Alright Boyzzzz Here We Go!: DDS Basketball Edition

[DaddyTorgo]

DLing now

[DaddyTorgo]

installed. loading up

[Galaril]

95% DL. the download is really not busy at all or they have alot of bandwidth set up for the release.

[DaddyTorgo]

FYI guys...the game ships with real player rosters. in case anyone is waiting on that.

[Emiliano]

84% for me.

[amdaily]

Stuck at the summer league option, I don't see how to send players there and it won't let me advance :(

[amdaily]

Stuck at the summer league option, I don't see how to send players there and it won't let me advance :(

Got it, liking everything so far ;)

[DaddyTorgo]

clicking on a player under "future" gives you a crash (looks like only if you do it before the college season starts and they have stats)

[Izulde]

Stuck at the summer league option, I don't see how to send players there and it won't let me advance :(

You can only invite young guys, rookies, 2nd year players.

When you go to your roster screen, if you click on a rookie or 2nd year player, if you look up at the top of the roster, you'll see in the row of buttons an available button that says Invite.

Click on that and wala, he's invited to summer league.

[Gary Gorski]

You can only invite young guys, rookies, 2nd year players.

When you go to your roster screen, if you click on a rookie or 2nd year player, if you look up at the top of the roster, you'll see in the row of buttons an available button that says Invite.

Click on that and wala, he's invited to summer league.

Just to further this - AFTER you do this then click the white button in the top bar that says "invite players" - you'll be taken to a mini-draft of all the guys who are free agents and willing to play some summer ball so you can grab them for the summer games. They are never signed to a contract and will be in the FA pool for you to sign after the summer league is over but its a way to get some stats on a guy or two you might think of picking up (and maybe stashing in the d-league)

[amdaily]

The FA screen and coach screen still sort by first name. Any chance of getting that changed in the future, Gary?

[Gary Gorski]

clicking on a player under "future" gives you a crash (looks like only if you do it before the college season starts and they have stats)


what was the date of the season when you got this crash?

[Gary Gorski]

The FA screen and coach screen still sort by first name. Any chance of getting that changed in the future, Gary?

sure, there will be patches so I could make that change. Im sure there will be good suggestions and areas people want to see more in depth so I can certainly make changes as we go along.

[DaddyTorgo]

what was the date of the season when you got this crash?

it was the first thing i did. hadn't advanced a day at all, was just poking at buttons.

[Sublime 2]

it was the first thing i did. hadn't advanced a day at all, was just poking at buttons.

Same thing for me. RTE '9' I think.

[Coffee Warlord]

Download is exceptionally fast. Good to hear the rosters are using real names, too!

[Coffee Warlord]

Btw. As usual, congrats on the release and all, Gary (and the rest of the crew).

Unless it makes my computer explode. :)

[amdaily]

Another suggestion: when you call the coach, you should be able to specify what starting position a player is playing in. Lebron James is playing PG for the Cavs :(

I had this problem with TPB too, the AI would move someone ideally suited at PF to SF just because the backup PF was slightly better than the starting SF (I think that makes sense ;))

[jbergey22]

So far very impressed, I am currently running the opening draft with real players. Love the depth of the scouting reports:) Well done Gary! I also got a crash right away, I was clicking around in the office I believe the newspaper before I had simmed a day and got a run time crash. Reloaded and tried again and it was fine...

[amdaily]

Also, the stats page on the roster screen is the only one not to have player positions listed on it.

[Brian Swartz]

amdaily: who do you think on the Cavs should be starting at PG instead of LeBron? Any suggestions along this line can be considered to improve the logic if you think it can be made better.

[Gary Gorski]

it was the first thing i did. hadn't advanced a day at all, was just poking at buttons.

Thanks DT - found and fixed for first patch :)

[Danny]

clicking team history also gives a crash at the opening of a career.

[amdaily]

amdaily: who do you think on the Cavs should be starting at PG instead of LeBron? Any suggestions along this line can be considered to improve the logic if you think it can be made better.

C'mon, we all know the Cavs are no option at PG ;)

I'm not trying to nit pick about specific real life players not being slotted where they should be, I just think the AI should be less willing to start players out of their default position. In addition to Lebron being moved, my starting SF is a PF. Granted he can play the role, but the whole lineup seems to have been moved around too arbitraily.

It was a pretty big problem in TPB as well. Maybe a slider in the options as to how willing the AI should be to start players outside of their primary position.

[Fouts]

Bug: clicking on OK without changing team name of Dev League causes RTE '91'.

[Coffee Warlord]

Was going through the draft, hit the 'offer trade' button. Click elsewhere on the screen anywhere outside the trade window, it changes focus back to the draft board, and doesn't allow you to get back into the trading window. Clicking the 'offer trade' after that does nothing.

About to try and repeat this, stand by.

Edit: Repeatable.

[Brian Swartz]

Fouts: what screen are you getting that error on?

[Barkeep49]

Is there a way to start after the draft? I have Tyson Chandler on my team and would very much like to dump him.

[Coffee Warlord]

Is there a way to start after the draft? I have Tyson Chandler on my team and would very much like to dump him.

Heh, you too, eh? :)

[Fouts]

Fouts: what screen are you getting that error on?

User creatino - step 3 of 4. I picked a dev league team, and then clicked OK, before realizing it was only for changing the team's name. Crashed. Did it multiple times to make sure.

Also, if you change a Dev teams name, and then back up to step 1 of 4, when you go back the name is back to the original and doesn't allow you to change it again. I had to go back to main menu and start again.

Both of those in my first 5 minutes with the trial. :confused:

[Gary Gorski]

C'mon, we all know the Cavs are no option at PG ;)

I'm not trying to nit pick about specific real life players not being slotted where they should be, I just think the AI should be less willing to start players out of their default position. In addition to Lebron being moved, my starting SF is a PF. Granted he can play the role, but the whole lineup seems to have been moved around too arbitraily.

It was a pretty big problem in TPB as well. Maybe a slider in the options as to how willing the AI should be to start players outside of their primary position.

Well its not really about real life players either - the AI looks at what you have and determines the best option. For example with LeBron - why start someone like Eric Snow because LeBron is not listed as a PG when he's the best option there? If he has the best "PG skillset" then why not play him there?

As for the PF at SF that depends on the situation. If its a 6'10 290lb PF then I'm not so sure that's a good move but if you've got a Garnett or Nowitzki and another decent PF to start then why not move him over to the 3 spot? Wouldn't you rather have better players in the lineup if at all possible?

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

Ill probably make this purchase when the mods are released and the kinks are worked out.

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

Gary im not sure what Lebron's default defensive ratings are but he does not have the lateral quickness to guard many NBA point guards.

[Gary Gorski]

Gary im not sure what Lebron's default defensive ratings are but he does not have the lateral quickness to guard many NBA point guards.

Granted but the starting positions are mainly for offense. The AI does evaluate matchups during the course of the game and will switch them if a more favorable matchup is there. I can't say if it switches LeBron off to the 2 or 3 and puts Hughes on their PG or not though but for the sake of the starting lineup its really more an offensive evaluation than defensive.

[Brian Swartz]

if you change a Dev teams name, and then back up to step 1 of 4, when you go back the name is back to the original and doesn't allow you to change it again. I had to go back to main menu and start again.

Noted, thanks.

The other error I cannot repeat after several attempts. Is anyone else getting this?

[Coffee Warlord]

And more draft oddity.

Go to check with Portland (who supposedly has the #4 overall), and in their trade screen, they aren't showing they have a 1st round pick at all.

[DaddyTorgo]

Tip: It seems so far as I can tell, if you're playing as GM, the only way to watch a game as it happens is to use your lil pda to select that game, otherwise it defaults to simming through if you press the "play/sim" button up top

[Gary Gorski]

Tip: It seems so far as I can tell, if you're playing as GM, the only way to watch a game as it happens is to use your lil pda to select that game, otherwise it defaults to simming through if you press the "play/sim" button up top

Yes, that is correct - or you can click on the TV after games are simmed and rewatch any one you want - its just that you can know the outcome of those ahead of time :)

[jbergey22]

Ill probably make this purchase when the mods are released and the kinks are worked out.

It comes with real players and Gary patches his games faster then any developer I have seen. It doenst appear to have many "kinks" to work out FYI

[Fouts]

Noted, thanks.

The other error I cannot repeat after several attempts. Is anyone else getting this?

I forgot to mention - click on a team name (dev league), then it shows up in the boxes - click OK without changing the team name. That resulted in RTE 91, repeatable for me.

[Brian Swartz]

Yep, that's what I did. Did you change anything else before that in setup? I'd really like to track this down so we can get it fixed ASAP.

[DaddyTorgo]

is the trading block functional? if we place a player there will we get offers for him?

[Fouts]

Yep, that's what I did. Did you change anything else before that in setup? I'd really like to track this down so we can get it fixed ASAP.

Went back and tried again. Doesn't happen now. The first time I didn't change anything. This time I had to change the save name because I was using MNL already. So either it disappears because I started a game, or it only happens with the initial MNL save name.

[Brian Swartz]

yes the trading block is functional. Whether you get offers for the player depends on if anyone wants them. Put a cruddy guy up there with a six-year, $12M contract and no, you probably won't :).

[DaddyTorgo]

yes the trading block is functional. Whether you get offers for the player depends on if anyone wants them. Put a cruddy guy up there with a six-year, $12M contract and no, you probably won't :).

damm...so no one will offer for raef la frentz?

haha

i just asked cuz in the last version it wasn't

[Brian Swartz]

Actually, it worked the same way in the last version.

[DaddyTorgo]

oh. whoops. then i lie.

[Brian Swartz]

Tis ok. Let me be more specific. Trading block encourages offers, it doesn't guarantee them. I had guys on the block in the last version for 2 years with no offers but that was because nobody wanted them. If you think you aren't getting offers and you should be, feel free to squawk about it because it's always possible it could be improved :).

[Galaril]

Well, I will keep the tradition of holding off til the second page of the thread before giving any real impressions but............. I went through the inital draft with the real players roster that came with it and all I can say is awesome! I only got through to the draft becuz I spent 3 hours on the draft and two of that was watching and reading all the comments on each choice. The draft looks to be all and more so far than was promised. I checked and of the 60 picks in the draft only 5-6 were what would be called questionable selections for that pick and round. in the first round there was only 1 real stretch and that wasn't until the 28th pick! the others were in the 2nd round and weren't that bad so the draft AI looks very solid. The comments by the draft show crew all make sense and match with the players being talked about.Great job.

[Coffee Warlord]

I felt pretty damn cool pulling the trigger on a draft day trade last night.

Ben Gordon and the 1(2) for Emeka Okafor and the 1(5). Added fun for us, Brandon Roy was available still at the #5, and lo and behold, there's a good sized SG for Da Bulls.

[Barkeep49]

I felt pretty damn cool pulling the trigger on a draft day trade last night.

Ben Gordon and the 1(2) for Emeka Okafor and the 1(5). Added fun for us, Brandon Roy was available still at the #5, and lo and behold, there's a good sized SG for Da Bulls.
How'd you get that 1(2)?

