GroupThink - 1991 offseason

[QuikSand]

GT 1991 Off-Season

Last season’s ratings, for those who care:

Overall Evaluation – 40
Performance – 60
Roster – 74
Profit – 48
Franchise Value - 16

We start off the new year with some good news – we don’t have any retirements. So, we can start off this year with a full complement of players from the team that posted such a nice playoff run in our initial campaign.

We have no arguments with our current front office staff, so Coach “Full Contact” Jarvis and Scout Tony Shields will stay put.

We boosted revenues last year by 67% with a much-needed ticket price increase. However, the fact that this team was suddenly actually spending money was a bit of a downside, as our expenses rose by 74%. The bottom line – our club lost nearly $88m last season, nearly twice the losses of the year before. I thin help is on the way, though – we laid out a lot of cash in signing bonuses last year ($95 million) and that won’t be happening at that level ever again. There’s room for some hope, at least.

We raise ticket prices by 10%, I honestly don’t remember if our rules stretch into this area, but this is in keeping with the “reasonable” approach. We’re still well within the area market, for what that’s worth.


The following is our list of players and cap status:


Player # Pos OnTm EndCnt Exp Cap Cost Save if Rlse
Oksenberg, Brent 49 RB 1987 1995 5 $9,860,000 $7,000,000
Armstrong, Alonzo 44 RCB 1987 1994 5 $9,530,000 $7,340,000
Bell, Lonnie 57 MLB 1990 1994 8 $7,600,000 $6,000,000
Bridgeman, Donnie 48 SS 1982 1993 10 $7,500,000 $6,000,000
Davison, C.J. 71 RDE 1988 1993 4 $6,290,000 $3,260,000
Wooldridge, Hardy 63 LT 1989 1994 3 $4,750,000 $1,840,000
Wetherbee, Walter 33 FS 1990 1993 7 $3,900,000 $3,000,000
McAlister, Kenny 85 SE 1990 1995 2 $3,420,000 $1,800,000
LaRiche, Preston 32 LCB 1990 1991 6 $3,220,000 $2,740,000
Varner, Alan 24 RCB 1990 1991 7 $3,030,000 $2,550,000
Dennis, Alfred 27 LCB 1990 1991 6 $2,850,000 $2,370,000
Pritchett, Roger 2 QB 1990 1992 13 $2,800,000 $2,000,000
Houston, Monty 8 QB 1990 1992 8 $2,800,000 $2,000,000
Coleman, Reuben 16 QB 1990 1992 7 $2,800,000 $2,000,000
Wooden, Donald 76 RDE 1990 1992 14 $2,660,000 $2,000,000
Von Hagel, Russell 58 MLB 1990 1991 8 $2,490,000 $2,010,000
Howe, Christian 90 RDT 1990 1992 10 $2,400,000 $1,800,000
Mahoney, Mark 99 RDT 1990 1992 10 $2,400,000 $1,800,000
John, Gerald 95 SLB 1990 1992 7 $2,400,000 $1,800,000
Horn, Rufus 59 WLB 1990 1991 8 $2,310,000 $1,830,000
Grier, Ray 54 WLB 1990 1991 10 $2,250,000 $1,500,000
Rose, Everett 87 SE 1990 1991 15 $1,930,000 $1,450,000
Johnston, Blaine 69 RT 1989 1992 14 $1,930,000 $1,450,000
Blow, Gabe 77 LDE 1990 1992 2 $1,910,000 $1,200,000
Strikwerda, R.J. 62 LDT 1990 1992 12 $1,900,000 $1,450,000
Flynn, Quentin 42 SS 1990 1992 7 $1,780,000 $1,340,000
Crawford, Duane 35 RB 1990 1993 2 $1,760,000 $1,040,000
Penick, Andre 72 LG 1990 1992 8 $1,750,000 $1,270,000
Carlson, Joey 39 FS 1990 1992 8 $1,750,000 $1,270,000
Gaines, Calvin 74 LG 1990 1991 10 $1,740,000 $1,260,000
Martinez, Alan 51 WLB 1990 1994 2 $1,580,000 $860,000
Pedersen, Tracy 70 LT 1990 1992 6 $1,400,000 $1,400,000
Rhodes, Danny 15 QB 1989 1992 3 $1,380,000 $730,000
Meekin, Shaun 75 RG 1990 1991 7 $1,300,000 $1,300,000
McGough, Claude 52 C 1989 1992 3 $1,280,000 $730,000
Hill, Wayne 19 FL 1990 1993 2 $1,230,000 $660,000
Wallis, Clifton 18 SE 1990 1991 6 $1,130,000 $1,130,000
Cates, Clarence 50 C 1990 1991 7 $1,100,000 $1,100,000
DeWalt, Ed 89 FL 1990 1991 4 $880,000 $880,000
McAfee, C.J. 67 LG 1988 1991 4 $880,000 $880,000
Wolfe, Kent 79 LDT 1990 1992 2 $870,000 $680,000
Baker, Keith 36 RB 1990 1992 2 $700,000 $660,000
Terry, Isaac 65 C 1990 1991 2 $660,000 $660,000
Clancy, Renaldo 45 FB 1987 UFA 5 $0 $0
Graham, Dusty 84 TE 1990 ---- 4 $0 $0
Stone, Nathan 38 FB 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0
Hutchins, Billy 47 TE 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0
Lane, Norm 11 TE 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0
Goad, Bubba 66 RT 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0
Metz, Damon 9 P 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0
Bridges, Terrell 7 K 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0
Armendariz, Spencer 73 LDE 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0
Shores, Lorenzo 61 LDE 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0

Players Under Contract: 43
On Active Roster: 43

Salary Cap: $136,700,000
Cap Room: $16,790,000
Maximum for New Player: $10,490,000
Cap Room Lost (to old contracts): $1,810,000

Cap Room Lost Next Year (to old contracts): $0
Cap Room Required Next Year: $100,250,000



Overall, we have fairly little cap room, but only 10 vacancies on the roster – that’s not so bad, really. Our roster is already legal everywhere except FB, TE, P, and K for the coming year – and filling those spots are never a serious challenge. Our rookie draft (recall, we’re down in the queue this year, picking at #22 this season) is projected to cost us $6.3 million – meaning that we have something like $10 million to play with – maybe $8-9m after we fill in with nominal players at those empty spots. Fair enough.


That gets us up to date… I’ll post the game files, and we can start talking strategy. This year’s draft class is viewable, as are the fleet of players in free agency. Now, we’ve got stuff to talk about.

[QuikSand]

Here is update file #1

[QuikSand]

And here is update file #2

[QuikSand]

Sorry about the formatting above... I used the "code" tags. When I use the old familiar tags, I have been getting an extra space in between each line.

Anyone know the easiest way to post text in an evenly-spaced font like Copurier without adding extra junk and space?

[wade moore]

I've been using code with the [ symbols and everything I've postd has formatted fine..

I'll peruse in detail over the file in the morning..

[QuikSand]

Thanks, wade - much better. I can live with the extra lines above and below...

[Doug5984]

I think it would be in our best interest to release (or possibly trading him for maybe a 4th round pick) QB Houston (I think that is the right one, the guy who didn't take a single snap all season)...Also, I noticed all but 1 of our free agents are restricted...We could sign our K, P, and atleast 1 TE....that way we could go into the draft to pick the best available player.

Also, we have 4 CBs costing more than 2.85 million, maybe we could trade ro cut one of those....

