Dodgers sign Juan Pierre -

[Crapshoot]

5years, $45 million.

Ned Colleti is my favorite person in the whole world right now. :D

[stevew]

You called that one. LOL

[Vince]

Woo-hoo!

[SackAttack]

Pierre ought to be a pretty decent #2 hitter.

Overpaid as hell, but given the financial craziness run amuck this winter, and given what we paid Furcal last offseason, I don't mind this signing as much this winter as I would have last winter.

What this does to really intrigue me, though, is make me wonder what that means for the recently re-signed Nomar as well as Matt Kemp. Do we move Kemp to left or right for his eventual ascension? Seems unlikely he'd play center unless we plan to move Pierre to one of the corners in a year or two...and while he's overpaid in CF at $9m, he'd be REALLY overpaid as a corner OF at the same price.

Some spec I'd read had Nomar staying at 1B while Loney moved to right, and some had Nomar going to 3rd, Loney to 1B, and Ethier potentially to right if we signed a guy like Carlos Lee. Both could still happen, but it poses interesting questions for Kemp's future.

Maybe the idea is they think Kemp is still two seasons off, not one?

[oykib]

I didn't think anyone could make the Soriano deal look good.

[Crapshoot]

Pierre ought to be a pretty decent #2 hitter.

Overpaid as hell, but given the financial craziness run amuck this winter, and given what we paid Furcal last offseason, I don't mind this signing as much this winter as I would have last winter.

What this does to really intrigue me, though, is make me wonder what that means for the recently re-signed Nomar as well as Matt Kemp. Do we move Kemp to left or right for his eventual ascension? Seems unlikely he'd play center unless we plan to move Pierre to one of the corners in a year or two...and while he's overpaid in CF at $9m, he'd be REALLY overpaid as a corner OF at the same price.

Some spec I'd read had Nomar staying at 1B while Loney moved to right, and some had Nomar going to 3rd, Loney to 1B, and Ethier potentially to right if we signed a guy like Carlos Lee. Both could still happen, but it poses interesting questions for Kemp's future.

Maybe the idea is they think Kemp is still two seasons off, not one?


Cmon. Pierre had a VORP lower than Kenny Lofton, for god's sake. He's a hitter who's entirely dependent on speed. To quote from elsewhere - Pierre's SLG when bunting than when swinging away. That's pretty pathetic. He plays a mediocre CF, and had an OPS+ of 81 last year! That's a 4th OF - not a $45 million player.

[Toddzilla]

Pierre's statistics were dragged down by a terrible April and May, but he put together a pretty solid season after that. I would have loved for him to resign with the Cubs to play centerfield, where he did quite a nice job defensively. I'm sad he's gone, but to think the Cubs are giving Soriano only $2M more a season than Pierre makes me laugh out loud.

EDIT: $45M / 5y = $15M/y makes me laugh, too - and cry a bit on the inside.

[Crapshoot]

Pierre's statistics were dragged down by a terrible April and May, but he put together a pretty solid season after that. I would have loved for him to resign with the Cubs to play centerfield, where he did quite a nice job defensively. I'm sad he's gone, but to think the Cubs are giving Soriano only $2M more a season than Pierre makes me laugh out loud.


Eh? The Cubs are giving Soriano $17 mil per year - that's $8 mil more per year than Pierre.

[SackAttack]

Cmon. Pierre had a VORP lower than Kenny Lofton, for god's sake. He's a hitter who's entirely dependent on speed. To quote from elsewhere - Pierre's SLG when bunting than when swinging away. That's pretty pathetic. He plays a mediocre CF, and had an OPS+ of 81 last year! That's a 4th OF - not a $45 million player.

Oh, I'm not trying to justify the price tag. It's absurd.

But he's still cheaper than J.D. Drew and younger than Kenny Lofton (whom I loved last year, mind you), and in a market that's exploding financially he's still only inked for $9m per season for a far shorter term than Soriano, who'll be pulling down ten figures when he's pushing forty.

It's not an Executive of the Year signing by any means, but I think it's a far cry from a terrible signing. Certainly it doesn't feel like a slam dunk the one way or the other to me. I hated the Furcal signing last year because of the cost, but he brought me around with his play in the second half.

I'm willing to give Pierre time to do the same thing - and by extension, Colletti time to continue to justify the faith I have in him.

[Hammer755]

In other news, Carlos Lee just demolished the house he built after Soriano signed and built an even bigger house on top of it.

[cougarfreak]

That is one crazy figure for a CF that relies of batting average and speed only.

[oykib]

That is one crazy figure for a CF that isn't a starting-caliber player.

fixed

[Danny]

Terrible signing. Pretty much the worst signing I could imagine for my dodgers this offseason.

