Relationship trust issues...serious advice needed (LONG post)

[kingnebwsu]

UPDATE in post 58
-----------------

Thanks in advance to anyone who reads the whole post…

So I'm currently having some issues with my girlfriend. Let me give some background of the situation:

I'm 27 and she's 21
She's a senior in college and works part-time
I graduated from college in '02 and work full-time
We've been dating for over two years and have lived together for most of that time
She cheated on her boyfriend to hookup with me back in '04
Things were awesome for the first year-plus, okay for the next six months, crappy for the 4 months after, and okay since then.

---

So anyway, I thought it would be cool if I got her to play some sort of PC/console game with me (since I’m a big gamer) and I got her hooked on World of Warcraft. She and I played together for about 3-4 months and it was pretty good, but then she got hooked moreso than I ever was (and I played it quite a bit). She leveled past me, got into a guild, did end-game stuff, started chatting on ventrilo with her other guild members and so forth. I thought it was cool that she was hooked to a game. This summer when she was out of school, she played it all the time. Like literally for 6+ hours a day. It was scary. But I was fine with it, since I know what it’s like to be hooked on games (but probably not that bad).

So what happened recently was she began chatting more and more on ventrilo/in-game/text messaging a guy from her guild. I was okay with it at first, but then they began to text message each other several times a day. I don’t know much about this guy, other than my girlfriend says that this guy “has a girlfriend named Liz” but yet he still text messages my girlfriend several times a day. I would jokingly say “you have a message from your boyfriend” but then that kinda got old…

One day I picked up her phone (which looks just like my phone) and was going to text one of my male buddies, but saw it was her phone. Then my nosiness took on a life of its own (a whole thread could probably go about my insecurities/trust issues, but I only want advice on those as it pertains to this situation). I began reading all the text messages to & from this random guild-member guy she’s been chatting with so much. I started freaking out because one of them was a message my girlfriend sent to him which said “I went over there after class and he made me lunch…then we just watched a movie and talked…” It’s like, wtf, is she cheating on me/wanting to cheat on me? Another message was from my girlfriend saying “a pizza came delivered to me tonight when I was at work and it was already paid for by him.” There were also messages from him to my girlfriend saying words like “darling” and stuff like that.

I was pretty upset after reading about all this stuff, so I confronted her about it. She seemed pretty stunned by the whole thing and I made it very clear where I stood. I said, “if you want to move on with your life or see other people, then do it. Don’t see what else is out there while I’m at home waiting. Do whatever you want to do.” She then was pretty upset, thought for a minute, and then said “you’re gonna think I’m crazy when I tell you this…back in high school I used to go to chat rooms and I would make things up.” My girlfriend said that’s what was happening here. She said there wasn’t any other guy she was seeing, that she made the whole thing up. I was still pretty concerned by it, and quite concerned that this guy who she chats with all the time thinks she’s SINGLE. It’s lying by omission if she doesn’t even f’in mention me to someone she talks with (almost more than me this summer).

After all this she said she’d stop talking with him, “cancel warcraft for a couple of months” and spend more time with me. This was about 2-3 weeks ago.

Current situation is: she plays less warcraft, but mostly because she’s in school now. She mainly plays her secondary lower-level character and doesn’t chat on ventrilo that I’ve seen. She still text messages the guy (not sure how often) and she mostly deletes the messages since she knows I check on them. They texted each other like 5 times each today, but my girlfriend deleted the outgoing messages and left the incoming ones. One of the incoming messages was “has Ben [me] decided where he’s living yet?” It’s like…wtf. So this guy now apparently knows that she has a boyfriend, but from what I gather this guy thinks that me and my girlfriend have broken up? Just weird. We do spend a little more time together. So that’s one out of three things she’s delivered on. It’s quite disconcerting to say the least.

She said she’d stop talking with him (2-3 weeks ago) and they still text message (and maybe chat on warcraft). She told me as recently as 5 days ago that she was going to not text him anymore and “hope he’d get the hint.” But obviously that hasn’t happened. She also hasn’t cancelled her warcraft for even a month or two, and got upset when I reminded her of the promise she made to me TO cancel it.

So that’s where things are as of right now. I honestly don’t know what to do. I’ve only had one serious relationship prior to this, and that ended back in high school when my ex-girlfriend’s family moved several states away. So ending a relationship of my own accord is something unfamiliar to me. And I don’t know if I want to end it or not. Another factor is that my girlfriend has been semi-pushing me to the marriage train. I’m on the fence on the whole “having kids” issue and she definitely wants kids. I told her I wouldn’t propose until I was sure I wanted them. Also, my brother recently got engaged and I think my other brother will also shortly be engaged.

Questions I’m trying to answer:

How can I even think about marrying someone with whom I’m having significant trust issues?

Should I trust her completely, or is that just foolish?

This situation can’t continue as is, so how do I handle it when I confront her? Do I give an ultimatum that they can’t chat anymore or else?
When I confront her, do I want to stay in the relationship?

If she can lie like this to multiple parties, how can I trust her again?

----

I’m just really frustrated with the whole thing, because I don’t know what to do. This (along with the steady deterioration of the relationship) makes me want to just give up. Another factor to consider is that I don’t get many dates/have many girlfriends. If I choose to move on, this could be my last relationship for a long time (she was my first serious girlfriend in 6 years). I don’t fear loneliness or anything, just something else to think about. I also don’t want her to be having an emotional affair with some online guy from another state. Even if they don’t meet in reality to fool around, the emotional betrayal is about as bad as a physical one. I also don’t want to be the chump boyfriend who sticks around long after he shouldn’t. But I don’t want to ruin something that could be lifelong…or something.

One last note, she didn’t delete the guy’s phone number from her cell phone. She instead changed the name he’s under to “Ashley G.” I checked the phone number and it’s the same one as the guy, so I know it’s him.

Sorry about the ranting post, but I don’t know where else to turn. All of my local friends are also her friends, so I don’t want to make it awkward on them. I know a lot of you guys have good & bad experiences that could enlighten me and help me make the right decision. It’s weird thinking that a choice I make right now could affect the rest of my life. Being grown up sucks sometimes... :(

[Axxon]

Wow, tough situation man.

I'd say though that she's already cheated on one boyfriend and now she hides a guys name but keeps the number, that really, really, really doesn't bode well no matter how you slice it.

[Shkspr]

Truthfully, it doesn't sound like this is going to be the love of your life. She's deceiving you with regards to her intent; you're having trust issues (valid ones). You will break up.

So a few questions:

Are there kids involved?
Are you two financially entangled?
Are there domestic abuse issues?
Are there public health issues (STDs being exchanged)?

If the answer to all those questions are "no", then you aren't going to have any permanent effects from the relationship and you can decide how quickly you want to effect a breakup. You can be the guy who hangs around too long if you want, or you can be the angry guy who causes a scene and calls the ex a whore. You can take the high road and talk everything out, or you can dump her by text message.

The important thing is this: you've been given a chance here where you know that this girl is not the "one". So long as you don't damage her or yourself in any permanent way, take this as an opportunity to learn how to deal with problems in your relationship so that you know what NOT to do when you DO meet the girl you're going to spend your life with. We aren't born knowing everything we need to deal with other people. To be good at relationships requires practice - this is a class in crisis management. :)

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Ditto.

[Desnudo]

If you really want serious advice, then you should probably, look somewhere else besides a message board. That said, here are some brief thoughts:

1. There's a huge maturity difference between 27 and 21. You may take the relationship a lot more seriously than she does.

2. Your trust issues, searching her cell phone, etc., mean the relationship is already over. You can't spy on someone and then expect a normal relationship afterwards.

3. Being alone isn't a reason to stay in a relationship

Good luck with getting things sorted out.

[Chief Rum]

king,

I know this is hard to hear, but everything she's doing seems really shady to me. And, yes, the fact she was willing to cheat on past boyfriends is relevant, too.

You're 27, and that's still very young. As they say, if she really loves you, she will come back to you. But I think you're going to have to stand up to her and put your foot down. Tell her basically, stop all contact or it's over. If she's serious, she will do it. If not, then she's not the one, and you should move on.

[Chief Rum]

If you really want serious advice, then you should probably, look somewhere else besides a message board. That said, here are some brief thoughts:

1. There's a huge maturity difference between 27 and 21. You may take the relationship a lot more seriously than she does.

2. Your trust issues, searching her cell phone, etc., mean the relationship is already over. You can't spy on someone and then expect a normal relationship afterwards.

3. Being alone isn't a reason to stay in a relationship

Good luck with getting things sorted out.

I agree with all of this. Particularly 2. Even if you guys get past this, that is also a huge issue.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

On another note, if she's putting out on a regular basis, stay with her as you search for the next one. This way, you can avoid your worry of being alone. Just check out of it emotionally in the meantime. You don't have to have sex on the side with other women while you're still in the "relationship," just start your search and find the next one before you end it. You'll also find that because it appears you are in a relationship, you will be more desirable to other women. I would describe this an alternative option you can have some fun with.

[Lorena]

Damn those MMORPGs, they're seriously addicting and I used to spend hours and hours on Everquest just to get a stupid mace, so I know how difficult it is to remove myself from the game when so much time is invested in it.

BUT, If she is serious about the relationship she has with you, the account should be cancelled, no ands ifs or buts about it. World of Warcraft is after all a game and everything in that world should belong where it is, in fantasyland. Once it spills over to real life, there's a problem. The fact she left her previous boyfriend to be with you should raise some flags... she did it once, chances are it might happen again. I mean the girl is hiding his name using a chick's name?

Good luck with that, it's tough to end a relationship but you're still young and the right girl will come at the right time. Stay strong and better to end it sooner than later.

[Axxon]

I mean the girl is hiding his name using a chick's name?

Well, Ashley is kinda a gender neutral name actually but since we both said the same thing I agree with you. :)

[Groundhog]

I'm afraid right now that you are being the chump that is hanging around too long. The fact that she's sneaking around and flirting with a dude behind your back, telling him that you are moving out, and renaming numbers in her phone to hide it from you are all very, very, very bad signs.