[wade moore]

CURRENT OFFENSIVE PLAYERS

<b>Contracts Expired:</b>

Clancy, Renaldo 45 FB 1987 UFA 5 $0 $0

<i>Clancy was our starter this year and was serviceable. He caught 25 passes for 3 TDs and was great in his catch percentage (thrown at 36 times). He only carried the ball once, as we had guys more suited to have the ball. He was 8/18 on KRBs with 2 SkA. At 1 mil a year, I can't see spending the money here.</i>


Graham, Dusty 84 TE 1990 ---- 4 $0 $0

<i>Graham caught 17 balls for 2 TDs and a 9.8 avg. He did not allow any sacks and was 2/6 on KRBs. He was not the starter this year, seeing only two starts. He is only asking for $880,000, so depending on the market he may be worth keeping around for another year.</i>


Stone, Nathan 38 FB 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0

<i>In just four starts Nathan caught 16 of 23 passes with a 9.2 avg and 3 TDs. However, he was only 2/10 on KRBs and allowed a SkA. He is young and has room to grow in blocking. He is also the backfield leader, so I would be a little concerned about breaking up the chemistry. He's willing to sign without a bonus and 2.2 mil over the next three years, I would be inclined to keep him</i>


Hutchins, Billy 47 TE 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0

<i>24 of 33 caught in his rookie year, 10.0 avg and no TDs. He was 6 of 13 on KRBs and did not allow a sack. He has some room to grow, but wants a 1 year, 1 mil contract. I think we can probably find better for that price or close to it.</i>


Lane, Norm 11 TE 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0

<i> Who?! Filler player only asking for $590,000 , should look at him along with URFAs and other fillers.</i>


Goad, Bubba 66 RT 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0

<i>Same situation as Lane.</i>


Metz, Damon 9 P 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0

<i>Metz had a respectable 42.1 avg with 32 punts in20. He is only asking for a 1 year, $590k contract. I don't see why we don't sign him. If we draft a guy, etc. then we can always cut him with no loss</i>


Bridges, Terrell 7 K 1990 ---- 2 $0 $0

<i>A liability all year, I hope we don't have to go into next season with this guy.</i>

<b>Misc Comments on signed guys:</b>

Houston, Monty 8 QB 1990 1992 8 $2,800,000 $2,000,000

<i>I agree with Doug. Seeing what we can get for this guy in trade may be worth it. We know that both Coleman and Pritchett can run the offense, and we have Rhodes who looks like he still could be something. The concern here, of course, is if we carry 3 QBs and one gets hurt we have to sign one. Perhaps we should consider looking at this position in the draft again, and carry two young guys? However, on the plus side, even with him we have barely over 10mil wrapped up at QB and it seems that we could win with any of them, where many other teams have that much in one guy.</i>


Baker, Keith 36 RB 1990 1992 2 $700,000 $660,000

<i>What a steal... I see that next year he is going to be asking for big bucks. As is Crawford, but he has a year longer on his contract. Here is the big question for me. Do we go with a few good cheaper backs, or consider to ride The Ox? I'm inclined to ride the Ox. If that is the case, I think we should strongly consider trading him next year, before he just dissapears from the team.</i>


Rose, Everett 87 SE 1990 1991 15 $1,930,000 $1,450,000

<i>I think we should consider trading and/or cutting Rose. He is costing us 2 mil to sit on the bench and do nothing. He started two games and caught 18 passes, but I think we could get someone younger and more promising, and possibly able to do returns. Again, he'll be gone after this year anyways as he's asking almost 3 mil for his next contract.</i>

General Notes:
I was very happy with the Offense this year. In reality, if we returned the same team, I couldn't complain. We were among the best scoring teams in the league with a brutal running game. If we could get a marquee QB, it would be nice, but it's not going to happen with our draft pick. I'd love to see beefing up at RT and some youth at the guard and RT position. Beyond that, a return man would be nice along with a K that could be a little more reliable.

[wade moore]

DRAFT CONSIDERATIONS:

It's unfortunate that we're picking so low, but that's the price of success! Here are my top choices for the offense (in no particular order) , but I'm assuming several of them will not be available come our pick:

RT Martin Neill - I know a lot of it is tied up in Green, and it looks like an old school bust, but wow if he met those potentials

TE Marshall Wert - Because he is a TE he could fall quite a bit. I hate to see a high pick go to a TE, but this guy could be a Shannon Sharpe/Tony Gonazalez level TE for our team. He's a great blocker and receiver.

RB Arnold Evans - I know we have a backup at RB, but if we want to keep an influx of youth this guy would fit right in with the rest of the crew.

QB Ethan O'Donnell - Not worth a high pick, but might be worth a flyer in the later rounds.

FL Dennis Wiggins - This guys is fast, has the potential to catch very well, and *GASP* he looks pretty studly in Punt Returns AND Kick Returns


TE Lamont Dresow - A good later round pick to fill those hole on our team.

Ok, i'm getting deep into the draft, no point in speculating too much. This draft looks the opposite of last years, in that Defense is much deeper than offense. Which is good for us, because I feel we have more needs on that side of the ball.

[wade moore]

FA CONSIDERATIONS:

FB:

Cole Addy - Solid run blocking numbers which would be nice to have, unfortunately he's not much of a receiver

Not much to offer here.. we may want to keep our guys? Atleast Stone.

TE:

Fernando Fisk - A threat as a blocker and a reciever. He only caught 2 passes last year, but he only started 1 game. he caught 35 the year before in 9 starts. Could pretty well with this offense, but he's almost 2mil price tag could be a bit much.

Edward Brennan - Only asking for 1 mil, He is a bette blocker than any of the guys we have. He is also a decent receiver.

WR:

Corey Jacobs - If we're willing to spend almost $2 mil for a returner, this is our guy. But he wont see PT at WR.

Jake Donovan - Asking for $730k this guy would be a nice filler/backup guy. He caught 22 balls in limited action two years ago and none in no action last year.

OL:

I don't think we're going to improve the OL through FA without dropping a huge wad of cash, which I do not believe we're prepared to do after this teams performance last year.

K:

Looking at the top kickers available in the league, I guess our guy isn't so bad afterall..

[wade moore]

Just a note -- they're cracking down on web surfing during work hours, so you won't hear from me during the day much for awhile.. don't worry, i'll still be very active, just not during work hours..

[Bee]

On the O-line a good young RT is probably the biggest need. Other than that I think we are probably set for next year.

[Bee]

Overall, we have fairly little cap room, but only 10 vacancies on the roster – that’s not so bad, really. Our roster is already legal everywhere except FB, TE, P, and K for the coming year – and filling those spots are never a serious challenge. Our rookie draft (recall, we’re down in the queue this year, picking at #22 this season) is projected to cost us $6.3 million – meaning that we have something like $10 million to play with – maybe $8-9m after we fill in with nominal players at those empty spots. Fair enough.

Just a reminder that we need to take 60 players into training camp. Something everyone should keep in mind when asking for free agent signings.

Also, I didn't check but I assume none of the guys who are out of contract were "fan favorites" or "Idolized"?

[primelord]

For obvious reasons I would really like to see us sign RDE Terry Diaz. He would be a tremendous help to our DLine. The problem of course is he wants 64.7 mil over 5 years.

However maybe to help pay for him we could cut RDE Donald Wooden. That would save us 2 million and we would have 660,000 of dead cap this year and next year. We would also have to move Davison to LDE which would decrease his experience ratings some.

[QuikSand]

Here are a few thoughts, after working through the roster a bit.

We have trade offers on the table for G Shawn Meekin, and QB Ruben Coleman, each including a mid-2nd round pick. We’re already heavy at QB – it might serve us well to consider this deal, even though Coleman proved his mettle for us with a few good games last year. As for Meekin – we’re amidst talks about how well treat our pro-bowlers, so that might determine what we do here, Playing “all out,” I’d take the deal in a second. (I confess I have not yet checked either offer for the "fairness test")

I think we might do well to either cut or trade a CB. Guys #2,3, and 4 on our roster there are all making over $2m – and none are really special. Alfred Dennis seemed to post the best stats, and is a zone specialist to some degree – but maybe either LaRiche or Varner should go – especially if that helps us upgrade elsewhere. I’d like to bring in a CB with a decent pick this year – maybe second round – and get someone in there who can be better than any of those three in time.

Free agent S Stanley Newton really jumps out at me. He’s got a good skill set, and would almost certainly be our solid #3 at safety. He’s also among the best punt returners available, though he has had the dropsies a bit. Add to this his demands – less than $2m per year… he’d be a great investment, I think, and he’d cost us almost nothing (after we cut someone else, like Carlson (saves us $1.27 this year).

A new deal for G Gaines this year would up his salary by around $1.7m, but would also lock him up for two more years.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Bee
Just a reminder that we need to take 60 players into training camp. Something everyone should keep in mind when asking for free agent signings.

