Judge orders change in money format for blind people

[WVUFAN]

Link:

hxxp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,232503,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,232503,00.html)

Judge Orders Treasury Department to Make Paper Money Recognizable to Blind People

WASHINGTON — American paper money represents an unfair impediment to the blind, and the Treasury Department must come up with new U.S. currency to help the visually impaired use cash, a federal judge ruled Tuesday.

U.S. District Judge James Robertson said keeping all U.S. currency the same size and texture violates the Rehabilitation Act, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in government programs.

"Of the more than 180 countries that issue paper currency, only the United States prints bills that are identical in size and color in all their denominations," Robertson wrote in his ruling (http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/opinions/2006/Robertson/2002-CV-0864~12:56:1~11-28-2006-a.pdf). "More than 100 of the other issuers vary their bills in size according to denomination, and every other issuer includes at least some features that help the visually impaired."
Day Al-Mohamed, director of advocacy and government affairs at the American Council of the Blind (http://www.acb.org/), said that most of the world's currency is distinguished by color, size, perforations or tactile symbols. The Euro, for instance, can be determined by the length of the bill — the higher the denomination the longer the bill.

"Saudi Arabia has money that varies in size based on denomination," she said. "If so many other countries can do it, why not the greatest country in the world?"

"It's exciting from our perspective. It's an area that doesn't get a lot of attention. I give ACB a lot of credit for hanging in there," said Andrew Imperato, president and CEO of the American Association of People with Disabilities (http://www.aapd-dc.org/). "Hopefully it's just going to make blind people able to live more independently."

But John Paré, director of public relations for the National Federation of the Blind (http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Default.asp), the nation's largest organization representing blind people, said identifying the money is hardly the most difficult obstacle for the blind to overcome.

"The focus for improving the lives of blind Americans needs to be put on earning money not figuring out how to identify money," he said. "Over 70 percent of blind Americans are under-employed or unemployed and this is what needs to be addressed.

"It really is distracting to have this lawsuit," he said, since assistance should concentrate on people "who don't have the money in the first place."

Blindness is measured as 20/2,200 or worse vision, according to Al-Mohamed, who said many more people with still limited sight have better vision than that.

About 7 million Americans are blind or visually impaired, and the numbers are expected to increase by 4 million by 2015 as baby boomers age, Al-Mohamed said. The majority of people with vision loss problems get them after age 45, she said.

For many blind, working with currency often relies on the "kindness of strangers," Al-Mohamed said.

Paré and Al-Mohamed agree that current tricks help the blind manage their cash, for instance folding different size denominations different ways and leaving one dollar bills crumpled.

"There are techniques for identifying currency that blind people utilize today that work reasonably well," Pare said. "Every single organization that deals with teaching blind people how to deal with currency teaches how to do that."

But Al-Mohamed said that blind people often resort to using note-tellers, portable readers that can cost $300 per machine. Often, they don't work when bills have been folded or crumpled and frequently it's inconvenient to use in a busy store, she said.

"The way a lot of people distinguish bills now is they rely on a cashier to tell them what bills are and fold them different ways, but that's kind of a vulnerable situation," Imparato added.

In the lawsuit, which has been in the court system for four years, government attorneys argued that forcing the Treasury Department to change the size of the bills or add texture would make it harder to prevent counterfeiting. Robertson was not swayed.

"The fact that each of these features is currently used in other currencies suggests that, at least on the face of things, such accommodations are reasonable," he wrote.

"I'm sure there were concerns around the cost of coming out with all these new bills (to prevent counterfeiting)," Imparato said. "When you're already going through the cost of the new design, I don't think it would cost a lot more to build in accessibility."

He acknowledged that many Americans may not want to make the change to different sized currency. Several attempts to move U.S. currency to a dollar coin have failed in the past, though the Treasury Department announced last week that it is going to give it another go with new coins struck with images of the deceased presidents.

"The main argument in favor of not doing that is tradition, and tradition and accessibility do not always mix," Imparato said.