[Coffee Warlord]

How'd you get that 1(2)?

Rigged it. Just went into Commish mode and forced the Knicks to give me their pick, since it was rightfully ours.

[Ramzavail]

LOL

[DaddyTorgo]

my rebuilding of the celts is going according to plan. scored adam morrison in the first draft @ #7 (it was 7 right?). then hit the lottery right with my 3% chance and got the #1 pick the next year and picked up a dynamite german pg. year 3 I picked up a couple more decent bigmen in the draft. no fa's or trades yet. details when I get home.

anyone want a very-used raef la frentz? lol

[RedKingGold]

So wait...you can start before the draft?

[Brian Swartz]

Default starting point is at the beginning of the offseason, so yes.

[RedKingGold]

Default starting point is at the beginning of the offseason, so yes.

Wow, I wish more sports games did that. I'm going to purchase, but I have a rule that except for any game put out by Jim, I usually wait til the first patch.

[SirFozzie]

I had about six crashes (Mostly RTE's, but one "has caused an error and will be closed" message) last night in my quick run through at Various points, but I didn't write em down. A bit (ok a LOT) discouraging, but I'll try to see if any of em happen tonight

[Mountain]

Where do you find the subsitution matrix and setting the depth chart for when you play a game. I am currently in the summer league

[Izulde]

Where do you find the subsitution matrix and setting the depth chart for when you play a game. I am currently in the summer league

left hand side of the roster screen. Look at the tabs above the team logo and there should be one that says Depth Chart. Click on it.

[JPhillips]

I just got a RTE 91 after the lottery selections.

[DaddyTorgo]

ok...i'll just put this out there:

rookie options confuse me. and sometimes i pick them up at the wrong time and end up with gaps in guys contract years and then they become FA's.

is there a better way, a way to make this "idiot proof" easily Gary?

[Groundhog]

I played around with the demo last night for a few hours, and overall I'm impressed and had a lot of fun. The offseason is greatly improved.

Things I like:
* The draft. Even though the comments got a little stale after a few drafts, it is fun and is easily the best draft yet in a text sim IMO.
* Summer leagues. I love being able to assign rookies and FAs.
* DLeague. Another great feature. I'm a little puzzled as to why you can't assign players during the "dleague assign" portion of the offseason however, and it appears that the CPU can, because some dleague teams had players prior to the dleague draft.
* Trading. Seemed pretty decent to me. I made a few trades and wasn't able to rip the AI off noticeably.

Things I don't like:
* I got a RTE immediately after exiting the draft. I reloaded and re-ran and didn't get it again, so no idea what triggered it.
* If you go in to the trade screen during the draft, then click on the background behind the trade screen it sends the trade screen to the background and you can't select it or bring it back again by clicking trade.

I'll be playing around with it some more tonight.

[DaddyTorgo]

the only problem is i'm really bad at this game.

[Sublime 2]

the only problem is i'm really bad at this game.

C'mon, you haven't got the C's to Banner 17 yet?

[miami_fan]

the only problem is i'm really bad at this game.

That's okay. Neither is Danny Ainge.:D

[DaddyTorgo]

C'mon, you haven't got the C's to Banner 17 yet?

actually i screwed up that save with the rookie options thing and lost a couple players i wanted to keep so i started a new save. and in 08 I have gotten them to 2nd place in the division at the all star break with just the addition of adam morrison (again). so i guess that's good. i just can never seem to get over the hump with it.

[JPhillips]

Damn, another RTE this time trying to click out of FA.

Anyone playing this should save very often.

[Tim Tellean]

It looks like alot of these errors may be coming from the 32 team league setup. Let us know.

[JPhillips]

For me the first was with a 32 team league. The second was with a thirty team league.

btw- The second RTE was I believe 13? It said something about "mismatch".

[SirFozzie]

Another RTE with the 30 Team League. RTE 91

[Groundhog]

This is far too buggy. I'll not be playing until at least 1 patch is released. Really wish I had saved the $35 for when the game actually works. Don't care if you're an indy developer or not, a bug in the set-up screens that happens every time is inexcusable upon release of the game.

I'm always surprised when I see posts like this. I'm far more shocked when I buy a game on release day and it doesn't crash me to desktop at least three times within the first hour or so. Indie games are probably more prone due to far smaller testing teams, but it's hardly much better with the bigger gaming companies. I mean, Madden was released with fatigue not working... you would imagine that SOMEONE on their presumably quite large testing team would pick that up, considering the gamers noticed it on day 1.

[DaddyTorgo]

This is far too buggy. I'll not be playing until at least 1 patch is released. Really wish I had saved the $35 for when the game actually works. Don't care if you're an indy developer or not, a bug in the set-up screens that happens every time is inexcusable upon release of the game.

seriously. relax and know that Gary is quite good about quickly and effectively patching his games and it will be fixed.

you ought to have expected the game to crash on you at least a little though. it happens. If it gets you that up-in-arms then you probably shouldn't buy any games until they've been out at least a month.

[SirFozzie]

a little? Way too much.

[Buccaneer]

I'm always surprised when I see posts like this. I'm far more shocked when I buy a game on release day and it doesn't crash me to desktop at least three times within the first hour or so. Indie games are probably more prone due to far smaller testing teams, but it's hardly much better with the bigger gaming companies. I mean, Madden was released with fatigue not working... you would imagine that SOMEONE on their presumably quite large testing team would pick that up, considering the gamers noticed it on day 1.

But that's two different things. As a developer, I manage two lists upon release: known problems that will be fixed after release and unknown problems that come up after user installations. I suspect with games, most fall into the former category (unless you run into PC configuration issues like different flavors of directx or drivers). Sometimes, though, I have little difficulty in believing that CTD from normal control functions would have been listed as known problems since testers would certainly have seen the same thing, assuming proper installation and registering.

[DaddyTorgo]

*cough*

Fantasy Draft: 62-60

Course that might have to do with my starting lineup: Ridnour, LeBron, Redd, Adam Morrison, Jeff Foster

[SirFozzie]

Three more crashes at various points.

This one's going back on the shelf till patches come out.

[Brian Swartz]

rookie options confuse me. and sometimes i pick them up at the wrong time and end up with gaps in guys contract years and then they become FA's.

I haven't seen the gap in contract years -- any idea when you are using the option to make this happen?

As to the other errors a number of them have been fixed already since release and we will have a first patch out as soon as possible. In the meantime the more specific reports we get on what is causing them, the faster the fixes will be.

[SirFozzie]

Brian: I think it means it's not really intuitive on how Rookie Option Years work.

Maybe it would be easier to, sometime in the week before the deadline to use the Rookie Option, they got an email that stated "The following players will be in the final year of their contract unless you use the "Rookie Option" on them now:" and listed the players.

[DaddyTorgo]

Brian: I think it means it's not really intuitive on how Rookie Option Years work.

Maybe it would be easier to, sometime in the week before the deadline to use the Rookie Option, they got an email that stated "The following players will be in the final year of their contract unless you use the "Rookie Option" on them now:" and listed the players.

that would be easier foz, yeah

brian: i'm not sure. i'd hafta go back and try to figure out exactly how i do that, but i definately had it happen multiple times.

[JPhillips]

So this is weird.

I am playing the opening draft and trying to trade down. When I go to the trade screen I have available the 2006 second round pick and first and second round picks for 2007 and 2008. No 2006 first round pick anywhere to be seen.

CPU teams, though, have first and second round picks for 2007, 2008 and 2009. No picks listed for 2006 at all.

On a side note. Can there be a better way to see draft order on draft day? The logos are very small and on the trade screen number of pick isn't listed. It's very frustrating to have to wait until the bottom cycles back through the list.

[John Galt]

On a side note. Can there be a better way to see draft order on draft day? The logos are very small and on the trade screen number of pick isn't listed. It's very frustrating to have to wait until the bottom cycles back through the list.

I strongly agree with this.

I played the demo last night. I didn't have any crashes which was good. However, things were a little "slow" and "sticky" going between certain menus (ie loading the team roster screen).

One thing that I didn't like was the decision to have a ratings scroll bar, but to include the "name" field in the scroll. Now, to look at the ratings at the end of the scroll, I have to scroll all the way to the right, but then go back to the left to see what the player is with that rating. This is especially a problem when signing free agents because you may sort by a rating and then spend your whole time going back and forth along the scroll bar to see that name of each player.

[Bee]

I thought about downloading the demo, but with just a 3 day trial I'm going to wait until the game is patched and demo updated before jumping in. I am going to be reading along though because I think this game looks like it could be pretty solid (and if I were a bigger NBA fan I'd probably just jump in right now, bugs and all).

[joyosects]

Can I play this game in a window? I'm looking for something I can play during class.

[JPhillips]

Dammit this game is frustrating. I just got a Sorry Must Close message when I tried to click on home while the future screen was up.

I think I'm giving up until a patch. I can't get through a season without a crash.

[Coffee Warlord]

On a side note. Can there be a better way to see draft order on draft day? The logos are very small and on the trade screen number of pick isn't listed. It's very frustrating to have to wait until the bottom cycles back through the list.

Please add to this the ability to sort by position in the War Room (unless I'm blind and missed the option to do that).

[John Galt]

Please add to this the ability to sort by position in the War Room (unless I'm blind and missed the option to do that).

"

[Gary Gorski]

ok...i'll just put this out there:

rookie options confuse me. and sometimes i pick them up at the wrong time and end up with gaps in guys contract years and then they become FA's.

is there a better way, a way to make this "idiot proof" easily Gary?

I think that its not a case of picking them up at the wrong time but perhaps the initial database having some wrong information in it. Can you tell me what team you are using and who you are trying to pickup the options on. One issue is that some of the guys are initially marked as being able to have options picked up when they shouldn't be. If you can give me some specific info I can look to see if that is the case or its something else.

And I agree with the people in the thread that some of these errors seem like they should have easily been caught. Unforunately with a small beta team sometimes you get tunnel vision and focus on certain things and just assume someone else has tested it. I'm not going to blame the testers though - I'm in charge and should have paid closer attention to more specific detail. Of course some of the crashes are things we just never saw happen but some should have been caught very easily and I apologize for the frustration of getting in there and having such silly crashes. I also will reevaluate how we run our beta process and make sure to improve it for the future.

The good news is that most of them are easily fixable (especially if people send me the league files and such when they get a crash) and the game will be patched promptly as it always has been with my games. In fact there is a thread at http://www.wolverinestudios.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1881 that lists instructions for sending me files plus the things that have been fixed already.

If you want to hold off on the demo since its a timed demo or purchase until the first patch or so I think that's a fine idea. We should at least have a beta of the first patch out this weekend and there are close to a dozen or so fixes already. And as always if there are suggestions on improving features or adding things I'm open to those as well. Patches often (well at least after the first patch anyways) contain updates people ask for so if there are things I can do to improve on the game itself by all means let me know.