When you sign an undrafted rookie at the one-year minimum, does it affect your room under the salary cap? (I honestly don't remember - I know Jim adjusted this, but I haven't paid close attention)

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Bee
Also, I didn't check but I assume none of the guys who are out of contract were "fan favorites" or "Idolized"?

Not a one. Nearly all are in the class of "fans need scorecard."

[QuikSand]

The trade offer for QB Coleman has passed the traditional "fairness test," but the offer for Meekin has not, just FYI.

I renew my thought that we ought to consider the deal for Coleman.

[primelord]

Another intriguing guy who would be a cheaper option than DE Terry Diaz in RDE Bert Ogden. He is coming off a 13 sack/27 hurry year.

If we were going to get rid of a CB I think LaRichie is the guy that should go.

[primelord]

I agree we should pull the trigger on the Coleman trade. In addition to the extra pick we can use the extra cash in free agency.

[Bee]

Originally posted by QuikSand
When you sign an undrafted rookie at the one-year minimum, does it affect your room under the salary cap? (I honestly don't remember - I know Jim adjusted this, but I haven't paid close attention)

I thought it did, but I haven't really paid close attention to it either.

[Bee]

Originally posted by primelord
I agree we should pull the trigger on the Coleman trade. In addition to the extra pick we can use the extra cash in free agency.

ditto

[Doug5984]

ditto on trading Coleman.

[primelord]

Here are the DC's thoughts on what our focus should be for the defense in the offseason.

Position Priority List
1. DE
2. DT
3. CB
4. OLB

I thought Gabe Blow ended up having a solid rookie season, but I don't think he is the long term answer for us. However he would provide some nice depth for us if we were able to land another stud DE. Davison had a kind of up and down season, but ended up with some very solid numbers and now with more experience and some more talent on the line to take the focus off himhe could be very productive for us.

If we somehow have the money I would love to land a DT too, but I have a feeling we just don't have the budget to sign a big time DT. I think it's highly likely we could find another Wolfe type DT in the mid to later rounds of the draft.

I agree with Quik's thoughts that we should try to land a CB with one of our early round picks. I like Dennis and Varner, but I would like them more coming off of the bench.

OLB Martinez looks like a bust. I am not sure if it was the injuries he had last year or if he is just an outright bust, but he doesn't look like he is going to be much help to us. I think we would be ok with Rufus Horn starting for us, but if we could upgrade here I would like to.

[primelord]

Free Agent Wish List

DE
1. RDE Terry Diaz, 64.7 Mil 5 years
2. RDE Bert Ogden, 22.7 Mil 3 years
3. LDE Steve Witt, 31.2 Mil 3 years
4. RDE Doug Rome, 6.9 Mil 2 years
5. LDE Hunter Brady, 42.7 Mil 4 years

Diaz is easily the best of the bunch, but it's going to cost a lot to get him. I think Ogden is capable of putting up similar numbers to Diaz and is a little better priced. Witt is talented, but much older than Diaz and almost as expensive. Rome is strictly a pass rush specialist, but a pretty good one and is the cheapest of the group. Hunter Brady looks like he could be good, but hasn't really had a chance to start anywhere and isn't quite the pass rusher the other 4 guys are.

[DolaBump]

We're actually rather strapped in terms of the cap -- figuring an average of $350,00 for the 17 players we need to fill out our training camp roster (that's assuming most of them are undrafted rookies), that's $6 mil, plus $6 mil for the draft, leaving us only $4.5 mil to upgrade, not a whole lot, though we did make the conference championship this year.

That said, I vote to cut Lariche. I generally like to maintain a sense of continuity as much as possible, but I'd rather get a young guy in the draft and get by next year with Dennis and Varner, who both played as well or better than LaRiche. That frees up $2.5 mil, giving us a bit more breathing room.

Since my main focus is the pass defense, I wanted to point out that Gerald John, our SLB was pretty much abused in pass coverage. Obviously as the SLB, he's covering the TE a lot, but he gave up the most catches on the team and only made 8 more tackles than WLB Horn who played over 200 fewer plays. John has room to grow, so I'm not calling for his head, but its something to keep an eye on.


As for FA, I like Newton, he'd be a nice addition and only cost $500,000 more than Carlson -- my only question is in the Roster requirements -- do we have to carry 2 FS's?

Looking ahead to the draft, there's some nice depth on the D-Line, we should be able to get a solid player even late in the first round.

[primelord]

I think John will be allright. He took an experience hit when we moved him from WLB to SLB. That may account for the coverage problems. I think we should give him another year.

Looking at players we can cut I would again suggest we release DE Wooden. It would save us 2 million on a guy who didn;t even play a snap for us last season.

[primelord]

Dola,

Dolabump if we weer to sign Newton we could shift Flynn over to the FS position. His skills seem to be more suited to a FS anyway.

[QuikSand]

Okay... just an incremental update (to avoid re-stating issues that are already matters of consensus):

In the official game file, I have:

-Accepted the trade offer for QB Reuben Coleman
-Released the OL who came along in that deal
-Released CB LaRiche and DE Wooden
-Signed P Damon Metz to a new one-year contract

With those moves, here is our adjusted financial picture:

41 players signed
8 draft picks expected to cost $7,650,000
$22,940,000 remaining under the salary cap

[QuikSand]

I also think DE Doug Rome is an intriguing possibility. He's strictly a pass rusher, but he does have 18 sacks in his last 24 games... that's not too shabby. He's asking for a little over $3m per year.

Even if we land a hotshot rookie, this is a guy we could use as our main backup, or even start in passing situations.

[Bee]

You'll get a lot of letters protesting the release of Wooden...he was idolized. :D

[QuikSand]

In the FA market, I like TE Mark Loftis as a viable receiver and decent all-around player. He shoudl get a fair number of balls thrown his way, and though he will drop a few should be pretty solid all-around. About $2m a year and we get him, I suspect.

TE Fernando Fisk is slightly cheaper, and all-around better, but probably will not be the receiving threat that Loftis could be.

I agree with wade on WR Corey Jacobs - maybe a bit pricey for a return man, and that's really all he would be. However, we'd almost certainly cut a WR if we got him, and that could be Clifton Wallis - an easy drop of $1.1m in salary, making the $1.8 or so for Jacobs not so tough to swallow.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Bee
You'll get a lot of letters protesting the release of Wooden...he was idolized.

I totally missed it. I'll leave that as an issue for the participants... shoud I go and reload the game from the forum servers, to disallow this cut?

[QuikSand]

At the moment, I have placed an offer of 5yrs, $71m to DE Terry Diaz. This includes a $15m signing bonus - so we had better be sure that this is the guy we want to commit to for the long haul. His deal would cost is $9m this year, but $18m in each of the final seasons. No option year, at the moment.

Any thoughts?

[primelord]

I fine with making a push for DE Rome. Even if we don't find a stud DE early in the draft I think we can probably find a one dimentional run oriented DE somewhere and we can rotate that person and Rome depending on the situation.

Another guy we might want to look at is WLB Donnell Wilkerson. He is asking for 17 mil over 3 years which may be more than we can do, but we could then cut either Rufus Horn or Ray Grier to try and make up some of that cost. He would be a major upgrae over Horn at the WLB position.

[Bee]

Originally posted by QuikSand
I totally missed it. I'll leave that as an issue for the participants... shoud I go and reload the game from the forum servers, to disallow this cut?

I'd say no, just keep moving ahead. We never came to a conclusion on releasing fan favorites or idolized players.

My suggestion for a house rule would be (starting now) to not release or trade "idolized" players (maybe ok for fan favorites?).

What do you think?

[Doug5984]

Originally posted by QuikSand
At the moment, I have placed an offer of 5yrs, $71m to DE Terry Diaz. This includes a $15m signing bonus - so we had better be sure that this is the guy we want to commit to for the long haul. His deal would cost is $9m this year, but $18m in each of the final seasons. No option year, at the moment.

Any thoughts?

I think that is just too much money to tie up in one player....can someone post some of his ratings, and stats... That is just so much money, since we did so good this season I would rather sign a few vets who can contribute and help us get to the superbowl...71 million over 5 years, seems like too much to wrap up in one player....but it is up to primelord & quicksand if this guy will be worth the money.

