What's up with all the serialized dramas now? [Archive]

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Butter

10-05-2006, 11:20 AM

Is this the legacy of TiVo? Seems like nearly every new drama is not just a one hour story, but part of a bigger whole. Makes it nearly impossible to jump into after missing an episode, but becomes a TiVo-ers dream.

Izulde

10-05-2006, 11:22 AM

One think I like about NBC is that they provide an Internet feed of the last episode, so if you miss an episode, you can still catch it online.

wade moore

10-05-2006, 11:47 AM

Bee

10-05-2006, 11:49 AM

networks care MUCH less about their Tivo viewers than their live viewers.

That explains my feelings of being unloved! :D

lordscarlet

10-05-2006, 11:55 AM

I, for one, am glad TV has gone in this direction. I prefer an ongoing story.

Ksyrup

10-05-2006, 12:02 PM

This probably explains why I rarely watch TV shows anymore. In fact, I can trace the point at which I stopped watching L&O to when they started carrying more storylines over from episode to episode. Especially SVU - the stuff about the lead male detective just got way too boring for me. The last episode of SVU I watched was the one that focused solely on him interrogating some pervert, and it was basically about his life story. Booooooooring.

Anthony

10-05-2006, 12:09 PM

yeah, everyone knows perverts are the most uninteresting people to talk to. they also have shifty eyes, can't ever look you in the eye and carry a conversation.

Bee

10-05-2006, 12:10 PM

I, for one, am glad TV has gone in this direction. I prefer an ongoing story.

I prefer that as well, although occasionally having a show that you can just tune into every once in a while without having followed it is nice as well.

jbmagic

10-05-2006, 12:11 PM

Best serialized shows

1)Lost
2)24
3)Prision Break
4)Vanished
5)Kidnapped
6)Nine
7)Six Degrees
8)Runaway

Anthony

10-05-2006, 12:11 PM

I prefer that as well, although occasionally having a show that you can just tune into every once in a while without having followed it is nice as well.

oh, Full House, where have you gone???

Bee

10-05-2006, 12:11 PM

yeah, everyone knows perverts are the most uninteresting people to talk to. they also have shifty eyes, can't ever look you in the eye and carry a conversation.

Try it with pants on next time.

ice4277

10-05-2006, 12:19 PM

This probably explains why I rarely watch TV shows anymore.

For me, it is totally the opposite. Three or four years ago, I don't think there was a show I watched regularly. Now, of the 6 or 7 shows I consider must-see, probably all but one is episodic. To each his own.

Ksyrup

10-05-2006, 12:22 PM

I prefer that as well, although occasionally having a show that you can just tune into every once in a while without having followed it is nice as well.

Ironically, I find that I'm less likely to watch a "serialized" show if it is a drama, but the opposite is true for comedy. For instance, I love Curb Your Enthusiasm, which follows season-long story lines, but can't stand to watch dramas that do the same. Odd, I know.

Mustang

10-05-2006, 12:22 PM

oh, Full House, where have you gone???

This a line in a Simon and Garfunkel song?

Oilers9911

10-05-2006, 12:53 PM

Best serialized shows

1)Lost
2)24
3)Prision Break
4)Vanished
5)Kidnapped
6)Nine
7)Six Degrees
8)Runaway

Lost is becoming a joke. How many more people are going to show up there? Are they going to suddenly stumble upon a city next? A whole city of lost people?

I think the best serialized comedy is the Oakland Raiders 2006 season.

Maple Leafs

10-05-2006, 12:57 PM

This isn't really a new trend. Most dramas used to be serialized (think Dallas, Moonlighting, right through ER). Then came shows like Law and Order and CSI, with minimal storylines beyond an episode. That became the trend for a few years, and now you're seeing TV go back to where it was.

rkmsuf

10-05-2006, 01:06 PM

I think the best serialized comedy is the Oakland Raiders 2006 season.

LOL

Coffee Warlord

10-05-2006, 01:06 PM

oh, Full House, where have you gone???

Russia.

Bee

10-05-2006, 01:08 PM

Pumpy Tudors

10-05-2006, 01:08 PM

Wake me up when they bring "Matlock" back.

wade moore

10-05-2006, 01:14 PM

I like serialized drama's in general (and ones that are not)..

What I'm growing quickly tired of are the serialized dramas that have an "end-game"... Prison Break (which i love), Vanished, Lost, etc, etc.. I don't like a show that has what should be a clear ending point.. because

a) it has a clear ending point
b) often when the show gets popular they drag out what it takes to get to the clear ending point
c) sometimes when they reach a they seem to create a new ending point and start the cycle over again (see: 24)

timmynausea

10-05-2006, 01:17 PM

I definitely prefer the serialized dramas, though I think the HBO shows from 5 or 6 years ago like Sopranos, Oz and Six Feet Under deserve more credit for bringing it back than 24.

KWhit

10-05-2006, 01:20 PM

I really prefer the serial dramas to any other type of show. The Law and Order or CSI type of shows are just too repetitive to me. There is a formula to them that just repeats ad nauseum. I like the cliffhangers that a serial provides.

Honolulu_Blue

10-05-2006, 01:36 PM

I don't think this has anything to do with TiVO at all.

This trend is to 24 what tons of reality shows are/were to Survivor. That's all this is. They saw something get good ratings, so they are trying to duplicate it. A VERY large majority of television is still watched live. Plus, I was just explaining this to my fiance yesterday, networks care MUCH less about their Tivo viewers than their live viewers.

I think TiVO/DVRs has plaid a role in the success of some of these shows. It's effect on TV viewership cannot be ignored. "24" kicked things off a few years ago.

But the trend really kicked into high gear last year following the success of "Lost" and "Desparate Housewives" the year prior. I think this new emphasis on serial dramas is thing single best things to happen to primetime network T.V. in years. Before these shows sort of hit it big, primetime TV had become a wasteland for the most part. There were some good shows around for certain, but most of what was on TV was reality show after reality show and an endless procedural dramas likes the CSIs and the Law & Orders. The success of "Lost" proved that a show could be smart, complex, have interesting characters, and progress week-to-week and be successful. Those are all good things in my view.

Last year there were a flurry of copy-cats like "Invasion" and those other two alien invasion shows. All three failed. This year you have "Jericho", "Heroes", "Kidnapped" and some others. Hopefully at least one of these shows will catch on and help re-inforce the notion that T.V. can be smart, complex, and interesting.

Law & Order, CSI, and those type of shows make for great syndication TV. It's nice to sit down and watch an episode on TNT or what have you, but as first run shows they are not nearly as compelling or exciting as the serial dramas.

wade moore

10-05-2006, 02:03 PM

I think TiVO/DVRs has plaid a role in the success of some of these shows. It's effect on TV viewership cannot be ignored. "24" kicked things off a few years ago.