[JPhillips]

Seeing this from Bryan is really nice. I think you guys are much better at customer support than most text sim developers.

Thanks for your thoughts, truly. The biggest compliment you can give us is to care enough about the game to put in your input, positive or negative.

[Comey]

This is odd.

I am using the trial. I simmed out the first day of the season, in which my Celtics (with a stacked lineup) were playing the Knicks. Doc Rivers figured out a way to mismanage LeBron in the 4th quarter, and had to sit him for most of the final five minutes. As a result, we blew a ten-point lead and lost 105-100.

However, when I go back and look at the news articles, it says we won 119-115. I watched the game. We definitely lost (and earned it). But the stats and the boxscore says otherwise.

Now, when I tried to go watch it again, the game crashed, and I hadn't saved. So...I'm kind of screwed. But I will retest for this and see if this is happening elsewhere in my leagues.

-John

[Gary Gorski]

Please add to this the ability to sort by position in the War Room (unless I'm blind and missed the option to do that).

When I click on the position header it sorts for me. I also can view only the positions I want by unchecking those that I don't. These features are not working properly for you?

[Gary Gorski]

This is odd.

I am using the trial. I simmed out the first day of the season, in which my Celtics (with a stacked lineup) were playing the Knicks. Doc Rivers figured out a way to mismanage LeBron in the 4th quarter, and had to sit him for most of the final five minutes. As a result, we blew a ten-point lead and lost 105-100.

However, when I go back and look at the news articles, it says we won 119-115. I watched the game. We definitely lost (and earned it). But the stats and the boxscore says otherwise.

Now, when I tried to go watch it again, the game crashed, and I hadn't saved. So...I'm kind of screwed. But I will retest for this and see if this is happening elsewhere in my leagues.

-John


We've had some odd occurances with the news articles apparently. It was very difficult and awkward to write them in the code and there are alot of variables that it uses so its very possible that its pulling the wrong variable for the score. As long as the box score and stats agree to what you saw I'm willing to bet that its just a wrong variable being pulled

[Coffee Warlord]

When I click on the position header it sorts for me. I also can view only the positions I want by unchecking those that I don't. These features are not working properly for you?

Pardon. Not the war room. The workout screen, pre-draft. That was the one that I believe didn't have the checkboxes.

[Gary Gorski]

Pardon. Not the war room. The workout screen, pre-draft. That was the one that I believe didn't have the checkboxes.

Workout screen sorts ok by position for me as well

[JPhillips]

I don't know what's happening, but when I tried to click on free agents during the season to see the player card it's not responding. I can see the player card during the free agency period, but not during the season.

[Coffee Warlord]

Dammit, there's one that didn't have it. :)

I'll look again tonight and try and figure out wtf I'm talking about.

[John Galt]

Workout screen sorts ok by position for me as well

I'm going to have to check on this tonight because I remember not being able to sort by position on a screen I wanted to. If Coffee Warlord doesn't know, I'll try to post about it tonight.

[Galaril]

I think that its not a case of picking them up at the wrong time but perhaps the initial database having some wrong information in it. Can you tell me what team you are using and who you are trying to pickup the options on. One issue is that some of the guys are initially marked as being able to have options picked up when they shouldn't be. If you can give me some specific info I can look to see if that is the case or its something else.

And I agree with the people in the thread that some of these errors seem like they should have easily been caught. Unforunately with a small beta team sometimes you get tunnel vision and focus on certain things and just assume someone else has tested it. I'm not going to blame the testers though - I'm in charge and should have paid closer attention to more specific detail. Of course some of the crashes are things we just never saw happen but some should have been caught very easily and I apologize for the frustration of getting in there and having such silly crashes. I also will reevaluate how we run our beta process and make sure to improve it for the future.

The good news is that most of them are easily fixable (especially if people send me the league files and such when they get a crash) and the game will be patched promptly as it always has been with my games. In fact there is a thread at http://www.wolverinestudios.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1881 that lists instructions for sending me files plus the things that have been fixed already.

If you want to hold off on the demo since its a timed demo or purchase until the first patch or so I think that's a fine idea. We should at least have a beta of the first patch out this weekend and there are close to a dozen or so fixes already. And as always if there are suggestions on improving features or adding things I'm open to those as well. Patches often (well at least after the first patch anyways) contain updates people ask for so if there are things I can do to improve on the game itself by all means let me know.

Thanks Gary. This type of support is whya lot of people buy your games.IMHO along with the fact they are fun qualit yproducts. A few impatient people have voiced ther edismay at the "bugs" and error RTE stuff. Me too I had one but we should realize this is a game let's just relax and give the guya chance to patch it. I find this to be very stable overall.

[JPhillips]

You've had better luck than I have. I have crashed every time I've tried to play a year. I got to the lottery once, but it crashed there.

[Brian Swartz]

FYI most of the crashes so far have been related to the 32-team setup, which is probably why you are seeing such a difference. Once we get those cleared up you should have much smoother sailing. The lottery crash is among those already fixed for the first patch.

[JPhillips]

FYI: I've tried four careers each ending with a crash. Two were 32 team and two were 30 team.

[Eaglesfan27]

I had about six crashes (Mostly RTE's, but one "has caused an error and will be closed" message) last night in my quick run through at Various points, but I didn't write em down. A bit (ok a LOT) discouraging, but I'll try to see if any of em happen tonight


Just catching up on this thread. I was debating on buying this, during this weekend, but RTE's (particularly this many) just kill a game for me. I guess I'll wait for a few patches to read impressions at that time.

[Mountain]

Some things about playing the games out. There is not much variety in the play-by-play. I have played through about four games so far and there has not been a single walking call, double dribble, palming, etc. the only turnover messages I get would be (someone) turns the ball over, or (someone threw the ball away I have had one charging call in four games. When a player gets fouled in the act of shooting the game does not tell you who commits the foul on the shooter. I have to look at the substitution screen to find out who did it on my team and I don't know who picks up the foul on the opposing team. The last game I played I was playing against the Wizards and Brendan Haywood fouled out with 20 seconds left in the game. The game would not substitue for him even when I enabled auto-sub. I got a message saying there was someone in the game who had fouled out and needed to be replaced. I could not finish the game.

Another nice touch to enhance play-by-play would be to identfy when a team has gone on a run. Also if a player seems to be shooting hot or cold. I don't know if these things amount to immediate fixes like CTDs but some of these changes would ceratinly enhance the game experience for me.

[MizzouRah]

Just catching up on this thread. I was debating on buying this, during this weekend, but RTE's (particularly this many) just kill a game for me. I guess I'll wait for a few patches to read impressions at that time.

That's the norm for me nowdays and any game that comes out.

[CraigSca]

Some things about playing the games out. There is not much variety in the play-by-play. I have played through about four games so far and there has not been a single walking call, double dribble, palming, etc.

Wow, this IS just like the real NBA!! :D

Ok...never mind...carry on.

[path12]

Just one more suggestion for the play by play -- I really wish the text was larger there. I'm needing to squint just to read it....

[DaddyTorgo]

another question: is there a reason that i can't offer certain guys contract extensions, or can only offer extensions at certain times? is that a rule that mirrors the NBA situation? that you can't offer extensions to guys in the last year of their deals?

[MrBug708]

FYI most of the crashes so far have been related to the 32-team setup, which is probably why you are seeing such a difference. Once we get those cleared up you should have much smoother sailing. The lottery crash is among those already fixed for the first patch.

I know it's asking a lot, but getting that patch out today would be very helpful since I can't get past the first year....

[Gary Gorski]

I'm getting constant crashes and haven't run a 32 team league yet. Everything I've done has been 30 teams, 06 start date, and it's buggy as hell.

If you are getting constant crashes (for something outside renaming the dleague team which will be fixed in the 1st patch) please follow the link I posted in an earlier post in this thread and see if your crashes are on that list of fixes so far and if not then please email me your league files with the instructions on that page. Thanks

[Gary Gorski]

I know it's asking a lot, but getting that patch out today would be very helpful since I can't get past the first year....

Well the best I would be able to do would be to post a beta patch late tonight. Obviously nobody will have had time to test it but if you and some others would be interested in that I will try to get it up either late, late tonight or so its at least there in the morning for anyone who wants to try it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Gary...I can send you a savegame file if you want, but here's images of the reproduction of the "rookie option" error with a drafted player in 2009.


http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/7684/mwsnap002ds1.th.png (http://img457.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mwsnap002ds1.png)

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/3879/mwsnap003kb4.th.png (http://img457.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mwsnap003kb4.png)

(http://imageshack.us)

[Gary Gorski]

Yeah send me that save game file DT (instructions in the link above or tech support forum sticky on my site) - I'd like to see when exactly you offered him that option and how that got goofed up

[DaddyTorgo]

sure thing. sending now (just got back home). it's happened as i said, multiple times both with drafted guys and with original "nba players"

[DaddyTorgo]

what? why won't gmail let me send the zipped files? claiming there's an executable in there?!?!

[SirFozzie]

Use YouSendIt Or something similar, DT (Megaupload, etcetera)

[DaddyTorgo]

Use YouSendIt Or something similar, DT (Megaupload, etcetera)

that would be the easy solution. i'm just surprised that gmail is being a putz

[Lathum]

I get a RTE crash after the lottery as well. Does this mean I need to start a new game or is there any way around it?

[HerRealName]

The Play Editor is quite fun. I usually play as a GM but I'm going to have to try these plays out in an Exhibition game.

[Gary Gorski]

I get a RTE crash after the lottery as well. Does this mean I need to start a new game or is there any way around it?

If you're in a 32 team league then I think I've fixed that one for the first patch. I'm going to put up a beta patch either late tonight or early in the morning so we can hopefully get these out of the way and move onto some of the more rare bugs and adding new stuff into the game.

[Gary Gorski]

Just as a FYI we'll be releasing a public beta patch sometime tomorrow - Im just trying to nail down the thing with the rookie options first. If I can find it early enough I will get it in there and if not I will keep looking while the patch is being tested. Here's a list of fixes the 1.1 public beta should include

- RTE 91 when changing some d-league team names in league setup
- RTE 3021 when clicking on names on the future page before mock draft has been done
- RTE 3021 when clicking on team history in almanac before any team history is generated
- RTE 3075 when viewing a news story with a heading using an apostrophe
- RTE 13 when trying to make a trade or sign free agents and using a computer that is not running on US-English settings
- RTE 91 when trying to proceed through the lottery in a 32 team league
- RTE 91 when trying to view career leaders in almanac
- RTE 91 when trying to access the summer league games from the schedule screen when playing in a fantasy draft league (those games should not be scheduled in the first place since you skip the summer stuff in year 1 of a fantasy draft league)
- RTE 91 when trying to play out a summer league game
- RTE 9 when using a snaked order in the 32 team fantasy draft
- RTE 9 when proceeding past awards and using real player photos
- RTE when trying to retire a jersey
- fixed bug not allowing you to assign players to the d-league prior to d-league draft
- fixed bug updating team information on the left side when you click on the jersey in the office
- fixed bug of not being able to get back to trade screen from war room if you clicked off of it
- fixed but of proper year draft picks not showing up in trading from war room during draft
- tweaked AI problem causing AI teams to not fill out their sub matrix properly during summer league games
- addressed bug of AI teams not filling out their roster prior to opening day
- addressed incorrect variables being used in news stories (wrong team names, wrong WL records etc)

[Coder]

Just as a FYI we'll be releasing a public beta patch sometime tomorrow - Im just trying to nail down the thing with the rookie options first. If I can find it early enough I will get it in there and if not I will keep looking while the patch is being tested. Here's a list of fixes the 1.1 public beta should include


Sounds great.. I've already planned a Friday night purchase and this certainly doesn't change my view. :)

Playing around with the demo does generate several little RTEs, but since I haven't had enough time to really "play", I haven't been logging them. Your list is extensive enough to make me believe most of those are covered.

