POL/REL: Taking the Oath of Office on the Koran

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Well, I consider them a threat to our borders, language, and culture. The worst part of it is, that there are so many so-called Americans like yourself just lining up to let them. I am not saying there should be freedom, religious or otherwise, but I don't understand why you and the rest of the liberals are going out of your way to make SURE it happens.

I must have missed the memo calling for liberals to recruit Muslims to run for office. Forgive me if I choose to vote for someone based on their stance on the issues, regardless of religious beliefs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

In spite of the differences, they appear to get along just fine within our society...

Then again, not many of them have dedicated themselves to the destruction of the nation either.

[JPhillips]

There's a huge difference between "I like the way things are." and "Muslims shouldn't be allowed to have any voice in our government."

[Passacaglia]

Then again, not many of them have dedicated themselves to the destruction of the nation either.

Yeah, that's what Ellison is doing.

[NoMyths]

Then again, not many of them have dedicated themselves to the destruction of the nation either.
The only people bent on destroying this nation are the ones who believe freedom and equality are rights that only certain members of the population should be allowed. There are at least two of them in this thread, and they are easily spotted.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yeah, that's what Ellison is doing.

I don't believe this would be the first time that I've pointed out the fact that we face greater threats from within than from without.

But I really don't blame Ellison. He was relatively upfront about what he was.
The braindead treacherous fools that voted for him deserve much more of the blame.

It's really a good example of just how far in the crapper a lot of the country has fallen. This is tantamount to electing a Nazi to Congress in the early 40's.
But we seem to have been a lot smarter collectively then than we are now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The only people bent on destroying this nation are the ones who believe freedom and equality are rights that only certain members of the population should be allowed. There are at least two of them in this thread, and they are easily spotted.

Well pardon me for not believing that members of the enemy that we are actively at war with should be engaged in running the country. Hell, maybe we should have elected a few Communists in the middle of the Cold War too, put 'em on the Armed Services & Intelligence committees as soon as possible.

No Myths, we've disagreed plenty of times but damned if I ever truly thought you were as foolish as your remarks in this thread have indicated.

[NoMyths]

Well pardon me for not believing that members of the enemy that we are actively at war with should be engaged in running the country. Hell, maybe we should have elected a few Communists in the middle of the Cold War too, put 'em on the Armed Services & Intelligence committees as soon as possible.

No Myths, we've disagreed plenty of times but damned if I ever truly thought you were as foolish as your remarks in this thread have indicated.
We are not actively at war with Islam, Jon. And I don't find you foolish -- I find you dangerous. But as an American, I'm proud of our right to be able to say exactly the opposite of each other, with neither of us having to fear being murdered by the government for our positions. I'm not sure I could say the same about the kind of country you clearly wish we had.

[John Galt]

And I don't find you foolish -- I find you dangerous.

These do not have to be exclusive concepts.

[JonInMiddleGA]

We are not actively at war with Islam

And there would be that "foolish" part I was referring to.

Saying it in order to work around the weak-willed who don't have the stomach for the truth, that's one thing.

But my experience with you is that you're usually genuine (however misguided); in other words, I'm taking you at your word that you actually believe it.

And it saddens me that you are foolish enough to believe that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

These do not have to be exclusive concepts.

Isn't it about time for you to take another one of those posting sabbaticals or something?

[NoMyths]

And there would be that "foolish" part I was referring to.

Saying it in order to work around the weak-willed who don't have the stomach for the truth, that's one thing.

But my experience with you is that you're usually genuine (however misguided); in other words, I'm taking you at your word that you actually believe it.

And it saddens me that you are foolish enough to believe that.
I fully believe that there are members of our government and society such as yourself who very much want us to be at war with Islam. Our actions as a country, however, do not support that argument.

Surely you aren't stupid enough to believe that "we" (and I use the term loosely, considering the vast melange of American religions) could possibly win a war against a religion. It's been tried before. And in nearly every case, not only were the aggressors unsuccessful, but they were on the wrong side of history.

[PSUColonel]

I fully believe that there are members of our government and society such as yourself who very much want us to be at war with Islam. Our actions as a country, however, do not support that argument.

Surely you aren't stupid enough to believe that "we" (and I use the term loosely, considering the vast melange of American religions) could possibly win a war against a religion. It's been tried before. And in nearly every case, not only were the aggressors unsuccessful, but they were on the wrong side of history.


The reason we are at war with islam, is because islam is at war with us.

[cartman]

The reason we are at war with islam, is because islam is at war with us.

You and Jon keep leaving out the militant part. It is militant/radical Islam, not Islam as a whole we are fighting/is fighting us. That important distinction keeps being left out. You paint over 1 billion people with a brush that applies to a small percentage.

[Karlifornia]

Imagine there's no heaven
it's easy if you try
no hell below us
above us only sky

Imagine all the people
living for today

Imagine there's no country
it isn't hard to do
nothing to kill or die for
and no religion, too

Imagine all the people
living life in peace
You may say that I'm dreamer
but I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
and the world will be as one

Yeah, John Lennon pretty much summed it all up for me.

[NoMyths]

The reason we are at war with islam, is because islam is at war with us.
Tell that to Congressman Ellison, one of us.

We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with political entities and splinter groups who use fundamentalist Islam as a tool to achieve their aims.

[PSUColonel]

You and Jon keep leaving out the militant part. It is militant/radical Islam, not Islam as a whole we are fighting/is fighting us. That important distinction keeps being left out. You paint over 1 billion people with a brush that applies to a small percentage.



Then perhaps muslims all accross the globe, and especially in this nation (see Dearborn, Mich) should start to actively condemn the actions of radical islam and begin to stand side by side with America in our fight to rid the earth of these filthy vermon. When muslims come to America, it seems as though they don't want to assimilate into our culture, they simply want to change it to their liking. Here is just one example of what I am talking about:


http://www.islamfortoday.com/michiganhalal.htm


Another example of borders, language and cultural. And as you libs are so fond of pointing out, there shall be no religion in schools!! so, I guess these muslim children will just have to deal won't they?


...and no, most schools don't serve kosher meals either.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I fully believe that there are members of our government and society such as yourself who very much want us to be at war with Islam. Our actions as a country, however, do not support that argument.

Want to be? Nope.

I give less than a rat's ass what they worship, which way they turn their heads when they cough, or whether they bow on hardwood, wool, or linoleum. C'mon NM, it's not like you've seen me railing against (picking randomly) many Buddhists lately. But then again, they haven't made it clear that they want to kill everyone who isn't into their thing. Nor have they spent decades attacking one of our most important allies. Nor have they danced in the fucking streets after planes flew into buildings on American soil.

