The Rex Grossman Thread

[st.cronin]

Does anybody think he will keep his job? Does anybody still think he has a future?

I'm genuinely curious.

[Raiders Army]

I'm sure that a website will pop up: hxxp://www.firerexgrossman.com

Especially with those Go Daddy commercials.

[Coffee Warlord]

Defense < Rex today.

Rex was not good, but the defense was twice as miserable.

[Raiders Army]

Defense < Rex today.

Rex was not good, but the defense was twice as miserable.

No way. They were on the field for so long, they did a great job. Rex Grossman, on the other hand, killed drives. Fumble, Int, Int.

[st.cronin]

Defense < Rex today.

Rex was not good, but the defense was twice as miserable.

I think that's delusional. There are two defensive game plans that have worked against these Colts, and the Bears used the one that fits their talent. It worked about as well as they could have expected.

[Easy Mac]

Too bad SexyRexy.com is taken

[Julio Riddols]

Grossman has a 386 in volatility.. and for some reason, I don't think thats a bug.

I think Griese wins the job next year, and they groom a young QB under him and Grossman.

[Antmeister]

Defense < Rex today.

Rex was not good, but the defense was twice as miserable.

I actually agree with this. The defense was getting dominated by the offensive line of the Colts. And the reason why they were on the field so long is that the defense couldn't stop them on a 3rd down. Especially when Addai got his hands on the ball.

[Eaglesfan27]

Defense < Rex today.

Rex was not good, but the defense was twice as miserable.


Completely disagree. Considering how long they were on the field, the defense did very well and did everything they could to keep the game close.


As far as Rex, I think it depends upon if he can mentally recover and perform well in training camp and the pre-season. If he recovers from this defeat, I think he'll be the Bears' QB next year (and I think this part of the reason they didn't yank him this game.)

[bhlloy]

2 lame duck interceptions, 2 fumbled snaps and horrible decision making throughout is only "not good"?

To me right now Grossman is Joey Harrington - he has the potential to make good things happen, but he always seems to make the worst possible throw at the worst possible time. I don't think he has a future in the league, and if the Bears are smart they will do everything they can to find somebody else.

[st.cronin]

2 lame duck interceptions, 2 fumbled snaps and horrible decision making throughout is only "not good"?

To me right now Grossman is Joey Harrington - he has the potential to make good things happen, but he always seems to make the worst possible throw at the worst possible time. I don't think he has a future in the league, and if the Bears are smart they will do everything they can to find somebody else.

Harrington is a good comp, I think.

[Groundhog]

Those 2 fumbled snaps absolutely killed them, especially when combined with those 2 terrible INTs, not to mention that other pass (his 2nd of the game IIRC) that should have been an INT too. Rex as HORRIBLE. That's all there is to it.

[Raiders Army]

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[SFL Cat]

Aside from that one wtf pass that was intercepted and those two fumbled snaps, Grossman didn't play that badly. I think the biggest factor was that the Bears just couldn't stop the Colts on third down most of the evening.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Aside from that one wtf pass and those two fumbled snaps, Grossman didn't play that badly.

Aside from that whole gunshot thing, Lincoln didn't have that bad of a time at the theatre either.

[Raiders Army]

Aside from that whole gunshot thing, Lincoln didn't have that bad of a time at the theatre either.

LOL

[SFL Cat]

^^^ Let's just say I've seen Grossman play a whole lot worse.

[bhlloy]

I'm afraid there is no "aside from the 4 turnovers he played pretty well" for an NFL QB. Especially when it's a standard day at the office for Rex.

[st.cronin]

Here are the facts:

This was his 4th year in the NFL. He has had numerous injuries (this is often used as an excuse). His career passer rating is 72.4.

My opinion:

I can't identify a single thing he does exceptionally well, and even his defenders have to admit that he is horribly inconsistent. I think at this point you have to pull the plug.

[kcchief19]

^^^ Let's just say I've seen Grossman play a whole lot worse.
That's nothing to be proud of, Rusty.

[Eaglesfan27]

Just to clarify my point, I think he has to play more than well, but very well in training camp and pre-season to keep his job. However, he has certainly shown the ability to do that. He did have 10 or 11 very good to great games this year.



Edit: Just checked his stats and it was only 8 games, but still 8 games where his rating was over 98 (and 7 over 100) makes me think that he may show enough in training camp and pre-season to keep his job. Then again, the psychological hit of playing so poorly in this game may make him crumble.

[SFL Cat]

Grossman is like the little little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead. When he's good, he's very good, when he's bad, he sucks.

[Celeval]

It's not like the Colts didn't fumble the ball twice too - if this was someone other than Grossman, the fumbled snaps would be put to the rain, but Rex gets the discredit because of the rest of the season.

[SFL Cat]

dola -- not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if Grossman finished with a better QB rating than Roethlisberger had in last year's Super Bowl.

[kcchief19]

I actually agree with this. The defense was getting dominated by the offensive line of the Colts. And the reason why they were on the field so long is that the defense couldn't stop them on a 3rd down. Especially when Addai got his hands on the ball.
I will fault the Bears for shoddy defensive play calling, but that was coaching not playing. The Bears gameplan was to give Peyton the underneath and take away the deep ball. Aside from one play, they did that. I just think they didn't expect Peyton to be passionate enough to only throw the ball five yards downfield most of the game.

They were willing to give Peyton his yards but keep him out of the end zone. That strategy would have worked if the Bears offense could have mounted any sort of drive to control the clock. I defy anyone to find a defensive that performed better while their offense turned the ball over five times and only controlled the clock for 20 minutes. Nine times out of 10 in this scenario, the final score is 52-17.

[KWhit]

It's not like the Colts didn't fumble the ball twice too - if this was someone other than Grossman, the fumbled snaps would be put to the rain, but Rex gets the discredit because of the rest of the season.

The Colts' fumbles were on hits though. Not the exchange from center.

[KWhit]

dola -- not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if Grossman finished with a better QB rating than Roethlisberger had in last year's Super Bowl.

I bet he did, actually.

[SFL Cat]

I will fault the Bears for shoddy defensive play calling, but that was coaching not playing. The Bears gameplan was to give Peyton the underneath and take away the deep ball. Aside from one play, they did that. I just think they didn't expect Peyton to be passionate enough to only throw the ball five yards downfield most of the game.

They were willing to give Peyton his yards but keep him out of the end zone. That strategy would have worked if the Bears offense could have mounted any sort of drive to control the clock. I defy anyone to find a defensive that performed better while their offense turned the ball over five times and only controlled the clock for 20 minutes. Nine times out of 10 in this scenario, the final score is 52-17.

I thought their defensive plan was sound, but after the first couple of drives they just couldn't keep the Colts from converting on third down. They gave up a lot of rushing yards too, and not just at the end of the game when they were tired.

[molson]

It's really a complete waste for such a solid team to get by with such an awful QB. If Damon Huard or John Kitna started all 16 games for the Bears, they'd be 15-1 and Super Bowl Champions.

