I'm against the death penalty, but.....

[Schmidty]

This kind of crap makes me so furious, I almost can't contain myself. :mad:

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/255/story/47826.html


My wife works at Costco (as her main job), and she was working when this happened earlier today. She works in the photolab right at the entrance, and heard the crash when it happened. She called me at home crying, because she had heard that somebody died, although she didn't know the details. I didn't either, until I just read this.

The speed limit there is 35, and there's a ton of traffic, especially at that time of day. When I heard that they were doing upward of 100 mph, I couldn't believe it. That's like shooting a machine gun into a crowd. My fucking wife could have been the person hit.

I know I shouldn't say this, but it's too damned bad that one, or both of those stupid fucking idiotic teens didn't die instead of that poor man. If I were a family member of an innocent person killed in that way, I would find those kids, and perform my own justice on them.

I know that knee-jerk reactions like mine aren't good, but I just can't help it right now. :mad:

[Raiders Army]

That's a sad story; unfortunately the same type of thing is played out across the country every day with drunk drivers. The difference between that and this is that you can mitigate your risk by staying in at night. In this case, you're at risk because of the stupidity of your fellow "human beings".

[Schmidty]

Just found out from my wife (still at work), that the kid died now. I guess that's sad, but I just can't feel any pity for him right now.

[amdaily]

Just found out from my wife (still at work), that the kid died now. I guess that's sad, but I just can't feel any pity for him right now.

Ditto. We had a similar case in our small town. Drunk 16 year old joy riding down a side street. Ran right into an intersection with a main street and killed a girl I went to high school with.

There are still flowers on the street sign there 5 years later. Meanwhile the kid served a year in juvy and is to up to god knows what right now. An injustice that that undescribable :mad:.

[Lathum]

A worse punishment for the kid would have been to live his life disfigured from the burns. I do feel bad for the kids parents.

[Tekneek]

Jackass kids. My feelings for the parents are only that they must really regret that they never taught their children how to respect other people and how to drive responsibly. If they aren't full of regret at their failure, then I don't know what to say for them. I made mistakes when I was a teen, but I never made any that placed others in danger like that.

A worse punishment for the kid would've been to live his life disfigured from the burns? What about the man they killed? What if he was somebody's grandfather who they will never get to play with again? That's who I feel for. Fuck that kid. I couldn't care any less about what happens to some jackass who shows such a lack of respect for everyone else.

[stevew]

Every night there are assholes that race through the parking lot where i work, in their modded up aftermarket rice burner cars. I'm shocked that they haven't hit someone yet. If the right to drive is supposedly going to be some "inalienable" right, then there need to be much harder penalties for getting into "accidents." Like Tekneek was explaining elsewhere, the dude that wrecked his father in law(i think) was to concerned with other shit than simply driving. And that makes me angry.

[Rizon]

This type of story happens every week here. Some idiot teen going 3 times the speed limit, either drunk or not drunk, plows into someone else and kills them. Rarely are these idiots killed themselves, which is unfortunate.

[Lathum]

A worse punishment for the kid would've been to live his life disfigured from the burns? What about the man they killed? What if he was somebody's grandfather who they will never get to play with again? That's who I feel for. Fuck that kid. I couldn't care any less about what happens to some jackass who shows such a lack of respect for everyone else.


I think it goes without saying I feel bad for the victim, hence my point that death was to good for this kid and a far worse punishment would have been for him to live his life disfigured as a reminder of how his stupidity wrecked a number of lives.

[Tekneek]

I think it goes without saying I feel bad for the victim, hence my point that death was to good for this kid and a far worse punishment would have been for him to live his life disfigured as a reminder of how his stupidity wrecked a number of lives.

Oh. I misunderstood. I'm sorry. I read it with a tone that was obviously different than what you intended. I'm probably too sensitive about these things right now.

[Lathum]

Oh. I misunderstood. I'm sorry. I read it with a tone that was obviously different than what you intended. I'm probably too sensitive about these things right now.

np :)

[Greyroofoo]

i don't think the death penalty is used enough.

