World Order Of Football (WOOF) looking for participants and media personalities

[Ben E Lou]

The World Order Of Football, a new Front Office Football 2007 multiplayer league, started our live draft today. If you're looking to get into a league with a number of experienced owners, a great web site, and some great competition, then come check us out. With 10 teams located outside of the United States, we are truly a world-wide league. Our settings:
Game-Generated Fictional Player File
"Live" Draft, beginning December 24th, 2006, and continuing through the end of January. Whatever round we're on at the end of January, we'll finish that round live, then let the AI draft the rest of the way (via our preferences) and then get rolling in early February.
Injury Setting=125
LEAGUE COMMISH: gstelmack
CONFERENCE PRESIDENTS: cartman and SkyDog
WEBMASTER: lordscarlet
WEB SITE: http://www.fof-woof.com. What you see now is Phase I. Additional functionality to come.
OWNER/TEAM LIST: http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/woof/woofteams.htmCome on over to http://www.fof-woof.com and say hello!

[Hammer]

This league looks full could you clarify any vacancies? I would be interested if I could get in for the initial draft.

[Ben E Lou]

No vacancies at the moment, but priority will likely be given to those who participate as media/fans/observers when teams come available. Nearly everyone in the WOOF is also in at least one other MP league, so I expect that a few teams will come open after the first season, as people realize that they can't juggle as many leagues as they thought they could.

[Dutch]

Hammer,

No vacancies right now as Skydog says.

Also, FWIW, many of the serious long-standing leagues in the FOFC community do not have waiting lists. The reason being is that their is a certain life cycle of a non-owner's interest level. You may get your name on a list and find yourself waiting 3, 4, 5 months and lose interest. But if your name was on the top of the list, the league would be inclined to invite you, at which point, you may accept, but the initial enthusiasm may be lost.

So, many leagues have scrapped the waiting list and simply look around during vacancies to see who looks interested. That way everybody is off on the right foot with a positive excitement about it.

All I can really tell you is to simply check out the more serious leagues, you don't have to post right away, but at least become familiar with them.

Turnover isn't great in many of these leagues (which makes these leagues so immersive) but vacancies do happen. If you can catch the eye of an owner or two, it sometimes doesn't take much more than one person commenting, "Hammer's been involved, can we invite him?" and with a little luck, you've found yourself a top notch league to compete with some serious ballerz (sic).

Good luck.

[Hammer]

All I can really tell you is to simply check out the more serious leagues

Thanks for that. TBH I do prefer to spend my time actually playing rather than following a league I'm not in. I am fairly new to the forum and appreciate the explanation of how things work. How would one determine what leagues are "serious" and which ones are not? Could you point me in the right direction? Currently playing in the EFL, WFL and NAFL. Would they be regarded as serious or more for the casual player?

[Cuckoo]

Currently playing in the EFL, WFL and NAFL. Would they be regarded as serious or more for the casual player?

Oh we're serious in the NAFL... :)

We do have a waiting list but rarely have openings. Recommendations from current GMs always count for a lot when I'm looking for a new GM.

[Dutch]

Thanks for that. TBH I do prefer to spend my time actually playing rather than following a league I'm not in. I am fairly new to the forum and appreciate the explanation of how things work. How would one determine what leagues are "serious" and which ones are not? Could you point me in the right direction? Currently playing in the EFL, WFL and NAFL. Would they be regarded as serious or more for the casual player?

I only know my little side of the FOF MP world. I'm in 3 good leagues, retired from one good league, and retired from one bad league.

[JeffW]

Eh, I'd like to get into the league, but I'm not too enthused about writing correspondence for a league I'm not participating in.

Maybe I'll ask around and see if someone wants me as an Asst. GM, though I am reluctant to share some of my FOF 2k7 expertise with future competitors. I've discovered a lot that I doubt anyone else has figured out yet.

[Joe]

Thanks for that. TBH I do prefer to spend my time actually playing rather than following a league I'm not in. I am fairly new to the forum and appreciate the explanation of how things work. How would one determine what leagues are "serious" and which ones are not? Could you point me in the right direction? Currently playing in the EFL, WFL and NAFL. Would they be regarded as serious or more for the casual player?

NAFL is good, don't know about the other 2. Haven't heard much (or anything really) on them.