[MylesKnight]

Grossman looks like a guy who played QB for a College (Florida) that had better players and athletes across the board, and could get away with taking silly chances and making dumb mistakes... Thing is, he can't get away with that stuff anymore. You have to use your noggin a bit more at the Pro Level.

[st.cronin]

It's really a complete waste for such a solid team to get by with such an awful QB. If Damon Huard or John Kitna started all 16 games for the Bears, they'd be 15-1 and Super Bowl Champions.

I agree 100%.

[Marathoner]

Grossman is like the little little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead. When he's good, he's very good, when he's bad, he sucks.

What?

[Cringer]

I love Rex, I hope he keeps starting so the Bears never win the Superbowl

[SFL Cat]

Huard and Kitna have been inconsistent throughout their careers as well. That's why they call them journeymen. Even with either of them at QB, the Bears would most probably be exactly where they are now ... in 2nd place.

[MylesKnight]

It's really a complete waste for such a solid team to get by with such an awful QB. If Damon Huard or John Kitna started all 16 games for the Bears, they'd be 15-1 and Super Bowl Champions.

I agree with these comments in general. This is a team a lot like recent Super Bowl Champions Baltimore and Tampa Bay... Difference is they had QB's whose main responsibilities were to take care of the football and not lose the game. Grossman could've learned a thing or two from studying those teams Championship Seasons.

[molson]

Huard and Kitna have been inconsistent throughout their careers as well. That's why they call them journeymen. Even with either of them at QB, the Bears would most probably be exactly where they are now ... in 2nd place.

Those guys have been inconsistent, but I believe in a conservative offense, where they weren't asked to do much, they'd be fine. For a QB to be put in a situation where he is only asked not to the lose the game, and STILL crap the bed as often as Grossman is pretty amazing.

[Eaglesfan27]

Huard and Kitna have been inconsistent throughout their careers as well. That's why they call them journeymen. Even with either of them at QB, the Bears would most probably be exactly where they are now ... in 2nd place.


Exactly.

[cthomer5000]

I'm in no way confident he'll ever be a guy who you are really, really confident in. But I also think he's shown enough flashes that the Bears will give him at least another year.

[stevew]

Grossman is who I thought he was. Should have been benched with 11 mins left, Lovie should have had Greise in there at that point.

[SFL Cat]

Those guys have been inconsistent, but I believe in a conservative offense, where they weren't asked to do much, they'd be fine. For a QB to be put in a situation where he is only asked not to the lose the game, and STILL crap the bed as often as Grossman is pretty amazing.

The Bears weren't going to win tonight's game by running the ball. Granted Grossman might not be the QB who could take them to the title, but those other guys mentioned aren't either.

[Groundhog]

You know what, if Grossman had not thrown 2 interceptions and fumbled the ball twice, the Bears would have been right in this game. IMO.

[molson]

The Bears weren't going to win tonight's game by running the ball. Granted Grossman might not be the QB who could take them to the title, but those other guys mentioned aren't either.

Maybe - but if Trent Dilfer didn't win a Super Bowl just by not screwing up, he'd be in the Kitna/Huard class. All the Bears needed was mediocrity at QB, and they couldn't even get that.

[BrianD]

I'm in no way confident he'll ever be a guy who you are really, really confident in. But I also think he's shown enough flashes that the Bears will give him at least another year.

Another Jake Plummer?

[st.cronin]

Even if you don't think another qb would have led the Bears to glory, or that a better defensive effort would have won the game, I think you still have to come up with a good reason why Grossman doesn't get sent to the end of the bench next year. Does anybody think he's BETTER than Brian Griese?

[SackAttack]

You know what, if Grossman had not thrown 2 interceptions and fumbled the ball twice, the Bears would have been right in this game. IMO.

On the other hand, if the Colts hadn't had several turnovers of their own, this game wouldn't have been two-scores close.

[SFL Cat]

Maybe - but if Trent Dilfer didn't win a Super Bowl just by not screwing up, he'd be in the Kitna/Huard class. All the Bears needed was mediocrity at QB, and they couldn't even get that.

One, the Raven's defense that year was better than the Bears defense (IMO) and the Giants offense wasn't even in the same league as the Colts O. If Grossman had been the QB on that team, the Ravens still would have won.

[Easy Mac]

Even if you don't think another qb would have led the Bears to glory, or that a better defensive effort would have won the game, I think you still have to come up with a good reason why Grossman doesn't get sent to the end of the bench next year. Does anybody think he's BETTER than Brian Griese?

http://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2006/01/09/20060108215006.jpeg

[Crim]

Grossman is like the little little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead. When he's good, he's very good, when he's bad, he sucks.

:confused:

[stevew]

They totally should require that a domed roof be available for a super bowl game. I'm pretty well a traditionalist of the elements elsewhere, but football in a monsoon is not a good way to end the year.

[molson]

Even if you don't think another qb would have led the Bears to glory, or that a better defensive effort would have won the game, I think you still have to come up with a good reason why Grossman doesn't get sent to the end of the bench next year. Does anybody think he's BETTER than Brian Griese?

That's a good way of looking at it. Which of the following QBs would you choose over Grossman to start next season if you had the choice: Griese, Kitna, Huard, Plummer, Garcia, Brunell, Batch, Leftwich. I'd take all of the above

[SFL Cat]

:confused:

Sorry, with my "little girl" expression, I guess I'm showing my age a little

[ISiddiqui]

Even if you don't think another qb would have led the Bears to glory, or that a better defensive effort would have won the game, I think you still have to come up with a good reason why Grossman doesn't get sent to the end of the bench next year. Does anybody think he's BETTER than Brian Griese?

And that's the $64,000 question. I still wonder why Griese wasn't given more of a chance during the season. I mean loyalty is one thing, but this type of ultra-loyalty? Doesn't make sense.

[SFL Cat]

Griese has had his bouts with inconsistency too. Just ask the Broncos/Dolphins/Bucs.

[molson]

Griese has had his bouts with inconsistency too. Just ask the Broncos/Dolphins/Bucs.

None of those teams were close to as good as this one though.

[Crim]

As a Broncos fan, I concur... but only to a point. I do think he is a better manager when not asked to do anything spectacular than Rex.

[SFL Cat]

??? Griese's first year as a starter in Denver, the Broncos were defending Super Bowl champs.

[st.cronin]

Grossman played for one of the best teams in the league, with a good offensive line, a good running game, and a decent receiving corps. His passer rating was 73.

[st.cronin]

??? Griese's first year as a starter in Denver, the Broncos were defending Super Bowl champs.

Griese's passer rating that year: 102.9

[Grammaticus]

Grossman is probably as good as Kitna or Huard, but anyone who is starting them is probably looking for a good draft pick position next year.

[SFL Cat]

Grossman played for one of the best teams in the league, with a good offensive line, a good running game, and a decent receiving corps. His passer rating was 73.

So did Jim McMahon in 85...his rating was only 82.

