Front Office Football 2007 [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

Solecismic

10-26-2006, 04:15 PM

Solecismic Software is pleased to announce the upcoming release of Front Office Football 2007, the sixth edition of the award-winning professional football management simulation.

Front Office Football 2007 adds dozens of new features to the popular career management game, designed to bring as much information about your simulated football universe as possible to your fingertips. New features include an expanded play-by-play description format and Solevision, which provides you with up to 16 channels of text-based play-by-play, allowing you to fully immerse yourself in the recap of each week's contests.

Every player is now tracked in 135 individual season and playoff statistical categories, including Red Zone and Third Down situations. The stastics module now tracks 182 team and league statistics. The game-planning module was redesigned to give you much more control over your offense, defense and even special teams.

For more information about Front Office Football 2007, please visit http://www.FrontOfficeGames.com. The new game will go on sale Friday, October 27. A demonstration version of the product, which allows you to play up through the second week of the 2006 regular season, is now available.

Solecismic Software is an entertainment software company dedicated to producing cutting-edge career-play football simulations. Founded in 1998 by Jim Gindin, it has released seven football management games in nine years.

Dutch

10-26-2006, 04:16 PM

Congratulations!

And thank you! Woo-hoo!!!

Izulde

10-26-2006, 04:16 PM

My good day just got even better!

Eaglesfan27

10-26-2006, 04:17 PM

Awesome! Today was also a good day for me that just became much better. Congrats, Jim. :)

kingnebwsu

10-26-2006, 04:17 PM

Congrats Jim and good luck. Hopefully TCY 2 is next on your plate :)

MikeVic

10-26-2006, 04:17 PM

Omg!

Ben E Lou

10-26-2006, 04:18 PM

The new game will go on sale Friday, October 27.Best. News. Evah!

Congrats, Jim!!!

st.cronin

10-26-2006, 04:19 PM

BBCF, here I come.

Warhammer

10-26-2006, 04:19 PM

Will MP seasons carry over?

Castlerock

10-26-2006, 04:20 PM

Woo Hoo!!!

stevew

10-26-2006, 04:21 PM

omgwtfbbq!!!!

Sweetness.

MikeVic

10-26-2006, 04:22 PM

So when is a real roster being made? Or can we use the old ones?

Eaglesfan27

10-26-2006, 04:24 PM

Will MP seasons carry over?

My biggest question as well. Will MP leagues be able to import into this game?

Either way, I can't wait to buy it. Lots of the improved features sound good for SP as well as MP. Love the idea of interviewing (scouting) 60 rookies to find out more information about them, as well as many of the other new features.

Coop

10-26-2006, 04:24 PM

Wow tomorrow, cool beans

Brillig

10-26-2006, 04:25 PM

How are we supposed to hype this up to unrealistic expectations with only 24 hours lead time? Bad Jim! No biscuit!

:)

MikeVic

10-26-2006, 04:25 PM

Yeah I like some of the immersion additions as well. The live scoreboard, more stat tracking, the red flag (oh oh T.O.!!)...

Dutch

10-26-2006, 04:27 PM

Some of the new features are stunning. You've outdone yourself!

Izulde

10-26-2006, 04:27 PM

A couple of my fave new features:

Transactions tracked on Player Info Card
-This is huge for me! It's a big part of my immersion to know how players shift from team to team.

Rookie Interviews
-That just sounds awesome :D

stevew

10-26-2006, 04:29 PM

I think I'm too stupid to get the demo to work.

Honolulu_Blue

10-26-2006, 04:29 PM

Fantastic!

Though the timing could have been better. I just plunked down $30 for FM2007 and $59 for a year's subscription to GameTap. My gaming budget will be taking a serious hit in October.

Eaglesfan27

10-26-2006, 04:30 PM

Fantastic!

Though the timing could have been better. I just plunked down $30 for FM2007 and $59 for a year's subscription to GameTap. My gaming budget will be taking a serious hit in October.

Yeah, I just bought a new game today too. Oh well, the wife won't mind another purchase too much ;)

MikeVic

10-26-2006, 04:31 PM

Think there'll be a discount if you own the last version?

Fonzie

10-26-2006, 04:31 PM

Congratulations Jim!

stevew

10-26-2006, 04:33 PM

Figured out how to get it to work, I'm an idiot.

SnDvls

10-26-2006, 04:33 PM

wow a lot of post and only 15 mins after the announcement

congrats and thanks Jim

DaddyTorgo

10-26-2006, 04:33 PM

wtf!!!

i must have just missed the stickey when i loaded FF!!

Subby

10-26-2006, 04:34 PM

Jim - congratulations on this release! This is such great news.

Honolulu_Blue

10-26-2006, 04:34 PM

Yeah, I just bought a new game today too. Oh well, the wife won't mind another purchase too much ;)

It's good to be the primary bread-winner, eh? :D

stevew

10-26-2006, 04:35 PM

Wow, this is like the wet dream version of the options I wanted to see.

TurnerONU22

10-26-2006, 04:35 PM

I guess the recent ruling has led Jim to put the real players in the game, that's awesome!

PackerFanatic

10-26-2006, 04:35 PM

Very sweet, congrats Jim!

Warhammer

10-26-2006, 04:35 PM

Max. FG distance!!! The game plan screens are...awesome...

Logan

10-26-2006, 04:36 PM

Did I miss it...do we know the price on this? Or is Jim taking everyone up on the "I'll pay whatever I have to pay for it" option?

Subby

10-26-2006, 04:36 PM

Expanded Scouting Combine. Players are now rated in the broad jump and in a position-specific drill, in addition to the 40-yard dash, an agility drill, a strength test and an intelligence test. Scouts now take these results into account when forming their ratings. Some players may decide not to take part in the scouting combine.
http://www.thefobl.com/forums/images/smilies/fap.gif

TurnerONU22

10-26-2006, 04:37 PM

I like how you can designate player to not play on special teams, another nice little feature

hukarez

10-26-2006, 04:38 PM

Omg!

x2!!

:eek:

DaddyTorgo

10-26-2006, 04:39 PM

Warhammer

10-26-2006, 04:39 PM

Solevision!

TurnerONU22

10-26-2006, 04:40 PM

Solevision might be the best feature of this series in a LONG time, hands down

digamma

10-26-2006, 04:40 PM

like a thief in the night!

Congrats!

Logan

10-26-2006, 04:41 PM

Solevision!

Gotta say this seems really really cool.

Ben E Lou

10-26-2006, 04:41 PM

like a thief in the night!

Congrats!
Hey, I'M supposed to deliver that line!!! ;)

GoldenEagle

10-26-2006, 04:41 PM

Holy shit.

Ben E Lou

10-26-2006, 04:41 PM

New Features for Front Office Football 2007

The new version of Front Office Football includes dozens of new features, designed to bring as much information as possible to your fingertips. The new game features the following:

Solevision. Designed to bring you an entire week of Front Office Football action to one screen, Solevision provides you up to 16 exciting channels at once. You choose a channel and watch a game's play-by-play unfold, line by line. Solevision tracks the leaders in several statistical categories, tells you about scoring plays elsewhere in the league and gives you access to every game log and box score while the games are in progress. It's a new way to sit back and let the game come to you.
New Game Plans and Depth Charts. You now have much more control over the intricate details of your offense and defense. The new version separates out more yardage-to-go categories, and allows you more control over passing distance. You also have greater control over pass coverage, blitzing and minor tweaks you can make based on the game situation. With the new depth charts, you can specify major personnel changes for nickel, dime and goal-line situations.
Expanded Statistics. Every player is now tracked in 135 statistical categories, including Red Zone and Third-Down situations.
Expanded Team Statistics. The team statistics module was redesigned to show 182 different team statistics and league totals. You can now look back and view every year of team numbers for your universe.
Playoff Statistics. Individual playoff statistics are now tracked for players, both for single seasons and on the career statistics screen.
Expanded Scouting Combine. Players are now rated in the broad jump and in a position-specific drill, in addition to the 40-yard dash, an agility drill, a strength test and an intelligence test. Scouts now take these results into account when forming their ratings. Some players may decide not to take part in the scouting combine.
Weight Training. Before training camp, you may ask your players to bulk up or slim down a little. This will help them optimize their on-field performance or prepare for a position switch.
Summer League. Each season, you may send one of your young players to Europe to participate in the summer league. While those games aren't played in Front Office Football, players will gain experience and you will learn more about their abilities.
Wind Speed. The wind is now a factor in games, and you might see it affect on-field performance. Studies show that no weather factor influences football more than a strong breeze. Just ask any quarterback.
Blitz Pickup. You can now ask your tight end and running backs to stay in and help protect your quarterback from those pesky blitzing linebackers.
The Red Flag. A few players will receive the dreaded designation: Red Flag. Those players could create drama, leading to performance problems on the field.
Multi-Player Security. This was the most-requested feature during the past two years. Game files are now encrypted and password protected, so no one other than the commissioner can run the game as a commissioner, and participants can not look at old game plans from other teams.
Fatigue. Players who are overused could become tired and less able to do their best in the next contest.
Gridiron Greta. Each week during the season, Gridiron Greta will make available her report on the best players in the league. Yes, there's finally a tiny bit of sound (mute button available) in Front Office Football. Just a tiny bit. We don't like noisy games, either.
Player Transaction History. Transactions and Injuries are now tracked on each player's information screen.
Scouting Report. Scouting reports and game previews now contain a large set of team statistical rankings.
Nicknames. You can now give your players nicknames. Be nice. Blocks of binary data have feelings, too.
Veteran Minimum Salaries. The salary cap calculation now incorporates the veteran minimum rule, allowing you to keep older backups without huring your team's cap situation.
Rookie Interviews. Each season, you can interview up to 60 rookies before the annual amateur draft. You'll learn about their personalities, and get a better picture of their abilities.
The Grey Sheet. An annual list tracking the top 75 free agents in your league.
Team History Screen. A new screen giving you a quick look at your team's record and leading players statistically for each season of your career.
There's a lot that's new with Front Office Football. Download the Free Demo Version (http://www.solecismic.com/demo/index.php) of the game and give it a try.

