BEST BUY SUCKS!!!

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I am so mad I am shaking.

If anybody wants to buy any piece of electronic equipment, I would advise them to shop anywhere but Best Buy. If you do find something there at an unbelievable deal that you can't pass up, DO NOT PURCHASE AN EXTENDED WARRANTY!!!

Two years ago I bought a Panasonic DVD recorder with built in hard drive. It was a good deal because it was a floor model. The salesman told me what a great warranty I could purchase for $200. According to him, if the unit failed and they could not fix it they would replace it with a new model. I brought up that the new model cost twice as much as I was paying and he said that it didn't matter... they would give me the new model. I left without purchasing the warranty because I really couldn't afford it.

Four days later I called Best Buy and asked about the warranty again. The telephone associate once again told me it would be no problem with the exchange if the unit failed. I bought the warranty.

Now two years later I had a problem. I take the unit in for service. Two weeks later I recieve a call that my unit was not repairable and to come in for an exchange.

Unfortunatly, not only does Best Buy not carry the current comrarable model, they misrepresented the warranty. The best they can do for me is to give me the price paid for the unit ($329) in store credit. I can't believe this! I called Best Buy again and was told by an associate that because there was two years left on the warranty they would give me the remaining value back. It turns out that this was as poor of information as what led me to purchase it in the first place!

I recieved a package sent UPS today from Best Buy service. Was it my Panasonic, that I could simply use as a hard drive recorder minus the burner? Nope. It was the dvd that I had been trying to record to when it died.

The store manager offered me the opportunity to spend the $329 in store credit on a trade for a similar unit (that I would not purchase) After a great deal of negociating he offered to knock $50 off the price, so all it would cost me is an extra $130 to get a model I wouldn't have even looked at in the first place. I left the store and looked at the model online. The $50 he was nice enough to knock off the price was already marked off... it was on sale!

I talked to a friendly associate on the phone that offered to split the difference and send me a $65 gift card. When I asked to speak to a supervisor the supervisor was even less helpful than she was and kept talking about what they were doing for me... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! When I brought up the extra $65 gift card, he said I would have to purchase the model and send them the reciept to get that gift card!!!

So if I had not gave them $200 I wouldn't get $329 in store credit, but I would have the $200 (+ interest) I would have the Panasonic hard drive recorder with a dead burner, and I would get to spend that $200 toward a new Panasonic that costs nearly $500.

Now I get to spend all the money and I get a big old gift card. Whoop dee doo...


BEST BUY SUCKS!!!

[Raiders Army]

I agree. Best Buy sux.

[JonInMiddleGA]

As aggravated as I've been by Best Buy on a few occasions in the past, I have to say that what you describe isn't always the case.

I actually had them give me full credit (gift card for original purchase price) on a several year old laptop that was still under extended warranty. In other words, thanks to the warranty my wife essentially got the use of a laptop free for about three years.

Of course, in order to get it, I had to first endure BB losing the laptop completely. AFAIK, it's still floating around in their off-site service department somewhere.

[rowech]

Throw enough of a fit and it'll get taken care of. We had a problem with their installataion of a dishwasher and had to go through some unbelievable hassle. Eventually, we got a replacement dishwasher which was a better model at the same price and in addition got a $100 gift card for our hassle.

With that said...we'll never by anything else from Best Buy. We just purchased an HDTV and went to Circuit City instead.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Throw enough of a fit and it'll get taken care of.

I'd have to agree with this observation. I didn't have to throw a full-fledged fit either, I just had to make very clear my willingness to do so if I wasn't satisfied with their solution.

[stevew]

Sounds like poor service. At least they could have offered to refund you the price of what the unit cost new(which would have been 650?) in store credit, or let you pick up the replacement model. Keep causing a stink and talk about how you are not getting fair replacement cost for your player, and then threaten and file a bbb report on them. Store does millions of dollars, they could cut you a better deal if they want to/get pressured enough.

[rowech]

Another lesson I've learned is always threaten calling the BBB. If they're part of it, they'll be much quicker to look into the situation.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Who did you guys have to thow fits to/threaten to thow fits to?

I already have gone thru the store manager and their phone customer service. The idiot CS supervisor even kept asking me "Is there anything else I can help you with?" I kept telling him every time he would say that "BUT YOU HAVE NOT HELPED ME!"

I got an address to write to, but it seems that Best Buy is completely useless. I might just have to take the stupid credit on gift cards and give them as Christmas gifts.

[Barkeep49]

So I decided I was ready to buy an HD TV. Went into Best Buy, found a helpful sales person, decided to buy a real premium unit. Things were all good. Then the manager came as we begun to ring up the purchase and he tried to convince me to buy the extended warranty. I explained that I never buy the warranty. He decided to go with the hard sell and after a little bit of "discussion", I said let's look at the details of the extended warranty. I'm sure at that point he decided he had me hooked.

I then proceed to find the legalese language which contradicted many of the promises he was making (in terms of when they'd actually replace the model). The manager kept insisting I was misconstruing the whole thing. I turned down the warranty again. And again. And one more time. And then when he kept at it, I walked out, fed up with his hard sell. Went home, thought about it and decided that I would be happier hooking an antenna up to my computer than having an HD TV. I did that, I have been extremely happy and so I can honestly say that I saved several thousand dollars thanks to Best Buy's extended warranty program.

[stevew]

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?dest=9999999997&product_id=4978456&sourceid=0100000030660804302498

Print this out, walmart is selling that model for 424.54.
Instore it is the one he was trying to sell you for 500.

Make him price match that model for 424, and he should also refund you another 7.50 in the 10% guarantee match of the price difference.


Gets you that new player for a total cash outlay of around 90 bucks. Not the greatest ever, maybe you can even talk him into a split difference of 45 dollars even.

[Neuqua]

Ping: Sackattack

[Fidatelo]

I have yet to see an extended warranty that is worth purchasing.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?dest=9999999997&product_id=4978456&sourceid=0100000030660804302498

Print this out, walmart is selling that model for 424.54.
Instore it is the one he was trying to sell you for 500.

Make him price match that model for 424, and he should also refund you another 7.50 in the 10% guarantee match of the price difference.


Gets you that new player for a total cash outlay of around 90 bucks. Not the greatest ever, maybe you can even talk him into a split difference of 45 dollars even.

Except for the fact that I would never actually buy a DVD/VCR combo unit.

This is the current comparable model

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMR-EH55S-Recorder-Drive-Input/dp/B000F4CVE4/sr=8-1/qid=1160616939/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-2937345-6494561?ie=UTF8

[Bad-example]

Mongol General: We have won again. That is good! But what is best in life?
Mongol Warrior: The open steppe, fleet horse, falcon on your wrist, wind in your hair!
Mongol General: Wrong! Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush Best Buy, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
Mongol General: That is good.

[stevew]

Ah, damn, i didn't get that one when i searched the site.

[SackAttack]

Ping: Sackattack

My ears are burning.

The only warranties I deal with through Best Buy are those pertaining to the game systems, and I have never run into anybody in a huff over those.

On the other hand, my presentation is pretty straightforward. "Here's what we offer, and here's what it does. Here's why I recommend it, and what I've used it for personally."

Ball's in their court at that point. If they say 'no,' that's the end of it.

Maybe I'm unique in that; I hear complaints all the time over the handling of the computers/TV warranties. Could be because the warranties on those devices are so much more expensive than those for gaming, so the people behind those are pushing them that much harder.

Doesn't make it right, but not everybody at Best Buy is looking to give you the hard sell, either.

That's as far as I'll go in defense.

[Mantle2600]

I got a PS2 a year after it came out for 300 bucks at best buy and paid 30 bucks for the extended warranty or so. About two years later it died and I sent it in and got a 300 dollar best buy voucher, well the PS2 was now $179 so i got a new playstation, madden 2004 and hitman 2. So in that case it worked out.

[stevew]

On consoles, the warrantee is worthwhile, cause there is a very good chance of a significant price cut and it breaking in the meantime.

[thesloppy]

Write out your complaint in a very detailed letter (just a little less hostile than the above) and mass mail it to they're executive 'leadership team' (and every other best buy email address you can find). If you know the names of any of the people you dealt with in-store or on the phone you might include those in your email as well.

Poking around on they're website it looks like they use the standard [first name].[last name]@bestbuy.com convention for their email system, and looking at their 'our leaders' page I'd try these addresses:


[email protected] - vice chairman and ceo
[email protected] - executive vice president of human capital and leadership
[email protected] - president and coo
[email protected] - vice president cfo
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]


You might not get anybody to bite, and likely these emails are going to be filtered thorugh an assistant of some sort, but you also might be pleasantly surprised. If you can somehow find the executive responsible for customer satisfaction they will at the very least acknowledge your claim, and posibly put you in touch with someone who can help. Using this method I've achieved a couple results that would normally be deemed impossible, such as getting a full refund from a ticket reserved on priceline.

[nilodor]

If you're going to raise a fit, go raise it in the store. The end result will typically be you get a better deal than you can on the phone, or you wind up with mall security throwing you out on your keister. I've seen both, tried neither but at least its a start. The phone never really solves anything with stores, unless you're chasing around one a the sales clerks with a cordless phone.

[Router Help]

[email protected]


Richard Schulze is Best Buy's founder. I've met him a few times, and he seems like a pretty nice and reasonable guy. If he sees your email, you might get some results.

Also, http://www.bestbuysux.org/

[MizzouRah]

best buy is the shiszzle ny mizz.e

[stevew]

Hmm. they sell the 55 model in canada, but not the US.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10071880&catid=22494

I don't think they are going to go through the trouble of getting that from a canadian affiliate and then giving it to you for free.....as they will say it's a different company I'm sure.

[MizzouRah]

my wife is sleeping

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I will email the above people in a more reserved tone. :D

If I get no response, I will be forced to take the $329 on a gift card which I will give to my daughter as a combination B'day/Christmas gift (they are a week apart.) I will also ask to speak to the manager and apologize for my rudeness before, as I was unaware that as a store manager he had about the same authority as a common janitor.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Hmm. they sell the 55 model in canada, but not the US.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10071880&catid=22494

I don't think they are going to go through the trouble of getting that from a canadian affiliate and then giving it to you for free.....as they will say it's a different company I'm sure.

I tried that route. They ignored me when I mentioned it.

Part of my frustration/anger is that all along this process I have been treated as if I didn't say anything at all. It's a standard "Here is what we can do for you." I tell them how inadiquate that is and they reply with the same offer as before. Rinse & repeat. :mad:

[14ers]

I still do not understand how Best Buy can not honor their warranty.

Parts and Labour Coverage
We cover all the parts and labour necessary to return your product to factory specifications. If we cannot repair your product, we will provide a replacement.

Why can't they repair or replace your product as their warrant says they will? Did they offer you a replacement that met your original product specs; Not the price? I am kind of curious as to what your old model spec are and what model they are currently offering you as a replacement. Are you demanding that they give you a $600+ model that has better specs than the broken one you are returning?



Are you trying to turn a 2004 80gb DVR into a 2006 200gb DVR?

[Ksyrup]

You need(ed) to read the terms and conditions of the warranty. Notwithstanding what the original salesman told you, it's possible that they did indeed limit their liability to the purchase price if they don't have a comparably-priced model. I write extended warranties for a living, and the "repair or replace" language can be ambiguous. I've had a client in this situation with a refrigerator, and their position was that because the comparable model cost $400 more than the original model (which was pushing 10 years old), they weren't obligated to provide anything other than a model that cost what the original one did. Which makes some sense...if you total your car, the insurance company isn't going to give you enough money to buy a "comparable" but more expensive replacement.

I don't know all that much about the language BB uses in their contracts, but I'm almost positive that they have an insurer back their policies in nearly every state (called a cut-through clause). Basically, if the provider doesn't make good on a claim (typically within 60 days), the consumer can make the claim directly with the insurer. So you might want to look into that.

Also, what state are you in? I'm going to guess Michigan. If that's the case, I can tell you that Michigan does not specifically regulate service contracts/extended warranties, so they are most likely regulated under the state's trade practices act. So, you could try filing a complaint with the Michigan Attorney General's office. And since service contracts are often regulated by state insurance departments, it probably wouldn't hurt to file a complaint with the Michigan DOI, either. I know BB has been investigated for its warranty practices (mostly the hard sell stuff, which has lead it and Circuiy City to drop the commission structure for associates), so a well-placed complaint with the State might get you somewhere. Your best bet is to focuse on what the sales associate told you, depending on what the language of the contract says. They might have you on the terms and conditions, but I'd argue that they misrepresented them.

I've had the same thing happen...I had a guy at CompUSA tell me, when I bought a laptop, that I could take a baseball bat to it and they'd give me a new one. When I challenged him to show me where it covered for intentional damage in the contact, he kinda shut up about it.

But they make all sorts of boasts about that crap. Don't listen to any of it. If you're interested in buying one, read it for yourself. And some of them are worth it, but most aren't. BB sells those things on freaking everything and make a ton of money off of them. BB and CC don't report warranty sales as specfic line items, so no one knows for sure, but given how much money they lose on their appliance sales - especially as bad as CC has been going - it's estimated that upwards of 100% of CC's operating profits come from warranty sales. If I ever get the opportunity, I'm starting my own warranty company. It's a license to print money.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

NEVER EVER EVER EVER buy an extended warranty on anything. If you alwasy say no, trust me you will be ahead of the game if something ever breaks down. You will have saved more than anything you will ever have to spend on a repair yourself. There is a reason why they push these things on you at least 3 times before you get out of the store. It's not for your benefit, believe me.

The manufacturer already gives you a warranty. It's all you need.

I've bought a big screen HDTV, 3-4 computers, digital camera and vidcam, ipod, etc. I figure I have saved probably close to $2,000 by not buying the extended warranty.

Also, look into some credit cards that come with additional warranty protection and buy it with that.

[Anthony]

The manufacturer already gives you a warranty. It's all you need.


well, it's not about purchasing a warranty that is already there, it's about extending the one that is already provided to you.

that having been said, added into the cost of an extended warranty is the "relief factor", that is, the relief that you (most likely falsely) get knowing that should something happen to your purchase outside of the manufacturer's warranty that you're still covered.

to me, with the ever decreasing price of technology i think it's silly to expect the cost of repairing outdated technology to cost the same 5 years from now as it does today. i don't think it would cost me the same to repair a VHS player than it would my DVD player. but anyway, most of these extended warranties cost a lot of money, but how much really does it cost to fix a tv anyway? and you most likely will not need your set to be fixed.

i would probably get the extended warranty (my wife is a worry-wort), but only if the price was right.

