Games on the NFL Network

[Marathoner]

So tomorrow is the debut of games on the NFL network. I think this is a terrible idea, especially since the NFL network is not widely available. Especially since there are some good games coming up, Den at KC and Bal at Cincy. Guess I'll go back to listening to games on the radio. The only good part is I won't have to see Cris Collinsworth.

:mad:

[SirFozzie]

blame the cable companies for not making a deal with the NFL folks. The NFL folks are certainly hoping you do..

[k0ruptr]

isn't the NFL Network pretty widely available now? I know direct tv and dish network have it, and I'm pretty sure most cable companies do to.

[MizzouRah]

I have the NFL network, but my in laws don't even have cable! :(

Now that my daughter is sick, I guess I'll just have to stay home. :)

[k0ruptr]

I just read in an article that its viewable in 41 million homes, seems pretty widely available to me.

[Arles]

Score, Cox cable just added the HDTV version of NFL Network to our plan yesterday ;)

[TazFTW]

isn't the NFL Network pretty widely available now? I know direct tv and dish network have it, and I'm pretty sure most cable companies do to.

Oceanic/Time Warner doesn't get it. :(

[Marathoner]

I realize that the NFL probably has enough popularity that people whose TV providers don't provide will hear it from the fans. Actually a pretty smart power play by the NFL. I just wish they would have aired games in the early season and left important, late season match-ups available to all fans.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I just read in an article that its viewable in 41 million homes, seems pretty widely available to me.
That's only about half of ESPN's reach. I had NFL Network in New Orleans, and I have NFL Network here, but I can imagine that there are many areas that don't.

[Raiders Army]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15840378/

Snippet:

The issue is cost. Spokesman Mark Harrad says Time Warner would have to pay $140 million a year to provide the channel to all 13.5 million of its subscribers in 33 states, placing it in the top five most expensive cable networks. He said the company would prefer to carry NFL Network as part of a premium service.

“If we put all expensive sports programming on the standard tier of service, that would increase our rates to all of our customers, even those who didn’t particularly care about football or these games,” Harrad said.

NFL Network spokesman Seth Palansky countered that other cable companies and the two main satellite providers are “happily” carrying the network.

“It’s the most valuable programming a cable company can offer, and a cable company not carrying live NFL games is like a grocery store not carrying milk,” Palansky said.

The NFL already makes a bundle from broadcasting agreements, money shared equally by all 32 teams. NBC bought the rights to Sunday night games this year under a six-year, $600 million per year deal with the league, while ESPN is paying $1.1 billion per year for Monday night football over eight years. Last year, the NFL reached six-year, $8 billion extensions with Fox and CBS for Sunday afternoon games.


From my perspective, it's two giants battling it out over $ (neither of which is going poor, IMHO) and the consumer loses out.

[korme]

Just to pipe in on the original post, Baltimore doesn't play Cincinnati tomorrow, they both play Sunday. Against different teams.

[Marathoner]

Just to pipe in on the original post, Baltimore doesn't play Cincinnati tomorrow, they both play Sunday. Against different teams.

I know that, they meet Nov 30 on the NFL network. I was lamenting the decent games I'll miss. ;)

[korme]

I know that, they meet Nov 30 on the NFL network. I was lamenting the decent games I'll miss. ;)
Dammit, are you serious?? No local coverage for a game that big (for the Bengals right now). Boo. Piss. Crap!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Dammit, are you serious?? No local coverage for a game that big (for the Bengals right now). Boo. Piss. Crap!
I believe that over-the-air stations in each team's area will broadcast the game, so if you're in the Cincinnati area, you don't need NFL Network (or even cable) to see the game, just as if it were on ESPN.

[rowech]

In Cincy you don't but Dayton will not carry the game as it's considered a secondary market.

[DanGarion]

blame the cable companies for not making a deal with the NFL folks. The NFL folks are certainly hoping you do..

Ok let's blame the cable companies. Because it's not like it's their fault they would have to pass the cost that the NFL Network was going to charge (per customer) to air the channel. And it's not like it's their fault that they were requiring the cable companies to include the channel on their basic tier of service.

I mean the cable companies should just eat the cost.

In all honesty Time Warner had a deal on the table that would have allowed those that wanted the NFL Network to get it, but the NFL didn't want to have the channel included on the sports tier, they insisted that it was included on basic cable. But it's all the cable companies fault, those bastards!


And yes I work for Time Warner Cable and have followed the issue closely.

[SirFozzie]

Um.. Jeebies. Read my sentence again. I'm saying that while the NFL hopes you pressure the cable company to get the NFL network added, it takes two sides to make an agreement.

[rowech]

And yes I work for Time Warner Cable and have followed the issue closely.

I'm sorry to hear this.

[Capital]

I have Comcast here in Atlanta and its part of 3rd tier of digital premium package - and the NFL Network is the only decent station on that package. I have the expanded digital (2nd tier) and its already about $15 more than the same package on DirectTv but it's no NFL network for me through Comcast.

[panerd]

Ok let's blame the cable companies. Because it's not like it's their fault they would have to pass the cost that the NFL Network was going to charge (per customer) to air the channel. And it's not like it's their fault that they were requiring the cable companies to include the channel on their basic tier of service.

I mean the cable companies should just eat the cost.

In all honesty Time Warner had a deal on the table that would have allowed those that wanted the NFL Network to get it, but the NFL didn't want to have the channel included on the sports tier, they insisted that it was included on basic cable. But it's all the cable companies fault, those bastards!


And yes I work for Time Warner Cable and have followed the issue closely.

Maybe if they would stop charging $2.50 a month for a remote control, $5 for a ten cent paper guide, $6.75 for each additional box that I have set-up, or $50 for a service guy to come out and plug a DVR into my wall when I can do it myself I would believe they are such a customer friendly industry. Maybe if they would quit lobbying the state legislatures to not allow competition, make agreements that don't allow certain pay movie channels on the dish networks, not charge $60 for internet access, etc... I could go on and on about the poor cable networks. However through all of this somehow Directv and Dish network are able to offer comparable rates to cable while having the NFL network as part of their programming package.


So I am sorry but your employer is full of shit. They are in a poker game with the NFL and played the wrong hand. It is business, I understand that and I don't even fault them for trying to get a better deal on the NFL network. But they are losing this one in the court of public opinion and have decided to have people like you pass on the "We are losing too much money!" bullshit angle. Good for you for standing up for your company! Shame on you for buying their line of complete and utter bullshit.

[rowech]

But they are losing this one in the court of public opinion

Too bad more companies don't get this.

[JonInMiddleGA]

“It’s the most valuable programming a cable company can offer,

Bwahahahahaha.

Limit that statement to the handful of live games they'll offer & it isn't quite as absurd. But on the whole {giggle} it's pretty funny.

On a different subject, their distribution. If the 41m figure is correct, here's some perspective (neither pro nor con, just for comparison)

ESPN = 90m
The Golf Channel = 60m
BBC America = 43m
FitTV = 36m

[stevew]

And yes I work for Time Warner Cable and have followed the issue closely.

Like I said earlier, I'm not sure if we can be friends anymore.

;)

[stevew]

I believe that over-the-air stations in each team's area will broadcast the game, so if you're in the Cincinnati area, you don't need NFL Network (or even cable) to see the game, just as if it were on ESPN.

Yeah, if in the past you would have gotten an ESPN game on a local ABC/CBS/FOX affiliate, you shouldn't have anything to worry about as you will get your team's game over the air.

[DanGarion]

Maybe if they would stop charging $2.50 a month for a remote control, $5 for a ten cent paper guide, $6.75 for each additional box that I have set-up, or $50 for a service guy to come out and plug a DVR into my wall when I can do it myself I would believe they are such a customer friendly industry. Maybe if they would quit lobbying the state legislatures to not allow competition, make agreements that don't allow certain pay movie channels on the dish networks, not charge $60 for internet access, etc... I could go on and on about the poor cable networks. However through all of this somehow Directv and Dish network are able to offer comparable rates to cable while having the NFL network as part of their programming package.


Here in LA we don't charge $2.50 for a remote (it's included with the cable box), $5 for a paper guide (get a newspaper), $6.75 for a cable box, they cost money to purchase and maintain (especially after customers that know nothing about cleanliness let cockroaches get in them). You can pick up a DVR at the cable store and plug it in yourself doesn't cost anything to do that, now if you need a new line ran that costs money, but I think that's the same for Direct TV. It's $34.95 for 1.5 Mbps x 384 kbps high speed service. Besides the hundreds of free service calls we do a day to fix customers issues with their lines (but I don't think Dish does that do they?)

