Microsoft Zune

[stevew]

Streets on 11/14 for 249.99.

Size and Weight
4.4 in. x 2.4 in. x 0.6 in. (h x w x d)
Weight: 5.6 ounces
Battery[2]
Music, up to 14 hours (wireless off), up to 13 hours (wireless on); pictures, up to 4 hours; video, up to 4 hours
Charge Time: 3 hours; 2 hours to 90%
Display
Size: 3.0 inches
Orientation: Vertical and Horizontal
Resolution: 320 x 240 pixels
Audio
Windows Media® Audio Standard (.wma): Up to 320 Kbps, CBR and VBR, up to 48-kHz sample rate
MP3 (.mp3): Up to 320 Kbps, CBR and VBR, up to 48-kHz sample rate
AAC (.mp4, .m4a, .m4b, .mov): Up to 320 Kbps, Low Complexity (LC), up to 48-kHz sample rate
Pictures
JPEG (.jpg): All resolutions (desktop software will automatically convert to 640x480 at sync time)
Video
Windows Media Video (.wmv): Main Profile, CBR or VBR, up to 1.5 Mbps peak video bitrate, 320 x 240 pixels, 30 frames per sec., with Windows Media Audio up to 192 Kbps, 44.1 kHz, stereo audio; Simple Profile, CBR, up to 736 Kbps video bitrate, 320 x 240 pixels, 30 frames per sec., with Windows Media Audio up to 192 Kbps, 44.1 kHz, stereo audio.
Wireless
Connectivity: 802.11 b/g
Range: Up to 30 feet

[stevew]

I'm sure I'll play around with the demo some at work. I have a passing interest in it, although a lot will depend on the software. Also microsoft hardware has been suspect in the past.

[k0ruptr]

where is the trout option

[Joe Canadian]

Microsoft really had an opportunity here to put out a superior MP3 player... well a lot of companies have had the chance to do that... instead they don't, which leaves the iPod, IMO, as the superior product. The thing that the Zune has going for it is the wireless connection, but even that could have been done a lot better... and I'm sure the 6G iPod will have it as well.

However, even with a superior product. iPod has the cool factor, and iTunes... which is going to be extremely hard to contend with.

[Daimyo]

I haven't seen anything from Microsoft in the past that makes me thing they can compete with the iPod/iTunes combo.

[Joe Canadian]

I haven't seen anything from Microsoft in the past that makes me thing they can compete with the iPod/iTunes combo.

If Microsoft could expand their new online content features of the 360 into music, that would be a step. I'm not saying they'd instantly compete with Apple if the did that... but it would be one upping them in a way.

[AgustusM]

more restrictive DRM will doom the Zune

http://www.medialoper.com/hot-topics/music/zunes-big-innovation-viral-drm/

[Joe Canadian]

more restrictive DRM will doom the Zune

http://www.medialoper.com/hot-topics/music/zunes-big-innovation-viral-drm/

I don't think it will doom the Zune... the iPod doesn't even allow this, and I think it's a pretty cool feature. Microsoft obviously had to put some protections in place, or else they'd be guilty of allowing P2P file sharing.

[MacroGuru]

Honestlhy, the iPods lack of Screen Color is what kills it. The Creative Zen Vision M and W far surpass it, as does the little battery operated Zvue.

Now the Zune, is a crazy product that I feel will fit the bill and the need for the consumer that finds out that iPod doesn't necessarily mean an MP3 player (What I mean is, they come into the store looking for an iPod because they want to play MP3's, and when you show them the different choices, it shocks them, as they think apple is it.)

[SirFozzie]

Considering Microsoft's recent actions with regards to customer rights, I wouldn't buy this product with someone else's money.

[Daimyo]

Honestlhy, the iPods lack of Screen Color is what kills it. The Creative Zen Vision M and W far surpass it, as does the little battery operated Zvue.
Heh.... what is your definition of "kills"?

You can really tell the difference between 65,536 colors and 262,144 colors on a 2.5" screen?

I looked up the two Zen products you mentioned as was pretty excited about the W until I found the specs and saw that it was over an inch thick (double the thickness of an 80GB video iPod). Even the M is 60% thicker than an 80GB iPod and I already feel the iPod pushes the limits of acceptable size. Hopefully Apple's wide screen iPod will be around half an inch thick.... an iPod-like device with a widescreen display larger than ~4" has the potential to be really sweet IMO.