[Vince]

I couldn't imagine NOT buying the extended waranty on my Xbox 360 -- a $500 investment backed up for $40. Definitely easy money to spend there.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yep, that's the feeling they prey on with these things. Ok guys, keep wasting your money.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

well, it's not about purchasing a warranty that is already there, it's about extending the one that is already provided to you.

that having been said, added into the cost of an extended warranty is the "relief factor", that is, the relief that you (most likely falsely) get knowing that should something happen to your purchase outside of the manufacturer's warranty that you're still covered.

to me, with the ever decreasing price of technology i think it's silly to expect the cost of repairing outdated technology to cost the same 5 years from now as it does today. i don't think it would cost me the same to repair a VHS player than it would my DVD player. but anyway, most of these extended warranties cost a lot of money, but how much really does it cost to fix a tv anyway? and you most likely will not need your set to be fixed.

i would probably get the extended warranty (my wife is a worry-wort), but only if the price was right.

If you ever happen to get a machine that is defective it almost always happens immediately after you buy it (well within the manufacturer's warranty). That was my point. And some manufacturer's warranties maybe a year or longer. Not to mention if you don't read the fine print you may not notice that most of the time a "2-year" extended warranty runs from the beginning of the purchase, so in my example you only really bought a 1 year extension. Not to mention which is the point of this thread is that the extended warranties don't always get you the result you think you are getting.

Anyways, you've all been warned.

[rowech]

Yep, that's the feeling they prey on with these things. Ok guys, keep wasting your money.

We got the extended warranty for our HDTV because it covers original bulb replacement. While it cost 400 bucks, the bulb replacement itself is about 200 so for the same price I would have paid for two years I got four. In my opinion, a very nice deal.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

??? I don't get it. It sounds like you just wasted 400 bucks. Do you actually know how often the bulbs need to be replaced? Not during the time of your extended warranty. And even if one did, it sounds like you still paid $200 too much. Plus, as I said, just wait until something breaks and see how "easy" is it is to get a repair.

My guess is the manufacturer's warranty was 1-2 years so you actually got 2-3 years, not 4 anyways.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Here's a concise 3-page discussion of why to say no.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=110&Itemid=34

And an excerpt:

The general rule of thumb is too avoid extended warranties however, if you're the type of person who requires the piece of mind that insurance brings, then the following are things you should consider when you're shopping:

* How long is the Manufacturers Warranty? - in the table below the cost of a 3 yr extended warranty for a $109 router is $30 for 2 years and $35 for three years. The manufacturers warranty is 3 years, so what exactly are you getting for $35?

* What required repairs does the Extended Warranty cover? That $600 or $800 for your plasma screen coverage doesn't include fixing damage for burn in. Ask questions.

* How likely is the product to fail? - Consumer electronics typically fail early in their lifespan because of a manufacturing defect or after a long useful life. In the first instance, the product is probably covered by the manufacturers warranty. In the second case, the extended warranty has probably expired.

* What is the Expected repair rate? - as noted above, digital camera's have an expected repair rate of 8% in three years. That means you've got a 92% chance that you won't have a problem. In addition, a significant amount of the that 8% occurs in the first year when the manufacturers warrantee is still in effect.

* How much does it cost? - the following chart highlights the price of extended warranties for various products at various price points from a major Canadian consumer electronics retailer. Please see our comments after the chart.


Product Price Mfr.
Warranty Cost
2 Yrs
3 yrs
4 yrs
5yrs
LCD HDTV $2,499 1 Year N/A 330 370 430
Plasma HDTV $5,499 1 Year 600 800 N/A N/A
DLP HDTV $2,999 2 Years N/A 370 410 470
Desktop PC $1,600 1 Year 240 280 N/A N/A
Laptop $1,600 1 Year 300 350 N/A N/A
Laptop $2,200 1 Year 400 450 N/A
N/A
Digital Camera $299 1 Year 40 50 70 N/A
DVD Rom Drive $50 1 Year 15 20 N/A N/A
Router $109 3 Years 30 35 N/A N/A


Some further observations from the chart above:

The Extended Warranty has no value. - note the router in our chart. The manufacturers warranty is 3 yrs. Why exactly are we getting that extended warranty?

Watch out for excessively high insurance rates - the warranty for our $329 digital camera is 21% of the purchase price for 3 years. The repair rate for digital camera's is 8% and the reality is that after a year you'll likely be able to buy an equivalent camera for half the price.

Is it really worth it? - we noted that it for 40% of the purchase price you can add an extra 2 years to your DVD-ROM drive warranty. Save the twenty bucks because in 2 years that's about what a new one will probably cost you.

The real key here is that if you never buy the extended warranty, the money you save on the 5 products that never failed within the warranty period will easily pay for any failure of one product that would have fallen outside the manufacturer warranty but inside the extended warranty.

[wade moore]

I was about to go crazy at FOFC until I read post 27 and 28...

I'm trying to figure out what the hell the anger at Best Buy is here? I understand that some people hate them, but let's look at this...

M GO BLUE buys a $379 DVD burner 3 years ago, he buys the extended warranty...

Fast forward to now and it breaks... he wants to replace it, so he wants the fancy brand-new model that costs $600 to replace it? Come on now, read your warranty... there's NO way that's what it says it will give you.

I think it is perfectly fair.. they are saying we don't have a model in a comparable price range, so you can use the value of the old one towards whatever you buy... I think all of this angst is completely unjustified.

[Axxon]

Fast forward to now and it breaks... he wants to replace it, so he wants the fancy brand-new model that costs $600 to replace it? Come on now, read your warranty... there's NO way that's what it says it will give you.


But that's what the sales people are telling the customer will happen. That's nothing to be upset about?

The last time I made major purchases at Best Buy ( laptop and digital camera ) I was given that spiel almost verbatim. I didn't opt in because I knew that it couldn't be the case but don't fault anyone who gets upset when they are lied to in order to get their money. Caveat emptor certainly but that surely doesn't mean the seller doesn't suck which is what was said.

[wade moore]

But that's what the sales people are telling the customer will happen. That's nothing to be upset about?

The last time I made major purchases at Best Buy ( laptop and digital camera ) I was given that spiel almost verbatim. I didn't opt in because I knew that it couldn't be the case but don't fault anyone who gets upset when they are lied to in order to get their money. Caveat emptor certainly but that surely doesn't mean the seller doesn't suck which is what was said.

I don't buy that the sales guy said they would give him a model that cost twice as much.

Let's get some common sense here.. if I bought a PS2 a year ago with the extended warranty should I expect the PS3 2 years from now if it breaks? Come on now...

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't buy that the sales guy said they would give him a model that cost twice as much.

You may not believe it, but I can assure you that this is a very common part of their spiel. Usually phrased something like "replace with the item or an equivalent model", with the strong implication that you'll get the same feature set in the replacement.

That isn't always what they mean, but it's very often what they attempt to convince you of.

So sayeth a customer who probably buys more stuff from Best Buy than any other similar retailer (so I've heard the pitch pretty often).

[Axxon]

I don't buy that the sales guy said they would give him a model that cost twice as much.

Let's get some common sense here.. if I bought a PS2 a year ago with the extended warranty should I expect the PS3 2 years from now if it breaks? Come on now...


Well, now you're calling me a liar too then since I had a sales guy tell me the same thing. Can't really find a point of communication when one side calls the other a liar and there's really no way to prove it one way or the other. Guess this conversation is over.

[Ksyrup]

It is very often part of the spiel. That's why I said above that "notwithstanding" what the guy told him, the T&Cs likely say something different. My caution is to never believe what they say, and if something sounds fishy and/or too good to be true, see if the contract backs it up.

I'm in the business, and even I admit that these things aren't always a good deal. I buy them rarely - on jewerly, since my wife's bracelets and necklaces seem to always break, and I bought one on the plasma HDTV I just bought since it cost less than 20% of the price of the TV. Also, the trend has been to lower the manufacturer's warranty, in an attempt to make these products somewhat necessary. If I'm not mistaken, the XBox has a 90 day manufacturer's warranty.

Also, the reason I kept calling it a service contract above, aside from the fact that it's the industry/regulatory jargon, is that often, it really is not an "extension of the manufacturer's warranty." Take BB, for example. They offer a service contract on pretty much everything they sell, made by dozens of manufacturers. There's no way one set of T&Cs can perfectly match what the underlying warranty gave you. What they provide may be more or less than you get with the manufacturer's warranty. So I try to avoid the phrase "extended warranty," although it's difficult.

[Axxon]

You may not believe it, but I can assure you that this is a very common part of their spiel. Usually phrased something like "replace with the item or an equivalent model", with the strong implication that you'll get the same feature set in the replacement.

That isn't always what they mean, but it's very often what they attempt to convince you of.

So sayeth a customer who probably buys more stuff from Best Buy than any other similar retailer (so I've heard the pitch pretty often).

The sales guy I bought the laptop from started with this then took it the extra step to state that they "had to" replace it with what was available at the time and noted that since computers have such a short lifecycle that I would basically be able to get a much better machine if mine broke near the end of the extended warranty.

I won anyway, the laptop waited exactly 3 years and 3 weeks after I bought it to die. Of course, if I'd had the warranty I might have pushed that up a little since it was pretty much mortally wounded before this.

[wade moore]

You may not believe it, but I can assure you that this is a very common part of their spiel. Usually phrased something like "replace with the item or an equivalent model", with the strong implication that you'll get the same feature set in the replacement.

That isn't always what they mean, but it's very often what they attempt to convince you of.

So sayeth a customer who probably buys more stuff from Best Buy than any other similar retailer (so I've heard the pitch pretty often).

This is a FAR cry from "we'll give you something that costs twice as much"... The equivalent model to what he has is now in a bargain bin somewhere. He wants them to replace it with a newer model that I'm sure has better features, burns faster, etc.

To Axxon and the others - it's not their fault that you are gullible enough to not ask specifics. Saying "an equivalent model" is a far cry from saying that they will replace it with whatever fancy model is on the floor. Use some common sense, they're not going to replace it with some new, far improved model that is twice the value. If you believe that, you shouldn't be buying extended warranties. If something they're saying makes you believe that, you better be looking at the fine print to be sure it is there.

I got an extended warranty from Best Buy for my Tivo, took it in, and the lowest end model was still better than what I had. However, I could get the mid-range for the value of my old one, so that's what I got. It is pretty straightforward to me and I'm surprised that anyone would actually believe that they'll replace it with the hot-lick new version that has way more value than their old POS did even when they bought it.

[wade moore]

The sales guy I bought the laptop from started with this then took it the extra step to state that they "had to" replace it with what was available at the time and noted that since computers have such a short lifecycle that I would basically be able to get a much better machine if mine broke near the end of the extended warranty.

Again, this is a FAR cry from what M GO BLUE is asking for here. The sales guy is saying that since the value of yours goes down, that something that was worht the equivalent value (as M GO BLUE is being offered here) would be better than your current machine. There is nothing untruthful about this and is different than M GO BLUE's situation.

[JonInMiddleGA]

This is a FAR cry from "we'll give you something that costs twice as much"... The equivalent model to what he has is now in a bargain bin somewhere. He wants them to replace it with a newer model that I'm sure has better features, burns faster, etc.

In the event that an same/equivalent model no longer is stocked,then the closest thing (which would be an upgrade) IS what you're told you will receive. They sometimes even go so far as to say this straight out -- that since this model isn't likely to exist by then, you'll be upgraded to a newer,better model for "free". Whether this precise wording is used seems to depend on how hard you hold out against buying the service plan / how close they think you are to buying it. As I know from personal experience, what you're more likely to end up getting is a refund of your full original purchase price, but that doesn't prevent them from both implying & directly stating otherwise (and neither does the wording in the fine print).

Believe what you want to Wade, but Axxon & the rest of us are telling it like it is (with regard to how the warranty/service contracts are presented).

[Ksyrup]

Another thing to watch for is whether they state that they can give you a refurbished/reconditioned unit as the replacement. That is somewhat common as well.

[wade moore]

In the event that an same/equivalent model no longer is stocked,then the closest thing (which would be an upgrade) IS what you're told you will receive. They sometimes even go so far as to say this straight out -- that since this model isn't likely to exist by then, you'll be upgraded to a newer,better model for "free". Whether this precise wording is used seems to depend on how hard you hold out against buying the service plan / how close they think you are to buying it. As I know from personal experience, what you're more likely to end up getting is a refund of your full original purchase price, but that doesn't prevent them from both implying & directly stating otherwise (and neither does the wording in the fine print).

Believe what you want to Wade, but Axxon & the rest of us are telling it like it is (with regard to how the warranty/service contracts are presented).

I understand they imply otherwise, but I still do not believe that if you asked them "What if it costs twice what I paid for this one" that they would say, "sure, you still get it".

I just puleld out my extended warranty for my TiVO... and I quote..

"Products, including those within the origianl manufacturer's warranty period, may be repaired or replaced with a comparable product, or Best Buy will issue a voucher for the original purchase price at our discretion"

Again, maybe the Best Buy people give a hard sale and only imply the first part of this statement and leave the rest out. But ultimately, YOU are responsible to read this language that is written down on paper. I find all this screaming and huffing about Best Buy doing exactly what it says in writing that they will do to be completely silly.

[wade moore]

Also...

Jon, you of all people I am surprised are basing anything off of what some shmuck in a blue shirt says...

[JonInMiddleGA]

I understand they imply otherwise, but I still do not believe that if you asked them "What if it costs twice what I paid for this one" that they would say, "sure, you still get it".

And what I'm telling you is "oh yes, they will".

Wade, they will say pretty much anything to sell the damned service contract. They will lie, cheat, promise the earth, the sun, the stars, and the moon. There's no real recourse against them for doing it, you can't prove it (short of being equipped with a handy hidden camera at the time), and it wouldn't matter much if you could since somewhere in the fine print is typically a disclaimer that disavows anything that they said & only takes responsibility

But the point that I'm agreeing with here is that they will definitely claim {insert pretty much anything here}, not whether or not they will deliver on that promise. Nor on whether anybody ought to believe anything that they haven't read clearly & unmistakably in black letters on white paper.

I find all this screaming and huffing about Best Buy doing exactly what it says in writing that they will do to be completely silly.

I disagree, since it's also Best Buy that has representatives looking you squarely in the eye & lying to customers on a regular basis. The outrage is about the lying. The reason it doesn't bite them in the ass in lost business is because everybody else in the industry does the same shit.

[wade moore]

Meh. This comes down to your synical world view I think. I have bought many, many bigger ticket items at best buy - in fact it is where I believe every major piece of electronics in my house except for my computer came from, and I have never had these problems. Some things I buy the service contract for, some things I don't. I've never had someone out and out lie and say things that are not in the service contract.

Again though, all that being said, it is upon you to be sure of what is in writing before you make the purchase. If M GO BLUE reads the fine print (which isn't really fine looking at mine) he is whining about trying to buy a DVD Burner, but the Best Buy guy lies to him about the Service Contract so he walks out. Instead, he's whining about not being to get the replacement he thinks he should get.

And, I still think there's a bit of lacking in common sense to think that Best Buy would actually do what M GO BLUE wants them to do, it would not make good business sense.

