Werewolf XLIII - The Big City (Game over)

[Alan T]

The Setting:

We all live in the big city, and our goals are to succeed in our careers of choosing to become as rewarded as imaginable. What one's reward might be likely differs greatly depending on their calling in life. Some in our big city are far more selfish than others though, and want it all at the expense of anyone who might stand in their way.

The Objectives:

Each player in the game will be either assigned a particular role, job or occupation or have the opportunity during the game to find one of their choosing. Each player will have both an objective based on if they are a "good guy" or a "bad guy" as well as some individual objective based upon their role, job or occupation. The only exception to this will be those of no affiliation to one side or the other. Neutral players will only have their role,job or occupation objective to meet. A Neutral player's sole objective might be quite difficult to achieve however they might be given other options during the course of the game to join one side or the other.

Major victory - To achieve a major victory, you must complete all of your goals for the game. For most players this will mean achieving both an objective based on your affiliation as well as your personal objectives. Neutral players only need to complete their personal objectives for a major victory.


Minor victory - To achieve a minor victory, you simply need to achieve one of your objectives (either solo or affiliation objectives)


The Schedule:

This game is meant to be time zone friendly for those whom live in other parts of the world, or work odd hours that make normal games more difficult. The daily schedule will consist of one combined game period (instead of the normal day/night cycles). Each day game period will end at 9pm EST. There will likely be moderator posts throughout the day as certain activities trigger them, however a daily update post will be made each night between 9pm EST and midnight EST.

Each player will have a certain activity or number of activities that they can do during each 24 hour day period. The orders can be PM'd at any time during that day cycle, however some activities will only be triggered during certain periods of time each day. Any PM'd orders for time sensitive activities that are sent in ahead of that time will automatically be executed at the earliest time they are allowed. Thusly, orders may be submitted ahead of time as well as conditional orders may be sent in based on certain other events happening. I reserve the right to disallow certain conditional orders if I feel they are unfair or do not fall within the spirit of the game.

Play will continue over the weekends, however it will be slowed down. Instead of each day cycle occuring like normal, there will only be one day cycle that occurs during the weekend. The weekend day cycle will begin at 9:00pm EST on friday and end at 8:59pm EST on sunday evening. Later in the game the option to speed up weekend play, or any other play is a possibility but would require all remaining players to consent to it beforehand.

Sign up issues:

This game is meant to be in the Big city, so it is designed to be quite large by its nature. The game has well over 30 roles currently defined if that many do indeed sign up. If you wish to sign up, please do so in this thread below. If there are any questions regarding this game, please feel free to PM me and I will respond as quickly as I can.

[Alan T]

Below is listed many but not all of the roles, occupations and identities in the game. There also will likely be a number listed below that are not present in the game. This list is meant to give an idea of the setting inside of the game.

Mafia:

Boss - The head of Big City's mafia, he is smart but ruthless. He is the boss, and what he says goes in the Big City underground.

The Muscle - Obviously the Boss won't get his hands dirty sweating the small stuff. He needs a trusted henchman to apply the proper pressure at needed times.


The Professionals:

The Banker - Money is his thing and he excels at managing it. If money is power, he might be one of the most powerful men in the big city. Does this however make him a powerful companion, or a big target?

The Doctor - Sometimes "accidents" happen, luckily he is here to save the day.

The Shop Owner - Everyone needs things to buy right? This gentleman makes his living peddling his wares.


The shady:

Thug - Not quite the brightest bulb in the lamp, but he can hit you really hard with a lead pipe.

Pickpocket - Where did you place your wallet again?

Hacker - Not all crimes involve breaking in through the front door. This man can rob you blind while eating a frosty.



Law Enforcement:

Detectives - These men investigate the scene of the crime and attempt to keep order in the Big City

Chief of Detectives - He manages the Big CIty's force of detectives in an effort to keep some flow to the workload.

Judge - The only voted upon job in this game. Can approve search warrants, arrest warrants or sentence people for their crimes.



Hired Security:

Firewall specialist - Have a high tech computer environment? He is the best at keeping it safe.

Bodyguard - Ex-Special ops. Its difficult to get the drop on him, and he might be pretty handy if you have attacted the wrong type of attention.


The Independants:

The sports gambler - Dog races, NBA games, snail races... You name it he bets it.

Poker player - Everyone and their brother is a poker player these days. This man puts his money where his mouth is.


Blue Collar workers:

Janitor - Someone has to clean up the mess made around here.

Construction employee - As the Big City grows, he helps build it... literally.


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Death or other ways to be removed from the game:

There are three ways to be removed from the game:

1) Being lynched by the cityfolk (see below)
2) Being killed by the mafia
3) Being sentenced by the judge for a crime.

Once removed from the game, the player is permanently out of the game and will not return. Allegiances will be stated as the player is removed. Their occupation will be inferred during the next daily update.

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Daily actions from all members:

Each day in the Big City, the people's anger flares to the point where a lynch mob is formed. In order to prevent being a target of the lynch mob yourself, all players must each day place a vote in this thread for whom you wish to see lynched. To place a vote, simply enter the vote with the player's name bolded such as this:

Vote Alan T

Failure to place a daily vote will likely result in negative consequences for the player involved.

In addition to the daily lynched vote, Each day the Big City's judge can be voted out and replaced with a new judge. This vote is a private vote sent in to me via PM. You do not have to post your judge vote in this thread, and you do not even have to place a judge vote each day if you do not wish to. In order to elect a judge, greater than 50% of all remaining players in the game must select that judge in the same daily cycle. The result of the daily judge vote will be posted in the daily update.

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Money management:

For many, your objectives might be based somewhat around money. A big decision for you might be how to keep your money safe. Each player has the following options to keep their money safeguarded:

1) Keep it in the Big City Bank
2) Keep it on your person
3) Keep it stored in your home under your bed matress.
4) (Mafia only) Allow the mafia boss to hold on to your money.

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Allegiance objectives:

Mafia - The Mafia team objective is to have a 1:1 ratio with the rest of the Big City (including all townspeople as well as independants) as well as getting one of your own elected as the judge.

Townspeople - Remove the mafia boss and his family from the game.

Independants - You have no allegiance specific objectives.

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The Detectives:

The detectives have the job of keeping order in the Big City. To do so, they must investigate crimes as well as make the arrest. Each day, the detectives individually have the options to do one of the following:

1) Investigate crime scene [With which crime scene listed]
2) Search location [With which player's home to search] (Requires proper search warrant from the judge)
3) Make arrest [with which player to arrest] (Requires proper arrest warrant from the judge).
4) Records lookup [Include which player or which fingerprints to look up records for. All matches in the Detective database will come back in return]

In addition to one of these four actions, each detective may also submit a request for one type of warrant each day. To place a request for a warrant, the dectective must PM me with the type of warrant and appropriate location or player it is for. A judge is not bound to approve any request for a warrant.

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Reporting a crime:

Sometimes, the unfortunate happens and you are victimized. If you find yourself a victim of a crime, please call the Big City police department by dialing 9-1-1. If your phone is not capable of dialing 911, you may also PM me with the crime that you would like to report. Please include the time, location and other details you wish to include.
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Being arrested:

A player when in jail is unable to perform any of their daily actions. A jailed player may only accomplish certain tasks by allowing the Big City jailer to perform the task for them. In order to have the town jailer perform a certain task for you, you must bribe him. To bribe the jailer, you must send me a PM with how much you wish to bribe with, what the task is you wish to accomplish. The only tasks you may have the jailer perform is one normally available to you when you are free from jail.


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The Big City Judge:

During the course of each day, a judge may issue one of each type of actions:

1) Issue search warrant [Include location]
2) Issue arrest warrant [Include player]
3) Sentence/Free player [include player.] (Player must have previously been arrested.)

A warrant is only good until the following day cycle ends. A Warrant issued at 8:59pm EST on Tuesday will be valid until 9:00pm EST on Wednesday. A warrant issued at 9:01pm EST on Tuesday will be valid until 9:00pm EST on Thursday. Any arrested player must be sentenced by the game cycle following their arrest, or they will automatically be set free. A player arrested at 8:59pm EST on Tuesday must be sentenced by 9:00pm EST on Wednesday or they will be set free. A player arrested at 9:01pm EST on Tuesday must be sentenced by 9:00pm EST on Thursday night or they will be set free.

When a player is sentenced guilty, they will be removed from the game regardless of what the sentence is for.

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The Mafia family:

The Mafia has the boss at the head of the family. He also has other family members who assist in the "Family operation". Not all members of the mafia are family, and thus some of the mafia henchmen are nothing but muscle working for the Boss. In return for loyal henchmen, the Mafia boss of course rewards generously.


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The Underground Messageboard:

In the internet age, you can find sites that do pretty much anything. The same is true here in the Big City where the rumored Underground messageboard lives. Rumor has it you might find good deals on hot items, juicy info about hot targets, possible job opportunities or the latest happenings in the underground. This information comes at a price however, and that price may fluxuate as time goes on. Each day the daily membership price of the Underground messageboard will be posted in the daily update. All posts on the underground messageboard are anonymous (or are they?)

The daily Underground messagboard actions that underground members may perform: (you may only post one message each day)

1) Post an item you would like to sell. (Posting a price is entirely optional)
2) Post a topic of information.
3) Post a job that you are looking for someone to fill. (posting the details of the job is entirely optional)

To post one of the above actions, simply send me a PM with the post you which to make. To inquire about someone else's post, you must also send me a PM with which Underground post you have an inquire about. Detailed info of the inquired post between the two parties will be done through me via PM. As I said, all underground activities are kept anonymous (maybe).