Eaglesfan27

10-26-2006, 04:41 PM

so between FIFA 2007 which i just picked up today with some of my store credit from Circuit City and the FOF2007 Demo guess which is gonna get more playing time tonight?

fuck! and the game comes out tomorrow?!?! SWEEEEEEEET

I just picked up Marvel Ultimate Alliance, but I don't think it is even going to get opened tonight.. too much I need to read and see in the demo once I get home from work :)

Someone mentioned a ruling that allows Jim to have real player names? Somehow, I don't remember that ruling, but see that Skydog also confirmed real names in the demo. That is just a nice little bonus :)

sachmo71

10-26-2006, 04:43 PM

Did anyone find out about the fate of existing MP leagues in the new version?

Deattribution

10-26-2006, 04:45 PM

Congrats on the release.

The one thing I don't see listed, are we able to give our coaches extensions now?

Buccaneer

10-26-2006, 04:47 PM

Screenshots?

cartman

10-26-2006, 04:48 PM

Fanboys.

:D

Dutch

10-26-2006, 04:50 PM

The Play by Play is vastly improved, to say the least.

Logan

10-26-2006, 04:50 PM

Screenshots?

Plenty of em on the website.

MizzouRah

10-26-2006, 04:51 PM

NO MORE DOODLEBOPS!!

:)

Congrats Jim!!!! and Thank You!!!!!!

Buccaneer

10-26-2006, 04:51 PM

I did look but not in the margins. D'oh.

cartman

10-26-2006, 04:52 PM

I found the first bug. It has Terrell Owens' attitude as 'Content'.

:D

Ben E Lou

10-26-2006, 04:53 PM

New Features for Front Office Football 2007

Solevision. Designed to bring you an entire week of Front Office Football action to one screen, Solevision provides you up to 16 exciting channels at once. You choose a channel and watch a game's play-by-play unfold, line by line. Solevision tracks the leaders in several statistical categories, tells you about scoring plays elsewhere in the league and gives you access to every game log and box score while the games are in progress. It's a new way to sit back and let the game come to you.This sounds way cool!

New Game Plans and Depth Charts. You now have much more control over the intricate details of your offense and defense. The new version separates out more yardage-to-go categories, and allows you more control over passing distance. You also have greater control over pass coverage, blitzing and minor tweaks you can make based on the game situation. With the new depth charts, you can specify major personnel changes for nickel, dime and goal-line situations.Very much needed.

Expanded Statistics. Every player is now tracked in 135 statistical categories, including Red Zone and Third-Down situations.Me love dem stats!!!

Expanded Team Statistics. The team statistics module was redesigned to show 182 different team statistics and league totals. You can now look back and view every year of team numbers for your universe.BOO-yah! No more having to save all those summary reports!

Playoff Statistics. Individual playoff statistics are now tracked for players, both for single seasons and on the career statistics screen.Yeah, baby!

Expanded Scouting Combine. Players are now rated in the broad jump and in a position-specific drill, in addition to the 40-yard dash, an agility drill, a strength test and an intelligence test. Scouts now take these results into account when forming their ratings. Some players may decide not to take part in the scouting combine.Scouts take results into ratings. Some players not at the combine? WAHOOO!!!!

Weight Training. Before training camp, you may ask your players to bulk up or slim down a little. This will help them optimize their on-field performance or prepare for a position switch.Very nice!

Summer League. Each season, you may send one of your young players to Europe to participate in the summer league. While those games aren't played in Front Office Football, players will gain experience and you will learn more about their abilities.Get that rookie QB some time!

Wind Speed. The wind is now a factor in games, and you might see it affect on-field performance. Studies show that no weather factor influences football more than a strong breeze. Just ask any quarterback.Not a huge deal for me, but a nice addition.

Blitz Pickup. You can now ask your tight end and running backs to stay in and help protect your quarterback from those pesky blitzing linebackers."We don't have any running specialists."--Mark Richt. :mad:

The Red Flag. A few players will receive the dreaded designation: Red Flag. Those players could create drama, leading to performance problems on the field.Four words: Shaun "The Solution" Duncan

Multi-Player Security. This was the most-requested feature during the past two years. Game files are now encrypted and password protected, so no one other than the commissioner can run the game as a commissioner, and participants can not look at old game plans from other teams.Good!

Fatigue. Players who are overused could become tired and less able to do their best in the next contest.COOL!!!
Gridiron Greta. Each week during the season, Gridiron Greta will make available her report on the best players in the league. Yes, there's finally a tiny bit of sound (mute button available) in Front Office Football. Just a tiny bit. We don't like noisy games, either.Sounds???? You're kidding me! Greta??????Player Transaction History. Transactions and Injuries are now tracked on each player's information screen.YESSSS! Been wanting this one a long time.

Scouting Report. Scouting reports and game previews now contain a large set of team statistical rankings.Drool.Nicknames. You can now give your players nicknames. Be nice. Blocks of binary data have feelings, too."The Solution"

Veteran Minimum Salaries. The salary cap calculation now incorporates the veteran minimum rule, allowing you to keep older backups without huring your team's cap situation.Excellent.

Rookie Interviews. Each season, you can interview up to 60 rookies before the annual amateur draft. You'll learn about their personalities, and get a better picture of their abilities.This sounds like it could be tedious, or could be outstanding. Can't wait to get a feel for the implementation.

The Grey Sheet. An annual list tracking the top 75 free agents in your league.Much better than just seeing 20 at a time.Team History Screen. A new screen giving you a quick look at your team's record and leading players statistically for each season of your career.Man, this game just sounds like a stats junky's DREAM!

Daimyo

10-26-2006, 04:54 PM

w00t! I haven't touched the demo yet, but that feature set has me very excited. As long as existing MP leagues can import (doesn't sound like ratings changed much so it should be okay right?) this has the potential to really be a great release.

Vince

10-26-2006, 04:57 PM

Wow. This sounds amazing. So much for my nap.

Subby

10-26-2006, 04:57 PM

Any word on HTML enhancements for leagues?

SirFozzie

10-26-2006, 05:00 PM

Holy shit. How the fuck am I supposed to combine FM/WWSM2007 and FOF2007 with a normal life?

Oh well, goodbye life ;)

Vince

10-26-2006, 05:00 PM

"Right Click to show position experience chart" -- freaking sweet.

Position Change button now pops up a window with the following features when trying to change SF QB Alex Smith to a TE:

Height is above the average for this position.

Weight is above the average for this position.

Height is about average for the proposed position.

Weight is significantly below the average for the proposed position.

The player should gain weight before trying to make this move.

This is freaking awesome.

MizzouRah

10-26-2006, 05:00 PM

Who needs a stinkin demo? My credit card is patiently waiting. ;)

Ben E Lou

10-26-2006, 05:00 PM

Holy S***

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/BENJAM%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpghttp://www.solecismic.com/fofscreen/seasonrec2007.jpg

:eek:

http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))

Dutch

10-26-2006, 05:01 PM

Wow. This sounds amazing. So much for my nap.

Hell, it's midnight here...how the hell am I supposed to sleep? I'm gonna love my weekend, however. :)

Sweed

10-26-2006, 05:01 PM

Wow, what timing. Guess who's on vacation next week?:) :)

Congrats on the new game Jim, looks great.

Dutch

10-26-2006, 05:01 PM

Pyser

10-26-2006, 05:02 PM

it looks like multiplayer is the best thing that ever happened to fof.

lots of 3rd party stats and such have been incorporated into the new game. so fans enthusiasm really made a difference.

this is overwhelming...

one question, after a brief look, are mentors gone?

KJDelaney

10-26-2006, 05:03 PM

Great News. Except.

I was hoping for a new TCY. Thank god for BBCF.

digamma

10-26-2006, 05:03 PM

yada yada lots of praise...

but not one LLLLOOOOOVVVVVEEEEEEE IT!

Vince

10-26-2006, 05:06 PM

Special Teams Tackles is now a tracked stat, and field goals are tracked by distance -- FGM, FGA, 40+, 40+A, 50+, 50+A.

You can go to the depth charts from the roster screen. I think this might be my favorite change.