[molson]

??? Griese's first year as a starter in Denver, the Broncos were defending Super Bowl champs.

And he went to the Pro Bowl and had the highest QB rating in the league his 2nd year. As inconsistent as he was, he performed very well on a good team. This Bears team (IMO) is even better.

[Fidatelo]

I don't see how anyone can think the Bears defence played poorly. The Bears offense was TERRIBLE! They had 3 first downs in the first half. Time of possesion was more than 2-to-1 Colts midway through the third quarter. Was the defense forcing 3-and-outs? No. But they were keeping the team in the game despite Rex and Co. not giving them any time to catch their breath.

[Grammaticus]

So did Jim McMahon in 85...his rating was only 82.

Yeah, but McMahon went 12 for 20 with 256 yards and NO interceptions. In the Super Bowl.

[Rizon]

My bets are that Grossman is out of the league by 2008. In all honesty, he just isn't good enough to be a backup or warrant a roster spot.

[ISiddiqui]

Griese has had his bouts with inconsistency too. Just ask the Broncos/Dolphins/Bucs.

The error is assuming all inconsistency is equal. Griese has bouts with inconsistency, but Grossman has boughts with INCONSISTENCY!

[SackAttack]

The error is assuming all inconsistency is equal. Griese has bouts with inconsistency, but Grossman has boughts with INCONSISTENCY!

Grossman has been consistent in sucking ass in that when he sucks, he's consistently terrible.

The problem is he isn't consistently consistently terrible. Some days he looks somewhat competent, and it fools people into believing that his consistent ass-sucking isn't the REAL Rex Grossman!

[Easy Mac]

jake plummer?

[st.cronin]

Another way to think about this is what would happen if the Bears were to release Rex Grossman. How many teams would be interested in signing him? I think practically none, although I admit I don't know for sure.

[Grammaticus]

Another way to think about this is what would happen if the Bears were to release Rex Grossman. How many teams would be interested in signing him? I think practically none, although I admit I don't know for sure.

Unfortunately Miami would probably take a look :mad:

[stevew]

Another way to think about this is what would happen if the Bears were to release Rex Grossman. How many teams would be interested in signing him? I think practically none, although I admit I don't know for sure.

He'd get at least 10 offers or more if he was cut. It's just that they would all be one year crap offers to battle for a backup/sucky team starting job in training camp. Now if that didn't work out for him, and he didn't make a roster, yeah, I think he'd probably be close to done. See Tim Couch.

[stevew]

Off the top of my head...

Green Bay, Miami, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Cincy, Jacksonville, Detroit, Houston, and Philly probably would all be interested for starters...

(basically a short list of teams with sketchy qb's or no real backups)

[st.cronin]

He'd get at least 10 offers or more if he was cut. It's just that they would all be one year crap offers to battle for a backup/sucky team starting job in training camp. Now if that didn't work out for him, and he didn't make a roster, yeah, I think he'd probably be close to done. See Tim Couch.

I think it would be more like the Jay Fiedler experience, where he'd have to wait til somebody got hurt in preseason to get a call.

The most puzzling thing to me about all this is how Bears fans are pretty much all ok with him. With a real qb, they could be on the verge of a Patriots type dynasty. But they have to put up with this joker, and that's ok? :confused:

[stevew]

I think it would be more like the Jay Fiedler experience, where he'd have to wait til somebody got hurt in preseason to get a call.

The most puzzling thing to me about all this is how Bears fans are pretty much all ok with him. With a real qb, they could be on the verge of a Patriots type dynasty. But they have to put up with this joker, and that's ok? :confused:

I think he's still young enough to have a perceived "upside" and therefore isn't a Fiedler type(yet). He still had 8 games w/ a rating of 98 or higher. He is just way too hot or cold.

[PackerFanatic]

As much as people will want to diss Rex today, and despite his INT's (which, yes, were bad), he wasn't the MAIN reason for the loss today. The Colts outplayed them, through and through. Yes, Rex could have played better and maybe helped them a little more...but I don't think anything would have beat the Colts today.

[dime]

coming out of college, grossman resembled favre quite a bit. he still does, really. next time he makes some terrible pass just imagine john madden chuckling about how much fun he's having out there, and joe theismann explaining that it was the receiver's fault, or that he didn't have enough time to throw the football.

[Daimyo]

This was Grossman's 4th season, but because of the injuries he's played barely more than a season's worth of games. He was terribly inconsistent this year, but did show flashes of brilliance. I don't think there is enough to make a decision yet, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with him if I was a Bear's fan.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I say this with no offense to sucky quarterbacks, but Rex Grossman sucks. That pass to Hayden was classic Rex Grossman.

[Fidatelo]

coming out of college, grossman resembled favre quite a bit. he still does, really. next time he makes some terrible pass just imagine john madden chuckling about how much fun he's having out there, and joe theismann explaining that it was the receiver's fault, or that he didn't have enough time to throw the football.

This comparison is a joke. In Favre's 4th year he had 33 TD's, 14 INT's, and a 90.7 QB rating. He followed this up with 3 straight MVP's and a Super Bowl victory. He also has some kind of ironman streak going, I think your boy Madden has mentioned that before.

In the meantime, Grossman just completed his 4th season with 23 TD's, 20 INT's, and a 73.9 QB rating. You could argue that it's really only his first full season as a starter, but then that doesn't look so good when being compared to the most durable quarterback in history.

I think people are forgetting how freaking good Favre was because of the way he has played the last few years. Grossman can't carry the man's jockstrap.

[Franklinnoble]

Grossman looks like a guy who played QB for a College (Florida) that had better players and athletes across the board, and could get away with taking silly chances and making dumb mistakes... Thing is, he can't get away with that stuff anymore. You have to use your noggin a bit more at the Pro Level.

I've seen this TV show before... only the original version starred Steve Spurrier and Danny Wuerffel on the set of the Washington Redskins.

[SFL Cat]

As a Cowboys fan, I just remember before he got it together and starting going to Super Bowls, you could always count on Favre to throw an interception at the worst possible time for the Pack.

[miami_fan]

I think Grossman needs a great (not good) QB coach. Watching last night's game, I was suprised at how terrible his mechanics are. It seemed like every throw he made was all arm. He refused to step into any throw he made.

[miami_fan]

Unfortunately Miami would probably take a look :mad:

DON'T ENCOURAGE THEM!:mad:

[albionmoonlight]

This was Grossman's 4th season, but because of the injuries he's played barely more than a season's worth of games. He was terribly inconsistent this year, but did show flashes of brilliance. I don't think there is enough to make a decision yet, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with him if I was a Bear's fan.

That's what makes this an interesting problem for the Bears.

Let's assume for the sake of this argument that Grossman still has the potential to be really good, but that he will need to play through growing pains to reach that potential.

But the Bears have a Super Bowl team right now, and in the era of free agency and parity, those windows can close pretty quickly.