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Disclaimer:

I reserve the right to post additional rules, or modify the rules, roles or occupations at any time to fix game imbalances. If there are any questions about the rules, or needs for clarifications, please feel free to post in the thread, or privately via PM at any time for more information. I also reserve the right however to keep certain things hidden during the game to improve game playability.

[Alan T]

Day 1 start: http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?p=1403256#post1403256

Signup list:

1. Sndvls
2. Jonathan Ezarik
3. Swaggs - Murdered Day 6 - Town Janitor
4. Bsak16 - Lynched Day 7 - Mafia Drug Dealer
5. Path12 - Lynched Day 9 - Top Secret Bodyguard
6. Kingfc22 - Sentenced Day 8 - Card player
7. Tyrith - Murdered Day 3 - Police Dispatcher
8. Lathum - Murdered Day 6 - Detective
9. ImTheCrew - Lynched Day 6 - Pickpocket
10. St.Cronin - Lynched Day 2 - Mafia Crime Boss
11. Anxiety
12. Blade6119 - Murdered Day 9 - Pawn Shop Manager
13. Hoopsguy - Murdered Day 4 - Crazy delusional psychotic patient
14. Barkeep49 - Lynched Day 5 - Mafia Hacker
15. Ntndeacon - Lynched Day 1 - Detective
16. Marathoner - Lynched Day 4 - Thug
17. Narcizo - Lynched Day 8 - Banker
18. Chief Rum - Lynched Day 9 - Reformed Gambling addict
19. DaddyTorgo - Lynched Day 3 - Mafia Crime Boss
20. Lonestargirl - Murdered Day 9 - Detective

[SnDvls]

if you'll have me I'll be in

[Jonathan Ezarik]

In.

[Swaggs]

Damnit...

I was just thinking that I am due for a WW break, but Alan T's Tombstone game was one of the most fun that I have played in.

[Dr. Sak]

I'd like to join.

VOTE SWAGGS

Sorry to jump the gun :)

[path12]

This looks cool, Alan. I'm in.

[kingfc22]

Not sure how much time I will have, but I'll play.

[Tyrith]

Sure, why not, I'll go at it.

[Lathum]

In.

[ImTheCrew]

im in

[st.cronin]

in, please

[Lathum]

Poker player - Everyone and their brother is a poker player these days. This man puts his money where his mouth is.

I take offense to this

[Abe Sargent]

Ill be in as long as I don;t get voted off by AlanT.

[Tyrith]

King, it's nice to see you playing again, it's been a while :)

[st.cronin]

This looks like it will resemble Alan's last game, which was absolutely awesome.

[Blade6119]

ill play

[SnDvls]

Ill be in as long as I don;t get voted off by AlanT.

so I can do it for him ;)

[hoopsguy]

I'll give it a shot - the 24 hour option is sucking me in at a time where real-life work is very busy. Hopefully it works out well and I'm still able to play my normal game (whatever the heck that is).

[Barkeep49]

I will play.

[Abe Sargent]

so I can do it for him ;)

Shh you :)

[Tyrith]

I'll give it a shot - the 24 hour option is sucking me in at a time where real-life work is very busy. Hopefully it works out well and I'm still able to play my normal game (whatever the heck that is).

That's the game where you see through everything we say and manipulate us all into thinking you're looking out for our best interest while you're busy slaughtering us en masse at night :P

[ntndeacon]

I would love to play.

[Marathoner]

this sounds cool, I'd like to play

[kingfc22]

King, it's nice to see you playing again, it's been a while :)

Yea, after the whole posts don't count anymore thing I decided to take a break. :D:p

[Narcizo]

The time zone thing means that this will probably be my only chance to take part in a WW game so I'd like to play please.

[Chief Rum]

Oh, I gotta be a part of this one.

[hoopsguy]

VOTE PERPETUALLY LURKING NARCIZO



:D

[Lorena]

VOTE PERPETUALLY LURKING NARCIZO



:D

lol

for some reason I thought Narcizo was Alan's undercover screename... not sure why. I think one of the games he was a wolf I saw Narcizo on when Alan was not.

[Narcizo]

VOTE PERPETUALLY LURKING NARCIZO

:D

Hah! That clearly won't be me as I will be Constantly Putting My Foot In My Mouth Narcizo now.

[DaddyTorgo]

IN

[Alan T]

I'll give more time for any further signups over the weekend. We will close the signups Monday morning at 8am EST. I'll do all of the role assignments (courtesy of random.org) at that point and start sending out PMs Monday morning. Day 1 will start whenever all of the PMs are out during the day on Monday and Day 1 will end Tuesday night at 9pm EST.

[LoneStarGirl]

uhm.... I kind of want to play, but I still want to boycott....

I guess go ahead and put me in and if i decide not to play Ill let you know by Sunday night Alant

[hoopsguy]

ETA for this? Sorry if already posted ...

[st.cronin]

I assume roles go out late Sunday or sometime on Monday. I further assume that the game starts then.

[Chief Rum]

ETA for this? Sorry if already posted ...

I assume roles go out late Sunday or sometime on Monday. I further assume that the game starts then.

...

I'll give more time for any further signups over the weekend. We will close the signups Monday morning at 8am EST. I'll do all of the role assignments (courtesy of random.org) at that point and start sending out PMs Monday morning. Day 1 will start whenever all of the PMs are out during the day on Monday and Day 1 will end Tuesday night at 9pm EST.

[Lathum]

this needs to start, I am getting the shakes

[Alan T]

Signups are now closed and I am making the final private list of what roles will be and won't be included in this game. Random.org will be invoked for the assigning of the roles and PMs will start to go out after that. The game will officially begin after all PMs are out and I have made an introduction post officially starting day 1.

You may start being in character however once you receive your PM. Please keep in mind however that not everyone has received theirs at that point however. Also remember any quoting or hinting of what is in the PM is forbidden, and due to the way PMs are sent out might actually create a very false circle of trust.

[Barkeep49]

Do we have equal access to money in each of the 4 places?

[Barkeep49]

Does someone start as the judge or do we have to elect one?

[st.cronin]

Barkeep, my guess is that we do have equal access, but that the downside to keeping money in the bank is that if you make a withdrawal, somebody might know. The downside to keeping it in the other places is it might get stolen.

just a wag

[Alan T]

Do we have equal access to money in each of the 4 places?

Yes, access to the money is the same. However there are upsides and downsides to how the money is stored.

Does someone start as the judge or do we have to elect one?

There is no judge to start the game, however day 1 the town may elect a new judge. More info on that when day 1 starts.

[Lathum]

role received

[Alan T]

Its the Big City, and you are a small part of the every day happenings here. You've lived your entire life here peacefully and happy until recently. Crime is increasing, and people have become afraid to leave their own homes. Many homes now have bars on their windows and friendly neighbors have been replaced with cold, judgemental looks. Will you be able to do your part to help clean up the town you call home?

Current Judge: None

In Jail: None

Warrants: None

Injuries: None

Job Openings: None

Pawn Shop items for sell: None

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Day 1 has officially started. All players are required to make a lynch mob vote during day 1 publically in this thread. Failure to do so will only hurt your own standing with the mob in the future. The player with the most votes will end up being lynched by the angry mob.

In addition to the lynch mob vote, you may also choose to elect a player as the judge. You should send the Judge vote to me via PM and this vote is kept private. You may vote for yourself if you wish. A judge must receive more than 50% of the active player votes in order to be elected.

You may also subscribe to the Underground messageboard at this time. To subscribe to the message board you must send $100 subscription fee to me Via PM and you will receive an anonymous user ID. Once subscribed, you may make further posts to the underground board by submitting new PMs to me with a small payment of $25 per post. It is free to read the underground messageboard once you have paid your one time membership fee.

If you find yourself victimized during the day, you may report a crime by sending me a PM with the details of the crime. (Time, date, location, etc). Reporting a bogus crime might have adverse effects however.

Players may now submit day 1 actions at any time, and players with immediate actions will have the processed as received throughout the day.

Deadline for Day 1 is: Tuesday 9:00pm EST. Its a long day 1, but its needed for many roles.

[st.cronin]

city mouse, checking in

Barkeep, I have a question. In the Tombstone game, you were a wolf. You came out on day 1 suggesting that everybody reveal all roles, under the theory that information helps the village.

What are your thoughts in this game? Do you advocate something similar?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Greetings, fellow Big Citites (Big Citiers?) Looking forward to working with the rest of you to help clean up this city we all love.

[Barkeep49]

People were more likely to tell the truth then because roles were value neutral, but they're not that way here. If it's decided that mass reveal is a good strategy I have no qualms saying my role.

[path12]

Checking in. Have to familiarize myself with the rules a bit I guess. Seems a no brainer to join the underground network though, doesn't it?

[Barkeep49]

Checking in. Have to familiarize myself with the rules a bit I guess. Seems a no brainer to join the underground network though, doesn't it?
It's not a no brainier for me. I'm poor.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Seems a no brainer to join the underground network though, doesn't it?

If you can afford it. $100 to just read a message board? Another $25 to post? For some it's a no brainer, but for others, not so much.

[st.cronin]

The message board thing fascinates me. I'm not sure I can afford it, but its a cool mechanic.