[Gary Gorski]

Morning update for anyone interested. The beta patch is available from this thread http://www.wolverinestudios.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1920

Again, its a beta patch at this point and the fix list is two posts above plus I think I may have a handle on the rookie option thing as well so if you're interested in a beta patch give it a shot - please note that if you download the full version of the game it is still at 1.0 so you would need to download the patch as well and it will be like this probably until Monday or so assuming the fixes are confirmed.

[MrBug708]

Thanks! I knew I woke up early for a good reason!

[Lathum]

So I have question about free agency. It seems I offer a contract, then advance to the next day and the contract offer is gone and I have to offer it again? this is quiet tedious, is it suposed to be this way?

[stevew]

So I have question about free agency. It seems I offer a contract, then advance to the next day and the contract offer is gone and I have to offer it again? this is quiet tedious, is it suposed to be this way?

That's the way it was in the last version. Basically it means they said no. Possibly could be handled a bit differently, but that's what it means anyways.

[Lathum]

dola- I have also had Daniel Gibson out for 2 years with a broken ankle. Is there anything that indicates a career ending injury? He is taking up alot of cap room :(

[Brian Swartz]

If you offer a contract and it disappears the next day, it means the player doesn't think your offer is worth considering. Offering it again won't help, you need to either offer more money or years or he's probably going to keep ignoring you.

On the injury subject, there are no career-ending injuries as such: a player with a very long-term injury may decide to retire.

[JPhillips]

I think the way free agent contracts are tracked is a major problem with the game. It's very hard to keep track of offers to players. Is there a way to at least see the list of still pending offers ala TPB?

And the coach offers need a better way of tracking also.

[Brian Swartz]

Yes. All offers still pending are in the box on the lower right, same as in TPB. Same for the coach offers(except the box is on the top center).

[MrBug708]

One thing I have noticed is that career Double Doubles and Triple Triples reset themselves each season

[Coffee Warlord]

That's the way it was in the last version. Basically it means they said no. Possibly could be handled a bit differently, but that's what it means anyways.

I'm quite surprised this wasn't changed. It was thoroughly irritating in the previous version, and still is.

[albionmoonlight]

One thing I have noticed is that career Double Doubles and Triple Triples reset themselves each season

Ah, the exceedingly rare triple-triple. Quite the performance, that.

[Brian Swartz]

To my knowlege(and I did a thorough search of the boards at GDS and WS leading up to the game being worked on) this is the first time it was ever suggested. That doesn't mean that it can't be changed, but it certainly wasn't among the remotely common suggestions from the last version.

[JPhillips]

Sorry about that. It always bugged the hell out of me and I guess I assumed someone had to have brought it up. I think a notification in the results window would be much better and seemingly simple to do.

I'd also love a notification when offers are made so that I can see how much interest there is in each free agent.

[stevew]

I'll be picking this up once it gets pretty RTE free, and I don't feel as if I need to save as frequently as possible.

[Brian Swartz]

That's more than fair, stevew.

I'd also love a notification when offers are made so that I can see how much interest there is in each free agent.

Devil's advocate here: how do you think this would play out, in terms of realism. GM calls a player's agent: "Hey, could you tell me what offers you've got in right now -- after all I don't want to overpay?"

[Eaglesfan27]

Ah, the exceedingly rare triple-triple. Quite the performance, that.


Wilt did it frequently.

[JPhillips]

Brian: I don't want to see amounts, but it's fair to see interest. We already get to see the best offer and it's perfectly reasonable to think that teams knw who's after most free agents. I can find out most offers and a general sense of price from ESPN.

[John Galt]

One other thing I would love - have the player's desired contract automatically loaded into the offer screen. It is such a pain to enter the dollars, years, and % increase every week for every player you are interested in. And when I'm doing player extensions, I almost always accept the player's desire, so it is so much easier if it is automatically entered.

[stevew]

One other thing I would love - have the player's desired contract automatically loaded into the offer screen. It is such a pain to enter the dollars, years, and % increase every week for every player you are interested in. And when I'm doing player extensions, I almost always accept the player's desire, so it is so much easier if it is automatically entered.

Yes, great idea +++

[astrosfan64]

I'm actually surprised by the bugs in this release. Gary's last 3 Basketball games have had pretty bug free releases. I know he will get these issues fixed, I'm just a bit surprised to see all these at release.

[RedKingGold]

I'm actually surprised by the bugs in this release. Gary's last 3 Basketball games have had pretty bug free releases. I know he will get these issues fixed, I'm just a bit surprised to see all these at release.

I think the increase in bugs is due more towards the complexity of new features/additions and less because of sloppy beta-testing.

[astrosfan64]

I think the increase in bugs is due more towards the complexity of new features/additions and less because of sloppy beta-testing.

My comment wasn't a shot at the beta team, it was more of an observation.

[bselig]

Game was pretty much unplayable due to crashes until I rebooted, seems fine now.

Stats seem decent enough, draft is great. Sim speed is a bit slow. Trading is pretty challenging, the AI is extremely picky. The arrows showing if a trade will go through or not seem to be almost worthless in indicating if it actually will

[JPhillips]

I ran into a new problem. I set to sim until the All Star break and turned notify for injuries off. I was stopped and so I assumed it was a trade offer. The email was lit up and when I checked there was no new mail. I deleted all the email and started again with notify injuries off. Same thing happened, but this time it was clear that the email was empty.

Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug?

[amdaily]

I tried to start a 16 team fictional league and during FA and the draft there were an extraordinary high number of 3 and 4 star rated players. Is the talent level adjusted accordingly for a smaller league size?

[JPhillips]

I noticed a huge dropoff of talent from the pre draft to the first generated draft. By the time I got to pick six in the second round all the players left were scouted by the draft folks as 1.

The stats also don't match up well for players drafted late in the lottery. I picked up a SF from Arizona who averaged 26+ points, 12+ rebounds and 7+ assists and was rated three stars from the draft folks and four by my scouts. There were a number of other players with great "college" stats that weren't rated very highly.

[Brian Swartz]

The arrows showing if a trade will go through or not seem to be almost worthless in indicating if it actually will

Any examples of this? If the arrows show the trade is in your favor, they will usually reject it, vice versa for the opposite situation. No arrows are a fairly even trade.

I set to sim until the All Star break and turned notify for injuries off. I was stopped and so I assumed it was a trade offer. The email was lit up and when I checked there was no new mail. I deleted all the email and started again with notify injuries off. Same thing happened, but this time it was clear that the email was empty.

Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug?

Recently discovered bug that is being investigated. Ditto for the talent level in small leagues.

As far as college stats on draftees -- isn't this the way it should be? It isn't like Redick and Morrison(great college stats) are generally considered to be future Hall-of-Famers. Great college stats don't mean great pro.

[bselig]

Typically the AI will reject a trade where the arrows are in their favor due to bad contracts, not giving up the best player or a young player with a lot potential, rarely due to 'weakness' at a position. It seems like the arrows indicate 'value' in the strictess sense of how the player ratings add up, whereas there is a checklist of things that can nix a trade regardless of what the value says. Most of my proposals end up being rejected despite the arrows being in the AI's favor, usually due to the AI thinking I'm not giving up a comparable piece to the best piece they're giving up. Which is perfectly fine and makes sense, but it makes the arrows of limited utility

[JPhillips]

I guess my problem with the college stats and the draft is that there are too many college studs and at least for my generated drafts nobody more than four stars in the pros. I haven't seen any pros equal to the top seven or eight players in the pre draft. I haven't played a lot of seasons, but the projected pro talent is very low. In my last draft by pick four there was no one that the draft or my scouts ranked higher than a three.

[Galaril]

Sorry about that. It always bugged the hell out of me and I guess I assumed someone had to have brought it up. I think a notification in the results window would be much better and seemingly simple to do.

I'd also love a notification when offers are made so that I can see how much interest there is in each free agent.

That's more than fair, stevew.



Devil's advocate here: how do you think this would play out, in terms of realism. GM calls a player's agent: "Hey, could you tell me what offers you've got in right now -- after all I don't want to overpay?"

Brian: I don't want to see amounts, but it's fair to see interest. We already get to see the best offer and it's perfectly reasonable to think that teams knw who's after most free agents. I can find out most offers and a general sense of price from ESPN.

One other thing I would love - have the player's desired contract automatically loaded into the offer screen. It is such a pain to enter the dollars, years, and % increase every week for every player you are interested in. And when I'm doing player extensions, I almost always accept the player's desire, so it is so much easier if it is automatically entered.

Yes, great idea +++

Here is what I have posted over at DDS:PB board:
I have come across a couple small things/ issues that I will pass onto you :

1) Draft is great only complaint is the pop-up screen when a player is selected right after the "Let's go to the commissioner" pop-up should have the little x in the upper right or a close button something so if you don't want to keep reading you can do a quick scan and close it. I found that took away slightly when watching the draft and I do watch the drafts pick by pik taking me sometimes 2 hours, but it is fun.

2) This is something I believe mentioned before with TPB 05 and also TCB, when looking at the player stats screen either at halftime or at the end of the game as well as any time you go back to the boxscore. It would be nice to have their primarly position so if they are a PG, listed right after their name. It makes it a little easier to see where teams are scoring against you inside with C and PFs or on the perimeter with the Gs. I guess next version you might put in somekind of shooting chart or map with all the shots made mapped out which would give a visual of a teams shooting tendencie.

3) This one I just noticed when I tried to go and sign a guy who was a free agent. I guess you can't click on a free agent players name in the free agent list and get their players card to come up. The only work around I found was to go to the search palyer feature and search for the player than double click on his name to get the player card.

4) I noticed that in-game when you check the 3 pointer strategy on at least late in the game , but it appeared like at anytimes teams were not following that much. I lost two games where I was down by 3 points and had the ball with over 20 seconds left but my team held the ball to the last shot, though I didn't have the hold for last shot checked and than took two point shots in close post ups to centers as opposed to kicking it out for a game tying 3 pointer? So maybe the strategies should be looked at especially the important ones like last shot, 3 pointers (the intentional foul works fine it seems).

