hand by high-fiving with his neighbors once too often after hearing who the Reds signed. It's just that exciting!!!!

[Ksyrup]

I just hope David Ross sticks around for a couple of years. He's from the Tallahassee/South Georgia area and is married to my former secretary's best friend, so I'm hoping to score some good tickets next summer.

[WSUCougar]

Be afraid, Cardinals. Be very afraid.
Pah! We've got Eli Marerro back. That trumps everything.

[JPhillips]

Do you not understand our three catcher strategy? We could literally have two catchers die and we'd still be okay!

Three catchers, bitches!

Championship!

[Terps]

Aubrey Huff officially signed with the O's today.

[ctmason]

-- I don't expect Hampton to win 5 more games in his career.
-- I'm not sold on Hudson being anything better than a #3 quality starter anymore, maybe closer to a #4.
-- Davies has a shot at becoming a good #3/okay #2 guy, but the jury isn't quite back yet
-- James could become a #3/#4 type guy or end up mopping up out of the pen
-- If we get to the 8th with the lead, there's a chance of winning, I'm just not at all secure in the expectation of getting there with said lead.

And there's still not a legitimate leadoff hitter in sight.

You guys are spot on about my belief that Hudson will bounce back, because an unwritten part of my assumption that has major consequences is that both Hampton and Hudson have seasons approaching their better years. Lacking that, I agree that its going to be a long season.

My whole point about Bob Wickman is this, and perhaps I'm naive because I hadn't considered his age. The Braves blew something like 25-30 leads last year. Don't blow say 10 of those and you're right there in the playoff hunt.

I don't see anything in Wickman's last two to three years that tell me he's slipping. If I'm reading this correctly he made 57 appearances last year with both Cleveland and Atlanta and saved 37 games, which looks like it ties his career high. I think he's got plenty of gas left in the tank as evidenced by a very successful second half in Atlanta, despite the team not handing him a lot of leads late in the year. Do I think he'll save 40 games this year? Probably not, but I also don't think he's going to blow 10 saves either.

I do share Jon's concern about the leadoff hitter, though. Last year Atlanta scored enough runs (my opinion, I have no facts) to be right in the playoff hunt. The 'pen let them down more times than not. Can they do that again? As someone said, jury's still out.

[Ksyrup]

I heard about this signing but didn't have a clue this was their intention:


Joel Pineiro reached a preliminary agreement on a US$4 million, one-year deal with the Red Sox, who are turning to the former Seattle starter as a contender for their vacant closer's job.

[dawgfan]

That plan might be a good one if Joel goes back on the juice...

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2720413

NEW YORK -- The New York Yankees and Arizona Diamondbacks reached a tentative agreement Thursday on a trade that would send Randy Johnson to Arizona, a move that allows the Big Unit's agents to get him a contract extension.

The teams informed the commissioner's office of the specifics of the trade, a baseball official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because no announcement had been made.

Arizona would send pitcher Luis Vizcaino to the Yankees along with minor league pitcher Ross Ohlendorf and shortstop Alberto Gonzalez, another baseball official said, also on condition of anonymity. The Yankees also might receive another minor league pitcher, the official said, and would pay between $1.5 million and $2 million of Johnson's $16 million salary this year.

Teams are granted a 72-hour window by the commissioner's office to close tentative deals, but it was not clear when that time would begin.

"When we have been granted that window, we would be willing to discuss everything with the Diamondbacks," said Alan Nero, who represents Johnson along with Barry Meister. "Once that window is open, we will do our best to work out a deal."

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

[Arles]

The official deal just popped up on ESPN:

It ends up being Johnson and $2 million

for:

RP Luis Vizcaino, P Ross Ohlendorf, P Steven Jackson and SS Alberto Gonzalez

IMO, Arizona made out pretty well. Initially, it was stated they would have to give up two between Dustin Nippert, Micah Owens and Ross Ohlendorf PLUS Brandon Medders. In the end, they not only got some money with the Unit, but were able to remove their top young pitchers (Nippert, Owens and Medders) and sub in two guys not really on their radar (Jackson and Gonzalez). I think the Yankees got a nice reliever, one potential starter in Ohlendorf and a couple "could bes".