Buccaneer

10-26-2006, 05:06 PM

Holy S***

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/BENJAM%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpghttp://www.solecismic.com/fofscreen/seasonrec2007.jpg

:eek:

http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (http://javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (http://javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (http://javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (http://javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (http://javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (http://javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (http://javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (http://javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (http://javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (http://javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (http://javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))http://66.29.116.228/fof-ihof/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fap.gif (http://javascript:emoticon(':fap:'))

How does this compare to what VPI has done in IHOF?

FBPro

10-26-2006, 05:08 PM

Great, do crap around the house all day and look what I miss out on. No sleep tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Jim, couldn't have come at a better time.

Cuckoo

10-26-2006, 05:08 PM

By the way, for those asking about the MP league question, this is from the FAQ on the site:

Will I be able to import Front Office Football 2004 saved games into Front Office Football 2007?

There are so many differences in the data files that this is not practical. However, we understand that many established multi-player leagues have a significant history, and we'd like them to be able to enjoy the new product. This would be a significant problem for them. Within about two weeks after the release, we hope to have a utility ready to handle the conversion of a multi-player league. There will be significant gaps in the player and league history, but the game itself should function properly. Because of security concerns (we wouldn't want the utility to be used to hack the encryption in the data files), we will not be releasing this utility to the public. Instead, we will perform the conversion itself for commissioners of existing leagues and send them the new game files.

Eaglesfan27

10-26-2006, 05:10 PM

By the way, for those asking about the MP league question, this is from the FAQ on the site:

Ahh. Missed that. Thanks for the info. :)

Vince

10-26-2006, 05:12 PM

You can toggle players' active or inactive status from the roster screen without opening player cards by right clicking them. Woo :)

Emiliano

10-26-2006, 05:15 PM

Haven't read anything yet, but ...

woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

AlexB

10-26-2006, 05:16 PM

First major worry - depth charts don't show player ratings :( . Then... what does a right click do? Voila :) Very nice.

(Which I now see is actually written on the screen! I'll get me coat)

Northwood_DK

10-26-2006, 05:16 PM

And I was on the way to bed.

Congratulations Jim.

AlexB

10-26-2006, 05:17 PM

Also like the click on an injury and see what effect it has on performance & chance of reinjuring.

Eaglesfan27

10-26-2006, 05:18 PM

The FAQ also answered a few other questions from this thread:

Price is 39.95. Discount to those who purchased FOF 2004 in the last 6 months which seems fair to me. :)

MizzouRah

10-26-2006, 05:23 PM

The player card makes me want to run outside with my pants off.

BIG logo spot and seeing the players injury and transaction history is just well... getting my kleenex again.

Flasch186

10-26-2006, 05:26 PM

thank god /wipes brow

Will I be able to import Front Office Football 2004 saved games into Front Office Football 2007?

There are so many differences in the data files that this is not practical. However, we understand that many established multi-player leagues have a significant history, and we'd like them to be able to enjoy the new product. This would be a significant problem for them. Within about two weeks after the release, we hope to have a utility ready to handle the conversion of a multi-player league. There will be significant gaps in the player and league history, but the game itself should function properly. Because of security concerns (we wouldn't want the utility to be used to hack the encryption in the data files), we will not be releasing this utility to the public. Instead, we will perform the conversion itself for commissioners of existing leagues and send them the new game files.

Antmeister

10-26-2006, 05:26 PM

Sniffle.....I almost burst out in song! Hip hop hurray!!!!

chinaski

10-26-2006, 05:28 PM

i pee'd a little =0

Kodos

10-26-2006, 05:28 PM

Excellent! Thanks Jim!

Raiders Army

10-26-2006, 05:29 PM

Tomorrow's the 27th right? Guess I know what I'm doing.

cthomer5000

10-26-2006, 05:29 PM

F*** YES

Icy

10-26-2006, 05:30 PM

Wow, i decided to work hard one day and not to check FOFC in a few hours and now that i was going to bed i see the anouncement!! can't wait for tomorrow!

Joe

10-26-2006, 05:30 PM

so if a league converts the file to 2007 and not all people in the league upgrade to the new game.. are they fucked?

Flasch186

10-26-2006, 05:32 PM

so if a league converts the file to 2007 and not all people in the league upgrade to the new game.. are they fucked?

I would imagine. I would expect all league's and their members to upgrade when possible as long as bugs are worked out.

Raiders Army

10-26-2006, 05:36 PM

And I was on the way to bed.

Congratulations Jim.

Congratulations him? Congratulations us!!!!

Gallifrey

10-26-2006, 05:39 PM

This is cool. Great to see.

Joe

10-26-2006, 05:58 PM

are MP leagues able to sim 1 game at a time in this version, or are they all done at the same time again?

JeffW

10-26-2006, 06:03 PM

I'm not sure how enthused I am about league conversion. A team that's built well for FOF 2004 may be inappropriately built for FOF 2007. Seems better to just start from scratch.

JeeberD

10-26-2006, 06:09 PM

Out-freakin-standing! I can't wait to get my hands on this sucker!

The only problem is that I'm going to Tulsa to watch UTEP play tomorrow night. Would it be horrible of me to stand my bro and sis up to stay at home, play FOF2k7, and watch the game on the tube instead?

cuervo72

10-26-2006, 06:11 PM

I would imagine. I would expect all league's and their members to upgrade when possible as long as bugs are worked out.

Maybe. It really depends on how good the conversion is (though not much), and how the "amenities" are. IHOF for instance (and to a lesser extent FOFL) has much of it's history on-line. With increased security, I'm not sure what will be available in the way of things like Interrogator to go into the game's db and grab things. No offense to Jim's html, but there are some things that just can't be done with it really (sortable stats for instance). So I'm hoping there is some .csv export of stats (like with OOTP2k6), or the db is such that data can be extracted.

Leagues *can* survive without upgrading - FOBL skipped OOTP 6 and 6.5 entirely, and is still on v5.

Ben E Lou

10-26-2006, 06:12 PM

cuervo72

10-26-2006, 06:12 PM

Oh, and:

:clap:

Great news.

(is the NFLPA in on this??)

NoMyths

10-26-2006, 06:16 PM

Glad to see this, Jim.

kiwiLB57

10-26-2006, 06:23 PM

Legend. This is still my most played series ever. Looking forward to this new installment..

Front Office Midget

10-26-2006, 06:27 PM

Ahhhh this looks sweet. Proly won't buy it right away, but eventually it will be awesome. Very excited for this and Total Extreme Wrestling 2007.

gstelmack

10-26-2006, 06:28 PM

Any word on if Solevision will let me view game logs after they've been simmed, and without me having to see the score first?

I'll download the demo tonight and check it out before asking more questions about how many of my utilities have been (thankfully) obsoleted...

Warhammer

10-26-2006, 06:30 PM

I'm not sure how enthused I am about league conversion. A team that's built well for FOF 2004 may be inappropriately built for FOF 2007. Seems better to just start from scratch.

This might not be an all-together unreasonable thought.

Maple Leafs

10-26-2006, 06:30 PM

Jim has updated his web site with references to Front Office Football 2007. Does anyone else think this could be a hint about his next release?

Front Office Midget

10-26-2006, 06:32 PM

Height/Weight didn't affect player performance in the past. It looks like it will now?

jaygr

10-26-2006, 06:32 PM

Congrats Jim, and thanks!

dbd1963

10-26-2006, 06:33 PM

Looks excellent! Thanks Jim!!

jbmagic

10-26-2006, 06:33 PM

Wow

This is my favorite sim game. I enjoy FOF 2004 a lot.

Thanks so much Jim

RedKingGold

10-26-2006, 06:38 PM

one question, after a brief look, are mentors gone?

Mentors are still mentioned in the help file under Team Roster screen, but I have yet to find any in the demo.

Still, I think he would have taken it out of the help file if it were not in the game

Warhammer

10-26-2006, 06:38 PM

Stud CBs are going to be at a much greater premium now with the improved coverage schemes. Also, notice they have some effect on run d as well.

KWhit

10-26-2006, 06:40 PM

Congrats Jim. But I can't believe you announced the game today and are releasing it tomorrow! Hasn't anyone taught you anything about MARKETING?!?!?!?

Kidding.

;)

Looking forward to it!

cuervo72

10-26-2006, 06:40 PM

Mentors are still mentioned in the help file under Team Roster screen, but I have yet to find any in the demo.

Still, I think he would have taken it out of the help file if it were not in the game

I also wonder what changes there might be in the way of team leaders. Looking at Philly, rookie Jeremy Bloom is listed as the WR leader. :D

TroyF

10-26-2006, 06:40 PM

FM2007 on the laptop
FOF2007 on the desktop
Plans to get a life? On hold.

Woo hoo. . .

RedKingGold

10-26-2006, 06:42 PM

SirFozzie

10-26-2006, 06:49 PM

Hopefully someone comes up with a tool to use Solevision in MP leagues.. Imagine tuning in to a host computer, and see the 1:00, 4:00 and Sunday/Monday night games play out in order :)

amdaily

10-26-2006, 06:51 PM

The 'ok' button stays greyed out for me in the new game dialog. Am I missing something?