[Alan T]

One clarification. For people with time sensitive role actions.. Day 1 times that actions can begin all are Tuesday. If you have an action that can not begin until after 4pm EST each day, for day one that will be 4pm EST Tuesday.

On most days its only a 24 hour period, so those days its self explanatory. For weekends, the same is true, the second day is when the action will trigger. If you have questions regarding your specific action, please feel free to PM me.

[Lathum]

I'm not so sure I comprehend the idea of the message board...

[Blade6119]

Checking in, wont be around at all today really...tomorrow ill be free though

[st.cronin]

I'm not so sure I comprehend the idea of the message board...

I think what happens is, you sign up for it, and you can send and recieve messages. But you don't know who is sending and recieving messages - its all anonymous.

So, for example, the seer might subscribe and post his findings there.

[Lathum]

I think what happens is, you sign up for it, and you can send and recieve messages. But you don't know who is sending and recieving messages - its all anonymous.

So, for example, the seer might subscribe and post his findings there.


yeah but who's to say the mob can't join and send false messages as the seer about innocent villegars to throw us off.

This seems more likely since one would assume the mob has more money then the average citiczen

[st.cronin]

yeah but who's to say the mob can't join and send false messages as the seer about innocent villegars to throw us off.

This seems more likely since one would assume the mob has more money then the average citiczen

Oh, I agree. I was just pointing out one possible usage. How it actually plays out, who knows.

[SnDvls]

checking in role recieved
not sure how much I'll be on today...popping in and out I assume

[Swaggs]

I'm here and have received my role.

I'll be working most of the rest of today, but will be around some tonight and tomorrow afternoon.

[Dr. Sak]

Role received. I am still trying to read everything so I understadn what is going on.

[hoopsguy]

Hmm, I'm not too keen on this idea of "checking in". Seems like some sort of a trap, if you ask me.

That said, I do want to live free in our city and I'll be glad to seek the company of like-minded individuals. The rest of you can rot, and I'll do my part to see to it that the experience is painful.

[Tyrith]

Ah, hoops always amuses me :P

[path12]

Hmm, I'm not too keen on this idea of "checking in". Seems like some sort of a trap, if you ask me.

That said, I do want to live free in our city and I'll be glad to seek the company of like-minded individuals. The rest of you can rot, and I'll do my part to see to it that the experience is painful.

So you have the ability to inflict pain?

[Tyrith]

So you have the ability to inflict pain?

This sounds like JTR all over again...

[Blade6119]

Id like to be the judge, and id love if you would all elect me

[st.cronin]

Id like to be the judge, and id love if you would all elect me

Qualifications?

[Blade6119]

Qualifications?

Im not a member of the mafia, a fact that can be proven if necessary.

Im not rich, so i speak for the people.

Im not hoopsguy :p

[hoopsguy]

So you have the ability to inflict pain?

Not any more or less than any other man. But I reckon I'm a little more willing to do so without apologizing for doing what needs to be done.

This city can be an unforgiving place for those who attract the wrong kind of attention - I know that from hard-earned experience.

Don't take this as me representing myself as some kind of hero or anything crazy like that. You would be looking at the wrong guy. I'm just a man who is going to speak his mind and what I have to say is probably going to rankle a few people before it is all said and done.

[Tyrith]

Im not a member of the mafia, a fact that can be proven if necessary.

Im not rich, so i speak for the people.

Im not hoopsguy :p

Can we prove it without spilling your blood?

[Blade6119]

Can we prove it without spilling your blood?
Yes sir, though id prefer we not unless it becomes an issue

[hoopsguy]

There is zero chance I will vote for Blade as judge. I'm oh-to-familiar with his type in these parts. No sirree, although if Tyrith were to pick blood to spill he could do much worse than Blade6119.

[Blade6119]

There is zero chance I will vote for Blade as judge. I'm oh-to-familiar with his type in these parts. No sirree, although if Tyrith were to pick blood to spill he could do much worse than Blade6119.

And what is my type dr. pain?

[Alan T]

I'm stepping away for a bit. People submitting instant type actions will have the actions processed as soon as I'm back to the computer (90 minutes roughly) in the order they were received.

[Tyrith]

There is zero chance I will vote for Blade as judge. I'm oh-to-familiar with his type in these parts. No sirree, although if Tyrith were to pick blood to spill he could do much worse than Blade6119.

I'm thinking this same thing. There's no way I'd elect you judge, blade, because if you were bad you'd make it very difficult on us. It's a 2 up 5 down trade, in slang terms.

There's a definite danger in putting someone too powerful in power. I'd rather it be someone that is experienced/qualified but not one of the uber-vets for stability and safety reasons. That still leaves a lot of options.

[st.cronin]

I would be most comfortable selecting as judge somebody who HAD money. I would guess somebody like that would be hard to bribe. (Assuming bribery is a mechanic.)

[Blade6119]

I can prove im good...if you want to elect someone who cant, then that just speaks for itself

[Tyrith]

I would be most comfortable selecting as judge somebody who HAD money. I would guess somebody like that would be hard to bribe. (Assuming bribery is a mechanic.)

Such a person could also view the underground message board, allowing them to get more information first hand and make better informed decisions.

[Tyrith]

I can prove im good...if you want to elect someone who cant, then that just speaks for itself

The only way this works, though, is if you prove it before we elect you. The other way around leaves far too much space for your gamesmanship.

[hoopsguy]

And what is my type dr. pain?

I think we both know that perfectly well. And others will before this is done with ...

[Blade6119]

Then elect who you will, im not willing to do that for you. I will be very suspicious of who you vote for though

[Blade6119]

I think we both know that perfectly well. And others will before this is done with ...

im warn you, such comments can leave much to the imagination...and when my mind wanders, so does my trust. My trust is not something you should wish to play freely with

[st.cronin]

Such a person could also view the underground message board, allowing them to get more information first hand and make better informed decisions.

Another good point. So, who has money? I have some money (enough to afford the msg board), but I suspect there are others here who would make better judges than me.

[Blade6119]

For those who can clear me, do not...i want the wolves to worry about what i might be. Ill let you know if i change my mind, but i ask you for now to let me get killed

[DaddyTorgo]

checking in!

[Tyrith]

For those who can clear me, do not...i want the wolves to worry about what i might be. Ill let you know if i change my mind, but i ask you for now to let me get killed

Oh ho ho. Bringing out the drama quite early this game, blade. It's quite amusing.

[Blade6119]

Oh ho ho. Bringing out the drama quite early this game, blade. It's quite amusing.
Im glad my play amuses you tryith...i hope it remains so funny when its your head im after

[Tyrith]

Im glad my play amuses you tryith...i hope it remains so funny when its your head im after

Hopefully, I try to have fun playing WW winning or losing :P

[st.cronin]

So, to recap: Blade distrusts everybody. Nobody trusts Blade.

[Blade6119]

Cross me, and that theory will be tested

[Blade6119]

So, to recap: Blade distrusts everybody. Nobody trusts Blade.

Wrong, i have a trust list and people who trust me...you just dont know about whos who on that list

[DaddyTorgo]

I can see some interesting stuff has already gone down. I'm not sure if I should spend some of my money to subscribe to the message board, on the assumption that we will gain some information from it and it would be useful to have more than one person on it (plus it's just a damm cool mechanic that I want to see how it works). Curious (as always) about what Blade is up to. He always seems to draw attention early.

[st.cronin]

Right, ok: Blade has a secret trust list. Its beyond me how anybody could have a trust list on day 1, except for masons and wolves. I don't think Blade is claiming to be either, so I'm just going to ignore his nonsense.

[Blade6119]

Is there a way to make money over the course of this game?

[Blade6119]

Right, ok: Blade has a secret trust list. Its beyond me how anybody could have a trust list on day 1, except for masons and wolves. I don't think Blade is claiming to be either, so I'm just going to ignore his nonsense.

Day actions cronin, ive already used mine....

[ntndeacon]

Right, ok: Blade has a secret trust list. Its beyond me how anybody could have a trust list on day 1, except for masons and wolves. I don't think Blade is claiming to be either, so I'm just going to ignore his nonsense.

Are there masons? I do not remember seeing them as being possible.

[Blade6119]

And cronins comments have moved him way down my trust list...it seems to me almost everyone has a role, so him not seeming to know what day actions are(which i tend to associate with villagers) worries me.

VOTE ST.CRONIN

[Blade6119]

and im out, cheers yall

[Marathoner]

Checking in, looking forward to making this city safe.

[path12]

I don't see the need to elect a judge today. If his/her duties are approving search warrants, sentencing and whatever the other thing was, I don't think we're going to know enough about anyone to need those things today.

We're better off getting the right person in there rather than just filling a spot.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

And cronins comments have moved him way down my trust list...it seems to me almost everyone has a role, so him not seeming to know what day actions are(which i tend to associate with villagers) worries me.


I don't put much stock in cronin not knowing what day actions are available. I'm good, and while I have some day actions, I'm not able to get any kind of information where I'm able to form a list of people I trust. I think most good guys are limited in what they can do during the day as well.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I don't see the need to elect a judge today. If his/her duties are approving search warrants, sentencing and whatever the other thing was, I don't think we're going to know enough about anyone to need those things today.

We're better off getting the right person in there rather than just filling a spot.

I agree. We don't want to elect a mafia member to the seat, and I don't know if it's possible for a detective to hold both jobs, but if so, that's something we should also try to keep from happening.