[primelord]

Quik,

I think Diaz looks amazing and DLine is critical in our system. However I think we may get more bang for our buck going with what I talked about in my previous post. For around that same 9 mil per year we could get both Rome and Wilkerson and upgrade in two areas instead of just one.

[Bee]

As far as RT goes, I'd like to get some opinions about Marshall Cunningham in the draft as a potential second or third round draft pick.

[QuikSand]

Okay... as of now, the tentative list of FA offers reads:

TE Loftis 3yrs, $6.8m
WR Jacobs 2yrs, $3.6m
WR Donovan 2yrs, $1.61m
DE Rome 3yrs, $10.0m
S Newton 3yrs, $6.0m

I'm just trying to move this along... these are consistent with the input I have received so far.

I've pulled the offer to the top DE stud - which frees us up to go after this series of decent players. By my calculus, we should still be okay to pursue the LB that primelord is pitching, if that's where our focus is.

My guess is that we'll target DE, CB, and FB and TE in this draft... of course always open to the BPA.

[Doug5984]

Quicksand, everytime i try to download the file i get a "file is corrupt" message when i try to unzipp it....could you try re-uploading it? or could you maybe try emailing the files to me ( [email protected] )?

[primelord]

Doug,

I don't think it is a problem with the files. It sounds more like a problem with the way your browser is interpreting the files. Try right clicking on the file name and then selecting save target as and see if that helps.

[primelord]

I wouldn't mind looking at DT's in this draft also.

[Doug5984]

"Doug,

I don't think it is a problem with the files. It sounds more like a problem with the way your browser is interpreting the files. Try right clicking on the file name and then selecting save target as and see if that helps."

hmm...that didn't work either, and i tried downloading other zip files and i get the same message for all of them....i will mess around with it and see if i can get it to work.

[primelord]

Since it seems pretty likely we won't make any progress on the weekend do we think we will get through free agency today? If it is too fast for everyone I am fine with that, but I would like to be ready to head into the draft on Monday if everyone is cool with that.

[Doug5984]

Quicksand, thanks for sending me the files...that doesn't seem to be working either, it seems like this is a problem with this computer....I should get my computer back by the end of next week, so until then i can only offer a little imput.

[primelord]

Doug,

You could always try installing another archiving program like Power Archiver (http://download.com.com/3000-2250-10137237.html?tag=lst-4-8) and see if that resolves the problem.

[QuikSand]

Free Agency

With the bids noted previously, along with a 3yr, $17m offer to LB Donnell Wilkerson, we head into the free agent market. We’re mostly looking to make finishing touches on this team – a team that marched into the playoffs last season, even after a shaky 2-6 start to the season.

Within five weeks of the FA process, we have all six of our pursued players signed. To partly make room for the new addition at LB, we release Rufus Horn, which cuts our salary by over a million.

That leaves us here, heading into the draft:

46 players signed
8 draft picks, expected to cost $7.65m
Cap room remaining is $9.85m


Since trading up in the draft is a very costly exercise, I’ve decided to cut off that possibility, and let the draft run right up to our first pick. I hope that will help to focus our conversations – recall, this year we hold picks at 1(22), 2(16), and 2(22) – so three of the next 33 selections.

Here’s the draft thus far:

[code]
1. Thunder Bay - Connell, Brenden, DT, California, Pa.
2. Providence - Neill, Martin, T, Ohio State
3. Death Valley - Grier, Archie, T, SE Missouri St.
4. Niagara Falls - Devine, Skip, RB, Arkansas
5. Key West - Summers, Sean, DE, Hampton
6. Kitty Hawk - Humphries, Nick, DT, UCLA
7. Hawk Mountain - Wilson, Casey, T, Arkansas State
8. Norfolk - Seder, Brenden, S, Purdue
9. Ocean City - Fruth, Emmitt, DE, South Carolina
10. Pensacola - Foster, Howie, T, Stanford
11. Fort Wayne - Clark, Byron, OLB, UCLA
12. Athens - Blades, Barry, DE, SW Texas St.
13. Cheyenne - Evans, Arnold, RB, New Hampshire
14. Ypsilanti - Goodwin, Steve, QB, Ohio
15. Wheeling - Irwin, Toby, DE, Florida State
16. Louisville - Wheeler, Rex, DE, Lehigh
17. Tulsa - Sockanathan, Dennis, DT, Nevada
18. Napa Valley - Falvey, Trent, T, Stanford
19. Bermuda - Dillon, Lionel, T, Ohio
20. Mazatlan - Kemp, Kendrick, DT, Purdue
21. Memphis - Brock, Darrell, T, West Virginia
[code]

We are on the clock… and our GT staff (whoever that is at this point) can start thinking about what we’d like to do here. I’ll post file updates momentarily.

[QuikSand]

First file update attached

[QuikSand]

Second file update attached.

Hmm.. that was quite a run on defensive linemen, eh?

[Doug5984]

Primelord, thanks so much...that worked....and i now have FOF and the files working properly :)

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Bee
As far as RT goes, I'd like to get some opinions about Marshall Cunningham in the draft as a potential second or third round draft pick.

I like him a lot.

[primelord]

Well I like the looks of CB Irv Boyd, but if we are looking to get a TE out of this draft too it sure looks like it would be hard to pass up on Marshall Wert.

If we didn't go CB or DL here I think its possible CB Malcom Frazier might be at our next pick and he looks solid and if not him there are several DT's who all look to be about the same so I have no problem going offense with this pick.

[QuikSand]

Uhhh... I'm more than a little bit underwhelmed by what I see in this draft for us. At DE, there doesn't seem to be much of anything... what does that leave us?

LB T.J. Hampton
TE Marshall Wert
CB Irv Boyd
NT Antoine Rodriquez (could he move to DE at 292 lbs?)
WR Shaun Blaine

I think my first leaning might be to go with CB Boyd on this first pick, even though I'm less comfortable about him than a few others. If he comes through, he'd be a great addition for us, at a big-money spot.

[primelord]

RDT Curtis Sanders looks very nice too. I am not sure he would last till our next pick.

[primelord]

Quik,

You like Rodriguez more than Sanders? Other than the obvious difference in punishing hitter Sanders is better in every category. And since he has a 0 in punishing hitter I am guessing that is more or less a garauntee he won't bust.

Do we know what kind of impact punishing hitter has in the game? If it is a significant attribute then maybe Sanders isn;t a good option.

[Doug5984]

ok...well I am now able to extract files, and i was able to get the game to where i can look at the draft....but all the team names are the same as before...and when i try to look at player stats i get an error saying the saved game data is missing, do i need to download all the files from the begging to have the game running properly? or is this just a wierd problem i am having...

Also, about the draft I would like for us to get TE Marshall Wert...there is just no one that really stands out on defense that i really like. If we do go D i would go with NT Rodriguez, he may not have the potential that Sanders has but to me Sanders looks like the kind of player that will never live up to his potential. Also Irv Boyd could be a pretty good CB. Maybe we should trade down to around the 30th pick in the draft and see which one of the players we want falls and we could pick up an extra 3rd round pick

[primelord]

Doug I suspect part of the problem may be you don't have all the history files.

Try just downloading the first set of files and then Quik's last update and see if that helps at all.

I have a feeling if we want TE Wert we need to take him here. I doubt if we trade down that he will last. I don't think Irv Boyd will either. If we don't think either of those two are need guys then trading down may be a good option.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by primelord
Quik,

You like Rodriguez more than Sanders? Other than the obvious difference in punishing hitter Sanders is better in every category. And since he has a 0 in punishing hitter I am guessing that is more or less a garauntee he won't bust.

Do we know what kind of impact punishing hitter has in the game? If it is a significant attribute then maybe Sanders isn;t a good option.


I see bust in Sanders because of his rating in pass rush strength. Lots of green there is a bad sign.

As for the zeroed ratings... I think this is something that is seeded in after the imposition of masking. So, a guy like DT Sanders probably had a rating of something like 30/70 there before this dice roll indicated that he was going to get zeroed out in that area.

I think Sanders is a very likely bust, and Rodriquez is a much safer pick.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Doug5984
ok...well I am now able to extract files, and i was able to get the game to where i can look at the draft....but all the team names are the same as before...and when i try to look at player stats i get an error saying the saved game data is missing, do i need to download all the files from the begging to have the game running properly? or is this just a wierd problem i am having...