[Shakes]

Id like to think we are serious in the EFL but we have some openings and our name isnt like it is with the NAFL. Not sure about the WFL though.

[fantastic flying froggies]

At this point in time, I would think any league that's been out there for 2-3 years (ie since FOF2004 came out) and still active can be called serious.

It's all the new leagues coming up with FOF2007 that need to be followed closely. Good thing about all these new leagues though is that they also brought a lot of new players out of the woods.

[fantastic flying froggies]

I only know my little side of the FOF MP world. I'm in 3 good leagues, retired from one good league, and retired from one bad league.

I'm curious, which one would be the bad league? (if you don't mind saying)

[Hammer]

Been having a lot of fun looking at the MP world out there. I didn't realise there were so many busy leagues out there. The NAFL will probably always be my number one league as long as its running. The dedication of our commish, Cuckoo, and the general support is simply outstanding.

You have done a great job in the EFL Shakes, I have a feeling the EFL will be around for a long time. It better be, I have a long term plan for those Titans :)

I have enough time for one more league. The one that really captured my imagination was the GEFL. Playing through the history of the NFL in an alternate universe. I'm going to hang around there for a bit and see if anything opens up.

[Ben E Lou]

Thanks for that. TBH I do prefer to spend my time actually playing rather than following a league I'm not in. I am fairly new to the forum and appreciate the explanation of how things work. How would one determine what leagues are "serious" and which ones are not? Could you point me in the right direction? Currently playing in the EFL, WFL and NAFL. Would they be regarded as serious or more for the casual player?

Any league can be for the serious player. I think what sets apart the leagues where owners are hand-picked versus leagues that just start out by taking the first 32 who sign up is day-to-day, week-to-week level of owner commitment you'll find. It's a lot more fun to be in a league where the great majority of the owners post on a daily basis. You look at IHOF, and you'll notice that for nearly three years, there are an average of over 100 posts per day. By all accounts, the NAFL is a solid, competitive league, but it averages under 30 posts per day. Again, no knock on the league, but clearly the participation level is nowhere near that of IHOF.

This is not to say that a league's post count is the end-all, be-all, but it *does* represent activity at the board, which is one big indicator of overall owner commitment. In IHOF, I feel like I'm competing against 28-30 people who are very active, are very serious about their teams, who talk about their teams and the league as a whole. I was in another league where it felt like there were maybe 10 people that were really participating, another 10ish who probably turned in most exports, but only posted a few times per week, and a dozen or so who weren't even turning in their exports, were letting the AI do nearly everything, and weren't even posting every week.

WOOF is shaping up to be the kind of league where people are very active. Despite the fact that the initial player pool was just released two days ago, we're at nearly 80 posts per day, a figure that is certain to increase as the draft is now going.

It's a catch-22, though. The more active leagues, by nature of being more active, have lower owner turnover than most leagues, so it can take a while of being on the waiting list to get in, and priority is given to those who have expressed more interest than just sticking their name on a list and never being around the boards.

Hammer, if you're already in three leagues, you've already got plenty of FOFing going on. I'd encourage you to participate well as an owner in those leagues, and if you're also interested in eventually getting into a high-activity league, invest the time and energy into getting to know the owners and environment in the WOOF. It really is a great opportunity to get in pretty early into a high-activity league, because here's the deal: the vast majority of the people in the WOOF are already in multiple FOF leagues. Inevitably, by the end of our first season if not sooner, there will be openings in the WOOF, because a few people will have spread themselves too thin by taking on another league.

Finally, one thing we're doing that is pretty unique, and should be a *LOT* of fun to follow, is a long-term "live" draft. In other words, we're not starting the league like most, with a preference draft. The commish sent the league file out on Christmas Eve, and we just started the process of drafting our teams, and that process will go through the end of January, at which point we'll finish whatever round we're in, then let the scouts take over for the rest of the way. It should be lots of fun to discuss (and second-guess) decisions that people make. ;)

[Hammer]

I would consider myself one of the more active GMs in the leagues I play in. I am a "serious" player, hence my desire to play against likeminded people. I don't miss exports, pretty much full stop. Read relevant forums each day, making contributions consistently.