[Abe Sargent]

Another good point. So, who has money? I have some money (enough to afford the msg board), but I suspect there are others here who would make better judges than me.

If you want an alternative to the folks who have already thrown their ring in the pot, you could elect me as the judge. I'm already sent a message to subscribe to said board.


-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

I don't see the need to elect a judge today. If his/her duties are approving search warrants, sentencing and whatever the other thing was, I don't think we're going to know enough about anyone to need those things today.



I disagree with the idea that we don;t need to elect a judge today. Correct me if Im wrong, but hte judge we elect today can act tomorrow, but not today. So shouldn;t we try to find someone we can agree on and et that person in teh judge role quickly. THat way, tomorrow, the judge can start acting immediately.


-Anxiety

[LoneStarGirl]

I definitly think we need to elect a judge today. And I wouldn't mind being elected as I am a person of good and could prove it if necessary.

But as I said I would....

vote Blade

[Lathum]

Another good point. So, who has money? I have some money (enough to afford the msg board), but I suspect there are others here who would make better judges than me.

This comment makes me very suspiscous of Cronin. 2 thinkgs

1. I have no idea if I have alot of money or not relative to other people
2. With an obvious crime element running around why the hell would I want to potentialy put a target on my back by saying how much money I have?

[path12]

Both LSG and Blade have now said they could prove that they were good. How? (not that I want you to say anything that might target you), I just don't get it. I mean, I could say what my occupation is, but I don't see how that would prove I was good one way or the other.

[Blade6119]

Both LSG and Blade have now said they could prove that they were good. How? (not that I want you to say anything that might target you), I just don't get it. I mean, I could say what my occupation is, but I don't see how that would prove I was good one way or the other.
Some occupations have actions that involve other players...i dont know LSGs, i just know my role and the benefactors of my actions(benefactor may be the wrong term, maybe victims lol).

[Tyrith]

This comment makes me very suspiscous of Cronin. 2 thinkgs

1. I have no idea if I have alot of money or not relative to other people
2. With an obvious crime element running around why the hell would I want to potentialy put a target on my back by saying how much money I have?

I don't know about #2, but there have been several comments made about how much money people have in relationship specifically to affording the MB, so I don't think it's a totally unfounded comment.

[Blade6119]

And my hope is, that my targets believe my role to be good, and that no evil player would start off having such a role.

[Lathum]

I don't know about #2, but there have been several comments made about how much money people have in relationship specifically to affording the MB, so I don't think it's a totally unfounded comment.

how can you say that?

Lets say I am mafia, I need/want money, I am gonna go for someone I know has money.

[Tyrith]

how can you say that?

Lets say I am mafia, I need/want money, I am gonna go for someone I know has money.

I didn't say it was completely intelligent, either. But the comparison was there to be made. Further, it probably helps the village to have some idea as to what's going on early on. By the time the money would likely become an urgent concern (as I suspect most people, if not everyone, has enough to operate for a day or two) there would be information leaks that would allow them to select targets for cash anyway. This just allows us to have a clue before that. All that said, it's just a theory, and the info denial makes sense too.

[st.cronin]

And cronins comments have moved him way down my trust list...it seems to me almost everyone has a role, so him not seeming to know what day actions are(which i tend to associate with villagers) worries me.

VOTE ST.CRONIN

Voting for an active poster on day 1. And not just an active poster, but somebody who is, you know, trying to figure out whats going on, putting out theories instead of cryptical nonsense. Every game it seems like we do this, and it never gets us anywhere.

[st.cronin]

Lathum, I hadn't even thought of the crime syndicate wanting to know about money. I had only of thought of money as a bribing mechanism, or to get information. You are correct, it may not be a good idea to advertise how much money we have.

I would like to hear others thoughts on this, though.

[Blade6119]

Voting for an active poster on day 1. And not just an active poster, but somebody who is, you know, trying to figure out whats going on, putting out theories instead of cryptical nonsense. Every game it seems like we do this, and it never gets us anywhere.

No, every game we kill of a quiet person on day one and that gets us nowhere(except a dead seer in the last small game). You have been active, but being more active is just more chances to slip-up.

Im putting out theories, like you being evil. Ive given you far more insight into my role then any other player has, cryptic or not. Just because you dont like the outcome, doesnt mean you can simply ignore it.

[DaddyTorgo]

my internet is down right now guys n gals. I am hoping its just the lil storm and comcast here in the suburbs. if not I will catch up via phone after dinner...just would rather not on this tiny screen so I am waiting

[Blade6119]

my internet is down right now guys n gals. I am hoping its just the lil storm and comcast here in the suburbs. if not I will catch up via phone after dinner...just would rather not on this tiny screen so I am waiting

The deadline isnt until tomorrow night, so i wouldnt worry about it

[Tyrith]

No, every game we kill of a quiet person on day one and that gets us nowhere(except a dead seer in the last small game). You have been active, but being more active is just more chances to slip-up.

Im putting out theories, like you being evil. Ive given you far more insight into my role then any other player has, cryptic or not. Just because you dont like the outcome, doesnt mean you can simply ignore it.

This smells fishy to me. I remember plenty of times where we have killed active people day 1/2 because of "slip-ups" and it rarely works. We have had a very effective strategy of forcing people to actually participate by the threat of death, because we've had such massive leaks on getting snookered by UTR players so effectively. On that note, ntn, looking at you, don't forget :P

[Blade6119]

This smells fishy to me. I remember plenty of times where we have killed active people day 1/2 because of "slip-ups" and it rarely works. We have had a very effective strategy of forcing people to actually participate by the threat of death, because we've had such massive leaks on getting snookered by UTR players so effectively. On that note, ntn, looking at you, don't forget :P
You can smell around me all you want...i dont expect to live long in this game, and i played to achieve that end. If i die, their not killing our key roles. Im just trying to help with what i have while i can.

I smell your post as a defense of cronin...we can dance like this for the next 2 days or someone besides me can actually say something that matters(lsg did too, so excuse that remark lsg)

[Barkeep49]

I'm firmly in the camp that we need to elect someone today. That person will not be, at this moment, Blade.

[Blade6119]

I'm firmly in the camp that we need to elect someone today. That person will not be, at this moment, Blade.

Ya! Well...! Your aim name makes no sense! TAKE THAT!

[Tyrith]

To a degree it is a defense of cronin, who always seems to take heat early for doing something weird and isn't a wolf any more common than the rest of us. I don't know anything about his allegiance and have no reason to trust him from this game, but historically he's taken more heat than he really deserves just by playstyle.

[Lathum]

Cronin will not get my lynch vote today

[Blade6119]

Since no one seems to like any idea i put forth, im just going to stop putting ideas forward. Have fun lynching a quiet person, keep exploiting that belief to protect the loud wolves in the early days

As well, enjoy appointing a judge that no one can clear...that couldnt possibly fail

[Barkeep49]

Ya! Well...! Your aim name makes no sense! TAKE THAT!
Well considering that I've used this handle online since I was 12 I'd say Barkeep49 doesn't make a whole lot of sense either.

[Barkeep49]

Since no one seems to like any idea i put forth, im just going to stop putting ideas forward. Have fun lynching a quiet person, keep exploiting that belief to protect the loud wolves in the early days

As well, enjoy appointing a judge that no one can clear...that couldnt possibly fail
Thanks for the encouragement! It's always good to hear when people are on the right track!

[Lathum]

Since no one seems to like any idea i put forth, im just going to stop putting ideas forward. Have fun lynching a quiet person, keep exploiting that belief to protect the loud wolves in the early days

As well, enjoy appointing a judge that no one can clear...that couldnt possibly fail

what idea have you put forward other then voting you for sherif?

[path12]

Since no one seems to like any idea i put forth, im just going to stop putting ideas forward. Have fun lynching a quiet person, keep exploiting that belief to protect the loud wolves in the early days

As well, enjoy appointing a judge that no one can clear...that couldnt possibly fail


Nobody has cleared you yet either if I'm not mistaken. Actually, nobody has cleared nobody yet. Or something like that.

[Barkeep49]

what idea have you put forward other then voting you for sherif?

Nobody has cleared you yet either if I'm not mistaken. Actually, nobody has cleared nobody yet. Or something like that.
I'm disappointed in both of you. Blade had some excellent rhetoric and you're both letting facts get in the way of that.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I'm firmly in the camp that we need to elect someone today.

For the sake of discussion, why do you think this? Is it so important that we have to elect a judge right now even though we don't have any warrants out (I'm assuming)?

[Lathum]

For the sake of discussion, why do you think this? Is it so important that we have to elect a judge right now even though we don't have any warrants out (I'm assuming)?

I would imagine because the detectives role is very limited without a judge.

[path12]

I'm disappointed in both of you. Blade had some excellent rhetoric and you're both letting facts get in the way of that.

Personally I think we should go after a quiet person. :D

[Barkeep49]

For the sake of discussion, why do you think this? Is it so important that we have to elect a judge right now even though we don't have any warrants out (I'm assuming)?
Because 50% of the players is real hard. I think it'll be easier to get that number today and get progressively harder for a few days until the end game when it could get easier again. It's clear for the good guys that we want a judge and I worry about our ability to make sure we get a judge.

[Lathum]

Because 50% of the players is real hard. I think it'll be easier to get that number today and get progressively harder for a few days until the end game when it could get easier again. It's clear for the good guys that we want a judge and I worry about our ability to make sure we get a judge.

If I could piggy back on this, we have the best chance of electing a non mafia judge early on before they start killing us.

