POL: February Console sales numbers [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

SackAttack

03-16-2007, 03:42 AM

Blade, the problem I see is that the people who are buying PS2's at this point in the game are generally part of three groups:

1) Getting while the getting's good. These are people who see the writing on the wall for the PS2 format with three 'next-gen' competitors for shelf space hitting their stride. They've waited out the PS2, and they know that there isn't going to be any better time than now to pick up the system and such games as they've been ogling while both are still reasonably available.

These people will be PS3 owners eventually, but we may be talking about five years from now before the market adjusts to the point that they're willing to dip a toe in. I mean, they waited the PS3 down from $299 to $129.

2) Young families with at least one child of video-gaming age who has finally, successfully nagged the parent(s) into getting something...but not one of the more expensive machines. Still, win's a win. These are likely not early adopters, or even mid-term adopters.

3) Folks who want a PS3, don't see anything immediately appealing about the system, but DO want to play particularly inviting PS2 new releases. God of War II, possibly. It's not that this group isn't willing to buy a PS3 and to do so with some immediacy, but they need a justification. "Better games will come out eventually" isn't a justification when there's a $129 machine that will play all the games that they're interested in right now. By the time the PS3 can justify itself to this group, the price may have come down, and they may save money in the long term - if they can wait the price down to $449, they win.

That's not the entire demographic. Some are folks replacing PS2's that have given out.

Some are purchases to supplement broken homes. It sounds callous as all hell to say this, but there are some parents who think that material goods are the way to win and/or maintain their children's affection when a divorce is in the picture. Johnny has a PS2 at Mommy's house, so Daddy has to buy one too so Johnny can still play games. Can't let Johnny think Daddy is a cheapskate.

Some are purchases because one specific game that REALLY interests John Doe finally came out. There are a thousand minor reasons why, but I think groups #1-3 are the most prevalent among current PS2 purchasers.

Will those sales numbers eventually translate over to PS3? Maybe so. I certainly won't rule it out completely, but what you have to remember is that the market is not static. The specific people buying PS2's right now may buy PS3's later for compatibility purposes, once the market outlook changes enough to suit them.

But the core demographic factors (such as the young-families-finally-buying bit) don't change, and as a rule, price is going to be important to them. I mean, look - they're buying a $129 PS2 over a $299 Xbox 360 Core. I'm not going to include the Wii in that calculation, because honestly, you have to be able to find one before it becomes a serious factor.

There might be a half-dozen reasons why, but they ultimately come down to one thing - cost. There are more games...which means there are more cheap games. The system is a minimum of $170 less expensive to begin with. Accessories are less expensive.

Cost doesn't mean nearly as much to the early-adopter demographic, but it will absolutely be important in the PS3's transition to the mass market, and that's where they're really in a hole.

They're facing down a $400 and a $249 competitor, and whatever you want to say about hidden costs - Blu-ray vs HD-DVD, say - the mass market is not going to be all that influenced by those arguments. Sony is going to get their sales, but I don't think it's at all a foregone conclusion that current PS2 sales are going to ultimately translate into future PS3 sold units. There's just too much distance between current price points and where they have to be to reach a mass market for that to be anywhere near a slam dunk.

I'm not predicting doom and gloom. I think the PS3 will ultimately do well. I just think that at $599, it is incredibly hard to accurately predict anything the platform's future holds. Microsoft and Nintendo are not lightweight competition. The former is very good at adaptation and assimilation, and the latter is practically synonymous with the industry.

The PS3 will sell its units, but predicting domination for the platform based on the combined sales of PS2 and PS3 probably needs some foundational work.

stevew

03-16-2007, 05:35 AM

I think that replacement of a previous broken ps2 is a higher factor than some of those others.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 07:16 AM

I like Bill and talk to him pretty frequently. He's a very bright guy, but I generally disagree with most of his assertions regarding the consoles. One thing to note would be that those numbers are North American numbers. There's a couple of games in Japan and a launch in Europe that are going to dramatically shift the overall sales numbers for the consoles. While it's fine to argue in the short term that the PS3 is selling slowly in North America alone, the PS3 worldwide is selling faster than the PS2 or 360 did at the same period in time overall.