This war has jackshit to do with religion ... except insofar as that happens to be the common characteristic of those we're at war with. If we were attacked in similar fashion by left-handed pygmy podiatrists that happened to span 152.667 different religions, I'd be equally adamant about the need to take strong measures against the damned L.H.P.P.'s too.

And somewhere along the way, I believe you've gotten really confused about how things work. "Our actions as a country" have nada to do with the state of war that exists. Oops, correction: the fact that we haven't made as much progress as we should have is in part attributable to the disgusting & contemptable lack of courage, intelligence, and logic that a significant portion of the country seems to suffer from. Perhaps those same failures also contributed to the engagement in the first place. But denying the reality of being at war /= not being at war.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Then perhaps muslims all accross the globe, and especially in this nation (see Dearborn, Mich) should start to actively condemn the actions of radical islam

Won't happen.

In a rather warped form of honesty, they largely prefer silence & ambiguity to directly lying.

[cuervo72]

Another interesting article: http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20050701faessay84409/robert-s-leiken/europe-s-angry-muslims.html

As a consequence of demography, history, ideology, and policy, western Europe now plays host to often disconsolate Muslim offspring, who are its citizens in name but not culturally or socially. In a fit of absentmindedness, during which its academics discoursed on the obsolescence of the nation-state, western Europe acquired not a colonial empire but something of an internal colony, whose numbers are roughly equivalent to the population of Syria. Many of its members are willing to integrate and try to climb Europe's steep social ladder. But many younger Muslims reject the minority status to which their parents acquiesced. A volatile mix of European nativism and immigrant dissidence challenges what the Danish sociologist Ole Waever calls "societal security," or national cohesion. To make matters worse, the very isolation of these diaspora communities obscures their inner workings, allowing mujahideen to fundraise, prepare, and recruit for jihad with a freedom available in few Muslim countries.

As these conditions developed in the late 1990s, even liberal segments of the European public began to have second thoughts about immigration. Many were galled by their governments' failure to reduce or even identify the sources of insécurité (a French code word for the combination of vandalism, delinquency, and hate crimes stemming from Muslim immigrant enclaves). The state appeared unable to regulate the entry of immigrants, and society seemed unwilling to integrate them. In some cases, the backlash was xenophobic and racist; in others, it was a reaction against policymakers captivated by a multiculturalist dream of diverse communities living in harmony, offering oppressed nationalities marked compassion and remedial benefits. By 2002, electoral rebellion over the issue of immigration was threatening the party systems of Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, and the Netherlands. The Dutch were so incensed by the 2002 assassination of Pim Fortuyn, a gay anti-immigration politician, that mainstream parties adopted much of the victim's program. In the United Kingdom this spring, the Tories not only joined the ruling Labour Party in embracing sweeping immigration restrictions, such as tightened procedures for asylum and family reunification (both regularly abused throughout Europe) and a computerized exit-entry system like the new U.S. Visitor and Immigration Status Indicator Technology program; they also campaigned for numerical caps on immigrants. With the Muslim headscarf controversy raging in France, talk about the connection between asylum abuse and terrorism rising in the United Kingdom, an immigration dispute threatening to tear Belgium apart, and the Dutch outrage over the van Gogh killing, western Europe may now be reaching a tipping point.

Ok, so this is not really the same matter as Ellison. But I thought it was interesting nonetheless.

(I don't think the fact that Ellison is a Muslim is in and of itself a problem here. Now, if he had some apparent ties to the radical, Arabic brand Islam, that's something else entirely. Most there seems to be are some past ties to the Nation of Islam, which at least for purposes of the election Ellison looks to have tried to distance himself from. I don't know enough about the "Council on American-Islamic Relations" to really comment on them.

But as for a "slippery slope" argument - I'd say Europe is quite a ways down that slope, and is something to at least keep an eye on.)

[JPhillips]

But Europe is in this situation in large part because there is no way to integrate into society. Look at the riots in France. Those young Muslims can't get the same jobs, education or rights of native Frenchmen. They are a permanent underclass. That's a large part of what makes them so willing to abandon assimilation all together.

That's where we are different. In the U.S. anyone can gain the full rights of citizenship. Bringing Muslims into the government is the best way to limit the possibility of radicalization. Its when people don't have a voice that they are most likely to turn violent.

[NoMyths]

But Europe is in this situation in large part because there is no way to integrate into society. Look at the riots in France. Those young Muslims can't get the same jobs, education or rights of native Frenchmen. They are a permanent underclass. That's a large part of what makes them so willing to abandon assimilation all together.

That's where we are different. In the U.S. anyone can gain the full rights of citizenship. Bringing Muslims into the government is the best way to limit the possibility of radicalization. Its when people don't have a voice that they are most likely to turn violent.
Articulately and accurately said. It is critical to identify the root causes of unrest, rather than jump to bad conclusions.

[cartman]

Then perhaps muslims all accross the globe, and especially in this nation (see Dearborn, Mich) should start to actively condemn the actions of radical islam and begin to stand side by side with America in our fight to rid the earth of these filthy vermon. When muslims come to America, it seems as though they don't want to assimilate into our culture, they simply want to change it to their liking. Here is just one example of what I am talking about:


http://www.islamfortoday.com/michiganhalal.htm


Another example of borders, language and cultural. And as you libs are so fond of pointing out, there shall be no religion in schools!! so, I guess these muslim children will just have to deal won't they?


...and no, most schools don't serve kosher meals either.

So I guess we need to dismantle all of the Chinatowns, Japantowns, Germantowns, Little Italys etc. that exist in almost every major city. If they still haven't fully assimilated into our culture yet, that mean the MUST want to destroy the American Way.

I haven't heard of a single Muslim group in the US that did not condemn the 9/11 attacks. In fact, their leaders met with Bush at the White House for dinner to show public solidarity against radical Islam. But I guess you are looking for some sort of weekly affirmation that they haven't all of a sudden endorsed Al-Qaeda. There were many condemnations from Muslim groups outside the US as well.

You also need to rethink your derogatory use of "libs" against those who don't think like you do. I would venture to guess that a majority of conservatives and moderates do not consider non-extremist Muslims as enemies of our country. But you seem to be comfortable using blanket statements that don't reflect the true nature of what you are trying to convey.

[NoMyths]

This war has jackshit to do with religion ... except insofar as that happens to be the common characteristic of those we're at war with. If we were attacked in similar fashion by left-handed pygmy podiatrists that happened to span 152.667 different religions, I'd be equally adamant about the need to take strong measures against the damned L.H.P.P.'s too.
I'm glad you agree with me. Now if only I could convince you that the characteristic you're focusing on is not, in actually, the root cause of the problem we're attempting to solve, and in actuality there are other causes.