[stevew]

If this is the price for a mediocre starting OF, the Phils may as well just keep Burrell at 13 mil per.

[QuikSand]

Soriano, who'll be pulling down ten figures when he's pushing forty.

Folks up in his pay grade tend to just drop the pennies there. *shurg*

[stevew]

In the espn article they mentioned how the Giants were offering 32-34 million over 4 years. I think crapshoot would have imploded if that happened. :)

[SackAttack]

Folks up in his pay grade tend to just drop the pennies there. *shurg*

True enough, but this isn't $9m vs $10m. We're talking nearly double what Pierre's making and for nearly twice as long.

Soriano's got power, but I still wouldn't feel comfortable with that contract as a Cubs fan.

[Toddzilla]

Eh? The Cubs are giving Soriano $17 mil per year - that's $8 mil more per year than Pierre.Der der de der - my math really took a shit there....

[Toddzilla]

Regarding the Soriano contract - wrong thread, I know - but if it means the Cubs make it back to the World Series (BIG if, I know I, know) - then its a bargain at twice the price.

[Crapshoot]

In the espn article they mentioned how the Giants were offering 32-34 million over 4 years. I think crapshoot would have imploded if that happened. :)

True. :D

[McSweeny]

Juan Pierre made 532 outs last season. 532 outs for 8 million bucks

[mauchow]

True enough, but this isn't $9m vs $10m. We're talking nearly double what Pierre's making and for nearly twice as long.

Soriano's got power, but I still wouldn't feel comfortable with that contract as a Cubs fan.

I feel just fine. Thanks.

[Fouts]

Surprising. I thought the Dodgers had some good young OFers coming up through the system.

[Irrelevant Dude]

5years, $45 million.

Ned Colleti is my favorite person in the whole world right now. :D
And Jim Hendry is my favorite for letting him go... Nothing like $9 million for a .300 hitter who doesn't get on base, has absolutely no power, and a noodle arm. Soriano was also overpaid, but I'd prefer overpaying for production instead of overpaying for mediocrity.

[SackAttack]

Surprising. I thought the Dodgers had some good young OFers coming up through the system.

We do. The only one really potentially affected here is Kemp, though. The rest are mostly corner guys anyway.

That's why I'm surprised it's a five year deal and wondering if they're planning to change his position.

[SackAttack]

I feel just fine. Thanks.

Get back to me in, say, three years.

And since when are you a Cubs fan? The last time I talked to you, it was all about the Cardinals.

[AgustusM]

as a Giants fan, I am ecstatic about this signing. I would much rather take a shot on some of the cheap youngsters then way over pay for such a mediocre player.

[Toddzilla]

Soriano was also overpaid, but I'd prefer overpaying for production instead of overpaying for mediocrity.Testify, my broither!

[daedalus]

Rather on the expensive side but I like this signing (certainly much more than the Drew signing). But then I'm a speed junkie.

I may have to start following Josh's Dodgers again. :)

[Hammer755]

Rather on the expensive side but I like this signing (certainly much more than the Drew signing). But then I'm a speed junkie.

I may have to start following Josh's Dodgers again. :)

Speed doesn't do much good when it's attached to a 0.330 OBP. Certainly not $9MM/yr good.

[Bad-example]

$45M for Pierre. Nice signing. :D

[Toddzilla]

$45M for Pierre. Nice signing. :DWow, $15 M a year...sheesh....

[Danny]

Gary Mathews to Angels for 5 years and 50 million. Perhaps the Pierre signing wasn't so bad.

[miami_fan]

Has the countdown started for when the baseball owners will be bawling about being broke again?

[miked]

A lot of really silly contracts. I still can't belive the Mets gave El Duque 12M over 2 years. At this rate, I'm waiting for the Julio Franco 5 year, 25M signing.

[SackAttack]

Pierre's gonna make $7.5m in 2007, $8m in 2008, $10m each in 2009 and 2010 and $8.5m in 2011.

Those eight-digit years are probably not going to be value-laden, but I don't think the '07, '08 and '11 values are terrible.

I'm willing to wait and see how he pans out in LA. You wouldn't figure Dodger Stadium to have a negative impact on the sort of offense he brings to the table, so there shouldn't be any ballpark-related degradation of his game.

[Atocep]

The thing about Pierre, as has been stated, is the only thing he brings to a team is speed and speed as a tool is vastly overrated in baseball. Also, despite the speed he's an average defensive centerfielder at best.

Dodger's fans are looking at 2 years of empty batting averages, lots of stolen bases with an average success rate and then a steep decline as he gets into his 30s.

