Diversity of likes/dislikes is fascinating

[Anrhydeddu]

In looking at what folks here and elsewhere really likes and really dislikes, I find it fascinating as to liking/disliking polar opposites. This range from games to movies to tv shows to food to any other diverse areas of interest. This was brought home to me this week as I rented MIB2, which I thought was just okay, it had its moments. I then go on to the imdb messageboard and see one person (from Sweden no less) adamantly saying that this is the greatest movie of all time and that there is no better actor than Will Smith (he was truly serious about it).

Now I’m not debating the merits of MIB2 but it again struck me that if you absolutely love something, you will find at least one person here that will absolutely hate that something. And vice-versa. I just find it fascinating of how we all can have such extreme diversity in interests and likes/dislikes. That is healthy except when someone gets defensive and can’t believe that anyone else can love/hate something they hate/love.

There is a list or a game in here somewhere, I think. I would like to hear more of extremes likes/dislikes of games, movies, tv shows, food, etc. – just don’t make it personal.

I can start off with one I know will elicit polar opposite opinions: I think The Matrix is a very lousy movie.

[Anrhydeddu]

dola

Here's another one that came up here recently: it appears that Ramzavail can't believe that not everyone is thrilled about the upcoming CM4 release. And then we have soccer, which the extreme diverse opinions is a given.

[cthomer5000]

Everytime I watch a really horrible band perform, between trying to keep my ears from bleeding, I think "This is someone's absolute favorite band."

the world is an interesting place.

[Swaggs]

No one plays Will Smith better than Will Smith.

[Anrhydeddu]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
Everytime I watch a really horrible band perform, between trying to keep my ears from bleeding, I think "This is someone's absolute favorite band."

the world is an interesting place.

Exactly!

[henry296]

I think another broader topic that is similar to soccer is Country Music.

Todd

[HornedFrog Purple]

Not sure if this is what youre looking for. I like:

Boring, defensive dominated 3-0 football games.

The DH.

A.I. the movie

Dont like:

Domes.

Backdraft the movie. Well it was ok just Hollywooded to death.

Lack of a strike zone.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
Everytime I watch a really horrible band perform, between trying to keep my ears from bleeding, I think "This is someone's absolute favorite band."

I was thinking that exact same thing as I painfully sat through a performance by the band Alabama on one of those New Years' Eve shows. I don't think I had ever actually heard them before, and after that moment, I was thankful for that fact.

We had this discussion once before about country music in general, but I don't like it because I can't relate to the songs about workin' hard for a living, boozin', and playin' pool and drinkin' beer, and I don't like overly-sentimental patriotic crap. That doesn't leave much else to listen to.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Oh my biggest dislike:

Sports talk radio-stations that dont talk about sports for more than 13 seconds an hour. :)

[Anrhydeddu]

Frog, interesting list and I wonder how extreme you are with those (or how someone can take an extreme opposite view)? I'm sure there are those that think every single sport should be played in a dome (I haven't heard anyone say that, so that would be interesting to find). You and I have opposite tastes on QB and football games types but I do think we can find some common ground. I just think most folks (not all) are willing to be less extreme.

cthomer: You have an example of a band?

[JeeberD]

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
Oh my biggest dislike:

Sports talk radio-stations that dont talk about sports for more than 13 seconds an hour. :)

cough The Ticket cough

[HornedFrog Purple]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
Frog, interesting list and I wonder how extreme you are with those (or how someone can take an extreme opposite view)? I'm sure there are those that think every single sport should be played in a dome (I haven't heard anyone say that, so that would be interesting to find). You and I have opposite tastes on QB and football games types but I do think we can find some common ground. I just think most folks (not all) are willing to be less extreme.

I think we did the QB issue to death. :)

There are a lot of people that are anti-DH. I like it because I would rather see an over the hill hitter at the plate instead of a typical pitcher. I dont buy into the NL is more strategy based than the AL.

The type of football game I would never take someone to task over but I am guessing a majority like open offensive games.

JeeberD ding ding! The only guy I will listen to on that station is Norm Hitzges and most Ticketheads think he is boring.

[rkmsuf]

The movie that popped into my head was LA Confidential. Lots of people loved that movie...I thought it was a big pile of donkey dung...

[Kodos]

Pulp Fiction. Many seem to think it is the best ever. I thought it was utter crap.

[SplitPersonality1]

For me it's Austin Powers.

My brother-in-law goes on and on about the first two films - even he thought the third one stunk - but I just don't think that they are that funny.

[Anrhydeddu]

Kodos, I feel the same way about Pulp Fiction. I would also add Bogart and any of his movies.