[PSUColonel]

So I guess we need to dismantle all of the Chinatowns, Japantowns, Germantowns, Little Italys etc. that exist in almost every major city. If they still haven't fully assimilated into our culture yet, that mean the MUST want to destroy the American Way.

I haven't heard of a single Muslim group in the US that did not condemn the 9/11 attacks. In fact, their leaders met with Bush at the White House for dinner to show public solidarity against radical Islam. But I guess you are looking for some sort of weekly affirmation that they haven't all of a sudden endorsed Al-Qaeda. There were many condemnations from Muslim groups outside the US as well.

You also need to rethink your derogatory use of "libs" against those who don't think like you do. I would venture to guess that a majority of conservatives and moderates do not consider non-extremist Muslims as enemies of our country. But you seem to be comfortable using blanket statements that don't reflect the true nature of what you are trying to convey.


http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/012407.php

[Passacaglia]

The district currently provides meatless lunches for Roman Catholics on Fridays during Lent, Cipriano said.

This doesn't sound like they're trying to take over America. It sounds like they're just trying to be treated the same as other religions.

[PSUColonel]

This doesn't sound like they're trying to take over America. It sounds like they're just trying to be treated the same as other religions.


Providing an alternative non-meat meal a few times a year is much different than having to do so on a daily basis.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Now if only I could convince you that the characteristic you're focusing on is not, in actually, the root cause of the problem we're attempting to solve

Good luck with that.

To counter, maybe I'll try to convince you that the world is actually flat.

At least that way, we'd be taking on equally challenging (albeit futile) tasks.

[cartman]

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/012407.php

Those folks would get along great with, and have as much national relevance as, the government-hating radical white supremacists in Idaho. They hate the US government and Jews as much as those people appear to.

What exactly was that article supposed to refute in my previous post?

[Passacaglia]

Providing an alternative non-meat meal a few times a year is much different than having to do so on a daily basis.

Oh okay -- so the Catholics just want to take over one fifth of America, while the Muslims want all of it?

Anyway, the whole issue of school lunch is not my favorite -- I'm not exactly down with the government feeding us, but I understand why it's happening. I don't see why they can't have some day in the food they're being given.

[PSUColonel]

Those folks would get along great with, and have as much national relevance as, the government-hating radical white supremacists in Idaho. They hate the US government and Jews as much as those people appear to.

What exactly was that article supposed to refute in my previous post?

While this particular example may be extereme when compared to the way the rest of the muslims in Dearborn think, I am attempting to illustrate the fact that there IS in fact a somewhat anti-American sentiment amongst muslims living in the U.S., and particularly in Dearborn. All they need to do is jump on the team and go in for the win, yet they hesitate to do so, which in the long run creates fear amongst the rest of the U.S. who is attempting to win a war, and obviously is combating terrorism.(which is a tactic closely related to muslims for better or worse) I guess what I amsaying is that it just seems as though those who are perceived as peaceful muslims could quell much of the fear themselves if they would STRONGLY denounce islamic fascisim, and truly join the fight.

[Passacaglia]

While this particular example may be extereme when compared to the way the rest of the muslims in Dearborn think, I am attempting to illustrate the fact that there IS in fact a somewhat anti-American sentiment amongst muslims living in the U.S., and particularly in Dearborn. All they need to do is jump on the team and go in for the win, yet they hesitate to do so, which in the long run creates fear amongst the rest of the U.S. who is attempting to win a war, and obviously is combating terrorism.(which is a tactic closely related to muslims for better or worse) I guess what I amsaying is that it just seems as though those who are perceived as peaceful muslims could quell much of the fear themselves if they would STRONGLY denounce islamic fascisim, and truly join the fight.

How strongly would you like them to denounce it?

[PSUColonel]

Here is a very good one. It outlines the fear much of America has for muslims, but in a way, law enforcement would not be doing it's job if it didn't act.


http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061009/ackerman



I think this article brings out both sides that have been argued in this thread.

[-Mojo Jojo-]

While this particular example may be extereme when compared to the way the rest of the muslims in Dearborn think, I am attempting to illustrate the fact that there IS in fact a somewhat anti-American sentiment amongst muslims living in the U.S., and particularly in Dearborn. All they need to do is jump on the team and go in for the win, yet they hesitate to do so, which in the long run creates fear amongst the rest of the U.S. who is attempting to win a war, and obviously is combating terrorism.(which is a tactic closely related to muslims for better or worse) I guess what I amsaying is that it just seems as though those who are perceived as peaceful muslims could quell much of the fear themselves if they would STRONGLY denounce islamic fascisim, and truly join the fight.

And suddenly PSU Colonel's identity and philosophy snap into place:


Pogue Colonel: Then how about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?
Private Joker: Yes, sir.
Pogue Colonel: Son, all I've ever asked of my marines is that they obey my orders as they would the word of God. We are here to help the Vietnamese, because inside every gook there is an American trying to get out. It's a hardball world, son. We've gotta keep our heads until this peace craze blows over.

This thread makes much more sense now...

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I guess what I amsaying is that it just seems as though those who are perceived as peaceful muslims could quell much of the fear themselves if they would STRONGLY denounce islamic fascisim, and truly join the fight.

Are you calling for American Muslims to denounce the violence of Islamic fundamentalists and take up arms and fight for us at the same time? Or am I misreading your statement to "truly join the fight"?

[cuervo72]

But Europe is in this situation in large part because there is no way to integrate into society. Look at the riots in France. Those young Muslims can't get the same jobs, education or rights of native Frenchmen. They are a permanent underclass. That's a large part of what makes them so willing to abandon assimilation all together.

That's where we are different. In the U.S. anyone can gain the full rights of citizenship. Bringing Muslims into the government is the best way to limit the possibility of radicalization. Its when people don't have a voice that they are most likely to turn violent.

I hope that's the case - and the author of the second article did point towards the US's better overall experiences with immigration. But, I wouldn't say that we're perfect on the jobs, education & integration front. Only our failings there have manifested themselves in poverty and crime (including gang crime...which in my area is beginning to increase, partially fueled by immigration). We've had our own underclasses too.

[PSUColonel]

I hope that's the case - and the author of the second article did point towards the US's better overall experiences with immigration. But, I wouldn't say that we're perfect on the jobs, education & integration front. Only our failings there have manifested themselves in poverty and crime (including gang crime...which in my area is beginning to increase, partially fueled by immigration). We've had our own underclasses too.

I would argue part of it is fueled by ILLEGAL immigration, not to say legal immigration can't fuel crime, but illegal immigrants are arrested at a much higher rate, usually because they are committing a crime before it's discovered they're illegal.