I think it can easily be ignored.

as of november 2005 there were about 3.5 million TiVO subscribers. With a regular increase of around 250k per quarter. So let's even say they had a good year and there are 5 million subscribers now (plus that would theoretically account for some of the other brand names, but TiVO is a high % of the DVR's out there).

Nielson Figures for Sep 25-Oct.1
<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="399"><tbody><tr align="left" valign="top"><td class="notch_light" width="27">Rank</td> <td class="notch_light" width="40">Season average</td> <td class="notch_light" width="200">Show title</td> <td class="notch_light" width="43">Network</td> <td class="notch_light" width="53">Viewers in millions</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_white" height="19" width="27"> 1.
</td> <td class="notch_white" align="center" height="19" width="40">2</td> <td class="notch_white" height="19" width="200">CSI: Crime Scene Investigation </td> <td class="notch_white" height="19" width="43">CBS</td> <td class="notch_white" height="19" width="53">23.8</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_light" height="15" width="27"> 2.
</td> <td class="notch_light" align="center" height="15" width="40">1</td> <td class="notch_light" height="15" width="200">Grey's Anatomy</td> <td class="notch_light" height="15" width="43">ABC</td> <td class="notch_light" height="15" width="53">23.5</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_white" width="27"> 3.
</td> <td class="notch_white" align="center" width="40">2</td> <td class="notch_white" width="200">Desperate Housewives</td> <td class="notch_white" width="43">ABC</td> <td class="notch_white" width="53">21.4</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_light" height="20" width="27"> 4.
</td> <td class="notch_light" align="center" height="20" width="40">4</td> <td class="notch_light" height="20" width="200">Dancing With the Stars </td> <td class="notch_light" height="20" width="43">ABC</td> <td class="notch_light" height="20" width="53">17.9</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_white" height="18" width="27"> 5.
</td> <td class="notch_white" align="center" height="18" width="40">6</td> <td class="notch_white" height="18" width="200">CSI: Miami</td> <td class="notch_white" height="18" width="43">CBS</td> <td class="notch_white" height="18" width="53">17.8</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_light" height="14" width="27"> 6.
</td> <td class="notch_light" align="center" height="14" width="40">5</td> <td class="notch_light" height="14" width="200">Sunday Night Football </td> <td class="notch_light" height="14" width="43">NBC</td> <td class="notch_light" height="14" width="53">16.9</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_white" height="19" width="27"> 7.
</td> <td class="notch_white" align="center" height="19" width="40">14</td> <td class="notch_white" height="19" width="200">Survivor: Cook Islands </td> <td class="notch_white" height="19" width="43">CBS</td> <td class="notch_white" height="19" width="53">16.8</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_light" height="19" width="27"> 8.
</td> <td class="notch_light" align="center" height="19" width="40">9</td> <td class="notch_light" height="19" width="200">Criminal Minds</td> <td class="notch_light" height="19" width="43">CBS</td> <td class="notch_light" height="19" width="53">16.5</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_white" width="27"> 9.
</td> <td class="notch_white" align="center" width="40">7</td> <td class="notch_white" width="200">Ugly Betty</td> <td class="notch_white" width="43">ABC</td> <td class="notch_white" width="53">16.3</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_light" height="18" width="27"> 10.
</td> <td class="notch_light" align="center" height="18" width="40">9</td> <td class="notch_light" height="18" width="200">CSI: NY</td> <td class="notch_light" height="18" width="43">CBS</td> <td class="notch_light" height="18" width="53">16.2</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_white" height="16" width="27"> 11.
</td> <td class="notch_white" align="center" height="16" width="40">8</td> <td class="notch_white" height="16" width="200">Dancing With the Stars results </td> <td class="notch_white" height="16" width="43">ABC</td> <td class="notch_white" height="16" width="53">15.8</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_light" height="18" width="27"> 12.
</td> <td class="notch_light" align="center" height="18" width="40">12</td> <td class="notch_light" height="18" width="200">Two and a Half Men</td> <td class="notch_light" height="18" width="43">CBS</td> <td class="notch_light" height="18" width="53">15.3</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc" valign="top"> <td class="notch_white" height="19" width="27"> 13.
</td> <td class="notch_white" align="center" height="19" width="40">21</td> <td class="notch_white" height="19" width="200">60 Minutes </td> <td class="notch_white" height="19" width="43">CBS</td> <td class="notch_white" height="19" width="53">15.1</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_light" height="20" width="27"> 14.
</td> <td class="notch_light" align="center" height="20" width="40">20</td> <td class="notch_light" height="20" width="200">Extreme Makeover: Home Edition</td> <td class="notch_light" height="20" width="43">ABC</td> <td class="notch_light" height="20" width="53">14.8</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_white" height="18" width="27"> 15.
</td> <td class="notch_white" align="center" height="18" width="40">18</td> <td class="notch_white" height="18" width="200">Shark</td> <td class="notch_white" height="18" width="43">CBS</td> <td class="notch_white" height="18" width="53">14.6</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_light" height="16" width="27"> 16.
</td> <td class="notch_light" align="center" height="16" width="40">19</td> <td class="notch_light" height="16" width="200">House </td> <td class="notch_light" height="16" width="43">Fox</td> <td class="notch_light" height="16" width="53">14.5</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_white" height="13" width="27"> 16.
</td> <td class="notch_white" align="center" height="13" width="40">11</td> <td class="notch_white" height="13" width="200">Without a Trace</td> <td class="notch_white" height="13" width="43">CBS</td> <td class="notch_white" height="13" width="53">14.5</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_light" height="16" width="27"> 18.
</td> <td class="notch_light" align="center" height="16" width="40">14</td> <td class="notch_light" height="16" width="200">Cold Case</td> <td class="notch_light" height="16" width="43">CBS</td> <td class="notch_light" height="16" width="53">14.4</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_white" height="13" width="27"> 18.
</td> <td class="notch_white" align="center" height="13" width="40">14</td> <td class="notch_white" height="13" width="200">Law & Order: SVU</td> <td class="notch_white" height="13" width="43">NBC</td> <td class="notch_white" height="13" width="53">14.4</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="notch_light" height="13" width="27"> 18.
</td> <td class="notch_light" align="center" height="13" width="40">12</td> <td class="notch_light" height="13" width="200">ER</td> <td class="notch_light" height="13" width="43">NBC</td> <td class="notch_light" height="13" width="53">14.4</td></tr></tbody></table>

TiVO Ratings for the same period:

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td bgcolor="#663399" width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_rankcol.gif</td> <td bgcolor="#663399" width="150">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_namecol.gif</td> <td bgcolor="#663399" width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_prevcol.gif</td> <td bgcolor="#663399" width="22">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_pluscol.gif</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol1.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Grey's Anatomy (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.43956341&show_id=tivo:cl.43956341&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">2</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">1</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol2.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Desperate Housewives (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.30646773&show_id=tivo:cl.30646773&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">1</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">-1</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol3.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Lost (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.30092014&show_id=tivo:cl.30092014&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">4</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">1</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol4.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">CSI: Crime Scene Investigation (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.2511852&show_id=tivo:cl.2511852&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">3</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">-1</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol5.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Survivor: Cook Islands (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.76505425&show_id=tivo:cl.76505425&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">5</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">0</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol6.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">CSI: Miami (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.7172676&show_id=tivo:cl.7172676&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">7</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">1</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol7.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.76625650&show_id=tivo:cl.76625650&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">8</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">1</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol8.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Oprah Winfrey (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.18194&show_id=tivo:cl.18194&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">6</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">-2</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol9.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">ER (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.18232&show_id=tivo:cl.18232&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">9</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">0</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol10.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Nip/Tuck (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.14096564&show_id=tivo:cl.14096564&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">10</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">0</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol11.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Prison Break (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.54150061&show_id=tivo:cl.54150061&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">11</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">0</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol12.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Heroes (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.77212506&show_id=tivo:cl.77212506&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">35</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">23</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol13.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Boston Legal (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.30715846&show_id=tivo:cl.30715846&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">14</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">1</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol14.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">My Name Is Earl (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.55477855&show_id=tivo:cl.55477855&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">12</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">-2</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol15.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">The Office (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.43851575&show_id=tivo:cl.43851575&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">13</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">-2</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol16.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.880788&show_id=tivo:cl.880788&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">15</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">-1</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol17.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Dancing With the Stars (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.48838144&show_id=tivo:cl.48838144&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">16</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">-1</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol18.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Without a Trace (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.7234167&show_id=tivo:cl.7234167&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">17</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">-1</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol19.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">CSI: NY (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.30092021&show_id=tivo:cl.30092021&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">20</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">1</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol20.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">The Unit (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.65645975&show_id=tivo:cl.65645975&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">26</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">6</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol21.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Numb3rs (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.38952563&show_id=tivo:cl.38952563&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">18</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">-3</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol22.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">NCIS (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.30244724&show_id=tivo:cl.30244724&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">24</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">2</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol23.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">The Amazing Race 10 (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.76625666&show_id=tivo:cl.76625666&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">19</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">-4</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol24.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Law & Order (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.14515&show_id=tivo:cl.14515&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">21</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">-3</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td width="35">http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/images/4.0_gridcol25.gif</td> <td class="tablecontent" width="150">Criminal Minds (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/program/show.do?collectionId=tivo:cl.55803730&show_id=tivo:cl.55803730&dispatch=programsearch)</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="35">27</td> <td class="tablecontent" align="center" width="22">2</td></tr></tbody></table>

Unfortunately Tivo doesn't give raw numbers. However, it used to give % watched and even then the HIGHEST percent I saw was 50%. But let's go crazy. Let's say 50% of Tivo owners record their top show - Grey's Anatomy. So, 2.5 Million of 23.5 Million Grey's Anatomy Viewers were TiVO watchers.. Big impact? I'm thinking now, especially since from the old data I could find (in 2004 they listed %'s) it's more likely athat about 1.25M watched Grey's.

If you argue Grey's is not serial (although it is to an extent), then Housewives is and it has very similar numbers.

If you go to http://clickz.com/showPage.html?page=3623007 it shows that 12% of US households even own DVRs.

Then if you go to http://www.productplacement.biz/product-placement/200504150842/tivo-viewers-skip-70-of-ads it shows that 70% of TiVO viewers skip commercials. So of your theoretical 2.5M above, only 750k catch the commercials, where a MUCH higher percent see the commercials on live TV.

Like I said earlier, I had to explain to my g/f how Networks don't care about those of us that skip commercials. You almost might as well throw those out of the ratings since we make them ZERO money (besides some ad placement in shows which is on the rise).

I'm sorry, but 12% of households, whom 70% skip the commercials, do not fuel any TV trends.

bulletsponge

10-05-2006, 02:16 PM

wow, theres only 1 show on that list that i watch, and thats Sunday night football

wade moore

10-05-2006, 02:21 PM

wow, theres only 1 show on that list that i watch, and thats Sunday night football

I did find it interesting that Lost did not even make the Nielsen list but is #3 on the TiVO list.

To me that's bad news for Lost.

lordscarlet

10-05-2006, 02:24 PM

I did find it interesting that Lost did not even make the Nielsen list but is #3 on the TiVO list.

To me that's bad news for Lost.

Maybe that's because there was not a new episode of Lost during that time period? :)

wade moore

10-05-2006, 02:26 PM

Dola:

It's been pointed out to me that the season premier of Lost (I don't watch it, watch it on DVD after it comes out) was after Oct. 1. But that during this week there was a "restropsective" episode that TiVO would have picked up.

So that explains that discrepency.

larrymcg421

10-05-2006, 02:33 PM

I did find it interesting that Lost did not even make the Nielsen list but is #3 on the TiVO list.

To me that's bad news for Lost.

Well that list is total viewers which is kind of meaningless really. The advertisers care much more about viewers 18-49, where Lost does considerably better.

wade moore

10-05-2006, 02:38 PM

Well that list is total viewers which is kind of meaningless really. The advertisers care much more about viewers 18-49, where Lost does considerably better.

Well, that and me beign stupid ;)...

I don't think the 18-49 factor effects the TV vs. total viewers much though.

albionmoonlight

10-05-2006, 02:40 PM

30% of people with TiVo watch commercials?

Bee

10-05-2006, 02:43 PM

30% of people with TiVo watch commercials?

I think 3 out of 10 don't know how to use their remotes.

Eaglesfan27

10-05-2006, 02:43 PM

30% of people with TiVo watch commercials?

I can't believe it is that high. That is a huge part of the appeal of my DVR box. We routinely watch "4 hours of TV" in about 3 hours just by skipping over commericals.

SFL Cat

10-05-2006, 02:44 PM

Just glad to see the big decline in "Reality" Shows.

wade moore

10-05-2006, 02:44 PM

30% of people with TiVo watch commercials?

My reaction as well ;). I've heard people, i think people here even, say before that they watch commercials with TiVO.

Baffles the hell out of me.

The only time I ever watch commercials is on sporting events when I dont' give myself enough cushion before I start and I catch-up before it is over.

One thing I do wonder is if the slot fo rhte last commercial before the show start has gone up in price.. I imagine i'm not the only one that only sees that commercial.

wade moore

10-05-2006, 02:45 PM

I can't believe it is that high. That is a huge part of the appeal of my DVR box. We routinely watch "4 hours of TV" in about 3 hours just by skipping over commericals.

FWIW, I just realized that article is from April 2005, so it may be even less now that people have used them more.

gottimd

10-05-2006, 02:46 PM

wade moore

10-05-2006, 02:48 PM

I am glad they are finally getting away from pumping out the crappy reality shows they flooded the market with.