[Groundhog]

Honestlhy, the iPods lack of Screen Color is what kills it. The Creative Zen Vision M and W far surpass it, as does the little battery operated Zvue.

My iPod's screen has plenty of colour. It's true that the battery life isn't great, especially if you watch a video, but I dock it so much anyway that it's not a big deal for me.

[MacroGuru]

Heh.... what is your definition of "kills"?

You can really tell the difference between 65,536 colors and 262,144 colors on a 2.5" screen?

I looked up the two Zen products you mentioned as was pretty excited about the W until I found the specs and saw that it was over an inch thick (double the thickness of an 80GB video iPod). Even the M is 60% thicker than an 80GB iPod and I already feel the iPod pushes the limits of acceptable size. Hopefully Apple's wide screen iPod will be around half an inch thick.... an iPod-like device with a widescreen display larger than ~4" has the potential to be really sweet IMO.

You do know why they are thicker than the iPod right? It's all about HD protection, they learned from Apple that you have to protect the drives. You drop the iPod while it's running and the higher chance you have of destroying the drive. And you do notice the color differences between the two it's pretty amazing, I didn't think so until I started teaching about the two products side by side.

So I always push, want to look good and have a decent size but risk losing your high end item...iPod...HD protection, a few 100K more colors, and yeah it's a touch thicker, than you go with Vision M....

[Klinglerware]

What, no ogg or flac support?

Also, any word on audio book support, if any?

[Comey]

What are your thoughts on the Toshiba Gigabeat S? I've looked at that for awhile now (I have a 30GB video ipod) and am considering moving to that.

[Daimyo]

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2006/02/how-to-disassemble-the-creative-zen-vision-m.php

I don't see any protection for the hard drive.. nothing more than what the iPod has, let alone anything that would add 10mm to the thickness. Maybe they added it specially in the 60gb model... *shurg*

For reference here is the insides of an iPod video:
http://www.informit.com/content/images/art_fogie_ipodmod/elementLinks/fig02.jpg
http://www.informit.com/content/images/art_fogie_ipodmod/elementLinks/thfig03.jpg
taken from:
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=445098&rl=1

It would take a lot more for either to offer any protection. They'd also probably have to include software similar to IBM/Lenovo or old Sony players to detect excessive movement and halt the disks from spinning.

[MacroGuru]

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2006/02/how-to-disassemble-the-creative-zen-vision-m.php

I don't see any protection for the hard drive.. nothing more than what the iPod has, let alone anything that would add 10mm to the thickness. Maybe they added it specially in the 60gb model... *shurg*

For reference here is the insides of an iPod video:
http://www.informit.com/content/images/art_fogie_ipodmod/elementLinks/fig02.jpg
http://www.informit.com/content/images/art_fogie_ipodmod/elementLinks/thfig03.jpg
taken from:
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=445098&rl=1

It would take a lot more for either to offer any protection. They'd also probably have to include software similar to IBM/Lenovo or old Sony players to detect excessive movement and halt the disks from spinning.

I stand corrected.....:)......my understanding between both reps, and that was the funny thing, they both stated the iPod doesn't have the corner protectors like the Vision M....but I will say this....I am going to forward these links to both reps.

[AgustusM]

more bad press for the Zune

http://www.boingboing.net/2006/11/25/chicago_suntimes_zun.html

I am no microsoft basher - I use windows, office, front page, etc, etc - but this thing is a piece of junk.

Don't brand me an IPod lover either, I have owned over the years about 6 different MP3 players and NONE of them have been IPod's, most have been like my current model from Creative.

[Airhog]

I have to agree with AgustusM. After reading that article, you couldnt pay me to own one of those things

[Anthony]

there really wasn't anything concrete about that article. seemed like just one person's opinion. gotta give me reasons why it's horrible.

[Klinglerware]

there really wasn't anything concrete about that article. seemed like just one person's opinion. gotta give me reasons why it's horrible.