[Greyroofoo]

dola

just saw the pictures of the crash,
this kind of behavior just riles me

[firebirds]

In my Utopian world I would have every new driver do numerous "Total Recall" cycles until they realize how quick you can get yourself into trouble behind the wheel and most importantly experience what can happen in the aftermath of such things. Sure I know it is a far fetched idea but let me tell you what, with the couple FUBAR's I've had, it has made me the safe driver that IMHO I am today. Too bad it cost way too much $$$ and injury (mostly to myself) to learn what really goes on, but until you experience it first hand nobody has a clue how quick and the extent of which things can occure. Driving isn't a computer game so you can't reset/start over if you screw up. If your lucky there is only destruction, if your not so lucky there is serious injury and possibly death. I just don't think that todays beginning drivers realize that, I can only think they believe it is just a game no matter how many "Hiighway Patrol" magazines pictures they see.

[Greyroofoo]

you're under-estimating the intelligence of teenagers. Anyone with a brain can fricken realize that a ton of metal traveling in excess of 60+ mph can do some serious/fatal damage.

[Rizon]

you're under-estimating the intelligence of teenagers. Anyone with a brain can fricken realize that a ton of metal traveling in excess of 60+ mph can do some serious/fatal damage.

Let's cut them some slack. Maybe they are just thinking about MySpace too much.

[BrianD]

you're under-estimating the intelligence of teenagers. Anyone with a brain can fricken realize that a ton of metal traveling in excess of 60+ mph can do some serious/fatal damage.

This is true, but the average teenage mind (generally lacking experience) is also dumb enough to believe that they can control that much car.

Kids should really be made to drive in bad conditions (probably in a vacant lot) and be put through a series of controlled and uncontrolled maneuvers. Only by feeling themselves lose control can they understand just how easily it can happen.

[Young Drachma]

Only by feeling themselves lose control can they understand just how easily it can happen.

What? You meant teenagers aren't invincible?

Ugh. I think the reality check is necessary. They think they have it all under control. Of course, the amount of adults who are this silly are too sad to mention. But..still.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Anyone with a brain can fricken realize that a ton of metal traveling in excess of 60+ mph can do some serious/fatal damage.

Only if they actually engage their brain to consider that fact.

10 foot tall & bulletproof <> thoughtful consideration

[cartman]

What got me to drive better was a teenage experience. We snuck off from a Boy Scout trip to go to on a late night fishing trip. It was myself and two buddies. I didn't have my license yet, so I was riding shotgun. Jeff was hotdogging on the way out, but nothing too out of line. However, on the way back, all hell broke loose. He was going 85 to 90 on country roads. We were having a blast. Until he lost control after hitting some gravel on a wide, sweeping turn. Everything went into slow motion as I saw the telephone pole straight ahead. We slammed into the pole, and I glanced over and saw Jeff's head bounce off of the steering wheel and into the windshield. I had the wind knocked out of me when the passenger in the back seat slammed forward into my seat. I looked over, and the telephone pole was about a foot away from my left knee. Before we hit the pole, we took out about 100 feet of fencing. The homeowner came down, and we instantly recognized him as a local TV preacher. He unleashed a torrent of cuss words that would have made a sailor blush. After the sheriff showed up, I was allowed to walk back the 4 miles to the campsite and let the rest of the folks know what was up. My scoutmaster drove me back to the crash site just as Jeff's dad got there. I'll never forget what his dad said: "Well, Jeffie, at least you didn't do a half assed job this time."

[sabotai]

What? You meant teenagers aren't invincible?

I sure acted invincible when I was a teenager. I never let it effect my driving though...well, that is when I wasn't driving stoned out of my mind....

[Schmidty]

Update: I got some incorrect info yesterday from my wife (who got some incorrect info), and forgot to correct myself in this thread. The kid that was burned is not dead, and is actually improving.

I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about all this. The rage is gone, but my emotions in regard to punishment of the kids is very conflicted.

[Mac Howard]

Update: I got some bad info yesterday from my wife (who got some bad info), and forget to correct myself in this thread. The kid that was burned is not dead, and is actually improving.

Just as well you didn't hang the guy then ;)

[BrianD]

Update: I got some incorrect info yesterday from my wife (who got some incorrect info), and forgot to correct myself in this thread. The kid that was burned is not dead, and is actually improving.