Overall, it's a win-win, IMO.

[Arles]

BTW, for those who think Johnson had a bad season last year, here are some numbers (got this from OOTPDev):


IP H HR BB K WHIP BAA OPS
221 211 27 99 151 1.40 .257 .756
205 194 28 60 172 1.24 .250 .723

The top is Barry Zito last year, the bottom is Randy Johnson.

[dawgfan]

BTW, for those who think Johnson had a bad season last year, here are some numbers (got this from OOTPDev):


IP H HR BB K WHIP BAA OPS
221 211 27 99 151 1.40 .257 .756
205 194 28 60 172 1.24 .250 .723

The top is Barry Zito last year, the bottom is Randy Johnson.
I'd also say, from watching him a few times last year (and having seen him for many seasons in Seattle) that it was clear he wasn't 100% physically - he was making adjustments for his back and leg and his mechanics were different, which seemed to affect his control and velocity.

If he's healthy (granted at his age and with back injuries, that's a big "if") I think he'll be one of the top-10 starters in the NL.

[Ksyrup]

Coming back to the NL should help him, but realize that he'll likely not be ready until May 1 at the earliest from what I heard last night. So they won't get a full season of him. And of course, if his back isn't right, he's going to be practically worthless.

[Arles]

Before the trade, Arizona had a decent shot at finishing 3rd in the West. After the trade, the DBacks are now a threat to win the division. Given this change in possible outcomes, I think moving 3 B-Level prospects and a middle reliever is a solid move.

Had Arizona traded Nippert or Ownes, I probably would be more critical of the move. However, given the fairly inexpensive price, it seems like a no-brainer from Arizona's standpoint. Right now, the DBacks have Brandon Webb, RJ, Livan Hernandez, Doug Davis and the winner of Owens/Nippert/En Gonzalez as their rotation. That is good enough to win the NL West.

[Ksyrup]

Again, though, they may only have Johnson from May or June on. This year might be like a Clemens rental year with him - which is one of the reasons why the Yankees made this trade, since they hope to replace him with Clemens and wouldn't lose much time if Clemens does his typical half-year routine again.

It's a good trade for them, but it also has the serious potential of blowing up. They owe him $14M for this year and he wants (reportedly) a $10M extension for next year. They might not get much for $24M, if things don't go well with his rehab.

[Arles]

True, but the worst case for him has been stated at May 1 and he thinks he will be ready by April. And, he has stated having the successful surgery on his back will make him much more comfortable on the mound than he was last season. Even if you just get 25-30 starts (instead of 34 or 35), he will still get 15-17 wins and end up with numbers in the following range:

6.5 IP/GS, 8.0 K/9IP, 2.5 BB/9IP, a .235 OAVG and a WHIP near 1.20.

That's very good #2 numbers. Also, as an FYI, here were some of last seasons numbers for the big 3 NL west pitching additions:

Schmidt (in the DH-less NL):
32 starts, 213 IP, .233 OAVG, 1.26 WHIP, 180 Ks, 80 BBs

Zito:
34 starts, 221 IP, .257 OAVG, 1.40 WHIP, 151 Ks, 99 BBs

RJ:
33 starts, 205 IP, .250 OAVG, 1.24 WHIP, 172 Ks, 60 BBs

Even if RJ regresses a little in 07, the switch to the NL will still put him on par with these other guys. Plus, the best part for Arizona fans is that it cost SF $127 million for Zito, LA $47 million for Schmidt and it will only be a $24 million investment in RJ.

[Brillig]

You forgot the fact that Randy Johnson is 108, and may need a walker by mid-April.

[JPhillips]

Arles: If Johnson is healthy you're right, but given age/health I think Schmidt is a much better investment.

