This is the Type of thing I want Sport Sims to capture

[Fritz]

From ESPN

New England grants receiver's request for release

Unable to pick up on the Patriots' offense in his only season with the team, wide receiver Donald Hayes this week will lose his hold on a roster spot when New England releases the five-year veteran.

The move, likely to come Thursday when teams are permitted to begin making offseason roster adjustments, will come after failed discussions between Hayes and the Patriots that would have resulted in a dramatic salary reduction. Hayes and agent Rick Smith requested a release, rather than accept a deep pay cut, and the Patriots have said they will comply.

Hayes, 27, was arguably the highest-profile veteran signed by New England last spring following its Super Bowl XXXVI victory. He was supposed to add a physical dimension to an undersized wide receiver corps and perhaps give the Patriots a vertical threat, but instead was a disappointment.

The former Carolina Panthers starter appeared in just 12 games, starting only one, and had 12 catches for 133 yards and two touchdowns. In his final two seasons in Carolina, he had 118 receptions, 1,523 yards and five scores.

Hayes had only one catch in the final 10 games of the season and didn't even dress for three of them.

The Patriots will save $1.53 million on their 2003 salary cap by releasing Hayes, who was scheduled to earn a $1.125 million base salary. He was due a roster bonus of $350,000 on March 1 and had an offseason workout bonus of $55,040.

New England must still count $600,000, or one-half of the $1.2 million signing bonus it paid Hayes last spring, against this year's cap total.

[INDalltheway]

I also would love to see that in a game. I think that is an area where Tournament Dreams could take a major step forward.

[Blackadar]

CM has that kind of factor

[INDalltheway]

The thing is I can't get into that game. It might be because I have only played the demo. I would love to get into it, but it just doesn't seem for me.

[daedalus]

There's no game that works for EVERYONE.

I mean, I'm sure there exist a Godless heathen out there somewhere who doesn't *gasp* like Torment. :)

However, regardless of whether you like CM or not or whether or not the concept of playing a game that deal with soccer severely agitate your gag reflex, it is possible to accept that the concept Fritz mentions - to an extent - exists in CM. (Probably in SaaP, too, but I don't play that game.)

Thus, it isn't inconceivable (I keep using that word, I don't think it means what I think it means) that it may soon creep into other sims. Hopefully sooner than later.

<font size=-2>Edit: because I can express a coherent thought. Honest, I can.</font>

[ColtCrazy]

I don't think its whether you like CM, I think its whether you are willing to get into a game that involves soccer. I have yet to hear someone who doesn't like the game.
I agree, that type of thing is in CM, but it would be nice to see that in football or any other sport. Something where a guy just doesn't fit in, that would be interesting.

[JeeberD]

Can non-soccer fans really get into CM? I've never really checked it out despite all the great things I've heard about it simply because I have no interest in soccer at all.

[Fritz]

Many sports games are stat based. While that can be good for producing the right numbers, it can be hollow.

[RoyalTen]

I have heard many great things about CM. I never went to the website or looked up any info on it. I just dont see myself getting in to soccer. I hate the sport, hell i dont even consider it a sport. But i really am a sucker for sport sims, is it really that good?

[Qwikshot]

Originally posted by JeeberD
Can non-soccer fans really get into CM? I've never really checked it out despite all the great things I've heard about it simply because I have no interest in soccer at all.

You can. I wasn't big into soccer either, but I can admit there is so much potential in these games, and they're so well made. You make your team from scratch if you work in the lower leagues, hunting and sifting for those great potentials, and gathering up the broken heros of the premier league that are left for one more bout.

You care for these players that support you, you spurn those that reject you (after multiple proposals). You feel for the guys that no longer fit but are intensely loyal...

The new game should also allow for better visuals of how your players are really doing...

I love it, I'm saving up and I'm going to wait after the initial rush...but it will be in my hands...

Wait for the demo, should be out the 28th of Feb, you get to play half a season...