[wade moore]

Likes:

Country Music
Acapella Music
Dude Where's My Car?
Country Line Dancing

Dislikes:
Pulp Fiction (yay Kodos)
The recent version of Romeo and Juliet.

[scooper]

A couple dislikes of mine that tend to be very popular:

I don't like Adam Sandler much. I have not hated all of his movies, but I didn't find him funny on SNL. I think most of his characters are exactly the same and not that amusing to me.

I also don't like Dave Matthews Band. People love them. I'll agree that they are talented musicians but his voice to me is fingernails on a chalkboard.

As for a like: I didn't love it, did not pay to see it in a theater, but I once sat down and watched the movie Waterworld on TV, just to see what the stink was. I sat through the entire thing and enjoyed it.

By the way, I love 3-0 defensive struggle football games.

[AnalBumCover]

Strange, I initially disliked Pulp Fiction, then for some odd reason, it grew on me...and I began to really like the movie. Probably because some of my close friends kept on raving over it. Talk about peer influence.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by wade moore
Likes:
Dude Where's My Car?

Ha! This one would appear to be purely generational:

Likes:

Strange Brew


Dislikes:

Dude Where's My Car

[jerem77]

I can't stand DMB. I took my fiance to a concert because she likes his music. I felt like I was listening to the same song for 3 hours, interupted only by him mumbling into the microphone.

[Ksyrup]

I Intensely Dislike:

Grateful (He's) Dead
Phish
Widespread Panic
Any other "jam" bands

But Like:

Dream Theater
Queensryche (way back when)
Shadow Gallery
Fates Warning
Spock's Beard
Porcupine Tree
Most rock/metal prog groups

[scooper]

Ksyrup,

One jam band I like that is usually classified more as a Skynard like southern rock band is the Allman Brothers. As for the others, I agree.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Did anyone like Battlefield Earth? I think that was the worst movie I have ever seen.

The only saving grace of Pulp Fiction was the soundtrack.

[Leonidas]

My wife and I cannot figure out how "Signs" got so much critical acclaim and box office success. C'mon, aliens capable of interstellar travel can't figure out how to break through a friggin door held up by 2x4's?

[JeeberD]

And they don't realize that the planet they're invading is made up of 2/3 of a substance that's toxic to them???

[Anrhydeddu]

Did anyone like Battlefield Earth? I think that was the worst movie I have ever seen.

That would be interesting. I have heard that BE will be on most critics (and fans?) worst movie of all time list. I am very sure that somewhere out there, someone thinks BE is the single greatest movie of all time. Fascinating.

[scooper]

I never even gave Battlefield Earth chance. I just couldn't get past John Travolta looking like Rob Zombie.

[rkmsuf]

That would be interesting. I have heard that BE will be on most critics (and fans?) worst movie of all time list. I am very sure that somewhere out there, someone thinks BE is the single greatest movie of all time. Fascinating.

That person wouldn't be named Travolta or Hubbard would they?

[Senator]

Enuff Z Nuff is the greatest band of all time - (next to the Beatles)


Beat that.

[HornedFrog Purple]

I didnt see it when it came out and I had read some reviews which said it was downright awful. Sometimes even after I read them I will watch it myself and disagree with them or at least find something that I didnt think was that bad (this was the case with A.I.) So I rented it on DVD and honestly in my opinion, there is nothing good about Battlefield Earth. Its absolutely horrible, a complete waste of film.

[QuikSand]

LOVE:

"real" country music (Hank Williams, good Johnny Cash, that's about it)
Pulp Fiction
Radiohead
good talk radio (I'm the judge)
vanilla
pistachios
Tim Russert
Charlize Theron

HATE:

"new" country music
Forrest Gump
most radio
most talk radio
three-button suits
power ties
non sequiturs
The Sixth Sense

[scooper]

Originally posted by Senator
Enuff Z Nuff is the greatest band of all time - (next to the Beatles)


Beat that.

I saw Fly High Michelle on VH1 classic the other day. I remembered that I really liked that band.

[wade moore]

Originally posted by QuikSand
LOVE:

"real" country music (Hank Williams, good Johnny Cash, that's about it)
Pulp Fiction
Radiohead
good talk radio (I'm the judge)
vanilla
pistachios
Tim Russert
Charlize Theron

HATE:

"new" country music
Forrest Gump
most radio
most talk radio
three-button suits
power ties
non sequiturs
The Sixth Sense

I don't 100% agree with your country music dislike as I like the likes of george straight, Clint Black, etc. as that is what I grew up with -- but I hate the "poppy" country that is coming out now...