[MikeVic]

I think if you can get a pitcher like RJ and not give up any key pieces of your team, you should do it. Yes he's old, but he will still pitch effectively for at least a year. And considering the amount of money and years thrown at pitchers this year, he's worth the money.

If only the Jays could land a solid pitcher at a decent price now.

[Ksyrup]

The Yankees were looking at their bottom line a little, perhaps? Interesting, as this deal does seem a bit better than the D-Backs offer, money notwithstanding.


According to CBS Sportsline's Scott Miller, the deal the Padres and the Yankees were working on would have sent Scott Linebrink and third base prospect Chase Headley to New York for Randy Johnson.

That sounds quite a bit better than the package from Arizona. However, the Yankees would have had to pay about $7.5 million of what Johnson was owed, as opposed to $2 million in the deal with the Diamondbacks.

[Arles]

Arles: If Johnson is healthy you're right, but given age/health I think Schmidt is a much better investment.
I would agree and that's why he's more expensive. But, given the risk both have for health/age, I'd rather have RJ for 2 years and $24 million than Schmidt for 3 years and $47 million. Both have similar upside for next season, but RJ's investment is much less than it would cost to get Schmidt.

[Arles]

According to CBS Sportsline's Scott Miller, the deal the Padres and the Yankees were working on would have sent Scott Linebrink and third base prospect Chase Headley to New York for Randy Johnson.

That sounds quite a bit better than the package from Arizona. However, the Yankees would have had to pay about $7.5 million of what Johnson was owed, as opposed to $2 million in the deal with the Diamondbacks.
There was also a story out here stating that the Yankees weren't sure Randy would waive his no-trade to head to San Diego. I think he wanted to go to Arizona since the rumor is he has been offered a job with the organization once he retires.

[stevew]

I'm just happy the mullet and mean goatee will be back.

[stevew]

Oh, shit, and I forgot how funny it is to watch the big unit with a bat in his hand. The return to the NL will be awesome.

[Arles]

From the LA Times:

A high-level source told the Los Angeles Times that the Dodgers had inquired about Adrian Beltre last summer at the trading deadline and asked the Mariners again about his availability at the winter meetings.

Beltre has three years and $35.5 million remaining on his contract.

Yeesh, I'm not sure I'd want him back if I were from LA. I think they played that situation about as good as they could.

[dawgfan]

Yeesh, I'm not sure I'd want him back if I were from LA. I think they played that situation about as good as they could.
Here's the thing - when you get past the disappointment of him not repeating his monster offensive numbers from 2004 and look at his entire game (including his fielding), he's still one of the better 3B in the game. Only A-Rod is clearly better in the AL.

[John Galt]

Here's the thing - when you get past the disappointment of him not repeating his monster offensive numbers from 2004 and look at his entire game (including his fielding), he's still one of the better 3B in the game. Only A-Rod is clearly better in the AL.

Troy Glaus and Eric Chavez would certainly disagree (although Chavez's two seasons makes it a harder argument for him). I think Beltre is basically Joe Crede at this point. And I definitely wouldn't pay Crede what Beltre is due. And in the NL, there are many better 3B than Beltre (Wright, Ramirez, Zimmerman, Cabrera, Atkins (maybe), and Rolen (maybe)). There is also a lot of young talent at 3B in both leagues. You are right that Beltre is a decent enough player, but with his contract, he is still a net negative for any team that has to pay his salary.

[Young Drachma]

I think if you can get a pitcher like RJ and not give up any key pieces of your team, you should do it. Yes he's old, but he will still pitch effectively for at least a year. And considering the amount of money and years thrown at pitchers this year, he's worth the money.

If only the Jays could land a solid pitcher at a decent price now.

Uh. This is J.P.'s make or break year. He needs to get it done.

[Ksyrup]

Here's the thing - when you get past the disappointment of him not repeating his monster offensive numbers from 2004 and look at his entire game (including his fielding), he's still one of the better 3B in the game. Only A-Rod is clearly better in the AL.

