Alright Boyz, Sid Meier's Railroads First Impressions!!!

[Abe Sargent]

Just got my copy and I'm about to read the instruction manual over a hot bath and then play around with it some tonight. Anybody else with it? Anybody else try it out?

[cartman]

hot bath and then play around with it some tonight.

T...

M....

I....

[Crapshoot]

Nope- waiting to read reviews and what not, but I'm sure I'll pick it up soon anyway. Officially speaking, is it a successor of sorts to RT3 (which I loved) ?

[cartman]

I'll probably be picking this game up this week, along with FS:X.

[Buccaneer]

Cool, a virgin review. I had not read anything about the game so I'd be curious if they piratized it or learned the lesson from PopTop.

[Noop]

a hot bath and then play around with it some tonight. Anybody else with it? Anybody else try it out?

Nah I don't need a bath to play with it just a good porn site. ;)

[Craptacular]

I'm guessing my P3-800 ain't enough to play Railroads.

[spleen1015]

I got it today and I really like it. I didn't play any of the previous versions, so I can't speak to that.

I'm having some trouble working out my track layout, but overall I'm having a lot of fun. I'm sure my problems are due to inexperience.

I played the SW USA map twice and each time the resources were in different places. My starting location was in a different place, too.

I can see the expansion already. More resources and more maps!

[cartman]

I can see the expansion already. More resources and more maps!

I hope it is like Civ4, where the configuration is all in XML files, which allows 3rd party folks to customize to their heart's content.

[Abe Sargent]

I don;t like, from RRT3 to SMRR the change from needing to place things like Water Stations and oil, and engines needing these supplies, to no longer having these needs. Balancing track with those needs was a nice dynamic that has been removed. Ick.

[Abe Sargent]

Another thing RRT3 does better is finances with loans, more detailed stock, credit ratings, and so forth. In this, you own stock in lumps of 10% and you can buy or sell stock in those lumps between you and competitors. RRT3 is much more nuanced and detailed in this area.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Another thing RRT3 does better is finances with loans, more detailed stock, credit ratings, and so forth. In this, you own stock in lumps of 10% and you can buy or sell stock in those lumps between you and competitors. RRT3 is much more nuanced and detailed in this area.

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought this was a remake of the original Railroad Tycoon game? That's the way the stock was handled in the original game, so it certainly makes sense that it's done in that way in this game.

[Ksyrup]

I can't even fit in a bathtub, let alone enjoy a hot bath.

[sachmo71]

I can't even fit in a bathtub, let alone enjoy a hot bath.

have you tried letting people pee on you?

[Warhammer]

Was RRT3 that big of an improvement on RRT2?

[Buccaneer]

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought this was a remake of the original Railroad Tycoon game? That's the way the stock was handled in the original game, so it certainly makes sense that it's done in that way in this game.

That was the only assumption and perception that I had - a remake of the original Sid Meier's RRT (just like SM Pirates). It shouldn't have any comparisons to the PopTop games - whether that's good or bad.

[Swaggs]

This sounds like a cool one. I'll have to pick it up soon.

[Alan T]

I picked up a copy of this last night and only tried it out for a bit before stopping for Law and Order shows on tv. So far my initial impression is that this doesn't feel like an improvement over RRT3 in any category and I'm disapointed.

[Abe Sargent]

That was the only assumption and perception that I had - a remake of the original Sid Meier's RRT (just like SM Pirates). It shouldn't have any comparisons to the PopTop games - whether that's good or bad.

It should have comparisons to me. The PopTop Games were developments of the original, with good ideas and good implementation. So far, this game is a step back. The stock market has very little detail at all - no splits, it's very unresponsive after purchases, no detail, no ability to issue more stock for quick cash, and so forth. Why have a stock market aspect of the game if it is going to be so simple - so streamlined? If this is an area that needs improvement from the original, then do so.

Now I'm not expecting it to be RRT3, but I don't see any harm in comparing it to an established standard game in the exact genre. I played through one scenario last night, and so far, I like RRT3 better. I'll play through a couple more tonight and see if that stays, but I'm betting the impression lasts.

If you can't make a game that is at least as good as a game released three years ago by a smaller company, that's a problem to me.


-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

I picked up a copy of this last night and only tried it out for a bit before stopping for Law and Order shows on tv. So far my initial impression is that this doesn't feel like an improvement over RRT3 in any category and I'm disapointed.

I agree except for graphics. The graphics are better - it's a pretty game.

[Alan T]

It should have comparisons to me. The PopTop Games were developments of the original, with good ideas and good implementation. So far, this game is a step back. The stock market has very little detail at all - no splits, it's very unresponsive after purchases, no detail, no ability to issue more stock for quick cash, and so forth. Why have a stock market aspect of the game if it is going to be so simple - so streamlined? If this is an area that needs improvement from the original, then do so.

