Text Sims: How much should the AI "Think"?

[wade moore]

This is something I have thought about for awhile, but some of the recent discussion (particularly around FG's) with FOF2k7 has me thinking about it again.

NOTE: I don't mean this to address FOF2k7 and how it should work. I want to talk about text sims in general and how you think they should work, not what is "wrong" or "right" with FOF2k7.

So... Often in text sims questions about "AI" and "AI Flaws" come up. I will speak mostly to FOF because I have very little experience with the other text sim games.

When you have settings that you as the Coach/GM set - how often/to what extent should the AI interfere for your "Benefit"?

For instance. Let's say you have a setting where you tell the game to run every down in the last two minutes of the game if you're ahead by more than 6 points. Then let's say that you are up by 7 points, on your opponents 5 yard line, 1:59 left, they have 2 timeouts left, and it is 3rd and 25 due to penalties.

Should the AI override you? I think many people would want to pass in this situation and say the AI was "stupid" to run here, even if they have told it to.

Or, let's say that it's a baseball game. Again, i don't know how these games work, so I'm speaking theoretically...

Let's say you tell it always walk Barry Bonds. However, it is the top of the 9th, tie game, and bases are loaded, with 2 outs. Bonds comes up to the plate. Should the computer still walk them? Should tehy try to pitch to him? If he hits the homer, you'll be mad that the computer didn't walk him. If he walks him, you'll be mad when you lose by 1 run.




So. Should the game "do what you tell it to" or should it "Help you out"? If it should help you out, where do you draw the line?

It seems to me that many "AI Issues" revolve around this question and if I were a developer, I'd have a VERY hard time answering the question.

[jbergey22]

You bring up some very good points. Athough if the computer intentionally walked in the go ahead run in the 9th I would never play that game again:)

In playing FOF football I dont find the AI nearly as bad as I do in the mojority of sims. I think the computer should do what you tell it to. In fact in your example there is no way I would want the computer to decide its own play at my own 5 yard line. Too many bad things could happen it that particular example. FOF gives more then enough different scenarios that you can set up the settings you would not want nor need the computer to make its own decisions. Other games need more options!!!

I do however wish the computer AI was more intelligent at times to make these games more challenging!

[Jonathan Ezarik]

For instance. Let's say you have a setting where you tell the game to run every down in the last two minutes of the game if you're ahead by more than 6 points. Then let's say that you are up by 7 points, on your opponents 5 yard line, 1:59 left, they have 2 timeouts left, and it is 3rd and 25 due to penalties.

How can it be 3rd and 25 on their 5 yard line? Do you mean that we start on their 5 but then back up due to penalties?

I wouldn't have any problem with the AI running the ball. Make your opponent burn a timeout and you don't have as much of a risk of turning the ball over.

[gstelmack]

One option is to have the game have key situational settings for you. For example, "Walk with bases loaded?" can override the "Walk Bonds" setting. I think when people expect the AI to save them, what's really happened is the game is missing a key setting for you to customize.

[cartman]

I think when people expect the AI to save them, what's really happened is the game is missing a key setting for you to customize.

"

[jbergey22]

How can it be 3rd and 25 on their 5 yard line? Do you mean that we start on their 5 but then back up due to penalties?

I wouldn't have any problem with the AI running the ball. Make your opponent burn a timeout and you don't have as much of a risk of turning the ball over.

I am assuming he meant his own 5 yard line but who knows. Otherwise it wouldnt add up like you were wondering about.

[jbmagic]

But the AI logic still need to be smarter at end of halves and end of the games, because we can't do the AI gameplans for them.

[wade moore]

One option is to have the game have key situational settings for you. For example, "Walk with bases loaded?" can override the "Walk Bonds" setting. I think when people expect the AI to save them, what's really happened is the game is missing a key setting for you to customize. This is what I'm trying to say. It seems like people expect the AI to save them. We can have special situation settings, but they can only get SO specific. How specific should they be, and at what point (if any) should the computer override them?



I am assuming he meant his own 5 yard line but who knows. Otherwise it wouldnt add up like you were wondering about.
Yeah, I messed that up. You're right on what I meant.

But the AI logic still need to be smarter at end of halves and end of the games, because we can't do the AI gameplans for them. Ok, you totally didn't answer my question at ALL.

The computer opponent, in theory, has the same options that we do. I'm talking about for YOUR coached team. Should it overrid YOUR settings? Or should it go 100% with the settings you made?

[stevew]

I wish i ai expert so i could help.

Puresim have good ai.