I think Beltre's worth the $35M for the next 3 years. It breaks down like this:

2007 - $7.5M for subpar, if not solid, performance
2008 - $7.5M for subpar, if not solid, performance
2009 - $20M for second "career year" in last year of deal

:D

[dawgfan]

I think Beltre's worth the $35M for the next 3 years. It breaks down like this:

2007 - $7.5M for subpar, if not solid, performance
2008 - $7.5M for subpar, if not solid, performance
2009 - $20M for second "career year" in last year of deal

:D

Subpar - well, Beltre has actually been a better 3B than Eric Chavez since he signed the deal with the M's. His hitting was above league-average last year (and 3B as a group tend to be lower than league-average) and his fielding was (and has been most of his career) outstanding.

Aramis Ramirez is a superior hitter but a much worse fielder. Taken as a whole, Ramirez is slightly better than Beltre (23 win shares to 19 last year) and he's being paid $14.6M/season vs. Beltre's $12.8M/season.

I get that Beltre is seen as a disappointment given his dropoff in batting after his monster 2004 year, but the level of backlash for that dropoff has resulted in him actually being underrated by the majority of baseball fans.

[Ksyrup]

I was thinking more of his final 3 years with the Dodgers, which were unfulfilled expectations followed by a monster contract-year season. It was a joke only Dodgers fans would appreciate, I guess.

[Ksyrup]

What got into John Thomson?!




Wednesday, January 10, 2007
New Blue Jay Thomson rips Lo Duca's catching



<HR width="100%" noShade SIZE=1>Associated Press

TORONTO -- John Thomson (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5772) was surprisingly candid Wednesday about one of the reasons he chose the Toronto Blue Jays (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tor) over the Mets: He didn't want to pitch to New York catcher Paul Lo Duca (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6032).

Thomson agreed to a $500,000, one-year contract with the Blue Jays on Tuesday and will get a chance to win a spot in their rotation during spring training. The right-hander said the Mets also offered a major league deal, but he wasn't interested.

"As far as just looking at Paul Lo Duca across the field, I'm not really into how he acts behind the plate," Thomson said on a conference call. "I know a bit about [Toronto catcher] Gregg Zaun (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5427) and I know he wants to win and he's not going to let anything get in his way to do that, and I like that.

"And then with Vernon Wells (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6327) in center field, I'm not really concerned about the outfield with him out there. ... Just watching the Mets' outfield, if Cliff Floyd (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5177) is still there it's not a real good fit for him out there. He can hit the ball, but as far as defense, he's a little shaky.

"I just liked what's happening in Toronto."

Floyd is a free agent and almost certainly won't be back with the Mets next season.

Thomson pitched for the Mets in 2002, going 2-6 with a 4.31 ERA in nine starts. Lo Duca and Floyd weren't with New York at the time.

Thomson said the Mets initially offered a minor league deal before offering him a major league contract. He said Toronto offered more money in performance bonuses, but that wasn't a factor.

Thomson will get $1.5 million if he makes the Opening Day roster. General manager J.P. Ricciardi said Thomson can earn as much as $4 million based on how many starts he makes. Thomson went 2-7 with a 4.82 ERA in 18 games, including 15 starts, for the Atlanta Braves (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=atl) last season.

The 33-year-old Thomson pitched only 80 1/3 innings in 2006 because of mild fraying in his right shoulder and blister problems on his throwing hand.

"Everybody else I was talking to was offering minor league deals," said Thomson, whose last two seasons have been marred by injury.

"A bunch of the teams were kind of leery about signing me because of my shoulder problem that I had last year at the end of the season. As of right now it's fine. It was fine at the end of last year. There's nothing structurally wrong. I didn't have to have surgery on it."

He asked Braves manager Bobby Cox to pitch in late September so he could he prove his health.

"It was very important," Thomson said. "I sat down and said, 'Bobby, look, I'd like to get into a game toward the end of the season."'