Now I'm not expecting it to be RRT3, but I don't see any harm in comparing it to an established standard game in the exact genre. I played through one scenario last night, and so far, I like RRT3 better. I'll play through a couple more tonight and see if that stays, but I'm betting the impression lasts.

If you can't make a game that is at least as good as a game released three years ago by a smaller company, that's a problem to me.


-Anxiety

I didnt really buy it with the thought in mind that it was going to be built off of RRT3 or such.. I just guess I assumed since it was a new Railroad Tycoon game, it would give me some compelling reason to play it over RRT3 which has already been around a few years.

Right now, i just haven't found any reason that makes me say I would rather play it than a game already existing in the marketplace. I'm not trying to draw a direct comparison of it vs RRT3, just stating since I already have RRT3 buyin this game feels like a waste to me.

I'll probably play it some more this weekend to see if it grows on me, but so far I'm dissapointed.

[Crapshoot]

Ugh - if the economy model is dialed down rather than dialed up, I'm backing away from this - I liked the debt and stock modeling in RT3, and would have prefered something that expanded that, rather than curtailed it.

[Abe Sargent]

I didnt really buy it with the thought in mind that it was going to be built off of RRT3 or such.. I just guess I assumed since it was a new Railroad Tycoon game, it would give me some compelling reason to play it over RRT3 which has already been around a few years.

Right now, i just haven't found any reason that makes me say I would rather play it than a game already existing in the marketplace. I'm not trying to draw a direct comparison of it vs RRT3, just stating since I already have RRT3 buyin this game feels like a waste to me.

I'll probably play it some more this weekend to see if it grows on me, but so far I'm dissapointed.

I agree, I wasn't expecting an RRT3 clone, but I was expecting a game that had, at least, a similar amount of detail. It could have been detailed in different ways with different ideas - that'd be fine. It could focus more on industry, for example, with new options and ideas there - that'd be fine. It could be more focused on tech development with more of a Civ style research tree - that'd be fine. Whatever - I don't mind. But instead, it appears a weaker game after a scenario victory and two failures on a more difficult level.

AlanT, have you noticed a smaller number of goods on your maps? I remember just 10 or 15 goods (products) when I played SW US and NE US last night.

[Coffee Warlord]

Hell, I thought RRT3 was dumbed down by quite a bit. If this is actually MORE dumbed down, screw that.

[cartman]

I hope it is like Civ4, where the configuration is all in XML files, which allows 3rd party folks to customize to their heart's content.

Can anyone who already has the game confirm this? If the possibility exists, hopefully there can be SevoMod like modifications created to enhance things.

[Alan T]

I agree, I wasn't expecting an RRT3 clone, but I was expecting a game that had, at least, a similar amount of detail. It could have been detailed in different ways with different ideas - that'd be fine. It could focus more on industry, for example, with new options and ideas there - that'd be fine. It could be more focused on tech development with more of a Civ style research tree - that'd be fine. Whatever - I don't mind. But instead, it appears a weaker game after a scenario victory and two failures on a more difficult level.

AlanT, have you noticed a smaller number of goods on your maps? I remember just 10 or 15 goods (products) when I played SW US and NE US last night.

The number of goods didnt jump out at me, but it kind of makes sense I guess. For the most part, everything seems a bit more simplified/streamlined. Its been a very long time since I played RRT3, so can't compare directly, but it felt like in almost every category there was less to work with.

[Buccaneer]

Sounds similar to the new Pirates. In of itself (and for a one-time play), it was a great game. When you think about replayability and would could have been (e.g., taking advantage of AI advancements/strategic elements/etc.), it is not. Sounds SM RRT falls in the same category. Thank god for the Civ franchise though.

[Alan T]

It informed me that my video card drivers were out of date and asked if I wanted to upgrade them. I chose to not let it upgrade my drivers for me automatically, but did it on my own from the official site.

I now can't even start the game. It crashes every time I load it up (I assume where it does the video driver check). Needless to say the game is not winning me over :) About to cut my losses and win my time back on this one.

[Warhammer]

Hell, I thought RRT3 was dumbed down by quite a bit. If this is actually MORE dumbed down, screw that.

So I take it RRT2 is still the best of the bunch?

[moriarty]

Ugh, sounds like from the impressions here and in other threads they pretty much ignored any advancements / positive changes in RRT2 and RRT3 and just did a remake of the first one with fancy graphics (and some interface changes to simplify some things).

I was turned off by the lack of replay of Pirates, and I don't feel like getting burned again by going backwards in gameplay with this one. I think I'll be passing.