[JPhillips]

We certainly do have an underclass, but its not a legally mandated underclass. While many people won't escape there is no legal restrictions for leaving the underclass and becoming fully vested members of society.

That's the difference between us and much of Europe. That's also why I think the guest worker program is a terrible idea. We don't need to legislate restrictions on access to citizenship.

[dawgfan]

Good luck with that.

To counter, maybe I'll try to convince you that the world is actually flat.

At least that way, we'd be taking on equally challenging (albeit futile) tasks.

Note to NoMyths - arguing with the insane will give you a headache.

[Galaxy]

What exactly is the "American" way/culture that you keep referring to?

Secondly, go hang out with some real Muslim people. They aren't all like the ones you think they are.

[PSUColonel]

What exactly is the "American" way/culture that you keep referring to?

Secondly, go hang out with some real Muslim people. They aren't all like the ones you think they are.


Go hang out in Dearborn, MI


and after that, it sounds like quite a few of you should just stay in Michigan....go live in Ann Arbor.

[PSUColonel]

I must have missed the memo calling for liberals to recruit Muslims to run for office. Forgive me if I choose to vote for someone based on their stance on the issues, regardless of religious beliefs.

I am talking about in the court of public opinion.

[Passacaglia]

Go hang out in Dearborn, MI


and after that, it sounds like quite a few of you should just stay in Michigan....go live in Ann Arbor.

Oh my. Have you BEEN to Dearborn?

[PSUColonel]

Oh my. Have you BEEN to Dearborn?

yes

[Pumpy Tudors]

OK, I'm trying to follow this thread, but after the sodomy talk stopped, I got lost. I don't follow the news or anything, so tell me if I've got this right:

Are we at war with Dearborn, Michigan?

[Honolulu_Blue]

OK, I'm trying to follow this thread, but after the sodomy talk stopped, I got lost. I don't follow the news or anything, so tell me if I've got this right:

Are we at war with Dearborn, Michigan?

I really hope not. I would be very close to the frontline of such a war and it would simply devistate the property value of my house. That would be really depressing.

[Passacaglia]

I really hope not. I would be very close to the frontline of such a war and it would simply devistate the property value of my house. That would be really depressing.

Plus, I always thought Greenfield Village was kind of cool. Although, if we nuke it, that might provide a cool picture -- kinda like the one of the Polish cavalry going up against the German tanks.

[Passacaglia]

yes

How long were you there? What did you think of it?

[Crapshoot]

Plus, I always thought Greenfield Village was kind of cool. Although, if we nuke it, that might provide a cool picture -- kinda like the one of the Polish cavalry going up against the German tanks.

I think the next step in the war is to start fighting brown people. Pass, I'm sorry - your fiancee will have to go. :D

[PSUColonel]

I think the next step in the war is to start fighting brown people. Pass, I'm sorry - your fiancee will have to go. :D

This is what I mean about liberals, you are taking it upon yourself to assume I am a racist because I am somewhat leary of muslims living in this nation. We are at war with islam though. People felt the same way about the Japaneese during WWII. Why? because they were racist? no, it's because we were at war with Japan. Stop acting like a moron.

[cartman]

This is what I mean about liberals, you are taking it upon yourself to assume I am a racist because I am somewhat leary of muslims living in this nation. We are at war with islam though. People felt the same way about the Japaneese during WWII. Why? because they were racist? no, it's because we were at war with Japan. Stop acting like a moron.

How come we didn't build internment camps for Germans and Italians as well? We were at war with them too. Oh, that's right, it's much easier to tell who is Japanese simply by looking at them, as it is easy in most cases to tell who is Muslim, or appears to be. Remember the Sikh who got shot after 9/11?

It was seen in hindsight that the decision to put the Japanese in internment camps was wrong, and did have racist undertones. The war situation at the time subverted the racial tone of the internments. Much as it appears to be doing now. PSU, the tone of your posts makes it appear to seem that you were leery of the Muslims living in the US even before 9/11 happened.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

This is what I mean about liberals, you are taking it upon yourself to assume I am a racist because I am somewhat leary of muslims living in this nation.

Somewhat leery? That's funny. You've called their religion "vile and disgusting", claim that we are at war with their religion, accuse them of wanting to undermine our country and its values, and you obviously don't feel like any of them should hold elected office. I hate to see it when you are actually leery of a group.

[PSUColonel]

I did not call the religion itself vile, but rather it's doctorines, which I think you might have to agree with if you knew what they were.

[dawgfan]

People felt the same way about the Japaneese during WWII. Why? because they were racist? no, it's because we were at war with Japan. Stop acting like a moron.
Yeah, locking up innocent Japanese-Americans during the war sure was a great idea wasn't it?

And besides, comparing being at war with a country is much different than saying we're at war with a religion. I'm sure the muslims in Turkey, Indonesia, India, Russia, Nigeria, Morocco, Malaysia, China and Bangladesh (among many others) would be very surprised to find out that the U.S. is at war with them due to their religion.

This kind of thinking is dangerously ignorant. Islam is indeed a common factor among the militant radicals in the Middle East that are waging a terrorist war against the U.S. and the West, but there is another critical common factor - the cultural, social and economic commonalities among the Arabs, Persians, Turks and others in the region. Islam as practiced in these regions is different than Islam as practiced in Southeastern Asia and Central Africa (as well as among most American Muslims).

It is lazy thinking that assumes that the way these radical Middle Eastern Muslims practice their religion is characteristic of the religion as a whole.

[Galaxy]

This is what I mean about liberals, you are taking it upon yourself to assume I am a racist because I am somewhat leary of muslims living in this nation. We are at war with islam though. People felt the same way about the Japaneese during WWII. Why? because they were racist? no, it's because we were at war with Japan. Stop acting like a moron.

Love the "liberals" slam (and I think half of the people, including myself, aren't even in that group).

[Galaxy]

I did not call the religion itself vile, but rather it's doctorines, which I think you might have to agree with if you knew what they were.

Don't Christian doctrines have the same concepts?

[Crapshoot]

This is what I mean about liberals, you are taking it upon yourself to assume I am a racist because I am somewhat leary of muslims living in this nation. We are at war with islam though. People felt the same way about the Japaneese during WWII. Why? because they were racist? no, it's because we were at war with Japan. Stop acting like a moron.

They interned Americans in the war PSU - Americans. Understand that and figure out what the idiocy is. And for the love of god, stop calling me a liberal.

[PSUColonel]

Don't Christian doctrines have the same concepts?

FROM THE KORAN ITSELF...
"HEIL HITLER" Now Upgraded to "ALLAH AKBAR?"

You may already know about this one: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

But did you know that there are 123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah? Here are but a few passages:

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78)

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

And Speaking of Paradise...