Get out now or you will only get hurt more and more. Just angrily tell her that nothing has changed, and you finding out has only made her act more secretive about everything. Tell her that she's taking you for granted and treating you like shit, and that you're better than that. Walk away with your dignity.

[thesloppy]

I'll just echo what others have said in relaiton to a previous history of cheating. I'm assuming by the chronology you've laid out in your post that you started dating when she was under 20, and if someone establishes a history of cheating (and/or being cheated on) at a somewhat young age it can very easily establish itself as a pattern that is repeated throughout much of their lives, especially if they just string one relationship into another. There is a possibility that she is merely fishing for attention, as she's suggested, but if she is that hungry for attention that she needs to have 2 real men, and a third imaginary one, to keep her occupied, then it surely seems that if she's not cheating on you now she most probably will be sooner or later.

You mention that you have your own trust issues, and it can be an unwelcome side effect that people with low self esteem and/or trust issues, seek out others with those same issues, but such couplings rarely end well. At the very least consider that she is actively lying to you, and doing her best to cover up another relationship, and regardless of the nature of that relationship, you are being taken advantage of. Lots of people get into these co-dependant relationships because they want to 'fix' their partner's tendencies, and in doing so 'fix' themselves, but once the bottom falls out it is key that you put your own feelings first and put aside any thoughts of guilt that come from abandoning someone who is treating you like dirt. By staying in such a relationship you only further damage your own self esteem.

To be frank, it speaks volumes that nowhere in your post did you mention that you loved your girlfriend, or any measure of fondness at all, and if those feelings are absent, or you find yourself saying things like "I think we're in love" all you're doing is punishing yourself by staying in such a relationship. Protect yourself and cut your losses, even if you can work through this instance, these exact issues will likely rise again in the future, just as they have in the past, and although it seems frightening and painful to pull the plug, the best bet for both of you is to make a fresh start with someone else (or spend some time alone working on yourself).

If you do decide to end it, do yourself a favor and do it above the board with complete honesty. Don't cheat, don't try and make it as painful as possible in order to force her hand, don't shop for another girl while leading her on, don't do any of that underhanded crap, because that shit will stick with you both. She needs to know that such behavior is unacceptable, and does not lead to happy relationships, or else she'll continue this behavior throughout the rest of her life, with you or not. Likewise you need to show yourself that you value your own feelings enough to stand up for them, and you need to know that you can indeed survive on your lonesome even if for only a brief time, and you don't need some dysfunctional relationship to keep you afloat. If you go shopping for another and/or make the break-up as painful as possible you'll only be enforcing and perpetuating the same issues that both of you have, which brought you here in the first place. Easier said than done, I know, but this is truly the healthiest thing you could do for the both of you.

Best of luck in whatever choice you make.

[Axxon]

I'm afraid right now that you are being the chump that is hanging around too long. The fact that she's sneaking around and flirting with a dude behind your back, telling him that you are moving out, and renaming numbers in her phone to hide it from you are all very, very, very bad signs.

Get out now or you will only get hurt more and more. Just angrily tell her that nothing has changed, and you finding out has only made her act more secretive about everything. Tell her that she's taking you for granted and treating you like shit, and that you're better than that. Walk away with your dignity.

So, create a melodramatic angry scene then walk away with your dignity? ;)

[SackAttack]

She cheated on her boyfriend to hookup with me back in '04

This is the part I'm keying on, dude.

You know why.

[Groundhog]

So, create a melodramatic angry scene then walk away with your dignity? ;)

Exactly! Hey, it worked for me about 4 months ago. :)

[stevew]

I would suggest that you work at removing yourself from any shared accounts with her, cell phone/rent/utilities, etc in the short term. She can't be trusted, so there's no point in letting her fuck up your credit too.

You seem to be in some sort of transitional period with her and cockbuster. Good luck resolving all of that.

And i seem to remember some odd post from you in the past where you were getting stalked or somehting? Good chance that's her fault as well, perhaps.

[stevew]

Reading back, around the time your car got vandalized, would you have any inkling to believe that she may have been angry/cheating on you? That shit sounded way too weird to be totally random. Chicks get mad at you and fuck up your car.

Just a thought anyways.

[bulletsponge]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingnebwsu
She cheated on her boyfriend to hookup with me back in '04


This is the part I'm keying on, dude.

You know why.


i didnt read his whole post but if thats the case than he should have never started dating her.

i guess now is the time to mention my WOW almost screwed up moment. i was almost "the other guy" once. i was real friendly with a girl that plays and she started flirting, and naturally i recipocated. but then i found out that she was recently married, and then she gave me her phone number to call "just to chat". needless to say this i didnt feel comfortable with her being married so i never called. she then pressed me a little more until i decided to just stop playing in that game realm anymore. well that and i got burned out on WOW. now i dont know if what would have happened would have been anything like what King is talking about, but once i find out a woman is married or taken, i take he off my radar. i dont cheat in any way, and i dont want a woman that does.

my 2c

[Draft Dodger]

desnudo pretty much hit the nail on the head. this will never work itself out

[CraigSca]

I hate to get all Dr. Phil on you, but the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, unless there's some life-changing event. It sounds like there's not one here.

Oh, and I think you KNOW what you should do here - you just need us to help you. Bottom line is, she's LYING to you, and she CONTINUES to lie to you. THAT'S how much she cares about you.

It's hard to understand now, but there IS someone out there who will be everything you want as well as loyal and honest.

[bulletsponge]

memo to King- dump her while you still have your sanity

[Drake]

Get out now.

[Rizon]

I'm 27 and she's 21
She's a senior in college and works part-time
I graduated from college in '02 and work full-time
We've been dating for over two years and have lived together for most of that time
She cheated on her boyfriend to hookup with me back in '04
Things were awesome for the first year-plus, okay for the next six months, crappy for the 4 months after, and okay since then.


Sorry, it is over. Typical warning signs bolded.
The only reason she is with you is because you have a pad.

[bulletsponge]

ge her a card with flowers. on the card write "welcome to dumpsville. population You"

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sorry, it is over. Typical warning signs bolded.
The only reason she is with you is because you have a pad.

Agreed. I didn't even need to read much past the first few main facts to figure out this is a big mess. This guy really needs to move on. She is not the one for him at all. He'll honestly be much happier without her. If it wasn't for sex, my suspicion is that he'd have already moved on by now because there doesn't seem to be much else to keep this relationship going.

[Ramzavail]

get her a card with flowers. on the card write "welcome to dumpsville. population You"

fantastic post.

[Qwikshot]

I've been in this situation, you move on. Be thankful, I have a child that I help raise. You got to enjoy the pleasure of being the older guy with the younger girl. I'm turning 31 in November, and I am having fun with a beautiful little 21 year old senior in college right now. There is hope.

[stevew]

I think you gotta teabag or steamer her before you go, though. Tough love baby.

:)

Okay, maybe not that harsh, but it would be nice if you could inflict some retribution pain on her.

Do this before you end up wasting any money on christmas gifts for her.

[bob]

It amazes me when this situation plays out (and it does over and over again):

1) Person A hooks up with someone who is cheating on their significant other.
2) Relationship blooms (move in together, get married, have kids, etc).
3) Cheater cheats again.
4) Person A is shocked that it happened.

[lordscarlet]

I read about.. 40% of the replies. I'm probably re-echoing some things here, but I will go into this fresh.

First of all, I will re-echo what I know people have said -- getting into a relationship with someone via that person cheating on their current SO is bad news. It has always been my policy to not do such things. (There may be new information here for my bro to read if he checks out the replies here, but not sure :) ).

I've been on multiple sides of this situation. My ex and I went on a break. During that time I got... close to a female friend of mine. She had a boyfriend that didn't treat her well. We got to hanging out a lot, talking online and through texts a lot, sometimes quite inappropriately. I refused to actually "do" anything with her because I didn't want to end up in the situation you're in. When my ex and I ended the break, I continued the conversations for a little bit. My ex ended up demanding I cease communication and I eventually did. Fast forward a couple years to when we have moved into a house I bought and were engaged. My ex (really killed the ending, haven't I? :)) started talking a lot to a guy in the neighborhood. Long story short, I got very suspicious and read her email (much like you did). This confirmed my suspicions and that was the end of it. Fast Forward another 6 months or so and I had another girlfriend living with me. I got suspicious again and questioned her on something ("Why do you have a big red mark on your neck after hanging out with your friends for a few days for New Year's?" "My friend [insert female name] and I were wrestling and she bit me." "Yeah right."). That girlfriend broke up with me for not trusting her. She did the right thing (And very possibly cheated as well, but even if she didn't it doesn't particularly matter).

Once you question someone's loyalty in a relationship it's over.

That's my stream of consciousness $.02.

[JS19]

Didn't read all the replies, but the whole trust thing is huge. If there is no trust, then there is nothing there. Thats how I feel anyway, if I cant trust you (talking about relationships here) then you are useless and it will never work. I was in a similar situation I suppose back in high school. Probably wasn't as serious being it was a high school thing, but I was with the girl from when i was 15-19, then found all these little text messages and such and ended it right there. Sure it was hard, but i'm not the type to go on living thinking things are just fine. I see a bunch of friends with their girlfriends who do the same shit and they just cant get out of it and are miserable anyway. Not trying to put you down or anything, but when I see my friends with a girl like this I say "You sir, are a sucker". I know it would be a hard thing to do, but my advice would be to end it and it will be well worth it in the long run.

[lordscarlet]

It amazes me when this situation plays out (and it does over and over again):

1) Person A hooks up with someone who is cheating on their significant other.
2) Relationship blooms (move in together, get married, have kids, etc).
3) Cheater cheats again.
4) Person A is shocked that it happened.

I couldn't agree more.

[Malificent]

http://www.michaelworth.com/photos/T_Bird_6_eject.jpg

[Desnudo]

It amazes me when this situation plays out (and it does over and over again):

1) Person A hooks up with someone who is cheating on their significant other.
2) Relationship blooms (move in together, get married, have kids, etc).
3) Cheater cheats again.
4) Person A is shocked that it happened.

There's always a larger wang

[M GO BLUE!!!]