[Senator]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw Fly High Michelle on VH1 classic the other day. I remembered that I really liked that band.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



They have made 10 more CD's after that one. Can you believe that? On CD #11.

[Anrhydeddu]

three-button suits
power ties


But you still have to wear them? I also hate suits and ties, never wore a suit in my life and perhaps the primary reason I don't live on the East Coast. :)

[QuikSand]

I certainly wear suits and ties, but I refuse to get suckered into wearing an absurd black three-button double-breates suit with a bold yellow power tie. That's just idiotic.

Robert Hall, 1957. Never goes out of style. Dark blue suit, crisp white shirt, reasonable tie, conservative black shoes, and a tan overcoat. That and a cell phone, and I'm ready for business.

[Anrhydeddu]

Originally posted by QuikSand
I certainly wear suits and ties, but I refuse to get suckered into wearing an absurd black three-button double-breates suit with a bold yellow power tie. That's just idiotic.

Robert Hall, 1957. Never goes out of style. Dark blue suit, crisp white shirt, reasonable tie, conservative black shoes, and a tan overcoat. That and a cell phone, and I'm ready for business.

And to think, you used to be my hero. :D

Jeans, Rockports and Polo Shirts are about as formal as I get, esp. for work.

Back on the subject of extreme opposites, I remember some discussions a while back about female celebrities and who are the beautiful ones. I recall taking the opposite view in thinking that Nicole Kidman, Reese Witherspoon and some other popular chick are major league ugly (for a celebrity).

[Aylmar]

Wade --

IMO, I wouldn't classify George Strait as "new" country. He's been around well over twenty years. I've got to admit, though, I like his older "country swing" music (Fireman, Ocean Front Property, etc.) more than I do his newer stuff...

[scooper]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu


Back on the subject of extreme opposites, I remember some discussions a while back about female celebrities and who are the beautiful ones. I recall taking the opposite view in thinking that Nicole Kidman, Reese Witherspoon and some other popular chick are major league ugly (for a celebrity).

Good one: Julia Roberts. Ugly.

[Kevin]

Dislikes:
Most movies with special effects. (good special effects are usually used to cover a weak plot)
Rap
Hip Hop
Techno Pop
Bigots


Likes:
Rock n Roll
Blues
Fast paced novels
Julia Roberts
Golf
Curling
Monty Python movies

[Anrhydeddu]

Good one: Julia Roberts. Ugly.

THAT"S IT! Thanks for the recall.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by rkmsuf
That person wouldn't be named Travolta or Hubbard would they?

Hubbard's writing style just cannot possbily translate to film. It was a huge mistake tryint to make it.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Senator
Enuff Z Nuff is the greatest band of all time - (next to the Beatles)


Beat that.

In theory, this is a band I should love, but I don't own a single CD. And I think I sold the two I had. I'm a huge Beatles fan, love King's X and other Beatlesque harmonies bands, power pop, etc., but just never got into EZN. Odd.

[Ksyrup]

This subject reminded me of a statement on the website of a fascinating guy who writes a weekly music review column on his own site called the War Against Silence (http://www.furia.com/twas/) .

The guy is an amazing writer, often blending his reviews with observations about the world, humanity, etc. He has diverse tastes, so you could probably pick a band you like and search his back log of reviews and find one to read.

Anyway, at the bottom of the front page of his site, he has a statement about what he is "for" and what he is "against" that I've always thought was humorous and interesting:

"glenn mcdonald lives in Cambridge, Massachusetts, with four inert platypi, three guitars, eleven remote controls and twenty-eight copies of the Big Country song "Wonderland". He is against microwave ovens, unchecked market economies, films about mobsters or prostitutes with hearts of gold, video games, infidelity and wallpaper, but for secret passages, dictionaries, b-sides, basing driving habits on moral imperatives, listening to pop songs and soccer broadcasts in other languages, shaved heads, semicolons, bread you slice yourself and OS X. Hopelessly obscure music trivia has crowded out of his mind one essential detail of every significant bit of human knowledge he has ever learned."

[Fritz]

I just hate marmel.

[dawgfan]

Being in the 3D animation business and still relatively young (33), I find myself surrounded by people that loved the Matrix and can't wait for the next 2 sequals. Personally, I thought it was totally overblown. Yes, there were a lot of cool effects, and I appreciated those. But even the interesting camera shots I thought got a little old by the end of the movie - creative camera shots for the sake of showing off rather than improving the quality of the story. And in my opinion, the story needed all the help it could get - a horribly contrived, bad comic-book plot that took itself extremely seriously.