The original article that the blog linked to is a little meatier...

http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/147048,CST-FIN-Andy23.article

[Anthony]

The original article that the blog linked to is a little meatier...

http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/147048,CST-FIN-Andy23.article

thanks, that was a lot better.

[Klinglerware]

no prob.

[Emiliano]

Anybody picked this up?

[MacroGuru]

Anybody picked this up?

We are showing it on our trucks this holiday season, and I have yet to hear any of these complaints on it, but I will ask the guys showing it.

[Cringer]

We are showing it on our trucks this holiday season, and I have yet to hear any of these complaints on it, but I will ask the guys showing it.

I haven't heard any complaints from the public. As for dealing with it and playing around with it daily, I have had no problems with it. It's a nice little player, with a nice sized screen. There is also 'buzz' about it, so I don't think it will fade away in six months.

As for the guy's rip on the wifi ability I think it is kind of dumb. No MP3 player has had wifi before and this guy expects the Zune to be able to do it all right away? Microsoft says that there could be other uses for the wifi in the future, and that the Zune is (in some ways) upgradeable because of this.

Overall though, I like the Zen: Vision M from Creative. I like the built in mic, the ability to record radio, the line in, the amount of colors in the screen, and even think the dozens of language selections is pretty cool (just don't put it on japanese, or you will have a hard time getting it back to english unless you have the menu memorized :D )

[cthomer5000]

i'm split between 2 and 3 here. itunes is what makes the iPod so great. It's a great program for organizational purposes, intergrated podcast handling, etc. The syngery is what sold me on an ipod for my 2nd mp3 player purchase.

[stevew]

Still haven't sold one while I've been working. The more I read about it, the worse it sounds. Especially the lame wifi options, which could have just been left out altogether and I would have felt a bit better about the player.

[KWhit]

The original article that the blog linked to is a little meatier...

http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/147048,CST-FIN-Andy23.article

Wow.

I find it very interesting that Microsoft is giving the music publishers a kickback on every player. What the hell are they thinking?

And the wireless "feature" sounds completely worthless.

[MacroGuru]

I haven't heard any complaints from the public. As for dealing with it and playing around with it daily, I have had no problems with it. It's a nice little player, with a nice sized screen. There is also 'buzz' about it, so I don't think it will fade away in six months.

As for the guy's rip on the wifi ability I think it is kind of dumb. No MP3 player has had wifi before and this guy expects the Zune to be able to do it all right away? Microsoft says that there could be other uses for the wifi in the future, and that the Zune is (in some ways) upgradeable because of this.

Overall though, I like the Zen: Vision M from Creative. I like the built in mic, the ability to record radio, the line in, the amount of colors in the screen, and even think the dozens of language selections is pretty cool (just don't put it on japanese, or you will have a hard time getting it back to english unless you have the menu memorized :D )

Ask and ye shall receive...

[SirFozzie]

Wow.

I find it very interesting that Microsoft is giving the music publishers a kickback on every player. What the hell are they thinking?

And the wireless "feature" sounds completely worthless.

They're trying to give the music publishers a lever to work against Apple, as a way to try to knock down the Ipod mindshare.

[Young Drachma]

I don't own an IPod and won't buy one, because I don't want to use just iTunes and because I use Rhapsody almost exclusively, because I have wide ranging, obscure tastes and it suits my needs and has for years.

So, I bought a Creative Zen Photo before they were discontinued over a year ago and it's worked okay, but I am ready to upgrade to something different. Compatibility with Rhapsody isn't as much of an issue anymore now that I use tunebite, but...it would be nice to have something that works a little better than the Creative player did. It has some issues that I'm not fond of and I don't need a photo or video player with mine since I have a PSP, so that's not an issue.

I'll check this one out in a while once people have had a chance to mess around with it and tell me what's wrong with it long term.

[Young Drachma]

Wow, that Sun Times article sure did slam the thing.

[Young Drachma]

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2061973,00.asp

Another Zune review

[Cringer]

I don't own an IPod and won't buy one, because I don't want to use just iTunes and because I use Rhapsody almost exclusively, because I have wide ranging, obscure tastes and it suits my needs and has for years.