If you want to protect yourself, take a different attitude. Don't get angry with her over this guy... She actually probably likes your jealousy. It shows you care. Go about things pretty much the same, except don't give a damn what she does. Let her go online as much as she wants. Let her play her games, and ignore them. Look for someone else yourself. And when you have relations... wear a condom. Treat her with the respect she is deserving. And if you really feel like it, find a new place and don't tell her you're moving out. Surprise her! And if you do move out, let her come back to the apartment and find everything of yours gone and change your cell number.

[Coffee Warlord]

http://dev.robertbrandt.com/temp/abandon.jpg

[dbd1963]

It is over. Don't waste another second of your time.

[Izulde]

Yeah this one's over and done with.

You're only in for more misery if you stay with this chick.. and if you're really a masochist, you're much better off being a Raiders fan with jbmagic.

[thesloppy]

Your chick was already banging some other dude three weeks ago on sportsdigs

[Coffee Warlord]

My god, I just realized what this thread was lacking.

Pix Plz.

[JediKooter]

Get out while you can. She's 21, she ain't got a clue as to what she wants or what she is doing. You're just providing a roof over her head for the moment until she finds someone else she thinks is more interesting and can provide a roof over her head.

The good news is, there's plenty of other ladies out there. Now go have some fun!!!!

[chinaski]

She cheated on her boyfriend to hookup with me back in '04


I stopped reading after that. I've told this to so many people now, i cant understand how I continue see this. You never, ever, ever should think youre going to have a relationship with someone who has cheated on their former partner, with you. Sure, if youre willing to be the mistress and get laid on the side and let this other person be a shithead to their partner - thats one thing. But why would you ever want to have a committed relationship with someone who you already know is a cheater? Dont try to build a house on sand.

[Eaglesfan27]

If you really want serious advice, then you should probably, look somewhere else besides a message board. That said, here are some brief thoughts:

1. There's a huge maturity difference between 27 and 21. You may take the relationship a lot more seriously than she does.

2. Your trust issues, searching her cell phone, etc., mean the relationship is already over. You can't spy on someone and then expect a normal relationship afterwards.

3. Being alone isn't a reason to stay in a relationship

Good luck with getting things sorted out.


This sums it up perfectly. Also, the fact that she cheated on a past boyfriend to hook up with you is a big red flag.

[kingnebwsu]

I would suggest that you work at removing yourself from any shared accounts with her, cell phone/rent/utilities, etc in the short term. She can't be trusted, so there's no point in letting her fuck up your credit too.

You seem to be in some sort of transitional period with her and cockbuster. Good luck resolving all of that.

And i seem to remember some odd post from you in the past where you were getting stalked or somehting? Good chance that's her fault as well, perhaps.

Thanks for all the thoughts guys. I probably seem like kind of a loser by seeking advice from a message board, but shrug. I feel like I emotionally checked out of the relationship several months ago. I wouldn't stick around for the sex either, because that has significantly dropped off in the last 6 months.

I feel like I'm in a transition period of sorts now. I feel like I need to make change(s) in my life, and I'm trying to figure that out.

I guess I did build my house on sand, so that's my fault. She cheated on her ex with me, then dumped him the next time she saw him.

There are no kids, no STD's as far as I know, so nothing permanent happens if we break up.

I E-mailed the situation to a buddy of mine in Columbus, and he said "I never really liked her that much. She always seemed a little immature and pouty and maybe a little possessive, the kind of person that might throw a little tantrum if they don't get their way, and the kind of person that might go all passive aggressive if the tantrum doesn't work."

Ouch. But only a true friend would say something like that about how they really feel. And honestly, I think he's pretty much right on. I guess that's not normal relationship behavior (or is it?).

Will I be able to dump her? I'm a pretty big wuss, so I'll have to be real strong and pump myself up to make it happen.

Is it also weird that I'd rather hang out playing video games than to hang out with my girlfriend? I've felt like that for a while now.

One last thing, I almost dumped her several times before. But never quite got the gumption to do it.

I was much happier when I was single for 6 years. I do remember being lonely sometimes, but so much more $$$ and free time. Grass is always greener, eh?

[kingnebwsu]

Dola, is it also weird that one of the (secretly) big reasons I wanted to move this summer was to a place I could afford by myself in case we did break up? Our old apartment was $750 and the current one is $500. That's probably a sign that I'm not happy if that's something I was thinking about while we were moving, eh?

[lordscarlet]

Do something. It would be super lame to do a phone call or note or email, but clearly you want out. Being a wuss is no excuse. Do it the shitty way. You're a bigger asshole to take a cop-out method than you are to make her think you want to stay with her and just wasting a significant part of both of your lives.

[st.cronin]

Thanks in advance to anyone who reads the whole post…

So I'm currently having some issues with my girlfriend. Let me give some background of the situation:

I'm 27 and she's 21
She's a senior in college and works part-time
I graduated from college in '02 and work full-time
We've been dating for over two years and have lived together for most of that time
She cheated on her boyfriend to hookup with me back in '04
Things were awesome for the first year-plus, okay for the next six months, crappy for the 4 months after, and okay since then.


All I took in was the two bolded parts, and I've decided you need to 'cut and run,' as fast as possible. Of course, it's your life, and you need to learn those lessons for yourself. To me, this is an incredibly easy decision.

[Young Drachma]

I never thought much of the whole "oh there is an age difference" thing..until about a year or so ago. Getting someone closer to where you are mentally, discounting age, seems to be a much better idea IMHO.

[sabotai]

Will I be able to dump her? I'm a pretty big wuss, so I'll have to be real strong and pump myself up to make it happen.

First off, it goes without saying that I agree with everyone. Sever. As soon as possible.

Here's a few bits I didn't see mentioned in the replies that might get you pumped up.

1) Things were awesome for the first year-plus, okay for the next six months, crappy for the 4 months after, and okay since then.

Everyone keyed on the past cheating. Relevant, yes, but to me this is the biggest piece of info you posted in your original post. You basically said that for the last year, you would rate your ralationship between "crappy" and "okay". I think if you polled everyone here, the vast majority would rate their relationship above "okay". An entire year of "crappy to okay" means it isn't working, regardless of the problems.

2) You caught her red handed and she said all those things were lies. I think you were gullable to believe her, if you did, but here's what caught my attention. What did she promise? To spend more time with you? So basically, for punishment of her deception, she is going to spend more time with you. Spending more time with you is a punishment for her (when she was apparently spending very little time with you before).

I was much happier when I was single for 6 years. I do remember being lonely sometimes, but so much more $$$ and free time. Grass is always greener, eh?

I know the feeling very well. I went through a very long, "off and on", "it's going to end, the only question is when" type of relationship. The grass is always greener.

[dawgfan]

I agree with pretty much everything said here, but let me add one more thing - you obviously aren't that happy in the current relationship, and it doesn't sound like there's even much of a benefit in getting sex out of it. With that in mind, the sooner you end this relationship, the sooner you can move on to a new, better, healthier relationship.

I know ending relationships isn't fun, but you just have to nut up and do it. Post-poning it only makes it worse.

[bulletsponge]

i agree with the sinking ship and ejection seat pics

[gkb]

I've always felt it was better to be alone than in a crappy relationship. The quicker you can get out of this one the better off you'll be. Once you end it, don't let her try to manipulate you back into it. When she sees you move on with your life she might try and drag you back down...decide now that you won't let that happen. Get out of the relationship, get back to being you, get over her, and when you're ready, start dating again.

[DaddyTorgo]

One last note, she didn’t delete the guy’s phone number from her cell phone. She instead changed the name he’s under to “Ashley G.” I checked the phone number and it’s the same one as the guy, so I know it’s him.

** that right there is the "goodbye" signal to me **

[Craptacular]

Punt. This is not 4th and 3 at midfield in a tie game. This is 4th and 12 on your own 15 in a game you're leading by 2 TDs.

[dbd1963]

One last note, she didn’t delete the guy’s phone number from her cell phone. She instead changed the name he’s under to “Ashley G.” I checked the phone number and it’s the same one as the guy, so I know it’s him.

** that right there is the "goodbye" signal to me **

That's where I abandoned all hope too.

I keep hearing "Don't make the mistakes I made" in my head, so, really, don't.

[Daimyo]

In general girls have no idea what they want until at least 25 and can't really be counted on (guys aren't much better in that respect). Get out as fast as possible and find someone more mature next time.

[kingnebwsu]

So it's 2:30 AM and we just had a 2.5 hour talk/she bawled a lot. We were sitting downstairs and her cell phone buzzed once. Translation: text message. I pick up the phone, open it up and see it's a message from "Ashley G" and click through a couple more recently received messages from her internet buddy. I tossed the phone to her and said "I'm not an idiot." [Quick aside, in the car today she asked me about any good scary movies to recommend to people since everyone in her class knows she works at lackluster. One of the text messages was from her internet buddy asking about scary movies. The two-faced stuff continues...] I then went upstairs to use the restroom and surf the net for a few.

I came back down several minutes later and sat on the couch with her. She looked semi-pissed off at what just happened. We sat there in silence for like 5+ minutes and then I finally said "I thought you said you were going to stop talking with him."

Silence from her.

"When we talked several weeks ago you said you would stop text messaging him."

She then mumbled "I felt bad for him."

I said that I should be more important than some random guy on the internet. I also said that I was having severe trust issues because she said she would stop talking with this guy and she didn't. I asked her how I could trust her when she promised she'd do something and then not do it. I talked about, if we're looking to take the relationship to the next level and get married, how I could marry someone who I didn't trust. I also said that I can't watch her all the time to see who she's talking to. I said I didn't WANT to have to watch her at all. I said I'd rather trust her to not talk with other guys like that.

She really didn't respond to anything. We mostly sat in awkward silence for 5-10+ minutes at a time between my comments. I kept asking her if she wanted to say anything and she just shook her head no. I asked her "are you happy with our relationship?" and she responded "no." I said I just wanted her to be happy. She said she wanted me to be more affectionate (like she said last time we talked, and I've only been okay at that since then). I told her the reason I've been distant lately is because of the trust issue. We sat in silence for a while longer.

I finally said "I don't know if things can ever go back to how they were." and then I said something like I don't know if I can be in a relationship with her anymore. She covered her face and started crying. She cried for a bit and then went upstairs.