I think the problem is we need 11? votes, very hard to get but I will take the post if people want to vote me.

[path12]

I'm gonna need a better reason to vote for a judge than "I'll do it if you want to elect me" or "I'd like to be the judge". Just sayin.

[Barkeep49]

I'd be willing to be judge as well and would throw this out there:

Who could we count on to act in the villagers interests even if they're a bad guy at the start of the game?

I'm not sure I know the answer to this but think that this would be a helpful way of framing the discussion.

[Lathum]

I'm gonna need a better reason to vote for a judge than "I'll do it if you want to elect me" or "I'd like to be the judge". Just sayin.

well that's the rub isn't it.

No one. myself included, wants to reveal their role early on and become a target so what do we have to go with.

If we all agree we need a judge then candidates must emerge and someone needs half the support. I am sure there are some roles that being the judge wouldn't work well with so there must be people out there who think they shouldn't be a judge. Real world restrictions could also apply. I am just saying I see nothing standing in the way of me performing my duties if I was elected.

[Tyrith]

I'm gonna need a better reason to vote for a judge than "I'll do it if you want to elect me" or "I'd like to be the judge". Just sayin.

If that's the case you may not be able to vote for a judge until day 3 or 4.

[path12]

Security type? Public servant (doctor, etc)? That's what comes to mind to me.

[path12]

well that's the rub isn't it.

No one. myself included, wants to reveal their role early on and become a target so what do we have to go with.

If we all agree we need a judge then candidates must emerge and someone needs half the support. I am sure there are some roles that being the judge wouldn't work well with so there must be people out there who think they shouldn't be a judge. Real world restrictions could also apply. I am just saying I see nothing standing in the way of me performing my duties if I was elected.

If that's the case you may not be able to vote for a judge until day 3 or 4.

I realize that it is not quite as cut and dried as I phrased it above. But really, if I was a bad guy, the first thing I'd like to do is try and get in the judge seat, wouldn't you?

I guess a better way for me to put it is that I'd like to hear both from more people and some kind of reason why they think they would be a good choice.

Oh, and I'd be happy to do it also. :p

[Lathum]

I think as a bad guy would try and stay out of the lielight early. I actually went back and re read the tombstone game yesterday. In that game there was a sherif, similar to the judge. The sheriff job changed hands about 10 times that game so anyone who played that game realize it would be pointless excersize to try and get elected day one and ride it out to the end.

[Abe Sargent]

I think as a bad guy would try and stay out of the lielight early. I actually went back and re read the tombstone game yesterday. In that game there was a sherif, similar to the judge. The sheriff job changed hands about 10 times that game so anyone who played that game realize it would be pointless excersize to try and get elected day one and ride it out to the end.

Very QFT.

[Abe Sargent]

Wait, was that the game where I was teh actor? That was an awesome role and it worked very well with being the sherriff.

[SnDvls]

the game we had to elect a sheriff we all did this "I'll do it" stuff and then we kept voting them out of office every other day because they didn't do what we wanted and we'd vote someone else in. I just don't want to see us to that multiple times again this game.

I do agree we should get someone in the spot though today or tomorrow, but we also need to realize sometimes they are going to go with what they know too.

[SnDvls]

dola - never mind Lathum just said what I was saying pretty much :(

[SnDvls]

Lathum - do you remember who the 1st "sherrif" in the tombstone game was and weather they were good or bad in the end?

might help that we need to go with our gut on this one too

[Tyrith]

I think it's going to be significantly harder for us to go revolving judges in this game, though, because it's a private vote. It's quite possible for the wolves to sabotage our vote and generally screw with us when they don't have to show it publicly. That would also make it harder to remove a judge than in Tombstone.

[Lathum]

Lathum - do you remember who the 1st "sherrif" in the tombstone game was and weather they were good or bad in the end?

might help that we need to go with our gut on this one too

Saldana and he was good.

[Lathum]

I think it's going to be significantly harder for us to go revolving judges in this game, though, because it's a private vote. It's quite possible for the wolves to sabotage our vote and generally screw with us when they don't have to show it publicly. That would also make it harder to remove a judge than in Tombstone.

this just illustrates my point that it is important to get someone in office now while we control the numbers.

[Marathoner]

I realize that it is not quite as cut and dried as I phrased it above. But really, if I was a bad guy, the first thing I'd like to do is try and get in the judge seat, wouldn't you?

Agreed. If I were a wolf I certainly would try to become a judge early. It would kind of put you in the cat-bird seat so to speak. Assuming the mafia knows who each other is, they could then control the law and the criminal elements.

[Lathum]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Agreed. If I were a wolf I certainly would try to become a judge early. It would kind of put you in the cat-bird seat so to speak. Assuming the mafia knows who each other is, they could then control the law and the criminal elements.

I totally disagree

[DaddyTorgo]

the logic of getting a judge in now seems solid to me as well, although I didn't play in the tombstone game so I don't really understand the pros and cons of it as well as some of you.

I think if there is some sort of "mason" role in the game that we'd want to get one of those people elected to the judgeship, so they can be slightly less "blind" in their actions.

I don't really have any idea yet of any potential vote, it's still very early in the process, there are plenty of people left to check in, and a whole day's worth of discussion to be had first before a vote, so i'm not going to throw a placeholder vote on someone for Day 1 just yet.

[Marathoner]

this just illustrates my point that it is important to get someone in office now while we control the numbers.

But this would seem to support an arguement that the wolves should get in control early, (since it would be hard to remove them later on).

[st.cronin]

this just illustrates my point that it is important to get someone in office now while we control the numbers.

Just out of curiosity, the vote is private, but will the results be public? In other words, do we know if Alan will say

15 votes for player y
3 votes for player x

etc.

[Lathum]

But this would seem to support an arguement that the wolves should get in control early, (since it would be hard to remove them later on).

it would be easy. Reading the rules a few times through I think it would be clear if we had a member of the mafia as a judge and that person would easily be exposed and removed from the game.

[ntndeacon]

Actually in the last game it wasn't as much of an i'll do it...(at least not after the first day) It was a who do you trust idea.

[Marathoner]

it would be easy. Reading the rules a few times through I think it would be clear if we had a member of the mafia as a judge and that person would easily be exposed and removed from the game.

I think the first couple of days, when everyone developing their trust list a corrupt judge could hide and protect his cronies. They probably would be exposed as the game went on and we got a better idea who was on which side.

[Lathum]

look at it this way.

there are 20 players in the game. Lets say there are a max of 4 bad guys including a sympathizer. That gives a 20% chance we elect a bad guy judge. Each day the odds increase and unless we lynch a bad guy they swing in their favor pretty heavily.

[Alan T]

Just out of curiosity, the vote is private, but will the results be public? In other words, do we know if Alan will say

15 votes for player y
3 votes for player x

etc.

Yes the results will be publically posted. Just who voted for who will not be said.

[Lathum]

I think the first couple of days, when everyone developing their trust list a corrupt judge could hide and protect his cronies. They probably would be exposed as the game went on and we got a better idea who was on which side.

The second the judge starts rejecting warrents they would be voted out and lynched.

[Lathum]

So does the judge have any extra security personel?

Can they hire any?

[Alan T]

So does the judge have any extra security personel?

Can they hire any?

The judgeship does not come with any extra personal to guard them. There might be possibilities that they can purchase protection of various methods either through the means of items or service .



Also another thing that was asked that I should clarify. Your items (including money) that you have may be passed by you to another player at any time. Just simply send me a PM with what item(s) you wish to give to which player. Once submitted, those items are then owned by the new player.

[Tyrith]

This comes down to one thing to me. The question of "Who can I trust?" is really not answerable right now, unless someone has some magic source of information that is better used now than later. My guiding question is "Who can I trust to not do stupid crap and not totally screw us if they're bad?" This makes me weary of putting certain players into the judgeship. The judge having money seems like it wouldn't hurt, but since we can gift them money it's not a giant factor.

[Lathum]

Alan, is there a salary that comes with being judge?

[Barkeep49]

Tyrith it sounds like you and I are on about the same page when it comes to deciding who to vote for. Do you have anyone that jumps out to mind as a good candidate? I think we'll need to start to forum a consensus by tomorrow morning if we're to get this done.

[Lathum]

Tyrith it sounds like you and I are on about the same page when it comes to deciding who to vote for. Do you have anyone that jumps out to mind as a good candidate? I think we'll need to start to forum a consensus by tomorrow morning if we're to get this done.

I agree as well.

[Tyrith]

I've kind of started scaring myself about the bad things that can happen with most of the people on the list because I have that much respect for their skill :)

Anxiety would be a good choice if we're looking for someone who is almost certain to not fly apart. You would be too, BK, but you've been so central to this discussion I don't think you'd make a good choice. Path is also typically in control and active. If we want to go with someone new Marathoner and bsak both seem to have their heads screwed on right, IMO.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

The second the judge starts rejecting warrents they would be voted out and lynched.

So all they have to do is go along with the detectives and everything will be alright? What's to prevent a judge in the mafia from following this plan?

If I was in the mafia that's how I'd play it. Try to become the judge, allow everything the detectives brought me, and buy everyone's trust.

[Tyrith]

Trust would be cheap for a judge. Seer scans and other abilities like that would eventually make sure we had a good judge. More than likely not too much would go wrong early.

[Alan T]

Alan, is there a salary that comes with being judge?

Not that publically has been stated.