Robertson wouldn't say how Treasury must do it, but he gave the government agency 10 days to start working on new bills that the blind can tell apart.

The Treasury Department refused to comment on the case, saying that it's still pending. Paré said that his organization wasn't involved in the lawsuit, and he can't speak for the Treasury Department, but he did "get the sense that it was going to be appealed."

Al-Mohamed said she expects members of her organization will have a sit-down soon with Treasury officials to consider changes to be made. She said the group is not overly particular about which changes are offered as long as they are helpful and can be done in a reasonable amount of time. She said already several of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing's presses are set up to deal with specific denominations.

"I don't think it quite matters as long as it allows for identification without sight," she said of any proposed changes. "Sooner is better" but it "depends on the changes being used."

ACB is not going to demand of Treasury "wild and crazy changes, you have to do it now," she said.

[cartman]

I've always wondered why our bills were the same size. From just a practical point it would seem to make things easier in general, not just for blind persons, to have the different denominations be different sizes. We do it with coins, why not the bills?

[ISiddiqui]

Maybe a raised seal with a number on it could work... of course that would be easy to dupe the blind by reproducing it, but then again, today you can dupe them by saying a bill is a $1 instead of a $20.

[WVUFAN]

People have existed for 200 years in this country without it -- it's a frivolous lawsuit that'll probably get appealed.

[Critch]

Now is the time for talking money. We have the technology (probably).

[JonInMiddleGA]

"James Robertson was appointed a United States District Judge by President Bill Clinton in 1994."

Now why did I have a premonition about what I would find when I looked up his appointment?

Maybe it was predictable or maybe his name was just stuck in my subconscious somewhere. This is the same guy who ruled against the government in the Gitmo enemy combatants case.

[ISiddiqui]

Now is the time for talking money. We have the technology (probably).

Indeed... it's not a bad time to change up the shape or embossment of the bills. Since we are changing the colors and design on the bills to prevent counterfeiting, why not go a bit farther; a simple change to make it easier for the blind, who are the mercy of the shopkeeper to be honest.

[cuervo72]

"Of the more than 180 countries that issue paper currency, only the United States prints bills that are identical in size and color in all their denominations,"

Um....

[cartman]

Indeed... it's not a bad time to change up the shape or embossment of the bills. Since we are changing the colors and design on the bills to prevent counterfeiting, why not go a bit farther.

My thoughts exactly. I wonder if those who are questioning this ruling would change their minds if one of the benefits would be to throw a massive wrench in North Korea's extensive and advanced dollar counterfeiting program. You'll never stop counterfeiting, but you can take steps to make it as difficult and hard to do as possible.

[cuervo72]

Also - this could lead to the obsolescence of current wallets on an unprecedented scale!

[ISiddiqui]

My thoughts exactly. I wonder if those who are questioning this ruling would change their minds if one of the benefits would be to throw a massive wrench in North Korea's extensive and advanced dollar counterfeiting program. You'll never stop counterfeiting, but you can take steps to make it as difficult and hard to do as possible.

I'd imagine an embossment would make it more difficult to counterfeit bills. It wouldn't need a change in the size of the bill to be more effective against the counterfeiters.

[cuervo72]

Jokes aside, I could see where some sort of tactile difference in bills (if not size, which apparently vending/change machine makers have lobbied against) would be very beneficial, and probably not hard to implement.

[cartman]

I'd imagine an embossment would make it more difficult to counterfeit bills. It wouldn't need a change in the size of the bill to be more effective against the counterfeiters.

Yep, I agree. I didn't say we HAD to change the size of the bills, but this ruling could be used as an impetus to change the currency to help combat counterfeiting.

[Subby]

People have existed for 200 years in this country without it
So by your reasoning we should get just get rid of the Internet :D

[st.cronin]

Also - this could lead to the obsolescence of current wallets on an unprecedented scale!

So there would be an economic benefit, as well!