[Ksyrup]

As I stated above, BB and CC, in particular, have had various state AG investigations of their practices - probably still on-going in some form or fashion - which has impacted the way in which they market service contracts. I know from my own experience that within the past few years, I have never been anywhere close to pressured into buying one of these. They ask, I turn it down, they move on. Or, they ask at the check-out counter, I decline, they take my money. Now, if you express some interest, I'm sure that's when they start the hard sell. I don't know whether they are purposefully lying or the person selling is unaware of what they actually provide, but either way, if you are contemplating buying a service contract, (a) read the T&Cs to see exactly what you get; and (b) file a complaint with the AG's office or state insurance agency if you feel you were lied to or misled. As I said, they've likely got an open file on these companies anyway.

Really, I don't trust these people to show me exactly where they stock certain products or to accurately describe the features of these products, so thinking they can or will accurately describe what is basically an insurance contract is pure insanity, IMO.

[wade moore]

Really, I don't trust these people to show me exactly where they stock certain products or to accurately describe the features of these products, so thinking they can or will accurately describe what is basically an insurance contract is pure insanity, IMO.

Exactly. Maybe I was too extreme with my, "i don't believe" and should have said more, "in my many experiences"... but what KSyrup just said is the crux of the matter. If they're feeding you that jibber jabber, and you believe it... who's fault is it really?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I have bought many, many bigger ticket items at best buy - in fact it is where I believe every major piece of electronics in my house except for my computer came from

Virtually the same here ... except that most of my computers are from BB as well.

I've never had someone out and out lie and say things that are not in the service contract.

Based on my own experiences, I'd say you've been lucky then. They're pretty much in the category of " ... when their lips are moving" with me at this point.

[Ksyrup]

And since you know that, I blame you as much as them. Fool me once, shame on you. Keep doing it while I call you out on a message board yet I still fall for it...

[wade moore]

Based on my own experiences, I'd say you've been lucky then. They're pretty much in the category of " ... when their lips are moving" with me at this point.

Just a side note on this conversation...

It may be a product of where we live... I know that I avoid these stores like the plague when I am up in the DC Area because of some bad experiences while I was still in High School and living up there... Being in a smaller town, etc, etc. may work in my favor as I know that just on the whole at stores, restaurants, etc customer service is 100x better here.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And since you know that, I blame you as much as them. Fool me once, shame on you. Keep doing it while I call you out on a message board yet I still fall for it...

a) I didn't say that I fell for it, just that they do it/try to do it. Big ol' difference.

b) The only options seems to be to either order online (where you aren't always sure what you're getting) or to pay much higher prices for the same item from Local Dealer X or simply not buy Widget Y at all, since damned if I could name any chain that I don't have the same general experience with.

Since I don't buy that many widgets that I don't need for some purpose (i.e. I'm not an early adopter nor am I an impulse buyer for electronics), I stick with the best of several bad choices.

But that doesn't make the retailers behavior right, nor does it free them from being deserving of the occasional serious bitching about.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It may be a product of where we live... Being in a smaller town, etc, etc. may work in my favor as I know that just on the whole at stores, restaurants, etc customer service is 100x better here.

And here I sit thinking somewhat of the opposite is true (about the locations at least). I've had better experiences in the larger metro suburbs than I've had in places like Macon. I think the customers for BB type products in the former are generally more savvy & therefore more demanding, meaning the stores get away with a little less crap.

[wade moore]

a) I didn't say that I fell for it, just that they do it/try to do it. Big ol' difference.

b) The only options seems to be to either order online (where you aren't always sure what you're getting) or to pay much higher prices for the same item from Local Dealer X or simply not buy Widget Y at all, since damned if I could name any chain that I don't have the same general experience with.

Since I don't buy that many widgets that I don't need for some purpose (i.e. I'm not an early adopter nor am I an impulse buyer for electronics), I stick with the best of several bad choices.

But that doesn't make the retailers behavior right, nor does it free them from being deserving of the occasional serious bitching about.

I'm confused... so you won't buy from BB because they might pressure you to buy the extended service contract a bit? As long as you know and understand the extended plan and know when to buy it, it shouldn't matter what they say.

it's not like local dealer X or a website are going to give you some kind of better service deal - this is kind of standard.

[Barkeep49]

As I stated above, BB and CC, in particular, have had various state AG investigations of their practices - probably still on-going in some form or fashion - which has impacted the way in which they market service contracts. I know from my own experience that within the past few years, I have never been anywhere close to pressured into buying one of these. They ask, I turn it down, they move on. Or, they ask at the check-out counter, I decline, they take my money. Now, if you express some interest, I'm sure that's when they start the hard sell. I don't know whether they are purposefully lying or the person selling is unaware of what they actually provide, but either way, if you are contemplating buying a service contract, (a) read the T&Cs to see exactly what you get; and (b) file a complaint with the AG's office or state insurance agency if you feel you were lied to or misled. As I said, they've likely got an open file on these companies anyway.

Really, I don't trust these people to show me exactly where they stock certain products or to accurately describe the features of these products, so thinking they can or will accurately describe what is basically an insurance contract is pure insanity, IMO.
See I always express the opposite of interest, often bringing up said AG investigations, and this often seems to make them want to convince me even more.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm confused... so you won't buy from BB because they might pressure you to buy the extended service contract a bit?


Yes, you are confused ;)

I don't believe a word they say about hardly anything. But I also already know when to/not to buy the extended service plan & what it entails, so at this point I basically try to shut them the hell up ASAP & then do whatever I was going to do minus the useless noise.

That said, I've heard the pitch more times than I can count since a lot of their employees aren't very good at understanding when the customer simply wants them to STFU. Those who persist in trying to continue the pitch without regard to my "I am not interested, you're wasting your time, let's move on" sometimes are then given the opportunity to pitch their little hearts out, complete with questions & everything ... before I shoot them down in flames & point out that I tried to stop them 10 minutes ago but they wouldn't listen.
It's much like the technique used on telemarketers, only in a brick & mortar environment.

[st.cronin]

NEVER EVER EVER EVER buy an extended warranty on anything.

Words to live by. Extended warranties are specifically designed to get more money out of the consumer, and to increase profit margins. Buying an extended warranty makes about as much sense as tipping the salesman.

[wade moore]

Yes, you are confused ;)

I don't believe a word they say about hardly anything. But I also already know when to/not to buy the extended service plan & what it entails, so at this point I basically try to shut them the hell up ASAP & then do whatever I was going to do minus the useless noise.

That said, I've heard the pitch more times than I can count since a lot of their employees aren't very good at understanding when the customer simply wants them to STFU. Those who persist in trying to continue the pitch without regard to my "I am not interested, you're wasting your time, let's move on" sometimes are then given the opportunity to pitch their little hearts out, complete with questions & everything ... before I shoot them down in flames & point out that I tried to stop them 10 minutes ago but they wouldn't listen.
It's much like the technique used on telemarketers, only in a brick & mortar environment.

Would this be a bad time to mention I was a telemarketer for almost 2 years?

Anyway. I guess this is just coming from vastly different experiences. I have only gotten the hardsell I think once at BB (CC is a different story). But, I can get the point that basically you don't go there because you don't want to listen to them - rather than that you get a better plan elsewhere. Is that basically what you're saying?

[wade moore]

Words to live by. Extended warranties are specifically designed to get more money out of the consumer, and to increase profit margins. Buying an extended warranty makes about as much sense as tipping the salesman.

I have to totally disagree with this.

There is a right time and a wrong time to buy a service plan.

For instance, as many mentioned above, buying a PS2 that has a history of failures for $200-$300 and buying the $30 4 year service plan makes sense.

Buying a $400 Tube TV with a $200 3 year service plan, not so much.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is that basically what you're saying?

Nope, you're still confused ;)

I still buy the majority of electronic stuff at BB. Not because I think they're spiffy to deal with, but because they usually beat CC's prices by a bit & have a better selection (or at least a selection more suited to my taste).

Buying from them /= I think they don't suck.

[wade moore]

Nope, you're still confused ;)

I still buy the majority of electronic stuff at BB. Not because I think they're spiffy to deal with, but because they usually beat CC's prices by a bit & have a better selection (or at least a selection more suited to my taste).

Buying from them /= I think they don't suck.

Gotcha.. I was confused by your statement of, "The only options seems to be to either order online (where you aren't always sure what you're getting) or to pay much higher prices for the same item from Local Dealer X or simply not buy Widget Y at all, since damned if I could name any chain that I don't have the same general experience with."

And I agree with you on CC.. but on top of that since they work on commission I find them to be a bit more sleazy (although also more informed) sometimes.

[rkmsuf]

Whaaaaaaa, my DVD broke. Suck it up, buttercup.

[stevew]

Man, I just got a job with Sears for the holiday. It's like job duty 1 and 1A to endoctrinate the customer that they have to buy the Maintenence agreement and/or Replacement plan.

[rkmsuf]

Man, I just got a job with Sears for the holiday. It's like job duty 1 and 1A to endoctrinate the customer that they have to buy the Maintenence agreement and/or Replacement plan.

do they teach you to lay the guilt trip on people that don't want to buy it?

[Izulde]

Things I buy the extended warranty on:
Computers and console systems

Things I don't buy the extended warranty on:
Everything else

If I drove, I'd probably get the extended warranty there too.

Why?

Because of the level of investment you're making and the relative low cost of the insurance for it.

[wade moore]

Because of the level of investment you're making and the relative low cost of the insurance for it.

I think this applies to some other things too. Like I said, I have my TiVO plan right here and I paid $75 for a $300 box.

The Hard Drive died after 2 1/2 years and I got $300 towards another one, and I went from a 40 hour box to an 80 our box with no cost to me.

Seems like a good deal to me.

[Toddzilla]

NO company would EVER offer any kind of exended waranty if they didn't make significant profit from it. Warranties are for suckers, man.

[stevew]

do they teach you to lay the guilt trip on people that don't want to buy it?

Haven't gotten that far yet. The interview made me feel like I was in the movie Boiler Room or something. Basically it could be a good way to earn some extra cash for the holidays, plus I'll get a decent discount at sears and Kmart which will help with christmas presents.

[Ksyrup]

NO company would EVER offer any kind of exended waranty if they didn't make significant profit from it. Warranties are for suckers, man.

It's the concept of spreading risk, which is why it is basically insurance. They recognize they are going to pay on some claims, but the reality is, between the products that don't fail and the consumers who don't keep track of their receipts and paperwork, they are going to make a big profit. So, if you're the kind of person who loses receipts, throws stuff away, would never go through the hassle of trying to make a claim, then yes, you're throwing your money away. Otherwise, it can be a decent investment.

Generally speaking, I'd say you ordinarily don't want to buy a service contract on things like refrigerators, dishwashers, washing machines, and tube TVs. Typically, those items last well beyond even the extended warranty period. I just had a tube TV die at 5-6 years, but even that would have been beyond the typical 2-3 year service contract. I also bought a 4-year service contract on a portable DVD player when they were somewhat new to the market. That's another area I've considered them worthwhile - new technology. You never know how the first or second generation machines will hold up, and if they do break, chances are you'll get a nice tech upgrade with the replacement they give you.

[Desnudo]

This is a FAR cry from "we'll give you something that costs twice as much"... The equivalent model to what he has is now in a bargain bin somewhere. He wants them to replace it with a newer model that I'm sure has better features, burns faster, etc.

To Axxon and the others - it's not their fault that you are gullible enough to not ask specifics. Saying "an equivalent model" is a far cry from saying that they will replace it with whatever fancy model is on the floor. Use some common sense, they're not going to replace it with some new, far improved model that is twice the value. If you believe that, you shouldn't be buying extended warranties. If something they're saying makes you believe that, you better be looking at the fine print to be sure it is there.

I got an extended warranty from Best Buy for my Tivo, took it in, and the lowest end model was still better than what I had. However, I could get the mid-range for the value of my old one, so that's what I got. It is pretty straightforward to me and I'm surprised that anyone would actually believe that they'll replace it with the hot-lick new version that has way more value than their old POS did even when they bought it.

I've never bought an extended warranty, but they do make that "get a better product later" offer all the time. And they do actually replace old/broken models with higher level ones. Some of my friends have had that happen. It probably depends on the individual store.

[Ksyrup]

I've never bought an extended warranty, but they do make that "get a better product later" offer all the time. And they do actually replace old/broken models with higher level ones. Some of my friends have had that happen. It probably depends on the individual store.

As well as the cost. Theoretically, as technology improves, prices may stay the same but the quality or features will be enhanced. A 2002 DVD player that cost $250 might be replaced with a 2006 DVD player that costs about the same, but is significantly better in many respects than the original.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

The Hard Drive died after 2 1/2 years and I got $300 towards another one, and I went from a 40 hour box to an 80 our box with no cost to me.

Seems like a good deal to me.

Alright. It seems like a good deal to you. Well, just to clarify... the hard drive was fine. The DVD burner drive died.

If I had not been suckered into buying a warranty: I would have a HDD recorder unit that had a bad DVD burner drive. I could look around for another unit that was problematic on ebay and possibly find another unit that I could purchase cheaply and salvage parts. I would also have $200 more in my bank account. That $200 would go towards either the additional unit, or a new unit that Best Buy does not carry. J&R sells it for $429. Amount spent to date for both units: Approx $800.

Since I was flat out lied to by several Best Buy employees and suckered into purchasing the warranty, the total (with tax) for the original unit jumped to about $550. That is about $100 less than the new model that came out at the time. (If I had just purchased the newer model it may still be working now, as the one I bought was a floor model.) I do not have my originally purchased model, because they junked it (and sent me the worthless DVD that was inside.) I cannot get the comparable model from Best Buy, so I will have to purchase it from J&R. The total coming out of my pocket right now is the exact same total that would have come out if I had not purchased the warranty. When I purchase the unit from J&R the amount spent to date for both units: Approx $1000.

So they want to give me $329 in store credit. Honestly, the only thing I need for my system would be the HDD/DVD recorder. The models that Best Buy has are models that I would not have purchased even two years ago. There are some features on the new one I will buy that I like, some that I don't. I would love just having my original back to try and fix, but they took that from me without permission to junk it..

You may think that store credit is some wonderous thing that should have me kissing their holy feet, but I honestly have nothing in the store that interests me. So the store credit is next to useless.

Another thing I have thought of... The original price on my unit was $700. Under your logic, if they had sold me the same unit and kept the exact same model on sale and it died two months later, they would apply $329 toward the purchase of the $700 model. So would I be wrong then in feeling cheated for spending the extra $200?

In addition, if I had purchased the model at $700 and the warranty for an additional $200 and it dies two years later, do I then get $700 in store credit? No. They would knock it down to what they felt a comparable model would be worth.

I would be happy if they gave me my original unit back and the store credit, but that's not going to happen. I feel like I was screwed twice. (Actually several more times if you count all the piss-poor customer service from those one step up from telemarketers.)

[rkmsuf]

Alright. It seems like a good deal to you. Well, just to clarify... the hard drive was fine. The DVD burner drive died.