I followed her into the bedroom and she was bawling pretty hard. I left the room and came back a few minutes later and sat on the bed with her. This was the first time that I started to get upset. I guess I still do care, because seeing her so upset really bothered me. We just kinda laid there for a long time. I asked her what she wanted and she just shrugged. I kinda just held her there for a while. She tried to get to where she could kiss me and I just turned away. We laid there for a while and then I left the bedroom. She then went downstairs with her pillow and alarm clock.

I also went downstairs and said she could sleep upstairs if she wanted, but she said "after what you said, I should just sleep down here." I sat down there for a bit and then said "good night" and came upstairs. Now I'm posting here.

So it went a little different than I thought. I thought she'd be royally pissed and angry. She wasn't, she was just sad and hurt. I did pretty well overall, keeping my composure. I just hate seeing her so upset. Maybe cuz I'm a nice guy or something?

I don't think we're broken up, but I don't think we're exactly together either. We're somewhere in-between. She gets back from school tomorrow around 2:30 and works at 5. I'm off tomorrow. Thursday morning I work and she has a school meeting that night til like 9. So this will give us some time apart to think about what we're going to do.

I almost feel like she's the kind of person who digs herself into a rut and won't get herself out, even if it's bad (though this is nowhere near as bad as it was with her ex). I think I'm trying to get out because I'm looking for something else. I don't know what...but something else.

We may end up staying together, I honestly don't know right now. But if I do stay with her, that's more or less saying what she did with the text messaging is acceptable, which it's not to me. Severing the tie is gonna be the toughest thing if we do breakup.

It's almost 3 AM now and I'm gonna have trouble sleeping tonight. On the one hand I'm sad about how things look like they're going to turn out. On another hand, I'm able to sing along with the music I'm listening to. Am I suppressing how I feel? Quite possibly. Though the toughest part of the night was laying there with her, thinking this could be the last time I hold her in my arms...and that was tough. But sometimes things hurt and you have to move on. I'm a worrier, so I'm always afraid that I'm going to make the wrong decision (whether that's staying with her or breaking up).

I know I set her up for a pretty good slam on this board, but what she did just wasn't right.

I appreciate anyone's advice and stuff in this thread. I haven't felt like this in 8 years (when I broke up with my only other serious girlfriend). I'll keep you guys posted as to what happens.

Hope I can sleep soon...

-Ben

[Lorena]

Ben,

About her crying, it's a female mechanism used to lure people back in... don't fall for it!! I'm happy to hear you did what you did... bravo! http://forum.chip.co.id/images/smilies/extra/clap.gif It took major balls and you handled it beautifully by not giving in.

The "I feel sorry for him" comment kinda ticked me off. So she feels sorry for a guy she's never met in person, but doesn't feel bad for what she's doing to you emotionally? What a crock...

Don't feel bad about posting your problems on here, it doesn't make you a "loser". I'm very fond of this community and don't see it as just an internet thing. We have all posted pictures of our kids, shared the news about buying a new home, and it's made this community what it is. I can honestly call several people on here "friends".

I'm proud of the way you handled it, good luck tomorrow.

[Rizon]

1) Tomorrow dump her completely. As in, kick her out for good.

2) Like DC said, the crying is just a con. Women, or "girl" in this case, can do it on a whim. She's only upset she got caught and might lose her place to stay. Do. Not. Fall. For. This. I can't stress that enough. Females will try everything to con: crying, getting angry and turning things around to make you feel guilty, trying to have sex with you (the trying to kiss you part).

3) If you are not broken up but not together, that means she can no longer feel guilty about the other guy nailing her. She now has a roof over her head with no committment. Basically she wins.

4) Don't stay in the relationship to hope you can change her. 100% of relationships fail when one person thinks they can fix the broken one. People like her can't be fixed.

5) She's lied to you more times than you could probably count. Which means she'll continue to lie to you until you stop letting her.

[Izulde]

1) Tomorrow dump her completely. As in, kick her out for good.

2) Like DC said, the crying is just a con. Women, or "girl" in this case, can do it on a whim. She's only upset she got caught and might lose her place to stay. Do. Not. Fall. For. This. I can't stress that enough. Females will try everything to con: crying, getting angry and turning things around to make you feel guilty, trying to have sex with you (the trying to kiss you part).

3) If you are not broken up but not together, that means she can no longer feel guilty about the other guy nailing her. She now has a roof over her head with no committment. Basically she wins.

4) Don't stay in the relationship to hope you can change her. 100% of relationships fail when one person thinks they can fix the broken one. People like her can't be fixed.

5) She's lied to you more times than you could probably count. Which means she'll continue to lie to you until you stop letting her.

Correct!

As someone who's wasted literal years of his life before in not being able to let go, I agree with everything here.

Make the break and make it completely.

She's a toxin. Get rid of the poison. The fact that you were happier when you were single says it all to me.

[CraigSca]

Ben-

As other said, the fact she felt "sorry" for the other guy and still spoke to him despite the repercussions with you speaks VOLUMES. She can't cry and says she upset out of one side of her mouth and then continue to pull this crap with the other side.

YOU NEED TO MOVE ON.

Years from now, you'll probably still care about her a little and wonder what she's up to. However, the majority of your feelings will be out-and-out embarassment and anger (at yourself) that you let this slide this long.

Believe me, we've all been in crap relationships before. I'm very happily married now, and I still kick myself as to why I was such a moron with other women before I finally met my wife.

[Desnudo]

So it's 2:30 AM and we just had a 2.5 hour talk/she bawled a lot. We were sitting downstairs and her cell phone buzzed once. Translation: text message. I pick up the phone, open it up and see it's a message from "Ashley G" and click through a couple more recently received messages from her internet buddy. I tossed the phone to her and said "I'm not an idiot." [Quick aside, in the car today she asked me about any good scary movies to recommend to people since everyone in her class knows she works at lackluster. One of the text messages was from her internet buddy asking about scary movies. The two-faced stuff continues...] I then went upstairs to use the restroom and surf the net for a few.

I came back down several minutes later and sat on the couch with her. She looked semi-pissed off at what just happened. We sat there in silence for like 5+ minutes and then I finally said "I thought you said you were going to stop talking with him."

Silence from her.

"When we talked several weeks ago you said you would stop text messaging him."

She then mumbled "I felt bad for him."

I said that I should be more important than some random guy on the internet. I also said that I was having severe trust issues because she said she would stop talking with this guy and she didn't. I asked her how I could trust her when she promised she'd do something and then not do it. I talked about, if we're looking to take the relationship to the next level and get married, how I could marry someone who I didn't trust. I also said that I can't watch her all the time to see who she's talking to. I said I didn't WANT to have to watch her at all. I said I'd rather trust her to not talk with other guys like that.

She really didn't respond to anything. We mostly sat in awkward silence for 5-10+ minutes at a time between my comments. I kept asking her if she wanted to say anything and she just shook her head no. I asked her "are you happy with our relationship?" and she responded "no." I said I just wanted her to be happy. She said she wanted me to be more affectionate (like she said last time we talked, and I've only been okay at that since then). I told her the reason I've been distant lately is because of the trust issue. We sat in silence for a while longer.

I finally said "I don't know if things can ever go back to how they were." and then I said something like I don't know if I can be in a relationship with her anymore. She covered her face and started crying. She cried for a bit and then went upstairs.

I followed her into the bedroom and she was bawling pretty hard. I left the room and came back a few minutes later and sat on the bed with her. This was the first time that I started to get upset. I guess I still do care, because seeing her so upset really bothered me. We just kinda laid there for a long time. I asked her what she wanted and she just shrugged. I kinda just held her there for a while. She tried to get to where she could kiss me and I just turned away. We laid there for a while and then I left the bedroom. She then went downstairs with her pillow and alarm clock.

I also went downstairs and said she could sleep upstairs if she wanted, but she said "after what you said, I should just sleep down here." I sat down there for a bit and then said "good night" and came upstairs. Now I'm posting here.

So it went a little different than I thought. I thought she'd be royally pissed and angry. She wasn't, she was just sad and hurt. I did pretty well overall, keeping my composure. I just hate seeing her so upset. Maybe cuz I'm a nice guy or something?

I don't think we're broken up, but I don't think we're exactly together either. We're somewhere in-between. She gets back from school tomorrow around 2:30 and works at 5. I'm off tomorrow. Thursday morning I work and she has a school meeting that night til like 9. So this will give us some time apart to think about what we're going to do.

I almost feel like she's the kind of person who digs herself into a rut and won't get herself out, even if it's bad (though this is nowhere near as bad as it was with her ex). I think I'm trying to get out because I'm looking for something else. I don't know what...but something else.

We may end up staying together, I honestly don't know right now. But if I do stay with her, that's more or less saying what she did with the text messaging is acceptable, which it's not to me. Severing the tie is gonna be the toughest thing if we do breakup.

It's almost 3 AM now and I'm gonna have trouble sleeping tonight. On the one hand I'm sad about how things look like they're going to turn out. On another hand, I'm able to sing along with the music I'm listening to. Am I suppressing how I feel? Quite possibly. Though the toughest part of the night was laying there with her, thinking this could be the last time I hold her in my arms...and that was tough. But sometimes things hurt and you have to move on. I'm a worrier, so I'm always afraid that I'm going to make the wrong decision (whether that's staying with her or breaking up).

I know I set her up for a pretty good slam on this board, but what she did just wasn't right.

I appreciate anyone's advice and stuff in this thread. I haven't felt like this in 8 years (when I broke up with my only other serious girlfriend). I'll keep you guys posted as to what happens.

Hope I can sleep soon...

-Ben

Man, I don't see were you thought everyone was putting it all on the girl. My thoughts were that YOU violated her trust by sneaking onto her cell phone and reading her messages and numbers. Now you continue to do it. How is she supposed to trust you if you don't respect her privacy? You seem to be missing that point. That's why you can't back. No matter what you do, you'll never have that trust back.

Edit: Not that she seems like she's worthy of trust anyway. Basically you both aren't behaving like you are.