Maybe you forgot that DirectTV and Dish have agreements with the NFL to carry the NFL Network since they have an exclusive contract agreement with the NFL to provide the NFL Game package?

I'm not saying the cable company is perfect, because it is far from that, but they aren't completely in the fault.

[RPI-Fan]

Here in LA we don't charge $2.50 for a remote (it's included with the cable box), $5 for a paper guide (get a newspaper), $6.75 for a cable box, they cost money to purchase and maintain (especially after customers that know nothing about cleanliness let cockroaches get in them). You can pick up a DVR at the cable store and plug it in yourself doesn't cost anything to do that, now if you need a new line ran that costs money, but I think that's the same for Direct TV. It's $34.95 for 1.5 Mbps x 384 kbps high speed service. Besides the hundreds of free service calls we do a day to fix customers issues with their lines (but I don't think Dish does that do they?)

Maybe you forgot that DirectTV and Dish have agreements with the NFL to carry the NFL Network since they have an exclusive contract agreement with the NFL to provide the NFL Game package?

I'm not saying the cable company is perfect, because it is far from that, but they aren't completely in the fault.

Timewarner must have major differences in their various localities. Here, that rate for the cable box is about right. But for the remote it is $0.30 and why the hell would you need a paper guide with digital cable?

Most impressive is that they installed a brand new line at our house for a whopping fee of $24.00.

So I think Timewarner's prices are quite reasonable. I wish they were a little more ahead of the game on channels (they always seem to be last to get any decent channels... currently it's ESPNU and NFL Network). But overall Timewarner's service & pricing is NOT something I'd complain about.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm not saying the cable company is perfect, because it is far from that, but they aren't completely in the fault.

Even as a guy who has nothing but bad things to say about cable companies & their service to consumers, I would have to agree with you on this one.

It's a business decision, plain & simple. And the truth is that the cost of adding the network is a bad move for a lot of cable companies if they can't put it on the premium tier to more directly recover the cost.

What NFL Network knows is that if it goes on the premium tier then it's likely to stay there. And they can't build their subscriber base (which is pitched heavily to advertisers) fast enough that way, because not enough people are willing to pay specifically for it. It's their right to take a hardline negotiating stance, but there's nothing obligating the cable companies to bend over & take it either.

At the dollars quoted in the article (roughly $10 per person), TW would have to be really stupid to agree to the deal to pick up NFLN. And I can't really blame them for not doing something stupid.

If it's any consolation, I'd gladly give someone the network from my Dish if I could. It's just one more channel that I have to surf past getting to the ones that I actually watch.

[DanGarion]

Timewarner must have major differences in their various localities. Here, that rate for the cable box is about right. But for the remote it is $0.30 and why the hell would you need a paper guide with digital cable?

Most impressive is that they installed a brand new line at our house for a whopping fee of $24.00.

So I think Timewarner's prices are quite reasonable. I wish they were a little more ahead of the game on channels (they always seem to be last to get any decent channels... currently it's ESPNU and NFL Network). But overall Timewarner's service & pricing is NOT something I'd complain about.

Yeah I have seen them break up the cost of the box and remote seperate, I think they do that for inventory so if they didn't charge you the .30 they would probably just include that cost into the box.

I think the reason why we are slow on getting new channels is that they only normally make channel changes at the end of the year when they also do the annual price raise (because of the new costs of channels, be them new or existing).

[sterlingice]

blame the cable companies for not making a deal with the NFL folks. The NFL folks are certainly hoping you do..

That pretty much sums up one side of the argument. I side with TW, considering what the NFL wants to carry a pretty useless network for all but about 100 hours of the year.

SI

[DanGarion]

I threw this together while waiting for my baked beans to cook. I put comparable services of both DirectTV and Time Warner Cable and saw what the cost was, it's basically the same.

Direct TV
Startup Costs
2 DIRECTV® HD Receiver
$198.00
Instant Online Rebate -$99.00
1 Off-Air Antenna
$49.00
1 Handling and Delivery Fee
$0.00
1 Standard Professional Installation
$0.00
Total Startup Costs: $148.00
Your First Month's Bill
TOTAL CHOICE® PREMIER
$99.99
DIRECTV™ HD Package
$9.99
Lease Fee
$4.99
$22.99 credit for 12 Months -$22.99
First Month's Total: $91.98
1st year of service $1251.76
2nd year of service $1379.64



ALL THE BEST PACKAGE
Digital Cable Package
with Variety Tier
Installation 0.00
Digital Cable Package Charge:
39.95 (44.95 after 12 months)
Bonus Tier
Choice
(free for 6 months) included ($5.00 after 6 months)
Additional Tiers
Sports 5.00
HDTV 5.00
Premium Channels
HBO 15.00
Showtime Unlimited 12.00
Cinemax 10.00
STARZ! 8.00
Equipment
HDTV Receiver 7.50
HDTV Receiver (2nd TV) 7.50

Total: $108.95

1st year of service $1289.40
2nd year of service $1367.40

[Raiders Army]

I threw this together while waiting for my baked beans to cook. I put comparable services of both DirectTV and Time Warner Cable and saw what the cost was, it's basically the same.

Direct TV
Startup Costs
2 DIRECTV® HD Receiver
$198.00
Instant Online Rebate -$99.00
1 Off-Air Antenna
$49.00
1 Handling and Delivery Fee
$0.00
1 Standard Professional Installation
$0.00
Total Startup Costs: $148.00
Your First Month's Bill
TOTAL CHOICE® PREMIER
$99.99
DIRECTV™ HD Package
$9.99
Lease Fee
$4.99
$22.99 credit for 12 Months -$22.99
First Month's Total: $91.98
1st year of service $1251.76
2nd year of service $1379.64



ALL THE BEST PACKAGE
Digital Cable Package
with Variety Tier
Installation 0.00
Digital Cable Package Charge:
39.95 (44.95 after 12 months)
Bonus Tier
Choice
(free for 6 months) included ($5.00 after 6 months)
Additional Tiers
Sports 5.00
HDTV 5.00
Premium Channels
HBO 15.00
Showtime Unlimited 12.00
Cinemax 10.00
STARZ! 8.00
Equipment
HDTV Receiver 7.50
HDTV Receiver (2nd TV) 7.50

Total: $108.95

1st year of service $1289.40
2nd year of service $1367.40

Something just doesn't seem right to me here. When we had a regular receiver from DirecTV we had to pay the lease fee. When we bought our HD-DVR we got rid of the lease fee, so I'm not sure that is an applicable cost. Also, there are various deals out there that will get the cost of DirecTV down further.

Then again, the Time Warner costs may be inflated as well with similar start-up deals as well.

As a not-so-proud customer of both Time Warner and DirecTV, I would say that DirecTV is far more reliable than Time Warner in both service and reliability.

What also pisses me off is that a guy I work with has the Dish Network and he gets the NFL Network in HD. DirecTV doesn't offer the NFL Network in HD so I'm stuck watching the game in crappy regular programming. I probably won't watch it anyhow since I'm rolling at 8:30 PM to Best Buy. Oh well.

[DanGarion]

Something just doesn't seem right to me here. When we had a regular receiver from DirecTV we had to pay the lease fee. When we bought our HD-DVR we got rid of the lease fee, so I'm not sure that is an applicable cost. Also, there are various deals out there that will get the cost of DirecTV down further.

Then again, the Time Warner costs may be inflated as well with similar start-up deals as well.


Well those are the numbers the websites put together, so I dunno.

[Raiders Army]

To clarify, we didn't buy our receiver from DirecTV; it just came with the installation. We bought our HD-DVR from DirecTV and the lease fee went away.

[kcchief19]

On a different subject, their distribution. If the 41m figure is correct, here's some perspective (neither pro nor con, just for comparison)

ESPN = 90m
The Golf Channel = 60m
BBC America = 43m
FitTV = 36m
What NFL Network knows is that if it goes on the premium tier then it's likely to stay there.
I was thinking the precisely same thing, and oddly enough about the exact same networks. We have Time Warner Cable and have all three of those channels on our standard tier. I think the Golf Channel debuted on the standard tier, but both BBC America and FitTV started on a digital tier and moved to the standard tier eventually.

On one hand, I don't blame the NFL for not wanting Time Warner to put the NFL Network on a sports tier and benefit from that. Right now, the subscription sports tier available on my TWC where the NFL Network would go is basically a couple of Fox Sports Nets, CSTV, the Tennis Channel and Fuel. The only reason to subscribe is if you're crazy about Pac-10 football or Alabama State basketball. The NFL Network would be the loss leader to sell this other crap. TWC wants the NFL Network to help it sell other networks, and I don't blame the NFL for not wanting to get thrown in with those dogs.

