Should Tank Johnson Play?

[Lathum]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a thread started about this unless I missed it. Should he have been allowed to make the trip? IMO it sends a poor message that you can commit multiple crimes and be rewarded. If it was up to me he would be watching the game on his couch with his ankle bracelet.

[st.cronin]

Has he actually been convicted of anything yet?

[Lathum]

Has he actually been convicted of anything yet?

he has been arrested 3 times in 2 years

[Lathum]

dola- the latest was for parole violation so I can only assume he has been convicted

[Shkspr]

I admit I'm unfamiliar with the theory that his trip to the Super Bowl was in some way made possible by the commision of a crime.

I'm more familiar with the idea that a judge with some connection to the case made the determination that he should be allowed to leave the state. I'm aware that while he has in fact been charged, he is assumed to be innocent of the charges against him until such time as the charges against him are fully examined. I would assume that the presence of nearly three dozen cameras and 100,000 witnesses would be enough to ensure that the accused is not a flight risk during the game itself, though I admit that it would be tricky to tell if he had switched helmets and jerseys with some other 6'3", 300# man.

There is no reason to think that anyone connected to this case is not cognizant of how it "appears" to people. I would imagine that the NFL believes that there are not enough people who care enough to materially affect the reputation or fortunes of the league. I suspect the league is correct in that belief.

[stkelly52]

Has he actually been convicted of anything yet?
Yes he plead guilty to a misdemeanor gun charge in 2005. He was sentanced to 18 months of probation. His latest arrest is a violation of his parrole.

[Lathum]

I admit I'm unfamiliar with the theory that his trip to the Super Bowl was in some way made possible by the commision of a crime.

I'm more familiar with the idea that a judge with some connection to the case made the determination that he should be allowed to leave the state. I'm aware that while he has in fact been charged, he is assumed to be innocent of the charges against him until such time as the charges against him are fully examined. I would assume that the presence of nearly three dozen cameras and 100,000 witnesses would be enough to ensure that the accused is not a flight risk during the game itself, though I admit that it would be tricky to tell if he had switched helmets and jerseys with some other 6'3", 300# man.

There is no reason to think that anyone connected to this case is not cognizant of how it "appears" to people. I would imagine that the NFL believes that there are not enough people who care enough to materially affect the reputation or fortunes of the league. I suspect the league is correct in that belief.

my point isn't that he maya potentialy flee but that he is being given special treatment based on his stature

[Lathum]

Yes he plead guilty to a misdemeanor gun charge in 2005. He was sentanced to 18 months of probation. His latest arrest is a violation of his parrole.

but if you are a pro football player it is OK to violate your parole

[illinifan999]

my point isn't that he maya potentialy flee but that he is being given special treatment based on his stature

He was ordered to stay at home except to go to work. He needed special permission to leave the state, and since it was work-related, he was allowed. I'm not defending him, but seeing as how the condition was that he stay at home except for work and seeing as how this game is a part of his work I don't really see any special treatment.

[molson]

my point isn't that he maya potentialy flee but that he is being given special treatment based on his stature

People get modifications of their probation or parole all the time - I'd say the #1 reason is when someone has a job in another location. Many judges will give people leeway to help them stay employed.

[Lathum]

People get modifications of their probation or parole all the time - I'd say the #1 reason is when someone has a job in another location. Many judges will give people leeway to help them stay employed.

do you think he would be released if he wasn't allowed to play?

[bhlloy]

If he wasn't allowed to leave the state at all, he would certainly be released. No team would keep a roster spot for a player who could only play half the games.

You seem to have something against him. Everything I have heard indicates that this isn't a big deal at all. Isn't he allowed out of the state already during the regular season as part of his parole deal?

[Lathum]

I have nothing against him I just don't like to see athletes help to a different standard when it comes to the law

[bhlloy]

Except that regular people are routinely allowed to leave the state if they need to for work purposes. And given the fact that this must be the lowest flight risk in parole history, I don't see why this should have been turned down.

In fact, he would probably have been held to a different standard if the request had been turned down. And why is it suddenly a big deal just because it's the Super Bowl?

[Young Drachma]

This is only a big deal because it's the super bowl and he's a starter. If he were a two-bit player, no one would care or be worried about it one way or another.

Would you rather him be unemployed? I'm sure that would help society.

It's obviously different since his company is the Chicago Bears of the NFL and that his particular "business trip" happens to be the Super Bowl.