If I had not been suckered into buying a warranty: I would have a HDD recorder unit that had a bad DVD burner drive. I could look around for another unit that was problematic on ebay and possibly find another unit that I could purchase cheaply and salvage parts. I would also have $200 more in my bank account. That $200 would go towards either the additional unit, or a new unit that Best Buy does not carry. J&R sells it for $429. Amount spent to date for both units: Approx $800.

Since I was flat out lied to by several Best Buy employees and suckered into purchasing the warranty, the total (with tax) for the original unit jumped to about $550. That is about $100 less than the new model that came out at the time. (If I had just purchased the newer model it may still be working now, as the one I bought was a floor model.) I do not have my originally purchased model, because they junked it (and sent me the worthless DVD that was inside.) I cannot get the comparable model from Best Buy, so I will have to purchase it from J&R. The total coming out of my pocket right now is the exact same total that would have come out if I had not purchased the warranty. When I purchase the unit from J&R the amount spent to date for both units: Approx $1000.

So they want to give me $329 in store credit. Honestly, the only thing I need for my system would be the HDD/DVD recorder. The models that Best Buy has are models that I would not have purchased even two years ago. There are some features on the new one I will buy that I like, some that I don't. I would love just having my original back to try and fix, but they took that from me without permission to junk it..

You may think that store credit is some wonderous thing that should have me kissing their holy feet, but I honestly have nothing in the store that interests me. So the store credit is next to useless.

Another thing I have thought of... The original price on my unit was $700. Under your logic, if they had sold me the same unit and kept the exact same model on sale and it died two months later, they would apply $329 toward the purchase of the $700 model. So would I be wrong then in feeling cheated for spending the extra $200?

In addition, if I had purchased the model at $700 and the warranty for an additional $200 and it dies two years later, do I then get $700 in store credit? No. They would knock it down to what they felt a comparable model would be worth.

I would be happy if they gave me my original unit back and the store credit, but that's not going to happen. I feel like I was screwed twice. (Actually several more times if you count all the piss-poor customer service from those one step up from telemarketers.)

man this dvd thing is really bothering you

[wade moore]

Whoah there killer.

First of all, I did not say YOUR warranty was a good purchase. I said that some warranties are good, and gave an example. You paid $200 on a $329 purchase. That, I'm sorry, is just stupidity.

All of that being said, I'm not sure I'm understanding your situation. If you paid $700 for the unit, you would indeed then get $700. At least, from my experience. You paid $329 originally and that's why they're giving that amount to you, right?

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, $200 warranty on a $329 unit, or was it a $700 unit? Now I'm confused. There's no way you should pay more than about 20% of the product price on the warranty. Anything more, and it's a really bad buy (aside from the bad buy it might be to begin with).

[M GO BLUE!!!]

It was originally $700. They had it marked down to $329.

I can see your telemarketing training paid off. You sound like the CSR Supervisor who kept asking me after every time I explained the situation "Can I help you with anything else?"

Do you guys practice this stuff? You should get into politics with this ability!

[Ksyrup]

Sorry, I'll stop trying to give helpful advice to someone who was just looking for a sympathetic bitch party.

Try the text-messaging service from cellflirts.com. That might be up your alley - at least they'll be more than happy to listen and agree with everything you say.

[BrianD]

I'm not sure I see the problem here. Had your unit (floor unit) broke early, you would have gotten the same unit (new) as a replacement. Since the unit wasn't available, you got all your money back (minus the prorated service contract amount). You basically got a few years of use for the price of the service contract (prorated). That sounds right to me. About the only cause for complaint I can see is that you got store credit instead of cash. I'd be happy with store credit, but I can see where a person would want cash instead.

At this point you are out, what, $100-$200? Had you not bought the service contract, you'd be out $329.

[Ksyrup]

I'm not sure I see the problem here. Had your unit (floor unit) broke early, you would have gotten the same unit (new) as a replacement. Since the unit wasn't available, you got all your money back (minus the prorated service contract amount). You basically got a few years of use for the price of the service contract (prorated). That sounds right to me. About the only cause for complaint I can see is that you got store credit instead of cash. I'd be happy with store credit, but I can see where a person would want cash instead.

At this point you are out, what, $100-$200? Had you not bought the service contract, you'd be out $329.

This is not what he wants to hear, so please shut up! ;)

[BrianD]

This is not what he wants to hear, so please shut up! ;)

I realize that. :)

Seriously though, this sounds like it should be an argument for purchasing a service contract. True he didn't come out as far ahead as he wanted to, but he still came out ahead...unless I've got some math wrong somewhere...

[Ksyrup]

I agree. The store credit thing I can see as being as issue, but shit, I'd just find someone who was going to buy a PS3 and exchange it with them for the cash.

[wade moore]

I realize that. :)

Seriously though, this sounds like it should be an argument for purchasing a service contract. True he didn't come out as far ahead as he wanted to, but he still came out ahead...unless I've got some math wrong somewhere...

Yup.

He seriously wants to hear that he's right no matter what. He bought a bad service contract without understanding what was written into the contract.

That's not his fault, it's Best Buy's... give me a break. Your wants here are completely unrealistic.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Sorry Wade, regardles of what the fine print in the contract says, carelessly or knowingly making false verbal statements on a repeated basis throughout the country is immoral if not illegal.

[BrianD]

Sorry Wade, regardles of what the fine print in the contract says, carelessly or knowingly making false verbal statements on a repeated basis throughout the country is immoral if not illegal.

Best Buy employees may do this on a regular basis, but I don't see that happening here. The sales guy promised him a new unit if his failed. Seems reasonable to assume that it is a new version of the floor unit he bought. Since that particular unit wasn't available years later, he got his full purchase price back.

[wade moore]

Best Buy employees may do this on a regular basis, but I don't see that happening here. The sales guy promised him a new unit if his failed. Seems reasonable to assume that it is a new version of the floor unit he bought. Since that particular unit wasn't available years later, he got his full purchase price back.

Yup.

And again, it may be wrong, but it's YOUR responsibility to know what is in writing. Like Jon said, do you trust these guys to find the latest Poison CD on the rack for you? You trust them to know the fine tunings of the service contract?!

[rkmsuf]

Yup.

And again, it may be wrong, but it's YOUR responsibility to know what is in writing. Like Jon said, do you trust these guys to find the latest Poison CD on the rack for you? You trust them to know the fine tunings of the service contract?!

Talk dirty to me.

[st.cronin]

Things I buy the extended warranty on:
Computers and console systems

Things I don't buy the extended warranty on:
Everything else

If I drove, I'd probably get the extended warranty there too.

Why?

Because of the level of investment you're making and the relative low cost of the insurance for it.

If you knew the profit margin on extended warranties for cars...

The problem with "extended warranties" is actually a semantic one. You are not buying an "extended warranty" - you are placing a wager that the product you are buying will be defective.

It's like buying a lottery ticket - some consumers come out ahead, but for the typical consumer there is no situation where it makes economic sense.

[Fidatelo]

As people have said, extended warranties are basically insurance. And the only time you should _ever_ insure something is if you absolutely cannot afford to deal with the consequences of not having it.

Insurance over time is a money losing proposition for the purchaser, anyone who can do basic math can discover that. The odds are always in favor of the consumer, if you can afford to play the odds, you should. The reason everyone owns house insurance is because they can't afford to deal with having to replace a home. But with the exception of the unlucky few, most people will die having spent far, far more on their home insurance then they ever get back out of it.

In fact, many extremely wealthy people don't even buy home insurance for the above reasons. If, God forbid, their home were destroyed, they could afford to replace it, so they play the odds and most of them come out ahead. When it comes to things like TV's, DVD players, and yes, even cars, we should all be doing the same thing. These people got rich for a reason, and foolishly giving away hundreds of dollars here and there for insurance on luxury items is not one of them.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I'm not sure I see the problem here.
I know that.

Had your unit (floor unit) broke early, you would have gotten the same unit (new) as a replacement.
It has become apparant to me that even if the original unit was still available when the unit failed that Best Buy would NOT have replaced it with the exact same unit, unless I would have paid them the difference. So I essentially spent $200 to get $329 in store credit and no unit (which could have been fixed or sold)
Since the unit wasn't available, you got all your money back (minus the prorated service contract amount). You basically got a few years of use for the price of the service contract (prorated).
I am getting nothing back on the warranty. There is no proration.

About the only cause for complaint I can see is that you got store credit instead of cash. I'd be happy with store credit, but I can see where a person would want cash instead.

At this point you are out, what, $100-$200? Had you not bought the service contract, you'd be out $329.
Had I not bought the service contract I would have the $200.

I would, as you say be out $329, but that is store credit. It is not $329 (which I never expected a refund on.)

Replacing the unit will cost the exact same amount as it would if I had never purchased the warranty.

I have learned a valuable lesson here.

I just hope karma comes onto each of these bastards like a motherfucker.

[wade moore]

It has become apparant to me that even if the original unit was still available when the unit failed that Best Buy would NOT have replaced it with the exact same unit, unless I would have paid them the difference.


Yes, they would.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Yes, they would.

How is it they would have? All they care about is the bottom line. A "new" unit of the same model as I purchased was worth twice as much originally as I paid. They lie through their teeth and only seem to get their story straight when it comes to screwing the consumer. My money was lost the second I made the mistake of listening to anyone at Best Buy and gave them the credit card number. I just wish they would have returned the unit they decided wasn't worth repairing (since I paid for it it still technically be my property, right?)

[wade moore]

How is it they would have? All they care about is the bottom line. A "new" unit of the same model as I purchased was worth twice as much originally as I paid. They lie through their teeth and only seem to get their story straight when it comes to screwing the consumer. My money was lost the second I made the mistake of listening to anyone at Best Buy and gave them the credit card number. I just wish they would have returned the unit they decided wasn't worth repairing (since I paid for it it still technically be my property, right?)

*sigh*

You obviously aren't going to listen to reason, so I give up. You have your axe to grind and it doesn't matter what anyone else says. You made a bad decision. Accept it and move on.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

*sigh*

You obviously aren't going to listen to reason, so I give up. You have your axe to grind and it doesn't matter what anyone else says. You made a bad decision. Accept it and move on.

I will be forced to accept it and move on. I made a terrible decision in listening to anything that any salesman had to say, particularly at Best Buy.

But exacty what reason should I be listening to here?

Should I be humble and gracious for the opportunity to accept something so amazingly generous as the gift card? (cue hallelujah chorus)

[Axxon]

To Axxon and the others - it's not their fault that you are gullible enough to not ask specifics.

Well, since I didn't believe the guy I'm not sure why I'm gullible but whatever. I just said I could understand someone believing what they are told. I don't think we should glorify those who would lie to us simply because some of us will believe the lies. I say it sucks, Best Buy knows about it and encourage it thus they suck which was the title of the thread which was what I commented on with my first post.

[wade moore]

I will be forced to accept it and move on. I made a terrible decision in listening to anything that any salesman had to say, particularly at Best Buy.

But exacty what reason should I be listening to here?

Should I be humble and gracious for the opportunity to accept something so amazingly generous as the gift card? (cue hallelujah chorus)

No, you're supposed to learn a lesson, read the contract next time, and take what is owed to you this time based on the contract and not throw a 5-year old fit.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

No, you're supposed to learn a lesson, read the contract next time, and take what is owed to you this time based on the contract and not throw a 5-year old fit.

I wish I could just get conned into throwing money away and say "Gosh golly gee, I'm a lucky man to learn such a valuable lesson!" But my anger simply multiplied each time their staff would tell me one thing, then another only leading to what I should have known in the first place: that you can never win in this life. All you can do is laugh at the insignifican gnats that work there and hope that one day they are eaten by a herd of wild buffalo.

[wade moore]

Wow.

Please go back and read rksmuf's original post. You are WAY too upset about this.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Wow.

Please go back and read rksmuf's original post. You are WAY too upset about this.

Actually I am too upset over this. I know it. It's to the point where I am laughing my ass off because there is no other release.

One thing I just thought of though is talking with the producer of a show I work on about doing a talk show segment on afternoon drive in NYC about how companies such as Best Buy pull things like this. I am sure that there are many other people who would gladly call in and relate their wonderful experiences.

I know I will likely get nothing more than the practically worthless gift card. But I will be happy if I can cost Best Buy a few dollars by a few people becoming wise to their deceptive tactics.

[Axxon]

No, you're supposed to learn a lesson, read the contract next time, and take what is owed to you this time based on the contract and not throw a 5-year old fit.

Oh, and you're supposed to not have a problem with people lying to you either as that's acceptable store behavior.

[wade moore]

Oh, and you're supposed to not have a problem with people lying to you either as that's acceptable store behavior.

*sigh*

[Axxon]

*sigh*

Wade it's a big part of what you're saying. I know you're saying more and you're trying to help him but the fundamental underlying theme is that he shouldn't be upset as well as he should take what he can get.

I agree he should move on from here but believe that he has every reason to be upset.

[Logan]

I'm pretty sure this has been pointed out like 10 times, but let me see if I'm missing something here.

Your original post:

Two years ago I bought a Panasonic DVD recorder with built in hard drive. It was a good deal because it was a floor model. The salesman told me what a great warranty I could purchase for $200. According to him, if the unit failed and they could not fix it they would replace it with a new model. I brought up that the new model cost twice as much as I was paying and he said that it didn't matter... they would give me the new model.

You note that they would give you the new model of that same burner if/when it broke. Let's go through what happened step by step.

if the unit failed

check

and they could not fix it

check

they would replace it with a new model

No check, because there is no new model to replace it with. Where should they track down a brand-new model of your two-year old burner? They can't. As a result, they give you a credit for the full value of your purchase. I'm sorry, but after 105 posts in this thread, I can't see how you can possibly expect that they would give you something other than what you've been given.

P.S. For your benefit, I'm ignoring the fact that you actually bought a floor model.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Oh, and you're supposed to not have a problem with people lying to you either as that's acceptable store behavior.

Actually it is perfectly acceptable behavior in sales, whether by the used car salesman that tells you that the little beauty you're buying was driven to and from church by a grandma, a guy in a yellow polo shirt and brown pants that he could never get laid in selling DVD unit or a telemarketer selling worthless junk out of a subbasement somewhere and taking old ladies life savings.

The last time I was this upset happened to be over a lie surrounding a warranty on a car I purchased. The salesman happened to not have a copy of the plan on him, but assured me that any problems with the engine or trans were covered. I specifically asked about head gaskets, which I knew the Olds Quad 4 had problems with. He assured me that they were covered. I had seen an identical car listed for $1000 more at another dealer, but it had been sold already. They guy told me that this woman traded it in, blah blah blah. I mentioned the other dealer and he said he had heard they were a good dealer, but he had never done any business with them. He said he had sent out for a new title on the car so he didn't have it there. It was a good deal on the exact car I had been looking for so I bought it and the warranty. I drove the car home and checked the oil again... There was water in it. Bad head gasket. Guess what the warranty didn't cover?