But the NFL wants it both ways -- they want to charge a premium price to cable and charge a premium price to advertisers based on subscribers. They seem to think its 1979 and cable networks are struggling to find networks to fill out their lineups and that millions of people are dying to see Scott Linehan's press conference every week. If the NFL dropped their price, I'm sure TWC would cave and put it on their standard tier. What the NFL basically wants is to charge HBO prices and get on a standard tier. That's completely unreasonable.

I also wonder how much the Sunday Ticket issue plays into this. There is no doubt that the cable networks are ticked that the NFL renewed the exclusive deal with Direct TV. I'm sure cable companies see no reason to pay $5-10 per subscriber for countless promos for buying a dish.

[DanGarion]

I also wonder how much the Sunday Ticket issue plays into this. There is no doubt that the cable networks are ticked that the NFL renewed the exclusive deal with Direct TV. I'm sure cable companies see no reason to pay $5-10 per subscriber for countless promos for buying a dish.
Very true, that probably has a good deal to do with it as well. We thought that once the last contract was up it was going to be open season for both Cable and Direct TV and then Direct TV basically overpaid to keep Sunday Ticket and is using it as a loss leader to get more customers. Oh well all part of the game of capitalism.

[B & B]

Considering the first two games were pure crap, looks like the best of the bunch is the nighttime 830 NFL network kickoff game.

Already got myself some KC -1 for those looking to pick up some 'stocking stuffers'

[Router Help]

Hmmm, I have the NFL network, but there is a message scrolling across the screen that says my cable provider has decided to not show live primetime games. WTF? :mad:

[Mike1409]

Same here, nice semi pro film from 20 years ago!!! I called my provider an was told the NFL Network charged additional fees for the live games so they passed!!!!:mad:

[k0ruptr]

weird. Dish Network is alive and kicking with the game here in Hawaii.

[kingfc22]

Same here, nice semi pro film from 20 years ago!!! I called my provider an was told the NFL Network charged additional fees for the live games so they passed!!!!:mad:

That sucks. I have Comcast and I have their basic-expanded (non on-demand), but I do have the additional HD package. I turned on my TV and I was surprised to see the game on one of my HD channels even though I don't have the premium package that contains the NFL Network.

[Fidatelo]

Who is the play-by-play guy on this Broncos telecast? I'm a big fan of Collinsworth, but his partner is killing this telecast :(

[cuervo72]

Bryant Gumbel.

[Fidatelo]

Didn't this clown spend a few years butchering NFL games on a different station in the 90's?

[Philliesfan980]

Bryant Gumbel is brutal. Have you seen him on realsports lately? He looks like he weighs about 120 lbs.

[cuervo72]

Didn't this clown spend a few years butchering NFL games on a different station in the 90's?

Gumbel actually goes way back with the NFL - that's where he got his first network experience, iirc, with NBC doing studio work in the early 80's (if not back into the late 70's).

[hrm, looks like he signed on to do that in '75, and lasted through '82: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryant_Gumbel#NBC_Sports ]

[Pumpy Tudors]

If the Broncos weren't playing, I wouldn't even be watching this. Bryant Gumbel is horrible. :(

[kcchief19]

Yeah, Bryant hasn't done play by play in 20 years and he sounds like it's been 40 years. He's not the only brutal part of the telecast. Fortnuately the HD signal is being transmitted on our Fox affiliate, but other than the fact that it is in HD, the production values have been horrible -- late in and out of breaks is par for the course. We've heard Gumbel talking to people off air a couple of times.

[Raiders Army]

Both Gumbels are bad. I'd rather have Barney Gumble on there.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6711/barneyyb3.jpg

[miami_fan]

Since I can't see the game, I wonder.....is it Theisman bad? Sterling Sharpe bad? Give me a reference point.:D

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, want to chime in and agree with those that say in the PR battle, the cable companies are coming off better. People aren't blaming Time Warner or Comcast for not being able to see the game tonight, they are blaming the NFL, because they are putting it on their own network, which they want to charge major prices for and are using these games as leverage. Fully within their rights to do so, but people (at least those I've spoken to) seem to blame the NFL for doing so.

[kcchief19]

Since I can't see the game, I wonder.....is it Theisman bad? Sterling Sharpe bad? Give me a reference point.:D
Let me put it this way ... I'm not going to complain next time the Chiefs end up with Ian Eagle doing play by play.

[miami_fan]

Let me put it this way ... I'm not going to complain next time the Chiefs end up with Ian Eagle doing play by play.

Nuff said! Thank you Knology for not showing this game:D

[Philliesfan980]

Since I can't see the game, I wonder.....is it Theisman bad? Sterling Sharpe bad? Give me a reference point.:D

Have you ever heard Doug Godfrey on ESPN2 with Holly Roe (sp). That sums it up.

[Philliesfan980]

Let me put it this way ... I'm not going to complain next time the Chiefs end up with Ian Eagle doing play by play.

Give me Gus Johnson anyday. That guy needs to get moved up in the rotation.

[miami_fan]

Is this a week by week deal or did cable companies have to buy the entire package at once?

[jbergey22]

Is this a week by week deal or did cable companies have to buy the entire package at once?

Entire Package at once.
NFL Network wants to charge the cable companies ALMOST as much as ESPN charges them just for 8 games a year.

Cable companies do not want to charge this fee to ALL of their customers so have gladly agreed that they would distribute this channell as part of add on tier but NFL Network has declined. Basically saying, we hold the upper hand and we dont care about the extra revenue if we cant make every customer have our channel. Maybe they need to realize ESPN didnt start where it is today!!!

[RendeR]

Btw, want to chime in and agree with those that say in the PR battle, the cable companies are coming off better. People aren't blaming Time Warner or Comcast for not being able to see the game tonight, they are blaming the NFL, because they are putting it on their own network, which they want to charge major prices for and are using these games as leverage. Fully within their rights to do so, but people (at least those I've spoken to) seem to blame the NFL for doing so.


Actually public blame will be laid on either side regionally. here in western NY

they used to have "Adelphia" Cable who went through some major problems when their owners literally stole the company funds for themselves.

Adelphia offered the NFL Network with no qualms whatsoever. Now that Time-Warner stepped in to buy out the bankruptcy they've yanked adelphia's programming in favor of their own "standard" packages of networks. No more NFL network on Cable in western NY and the majority of the region is screaming bloody murder about it and blaming TWC directly for the problems they've had.

I had TWC when I lived in Troy, ny a number of years ago, I found them fairly typical of cable companies, a bit overpriced for what was offered, piss poor customer service, service people who were repeatedly hours late for appointments and rude on top of it when they did deign to arrive. Their service failed at least once a month and the cable internet was rediculously flawed and slow.

Now when I put my own experience with TWC together with my current experience with DirectTV and the huge outcry I hear locally, I hope TWC fails miserably here and people get a better provider that can actually support its customers.

[Butter]

I would say I'm pissed that the Bengals game is on the NFL Network with no TV in Dayton tonight, but since I scored tix to the game, I can't really say that.

Maybe Rudi can run over Ray Lewis a couple more times.

[RendeR]

I would say I'm pissed that the Bengals game is on the NFL Network with no TV in Dayton tonight, but since I scored tix to the game, I can't really say that.

Maybe Rudi can run over Ray Lewis a couple more times.


Preach on brother!

[Kodos]

Since I can't see the game, I wonder.....is it Theisman bad? Sterling Sharpe bad? Give me a reference point.:D

He's worse than Theisman. At least Theisman knows how to project his voice. Gumbel is simply horrid. Maybe the worst I've ever heard.

The Monday Night crew HAS to go. Mike Tirico is good if paired with the right guy (great with Herbstreit in college games), but Theisman and Kornheiser are unbearable. And the stupid guests in the booth each week is horrid too. They are trying to ruin the NFL! :mad:

[BrianD]

Actually public blame will be laid on either side regionally. here in western NY

they used to have "Adelphia" Cable who went through some major problems when their owners literally stole the company funds for themselves.

Adelphia offered the NFL Network with no qualms whatsoever. Now that Time-Warner stepped in to buy out the bankruptcy they've yanked adelphia's programming in favor of their own "standard" packages of networks. No more NFL network on Cable in western NY and the majority of the region is screaming bloody murder about it and blaming TWC directly for the problems they've had.

I had TWC when I lived in Troy, ny a number of years ago, I found them fairly typical of cable companies, a bit overpriced for what was offered, piss poor customer service, service people who were repeatedly hours late for appointments and rude on top of it when they did deign to arrive. Their service failed at least once a month and the cable internet was rediculously flawed and slow.