[Noble_Platypus]

Man, I don't see were you thought everyone was putting it all on the girl. My thoughts were that YOU violated her trust by sneaking onto her cell phone and reading her messages and numbers. Now you continue to do it. How is she supposed to trust you if you don't respect her privacy? You seem to be missing that point. That's why you can't back. No matter what you do, you'll never have that trust back.

I dont think he snooped just to do it. She gave him good reason to be concerned and look into it further. If you have good reason to think your spouse is cheating on you and hire a P.I. that isnt you snooping. If he read her text messages just to do it or because he is a control freak it would be one thing, be he had good reason to check things out. What was he supposed to do, turn a blind eye at all of the evidence unil the day he walked in on them or she broke it off with him?

[stevew]

Hell, I wouldn't be suprised if he is the main holder of the cell-phone plan, so technically her phone is his phone too.

[Doug5984]

I was in a very similar situation recently...a long story short, I caught her- cried to lure me back in...after a month of having no trust for her what so ever we ended it, and I returned her birthday presents (it was coming up the next week) and bought a 42 HDTV just in time for football season....and I've never been happier.


What you need to do: 1) End the relationship, I know first hand not being able to trust someone will rip you apart inside and it sucks. 2) Buy a big ass TV 3) Enjoy life.

[Desnudo]

I dont think he snooped just to do it. She gave him good reason to be concerned and look into it further. If you have good reason to think your spouse is cheating on you and hire a P.I. that isnt you snooping. If he read her text messages just to do it or because he is a control freak it would be one thing, be he had good reason to check things out. What was he supposed to do, turn a blind eye at all of the evidence unil the day he walked in on them or she broke it off with him?

I believe two wrongs don't make a right, and snooping on someone is wrong. If you are suspicious of something, you either believe them or you don't. Getting a PI is admitting that you don't, as is checking someone's cell phone. If you got a PI to spy on your wife and she wasn't cheating, you think the relationship goes back to hunky dory? You just took an action that explicitly says you don't trust her.

[dbd1963]

Man, I don't see were you thought everyone was putting it all on the girl. My thoughts were that YOU violated her trust by sneaking onto her cell phone and reading her messages and numbers. Now you continue to do it. How is she supposed to trust you if you don't respect her privacy? You seem to be missing that point. That's why you can't back. No matter what you do, you'll never have that trust back.

Edit: Not that she seems like she's worthy of trust anyway. Basically you both aren't behaving like you are.

I don't think you are right on this one. If he doesn't look for evidence, he doesn't catch her. She switched the name for the guy to a girl's name -- that tells you all you need to know.

He had good reason to believe she was up to something and would have been a fool not to check it out.

You may think I'm just popping off where I don't really know, but that is not the case. I wound up with a girl who was actually an alcholic, drug addict, and a criminal. She hid it from me, of course. What else would she do? But I was of a naturally trusting nature. That is exactly what she was counting on. I'm lucky I was as much a goody goody as I was naive, or I'd have wound up in jail. She did. I learned a thing or two about people who want to deceive you.

You're asking King to trust himself and his assumptions without looking for evidence, but the world is full of people who trust themselves and their assumptions without quesiton, and they turn out to be wrong. It's human nature to second guess yourself, and it's a good thing. The only prudent thing to do for him to do was check on it.

The world constantly gives us opportunities to realize that it does not align with our beliefs about it.

You know what? My wife and I both have cell phones, but neither of us thinks one can't look at the other's phone. It's not something we do, either, but before this post I wouldn't have thought a thing about looking at hers or her looking at mine. Why should we?

[kingnebwsu]

I admit that me looking at her cell phone was a violation of privacy. And for that I was wrong. But I never looked at her cell phone (in 2+ years) until she started text messaging this guy all the time. What I did was wrong, yes. But because of the kind of person I am...I guess I felt like I *had* to do it. If that makes any sense.

Two wrongs don't make a right. But I am glad I did look so I could have more information available about the situation I'm in.

She hasn't actually physically cheated on me (that I know of). But I feel like this is an emotional betrayal, which is almost just as bad.

I really appreciate all the support and stuff, because I *REALLY* need it right now.

When I look back at my previous relationship (girlfriend in high school&the year after), I look back on it with some regret. I regret that her family and her moved away to Arkansas and that I wasn't able to end it on my terms. The last 6 months or so of that relationship were okay (not as bad as what I'm in now...I was just bored and sick of her overprotective parents...but that's another rant for another day). But there have been times over the last several years where I think about her and how's she doing and stuff. I know she graduated from college and got engaged less than a year after we broke up...but I digress.

Anyway, I never pegged my current girlfriend as a manipulative type of person, but the more I look and examine things, the more I think she is. Which makes me kick myself, because after seeing what happened when my parents got divorced (aka mom got everything she wanted and dad just took it), I told myself I'd never be in the same situation. And here I am.

I'll keep you guys posted. Hell, if we end up breaking up then my post count on here may double in the next few months.

Not that it matters, but this is the best time of year for a breakup. It's football season (I love college&NFL), and college hoops season is coming up (which I love) and 4 awesome games (Jim's included) are coming out in the next 5 weeks. So I'll have plenty to be entertained.

Is it weird that I've been thinking about buying an HDTV the last week or so, since this whole thing started? ;)

Thanks again guys (& gals).

-Ben

[st.cronin]

I'll keep you guys posted. Hell, if we end up breaking up then my post count on here may double in the next few months.


That's the important thing, of course.

[Noble_Platypus]

I believe two wrongs don't make a right, and snooping on someone is wrong. If you are suspicious of something, you either believe them or you don't. Getting a PI is admitting that you don't, as is checking someone's cell phone. If you got a PI to spy on your wife and she wasn't cheating, you think the relationship goes back to hunky dory? You just took an action that explicitly says you don't trust her.

He didnt trust her because ahe made no attempt to hide the fact she was text messaging a guy an unacceptable number of times. You must live by the ignorance is bliss motto. By your definition of either believing her or not, he either has to split up with her without proof, or stay in a relationship where there is a good possibility she is cheating. What would it take for you to explore whats going on? Do you always accept someones word for whats going on, especially when they have a track record of doing that kind of thing before? If he comes home and it sounds like she is having sex with someone in the bedroom should he ask her through the door is she is banging someone and when she says no just shrug his shoulders and go watch TV? Because if he opened the door it would be his being untrusting and snooping for not believing her.
As I said, if he looked in her phone just to be nosey or whatever I would think thats wrong, but she was acting suspicious and he had good reason to think she was lying to him. He had already busted her lying everytime she promised to not text the guy again and then the next day she is sending/receiving texts from the guy. To not investigate whats really going on makes you a sucker and a doormat.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

She hasn't actually physically cheated on me (that I know of). But I feel like this is an emotional betrayal, which is almost just as bad.

You can be sure that this is a lot more than a long-term text messaging relationship. You're fooling yourself if you think this is just an exchanging notes kind of thing.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

1) Tomorrow dump her completely. As in, kick her out for good.

2) Like DC said, the crying is just a con. Women, or "girl" in this case, can do it on a whim. She's only upset she got caught and might lose her place to stay. Do. Not. Fall. For. This. I can't stress that enough. Females will try everything to con: crying, getting angry and turning things around to make you feel guilty, trying to have sex with you (the trying to kiss you part).

3) If you are not broken up but not together, that means she can no longer feel guilty about the other guy nailing her. She now has a roof over her head with no committment. Basically she wins.

4) Don't stay in the relationship to hope you can change her. 100% of relationships fail when one person thinks they can fix the broken one. People like her can't be fixed.

5) She's lied to you more times than you could probably count. Which means she'll continue to lie to you until you stop letting her.

Precisely. The only reason Ben can't see what is going on like the rest of us can is that he's the one that is actually involved in the situation. Only he can take the step of actually making the right decision of breaking off this relationship. Everthing she said and did in this talk reeks of big time problems.

It's not your fault and you're still in a good position to move on (i.e. no kids, no divorce). Move on, Ben.

[kingnebwsu]

Ya know, I wonder if they have cyber/virtual sex or whatever the hell it's called. They've spoken on ventrilo before multiple times. I know she's been chatting with him on there for...3-6 months maybe? I can't be sure of the exact timeline. Anyway, one night it was about an hour after I went to bed, but I couldn't sleep so I came downstairs to see her. She was playing WoW and she kinda freaked out when she saw me. We have f'in loud steps, but she was immersed in her game (or whatever) and apparently didn't hear me. I mean, our steps are CRAZY loud. Then she went to the kitchen to was her hands and came back out and sat with me. This was before I got really upset about the text-messaging thing. I wish I had paid more attention.

I'm actually pretty okay with things right now, she just got home from school and it was weird. I asked her how school was, and she said she didn't go to her classes today. She did come home earlier than she should have. I think she's really playing the self-pity card. Like, if I look really sad then he'll feel bad (which I do) and forgive me and take me back (haven't yet...here's to hoping I stay strong). It's worked several times before, but not this time (yet).

I think I'm okay with how I feel right now as long as she's still in the house. It's one thing to think about breaking up when she's still here and I could stop the imminent break-up. But how will I do if/when she leaves the house? That's gonna be the true test.

The one thing I don't think I've mentioned yet is that we got a cat about 3 months ago. I've really grown to love the damn thing and losing it would be the toughest thing of all (we agreed when we got her that in the event of a breakup, she would get it). I'll try and bargain it back, but I don't think it will work. I got upset last night when I took the cat upstairs with me and I was petting it. It's my first pet since I've been on my own, but we had 1-4 cats for the second half of my childhood. I could always get another cat, but this cat is pretty special. I guess to make the break totally clean, she has to take the cat, too. That can't be a factor right now though. I can't even imagine how emotional people feel when they're having a custody battle over their KIDS and I feel this way about a cat. Wow. Never really understood that until now, how strong people must love their kids.

One other thing, what I keyed on in the talk last night, was "I don't think things can go back to how they were." That was my wussy way of trying to make it clear how serious of a talk we were having, without actually breaking up. I get the vibe from her that she thinks it will blow over. But I don't think I can let this go.

Oh yeah, the guy who she's been chatting with, lives several states away. So I don't think they've met in person yet, because she hasn't taken any trips or anything lately.

She works in 2.6 hours and I should get ready and go out to lunch. Alone.