When I got the title from the state it listed the woman who had previously owned it, then the dealer that listed the identical car, then the dealer I bought it from. So the dealer I saw had it originally found the bad head gasket and sold it to the other dealer. I would have known something was wrong if I knew it was the same car as the other dealer, but for $1000 less. I called the dealer up and complained. He said "Sometimes when you spend three to four thousand on a car, shit happens."

I sued him. We settled out of court for the cost of the head job. The lawyer said he was cursing her out as he signed it! :D

I will never purchase another warranty on anything ever again.

[Logan]

I will never purchase another warranty on anything ever again.

That's a start.

[wade moore]

Wade it's a big part of what you're saying. I know you're saying more and you're trying to help him but the fundamental underlying theme is that he shouldn't be upset as well as he should take what he can get.

I agree he should move on from here but believe that he has every reason to be upset.

At himself, for the drivel he believed without reading what was in writing.

That's my point.

Yes, they may have been shady (although I question that at this point since M GO BLUE cannot seem to understand the way this contract works even though I've explained it MANY times), yes they may have even lied, but in the end, as I said many posts ago, he could be upset that these people lied to him and so he had to leave and buy it elsewhere. Instead, he believed their drivel without reading what was in writing and is now upset that he got exactly what he signed off on.

I'm not condoning the salesman's actions if he did indeed lie. Far from it, that is inexcusable. However, in the end MGB has to recognize something is funny when he hears it and that either these people are lying or incompetent (not hard to believe with BB) and look at what is in writing before plopping down over 50% of the purchase (which again, besides all of this, I think is a very questionable decision even if it worked the way he thought it would).

[wade moore]

Actually it is perfectly acceptable behavior in sales, whether by the used car salesman that tells you that the little beauty you're buying was driven to and from church by a grandma, a guy in a yellow polo shirt and brown pants that he could never get laid in selling DVD unit or a telemarketer selling worthless junk out of a subbasement somewhere and taking old ladies life savings.

The last time I was this upset happened to be over a lie surrounding a warranty on a car I purchased. The salesman happened to not have a copy of the plan on him, but assured me that any problems with the engine or trans were covered. I specifically asked about head gaskets, which I knew the Olds Quad 4 had problems with. He assured me that they were covered. I had seen an identical car listed for $1000 more at another dealer, but it had been sold already. They guy told me that this woman traded it in, blah blah blah. I mentioned the other dealer and he said he had heard they were a good dealer, but he had never done any business with them. He said he had sent out for a new title on the car so he didn't have it there. It was a good deal on the exact car I had been looking for so I bought it and the warranty. I drove the car home and checked the oil again... There was water in it. Bad head gasket. Guess what the warranty didn't cover?

When I got the title from the state it listed the woman who had previously owned it, then the dealer that listed the identical car, then the dealer I bought it from. So the dealer I saw had it originally found the bad head gasket and sold it to the other dealer. I would have known something was wrong if I knew it was the same car as the other dealer, but for $1000 less. I called the dealer up and complained. He said "Sometimes when you spend three to four thousand on a car, shit happens."

I sued him. We settled out of court for the cost of the head job. The lawyer said he was cursing her out as he signed it! :D

I will never purchase another warranty on anything ever again.

Wow.

Seriously.

The problem here is not with Best Buy.

You need to not walk away without reading stuff. Seriously dude. I'm not trying to argue or fight with you on this. You will go much farther in life if you deal this way with everything.

Side Note: FWIW, I did not sell anything in my telemarketing.

[Axxon]

Actually it is perfectly acceptable behavior in sales, whether by the used car salesman that tells you that the little beauty you're buying was driven to and from church by a grandma, a guy in a yellow polo shirt and brown pants that he could never get laid in selling DVD unit or a telemarketer selling worthless junk out of a subbasement somewhere and taking old ladies life savings.


No sir. It's a perfectly accepted behavior in sales not a perfectly acceptable one and the sooner we stop accepting it the better off everyone but the sleezy salesmen will be better off.

I've worked retail and never resorted to this tactic so it's not necessary, it's not ethical and it's not acceptable.

[Logan]

No sir. It's a perfectly accepted behavior in sales not a perfectly acceptable one and the sooner we stop accepting it the better off everyone but the sleezy salesmen will be better off.

I've worked retail and never resorted to this tactic so it's not necessary, it's not ethical and it's not acceptable.

No offense to anyone who works at Best Buy, as I'm not trying to imply that everyone is like this (just like I'm sure some on here aren't implying that every BB worker is a lying weasel), but I know 2 guys who worked at BB during college, and they were complete morons. I wouldn't doubt for a second that those who are "being sleazy" are just following the orders of their managers. Just like they tell them to push the warranties (since we all know the profit margin on them), I'm sure they tell them how to sell them, and what the company will cover. And I sure as hell know that my two friends weren't reading the fine print on the things they were selling.

[Axxon]

At himself, for the drivel he believed without reading what was in writing.

That's my point.

Yes, they may have been shady (although I question that at this point since M GO BLUE cannot seem to understand the way this contract works even though I've explained it MANY times), yes they may have even lied, but in the end, as I said many posts ago, he could be upset that these people lied to him and so he had to leave and buy it elsewhere. Instead, he believed their drivel without reading what was in writing and is now upset that he got exactly what he signed off on.

I'm not condoning the salesman's actions if he did indeed lie. Far from it, that is inexcusable. However, in the end MGB has to recognize something is funny when he hears it and that either these people are lying or incompetent (not hard to believe with BB) and look at what is in writing before plopping down over 50% of the purchase (which again, besides all of this, I think is a very questionable decision even if it worked the way he thought it would).

It sounds like with this post we're in agreement> I believe the customer is responsible for making sure that he knows what he's getting but the salesman does bear criticism too. That's all I was saying. :)

[Axxon]

No offense to anyone who works at Best Buy, as I'm not trying to imply that everyone is like this (just like I'm sure some on here aren't implying that every BB worker is a lying weasel), but I know 2 guys who worked at BB during college, and they were complete morons. I wouldn't doubt for a second that those who are "being sleazy" are just following the orders of their managers. Just like they tell them to push the warranties (since we all know the profit margin on them), I'm sure they tell them how to sell them, and what the company will cover. And I sure as hell know that my two friends weren't reading the fine print on the things they were selling.

From what I've read I'd say it's more than likely just following orders but never having worked there I don't know for sure. Seems odd though that several of us have heard the spiel in different areas of the country. That sounds more like management than sleazy salesmen.

[Logan]

From what I've read I'd say it's more than likely just following orders but never having worked there I don't know for sure. Seems odd though that several of us have heard the spiel in different areas of the country. That sounds more like management than sleazy salesmen.

I suggest you do as some others have said and write to senior management at the company explaining what's going on. Some of them might be reputable businessmen(-women) and actually not want to see such a practice that pisses off the customer for some extra revenue. You might think that they get so much e-mail that they would never read/reply to yours, but usually all the complaints go to and then stop at the store level, so you might get a real answer.

[Axxon]

I suggest you do as some others have said and write to senior management at the company explaining what's going on. Some of them might be reputable businessmen(-women) and actually not want to see such a practice that pisses off the customer for some extra revenue. You might think that they get so much e-mail that they would never read/reply to yours, but usually all the complaints go to and then stop at the store level, so you might get a real answer.

Well, when I moved out here I mostly shop at Frys but I have noticed the best buys out here anyway aren't that aggressive so either I'm lucky or already the company has heard the complaints and is doing something about it.

[14ers]

I still do not believe that Best Buy has not offered you an equilivant replacement. You also never mentioned your exact Panasonic model. Any chance you are trying to replace your 3 year old 40gb DVR with a 250gb HDD DVR?

My gues is you purchased the Panasonic DMR-HS2 Progressive-Scan DVD Recorder/PVR with 40 GB Hard Drive in 2003 after Best Buy had already discontinued the item. Big savings.

Check this out. on sale for $350.19
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7726632&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat13900050019&id=1140391906760

Toshiba 160GB DVR/Progressive-Scan DVD-R/-RW/RAM Recorder Combo
Model: RD-XS35

[Vinatieri for Prez]

At himself, for the drivel he believed without reading what was in writing.

That's my point.

Yes, they may have been shady (although I question that at this point since M GO BLUE cannot seem to understand the way this contract works even though I've explained it MANY times), yes they may have even lied, but in the end, as I said many posts ago, he could be upset that these people lied to him and so he had to leave and buy it elsewhere. Instead, he believed their drivel without reading what was in writing and is now upset that he got exactly what he signed off on.

I'm not condoning the salesman's actions if he did indeed lie. Far from it, that is inexcusable. However, in the end MGB has to recognize something is funny when he hears it and that either these people are lying or incompetent (not hard to believe with BB) and look at what is in writing before plopping down over 50% of the purchase (which again, besides all of this, I think is a very questionable decision even if it worked the way he thought it would).

Wow, nice contradictory post.

By the way, in some instances, regardless of what the warranty/contract says (including non-waiver provisions), the lying salesman can be deemed to have waived/estopped/fraudulently induced the written provisions of the agreement. So, actually from a legal standpoint, a consumer is on very good footing to argue that he shouldn't have to be bound by the written contract when he is told contrary stuff.

[wade moore]

Wow, nice contradictory post.

By the way, in some instances, regardless of what the warranty/contract says (including non-waiver provisions), the lying salesman can be deemed to have waived/estopped/fraudulently induced the written provisions of the agreement. So, actually from a legal standpoint, a consumer is on very good footing to argue that he shouldn't have to be bound by the written contract when he is told contrary stuff.

Umm, how exactly was it contradictory?

And I still submit to you that from what MGB has said, I still don't think I've heard anything that the salesman has said that contradicts the contract. It may leave out details or not tell all of the story, but in his specific case I have not heard anything that he states the original salesman said that contradicts what the contract says.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Umm, how exactly was it contradictory?

And I still submit to you that from what MGB has said, I still don't think I've heard anything that the salesman has said that contradicts the contract. It may leave out details or not tell all of the story, but in his specific case I have not heard anything that he states the original salesman said that contradicts what the contract says.

You continue to say it's inexcusable for the employees to deceive but in the end you conclude it's M's fault for his predicament, thus making an excuse for the deceit. That's about as contradictory as it gets.

I also point out that you have taken the same position with M's story and the others where out and out lies were alleged. So as far as the other cases including completely contrary statements, the law will often render the written parts nonbinding. I will grant you that M's case is not as strong as one where the written contract says one thing and the verbal statement says the complete opposite, but I've made better fraud/misrepresentation cases with less.

[wade moore]

You continue to say it's inexcusable for the employees to deceive but in the end you conclude it's M's fault for his predicament, thus making an excuse for the deceit. That's about as contradictory as it gets.

I also point out that you have taken the same position with M's story and the others where out and out lies were alleged. So as far as the other cases including completely contrary statements, the law will often render the written parts nonbinding. I will grant you that M's case is not as strong as one where the written contract says one thing and the verbal statement says the complete opposite, but I've made better fraud/misrepresentation cases with less.

I'm far from argueing the legal aspects of the issue. I'm argueing the common sense of the issue.

Simple. Is it wrong for the Best Buy guy to deceive? Yes. Is it naive of MGB (and others) to just believe the Best Buy Shmuck and buy without reading the contract? Yes.

From a common sense non-legal aspect, these do not contradict. I'm not anywhere close to trying to argue some legal merit and whether someone could fight this thing in court.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Alright, now that you've answered both questions in the affirmative, which is more morally (not legally) repugnant - someone who deceives or someone who did not read a written contract AFTER being told what it supposedly covers? I'd say the former is the obvious answer and that is the reason why M or others should not have received the bad rap you gave them.

And even in your common sense logic, there is still a contradiction. You want to hold M and others to the written contract even though you say it's wrong for BB to lie about the written contract -- clearly the most morally reprehensible conduct -- you lay no ultimate blame on BB for its actions even though it was its very actions that induced M and others to sign the contract that you want to hold them to. This actually is the very reason why BB's legal position is a loser as well.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I'm starting to agree with Wade. I must be the stupidest idiot on the planet to not have had the warranty in writing when I asked the woman on the phone at 888-Best Buy if what I had been told really was the actual fact. I figured if it was confirmed by a second representatve of Best Buy that they must actually know what they are talking about. Why would they ever decieve me? The customer is the livelyhood of their store. It is much more likely that I was told accurate information, that the salesman said "If the unit fails in the next four years we will try to fix it and if we cannot, or choose not to we will not give you a new unit or your original back, but give you store credit toward the purchase of a new one if we actually carry it, sucker!" I must have simply misheard him.

Now since that is out of the way... I have absolutely noting I can think of that I would need from Best Buy. I live in a one room studio apartment, so multiple televisions and stereos would be useless (I even donated my portable stereo to my school theatre department, since they had none.) Best Buy is unlikely to carry any of the music I may be interested in (out of print 70's jazz/funk vinyl?) and I don't buy many DVD's (I use netflix) If I give my kid a $329 gift card her mother will know something is up. So at best I can give her $150 on a gift card. That leaves me with nearly $180 to blow on useless crap. Is there anything new and wonderous that I do not know about that they may sell at this amazing and helpful store?

[14ers]

M GO BLUE!!! (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/member.php?u=4507)

I still want to know what Panasonic model you returned and what DVR model that Best Buy offered to replace it with. And, please include what Best Buy store are you dealing with?

Again check this out as a possible replacement

Check this out. on sale for $350.19
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7726632&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat13900050019&id=1140391906760

Toshiba 160GB DVR/Progressive-Scan DVD-R/-RW/RAM Recorder Combo
Model: RD-XS35



Here is Best Buys current extended warranty policy available online. You should of at least been offered a replacement DVR, before they offered you a store credit. (Best Buy Store Policy.)
Parts and Labour Coverage
We cover all the parts and labour necessary to return your product to factory specifications. If we cannot repair your product, we will provide a replacement.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

M GO BLUE!!! (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/member.php?u=4507)

I still want to know what Panasonic model you returned and what DVR model that Best Buy offered to replace it with. And, please include what Best Buy store are you dealing with?


The Best Buy Store I am dealing with is in NYC on 23rd & 6th.

The model I purchased and took in for service (never to be seen again) was a Panasonic DMR-E80H

The units that were offered to me in "exchange" for the Panasonic I brought in and over $100 out of my pocket were the Toshiba that you listed and or the Panasonic DMR-EH75VS. They also said I could get any of the current Panasonic DVD recorders that do not contain a hard drive.

The reviews of the Toshiba model i read were mixed at best. Some said it was great. Many said it was a piece of junk that had more bugs than Motel 6. One of my favorite reviews included this line The feeling I got from this unit was that Toshiba tried to implement as many features as possible (by as many different people) without making any attempt to integrate them.

The Panasonic DMR-EH75VS seems like a good unit. It is very similarly compared to the DMR-E80H that I had, even having the same size hard drive (80 GB is fine as far as I'm concerned.) The problem I have with it is that I would never purchase a DVD/VCR combo unit, so why would I purchase a DVD/VCR/HDD unit? And the "deal" that I was offered by the store manager was to use the $329 credit toward the purchase of that unit priced at $499. He would, as a courtesy to me because I have been through so much with this, take an additional $50 off the $499. On the website this model happens to be on sale for $50 off, so I see where the manager recieved the authority to make such an offer. So my total out the door on a model I would not purchase if I was looking would be about $130.