Now when I put my own experience with TWC together with my current experience with DirectTV and the huge outcry I hear locally, I hope TWC fails miserably here and people get a better provider that can actually support its customers.

I remember reading about this when the buy-out happened. TW offered to pay the same amount that Adelphia was paying, but the NFL Network wanted triple what Adelphia was paying. That is when TW told them to screw off.

[Ksyrup]

I raised an eyebrow when I read this in Peter King's MMQB (both what Billick did and King's endorsement of it), and Billick's team certainly played tonight like they had essentially less than 2 days to prepare:


Why do players seem to like playing for Brian Billick? Here he is, in a very short week, with a road game Thursday against Cincinnati, and he gave his team off today and Tuesday morning. Players don't have to be in until noon Tuesday, and they'll be leaving a little more than 24 hours later for Cincinnati.

[Butter]

Highlights of the game:

1. Standing near several fans shouting obscenities at Deion Sanders during the pregame show, which they had set-up on a main concourse. Even though he played for the Reds for a couple years, no one in Cincy likes the guy, still.

2. Shouting myself hoarse.

3. On an incomplete pass in the early part of the 4th quarter, the clock stopped momentarily, then continued to run... from 13:55, all the way to around 13:04 after the 4th down punt. I spotted this, and the Ravens argued something to the officials at this time, which I can only assume was "why didn't the clock stop?", but the clock was not changed after the play. I love picking up on stuff like this while being at the game that the announcers usually miss.

4. Spotting the muffed punt immediately in the 4th quarter.... again, some understanding of the rules really helps stadium viewing. If you didn't see it, with about 6 minutes left, the Ravens 3rd string kick returner bobbles the punt, which is then picked up by backup safety Ethan Kilmer and run into the end zone. As soon as he started to run with it, I told my dad "that's a muff". He tries to explain to the several stunned fans around me why it's not a touchdown... and a few actually didn't believe him. Apparently, many Bengals fans are not what you would call "rules buffs".

5. Having seats 4 rows from the top paid dividends, as we were protected from the rain by the canopy all night.

[Ksyrup]

I love picking up on stuff like this while being at the game that the announcers usually miss.

You know, ordinarily, I'm not one to complain about how bad so-and-so announcer sucks or what-not, but the one thing I cannot tolerate is lack of accuracy. Or at least, if you're going to be inaccurate, you need to be a Harry Caray-type personality that is otherwise humorous/interesting to listen to. And Bryant Gumbel was flat-out bad last night.

Not only is his voice not suited to football play-by-play, but he kept calling plays incorrectly. At least twice, he screwed up on who carried the ball for the Ravens (between Lewis and the other guy). And one time, Lewis barely got over the line of scrimmage and he said he got about 3 yards. After that play, I started following him more closely and he misjudged yards gained several times. I usually give a little slack on that, but that one carry was so ridiculous - it was obvious he barely gained a yard - that I really started to dislike pretty much every aspect of his performance last night.

It's too bad the NFL didn't can him for his comments earlier in the season about Tags' replacement being a puppet or whatever he said.

[Samdari]

I would say I'm pissed that the Bengals game is on the NFL Network with no TV in Dayton tonight

It had been announced that, much like the NFL games on ESPN, the games would be on local channels in the markets of the two teams playing. Is this not true?

[Butter]

The game was on local TV on a Cincinnati station, but Dayton is about 50 miles away, so is considered a secondary market with no local TV station allowed coverage. Lexington, KY was in the same boat, a solid Bengals market, but they're 80 miles away from Cincy and as such don't get to carry the NFL Network coverage over the air.

[Ksyrup]

Lucky for me, I have DirecTV.

[Warhammer]

He's worse than Theisman. At least Theisman knows how to project his voice. Gumbel is simply horrid. Maybe the worst I've ever heard.

The Monday Night crew HAS to go. Mike Tirico is good if paired with the right guy (great with Herbstreit in college games), but Theisman and Kornheiser are unbearable. And the stupid guests in the booth each week is horrid too. They are trying to ruin the NFL! :mad:

Thiesman is at least bearable, but Kornheiser really needs to go. All he tries to do is get Joe riled up and it gets old quick. The guests get old too.

What they need to do is get two guys that subscribe to completely different theories on football and are from two completely different backgrounds. Put them in there and just let them talk. Don't try to create conflict, let it create itself.

[Pumpy Tudors]

As soon as he started to run with it, I told my dad "that's a muff".
I remember saying the same thing to my dad one time in the French Quarter during Mardi Gras.

[Butter]

Your dad needed that pointed out, did he?

[flere-imsaho]

He's worse than Theisman. At least Theisman knows how to project his voice. Gumbel is simply horrid. Maybe the worst I've ever heard.

I've had it with Gumbel ever since his crack that none of the athletes in the Winter Olympics were real athletes.

The Monday Night crew HAS to go. Mike Tirico is good if paired with the right guy (great with Herbstreit in college games), but Theisman and Kornheiser are unbearable. And the stupid guests in the booth each week is horrid too. They are trying to ruin the NFL! :mad:

They've grown on me, actually. I think Kornheiser has pulled back a little on his stuff, but his calling Theisman on his BS has forced Theisman to be a little more circumspect, which is good. Now if they could only get rid of those god-awful booth interviews....

I raised an eyebrow when I read this in Peter King's MMQB (both what Billick did and King's endorsement of it), and Billick's team certainly played tonight like they had essentially less than 2 days to prepare:


I saw that too, and felt the same way, but it looks like it worked. To be honest, though, none of these guys should need more conditioning at this point in the season.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Your dad needed that pointed out, did he?
In the French Quarter, you can never be sure.

[RendeR]

I remember reading about this when the buy-out happened. TW offered to pay the same amount that Adelphia was paying, but the NFL Network wanted triple what Adelphia was paying. That is when TW told them to screw off.

The NFL demanded more from TWC because TWC has/had almost 4X the number of subscribers. If you offered your services to 10 people at one price wouldn't you raise it accordingly to service 40?

[DanGarion]

The NFL demanded more from TWC because TWC has/had almost 4X the number of subscribers. If you offered your services to 10 people at one price wouldn't you raise it accordingly to service 40?
You don't know how channels are paid for. The NFL wanted 3 times as much per subscriber.

[Galaxy]

The NFL demanded more from TWC because TWC has/had almost 4X the number of subscribers. If you offered your services to 10 people at one price wouldn't you raise it accordingly to service 40?


So a company should increase it's rate per customer because they have more?
As what others said, NFL Network wanted to charge 3x per customer.

Personally, both companies are spinning this this. Also, on a related note, I'm a little concern at the aggressive corporate stragety of the NFL overall.

[DanGarion]

Let's also remember the more viewers the NFL Network gets the more they can also make on advertising.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'm taking a stand. As long as Bryant Gumbel is doing play-by-play for the NFL Network, I won't watch it.

Take THAT, NFL Network!

(I never really watched NFL Network anyway)

[rkmsuf]

I'm taking a stand. As long as Bryant Gumbel is doing play-by-play for the NFL Network, I won't watch it.

Take THAT, NFL Network!

(I never really watched NFL Network anyway)

Larry Johnson is demanding they get a black guy to call the games.

[sterlingice]

I'm taking a stand. As long as Bryant Gumbel is doing play-by-play for the NFL Network, I won't watch it.

Take THAT, NFL Network!

(I never really watched NFL Network anyway)

Way to take a stand! Do you only get in Taxis that are yellow, also? How about only eating at restaurants with clean plates? ;)

SI

[Pumpy Tudors]

I just got pwn3d. :(

[korme]

The game was on local TV on a Cincinnati station, but Dayton is about 50 miles away, so is considered a secondary market with no local TV station allowed coverage. Lexington, KY was in the same boat, a solid Bengals market, but they're 80 miles away from Cincy and as such don't get to carry the NFL Network coverage over the air.

In Dayton myself, we went to Bw3's last night off North Fairfield and it was packed, no seating. So we went to a local bar and watched it. WHO DEY BOYS

[cuervo72]

I hate to say it, but watching last night was like watching a preseason game (ok, so the unseasonably warm temps didn't help).

And the Wendy's halftime graphics look like they were ripped off from ABC's college football broadcasts.

[Ksyrup]

I saw that too, and felt the same way, but it looks like it worked. To be honest, though, none of these guys should need more conditioning at this point in the season.

If by "worked" you mean unprepared and not into the game, then yes, I guess Billick's strategy "worked."