So, I bought a Creative Zen Photo before they were discontinued over a year ago and it's worked okay, but I am ready to upgrade to something different. Compatibility with Rhapsody isn't as much of an issue anymore now that I use tunebite, but...it would be nice to have something that works a little better than the Creative player did. It has some issues that I'm not fond of and I don't need a photo or video player with mine since I have a PSP, so that's not an issue.

I'll check this one out in a while once people have had a chance to mess around with it and tell me what's wrong with it long term.

Honestly, why would you check it out (even down the road) if you don't care about the photo or video options? Because of the capacity?

I have to admit the video is something I probably wouldn't use a bunch (like most people, as I understand from a recent article talking about the unimpressive 2% of Ipod Video owners who actually watch video on it).

Because of that I am starting to think a Zen V+ would be good. That or something like a SanDisk Sansa 8gb player, which has many of the same functions minus the video, yet also has expandable memory because you can pop in SD cards.

[Samdari]

Since this seems to have turned into a generic mp3/4 player thread, does anyone have a Zen Vision M? I definitely want video capabilities, and this seems to be equivalent hardware that can be had cheaper than a 30GB ipod.

[Cringer]

Since this seems to have turned into a generic mp3/4 player thread, does anyone have a Zen Vision M? I definitely want video capabilities, and this seems to be equivalent hardware that can be had cheaper than a 30GB ipod.

Not sure where you are looking but at Walmart the ipod video, Zen Vision:M, and Zune are all selling for the same price right now.

I like the Vision M a lot though. It has a built in mic, which is pretty damn good in it's quality (better then I had expected I should say). You also have the ability to record FM radio if you want. And it's screen shows over 250,000 colors. All of that are things the Zune and ipod don't have. The Vision:M also has a line in, so you can record straight from a CD player or something like that.

Not a big fan of the scroll bar thing it uses but I would live with it I guess.

[MacroGuru]

Alright, the Zune review by me, since I finally got out on tour (The one Cringer is on to be exact)

I took the challenge of getting this thing syncing and working, as well as upgrading the firmware for it.

First off, the screen has around the same amount of colors that the iPod does, second for video, I am a little shocked but it supports wmv, mpg4 and H.264 format. Now the H.264 is a format apple primarily uses for their HD with Quicktime, so this intrigues me.

Out of the box the software will only work with these three formats, however there are some registry hacks you can find that will allow the software to convert AVI and MPG to the WMV and sync it to the Zune, I did this to copy over The Davinci Code and Episode 1 of Prison Break.

I also modified the registry so the Zune can now be used as a portable hard drive, explored like one, so I am not stuck using the Zune Software to copy my files, so now the only time I will use it will be when I need to convert the video over to WMV.

Wireless is cool for it even though it is locking it down to Zune to Zune, you can see a world of opportunity open up if they unlock this, for instance, wirelessly connect with the 360 or your computer, pulling down the files assigned to the Zune Media library.
Battery Life has been great, sound is good, and honestly I haven't experienced any negative issues on lock up or anything of the sorts.

The one negative is when I went to update the firmware, it wasn't updating, and I could not get it to go, so I had to restore the device, which takes it back to day 1, it then updated the new firmware, so wireless was enabled and the new features were there, it was just painful to do, since I lost the media that was on the device already.

Zune Software allows me to media share enable the library so I can push the library across the network to my Xbox360, which I think is a decent win, just wished it was the Zune itself (You can hook it up directly) wireless instead of the software.
All in all, I think this is a gen 1 device that is going to give the iPod a run for it's money, especially if they unlock some of the features from within.

Want to know anything else about this? Ask away, I was deep into working with this all day yesterday and today.

[Samdari]

Not sure where you are looking but at Walmart the ipod video, Zen Vision:M, and Zune are all selling for the same price right now.


On Amazon when I wrote that, and on walmart.com today, the Zen is $199 and the 30GB ipod $249.

[KWhit]

Out of the box the software will only work with these three formats, however there are some registry hacks you can find that will allow the software to convert AVI and MPG to the WMV and sync it to the Zune, I did this to copy over The Davinci Code and Episode 1 of Prison Break.

This is kind of off-topic, but I've always wanted to transfer a movie from a DVD onto my iPod. Is there any way to do that? If so, how?