Thomson pitched a scoreless inning against the Mets on Sept. 27 with Atlanta leading 13-1 in the ninth -- his first appearance since July 9.

"I threw nine pitches. I threw eight strikes and I got three outs so I was pretty happy," Thomson said.

He said he's been told his spot in the rotation is his to lose in spring training. He'll compete with Josh Towers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6712), Casey Janssen (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7748) and Shaun Marcum (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7661) for the two open slots behind ace Roy Halladay (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6134), A.J. Burnett (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6314) and Gustavo Chacin (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7463).

Thomson went 14-8 with a 3.72 ERA with Atlanta in 2004. He is 62-84 with a 4.69 ERA in 214 career games (210 starts) spanning nine major league seasons. He also has pitched for Colorado and Texas.

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, I just read that. What's his deal? I don't know that he'll be some huge factor for us this season. J.P. did all of his overpaying last off-season though, so save for The Big Hurt, who knows if he'll do anything more save for keeping Wells in tow.

[Ksyrup]

OK, I didn't think it was possible, but the Giants have officially outdone themselves for worst contract of the year. Zito's deal was insane, but this redefines the term. I don't care how little they are paying him, seriously considering Russ Ortiz for a rotation spot is worse than giving Zito 7 years and $18M per. Just clearing a spot on the 40-man roster for him is ridiculous!



Giants' 5th starter may be Russ Ortiz

HE WOULD JOIN ZITO, CAIN, LOWRY, MORRIS

By Andrew Baggarly

Mercury News

<!-- begin body-content -->Russ Ortiz left the Giants as a front-of-the-rotation starter. He returns hoping to win a job as the fifth man.

``What I've dealt with the last year and a half has been very humbling,'' said Ortiz, who agreed to a major league contract with the Giants on Tuesday. ``But I know for a fact it's made me a stronger person.''

Ortiz, 32, will enter camp as the top candidate to fill a rotation that includes Barry Zito, Matt Cain, Noah Lowry and Matt Morris.

Brad Hennessey and Kevin Correia will be vying for bullpen roles, Giants General Manager Brian Sabean said. If it so chooses, the club is better positioned to use prized left-hander Jonathan Sanchez in relief.

The Giants must pay Ortiz only the major league minimum of $380,000. The Arizona Diamondbacks are on the hook for the rest of his $7.5 million salary.

Arizona signed Ortiz to a four-year, $33 million contract before the 2005 season but designated him for assignment last June after he was 0-5 with a 7.54 ERA in six starts. He was owed $21.5 million at the time -- the largest sum ever eaten by a major league club when releasing a player.

Ortiz went to Baltimore and posted more ugly numbers -- an 8.28 ERA in 20 games -- but said he fixed a mechanical flaw while working with Orioles pitching coach Leo Mazzone, who had tutored him in Atlanta.

``It was basically how I was taking the ball out of my glove,'' Ortiz said. ``It's unbelievable how much of a difference it was with everything.''

Ortiz carried his good vibes into the Puerto Rican winter league. Dan Rohn, the newly appointed manager at Triple-A Fresno, piloted a club in Puerto Rico and sent back positive reports on Ortiz. Giants scout Rudy Santin echoed Rohn's findings.

``We saw better arm speed, more velocity, better command, better breaking ball -- all positive factors,'' Sabean said. ``When you put it together with his track record, it was something we wanted to delve into.''

Ortiz was 67-44 with a 4.01 ERA as a Giant in 1998-2002, then was traded to Atlanta for pitchers Damian Moss and Merkin Valdez on Dec. 17, 2002.

The Giants must clear a space for Ortiz on the 40-man roster today.<!-- end body-content --><!-- begin body-end -->

[Bad-example]

Thinks I like about Ortiz returning to SF:

1- He was my favorite Giants pitcher before he was traded away.

2- He is cheap. Virtually zero risk.

3- Arizona is paying him over $7M to pitch for their division rival.

4- He pitched well in winter ball.

Things I don't like:

1- He forces SF to make room on the 40 man roster. A minor league deal would have been better.