So, do you let your quarterback of the future play through his growing pains and cause you possibly to miss your chance during your window, or do you dump the quarterback of the future and try to find the quarterback of the present?

[Butter]

Grossman played like an All-Pro when Chicago got off to it's unbeaten start. They have to decide if he can consistently play that way, or if that was just some combination of dumb luck/bad defenses.

Personally, I think he's finished. It's hard to overcome a loss on a big stage like this.

[Ksyrup]

You know what was hilarious was that at halftime, pretty much every commentator was talking about how bad Grossman was playing. At that point, he was 6/8 with 1 TD, 1 fumble, and a QB rating of 120.8. They weren't asking him to do a lot, but when they did, he actually delivered for the most part - the fumble didn't even cost them any points. It was as if they were reading from a script of what they knew was going to happen, it just hadn't happened yet, but they went with the script anyway, knowing they'd eventually be proven right.

[TroyF]

Grossman has been consistent in sucking ass in that when he sucks, he's consistently terrible.

The problem is he isn't consistently consistently terrible. Some days he looks somewhat competent, and it fools people into believing that his consistent ass-sucking isn't the REAL Rex Grossman!

that's just it, he's not consistent in sucking ass and when he looks "somewhat competent" he looks GREAT. Eight games with a QB rating of over 100. That's Peyton Manning territory. Then you have all the garbage games which is Jake Plummer territory.

At the end of the day, it's far to early to make a final judgement and pull the plug. He has 24 career starts. Love him, hate him, want him shot. . . he played a part in getting the Bears to the big game. Even an average training camp and he's the starter again.

if he doesn't show more consistency game to game next year, you have to think about pulling the plug. I think it's far to early to do that right now.

[cuervo72]

Sorry, with my "little girl" expression, I guess I'm showing my age a little

http://www.answers.com/topic/there-was-a-little-girl-who-had-a-little-curl

[Rizon]

DON'T ENCOURAGE THEM!:mad:

Do we have a 2nd round pick this year?

[Ksyrup]

http://hitparade.ch/cdimages/milli_vanilli-blame_it_on_the_rain_s.jpg

[gottimd]

I've seen this TV show before... only the original version starred Steve Spurrier and Danny Wuerffel on the set of the Washington Redskins.

I believe Danny Awful was with New Orleans before that, so I guess that was the prequel?:D Didn't he win a World Bowl:eek:

[gstelmack]

My concern with Grossman last night was the number of 2-3 yard dumpoffs he threw. That kept his completion percentage up, and thus his rating. What did he end up with, 8 yards per completion? You want a QB who hits 8 yards per attempt.

And both picks were abysmal throws. On the double-move one, if he throws it downfield he's got a shot at Muhammed deep. The DB was just sitting there as Muhammed blew by, and Grossman chucked it up straight at the DB. And then there was the Hayden pick...

Grossman was way off much of the night.

[flere-imsaho]

I'm still willing to blame Ron Turner as much as Rex Grossman. Why he's having Grossman throwing bombs with 9 minutes to go, in the rain, with the Colts' lead not insurmountable, is beyond me.

[cthomer5000]

I'm still willing to blame Ron Turner as much as Rex Grossman. Why he's having Grossman throwing bombs with 9 minutes to go, in the rain, with the Colts' lead not insurmountable, is beyond me.

I think there is a big difference between calling a play where there is a deep route and ordering your QB to simply lob it downfield. My guess is the play happened to have a deep route, and Grossman simply lost his mind.

[Daimyo]

After having some to think about the game I think a lot of the blame should go to the play calling. Basically the Bears had two options... either play the Colt's like their regular season defense was for real or play them like the playoffs were for real. The Bears chose to play them like the regular season, and ran all the time on 1st and 2nd down. Unforetunately for the Bears the Colt's postseason defense showed up and that left the Bears with 3rd and 4+ every time. Asking Rex to pass only on 3rd and medium to long is not a recipe for success.

In the second half when the Colts went up 22-17 the Bears finally moved off that gameplan, but they went extreme in the opposite direction and started attacking the edges downfield which plays into the strength of the Colt's cover-2. They had a lot of success going to Clark over the middle... that should have been the foundation of their gameplan from the start.

[Eaglesfan27]

Off the top of my head...

Green Bay, Miami, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Cincy, Jacksonville, Detroit, Houston, and Philly probably would all be interested for starters...

(basically a short list of teams with sketchy qb's or no real backups)


Again, Philly does not have a sketchy starter. McNabb was on pace to be a top 5 QB last year and has been great the last few years. He only damaged one ligament in his knee instead of all 3, and there is no reason to think he won't come back and be a very good to great QB again (especially since he has been relying less on mobility for the last few years.)


Edit: I misread it the first time and thought we were talking about Rex as a starter. As a backup, I could see Philly being interested.

[wade moore]

After having some to think about the game I think a lot of the blame should go to the play calling. Basically the Bears had two options... either play the Colt's like their regular season defense was for real or play them like the playoffs were for real. The Bears chose to play them like the regular season, and ran all the time on 1st and 2nd down. Unforetunately for the Bears the Colt's postseason defense showed up and that left the Bears with 3rd and 4+ every time. Asking Rex to pass only on 3rd and medium to long is not a recipe for success.

Just to support this..

<table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="home" align="left"><td class="home" colspan="5">RUSHING</td></tr> <tr class="bg4" align="center"><td> </td><td>ATT</td><td>YDS</td><td>TD</td><td>LG</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">T. Jones (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187390)</td><td>15</td><td>112</td><td>0</td><td>52</td></tr><tr class="bg3" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">R. Grossman (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396159)</td><td>2</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">C. Benson (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/406400)</td><td>2</td><td>-1</td><td>0</td><td>4</td></tr></tbody></table>

Take out that 52 yard run, and it's 14 carries for 60 yards for Jones. That is counting some garbage 10ish yard runs in the 4th on draw plays with like 2nd and 20 with 3 WR's in.

Anyone that points this loss for the Bears at one player or position is not thinking logically at the game. Let's face it, the Bears played poorly in almost every facet of the game:

No Running Game, Grossman was bad, the Bears DLine was bad (1 sack, almost 200 rushing yards allowed), Bad special teams coverage (Wilkins averaged 22.2 on kick returns, 14 on Punt Returns)...

The only place the Bears really excelled was in Red Zone Defense.

Now, I would also consider the flip-side which seems to be ignored a bit. The Colts are good. The Colts put together a very good game and executed their gameplan very well. It was said many times in the broadcast, but it's true... the Colts don't really do anything special or try to fool you (besides peyton's girations at the line) - they just line up and execute, and that's what they did.

[st.cronin]

that's just it, he's not consistent in sucking ass and when he looks "somewhat competent" he looks GREAT. Eight games with a QB rating of over 100. That's Peyton Manning territory. Then you have all the garbage games which is Jake Plummer territory.