You wouldn't need all the updates... but I suspect you are missing the "1990" file. Download, if you can, the first update files from after the new season started. One of those will have the file called "00000001.1990" - that's probably the missing file, which contains all the data from last year.

[Bee]

With the signing of Loftis, our TE need is greatly reduced. I really don't see the need to sign Wert with our first pick although he is a good looking player.

[Doug5984]

Prime, thanks that worked...just the team names are not correct, but that is no big deal...

After looking over our roster I like our DE's, LDT, MLB, & WLB....Our RDT is not that bad either, I do think that we could upgrade the SLB spot- and there are currently atleast 4 guys who I really like (we could possibly get one in the 2nd round)
In order:
Gilbert Curtis
Norman Solymos
Joel Humphry
Ike Finch

[primelord]

Originally posted by QuikSand
I see bust in Sanders because of his rating in pass rush strength. Lots of green there is a bad sign.

As for the zeroed ratings... I think this is something that is seeded in after the imposition of masking. So, a guy like DT Sanders probably had a rating of something like 30/70 there before this dice roll indicated that he was going to get zeroed out in that area.

I think Sanders is a very likely bust, and Rodriquez is a much safer pick.

Thats good enough for me. :)

Maybe we take Boyd or Wert here and then hope either Rodriguez or DT Bucky Jordan (who looks very similar to Rodriguez) fall to us at our next pick?

[Bee]

Originally posted by QuikSand
I see bust in Sanders because of his rating in pass rush strength. Lots of green there is a bad sign.

As for the zeroed ratings... I think this is something that is seeded in after the imposition of masking. So, a guy like DT Sanders probably had a rating of something like 30/70 there before this dice roll indicated that he was going to get zeroed out in that area.

I think Sanders is a very likely bust, and Rodriquez is a much safer pick.

I agree. Sanders looks like bust to me as well.

I like Bucky Jordan a little more than Rodriquez at DT, but Rodriquez would make the transition to DE better if that was the plan.

I really like T.J. Hampton if the defense still has the need for a LB and he fits in with prime's scheme.

Edit:

Boyd looks good too if CB is a bigger need.
I think we should definitely go Defense here.

[Doug5984]

I would hold off on drafting a TE....The one we have on the roster already is pretty good, and there are 3 really good ones this year....one could fall to us in the 2nd round, or we could trade down a few spots if we want one...unless some of you are really sold on Wert, then we need to take him here.

[QuikSand]

I'm out for the next few hours... but feel free to take up the mantle and keep moving along. My tepid vote goes to CB Boyd, mostly because I'm uninspired by the other options, and think we could save some money getting a young guy in at CB, where we are paying something like $5m for two mediocre veterans. I htink Boyd will be at least as good as those guys - maybe a good deal better.

I could certainy live with TE Wert, also, though I like the free agent TE we just picked up to consider that position a much lesser priority now.

Rotsa ruck.. will check in later.

[Bee]

Boyd is definitely the cream of the crop of corners available. If it's a need position, he'd be a great pick IMO.

[Doug5984]

I'll put my vote in for Boyd, and that way we can let Varner play out his contract and leave as a free agent next year.

For our 2 second round picks I would like to see us consider the DTs we have talked about, and the SLBs in the draft, also maybe one of the TEs if they happen to fall that far.

[Bee]

I agree about looking at a DT with our first second round pick and seeing if anyone falls to that point.

I'd rather get the RT I mentioned above (Cunningham) with our second second round pick than a TE (if Cunningham is available). It's a bigger need IMO on the offense to have a solid backup for an aging vet than a backup for the TE we signed who's only played 5 seasons. I'm a little concerned that we could see a big drop in our starting RT's skills this season and be left without any options if his play drops during the season.

Looking at our roster, Boyd definitely looks like a good fit for us.

[primelord]

Sounds like we all agree.

22. Little Rock - Boyd, Irv, CB, Virginia Tech
23. Sacramento - Cascini, Jesse, QB, Purdue
24. Champaign - Wert, Marshall, TE, Samford
25. Texarkana - Hampton, T.J., ILB, Liberty (Va.)
26. Nashua - Hoke, B.J., T, Minnesota
27. Tijuana - Rodriquez, Antoine, DT, Wyoming
28. Fort Knox - Curtis, Harvey, T, Rice
29. Bermuda - Jordan, Bucky, DT, Purdue
30. Sault Ste. Marie - Wyman, Austin, RB, Arizona
31. Lake Erie - Sanders, Curtis, DT, SW Texas St.
32. Puget Sound - Constable, Dominic, RB, Mississippi State
33. Thunder Bay - Woodson, Daniel, WR, Maryland
34. Providence - Gomez, Trent, G, Hampton
35. Ypsilanti - Beustring, Jared, DT, Pittsburgh
36. Niagara Falls - Boone, Mark, DT, Louisiana-Lafayette
37. Kitty Hawk - Kolsrud, Brent, RB, Michigan
38. Kitty Hawk - Quinn, Gerald, DT, Virginia
39. Hawk Mountain - Muterspaugh, Ross, G, Oregon State
40. Norfolk - O'Donnell, Ethan, QB, Iowa State
41. Ocean City - Hammond, Mack, T, Temple
42. Pensacola - Zimmerman, Horace, G, Michigan
43. Fort Wayne - Knowlton, Randy, T, Vanderbilt
44. Athens - Lake, Mark, T, Washington
45. Cheyenne - Johnstone, Kendall, TE, Mississippi
46. Fort Wayne - Ellard, Seth, DT, Georgia
47. Wheeling - Jarvis, K.C., G, Kansas State

[primelord]

A lot of DT's went off the board in between our picks.

There a couple decent looking ones like Buddy Fox, but he seems to have the same bust characteristics that Sanders had.

SE Shaun Blaine is still on the board and he looks pretty solid.

RDT Rex Bismonte may be the best DT that doesn't look like much of a bust. What are your guys thoughts?

[Bee]

Blaine definitely appears to be the best "value" pick at this point.

Blumer and Bismonte look like the best DT choices, but neither are that attractive IMO.

[primelord]

I am heading out so here are the updated files for where we are at.

File #1

[primelord]

File #2

[Doug5984]

hmm....Blaine appears to be the best talent available, but its not really a 'need' position. None of the DTs look that great to me, but if i had to pick one I would say Buddy Fox is the better one. Also, one of the SLBs would be nice.

[primelord]

Just to throw something out there we could always think about a guy like CB Malcom Frazier too. I think he looks pretty solid, he could provide a little insurance in case Boyd is a bust and if Boyd isn;t that gives us a very strong CB corps.

[primelord]

Yea SLB Curtis Gilbert looks pretty solid too. Although I am alittle gun shy on drafting OLB's after Martinez seems to have busted. Still since our need position of DT doesn't really have anyone that intrigues us maybe he is a good option.

[primelord]

Allright I am heading out now. I'll check back in later guys.

[QuikSand]

I'm against LB Curtis - I don't think he'll develop much. Same for Malcolm Frazier.


I think the guy to take here is WR Shaun Blaine, honestly. He shows every indication of reaching his full apparent potential, and even could exceed that. He ought to be a serious contributor - we seitch him to play flanker, and he'll be a guy we'll want to re-sign after his initial deal - he should be that good.

Wayne Hill is a solid player, and this woudl admittedly make us a bit deep at WR (which is not exactly a high-priority position for a run-heavy team, I know) but I think Blaine is pretty comfortably the "best player available."

(edit - I have cooled a little since I wrote this - I think there are several ways to go with this pick... I still rate Blaine highly, but I can be moved to support any of a number of possible players here)


If we want to look for a linebacker here or soon, the guy I think I liek best is Ike Finch.

[QuikSand]

A few more thoughts, as I flip through the rest of the rookies available...

TE Lamont Dresow looks pretty good to me - a future starter-caliber guy who might be there even after another round or two

At RT, Bryan Fassero is another option if we don't get Cunningham, whom Bee mentioned (and whom I also like a lot)

I think DT Dusty Blumer might be the best left at that position... though he's clearly an incomplete player, with a zeroed-out rating at play diagnosis

LB Jeremy Stull - late-round sleeper?