[Lathum]

So all they have to do is go along with the detectives and everything will be alright? What's to prevent a judge in the mafia from following this plan?

If I was in the mafia that's how I'd play it. Try to become the judge, allow everything the detectives brought me, and buy everyone's trust.

then what difference would it make who we have in office early on. the important thing is that we have someone.

The more I think about it if there was a mafia judge they would actually expose 2 people by denying requests. Themselves and the person they are protecting.

[Barkeep49]

But only one search and arrest warrant can be issued each day. So if the judge gets more than request, as we might very well have more than one detective, the judge will be able to protect someone without it seeming like they are doing so.

[Lathum]

But only one search and arrest warrant can be issued each day. So if the judge gets more than request, as we might very well have more than one detective, the judge will be able to protect someone without it seeming like they are doing so.

I interpreted that as one per detective ( I may be wrong, after all I am not the board moderator) but even so that is 3 different actions that can be done.

I would imagine if a detectives requast is being denied he would be told if someone already selected that action and they have a chance to select another.

[Tyrith]

I have to say, what's the alternative right now? We either have to elect a judge or wait for someone to give us info. How long would we be willing to wait? Would we be willing to sacrifice a seer-type role, if need be, to elect a good judge? The answer to the last question is almost certainly no, so would you all be willing to wait three, four, or even more days to get a good judge? Either someone with a single clear type ability needs to spill, or we have to take our chances, I think.

[Swaggs]

My take on the judge situation:

I think the judge will have a big target on his back. He gets an additional day action that will be detrimental to the mafia, so he will be a likely night target. I, personally, would not want to be the first judge, which leads me to my second thought...

If someone wants to run for judge, I think they should clearly declare themselves and then "campaign" so that we can choose a brave person that will do what he/she says they will do, with the penalty for acting against the group to be voted out of office. Also, this will keep someone from sneaking in the backdoor, since an unannounced candidate could sneak through with annonymous vote.

I also think we need to get a judge on the first day, so that we can take care of the judge's powers.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

But only one search and arrest warrant can be issued each day. So if the judge gets more than request, as we might very well have more than one detective, the judge will be able to protect someone without it seeming like they are doing so.

Another thing to consider: are the detectives immune from mafia influence? If we have a crooked cop and a crooked judge, is there any way for us to know?

[ntndeacon]

according to the rules it is one warrent per detective

[Dr. Sak]

I'm still trying to figure everything out but while we have the numbers in our favor I think that a judge should be selected. If someone wants to become judge we should just let them say why they should be judge. We are all smart enough individuals to separate the good from the bad. That is just my suggestion.

[Barkeep49]

according to the rules it is one warrent per detective
Right each detective can ask for one warrant.

The judge, however, can only issue 1 arrest, 1 search, and 1 sentence per day.

Swaggs: I've said I'm willing to be the Judge. I think I have a good track record at promoting transparency in the games, I'm not afraid to do the right thing, if the need arises, even if it'll get me killed, and I also happen to be a good guy so we wouldn't need to worry about that :).

[Barkeep49]

And I want to be judge since I think my role's pretty vanilla and I'd love to spice it up some.

[Blade6119]

Alan, i ask again: Is there any way to earn money outside of what your role PM told you?

[Blade6119]

what idea have you put forward other then voting you for sherif?

That i think cronin is evil based on his utter-obliviousness to there being day actions, id vote either LSG or i judge because we can prove our goodness(well, someone else can corroborate my story at least). I noted tyrith was defending cronin when he was brought up(another player said cronin seemed suspicious too). I was the first to volunteer for judge role, i was the first to annonce i had a day action, first to announce i had already used it, and i told you i was poor and not hoopsguy in my reasoning to elect me.

Please, tell me anyone who has given even half that amount of info. The only other person who has given any hint to their role i saw was lsg, when she stated she could prove her goodness as well.

[Blade6119]

I am vehemently against cronin, tyrith, or barkeep being the judge. No one will care, but im still saying it

[hoopsguy]

Out of the self-nominated candidates I have seen listed up to this point (Blade, Anxiety, and Barkeep) I would strongly encourage people to go with Anxiety out of this group. I consider the other two players highly suspect and I have seen how those type of people tend to exercise their power.

If you want to be grabbing your ankles asking for another, vote Barkeep or Blade. If you want to have a fighting chance at respectable law and order, Anxiety is the only person who I would consider giving my vote out of those I've seen campaigning for it.

[Barkeep49]

hoops I'd love for you to justify that assertion with some actual examples.

[Tyrith]

Tombstone? :P

[Lathum]

Well I think I would make a good judge. I have pretty good availability and have shown a willingness in the past to do whats best for the village. Plus I have alot of expierience as a bad guy so I won't get played easily.

[Tyrith]

Well I think I would make a good judge. I have pretty good availability and have shown a willingness in the past to do whats best for the village. Plus I have alot of expierience as a bad guy so I won't get played easily.

You're also one of the top 2 or 3 wolf players on the board, so I'd rather not have you in the top seat. Causes too much trouble potentially.

[Barkeep49]

Tombstone? :P
Yeah what did I do in tombstone? I mean sure I was a bad guy, but what really did I do? I got killed by my own team in order to build a CoT around them.

[Blade6119]

Id be much happier with anxiety then barkeep, but as ive said id prefer myself :)

[Tyrith]

Furthermore, I would also like to be the judge to be someone that isn't likely to get into any fights, and Anxiety serves that role pretty well. Barkeep would too, but I honestly think Barkeep has had too much of a hand in this decision making process.

[Blade6119]

Dola, while i would be ok with anxiety im not thrilled with hoops.

If i had someone say my claims were true, would that ease any of your concerns about me?

[Barkeep49]

I love this trust for Anxiety who just went UTR as a wolf, who was only voted out for other considerations.

[hoopsguy]

hoops I'd love for you to justify that assertion with some actual examples.

I bet you would love for me to justify that assertion. It will all come out in time, yes it will. I'm sure we'll talk about it at length, but that time will not be tonight. I'm guessing we'll both be around on Day 2 to chat about this - the mobsters won't want to take out the kook in the watchtower, right?

I'll lay my cards out, but not all of them today. For now, I've said my piece.

[Lathum]

You're also one of the top 2 or 3 wolf players on the board, so I'd rather not have you in the top seat. Causes too much trouble potentially.

I would never make this play as a wolf, the tombstone game already illustrated why it would not work

[Blade6119]

I love this trust for Anxiety who just went UTR as a wolf, who was only voted out for other considerations.

And why should we trust you? I can have someone corroborate my story, give me a reason why i should trust/vote for you

[hoopsguy]

And it ain't so much that I trust Anxiety, but I DON'T TRUST YOU.

Or Blade6119.

[Barkeep49]

Anyhow it's clear I'm not meant to be judge and since we need one I will withdraw my name from consideration.

[Barkeep49]

I bet you would love for me to justify that assertion. It will all come out in time, yes it will. I'm sure we'll talk about it at length, but that time will not be tonight. I'm guessing we'll both be around on Day 2 to chat about this - the mobsters won't want to take out the kook in the watchtower, right?

I'll lay my cards out, but not all of them today. For now, I've said my piece.
You've lost me. Kook in the watchtower?

[Barkeep49]

And it ain't so much that I trust Anxiety, but I DON'T TRUST YOU.

Or Blade6119.
Love you too hoops.

[Tyrith]

I would never make this play as a wolf, the tombstone game already illustrated why it would not work

You'll understand if I don't take your word on that.

And last game was really not a good case to make for metagaming concerns. It was hard to be over the radar with all the nonsense flying around. And if he was UTR as a wolf then being a judge should theoretically reduce his effectiveness as a wolf -- if we're always forcing him to be on his toes, then he should be out of his comfort zone in comparison to previous wolf examples.

[Barkeep49]

I'll tell you now that I'm voting for Anxiety. If Blade is a villager I don't trust him in any role where he can act unilaterally. And if he's a mobster than I shouldn't trust him.

[Tyrith]

I will also be voting for Anxiety, barring any weird circumstances.

[hoopsguy]

There has been a lot of talk from Blade6119 about someone being able to back his version of events. And while that is all well and good, I'm not sure what that would prove at this stage of the game. All it would do is establish linkage between players - not that someone is good or bad.

Unless I'm missing a detail here and there ... might be some kind of fuzzy logic that is escaping me.

While relationships are a good way of looking at people, it is a long way from an honest-to-goodness definitive statement of integrity for either party. And it builds a greater risk for the parties involved when the relationship is as public as the one would be for someone to back Blade on this here point.

So - if someone feels like they can clear Blade6119 right here and now, I guess I'm willing to listen. But I would consider it mighty suspect at this point in time. More risk than reward for both of them, as far as I can tell, if they ain't the actual Mafia trying to pull wool over eyes.

[Blade6119]

I'll tell you now that I'm voting for Anxiety. If Blade is a villager I don't trust him in any role where he can act unilaterally. And if he's a mobster than I shouldn't trust him.
Its always nice to know how people really feel about you...im glad i now understand where we stand

[Barkeep49]

Its always nice to know how people really feel about you...im glad i now understand where we stand
You love your rep :)

And hey at least I didn't suggest you like sodomy as others have about boht of us.

[Lathum]

I don't understand where the love for anxiety comes from but I hope he has enough money to hire protection because if he is voted judge he will likely be an early target

[Lathum]

You love your rep :)

And hey at least I didn't suggest you like sodomy as others have about boht of us.