"There will be "gushing fountains" and everyone "shall recline on jeweled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine." Suras (or chapters) 55 and 56 of the Quran.

"Therein are bashful virgins whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before ... virgins as fair as corals and rubies," sura 55. A few lines later, you might remind them of "virgins chaste and fair ... they shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets."

"The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a.'"

It will be the day, God willing, you spend with the women of paradise...Know that the gardens of paradise are waiting for you in all their beauty, and the women of paradise are waiting, calling out, "Come hither, friend of God."

[PSUColonel]

90%-95% OF ALL THE CONFLICTS ON THIS PLANET TODAY
INVOLVE MUSLIMS FIGHTING NON-MUSLIMS OR EACH OTHER!


Until a nation has embraced Islam, it is legally considered a battlefield. Once it has converted to Islam (or all its citizens have been slaughtered or driven out), it then becomes a Land of Peace.

[Honolulu_Blue]

FROM THE KORAN ITSELF...
"HEIL HITLER" Now Upgraded to "ALLAH AKBAR?"

We have a "Hitler" sighting. I repeat, the specter of Hitler has been brought into this thread.

Doesn't that usually end the discussion?

Wasn't PSUColonel banned? I was pretty sure he was banned. Who un-banned him?

[JPhillips]

Without doing a lot of research I bet you could almost flip that to Jews/Christians.

Iraq
Afghanistan
Bosnia
Sudan
Israel
Russia
Philippines
Columbia
Mexico

etc.

[cartman]

How about this from the Bible:

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ... Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
-- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5

Or how about this:


He that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him.- Leviticus 24:16

or this little ditty:


And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. - Numbers 31:15-19


We can trade violent quotes all day between the Bible and the Koran.

[Galaxy]

How about this from the Bible:



Or how about this:



or this little ditty:



We can trade violent quotes all day between the Bible and the Koran.

Thanks for answering my questions.

[PSUColonel]

The average European couple now has fewer than 1.4 babies, compared to 3.6 babies born to the average Muslim immigrant couple in Europe. Across Western Europe 16 to 20 percent of babies are being born into Muslim families. By 2020 Muslims will account for 10% of the overall population of Europe. Within 20 years, Muslims will be 30% of France - in 30 or 40 years, a majority. In ten years, Muslims will be the majority in Spain and Italy.

Don't think that Islamic activity is confined only to the Third World. Today, Muslims invade civilized countries under the benign guise of immigration. Their influence in Europe is growing steadily and will continue to do so unopposed until the Europeans finally wake up, although it's hard to tell if they can do it in time to save themselves. In fact, immigration accounted for 89 percent of Europe’s population growth during the 1990s! When Christian society was mighty, Muslim society was timid. Western Christian countries have lost their fervor. Many have acquired Muslim fifth columns, which they tolerate regardless of insults to the host countries. But now the Europeans are starting to panic. Their women cannot possibly reproduce as quickly as can fertile Muslim women!

In thirty years the Muslim population of Great Britain rose from 82,000 to two million.... a 25-fold increase... nearly one-half million Muslims in London alone! This Islamic invasion is obviated by the sight of over one thousand mosques littering the British landscape. Even London itself has become a main launching pad for much of the pro-Islamic, pro-Arab and pro-Palestinian Internet propaganda! Over the past 20 years, say experts, Britain has become a headquarters for extremist Muslim clerics and a fertile recruitment ground for new followers. Counter-terrorism officials estimate that 10,000 to 15,000 Muslims living in Britain are supporters of Al Qaeda. Among that number, officials believe that as many as 600 men were trained in camps connected with Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

In the last 30 years the Muslim population of Great Britain rose from 82,000 to two million.


Finsbury Park Mosque in North London, a Base for Islamic Extremism

Muslims in Britain have made it clear that they have no intention of assimilating. Seven percent of Muslims consider themselves British first, 81 percent consider themselves Muslim first. Dr. Zaki Badwari, former Director of the Islamic Cultural Centre of London wrote, "A proselytizing religion [like Islam] cannot stand still. Islam endeavors to expand in Britain. It aims at bringing its message to all corners of the earth. It hopes that one day the whole of humanity will be one Muslim community, the Umma." Britain operates as a strategic base for some of the most radical Islamic groups which preach hatred, incite to violence and recruit volunteers for terrorist activities. Britain now has one of the highest concentrations of closed-circuit TV cameras in Europe... nearly 1.5 million in operation! In late May 2001 the Brits were treated to their very own Muslim-Pakistani rioting! There is something deservedly humorous that this should happen to the pro-Muslim Brits who waste no time dumping on Israel! God Save the Queen! For more on Radical Islam In the U.K. click HERE. To see a partial list of Islamic Groups infesting England click HERE. Click HERE for more on how Muslims are transforming British society! Click HERE to watch a video of London's patriotic Muslims in action! Be sure to read the revealing book by Melanie Phillips called "Londonistan" in which she documents how the Brits have refused to accept that they are confronted by a murderous, expansionist Islamic ideology, or that their own capital city has been transformed into “Londonistan.” For Phillips, Britain is a nation in denial about Islam, about terrorism, about Israel, and above all about itself.

Two of Europe's most legally tolerant regions...namely, the Dutch-language areas around Europe's most important west coast harbors, Antwerp [Belgium] and Rotterdam [Netherlands]... as the main breeding ground for Muslim-fundamentalist terrorist groups. Osama bin Laden 's organization even runs shipping companies as fronts from Amsterdam.

Something rotten in Denmark? How about the 200,000 Muslim immigrants trying to dictate their anti-Israel, anti-America and anti-Western values upon 5 million Danes? Even though they represent only 4% of the population, the Muslims consume upwards of 40 percent of welfare spending. They also account for 65-75% of the country's convicted rapists... with almost all victims non-Muslim Danes! Demographers have predicted that in just 40 years, one out of every three Danes will be Muslim. At this point, we're sure the Danes wish it were their Jewish population which was growing faster than rabbits on a hot tin roof. Jews are almost always model citizens! But the Danish Jews only number 6,000.

Dateline Sweden: Cold temperatures have not discouraged Muslim immigration. One out of every 22 Swedes are now Muslims and Islam is the nation's second largest religion. Farewell to the blue-eye, blonde hair Swedish beauties! Of the nearly 9 million people in Sweden, 400,000 are Muslim, leading to a drastic increase in anti-Semitic acts against Sweden's 17,000 Jews.

In Holland [aka The Netherlands], because of its total lack of anti-terrorism laws and its very high level of religious, cultural and judicial tolerance, Muslim-fundamentalist terrorist groups are allowed to thrive. The Muslims now number about 15% of the population. In 20 years' time the majority of Holland's under 18 year old children will be Muslim. In fact, 50 per cent of the newborns during the next twenty years will be Muslim! In Amsterdam, the most popular name for a newborn boy is Mohammed, and a majority of residents will be Muslim within 10 to 15 years. A finger in the dike won't work this time, folks!