[Crapshoot]

Ugh, sounds like from the impressions here and in other threads they pretty much ignored any advancements / positive changes in RRT2 and RRT3 and just did a remake of the first one with fancy graphics (and some interface changes to simplify some things).

I was turned off by the lack of replay of Pirates, and I don't feel like getting burned again by going backwards in gameplay with this one. I think I'll be passing.


""""""""""". Thanks for the reviews guys - if this is "pretty" I'd rather go back to playing RRT3. Good enough graphically, and some semblance of a economic model.

[Crapshoot]

Fyi: First Review:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/sidmeiersrailroads/review.html

[bulletsponge]

i preordered it. i never played RRT3 but did play RRT2

[moriarty]

Fyi: First Review:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/sidmeiersrailroads/review.html

Here's the part that bothered me ...

"Sid Meier's Railroads! strikes a comfortable balance between a deep economic simulation and an accessible, streamlined empire-building game. People looking for the same level of micromanagement of Railroad Tycoon 3 might be disappointed with just how simplified Railroads! is, but there's still plenty of depth here to make it worth a look. This is also a good game for people who are new to tycoon-style games and just want to build a virtual model railroad without worrying about the minutiae of business management."

Maybe I'm paranoid, but I translate that as 'dumbing down' RRT3.

[I. J. Reilly]

All of the reviews and first impressions have me pretty excited about this game. I understand everybody’s worries, but more complicated doesn’t mean it’s a better game.

The time I have to play games has changed so much since I first started playing in-depth strategy games that I can’t really enjoy the great current games. I love Civ4 and can see that it’s a great game, but when I only have an hour or so at a time to play, and sometimes a week passes in between sessions, it doesn’t really work. It usually takes me close to an hour to figure out what my strategy was and what I was trying to do with all those armies.

So hopefully this is what I’ve been looking for, and hopefully it does well in the marketplace so that there will be other’s like it to follow.

[spleen1015]

I am enjoying the game a lot. I want to play it all of the time.

[Draft Dodger]

sounds extremely disappointing

[Crapshoot]

DD, are you reviewing it for GameNikki, or is SA doing it?

[Tasan]

From the sounds of this, its more like the original than the two sequels, which to me is a good thing. I loved the beer 'n peanuts simplicity yet overall fun of the first one. The next two just seemed to complicate things too much.

[Buccaneer]

Not only that, I found RRT2 to be too linear and RRT1 more open ended. From what I've heard, RRT3 took out things that were basic to RRT2. But regarding this new release, I would like to hear about replayability.

[hawk4669]

Let me preface my post by saying that I played RR Tycoon (the original), played RR Tycoon 2 (never got into it like I did the first), and completely missed the third.

That being said, I do like the simplicity of the new one. I guess I'm easy to please, but what I've seen of it so far has been fun. Been having trouble getting my trains to do what I want (my gold train bound for L.A. ended up somewhere near Yuma, AZ!)....but the more I dink with it, the more I enjoy it.

Cheers!

[gstelmack]

Has anyone who never played any of the others tried this one out? I'd like to know if it's a good game regardless of how it compares to the others (I've never played the others).

I'm also one that feels more complexities / options does not necessarily make for a better game. If I want to build a rail empire, why do I want a super-detailed stock market simulator?

Of course, I'm also one that got more than my money's worth out of the Pirates! remake, so...

[Eaglesfan27]

Has anyone who never played any of the others tried this one out? I'd like to know if it's a good game regardless of how it compares to the others (I've never played the others).

I'm also one that feels more complexities / options does not necessarily make for a better game. If I want to build a rail empire, why do I want a super-detailed stock market simulator?

Of course, I'm also one that got more than my money's worth out of the Pirates! remake, so...


I'm wondering the same things. I've never played any of the previous ones, but I'm intrigued by this game. Then again, there are a lot of good games that have either just come out or are coming out in the next month or so.

[Warhammer]

Has anyone who never played any of the others tried this one out? I'd like to know if it's a good game regardless of how it compares to the others (I've never played the others).

I'm also one that feels more complexities / options does not necessarily make for a better game. If I want to build a rail empire, why do I want a super-detailed stock market simulator?

Of course, I'm also one that got more than my money's worth out of the Pirates! remake, so...

The reason why you wanted a stock market simulator is that many rail barons did monkey with their stocks. In RRT2, you could issue tons of stock to generate cash to build rails, but then get closed out of your company when your competition bought all the shares up.

Also, in RRT2 the whole thing was YOU were the rail baron. It was perfectly ok to trash the company but make a fortune yourself.

[moriarty]

Has anyone who never played any of the others tried this one out? I'd like to know if it's a good game regardless of how it compares to the others (I've never played the others).

I'm also one that feels more complexities / options does not necessarily make for a better game. If I want to build a rail empire, why do I want a super-detailed stock market simulator?