ISiddiqui

10-26-2006, 06:51 PM

Huh... well, this was unexpected. Now I can start indulging again in the sole reason I'm on this board in the first place (all hate mail to Jim ;))

Ben E Lou

10-26-2006, 06:54 PM

Mentors are still mentioned in the help file under Team Roster screen, but I have yet to find any in the demo.

Still, I think he would have taken it out of the help file if it were not in the gameIf I recall, they weren't in the FOF2004 demo, either. I think they kick in during FA1 of year 2.

RedKingGold

10-26-2006, 06:57 PM

If I recall, they weren't in the FOF2004 demo, either. I think they kick in during FA1 of year 2.

You are correct

Vince

10-26-2006, 06:57 PM

There is a seasonal rust rating now, as well.

Draft Dodger

10-26-2006, 06:58 PM

Jim has updated his web site with references to Front Office Football 2007. Does anyone else think this could be a hint about his next release?

this is why I have the hots for you

yabanci

10-26-2006, 06:58 PM

The 'ok' button stays greyed out for me in the new game dialog. Am I missing something?

make sure the league ID has 8 characters.

Ben E Lou

10-26-2006, 06:59 PM

There is a seasonal rust rating now, as well.Where is that?

mckerney

10-26-2006, 07:09 PM

(is the NFLPA in on this??)

With the recent rulings on fantasy sports being able to use stats without paying for them, I'd guess it'd not necessary to have the PA in on using players names.

mckerney

10-26-2006, 07:09 PM

Where is that?

I've seen and and think it's located on the player card near Health

jbmagic

10-26-2006, 07:12 PM

Playoff Statistics. Individual playoff statistics are now tracked for players, both for single seasons and on the career statistics screen.

Awesome

I wish that exhibition games will have stats save too for the players.

KWhit

10-26-2006, 07:13 PM

Hopefully someone comes up with a tool to use Solevision in MP leagues.. Imagine tuning in to a host computer, and see the 1:00, 4:00 and Sunday/Monday night games play out in order :)

I'm thinking you won't need to do it like that. I imagine that you just download the mp file like you normally do and then go to the Solevision and let it roll.

JeeberD

10-26-2006, 07:18 PM

From the background screen:

"This year's champion: Gregory G."

Awwwwww... :)

Senator

10-26-2006, 07:23 PM

Congrats Jim.

cartman

10-26-2006, 07:23 PM

From the background screen:

"This year's champion: Gregory G."

Awwwwww... :)

Cool!!! I'm the champion!!!

Although I was only called Gregory when I was a kid and my mom was yelling at me. :D

Oh, you mean there could be someone else he is referring to?

kingfc22

10-26-2006, 07:23 PM

Well shit. Just got home from work and this is what I get to see.

WAHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gottimd

10-26-2006, 07:25 PM

Aren't there usually other "hidden gems" that are new as well?

I just pooped myself when I got home from work and saw this. I thought it was a joke, and I am sitting here laughing in excitement as I see the screenshots.

I wonder if a majority of my NAFL excel generated reports can now be run through the ingame?

Does the "Create HTML" export all of the new screens too?

yabanci

10-26-2006, 07:32 PM

The play-by-play is such a monumental improvement. I love both the play descriptions and the suspense of the way they unfold, unlike past versions where the entire play result was plastered up there at once.

And the fact that you can load multiplayer games, hide all the spoilers, and watch the games play out in-game on solevision.....this is exactly what I had hoped for, brilliantly implemented. This will make multiplayer so much more immersive.

I couldn't be happier with what I've seen so far in the demo. I can't wait to see the new draft features and the rest of it.

NickSaban

10-26-2006, 07:35 PM

Raiders Army

10-26-2006, 07:40 PM

I'm happy with the improvements and consider this an acceptable upgrade to FOF 2004 (with updates). If Jim had just added more stat tracking, I'd have been meh...however, with the new look to the draft, etc. it's a considerable change from FOF 2004 (with updates). Not to drag out the past, but EA Sports could stand to learn from this model...maybe they'd have happier customers.

Me happy.

gottimd

10-26-2006, 07:40 PM

Anyone else see any other gems? What comes out in the "create HTML", can someone host and post?

Ben E Lou

10-26-2006, 07:41 PM

What comes out in the "create HTML", can someone host and post?It isn't available in the demo. I'm sure it'll get hosted and posted very quickly tomorrow.

gottimd

10-26-2006, 07:43 PM

It isn't available in the demo. I'm sure it'll get hosted and posted very quickly tomorrow.

Damn. I have a ton of reports that I do based off of the HTML output for the NAFL. I am sure they will have to change or maybe they are obsolete. Also, I wonder how the FOF Extractor will react to this?

Bad-example

10-26-2006, 07:44 PM

Congratulations, Jim. Looking forward to giving the full version a try.

Pumpy Tudors

10-26-2006, 07:47 PM

I'm tempted to buy tomorrow, but I'll probably wait for the first patch to come out. I will be buying it anyway, even though FOF 2004 didn't get very much attention on my machine.

Have fun, guys! :)

FBPro

10-26-2006, 07:48 PM

FM2007 on the laptop
FOF2007 on the desktop
Plans to get a life? On hold.

Woo hoo. . .

FM2007 on both
FOF2007 on both

what to play?
:)

These are the fun choices we make.

cartman

10-26-2006, 07:51 PM

FM2007 on both
FOF2007 on both

what to play?
:)

These are the fun choices we make.

God bless Dual Core CPUs...

:D

Anthony

10-26-2006, 07:52 PM

this is great news. tomorrow nite is gonna be a long nite for me.

cuervo72

10-26-2006, 07:53 PM

With the recent rulings on fantasy sports being able to use stats without paying for them, I'd guess it'd not necessary to have the PA in on using players names.

Occurred to me as well, but Jim isn't really using player stats, but is giving them attributes (in the form of ratings, etc). I didn't know if that was covered or not.

Craptacular

10-26-2006, 07:55 PM

I know if I download the demo and or/game, the MOMENT the main screen comes up the first time, my wife's water will break. I must resist ...

miami_fan

10-26-2006, 07:56 PM

*Sniff Sniff* FOFC is now going to be filled with conversation about...............

FOF:D

Congrats Jim

gottimd

10-26-2006, 08:01 PM

I like when looking to sign someone, you can filter on such things as "Any Defensive Lineman".

gottimd

10-26-2006, 08:02 PM

I wonder if you can renegotiate with Staff in this version before their contract is up?

Football Outsiders? I wonder if playoff scenarios are a hidden in here. I feel like a kid in a candy store.

Daimyo

10-26-2006, 08:08 PM

Boo. Log files and box scores no longer appear to be stored in plain text format. IMO that's actually a huge step backwards for MP immersion. Hopefully the MP html export will include them...

wade moore

10-26-2006, 08:10 PM

Good news! I'm excited about this feature list.

cuervo72

10-26-2006, 08:11 PM

Oh sweet, you have nickel and dime depth charts, so you can control which LB is pulled. Awesome.

I also like the breakdown of all the gameplanning so far. It will prove me to be an idiot eventually, but I like it. :D

I also noticed that if you are running a 3-4, you set 3 line positions and 4 LB positions (only one DT set of slots is displayed), and in the 4-3 you only have 3 sets of slots for LB. CB backups are set as well rather than just nickel and dime. Nice improvements.

yabanci

10-26-2006, 08:11 PM

cuervo72

10-26-2006, 08:12 PM

Boo. Log files and box scores no longer appear to be stored in plain text format. IMO that's actually a huge step backwards for MP immersion. Hopefully the MP html export will include them...

How are they stored? Or are they just generated on the fly more or less from pieced together db information (lines of player/game data)?

cartman

10-26-2006, 08:13 PM

Boo. Log files and box scores no longer appear to be stored in plain text format. IMO that's actually a huge step backwards for MP immersion. Hopefully the MP html export will include them...

I don't get this. How does HTML vs TXT affect immersion? One you view with notepad in black and white, the other you view in a brower that has the capability for color coding. It would seem to me that if anything HTML would be more immersive.

gstelmack

10-26-2006, 08:20 PM

There is an option in Global Options to turn off sim results to avoid seeing spoilers.

That option doesn't seem to do anything? I still see scores in the Simulation Window and when pressing "Simulate". Is it broken, or did I miss another place that I should be looking at to see the game results?

Edit: Never mind. Bug in the demo where changing it with a game loaded has no effect. Off to report...

heardie

10-26-2006, 08:22 PM

So Solevision is basically this: I can sim through a week and record all scores, but not view them

Then I can do into Solevision and watch the PBP of the game, and check all other games?

Mad...

cuervo72

10-26-2006, 08:22 PM

I don't get this. How does HTML vs TXT affect immersion? One you view with notepad in black and white, the other you view in a brower that has the capability for color coding. It would seem to me that if anything HTML would be more immersive.