[WVUFAN]

So by your reasoning we should get just get rid of the Internet :D

You know, you got me. I don't have a comeback for that, so I'll just be quiet. :)

[Anthony]

So by your reasoning we should get just get rid of the Internet :D

getting rid of the internet may not be such a bad thing in light of the following pic:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/HellAtlantic/fairy.jpg

[Draft Dodger]

^^^^^^^
or that dopey sig

[Flasch186]

"James Robertson was appointed a United States District Judge by President Bill Clinton in 1994."

Now why did I have a premonition about what I would find when I looked up his appointment?

Maybe it was predictable or maybe his name was just stuck in my subconscious somewhere. This is the same guy who ruled against the government in the Gitmo enemy combatants case.

man, tonight we are on opposite ends of the table. So if the handicapped shouldnt be able to discern monetary values easily unless they ask the guy theyre paying, "hey mister, Im handing you a twenty right?" I mean c'mon, it wont cost anymore and it helps out the needy, why is that so wrong? I never thought about it until this article but it makes total sense. I swear, Jon and his end of the spectrum will only be happy when all the people look exactly the same and think exactly the same. Seriously, explain why this is so wrong other than the typical, "quit your whining, bullying." that would be a valid reason from the side that is against this.

[14ers]

"Of the more than 180 countries that issue paper currency, only the United States prints bills that are identical in size and color in all their denominations," Robertson wrote in his ruling (http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/opinions/2006/Robertson/2002-CV-0864%7E12:56:1%7E11-28-2006-a.pdf). "
LOL... Why does this judge think changing the color of money will help the blind?

[highfiveoh]

LOL... Why does this judge think changing the color of money will help the blind?

LOL .. it's not like it could possibly help those that have partial vision ...

[sterlingice]

Um....

I was wondering that exact thing...

SI

[Joe Canadian]

F'n Clinton! Appointing judges 12 years ago, so that he could secretly start a revolution where the blind people take over America. He should be shot, and so should this judge... :rolleyes:

-

We have braille on our paper money... and the sky didn't fall on Canada,

[14ers]

What would be wrong with just putting a brail stamp on the money we currently have?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Seriously, explain why this is so wrong other than the typical, "quit your whining, bullying." that would be a valid reason from the side that is against this.

First of all, I find the notion of a judge determining something like this to be bordering on the bizarre end of absurd.

Secondly, has anybody actually considered the business implications of a resizing? Just off the top of my head, you're looking at a need for redesigns/retrofitting cash registers, vending machines & ATM's just as the most obvious. To even put that on the table is simply one of the most idiotic suggestions I've run across in years, judicial or otherwise.

There might be some method that would provide some improvement for the visually impaired & if it can be accomplished without a significant cost or aggravation then fine & dandy, have at it & more power to 'em. It's not like I have some burning desire to discomfit the blind just for the sake of doing so, but once again it seems we expend a helluva lot of energy in this country trying to find ways to discomfit the majority in order to satisfy a minority d'jour, and often in the strangest of ways.

And while you're damning me Flasch, you might re-read the article & note that the largest organization for the visually impaired also pretty much seems to think that this is pretty far down the list of things that should be getting a whole lot of attention too. But hey, maybe they're just anti-blind people too.

[cartman]

Secondly, has anybody actually considered the business implications of a resizing? Just off the top of my head, you're looking at a need for redesigns/retrofitting cash registers, vending machines & ATM's just as the most obvious. To even put that on the table is simply one of the most idiotic suggestions I've run across in years, judicial or otherwise.


I'm guessing it would be cheaper than Europe's change over to the Euro. We wouldn't be having to deal with any currency conversions, accounting systems changes, or any othe the other things they had to deal with, just a resize. If they could handle a migration like that, surely we would be able to as well.

And I agree that the change shouldn't be made just because of this ruling. The ruling should be used as a impetus to add radical anti-counterfeiting measures to the currency.

[Axxon]

What would be wrong with just putting a brail stamp on the money we currently have?

Wel , bli peop wou probab ha troub readi brail . I wou thi . ;)

[Flasch186]

First of all, I find the notion of a judge determining something like this to be bordering on the bizarre end of absurd.