If I were you guys, I bet I'd be saying the same thing (and I have to friends in other bad situations). But pulling the trigger when it's *your* relationship is a tough thing to do. Now I see how my friend (to whom I gave the advice) struggled so much to end the crappy relationship he was in. The only people affected by the imminent breakup are me and her. I'll be the one who'll be sleeping alone at night. I'll be the one who'll come home to a house with no girlfriend and no kitty. I'll be the one who will be the third wheel when I go out with my married neighbors. And I *will* be single for a long time. Partly because it'll be what I want, and partly because of how infrequently I'm on the lookout. But I can't let that be the decision behind what happens.

I'll keep everyone posted (again).

[Joe Canadian]

She cheated on her boyfriend to hookup with me back in '04

This should have been a red flag from the start... if someone is okay with cheating once, they are very likely to do it again.

[Izulde]

and 4 awesome games (Jim's included) are coming out in the next 5 weeks.

Did I miss something?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'll be the one who will be the third wheel when I go out with my married neighbors. And I *will* be single for a long time. Partly because it'll be what I want, and partly because of how infrequently I'm on the lookout. But I can't let that be the decision behind what happens.

You're the only one that thinks you're a third wheel. If people didn't want to hang out with you, simply put, they wouldn't invite you. Give your friends more credit than that. I have a few friends who go out with my wife and I. I don't look down on them because they're single in any way. Also, better to be known as 'third wheel' than 'our friend that refuses to leave the girl that's actively cheating on him'.

[timmae]

dude... you deserve to be in a relationship that you don't even think of not trusting the other person 100%. You've been together long enough where the trust issue shouldn't even be an issue. I hate to say it but you will never, ever trust this girl again. Not like you should anyways but... The absolute best thing to do is to end the relationship and wish her well. It's best not only for you but for her as well. I know you still care about her but let her go. You will find someone that you can trust wholeheartedly and that person will trust you right back.

[dawgfan]

I know it's much easier to say this when you're an outside observer, but it's also because we're coming from an objective viewpoint unclouded by emotion.

The relationship is over - the longer you postpone severing ties, the longer it will be before you can find a healthy relationship and the harder it will be to make the break. Yes, it will be hard, yes she'll get upset and cry a lot and tug at your heartstrings, yes you'll feel lonely afterwards and wonder if you made the right decision. But it's the correct move, and the sooner, the better.

[bulletsponge]

DITCH THE B*TCH



i hope you read this message

[Coffee Warlord]

DITCH THE B*TCH



i hope you read this message

And if he doesn't I hope he reads this one.

[kingnebwsu]

I just got home from lunch and then I went to my dad's to talk for a while. She's at work right now and there's a note from her here, I'll type out what it says:

"I just want you to know that I am sorry. I'm sure that even that is hard to believe. I'm so afraid to talk to you because I might make things worse or that you will finally tell me that you can't forgive me. And it's really hard not to talk to you because it seems like you are the only person I really have anymore. Even though you are the reason I feel so awful, I want to turn to you for comfort. It's even worse because you don't seem angry or sad, you just seem like you don't care. I think you do care, but you have a lot of thinking to do. I am more than willing to wait for you to decide because you are worth it. I may not have acted like it, but I know I have been stupid. If you can't stand to have me around and ruin your time off I will go to my mom's. And I don't want you to stay with me if you don't think you can love me anymore. That is what would make me unhappy. I just want you to know that I am sorry and that if me being gone is going to make you happy then that's what I'll do. I love you."

So yeah, pretty wild stuff. This thread is like a soap opera, eh? ;)

My time off is Sat. and Sun. and she's closing both of those nights. Then I have a week off of work in a month, but this will obviously have to be resolved by then.

I feel the guilt for making her hurt so much, but she also hurt me pretty bad too. It's like, I may be able to forgive her in time...but will I be able to trust her again? I don't think that I will be able to, so that should be reason enough to move on. I just gotta have *that* talk with her. Making my decision final. I don't know when I should do that, because the day I do will be ruined. Aka probably shouldn't be a day where I work (Thu/Fri). I also could go to Columbus on Saturday to visit a buddy of mine (if he doesn't have any plans), or I could stay at my dad's or a buddy's here in town. Or she could stay at her mom's. I can't think about legalities or whatever right now, I just gotta focus on what I wanna do that will make me happy.

Sorry if I'm pissing people off, if it seems like I'm spinning my wheels, but this is a tough thing to go through.

It's like, if she's so sorry, why did she even talk to the guy again? She could have prevented the imminent breakup if she could have just severed ties with him. But she didn't, and now I need to make the decision...because she isn't going to make it.

Oh well, she's gone tonight and I'm gonna hang with a buddy of mine and play games. Hopefully keep my mind off of this for at least a few hours.

[kingnebwsu]

DITCH THE B*TCH



i hope you read this message

I did, thanks. LOL ;)

[bulletsponge]

I did, thanks. LOL ;)

good. dont let her make you feel guilty for her behavior

[dawgfan]

She's playing your heartstrings. I really think the best thing for you to do is give this relationship some distance - she should move out and you should not talk to her for a while. You need to get some perspective on this relationship, and right now you're way too close to it to look at things objectively.

Additionally, having her move out and you guys not talking for a while will also force her to really think about her actions and realize there are consequences to what she does.

If she hadn't cheated on a boyfriend to go out with you, I'd be more inclined to think you might be able to work through this, but given that fact and the fact you've indicated you haven't been very happy in the relationship for a while, on top of all the current trust issues, makes me think you really need a clean break. Maybe down the road you guys could get back together, but right now you need to make an emotional and physical break with her in order to be able to evaluate things objectively. Dating other people will also help tremendously in helping you sort out your feelings and figure out what you really want.

Good luck - I know this isn't easy.

[Mota]

I went through a very similar situation several years ago. Was married at the time. Got my wife into Diablo 2, and she met some dude online. And after a while they started talking via email and then on the phone. I ended up hacking into her email (she didn't realize that after you deleted your emails that it went into another directory that could be opened), and found her saying a lot of things that married people should not say.

I ended up emailing the guy and telling him to back off. Of course it backfired on me, somehow she made herself out to be the victim. So we broke up. In a really awkward way, we owned a house so had to live together for 3 months before we could afford to sell the house and live seperately.

In the end she never ended up meeting the guy, but it exposed the relationship for what it was ... not enough.

You may be worried about being lonely, but that's really the least of your worries. Lonely is short term. Being locked into a relationship with someone who you don't trust will last forever (or at least as long as you're with her).

There's certain places a relationship can't go, and still survive. Infidelity (whether physical or not) is one of them. The fact that she changed his name in her phone to a girl is proof that she knew she was doing something wrong, but still did it anyways. You can forgive her now, but that just means that you're authorizing the behavior and that you'll catch her banging one of her office buddies one day.

Here's my suggestion ... bang her one more time, and then come to the conclusion that your long term happiness is far more important than your fear of being alone. I'm not gonna say it will be easy, there's plenty of rough nights ahead. But better for it to happen now before you're married and have kids.

FYI, after going through some rough times on my own, I ended up starting to date again, dated lots and lots of women (awesome time), got remarried and now have a 2 year old boy who is just great. I'm a LOT happier than I would ever have been in my first marriage. I know that right now all you can see is the doom and gloom (as did I), but just remember that you will not be ALONE, you will be FREE. It's a huge difference, and if you try to think of it in that way it'll go a long way to get you through this.

p.s. don't forget to bang her one last time though

[Craptacular]

And I *will* be single for a long time. Partly because it'll be what I want, and partly because of how infrequently I'm on the lookout.


Last time I said that, I was 25, and basically fed up with being "on the lookout". Nine months later, I was engaged. Now I'm married, with a house, two dogs, and twin boys on the way. Things often have a funny way of working out. You may find what you're looking for when you stop looking.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Change the locks and tape that note over the new lock. Pack all her stuff and drop it on her mother's doorstep.

[Rizon]

Ya know, I wonder if they have cyber/virtual sex or whatever the hell it's called. They've spoken on ventrilo before multiple times. I know she's been chatting with him on there for...3-6 months maybe?

after I went to bed, but I couldn't sleep so I came downstairs to see her.
She was playing WoW and she kinda freaked out when she saw me. Then she went to the kitchen to wash her hands

I wonder :D (but then again I'm perverted)

[Rizon]

"I just want you to know that I am sorry. I'm sure that even that is hard to believe. I'm so afraid to talk to you because I might make things worse or that you will finally tell me that you can't forgive me. And it's really hard not to talk to you because it seems like you are the only person I really have anymore. Even though you are the reason I feel so awful, I want to turn to you for comfort. It's even worse because you don't seem angry or sad, you just seem like you don't care. I think you do care, but you have a lot of thinking to do. I am more than willing to wait for you to decide because you are worth it. I may not have acted like it, but I know I have been stupid. If you can't stand to have me around and ruin your time off I will go to my mom's. And I don't want you to stay with me if you don't think you can love me anymore. That is what would make me unhappy. I just want you to know that I am sorry and that if me being gone is going to make you happy then that's what I'll do. I love you."

Do all women have this speach typed up or something? Because not only have I heard it before myself, but I've heard it from friends who heard it from their women. Word for word. The entire thing she just said is utter bullshit. Nice way of her turning it around, though.

[Rizon]

Sorry to be so mean about this, but BROS BEFORE HOES dawg.

PS: And bang her one last time like that one guy said. And post pics here thx.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Go with the physical break and send her to her mom's with all her stuff. Then take a week or two to make the final decision. This way you'll be objectively sure, and when you give her the news she will already be out of your place and thus avoid the awkwardness and hissy fit.

[kingnebwsu]

So it's 9 AM on Thursday morning and I have to go to an all-day work meeting (ugh). I didn't fall asleep til well after 4 AM last night, because we had half of "the talk."

I was gonna put it off, cuz it was 1:30 AM and I was tired, but she gave me the look like I need to tell her what's up. So I pretty much repeated what I said to her before. I don't know if I can ever trust her again, blah blah blah. I don't know how things can ever go back blah blah blah. She was bawling pretty hardcore, moreso than Tuesday night. She was saying "please don't do this...I need you...I can't do this...I'll do whatever it takes...I'll wait however long..." and I told her that if we breakup that she can do it, and that she will make it.