Hrm. It might depend on how Jim stores these after the fact. If only the current one is kept around as "lastboxlog.html", that's not good. But it is very easy for instance to upload txt files to a site, they are of a standard format, and are small. Easily parseable. One reason I've wanted to develop things for the FOFL website isn't because Jim's html doesn't have info in there - there is a good amount of info there. But it isn't flexible. It isn't always easy to navigate. And quite frankly...it's usually pretty darned ugly. If the html was coded with css, this might be easily fixable. Looks like there are font tags and bgcolor tags all over the place though. :)

Samdari

10-26-2006, 08:23 PM

but solevision is a huge step forward.

Yeah, if you can indeed just load a league file and watch the week in solevision, it is definitely the best presentation improvement in the series.

I'll be honest, I have been hankering for a TCY update, and was lukewarm on a new FOF, but the feature list and demo have wowed me like no other version of this game since the first one I played.

Congratulations on the release Jim, this looks to be an amazing piece of work.

RedKingGold

10-26-2006, 08:25 PM

That option doesn't seem to do anything? I still see scores in the Simulation Window and when pressing "Simulate". Is it broken, or did I miss another place that I should be looking at to see the game results?

It worked for me.

http://www.fof-gefl.com/upload/RedKingGold/fof2007.bmp

Notice how the scores are blanked out and there is no indication of the winner (this is after the sim was run)

Daimyo

10-26-2006, 08:26 PM

How are they stored? Or are they just generated on the fly more or less from pieced together db information (lines of player/game data)?
It looks like they are stored in proprietary binary files in the universe folder in files like the following:

gameid1.2006
gameid2.2006
gameid3.2006

When you click on view log or view box score in game it creates an html file with the info for that one specific game. Hopefully the MP html export will have a single html for each game log and box score.

Buccaneer

10-26-2006, 08:27 PM

but the feature list and demo have wowed me like no other version of this game since the first one I played.

I would expect the feature list of adding MP was up there. ;)

Daimyo

10-26-2006, 08:28 PM

I don't get this. How does HTML vs TXT affect immersion? One you view with notepad in black and white, the other you view in a brower that has the capability for color coding. It would seem to me that if anything HTML would be more immersive.
The thing is that they are not stored in html... the html is generated only for the most recent box score or log file you view. The actual info is stored in binary files. The new system works well for people who only ever look at them in game, but it makes it much harder to write utilities to parse them and thus stifles 3rd party tools. I'm sure Jim had to move to the binary files to implement Solevision so I can understand why he did it, but I wish there was an option to also store them the old-fashioned way or to at least export them out of the binaries.

Daimyo

10-26-2006, 08:32 PM

So Solevision is basically this: I can sim through a week and record all scores, but not view them

Then I can do into Solevision and watch the PBP of the game, and check all other games?

Mad...

There is an option in the Global Options screen that will disable showing scores in the schedule overview screen.

cartman

10-26-2006, 08:44 PM

The thing is that they are not stored in html... the html is generated only for the most recent box score or log file you view. The actual info is stored in binary files. The new system works well for people who only ever look at them in game, but it makes it much harder to write utilities to parse them and thus stifles 3rd party tools. I'm sure Jim had to move to the binary files to implement Solevision so I can understand why he did it, but I wish there was an option to also store them the old-fashioned way or to at least export them out of the binaries.

Oh, that's where I was mistaken. I thought that they were a straight HTML file, not generated on the fly. We'll have to wait until tomorrow to see, but maybe there is a way to generate the straight file to post on a website.

cuervo72

10-26-2006, 08:46 PM

It looks like they are stored in proprietary binary files in the universe folder in files like the following:

gameid1.2006
gameid2.2006
gameid3.2006

When you click on view log or view box score in game it creates an html file with the info for that one specific game. Hopefully the MP html export will have a single html for each game log and box score.

Ah, I see. 'gameid' is 'foflfoot' or 'ihof0001' for instance, and then the number is the number of the game? If so that's a big improvement at least (both from a log naming standpoint, and that there might be id's somewhere that can be pulled and used as keys in a db).

kingfc22

10-26-2006, 09:01 PM

So any chance of breaking the record of most users online tomorrow when the game is released?

gottimd

10-26-2006, 09:02 PM

So any chance of breaking the record of most users online tomorrow when the game is released?

Who will be online in the forum? Everyone will be playing the game, not on the forum.

gottimd

10-26-2006, 09:04 PM

wade moore

10-26-2006, 09:06 PM

RedKingGold

10-26-2006, 09:06 PM

I assume the IHOF will be the first MP league to convert over that has an extensive history to the league. Can the commishes and GM's let the rest of us know how the transistion goes and what to expect?

Probably a bad assumption. They're about to start a new season over there and will probably not switch over until at least that is done (probably about another 3 months real time).

We're in the same boat over at the GEFL as we're about to wrap up our off-season.

So, its very likely another league would switch over before they did first.

Ben E Lou

10-26-2006, 09:08 PM

Probably a bad assumption. They're about to start a new season over there and will probably not switch over until at least that is done (probably about another 3 months real time).

We're in the same boat over at the GEFL as we're about to wrap up our off-season.

So, its very likely another league would switch over before they did first. Playoffs start this Monday, and IHOF Bowl is the following Monday.

Joe

10-26-2006, 09:10 PM

Galaxy

10-26-2006, 09:11 PM

This is almost as good as getting laid.

gottimd

10-26-2006, 09:14 PM

Well damn was I wrong. Who will be the first MP league to transistion? We are mid-season so that is not a good point to do it either. Any Leagues about to end the post season?

Joe

10-26-2006, 09:15 PM

Well damn was I wrong. Who will be the first MP league to transistion? We are mid-season so that is not a good point to do it either. Any Leagues about to end the post season?

make the PFL do it

cthomer5000

10-26-2006, 09:18 PM

wade moore

10-26-2006, 09:18 PM

Well damn was I wrong. Who will be the first MP league to transistion? We are mid-season so that is not a good point to do it either. Any Leagues about to end the post season?

I think the likely candidates really are leagues 1/2 - 3/4 through the season. Leagues about to go into the off-season are bad candidates because the game is so new still, it's the people going to the off-season 4-6 weeks from now that I expect to go first.

gottimd

10-26-2006, 09:20 PM

do we look like guinea pigs? we'll make you all do the testing for us, baby. we just be that elite. maybe the fastfl is available.

Ok.....it works fine. Your turn.:D

Raiders Army

10-26-2006, 09:29 PM

This is almost as good as getting laid.

make the PFL do it

Heh.

Daimyo

10-26-2006, 09:30 PM

Ah, I see. 'gameid' is 'foflfoot' or 'ihof0001' for instance, and then the number is the number of the game? If so that's a big improvement at least (both from a log naming standpoint, and that there might be id's somewhere that can be pulled and used as keys in a db).
I was thinking of that earlier trying to think positively about this... moving to binary log files could mean he uses player IDs instead of names which would be pretty sweet once we decode the files.

Poli

10-26-2006, 09:30 PM

Sigh. I'm happy with FOF, though I'd much rather have TCY. :(

Ksyrup

10-26-2006, 09:31 PM

You last visited: Today at 05:07 PM

:mad:

OK, now that that's out of the way...time to read about the great news!

http://ironpoet.com/boards/Smileys/default/occasion14.gif

General Mike

10-26-2006, 09:54 PM

This announcement made a pretty shitty day for me a little better.

wade moore

10-26-2006, 09:55 PM

This announcement made a pretty shitty day for me a little better.

ditto.

I could personally be responsible for people like Dutch and ae not being very happy, but I can't really talk about what I mean here..

nilodor

10-26-2006, 10:35 PM

Sounds great, can't wait.

SunDevil

10-26-2006, 10:37 PM

Is there going to be an option to have different graphical skins, like FM?

Schmidty

10-26-2006, 10:37 PM

Meh. :(

We needed TCY2. I probably won't buy FOF2004.5 for any reason other than nostalgia.

Eaglesfan27

10-26-2006, 10:40 PM

Meh. :(

We needed TCY2. I probably won't buy FOF2004.5 for any other reason other than nostalgia.

2004.5? Seems like this feature list is the biggest upgrade outside of the addition of MP. I feel like I will be getting great bang for my buck based on this feature set.

wade moore

10-26-2006, 10:44 PM

2004.5? Seems like this feature list is the biggest upgrade outside of the addition of MP. I feel like I will be getting great bang for my buck based on this feature set.

Agreed. I can't see how this can be considered 2004.5 at ALL. I can maybe see how someone who plays SP might not be as interested in many of the features, but it is certainly a pretty dramatic feature list to me.

DaddyTorgo

10-26-2006, 10:47 PM

Agreed. I can't see how this can be considered 2004.5 at ALL. I can maybe see how someone who plays SP might not be as interested in many of the features, but it is certainly a pretty dramatic feature list to me.

even as a SP player I am very interested in this feature set. so that's not even a thought wade.

i think the "blah" people are really just jonesing for a new college football game and wouldn't be happy with anything but that.

wade moore

10-26-2006, 10:51 PM

even as a SP player I am very interested in this feature set. so that's not even a thought wade.

i think the "blah" people are really just jonesing for a new college football game and wouldn't be happy with anything but that.