[QuikSand]

I think wade would be lobbying for FB Ethan Brock by now... FB is an admitted need position, and there isn't much in this draft that would represent any real upgrade over the scrubs we have/had. Brock, I think, will be abit limited in his upside - but should certainly be a starting-caliber FB for us, even if he never really tops out. Another defensible pick, here or soon.

[Bee]

Perhaps we should consider trading down? Maybe add in a later pick or two and try to get a 2nd and 3rd?

Just a thought.

[QuikSand]

There's not much in trading down once you're out of the top 20 picks or so. The GM contacted Sacramento, a good potential trade target (they have an extra 3rd rounder) and the best we could do was something like this:

LR gets:
2nd (#23)
3rd (#23)

SAC gets:
2nd (#16)
4th
7th

That's not an owful deal, but it's certainly not getting a good pick just to move down a few spots - we give up two other draft picks in the process - and woudl really only be moving up 31 spots from round 4 to round 3. Not an awful deal... but not a no-brainer, either.

[Bee]

Blaine does give us a legitimate number 3 receiver who could even be a starter if he has a good training camp. My vote would be to go with him or trade down and pick up the extra 3rd rounder.

I do have a question though. Looking at the draft picks in round 3 the 13th pick has xxx shown on the list for the draft order...what does that mean?

[QuikSand]

Probably a team that was over the salary cap, and therefore had to sacrifice draft picks. (I don't like the system, but that seems to be what FOF4 does)

[Bee]

Ahh...I forgot about that. That's probably what it is.

[wade moore]

MMMmmmm... Ethan Brock... ;)

I would definately love to have Brock on our squad. As was stated, he is a serious upgrade from anything we've had so far and he seems to have the two qualities that fit in this offense for a FB -- threat out of the backfield, and a potentially great blocker. With the sorry receiving ratings our FBs had last year, they still had 3 or 4 TD catches, imagine if we had Brock?

I would throw out TE Dean Graham as a potential pick come the third or 4th round (throwing these out now because I know I'm going to be gone most of the weekend)

WR Blaine would definately compete for starting time with Hill, which is an important consideration with a pick here (starting time). However, he is basically a mirror image so one wonders if the pick would be better spent elsewhere for the sake of the team? I would LOVE to have him.. we could then probably open our offense a bit more, run more 3 WR sets, etc... which would be good, especially as Pritchett gets to know our offense better...


As i said, I'll be out most of the weekend, but during the day sunday I can probably check briefly, but will not have the game.. please, as you have, move on without me.. I think Bee and QS both understand what I'm looking for -- besides, it's ultimately the big-bossman's job anyways ;)

[Bee]

I kind of had an eye of Rufus Self as the FB. He should drop into the mid to late rounds by my estimations (although I've been wrong before :D).

[Bee]

Dola:

Also, I think Brock is more likely to drop into the 3rd round than Blaine. We might be able to get both of them (depending on what the defense needs are) and if not I think Self will probably drop into the late rounds and we could hopefully pick him up in the 6th round or so.

[wade moore]

Self would be a great pick in a later round if we pass on Brock here, I couldn't complain too much about that -- this is somewhat high to pick an FB..

[Bee]

IMO, here's the top 5 players that I see would be solid contributors to our team that might go in the second and third rounds:

WR Shaun Blaine
FB Ethan Brock
RT Marshall Cunningham
LB Ike Finch
DT Dusty Blumer

Maybe we should make the trade that QS outlined and see if we can get 4 out of the 5 guys?

[BigDPW]

I like Blaine or Brock with the second rounder...

Brock could help our special teams also ;)

[QuikSand]

Hmmm... my thinking is that we:

-don't make the trade down
-take WR Blaine here
-hope to get the RT with the next pick
-hope to see one of our players at FB and/or DL in the next round or two

[Bee]

Sounds like a plan to me. :D

[QuikSand]

Okay, here are our next two picks, and this gets us up to our next selection:


48. Little Rock - Blaine, Shaun, WR, Wisconsin
49. Wheeling - Johnstone, Leo, C, Notre Dame
50. Napa Valley - Frazier, Malcolm, CB, Mercyhurst
51. Manhattan - Fox, Buddy, DT, Indiana
52. Pensacola - Carrell, Mark, G, Purdue
53. Memphis - Crane, Ralph, G, Rutgers
54. Little Rock - Cunningham, Marshall, T, Syracuse
55. Sacramento - Wyant, A.J., T, Southern Illinois
56. Champaign - Fassero, Bryan, T, Washington
57. Death Valley - Blackburn, Tim, ILB, Minnesota
58. Nashua - Estermeyer, Hardy, T, Tennessee
59. Tijuana - Berry, Dwayne, CB, Arizona State
60. Fort Knox - Monroe, Josh, CB, Louisiana State
61. Bermuda - Solymos, Norman, OLB, Sam Houston State
62. Sault Ste. Marie - Shannon, D.J., T, Washington State
63. Lake Erie - Craig, Dennis, QB, Kentucky
64. Puget Sound - Sweeney, Phillip, QB, California
65. Thunder Bay - Curtis, Gilbert, OLB, Nebraska
66. Providence - Stuart, Stephen, DE, Alabama
67. Death Valley - Graham, Dean, TE, St. Joseph's, Ind.
68. Niagara Falls - Bedard, Phil, DT, Washington State
69. Key West - Radford, Bernard, RB, California
70. Kitty Hawk - Finch, Ike, OLB, Florida State
71. Hawk Mountain - Sims, Gilbert, RB, California
72. Norfolk - Scholl, Cornell, ILB, Oregon State
73. Ocean City - Wagner, Erik, RB, North Carolina
74. Pensacola - Bensen, Zach, WR, Bethune Cookman
75. Fort Wayne - Moore, Kenny, DE, Ohio State
76. Athens - Wiggins, Dennis, WR, Syracuse
78. Ypsilanti - Coffey, Myron, G, Kentucky
79. Wheeling - Harper, Matthew, CB, Florida State
80. Louisville - Bismonte, Rex, DT, Central Florida
81. Tulsa - Tate, Ernest, CB, Arizona
82. Napa Valley - Kent, William, DT, Maryland
83. Sacramento - France, William, G, Fresno State
84. Mazatlan - Malone, Troy, OLB, Georgia Tech
85. Norfolk - Engeln, Gene, CB, Stanford

[QuikSand]

Now in round three, FB Ethan Brock is still there, as is DT Dusty Blumer, as well as TE Lamont Dresow. I think I’d lean toward the FB… but it seems like a good time to consider a bit, now that we are past our “extra pick” phase. We’ll see 31 more players off the board between picks after this.

[Bee]

I don't think Brock will make it to our next pick. The FB is definitely going to be starting for us. He's the best value pick IMO.

[QuikSand]

Okay, we went after need positions in rounds 3 and 4, getting the best available FB and TE, respectively. I made an executive decision on TE Dresow, a guy I really like, at a position we do need to fortify. Regrettably, the DT we were watching went off the board right after our 3rd round pick.