Two million Muslims have soaked into Germany; one million into Italy; 200,000 in Spain; 500,000 in Belgium...1/10th its entire population and 1/4 of Brussels, its capitol city. Half of all babies born in Belgium are now Muslims! In total, 11,000,000 Muslims have saturated Western Europe! It now becomes clear just who is organizing and marching in Europe's anti-Israel and anti-American demonstrations!

In Italy, 95% of all rapists are Muslims. Eighty-five percent of all murderers are Muslims. Ah, such a wonderful religion of peace! What does the Pope and the rest of the Vatican Church have to say about this? Nothing! And what will the ordinary Italian say when, in ten years, Muslims will be the majority in Italy!!!

France is faring no better. In 1945, there were 100,000 Muslims in France. A fifty fold increase since then now has them numbering 7 million out of a total population of 60 million! Muslims are already 25% of all French under the age of 21. If present birth trends continue, by 2030 a quarter of France's people will be Muslim, more than enough to determine who controls the national parliament and executive. The nuclear-armed French military is already 15 percent Muslim. And if the French-Muslim birth rate continues as projected, France will have a Muslim majority in less than 25 years! Another telling statistic is that although the Muslims are 12% of France's population, 70 percent of a total of 60,775 prisoners in France are Muslims! All of France's urban suburbs are being roamed by Muslim black African or Arabic gangs. One-fifth of all births in France are Muslims! Mohammed is one of the most common names next to Pierre! And Paris has the largest Arab community outside of the Middle East! This is a result of a lenient immigration policy, high Muslim birthrate and conversions. A very high proportion of French Muslims are in the underclass, that segment of the population that relies not so much on education and work as on welfare and predatory activities. In fact, over one thousand Muslim neighborhoods are under monitoring throughout France. Seven hundred of those Muslim neighborhoods are listed as "violent" and nearly 400 hundred are listed as "very violent." Violence ranges from rape (95% of rapists are Muslim), murder (85% of murderers are Muslim), theft and looting of cars (58% committed by Muslims) and street fighting to assault on teachers and civil servants. Periodic outbursts of large-scale unrest or rioting sometimes occur. And, most distressing, are the high numbers of assaults or rebellions against the police. As does England, one thousand mosques are said to operate in France. Oh, mon dieu, what is a Frenchman to do! Click HERE for an audio of what Frenchmen (and all other cowardly, appeasing Europeans) should do because "Buddies, you're next!" Also, check out "The Death of France."

For those of you who think the Swiss Guard is keeping tiny Switzerland free from Muslim infestation, think again. Switzerland is now 20 percent Muslim. Instead of hearing Heidi yodeling from atop the Alps, one hears Ahmed chanting "Allahu Akbar" from his mosque!

There are 14 to 17 million Muslims now living within the European Union. If only a minuscule fraction of the growing Muslim fundamentalist population of Europe were to join bin Laden's holy warriors (or some of the many Arab/Muslim/Islamic terrorist groups), internal-security officers would confront nightmare scenarios!

During the mid- fourteenth century, Europe was in the deadly grip of the Black Plaque. Today the Green Plague of Islam will transform Europe into EurAbia.

[Galaxy]

Do you just copy and paste other arguments?

[cartman]

Could you at least cite the source you cut and pasted that from?

[Galaxy]

The average European couple now has fewer than 1.4 babies, compared to 3.6 babies born to the average Muslim immigrant couple in Europe. Across Western Europe 16 to 20 percent of babies are being born into Muslim families. By 2020 Muslims will account for 10% of the overall population of Europe. Within 20 years, Muslims will be 30% of France - in 30 or 40 years, a majority. In ten years, Muslims will be the majority in Spain and Italy.

Don't think that Islamic activity is confined only to the Third World. Today, Muslims invade civilized countries under the benign guise of immigration. Their influence in Europe is growing steadily and will continue to do so unopposed until the Europeans finally wake up, although it's hard to tell if they can do it in time to save themselves. In fact, immigration accounted for 89 percent of Europe’s population growth during the 1990s! When Christian society was mighty, Muslim society was timid. Western Christian countries have lost their fervor. Many have acquired Muslim fifth columns, which they tolerate regardless of insults to the host countries. But now the Europeans are starting to panic. Their women cannot possibly reproduce as quickly as can fertile Muslim women!

In thirty years the Muslim population of Great Britain rose from 82,000 to two million.... a 25-fold increase... nearly one-half million Muslims in London alone! This Islamic invasion is obviated by the sight of over one thousand mosques littering the British landscape. Even London itself has become a main launching pad for much of the pro-Islamic, pro-Arab and pro-Palestinian Internet propaganda! Over the past 20 years, say experts, Britain has become a headquarters for extremist Muslim clerics and a fertile recruitment ground for new followers. Counter-terrorism officials estimate that 10,000 to 15,000 Muslims living in Britain are supporters of Al Qaeda. Among that number, officials believe that as many as 600 men were trained in camps connected with Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

In the last 30 years the Muslim population of Great Britain rose from 82,000 to two million.


Finsbury Park Mosque in North London, a Base for Islamic Extremism

Muslims in Britain have made it clear that they have no intention of assimilating. Seven percent of Muslims consider themselves British first, 81 percent consider themselves Muslim first. Dr. Zaki Badwari, former Director of the Islamic Cultural Centre of London wrote, "A proselytizing religion [like Islam] cannot stand still. Islam endeavors to expand in Britain. It aims at bringing its message to all corners of the earth. It hopes that one day the whole of humanity will be one Muslim community, the Umma." Britain operates as a strategic base for some of the most radical Islamic groups which preach hatred, incite to violence and recruit volunteers for terrorist activities. Britain now has one of the highest concentrations of closed-circuit TV cameras in Europe... nearly 1.5 million in operation! In late May 2001 the Brits were treated to their very own Muslim-Pakistani rioting! There is something deservedly humorous that this should happen to the pro-Muslim Brits who waste no time dumping on Israel! God Save the Queen! For more on Radical Islam In the U.K. click HERE. To see a partial list of Islamic Groups infesting England click HERE. Click HERE for more on how Muslims are transforming British society! Click HERE to watch a video of London's patriotic Muslims in action! Be sure to read the revealing book by Melanie Phillips called "Londonistan" in which she documents how the Brits have refused to accept that they are confronted by a murderous, expansionist Islamic ideology, or that their own capital city has been transformed into “Londonistan.” For Phillips, Britain is a nation in denial about Islam, about terrorism, about Israel, and above all about itself.