She has a big midterm today, and she didn't study at all last night.

I feel real guilty about doing this while she's in school and it will distract her from her studies. She sounded like she was ready to give up on the whole looking for an internship thing (though I know she's just really hurt now). Her crying tonight was more of the "I'm in pain and he's really gonna dump me" crying as opposed to the night before where it was "I got caught and I hope he forgives me."

I didn't officially break it off last night. I'm just trying to think things through and make the right decision. It's like, I have you guys in one ear screaming "BREAK UP!!!" and I have my brain pretty much agreeing with what you say...but then my damn heart gets in the way and it really clouds my judgement.

My mantra of last night, "how can things ever go back?" I just don't think that they can. It's sad, because even my brain really wants things to work out and for us to be happy again. She did actually text message the guy saying she can't talk with him anymore and that she's sorry (2 weeks too late...argh). She said she also canceled WoW. It's like, YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS TWO WEEKS AGO!!! I mean, if I didn't "catch" her, then she'd still be texting this guy.

I dunno, I feel like it's my fault (cleche self-guilt coming) because I don't think I've done a very good job of communicating with her lately. Usually because I don't wanna hear about work (since we work for the same company). And I introduced her to Warcraft. I feel like I could have done some things differently so we wouldn't be at this point. But I think her mistakes are much bigger than mine.

I gotta go because I gotta prepare a speech I'm giving at the meeting today (argh). It's like, how the hell am I gonna sit through a meeting when I'm feeling like this? I'm exhausted, both mentally and physically, and I don't wanna sit through an 8 hour meeting.

I'll be back on tonight. Any more comments of support/"get the hell out of it dude!" are appreciated :)

[bulletsponge]

dont fall for the crying bit! Ditch her now!

[bulletsponge]

DITCH THE B*TCH



i hope you read this message

dont make me repeat myself

[molson]

If you would have dumped her days ago, you wouldn't have had to go through the most recent "talk", and you'd already be on the road to recovery. The longer you wait, not only does this pointless relationship drag on longer, but the recovery will be longer (because the more "talks" you have, the more you'll have to recover from).

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm with Rizon about the note. That damned thing must have been in all the chick magazines or something, because it's everywhere.

And your own words tell the tale here
I mean, if I didn't "catch" her, then she'd still be texting this guy.

What part of "You're a serious dumbass if you don't put her in the road" have you not figured out? She ain't sorry, she's just sorry she got caught.
Please tell me you speak English. Do you speaka any English? DO-YOU-UNDERSTAND-THE-WORDS-THAT-ARE-COMING-OUT-OF-MY-MOUTH?

The only further contact you should be having with this girl at this point is with your foot on her ass as it pushes her out the front door.

[st.cronin]

Yeah, the only "talk" you need to have is this one where you tell her to stop talking to you and move on with her life.

[Subby]

She's at work right now and there's a note from her here, I'll type out what it says:

"I just want you to know that I am sorry. I'm sure that even that is hard to believe. I'm so afraid to talk to you because I might make things worse or that you will finally tell me that you can't forgive me. And it's really hard not to talk to you because it seems like you are the only person I really have anymore. Even though you are the reason I feel so awful, I want to turn to you for comfort. It's even worse because you don't seem angry or sad, you just seem like you don't care. I think you do care, but you have a lot of thinking to do. I am more than willing to wait for you to decide because you are worth it. I may not have acted like it, but I know I have been stupid. If you can't stand to have me around and ruin your time off I will go to my mom's. And I don't want you to stay with me if you don't think you can love me anymore. That is what would make me unhappy. I just want you to know that I am sorry and that if me being gone is going to make you happy then that's what I'll do. I love you."
I'm sure you aren't really a weasel, but you should be completely fucking embarrassed for posting that. Talk about betraying trust. Try looking in the fucking mirror, for chrissakes.

[Izulde]

This bridge got burnt a long time ago my friend and all that's left beneath it is the river.

Don't drown yourself.

[dbd1963]

Perhaps there are more things that the two of you have to learn together.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

OK, King. This is seriously starting to become your fault. The longer you drag this on, the bigger of a mess and the more painful it will be for everyone involved.

Say it with me.....

"Sorry, but this relationship is over. I'll give you a few days to get your stuff together and move out."

Any other talk is simply wasting time for both of you.

[Noble_Platypus]

Seriously, I have been in a very similer situation and I know how your feelings can cause you to hesitate or do something that you know isnt best/right for you, but you not breaking up with her when you admit that you know you should and that things cant go back to the way they were is no different than her knowing she shouldnt text that dude anymore and continueing to do so.

[Izulde]

And honestly man, even if she has ditched this one, someone else is gonna come along again sooner or later and you'll be going through this exact same thing agian if you're still in the relationship

[JediKooter]

This relationship is over. What is happening to you is not some weird random event that has only happened to a few unsuspecting souls. The reason why so many have chimed in, is because, that's how often it happens. So I say, take everyones advice and get her out of there, the sooner the better.

Once she is out, don't call her, don't email her, don't even say hi to her if you see her on the street.

The only thing you owe her is a one way ticket to get the fuck out.

[Desnudo]

He didnt trust her because ahe made no attempt to hide the fact she was text messaging a guy an unacceptable number of times. You must live by the ignorance is bliss motto. By your definition of either believing her or not, he either has to split up with her without proof, or stay in a relationship where there is a good possibility she is cheating. What would it take for you to explore whats going on? Do you always accept someones word for whats going on, especially when they have a track record of doing that kind of thing before? If he comes home and it sounds like she is having sex with someone in the bedroom should he ask her through the door is she is banging someone and when she says no just shrug his shoulders and go watch TV? Because if he opened the door it would be his being untrusting and snooping for not believing her.
As I said, if he looked in her phone just to be nosey or whatever I would think thats wrong, but she was acting suspicious and he had good reason to think she was lying to him. He had already busted her lying everytime she promised to not text the guy again and then the next day she is sending/receiving texts from the guy. To not investigate whats really going on makes you a sucker and a doormat.

I would have a frank discussion with her, believe her or not, and then make a decision. I do take people at their word, especially someone that I'm in a relationship with. Of course, I don't screw other boyfriend's girlfriends either.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I would have a frank discussion with her, believe her or not, and then make a decision. I do take people at their word, especially someone that I'm in a relationship with. Of course, I don't screw other boyfriend's girlfriends either.

That discussion has already been done. She admitted that she was texting the guy and even said she wouldn't text him anymore and cancelled her WOW subscription. That's all nice, but she can't blame the previous time she cheated on a guy on WOW or anything else. The time for discussion should have been over long ago.

[Desnudo]

I was responding to a side discussion Platypus and I were having. I think the whole thing is a mess at this point and there's nothing left to talk about.

[Oilers9911]

That discussion has already been done. She admitted that she was texting the guy and even said she wouldn't text him anymore and cancelled her WOW subscription. That's all nice, but she can't blame the previous time she cheated on a guy on WOW or anything else. The time for discussion should have been over long ago.

Yeah but don't forget WHO she cheated on her last bf with. I sympathize with Ben on this but he is far from innocent.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, no offense to Ben, but this thread has been surprisingly light on the just criticism and "you get what you deserve" type comments I somewhat expected considering the origins of this relationship.

[dawgfan]

I'll reiterate - you really need to make the break ASAP, and you need to make it a complete break: Don't be tempted or guilted into keeping in touch all the time; you need to not be actively involved with her in any way. If you do, you'll be in danger of letting your emotions get played upon and you'll just delay the inevitable, which is splitting up with her completely.

[st.cronin]

Is it merely coincidence that the fake first name was "Ashley?" Why does that name figure so prominently in these types of threads?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Where is JimmyWint to tell us how his wife would handle this?

[Izulde]

Is it merely coincidence that the fake first name was "Ashley?" Why does that name figure so prominently in these types of threads?

I would assume a subconscious association with the word Ash as signifier of death to the point of no return, i.e. everything turned to ashes.

It is essentially what the state of these relationships is.

[Noble_Platypus]

I would have a frank discussion with her, believe her or not, and then make a decision. I do take people at their word, especially someone that I'm in a relationship with. Of course, I don't screw other boyfriend's girlfriends either.

What would you do if all evidence pointed to your sanctimonious ass being cheated on but she simply says "no" to the question? Just go on being naive and possibly cheated on without doing anything else to find out? How could having a frank discussion do anything unless she admits it? If you broke up with her after she says nothing is going on you do so without evidence.
I am in no way defending what he did. He should have never tried to make it work with a cheater, much less been surprised when it happened to him. I just cant fault him for investigating past her saying nothing is going on when in fact she was lying.

[st.cronin]

I would assume a subconscious association with the word Ash as signifier of death to the point of no return, i.e. everything turned to ashes.

It is essentially what the state of these relationships is.

ROFL

[Rizon]

So it's 9 AM on Thursday morning and I have to go to an all-day work meeting (ugh). I didn't fall asleep til well after 4 AM last night, because we had half of "the talk."

I was gonna put it off, cuz it was 1:30 AM and I was tired, but she gave me the look like I need to tell her what's up. So I pretty much repeated what I said to her before. I don't know if I can ever trust her again, blah blah blah. I don't know how things can ever go back blah blah blah. She was bawling pretty hardcore, moreso than Tuesday night. She was saying "please don't do this...I need you...I can't do this...I'll do whatever it takes...I'll wait however long..." and I told her that if we breakup that she can do it, and that she will make it.

She has a big midterm today, and she didn't study at all last night.

I feel real guilty about doing this while she's in school and it will distract her from her studies. She sounded like she was ready to give up on the whole looking for an internship thing (though I know she's just really hurt now). Her crying tonight was more of the "I'm in pain and he's really gonna dump me" crying as opposed to the night before where it was "I got caught and I hope he forgives me."

I didn't officially break it off last night. I'm just trying to think things through and make the right decision. It's like, I have you guys in one ear screaming "BREAK UP!!!" and I have my brain pretty much agreeing with what you say...but then my damn heart gets in the way and it really clouds my judgement.