I also have never understood the praise for M Night Shyamalan. I thought Sixth Sense was OK, but not all that. Unbreakable was utter crap, and I haven't been willing to see Signs yet. Here's another case of a guy who takes himself and his films waaaay too seriously. Unbreakable in particular - another silly comic-book plot, which would've been fine except that it was played as this deadly serious, important story.

Count me in the camp that thinks Pulp Fiction was brilliant. I like everything Tarantino has directed, as well as True Romance which he wrote and Tony Scott directed (Tony's finest moment in a career of mediocrity).

Some other films I think are brilliant: Blade Runner, Apocolypse Now, Alien, most of Stanley Kubrick, most of Martin Scorcese, the first 2 Godfather films, the original Star Wars trilogy, the Indiana Jones trilogy, the Lord of the Rings so far, Memento, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead (perhaps my favorite), the Monty Python movies, most of Hitchcock's classics (Vertigo, Rear Window, the Trouble with Harry), Lone Star, Raising Arizona, Animal House, Caddyshack, A Fish Called Wanda. And I'm sure I've left off another 50 or so I'd love to have in my DVD collection.

I'm with Quik on country music - the old, classic stuff is worth listening to (Hank Williams, Johnnie Cash) but the "new" country is garbage.

I'm into all kinds of music:
- alternative/expermimental stuff like Radiohead, Flaming Lips, Bjork, P.J. Harvey;
- progressive metal like Tool and King Crimson;
- electronica and ambient like Aphex Twin, Moby, Chemical Brothers, Crystal Method, Amon Tobin, DJ Shadow, Brian Eno;
- the "Seattle scene" and similar bands like Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Audioslave, Smashing Pumpkins, Janes Addiction;
- classic rock like the Who, the Beatles, the Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, David Bowie, Roxy Music;
- current stars like U2, REM, Red Hot Chilli Peppers;
- jam bands like The Grateful Dead, the Allman Bros., the Dave Matthews Band, Phish;
- certain catchy hip-hop like Eminem, Public Enemy, Nelly, Digital Underground;
- most jazz, including Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Thelonious Monk, Weather Report;
- classic blues like Willie Dixon, Howlin' Wolf, Muddy Waters

I think the new Austin Cooper Minis are great, as are most of the retro designs, including the Beetle and the Jaguars, though I'm not entirely sold on the new Thunderbird; the new A4's are growing on me though I prefer the 99-02 S4's; I think the current 3-series BMW's may be the pinnacle of BMW design, though I don't like the direction the company is going in with the new 7-series; I love the classic Mustangs, and I hope the concept designs for the new Mustang are produced; I think the recent Mercedes' designs are impressively aggressive; I think Lexus has spies in the Mercedes design facilities so they can copy whatever Mercedes does.

I like a variety of women, my current faves being Jennifer Connolly, Cameron Diaz, Salma Hayek, Halle Berry, Natalie Portman, Uma Thurman, Winona Ryder and Heidi Klum.

[dawgfan]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
I recall taking the opposite view in thinking that Nicole Kidman, Reese Witherspoon and some other popular chick are major league ugly (for a celebrity).

I was never a big Nicole Kidman fan until recently - she's starting looking a lot better to me, especially after Moulin Rouge.

[rkmsuf]

In defense of the Matrix it was never billed an artistic masterpiece. It did revolutionize special effects and should be at least given credit for that.

I liked it...

Since you mentioned Kubrick can you explain any appeal The Clockwork Orange has?

[Craptacular]

Originally posted by dawgfan

I think the new Austin Cooper Minis are great, as are most of the retro designs, including the Beetle and the Jaguars,


Ack, puke, blah! The PT Loser is another design that should go back to the (s)crap heap.

[scooper]

Originally posted by Craptacular
Ack, puke, blah! The PT Loser is another design that should go back to the (s)crap heap.

You're going to love the new Honda. I think it's the element. Looks like an old surf wagon.

[dawgfan]

Originally posted by rkmsuf
In defense of the Matrix it was never billed an artistic masterpiece. It did revolutionize special effects and should be at least given credit for that.

I liked it...

Since you mentioned Kubrick can you explain any appeal The Clockwork Orange has?

I don't think anyone's ever claimed the Matrix was an artistic masterpiece, but the clamor and attention paid to the movie was out of proportion with it's inherent artistic worth IMO. Part of this was likely in response to the disappointment many had with the first Star Wars prequel which was released around the same time.