I think even for SP it's impressive too, but I see for a certain style of player (like my interpretation of Bucc's style) that it may not have a ton more for them. What I mean by that is the quick-simmers.

That being said, not sure what you add for them.

Warhammer

10-26-2006, 10:55 PM

Agreed. After playing around with it, the changes are huge. Looks like I am whipping out the credit card tomorrow.

Warhammer

10-26-2006, 10:57 PM

I think even for SP it's impressive too, but I see for a certain style of player (like my interpretation of Bucc's style) that it may not have a ton more for them. What I mean by that is the quick-simmers.

That being said, not sure what you add for them.

The problem with the quick sim crowd is what exactly are you looking for? The main purchasers of a text sim are pretty hardcore, so they are going to eat this up. If you are looking for just a sim engine without a lot of meat to it, I don't know where you go.

RGunner

10-26-2006, 10:57 PM

any idea how much this will cost? just downloaded the demo and im having a blast...

DaddyTorgo

10-26-2006, 10:58 PM

well quick simmers definately get more stats tracked and added, more immersive "universe" if you will.

game will cost 39.95 according to the FAQ on the website

wade moore

10-26-2006, 10:58 PM

The problem with the quick sim crowd is what exactly are you looking for? The main purchasers of a text sim are pretty hardcore, so they are going to eat this up. If you are looking for just a sim engine without a lot of meat to it, I don't know where you go.

Yeah, that's essentially what I'm trying to say.

Since I'm not one of those, I'm not sure what could be added.

Deattribution

10-26-2006, 11:10 PM

Personally, I quick sim mostly til the playoffs - extended statistics (playoffs is big addition), transaction list and the draft additions sound like they should be fun and add to the game.

More importantly, I'm hoping that the game has a tighter FA AI, if the other teams more correctly control their caps and the players they have I'm happy with that alone.

sabotai

10-26-2006, 11:15 PM

I think even for SP it's impressive too, but I see for a certain style of player (like my interpretation of Bucc's style) that it may not have a ton more for them. What I mean by that is the quick-simmers.

I guess I fall into that camp (I don't call my own plays in SP), but I see the value in this new version. The added stats (which will be very helpful since I don't actually watch my games) and the new gameplan (which, on the surface, looks to be a HUGE improvement over the last one, which got very cumbersome very quickly for me) will make it a worthwhile purchase IMO. With the gameplans, I just let the AI handle them since I didn't want to deal with it. This looks oh so much better. The other features are added gravy.

amdaily

10-26-2006, 11:16 PM

wade moore

10-26-2006, 11:17 PM

I guess I fall into that camp (I don't call my own plays in SP), but I see the value in this new version. The added stats (which will be very helpful since I don't actually watch my games) and the new gameplan (which, on the surface, looks to be a HUGE improvement over the last one, which got very cumbersome very quickly for me) will make it a worthwhile purchase IMO. With the gameplans, I just let the AI handle them since I didn't want to deal with it. This looks oh so much better. The other features are added gravy.

fwiw, you don't sound like what i call a "quick-simmer". I'm talking about people that run through 4 and 5 seasons a sitting. They mainly do the GMing and really gloss-over a lot of the gameplanning details, etc.

DaddyTorgo

10-26-2006, 11:19 PM

I think the "blah" is attributed to the fact that the game just seems static. The immersion factor hasn't changed since FOF1.

While stat tracking and accuracy remain unmatched, even games like Baseball Mogul are surpassing it in terms of having player personalities that actually mean something, the TPB series in terms of interaction with the owners, and of course FM.

Won't stop me my buying, but was sort of expecting more.

i can see that, and i agree. but personally i play each of the different games expecting different things (well except for FM which is really the granddaddy and has it all, with the exception of the sheer time needed to invest in it). otherwise i select the game i'm playing based on what i want to get out of it.

Cap Ologist

10-26-2006, 11:19 PM

So, is there a beer tent?

Ryche

10-26-2006, 11:19 PM

This is setting up to be a great weekend. One of my favorite local breweries just put their beer in cans I can take home and now I can drink them while playing a new version of my favorite game.

Solecismic

10-26-2006, 11:20 PM

It's better in that aspect. I have noticed a problem with the cap exception in that some teams will, if they have an injury, do a sign-release of the same player in one week, usually late in the season.

I haven't eliminated that problem completely yet, so far it's a trade off - get teams operating closer to the cap, run into cap exception issues like that. There's a note in the help file (been there since FOF1, I think), about how the cap isn't always a hard cap during the season just so teams can always field a full lineup. You get assigned minimum salary rookies.

I just have to get two very large and complicated mechanisms (getting teams to field a roster that won't crash the game, which is priority 1 and takes precedence over other algorithms, and getting teams to release players when they are over the cap in season and can release a player, which is a lower priority function) to synch up properly. The new, more flexible, position assignment rules created more difficulty in the synching up of these two functions, which actually take up more than a thousand lines of code.

Deattribution

10-26-2006, 11:35 PM

Glad to hear it's better, the patches for 2004 helped tighten it up but there were still quite a few head scratchers at times. Players being mvp calibre talent and never even receiving an offer only to sign for the minimum at the beginning of the season.

I think the "blah" is attributed to the fact that the game just seems static. The immersion factor hasn't changed since FOF1.

While stat tracking and accuracy remain unmatched, even games like Baseball Mogul are surpassing it in terms of having player personalities that actually mean something, the TPB series in terms of interaction with the owners, and of course FM.

Won't stop me my buying, but was sort of expecting more.

I can agree with this (as stated in the other thread). I'll be purchasing and I'm sure I'll enjoy it - because I still enjoy FOF2004. It's one of the games where you spend so much time playing it that you want more even if it's almost just an 'expansion' of the existing game.

But, it's a formula where let's say there is another version next year, unless there is something that is really blow away I'll pass like I did on FOF4.

Subby

10-26-2006, 11:36 PM

Jim - can you give us any kind of MP HTML screenies? Please? :D

wade moore

10-26-2006, 11:38 PM

Jim - can you give us any kind of MP HTML screenies? Please? :D

I'm With Extremely Stupid.

Dekanth

10-26-2006, 11:59 PM

TroyF

10-27-2006, 12:12 AM

I've bought every Solecismic game since FOF2, and will probably end up buying this one at some point, but I am a bit disappointed in the feature list. MP and game planning seem to be a big emphasis, neither of which interest me in the least. I wasn't expecting, but still hoping for more customization instead, like variable league sizes, or expansion/contraction. I just can't seem to get excited about this, which saddens me. :(

Something like this just goes to show you can't please everyone. I fall in line with the "quick simmer" crowd. I can sim 5 or 6 seasons in an evening at times. This feature list is actually going to slow me down a lot and that isn't a bad thing. The increased stats are going to be amazing for me. The game plannning screens look so much better than before and the PBP is more detailed and far more interesting to watch. I'll watch far more games with this version than I ever have before.

I like the bigger logos as well. There were at least 15 things in that new feature list that had me drooling over the keyboard. And playing through a little of the demo tonight has increased, not decreased my anticipation.

I have zero doubt I'll get my 40 dollars worth out of this one.

Hurst2112

10-27-2006, 12:16 AM

Peregrine

10-27-2006, 12:18 AM

mckerney

10-27-2006, 12:29 AM

Hey,

Remember that guy who made some really cool backgrounds for FOF2K1? He made me a Steelers one that looked really awesome.

Who was it? Also, would you be able to get that detailed with the bigger logo size now?

Jim has put out several games around the time of my birthday. What a great present to myself!

I made this one for FOF2k4 (http://www.tc.umn.edu/~mcca0533/dolphinsbackground.bmp), I could probably put together a Steelers background sometime.

Karim

10-27-2006, 12:33 AM

Is Wheels still around? He made some awesome graphics for FOF2004...

Solecismic

10-27-2006, 12:47 AM

In terms of hours of work, this is probably the largest new version I've ever done. I didn't think I was catering only to the MP set. The Solevision/play-by-play isn't MP only, but it does favor the slow-simmer. The quick-simmer should get more out of the statistical expansion.

With the exception of the whiz-bang graphics set, who is never going to like FOF, I think there's a good representation of different features for different people. And sure, there are a couple of quick, cute throwaway things, like Gridiron Greta (I am going to get teased to no end for that one), but that's just to give the game a touch more color, something I think people will like after the initial "what the heck was he thinking" reaction because there is some substance behind it.

I don't think it's a good idea to judge every game by the same feature set evolution. I'm not going the personality interaction with owner/press route until I'm sure I can do it without it getting to be quickly boring or repetitive. That's something Marc does so well with FM, but he makes that a big focus in terms of staff man hours.

I'd like to do it, but not at the expense of other new development. In the meantime, there are a ton of things I can do - I could start a completely new version that would represent a major leap forward, but have nothing to do with media/owner interaction, with what I'd like to do, but ended up leaving out. Potential is limitless, and do any of us really want every single game to be a clone of every other game?

DaddyTorgo

10-27-2006, 12:50 AM

Is Wheels still around? He made some awesome graphics for FOF2004...

didn't he get drunk and kill a kid??