(I am fortunate to have met a man as powerful as Todd. Maybe, if I stood at a crosswalk with him long enough he may be able to change the light so I may cross! If fact... If I were to stand with him facing east very late at night he may be able to make the sun rise!) :D

But why give Best Buy $130 for a unit I wouldn't buy? If they would have given me an even exchange, I would have taken it and sold it on ebay, then purchased the model I would purchase (basically the same thing without the VCR, but a bigger hard drive.) The price on both models is the same. If Best Buy offered this model in the US, I would have bit the bullet and gave them the $130-something for the new model. But I can't see paying them $130 for something I would then turn around and try selling on ebay because I do not want it. (Wade will now say that i am all in a huff because it is a matter of taste, but I would hope he would not smile and accept the keys to a new Hyundai in exchange for a Corvette that had a crack in the windshield.)

My head would probably just explode if I accepted Todd's "deal," and they would try to sell me an extended warranty.

[14ers]

Thanks for the update.

I thought it was very strange that Best Buy did not try to first replace your unit with a comparable one in stock. It is good to know that they first offered yto replace your 80gb Panasonic with a 160gb Toshiba, before breaking out the Store Credit.

I understand your decision to turn down the Toshiba as brand loyalty runs high in electronics. Me, I would of taken the new Toshiba and called it a day.

[wade moore]

Alright, now that you've answered both questions in the affirmative, which is more morally (not legally) repugnant - someone who deceives or someone who did not read a written contract AFTER being told what it supposedly covers? I'd say the former is the obvious answer and that is the reason why M or others should not have received the bad rap you gave them.

And even in your common sense logic, there is still a contradiction. You want to hold M and others to the written contract even though you say it's wrong for BB to lie about the written contract -- clearly the most morally reprehensible conduct -- you lay no ultimate blame on BB for its actions even though it was its very actions that induced M and others to sign the contract that you want to hold them to. This actually is the very reason why BB's legal position is a loser as well.

Thoughts like this are are what drive me crazy about our society - they always blame someone else and can't take responsibility for themselves. It's never their fault and someone else always caused every bad thing to happen to them.

[rkmsuf]

You are just a pawn in Best Buy's chess game.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Thoughts like this are are what drive me crazy about our society - they always blame someone else and can't take responsibility for themselves. It's never their fault and someone else always caused every bad thing to happen to them.

HAA! Actually, it's your viewpoint that drives me crazy about society today, where lying and deceit are given a pass time after time.

Your position is actually what liers at BB are counting on.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

And now that 14ers has posted the "written" language of the warranty where all it says is we will provide a "replacement," I think the argument is pretty good that terminology is open to a lot of interpretation, one in which the verbal statements by BB people should actually be considered by a consumer in determining what the warranty actually means.

[wade moore]

HAA! Actually, it's your viewpoint that drives me crazy about society today, where lying and deceit are given a pass time after time.

Your position is actually what liers at BB are counting on.

*sigh*. No, if people took my position, then BB wouldn't sell bad warranties, despite what their people say. It takes the moron in the blue shirt COMPLETELY out of the equation. It gives no one a pass, it disregards them from the situation as if they weren't even there.

And now that 14ers has posted the "written" language of the warranty where all it says is we will provide a "replacement," I think the argument is pretty good that terminology is open to a lot of interpretation, one in which the verbal statements by BB people should actually be considered by a consumer in determining what the warranty actually means.


So umm, I posted the verbiage like middle of the day yesterday. I've been talking about it this whole time. It completely jives with what happened in MGB's situation.. it says they provide a replacement or store credit at the store's discretion.

[BrianD]

And now that 14ers has posted the "written" language of the warranty where all it says is we will provide a "replacement," I think the argument is pretty good that terminology is open to a lot of interpretation, one in which the verbal statements by BB people should actually be considered by a consumer in determining what the warranty actually means.

I couldn't find 14ers quote on the BB website, but I did find this which seems clear:

Product Replacement Plan (PRP)
Don't get it fixed. Get it replaced. This plan ensures a full replacement of covered products. Features include:
Easy fulfillment
Flexibility - we'll give you a Best Buy Gift Card to choose your own replacement
Nationwide redemption

[BrianD]

And now that 14ers has posted the "written" language of the warranty where all it says is we will provide a "replacement," I think the argument is pretty good that terminology is open to a lot of interpretation, one in which the verbal statements by BB people should actually be considered by a consumer in determining what the warranty actually means.

I'm also torn on the idea that statements by BB people should be considered by a consumer in determining what the warranty actually means. In my experience, the BB people can't be expected to know if they carry a certain item even if they are standing in the isle containing the item. They surely can't be expected to make a legal interpretation on the language in their contracts.

While I know all of this, I'm not sure the general consumer knows all of this.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Me, I would of taken the new Toshiba and called it a day.
Would you have paid them $100 for the Toshiba?

[wade moore]

I'm also torn on the idea that statements by BB people should be considered by a consumer in determining what the warranty actually means. In my experience, the BB people can't be expected to know if they carry a certain item even if they are standing in the isle containing the item. They surely can't be expected to make a legal interpretation on the language in their contracts.

While I know all of this, I'm not sure the general consumer knows all of this.

Well, and just again from a common sense standpoint, when it comes time to fulfill your contract I have to imagine (sounds like Vinatieri knows better than me) that you're fighting a tough battle to prove what you were told. If we just based legal cases on what people say they were told, that is a scary, scary America imo.

[rkmsuf]

Would you have paid them $100 for the Toshiba?

I'm almost tempted to pay you 100 dollars to delete this thread and calm down.

[BrianD]

Well, and just again from a common sense standpoint, when it comes time to fulfill your contract I have to imagine (sounds like Vinatieri knows better than me) that you're fighting a tough battle to prove what you were told. If we just based legal cases on what people say they were told, that is a scary, scary America imo.

There is a difference between holding BB employees to promises they make, and having them explain the verbage that is in their own contract. It would be natural, in the event of confusing language, to ask the sales person to explain away the confusion. The typical BB employee won't be able to do this, but the typical customer won't realize that fact.

[kingfc22]

Man, this thread just keeps going and going and going.

[wade moore]

There is a difference between holding BB employees to promises they make, and having them explain the verbage that is in their own contract. It would be natural, in the event of confusing language, to ask the sales person to explain away the confusion. The typical BB employee won't be able to do this, but the typical customer won't realize that fact.

Can't disagree with you there.

[Ksyrup]

I'm almost tempted to pay you 100 dollars to delete this thread and calm down.


I are pissed!

[rkmsuf]

I are pissed!

he's not taking this standing down

[BrianD]

The bottom line is that you shouldn't buy/sign any contract that you don't understand. That understanding should come from your own reading of the contract, but in a pinch you can probably be reasonably safe if you have the contract explained by someone you trust to be knowledgeable. A BB employee probably does not fall into this last category.

[wade moore]

The bottom line is that you shouldn't buy/sign any contract that you don't understand. That understanding should come from your own reading of the contract, but in a pinch you can probably be reasonably safe if you have the contract explained by someone you trust to be knowledgeable. A BB employee probably does not fall into this last category.

Yes yes, this is what I've been trying to say all along.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I'm almost tempted to pay you 100 dollars to delete this thread and calm down.

I will accept this offer. If I recieve $100 fom you in my paypal account I will delete this thread and make everybody lose posts. :D

[Ksyrup]

He needs to pay each person $1 for every lost post.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

He needs to pay each person $1 for every lost post.

You could easily make up lost posts by starting a thread on what an idiot with anger issues I am...

[Ksyrup]

I'd rather have the money.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I'd rather have the money.

How about store credit at Best Buy?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yes yes, this is what I've been trying to say all along.

Then the BB employee should tell the consumer he isn't qualified to do so and not answer questions about the contract; just simply tell the consumer to read the contract. Otherwise, by responding with such assuredness they invite the reliance by the consumer, which is what I've been saying all along. Look, the bottom line is that BB is taking advantage of the confusion and/or deceit and that is just wrong.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Well, and just again from a common sense standpoint, when it comes time to fulfill your contract I have to imagine (sounds like Vinatieri knows better than me) that you're fighting a tough battle to prove what you were told. If we just based legal cases on what people say they were told, that is a scary, scary America imo.

Yes, you are right that evidence of what was said is key. However, faced with a he said/she said, the judge or jury has to pick who to believe. I'm guessing many would believe the consumer.

But also too by the way, virtually every case comes down to what people say they were told. It thus always comes down to who the judge/jury believes.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Man, this thread just keeps going and going and going.

I hate BB and other stores that pull this crap. That's why I won't give a pass on it.

Plus, I'm trying to up my post count.:)

Anyways, seeing how you've had enough, I'm moving on.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Just to wrap this up...

I wrote a nice email to the Best Buy executives and it was forwarded by Brian Dunn's office to someone who could help me, and did.

I used the $329 to purchase an 80gb ipod. Best Buy is sending me a check for the extra $21.68 that I paid for the ipod, plus a gift certificate for $50.

I also got an apology. :D

I got one hell of a laugh too when they asked if I would like a three-year service plan on the ipod!

[Flasch186]

would you care to put your email, the one you wrote up here? out of curiosity sake.

[Joe]

I worked at best buy for a few months during college. yes, they suck.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

would you care to put your email, the one you wrote up here? out of curiosity sake.
No problem!

Mr. Dunn,

I have purchased many items from Best Buy and had never encountered
and major problems until now. In 2004 I purchased a Panasonic
DMR-E80H DVD recorder with built in hard drive. The salesman stressed
the importance of purchasing the PSP, claiming if the unit failed and
Best Buy could not repair it they would replace it with a new model
for an even exchange. I was skeptical of this claim and brought up
that the new model cost twice as much as I was paying for the floor
model. He informed me that the price of the replacement model would
not matter, since to effectively replace the unit would require
replacement with a model of comparable features. When I brought to
his attention that the extra $200 for the warranty would bring the
price close to the price of the new model he continued pressing how it
was still cheaper to purchase the older floor model with the four year
PSP, and repeated the claim of replacement with a comparable model
regardless of the cost. I did not purchase the PSP initially, but
called 888-BEST BUY a few days later for clarification on the terms of
the PSP. The representative was very nice and confirmed what the
salesman had said about the PSP. I purchased the PSP based on the
information given by your salesman and confirmed by the telephone
associate.

Two years later, upon failure of the unit I find the PSP had been
grossly misrepresented by both associates. Had I been aware the PSP
would not replace the unit in the event of failure, but would provide
the sale price in credit toward another purchase I would never have
paid an additional $200 for a PSP on a unit that cost $329.
Unfortunately I based my purchase of the PSP on incorrect information
provided by your associates.

Once I had been informed my unit would not be repaired, but an
exchange would take place I called 888-BEST BUY to speak with customer
service in regard to my exchange options, since I found Best Buy does
not carry the current comparable Panasonic model in the U.S. I asked
about the remaining two years on the PSP and whether they could be
transferred to any model I would accept in trade and was informed that
it was nontransferable, but that since there was two years left I
would receive a prorated portion of the value in credit. I have since
found this to be incorrect also.

I had the opportunity to speak with the store manager, Todd. He
offered an exchange for a model listed on your website for $499 if I
would pay the difference. Todd did not even acknowledge an
understanding of my problem with the misrepresentation of the PSP and
his attitude was extremely condescending, increasing my frustration
with this entire process. I informed him I found paying extra for a
model I wouldn't purchase in the first place unacceptable. He then
generously offered to take an additional $50 off the $499 for me,
which turned out not to be as generous an offer as he made appear
since the model is on sale on the website for the same price he was
willing to offer.

Once again I called 888-BEST BUY in an attempt to determine what my
options were, since the only option offered at the store was $329 in
store credit, which I could use toward a different model. The
associate was very nice and offered to split the difference, sending
me a $65 gift card. Her supervisor (Augie) then informed me I would
have to purchase the model before I would receive the $65 in yet more
store credit, not even toward the purchase price! With much of the
same disinterested, condescending tone as the manager he continually
repeated the same information and asked "Is there anything else I can
help you with?"

As it stands, I have had to pay $450 elsewhere to replace a model I
was misled to believe would be covered by the PSP sold by Best Buy.
If I had not been mislead into purchasing the PSP I would have my
original Panasonic unit, which was still usable with the exception of
the failed DVD burner drive (there was a fine HDD recorder in the unit
as well.) I would also have the $200 paid for the PSP, which could be
applied toward either repairing the unit, or purchasing the
replacement. All that has been offered by Best Buy is $329 in store
credit, which did nothing to replace the unit I purchased. I informed
the store I would have reluctantly accepted this amount if my unit
would be returned to me, but they reused that as well.

I hope you can understand why I am very upset over the original
misrepresentation of the PSP. In addition, I am extremely
dissatisfied with the complete lack of acknowledgement by any
associate of Best Buy (besides the one nice CSR) that there is a
problem. I do not wish for anything unfair in compensation, but would
like recognition that there is a problem. Until I receive any
acknowledgement I cannot accept the store credit as offered, as the
idea of shopping at a store that treats its customers in such a manner
is extremely unpleasant.


Thank you,

[jbmagic]

Did you send any documents with this letter?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Did you send any documents with this letter?

Nope. The gentleman with whom I delt looked me up in their system and had everything.

[rkmsuf]

Just to wrap this up...

I wrote a nice email to the Best Buy executives and it was forwarded by Brian Dunn's office to someone who could help me, and did.

I used the $329 to purchase an 80gb ipod. Best Buy is sending me a check for the extra $21.68 that I paid for the ipod, plus a gift certificate for $50.

I also got an apology. :D

I got one hell of a laugh too when they asked if I would like a three-year service plan on the ipod!

Is it wrong that I'm hoping your ipod breaks?

[Ksyrup]

After all that, you settled for an extra $21 plus a throw-away gift certificate?

I'm sorry, but based on all of your posts in this thread, you were duty-bound to press for what you originally claimed was "owed" to you. Instead, you essentially confirmed what we all said you were due, plus you squeezed them for the "I'm a whiny bitch so they gave me this GC to shut the fuck up" door prize.

Looks like you won this one!!! :rolleyes:

[rkmsuf]

After all that, you settled for an extra $21 plus a throw-away gift certificate?

I'm sorry, but based on all of your posts in this thread, you were duty-bound to press for what you originally claimed was "owed" to you. Instead, you essentially confirmed what we all said you were due, plus you squeezed them for the "I'm a whiny bitch so they gave me this GC to shut the fuck up" door prize.

Looks like you won this one!!! :rolleyes:

He can claim a moral victory.

[Ksyrup]

For what? He didn't get what he wanted or even an acknowledgement that he was right. He got the money they initially offered him and a little extra unrelated to his main argument about the warranty.