Ned Colletti is well on his way to doing the same thing he was a part of in San Francisco, build a team around overrated veteran players while blocking prospects from doing anything on a Dodger uniform. The difference is he won't have the most productive player in baseball to cover up the team's weaknesses and push the team into the playoffs in a bad division. He already traded away Joel Guzman (probably one of the top 3 position prospects in all of baseball) for the incredibly mediocre Julio Lugo. He'll have the Dodger farm system empty within 2 years.

[daedalus]

He already traded away Joel Guzman (probably one of the top 3 position prospects in all of baseball) for the incredibly mediocre Julio Lugo. He'll have the Dodger farm system empty within 2 years.Regardless of how Guzman turns out (whether he busts or blossoms), that has to be one of the more incredibly retarded move ever. Mortgaging your future for mediocrity is . . . Lasorda-like.

[daedalus]

Just my opinion but if he goes back to being the type of hitter he once was (where he sprays the ball around), Dodgers Stadium could be a good fit for his hitting style. Also, if he can push his walk up into the 50-60 per, I think he'll become much more valuable (not completely out of the realm of possibilities, given what he's been able to do before). I still think his success percentage with stolen base is ridiculously low.

And Dodgers fans are probably used to mediocre centerfield defense by now so, hey, he's still an improvement. :D

[Logan]

A lot of really silly contracts. I still can't belive the Mets gave El Duque 12M over 2 years. At this rate, I'm waiting for the Julio Franco 5 year, 25M signing.

I really can't understand how you lump El Duque's new deal together with these monster signings of overrated, insignificant players.

[SackAttack]

Pierre's gonna make $7.5m in 2007, $8m in 2008, $10m each in 2009 and 2010 and $8.5m in 2011.

Giants signed a former Dodger today in Dave Roberts.

Three years, $18 million for a guy who'll be 35 at the end of May.

Pierre's got a career OBP of .351 (although his OBP has been shit the last two years).

Roberts has a career .344 OBP, although his has actually been pretty solid the last two years in San Diego.

That said, both players have always been speed guys, and Roberts has better than five years on Pierre.

Pierre will make $25.5 million over the same three years as Roberts will make $18 million.

While both are overpaid for what they bring to the table, is the extra $7.5m/3 years a value-add for Pierre over Roberts? Or is Roberts likely to put up similar numbers for less money despite the age?

[Crapshoot]

I think Roberts is a better player than Pierre, and while I'm not happy about this deal it looks almost rational compared to the Pierre and GMJ deals. He doesn't seem to get that Winn as a RF is below average - at CF, his bat is more defend able. Sabean is convinced that a "proven leadoff hitter" is what the Giants need - I'm just glad his idiocy has been matched this off season.

[SackAttack]

I think Roberts is a better player than Pierre, and while I'm not happy about this deal it looks almost rational compared to the Pierre and GMJ deals. He doesn't seem to get that Winn as a RF is below average - at CF, his bat is more defend able. Sabean is convinced that a "proven leadoff hitter" is what the Giants need - I'm just glad his idiocy has been matched this off season.

Don't get me wrong, I love Roberts. Loved him as a Dodger despite his low OBP.

If he were 3 years younger, this would be a no-brainer in favor of the Giants, IMO.

But given his age I have to wonder if he represents any value as a signing over Pierre.

[Atocep]

Don't get me wrong, I love Roberts. Loved him as a Dodger despite his low OBP.

If he were 3 years younger, this would be a no-brainer in favor of the Giants, IMO.

But given his age I have to wonder if he represents any value as a signing over Pierre.


Well, Roberts played right at his expected level in '06 and his projected VORPs the next 3 seasons are 9.3, 6.0, 6.2 and then he's projected to be out of baseball by 2010 (although now that he's with the Giants he may have a job until he's well into his 40s :) ). Pierre's projected VORPs are 10.6, 6.6, 9.9.

So basically, as has already been stated, Pierre and Roberts are very similar players and I'd give the Giants the edge here just based on the length of Pierre's contract.

[Crapshoot]

Don't get me wrong, I love Roberts. Loved him as a Dodger despite his low OBP.

If he were 3 years younger, this would be a no-brainer in favor of the Giants, IMO.

But given his age I have to wonder if he represents any value as a signing over Pierre.

The thing is, he's not a Bible hitter (ie: The 11th commandment). Roberts has value because he's not completely reliant on speed, unlike Pierre. Yeah, he steals bases, but he does that at a better clip as well (49 out of 55, which actually adds value) than to Pierre, whose 58 of 78 attempts means they added little offensively. Defensively, they're both pretty mediocre, but Roberts has better instincts - and it shows. Gun to my head, for a one year deal, I'd prefer Roberts - I just have no faith whatsoever in Pierre.