Also, I don't buy his assertion that the Wii is going to win 'the next gen war'. It's a good console and has a innovative control system, but it's not a next-gen system. That's not a comment to downplay the impact that the system has had. Also, I'd rather be Nintendo's CEO than Sony's PS3 or MS's 360 CEO. Nintendo is making an unbelievable amount of profit. But for the most part, it's a slightly upgraded last-gen system with a new control scheme. Also, the third-party developers on the system have been voicing concerns that the Wii users aren't buying Wii software that isn't a Nintendo brand. That's going to hinder the flow of innovative third party games to the Wii. We're seeing that already in a lot of third party titles. They're just porting PS2 games over and tacking on what is often a badly created Wii control scheme to make it look like something different.

Coder

03-16-2007, 07:44 AM

Draft Dodger

03-16-2007, 07:44 AM

1) Getting while the getting's good. These are people who see the writing on the wall for the PS2 format with three 'next-gen' competitors for shelf space hitting their stride. They've waited out the PS2, and they know that there isn't going to be any better time than now to pick up the system and such games as they've been ogling while both are still reasonably available.

These people will be PS3 owners eventually, but we may be talking about five years from now before the market adjusts to the point that they're willing to dip a toe in. I mean, they waited the PS3 down from $299 to $129.

that's me, right there. we just got a PS2 this Christmas. PS3 isn't even on our radar right now. As of today, or next purchase would probably be a Wii, and that's not likely to happen soon either. Maybe all this will change as our 5-year old starts seeing other consoles at friends' houses, but, for now, console envy has not hit anyone in the household.

Icy

03-16-2007, 07:49 AM

While I agree that the Japanese sales are probably what's going to keep PS3 in the market, I wouldn't be so sure that European sales will be any higher percentage-wise than the US-sales.

The Euro-pricetag will be about $100 more expensive than the US price and $250 more than the Japanese price. The "cheapest" PS3 you can pre-order in Sweden is at about $825 (60Gb HD version). No games, no HDMI-cable etc

There's a bundle available with 3 games from Play.com priced at €813, which is almost $1100.

Sony are pricing themselves out of the market where 360 and Wii are dominating.

Agree but at least in Spain the PS3 is higly expected, i frecuent Spanish console forums and you can't believe all the hype there, plus all the major consoles shops have sold all their PS3, being impossible right now to preoder a PS3. Some freaks have even bought them from Japan as the games are region free in the PS3 so they will have only problems with the Blue-Ray movies (that are region encoded). In the other hand, it's not hard to find a 360 or Wii here in any store.

The Ps3 is so expensive, and the PS2 will keep overselling it in Spain, but the Ps3 is going to be a top seller here soon.

Subby

03-16-2007, 07:52 AM

After seeing the Tiger Woods Wii commercials I am almost completely sold on that being our first console purchase...

Coder

03-16-2007, 07:52 AM

all the major consoles shops have sold all their PS3, being impossible right now to preoder a PS3. Some freaks have even bought them from Japan as the games are region free in the PS3 so they will have only problems with the Blue-Ray movies (that are region encoded). In the other hand, it's not hard to find a 360 or Wii here in any store.

Interesting.. here you can't find a Wii, but if you pre-order a PS3 you're guaranteed one at release (according to Webhallen.se)

TroyF

03-16-2007, 08:09 AM

1) The Wii will have a bigger base of installed hardware than the 360 or the PS3 by the middle of next year at the latest. They may catch the 360 by the end of the year. There is no question at this point that the Wii will have the largest base of the three next gen systems.

2) The PS3 is nearing the point of disaster RIGHT NOW. The 360 outsold it by 100k units last month. The base is already high and is only getting higher. You can't find a Wii anywhere. It looks like it's going to be another two or three months before the Wii has any noticeable slowdown at all.

3) Lets face it, the issues impacting Sony right now aren't changing. The Wii is the console the kiddies and families want. It's the console of the semi serious gamer who wants to hae some fun.

Meanwhile, the two biggest factors destroying Sony vs. the Xbox 360 aren't going away. The price point and the quality games. The 360 pounds Sony on both fronts and it's not going to suddenly stop over the coming months. As Bill said in his post, just look at the A+ titles headed for the 360 in the next few months.

Now look at the PS3 titles. Forza, Guitar Hero 2 (wiping out another key Sony exclusive) and Mass Effect vs. MLB: The Show in the next few months. I love The Show, but are you telling me that's going to be a system seller like any of the other three up there?