At the end of the day, it's far to early to make a final judgement and pull the plug. He has 24 career starts. Love him, hate him, want him shot. . . he played a part in getting the Bears to the big game. Even an average training camp and he's the starter again.

if he doesn't show more consistency game to game next year, you have to think about pulling the plug. I think it's far to early to do that right now.

I don't think he played as well in his "good" games as people think. This is a matter of opinion, but I remember early in the year, when he was playing "well," and even then I thought he looked pretty shaky.

[wade moore]

I don't think he played as well in his "good" games as people think. This is a matter of opinion, but I remember early in the year, when he was playing "well," and even then I thought he looked pretty shaky.
I think he had a lot of Berrian wide open down the field.

[st.cronin]

Now, I would also consider the flip-side which seems to be ignored a bit. The Colts are good. The Colts put together a very good game and executed their gameplan very well. It was said many times in the broadcast, but it's true... the Colts don't really do anything special or try to fool you (besides peyton's girations at the line) - they just line up and execute, and that's what they did.

Oh, I totally agree. That's why I started a different thread, rather than try to have this chat in the super bowl thread.

[ISiddiqui]

dola... stupid board

[ISiddiqui]

Again, Philly does not have a sketchy starter. McNabb was on pace to be a top 5 QB last year and has been great the last few years. He only damaged one ligament in his knee instead of all 3, and there is no reason to think he won't come back and be a very good to great QB again (especially since he has been relying less on mobility for the last few years.)<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

He said sketchy QB's OR no real backups. After Garcia is gone in free agency (and he will be). Who is McNabb's backup?

[wade moore]

Oh, I totally agree. That's why I started a different thread, rather than try to have this chat in the super bowl thread.

Gotcha, totally ignored that thread cause i wasn't going to catchup on over 10 pages ;)...

Anyway.. i think it was a combination of a lot of things, but Grossman is certainly not the only player on the Bears that played poorly, and not the only one on the offense. So, I think to judge on this game would be unfair, however, he does have a pretty impressive body of bad games.

[Poli]

Quit posting here cronin and get over to WW!

[Eaglesfan27]

<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

He said sketchy QB's OR no real backups. After Garcia is gone in free agency (and he will be). Who is McNabb's backup?


I edited. I misread it at first. I can see Philly being interested in Rex as a backup/insurance if McNabb's recovery gets off schedule.

[TroyF]

I don't think he played as well in his "good" games as people think. This is a matter of opinion, but I remember early in the year, when he was playing "well," and even then I thought he looked pretty shaky.

I'm probably split with you here. I don't think he's nearly as bad as what you are saying and I don't think he was as nearly as good in the 100+ rated games as people think.

But I'm firm in the fact that it's way to early to be making judgments about the guys future. 24 starts is not enough to make a conclusion that a QB has it or doesn't have it. I think there needs to be another season worth of starts before you really evaluate the QB.

Just an example. . . take a look at Drew Brees first 28 starts in the league. Then take a peak at his next three seasons worth of games.

Now, I don't think Rex is as good as Brees. He's certainly not as accurate. But I also don't think you can say with any certainty that Rex can't improve and be better either.

I want to see another full season before I stick him with the "he's garbage" tag. The amusing thing to me is that some Eli Manning supporters (not many on this board, but a few) have continued to state "he's young, give him some time" Eli now has 41 career starts.

If I had to predict right now, I'd say Grossman will be a decent QB. . . about 3 years down the road with another team. Not a great QB. Not a pro bowler, but solid. I think it's gonna be tough for him to succeed with the Bears now. He's where Griese was a few years ago in Denver. He could go 26-29 455 yards 3 TD's and 1 INT. . . and if the defense fell apart and he lost a game 44-41, he'd be blamed for ruining the game with his INT in the first quarter.

[wade moore]

I'm pretty much with Troy. And let's face it, what other options do they have? They have a low draft pick and the FA market is pretty sparce.

[Daimyo]

I think they should start him next year (assuming he doesn't totally fall apart and lose the job in TC to Griese), but keep a shorter leash. If they don't see improvement and consistency by about week 8 they should go to Griese. Grossman deserves another chance, but at the same time the team can't let him ruin their chances.

[Daimyo]

DOLA, how many teams are kicking themselves now for not going hard after Brees last year?

[rkmsuf]

how can people say grossman isn't bad. he has very little command out there and while his superbowl numbers are average they are not indicative of him making zero plays and fumbling two snaps.

guy honestly looks clueless out there mostly I think because he's below average talent wise and horribly inconsistent. can't even be consistently mediocre.

[st.cronin]

I'm probably split with you here. I don't think he's nearly as bad as what you are saying and I don't think he was as nearly as good in the 100+ rated games as people think.

But I'm firm in the fact that it's way to early to be making judgments about the guys future. 24 starts is not enough to make a conclusion that a QB has it or doesn't have it. I think there needs to be another season worth of starts before you really evaluate the QB.

Just an example. . . take a look at Drew Brees first 28 starts in the league. Then take a peak at his next three seasons worth of games.

Now, I don't think Rex is as good as Brees. He's certainly not as accurate. But I also don't think you can say with any certainty that Rex can't improve and be better either.

I want to see another full season before I stick him with the "he's garbage" tag. The amusing thing to me is that some Eli Manning supporters (not many on this board, but a few) have continued to state "he's young, give him some time" Eli now has 41 career starts.

If I had to predict right now, I'd say Grossman will be a decent QB. . . about 3 years down the road with another team. Not a great QB. Not a pro bowler, but solid. I think it's gonna be tough for him to succeed with the Bears now. He's where Griese was a few years ago in Denver. He could go 26-29 455 yards 3 TD's and 1 INT. . . and if the defense fell apart and he lost a game 44-41, he'd be blamed for ruining the game with his INT in the first quarter.


If the Bears were the 49ers I would understand this better. But with their team, they have no business goofing around with a guy who might be good.

And Eli has been much better than Rex, on a team that's not as good.

[wade moore]

If the Bears were the 49ers I would understand this better. But with their team, they have no business goofing around with a guy who might be good.

And Eli has been much better than Rex, on a team that's not as good.

Again, what other options do the Bears have? Who out there that they can realistically get is better?

[gkb]

Maybe my recollection is fuzzy, but when Griese was with Denver it seemed he would turn the ball over at the worst possible time. Usually late in the game when the Broncos had a chance to win. I don't think he's anyone's answer at quarterback...Jake Plummer isn't either. With Brian you kind of get the sense that he's really managing the game well and then all of sudden he'll fumble the snap or throw a horrible interception. Jake just isn't a good decision maker, on or off the field. Would the Bears have won the SuperBowl if Griese was the starter? In my opinion, no...is it too late to get Brees?

[TroyF]

If the Bears were the 49ers I would understand this better. But with their team, they have no business goofing around with a guy who might be good.

And Eli has been much better than Rex, on a team that's not as good.



The Giants have more weapons and a far better overall offense than the Bears. The Giants runners averaged over a yard more per carry than did the Bears backs. And the stats of Grossman, in his first full year as an NFL starter and Eli in his 2.5 year as a full time starter were damned near identical.