2- If Leo Mazzone helped him fix his pitching mechanics, why didn't Leo get the Orioles to bring him back?

3- Large possibility he will stink worse than Tommy Lasorda's seat cushion.

[Bad-example]

Tim Worrell retired today. I suppose Ortiz slides into Worrell's spot on the 40 man roster.

[Arles]

Thinks I like about Ortiz returning to SF:
3- Arizona is paying him over $7M to pitch for their division rival.
Since the DBacks had to play Ortiz anyway, the fact that Arizona will atleast get 2-3 wins from the Giants out of their investment (days when Ortiz pitches) atleast makes the expense more palatable.

[Logan]

Yeah, I just read that. What's his deal? I don't know that he'll be some huge factor for us this season. J.P. did all of his overpaying last off-season though, so save for The Big Hurt, who knows if he'll do anything more save for keeping Wells in tow.

Yeah, I mean who wants a catcher like Lo Duca who will actually get in a batter's face and not let his pitcher be screwed out of the inside corner.

Does Toronto come to Shea this year? Here's hoping Thomson makes the rotation :).

[Ksyrup]

Since the DBacks had to play Ortiz anyway, the fact that Arizona will atleast get 2-3 wins from the Giants out of their investment (days when Ortiz pitches) atleast makes the expense more palatable.


LOL

BE...zero risk? The risk is he gives you 30-50 horrendously-pitched innings before you admit your mistake and shit-can him, wishing you had used either the AA pitrcher whol looked good in ST or the journeyman guy you cut at the end of March. That's not worth a pro-rated $350K.

[Ksyrup]

I could see this going over in Milwaukee, maybe, but LA? Not so much:


You won't be able to buy a ticket for under $10 on game day at Dodger Stadium next season, but you will be able to pay $40 for a bleacher seat and an endless supply of Dodger Dogs. The Dodgers are converting the right-field pavilion into an all-you-can-eat section.
-- Los Angeles Times

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, I mean who wants a catcher like Lo Duca who will actually get in a batter's face and not let his pitcher be screwed out of the inside corner.

Does Toronto come to Shea this year? Here's hoping Thomson makes the rotation :).

Nah, the Jays interleague games are with NL West teams and the Nationals this season.

[Bad-example]

LOL

BE...zero risk? The risk is he gives you 30-50 horrendously-pitched innings before you admit your mistake and shit-can him, wishing you had used either the AA pitrcher whol looked good in ST or the journeyman guy you cut at the end of March. That's not worth a pro-rated $350K.

Yeah, I meant zero financial risk. There is always the chance he pitches just well enough to make the club before reverting to what he was in Arizona. He must have shown enough in winter ball to earn a ML contract instead of just a spring training invite. If he has regained his old mojo, great. If he stinks, then hopefully SF drops him before he does too much damage. Either way, a division rival is footing the bill.

[SackAttack]

I could see this going over in Milwaukee, maybe, but LA? Not so much:


You won't be able to buy a ticket for under $10 on game day at Dodger Stadium next season, but you will be able to pay $40 for a bleacher seat and an endless supply of Dodger Dogs. The Dodgers are converting the right-field pavilion into an all-you-can-eat section.
-- Los Angeles Times

They had a thing like that going on in the pavilion on certain days last season. The catch was that you could only head back to your seat with something like two dogs and two beers in any one trip, which meant to reload you had to go wait in line...again.

Only way you could really take advantage was to abuse the one-hour-before-gametime and one-hour-after-gametime windows.

[SackAttack]

Er, I guess they don't sell beer in the pavilions (haven't sat out there in years).

So replace that with sodas.

[SackAttack]

Oh, and I'd never pay $10 to sit in the top deck. Be interesting to see how many tickets they actually sell up there this season.

[Terps]

I'm glad Russ is gone from Baltimore, Leo may have helped him in Atlanta, but not in B-More.