Of course, I'm also one that got more than my money's worth out of the Pirates! remake, so...

I would probably wait for the demo at this point (I read somewhere it should be out shortly). Not sure if the demo will let you play enough to make a determination, but ...

[Buccaneer]

The reason why you wanted a stock market simulator is that many rail barons did monkey with their stocks. In RRT2, you could issue tons of stock to generate cash to build rails, but then get closed out of your company when your competition bought all the shares up.

Also, in RRT2 the whole thing was YOU were the rail baron. It was perfectly ok to trash the company but make a fortune yourself.

But it came very formulaic. There was always one company that would do bad and one that would do good - and those would become apparent early in the game. If I recall the strategy, you short the bad one (as it was going down) and buy on margin the good one (as it was going up). Eventually you'll have control of both.

[Barkeep49]

Bucc: But that argues for making a better simulator not a dumbed down one.

[gstelmack]

Bucc: But that argues for making a better simulator not a dumbed down one.

Better does not necessarily mean complex. Words like "much more nuanced and detailed" (from Anxiety) make me nervous. I want to lay tracks, watch the trains go, and build an empire, not spend all my time staring at a stock market screen. If I'm spending more than a few minutes every hour worrying about stocks, I'm not buying the game. That's my point. If most of the negativity surrounds having a less detailed stock market portion of the game, that isn't necessarily going to scare me off.

So again, is the game fun or not? I don't care how it stacks up to the others, I just want to know if it's any fun.

Civ IV has a lot of variation and things to deal with and pay attention to, but it's still very accessible and easy to play. Nothing you do in that game requires more than a few seconds of work at a time. That's what I want out of a Sid game.

[Buccaneer]

Civ IV has a lot of variation and things to deal with and pay attention to, but it's still very accessible and easy to play. Nothing you do in that game requires more than a few seconds of work at a time. That's what I want out of a Sid game.

I fully agree with that. Sid's hallmark has been "simple yet deep". The keys to his games have been accessibility, replayability and "one more turn" (whether turned based or not). That's why I was surprised about the new Pirates game - where he threw replayability out the window.

You want the game to flow from beginning to end without getting bogged down in any one task. There could be a lot of tasks (like in Civ4) to work and to make decisions about but none would disrupt the flow of the game. I think the original RRT was great at doing that. Sure we would love to have a stock simulator built into the game - but at what cost?

What I would expect out of this new RRT is the open-ended gameplay (for multi-level decision making) and replayability. I would expect it to have more things to do than in the original (because of advances in technologies) but no one thing would bog the game down. Just like Civ4.

[Brillig]

After a couple of games, this game is fun, pretty to look at, and dumb with nothing under the surface. It's RRT Blonde!

/ducks

Seriously, the economic model isn't *too* simplified, although there are only a dozen or so goods to move, down a bit from the twenty or so I seem to recall in earlier iterations. The fact that the industries come in different sizes that grow with utilization (along with the cities) is nice. The growth also feels more responsive to player actions than they used to in RRT1/2/3.

One of the biggest changes, which takes a good deal of getting used to is that every player can access every city and resource, no more racing to objectives to lock the opposition out. This probably simplified the AI coding... There's still a big advantage in being first though, as the later companies to connect often end up using expensive and slow bridges to get in.

The patent auctions are a nice twist too, as well as the auctions for city industries. They kept the 'goal/medal' system from the last version, which is a plus, as it gives you something to shoot for other than the usual random expansion.

So, what are the bad points? First, the AI is pretty weak. I haven't had any issues crushing the first three difficulty levels yet - I expect the highest will either be easy - or impossible. It took getting to the third level before the AI even did much in the stock market.

Speaking of the stock market, it's been mentioned as a weak point - and it's a pretty glaring weakness. The '10 shares' per company isn't an impossible abstraction, but the initial setup is crazy, as any tycoon worth his salt will sell off all his stock initially in order to finance an early expansion. Maybe at Tycoon the AI will have enough capital to punish you for doing this, but otherwise, it'll only have play in a multiplayer scenario.

Scenarios are also an issue - aside from multiplayer maps, the game only has seven scenarios to start. And they're all pretty limited in scope. The game feels small. There's no 'whole US' map, just limited regions - and the scale of the models makes the game feel claustrophobic, with major cities seemingly right next to each other once you get to the middle game.

The final bone I have to pick with the game regards train routing. Now in addition to the original single and double tracking, you can even triple track. Why would you need to? Because trains don't seamlessly pass one another on double track like they used to. Instead, trains are actually on a specific piece of track, and you need to not only lay multiple lines of track but actually lay connecting pieces between them in order to allow trains to switch back and forth. Further, if you just run short 45-degree connections, you'll take a huge speed hit whenever one of your trains need to switch.