It isn't about conditioning so much as preparing for your next opponent and getting mentally prepared to play a game on a quick turnaround. I understand they were coming off a dominating win, but why give them a day and a half off during a very short week? Why not give them the time off after the Thursday game, when you've got another 9-10 days before your next game?

He may have scored some "cool" points, but they looked awful last night.

[kcchief19]

I hate to say it, but watching last night was like watching a preseason game (ok, so the unseasonably warm temps didn't help).

And the Wendy's halftime graphics look like they were ripped off from ABC's college football broadcasts.
The NFL Network claimed the game here in Kansas City would feature a "Super Bowl quality" halftime show.

After the halftime show featured John Fogerty in his second halftime show of the day, a local newspaper columnist had this response -- "they promised us Super Bowl quality, they just didn't tell us they meant Super Bowl III."

[flere-imsaho]

If by "worked" you mean unprepared and not into the game, then yes, I guess Billick's strategy "worked."

Good point. I somehow got it into my head that they won. I need to stop posting when I haven't had enough sleep.

However, from a conditioning standpoint, at this point in the season the players should be as conditioned as they're going to be. The lack of time spent studying film and preparing is, I would assume, what bit them. Especially given that they could only put up 7 points against a Bengals defense that hasn't exactly been stellar this season.

[TazFTW]

Saw this on KFFL,


NFL | NFL Network will offer one free week to two cable operators
Tue, 12 Dec 2006 22:26:38 -0800
The Associated Press reports the <A href="http://www.kffl.com/team/77/nfl">NFL has offered one free week of NFL (http://www.kffl.com/team/77/nfl) Network programming to two cable TB operators who don't carry the channel. Cablevision will broadcast the NFL (http://www.kffl.com/team/77/nfl) Network only for the Dec. 28 Texas Bowl between Rutgers and Kansas State, showing all pre- and postgame coverage. Commissioner Roger Goodell told the Associated Press that the week of Dec. 24-30 would be offered as a "free view" for customers of Cablevision and Time Warner Cable. The NFL (http://www.kffl.com/team/77/nfl) Network would be offered on the expanded basic levels of both carriers.

Haven't seen any announcement from my cable company (Time Warner) about this but I hope they agree to show it so I can see what the channel offers.

[sterlingice]

How easy is it for a cable company to set up to show a station just for one week that they don't even carry?

Also, if they show a Gumbel game, how many people will see what kind of a farce this really is?

SI

[jbergey22]

How easy is it for a cable company to set up to show a station just for one week that they don't even carry?

Also, if they show a Gumbel game, how many people will see what kind of a farce this really is?

SI

I wouldnt think it would be extremely hard. They just have to uplink the signal via satellite and pass it on to their customers.\ through the end head(the local cable carries with all the satellite dishes pointing towards the sky). The same way they are able to provide PPV channels.

As far as Gumble, I havent actually seen a game on NFL Network but I have heard he is horrible, so maybe it wont be a good thing for them. That is good news it seems that NFL Network may be losing the battle and they may have to lower their demands.

[thesloppy]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I find Gumbel/Collinsworth to be a fine announcing team, especially compared to the MNF crew. Then again, I also think Ron Pitts/Jesse Palmer is a great crew, so you may want to ignore my opinion entirely (if you haven't already).

[miami_fan]

The NFL's ability to negotiate exclusive sports packages is under fire from the outgoing chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) twice said he would introduce legislation in the next session aimed at eliminating the league's freedom from antitrust laws.

Specter said the NFL should not use the exemption to negotiate exclusive programming packages such as DirecTV's Sunday Ticket, which allows viewers to watch teams outside their regional market.

"As I look at what the NFL is doing today with the NFL channel with the DirecTV . . . a lot of people, including myself, would like to be able to have that ticket," Specter said.

But the 1961 law that gives the NFL this freedom should not apply to DirecTV because it is not "sponsored programming," said Stephen Ross, a law professor at Penn State and chair of the school's sports law institute. He said Specter might be using the threat of legislation to pressure the NFL to make changes voluntarily.

Access to out-of-market football games was one of many consumer fairness issues addressed during the hearing. Another hot topic was whether cable providers should be forced to share sports broadcasting rights with every service provider in an area.

David Cohen, executive vice president of Comcast Corp., said his company has not made a local Philadelphia sports network it owns available to DirecTV because it is one way his company can stay competitive with the Sunday Ticket package.

"What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander," he said.

[Aylmar]

Thank God the Senate has important issues to talk about such as the public's access to out-of-market football games. I was worried they were running out of problems to solve...

[Pumpy Tudors]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I find Gumbel/Collinsworth to be a fine announcing team, especially compared to the MNF crew. Then again, I also think Ron Pitts/Jesse Palmer is a great crew, so you may want to ignore my opinion entirely (if you haven't already).
I like Ron Pitts, and Jesse Palmer was The Bachelor, so you can't go wrong there. Gumbel is really the worst professional play-by-play announcer I've ever heard, though. Obviously, that's just an opinion, but he singlehandedly keeps me from watching football on NFL Network.

JESSE PALMER WAS THE BACHELOR, THOUGH!!!

[Marathoner]

I can't wait to see Gumbel/Collinsworth in action after all the rave reviews, then again I like the movies on MST3K.

[panerd]

"As I look at what the NFL is doing today with the NFL channel with the DirecTV . . . a lot of people, including myself, would like to be able to have that ticket," Specter said.
.

Then pony up and buy a fucking dish you rich, cheap, piece of shit.

[Craptacular]

Then pony up and buy a fucking dish you rich, cheap, piece of shit.

I doubt it applies to him, but you know there are millions of people in the U.S. who have no place to put a dish at all, or can't put one where they can get the signal. Canadians can get Sunday Ticket on cable, but we can't. I personally think the NFL is fucking up big time on this (and the NFL Network) and hope it comes back to bite them in the a$$.

[Aylmar]

I doubt it applies to him, but you know there are millions of people in the U.S. who have no place to put a dish at all, or can't put one where they can get the signal. Canadians can get Sunday Ticket on cable, but we can't. I personally think the NFL is fucking up big time on this (and the NFL Network) and hope it comes back to bite them in the a$$.

The Ticket has been exclusive on DirecTV for ten years. Why is it so important now and not, say, nine years ago? Or are you just talking about the games on NFL Network?

[Ksyrup]

I hope they include Sirius and XM in on this, so they can force them to stop their exclusive deals with Oprah, Howard Stern, the NBA, NHL, MLB, and NFL. Oh, and don't forget Garth Brooks and Wal-Mart. And then there's Starbucks and Bob Dylan and a bunch of others. Yep, the NFL should certainly be singled out for this...:rolleyes:

[Ksyrup]

I doubt it applies to him, but you know there are millions of people in the U.S. who have no place to put a dish at all, or can't put one where they can get the signal. Canadians can get Sunday Ticket on cable, but we can't. I personally think the NFL is fucking up big time on this (and the NFL Network) and hope it comes back to bite them in the a$$.

The notion that a private league cannot determine when and where its own games are to be televised is beyond ridiculous. Do we have some "right" to watch every game? I'm surprised it took the NFL this long to create its own network and sell itself the rights to a number of games. MLB teams have been doing this for years (Cubs, Braves, Yankees). It's just good business practice to capitalize on the popularity of the sport they created. As far as the disputes with cable companies, it's simple supply and demand. It's freaking football, not some life and death, basic human right they are withholding. You want it, you pay for it.

[sterlingice]

I hope they include Sirius and XM in on this, so they can force them to stop their exclusive deals with Oprah, Howard Stern, the NBA, NHL, MLB, and NFL. Oh, and don't forget Garth Brooks and Wal-Mart. And then there's Starbucks and Bob Dylan and a bunch of others. Yep, the NFL should certainly be singled out for this...:rolleyes:

Well, again, tho, the issue is not as much exclusivity as uncompetitive exclusivity due to antitrust.

SI

[Aylmar]

Well, again, tho, the issue is not as much exclusivity as uncompetitive exclusivity due to antitrust.

SI

But local markets get all cable games (including NFLN) rebroadcast to normal networks. So, basically what we're discussing is the right to view games for teams that aren't in your market. That's the only "exclusive" portion of this discussion...

[Ksyrup]

Well, again, tho, the issue is not as much exclusivity as uncompetitive exclusivity due to antitrust.

SI

You get plenty of free college football and arena football games. The NFL has the exclusive right to determine how to televise its own games because it is the most popular professional football league in the world. But there are other free choices - not to mention at least 3 or 4 free NFL games a week in every corner of the country.

If you don't like it, form your own "competitive" league and televise it how you want.