The worst thing for Sony to do right now is pretend this is going to go away or start thinking worldwide right now. The launch has been a disaster. They have a ton of expensive systems on the shelf and there is little positive buzz for the system. (outside of a handfull of people on this site it seems)

As for the price point, everyone saying it wasn't that big of a deal looks foolish now. Clearly, the price point is having an impact and a big one. It's also not going away. Microsoft has to be thrilled that they haven't had to lower the price point to compete with the PS3. When Sony does, MS can follow suit and still keep the pressure on.

This console "war" is pretty much over for this generation IMHO. Sony is behind in every front and you have to realize these things aren't just impacting this launch. MS now has a year+ head start on them for the next war. While Sony was figuring out PS3 issues in their delay the pas year, the 360 team has a jump on development.

I predicted early Sony was going to be in trouble with the price point and lack of A+ titles coming out right away. Yet I didn't even think the carnage would be this bad. They are getting destroyed in every phase of the game.

Eaglesfan27

03-16-2007, 08:25 AM

I agree with all of Troy's points. I think the 800 dollar price point launch in Europe is going to hurt Sony quite a bit and isn't going to bolster that front. Japan is the only market that I can see Sony winning, but I don't think that will be enough to win them the overall market.

I also agree with Sackattack's points. I know a lot of families that are in a lower socioeconomic bracket who are just finally getting a PS2 but have no intention of getting a PS3 ever (unless it somehow drops down to that under 200 dollar price point at some point in the distant future.)

Also, with God of War 2 and a few other games out that I eventually want to play when I have time, I would replace my PS2 with a new one today if it broke. I think the replacement contingent is also a significant portion of sales.

Eaglesfan27

03-16-2007, 08:27 AM

After seeing the Tiger Woods Wii commercials I am almost completely sold on that being our first console purchase...

That is a great commercial and we might pull the trigger on a Wii soon, particularly if that game gets good reviews.

bronconick

03-16-2007, 08:44 AM

Still playing the PS2 here.

Hell, the thing is that there's GOW II coming out, and on top of the games I have, there are 10-12 PS2 games that have been out for some time that I just haven't picked up. (Xenosaga 3, for instance) Assuming the system doesn't break (or I replace it) I could probably wring another 3 or 4 years out of it, especially since my video game time has decreased in the last couple years.
The only thing I'm losing out on is the most recent sports games, but that's not worth $400 or $600 to me at this point in time. Sony did such a good job with the PS2 and it's library that I haven't had an urge to upgrade yet, more then a year into the next generation.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 08:45 AM

While I agree that the Japanese sales are probably what's going to keep PS3 in the market, I wouldn't be so sure that European sales will be any higher percentage-wise than the US-sales.

The Euro-pricetag will be about $100 more expensive than the US price and $250 more than the Japanese price. The "cheapest" PS3 you can pre-order in Sweden is at about $825 (60Gb HD version). No games, no HDMI-cable etc

There's a bundle available with 3 games from Play.com priced at €813, which is almost $1100.

Sony are pricing themselves out of the market where 360 and Wii are dominating.

Despite that, nearly all of the 1M PS3's are already sold in Europe for the launch. The only caviat is that there will be some that aren't sold because of ridiculous bundle deals, but that happens everywhere. Europe is a big market for Sony because of the region-free software. While Japan and the US get most of the software, Europe is left out of a lot of titles. European players can now get those games that they've been missing out on and that's a big selling point.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 08:47 AM

That is a great commercial and we might pull the trigger on a Wii soon, particularly if that game gets good reviews.

How quickly the tribulations of buying an EA game are forgotten......:)

oykib

03-16-2007, 09:06 AM

. Japan is the only market that I can see Sony winning, but I don't think that will be enough to win them the overall market.

Actually, it's the same story here as it is back home. The Wii can't be had for love or money. But there are PS3s available in every store. The only real difference is the prejudice against Microsoft.

Coder

03-16-2007, 09:17 AM

Europe is a big market for Sony because of the region-free software. While Japan and the US get most of the software, Europe is left out of a lot of titles.

It was too expensive to include backwards compatibility on the European version, so they're using cheaper hardware and abandoning backwards compatibility (i.e. no PS2 games on your PS3).. Games are already being announced as only working with PAL, so I'm worrying that not only did they drop the backwards-stuff, they're also dropping the region-free ability.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 09:20 AM

Actually, it's the same story here as it is back home. The Wii can't be had for love or money. But there are PS3s available in every store. The only real difference is the prejudice against Microsoft.