5) I think it would be great on the contract screen for offering a contract to player when you hit minimum button it makes the minmum for the number of years you specify over to the right or lets you click each box for ayear and click minimum to fill the minimum or max for that year.

6) Last thing for now is during free agency we really need some screen to show us players who have received pending offers, i thnk. So a guy has recieved offers from "X" number of teams and the best offer is "X". Otherwise free agency seems kind of blind and pointless without some kind of info screen as it goes on.

7) I noticed a display bug when doing a kind of double switch of players. For example, I have a setup in the submatrix to have my starting point guard ("PGX ") move over to the small forward ( at the 2:00 minute mark of a quarter and bring in another player ("PGY") at the starting PG position.I see listed on the ingame lineup the first strating PG listed twice in both the PG and SF position. That stays until that player comes out of the game. So the game doesn't tarck a palyer moving over and changing positons in game in the lineup screen correctly.

[TroyF]

Is there anyway to change the owner attributes when you've started a game? The default ones are way of base for some teams. I know you can randomize, but can you tweak the defaults?

[Brian Swartz]

You should be able to do this by editing the default.dat file(recommend backing it up first) with any database program.

[TroyF]

You should be able to do this by editing the default.dat file(recommend backing it up first) with any database program.

I can do that, but it'd be nice if there would be a way to do it from the in game screens.

No biggie. Restarting a league and randomizing now.

[John Galt]

There is a bug in mid-level and low exceptions that is a pain. When I offer the mid-level exception and it is turned down, I lose the ability to offer it to another player.

I'll try to post other suggestions and bugs later today.

[Brian Swartz]

On the exceptions, we have heard that reported but it is working fine on our end repeatedly. If you have are able to repeat this and could send a save into Gary(from the point in time where you are unable to offer the exception) then we can see why that's happening.

[Young Drachma]

How far -- like, how many seasons -- have folks managed to get through? Or are we still too buggy to proceed? I want to buy it, but not if I have to wait a few more days to play. Then I'll just wait until the kinks are worked out.

[John Galt]

On the exceptions, we have heard that reported but it is working fine on our end repeatedly. If you have are able to repeat this and could send a save into Gary(from the point in time where you are unable to offer the exception) then we can see why that's happening.

I don't have a save file (and in the season I'm currently playing, Telfair accepted the exception so I didn't get to test it out). In the prior season, I was slightly under the cap, offered the mid-level to Billups who rejected it (he ended up signing a big deal with the Pistons). However, the exception was grayed out for the rest of the free agency period.

[Gary Gorski]

I don't have a save file (and in the season I'm currently playing, Telfair accepted the exception so I didn't get to test it out). In the prior season, I was slightly under the cap, offered the mid-level to Billups who rejected it (he ended up signing a big deal with the Pistons). However, the exception was grayed out for the rest of the free agency period.


What exactly was greyed out? The button to offer the mid level or the amount of year 1 of the contract? I tried the same experiment with Billups (except that I was Detroit) and every time I offered it he turned it down but I could continue to offer it - and when he signed with another team I could still offer the exception to someone else.

If you are seeing the button itself greyed out - I've yet to see that. If you are talking about the first year contract box being greyed out that is by design. It simply means you cannot change the amount of the 1st year of the exception not that you cannot offer it. So if you could clarify what you are seeing for me I would appreciate it.

[John Galt]

Other things I have noticed:

1) My draft files have had a pretty low talent level. By that I mean that by midway through the first round, there are only 1 or 2 star players and they are all pretty indistinguishable. There are usually no more than 3 of the 4 or 5 star players (one year, I had only 1). I've only done drafts total, so it could be small sample size, but it appears the first season's draft (with pre-loaded players) is much more talent rich than subsequent years.

2) As to the thing Coffee Warlord and I noticed, I realized the problem isn't that you can't sort by position. The problem is that you either 1) can't just look at one position; or 2) execute a double-sort where you could sort first by potential and then by position. The result is that I can never find out who the best available PG's are, for example, from just viewing my player evaluation screens.

3) It would be nice if the developmental league draft would run in the background if we don't want to watch it.

4) Little interface issues that make a big difference:

a) I've already mentioned the automatically filling in the player requested contract. That should extend to coaches as well.

b) On the startup screens "FirstName" and "LastName" should be highlighted so that a person types over them automatically (so you don't have to first highlight with the mouse and then begin typing). This is something that is true in other places as well (like number ratings for the GM).

c) There are inconsistencies between the button labels and the labels in your GM's office (ie "staff" v. "personnel" and "team roster" v. "players") even though the options bring you to the same screens.

d) I would prefer the advance arrow would allow you to bypass importing rookie files and scheduling files (either allow the user to have this option or make it a default). Having to go into your email is just an unecessary step each year.

5) I have my first CTD. It occurred at the start of the season when I tried to sign David Wesley from the free agent pool because Raja Bell was still injured. The error was something like "type mismatch," but I forgot to write it down.

6) The trade AI still has some major problems, IMO.

a) This is something I posted about last year, and the problem still screws up the trade AI in a major way, IMO. This is an example of one of the biggest problems. I needed a PG half way through the season. Dallas had Jason Terry on the bench and on its trade block. So, I offer, Tyron Lue, Raja Bell, and a first round pick (maybe another player as well). The quality arrow says the trade favors Dallas. Raja had the same number of years on his contract as Terry (4 I think) and Lue only had 2 years on his. By doing this trade, Dallas would be shedding salary in EVERY year of the deal and would be gaining quality (according to the arrows). And Terry is on the trading block, so they should be amenable to unloading his contract. However, the AI rejects the trade because Dallas won't take on either Bell or Lue's contract. That doesn't make any sense when we are taking on the "worse" contract. This AI problem makes impossible for many (if not most) of the trades in the real world to occur in the game. It also makes it almost impossible to play teams like the T-Wolves for a few years even if you are willing to absorb other ugly contracts in return.

b) The trade AI is too forgiving in other areas. I managed to turn the Hawks into an Eastern Confernce finalist (lost in game 7 to the Pistons) in their first season. I did this entirely through trades. I ended up with a starting lineup of Yao, Boozer, Adam Morrison, R. Bell, and Diaw (the AI started Diaw at PG where he did well). I had Shaun Livingston, Brandon Roy, Matt Harpring, Reggie Evans, and a couple of other decent players on the bench. I did all this without trading any first round draft picks.

7) It would be nice to sort transactions by types (ie trades) on the news screen.

8) Ticket prices seem kind of random. Am I supposed to know what to do here? I'd like an option for this to be automatic.

9) The "opponents" drawer seems unnecessary since it just takes you to the team roster screen.

That's it for now. I think I'll end up buying, but this is my last day of the trial, so I wanted to make a few notes now before I forget.

[John Galt]

What exactly was greyed out? The button to offer the mid level or the amount of year 1 of the contract? I tried the same experiment with Billups (except that I was Detroit) and every time I offered it he turned it down but I could continue to offer it - and when he signed with another team I could still offer the exception to someone else.

If you are seeing the button itself greyed out - I've yet to see that. If you are talking about the first year contract box being greyed out that is by design. It simply means you cannot change the amount of the 1st year of the exception not that you cannot offer it. So if you could clarify what you are seeing for me I would appreciate it.

It was definitely the button grayed out for mid-level exception. If I can recreate it, I'll show you.

[Brian Swartz]

On the talent level of the drafts, you'll see this even out over a larger sample size. For example my last draft had 2 4/5-star guys, 4 4-star guys, and a sizable number of 3-stars. We may still tweak it but the talent level does vary year-to-year.

Trades -- if you have specific examples of the unfair trades with Atlanta you are referring to that would help in improving it. Some of the other ideas are possible patch additions, thanks for posting them.

[John Galt]

On the talent level of the drafts, you'll see this even out over a larger sample size. For example my last draft had 2 4/5-star guys, 4 4-star guys, and a sizable number of 3-stars. We may still tweak it but the talent level does vary year-to-year.

Trades -- if you have specific examples of the unfair trades with Atlanta you are referring to that would help in improving it. Some of the other ideas are possible patch additions, thanks for posting them.

I can't remember all of the trades I made. Basically, though, I was able to trade Joe Johnson for Yao, a bunch of young players for Boozer, Diaw, Bell, and Livingston. My concern is that many real world trades (ie dumping bad contracts for other bad contracts are prohibited) while Yao, Diaw, and Boozer are attainable for young "talent." In Yao's first season with the Hawks, he was the league MVP and the Rockets certainly didn't need Johnson at SG since they do have McGrady. If I have time, I'll try to recreate some of the bad trades (unless there is a history file for seasons past I can access to just post here).

[Brian Swartz]

In each player's profile it has transaction history, you should be able to see from there what the trades included.

[John Galt]

In each player's profile it has transaction history, you should be able to see from there what the trades included.

Ok. Here are some of the trades:

Rockets trade C Yao Ming for Hawks SG Joe Johnson, C John Edwards (06/26/06)

Suns trade SG Boris Diaw, SG Raja Bell for Hawks PF Zaza Pachulia, 2007 2nd round pick(ATL), 2007 2nd round pick(ATL), 2008 2nd round pick(ATL) (06/30/06)

Jazz trade PF Carlos Boozer, C Patrick O'Bryant for Hawks SF Josh Smith, C Loukas Mavrokefalidis, 2009 2nd round pick(ATL) (06/30/06)

This last trade ended up even stranger because Mavrokefalidis and O'Bryant were both in the free agent pool after being released within a year later. I re-signed O'Bryant again and was able to make this trade:

Bobcats trade PF Tyrus Thomas, 2008 2nd round pick(CHA), 2009 2nd round pick(CHA), 2010 2nd round pick(CHA) for Hawks C Altron Forman, C Patrick O'Bryant (07/02/07)

Forman was nothing special - a late first round 2 star potential player.

[TroyF]

Ok. Here are some of the trades:

Rockets trade C Yao Ming for Hawks SG Joe Johnson, C John Edwards (06/26/06)

Suns trade SG Boris Diaw, SG Raja Bell for Hawks PF Zaza Pachulia, 2007 2nd round pick(ATL), 2007 2nd round pick(ATL), 2008 2nd round pick(ATL) (06/30/06)

Jazz trade PF Carlos Boozer, C Patrick O'Bryant for Hawks SF Josh Smith, C Loukas Mavrokefalidis, 2009 2nd round pick(ATL) (06/30/06)

This last trade ended up even stranger because Mavrokefalidis and O'Bryant were both in the free agent pool after being released within a year later. I re-signed O'Bryant again and was able to make this trade:

Bobcats trade PF Tyrus Thomas, 2008 2nd round pick(CHA), 2009 2nd round pick(CHA), 2010 2nd round pick(CHA) for Hawks C Altron Forman, C Patrick O'Bryant (07/02/07)

Forman was nothing special - a late first round 2 star potential player.

:confused:

Not a good sign as I start getting into this. Not a single one of those trades should have happened. Is this on the toughest level?

[TroyF]

Oh and a dola. . . there is no way Diaw should have been able to have had a decent year at PG. Yes, he's a good passer, but there is no way in hell he'd stay with any PG on defense and his lack of playmaking off the dribble would kill the offense.