[wade moore]

After all that, you settled for an extra $21 plus a throw-away gift certificate?

I'm sorry, but based on all of your posts in this thread, you were duty-bound to press for what you originally claimed was "owed" to you. Instead, you essentially confirmed what we all said you were due, plus you squeezed them for the "I'm a whiny bitch so they gave me this GC to shut the fuck up" door prize.

Looks like you won this one!!! :rolleyes:

I heart Ksyrup.

[rkmsuf]

For what? He didn't get what he wanted or even an acknowledgement that he was right. He got the money they initially offered him and a little extra unrelated to his main argument about the warranty.

guy answered his email.

that's something.

[Ksyrup]

guy answered his email.

that's something.


Yes, and on top of that he got approximately $400 in Best Buy Money that he has repeatedly told us in this thread is worthless to him since there's nothing at Best Buy he wants.

[rkmsuf]

Yes, and on top of that he got approximately $400 in Best Buy Money that he has repeatedly told us in this thread is worthless to him since there's nothing at Best Buy he wants.


see, there's always a bright side to these things.

he said he got an apology. I'm sure it was a darned good one too.

[Butter]

Yes, and on top of that he got approximately $400 in Best Buy Money that he has repeatedly told us in this thread is worthless to him since there's nothing at Best Buy he wants.

Hey, I could buy 300 chicken sandwiches at McDonald's and get that too.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

To those who got a laugh and put me in the "whiny bitch" category...

Getting what I had been promised was not going to happen. They lied to me and I was stupid enough to think that information confirmed be another associate in another location was sufficient enough. I should have taken the time to sit down and prove the sales associate and the CSR liars, but I did not.

What infuriated me was that there was absolutely no acknowledgement bu anyone at Best Buy that I may have been naive, but right. I found it ridiculous that the best option according to them was to spend an extra $130 to purchase something I would not purchase in the first place.

If I had not recieved any response I would have accepted the $329 in credit just to put the whole thing in the past and get anything in return. If I could go back in time, I would have still purchased the same unit, but not the PSP.

There was nothing at Best Buy that I needed. Did I need the ipod? No. Would I have bought it on my own? No. But I at least got an acknowledgement from someone at Best Buy that luying about terms on a PSP is not appropriate, and I got better value on the PSP.

As for hoping that the ipod breaks, why not go a step further and wish a cripling back injury upon me that leaves me in almost constant pain?

[Desnudo]

see, there's always a bright side to these things.

he said he got an apology. I'm sure it was a darned good one too.

I would never doubt the sincerety of a 17 year old clerk

[rkmsuf]

As for hoping that the ipod breaks, why not go a step further and wish a cripling back injury upon me that leaves me in almost constant pain?

Now that would just be piling on.

[Desnudo]

As for hoping that the ipod breaks, why not go a step further and wish a cripling back injury upon me that leaves me in almost constant pain?

isn't there a few steps in-between? How about a coldache the next time you eat ice cream?

[wade moore]

isn't there a few steps in-between? How about a coldache the next time you eat ice cream?

What the heck is a coldache? Brainfreeze?

[Desnudo]

yes, didn't realize it was a regional dialect

[Ksyrup]

But I at least got an acknowledgement from someone at Best Buy that luying about terms on a PSP is not appropriate, and I got better value on the PSP.

Either you got an email that no one at Best Buy actually approved before it was sent, or you just took "we're sorry for your inconvenience and/or poor shopping experience" as something far more than it was meant to be.

But if you feel vindicated, I guess that's all that matters. To you.

[sterlingice]

What the heck is a coldache? Brainfreeze?

Yeah, I've always heard of it as brainfreeze or an ice cream headache.

SI

[Ksyrup]

May 25 2007 4:15 AM
Blumenthal sues Best Buy for 'bait-and-switch' tactics


By Dirk Perrefort
THE NEWS-TIMES


<TABLE class=photo_box height=150 width=150 align=right><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>http://www.newstimeslive.com/photo.php?photofile=bestbuy.TIF.jpg&date=2007-05-25&newwidth=300

High-definition TVs are on display at a Best Buy store. Connecticut?s attorney general announced a lawsuit Thursday against the nation‘s largest consumer electronics retailer of deceiving customers with in-store computer kiosks and overcharging them.</SPAN>



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- endphoto -->DANBURY -- Some area residents who say they've been swindled by Best Buy said Thursday they will never shop at the electronics store again.

Carl Goulart of Danbury said he was angry Thursday when he returned an $800 laptop he purchased three months ago with an extended warranty that cost him $150.

The screen was no longer working, he said, but store officials said it wasn't covered.

"I couldn't believe it," he said. "They said they could fix the screen for $1,000, and that's more than I paid for the computer. I don't think I'm ever going to shop here again."

State Attorney General Richard Blumenthal announced Thursday that he filed a lawsuit against the electronics store for "bait-and- switch" tactics concerning its Internet site.

Blumenthal said he has also received several complaints about Best Buy's extended warranties and is investigating the matter.

Jorge Osorio of Waterbury said he purchased an iPod from the store on International Road last year for $200, along with an extended service plan for $30. He returned the unit to the store Thursday because it stopped working, but store officials told him the warranty was void because there was a small scratch on the screen.
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<!-- endphoto -->

"I'm not buying anything from them again," he said. "The store should be shut down. I'm going to call the attorney general's office about this."

Blumenthal said the store, which offers an Internet lowest price guarantee, lured people into the store with low prices on its Internet site, then showed customers a Web site available at kiosks in the store that presented higher prices.

Sales clerks would then tell customers they must have misread the sales price they saw on the Internet or that the special price had expired.

"Best Buy used in-store kiosks to conceal lower online prices and renege on its price match guarantee," Blumenthal said. "Consumers seeking bargains were led to believe that lower online prices had expired or never existed. Best Buy treated its customers like suckers, not patrons to be prized."

The lawsuit seeks refunds for customers and civil penalties.

Katie Simonitsch of New Fairfield, who was shopping for a digital camera at Best Buy on Thursday, said she's happy state officials are looking into the matter.

"I would probably be the one to fall for something like that," she said. "I'm sure it's bad for business, especially considering that their competition, Circuit City, is right down the street. That's where I'm going next."

Despite numerous attempts, officials with Best Buy's public relations department could not be reached for comment Thursday.

Material from the Associated Press was used in this story.
</B></SPAN></B>Contact Dirk Perrefort at
[email protected] or at (203) 731-3358

[Alan T]

Interesting article, I remember buying my Dvd player about a year ago due to it being on sale online at a great price. When I went into the store, they stated that the online store was a different "store" so to speak so they had different prices. I flat out told them if I couldn't buy it for the price they listed online then I wasn't going to buy it. The Sales person had to actually get management approval to mark it down to the price listed online, but they did and I took it home. Haven't had any problems or complaints with it since I bought it however.

[Ksyrup]

It is interesting because that's precisely how they operate - they are 2 different business entities. That's why you can order CDs through the website that the physical locations cannot get for you in-store. They either have them in stock, or you have to buy them through the the website. At least, that's how I've heard it explained numerous times.

And with electronics, they regularly post "online" prices that are different than the in-store prices...but I just assumed they were offering a better price in order to get me to do business online, not that they were trying to lure me into the store to unwittingly buy the same product for a higher cost...?

Where this gets sketchy is the fact that they are claiming them to be separate businesses, yet they have that online purchase/in-store pick-up service. So theoretically, you could get the online price but go pick it up in-store, whereas if you just went to the store, you'd pay a higher price.

[Butter]

I actually got them to refund me $50 on a TV a while back because their online price dropped on the item I bought less than a week after I bought it from the store. Had no problems. Have never really had any problems with BB.

[sterlingice]

And I'm sure the class action lawsuit where everyone gets 20% off coupons and the lawyers walk away with millions will be a win for everyone.

That said, BB needs to be taken to task for their shady business practices.

SI

[Toddzilla]

I actually got them to refund me $50 on a TV a while back because their online price dropped on the item I bought less than a week after I bought it from the store. Had no problems. Have never really had any problems with BB.I'm in the same boat - never really had a problem with BB specifically. I've run into my share of moron employees, but they're everywhere :( . I'll make sure to pay better attention to internet vs. in-store pricing now.

[BrianD]

I had a slight intervet/in-store pricing problem with BB, but I thought they eventually handled it well. I was planning on buying a new receiver and found one on sale online. I wanted it right away, so I ran down to the nearest store. The price was higher there and the cashier couldn't find the sale price online (it only showed up during the online checkout. He told me that I couldn't get the price I was asking for, but if I brought in proof of the sale, they would match the price. I printed out the online price and brought it in the next day. They did match the price.

[Fighter of Foo]

So that's where the bait & switch part comes in...

[Ksyrup]

I had a slight intervet/in-store pricing problem with BB, but I thought they eventually handled it well. I was planning on buying a new receiver and found one on sale online. I wanted it right away, so I ran down to the nearest store. The price was higher there and the cashier couldn't find the sale price online (it only showed up during the online checkout. He told me that I couldn't get the price I was asking for, but if I brought in proof of the sale, they would match the price. I printed out the online price and brought it in the next day. They did match the price.

Yeah, what I've noticed they do is not give you the price when you pull up the item, but tell you to put it in the "basket" and the price will show up there. But again, my thought on how that worked was that I was getting an online deal that I couldn't get at the store - I don't think they tell you that, but that's how I took it.

[Ksyrup]

Looking at their site right now, there are a couple of different ways they show prices:

<TABLE class=Legal cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=205 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=Legal vAlign=top width=90><!-- B:089 --><!-- E:089 --></TD><TD width=5>
</TD><TD class=Legal vAlign=top width=110><!-- B:0LG --><!-- B:0LC -->Our Price: <!-- B:0LI -->$37.99
<!-- E:0LI -->
<!-- E:0LC --><!-- E:0LG --><INPUT type=hidden value=1 name=6184764> http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/en_US/images/global/buttons/btn_addtocart_20040803.gif (javascript:fnAddToCart('1067389784805','6184764'))
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Reg. Price: <!-- B:0LI -->$399.99
<!-- E:0LI -->
On Sale Now:
See price in cart (javascript:popUp('olspage.jsp?id=pcat17053&type=page&skuId=6389561&productId=1077625490494','MiniCart','4','0');)
<!-- E:0LC --><!-- E:0LG --><INPUT type=hidden value=1 name=6389561> http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/en_US/images/global/buttons/btn_addtocart_20040803.gif (javascript:fnAddToCart('1077625490494','6389561'))


Basically, I think the "regular price" they show is consistent with what you'd find in the store. But the items that show as being on sale, you get a better deal online than in the store. But nothing tells you that, at least not on the pages where you are shopping, and as I mentioned above, I think the issue they're going to have is explaining why I could get the sale price if I bought online and did in-store pick-up, as opposed to coming down to the store to buy. Are they going to argue that I'm using less of their resources (staff costs) by ordering online and picking up as opposed to coming into the store, talking to a clerk about what I want, taking it up to the checkout counter, etc.?

[BrianD]

Is it just me, or does none of what we have been talking about actually sound like bait-and-switch? I'm seeing lots of potentially false advertising, but nothing that constitutes bait-and-switch...or has that phrase changed to include all false advertising claims?

[Ksyrup]

That's true. The usual bait and switch would involve an advertised item that the store doesn't have in stock, but they offer you a more expensive alternative. This is just a possible misleading pricing issue. Although I guess you can use the terminology generically to refer to the misleading ad as the "bait" and the higher price as the "switch."

[BrianD]

Sorry. It probably really doesn't matter, but this has come up a few times recently (here and in other places), and it has been on my mind to say something.

[stevew]

I am so tired of pitching "protection plans." The pressure to sell is just unreal on them. On some things, maybe it makes sense, but a lot of times we'll be selling a 1800 dollar TV and it'll be 500 bucks. Like honestly, that makes no sense whatsoever, especially for just 3 years.
[/end rant]

[Karlifornia]

I used to defend BB..but I can't anymore. I may have posted this story in this thread or another BB-related one, but here it is again:

When I worked there, we were instructed to only sell ps2's or Xbox's to people who were willing to purchase the replacement plans and/or all the accessories. If they didn't want the replacement plan or any accessories, we were told to say that we were out of the consoles. This was all because detailed stats were kept of add-ons to every sale, and the higher our department ranked company-wide, the more bonuses and shit the sups would get. Ugh. In retrospect,Best Buy went against every fiber of my being.

[Ksyrup]

When did you work there?

[Passacaglia]

How could you possibly ask about replacement plans before telling people if they are in stock?

[st.cronin]

I don't shop at Best Buy because everything they sell is available somewhere else for a lower price. For Christmas, somebody gave us a BB gift certificate. We were pretty stumped on what to do with it, since their prices are so much higher than anybody elses - it just didn't feel right to use it, even though it didn't actually cost us anything..

[Ksyrup]

There was a great CD shop in Tallahassee that used to take any stores' gift cards. So I would take the BB gift cards I got for XMas and use them at that store to buy the hard-to-find CDs I knew I could get at BB.

[Karlifornia]

How could you possibly ask about replacement plans before telling people if they are in stock?

It ain't that hard....they come in and ask about the Xbox....you try to add on stuff. They refuse, you say "Let me go grab one out of the stock room". You come back out "Sorry, it looks like we're actually fresh out. Gee whiz I'm so sorry!"

It's not exactly the hardest game to play.

[Karlifornia]

When did you work there?

October of '03 to February of '05

[stevew]

It ain't that hard....they come in and ask about the Xbox....you try to add on stuff. They refuse, you say "Let me go grab one out of the stock room". You come back out "Sorry, it looks like we're actually fresh out. Gee whiz I'm so sorry!"

It's not exactly the hardest game to play.

People I work with, and even I will sometimes "walk" people if they want to buy unprofitable(read it doesn't pay us anything in commision) merchandise, and/or are not interested in a warranty. If the sale pays something, I don't usually care about the no warranty part. If you're close to the warranty "parity" factor though, I find myself less likely to sell anything at all. I mean, shit, I don't want to have to go in early on a sunday and sit through another warranty meeting. Basically for generations stores have thrived on the buisiness model off sell sell sell.....we seem to be moving towards sell, but it depends on other stuff.

[Ksyrup]

The business model is sell sell sell the profitable stuff. There are so many electronics/appliance dealers now, all with price guarantees, that the margins are too small to make much money strictly selling the merchandise. Warranties have become the true money-maker. Which is why I've got the clients I do. Money-making opportunity = legal business.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

And I'm sure the class action lawsuit where everyone gets 20% off coupons and the lawyers walk away with millions will be a win for everyone.

That said, BB needs to be taken to task for their shady business practices.

SI

Just to clarify. The real win for the customer is that BB will stop the practice and the payout's size will motivate them to stop future shit. And unless the lawyer can make some cash (after spending a ton of his own money with no guarantee of winning) fighting a corporate giant with deep pockets to spend on lawyers, he's never going to run with the case. And if he doesn't run with the case, then BB keeps on doing their shit, and every other retailer follows suit.