This all sounds like a realistic and interesting improvement to the game... except the AI running the trains is mongoloid at best. I've had a situation where two trains were coming into a triple tracked station... and one train took a given track, while the following train decided to use the exact same track. Since the first train was turning around at the station, I ended up with a Mexican standoff. Since there was no way around the situation, I had to delete one of the trains! Be warned, wierd shit may happen if you use the highest routing difficulty. It's possible that this might become more intuitive with experience, but for now it's a colossal pain.

So, to sum up... some good points, some bad points. The game is fun to play, within it's limitations, but I'm not sure how replayable it will be. The key will be how the highest difficulty holds up... unless they hit it just right, there won't be much left but multiplayer.

[Abe Sargent]

Better does not necessarily mean complex. Words like "much more nuanced and detailed" (from Anxiety) make me nervous. I want to lay tracks, watch the trains go, and build an empire, not spend all my time staring at a stock market screen. If I'm spending more than a few minutes every hour worrying about stocks, I'm not buying the game. That's my point. If most of the negativity surrounds having a less detailed stock market portion of the game, that isn't necessarily going to scare me off.

So again, is the game fun or not? I don't care how it stacks up to the others, I just want to know if it's any fun.

Civ IV has a lot of variation and things to deal with and pay attention to, but it's still very accessible and easy to play. Nothing you do in that game requires more than a few seconds of work at a time. That's what I want out of a Sid game.


I just played another scenario and it was blisteringly simple. My third win and I've played on harder levels, harder scenarios, harder track, and tons of opponents. It's just too simple and easy. Once you get a strategy down for winning one scenario you can do so for others and most of the scenarios have easy goals or hards goals all as a variation on a theme (deliver X of something to Y, connect X, Y and Z, buyout stock, etc.).

I am almost offended by this game's simplicity. It simply has no playability or replayability for me.

-Anxiety

[Airhog]

Saw this on another forum

The game can be made more difficult and the competitors can also be made tougher if you edit the XML files in your "Install Directory\Assets\XML" folder. Once there, edit "RRT_Difficulty.xml" and "RRT_Characters.xml" to make the game more of a challenge.

In the "RRT_Difficulty.xml" file, there is one difficulty which is not shown while playing the game and that is called "Insane (Testers Only)". Remove line 138, <Debug>true</Debug>, and that Insane level will now be selectable in the game. Tweak the modifiers to suit your taste.

In the "RRT_Characters.xml" file, each character is rated on 4 skills: Building, Finances, Operations and Robber (Robber Baron-ing). Most of the characters by default are idiots. The best one is "Sidney Bruce" who is rated all "4" (possibly the highest setting), but he does not appear in any scenario. Edit the others to all 4's or maybe make one of them all "5" to see how tough the competition get.

[bulletsponge]

Saw this on another forum

The game can be made more difficult and the competitors can also be made tougher if you edit the XML files in your "Install Directory\Assets\XML" folder. Once there, edit "RRT_Difficulty.xml" and "RRT_Characters.xml" to make the game more of a challenge.

In the "RRT_Difficulty.xml" file, there is one difficulty which is not shown while playing the game and that is called "Insane (Testers Only)". Remove line 138, <Debug>true</Debug>, and that Insane level will now be selectable in the game. Tweak the modifiers to suit your taste.

In the "RRT_Characters.xml" file, each character is rated on 4 skills: Building, Finances, Operations and Robber (Robber Baron-ing). Most of the characters by default are idiots. The best one is "Sidney Bruce" who is rated all "4" (possibly the highest setting), but he does not appear in any scenario. Edit the others to all 4's or maybe make one of them all "5" to see how tough the competition get.

thanks for that info

[gstelmack]

After a couple of games, this game is fun, pretty to look at, and dumb with nothing under the surface. It's RRT Blonde!

Thanks for the review. That's the kind of information I was looking for. The routing issues you describe are probably enough to keep me away from it unless a patch comes out that fixes them.

[Brillig]

Saw this on another forum

The game can be made more difficult and the competitors can also be made tougher if you edit the XML files in your "Install Directory\Assets\XML" folder. Once there, edit "RRT_Difficulty.xml" and "RRT_Characters.xml" to make the game more of a challenge.

In the "RRT_Difficulty.xml" file, there is one difficulty which is not shown while playing the game and that is called "Insane (Testers Only)". Remove line 138, <DEBUG>true</DEBUG>, and that Insane level will now be selectable in the game. Tweak the modifiers to suit your taste.