My mantra of last night, "how can things ever go back?" I just don't think that they can. It's sad, because even my brain really wants things to work out and for us to be happy again. She did actually text message the guy saying she can't talk with him anymore and that she's sorry (2 weeks too late...argh). She said she also canceled WoW. It's like, YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS TWO WEEKS AGO!!! I mean, if I didn't "catch" her, then she'd still be texting this guy.

I dunno, I feel like it's my fault (cleche self-guilt coming) because I don't think I've done a very good job of communicating with her lately. Usually because I don't wanna hear about work (since we work for the same company). And I introduced her to Warcraft. I feel like I could have done some things differently so we wouldn't be at this point. But I think her mistakes are much bigger than mine.

I gotta go because I gotta prepare a speech I'm giving at the meeting today (argh). It's like, how the hell am I gonna sit through a meeting when I'm feeling like this? I'm exhausted, both mentally and physically, and I don't wanna sit through an 8 hour meeting.

I'll be back on tonight. Any more comments of support/"get the hell out of it dude!" are appreciated :)


http://home.comcast.net/~rizon1976/Droidz.jpg

[Logan]

http://home.comcast.net/~rizon1976/Droidz.jpg

Can you translate from "geek" into "English" please?

P.S. Unless my eyes are deceiving me, you're implying that his chick has a beard. That I approve of...

[sabotai]

Can you translate from "geek" into "English" please?

You don't need to see his identification...

"We don't need to see his identification."

These aren't the droids you're looking for.

"These aren't the droids we're looking for."




The Jedi Mind trick, he's saying the girl is using the Jedi Mind trick on him.

[Buccaneer]

Good god, it was bad enough hearing Izulde whine with his Star Wars poster, now we get Star Wars lego???

[Logan]

You don't need to see his identification...

"We don't need to see his identification."

These aren't the droids you're looking for.

"These aren't the droids we're looking for."

The Jedi Mind trick, he's saying the girl is using the Jedi Mind trick on him.

I see. Should've went with Spaceballs or Silent Bob.

edit: You know what, no...I don't see. It's not the Jedi Mind trick. It's kingneb being a friggin moron. There, I said it.

[dawgfan]

Good god, it was bad enough hearing Izulde whine with his Star Wars poster, now we get Star Wars lego???
Can the mods just go ahead and re-title Bucc to "Grumpy Geezer" and get it over with...?

[Lorena]

The one thing I don't think I've mentioned yet is that we got a cat about 3 months ago. I've really grown to love the damn thing and losing it would be the toughest thing of all (we agreed when we got her that in the event of a breakup, she would get it). I'll try and bargain it back, but I don't think it will work. I got upset last night when I took the cat upstairs with me and I was petting it. It's my first pet since I've been on my own, but we had 1-4 cats for the second half of my childhood. I could always get another cat, but this cat is pretty special. I guess to make the break totally clean, she has to take the cat, too. That can't be a factor right now though. I can't even imagine how emotional people feel when they're having a custody battle over their KIDS and I feel this way about a cat. Wow. Never really understood that until now, how strong people must love their kids.

So you guys thought about what would happen to the cat IF you broke up? Who thinks of these things unless something isn't quite right with the relationship?

Ben, do it for your sake and sanity... end it as soon as you can. It seems you guys are clinging to each other unecessarily and in the end, it's gonna make it a hell of a lot tougher on both of you. Forgive my bluntness, but this half-ass talk is really making it worse; you're making BOTH of you miserable by beating around the bush.

There's a saying in Spanish: "Mejor solo que mal acompañado" and the exact translation is "better to be alone, than in bad company".

You're right, it is like a soap opera, one that I'm tuned into where I'm screaming at the monitor: "She's trying to give you a guilt trip for something she did, DON'T LET HER DO IT! JUST BREAK UP WITH HER!! DO IT... DO IT!!"

[Izulde]

Good god, it was bad enough hearing Izulde whine with his Star Wars poster, now we get Star Wars lego???

Whine? WTF are you on dude?

[Suburban Rhythm]

I'll be the one who'll be sleeping alone at night. I'll be the one who'll come home to a house with no girlfriend and no kitty.

I can't possibly be the only one seeing the joke potential here, can I? Did I miss the other posts? :eek:

[Chas in Cinti]

Ummm... OK... just to be the voice of argument. Maybe this whole blowout has really made her understand what she has? Like you said, the guy is several states away, so it's not like she met him or anything and reasonable people do unreasonable things. She's still young, had a bit of wanderlust and said/did some questionable things. That's not so crazy for a girl of 21. Basically, if YOU think it's still worth it, it sounds like you still have a bit of a foundation to work on. I just didnt want the only cheerleading your hearing to be for only one team. Sometimes the biggest fights/arguments/disagreements net the largest gain.

Regards,
Chas

[Buccaneer]

Whine? WTF are you on dude?

From a while back, that's all.

[Logan]

So you guys thought about what would happen to the cat IF you broke up? Who thinks of these things unless something isn't quite right with the relationship?

I keyed in on that too when I first read it, but forgot about when I went to post. That's a really, really, really big problem.

[Ksyrup]

Ummm... OK... just to be the voice of argument. Maybe this whole blowout has really made her understand what she has? Like you said, the guy is several states away, so it's not like she met him or anything and reasonable people do unreasonable things. She's still young, had a bit of wanderlust and said/did some questionable things. That's not so crazy for a girl of 21. Basically, if YOU think it's still worth it, it sounds like you still have a bit of a foundation to work on. I just didnt want the only cheerleading your hearing to be for only one team. Sometimes the biggest fights/arguments/disagreements net the largest gain.

Regards,
Chas

I'd be willing to go with that line of reasoning with two qualifiers:

1. She's already cheated on someone else; and

2. Even if he was so inclined, he should still break up with her, make her move out, and take a couple of years away from her to see if she matures, then revisit the relationship if both are willing.

But the existence of #1 pretty much obliterates the idea that #2 would work.

[Lorena]

I keyed in on that too when I first read it, but forgot about when I went to post. That's a really, really, really big problem.

Yeah that really stuck out at me. I don't think anyone goes into a relationship thinking, "okay, this is cool, but *when we break up*...".

I have a friend that woke her boyfriend up one morning and said, "c'mon, let's get married". A lot of us were like... WTF? And her response was, "well, if it doesn't work out, we'll just get a divorce." Huh?

BTW Ben, it's interesting to hear how bad you feel for your girlfriend and how your day transpires. I noticed that at the end of every post, you snap back into the realization that she emotionally betrayed you and all that. It's like, despite what happens during the day, in the end you KNOW and SEE what she's doing and snap back into it. C'mon, you know what to do. I can't stress this enough, it's better to be alone than in bad company. I mean you said it yourself:

I was much happier when I was single for 6 years. I do remember being lonely sometimes, but so much more $$$ and free time. Grass is always greener, eh?

Yes, the grass is always greener. There's someone out there for everyone, it's just a matter of when it happens, but I don't think this is it.

[wade moore]

I keyed in on that too when I first read it, but forgot about when I went to post. That's a really, really, really big problem.

Meh. I think this is beign overblown.

My fiance who I love very much and the idea that we would split up is COMPLETELY foreign to the both of us, have discussed this with our dogs. It can save a TON of issues if you discuss it beforehand, especially when you're unmarried, as there is not exactly a lot of good law around the issue.

[BrianD]

Meh. I think this is beign overblown.

My fiance who I love very much and the idea that we would split up is COMPLETELY foreign to the both of us, have discussed this with our dogs. It can save a TON of issues if you discuss it beforehand, especially when you're unmarried, as there is not exactly a lot of good law around the issue.

Wade, you have been speaking my thoughts way too much lately...

I also agree that deciding what to do with a cat if a breakup occurs is not such an odd thing. Getting a pet is a fairly serious emotional issue for all involved and for an unmaried couple, you always have to consider the possibility of things not working out. It just seems prudent to have this decision made before getting the pet. You hope that you never have to deal with the issue, but sometimes you do.

I'm also willing to cast less blame on Ben for the way the relationship started without more information. Sometimes people cheat because they are just cheaters, and sometimes they cheat because they have already checked out of the relationship and are trying to find someone better before actually breaking it off. Like many people were telling Ben to keep sleeping with this girl while looking for someone new. I don't think the two kinds of cheating are necessarily the same in what they predict for future behavior. They do, however, both suck for the person being cheated on.

[BrianD]

dola,

I forgot the main point of my post....dump the girl and get on with life...like immediately. When you are in the "right" relationship, none of this crap comes up. If you were the right person for her, she wouldn't have ever bothered with this other guy. She may be sorry about her actions now, but they are an indication of deeper problems from her side.

[condors]

just want to say break it off now, you have established you aren't going to be happy with this girl again, waiting any longer is only putting off both of your happiness.

[dawgfan]

I'd be willing to go with that line of reasoning with two qualifiers:

1. She's already cheated on someone else; and

2. Even if he was so inclined, he should still break up with her, make her move out, and take a couple of years away from her to see if she matures, then revisit the relationship if both are willing.

But the existence of #1 pretty much obliterates the idea that #2 would work.
I'm not sure I agree with this, for a couple of reasons:

1. Not all cheating is the same - I'm curious exactly what the context was;

2. She was 18 or 19 at the time that happened - lots of people do dumb things at that age that they don't repeat later in life

Now, I'm not saying he should stay with her - I agree she needs to move out and he needs to end it completely. But if, in a few years and after a lot of reflection and other experiences, they decide they want to try again, I'm not convinced it would be doomed. Just depends on how both parties have grown and changed in that time.

[Klinglerware]

Meh. I think this is beign overblown.

My fiance who I love very much and the idea that we would split up is COMPLETELY foreign to the both of us, have discussed this with our dogs.

So, what did the dogs say? :)

[wade moore]

So, what did the dogs say? :)


"Good god, don't leave us with him" :eek:

[BrianD]

So, what did the dogs say? :)

Woof?

[Klinglerware]

"Good god, don't leave us with him" :eek:

Brutal honesty, what a concept!

[Rizon]

Can you translate from "geek" into "English" please?

P.S. Unless my eyes are deceiving me, you're implying that his chick has a beard. That I approve of...

Move along and stop causing problems.