I must have sat that game out

[Swaggs]

I don't understand where the love for anxiety comes from but I hope he has enough money to hire protection because if he is voted judge he will likely be an early target

I have to think that all of those willing to volunteer know that they have a big target on their backs.

I think Anxiety is a good choice. He is also a good choice to be protected tonight, if anyone is capable.

[Barkeep49]

I don't understand where the love for anxiety comes from but I hope he has enough money to hire protection because if he is voted judge he will likely be an early target
I don't think anyone loves Anxiety. Everyone just feels the hate for me and Blade.

[Blade6119]

There has been a lot of talk from Blade6119 about someone being able to back his version of events. And while that is all well and good, I'm not sure what that would prove at this stage of the game. All it would do is establish linkage between players - not that someone is good or bad.

Unless I'm missing a detail here and there ... might be some kind of fuzzy logic that is escaping me.

While relationships are a good way of looking at people, it is a long way from an honest-to-goodness definitive statement of integrity for either party. And it builds a greater risk for the parties involved when the relationship is as public as the one would be for someone to back Blade on this here point.

So - if someone feels like they can clear Blade6119 right here and now, I guess I'm willing to listen. But I would consider it mighty suspect at this point in time. More risk than reward for both of them, as far as I can tell, if they ain't the actual Mafia trying to pull wool over eyes.

I see...someone who can be cleared, on whatever level, is not to be as trusted as someone who can be in no way cleared. Hoopsguy, is that what your claiming?

[Tyrith]

My main deal with Anxiety is that he's stable and he's shown he's willing to listen to reason, and while he's a good player he's not the ultra upper crest of wolves that have proven their mastermind skills so far. We have to elect SOMEONE, and those are the qualities I'd like to have.

[Barkeep49]

If you want to be grabbing your ankles asking for another, vote Barkeep or Blade.
Lathum this is what I was talking about.

[Blade6119]

You love your rep :)

No, thats where your mistaken...what i love/loved is not my rep...what i loved was what i believed to be mutual respect with a few players i enjoy playing with.

[Tyrith]

I see...someone who can be cleared, on whatever level, is not to be as trusted as someone who can be in no way cleared. Hoopsguy, is that what your claiming?

No, I think he's saying that a guy that can be "cleared" as this stage is to be equally trusted as an uncleared person, because of the capacity for deception. And you knew that, too :P

[Lathum]

oh, I guess I am in that game then

[Blade6119]

No, I think he's saying that a guy that can be "cleared" as this stage is to be equally trusted as an uncleared person, because of the capacity for deception. And you knew that, too :P

No, i really didnt...im just feeling out everyone...there seems to be a small circles forming...the same way many of you have no idea how i can seem to have a trusted player, i cant understand hoops' distrust of barkeep and i over anxiety or the fact everyone glossed over LSG wanting to be judge when they had the discussions. Its little things like that, those small details, that im trying to understand.

[Barkeep49]

No, thats where your mistaken...what i love/loved is not my rep...what i loved was what i believed to be mutual respect with a few players i enjoy playing with.
Blade: No offense was meant at that remark. When you have a duke role you like to go for the big bold play. I'd rather not have that in the judge.

[Tyrith]

No, i really didnt...im just feeling out everyone...there seems to be a small circles forming...the same way many of you have no idea how i can seem to have a trusted player, i cant understand hoops' distrust of barkeep and i over anxiety or the fact everyone glossed over LSG wanting to be judge when they had the discussions. Its little things like that, those small details, that im trying to understand.

It's not that I don't trust either of you less than him, but his characteristics makes me want to have in the office more than you. Right now I am compeltely even on my trust level for everyone, in terms on if I know they're a wolf or not.

[Blade6119]

Blade: No offense was meant at that remark. When you have a duke role you like to go for the big bold play. I'd rather not have that in the judge.

It's not that I don't trust either of you less than him, but his characteristics makes me want to have in the office more than you. Right now I am compeltely even on my trust level for everyone, in terms on if I know they're a wolf or not.

Then i will never agree with you guys..you are picking the judge based on who the player is, im trying to pick a judge we can trust more then others. Difference in theology, one that likely wont be changing.

Anxiety is a nice, calm guy...but no matter what he does, i cant trust him so i see his value as a judge diminished. Thats my viewpoint, and you dont share it. So ill place my vote and drop out of this argument.

[path12]

I still haven't seen this verification Blade keeps talking about. I'd consider him with that, but without it no way.

If we're talking about people who are proven to be decent decision makers, I'd agree with Anxiety, but I'd also toss out JE, Lathum and Swaggs as also being that sort of group.

[Blade6119]

I still haven't seen this verification Blade keeps talking about. I'd consider him with that, but without it no way.

If we're talking about people who are proven to be decent decision makers, I'd agree with Anxiety, but I'd also toss out JE, Lathum and Swaggs as also being that sort of group.

Hoops and tyrith, two people im not exactly all trusting of right now, have both said revealing would be useless and they would treat me just as if i didnt reveal. Its interesting, but since i have no support whatsoever(publically at least), im not going to press anything for now

[Tyrith]

I thought about JE for sure. Swaggs doesn't seem to be quite as active as some of them other players mentioned, meaning I don't think I'd prefer him in this role. Lathum, well, Lathum scares me :P

[Barkeep49]

Blade: There's been no verification at this point. Of course I'm willing to change my opinion and vote's not been cast. But while you (and LSG as you point) have hinted that you can be cleared neither of you have been. I'm actually inclined to believe that you are a good guy, but not so much so that I'm willing to change directions at this point though there's still a fair amount of time before the votes are due.

[Lathum]

Lathum, well, Lathum scares me :P




BOO

[Blade6119]

Blade: There's been no verification at this point. Of course I'm willing to change my opinion and vote's not been cast. But while you (and LSG as you point) have hinted that you can be cleared neither of you have been. I'm actually inclined to believe that you are a good guy, but not so much so that I'm willing to change directions at this point though there's still a fair amount of time before the votes are due.

It wont harm him at all, so ill go ahead and say that DT is the person who can corroborate i targeted him with my action today and i did him no harm. I did not take anything of his, did not attack him, and cant clear him really. I learned one thing about him, which ill hold onto for now, and he knows what i was doing in regards to him. I dont think he can say im good, like i cant of him, but he can confirm i meant him no harm, i did do what i claimed to do, and was interested in something besides himself.

My hope is he believes this role is a villager role, and my early use of it will lead him to trust me. I cant clear him, and what i learned about him is somewhat useless to me at the current time. I hope that changes, but i think today was pretty bad for me. I dont expect to have many successes really, as i know my limit.

[path12]

Judge is going to be a pretty thankless job anyway. I remember being Pharaoh......people are gonna bitch no matter what you do.

[Lathum]

Judge is going to be a pretty thankless job anyway. I remember being Pharaoh......people are gonna bitch no matter what you do.

oh great. Blade is in a bad mood and you're gonna go and bring up that game. :D

[Blade6119]

oh great. Blade is in a bad mood and you're gonna go and bring up that game. :D

BLOOD FOE@!!!!!!! :p

[Swaggs]

Judge is going to be a pretty thankless job anyway. I remember being Pharaoh......people are gonna bitch no matter what you do.

Agreed.

As soon as a judge makes a bad decision, he is going to big subjected to a lot of accusations and will probably be a lynch target. And, if he does a good job, the mafia will want to knock him out.

I am at a bit of a loss as to why Blade would want a role like this, since he seemingly has another type of role already.

[Blade6119]

I expect to be dead quite soon anyways...my role is one that will look awfully like a seer to anyone i target. Its simply a matter of time before i hit a wolf and they worry about what my role is. Since i expect to die soon anyways, the threat of death from either side by being judge doesnt bother me.

[hoopsguy]

Blade6119, let's make sure we are talking the same language here. Someone clearing you at this point in the game seems a bit unlikely to me without you holding certain special privleges that I don't expect folks would be talking about right here and now. That is why I consider the clearing aspects of your story to be on the dubious side at the moment.

Now, as you have gone forward and named DaddyTorgo to be the "clearer" I will certainly be fair minded towards him and hear what he has to say for himself and about you.

[hoopsguy]

Have a general question for the folks of this fair city - is there any reason to suspect that someone in our company may not have one of the listed professions?

I seem to have a distant memory of being accused of representing myself in a false light in times past, and I would hate to be guilty of casting similar aspersions towards others in the here and now if they would like to comment on this matter sooner rather than later.

[Tyrith]

The role post says there might be roles in the game not on the list. I have no reason to suspect this isn't true.

[Blade6119]

Blade6119, let's make sure we are talking the same language here. Someone clearing you at this point in the game seems a bit unlikely to me without you holding certain special privleges that I don't expect folks would be talking about right here and now. That is why I consider the clearing aspects of your story to be on the dubious side at the moment.

Now, as you have gone forward and named DaddyTorgo to be the "clearer" I will certainly be fair minded towards him and hear what he has to say for himself and about you.

Im currently working under the assumption, which may be right or wrong, that the mafia arent starting out with professions(besides the mafia boss). I could be wrong, but i dont think the role i possess would be one the mafia would hold based on how alan described them. Maybe they do have professions, but im working under the profession they dont have any yet and will gain them through the underground.

Remember, we have good, evil, and nuetral players...there are people out there who dont care who wins, just that their individual conditions are met. Thats why even more so then usual im watching everyone...even if they may not be a wolf, they may not want a villager victory.