In the "RRT_Characters.xml" file, each character is rated on 4 skills: Building, Finances, Operations and Robber (Robber Baron-ing). Most of the characters by default are idiots. The best one is "Sidney Bruce" who is rated all "4" (possibly the highest setting), but he does not appear in any scenario. Edit the others to all 4's or maybe make one of them all "5" to see how tough the competition get.

Good info, thanks...

Sidney Bruce is Sid Meier's alter ego, IIRC. So 4 is probably the max, I've just gone through and edited all of the others to 4.

As for the difficulty settings... looking at the XML, Insane is pretty silly. If it's beatable, than the AI truly needs to be scrapped... I'm not a huge fan of difficulty modes that just handicap you vs the AI anyway. Maybe I'm spoiled by GalCiv, but I like difficulty settings that make the AI play smarter.

I might tweak the Insane level to be a little more reasonable though. We'll see...

---

On a separate note, towards the end of the game I've been noticing "track-lag", i.e., significant pauses (several seconds) whenever new track is laid. At a guess, there's an internal representation of the track layout that the computer uses to determine routing, and every new piece of track or connection increases the complexity exponentially...

[Abe Sargent]

This all sounds like a realistic and interesting improvement to the game... except the AI running the trains is mongoloid at best. I've had a situation where two trains were coming into a triple tracked station... and one train took a given track, while the following train decided to use the exact same track. Since the first train was turning around at the station, I ended up with a Mexican standoff. Since there was no way around the situation, I had to delete one of the trains! Be warned, wierd shit may happen if you use the highest routing difficulty. It's possible that this might become more intuitive with experience, but for now it's a colossal pain.




My way to solve that issue is to run track from the city/town to whatever you are going and not having any crossover. As long as you run paralell track, this is not a problem in stations. So, for example, I'll do this:


STATION STATION

Track ============================Track


Normally. If I need to run a branch line from the first station to, say, a resource or another city, I use parallel track like this:


STATION STATION


Track ============================= Track
Track ========
\
\
\
\
STATION



And the two never meet. That way I don't need to worry about crossing trains. You can also use two stations in the same city if you need to.


-Anxiety

[spleen1015]

My way to solve that issue is to run track from the city/town to whatever you are going and not having any crossover. As long as you run paralell track, this is not a problem in stations. So, for example, I'll do this:


STATION STATION

Track ============================Track


Normally. If I need to run a branch line from the first station to, say, a resource or another city, I use parallel track like this:


STATION STATION


Track ============================= Track
Track ========
\
\
\
\
STATION



And the two never meet. That way I don't need to worry about crossing trains. You can also use two stations in the same city if you need to.


-Anxiety


This is the way I have been playing it and everything is working out fine. Here is a link to a guy who has done some research into the Hard Routing setting. I have been using medium since I started playing, so I have no experience with the hard mode. I have played about 15 hours of the game and have only ever ran into a deadlocked situation once. This is when I started using the strategy Anxiety talks about.

Also, the gamespot board is the only other board where I have found any discussion on the game.

[Alan T]

I found a nice little bug if you block an AI opponent into a city (where they can't expand their rail either way due to terrain or your track in a bad spot), the game will just crash. I had this happen in two different games with that scenerio.

That will teach me to horde all of the steel.

In other news, I decided to go back to playing some RRT3 to get a fresh feel for it. I fondly remembered playing that game for many many hours and wanted to refresh what I did and didn't like about it. Going back to RRt3 helps me realize just how much better looking and feeling the new Railroads is. The game is much easier to navigate and the controls to do things are far easier to get a good grasp on.

I just really wish there was more than just the same 10 or so resources every time. Its always pretty much the same push for the same resources in every game of railroads that I have played. You just have to figure out where on the map those resources are and develop your plan to expand to there. With RRt3 you had much more flexability to develop your rail strategy around what you had surrounding you. You wern't locked into the same resources as your only key.

After playing railroads, Im not sure that I can go back to RRt3 and ever enjoy it though, its just ugly. I just wish the -good- things RRT3 had with stocks and resources and such were implemented into this game.

Also does anyone know of any new scenerios out for railroads anywhere? I pretty much now am just playing the open ended scenerio with random map and city placement each time these days.

[Abe Sargent]

Railroads certainly is pretty that's true.


-Anxiety

[Brillig]

Well, while you can certainly route that way, it kinda blows the whole point of routing out of the water, neh? If every train runs on it's own separate track, not only is it inefficient as hell, it's uninteresting to build and boring to watch.

Addendum: Went over to the Gamespot forum and found this link

http://www.modalogica.com/default.aspx?mode=postview&tid=703

which I think is the link that spleen referred to but didn't give. While I was there, I also found a few more interesting things. Such as - it's possible to endlessly buy/sell loop your own stock for infinite cash, and you can make the AI waste it's own cash by starting auctions for worthless industries.