I'm not a guy who believes in a lot of position modifiers in basketball. It's five on five and that's the way it goes. But the exception is PG. You have to have a guy who can handle the ball well and set up the offense.

A lineup of Yao, Boozer, Morrison, Bell and Diaw should fail miserably over the long haul. It's not like the 6'8" Diaw is surrounded by Jordan and Pippen here. Bell is the only average passer of the bunch in that group of five. There just isn't anyway the offense would be able to function with that in the real world.

[Gary Gorski]

A new version of the beta patch is up (1.0.2 - yes the other was called 1.1 but I decided it would make more sense to continually update it and when it was official call it 1.1)

http://www.wolverinestudios.com/downloads/DDSPB/DDSPBPatch_102.EXE is the direct link to the patch. Fixes include

Beta Patch 1.0.2
----------------
- RTE 381 on league finances screen
- RTE 13 on league leaders screen
- RTE 3020 occassionaly after the coach hiring process
- RTE 91 crash during simming in future years
- fixed problem with "s_" import files not starting after summer process
- fixed problem that caused rookie import day to be skipped
- changed trade exception to reflect new 25% limit as opposed to 15%
- fixed ability to access player card from the FA screen
- continued to address sub matrix problem with AI teams in the summer
- now boxes will auto fill with player's demand when offering an extension
- fixed some player data and contract issues in default.dat file

[Gary Gorski]

Ok. Here are some of the trades:

Rockets trade C Yao Ming for Hawks SG Joe Johnson, C John Edwards (06/26/06)

Suns trade SG Boris Diaw, SG Raja Bell for Hawks PF Zaza Pachulia, 2007 2nd round pick(ATL), 2007 2nd round pick(ATL), 2008 2nd round pick(ATL) (06/30/06)

Jazz trade PF Carlos Boozer, C Patrick O'Bryant for Hawks SF Josh Smith, C Loukas Mavrokefalidis, 2009 2nd round pick(ATL) (06/30/06)

This last trade ended up even stranger because Mavrokefalidis and O'Bryant were both in the free agent pool after being released within a year later. I re-signed O'Bryant again and was able to make this trade:

Bobcats trade PF Tyrus Thomas, 2008 2nd round pick(CHA), 2009 2nd round pick(CHA), 2010 2nd round pick(CHA) for Hawks C Altron Forman, C Patrick O'Bryant (07/02/07)

Forman was nothing special - a late first round 2 star potential player.

I'll take a look at what the AI was "thiking" in each of these cases. This may just be an issue with the new things I did to scouting error and GM abilities gone wrong. Basically I wanted to add the "Isiah factor" to trading but I may have over done it in some cases.

[Coffee Warlord]

That's a lot 'o second round picks.

[TroyF]

I'll take a look at what the AI was "thiking" in each of these cases. This may just be an issue with the new things I did to scouting error and GM abilities gone wrong. Basically I wanted to add the "Isiah factor" to trading but I may have over done it in some cases.

Love the fact that stupid trades are in there, but there should only be one isiah. :)

I can deal with goofy trades. I've never played a game I didn't need some sort of house rules with. I am concerned about the Diaw/Bell/Morrison/Boozer/Yao grouping doing well together over a year. That is a killer type thing because if the AI can succeed with a 6'8" 230 pound PG consistently, the only way to match them is to go unrealistic yourself. I think that should be looked at hard.

[Gary Gorski]

Love the fact that stupid trades are in there, but there should only be one isiah. :)

I can deal with goofy trades. I've never played a game I didn't need some sort of house rules with. I am concerned about the Diaw/Bell/Morrison/Boozer/Yao grouping doing well together over a year. That is a killer type thing because if the AI can succeed with a 6'8" 230 pound PG consistently, the only way to match them is to go unrealistic yourself. I think that should be looked at hard.

This might be a ratings issue more than anything else. If Diaw is overrated in PG categories (handling, passing) then he's going to do fine. Size and weight shouldnt determine whether or not he can run an offense (Magic, LeBron...)

[TroyF]

This might be a ratings issue more than anything else. If Diaw is overrated in PG categories (handling, passing) then he's going to do fine. Size and weight shouldnt determine whether or not he can run an offense (Magic, LeBron...)

Magic is a once in a generation freak of nature. (though keep in mind he was 15-20 pounds lighter than Diaw.

Lebron needs a true PG worse than any player in the league. Everyone thought the Cavs needed a SG to go with Bron and they were all wrong. The lack of a solid PG is the single biggest factor between them and a championship.

Lebron's stats may look nice, but the overall Cavs offense isn't. They consistenly are in the bottom third of the league in offensive efficiency, even with pace factor equated in. The Cavs are only winning right now because of the horrible conference they play in. That's not a dis on Bron who is doing a superhuman job to keep them where they are.

Sorry Gary, there is no way Boris Diaw should be the starting PG for a conference finalist.

I know, easy fix. Play with fictional players, right? It's things like this that cause me to do it. So long as there aren't a league full of Diaw's, I'm ok.

[John Galt]

That's a lot 'o second round picks.

It's been my experience that 2nd round picks are the perfect things to round out a very close trade. Throwing in more players and keeping the salaries matching can be tricky, so I grew accustomed (in the prior version) to throwing in 2nd round picks (which the game rightly considers to be worth little) and not dealing with 1st round picks (because the game probably values those way too much). But yeah, it does look funny sometimes.

[Gary Gorski]

Magic is a once in a generation freak of nature. (though keep in mind he was 15-20 pounds lighter than Diaw.

Lebron needs a true PG worse than any player in the league. Everyone thought the Cavs needed a SG to go with Bron and they were all wrong. The lack of a solid PG is the single biggest factor between them and a championship.

Lebron's stats may look nice, but the overall Cavs offense isn't. They consistenly are in the bottom third of the league in offensive efficiency, even with pace factor equated in. The Cavs are only winning right now because of the horrible conference they play in. That's not a dis on Bron who is doing a superhuman job to keep them where they are.

Sorry Gary, there is no way Boris Diaw should be the starting PG for a conference finalist.

I know, easy fix. Play with fictional players, right? It's things like this that cause me to do it. So long as there aren't a league full of Diaw's, I'm ok.

No, I'm not saying that at all. What I said was the perhaps Diaw is not rated properly which is causing him to perform better as a PG than he should. My point was that it should be his ratings that determine how he performs there and not his height and weight.

[John Galt]

Love the fact that stupid trades are in there, but there should only be one isiah. :)

I can deal with goofy trades. I've never played a game I didn't need some sort of house rules with. I am concerned about the Diaw/Bell/Morrison/Boozer/Yao grouping doing well together over a year. That is a killer type thing because if the AI can succeed with a 6'8" 230 pound PG consistently, the only way to match them is to go unrealistic yourself. I think that should be looked at hard.

I would almost have goofy trades because, like you, I can deal with some level of house rules. My problem is that the game almost completely bans trading bad contracts (even for worse contracts) while allowing these trades. That means playing the Hawks is easy and playing the T-Wolves is impossible. And that's weird.

I think the Diaw problem is in part ratings and in part that the original roster file lists him as a SG (instead of PF/SF). I imagined Bell would be my 6th man and Livingston would be my PG when I made the trades, but Stan Van Gundy (my coach) thought differently.

[MrBug708]

Bad contracts trading is almost essential in the NBA; the expiring ones that is. An expiring contract has more value then a second round pick IMO

[TroyF]

I would almost have goofy trades because, like you, I can deal with some level of house rules. My problem is that the game almost completely bans trading bad contracts (even for worse contracts) while allowing these trades. That means playing the Hawks is easy and playing the T-Wolves is impossible. And that's weird.

I think the Diaw problem is in part ratings and in part that the original roster file lists him as a SG (instead of PF/SF). I imagined Bell would be my 6th man and Livingston would be my PG when I made the trades, but Stan Van Gundy (my coach) thought differently.


Oh, I agree John. I understand what you are saything there 100%. In the world of the NBA you have to be able to deal bad contracts. Also, in the world of the NBA, an expiring bad contract can be golden. You have a guy who is due 15 million in the last year of his deal and he's worth his weight in gold. Any team looking to rebuild will be all over the guy.

I can see how that's tough to put into a game, but the deal you mentioned above certainly should have went through.

[JPhillips]

One trade problem left over from the previous version is the Ais willingness to trade drafted players for lower draft picks. First round picks are valued so highly by the AI that you can regularly trade a mid-first round pick for one of the top three or four players selected.

First round picks in general are valued too highly. They don't seem to be connected to the talent pool in the draft. I was able to trade a #9 pick when the pool had no one rated over 3 by the draft or scouts for Rudy Gay who was drafted the year before at #4 and was rated at 4.5. I traded the 19 pick and a couple of seconds for Sheldon Williams, drafted #8 and rated at 4. In both of these trades I threw in a two star player to balance salaries.

I also had a strange bug where the first two lottery teams' logos didn't appear in the lottery screen. The rest of the picks worked fine.

I'd love to see just ratings, just stats and stats and ratings options on the filters for players. That would save a lot of clicking little boxes.

I also had a very poor AI trade. I got Josh Howard and two first round picks for Kedrick Perkins and a first round pick. This doesn't sound bad until you realize that the Mavs always finish in the ottery after year one. btw- Why is that?

I'll keep posting things as I find them. I do want to point out that this version hasn't crashed on me and that overall I think this is a really fun game. It's already given me a couple of "Damn it's that late?" nights. The draft is excellent in setup. When I got a message saying I might trade the pick when I was indeed thinking of trading I almost cried.

[Gary Gorski]

Keep the feedback coming guys - Im working very quickly to fix any RTEs that crop up but I will also be taking the time to tweak things like trading and add in new stuff as well so keep the feedback rolling - both positive and negative welcomed :)

[MrBug708]

Not sure how hard it might be, but once the lotto is done and before the draft, any visit to the trade screen would reveal that pick in the draft. If there was a number value, obviously the first overall pick would be much more valuable then just it saying first round pick? I know it's that way in FOF once the new season is upon a team

[stevew]

Magic is a once in a generation freak of nature. (though keep in mind he was 15-20 pounds lighter than Diaw.

Lebron needs a true PG worse than any player in the league. Everyone thought the Cavs needed a SG to go with Bron and they were all wrong. The lack of a solid PG is the single biggest factor between them and a championship.

Lebron's stats may look nice, but the overall Cavs offense isn't. They consistenly are in the bottom third of the league in offensive efficiency, even with pace factor equated in. The Cavs are only winning right now because of the horrible conference they play in. That's not a dis on Bron who is doing a superhuman job to keep them where they are.

Sorry Gary, there is no way Boris Diaw should be the starting PG for a conference finalist.

I know, easy fix. Play with fictional players, right? It's things like this that cause me to do it. So long as there aren't a league full of Diaw's, I'm ok.