[The_herd]

I've watched a total of about 10 minutes of soccer in my life, and I'm addicted to hattrick and love the CM series. I'm a stat guy who likes RPGs, so I think I would like a water polo game if it had these elements.

[JeeberD]

Cool, I think I'll give it a shot when the demo comes out. Thanks!

[samifan24]

As a note, I'm sure most of you know this but for the newbies:

With the CM4 demo, as with past CM demos, you can continue your demo career with the complete game.

Just thought I'd pass that along to anyone who was hesitant about checking out the CM4 demo b/c it didn't offer enough of a glimpse into "whether or not they'd like the game."

[Qwikshot]

Originally posted by JeeberD
Cool, I think I'll give it a shot when the demo comes out. Thanks!

Plus you can speed up the matches, it is the first game where I actually don't speed through the games, but they are resolved quickly, and you can get a feel for what is going on....it's a great game, very deep, and yes, you may and will get frustrated, but pop it in again, try a different team, a new tactic, and you may just get hooked...

[Qwikshot]

dola,

the coolest part is the massive variety, want to play a U.S. team, go ahead, want to play an English team, pick a level, and go for it, Spain, Holland, Italy, Greece, Japan, all there, Brazil, Australia, Denmark, Sweden, Russia...you get frustrated with one league, or bored, try another, or you can mask the real players, but what I find is so cool, is that being a non soccer follower, I can't tell who is good anyone...but like I said, the demo should be out the 28th.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by JeeberD
Can non-soccer fans really get into CM? I've never really checked it out despite all the great things I've heard about it simply because I have no interest in soccer at all. I've mentioned it before. I found it to be a deep and well-written piece of software. The problem was that the actual games were utterly meaningless to me.

[SplitPersonality1]

Originally posted by The_herd
I'm a stat guy who likes RPGs, so I think I would like a water polo game if it had these elements.

Are you my long-lost twin? :D

[daedalus]

I don't much care for soccer. Actually, I don't like soccer. I did managed to force myself to watch much of WC (to see "my" players) and I did watch the first half of the US-Iceland game the other day. I still can't say I like it.

I love CM. I like hattrick a whole lot. I don't really know what they mean for other folks but, to me, they're strategy games with RPG elements in them. Those are my type of games. I like 'em. [But, then, I also consider FOF to be in the same category of games.] Screw soccer.

Many sports games are stat based. While that can be good for producing the right numbers, it can be hollow.
I'm not sure if it's what you mean but, if you mean that you feel that ratings associated with the players takes away from your experience, have you tried SaaP? I haven't played it much beyond an old demo but it's not ratings-based (at least what's shown to the player) and I've been told it's a darn solid game.

Well, y'know, at least it's what Tris said. :)

[daedalus]

Originally posted by SplitPersonality1
Are you my long-lost twin? :D

Or your long-lost Personality?

[Mac Howard]

>Many sports games are stat based. While that can be good for producing the right numbers, it can be hollow.

I think one reason why the soccer "management" game has such a wide appeal is because it does have something like your first post included - not the full description but certainly the sort of events mentioned there.

The smg is much more of a role playing game than a stats game - one reason being that soccer in the real world has very few stats - and I think with each new release they move further in a role playing direction. That's certainly my own direction and I'll be very surprised indeed if CM4 doesn't build on its current level of "atmosphere" in this way as it's a very popular part of the game.

[Anrhydeddu]

I would say the same thing with football and baseball. While those sports have mountains of data, the news is dominated by the more RPG elements. Take a look at what's going on with Emmitt right now or similarly, the interaction between Jones/Parcels or Tampa Bay's Coach/GM agonies last season at this time. I am still surprised that more of front office elements beyond the stats (like with CM which I may look at) have not been included.

[rexalllsc]

Yep. One think I would add to Tourney Dreams is more recruiting depth. Basically, you need to work an angle with kids...either you develop their game, the college life (cool campus, good academics), get them ready for the NBA, promise them early PT...and if they don't get it, or aren't happy, they may transfer...crap like that.