So you think you can iron a shirt with lions chasing after you might have been the next show coming up.

Although I still eagerly await another CSI location, like a small market city where there isn't much exciting crime going on like CSI: Boise. Or maybe another Law and Order, but L&O: Meter Maids.

Your post is just more evidence of what I'm saying. TV takes one thing that succeeds and makes 10 copy-cats hoping a couple latch on. That's the case here, nothing to do with TiVO.

gottimd

10-05-2006, 02:52 PM

Your post is just more evidence of what I'm saying. TV takes one thing that succeeds and makes 10 copy-cats hoping a couple latch on. That's the case here, nothing to do with TiVO.

Oh, just to clarify, I wasn't trying to give evidence in that argument, just stating that fact that in my opinion, I am glad the execs stopped greenlighting every possible scenario of a reality show.

Unless they were deciding to come out with "gottimd bangs any female he chooses and his wife can either join or watch and invite more women". I am awaiting the network executives to call me.

Brillig

10-05-2006, 02:57 PM

I think the best serialized comedy is the Oakland Raiders 2006 season.

Too bad there's no chance of the network cancelling the show.

JonInMiddleGA

10-05-2006, 02:59 PM

30% of people with TiVo watch commercials?

Actually, a recent study in the UK suggests that more than twice that many watch the commercials.

That's one of the touchier push/pull situations in advertising right now, figuring out how many do/don't zap (and then how to count them).

ISiddiqui

10-05-2006, 03:01 PM

I enjoy serialized drama's myself. Good stories should take more than one hour episode to tell. Though there also are a lot of hybrid shows out as well, like Boston Legal, which will wrap up the trial in one hour long show, but have the personal lives of the lawyers as a serial. So you can jump in and watch the trial bits and not usually need previous information, but a lot of stuff concerning the personal lives of the attorneys, you may be left wondering what is going on.

wade moore

10-05-2006, 03:01 PM

Actually, a recent study in the UK suggests that more than twice that many watch the commercials.

That's one of the touchier push/pull situations in advertising right now, figuring out how many do/don't zap (and then how to count them).

All that being said - do you agree (since you'd know better than any of us) that TiVO viewers do not have sway in what goes on TV? That they are a virtual non-factor right now in the TV world?

lordscarlet

10-05-2006, 03:06 PM

I am glad they are finally getting away from pumping out the crappy reality shows they flooded the market with.

So you think you can iron a shirt with lions chasing after you might have been the next show coming up.

Although I still eagerly await another CSI location, like a small market city where there isn't much exciting crime going on like CSI: Boise. Or maybe another Law and Order, but L&O: Meter Maids.

Personally, I wish Tiny House was a real reality show.

Joe Canadian

10-05-2006, 03:31 PM

I did find it interesting that Lost did not even make the Nielsen list but is #3 on the TiVO list.

To me that's bad news for Lost.

Lost premiered October 4th, those ratings end October 1st... that probably has something to do with it.

Daimyo

10-05-2006, 03:41 PM

This has made TV watchable to me. I hate shows where each episode is a self-contained plot where everything is resolved by the end of the episode. I think Serialized dramas with plots and characters that develop over a season (or multiple seasons) have allowed television to surpass movies.

Ksyrup

10-05-2006, 03:50 PM

Kidnapped has been canceled. Apparently they are going to wrap it up in the 13th episode.

Joe Canadian

10-05-2006, 03:54 PM

Kidnapped has been canceled. Apparently they are going to wrap it up in the 13th episode.

They ordered 13 episodes of a new show?

Ksyrup

10-05-2006, 03:55 PM

They told them to wrap up production with the 13th episode.

bosshogg23

10-05-2006, 03:57 PM

Kidnapped has been canceled. Apparently they are going to wrap it up in the 13th episode.

Vanished is being moved to Fridays after the playoffs end. The main character was fired from the show due to cast/crew disputes. The major arc will be wrapped up by the 13th episode as well here. All 3 of those things dont add up to a long run for Vanished.

Honolulu_Blue

10-05-2006, 03:57 PM

Your post is just more evidence of what I'm saying. TV takes one thing that succeeds and makes 10 copy-cats hoping a couple latch on. That's the case here, nothing to do with TiVO.

The copy-cat phenomenon is certainly true. That's how TV, films, music, art, sports, etc. all work. Something or someone succeeds and people flock to try copy it/him/her in hopes of gaining similar success. Actually, looking at the Nielsen ratings and the TiVO ratings it doesn't really seem like any of the "serial" shows other than the "big ones" such as "Desperate Housewives" and "Lost" are really all that popular anyway. When "24" returns it will have high rating no doubt.

To say that TiVO plays no role at all in these show's success is extreme. There isn't a person I know who has a DVR who hasn't claimed that it changed their viewing habits. Not a one. So they watch different show or more/less TV. While their numbers might be small (12%), word of mouth generated by listeners does have an impact. I would think that the affect DVRs have on viewing habits does, indeed, go further than just the small percentage of people who have DVRs.

The commerical/TiVO discussion is sort of irrelevant to this discussion.

Izulde

10-05-2006, 04:12 PM

Actually, looking at the Nielsen ratings and the TiVO ratings it doesn't really seem like any of the "serial" shows other than the "big ones" such as "Desperate Housewives" and "Lost" are really all that popular anyway. When "24" returns it will have high rating no doubt.

I would argue that it's because a lot of the serial shows are new this fall and still building up popularity and fan base.

Honolulu_Blue

10-05-2006, 04:15 PM

I would argue that it's because a lot of the serial shows are new this fall and still building up popularity and fan base.

And all those that debuted last year?

JonInMiddleGA

10-05-2006, 04:18 PM

All that being said - do you agree (since you'd know better than any of us) that TiVO viewers do not have sway in what goes on TV? That they are a virtual non-factor right now in the TV world?

Ehhhhhh ... that's actually a pretty hard question.

While they may only account for something like 10% of a show's viewers (IIRC your example), that 10% (or whatever it is) has become a very contentious matter for pricing of commercials.

This year's upfront (when most network TV commercials are bought) was delayed as the networks & the buyers played chicken over how/if to count "time-shifted" viewers. Ultimately it was the networks who caved (http://www.medialifemagazine.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=215&num=5163) and agreed to negotiate on the basis of traditional live viewing numbers instead of the new live-plus-seven-days measurement now available from Nielsen.

Eventually, I suspect we'll see those time shifted viewers counted, but only at some fractional portion factored based on whatever the eventually accepted figure for commercial skipping is arrived upon. Right now, it seems to range from a high of 75% to a low of maybe 1/3rd, all depending upon which number is advantageous to the person doing the guesstimating.

Now, in spite of all this, the actual significance of the TiVo'ers et al is still unclear. The reason being that it isn't causing prices to drop at the networks, but rather it's slowing the rate of rate inflation. So it is important, just nobody has decided how important it really is.