[Craptacular]

The Ticket has been exclusive on DirecTV for ten years. Why is it so important now and not, say, nine years ago? Or are you just talking about the games on NFL Network?

I'm not saying it is more important now. I think they've fucked it up from the beginning, and the current situation with the NFLN is making it worse.

The notion that a private league cannot determine when and where its own games are to be televised is beyond ridiculous. Do we have some "right" to watch every game? I'm surprised it took the NFL this long to create its own network and sell itself the rights to a number of games. MLB teams have been doing this for years (Cubs, Braves, Yankees). It's just good business practice to capitalize on the popularity of the sport they created. As far as the disputes with cable companies, it's simple supply and demand. It's freaking football, not some life and death, basic human right they are withholding. You want it, you pay for it.

Nowhere in my post do I say or imply anything about a private league not being able to determine when and where they show their games. I simply stated that not everyone can get the Sunday Ticket even if they want it (short of moving to a new home), and that I thought the NFL has made a series of mistakes in this regard. In my view, they are hurting themselves and screwing over many of their fans.

[TazFTW]

Saw this on KFFL,



Haven't seen any announcement from my cable company (Time Warner) about this but I hope they agree to show it so I can see what the channel offers.

Time Warner put up a message on their info channel and mine reads, the NFL's offer for a seven day freeview of the NFL network only applies to the New York City and New Jersey areas. It is not a nationwide offer.

:mad:

[Ksyrup]

I completely forgot about last night's game until there was 1:34 left in the 4th quarter. I'm glad it sucked.

[Craptacular]

I completely forgot about last night's game until there was 1:34 left in the 4th quarter. I'm glad it sucked.

The more the games on NFLN suck, the better.

[BrianD]

After watching the NFLNetwork "product" last night, I have no interest in asking my cable company to get the channel. Aside from bad announcers (and I used to like Bryant Gumbel), we had bad camera work and people talking about details on a replay that were shown to the audience. I realize that their product will probably get better as time goes by, but I don't have much interest in paying more for my cable just to watch yet another network try to figure out how to televise the sport.

[RendeR]

I simply stated that not everyone can get the Sunday Ticket even if they want it (short of moving to a new home), and that I thought the NFL has made a series of mistakes in this regard. In my view, they are hurting themselves and screwing over many of their fans.


I'd like to see why you think everyone can't get sunday ticket? To get it you simply need to subscribe to Direct TV and buy the package. Anyone in the world can get direcTV if they're willing to pay for it (its a sattelite system, it can be recieved anywhere the sattelite system reaches which at this point is nearly the entire northern hemisphere and parts of the southern(according to their installer who may or may not have accurate information))

Based on that possibility the only people who "cannot get" sunday ticket are those who "CHOOSE" not to get sunday ticket.

I'm not seeing your issue.

[DanGarion]

I'd like to see why you think everyone can't get sunday ticket? To get it you simply need to subscribe to Direct TV and buy the package. Anyone in the world can get direcTV if they're willing to pay for it (its a sattelite system, it can be recieved anywhere the sattelite system reaches which at this point is nearly the entire northern hemisphere and parts of the southern(according to their installer who may or may not have accurate information))

Based on that possibility the only people who "cannot get" sunday ticket are those who "CHOOSE" not to get sunday ticket.

I'm not seeing your issue.

Have you ever lived in an apartment, or a condo or house that has a association? Not everyone can get direcTV.

[RendeR]

I can understand some complexes will deny their customers access to direcTV, and that would force the moving issue, but if you own a home and allow some group of elitist homeowners to dictate how you live in your home you make the same choice, not to get it.

[DanGarion]

I can understand some complexes will deny their customers access to direcTV, and that would force the moving issue, but if you own a home and allow some group of elitist homeowners to dictate how you live in your home you make the same choice, not to get it.

That's not the way it works.

But anyway. If you don't have direcTV you can't get Sunday Ticket. Not everyone wants direcTV. Not to mention some people cannot afford direcTV or cable.

It's not as blank and white as you try to lay it out to be.

[ISiddiqui]

Bullshit... just because you choose to live in a home with restrictions doesn't mean you choose not to get Direct TV. Consent for one thing doesn't lead to consent for the other.

[RendeR]

The fact is exactly that, if you CHOOSE to allow an association to make rules which limit YOUR ability to get something you are therefore CHOOSING to not get that thing, either that or you CHOOSE to ignore the association and get it anyway.

One does indeed imply the latter.

[sterlingice]

The fact is exactly that, if you CHOOSE to allow an association to make rules which limit YOUR ability to get something you are therefore CHOOSING to not get that thing, either that or you CHOOSE to ignore the association and get it anyway.

One does indeed imply the latter.

I would think that 1) it's a huge, life changing event to change just because you can't watch a few football games and 2) you can't necessarily out-politik some asshat who wants to be head of the housing association, thus making it worse for you.

SI

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Under current federal regulations (which have been in place for a few years now), I don't believe a homeowners association, condo association, landlord, etc. can legally prevent you from mounting a dish on the property and subscribing to Direct TV.

[Vegas Vic]

Under current federal regulations (which have been in place for a few years now), I don't believe a homeowners association, condo association, landlord, etc. can legally prevent you from mounting a dish on the property and subscribing to Direct TV.

I don't know about that, but at the very least they can restrict the dish locations to very specific, non-obtrusive locations that are not easily visible. That's what they did in my CCR's.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yes, that is correct. They are allowed to reasonably restrict it but not prohibit it altogether.

From the federal government's website:

Q: What types of restrictions are prohibited?

A: The rule prohibits restrictions that impair a person's ability to install, maintain, or use an antenna covered by the rule. The rule applies to state or local laws or regulations, including zoning, land-use or building regulations, private covenants, homeowners' association rules, condominium or cooperative association restrictions, lease restrictions, or similar restrictions on property within the exclusive use or control of the antenna user where the user has an ownership or leasehold interest in the property. A restriction impairs if it: (1) unreasonably delays or prevents use of; (2) unreasonably increases the cost of; or (3) precludes a person from receiving or transmitting an acceptable quality signal from an antenna covered under the rule. The rule does not prohibit legitimate safety restrictions or restrictions designed to preserve designated or eligible historic or prehistoric properties, provided the restriction is no more burdensome than necessary to accomplish the safety or preservation purpose.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Here's a quick FAQ sheet about the regulation if anyone was not aware of it and needs it to fight their condo association/landlord:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html#QA

[Galaxy]

The NFL's ability to negotiate exclusive sports packages is under fire from the outgoing chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) twice said he would introduce legislation in the next session aimed at eliminating the league's freedom from antitrust laws.

Specter said the NFL should not use the exemption to negotiate exclusive programming packages such as DirecTV's Sunday Ticket, which allows viewers to watch teams outside their regional market.

"As I look at what the NFL is doing today with the NFL channel with the DirecTV . . . a lot of people, including myself, would like to be able to have that ticket," Specter said.

But the 1961 law that gives the NFL this freedom should not apply to DirecTV because it is not "sponsored programming," said Stephen Ross, a law professor at Penn State and chair of the school's sports law institute. He said Specter might be using the threat of legislation to pressure the NFL to make changes voluntarily.

Access to out-of-market football games was one of many consumer fairness issues addressed during the hearing. Another hot topic was whether cable providers should be forced to share sports broadcasting rights with every service provider in an area.

David Cohen, executive vice president of Comcast Corp., said his company has not made a local Philadelphia sports network it owns available to DirecTV because it is one way his company can stay competitive with the Sunday Ticket package.

"What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander," he said.

How exactly is it anti-trust when the NFL has no competition? If these Senators and congressmen want to take a stand, cut the NFL from giving them tax dollars to finance stadiums and such.

[Raiders Army]

Note to Bryant Gumbel: they don't give it up on downs if they punt! He's said that the past two series when the Chiefs and Raiders haven't made a 3rd down conversion.

I think he's gleeful that there's something worse out there than his announcing skills; however, that is very debatable.

[flere-imsaho]

Warren Sapp seems to be trying tonight. I'm hoping he'll get pissed enough to choke John Shoop later. :)

[flere-imsaho]

No offense, Chiefs and Raiders fans, but the best thing about this game is that I was able to see an entire episode of Scrubs during the halftime show. :)

[kcchief19]

Yeah, this game has had all the excitement of an exhibition game. And with Bryant Gumbel doing the play-by-play and NFL Network handling the broadcast, it has the sound and production values of an exhibition broadcast put together by a local affiliate.

Gumbel stands in stark contrast to Vermeil. Vermeil was a very commentator before he got back into coaching, and he was understandably rusty early on. But whereas Vermeil actually improved and hit his stride throughout the game, Gumbel still sucks just as much as he did when I saw him on Thanksgiving.