But unless the judge was wearing a jersey under his or her robe and told him "Go get those Colts" or if the prosecutor did something out of the ordinary in this case -- which it doesn't seem that way -- I don't know how it's special treatment.

[CraigSca]

If he was a baseball player, there would be a moral outcry and picketing outside the stadium. However, since he plays football, society gives him a pat on the butt and hands him another steroid.

[miami_fan]

There is no reason to think that anyone connected to this case is not cognizant of how it "appears" to people. I would imagine that the NFL believes that there are not enough people who care enough to materially affect the reputation or fortunes of the league. I suspect the league is correct in that belief.

Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct here.

[Oilers9911]

If he was a baseball player, there would be a moral outcry and picketing outside the stadium. However, since he plays football, society gives him a pat on the butt and hands him another steroid.

100% agreed. Football seems to get a pass no matter what its athletes do. Other sports do not get the same leeway when their athletes do something stupid like commit a crime but football, because it is America's darling right now seems to get a shrug of the shoulders and people say...oh well as long as they win on Sunday.

[CraigSca]

I was listening to sports radio the other day, and I heard an interesting theory surrounding why this is so. While I don't believe this began the entire process, I do believe this theory has something to do with why it is self-sustaining.

The theory is: while football arrests, steroids use, etc., are reported, they are not done so with vigor because all the major outlets have a vested interest in the game. Football has contracts with ESPN/ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC. The major outlets aren't going to screw the pooch when their networks stand to lose money if the game were to fall out of favor with the general public. Baseball, however, only has a contract with TBS (for the playoffs?), FOX and ESPN. Therefore, there are quite a number of outlets that actually stand to gain by having baseball fail.

Really, if the Cincinnati Reds (instead of the Bengals) had 9 guys arrested in the past 18 months - wouldn't there be an outcry over this? The Bengals are something of a punchline in the NFL because of all their issues. Something tells me that if they were Reds, people wouldn't be laughing along. They'd be talking about spoiled ballplayers run amok, how they should be thrown out of baseball and talk radio would be over-run with callers saying this is exactly why they're not interested in baseball anymore.

[Raiders Army]

Do steriods, go to the Pro Bowl. Violate the law, go to the Super Bowl.

[albionmoonlight]

Do steriods, go to the Pro Bowl. Violate the law, go to the Super Bowl.

Kill somebody, go to Canton.

[JPhillips]

Lathum: This isn't meant as an attack, but I find it odd that you're defending Mayo in one thread and calling for Tank Johnson to be suspended/released here.

[Lathum]

Lathum: This isn't meant as an attack, but I find it odd that you're defending Mayo in one thread and calling for Tank Johnson to be suspended/released here.

2 completely different arguments. One is a grown man who had a arsenal of loaded weapons AFTER a prior arrest forbid him to do so and he is being rewarded by being allowed to play in the super bowl

The other is a 17 year old kid who lost his cool in a basketball game.

To compare the 2 would be idiotic on many levels.

[JPhillips]

I'll bypass the idiotic comment for now.

Johnson is fully within the boundaries currently set by the court, boundaries that appear to be common for people in his position. He isn't violating any prohibitions by playing and frankly I don't see how the NFL or the Bears could do anything without causing a confrontation with the player's union. He isn't "being rewarded" anything.

[Lathum]

I'll bypass the idiotic comment for now.

Johnson is fully within the boundaries currently set by the court, boundaries that appear to be common for people in his position. He isn't violating any prohibitions by playing and frankly I don't see how the NFL or the Bears could do anything without causing a confrontation with the player's union. He isn't "being rewarded" anything.

the idiotic comment wasn't directed towards you so you should ignore it.

IT is my understanding that he violated his parole by possesing those weapons. I just think it sends a bad message that you can be arrested a number of times, violate your parole and still be allowed to enjoy your livelyhood. To me that tells kids it is ok to break the law, the consequenses won't be severe.

[JPhillips]

I guess I don't see what the benefit to society or Johnson's rehabilitation would be if he were denied his livelihood.

[JonInMiddleGA]

To me that tells kids it is ok to break the law, the consequenses won't be severe.

Well that does seem to be the direction we've headed, so perhaps this isn't special treatment for an athlete, it's just increasingly par for the course.