Two of Europe's most legally tolerant regions...namely, the Dutch-language areas around Europe's most important west coast harbors, Antwerp [Belgium] and Rotterdam [Netherlands]... as the main breeding ground for Muslim-fundamentalist terrorist groups. Osama bin Laden 's organization even runs shipping companies as fronts from Amsterdam.

Something rotten in Denmark? How about the 200,000 Muslim immigrants trying to dictate their anti-Israel, anti-America and anti-Western values upon 5 million Danes? Even though they represent only 4% of the population, the Muslims consume upwards of 40 percent of welfare spending. They also account for 65-75% of the country's convicted rapists... with almost all victims non-Muslim Danes! Demographers have predicted that in just 40 years, one out of every three Danes will be Muslim. At this point, we're sure the Danes wish it were their Jewish population which was growing faster than rabbits on a hot tin roof. Jews are almost always model citizens! But the Danish Jews only number 6,000.

Dateline Sweden: Cold temperatures have not discouraged Muslim immigration. One out of every 22 Swedes are now Muslims and Islam is the nation's second largest religion. Farewell to the blue-eye, blonde hair Swedish beauties! Of the nearly 9 million people in Sweden, 400,000 are Muslim, leading to a drastic increase in anti-Semitic acts against Sweden's 17,000 Jews.

In Holland [aka The Netherlands], because of its total lack of anti-terrorism laws and its very high level of religious, cultural and judicial tolerance, Muslim-fundamentalist terrorist groups are allowed to thrive. The Muslims now number about 15% of the population. In 20 years' time the majority of Holland's under 18 year old children will be Muslim. In fact, 50 per cent of the newborns during the next twenty years will be Muslim! In Amsterdam, the most popular name for a newborn boy is Mohammed, and a majority of residents will be Muslim within 10 to 15 years. A finger in the dike won't work this time, folks!

Two million Muslims have soaked into Germany; one million into Italy; 200,000 in Spain; 500,000 in Belgium...1/10th its entire population and 1/4 of Brussels, its capitol city. Half of all babies born in Belgium are now Muslims! In total, 11,000,000 Muslims have saturated Western Europe! It now becomes clear just who is organizing and marching in Europe's anti-Israel and anti-American demonstrations!

In Italy, 95% of all rapists are Muslims. Eighty-five percent of all murderers are Muslims. Ah, such a wonderful religion of peace! What does the Pope and the rest of the Vatican Church have to say about this? Nothing! And what will the ordinary Italian say when, in ten years, Muslims will be the majority in Italy!!!

France is faring no better. In 1945, there were 100,000 Muslims in France. A fifty fold increase since then now has them numbering 7 million out of a total population of 60 million! Muslims are already 25% of all French under the age of 21. If present birth trends continue, by 2030 a quarter of France's people will be Muslim, more than enough to determine who controls the national parliament and executive. The nuclear-armed French military is already 15 percent Muslim. And if the French-Muslim birth rate continues as projected, France will have a Muslim majority in less than 25 years! Another telling statistic is that although the Muslims are 12% of France's population, 70 percent of a total of 60,775 prisoners in France are Muslims! All of France's urban suburbs are being roamed by Muslim black African or Arabic gangs. One-fifth of all births in France are Muslims! Mohammed is one of the most common names next to Pierre! And Paris has the largest Arab community outside of the Middle East! This is a result of a lenient immigration policy, high Muslim birthrate and conversions. A very high proportion of French Muslims are in the underclass, that segment of the population that relies not so much on education and work as on welfare and predatory activities. In fact, over one thousand Muslim neighborhoods are under monitoring throughout France. Seven hundred of those Muslim neighborhoods are listed as "violent" and nearly 400 hundred are listed as "very violent." Violence ranges from rape (95% of rapists are Muslim), murder (85% of murderers are Muslim), theft and looting of cars (58% committed by Muslims) and street fighting to assault on teachers and civil servants. Periodic outbursts of large-scale unrest or rioting sometimes occur. And, most distressing, are the high numbers of assaults or rebellions against the police. As does England, one thousand mosques are said to operate in France. Oh, mon dieu, what is a Frenchman to do! Click HERE for an audio of what Frenchmen (and all other cowardly, appeasing Europeans) should do because "Buddies, you're next!" Also, check out "The Death of France."

For those of you who think the Swiss Guard is keeping tiny Switzerland free from Muslim infestation, think again. Switzerland is now 20 percent Muslim. Instead of hearing Heidi yodeling from atop the Alps, one hears Ahmed chanting "Allahu Akbar" from his mosque!

There are 14 to 17 million Muslims now living within the European Union. If only a minuscule fraction of the growing Muslim fundamentalist population of Europe were to join bin Laden's holy warriors (or some of the many Arab/Muslim/Islamic terrorist groups), internal-security officers would confront nightmare scenarios!

During the mid- fourteenth century, Europe was in the deadly grip of the Black Plaque. Today the Green Plague of Islam will transform Europe into EurAbia.

What's your point? People are relocating?

[NoMyths]

Yeah, (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21820) he's just trolling now (or perhaps always was, but now he's on autopilot, ignoring other posters).

[PSUColonel]

http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html

[PSUColonel]

What's your point? People are relocating?

No, you would need to re-read this entire thread.

[JPhillips]

There are 14 to 17 million Muslims now living within the European Union. If only a minuscule fraction of the growing Muslim fundamentalist population of Europe were to join bin Laden's holy warriors (or some of the many Arab/Muslim/Islamic terrorist groups), internal-security officers would confront nightmare scenarios!

HOLY SHIT! ORANGE ALERT! No, no, RED ALERT! HALT ALL TRANSPORTATION IMMEDIATELY! KILL YOURSELF NOW BEFORE THE MUSLIMS GET YOU!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Wasn't PSUColonel banned? I was pretty sure he was banned. Who un-banned him?
"

[JPhillips]

I love the scary music played in the background on these sites.

[PSUColonel]

Yeah, (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21820) he's just trolling now (or perhaps always was, but now he's on autopilot, ignoring other posters).

No, I am just trying to make a point. What is with the article you linked to your post? It seems to support my argument.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21820

[NoMyths]

No, I am just trying to make a point. What is with the article you linked to your post? It seems to support my argument.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21820
Um, it's the entire text of "your" argument, troll.

Edit: Heh, or at least the entire text of the section I Googled. Seems there are three such sites that are either plagiarizing each others' information, or run by the same folks.

[NoMyths]

dola...

It appears he wasn't banned, but he did get a month-long boxing.

[Galaxy]

dola...

It appears he wasn't banned, but he did get a month-long boxing.

For what?