Actually, I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that LeBron is the main problem with their offense, and his lack of movement without the ball, and tendency to run the shot clock down too far and go one on one kills them. Gibson is doing a nice job of spreading the floor when he gets time, Larry Hughes needs a CEI or something, he's f'n worthless.

[Gary Gorski]

Not sure how hard it might be, but once the lotto is done and before the draft, any visit to the trade screen would reveal that pick in the draft. If there was a number value, obviously the first overall pick would be much more valuable then just it saying first round pick? I know it's that way in FOF once the new season is upon a team

So what you're saying is that rather than see " 2007 1st round pick" in the trade screen you want to see "2007 1st round pick #4" or something like that?

[Capital]

[QUOTE=JPhillips;1378542]One trade problem left over from the previous version is the Ais willingness to trade drafted players for lower draft picks. First round picks are valued so highly by the AI that you can regularly trade a mid-first round pick for one of the top three or four players selected.

First round picks in general are valued too highly. They don't seem to be connected to the talent pool in the draft. I was able to trade a #9 pick when the pool had no one rated over 3 by the draft or scouts for Rudy Gay who was drafted the year before at #4 and was rated at 4.5. I traded the 19 pick and a couple of seconds for Sheldon Williams, drafted #8 and rated at 4. In both of these trades I threw in a two star player to balance salaries.

This is something I saw in the last version as well. For intsance, I couldn't trade up to the #3 overall pick, but could make the deal for that player without much difficulty. That player did turn out to be a star.

I think it was a matter of valuing the pick more than the actual player.

[MrBug708]

So what you're saying is that rather than see " 2007 1st round pick" in the trade screen you want to see "2007 1st round pick #4" or something like that?

Ya, it would be helpful. :) Not essential of course though

[John Galt]

I ran a couple of tests on the overvaluing of first round picks. During the draft, I was able to trade Orlando's first round pick (11th) for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th player selected in the draft immediately after they were drafted. That is pretty bad. And, immediately before they were picked, I couldn't move up to save my life.

After having another first year draft, I remain convinced that the later years have too little talent and/or the first year has WAY too much talent. The first year is so different than every year after, that it isn't even funny.

Still, I'm playing the game because it does a lot of things right and it is, for the most part, enjoyable.

[Gary Gorski]

I ran a couple of tests on the overvaluing of first round picks. During the draft, I was able to trade Orlando's first round pick (11th) for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th player selected in the draft immediately after they were drafted. That is pretty bad. And, immediately before they were picked, I couldn't move up to save my life.

After having another first year draft, I remain convinced that the later years have too little talent and/or the first year has WAY too much talent. The first year is so different than every year after, that it isn't even funny.

Still, I'm playing the game because it does a lot of things right and it is, for the most part, enjoyable.

Thanks JG - we're looking into the draft classes. We've seen a decent balance but perhaps the first one is too good and later ones need some tweaking. I'm going to keep looking at it and tweaking as we go here.

[MrBug708]

One thing I noticed in the coaching pool is that thee are coaches that are aged like 4 years old.

And the descriptions of your coaching staff seems to be kind of confusing as the maximum values are on the right side of each coach. So even though the bar isn't near the right hand side always, the casual glance is that it's alwas excellent or on veterans or always *et al*

And maybe as a suggestion, perhaps a team could have the ability to hire away assistant coaches? To keep things from being too crazy, maybe only the option to hire them as head coaches? I'm pretty sure that in the NBA, no head coach would stand in the way of one of his assistants from being hired as a head coach if the chance arose?

Sorry, just some thoughts as I see them

[MrBug708]

Another trivial thing I noticed. In the second round, I could pick from five different PF's from Illinois and 4 of them were 1 star. Not that it matters in the end, but maybe more small schools added?

Once again, I apologize for pointing out small things, but just things I noticed :

[MrBug708]

JUst had a rookie, who didn't register a stat, win second team all rookie...

[JPhillips]

This is going on the shelf until the drafts and the AI trade offer issues get fixed.

[Galaril]

This is going on the shelf until the drafts and the AI trade offer issues get fixed.

Yeah me too.

[Fidatelo]

I think the 3 day trial is too short. I only had about 3 hours total over the timespan to play, and while I'm tempted to buy it, I wanted a little more time to decide if I like it or not. Would a 7, 10, or 14 day trial really hurt sales? I can't picture someone enjoying the game and then thinking "well, I got a solid week out of this, time to move on". This isn't the kind of game that you 'finish' after all.

[Subby]

Any mp experiences?

[Crapshoot]

I would almost have goofy trades because, like you, I can deal with some level of house rules. My problem is that the game almost completely bans trading bad contracts (even for worse contracts) while allowing these trades. That means playing the Hawks is easy and playing the T-Wolves is impossible. And that's weird.

I think the Diaw problem is in part ratings and in part that the original roster file lists him as a SG (instead of PF/SF). I imagined Bell would be my 6th man and Livingston would be my PG when I made the trades, but Stan Van Gundy (my coach) thought differently.

This scares me. I tried out the last game that Gary released and while it was impressive, the fact that bad contracts are untradable completely bugged me - you can't deal one bad player for another even if it makes sense for both parties. If that's still an issue, this game goes back on the "no thanks" list.

[stevew]

This scares me. I tried out the last game that Gary released and while it was impressive, the fact that bad contracts are untradable completely bugged me - you can't deal one bad player for another even if it makes sense for both parties. If that's still an issue, this game goes back on the "no thanks" list.

Yeah, that annoyed me a bit as well. If I'm trading you a 3 year shit contract for a 4 year one, you should be pulling the trigger. Like that Vince Carter or Shaq deal....you could never do something like that in TPB, but it's not uncommon to see lesser trades happen IRL. I'm sure you couldn't do the AI deal either.

[TroyF]

Yeah, that annoyed me a bit as well. If I'm trading you a 3 year shit contract for a 4 year one, you should be pulling the trigger. Like that Vince Carter or Shaq deal....you could never do something like that in TPB, but it's not uncommon to see lesser trades happen IRL. I'm sure you couldn't do the AI deal either.


Yep. In the NBA, there are four types of teams.

1) Title contender. Team already built, a few tweaks here and there each off season and give it another go. (Dallas, SA, Phoenix, etc.)

2) Trying to get to title contender status. Will do anything within reason to get there. Nuggets, Cavs, Bulls, Hornets and a ton of others. Anybody up and coming falls here.

3) Idiots. Those are the teams who don't have a realistic title shot anytime soon, but continue making the 8th seed year after year with a veteran laden team. The Kings are the best example of this now. They aren't good enough to even sniff the title, they have a ton of vets making big money (Bibby, Artest, Thomas, Miller, Raheem all have 4 years + on their deals). So they will be in limbo land until they realize it's time to rebuild. They should be shipping their assets to the #2 group now for young players and picks, and getting in the Oden/Durant sweepstakes this year or the OJ ones next year. Instead they'll get the 15 best player in the draft who will likely not end up being a star that can push them over the edge.

4) The guys in full rebuilding mode. Who cares if we win 18 games? Lets just play hard, play a ton of youngsters and save our cap room for a big score later.

In the world of the sim, you should have about 6 teams thinking this could be the year they win it all, 12 thinking "if we make one trade," 6 morons and 6 rebuilders. The 6 rebuilders should be looking for expiring deals and dealing any available asset within reason off for them.

[Gary Gorski]

Yep. In the NBA, there are four types of teams.

1) Title contender. Team already built, a few tweaks here and there each off season and give it another go. (Dallas, SA, Phoenix, etc.)

2) Trying to get to title contender status. Will do anything within reason to get there. Nuggets, Cavs, Bulls, Hornets and a ton of others. Anybody up and coming falls here.

3) Idiots. Those are the teams who don't have a realistic title shot anytime soon, but continue making the 8th seed year after year with a veteran laden team. The Kings are the best example of this now. They aren't good enough to even sniff the title, they have a ton of vets making big money (Bibby, Artest, Thomas, Miller, Raheem all have 4 years + on their deals). So they will be in limbo land until they realize it's time to rebuild. They should be shipping their assets to the #2 group now for young players and picks, and getting in the Oden/Durant sweepstakes this year or the OJ ones next year. Instead they'll get the 15 best player in the draft who will likely not end up being a star that can push them over the edge.

4) The guys in full rebuilding mode. Who cares if we win 18 games? Lets just play hard, play a ton of youngsters and save our cap room for a big score later.

In the world of the sim, you should have about 6 teams thinking this could be the year they win it all, 12 thinking "if we make one trade," 6 morons and 6 rebuilders. The 6 rebuilders should be looking for expiring deals and dealing any available asset within reason off for them.

This was the type of thing I was going for with the GM ratings and personality stuff in this version. I really wanted to make some major leaps in this version from TPB 2005 and there are areas that simply need the kinks worked out a bit whereas the leap from the first TPB to TPB 05 wasn't nearly as large.

The game has been out less than a week and we've had two beta patches up and Im continuing work on the next one - right now we're putting up a new beta patch every two-three days in order to give constant updates not only to fix the bugs and crashes but to improve other areas of the game and the trade and draft stuff are getting attention now.

I just ask that you keep providing me feedback and to remain patient with the game. The crashes and things like that I make no excuse for - I dropped the ball on that with how I ran the testing process and despite the fact that I'm hustling to get patches out to fix those they should never have happened in the first place - but the tweaks I think its fair to ask for a little bit of time to work out with you guys before you decide to shelve/ignore the game. I tried something new with the trading to take it to a new level - perhaps it missed the mark initially but I think that with some feedback and tweaks that it will be better than it ever was. Thank you to those who provided feedback in the areas of the draft and trades and hopefully the next beta patch (probably out sometime tomorrow late night or early Wed) will have marked improvements in those areas or at least enough improvements to keep you interested and prove that I'm willing to continue to work on improving every area of the game based on customer feedback.

[JPhillips]

Gary: I'll pick it back up with the next patch. I've been very impressed with how you and your company have handled things so far.

[TroyF]

Despite some of the problems, the game is pretty fun. I'm still playing it and will keep doing so.

[Gary Gorski]

Thanks guys - btw I think I found the problem with the mid level exception so that should be killed in the next beta patch hopefully and like I said, there should be some trade and draft improvements as well

[Gary Gorski]

Ok. Here are some of the trades:

Rockets trade C Yao Ming for Hawks SG Joe Johnson, C John Edwards (06/26/06)



For discussion sake and to help me improve the trading module - why is this a bad trade? (Now before anyone blows up their keyboard I admit that if I'm Houston I don't make this trade either)

What I am getting at by asking this question is what should the AI see here - ignore John Edwards and basically why not Yao for Joe Johnson? Here are the real life stats this year

Player G MPG FG FGP FT FTP 3PT 3PTP RPG APG SPG TPG BPG PPG
Johnson, Joe G ATL 42 40.6 406 48.4 171 77.0 94 39.7 4.07 4.17 1.10 3.12 0.17 25.64
Ming, Yao C HOU 27 34.6 252 52.2 195 86.7 0 0 .0 9.44 2.07 0.37 3.81 2.22 25.89

Johnson is a reliable three point shooter and scores about the same amount of points and is a year younger than Yao. Obviously their stats are not comparable in other areas since one is a guard and the other a center but what makes this deal bad for you? Is it because their names are Yao and Joe Johnson and not two made up names you never heard of?