Honestly, I don't think I could agree with anything you've stated here. As for where the Bears go, what would you suggest? Culpepper? Matt Schaub? Jeff Garcia? Jake Plummer? Brian Griese?

Are there some pro bowl calibur QB's out there I'm forgetting that the Bears could ink this offseason? I don't see it. He's started 1 full season and has 24 starts under his belt. To make long lasting judgements on him after that amount of time is a bit wacko IMHO.

It's easy for people to get caught up in how horrible Rex was at certain points this year and overlook the fact that he was the starting QB on a team that went 13-3, had home field advantage throughout the playoffs and went to the Super Bowl in his first year as a starting QB. Yeah, he struggled at times. He also excelled at times. It's what young QB's do.

I'm not writing him off yet. You are supposed to gain consistency the longer you are a starter. I'll wait until next year before I judge.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

how can people say grossman isn't bad. he has very little command out there and while his superbowl numbers are average they are not indicative of him making zero plays and fumbling two snaps.

guy honestly looks clueless out there mostly I think because he's below average talent wise and horribly inconsistent. can't even be consistently mediocre.

It was actually 3 snaps fumbled (he recovered one).

I agree with this. It may be too early to tell if he is terrible. But it is late enough to know he won't be very good.

[kcchief19]

Despite the fact that I have Shannon Sharpe, I'm thinking about dropping him an invite to join FOFC. I think he would fit in well here:

“Rex Grossman is who I thought he was — very inconsistent. … He needs to take care of the luggage.” | CBS studio analyst Shannon Sharpe, talking about Grossman’s inexcusable fumbled snap and mediocre first half.
It's just a matter of time before he asks Dan Marino, "Which better team Colts or Bears."

[st.cronin]

Honestly, I don't think I could agree with anything you've stated here. As for where the Bears go, what would you suggest? Culpepper? Matt Schaub? Jeff Garcia? Jake Plummer? Brian Griese?

It's easy for people to get caught up in how horrible Rex was at certain points this year and overlook the fact that he was the starting QB on a team that went 13-3, had home field advantage throughout the playoffs and went to the Super Bowl in his first year as a starting QB. Yeah, he struggled at times. He also excelled at times. It's what young QB's do.

I'm not writing him off yet. You are supposed to gain consistency the longer you are a starter. I'll wait until next year before I judge.


I think all of those guys you mentioned are, or were at one point, clearly better than Grossman. Maybe Griese hasn't recovered from his injuries, I don't know. And the bolded part is what I strongly disagree with. Lots of people thought he looked good early in the season. I saw no difference between him and Kyle Orton. I still don't.

[TroyF]

I think all of those guys you mentioned are, or were at one point, clearly better than Grossman. Maybe Griese hasn't recovered from his injuries, I don't know. And the bolded part is what I strongly disagree with. Lots of people thought he looked good early in the season. I saw no difference between him and Kyle Orton. I still don't.

I'm sorry, but that's insanity. Grossman, if he does nothing else, throws a superior deep ball to Orton.

And Grossman did excell at many times throughout the year. They don't win the Tampa Bay game late in the season if Grossman doesn't go off. He took a team that gave up 209 passing yards a game and scorched them for 339. In 11 of his starts, Grossman went 207-336 (61%+) for 2,596 yards with 22 TD's and 4 INT's.

In the other 5 games he went 55-144 (38%) with 1TD adn 16 INT.

So what you have is a guy who played either terrific or he sucked ass. But. . . he played terrific far more than he sucked ass. He was pretty damned good about 70% of the time. He was horrific the other 30%.

Now, say what you want, but I'm not sure how you do what he did in those 11 games and say he sucked or was an average QB. In those 11 starts, he was a stud, no matter how you want to explain things. In the other 5 he was the single worst QB in the NFL. If he's even "average" in those other 5 starts, he's a pro bowler.

If this were a veteran guy with 50+ games under his belt, I'd say everyone was right to give up on him. As he's a young guy with only a full season under his belt, I think much of the criticism being directed at him is unwarranted at this time.

[st.cronin]

I'm sorry, but that's insanity. Grossman, if he does nothing else, throws a superior deep ball to Orton.

And Grossman did excell at many times throughout the year. They don't win the Tampa Bay game late in the season if Grossman doesn't go off. He took a team that gave up 209 passing yards a game and scorched them for 339. In 11 of his starts, Grossman went 207-336 (61%+) for 2,596 yards with 22 TD's and 4 INT's.

In the other 5 games he went 55-144 (38%) with 1TD adn 16 INT.

So what you have is a guy who played either terrific or he sucked ass. But. . . he played terrific far more than he sucked ass. He was pretty damned good about 70% of the time. He was horrific the other 30%.

Now, say what you want, but I'm not sure how you do what he did in those 11 games and say he sucked or was an average QB. In those 11 starts, he was a stud, no matter how you want to explain things. In the other 5 he was the single worst QB in the NFL. If he's even "average" in those other 5 starts, he's a pro bowler.

If this were a veteran guy with 50+ games under his belt, I'd say everyone was right to give up on him. As he's a young guy with only a full season under his belt, I think much of the criticism being directed at him is unwarranted at this time.

The Super Bowl was the first time I had seen "bad Rex" but in his good games I didn't think he was doing much right, and posted as much during the season. His vaunted "deep ball" isn't that good. I think the team carried him. Just my opinion.

[Dunleavy]

look i'm a Bears fan who defended Rex all season long but anyone who doesnt think Grossman played poorly is mental. 2 fumbles and 2 int's and i lost count of how many failed 3rd downs

down 17-22 in the 4th Q Grossman threw back to back INT's = Case Closed

...i should say the rain REALLY hurt Grossman, no rain i think he plays better. that said it's rain, deal with it

[Coffee Warlord]

I don't think anyone will deny that Grossman was bad. Very bad.

I still say, aside from Hester and Gould, the entire team was miserable. O-Line blocking was horrid, defense, as I've said many times already, was god AWFUL. Grossman is not good enough to carry a team. Grossman, at this point in his career, when he is rushed and feels he has to carry a team, fucks up. Often very very badly. Putting the blame soley on Grossman is insane.

That said, I still think there's the potential for him to be very, very good. I thoroughly believe the problems he has are correctable.

[Dunleavy]

defense, as I've said many times already, was god AWFUL.


dont say that, mid way through the 4th Q they had forced 3 turnovers and allowed a not a lot, not a little 22 points. considering the offense they were up against and more so their own offense they were up against (6 turnovers and -4 first downs) they played well. if you expected 85' defense or the MNF vs Arizona Defense that would win the game all by themselves thats a bit unfair. having said that the DL and S were poor and all units missed tackles. still they keep the Colts to FG's more times then TD's and got 3 take aways

[Coffee Warlord]

I expected a pass rush. I expected an adjustment at halftime to jam the receivers, not give them the underneath pass ALL FREAKING NIGHT. I expected at least some ability to stop the run.