Nothing against the WOOF or IHOF, but I do prefer having real names in my leagues. I find it easier to pick up who's who. You go into a fictional league, it takes an age to get to know your own team, let alone the league. Being a big NFL fan, I will know a few hundred players whatever the decade, 80's, 90's and today. Gives you a head start in getting to grips with the impact players I feel.

I have to say the full draft sounds fantastic. But missing out on that takes the edge of it a little for me. I would put it to you that it is actually not a whole lot of fun watching a live draft. Your not involved. If you have a franchise it totally changes the situation, your wondering who may drop, scouting players in detail etc. Its a totally different scenario in my view. I appreciate you want "vultures" for this new league, and I'm sure you will get them. But I expect you spend a whole lot more time in leagues you are affiliated with, rather than ones you are not. I would jump at the chance of a franchise, don't get me wrong, but my enthusiasm starts when that offer is made, not watching a load of other people having a blast from the outside. I'd sooner be doing the same in the leagues I am currently involved with.

The participation levels in the IHOF are unreal, and that does really appeal. I would invest the time to get to know the fictional players if I thought I could get into a league like this. I did look in detail at the IHOF, but what put me off was the high number of "vultures" already in on the act. From an outsiders point of view, I didn't think I'd have much chance of getting in the league. Being a relative unknown who is new to the forum, and behind a whole bunch of others in any case.

[Ben E Lou]

I would consider myself one of the more active GMs in the leagues I play in. I am a "serious" player, hence my desire to play against likeminded people. I don't miss exports, pretty much full stop. Read relevant forums each day, making contributions consistently.

Nothing against the WOOF or IHOF, but I do prefer having real names in my leagues. I find it easier to pick up who's who. You go into a fictional league, it takes an age to get to know your own team, let alone the league. Being a big NFL fan, I will know a few hundred players whatever the decade, 80's, 90's and today. Gives you a head start in getting to grips with the impact players I feel.

I have to say the full draft sounds fantastic. But missing out on that takes the edge of it a little for me. I would put it to you that it is actually not a whole lot of fun watching a live draft. Your not involved. If you have a franchise it totally changes the situation, your wondering who may drop, scouting players in detail etc. Its a totally different scenario in my view. I appreciate you want to "vultures" for this new league, and I'm sure you will get them. But I expect you spend a whole lot more time in leagues you are affiliated with, rather than ones you are not. I would jump at the chance of a franchise, don't get me wrong, but my enthusiasm starts when that offer is made, not watching a load of other people having a blast from the outside. I'd sooner be doing the same in the leagues I am currently involved with.

The participation levels in the IHOF are unreal, and that does really appeal. I would invest the time to get to know the fictional players if I thought I could get into a league like this. I did look in detail at the IHOF, but what put me off was the high number of "vultures" already in on the act. From an outsiders point of view, I didn't think I'd have much chance of getting in the league. Being a relative unknown who is new to the forum, and behind a whole bunch of others in any case.

FYI, most (all?) of the current IHOF vultures are current owners who just take on another identity to be a vulture. I know for a fact that you could easily get very high on that list, if not up to #1. That's good feedback for us to know as a league, though. Now that you mention it, it probably does look like there are several non-owners contributing a good bit. That was true in the recent past, but we just had three teams go to new ownership. I don't know who all of our writers are, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that all are current participants.

On another note, you'd probably be surprised at how quickly you get to know your entire team, and who the stars are across the league in a fictional league, especially in a very active league. Heck, there was a nearly-two-hour call-in style radio season preview done for IHOF's most recent season. I burned that puppy to two CDs and listened to it during my commute for a week or so, so I certainly knew the league by then. ;) I'm one of the worst in the IHOF at knowing my own players' names, and I think I named 35-40 off the top of my head when we had a thread asking people to see if they could do that, and I know what nearly all of their bar ratings look like, too. I'm sure that with Solevision, the process of learning stars will be even faster.

[Narcizo]

Leagues like IHOF seem to draw a lot of hostility that I really don't understand. If you don't like the fact that it is an invite only league then just ignore it. Nobody's making you go there. I'm forever baffled by the people who turn up there ask where the waiting list is and then get shirty when they're told that there isn't one.

Nobody says "You have to do some press articles and contribute to the forum in order to get in". But in their position who are you going to take - someone who claims that they're an active owner and will contribute a lot or someone who has shown that they've taken the time to learn the players and have already contributed to the league. They want to keep the league active, turn-over down and participation high so really it's a no-brainer.