As for A Clockwork Orange, it was a pretty faithful adaptation of the book, which was one of many so-called future negative-utopia books, along with 1984, Farenheit 451 and others. It's was (and still is) a pretty startling look at a possible future for our society, the nature of violence, and governmental responsibility in trying to legislate morality. The performances were right-on as it was Malcolm McDowell's finest hour, and the trademark Kubrick cinematography was in full-bloom, along with his effective use of soundtrack music (what was at the time a very modern, electronic update of Beethoven's music inlcuding much of his 9th Symphony). It's certainly a disquieting film, and not an easy thing to digest, but I think it carries a ton of artistic value and meaty subject matter.

[SplitPersonality1]

Originally posted by rkmsuf
Since you mentioned Kubrick can you explain any appeal The Clockwork Orange has?

Wow.

When I first read rkmsuf's quote, I was in utter shock. "How can anyone see this movie and not recognize it's genius." said the voice in my head.

This statement right here just proves the point AnyBucc was making at the start of this thread.

Fascinating indeed.

[rkmsuf]

I liked dawgfan's reasoning better as a voice inside my head was in utter shock at splits text.

I'm no expert on The Clockwork Orange but it seems the "intelligent" and "informed" movie goers flock to defense of this film the way the "lemmings" and "doufusses" flock to the defense of the Matrix.

Interesting.

[Senator]

I never liked tomatoes but I love ketchup.

[Anrhydeddu]

I'll throw out a few extreme likes/dislikes:

Dislikes:

Literati books
Independent movies (Indies)
Progressive architecture
Hot weather

Likes:

Nature/Ambient music (or what my brother calls "Rainy Tuesday Afternoon By A Babbling Brook" music)
Cooking shows
Cold weather
The Mummy

[Anrhydeddu]

Originally posted by SplitPersonality1
Wow.

When I first read rkmsuf's quote, I was in utter shock. "How can anyone see this movie and not recognize it's genius." said the voice in my head.

This statement right here just proves the point AnyBucc was making at the start of this thread.

Fascinating indeed.

You got it!

Count me as another who thinks all of Kubrick's movies are insanely vulgar, immoral and wholey unwatchable, with no redeeming value whatsover. At least Bogart's movies can have some entertainment value to them. :)

[Ksyrup]

I've always recognized my limitations when it comes to critiquing movies. I look at movies in the same casual way that many people listen to music. Except I love music, while movies are just "there" for me. Clockwork Orange has absolutely no appeal to me, because I don't/can't see the things that make it such a masterpiece. With movies, I jsut like what I like, and pass on the rest without much thought involved.

In the same way, I know that I might as well be talking to a wall when I try to explain the brilliance of a certain 3-piece band from Katy, TX to someone who thinks O-Town has a long career ahead of them.

[dawgfan]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
Likes:

Nature/Ambient music (or what my brother calls "Rainy Tuesday Afternoon By A Babbling Brook" music)

Have you tried any of the original ambient music from Brian Eno? If not, I highly recommend Music For Airports, Apollo and The Pearl, a collaboration with pianist Harold Budd.

[SplitPersonality1]

rkmsuf - My post wasn't meant to explain the movie, it was just a quick comment about the first thing I thought of when I read your post. Dawgfan does do a good job of explaining why many people enjoy the movie, myself included.

AnyDayNow - I actually agree with you on the bulk of Kubrick's films. Clockwork is the only one that I have ever liked.

Then again, I'm one of seven people on the planet that actually liked the movie "Howard the Duck". So much for my credibilty when it comes to movies. :)

[rkmsuf]

Kubrick does nothing for me but some folks love his work.

I'll give you 2001, The Shining and Sparticus...maybe Full Metal Jacket.

Eyes Wide Shut and Clockwork were lost on me and I can't say I've really watched much of Dr. Stragelove.

To each his own...

[dawgfan]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
You got it!

Count me as another who thinks all of Kubrick's movies are insanely vulgar, immoral and wholey unwatchable, with no redeeming value whatsover. At least Bogart's movies can have some entertainment value to them. :)

All of them? Have you seen 2001 or Dr. Strangelove? I don't think there's anything insanely vulgar or immoral about either of those films. You could argue wholey unwatchable.

I can see the vulgarity/immorality criticisms for A Clockwork Orange in particular, with elements of that in The Shining, Full Metal Jacket and Eyes Wide Shut, though I don't agree with them.

[Anrhydeddu]

dawgfan: Thanks, I obviously know of those but have not listened to them since they were before I got into this genre. I have over 250 CDs that fall into this category with only a handful that I truly love. It is so hard to find the exact sound, mood and ensemble that I am after.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Boy it seems we finally found a roadblock. Kubrick/Anti-Kubrick

Kubrick did a complete 180 after 2001 with A Clockwork Orange.