[sooner333]

I'm still not sure if I got screwed on my 10% off coupon for my TV I bought in January. They said that it wasn't valid since the product was at a "special price". I think it could have been legit, just because they scanned the coupon and the system rejected it. I almost didn't buy the TV, but I knew I was going to get one soon anyway and didn't really feel like buying from Fry's.com (plus, this TV was bigger).

I ended up getting the extended warranty, just because it is a Westinghouse and the brand is somewhat unknown. I think if I were buying a more expensive set with a better brand, I would have been more likely to pass on it. I felt pretty good about the warranty after I took the set home and it didn't work and had to exchange it. Even though that was covered in the 30 day exchange in the first place, I knew that at least one had already failed out of the box.

[Warhammer]

At many places coupons state that they are not valid in conjuction with sale prices or special discounts.

[Izulde]

FWIW, I've never had a problem with Best Buy ever and I've actually been thankful to have purchased extended warranties in a lot of cases, most recent case in point being a few weeks ago when the digital camera I had broke last summer when I dropped it and it took a long fall in Hungary's Parliament Building.

They're repairing it no problem.

Last winter, when the screen and some keys on my laptop broke thanks to some jackasses who just tossed it during a party to make room, Best Buy's extended warranty covered it no problem, and it would've been $1,000 just to replace the screen.

The one time I didn't get an extended warranty was on a PS2 back when they were $3-400. When it died, that was $300 I had to shell out for a replacement.

So yeah, I always get the extended warranty and have never had any problems with Best Buy.

Circuit City is another matter entirely.

[Ksyrup]

Izulde, what state do you live in?

[Izulde]

Izulde, what state do you live in?

Wisconsin.

[Alan T]

Instead of starting a new thread titled: "CIRCUIT CITY SUCKS", I figured I would just post this here. Sounds pretty similar to the complaints about Best Buy. Likely just a common thing in most stores of that type. This is supposedly from someone who resigned from Circuit City, listing the shady practices they were involved in. I guess read with a grain of salt.

hxxp://consumerist.com/consumer/tender-my-resignation/27-confessions-of-a-former-circuit-city-worker-267566.php
(http://consumerist.com/consumer/tender-my-resignation/27-confessions-of-a-former-circuit-city-worker-267566.php)

[Kodos]

Most Best Buys I've been to have the PS2s, Xboxes, etc, out on the shelf, so they can't withhold it if I don't want accessories and the protection plan. It does get annoying when they constantly push the protection plans, but it is easy enough to say no. In any case, when I spring for a HDTV, I will likely buy it online somewhere.

[stevew]

Instead of starting a new thread titled: "CIRCUIT CITY SUCKS", I figured I would just post this here. Sounds pretty similar to the complaints about Best Buy. Likely just a common thing in most stores of that type. This is supposedly from someone who resigned from Circuit City, listing the shady practices they were involved in. I guess read with a grain of salt.

hxxp://consumerist.com/consumer/tender-my-resignation/27-confessions-of-a-former-circuit-city-worker-267566.php
(http://consumerist.com/consumer/tender-my-resignation/27-confessions-of-a-former-circuit-city-worker-267566.php)

I don't think any of that stuff is that controversial. Most of the points on his list apply to any of the big box retail type stores. Some of the service stuff, in regards to using firedog and such....yeah, that's less than forthcoming I would think.

My biggest incentive at work for selling protection plans is that they pay an extremely high percentage rate of commission. Basically they've nicked our percentage rates down so low on merchandise that selling the plans is the only way to make money. Either that or deal in high volumes.

[SackAttack]

I'm still not sure if I got screwed on my 10% off coupon for my TV I bought in January. They said that it wasn't valid since the product was at a "special price". I think it could have been legit, just because they scanned the coupon and the system rejected it. I almost didn't buy the TV, but I knew I was going to get one soon anyway and didn't really feel like buying from Fry's.com (plus, this TV was bigger).

at Best Buy, 10/12% coupons are never good on items already on sale. There's a handful of other restrictions too - they can't be used on certain products like iPods, PS3s, what-have you.

I ended up getting the extended warranty, just because it is a Westinghouse and the brand is somewhat unknown.

Westinghouse, if memory serves, is owned by the same company that owns General Electric and NBC. So it may be unknown, but it's not a fly-by-night company, either.

[stevew]

Westinghouse, if memory serves, is owned by the same company that owns General Electric and NBC. So it may be unknown, but it's not a fly-by-night company, either.

I believe that "Westinghouse" is just a leased brand name on the sets and they are made by a different company altogether. Their stuff isn't junk or anything, but many of the 2nd or 3rd tier electronics companies have less than spectacular customer service. And some of them use the absolute bare bones quality in internal components. If your westy goes out under EW, and they can't fix it, doesn't BB give you the price you paid in gift cards? So if it fails in the 3rd or 4th year and you have to get a replacement, you could conceiveably get a sony or something else at that point, and not pay anything extra.

[SackAttack]

TV's have a service plan. I think after the third repair, they will replace it with another TV of the same type, or, if that's not available, a comparable model.

The replacement plan, yes, you get back the money you paid in gift card form, but I don't think anything in the Home Theater department rolls that way.

[twothree]

"Man has always hated best buy"

http://www.myextralife.com/archive.php?date=2007-09-10

[SnowMan]

When I bought my tv at Best Buy (couldn't pass up the sale prices + buying online isn't an option with the shipping up here), the sales associated basically said, "You don't want the replacement plan, right?" Was a nice change from the you-gotta-have-it sales pitches we usually get.

[Ksyrup]

Just a heads up, since this has happened to me two weeks in a row. Once, I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt and consider it an oversight; twice, and I'm inclined to think this isn't such an accident.

Last week, I went to buy the new King's X CD at BB. Before I went, I checked online to make sure they had it in the store. Unless it's something I know is in high demand, I usually won't buy it online and then go get it, I'll just buy it at the store. At BB.com, they showed a list price of $14.99 and that it was on sale for $12.99. I get to the store, and it's $14.99. No 'on sale' sign/sticker, nothing. So I figure maybe it will ring up correctly, and go to pay. It rings up $14.99. Mention to the cashier the problem, and she tells me to take it to customer service to verify the price and get a "price match" for the lower price. So I do that.

Fast forward a week, I go to buy the new Opeth special edition CD. Do my online check and it lists for $19.99, on sale for $17.99. Go to the store, it's $19.99. I know the drill, but I decided to ask one of the associates in the music section what to do just to see what he says. He confirms the correct price online (in the system it shows $19.99), and tells me to get a price match at customer service. After I haggled with the chick over which version I had, she realized I was right and gave it to me for $17.99.

Now, I seem to recall BB getting in trouble for not matching online prices in the store, right? And twice in two weeks, with random new CD purchases, this happens to me. I gotta think they are hoping most people buy from the store without looking online, or know the online price but might think they saw it wrong, or just don't want to go through the hassle of waiting in line at customer service to save a couple of bucks. With the ability to buy online and get store pick up, there should be no difference in prices. Why should I have to get a "price match" to match a store's own price?

So...just consider this a friendly PSA/Warning.

[stevew]

I think the online pricing is usually low so that if they get a sale through there it itemizes through their special .com buisiness. By making it inconvenient to match the online price, they get you to do the web to store option. That way even when the B & M store posts high single digit SSS declines, they can say, "The online division is booming!"

Anyways, that's essentially what they've done at Sear$. In the past we would get several phone orders per month for items. In the past year they created an interceptor phone bank call center system which does not allow phone calls to make it through to the store. The customer assumes that they are talking to someone in the store when they are purchasing, and makes their order. The company then claims that as an online sale.....the division has seen a dramatic increase in buisiness over the past year, even though the rest of the company is tanking.

[Ksyrup]

Could be, but where you have customers who don't know any better or who are making an impulse purchase, the net effect is an increase in revenue over what they would expect to receive if everyone did the in-store pick online ordering. And it just doesn't look good. That's my issue - it looks suspicious.

[SackAttack]

I gotta think they are hoping most people buy from the store without looking online

Corporate, maybe, but they also really want to encourage online sales. There are an awful lot of people who, for whatever reason, would rather wait a week or two to get a product than order it online. Even when it's cheaper, faster, and shipping is free, you wouldn't believe the number of "I really want this but I can't be bothered to order it even though we can do it right here and now" people. It's astonishing.

With the ability to buy online and get store pick up, there should be no difference in prices. Why should I have to get a "price match" to match a store's own price?

At my store, about the only time I'll ever send someone to customer service for a BBY.com pricematch is if both a) the difference is greater than the system will allow me to manually adjust for AND b) there are so many people waiting to be helped that I cannot justify waiting for a manager to make his or her way to the register to override said price difference. Don't know how it is at other stores, but in seven years I can count on one hand the number of times our management has declined to match a price on our website, and generally that's been when there's the bold red type that says "Online Only" and corporate sends a note to stores reinforcing that.

[gstelmack]

FWIW, Circuit City is pretty much the same way. Apparently online and B&M are different units, and the profit calculates differently, and I've had them walk me over to a laptop to place the online order, then walk over to the pickup area to get it. What was fun was watching the guy have to walk out of the warehouse part, over to the shelf where I was browsing and checking prices, pick up the hard drive, and walk it back over to me at the pickup area.

Hey, if they want to go through the hassle, fine with them, but for anything specific I do the "order online / instore pickup" as that's almost always cheaper. I don't feel like wiping the cache and clearing my info out every time they want me to use the instore laptop to do the order...

[Ksyrup]

The reason I don't use the online/pickup feature more often is because (a) I like browsing, and if I'm just going in for a specific item I pick up at the front of the store, I tend not to browse, and (b) it's really hit-and-miss as to the type of line you'll encounter at customer service. Even if it's 2 people, they could have a monumental return or be really pissed and take forever. I find it's easier to just come in and take my purchase to the front of the store.

And as far as using online and having it shipped, that's been hit-and-miss, too. A couple of times, I've gotten a CD a day or two before the release, and a couple of times, I've waited until the end of the week. I want it on release day, dammit!

[gstelmack]

I don't do this for games or DVDs, but I tend to buy those at Target, Gamestop, or BJ's who almost always has them cheaper. Mostly I'm talking about hardware stuff: hard drives (when I need one quickly), DVD players, TVs, etc.

[flounder]

My mom wanted to get my dad a Wii + Wii Fit for Father's Day and their anniversary, so I told her I would make the rounds Sunday morning to try and find one. Toys R Us, Target and Circuit City are all sold out, but Best Buy doesn't open until 11. I get there at 10:30 and there are already 10 people in line.

Just as I get there, a BB sales guy comes out, tells us they have 20 of each and that we're all going to get tickets that guarantee we'll get one. So far so good. The doors open at 11 and they say they're letting us in 5 at a time to get one so that there's no big rush.

Five people go in. I'm starting to get a little warm. It's supposed to be 101 here today and it's at least 90 right now. At least we're in the shade. We sit there for another 5 minutes before they let another 5 people in. There's about 20 people behind me; a lot of them have kids that are really starting to complain about the heat.

Another 5 minutes passes. I suppose at this point I should have known something was up, but I was just so glad I finally found a Wii I didn't worry about it. Finally they let me in and tell me to go back to the media department to pick up the Wii.

I get to the media department and this sales guy corrals me and starts trying to sell me a bunch of stuff. Extra wiimote, batteries, extended warranty. I say "No thanks, just let me get my Wii". He says, "Ok. They're at the checkout counter." I get to the checkout counter and there's 5 checkout clerks and 1 guy handing out Wiis and Wii Fits. It takes me about 30 seconds to get both and checkout and pay.

So that's why they're making us stand outside in the heat; they want us to go through the guy's sales pitch one at a time. As I'm walking out the door there's still about 20 or so people in line. I tell them, "When they let you in, just go straight to the checkout counter. That's where the Wiis are. They just want you to go back to media to give you their sales spiel." The woman monitoring the line shoots me a dirty look, but at least two people in line say "Thank you!".

Dirty Best Buy Bastards.

[Ironhead]

Flounder: I always hated that Best Buy over by Regency Mall. While that really sucks I could easily see other stores doing the same thing.

[gstelmack]

As one who has railed on them in this thread, I will say that when my wife went to buy me the Guitar Hero III w/ wireless guitar for the 360 last week (when it was on sale for $75), she had a MUCH more pleasant experience than we've had in the past. At least around here, maybe their change of emphasis from a while back is starting to sink in.

[EagleFan]

Bought a GPS from them, it doesn't work. Try to bring it back and they want to charge me a restocking fee.

Went through Magellan and complained a bit about my Best Buy experience and Magellan is now sending me a better model than what I bought as a replacement.

The GPS could not track any satelites (pretty much making it a paper weight).

[SportsDino]

The importance of honest customer service:

A Best Buy lackey completely misrepresents something to soak an extra $20 from me, including answering a fairly direct question incorrectly (either deliberately false or incompetence at a level too high for my tolerance). The kicker is I get shunted through another person in this same transaction and they knowingly stood there saying nothing (or reinforcing the idea) while I remarked numerous times about how odd the particular $20 item was.

I'm the vindictive sort, so over a $20 thing they did not need to sell (I was buying something for around $800 btw) they are on my corporation ban list, with about 25 other companies (I'm still young, I'm sure it'll get longer). Bought literally thousands of dollars worth of stuff from Best Buy in the past... kind of foolish that they are so worried about their marginal revenues that they outright piss off half their customers.

I would easily pay another $100 markup on a computer/tv/whatever, I buy based on what I want anyway (specs, brand I trust, etc.) ... I'm not price shopping over 50-200 bucks. I almost want to open my own electronics store based around the idea of 'no hassle service'... although there has to be one somewhere already you would think. Suggestions would be welcome!

[flounder]

Flounder: I always hated that Best Buy over by Regency Mall. While that really sucks I could easily see other stores doing the same thing.

Actually, that Best Buy closed a while ago. The new one opened up on Walton Way Extension near Columbia county. I'm not surprised that crappy customer service is independent of location though.

When were you in the Augusta area?

[Bonegavel]

I've always had a great experience at our BB. My most recent dealing was as follows.

I bought a GHIII for the PS3. I got it home and I swear to the FSM that the guitar was used. The buttons looked worn and the battery compartment had scratches in it. I took it back, swapped it with another one and when I got home I noticed similar wear. I'm figuring the BB workers probably brought in their used guitars from home and swapped them out with new ones.

I took it back and this time went to get my money and not a replacement. Zero hassle. They took it. I explained to them exactly what I thought and they just credited my card.

I've returned many things at our BB and have yet to have a bad experience. They are not all created equal?

[Cringer]

Not all equal.

I am sure there are some pretty decent BBs around. The one we have had down here for a long time sucks. My wife has a huge hatred for the store. I haven't been to the newer one closer to me yet so I am not sure if that one is any better. Probably not as busy so that would help I am sure.