86. Little Rock - Brock, Ethan, FB, Stanford

87. Sacramento - Blumer, Dusty, DT, Kansas State
88. Champaign - Friesz, Tyrus, S, Indiana
89. Texarkana - Hays, Darrin, CB, South Carolina
90. Nashua - Jamison, Tyrone, T, Wagner
91. Tijuana - Chester, George, S, Stonehill
92. Texarkana - Ballard, Harris, DT, Rice
93. Bermuda - Dooling, Jared, S, Iowa
94. Nashua - McWilliams, Shannon, WR, Ohio State
95. Lake Erie - Mangiafico, Claude, T, Oklahoma State
96. Puget Sound - Garrison, Jermaine, T, Tulane
97. Thunder Bay - Isaia, Louie, ILB, Lock Haven
98. Providence - Agnew, Eddie, CB, Colorado
99. Death Valley - Reynolds, Patrick, G, Alabama
100. Niagara Falls - McCleon, Carlos, C, Fordham
101. Key West - Mason, Herman, T, Boston College
102. Kitty Hawk - Banks, Bob, S, East Carolina
103. Hawk Mountain - Farmer, Alex, ILB, Georgia Tech
104. Norfolk - Heinlein, D.J., CB, Kentucky
105. Ocean City - Hancock, Hunter, WR, Northwestern
106. Pensacola - Fitzgerald, Kim, DE, Auburn
107. Fort Wayne - Gibson, Bernie, TE, San Jose State
108. Athens - Schneider, Emmanuel, G, Washington State
109. Cheyenne - Baxter, Ray, ILB, UCLA
110. Pensacola - Krakowiecki, Darnell, CB, Missouri
111. Wheeling - Rose, Shaun, T, Texas Tech
112. Key West - Barrett, Neal, T, Florida
113. Tulsa - Lewinsky, Rex, T, Clemson
114. Napa Valley - Coppa, Steven, S, Mississippi
115. Manhattan - Setayesh, Brad, C, Boston College
116. Mazatlan - Crane, Amos, T, Minnesota
117. Memphis - Avila, Lance, S, Southern Mississippi

118. Little Rock - Dresow, Lamont, TE, Arkansas

119. Sacramento - Benson, Reuben, DT, Arizona State
120. Sault Ste. Marie - Barrientos, Steve, DT, Georgia
121. Texarkana - Francis, Marlon, OLB, Ohio State
122. Nashua - Spencer, Darrin, T, St. Francis (Ill.)
123. Tijuana - Voetberg, Levon, TE, Washington
124. Fort Knox - Evans, Albert, G, Texas A&M
125. Bermuda - Griffith, Alfred, WR, Mississippi
126. Sault Ste. Marie - Strong, Orlando, DT, Oklahoma State
127. Key West - Crawford, Walt, CB, Clemson
128. Tulsa - Riley, Brant, T, Tulane
129. Thunder Bay - Dahnke, Cedric, WR, Tulsa
130. Providence - Freed, J.J., QB, Florida State
131. Death Valley - Nixon, Leland, G, Nebraska
132. Niagara Falls - Maxwell, Cory, WR, Eastern Washington
133. Ypsilanti - Young, Stanley, OLB, Otterbein
134. Kitty Hawk - Reeg, Levon, CB, Ball State
135. Hawk Mountain - Viola, Oliver, OLB, Wake Forest
136. Texarkana - Humphrey, Joey, OLB, Vanderbilt
137. Ocean City - Maloney, Paul, G, Clemson
138. Pensacola - Franklin, Bryan, DE, Bethune Cookman
139. Fort Wayne - Watson, Louis, WR, Washington State
140. Athens - Norman, Charlie, OLB, Wisconsin
141. Cheyenne - Makredkakis, Todd, WR, Oklahoma
142. Ypsilanti - Dallesandro, Paul, DE, Duke
143. Wheeling - Stull, Jeremy, OLB, New Haven
144. Louisville - Hitchcock, Fred, RB, Texas A&M
145. Tulsa - Karo, Irving, DE, Oregon
146. Kitty Hawk - Francois, Sedrick, C, Southern Mississippi
147. Manhattan - Lang, Sean, DE, San Jose State
148. Mazatlan - Petrolis, Rodney, T, Robert Morris
149. Memphis - Tatum, Lance, DE, Louisiana State


At this point, maybe it’s wise to post the update files…

[QuikSand]

Here is the first file update:

[QuikSand]

And the second update:

[Doug5984]

Do we want to go after a young QB? If so there are 2 guys I really like:
QB John Barker
QB Ken Thompson

Some other players who look like they would be good picks
SLB- Josh Marriot
FL- Darrell Hawkins
SLB- Steve Dodge
LCB- Devin Hopkins
RG- Kris Weber

[QuikSand]

I like G Ellis Tanner better than Weber by a bit, but don't have a great feel for our "need" there - decent guards are pretty easy to come by, generally.

What about DE Russell Austin? He could be this year's pick comparable to DT Kent Wolfe from last year's draft... similar profile, might get better, but at least should be a decent reserve.

WR (flanker) Louis Gregg is probably good enough to let us cut a veteran... he'd save us money, at least, and might turn out to be decent.

QB John Barker looks like a no-nonsense QB to me - dunno whether there's any upside, but he shouldn't bust.

There are also several FBs left who are better than what we've had thus far... makes me think we can fill the reserve spot with a URFA.

K Jose Forbes looks to be the vest kicker left by some margin - again, don't really know how strongly we feel about that position.

[Doug5984]

If we go for a DE, I would go with Donovan Shah, he would be purly a pass-rushing DE, but he would be a good one. For an all around DE I like Cris McElroy, or Marco Lynn.

Another FB might not be a bad pick with our 7th round pick, just a player who would stay under contract and fill a position on the roster.

Also, if we wanted to trade RB Kieth Baker then I suggest we pick a guy like RB Tyronne Fiste.

CB Devin Hopkins, or Donny Porter would be good players to keep on the roster and it would allow us to cut a higher priced guy. I really have no opinion as to where to go with these next few picks, there is no one that just really stands out to me.

For Kicker I would say just sign someone like Ron Hardy to a one year deal.

[Bee]

I like DE Austin at this pick. He looks like he has some potential to me and we could always use a little depth along the D-line.

I think we should consider addressing the kicker situation later in the draft (maybe in the 6th round?), just to get a little stability at the position. I like Covington about the same as Forbes, but I'm a little partial to kickoff distance because of the number of points we scored last year. :D

[wade moore]

I would go with Bee here... DE Austin looks good,e specially considering the D was our biggest are of need, and we have addressed mostly Offense in the draft thus far... I say go DE here, it would be interesting to see if Barker is available at the next pick.. if so, I say definately take him

[QuikSand]

I have some logistical problems... and won't have access to the game for a while, at least until late tonight. (My office roof has collapsed, rendering my normal office and workstation [with FOF4 loaded] unaccessible today) I'm happy to have someone else carry on from here.

I'm very comfortable with taking DE Russell Austin with the next pick, of course.

[primelord]

150. Little Rock - Austin, Russell, DE, Wisconsin
151. Sacramento - Fowler, Winfred, WR, Wyoming
152. Hawk Mountain - McCorvey, Kim, OLB, Georgia Tech
153. Texarkana - Wagner, Dana, DT, Oregon State
154. Nashua - Hopkins, Devin, CB, Boise State
155. Tijuana - Lynn, Marco, DE, Oklahoma State
156. Fort Knox - Raymond, Marty, S, North Carolina State
157. Bermuda - Hawkins, Darrell, WR, Air Force
158. Sault Ste. Marie - McConnell, Chris, S, Louisville
159. Lake Erie - Shah, Donovan, DE, Eastern Illinois
160. Puget Sound - Putnam, Dana, T, Vanderbilt
161. Thunder Bay - Dawson, Dean, FB, Boston College
162. Providence - McWilliams, Xavier, S, Alcorn State
163. Death Valley - Burgess, Derek, DE, Dartmouth
164. Niagara Falls - Marriott, Josh, OLB, Colorado
165. Key West - Exterovich, Zack, ILB, Michigan
166. Kitty Hawk - Tanner, Ellis, G, Eastern Washington
167. Hawk Mountain - Ellwood, Alonzo, DT, Boise State
168. Norfolk - Coleman, Rich, C, Syracuse
169. Ocean City - Weber, Kris, G, Richmond
170. Pensacola - Earnest, Trevor, WR, Kentucky
171. Fort Wayne - Goon, Dale, WR, Indiana
172. Athens - Dodge, Steve, OLB, Illinois
173. Cheyenne - Porter, Donny, CB, Cincinnati
174. Ypsilanti - Cheney, Darrin, S, North Carolina
175. Wheeling - Weeks, Grady, TE, Mass. - Lowell
176. Louisville - Nealy, Vince, G, Arizona
177. Tulsa - Schroeder, Terrance, DE, Sam Houston State
178. Napa Valley - Wynn, Levon, S, Alabama A&M
179. Manhattan - McIntyre, Broderick, DT, Alabama
180. Mazatlan - Carrasco, Lee, WR, Tennessee
181. Memphis - Deutsch, Kevin, G, Ohio State

[primelord]

QB Barker is still available. Do we want to go that route or do we want to look at K Forbes or Covington?