Secondly, has anybody actually considered the business implications of a resizing? Just off the top of my head, you're looking at a need for redesigns/retrofitting cash registers, vending machines & ATM's just as the most obvious. To even put that on the table is simply one of the most idiotic suggestions I've run across in years, judicial or otherwise.




Thats not true, the registers dont have to have the slots get bigger. You could do an embossment, switch to coins (which we should do anyways), etc. So the costs would be negligible.

[Samdari]

So by your reasoning we should get just get rid of the Internet :D

Don't forget vaccinations. The human race existed for many thousands of years without them.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Thats not true, the registers dont have to have the slots get bigger. You could do an embossment, switch to coins (which we should do anyways), etc. So the costs would be negligible.

Read what I wrote again, I specifically mentioned "resizing" having those drawbacks, not every possibility. That's also why I left open the possibility of another method.

Off-hand however, embossment seems to be obviously prone to counterfeiting.
And attempts to switch to coins (which I actually prefer for the $1 denom.) have been dismal failures as the wide majority of Americans prefer the current method. And a complete switch to coin would indeed carry the same drawbacks with regards to replacement/retrofitting of vending machines, ATM's and the like, as well as cash drawers.

Like I said, find something that works without creating absurd costs nor upset and I've got no issue with it.

[Axxon]

Don't forget vaccinations. The human race existed for many thousands of years without them.

Don't forget all of us either. :eek:

[miked]

Leader of Senate: All fellow members of the Roman senate hear me. Shall we continue to build palace after palace for the rich? Or shall we aspire to a more noble purpose and build decent housing for the poor? How does the senate vote?

Entire Senate: FUCK THE POOR!

[duckman]

I think the blind have much bigger problems than this. It's hard to count money when 70%+ of the blind population is underemployed or not emploued at all. I don't see this making much of a difference for them at this moment.

[MikeVic]

You know, I've never realized that U.S. money isn't friendly to the blind. I agree that this should be changed.

[JeeberD]

Maybe blind folks should be forced to use check cards... ;)

[cuervo72]

And attempts to switch to coins (which I actually prefer for the $1 denom.) have been dismal failures as the wide majority of Americans prefer the current method.

http://www.thefobl.com/users/cuervo/jj-nickel.jpg

Jimmie Johnson thinks he has the solution.

[Joe Canadian]

Like I said, find something that works without creating absurd costs nor upset and I've got no issue with it.

Put braille on the paper notes... it works up here.

[Its Vanilla]

Why don't we simply ban cash and have everyone use a debit card? There you go.

[Subby]

Why don't we simply ban cash and have everyone use a debit card? There you go.
BALLERZ DONT USE DEBIT CARDS, YO!!! THEY USE BENJAMINS!!!

[lordscarlet]

I just wanted to say that a blind man works the register for the convenience store in my office building. People regularly lie to him about the bills they are giving him.

[highfiveoh]

I fully admit I am an American traditionalist. I also beleive that part of the plan of the blind is take over democracies little at a time through cultural, and law changes over a long peroid of time. Blind clerics know they cannot defeat us militarily, so this is what we are getting. What is happening in this instance is one small example of what I am talking about. Ask yourself this: Is this being applauded by the blind in the liddle east?

[Godzilla Blitz]

Put braille on the paper notes... it works up here.

I've always wondered why the US hasn't done something similar long ago. As a general rule, we're pretty considerate, at least in legal spheres, of helping the less fortunate.

A marking system doesn't have to be as elaborate as changing the size and coloring of the bills. Japan has small circular indentations on a corner of their bills to help the blind identify them. They've had them for more than 20 years.

I was actually surprised when the new US bills came out a few years ago that there wasn't any system implemented. It seems it would be simple to do.

[Desnudo]

Just make 20 different national coins plus the same in Euros. That should make it easier.