[Pumpy Tudors]

IT is my understanding that he violated his parole by possesing those weapons. I just think it sends a bad message that you can be arrested a number of times, violate your parole and still be allowed to enjoy your livelyhood. To me that tells kids it is ok to break the law, the consequenses won't be severe.
I don't know much about Tank Johnson's story, so I can only speak in general terms. It sounds like he violated his parole, but he's still allowed to do his job. Should he be denied the privilege of working?

What's the issue here? Is it because it's a sport, or is it because it's the Super Bowl? Is it something else? You keep bringing up that he's being "rewarded", but I fail to see that. If the courts say that he can travel out of Illinois to do his job, that's all there is to it. Does this matter any more than a regional manager who's allowed to attend an out-of-state corporate meeting?

I don't particularly care if Tank Johnson plays or not, but he's being allowed to do his job that requires travel. I don't know what the special privilege is. It's not like the Bears gave him a job because he violated parole.

What's the fundamental thing that I'm obviously missing here?

[molson]

the idiotic comment wasn't directed towards you so you should ignore it.

IT is my understanding that he violated his parole by possesing those weapons. I just think it sends a bad message that you can be arrested a number of times, violate your parole and still be allowed to enjoy your livelyhood. To me that tells kids it is ok to break the law, the consequenses won't be severe.

This doesn't make any sense to me. Depriving criminals the opportunity to work is incredibily counter-productive. If the ultimate resolution is jail time, fine, that's up to the prosecutors (I believe this matter is still pending), but in the meantime it's ridiculous to arbitrarily deprive a non-flight risk of things just because you think he's a bad guy. Do you want to take his cable TV too? What's society's interest in him not working?

Edit- Most states have statutory guidelines about what kinds of things can be considered when instituting pre-sentence or hearing limitations on someone (like bond or travel restrictions). Typically, the only things a state can consider are saftey to the community, and securing future court appearances, not "he's mean and famous, lets send a message".

[KevinNU7]

I always assumed the "working while on house arrest" was for a very small number of overall cases, and really only was in place for those who had dependants that were counting on their salaries and desperately need the money.

[rkmsuf]

who the heck walks around wanting to be called "tank"

[Young Drachma]

If he was a baseball player, there would be a moral outcry and picketing outside the stadium. However, since he plays football, society gives him a pat on the butt and hands him another steroid.

Nah, this isn't the same as the steroids double standard. Though I agree with the sentiment as it relates to that. Bastard players are lazy juicers, football players are "real athletes." Whatever.

[Young Drachma]

I always assumed the "working while on house arrest" was for a very small number of overall cases, and really only was in place for those who had dependants that were counting on their salaries and desperately need the money.

He makes a lot of money. He has bills and all sorts of stuff too. Just because he makes bank, doesn't mean he doesn't have lots of other expenses that the majority of us can't really fathom.

I'd think that would make him a lot MORE likely to need to work, than some guy who works at the quickie mart or the gas station.

Where else is he going to get a job?

[Young Drachma]

Dola --

I once worked at a retail store -- Software Etc. -- back when I was a teenager in NJ. Anyway, we had a frequent customer who always came in dressed in track suits and would drop several hundred bucks on games and was always calling or coming in to get new stuff as soon as it came out.

Well, long story short..he applied to work there one day.

And his references for past jobs were

-- Pittsburgh Steelers
-- Green Bay Packers

With the phone numbers to the GM as his references (I remembered seeing Ron Wolf's name and office # on one of 'em) and it had his previous salary at whatever it was.

My boss told me he was a former practice squad player, who was released and now he was bored. But he had money. He just wanted to work for us mostly to get the 35% employee discount, but...my boss told me "I told him I could hire him, because I couldn't in good conscious pay this guy $6.25 an hour to work for us, after he made all of that money."

It was a funny story, but...still.

[miami_fan]

What would have been the ramifications if he was not allowed to travel? Would he have not gotten paid his salary? I always thought that the players were paid their salaries throughout the season and not during the playoffs. Would Johnson lose any money if he did not play in the Super Bowl? Or just the opportunity to work (play?) for the Bears in the Super Bowl?

[molson]

What would have been the ramifications if he was not allowed to travel? Would he have not gotten paid his salary? I always thought that the players were paid their salaries throughout the season and not during the playoffs. Would Johnson lose any money if he did not play in the Super Bowl? Or just the opportunity to work (play?) for the Bears in the Super Bowl?

I'm pretty sure there's a winning and losing team "Super Bowl share" that the players divide. Not sure how much it is relative to salary. But I'd think that teams also must have some contractual remedy for a player who decides he just doesn't want to show up for a playoff game.