I like Kubrick films a lot. He had a way of filming presentation that I thought was cool. I like Spike Lee and Oliver Stone films in the same way although I really thought "blah" about Any Given Sunday.

Of course there are people who dont like any of the above. :)

[TroyF]

Horned, Anrh,

This is an interesting topic. It's especially funny when you get two people who generally agree on most topics that take the opposite viewpoints.

An example of this is Horned and I. We agree on most things (outside of Quincy Carter maybe) :) :) Yet I look at his list of likes and one thing jumps out at me. . . I hate AI. I think it may be the worst movie I've ever seen. It's the only movie I've ever seriously considered walking out of the theatre on.

I also like Creed (and did long before they became popular), which drives many people up the wall.

To each his/her own :)

TroyF

[Anrhydeddu]

Ah, Full Metal Jacket. Forgot he did that so I take back saying "all" of Kubrick's movies. Also, my rant list should have said "or" since 2001 certainly falls into the wholey unwatchable category. Sorry.

Then again, I'm one of seven people on the planet that actually liked the movie "Howard the Duck". So much for my credibilty when it comes to movies.

That was funny to read. :)

[HornedFrog Purple]

Hehe Troy. My only contention with the Q-Kid was give him some stability in his coaching and personnel before they pulled the rug out under him which I still contend they never did give him a reasonable chance to succeed. Give him a legitimate chance to fail.

As for AI... see? :)

[SplitPersonality1]

ARdiddydoo - Glad you found it funny. I've taken abuse for admitting that for years now. :D

A good friend and I are pretty big movie buffs and we decided to make a list of our favorite 100 movies, much like the AFI did a number of years ago.

We both had movies that you would expect on such a list: Casablanca, The Godfather, etc., but when he saw Howard the Duck on my list, he just looked at me and shook his head. He still brings it up in conversation every now and then.

I keep telling him that the key word is favorite movies, not the ones with the best plot or best acting. Oh well, it makes people laugh. :D

[Anrhydeddu]

not the ones with the best plot or best acting

You know, I think you hit on something. In my anti-snobbery viewpoint, I don't believe any movie, book or music can be considered "good" or "great" or "genius" if you don't like it. People talk about Kubrick's genius or Eco's brilliance but I don't believe it (for the most part). If they are so good, how come I (or you or others) don't like it? Genius is only in the eye of the beholder, imo.

[Cowtown]

I was thinking that exact same thing as I painfully sat through a performance by the band Alabama on one of those New Years' Eve shows. I don't think I had ever actually heard them before, and after that moment, I was thankful for that fact.

That is amazing. Those guys have almost FIFTY number one songs. I think George Strait is the only other artist even close to that.

[mckerney]

Originally posted by rkmsuf
I'll give you 2001, The Shining and Sparticus...maybe Full Metal Jacket.

2001 was a terrible and boring movie. I had to watch it for school and the first time I tried I feel asleep half an hour into it. I don't know how I sat through that piece of crap.

[Aylmar]

Actually, FYI, Conway Twitty had 55 #1 records.

http://www.artistdirect.com/showcase//country/ctwitty.html

[vtbub]

Oh to become musically aware during the disco era.

Love the Bee Gees

Think that Ben and Jerry's is highly overrated.

Can't stand country, love jazz

[kcchief19]

I didn't know anyone in this day and age remembered Robert Hall. But if anyone else did, I should have known it would be QS.

You beat me to the punch on The Sixth Sense. I have yet to met anyone who does not think me an idiot for not putting this on the best movies ever made list. I went into the movie knowing that there was a surprise ending (imagine -- a movie with a surprise!) but I had no idea what it was. 5 seconds into the movie, I see Bruce Willis get killed. I instantly assumed that the twist was something other than that since WE JUST SAW HIM KILLED! PEOPLE DO NOT RECOVER QUICKLY FROM GUNSHOTS TO THE HEART! I then spent 2 1/2 hours getting hit over the head with blatantly obvious "clues." This movie had all the mystery, twists and suprises of an Encylopedia Brown book.

People then become indignant with me when I tell them that they must be an idiot not to see that one coming. I have no idea why. :)

I also hate Keanu Reaves. This guy acts like a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest. I have never seen The Matrix because there is no way that I could possibly sit through another one of his movies without jabbing an ice pick through my ear.

[QuikSand]

Wow. Just to drop a few more thoughts on these lines...

Stanley Kubrick, genius. Gets my vote. I even give him a partial "A" for Eyes Wide Shut, which I thought was very compelling save the bizarre "party" scenes. But I have trouble finding room for wholesale denigration of most of his other movies. Mayeb you find them upsetting, or "immoral" (I'm not sure what that means exactly), or probably disturbing... but to suggest that his are not well-made and well-conceived films strikes me as a tough position to defend.