[PSUColonel]

Here is another good article about what i am trying to say.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?GXHC_gx_session_id_=998d854af6b53cdc&pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1165099811123&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

[PSUColonel]

Um, it's the entire text of "your" argument, troll.

Edit: Heh, or at least the entire text of the section I Googled. Seems there are three such sites that are either plagiarizing each others' information, or run by the same folks.

I realize that, I am being sarcastic. Although I was wondering why you hyperlinked it.

[wade moore]

dola...

It appears he wasn't banned, but he did get a month-long boxing.

Correct, he was boxed, not banned.

I think you guys can probably guess what he was boxed for.

[NoMyths]

I realize that, I am being sarcastic. Although I was wondering why you hyperlinked it.
I have a thing about plagiarism, and calling it out by correctly citing sources. Since you have no arguments of your own, the least you could do is give credit to those who do.

But you should know this already, being as how you've claimed to be a broadcast journalist before.

[NoMyths]

dola...

As an example, I'll post an argument that I found on the web, and correctly cite its source:

According to PSUColonel in this thread (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=33483): "Now I hate to see anyone's civil liberties taken or curtailed, but unfortunately in times of war certain precautions become necessary. As of not support stripping muslims in America of their rights(unless of course they are here illegally)but thhat is not to say I wouldn't consider it in the future. Another attack could easily make it more than warranted IMO. The bottom line is I'm not happy with the way we are fighting this war. I don't beleive we should be rewarding illeagal immigrants through ammnesty, or granting them the right to drive in certain states. To me fighting the war on terror start at our borders. Also I am disturbed with the mindset of the people in this nation when it comes to fighting a war. Those who were part of the "greatest generation" knew full well the prices and sacrafices it took wo win WWII. In that war we were not opposed to bombing. I am not talking about using nukes(at this point anyway) but I beleive our refusal to bomb high priority target areas is a serious problem. We are such a "sensitive" culture today that we are afaid of civilian deaths. Well my contention is that while we might not like it, it is a necessary evil of war, and I beleive that kind of warfare is quicker, does more damage to the enemy, and results in feweer losses for the U-S. We must put our own interests ahead of middle easterners when we fight this war. right now our guys are involved in a street war, that is surely going to rsult in more losses than we've already seen. Now if you recall we alos curtailed the civil liberties of japaneese americans during WWII. Something that was a very accepted practice. Again why do we not share this kind of thinking today? If there are more attacks on the homeland, this is something I will very seriously consider."

Edit: Originally posted two years ago to the month. Yeesh, on several levels.

[PSUColonel]

I was not stealing work...I clearly admit it cam from another site. This is an internet message board, not a term paper pal. The rules here don't need to be as formal.

I mean, you all aren't even discussing the subject anymore. For some reason this entire thread you have been nit picking about every little thing I might do, instead of keeping to the discussion at hand.


P.S. I have not said or done anyhting in this thread that would or should ever constitute a banning.

[JPhillips]

PSU: That's not your call. As has been stated many times banning offenses are at the discretion of the mods. For good or bad, that's the way it is.

On another note, you should get the latest version of Firefox. It will help with your spelling problems.

[Galaxy]

Here is another good article about what i am trying to say.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?GXHC_gx_session_id_=998d854af6b53cdc&pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1165099811123&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

Yeah, the Russian government is a real winner.

[cartman]

P.S. I have not said or done anyhting in this thread that would or should ever constitute a banning.

Usually when someone takes the stance that they will not accept a banning, things do not turn out well.

[Raiders Army]

FWIW, I think everyone's attitude would be different if they actually believed we are at war. Regardless of whether you agree with it or not, we are at war. What makes us indifferent to the war is the fact that our lives have not changed much since 2003.

[PSUColonel]

What have I done to deserve a banning? Other than argue the subject from my point of view? Is that so bad?

[Pumpy Tudors]

What have I done to deserve a banning?
Um, pretty much the same thing you did last time you got banned.

[JPhillips]

PSU: I'm not arguing for a ban or against a ban. I'm just pointing out that the rules around here fluctuate according to the mods. If you feel like you have to start defending yourself against a banning, I'd advise you to just step away for a day or two and stay out of political threads for a while.

[dawgfan]

http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html

Yeah, that's a credible source of information...

:rolleyes:

[PSUColonel]

PSU: I'm not arguing for a ban or against a ban. I'm just pointing out that the rules around here fluctuate according to the mods. If you feel like you have to start defending yourself against a banning, I'd advise you to just step away for a day or two and stay out of political threads for a while.

point well taken.

[st.cronin]

All of you just need to accept that someday Tom Brady will be President.

[Pumpy Tudors]

OK, now that everybody's licked and made up, can we get back to talking about sodomy?

[rkmsuf]

OK, now that everybody's licked and made up, can we get back to talking about sodomy?

bring back sov and sui

[dawgfan]

OAre we at war with Dearborn, Michigan?

Yes. Bombing will commence in 3...2...1...

[digamma]

I was not stealing work...I clearly admit it cam from another site. This is an internet message board, not a term paper pal. The rules here don't need to be as formal.

Neither here nor there, but I'm pretty sure a majority of copyright lawyers would disagree with you.

[Subby]

Capsicum just called. She wants her FOFC schtick back.

[Galaxy]

yes

When? How long? What exactly did you do?

[Galaxy]

BTW,
Did PSU delete his other thread he started?

[JPhillips]

It does appear that Which Way Do You Lean is no more.

[PSUColonel]

It does appear that Which Way Do You Lean is no more.

Correct. It began causing more trouble than good, and as a result, I decided to pull the plug. I am finished with all of these discussions.

[Subby]

Here is where PSUColonel falls on the political scale (I WILL NOT LOSE POSTS!):

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/Subby5000/psu.gif

[dawgfan]

Isn't that the same spot that JiMG occupies?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Correct. It began causing more trouble than good, and as a result, I decided to pull the plug. I am finished with all of these discussions.

Dude!

I had some really good posts in that thread!

The hippy dude. . .

http://home.pacific.net.au/~turner23/2002/hippy-peace.jpg


The First Contact Vulcan. . .

http://paulmccain.worldmagblog.com/paulmccain/Vulcan.jpg

Instant classics!

Oh well. . .

I am still proud of where I ended up on that chart, by the way.

It was right about in the same spot as this guy. . .

http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/gandhi/Pictures/gandhi1.gif

[Toddzilla]

I am finished with all of these discussions.Quoted for hypocrisy.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Halleluja! (sp?). Anyways, I somehow don't believe it.

[flere-imsaho]

BTW,
Did PSU delete his other thread he started?

Yep. Nice, once again PSU shows that if you troll and then delete your thread, you can get away with it. No harm, no foul.