[Raiders Army]

Copy of the email I sent about an hour ago to [email protected]:

To whom it may concern,

Bryant Gumbel is a complete and utter idiot. Please get him off my TV screen. When a team does not make a 3rd down conversion, they do not "turn it over on downs." He also has called the wrong player's name numerous times. Replace him with Deion Sanders, Marshall Faulk, anyone. If you truly wish to bring the NFL Network to Time Warner, then get rid of him. In fact, if you wish the NFL Network to be successful on any medium, get rid of him. He's pathetic.

Thank you,
<Name Witheld Upon Request>
DirecTV and Time Warner subscriber

[kcchief19]

Oh, and Time Warner has the NFL Network setup for a our free week starting tomorrow. I'm looking through the program guide and laughing my ass off.

The NFL Network thinks it's on the level of ESPN. The NFL Network sets a record this week by broadcasting FOUR live games, two pro and two college. There will probably be a day during the next week when ESPN has that many live games in a day.

Following the game tonight, NFLN will show us NFL Total Access, a one-hour post-post game show about tonight's game. They will re-air the same broadcast six straight times overnight, interrupt at 4:30 for an NFL Films Presentation of something called "Just Throw It" with Rod Smith and Mike Leach. Then it's SEVEN more airings of the rerun of NFL Total Access.

From noon to 7 tomorrow, I'll get their "highlights and analysis" of each game during the day with post-game press conferences. Cool. That's followed at 7 by their highlight show, NFL GameDay. Following NFL Game Day will be NINE MORE repeats of NFL GameDay.

Betwen now and Monday afternoon when they begin their Monday pregame shows, they will show a grand total of FOUR different shows.

How is that on par with ESPN? Yeah, ESPN reruns SportsCenter ... they don't rerun the previous days SportsCenter nine times in a row. Heck, tomorrow ESPN, CBS and Fox are doing pregame shows, NFLN is rerunning tonight's post-game show.

Hillarious.

[kcchief19]

During a TV timeout, I flip over to the NFL Network to check out "The Red Zone." It's a simulcast of the Sirius NFL radio show with stats cycling through. It's like listening to the radio while surfing the net. Maximim NFL, baby!

From everything I've seen thus far, there is more original programming, better production values and more effort put into CSPAN than there is this thing. I'd be pissed as hell if Time Warner dumped a real basic channel with actual programming for this. It's ESPNews with better PR.

Nut up, NFL. Put this thing on digital cable, get into some households and develop some actually programming before you think you're on par with ESPN and Fox. From watching this thus far, my conclusion is the the NFLN people are seriously delusional in what they think passes for quality programming in this day and age.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, the Red Zone provides nothing to someone with the internet. I mean it's absolutely ridiculous that they think a lot of people are watching that.

[Craptacular]

Been away for a few days, but here is the key:


The rule applies to individuals who place antennas that meet size limitations on property that they own or rent and that is within their exclusive use or control, including condominium owners and cooperative owners, and tenants who have an area where they have exclusive use, such as a balcony or patio, in which to install the antenna.


So, if you happen to have to a balcony or patio in your apartment or condo, AND you can position the satellite for the proper angle, this rule would let you mount it. Heck, you could mount it inside and have line-of-sight through the window if you must. However, you don't have the right to automatically mount an antenna on your apartment complex's roof, or attach it to the exterior wall outside your apartment. So, unless the condo or apartments allow you to mount an antenna in a common space, a lot of people can't get a dish. How many millions of people, especially in big cities, live in apartments that don't face the proper direction, don't have an outside deck or balcony, or even if they are lucky with the first two, have adjacent buildings (or trees) that block the line-of-sight? I would think the number of people in NYC that could technically get a dish mounted and pointed in the right direction is a lot less than the number of people who couldn't.

[Aylmar]

Been away for a few days, but here is the key:



So, if you happen to have to a balcony or patio in your apartment or condo, AND you can position the satellite for the proper angle, this rule would let you mount it. Heck, you could mount it inside and have line-of-sight through the window if you must. However, you don't have the right to automatically mount an antenna on your apartment complex's roof, or attach it to the exterior wall outside your apartment. So, unless the condo or apartments allow you to mount an antenna in a common space, a lot of people can't get a dish. How many millions of people, especially in big cities, live in apartments that don't face the proper direction, don't have an outside deck or balcony, or even if they are lucky with the first two, have adjacent buildings (or trees) that block the line-of-sight? I would think the number of people in NYC that could technically get a dish mounted and pointed in the right direction is a lot less than the number of people who couldn't.

I still don't understand what your problem is with this whole thing. If you live in a place where you can't get a dish, any games for your immediate local market that are isolated on non-antenna networks (ESPN, NFLN) are rebroadcast over a local network so that you can get it via antenna. So what's the problem? That relocated Vikings fans in NYC can't watch the Vikings game every week without DirecTV?

As for the programming during the games, why would NFL teams fund a network that actually offers appealing programming when their product is being shown on other networks? Of course programming during Sunday game time-slots is going to suck. In that case, the teams want you to watch the games, not the NFLN.

[Craptacular]

I still don't understand what your problem is with this whole thing.

We're talking about two different things here (NFLN and the Sunday Ticket). First, I believe the NFL is moving backwards on one of the things that made them the most popular of the big sports ... the availability of games on free local networks. Unless the game didn't sellout, you used to be be assured of being able to watch your local team play every game. The NFL made shitloads of money that way, and would have continued to do so without showing a single game on ESPN or NFLN. They're losing the opportunity to make games available to as many of their fans as possible, and I think that's a mistake. I hope the NFLN flops. I don't blame the cable companies for fighting them on this.

As for the Sunday Ticket, you'd think they'd want to make that available to as many rabid, diehard NFL fans as possible. It's sad that Canada has better availability of Sunday Ticket than we do.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Actually, I believe the NFL likes cashing the whopper checks from DirectTV more than anything else with regards to Sunday Ticket. That's your answer.

[Aylmar]

We're talking about two different things here (NFLN and the Sunday Ticket). First, I believe the NFL is moving backwards on one of the things that made them the most popular of the big sports ... the availability of games on free local networks. Unless the game didn't sellout, you used to be be assured of being able to watch your local team play every game.

And, as I've said before, that remains the case today. You are assured of getting to see the local market team play every game (unless, as you mentioned, the game doesn't sell out). The rules about not being able to cut away from a local game in progress are the still in place, even with the rebroadcast NFLN games. So, again, I wonder what the big issue here is that has you hoping for NFLN to fail. Just a general dislike for the NFL, perhaps?

[ISiddiqui]

Why would he hate the NFL if he's posting in this thread? That's silly. These games probably would have been on ESPN or TNT had they not gotten on NFLN. Some pretty decent games (well, some of them) would have been available to more people and on Hi-Definition to those who don't get NFLN HD.

So, I'm rooting for the NFLN to fail as well... horribly. I'm not sure if you are going to call me an NFL hater for that.

[cuervo72]

I wish they had an NFL Network Classic instead. THAT I'd watch more.

[wade moore]

Ok.

All along I thought this was dumb of the NFL, but that was the extent of it.

Now I'm officially pissed.

Since I moved to Williamsburg, the Redskins have ALWAYS been the local team. We get their pre-season games, every regular season game, etc.

Guess what I don't get tonight? The Redskins game.

So this idea that you still get your local teams games is complete crap.

[Aylmar]

Ok.

All along I thought this was dumb of the NFL, but that was the extent of it.

Now I'm officially pissed.

Since I moved to Williamsburg, the Redskins have ALWAYS been the local team. We get their pre-season games, every regular season game, etc.

Guess what I don't get tonight? The Redskins game.

So this idea that you still get your local teams games is complete crap.

It's only for the primary market. You must live in a secondary Redskins market. According to what I've read, secondary market simulcasts are optional for the network affiliate. For the record, it sucks that you don't get the Redskins game. It's the kind of thing that would send me to a bar and then get me seriously thinking about a dish. Of course, I've rooted for an out of market team my whole life, so I bought the Ticket as soon as it became available. Maybe that's why I'm so out of touch with this thing. I don't depend on local broadcasts to see my team. In fact, until last season, I cursed a local broadcast on CBS, since I wasn't able to pickup the local HD feed with my antenna. That's one thing I enjoy about NFLN. Every game they carry can be picked up in HD. In that sense, they are already superior to the jokers at CBS.