Clear as mud, huh?

panerd

10-05-2006, 04:24 PM

I am a TIVO owner and if I was asked in a survey if I watched commercials I would say yes. Why? So they don't try and find other bullshit ways to shove advertising at me. Maybe nobody else thinks like me, but maybe that is some of the reason why there is such a high percentage of TIVO users who say they watch commercials.

JonInMiddleGA

10-05-2006, 04:32 PM

Actually, a recent study in the UK suggests that more than twice that many watch the commercials.

I wanted to expand on this, because I didn't really say it right originally.
Several studies have given different indications about how many commercials get zapped.

The UK study, which hasn't been released in full yet AFAIK, was a small study (about two dozen participants)

Meanwhile, in the past year:
-- One study showed that "63 percent of DVR users will stop for commercials that look funny. More than half said they would stop for a product they are considering buying, while 49 percent said they will stop for eye-catching images."
-- The same study said that "the incidence of people fast-forwarding is high, in the 70 percent range ... (but) ... the study also found that 55 percent of DVR users will occasionally stop to watch commercials that catch their attention."
-- A different study "estimates that 8 percent of homes have a DRV. It also found that 2 percent of all TV commercials are being skipped. The firm estimates that by 2009 DVR penetration will hit 40 percent, with 10 percent of commercials lost to fast-forwarding."
-- And yet another study said "of those who’ve had a DVR for more than one year, 72 percent always or often fast-forward through commercials when watching recorded shows."

In other words, the numbers are coming in scattered all over the board & none of them seem solid enough to hang too big a hat on.

Izulde

10-05-2006, 04:34 PM

And all those that debuted last year?

What all ones debuted last year? I have to admit I only started getting back into TV watching a little bit with Joan of Arcadia and when they cancelled it right in the middle of the fricking third or fourth season with NO RESOLUTION, I got ticked and went back to non-watching, other than Rome when I could catch it.

Then I saw advertisements for Heroes and Friday Night Lights in the movie theatres and I was so intrigued I decided to check them out.

JonInMiddleGA

10-05-2006, 04:35 PM

... but maybe that is some of the reason why there is such a high percentage of TIVO users who say they watch commercials.

Although it wouldn't have surprised me if there was some truth to this, the recent UK study actually showed just the opposite.

The use of cameras & other monitoring devices proved that the viewers in the study watched significantly more of the commercials than they claimed in initial interviews & that they time-shifted fewer programs than they thought they did.

KWhit

10-05-2006, 04:42 PM

jbmagic

10-05-2006, 06:56 PM

Kidnapped has been canceled. Apparently they are going to wrap it up in the 13th episode.

Damn. that sucks. I tought it was a pretty good show.

Where you read that at?

wade moore

10-06-2006, 05:27 AM

The commerical/TiVO discussion is sort of irrelevant to this discussion.

It is 10000% relevant.

The TV shows we see are based around what gets ratings. They care about ratings because they care about what makes people see commercials.

If you claim that commercial discussions have nothing to do with what new shows are being made, then you have a supreme lack of understanding of how network TV works. I don't believe that you do, because I think you're a smart guy... My point is that what new shows are made are based around what they can make the most money off of, which revolves around ratings, which revolves around commercials.

Joe

10-06-2006, 05:36 AM

Damn. that sucks. I tought it was a pretty good show.

Where you read that at?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/10/05/television.kidnapped.reut/index.html

Honolulu_Blue

10-06-2006, 05:38 AM

It is 10000% relevant.

The TV shows we see are based around what gets ratings. They care about ratings because they care about what makes people see commercials.

If you claim that commercial discussions have nothing to do with what new shows are being made, then you have a supreme lack of understanding of how network TV works. I don't believe that you do, because I think you're a smart guy... My point is that what new shows are made are based around what they can make the most money off of, which revolves around ratings, which revolves around commercials.

I know exactly how network TV works. My dad works in network TV and has for years. You're exactly right about it, it's just that the commercial thing went outside the scope of the "argument" in this case, or at least the one I was trying to make which was:

1. TiVo has had an affect on the success of serial shows.

2. Successful serial shows breeds more serials shows.

As JiGMA explained above, it's not like the networks just throw out all the numbers when it comes to DVRs. Also, as I mentioned above, the DVR (I think) has had an impact on the success of these types of shows outside those people (the 12% or whatever) who own them.

I don't disagree with you at all on the commerical point, I just think that DVRs have had some impact on the success (ratings) of these types shows.

Joe

10-06-2006, 05:45 AM

looks like another serialized drama is going to be dropped as well, Ray Liotta's "Smith" on CBS

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2006-10-04-knights-delayed_x.htm

JonInMiddleGA

10-06-2006, 05:51 AM

As JiGMA explained above, it's not like the networks just throw out all the numbers when it comes to DVRs.

But they also aren't getting any real benefit from them yet either. That doesn't totally discount your point here, I'm just saying.

In the overall discussion, I'm surprised that at least one other factor hasn't been mentioned yet. In addition to the success of 24, it should not be discounted that the networks looked at the success of the telenovela format on Spanish-language networks & considered that as well.

wade moore

10-06-2006, 06:12 AM

But they also aren't getting any real benefit from them yet either. That doesn't totally discount your point here, I'm just saying.

In the overall discussion, I'm surprised that at least one other factor hasn't been mentioned yet. In addition to the success of 24, it should not be discounted that the networks looked at the success of the telenovela format on Spanish-language networks & considered that as well.

For me, it's because I had no clue about the telenovela ;)...

As for the bigger discussion here.. I still just don't understand how you can say that we've seen an increase in serialized drama because of DVR. I'm sorry, but this follows the trend of sitcoms in the 80's after several were successful, TV Game Shows in the late 80's, Reality shows in the 00's, Epic Drama's in Movies after LotR. This is just standard "if X gets good ratings let's make 10x of them".

Meh, sorry, I just don't buy that DVR is dictating what new shows com on TV.

Honolulu_Blue

10-06-2006, 06:25 AM

For me, it's because I had no clue about the telenovela ;)...

As for the bigger discussion here.. I still just don't understand how you can say that we've seen an increase in serialized drama because of DVR. I'm sorry, but this follows the trend of sitcoms in the 80's after several were successful, TV Game Shows in the late 80's, Reality shows in the 00's, Epic Drama's in Movies after LotR. This is just standard "if X gets good ratings let's make 10x of them".

Meh, sorry, I just don't buy that DVR is dictating what new shows com on TV.

I am not going so far as to say it's happening because of DVR, I am merely saying that DVRs have had an affect on people's viewing habits and one of those affects has been to make these types of shows easier to watch and, hence, more successful.

If you have a DVR, you miss an ep, no worries, it's recorded. You don't have a DVR, you miss an ep, no worries you head over to your buddy's who recorded it and watch the ep there. That's all. It's one factor in the success. Not the end all be all of it.