[Toddzilla]

I fully admit I am an American traditionalist. I also beleive that part of the plan of the blind is take over democracies little at a time through cultural, and law changes over a long peroid of time. Blind clerics know they cannot defeat us militarily, so this is what we are getting. What is happening in this instance is one small example of what I am talking about. Ask yourself this: Is this being applauded by the blind in the liddle east?LOL - having just read that other thread, this is great stuff...and no less stupid that what that other idiot is suggesting btw.

Well played, sir.

[ISiddiqui]

Off-hand however, embossment seems to be obviously prone to counterfeiting.

Cause uh... bills without embossment are never counterfeited!

[Toddzilla]

Leader of Senate: All fellow members of the Roman senate hear me. Shall we continue to build palace after palace for the rich? Or shall we aspire to a more noble purpose and build decent housing for the poor? How does the senate vote?

Entire Senate: FUCK THE POOR!HoTWP1 for teh win!

[CU Tiger]

I think we need to slow down and look at logic here.

In most cases financial transactions occur inside a store environment, right? Well I guess all relevent cases. There is always online purchases, but those involve entering CC #s and braile keyboards have been around forever.

So to get to the store to have the issue the blind person has to #1 drive themselves (maybe that explains Charlotte, NC traffic, can anyone check on the density of the blind population in Charlotte?) or be escorted/transported/chauffered by a suppsoedly trusted friend or associate. Who could (at least in theory) help them differentiate.

I really cant envision too many scenarios where someone who is completly blind is alone without assistance and needs to differentiate bill size.

Of course studies have also shown that as high as 88% of all transaction are now plastic, so...is this really an issue?

I have never lived in a NewYork or Chicago environment where Housing was located among commercial sites where it would be feasible for a blind person (perhaps with a seeing eye dog) to just walk out and to a store so maybe that would change all my arguments.

[ISiddiqui]

I really cant envision too many scenarios where someone who is completly blind is alone without assistance and needs to differentiate bill size.

What? Really? Most blind people I see in Atlanta are by themselves (in my building as well we have blind people behind the counter at the convenience stores)... or with seeing-eye dogs, and I don't think they can differentiate bills very well.

[wade moore]

What? Really? Most blind people I see in Atlanta are by themselves (in my building as well we have blind people behind the counter at the convenience stores)... or with seeing-eye dogs, and I don't think they can differentiate bills very well.

That's even the case out here in Williamsburg.

There are things called buses, subways, and taxis that are very important tools to the blind.

[wade moore]

Dola: Interestingly enough, all things that generally use cash.

[Logan]

What? Really? Most blind people I see in Atlanta are by themselves (in my building as well we have blind people behind the counter at the convenience stores)... or with seeing-eye dogs, and I don't think they can differentiate bills very well.

Yep...I literally bumped into 2 blind guys on my way to work today, and both times were my fault.

[ISiddiqui]

Dola: Interestingly enough, all things that generally use cash.

And I dunno about you, but I don't trust taxi drivers with cash as it is... I couldn't imagine trusting them to tell me what bill I had in my hand or what bill is given back to me as change!! :eek:

[wade moore]

And I dunno about you, but I don't trust taxi drivers with cash as it is... I couldn't imagine trusting them to tell me what bill I had in my hand or what bill is given back to me as change!! :eek:

Yup.

FWIW, I vaguely remember at one time hearing that some blind cope by dealing only with $1 bills.

[cartman]

FWIW, I vaguely remember at one time hearing that some blind cope by dealing only with $1 bills.

That's me when I go to the strip club.

[ISiddiqui]

I hear acting blind at the strip club doesn't work... so I hear.

[cartman]

I hear acting blind at the strip club doesn't work... so I hear.

I can never keep the seeing eye dog under control.

:D

[wade moore]

That's me when I go to the strip club.

I SO should have seen that one coming...

[CU Tiger]

Fair points.
I have only lived in this area except for college, and this is a notoriously commuter market (I ride 40 miles each way to work) so the idea of walking to work or even to the store is kinda a foreign concept.

On a unrelated note,
I heard a comedian one time do a whole bit on how do blind people know when to quit whiping after a shit...it was funny but sad I remeber laing with that thought on my mind...of all my senses I think sight would suck the most to lose...