Yes, in the red zone they did well. Everywhere else they were piss poor.

Edit: And no, I cannot accept the 'they were tired and on the field too long' argument. They brought that on themselves as much as Bad Rex did.

[kcchief19]

Honestly, I don't think I could agree with anything you've stated here. As for where the Bears go, what would you suggest? Culpepper? Matt Schaub? Jeff Garcia? Jake Plummer? Brian Griese?
You've spend enough time defending Plummer in the past that you should think that he's a significant upgrade from Grossman. But the facct that you throw those names out there says it all -- this is career path of Rex Grossman. He's not going to be Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. He's going to be a washout who might one day get a career as a journeyman QB. He's not going to win a Super Bowl without a LOT of help.
It's easy for people to get caught up in how horrible Rex was at certain points this year and overlook the fact that he was the starting QB on a team that went 13-3, had home field advantage throughout the playoffs and went to the Super Bowl in his first year as a starting QB. Yeah, he struggled at times. He also excelled at times. It's what young QB's do.
By that logic, Trent Dilfer is a great QB. The Bears didn't go 13-3 because of Rex Grossman. The Good Rex/Bad Rex analysis is much too simplistic. Grossman was good the first month of the season, but over the last 12 games he had two very good games, one good game, four below average games and five absolute god awful train wrecks. Those weren't bad games -- they were Ryan Leaf-esque.

Even the games he played well in have asterisks -- most of them were against teams going absolutely nowhere. Even in the games he had good numbers, some of them weren't due to him, they were due to his receivers playing out of their ass and catching balls they had reason to expect catching. Every QB will get those from time to time, but in Rex's case it was more pronounced because in his bad games it wasn't because of his receivers, it was because of him.

If the Bears want to win the Super Bowl next year, they need to trade for Ray Lewis or upgrade at quarterback. Grossman will never be more than a caretaker, and if you're going to win with a guy like that you're going to have to get lucky or be utterly dominate on defense. The Bears defense is good, but not quite that good.

[larrymcg421]

I'm sorry, but that's insanity. Grossman, if he does nothing else, throws a superior deep ball to Orton.

And Grossman did excell at many times throughout the year. They don't win the Tampa Bay game late in the season if Grossman doesn't go off. He took a team that gave up 209 passing yards a game and scorched them for 339. In 11 of his starts, Grossman went 207-336 (61%+) for 2,596 yards with 22 TD's and 4 INT's.

In the other 5 games he went 55-144 (38%) with 1TD adn 16 INT.

So what you have is a guy who played either terrific or he sucked ass. But. . . he played terrific far more than he sucked ass. He was pretty damned good about 70% of the time. He was horrific the other 30%.


To be fair, you're fudging the numbers a bit here. For him to be a stud in 11 games, you must be including the following games:

Week 3: 23 for 41, 278 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT
Week 11: 11 for 22, 119 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Week 16: 20 for 36, 197 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT

If we combine those games with the other 5, it makes things look different...

In 8 games, he was 109 for 243 (44.8%), 1191 yards, 4 TD, 18 INT
In the other 8 games, he was 153 for 257 (64.5%), 19 TD, 2 INT

We can fudge it further the other way by saying he was terrible in 11 games. If you just pick up 3 of his good games and mix it in with the bad numbers, you get...

In 11 games, he was 159 for 327 (48.6%), 1867 yards, 9 TD, 19 INT
In 5 games, he was 103 for 153 (67.3%), 1326 yards, 14 TD, 1 INT

Now I wouldn't say this is an accurate description of his play this season, but neither were your numbers.

[Izulde]

I have to wonder how the game changes if Benson doesn't get hurt in the first half and rob the Bears of their 1-2 punch at RB.

[Daimyo]

If you think the Bears defense played poorly, you must not have watched many Colts games over the last five years. The Bears defense played them admirably... about as well as you can expect a 4-3 defense to play them.

The offensive gameplan is what killed the Bears. Rex played poorly, but his coaches put him in poor situations the whole game. The Bears should have attacked the middle of the Colt's zone with Clark... the few times they did that they were able to move the ball okay.

[Coffee Warlord]

If you think the Bears defense played poorly, you must not have watched many Colts games over the last five years. The Bears defense played them admirably... about as well as you can expect a 4-3 defense to play them.

When I'm seeing people that open all day, there's a problem. Outside receivers should not be wide open 8-12 yards downfield all game without making an adjustment.

[Easy Mac]

Well, when they made an adjustment, Reggie Wayne was wide open 30 yards downfield... so pick your poison.

[larrymcg421]

Well, when they made an adjustment, Reggie Wayne was wide open 30 yards downfield... so pick your poison.

That was a blown assignment, not an adjustment.

[TroyF]

To be fair, you're fudging the numbers a bit here. For him to be a stud in 11 games, you must be including the following games:

Week 3: 23 for 41, 278 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT
Week 11: 11 for 22, 119 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
Week 16: 20 for 36, 197 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT

If we combine those games with the other 5, it makes things look different...

In 8 games, he was 109 for 243 (44.8%), 1191 yards, 4 TD, 18 INT
In the other 8 games, he was 153 for 257 (64.5%), 19 TD, 2 INT

We can fudge it further the other way by saying he was terrible in 11 games. If you just pick up 3 of his good games and mix it in with the bad numbers, you get...

In 11 games, he was 159 for 327 (48.6%), 1867 yards, 9 TD, 19 INT
In 5 games, he was 103 for 153 (67.3%), 1326 yards, 14 TD, 1 INT

Now I wouldn't say this is an accurate description of his play this season, but neither were your numbers.

Sorry, two of those three games were above average games and the third was a road win where he didn't make a mistake. Maybe not a stud there, but certainly a game he helped win.

I still assert he played well in those 11 games and that how horrific he was in the other five are why people think he sucked ass. You are entitled to think differently if you choose.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

If you call having your WRs catch jump balls all game as playing well, then you're right, he played well in those 11 games. By chance, did the bulk of those "well played" games come against division "rivals" Detroit, Green Bay, and Minnesota?

[Surtt]

I know his second game (at home) against Minn was not a very good one for him.

6 of 19 for 34 yards, 0 td 3 int, 1.3 qb raiting

[Dunleavy]

That was a blown assignment, not an adjustment.

it seemed like the Wayne TD snake bit the Bears defensive aggressiveness and b/c they didn't biltz the TE's and RB released for alot of underneath stuff. still it was the bend but dont break defense. look at the stats, they gave up nearly 450 yards plus their offense turned the ball over 5 times but only gave up two offenseive touchdowns. the Bears defense didnt win the game all by themself but they gave the offense 3 Q's to wake up and score a go ahead TD

[hoopsguy]

As someone who is not a Bears fan who watched every one of their games this year here are my thoughts on him:

1. He is the best pure passer this team has seen in my 34 year lifetime - that says volumes about the guys that the Bears have had at QB. But I believe he has the ability to be a good NFL QB.
2. He does throw a good deep ball when given protection to do so.
3. On intermediate passes, when given time he is very accurate. He hits guys in stride, allowing for YAC that is not just the receiver making a juke, beating his man, etc
4. He is wretched at dealing with a pass rush, particularly up the middle. He is afraid to step up in the pocket, he constantly throws off his back foot, and he has zero instinct to escape a rush
5. He fumbles way too much when hit by pass rushers, which is even worse given the high number of interceptions he throws when he is under duress.
6. He has a tendency to make decisions on where he is going with the ball pre-snap. This really became exacerbated when he was going through his funk after the hot start and everyone in Chicago started giving him advice. This is most obvious when he checks down to RBs before the play has fully developed, costing them a chance to pick up meaningful yards.