[RPI-Fan]

It's only for the primary market. You must live in a secondary Redskins market. According to what I've read, secondary market simulcasts are optional for the network affiliate. For the record, it sucks that you don't get the Redskins game. It's the kind of thing that would send me to a bar and then get me seriously thinking about a dish. Of course, I've rooted for an out of market team my whole life, so I bought the Ticket as soon as it became available. Maybe that's why I'm so out of touch with this thing. I don't depend on local broadcasts to see my team. In fact, until last season, I cursed a local broadcast on CBS, since I wasn't able to pickup the local HD feed with my antenna. That's one thing I enjoy about NFLN. Every game they carry can be picked up in HD. In that sense, they are already superior to the jokers at CBS.

Here's another prospective... I love the NFL but don't really have a favorite team. Here in upstate New York, 3 FUCKING hours from New York City, I especially have no interest in the Giants or Jets. That is, I am disinterested in them, not uninterested. If either of them are in a good game with heavy implications, I'll be the first to line up to watch it. But if the Chargers and Broncos are playing in a great game at the same time while the Jets play the Raiders or something, then I want to see that game instead.

So basically, I get saddled with the Giants & Jets all year round, making me unable to see a number of great games that I'd like to watch, and now they don't even show me the Giants Saturday night game? So they want to force me to be a Giants fan, but won't even show the game??

[Craptacular]

And, as I've said before, that remains the case today. You are assured of getting to see the local market team play every game (unless, as you mentioned, the game doesn't sell out). The rules about not being able to cut away from a local game in progress are the still in place, even with the rebroadcast NFLN games. So, again, I wonder what the big issue here is that has you hoping for NFLN to fail. Just a general dislike for the NFL, perhaps?

OK, I guess I'm looking at it from more of a perspective like Wade Moore below. We are not in the "primary" market for the Packers, so we didn't get the Packer - Viking game, although we certainly would consider the Packers as our local team and would get all the Packer games under the old system. I like the NFL, but would still like to see this experiment fail. The old system allowed them to become the most popular league in the U.S. and reach almost every fan with a TV, and they made tons of money. What was the problem? Every other major sport has done something to fuck up, and I think the NFL is treading down that path.

[wade moore]

Yeah, I must be in the secondary market crap.

This is garbage. It's the only situation in which I cannot see the local team.

Only one that gets money out of this situation is the local Hooters, nice going NFL.

[Logan]

I'm sure I'm extremely late to the party, but being that this is the first NFL game on watching on the NFL Network...

How the hell is Bryant Gumbel an announcer? Not only is he horrible, but he sounds like he's doing this game from his HBO studio while simultaneously nodding at Bernie Goldberg.

[cuervo72]

I may be mistaken here...but this could be Tiki Barber's last game. Figured you might not have heard.

[Logan]

I may be mistaken here...but this could be Tiki Barber's last game. Figured you might not have heard.

Can't wait until he's sitting next to Tom Arnold on "Best Damn Sports Show Period!"

[cuervo72]

Well, from what they've mentioned on the NFLN broadcast (and they've only mentioned Tiki oh, 897 times so far), sounds like he wants to do a morning show (and has talked with Gumbel about it apparently).

[Logan]

Well, from what they've mentioned on the NFLN broadcast (and they've only mentioned Tiki oh, 897 times so far), sounds like he wants to do a morning show (and has talked with Gumbel about it apparently).

He's going to end up having to talk about what Paris Hilton is up to, the latest Trump-Rosie feud, etc. All this after he made it seem like he was going to be a big-time journalist interviewing political candidates. The joke is on him.

[Mustang]

Did someone just belch on air in the NFL game? ??

[Logan]

Did someone just belch on air in the NFL game? ??

I'm really glad someone else heard that. It was definitely Collinsworth.

Edit: According to Gumbel, they don't have indigestion, it's due to an "open mic somewhere." Uh huh.

[Mustang]

*L*

They just said that it wasn't them.. it is an open mic somewhere.

Good god..

[Logan]

You can't beat me Mustang.

[Logan]

I might turn out to sound like an ass, but I'm 99% sure I'm right about this:

Gumbel just said that, as Tiki came up short on a 3rd down run, Washington will "take over on downs." This is of course, before a punt on 4th down. Am I wrong in saying that you only take over on downs when all 4 downs are used?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Did someone just belch on air in the NFL game? ??

I heard it earlier too and thought I was just hearing things...

How many times do we have to hear "And they turn the ball over on downs" before a punt?

[Logan]

I heard it earlier too and thought I was just hearing things...

How many times do we have to hear "And they turn the ball over on downs" before a punt?

Nice, so I'm not the only one who expects play-by-play guys to know the basic rules of the game.

[KevinNU7]

Can the Giants actually win?!

[Mustang]

Nice, so I'm not the only one who expects play-by-play guys to know the basic rules of the game.

Ya... Gumbel is an idiot. I think I've just tuned him out.

[KevinNU7]

You think someone in the booth would have told him by now.

[cuervo72]

Nah, Collinsworth is too classy to tell Gumbel he's an idiot.

[DanGarion]

NFL Communications - The tradition continues: NFL to remain on broadcast TV « (http://nflcommunications.com/2011/12/14/the-tradition-continues-nfl-to-remain-on-broadcast-tv/)

Thanksgiving night game to be back on broadcast TV!

CBS, FOX & NBC Sunday packages extended through 2022 season – longest-ever NFL agreements with over-air broadcast partners
The National Football League has agreed to nine-year extensions of its Sunday broadcast television packages with CBS, FOX and NBC that will keep NFL games on free, over-the-air television, Commissioner Roger Goodell announced today. The nine-year terms are the longest for NFL television agreements with over-the-air broadcast partners, surpassing the eight-year deals signed with CBS, FOX and ABC from 1998-2005.
The new agreements run through the 2022 season. The NFL’s current television agreements expire following the 2013 season.
The agreements also enable the NFL to expand its Thursday night package of games on NFL Network beginning next year. The number of additional Thursday night games has not been determined.
The NFL is the only sports league that delivers all of its games – regular-season and playoffs – on free, over-the-air television. (ESPN’s Monday night and NFL Network’s Thursday night cable games are required by contract to be carried on over-the-air, broadcast stations in the cities of the participating teams, subject to local blackout rules).
CBS will televise the American Football Conference package of Sunday afternoon games that it acquired in 1998. CBS first began televising NFL games in 1956 and carried the NFC package from 1970 through 1993.
FOX will continue with the National Football Conference package of Sunday afternoon games that it acquired in 1994.
NBC will again carry the Sunday Night Football package of primetime games that it acquired in 2006. NBC will continue to televise the Thursday night NFL season Kickoff game to open each season and will add the annual Thanksgiving primetime game starting in 2012.
Flexible scheduling – which ensures quality matchups in all NFL Sunday time slots and gives teams a chance to play their way onto primetime on NBC and into the late-afternoon 4:15 PM ET time slot on CBS and FOX – remains a viewer-friendly element of the network broadcast agreements. It will be expanded in 2014, including the ability to move games between CBS and FOX to bring regional games to wider audiences. Further details on enhanced flexible scheduling will be developed with the networks.
CBS, FOX and NBC will each televise three Super Bowls during the term of the agreements, continuing the current rotation. NBC will carry Super Bowl XLIX (49) in Glendale, Arizona in 2015, Super Bowl LII (52) in 2018 and Super Bowl LV (55) in 2021. CBS will broadcast Super Bowl L (50) in 2016, Super Bowl LIII (53) in 2019 and Super Bowl LVI (56) in 2022. FOX will televise Super Bowl LI (51) in 2017, Super Bowl LIV (54) in 2020 and Super Bowl LVII (57) in 2023.
“These agreements underscore the NFL’s unique commitment to broadcast television that no other sport has,” Commissioner Goodell said. “The agreements would not have been possible without our new 10-year labor agreement and the players deserve great credit. Long-term labor peace is allowing the NFL to continue to grow and the biggest beneficiaries are the players and fans.”
Commissioner Goodell said NFL fans should expect ongoing innovation from the NFL and its TV partners.
“CBS, FOX and NBC have served NFL fans with the highest-quality television production,” Commissioner Goodell said. “The networks will continue their outstanding coverage of the NFL while also helping to deliver more football to more fans using the best and most current technology.”
Earlier this season, the NFL and ESPN reached an eight-year extension to keep Monday Night Football on ESPN through the 2021 season.
NFL games are 23 of the 25 most-watched programs among all television shows this fall and draw more than twice as many average viewers as broadcast primetime shows.

[Ksyrup]

Nah, Collinsworth is too classy to tell Gumbel he's an idiot.

What? He's Gator for c[h]rissakes! Nothing classy about that.