So me using my profession, one that did no harm to DT and he should be able to confirm that, to me would help him clear me. I might be wrong, as i will no doubt find out when he replies.

I will be dead soon, since this is a daily power....it presents no threat to the wolves that i can tell, but i dont expect them to take any chances with believing me

[Blade6119]

The role post says there might be roles in the game not on the list. I have no reason to suspect this isn't true.

I have 100% reason to suspect roles not listed are in the game

[Jonathan Ezarik]

It wont harm him at all, so ill go ahead and say that DT is the person who can corroborate i targeted him with my action today and i did him no harm. I did not take anything of his, did not attack him, and cant clear him really. I learned one thing about him, which ill hold onto for now, and he knows what i was doing in regards to him. I dont think he can say im good, like i cant of him, but he can confirm i meant him no harm, i did do what i claimed to do, and was interested in something besides himself.

My hope is he believes this role is a villager role, and my early use of it will lead him to trust me. I cant clear him, and what i learned about him is somewhat useless to me at the current time. I hope that changes, but i think today was pretty bad for me. I dont expect to have many successes really, as i know my limit.

I'll be upfront and say that you're confusing the hell out of me. First you say that someone can clear you, but now you're saying that they can't? You can't clear him and he can't clear you?

[Swaggs]

I would be surprised if he had put that disclaimer in without adding a non-described role.

[Alan T]

Alan, i ask again: Is there any way to earn money outside of what your role PM told you?

Yes, there are other ways money might enter the game.

[Blade6119]

I'll be upfront and say that you're confusing the hell out of me. First you say that someone can clear you, but now you're saying that they can't? You can't clear him and he can't clear you?
Ive said he can clear me, which i believe he can. Its up to him how he interprets my visit. Knowing what i know, if i were him it would clear me...but i dont know what alan chose to tell him..i just know hes aware of what i did with him. How he chooses to interpret whatever he was told could have him coming out clearing me, damning me, or nothing at all. He was around after i made my early claims, and made no reference to them negatively so id imagine even if he cant clear me i earned some measure of trust with him.

Basically, im saying i believe he can clear me, and if he cant its still more proof im good then ive seen anyone else present(unless he chooses to say im evil and am lying, which is possible i suppose)

[Swaggs]

Well, I'd like to know if anyone else wants to share who they will be voting for as judge tomorrow.

I think I'll vote for Anxiety.

I think it would be a good idea to get a decent headcount, so we don't get surprised by the anonymous vote.

[hoopsguy]

Going back to Lonestargirl, as I missed her judge claim earlier when I mentioned people putting their hat in the ring.

I remain suspicious of people who would claim that they can clear themselves on Day 1. Blade6119's explanation is that he demonstrated a role on DaddyTorgo - since it was not malicious then he must be pro-city. This in no way, shape, or form relates to Lonestargirl, so any presumed linkage between those two is off the table.

I didn't push Blade6119 to publish his information earlier - in fact, I said that I would view it with suspicion. And I'm not pushing Lonestargirl to reveal her information now; not that I would necessarily believe it anyways ...

Blade6119, do you think there is a chance that Lonestargirl has the same role/profession as you in this game? Based on your comments up to this point, it sounds like your role may be unique. Which I would expect to put you on edge. Am I making bad assumptions here in regards to your role and feelings on Lonestargirl, who you seem to have publicly trusted for most of the day?

[path12]

Have a general question for the folks of this fair city - is there any reason to suspect that someone in our company may not have one of the listed professions?

I seem to have a distant memory of being accused of representing myself in a false light in times past, and I would hate to be guilty of casting similar aspersions towards others in the here and now if they would like to comment on this matter sooner rather than later.

Are you asking if any of the listed roles might not be in the game? I assume that they are plus some that aren't listed.

[Swaggs]

Ive said he can clear me, which i believe he can. Its up to him how he interprets my visit. Knowing what i know, if i were him it would clear me...but i dont know what alan chose to tell him..i just know hes aware of what i did with him. How he chooses to interpret whatever he was told could have him coming out clearing me, damning me, or nothing at all. He was around after i made my early claims, and made no reference to them negatively so id imagine even if he cant clear me i earned some measure of trust with him.

Basically, im saying i believe he can clear me, and if he cant its still more proof im good then ive seen anyone else present(unless he chooses to say im evil and am lying, which is possible i suppose)

If you can do something useful, what was the motivation of outing yourself on day one? I generally don't think you are a wolf, as I don't think a wolf would want to be the first to nominate themselves for judge (although it would be an interesting play for an experienced wolf), but I don't see any benefit to your action today. If you have a useful ability, I don't see why you would telegraph it so soon. If you thought it would clear you, I think it is early but could understand, but you are saying that DT can't really clear you, but he should because it makes sense for him to clear you based on your action.

Also, I respect your "I'll be dead soon..." attitude, but anyone that doesn't feel that way is probably a wolf that knows that he has the (wolf) numbers to survive a vote for a few days, so there is little use using that as a justification on day 1. Everyone feels like they could die soon.

[Blade6119]

Going back to Lonestargirl, as I missed her judge claim earlier when I mentioned people putting their hat in the ring.

I remain suspicious of people who would claim that they can clear themselves on Day 1. Blade6119's explanation is that he demonstrated a role on DaddyTorgo - since it was not malicious then he must be pro-city. This in no way, shape, or form relates to Lonestargirl, so any presumed linkage between those two is off the table.

I didn't push Blade6119 to publish his information earlier - in fact, I said that I would view it with suspicion. And I'm not pushing Lonestargirl to reveal her information now; not that I would necessarily believe it anyways ...

Blade6119, do you think there is a chance that Lonestargirl has the same role/profession as you in this game? Based on your comments up to this point, it sounds like your role may be unique. Which I would expect to put you on edge. Am I making bad assumptions here in regards to your role and feelings on Lonestargirl, who you seem to have publicly trusted for most of the day?
I was of the opinion my role was unique, mostly due to alan saying i was "the blank," not "a blank."

I did get the impression that what my role's personal victory condition is in regards to may not be unique.

I am well aware my team victory condition is not unique.

So no, i dont believe we have the same role...i dont trust her, not at all. I tend to trust DT and thats it, besides myself.

[Blade6119]

If you can do something useful, what was the motivation of outing yourself on day one? I generally don't think you are a wolf, as I don't think a wolf would want to be the first to nominate themselves for judge (although it would be an interesting play for an experienced wolf), but I don't see any benefit to your action today. If you have a useful ability, I don't see why you would telegraph it so soon. If you thought it would clear you, I think it is early but could understand, but you are saying that DT can't really clear you, but he should because it makes sense for him to clear you based on your action.

Also, I respect your "I'll be dead soon..." attitude, but anyone that doesn't feel that way is probably a wolf that knows that he has the (wolf) numbers to survive a vote for a few days, so there is little use using that as a justification on day 1. Everyone feels like they could die soon.

My role is of no use to anyone but myself and my personal victory conditions from what i understand of it. Or at least it was designed to be...ive taken the side feature, that of the person knowing what i did with them, and have tried to find any way to build a COT.

I am not important swaggs, and if they target me then it is a victory for the villagers in the sense good roles will live on. My role is of no threat to the wolves, so me telegraphing my role has both created doubt for the wolves and given you villagers information. I have no illusion that my role is important enough to try and keep secret. If anything, im worried how people react when i show up and deal with them in coming days if i didnt reveal this now

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Ive said he can clear me, which i believe he can.

That's not what you said.

I dont think he can say im good, like i cant of him, but he can confirm i meant him no harm, i did do what i claimed to do, and was interested in something besides himself.

You can't clear him and he can't clear you. He can confirm that you didn't attack him, but that's all. That doesn't clear you as a good guy.

[Blade6119]

That's not what you said.



You can't clear him and he can't clear you. He can confirm that you didn't attack him, but that's all. That doesn't clear you as a good guy.

If i was evil, my action(specifically what i was after) would have ended very differently. I cant clear him, i just learned about what he had in the area i was looking at...if he sees things the way i do, he can clear me. If he doesnt, he cant.

What i was after was something a bad guy would react differently to, and we shall see how alan conveyed that message to DT

[hoopsguy]

Blade6119 Post #182, 9:02PM CST:
id vote either LSG or i judge because we can prove our goodness(well, someone else can corroborate my story at least).

Blade6119 Post #245 10:54PM CST:
So no, i dont believe we [Blade6119 and Lonestargirl] have the same role...i dont trust her, not at all. I tend to trust DT and thats it, besides myself.

OK, so here is what I'm trying to put together. Two hours earlier LSG is the other one you would vote Sheriff because she stated that she could "prove her goodness". However, you also believe that your role is unique and now do not trust her.

So, were you lying then (you would vote for her as judge) or are you lying now (you don't trust her)? Because I am pretty sure that I won't be voting for someone I don't trust and least a little more than the average bear.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

If i was evil, my action(specifically what i was after) would have ended very differently. I cant clear him, i just learned about what he had in the area i was looking at...if he sees things the way i do, he can clear me. If he doesnt, he cant.

What i was after was something a bad guy would react differently to, and we shall see how alan conveyed that message to DT

Here's the problem I have with all of this. You claimed that someone could clear you, and you made it sound like there was no doubt about it. But now you're saying you don't know what DT was told or how he'll interpret what happened. To me, those two statements are worlds apart, and it causes me to question everything you've said.