Personally I've been following IHOF for over a year and I probably know more players there than I do real-life NFL players. I haven't been at all active until recently but the sheer amount of work that owners and VPI have put into it makes it an interesting place to follow even if you don't own FOF and have no interest in playing in the league.

PS please can I be the next owner now. Pretty please.

[Joe]

jimmy stamps?

[Narcizo]

Ha! Ballsed that one up for Joe.

[Joe]

Nothing against the WOOF or IHOF, but I do prefer having real names in my leagues. I find it easier to pick up who's who.


Also easier to overvalue your players:)

[Ben E Lou]

Leagues like IHOF seem to draw a lot of hostility that I really don't understand. If you don't like the fact that it is an invite only league then just ignore it. Nobody's making you go there. I'm forever baffled by the people who turn up there ask where the waiting list is and then get shirty when they're told that there isn't one. FWIW, I didn't detect any hostility in this particular thread, just a bit of understandable frustration that it would take a pre-investment of time and energy to get in, without knowing for sure when that investment will pay off.

Nobody says "You have to do some press articles and contribute to the forum in order to get in". But in their position who are you going to take - someone who claims that they're an active owner and will contribute a lot or someone who has shown that they've taken the time to learn the players and have already contributed to the league. They want to keep the league active, turn-over down and participation high so really it's a no-brainer.Well-said.

Personally I've been following IHOF for over a year and I probably know more players there than I do real-life NFL players. I haven't been at all active until recently but the sheer amount of work that owners and VPI have put into it makes it an interesting place to follow even if you don't own FOF and have no interest in playing in the league.

PS please can I be the next owner now. Pretty please.I saw you drop that David Conti reference over at WOOF. ;)

[Hammer]

FYI, most (all?) of the current IHOF vultures are current owners who just take on another identity to be a vulture.

I see, that makes things clearer. I can see both sides of the coin really with regards to no waiting list. Obviously you want to keep the high level of participation, and for that reason you need to be sure of who you are letting into the league. Its a waste of all the hard work if you get some of these half assed GMs.

On the other hand as a potential GM, its how long is a piece of string syndrome. With a waiting list you know how far you are from getting into the league. With the other system, you do not. Some of the "outsiders" who are not in the FOFC clique may feel they are being passed over due to favouritism. Putting time in getting to know the league, for all they know they will never get in. I'm already thinking of approaching a couple of friends and getting them to give me a leg up - P.M. the commish. Deep down though I have my doubts that its really fair to those who don't have connections in high places ;) At the end of the day I guess the guys at the top who put all the hard work in deserve to run the leagues as they see fit.

I guess you have convinced me Skydog, that becoming a vulture may be worth it, if it gives access to leagues with such high participation rates. Perhaps your also right about fictional players, I guess I will take your word for it. I guess the thing about being a vulture is that your proving you have the time to contribute to the league, and "earning" a place.

[Ben E Lou]

On the other hand as a potential GM, its how long is a piece of string syndrome. With a waiting list you know how far you are from getting into the league. With the other system, you do not. Some of the "outsiders" who are not in the FOFC clique may feel they are being passed over due to favouritism. I 100% understand where you're coming from there. It's an issue we've discussed as owners.

To dispel one IHOF myth, though, the "FOFC clique" thing isn't as big a factor as people perceive any longer. Yes, IHOF (like WOOF) was started via PMs of people who had history together. However, several invitations have been issued to owners who had very little FOFC history, and some to people who weren't even members of FOFC when IHOF was founded. For example, Northwood_DK joined FOFC only a couple of weeks or so before the announcement of FOF2K4, and still would probably be considered a relative "unknown" here. However, when a team came open this year, he was a very, very easy #1 choice because of the way he had recently ramped up his participation at IHOF. He'd probably be a great person to get an opinion from, because he contributed a lot before he got a team, and it seemed like he was having fun even at that point. He'd probably be a big help in telling you how he was able to get into enjoying a league as a non-player.

That being said, odds are that there will be more vacancies in WOOF soon than in IHOF, and they'll be ending the respective seasons at roughly the same time. Based on where both league are right now, I'm guessing that IHOF will finish the current season roughly two weeks before WOOF does.

[Hammer]

Thanks for the guidance, it really is much appreciated.