[Franklinnoble]

What are your thoughts on the Toshiba Gigabeat S? I've looked at that for awhile now (I have a 30GB video ipod) and am considering moving to that.

I just got the 60GB Gigabeat for Christmas (my wife rocks... and she figured if she let me have it early, I'd pay more attention to putting together the kids' toys on Christmas morning).

I'm still breaking it in, but my first impressions are very positive. It's got great screen resolution, sound, and the storage capacity is killer for the price. Best deal seems to be on Amazon right now (if you figure the cost of shipping).

It's very intuitive to use. I didn't need a manual or any special software - it runs Windows Mobile, and meshes nicely with Media Player 11. It's so easy to operate, my three-year-old picked it up and started listening to music with it (insert earphones, press the big button, hit the arrows until you find the theme to Superman).

I'll post a more detailed review later once I hack at it some more, but so far, I'm impressed. The data transfer rate over USB 2.0 is very satisfying. I had over 5GB moved in what seemed like no time.

[stevew]

This is kind of off-topic, but I've always wanted to transfer a movie from a DVD onto my iPod. Is there any way to do that? If so, how?

You have to use something like DVD shrink to encode it, and then compile it into a specific format. I bet it's not that hard.

[Emiliano]

You have to use something like DVD shrink to encode it, and then compile it into a specific format. I bet it's not that hard.

Yeah, use DVD Shrink (http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/dvd_rippers/dvd_shrink.cfm) to devrypt, and then Videora iPod converter (http://www.videora.com/en-us/Converter/iPod/download.php) to convert into iPod format. Both applications are free.

[hukarez]

I'm glad I came upon this thread, as one of my friends was wondering about the Zune (it being on her wishlist, #1 priority). I did a bit more digging, and I figured maybe it'd be too early to grab a Zune now, so I resorted to picking her up a light blue Vision: M for $224 shipped.

I honestly don't use any of these devices, nor am I too familiar with it, but a little bit more searching online, and didn't realize that Creative made this device!

Hopefully this gift will work out well.

[Subby]

This is kind of off-topic, but I've always wanted to transfer a movie from a DVD onto my iPod. Is there any way to do that? If so, how?
Hey KWhizzle...

I just bought this (http://www.cucusoft.com/DVD-to-iPod.asp) - it was $30 and is a fairly elegant PC solution. There are probably a combination of freeware hacks out there, but super important people like me and you PROBABLY DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THEM. :cool: <---you in cool shades, effortlessly ripping movies.

[KWhit]

Oh yes. Now that's what I'm talking about.

That's exactly what I'm looking for.

[KWhit]

Dola (2 days later):

I don't think Leo likes the Zune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZXiLY4bo80

[Young Drachma]

Ok...so here's the story.

I was in the market for a new player. It was narrowed down to the Creative M 30GB and the Zune. All the reviews of the Zune basically boiled down to this for me. "Gee, it's not an Ipod. It should be more like an iPod. We'd still slam it, because it's Microsoft..but damn, we sure do love that ipod."

So, I didn't know what to think..but it seemed like besides the fact that it's a first generation product and all that goes along with that, that it might be solid and worth looking at.

Mostly, I'd soured on my Creative experience after my Zen Sleek Photo 20GB I bought about a year ago, mostly because of all the issues I dealt with relating to their crappy software and lots of other problems that made routine tasks on the player and managing content on it, a real pain.

I'm anti-Ipod, so that wasn't even an option.

Anyway...so far...the Zune isn't bad. I have a PSP, so I'll never use an MP3 player for video or anything like that. Zune can't be used as a portable hard drive like the Creative was, but...I have a 250GB portable hard drive and so, that's a moot issue now, too.

I just use it for music on my commute. (50 miles one way...in Wyoming. Trust me, you need music.) I like that you can get an optional car adapter and I purchased that. It looks good, the album cover downloads and such are a nice flair and it's nice enough that I can sit it up right in the car and I know what's playing without straining my eyes.

Umm..let's see. It's easy to transfer music to using their software, which I admit is a pain if you're trying to login into their zune service from the start.

As far as all the hoopla over only being able to use their software to download, there is an easy workaround if you -- like me -- use subscription based services and don't want to be locked into only using Microsoft's. You can download tunebite (google it) and then record whatever music you play from Rhapsody, Napster or whatever other service you use into mp3s..that you can then move to your Zune.