Japan is a society that waits for the big games to make a console purchase. They had a PS3 sales boost recently when a mech game came out. They'll likely see the bigger boost when games like FF, KH and MGS come out late this year and early next year. Until then, those sales numbers will likely remain static.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 09:23 AM

It was too expensive to include backwards compatibility on the European version, so they're using cheaper hardware and abandoning backwards compatibility (i.e. no PS2 games on your PS3).. Games are already being announced as only working with PAL, so I'm worrying that not only did they drop the backwards-stuff, they're also dropping the region-free ability.

That's totally inaccurate. All PS1 games are playable on the European PS3. Over 1,000 PS2 games are playable on the European PS3 and more will be added as time moves along via firmware updates. The early reports that the European PS3 didn't play PS2 games was based on feedback from people that were given pre-release European PS3's to try out. No backwards compatibility firmware was on those systems, hence the reason they wouldn't play PS2 games. The firmware update will be available on launch.

All PS3's are region-free. Nothing has changed with the European version of the PS3.

Coder

03-16-2007, 09:31 AM

That's totally inaccurate. All PS1 games are playable on the PS3. Over 1,000 PS2 games are playable on the PS2 and more will be added as time moves along via firmware updates. The early reports that the European PS3 didn't play PS2 games was based on feedback from people that were given pre-release European PS3's to try out. No backwards compatibility firmware was on those systems, hence the reason they wouldn't play PS2 games. The firmware update will be available on launch.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070223-8912.html

In a statement released today, Sony said that the European systems will utilize "a new hardware specification," and Sony won't "concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility." Rather, they are "increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3, truly taking advantage of this exciting technology." What does this mean in plain English? Sony is looking to decrease the production cost of the Playstation 3, and they have opted to replace dedicated hardware with software that will replace its functionality. The hardware had been providing full backwards compatibility of PS2 games, but Sony makes it clear that the new configuration will not offer the same level of support. "Certain PlayStation 2 format software titles may not perform properly on this system," the statement reads.

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2184077/euro-ps3-plays-fewer-ps2-games

The electronics firm said that PS3 consoles built for the European market are slightly different to those in other regions because they use software to carry out some of the functions of the dedicated chips.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 09:42 AM

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070223-8912.html

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2184077/euro-ps3-plays-fewer-ps2-games

As I mentioned, totally inaccurate. Those were reactionary articles after the rumors flew. Also, note that the PS3's in North America and Japan will have the same setup (i.e. no Emotion chip) starting in April. Here's the info straight from Harrison's mouth in response to the above rumors that you cited.

http://ps3.qj.net/PS3-Backwards-compatibility-1-000-reasons-not-to-worry/pg/49/aid/84567

PS3 Backwards compatibility: 1,000 reasons not to worry
Posted Mar 01, 2007 at 04:38AM by Glen D.

Sony's president for worldwide studios, has some good news for the Sony gaming community to ease the tension regarding the PlayStation 3's backwards compatibility.

The president says that come the March 23 release of the PS3 in Europe, Australia, Africa and the Middle East, the console will be able to host a thousand games from the PS2.

"The situation is changing everyday," says Harrison. "But on March 23, we expect the list to include over 1000 PS2 titles."

News broke out earlier that the PS2's emotion engine would be taken out of PS3 Euro in lieu of more formidable hardware which will beef up the next-generation experience that the console delivers.

Sony has also announced that a software solution to the hardware issue is forthcoming, saying that software emulation will be the means by which PS2 classics can bridge the gap between the old and the new systems.

Harrison promised the game community that the company is exerting effort to provide better means to preserve backwards compatibility. he says "We're working to introduce a resource to the Web to detail which titles will have backwards compatibility. and as we make firmware upgrades, we will be able to add to that list."

Here's hoping that more titles will be supported by the plan.

Coder

03-16-2007, 09:48 AM

14ers

03-16-2007, 10:02 AM

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 10:08 AM

I'm willing to concede, but the information I've quoted has reached European consumers and despite the interview you cite, potential buyers are increasing a negative opinion of Sony.. one bad news item can harm more than ten positive ones can "fix".

This seems to be the biggest beef against the PS3........rumors that end up being 'fact'. I would say that Sony has not handled some of these rumors very well, but the only real beef against the PS3 is that it costs too much (game supply was a problem, but a big batch of games is now coming over the next few months). The quality of the system itself has never been an issue.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 10:13 AM

Before you read the last rights to Sony, remember that Sony's Blu-Ray format is dominating the HD market right now. If Microsoft takes a hard line by not upgrading it's HD player to Blu-Ray, I wonder what will happen.