As I said previously, the GEFL is really the league that has me looking over each and every roster with interest. The history and current state of play really do it for me as I grew up with 80's ball. So I feel that being a vulture there may be somewhat more "natural" for me. The added bonus is that I do have a friend who is really struggling with a team over there, so perhaps if the commish allows I will take something of an assistant or co-ordinator role with the hope of getting a full time GM job after I've proved my commitment.

I will be keeping an eye on IHOF. I am particularly interested by that stud red flag RB in the draft - where he will go and how he will pan out.

[Ben E Lou]

I will be keeping an eye on IHOF.I would strongly recommend, then, downloading a league file from week 1 2012 (FOF2K4), and downloading the 2012 season preview "radio show." The first hour or so is mostly team-specific stuff, but that last 20-30 minutes of Part 2 is an overall league preview. I'd listen to that section, and follow along looking at the rosters. I'd think it would give you a strong sense of the league to start with. The league files can be found at the front page, and the radio show can be found in this thread:

http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7567

[fofgamer]

I would strongly recommend, then, downloading a league file from week 1 2012 (FOF2K4), and downloading the 2012 season preview "radio show." The first hour or so is mostly team-specific stuff, but that last 20-30 minutes of Part 2 is an overall league preview. I'd listen to that section, and follow along looking at the rosters. I'd think it would give you a strong sense of the league to start with. The league files can be found at the front page, and the radio show can be found in this thread:

http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7567

Just curious...

How did the radio show work? Was it someone with a mic hooked up to their computer talking over some kind of IM network or was it more like a streaming radio station? I'm really impressed that you guys have that kind of excitement within your league!

[Ben E Lou]

Just curious...

How did the radio show work? Was it someone with a mic hooked up to their computer talking over some kind of IM network or was it more like a streaming radio station? I'm really impressed that you guys have that kind of excitement within your league!You'd have to ask cthomer for all the details, and he's leaving today for Japan for a month. Others in IHOF may be able to confirm, but I get the impression he was using professional equipment. I was one of the "guests" on the show. They called me on my cell phone and asked questions, and recorded our conversation. It really did sound like a radio show.

[Hammer]

What fofgamer said, awesome. I'd love to get involved with a presentation like that. Must have been a lot of fun for everyone involved, and adds a lot to the league. Hopefully your setting the standard for other leagues to follow.

Particularly interesting to flick between the teams as the broadcast progresses, backs up the audio nicely. How long did it take, must have been a lot of time invested?

[Kodos]

cthomer5000, VPI97, Wade Moore, cuervo and a host of others pour a ton of effort into making IHOF the most immersive FOF league on the web. I can't tell you how much time they spend, only that it must be many, many hours. It really is a great experience, and it is easier to get in than I think a lot of folks realize. Basically, if you show a genuine interest and a willingness to contribute upfront, the work will pay off as long as your name isn't Hell Atlantic or coolroy.

[Cuckoo]

By all accounts, the NAFL is a solid, competitive league, but it averages under 30 posts per day. Again, no knock on the league, but clearly the participation level is nowhere near that of IHOF.


I blame Jeeber...

If he just posted a fraction on our board of what he seems to on everyone else's, we'd be right there. :D

We have several longtime GMs in NAFL that export frequently and are intensely involved in trade discussions but rarely if ever post. It's weird, and sometimes it's a tad irritating, particularly when we have a topic that requires league-wide contribution.

There are several regular press contributors as well, but it seems to come in waves. We'll have many writing press pieces at once, and then they'll go quiet for a couple of weeks.

All of that said, I think we're one of the better leagues around as far as participation.

[Mike Lowe]

I am a long-time MP leaguer. I've commished a number of leagues, some of which are still going strong. I do not have the time to commish any longer but am looking to get into a league in which the GMs are as interested and active as myself. I agree that this is vital and I'm always willing to do my part.

Skydog, do you have any room in either the IHOF or the new one? I'd be interested.

[Dutch]

I am a long-time MP leaguer. I've commished a number of leagues, some of which are still going strong. I do not have the time to commish any longer but am looking to get into a league in which the GMs are as interested and active as myself. I agree that this is vital and I'm always willing to do my part.

Skydog, do you have any room in either the IHOF or the new one? I'd be interested.

...grrr...