I know it's Microsoft and they are supposedly the devil and all. That's fine. But the player really isn't bad at all. And it was just about $2 more than the Creative player at Wal-Mart out here. So time will tell with this thing overall, but...it's a huge upgrade over my old Creative player and given that the updated creative player uses the same basic setup, firmware and all of that...it's nice to be freed from that whole disaster, because it really was starting to get on my nerves.

Time will tell....

[KWhit]

I'm anti-Ipod, so that wasn't even an option.

Why is that?

[Young Drachma]

I know that this is moot now that I have Microsoft's product that's built similarly..but..I didn't like how you could really only get music from iTunes. Also, I hate the whole hip factor that everyone seems to have one. The few times I've used them, I haven't been overwhelmed by its usefulness, either.

Add to that I don't really have a ton of use for iTunes, even with everyone singing its praises (though, I guess I can understand how it could be handy...) and then, there really isn't any reason for me to have one.

But mostly, I like subscription based services and getting my music from them and using an iPod would make that near impossible or at least, a huge hassle.

[Franklinnoble]

I know that this is moot now that I have Microsoft's product that's built similarly..but..I didn't like how you could really only get music from iTunes. Also, I hate the whole hip factor that everyone seems to have one. The few times I've used them, I haven't been overwhelmed by its usefulness, either.

Add to that I don't really have a ton of use for iTunes, even with everyone singing its praises (though, I guess I can understand how it could be handy...) and then, there really isn't any reason for me to have one.

But mostly, I like subscription based services and getting my music from them and using an iPod would make that near impossible or at least, a huge hassle.


You really should have looked at the Toshiba Gigabeat.

The Zune is just Toshiba's player with the useless DRM WiFi crap and Microsoft's label on the front.

[daedalus]

More than a few people on OO had positive things to say about the iRiver Clix. Mileage, as always, will vary.

[Anthony]

i got my wife the video ipod for christmas, i can't wait to give it to her. i don't know what Dark Cloud is talking about - you can buy music, videos, movies and tv shows on iTunes.i like the fact that i'll be able to buy her season packages of some of the shows she doesn't get to watch as much and can now do something useful during her morning train commute and catch up on some shows on her "B list". if she happens to work out or go jogging then this becomes an even greater investment.

[Logan]

i got my wife the video ipod for christmas, i can't wait to give it to her. i don't know what Dark Cloud is talking about - you can buy music, videos, movies and tv shows on iTunes.i like the fact that i'll be able to buy her season packages of some of the shows she doesn't get to watch as much and can now do something useful during her morning train commute and catch up on some shows on her "B list". if she happens to work out or go jogging then this becomes an even greater investment.

Sometimes I trail off and fail to read the last sentence in a post.

Glad that didn't happen on this one.

[Anthony]

Sometimes I trail off and fail to read the last sentence in a post.

Glad that didn't happen on this one.

lol, i meant that in the sense of if she happens to increase the scenarios where having an ipod is advantageous then my purchase becomes that much more worthwhile. she isn't a music listener in a hardcore sense like i am, so outside of using the ipod during her commute to and from work i don't know when she'd use it. she likes tv a lot so i figured she'd go crazy over being able to watch her shows on the train.

[Young Drachma]

i don't know what Dark Cloud is talking about - you can buy music, videos, movies and tv shows on iTunes


I don't buy music for the most part. I like subscription based services because I listen to a really wide eclectic variety of music, most of it pretty independent and obscure to the tune of several hundred songs a week, which is handy because of all the driving I do.

There are other factors that I didn't mention that played into my decision such as ease of use and other intangibles.

I'm pleased with my purchase and have no gripe with iPods, they work well for the folks who like them. It just never appealed to me, is all.

[Logan]

lol, i meant that in the sense of if she happens to increase the scenarios where having an ipod is advantageous then my purchase becomes that much more worthwhile. she isn't a music listener in a hardcore sense like i am, so outside of using the ipod during her commute to and from work i don't know when she'd use it. she likes tv a lot so i figured she'd go crazy over being able to watch her shows on the train.

Nice save. :)