Subby

10-06-2006, 07:09 AM

looks like another serialized drama is going to be dropped as well, Ray Liotta's "Smith" on CBS
I was really excited about that show, but it turned out to be a completely over-stylized, hackneyed piece of crap...

ISiddiqui

10-06-2006, 07:14 AM

I am not going so far as to say it's happening because of DVR, I am merely saying that DVRs have had an affect on people's viewing habits and one of those affects has been to make these types of shows easier to watch and, hence, more successful.

If you have a DVR, you miss an ep, no worries, it's recorded. You don't have a DVR, you miss an ep, no worries you head over to your buddy's who recorded it and watch the ep there. That's all. It's one factor in the success. Not the end all be all of it.

That actually does make a lot of sense. Before I had a DVR if I missed an episode of a serialized drama (like 24), I were screwed and it made it hard to get back into the fold because I missed a lot of story. I'd have to read it online or something. Before DVRs and before summaries online, I'm sure it was really bad. With DVRs you don't have to worry. Set to records first runs of a particular show and watch them whenever you want. It allows serial dramas to have a better chance... though at the same time, commerical revenue may end up being lower because of the DVR phenomenon of fast forwarding commericals.

JonInMiddleGA

10-06-2006, 07:21 AM

... I am merely saying that DVRs have had an affect on people's viewing habits and one of those affects has been to make these types of shows easier to watch and, hence, more successful.

Which brings up another interesting tidbit from some of these early surveys (albeit one that's completely tangental). The figures on "time-shifting", recording it now to watch it later, run as low as 7% of all viewing (IIRC, the high was something like 35% of viewing). Meaning basically that the DVR's may not be affecting people's actual viewing habits all that much.

ice4277

10-06-2006, 07:53 AM

Which brings up another interesting tidbit from some of these early surveys (albeit one that's completely tangental). The figures on "time-shifting", recording it now to watch it later, run as low as 7% of all viewing (IIRC, the high was something like 35% of viewing). Meaning basically that the DVR's may not be affecting people's actual viewing habits all that much.

I would also think that this is even more true with the more popular shows. I think that many people would have wanted to watch the season premiere of Lost live, whereas a mid-season episode of Vanished is something less than appointment viewing.

rkmsuf

10-06-2006, 08:11 AM

They told them to wrap up production with the 13th episode.

What are you? jbmagic? Thanks for the spoiler pal!

Daimyo

10-06-2006, 10:18 AM

Hopefully as DVRs become more popular they will have the effect of making commercials more interesting. I almost always fast foward commercials, but if I hear of one that is done very well, like the new Nike high school football commercial, I'll stop and watch it (or YouTube it).

Whereas five years ago they could put crap out there and have at least some effect (barring bathroom breaks and channel flips) now its only the top 5% or so that has any chance of making an effect.

wade moore

10-06-2006, 10:39 AM

JonInMiddleGA

10-06-2006, 12:04 PM

Personal I think it means more invasion of our shows.. between product placements and the annoying psudeo-transluscent ads in the corners.

Ding Ding Ding
Give that man a cee-gar.

wade moore

10-06-2006, 12:37 PM

Ding Ding Ding
Give that man a cee-gar.:)

Although apparently I need spellcheck when posting that early in the day...

larrymcg421

10-06-2006, 01:38 PM

I work nights Sunday-Thursday, so the DVR is necessary for me to watch many of my shows (or sporting events).

As for commercials, it depends on the timeframe. On nights where I watch alot of TV I will skip through the commercials. Since it only takes me 22 minutes to watch a half hour show or 44 minutes for an hour show, it increases the number of shows I can watch in my spare time. With football games it gets even better as I can skip time in between plays. However, sometimes I still get in the habit of using the commercials to get something to eat or go to the bathroom, or if I see a potentially interesting commercial, I might stop to watch it.

Abe Sargent

10-06-2006, 01:59 PM

To me it seems like there are two types of serialized TV:

Old school, soap opera style with an ongiong plot that continues and continues but does not have a beginning, middle or end. ER is this type of show:

Nouveau, novel style with a beginning, middle and end: Began by Babylon 5, there has been a rush of other shows from Lost, 24, and others that appear to have a set plot.

These are different styles of TV, and while Dallas, Guilding Light and similar shows have been around for ages, the recent trend is a different type of show. I like the Babylon 5 effect.

ISiddiqui

10-06-2006, 02:23 PM

Personal I think it means more invasion of our shows.. between product placements and the annoying psudeo-transluscent ads in the corners.

Oh, most definately. Product placement will probably go up and you'll see more ads jump up from the corner or side of the screen.

Joe

10-06-2006, 06:18 PM

Here is the official word on a few shows:

NEW YORK (AP) -- Here's something Ray Liotta and Virginia Madsen won't be putting on their resumes: stars of the first new TV show to bite the dust this fall.

"Smith," the Tuesday night CBS drama with Liotta leading a band of high-stakes thieves, is off the schedule, the network said Friday. It will be replaced temporarily by reruns of "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" and "Criminal Minds."

Networks don't like to use the word "cancel" -- it sounds so messy -- but the show's producers have been given no promise that it will return.

Its last episode had only 8.4 million viewers on Tuesday, according to Nielsen Media Research. It faced tough competition in the time slot from NBC's "Law & Order: SVU" and ABC's "Boston Legal."

Meanwhile, NBC announced the sort-of cancellation of its Wednesday night serial comedy "Kidnapped," which stars Jeremy Sisto. NBC gambled by putting the show in the time slot held for a long time by "Law & Order," and it failed miserably.

"Kidnapped" will be moved to the television purgatory of Saturday nights, starting October 21. Its producers have been told to wrap up the serialized drama's story lines by the end of the show's 13-episode order, NBC said.

Networks have been wrestling with how to satisfy fans who've gotten involved in serialized dramas when the ratings are poor enough for the show to be canceled.

Fox has put its new comedy "Happy Hour" on hiatus, but insists it will return.

Daimyo

10-06-2006, 07:08 PM

Product placement is the obvious trend, but it doesn't bother me as long as it fits in the universe of the show. Who cares if the AI judges drink from giant coke cups? If a Pepsi machine suddenly shows up on Lost that might be a problem...

Honolulu_Blue

10-10-2006, 02:37 PM

Well, perhaps this serialized drama run could be coming to an end...