(degrassi reference)

yabanci

10-27-2006, 12:55 AM

I sure hope chemistry is based on something other than zodiac signs.

wade moore

10-27-2006, 12:56 AM

Potential is limitless, and do any of us really want every single game to be a clone of every other game?

Definately not. This feels like a Solecismic product and like the next logical step forward in that line. I totally agree that I don't want to just see you mimicing what everyone else has done.

Solecismic

10-27-2006, 01:11 AM

I sure hope chemistry is based on something other than zodiac signs.

I know you're not going to like this, because you're probably the harshest critic we have here at FOFC, but they are. Some slight changes were made, but the base computation is still the same.

I don't happen to believe in astrology. I think it's cute that some people think everyone born in the same 30-day period has the same personality and future, but the cuteness is as far as I go with it.

So why didn't I make the change? I did, actually. We started the beta with a new system in place. And people hated it. They found they were making dozens of offers to players just to see the box pop up saying "Player X likes this guy." So I went back to what I had.

Maybe I need to rethink chemistry entirely. As it stands now, people understand it, and adjust their thinking to build for it. When they fill their rosters with late-round chance players or minsalary free agents, they think astrology. And that's a substitute for consciously building good chemistry in the locker room. I enjoy it myself that way. I've made a little adjustment to the Recommend screen to make it even easier.

In the real world, maybe affinities and conflicts pop up over time, and it should be less frequent and more random. Maybe I'll try it that way next time, do away with the pop-up boxes and see how that works out in testing. I don't know. But I can guarantee you that the same type of system based on something less easily calculated than astrology will be far less enjoyable.

At any rate, I understand the complaint. I've understood it from day one, and that's why chemisty is one of the few features in the game that you can make disappear if you don't want to use it. When that feature is off, the game doesn't use chemistry at all, period.

Deattribution

10-27-2006, 01:25 AM

I know I don't really understand what all goes into calculating and programming the game, but couldn't it just be based on personality?

You know, low personality gets along with anything 60 and below, but hates 80-90+ and vice versa. 50's don't mind high or low.

Of course, maybe I'm misunderstanding the chemistry in terms of football aspects, but it just sounds like a more simplistic system that would be easier to play with. You know, do I want to sign player X with 90 personality when most of my team is low key 50 and below.

Hell, maybe it already working something similiar to this with personality, I don't know.

Solecismic

10-27-2006, 01:32 AM

Northwood_DK

10-27-2006, 01:43 AM

Will a player’s height and weight actually make a difference in this version?

Deattribution

10-27-2006, 01:45 AM

It could be based on anything. How many vowels are in your last name. Where you went to college. Your draft position plus 1/2 of your weight. Anything. Computers make those calculations a snap.

I view the personality trait as more strength of personality. Players with 30 or below are likely to get along with anyone, they don't care who is in the locker room. Players with 80 or above are likely to have closer bonds and stronger enemies.

If that's the case, then couldn't the system be used for both?

Strong personalities have major conflicts with those who have weak personalities , but also have the strongest affinities with the ones they click with. Weaker personalities do neither, never bonding or conflicting with anyone so they make easy teammates but lousy leaders on teams with alot of personality and character, since they overbear weaker personalities.

Basically just a suggestion as it gives a reason why one guy isn't getting along with the other beyond the sun and the moon alignment.

As far as the window popping up maybe it could be something made to be optional? I personally wouldn't have a problem taking a look at my linemen's personalities before I sign a player and see if they could coexist, as it's what any real gm would do.

Peregrine

10-27-2006, 01:45 AM

Will a player’s height and weight actually make a difference in this version?

Sure will, from what I've seen, there's an option to have a player gain or lose weight, it seems especially important when trying to move a player to a new position, you'll get messages like "He doesn't really have the height for that position" or "He needs to put on some weight to make this move."

Icy

10-27-2006, 03:26 AM

Sure will, from what I've seen, there's an option to have a player gain or lose weight, it seems especially important when trying to move a player to a new position, you'll get messages like "He doesn't really have the height for that position" or "He needs to put on some weight to make this move."

But I see it only used to determine if you can switch a player position and not having anything to do to the on the filed perfomance and plays calculations. Jim can correct me I I'm wrong.

yabanci

10-27-2006, 03:50 AM

I know you're not going to like this, because you're probably the harshest critic we have here at FOFC, but they are. Some slight changes were made, but the base computation is still the same.

I don't happen to believe in astrology. I think it's cute that some people think everyone born in the same 30-day period has the same personality and future, but the cuteness is as far as I go with it.

So why didn't I make the change? I did, actually. We started the beta with a new system in place. And people hated it. They found they were making dozens of offers to players just to see the box pop up saying "Player X likes this guy." So I went back to what I had.

Maybe I need to rethink chemistry entirely. As it stands now, people understand it, and adjust their thinking to build for it. When they fill their rosters with late-round chance players or minsalary free agents, they think astrology. And that's a substitute for consciously building good chemistry in the locker room. I enjoy it myself that way. I've made a little adjustment to the Recommend screen to make it even easier.

In the real world, maybe affinities and conflicts pop up over time, and it should be less frequent and more random. Maybe I'll try it that way next time, do away with the pop-up boxes and see how that works out in testing. I don't know. But I can guarantee you that the same type of system based on something less easily calculated than astrology will be far less enjoyable.

At any rate, I understand the complaint. I've understood it from day one, and that's why chemisty is one of the few features in the game that you can make disappear if you don't want to use it. When that feature is off, the game doesn't use chemistry at all, period.

yeah, my problem with it is I don't think team chemistry is so predictable and immediately apparent. I don't believe that real life GMs have some way to accurately predict who is going to get along with whom, and then make roster decisions based on that foreknowledge. I think it would be more realistic to not have the pop up box and perhaps not even know about the conflict immediately upon signing. Maybe you fork over a big bonus and then after training camp learn the player has a conflict, or maybe the conflict doesn't develop until you're late in the season fighting for a playoff spot (on the other side of the coin, maybe the strong affinity deveops late in the season and gives you that boost you really needed). It is the unexpected that makes things interesting. That's why we love booms and busts.

In my view, chemistry should be used to make game more difficult and unpredictable, forcing you to make hard decisions or screwing you after making what you believed to be a good decision (or giving you an unexpected bonus). To me, being able to look at a player's birthday and then consult an astrological chart to guarantee that you gain bonuses (affinities) and avoid penalties (conflicts) makes the game easier, more simplistic, and less realistic.

I'd rather see the personality rating be more like the volatility rating -- i.e., you look at a guy's volatility rating and know that if it's high, it might be great for you or might be terrible. There is a risk and you don't know how it's going to affect you before you make the decision. The same could be true with personality. If a player has a very strong personality, you know you might end up with a guy who is great for the team or a total disruption. It's a risk, but you don't know how it's going to play out until the deed is done. Meanwhile, you always have the red flag players who you know might be a problem. I don't see any risk with the astrological chart system, which is why I said I hope chemistry is not still based on the zodiac signs, but apparently some people like it.

...you're probably the harshest critic we have here at FOFC...

thanks for the compliment. I do my best :)

Vinatieri for Prez

10-27-2006, 03:52 AM

Yeah, the help file explains more, including defensive pass coverages (although there is a typo I think in discussing double coverage when it talks about covering the tight end, but I'm sure Jim means the split end).

Hip Hip Hooray!

Vinatieri for Prez

10-27-2006, 03:55 AM

And the gameplan changes are way better. Using the basic gameplan and then having a percentage shift based on current game situation was definitely the way to go. And only one run directional gameplan screen -- also excellent.

EagleFan

10-27-2006, 04:09 AM

Icy

10-27-2006, 04:32 AM

Dam you Jim! You wait until I am out of the country to announce this... ;)

Can I download a version to my work laptop and then transfer that license to home when I get back home?

Looking forward to this next version. I've more than played out the last version.

Yes you can with elicense, also you probably will be given two licenses or it has always been that way in the past.

Ben E Lou

10-27-2006, 04:43 AM

I'm with you TroyF, I'm mostly a quick simmer also, I have no interest in doing gameplanning and have basically never messed with it through several versions of FoF, but there are some great additions for me and I can't wait to buy it. The Solevision is a great addition for watching games and will really show off the improved PBP.
I still play both SP and MP and good bit, and I play the two with very, very different styles. In SP, I let the AI handle my depth charts from week to week usually. I glance at each box score for about 10 seconds to see how my skill players did, but that's it. I set up offensive and defensive gameplans in the first season, and never change them one iota; I just draft and sign players to fit my system. I never scout the opposition. I never look at game logs unless it is the Solecismic Bowl. For draftees, I ignore chemistry concerns, and let the AI sign my picks. I don't notice who I'm playing, or even the names of anyone on my team besides maybe my QB, top RB, and top WR. I try to get through several sittings in one setting. For this style, the stats tracking will make a *HUGE* difference. (One thing that always slowed me down was the need to print out team reports at the end of each season, because they weren't saved, for example.) If the draft AI and free agent AI show significant improvement, it sounds like I will be thrilled with the SP experience. The two things I would have liked to have seen to add to the experience for SP that don't appear to be in this version (and I know that these are large additions) would have been expansion, and the ability to sim multiple seasons with one click. However, the lack of these is by no means a deal-breaker for me.