He's going to lose you a lot more games than he wins.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

:mad: Looks like Littlefield screwed up again. He's going to spin it and blame it on Atlanta being worried about Gonzo's health, but that's not what happened. Littlefield doesn't have the first idea what it takes to be a GM. Why does he still have a job? He doesn't understand the game of baseball. Hey, Dave! You want to build a team through trades? You've got to be willing to give up good players to get good players in return!

I HATE DAVE LITTLEFIELD!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

I love the Pirates, but with this ownership and "management," I don't know how much longer I can follow this team.

OK, it looks like I was a little hasty in my outburst. The Post-Gazette is reporting that LaRoche is headed to da 'Burgh for Gonzalez and an unknown player. The unknown player scares me, but it looks like Littlefield finally did something right.

hxxp://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07017/754597-100.stm

[Ksyrup]

"The Beaver (Pa.) County Times is reporting that the Braves will also receive minor league shortstop Brent Lillibridge in the deal, while minor league outfielder Jamie Romak will be going to Pittsburgh along with LaRoche."

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/01/18/0119wilson.html

A day after trading first baseman Adam LaRoche to Pittsburgh, the Braves kept busy Thursday by signing former Pirates veteran Craig Wilson, who's expected to help replace LaRoche.

"He's a versatile guy who can play the outfield, first base and give us a good bat off the bench," general manager John Schuerholz said of Wilson, who signed a one-year, $2 million contract.

He hit .251 with 17 homers and 49 RBIs last season in 125 games with the Pirates and New York Yankees.

The right-handed hitter is expected to share time at first base with left-handed hitting Scott Thorman, although the Braves won't say it yet publicly because the teams haven't announced the trade that sent LaRoche to Pittsburgh for left-handed reliever Mike Gonzalez. That announcement is expected today.

Wilson also could play left field and provide a powerful pinch-hit option. While he has just a .214 average in 103 career at-bats as a pinch-hitter, 12 of his 22 pinch-hits were home runs.

"We think he makes our team stronger," Schuerholz said. "Craig's got fine pinch-hitting statistics — among the very best in home-run production [as a pinch-hitter]. We're real happy to add him. And Bobby [Cox] always finds a way to get at-bats for those guys, and lots of them."

Wilson, 30, has a .265 average with 98 home runs and 290 RBIs in a six-year major league career, all with Pittsburgh until he was traded to the Yankees on July 31 for pitcher Shawn Chacon. Wilson had career highs of 29 homers and 82 RBIs in 561 at-bats in 2004, the only time he had as many as 370 at-bats in a season.

[stevew]

The braves pretty well made out.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I hope Craiggers pounds the crap out of the ball when the Braves visit PNC just to rub it in Littlefield's face. Never should have let him go, especially not for Shawn "Batting Practice" Chacon.

[Swaggs]

Tim Worrell retired today. I suppose Ortiz slides into Worrell's spot on the 40 man roster.

Not that anyone cares, but I've always been a fan of Tim Worrell because he signed a ball for me when he was just a rookie. I always rooted for him because the Worrell name were familiar and he seemed like a pretty nice guy, as he took time to talk with and sign for a number of fans, at a Pirates' game, way back when.

[Swaggs]

I hope Craiggers pounds the crap out of the ball when the Braves visit PNC just to rub it in Littlefield's face. Never should have let him go, especially not for Shawn "Batting Practice" Chacon.

Same here. Craig Wilson was one of the few guys the Pirates had that was a legitimate, big league hitter. He had/has holes in his game, in that the strikes out quite a bit and he is not a great fielder (although he could catch, play both corner OF spots, and first base--so he was versatile), but overall, he was a very good offensive player that somehow got in the doghouse and could never get out. Getting him for $2M/yr is a great deal.

[Toddzilla]

Feh. Craig Wilson is Adam Dunn with 1/3 the power. He doesn't make nearly enough contact to justify the occasional longball, and he doesn't take many walks either. Add that to the fact he plays many defensive positions, none of them well, and you got yourself a big disappointment waiting to happen. Again. The Pittsburgh GM knew what he had in Wilson and made the right move.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Add that to the fact he plays many defensive positions, none of them well, and you got yourself a big disappointment waiting to happen.