I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about all this. The rage is gone, but my emotions in regard to punishment of the kids is very conflicted.

From a justice standpoint, they probably deserve many years in jail. Taking a life by being stupid is pretty serious.

From a rehabilitation standpoint...I think the kids have probably already learned all they will learn from this situation. They don't need jail to tell them that killing someone is wrong, they probably already knew that. They needed an accident to tell them they really aren't in as much control as they think.

I guess the question then becomes whether you believe in prison as a punishment or as a tool for rehabilitation.

[firebirds]

BrianD clearly said what I was intending. Kids, due to lack of experience, just don't realize and/or can't see the big picture. We all know that it just takes a second for something to happen even when one is being attentive and responsible. We know that 5 mph can make all the difference in the world in safely making a turn or sliding out of control.

Inexperience + perceived invincibility + pushing the envelope = teenager stupidity

I have a teenager and I know that their minds do work, just not the way that ours do. What is point blank obvious to us is an enigma to them and I suppose they feel the same about us. I know my daughter and love her dearly and because of that the thought of her behind the wheel does not compute. She just isn't ready to drive yet. So even if all her friends are getting their licenses and their parents are getting them cars she will just have to wait.

Edit: I think the answer to your question is yes, depending on the situation and the responsible party but then I think that you run into a long term issue of fairness. I agree the kids probably have learned what was needed yet I believe that they still need additional reinforcement of the leason learned. I know that if a loved one were taken from me in a situation like this knowing that the kids learned there leason and it probably wouldn't happen again isn't enough for me. Call me small and shallow if you want but I would want to see some form of punishment.

[sterlingice]

Not that I've ever really been a fan of teenagers, even when I was one. But isn't it a bit off to just go after teenagers. How about anyone who gets behind the wheel drunk?

SI

[BrianD]

Not that I've ever really been a fan of teenagers, even when I was one. But isn't it a bit off to just go after teenagers. How about anyone who gets behind the wheel drunk?

SI

Slight threadjack, but why are there no breathalizers in bars or available for home purchase? People who might be too drunk to drive are in no mental condition to determine if they can drive. Why not take out the guesswork? I know there were times where I was pretty sure I was well under the limit before I drove, but I would have loved to have had a breathalizer in the car to be sure.

[Tekneek]

Slight threadjack, but why are there no breathalizers in bars or available for home purchase? People who might be too drunk to drive are in no mental condition to determine if they can drive. Why not take out the guesswork? I know there were times where I was pretty sure I was well under the limit before I drove, but I would have loved to have had a breathalizer in the car to be sure.

I heard there were some at CES that were being pitched for bars and home use. Maybe those will catch on.

[st.cronin]

With bars and bartenders increasingly being held liable for the actions of their customers, I can imagine a scenario where in order to be served a drink you must take a breathalyzer.

[BrianD]

I heard there were some at CES that were being pitched for bars and home use. Maybe those will catch on.

I would buy one as long as it was affordable. We only host one or two parties a year with people having more than one drink, but I would love to give people a way to be sure they are safe.

[Tekneek]

I would buy one as long as it was affordable. We only host one or two parties a year with people having more than one drink, but I would love to give people a way to be sure they are safe.

The legal limit is not a definite indicator of safety, though. It is entirely possible for some people to be unsafe while below the legal limit and for others to be safe while above it.

[BrianD]

The legal limit is not a definite indicator of safety, though. It is entirely possible for some people to be unsafe while below the legal limit and for others to be safe while above it.

True, but at least it is a point of reference. I could see where some people who are close but under the limit might feel safe when the shouldn't be, but more information is always better than less. It would also be good for those that are over the limit but still safe. If driving safely but stopped for some other reason, they are still looking at a DUI.

[cartman]

Slight threadjack, but why are there no breathalizers in bars or available for home purchase? People who might be too drunk to drive are in no mental condition to determine if they can drive. Why not take out the guesswork? I know there were times where I was pretty sure I was well under the limit before I drove, but I would have loved to have had a breathalizer in the car to be sure.

They sell them at the Sharper Image, and I own one of them. I picked it up on sale a while back for $100.

hxxp://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/product/sku__QI500