The Bears O-Line is not as good as people made it out to be this year. Kruetz is a stud, Tait is pretty good, and Brown is doing a nice job defying Father Time. The rest of the guys on that line are marginal starters or decent reserves, in my opinion.

Grossman is going to get better with decision making next year, and going forward. He is likely going to get more comfortable with a short passing game. I would hope he gets a little better at protecting the football when hit, but think this is the least correctable of his issues.

Suggesting he is no better than Kyle Orton implies that you haven't watched both of these guys play or insanity. I don't think there is middle ground on this point.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I like your judgment here, since it is based on actually watching full games rather than just stats. I felt the same way about Brady a few years back when I watched all the Pats games and I was debating with people just relying on stats, espn highlights, and watching 2 games.

Perhaps he has some upside then. The one problem however is that most NFL QBs who have enough time to throw the ball are very good. It's when things are hot in the pocket that the best shine. This does not bode well for Grossman since I believe pocket presence is entirely instinctual rather than learned. But I guess we'll see next year because regardless of the debate here, I do believe Lovie Smith is going to stick with him for next season.

[stevew]

After seeing subpar QB's foul up way too many potential championship opportunities, I hope that one day Bears fans will be rewarded with a good performance when it matters. As long as it isn't vs the Steelers.

[Raiders Army]

He was a lot better than Andrew Walter/Aaron Brooks this year.

[Franklinnoble]

1. He is the best pure passer this team has seen in my 34 year lifetime - that says volumes about the guys that the Bears have had at QB. But I believe he has the ability to be a good NFL QB.
2. He does throw a good deep ball when given protection to do so.
3. On intermediate passes, when given time he is very accurate. He hits guys in stride, allowing for YAC that is not just the receiver making a juke, beating his man, etc
4. He is wretched at dealing with a pass rush, particularly up the middle. He is afraid to step up in the pocket, he constantly throws off his back foot, and he has zero instinct to escape a rush
5. He fumbles way too much when hit by pass rushers, which is even worse given the high number of interceptions he throws when he is under duress.
6. He has a tendency to make decisions on where he is going with the ball pre-snap. This really became exacerbated when he was going through his funk after the hot start and everyone in Chicago started giving him advice. This is most obvious when he checks down to RBs before the play has fully developed, costing them a chance to pick up meaningful yards.


You just described Jeff George (minus the attitude problem).

[PackerFanatic]

He was a lot better than Andrew Walter/Aaron Brooks this year.

That isn't saying a whole lot...

[watravaler]

If you call having your WRs catch jump balls all game as playing well, then you're right, he played well in those 11 games. By chance, did the bulk of those "well played" games come against division "rivals" Detroit, Green Bay, and Minnesota?

You don't really know what you're talking about...

[stevew]

Well, when they made an adjustment, Reggie Wayne was wide open 30 yards downfield... so pick your poison.

I so thought that was a "happy feet" throw, and would be coming back the other way when manning made it. It was like some backyard football play, off of his back foot and everything.

[Logan]

I so thought that was a "happy feet" throw, and would be coming back the other way when manning made it. It was like some backyard football play, off of his back foot and everything.

Upon seeing the replay, it appears it was a "holy shit, look how wide open he is, better not take long in getting it to him" throw.

[Pumpy Tudors]

If Aaron Brooks is the quarterback and has a receiver as wide open as Reggie Wayne was, what happens? Does Brooks throw a 30-yard strike backwards? Does Brooks ignore the receiver and try to run for yardage? Does Brooks get so excited that he fumbles the ball?

raiders looking great in preseason

[hoopsguy]

You just described Jeff George (minus the attitude problem).

Given that I went to U of I at the same time George was there, he is a guy I know a fair amount as well. A huge difference is that George had an unbelievable arm and prototypical size - Grossman does not. Another difference not noted earlier - Grossman is very well liked by his teammates, which is a stark contrast to George who couldn't get into some fraternity parties while leading Illinois to a New Years Day bowl game because he was such a worthless dick. And that is saying something when you are talking about college athletes :eek:

But I agree with the general sentiment that an awful lot of my description would apply to George as well.

[Logan]

If Aaron Brooks is the quarterback and has a receiver as wide open as Reggie Wayne was, what happens? Does Brooks throw a 30-yard strike backwards? Does Brooks ignore the receiver and try to run for yardage? Does Brooks get so excited that he fumbles the ball?

raiders looking great in preseason

If a receiver is wide open, and Aaron Brooks is the quarterback, does he make a sound?

[st.cronin]

Suggesting he is no better than Kyle Orton implies that you haven't watched both of these guys play or insanity. I don't think there is middle ground on this point.

I have seen both of them play, although not more than a few games each. I still think Orton has some promise. If I were the Bears, though, I wouldn't be interested in either one of them except as a 3rd stringer.

[Easy Mac]

If a receiver is wide open, and Aaron Brooks is the quarterback, does he make a sound?

The reciever? Yes: "Throw the f##%#@g ball.

Brooks? Yes: The sound a sack makes.

[bulletsponge]

The reciever? Yes: "Throw the f##%#@g ball.

Brooks? Yes: The sound a sack makes and the thud the ball makes when it hits the ground.

fixed

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I just am glad when he plays poorly so that the "Gross-Man" nickname is brought about. No football player should ever be called "Sexy Rexy." Sounds too much like a DVD a couple of guys watch in Key West...

[gstelmack]

Fact 1: Grossman has sucked abysmally at times this year.

Fact 2: Many stud QBs sucked abysmally early at times during the start of their careers before showing a dramatic turnaround in years 3 or 4. Drew Brees and Brett Favre both come to mind.

These two facts lead me to agree with the contingent who feels you have to at least take a look at him next season to see if he is progressing. If he is not progressing, you dump him fast. If he is, you keep him.

[ISiddiqui]

Grossman is a bit different than the other QBs because of his vast injury problems. He's be 27 when next season begins. He's got a very short window, IMO, to 'progress' because he isn't all that young and he has already spent a number of years learning the offense (so that isn't the issue here).

Not saying it can't happen, but age is a factor to consider here. Brees and Favre were both 25 when they had their "breakout" years. One wonders if Grossman is 28 and still showing the same mistakes if the Bears want to wait on an older QB to progress.