So basically he's Chipper Jones without the big contract.

[Ksyrup]

The Pittsburgh GM knew what he had in Wilson and made the right move.

Yeah, he's no Kevin Young!

:p

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Feh. Craig Wilson is Adam Dunn with 1/3 the power. He doesn't make nearly enough contact to justify the occasional longball, and he doesn't take many walks either. Add that to the fact he plays many defensive positions, none of them well, and you got yourself a big disappointment waiting to happen. Again. The Pittsburgh GM knew what he had in Wilson and made the right move.

Have you ever seen Shawn Chacon pitch?

And no, Craig isn't the greatest player in the world, but he's a hell of a lot better than the stiffs brought in last year to play instead of him (Burnitz, Randa, Casey). Before he got traded, he was one of the best bats the Pirates had. I know that's a damning statement on the club, but it's the truth.

[Toddzilla]

So basically he's Chipper Jones without the big contract.or plate discipline, power, leadership, or cool nickname. :)

[Ksyrup]

Trot Nixon signs with Cleveland for 1 year and $3 million. Solid, low-cost signing. I assume Nixon is hoping for a Garciaparra-type resurgence to fuel a multi-year offer next year.

[Swaggs]

Have you ever seen Shawn Chacon pitch?

And no, Craig isn't the greatest player in the world, but he's a hell of a lot better than the stiffs brought in last year to play instead of him (Burnitz, Randa, Casey). Before he got traded, he was one of the best bats the Pirates had. I know that's a damning statement on the club, but it's the truth.

Exactly. If you are expecting a star, he will never be that.

But, look around the league at all the other guys that are making $2-4M, and he is a good value.

[stevew]

I never understood how people fawned all over Jack Wilson, when Craig Wilson was a much better player. Now the Pirates actually tendered Chacon too, which is almost puzzling. He will get over 5 million dollars, which is absolutely crazy when you consider how badly he sucks. Swaggs and I have had the discussion before, but it seems like a lot of times the Pirates would be better off bringing in an AAAA type to play vs spending 8 million on the Jeromy Burnitz's of the world. If you're going to suck, retread has beens are unnecessary. I'd just keep drafting pitchers, eventually a few will work out, hopefully.

[Ksyrup]

But the psychological effect on fans mitigates against that kind of [sane] decision-making. That's what the Neyer's of the world fail to understand (although in a vaccuum, his points are 100% correct, of course).

If your team has only a 5% chance of putting it all together and competing into September for a playoff spot, you can't keep your job by going 74-86 with AAAA players and a budget of $45M, rather than going 77-83 with a bunch of crappy and/or over the hill vets and a budget of $75M. You have to "prove" you're trying to improve the team, and to fans, that means bringing in players they've heard of and spending money. Regardless of how ridiculous it is.

[stevew]

But the psychological effect on fans mitigates against that kind of [sane] decision-making. That's what the Neyer's of the world fail to understand (although in a vaccuum, his points are 100% correct, of course).

If your team has only a 5% chance of putting it all together and competing into September for a playoff spot, you can't keep your job by going 74-86 with AAAA players and a budget of $45M, rather than going 77-83 with a bunch of crappy and/or over the hill vets and a budget of $75M. You have to "prove" you're trying to improve the team, and to fans, that means bringing in players they've heard of and spending money. Regardless of how ridiculous it is.

I agree with you mostly. Maybe I just overestimate the average fan as being too smart, but when I hear some of the names the Pirates sign I just cringe. Like a few years back, they sign Benito Santiago, when he's like 40. Of course he lasts half a season. When Joe Fan hears that the Pirates sign Joe Randa, I don't think the yinzers take that as a sign that management wants to compete. Hell, that LaRoache guy might actually hit 40 homers with the short porch they have there.