Now I'm not entirely sure of the second, since I've seen the AI *not* bid for industries some times. But the first definitely works. Not a big deal for single player, but it certainly is a MP problem.

Also, crash bugs (I've seen a few also) appear fairly common.

All told, if you haven't got this game yet, stay the hell away from it. At least for two patches (the first is mainly stability issues, so they won't be fixing the broken game stuff until the second at minimum.)

[Fouts]

Somewhat related - Gametap just added Railroad Tycoon 2: Platinum to their playlist.

[Brillig]

So, the first patch has been sent to QA, here's the current changes. Looking at the list, it seems that the initial release was, in fact, a festering pile. :mad: :mad: :mad:





Sid Meier's Railroads! Changelog
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|| v 1.010 (59214) || 27-Oct-2006 ||
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* AI - Added a negative value to investor level, to slow AI down if he's running away with a win.
* AI - Better AI train upgrades- only upgrade trains that have hit full load capacity at least once after the first 3 years of service. Also only upgrade when a comparison of max speeds, given the prior loadouts, proves the upgrade is actually faster.
* AI - Edited timing differences in difficulty XML
* AI - Fix for AI failing to initiate industry auctions.
* AI - Fix for AI failing to set a route in first minute of game.
* AI - Fixed AI bug where all its internal values for each good were mixed up, causing passengers to be valued at the price of automobiles, hence passengers were almost exclusively delivered.
* AI - Increased maximum AI auction bidding limits.
* AI - Less idling on Tycoon difficulty.
* AI - Track/train costs constant for all difficulty levels
* AI - Train's consist from a bought out AI will no longer have more than 8 cars on the routing screen.
* AI - Refresh mission status after each train added (ensures early delivery missions get added)
* Art - Correcting naming convention for Class 40 Diesel.
* Art - Fix for missing build-up animations.
* Art - Fixed rotating truck problem on ES1 and Crocodile locomotives.
* Art - fixed sorting transparency issue with Goods Car v1.
* Art - Fixes for the Iron Duke and Consolidation.
* Crash - Deleting both routes to a train will no longer crash the game when the train comes back.
* Crash - Deleting the section of track right before the train will no longer crash the game.
* Crash - Double left-clicking on an "Industry Buy" button no longer causes the game to crash to desktop.
* Crash - Fix crash when trying to hide auction that hasn't been created yet when going into routing screen.
* Crash - Fixed restart crash.
* Crash - If user changes the route to a depot the train is just passing the game will no longer crash.
* Crash - Long track is broken up into smaller tracks to address the "long track crash".
* Crash - Overlapping a track junction no longer causes a crash to desktop upon quitting to main menu or laying a parallel track off a piece of track.
* Crash - stopped a problem with improper links.
* Crash - The game no longer crashes after deleting a certain segment of track from the attached save game.
* Crash - The game will no longer crash if the player blocks AI's train track at the beginning of the game.
* Crash - The liquidate and merge overlay is no longer transferable to other parts of the game.
* Crash - User can no longer crash game by holding down the increase/decrease elevation keys.
* Crash - When bought out, don't try to update the main game interface if the main game interface does not exist.
* Crash - When deleting a track, there is no reason to reroute a train that is using that track if the train has already passed that track and will not cross it in the future.
* Crash - When Host or Client is bought out when on the "Train Upgrade" screen they'll no longer crash.
* Design - Mail price tweak.
* Functionality - Fix for rerouting issue. If you change your route by adding a new stop while you're loading at the first stop and the way to the second stop is blocked by another train, your train will no longer stop loading at the first stop and start moving towards the second stop (where it wouldn't unload it's cars.)
* Functionality - Fix for why sometimes both parallel tracks aren't added to a depot when dropped down.
* Functionality - Fixed tutorial progression stoppers.
* Functionality - If the user retires with an auction onscreen and chooses to 'keep playing' the current auction and all future auctions will now retain their functionality.
* Functionality - Making parallel tracks within looped track will choose the shortest path along the loop to build the track.
* Functionality - Opening the Trains screen (F4), clicking the Money sort button, and then deleting a train will no longer cause the sorting order to become randomized again.
* Functionality - Remove victory conditions that involve competitor stock when playing with no AI.
* Functionality - Stock buy/sell exploit fix.
* Functionality - The player who owns the industry now gets the bonus money, rather than the person who delivered the goods.
* Functionality - User is no longer able to place depot in the water in london on the GB scenario, leaving it inaccessible.
* Functionality - When player buys out another player, and they inherit the stock of the remaining player, the remaining player will now be shown as "bought out" if the player now owns all shares of that player.
* Graphics - cleared city and industry temporary track grid every time it moves.
* Graphics - Half the alert screen no longer disappears until space is pressed.
* Graphics - improved UpdateLeaders performance.
* Graphics - Minimizing then maximizing the game no longer causes the Minimap and Train Graph, on Roundhouse screen, to become corrupted
* Graphics - Updated Nvidia settings
* Graphics - While dragging a track and you loose focus of the railroads window in fullscreen and when you come back the ground texture will no longer go black.
* Interface - Added option to not show the era intro screen.
* Interface - Clicking on mission objectives takes you to the locatoin instead of re-opening the newspaper.
* Interface - Closing load dialog resets focus to load button.
* Interface - Closing options dialog resets focus to options button.
* Interface - Customize train screen now remembers apply all states. Setting apply all buttons, sets color and/or decal as default for new trains.
* Interface - "Event Log" box no longer comes forward when Player tries to "close" out the "Finance" screen.
* Interface - First auction bid is now the proposed value rather than being $10k+ than the proposed value.
* Interface - Game Alert Log can now be properly closed if a newspaper alert appears above it.
* Interface - In the button config option, the "Print Screen" key no longer appears as the "System Request" key.
* Interface - Interface can no longer get stuck on the screen if user presses escape and then an F-key.
* Interface - Newspapers are no longer modal.
* Interface - Now show trade-in value when you're upgrading a train.
* Interface - Optimization to keep the frame rate from dropping dramatically when objects are mouse-over or selected.
* Interface - Preventing the new train and the newspaper screen from appearing at the same time
* Interface - Removed the "show all player's floating text" option.
* Interface - The world now drops the initial depot before the era popup is closed.
* Interface - Selecting a city and having a "New Train Alert" pop up will no longer cause the selected city's resource icons on the mini-map to disappear.
* Interface - The in-game Pause prompt now updates after assigning a new letter to the Pause action.
* Interface - Update player name for game when changed on options screen from main menu.
* Interface - User can no longer assign arrow buttons as hotkeys.
* Interface - User can no longer enter over 20 characters of text for the Buyout Taunt Headline or Subhead in the Options menu.
* Interface - When rotating view, letting go of the center mouse button while over a large city icon now releases the "rotating camera".
* Interface - Zoom in and out keymap keys added.
* Multiplayer - Code fixes to address MP AI OOS.
* Multiplayer - Don't allow the game to access the internet if we're not playing an internet game.
* Multiplayer - Enabled AI players in MP.
* Multiplayer - Network and sync timing now floats - attempting to resolve the time error accumulation in slower machines.
* Multiplayer - Stuttery train fix: turn off vblanksynch in MP.
* Performance - Fixed small AI memory leak when a route is valid but the AI can't afford it.
* Performance - Improved city and industry placement performance.
* Performance - Improved mow field performance.
* Performance - Improved track overlap finding performance.
* Performance - Improving city and stockpile track cutting, which improves track dragging by ~25%.
* Performance - Increased performance of reflection and shadow generation.
* Performance - Roundhouse and feature screen no longer load animations (only affects non-precached option).
* Performance - Simplified track validation to improve performance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|| v 1.000 (58110) || 29-Sep-2006 ||
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Initial Retail Release.