Serial Dramas Become a Tough Sell
http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/23/78/11/10s.jpg Serial dramas are suddenly finding audiences steering away from them, with CBS yanking Smith (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0805667/), starring Ray Liotta (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000501/) and Virginia Madsen (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000515/), from its schedule, NBC moving Kidnapped (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0771329/), starring Jeremy Sisto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005438/) and Delroy Lindo (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005148/), to the graveyard of Saturday night and ABC losing five million viewers for Lost (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411008/). San Francisco Chronicle TV columnist Tim Goodman observed today (Monday) that ABC's plan to put Lost on hiatus for 13 weeks beginning next month in order to avoid repeats might backfire. (It's being replaced during that period by yet another serial drama, Day Break (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0801425/), starring Taye Diggs (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004875/) and Adam Baldwin (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000284/).) "What if five million more people don't come back?" Goodman asks.

rkmsuf

10-10-2006, 02:43 PM

what possible reason is there to put Lost on hiatus for 3 months after only 4 or 5 episodes?

What am I missing strategy wise here?

Honolulu_Blue

10-10-2006, 02:47 PM

what possible reason is there to put Lost on hiatus for 3 months after only 4 or 5 episodes?

What am I missing strategy wise here?

Because last year a ton or people were pissed that there were so many repeats in between new episodes. It would be new ep, new ep, new ep, repeat, repeat, new ep, repeat, repeat, repeat, etc. The people were frustrated.

I don't think a 3 month hiatus is a better solution. If anything, they could just try and do what Fox does with "24". Have it debut in January and have it run straight through, no repeats/no hiatus. That seems to really work well for that show. Lost is slightly different, but I think it would keep interest in it for the duration.

Then again, I don't run a network. Though they'd be better if I did.

rkmsuf

10-10-2006, 02:50 PM

Because last year a ton or people were pissed that there were so many repeats in between new episodes. It would be new ep, new ep, new ep, repeat, repeat, new ep, repeat, repeat, repeat, etc. The people were frustrated.

I don't think a 3 month hiatus is a better solution. If anything, they could just try and do what Fox does with "24". Have it debut in January and have it run straight through, no repeats/no hiatus. That seems to really work well for that show. Lost is slightly different, but I think it would keep interest in it for the duration.

Then again, I don't run a network. Though they'd be better if I did.

so then the question is why does there have to be repeats if you start in October?

can't they just go straight through with 20 new shows?

ISiddiqui

10-10-2006, 02:53 PM

I don't watch Lost, but I heard a lot of people got frustrated during Season 2 with it. That (as well as the hiatus) may be a reason it lost 5 million viewers and not just disgust with a serialized drama.

Honolulu_Blue

10-10-2006, 02:54 PM

so then the question is why does there have to be repeats if you start in October?

can't they just go straight through with 20 new shows?

You certainly could, though traditional shows run from Sept/Oct through May with sweeps in Nov., Feb., and May. I guess ABC feels like it doesn't want to buck this trend, though if they are showing no new Lost episodes in Nov. it sounds like they sort of are.

Are straight, 20 week run through October is tricky because of the holidays, but something close to that could be possible.

I guess the question becomes, what do you air in that time slot after the show is done? Re-runs? Another show?

rkmsuf

10-10-2006, 02:57 PM

You certainly could, though traditional shows run from Sept/Oct through May with sweeps in Nov., Feb., and May. I guess ABC feels like it doesn't want to buck this trend, though if they are showing no new Lost episodes in Nov. it sounds like they sort of are.

Are straight, 20 week run through October is tricky because of the holidays, but something close to that could be possible.

I guess the question becomes, what do you air in that time slot after the show is done? Re-runs? Another show?

Should they really be concerned with the leftovers after a mega show like Lost has been? I guess they are with the schedule they have.

wade moore

10-10-2006, 07:15 PM

H_B, Everyone must have thrown away their TiVo's ;)...

JonInMiddleGA

10-10-2006, 08:13 PM

Have it debut in January and have it run straight through, no repeats/no hiatus.

Problem was, in this case at least, that the network wanted the lead-in from Lost to help build their new show The Nine.

Whether that works out for them remains to be seen, but the first week was not what they had hoped for as the new show lost nearly 40% of the inherited audience. To put that in perspective, that's 10% more than Invasion failed to hold last year en route to its eventual cancellation.

Ksyrup

10-12-2006, 12:14 PM

To echo what H_B posted:

"Broadcast networks have asked for a serious commitment this fall -- and so far viewers are balking.

The five top broadcasters introduced 12 new hourlong dramas that are serials, mysteries or otherwise advance a larger story each week. They join several hits that already fall into that category, such as Lost, Prison Break and Desperate Housewives.

So far only two such shows, NBC's Heroes and CBS' Jericho, can rightly be said to have exceeded expectations. CBS' Smith has already been canceled and NBC's Kidnapped was told the end is near.

Other slow starters include ABC's The Nine and Brothers & Sisters, NBC's Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip and a handful that need only a glance at their titles to see the obvious debt to Fox's 24: Standoff, Vanished and Runaway.

Last week, for the second straight week, the two most popular shows on prime-time TV -- ABC's Grey's Anatomy and CBS' CSI: Crime Scene Investigation -- aired in the same time slot."

Ksyrup

10-12-2006, 12:16 PM

wade moore

10-12-2006, 12:18 PM

Last week, for the second straight week, the two most popular shows on prime-time TV -- ABC's Grey's Anatomy and CBS' CSI: Crime Scene Investigation -- aired in the same time slot."
This is incredible to me.

Edit: Not that it's these two shows, but that two shows in the same slot are #1 and #2. The number of people watching TV at that time must be overwhelming.

Honolulu_Blue

10-12-2006, 12:27 PM

This is incredible to me.

Edit: Not that it's these two shows, but that two shows in the same slot are #1 and #2. The number of people watching TV at that time must be overwhelming.

It's the magic of TiVO! :D

Honolulu_Blue

10-12-2006, 12:30 PM

JonInMiddleGA

10-12-2006, 12:31 PM

It's the magic of TiVO! :D

And, right on cue ...

http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman/publish/cat_index_31.asp
Ratings haven’t been what NBC had hoped for acclaimed drama “Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip,” but there’s at least one place where it’s a top-10 show – on TiVo. The show was the sixth-most-TiVo’d show the week ended Oct. 7, according to the company, with 14 percent of TiVo users recording the show. That confirms that while the show’s audience may be limited, it’s limited to an affluent demographic that’s long been NBC’s staple, those people wealthy enough to afford a TiVo. (Nielsen does include digital video recording device viewing in its ratings if the show is watched within a week.) The top five most TiVo-ed show for the week ending Oct. 7 were, in order: ABC’s "Grey's Anatomy," ABC’s "Desperate Housewives," ABC’s "Lost," CBS’s "CSI" and CBS’s "Survivor: Cook Islands." ABC's "The Nine," which debuted with a relatively weak showing out of “Lost” last week, ranked 15th. One reason may be that "Nine" has to compete with CBS’s "CSI: NY" in the Wednesday 10 p.m. timeslot, and viewers may have simply chosen to tape the former and watch the latter as it aired live.