On defense there are some intriguing guys still I think.

MLB Brian Peterson looks like he could be a solid backup some day. WILb Rob Flaherty looks very similar.

SILB Chad Murray could maybe be converted into a DE. He looks like a very solid pass rusher.

SLB Karl Erickson looks like he fits our system pretty well.

[Bee]

I'm pretty open at this point as to who we draft. I think Wade really liked Barker if he was available, so I'll go ahead and vote for Barker. If one of the LB's looks like a potential breakout player, I wouldn't mind going for them instead though.

B

[primelord]

182. Little Rock - Barker, John, QB, Vanderbilt
183. Sacramento - Almonte, Tito, T, Virginia
184. Champaign - Hardy, Quinn, T, Texas Christian
185. Texarkana - Grier, Carlton, FB, Wyoming
186. Sault Ste. Marie - Girardi, Scott, S, Georgia Tech
187. Tijuana - Gregg, Louis, WR, Houston
188. Fort Knox - Thornhill, Brad, G, Colorado State
189. Bermuda - Pilgrim, Blake, DT, Utah State
190. Sault Ste. Marie - Came, Sammie, P, Arizona
191. Lake Erie - Burks, Karl, T, Miami, Florida
192. Puget Sound - Burroughs, Sammie, TE, Iowa State
193. Thunder Bay - Powell, Brant, P, Iowa State
194. Providence - Horinek, Preston, WR, Southern Mississippi
195. Death Valley - Thornhill, Bennie, CB, Wake Forest
196. Niagara Falls - Erickson, Karl, OLB, San Diego State
197. Key West - Middleton, Malcolm, DT, Syracuse
198. Kitty Hawk - Backes, Craig, CB, Kansas
199. Hawk Mountain - Richardson, Jerald, CB, Georgia Tech
200. Norfolk - Barrett, Ty, OLB, West Virginia
201. Ocean City - Malone, Jonathan, FB, Washington State
202. Pensacola - Schalk, Dennis, P, Georgia
203. Fort Wayne - Lowe, Stan, S, Wisconsin
204. Athens - Finch, Warren, FB, Mississippi
205. Cheyenne - Curtis, J.R., WR, Alabama
206. Ypsilanti - Dion, Chad, S, Vanderbilt
207. Wheeling - Dworak, Renaldo, WR, Auburn
208. Louisville - Stargell, Malcolm, G, Michigan
209. Tulsa - Van Pelt, Eddie, WR, Montana State
210. Napa Valley - Baker, Deon, CB, Arizona
211. Manhattan - Castillo, Kent, CB, Army
212. Mazatlan - Fleming, Jeffrey, WR, North Carolina State
213. Memphis - Horton, Junior, WR, Delaware State
214. Little Rock - Peterson, Brian, ILB, Eastern Washington
215. Puget Sound - McNeil, Robbie, WR, Maryland
216. Champaign - Holliday, Jason, OLB, Stanford
217. Texarkana - Mireles, Hugh, QB, Ohio State
218. Nashua - Mantovani, Carlos, OLB, Vanderbilt
219. Tijuana - Dayne, Vernon, WR, Penn State
220. Fort Knox - Sherman, Andy, OLB, Southern Mississippi
221. Bermuda - Hodges, Ernest, C, Duke
222. Sault Ste. Marie - Flaherty, Rob, ILB, Indiana
223. Lake Erie - Self, Rufus, FB, Indiana
224. Puget Sound - Treadwell, Eddie, WR, Western Illinois

[primelord]

If we have any interest in K Rod Covington he actually went undrafted so we have the option of picking him up. For that matter K Forbes is still available too.

[Bee]

Dang!

FB Rufus Self went with the second to last pick! I was really hoping we could grab him as a URFA. :(

[primelord]

I would really like us to sign SILB Chad Murray and convert him to LDE. He would be anotehr pass rush specialist if he pans out, but again looks like he would be a good one. And if he doesn't it doesn't cost us much.

[primelord]

I am not sure what our procedures on signing players after the draft etc are and I am not sure if we want to just rn a vanilla training camp or not so here are the updated files before training camp.

File #1

[primelord]

File #2

[Doug5984]

We currently have 54 players on the roster since the rules state we need to bring 60 to camp here are 6 undrafter rookies i would like to see us sign...(They are not based on positional needs, but just the 6 players I would most like to see us go after)

K Jose Forbes
K Rod Covington
RG Stanley Blood
RB Tyrone Fiste
FB Alan Pedroza
CB Lewis Sinclair

[Bee]

Sweet! Fiste made it through. He looks like a decent backup RB if we end up getting rid of one our other guys.

[primelord]

Well I think we have two problems.

1) You can only have 5 of those guys because I want to bring SILB Chad Murray in. :D

2) I don't think we have enough money to sign 6 players even to min sal. We may have to cut someone in order to do that.

[Doug5984]

Ok...well we need to decide on who to cut, just taking a quick look CB Alfred Dennis came to mind, unless Boyd is a bust Dennis would probably be the # 4 guy, we would save close to 2 million by cutting him, and his contract is up after next season and I think it would be unlikely that we would bring him back after that.

And since we do need to cut 1 player, that means we will need to sign 7 undrafted guys.....I don't really say we get all the guys I listed I was just throwing some names out there.

[primelord]

If we really think Tyrone Fiste could be a solid backup at running back what about trying to trade RB Baker? That would free up a little cap room.

[Bee]

I like LT Lenny Bradley as far as o-linemen. If we can sign him I'd be happy.

RG Stanley Blood looks like a classic bust to me.

[Bee]

Guys I think might be good pickups:

Lenny Bradley LT
Tyrone Fiste RB
Clay Anthony DE
Alvin Navarro DT
Rod Covington K
Tom Gamboa CB (maybe bust? not sure)


I'd rather not trade Baker unless it's necessary myself. I'd rather cut a vet.

Edit: Not necessarily recommending signing these guys, but just think we should look at them. I think we need to get a K and FB for backup.

[Doug5984]

Originally posted by primelord
If we really think Tyrone Fiste could be a solid backup at running back what about trying to trade RB Baker? That would free up a little cap room.

Trading Baker would only free up around $600,000...I was thinking we take all 4 to training camp, and if Fiste has a good camp, and doesn't lose any ratings then we could try and trade Baker...but If we need to trade him now that wouldn't be that bad, we have another very good backup in Crawford.

[Bee]

For FB I like Heath Holliman the best of the URFAs.

[sasquatch]

I like the signing of Chad Murray, because I actually know someone named Chad Murray. However, in real life, he's been endearingly nicknamed Choad Murray, so I think it would work well as a nickname in the Groupthink. Again, I support the signing of Choad Murray.

[Bee]

If we trade anyone, I'd recommend Tracy Pederson (LT). He's angry and not likely to get any playing time unless there's an injury. If we pick up Lenny Bradley, I think he'll be a decent backup this year.

B

[Bee]

Originally posted by sasquatch
I like the signing of Chad Murray, because I actually know someone named Chad Murray. However, in real life, he's been endearingly nicknamed Choad Murray, so I think it would work well as a nickname in the Groupthink. Again, I support the signing of Choad Murray.

5-11 and 261 lbs...we should call him stubby. ;)

[BigDPW]

I like both Covington and Forbes at Kicker... We could bring one of these guys in but I don't think we need both... Covington falls short on kicking length and Forbes will take awhile to develop some accuracy but I think all in all Forbes is better rounded...

I also agree with trying to convert Murray to DE just to see how he does...

I also like the idea of trading Tracy Peterson and I would have no problem with cutting CB Alfred Dennis...

I also like Heath Holiman at FB to backup Brock...

[primelord]

Ok again I hope I am not stepping on Quik's toes but in the interest of keeping things moving I have cut LCB Alfred Dennis.

I have signed the following players to 1 year deals.

SILB Chad Murray (moved to LDE)
LT Lenny Bradley
FB Heath Holliman
RB Tyrone Fiste
K Jose Forbes
K Rod Covington
RCB Tom Gamboa

Of course after signing them I remembered that the lowest paid guys over the 53 man roster don't count against the salary cap. So we didn't actually need to cut anyone. Oh well.