It's cliche but I'll say it anyways, the game doesn't know names. What needs to be tweaked is the x-factor that makes you say no way if you're Houston. Is it simply because Yao is a center and a quality center is hard to come by? Is it because he's Yao and you simply feel there's still more upside to him where there is not with Johnson (although I dont know if Yao has much more upside than 26/10/2.2)? Because you already have T-Mac and nobody good at center now (and again is it because that is center and not nobody you can play at small forward or something)? Are blocks more valuable than steals even though they don't necessarily result in possession for your team? Because you didn't know Joe Johnson scores 25.6 PPG?

Personally if its me I don't make this trade because IMO a good center is much tougher to find than a good guard and if that is the consensus opinion then that's the tweak needed. But maybe its something I'm overlooking so your input is valuable.

[Eaglesfan27]

Your last paragraph summarizes why this is a terrible trade. A guard that can put up stats like Johnson is much more likely to be found than a C who can do all of the things Yao can do. I think that there has to be some sort of modifier for a guy's position and how easily he can be replaced. Also, I think height and weight are a significant factor in your engine (or at least that is my impression from playing TPB 05) so that is another factor working against that trade.

[TroyF]

You don't see dominant big men traded for dominant little men. At least not very often. Yao is the top center in basketball now. JJ is a great G amongst a lot of other great G.

I can see reasons Houston would do the trade, especially if they decided they wanted to switch styles and go to a more upbeat system. But I think the take is to low. Proven young big men are a monster commodity in the NBA.

I haven't paid attention to Joe's ratings in the game. The numbers we are taking are from real life. Is Joe putting up those numbers in the game? If he is, it makes the discussion relevant. If he's closer to 18 and 5 in the game, the trade is a heck of a lot worse.

[hoopsguy]

Your last paragraph summarizes why this is a terrible trade. A guard that can put up stats like Johnson is much more likely to be found than a C who can do all of the things Yao can do. I think that there has to be some sort of modifier for a guy's position and how easily he can be replaced. Also, I think height and weight are a significant factor in your engine (or at least that is my impression from playing TPB 05) so that is another factor working against that trade.

This is only true if the number of high-quality guards is significantly higher in the game, as it is in the NBA. If this is the case, then the game should reflect that. If this is not the case (just as many high quality centers as guards) then I would hope the game is tweaked to mirror the current reality of the NBA.

[John Galt]

The big reason that trade is bad is because the Rockets have McGrady. Acquiring many of the same player (McGrady, Wells, and Johnson) along with other players on the wing (Battier) just doesn't make sense in terms of team construction. You end up looking like the Knicks.

The fact that Yao went on to win MVP in his first season with my Hawks and is regularly a 1st or 2nd team all NBA player in the seasons I have run is icing on the cake. Johnson never has appeared on the top of those lists during my simulated seasons. That's pretty significant in my mind in terms of assessing value (be it from C scarcity or otherwise).

[Galaril]

This was the type of thing I was going for with the GM ratings and personality stuff in this version. I really wanted to make some major leaps in this version from TPB 2005 and there are areas that simply need the kinks worked out a bit whereas the leap from the first TPB to TPB 05 wasn't nearly as large.

The game has been out less than a week and we've had two beta patches up and Im continuing work on the next one - right now we're putting up a new beta patch every two-three days in order to give constant updates not only to fix the bugs and crashes but to improve other areas of the game and the trade and draft stuff are getting attention now.

I just ask that you keep providing me feedback and to remain patient with the game. The crashes and things like that I make no excuse for - I dropped the ball on that with how I ran the testing process and despite the fact that I'm hustling to get patches out to fix those they should never have happened in the first place - but the tweaks I think its fair to ask for a little bit of time to work out with you guys before you decide to shelve/ignore the game. I tried something new with the trading to take it to a new level - perhaps it missed the mark initially but I think that with some feedback and tweaks that it will be better than it ever was. Thank you to those who provided feedback in the areas of the draft and trades and hopefully the next beta patch (probably out sometime tomorrow late night or early Wed) will have marked improvements in those areas or at least enough improvements to keep you interested and prove that I'm willing to continue to work on improving every area of the game based on customer feedback.

Thanks Gary for all the hard work on getting this stuff waorked out. Like others have siad it is still a fun game and just needs a little more fine tuning.Maybe you could have public beta with the next game college DDS:COLLEGE basketball next time or anyone who buys DDS:PB by a certain date is invited to be part of the beta? ;)

[Brian Swartz]

I've posted this at the WS forums as well, but we are going to re-evaluate a number of things including testing for future games at an appropriate time(meaning sometime after we get DDSPB patched).

[Coffee Warlord]

I've posted this at the WS forums as well, but we are going to re-evaluate a number of things including testing for future games at an appropriate time(meaning sometime after we get DDSPB patched).

Hey, you've got my offer to test your stuff. :)

[Emiliano]

Patch 1.1 is out (http://www.wolverinestudios.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2027)!

[Gary Gorski]

Beta patch version 1.1.1 available

http://www.wolverinestudios.com/downloads/DDSPB/DDSPBPatch1_1_1.EXE

Again, as before this is a BETA patch - the items on the list will be confirmed as fixed by the staff and beta testers but we've chosen to make it available to the public as well. You have the choice of downloading it or waiting for an official patch to be released.

Beta Patch Version 1.1.1
-----------------------
- fixed RTE 13 at the end of the dleague draft
- fixed RTE 91 during a sim related to dleague teams not hiring enough coaches
- fixed RTE 9 going to the playoffs
- fixed RTE 91 after league awards
- fixed bug causing two days to sim instead of one if attempting to sim from some screen other than your office
- fixed problem with "s_" imported database files
- fixed bug not displaying trade emails
- fixed problem with losing the mid level exception after offering it once
- fixed problem where AI team makes subs but then reverts them when you go to sub/strategy page
- fixed news story error
- fixed bug causing free agents to be untradeable for longer than 90 days after start of season
- added current pick number to trade screen for draft picks prior to and during the draft
- made changes to initial roster file (default.dat)
- attempted to improve future rookie class level of talent
- attempted to improve trade AI in regards to draft picks, willingness to take on bad contracts if trading worse contracts and player valuation

[JPhillips]

Gary,

Thanks. I got a new RTE this morning. When I accidentally hit previous stage on the first stage of play development I got a RTE.

[Tim Tellean]

jphillips- rte number?

[JPhillips]

I think it was 13, but I didn't pay attention. I'll see if I can replicate it and get back to you.

btw- In cruising the MF forum I saw where you said you'd buy MF. Did you really?

[JPhillips]

Well this is new. Playing the first season with thirty two teams the entire league played 92 games in the season.

[Tim Tellean]

Yes I did buy it. Played it for maybe 15 minutes, not my thing. Has promise but needs loads of work. And yes the 32 team league plays 92 games.

[Bee]

Well, I downloaded the demo to this last night. So far it's been pretty fun. I'm not a big basketball fan, but playing a fictional league has been enjoyable and the draft is handled better than any other game out there IMO. I'd like to see more feedback/interaction during free agency, trades and contract negotiations but I think the game has a ton of potential once all the bugs are worked out. I'll probably buy the game this weekend assuming it continues to hold my interest over the next two days.

[Bee]

dola

I think I read over at the Wolverine Studios forums that a patch was coming in the next day or two.

[JPhillips]

Is the problem with summer league rosters not filling out going to be fixed? I can't get past year three summer league because Dallas doesn't have enough players on their summer league team to fill out the sub matrix.

[Gary Gorski]

Yes, I finally managed to track down the issue with the summer leagues. Its preventing players who played in a previous summer league from playing again so the upcoming beta patch should clear up that issue as well as a few other bugs and tweaks.

[Fidatelo]

I went ahead and bought the game earlier this week, and I'm liking it so far. The draft really is cool, although I'm too impatient to wait through it, but that's my own problem :)

One thing I noticed in my first (and only season) was that a lot of guy's seemed to go down with long-term injuries. I think there were about 10-12 guys out with 200+ day injuries at the all-star break. I'm not a massive NBA guy, so maybe that's normal, but my gut tells me it seems real high.

[Groundhog]

One thing I noticed in my first (and only season) was that a lot of guy's seemed to go down with long-term injuries. I think there were about 10-12 guys out with 200+ day injuries at the all-star break. I'm not a massive NBA guy, so maybe that's normal, but my gut tells me it seems real high.

10-12 might be a little high, but there are probably 7 or 8 guys out there who are going to be sitting out most of the season, so I don't see it as a major issue.

Off the top of my head: Tony Allen, Kenyon Martin, Jason Richardson... hmm, I know I'm forgetting some. Maybe there aren't as many as I assumed.

[Sublime 2]

10-12 might be a little high, but there are probably 7 or 8 guys out there who are going to be sitting out most of the season, so I don't see it as a major issue.

Off the top of my head: Tony Allen, Kenyon Martin, Jason Richardson... hmm, I know I'm forgetting some. Maybe there aren't as many as I assumed.

Just off the top of my head to add to yours: Theo Ratliff, Nenad Kristic, Richard Jefferson (I think he's out for a while?)...so i think 8-10 guys is certainly plausible.

[Groundhog]

Also, Bobby Simmons. So, that's 7 without any research.

[Sweed]

10-12 might be a little high, but there are probably 7 or 8 guys out there who are going to be sitting out most of the season, so I don't see it as a major issue.

Off the top of my head: Tony Allen, Kenyon Martin, Jason Richardson... hmm, I know I'm forgetting some. Maybe there aren't as many as I assumed.

Just off the top of my head to add to yours: Theo Ratliff, Nenad Kristic, Richard Jefferson (I think he's out for a while?)...so i think 8-10 guys is certainly plausible.

Chris Mihm comes to mind.

[Young Drachma]

Yes I did buy it. Played it for maybe 15 minutes, not my thing. Has promise but needs loads of work. And yes the 32 team league plays 92 games.

That's pretty much my take. I like it, but...so far it's basically been unplayable or at least, pretty close to that. I'm playing WWSM again.

[Marmel]

So what is the verdict on this game now? I've been reading a few dynasties that use this game and it sounds pretty cool. I've cut way back on my game purchases lately...not that 28 bucks is a whole lot, but I feel I've been burnt by a lot of bad text-sims over the past year or two.

[Galaril]

So what is the verdict on this game now? I've been reading a few dynasties that use this game and it sounds pretty cool. I've cut way back on my game purchases lately...not that 28 bucks is a whole lot, but I feel I've been burnt by a lot of bad text-sims over the past year or two.

I really enjoy this annually during the b-ball season. It always seems alittle more polished than the basketball games Gary makes. It could be just me or the fact that there are alot of things going on in the college game like recruiting.............In anycase I would highly recommend either or both of DDS basketball games.