Could their be an XBOX360 with a built in Blu-ray player?

It's a valid point. Blu-ray movies are now outselling HD-DVD movies. A couple of articles yesterday suggested that Microsoft may abandon the HD-DVD format by early next year and use it strictly for game on the 360. Also, BR players are supposed to be at a $300 price point by the holiday season, which would actually make next-gen DVD's an affordable option to the market.

Icy

03-16-2007, 10:31 AM

I'll end buying a PS3 mainly because i want ot play USA games, but i must admit i like the 360 way more. What i hate from Sony PS3's politics is that they not only want you to buy their console but also their Blue-Ray thing and an HDMI TV. I want a console to play games, exclusively, so i hate to overpay because it can be used as media center and to play Blue-Ray movies that i have zero interest on. Also you can play your 360 in any computer monitor on high resolution, while Sony is not releasing an VGA cable with it, so you need to also buy an HD TV or a third party hardware converter to enjoy the high resolution games.

Will i buy a PS3? yes
Only reason? to play USA sports games
Do I care about blue-ray? No, i would like it removed and the console to be half price.
Will i buy it in launch? doubt it

Microsoft screwed themselves with the region code lock, else i wouldn't find any reason to buy a PS3 over it.

stevew

03-16-2007, 10:34 AM

Eaglesfan27

03-16-2007, 10:37 AM

How quickly the tribulations of buying an EA game are forgotten......:)

I've always liked their golf game, and having been a weekend golfer in my younger days, the Wii remote with a real golf type swing is very appealing. Heck, I've said I'll probably buy the College Football game this year on the 360 as well. I just won't buy Madden without tons of reviews that list a major improvement. Nor will I buy Live or the College game as I haven't for several years and I see the 2k versions being much better.

Icy

03-16-2007, 10:38 AM

Just a thought, but I think you can run an hdmi->DVI cable into a monitor. And then run an rca or fiber optic sound cable into your receiver/surround sound.

For what i have been reading, only if the monitor's DVI imput supports HDCP that only new ones do.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 10:58 AM

What i hate from Sony PS3's politics is that they not only want you to buy their console but also their Blue-Ray thing and an HDMI TV.

I have both a HDMI and component hook-up on my PS3. You'd be hard pressed to see the difference unless you have a very sharp picture over 60". I actually have a 65" TV and see very little difference between the two inputs. It's like the difference between great and excellent. I wouldn't bother with HDMI unless you're just one of those people that HAS to have nothing but the best, no matter how small the increase in quality.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 11:02 AM

[QUOTE=Eaglesfan27;1420317]I've always liked their golf game, and having been a weekend golfer in my younger days, the Wii remote with a real golf type swing is very appealing.QUOTE]

Herein lies the problem. If they truly go with a swing that uses a realistic motion, there's going to be a lot of very frustrated gamers that look just like you and I on a real golf course. They won't do that. So you'll end up with a dumbed-down version of the swing that really doesn't affect the ball flight all that much. You know that it's going to be the same game as what you got on the PS2/Xbox, so that swing addition better be awfully good and improve the game significantly.

I do agree that the commercial is very well done.

TroyF

03-16-2007, 11:12 AM

Two quick points:

1) God of War II is a perfect example of complete and utter Sony failure. it would have been a system seller had it been a PS3 exclusive. Hell, I'd likely have eventually purchased a PS3 strictly for that game. Instead I spent 50 bucks. The complete lack of planning and forethought is what is slaughtering them.

2) The Blu-Ray issue. Sony is banking on me spending a ton of money for Blu-Ray. A GAMING systems success is being driven by a DVD platform. I mean, that's nice and all, but ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME?

I'm happy with my current DVD player. It's going to be awhile before I decide to upgrade. When I do upgrade, I'll probably buy a stand alone Blu-Ray player. I know, I know. . . I can't buy a stand alone Blu Ray player right now for the same price Sony does, right? I wonder if that's going to be true in a year or two when I actually decide to upgrade?

I realize I'm speaking for myself here, but it's my opinion that the #1 reason people buy gaming consoles is to play games. I know, shocking, huh? By the time the GAMES catch up to the 360 or Wii (and I'm not conceding that'll ever happen), stand alone Blu-Ray players will be a lot cheaper and people will still be buying the Ps3 because of the GAMES they want to play on it, not the ability to watch RV in Blu-Ray.