With the slow pace of MP, I pay much more attention to the details, read my team's game logs AND the game logs of the teams in my division (mainly for scouting purposes), adjust the game plan nearly every single week, etc. etc. etc. For this style, Solevision will be huge.

Things I still wonder about...

Draft AI (far too easy to get good QB's in FOF2K4)
Roster building AI (Jim has acknowledge already that it got a good bit of attention, so that's definitely a good sign.)
Improved HTML output. (With all those new stats, I have to assume that it has been at least somewhat expanded).
Rust other than for the preseason (Will sitting your starters for a couple of weeks late in the season potentially hurt them in the playoffs, and will guys injured for more than a couple of weeks come back "rusty?")I'm sure there are other things, but those jump out at the moment as things that could have additional significant impact on the SP experience for me.

Honolulu Blue

10-27-2006, 04:44 AM

Sorry guys, but there just isn't much here for me. The features I can test now don't impress, and the features that I need or want to try out I can't test unless I buy.

marcmoustache

10-27-2006, 05:10 AM

Improved HTML output. (With all those new stats, I have to assume that it has been at least somewhat expanded).

I'd like to take this question further, is there any chance that FOF2007 can do what OOTP2006 does and allow an csv/text stats dump out so that we don't have to go with the game html or write utils to process the boxscores/gamelogs?

I don't want to see the game mechanics but a suite of text files that link player records, salaries, transactions, injuries, etc - i.e. everything you can see in the game, would make the MP experience much better.

Cheers

Marc.

AlexB

10-27-2006, 05:34 AM

This is almost as good as getting laid.

Either you are crap in the sack, or get a hell of a lot more out of a computer game than I do :D

AlexB

10-27-2006, 05:41 AM

I think even for SP it's impressive too, but I see for a certain style of player (like my interpretation of Bucc's style) that it may not have a ton more for them. What I mean by that is the quick-simmers.

That being said, not sure what you add for them.

I am in the quick simmer SP category, and I'd go with the FOF2004.5 description at first glance.

It looks easier to use, has a few nice wrinkles, Solevision is a nice touch but will I actually use it in my style of play? I will likely buy it, but the roster building side seems to be basically the same game, with some of the more annoying elelments removed, with a few knobs and whistles... Can't say I'm not slightly disappointed there's not a waiver system and harsher cap included, but I can see why this might not make everybody enjoy the game.

The big thing for my style will be how at the end of the season the AI teams make release/resign decisions, and general trade & FA decisions throughout the game. If these are much improved I take most of the above back :)

On the other hand I might just have to work to overcome the fact that I seem to be looking at a table of numbers on gameplanning screens to get maximum benefit from the new changes. A tthe moment I look at these screens and :confused:

marcmoustache

10-27-2006, 05:48 AM

Another question - will we be able to structure the league how we like, or is it set 32 teams, 8 divisions, etc.?

AlexB

10-27-2006, 05:49 AM

Ok having read the rest of the thread, and seeing Jim & SD's posts, sounds like most of the areas I was hoping for improvement may well be better, so fingers crossed...

wade moore

10-27-2006, 06:17 AM

Ok having read the rest of the thread, and seeing Jim & SD's posts, sounds like most of the areas I was hoping for improvement may well be better, so fingers crossed...

I was going to mention..

I would actually throw this out to Jim for whenever he wakes up and reads it - I think that the improvement to the FA AI potentially should be mentioned in the new features. I think many FOFers have had concerns about pieces of the FA AI (as far as CPU controlled teams) and that is a pretty big thing to them if significant overhauling has been done to improve that.

Ben E Lou

10-27-2006, 06:23 AM

I think that the improvement to the FA AI potentially should be mentioned in the new features.That's an excellent point. I'd agree, and say that if draft AI got a significant change, it should be mentioned in the list, too.

Bee

10-27-2006, 06:27 AM

wade moore

10-27-2006, 06:28 AM

I quick-sim and play SP so at first glance at the feature list I'm not very excited. I'll buy the game and I'm sure I'll get plenty of enjoyment out of it but I also get the FOF2004.5 feeling from my play style. Hopefully my impressions will change once I get the full experience of the game.
I figure even for folks that play this way, the sheer $$'s to play time of 2004 + 2007 makes it so most will not have any problem making the purchase anyways ;).

Ksyrup

10-27-2006, 06:57 AM

Gridiron Greta (I am going to get teased to no end for that one)

If she's a Leo, I'll let it pass.

Bee

10-27-2006, 07:17 AM

I figure even for folks that play this way, the sheer $$'s to play time of 2004 + 2007 makes it so most will not have any problem making the purchase anyways ;).

Yep, I agree. From my point of view, FOF is the best football game available and I'm sure this version will be worth the price of admission. I may not be nearly as excited as some others about the feature list, but I'll definitely be buying the game.

Pumpy Tudors

10-27-2006, 07:29 AM

I'm still on the fence as to whether I'll buy this today or wait for a patch. Given the feature list, it might just be enough to get me into MP (which I didn't even attempt with FOF2004). As far as SP, I quick-sim sometimes and actually call plays the other times. I'm not much for structured gameplanning. I like to do it on the fly during a game, so that's why I call plays. I think this game will have a lot for me in it, so now it's just a matter of deciding when I'm going to buy it.

Barkeep49

10-27-2006, 07:33 AM

Yep, I agree. From my point of view, FOF is the best football game available and I'm sure this version will be worth the price of admission. I may not be nearly as excited as some others about the feature list, but I'll definitely be buying the game.
This sums up my reaction as well.

gottimd

10-27-2006, 07:33 AM

wade moore

10-27-2006, 07:35 AM

Is the "Grey List" a list of all Free Agents to be at the end of the season that is updated as each week is simmed? If not, how is the grey list any different from the Free Agency weeks, other than the fact that it is filtered/sorted by the 75 top rated Free Agents?

My interpretation fo the screenshot is basically that last part.

It's sorted by the top 75 rated FA's using a "draft grade" like system to weight positions.

Ksyrup

10-27-2006, 07:36 AM

I'm a quick-simmer who likes to concentrate on the off-season functions, and I'll still be buying this when it comes out.

I'm hoping this game will kick-start my interest in text sims in general again, since I haven't been too enthusiastic about the hockey and baseball games that came out this year and last (this is the first year I haven't bought at least one baseball game), and didn't even feel interested enough in Arlie's games to give them a try, so I haven't been playing text sims much for the past couple of years. We'll see if that's more a function of my lack of interest in the particular games on the market, or whether I'm starting to get beyond the text sim genre as a whole. No pressure, Jim, really! :)

gottimd

10-27-2006, 07:46 AM

My interpretation fo the screenshot is basically that last part.

It's sorted by the top 75 rated FA's using a "draft grade" like system to weight positions.

Ah, that seems useless. I was hoping that it would be the top free agents to be, that way as the season goes along, you can see who may be on the market when the time comes for Free Agency. I do something like this in excel, where I take the contract end year for all rosters. Problem is, is that I don't have a rating system so I just use Contract Value to come up with the "Top Free Agents to Be" list.

Still curious about playoff scenarios too. I like that the Honors box now has career team rankings, according to the screenshot. It showed a guys as being 5th for Pittsburgh Pass Defense Pct.

cuervo72

10-27-2006, 08:36 AM

Maybe I need to rethink chemistry entirely. As it stands now, people understand it, and adjust their thinking to build for it. When they fill their rosters with late-round chance players or minsalary free agents, they think astrology. And that's a substitute for consciously building good chemistry in the locker room. I enjoy it myself that way. I've made a little adjustment to the Recommend screen to make it even easier.

I like chemistry. Sure it's not the most realistic implemenation, but heck, I don't know how you can really model it. So it suits me just fine.

If there is something like "exclude conflicts with leader" or "list only possible affinities" in the recommend screen (I'm assuming there isn't "list potential new leaders" or anything of that sort) - then WOOHOO! Now if we could have it figure that out for the draftees....

Cheesehead Craig

10-27-2006, 08:46 AM

Man, I feel sorry for the people with 4+ teams. How the hell can you immerse yourself in that many leagues and still be able to sleep?

dbd1963

10-27-2006, 08:46 AM

I am in the quick simmer SP category, ...

On the other hand I might just have to work to overcome the fact that I seem to be looking at a table of numbers on gameplanning screens to get maximum benefit from the new changes. A tthe moment I look at these screens and :confused:

This is exactly where I am. The demo doesn't seem as different to me because I've always just played as the GM. Maybe the full game -- check that, the stats ensure that the full game will make me happier. I would like to gameplan and call plays, but my short forays into it have proven that I totally sucked at it. And the one thing you can't get is a primer on how it should be done, because MP folks don't want to give away secrets.

I guess I may not be smart enough for this game. :(

(poor poor me where's my pity party?)

But I'm going to buy it. FOF has been by far my favorite game ever. I play it all the time (well, I used to until I got this Intel Mac laptop, have just been waiting for the new version to see if it'll run on Parallels, and if it doesn't, I kept an old P4 laptop for just this purpose..)