AI - dreadful movie. I, too, almost felt genuine pain at that movie - I more than disliked it. I hated it intensely, and felt betrayed by it. (Too bad, too... the concept held an awful lot of promise) But I frequently feel this way with Speilberg films, and now it seems that Ron Howard is taking his place beside him... I found A Beautiful Mind to be manipulative and dishonest, despite being pretty well-made.

Someone else mentioned Public Enemy. I know this stuff wasn't exactly meant for me, but that's really well-conceived material. I really, really like Fear of a Black Planet - that one makes my desert island list.

However, this all leads into a rant for me. On A's point from above:

You know, I think you hit on something. In my anti-snobbery viewpoint, I don't believe any movie, book or music can be considered "good" or "great" or "genius" if you don't like it. People talk about Kubrick's genius or Eco's brilliance but I don't believe it (for the most part). If they are so good, how come I (or you or others) don't like it? Genius is only in the eye of the beholder, imo.

I think this is a slippery slope argument. Do we discount true genius because someone fails to understand it? To recognize it? To appreicate it? Is there any accountability for the recipient?

If we bring an imbecile, I.Q of 55, to the Sistine Chapel (my best attempt at a fairly unassailable work of genius) and he says "so what" does that mean that Michelangelo's work is no better or different than what I could flip onto a canvas in a half hour with my temperas? I certainly don't want to go that far.... but that's an inevitable result of that statement, I think.

And I realize this tends toward the classist, the arrogance of the elite. But truly - if someone fails to comprehend the essential elemants of composition, of light, of presentation-- of what value are their views in matters of aesthetics, where it is exactly these elements that constitute the foundation? Why not, then, defer to the judgment of a child, or a moron, or a potted plant?

If Anhrydeddu walks into a museum and sees works of Barnett Newman, and mutters "any nine year old could have painted that" (as I strongly suspect that he would) - does that necessarily invalidate the value of the work? Or is this somehow a function of numbers... if 100 experts agree, then that trumps the millions of "common men" who are too unwashed to be of value? I don't know.

What I do know is to dismiss any objective measure of value based on individual opinions is dangerous business.

Kubrick was a genius. Eco is brilliant. Not everyone must agree for it to be so. Not even everyone who shares the "proper foundation" for making judgment need agree.

[Karim]

Popular movies where I can't understand the appeal:

Chinatown
A Clockwork Orange
Austin Powers
Back to the Future
Pulp Fiction
The Fourth of July
Natural Born Killers
American Beauty
any Star Wars (I like them, just don't understand the massive following)

Games I couldn't get into:

OOTP4
EU2
Jagged Alliance 2


Sports I can't stand:

- any basketball
- any auto racing


Biggest relevant pet peeve:

Anyone who dismisses hockey as not a "major" or "real" sport.

[Craptacular]

Originally posted by Senator
I never liked tomatoes but I love ketchup.

Same here.

I also love cucumbers, but hate pickles.
I like Nacho Cheese Doritos, Cheetos, Combos, etc., but hate cheese.
I love beer bread, beer brats, and beer fries, but hate beer.

[Anrhydeddu]

QS, you remember that we discussed that exact same premise a couple of years ago. I threw that out, not fully embracing anti-snobbery, but to perhaps add more fuel to the fire.

In response, I think it does become more of a philosophical debate - of what constitutes true genius? By what standard do we measure such a thing? Surely there have to be a standard but it cannot be objective because it is the same human that can determine genius that also applies subjectivity of love/hate of such a work. I agree that it is a slippery slope and a position that I cannot articulate very well. But in the end, I tend to lean towards "eye of the beholder" more than an elitist telling me what I should feel about a piece of work.

[HornedFrog Purple]

I think your point would be art is in a grey area, not that snobbery determines genius.

For instance, is Kasparov a chess genius? I think you would have a very difficult time finding anyone who would disagree assuming they even know what chess is.

In Kubrick's case for example it depends. The least an anti-Kubrick person could say is that he was innovative and creative even if they dont like any of his work. Does that mean he is genius? I do believe innovation and creativity is at least a part of what would constitute genius.

[oykib]

Originally posted by rkmsuf
In defense of the Matrix it was never billed an artistic masterpiece. It did revolutionize special effects and should be at least given credit for that.

I liked it...


Actually, half the shots in 'The Matrix' were ripped off from 'Blade'.