Honolulu_Blue

10-12-2006, 12:32 PM

Oh, and my wife's gonna be pissed when I tell her about the Lost hiatus. I saw half the episode last night; first time I've really watched it. The problem with these shows is there's almost no way to add new viewers, so when you lose some, you have no one to replace them with. It's not like with the old stale sitcoms, where they could add a baby and interest new viewers. I was completely "lost" last night...and had no interest in having my wife try to explain 2 years' worth of backstory to make it make sense.

It certainly is an investment. I know quite a few people who have become "new viewers" to the show, but it mainly involved going out and buying/renting the DVDs. I missed the first season of "Lost" because I was overseas. I borrowed a tape from a friend, loved it, and then bought the DVDs to catch up in time for Season 2. It's really the only way.

rkmsuf

10-12-2006, 12:34 PM

Sad, indeed, though the bolded part, at least, makes me very happy. It's the only new show that I've committed to watching. I tried Jericho, but didn't like it. Yay for Heroes!

While a lot of these dramas are failing, are there any new shows (other than Heroes and Jericho) that are particularly doing well? New sitcoms? New reality shows? New procedural dramas?

I think Ugly Betty beat Survivor last week.

JonInMiddleGA

10-12-2006, 12:39 PM

I think Ugly Betty beat Survivor last week.

Yes & No.

Yes, in Total Households (10,654,000 to 10,485,000)
No, in Total Viewers 2+ (14,264,000 to 15,829,000)

Honolulu_Blue

10-12-2006, 12:41 PM

Yes & No.

Yes, in Total Households (10,654,000 to 10,485,000)
No, in Total Viewers 2+ (14,264,000 to 15,829,000)

Bust out some of them thar numbers for us, Little Miss Sunshine. What new shows have been successful thus far?

rkmsuf

10-12-2006, 12:42 PM

Yes & No.

Yes, in Total Households (10,654,000 to 10,485,000)
No, in Total Viewers 2+ (14,264,000 to 15,829,000)

I just went by the rating, mr poopy pants. 9.6 to 9.4

JonInMiddleGA

10-12-2006, 12:45 PM

While a lot of these dramas are failing, are there any new shows (other than Heroes and Jericho) that are particularly doing well? New sitcoms? New reality shows? New procedural dramas?

Shark, Ugly Betty, and Brother & Sisters all had higher ratings than Heroes last week. The Nine & Studio 60 both had higher ratings than Jericho.

The difference in those results (vs what was mentioned in the article quoted about new shows) is that some of these were expected to do well (like "Shark") while others were considered iffy prospects or even longshots (like "Heroes", which some had predicted might be the first new show cancelled).

JonInMiddleGA

10-12-2006, 12:48 PM

Bust out some of them thar numbers for us, Little Miss Sunshine. What new shows have been successful thus far?

Hit this link:
http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman/publish/article_7807.asp

If you scroll past the analysis part, the first of several charts below it actually shows this week's numbers for every new show broken out of the total, neatly packaged together for easy comparision :)

Honolulu_Blue

10-12-2006, 12:50 PM

Hit this link:
http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman/publish/article_7807.asp

If you scroll past the analysis part, the first of several charts below it actually shows this week's numbers for every new show broken out of the total, neatly packaged together for easy comparision :)

Thanks!

Ksyrup

10-12-2006, 12:50 PM

It certainly is an investment. I know quite a few people who have become "new viewers" to the show, but it mainly involved going out and buying/renting the DVDs. I missed the first season of "Lost" because I was overseas. I borrowed a tape from a friend, loved it, and then bought the DVDs to catch up in time for Season 2. It's really the only way.

I guess this dovetails with Subby's DVD thread, because it astounds me that someone would buy a $30-40 DVD collection of episodes they've never seen of a show they've barely watched. I had never really thought of those TV DVD collections in that way, to be honest. Hell, if that's what you're going to do with them, the network should be paying YOU to get you hooked on the show, based on the future ratings they're going to get, not the other way around.

rkmsuf

10-12-2006, 12:51 PM

JonInMiddleGA

10-12-2006, 12:53 PM

Thanks!

No problem.

You might consider bookmarking the main page of that site. It's updated at least four days a week (Mondays are sometimes slow to update) and there's usually an interesting tidbit or two, including analysis of the overnights a lot of days.

While it does talk a lot about TV (from a media buyer's perspective mostly) there's also coverage of other forms of media there too. It's on my "read daily" checklist, just to see if I get some nugget that might be of use to me at some point.

ISiddiqui

10-12-2006, 12:59 PM

About TIVO and Studio 60, I actually do know some people who though the show was great, but don't/can't stay up for an hour show that begins at 10 PM on Monday.

That, and its on against Monday Night Football, which, granted, is now on ESPN, but still a big draw for men.

wade moore

10-12-2006, 01:03 PM

I did pretty well with picking new shows it appears - Heroes, Studio 60, and Standoff (not doing as well).

I am curious to see what happens with Studio 60. It's getting a lot of flack for not living up to expectations, but it's doing well relative to new shows...

wade moore

10-12-2006, 01:03 PM

It's the magic of TiVO! :D

Congrats, I laughed out loud on that one ;).

Bee

10-12-2006, 01:19 PM

I'm surprised Shark is doing well. I found it to be total crap and was actually looking forward to it initially.

I thought Friday Night Lights was pretty decent and am sad to see it not doing better. Of course, being a football fan might skew my view a little on it.

Heroes, Jericho and Studio 60 are the only other new shows that I'm interested in and they all look safe for at least another week or two.

timmynausea

10-12-2006, 01:22 PM

I am curious to see what happens with Studio 60. It's getting a lot of flack for not living up to expectations, but it's doing well relative to new shows...

The thing that worries me about Studio 60 is that it likely has a much larger budget than the other new shows. The cast is pretty much star-studded, especially for a TV show. The West Wing didn't really take off ratingswise until the second year, though, so they may be more apt to give it a chance.

wade moore

10-12-2006, 01:36 PM

The thing that worries me about Studio 60 is that it likely has a much larger budget than the other new shows. The cast is pretty much star-studded, especially for a TV show. The West Wing didn't really take off ratingswise until the second year, though, so they may be more apt to give it a chance.

And perhaps, with those bigger stars, there could be some concern about contract guarantees? Like maybe have them have contracts longer than a year in order to do the show?

Pure speculation, but it sure seems possible.

Bee

10-12-2006, 01:44 PM

I'd also think Aaron Sorkin (or whatever his name is) would get a little more leeway to turn things around than most others because of previous success.

wade moore

10-12-2006, 01:52 PM

I'd also think Aaron Sorkin (or whatever his name is) would get a little more leeway to turn things around than most others because of previous success.

Aren't his three big things SportsNight, West Wing, and this?

*checks IMDB*

yeah, and he wrote "A Few Good Men"...

SportsNight, while many enjoy it, didn't do that well...

So, idano that he has the clout of say... Aaron Spelling (before he died).. to get extra time with poor ratings.