[wishbone]

It looks like their is a demo coming soon, file shack has it but you have to be a paid subscriber to get it. That should change pretty soon.

[spleen1015]

I hope that patch gets here quickly. Not getting the bonus money when owning an industry stopped me from playing.

[KWhit]

If anyone is tired/bored with this game, I'll trade you something for it. It doesn't sound up my alley as far as gameplay goes, but my 2 year old son is NUTS about trains and he has had a blast looking the movies on the website. I figured I'd get it and set it up for him to see all the neat trains, but I don't really want to spend full price on it.

[Undertoad]

Just wanted to ping the thread to say, the patch is out, and it improves the reliability and seems to address most of the problems.

I enjoy this game as something that is a little less requiring of my full attention. Sometimes it may feel like a tennis player playing ping pong, but I do like getting all the routes right and watching the towns grow into cities. It's more like model railroading than actual railroading, but model railroading has been a hobby for many people for years and years.

This is more imagination-based than strategy-based; just like The Sims, it calls for a certain amount of strategy, but the reward is not in developing the perfect strategy but in developing something interesting at the end of the play session.

Let's see, the only place I can get coal for my steel mill is halfway across the map... but if I get that line running well it will fuel my economy for the next 50 years... but the city already has three incoming routes and a big slow freight train will slow down this passenger route...

[cartman]

2K Games has released the original Railroad Tycoon as freeware. It is downloadable from their site:

hxxp://www.2kgames.com/railroads/railroads.html

[Mr. Wednesday]

So I tried out the demo, and was vexed by the occasional silliness of the routing. Being able to run double and triple parallel track is cool, but it doesn't really work right.