[Anrhydeddu]

Only to a certain extent, Frog. I see too many examples of innovation/creativeness just for the sake of being "daring" and that it fails in its function (I'm talking more in product design and architecture). It is my perception that the genius label is applied to too many "artists" whose goal is to produce out of spite, for shock value and personal agendas.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Well I see your point, but I would assume the ultimate goal of any artist for personal agenda is to make money. But lets look at some different ones.

Orson Welles. He produced the (in)famous War of the Worlds broadcast in 1939 which produced actual widespread panic throughout the country only to sign off with Happy Halloween.... Then he turned around and directed and starred in Citizen Kane which at the time was a masterpiece. Why? The painstaking way he filmed that entire movie. He would do retake after retake until he got what he wanted. This was unheard of at the time in Hollywood because he grossly went over budget.

In Kubrick's case he produced 2001 which is still the most "realistic" approach to outer space ever made. The funny thing is he really had no idea what the moon would look like, what space would actually be like. It was all in his mind and from speculation.

Just for fun, Bill Walsh. Was the offense he designed innovative and creative at the time? I would say yes.

Kurt Cobain. I dont consider him a genius and more of the category of shock value and personal agenda. But that is my own personal opinion.

Its all gray. :)

[mckerney]

Originally posted by kcchief19
You beat me to the punch on The Sixth Sense. I have yet to met anyone who does not think me an idiot for not putting this on the best movies ever made list. I went into the movie knowing that there was a surprise ending (imagine -- a movie with a surprise!) but I had no idea what it was. 5 seconds into the movie, I see Bruce Willis get killed. I instantly assumed that the twist was something other than that since WE JUST SAW HIM KILLED! PEOPLE DO NOT RECOVER QUICKLY FROM GUNSHOTS TO THE HEART! I then spent 2 1/2 hours getting hit over the head with blatantly obvious "clues." This movie had all the mystery, twists and suprises of an Encylopedia Brown book.

People then become indignant with me when I tell them that they must be an idiot not to see that one coming. I have no idea why. :)


I guessed the ending of Sixth Sense from the previews

[lynchjm24]

Dislikes:
Skorts
Fat chicks in Capri pants.

I dare someone to disagree with that :).

[mrushh]

Dislikes:

Fat Chicks....PERIOD (I know that isn't politically correct, but that's the way it goes, sometimes. Get ye to a nunnery, errrr...to a gym.)

[astralhaze]

I support all Stanley Kubrick movies.

[Scholes]

Likes:
Movies:
Rushmore (This and Caddyshack are the two greatest movies ever)
The Royal Tenenbaums
Here's one that I've caught heat for... Zoolander
High Fidelity
The Usual Suspects

Music
Independent Hip-Hop (Illogic, Atmosphere, Sage Francis, etc.)
Radiohead
Incubus
George Michael
Sade
Acappella Music

Books (Authors)
Tom Robbins
Nick Hornby
Ernest Hemingway
F. Scott Fitzgerald

Sports:
Soccer
Hockey, esp. College Hockey
Baseball

Women
Short dark hair
Skin
Lips



Dislikes:
Science Fiction movies or books

NASCAR

Basketball of anykind

Loud people

Women w/ long, blond hair (I don't dislike them, but I guess they're not my type)

Tom Clancy

Country Music

Nelly, Ja Rule, rap you hear on Top 40 radio

Rene Russo

Cars (as well as confederate flags, loud "pipes", huge sound systems, calvin peeing on anyone, etc.)

Cell Phones

That is all.

[astralhaze]

Turn Offs:

Rude people
Smoking
Arrogant people

Turn Ons:

Romantic walks on the beach
Intelligence
Real men

[PineTar]

Off the beaten path items that would make my 'favorites' list:

Movie: Rollerball (1975)

Music: Dread Zeppelin

TV Series: Quincy

Crayola Crayon: copper

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by PineTar
Off the beaten path items that would make my 'favorites' list:


Wow... I'd join you on two out of four. Not too bad, given the level of obscurity.

[Anrhydeddu]

Been given this some more thought and I'm still stuck on something. From your own personal viewpoint, wouldn't you appreciate something you like better than something you don't like - regardless of quality? While any art form has technique that can be noted, shouldn't the emotion or appreciation of the final results be the ultimate judge?

I thought about this in context of my comparison of FOF4 and OOTP4. I like OOTP4 despite its flaw in its execution but I do not like FOF4 despite its relative lack of flaws in its execution. Therefore, I cannot truthfully say that FOF4 is a better product. A product (game, movie, music, book, painting, architecture, etc.) cannot be better if you don't like it when compared to a similar product that you do like because the product you do like obviously did something good or right that makes you like it better. If that makes any sense.