Maybe I'm wrong there, I dunno. Maybe Bill Harris is too. But I think there is a lot more evidence to support our side now than the people who think Sony is going to be able to save themselves from this disaster.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 11:23 AM

1) God of War II is a perfect example of complete and utter Sony failure. it would have been a system seller had it been a PS3 exclusive. Hell, I'd likely have eventually purchased a PS3 strictly for that game. Instead I spent 50 bucks. The complete lack of planning and forethought is what is slaughtering them.

2) The Blu-Ray issue. Sony is banking on me spending a ton of money for Blu-Ray. A GAMING systems success is being driven by a DVD platform. I mean, that's nice and all, but ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME?

I'm happy with my current DVD player. It's going to be awhile before I decide to upgrade. When I do upgrade, I'll probably buy a stand alone Blu-Ray player. I know, I know. . . I can't buy a stand alone Blu Ray player right now for the same price Sony does, right? I wonder if that's going to be true in a year or two when I actually decide to upgrade?

Couple of points related to your comments......

1) Games like GOW II (and most other backwards compatible PS2 games) will be upconverted on PS3 in 720p/1080i in the next few months (this will be in a firmware update and is made possible by the change to software emulation). Certainly that's not a selling point necessarily if you don't have a PS3, but for owners of the system, that makes games like GOW II a good purchase because you're going to have better quality visuals than you would have on a PS2 and a brand new game to play.

2) You will be able to get a BR player in the next few months pretty cheap. It's been reported in numerous places that stand-alone Blu-ray players will be at a $300 price point by summer and even a bit lower than that by the holiday season. Also, if you're patient, there's plenty of ways to get Blu-ray releases for $20 on the internet. Amazon.com just had a big half-off sale on a bunch of BR titles. I snagged a few at that price.

14ers

03-16-2007, 11:27 AM

I'm happy with my current DVD player. It's going to be awhile before I decide to upgrade. When I do upgrade, I'll probably buy a stand alone Blu-Ray player. I know, I know. . . I can't buy a stand alone Blu Ray player right now for the same price Sony does, right? I wonder if that's going to be true in a year or two when I actually decide to upgrade?

Are you saying that you do not currently own a High Definition TV?

Sorry, but one of the main reasons I bought my PS3 was so I could watch High Definition DVDs. I sold myself on the PS3, because it was a Blu-ray Player with a free gaming system already built in. I would not of purchased the PS3 if it did not include the Blu-ray.

Blu-ray Rocky Balboa for $28.98
http://www.deepdiscount.com/viewproduct.htm?productId=9093619&src1=voltage&extid=df00029

Icy

03-16-2007, 11:29 AM

2) The Blu-Ray issue. Sony is banking on me spending a ton of money for Blu-Ray. A GAMING systems success is being driven by a DVD platform. I mean, that's nice and all, but ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME?

I'm happy with my current DVD player. It's going to be awhile before I decide to upgrade. When I do upgrade, I'll probably buy a stand alone Blu-Ray player. I know, I know. . . I can't buy a stand alone Blu Ray player right now for the same price Sony does, right? I wonder if that's going to be true in a year or two when I actually decide to upgrade?

I realize I'm speaking for myself here, but it's my opinion that the #1 reason people buy gaming consoles is to play games. I know, shocking, huh? By the time the GAMES catch up to the 360 or Wii (and I'm not conceding that'll ever happen), stand alone Blu-Ray players will be a lot cheaper and people will still be buying the Ps3 because of the GAMES they want to play on it, not the ability to watch RV in Blu-Ray.

That is what i said, i don't f**ing care about the Blue Ray in a console. It's like if they charge me $200 extra because it has a built in professional hairdresser. It should be extra as it is in the 360 (the HD-DVD), not the biggest sales point when in fact it's their worst sales point.

Icy

03-16-2007, 11:31 AM

Are you saying that you do not currently own a High Definition TV?

Sorry, but one of the main reasons I bought my PS3 was so I could watch High Definition DVDs. I sold myself on the PS3, because it was a Blu-ray Player with a free gaming system already built in. I would not of purchased the PS3 if it did not include the Blu-ray.

Blu-ray Rocky Balboa for $28.98
http://www.deepdiscount.com/viewproduct.htm?productId=9093619&src1=voltage&extid=df00029

Umm i guess i'll need to eat my words then, you are the first person that bought it because the blue-ray so it probably means there are more like you.

14ers

03-16-2007, 11:35 AM

Umm i guess i'll need to eat my words then, you are the first person that bought it because the blue-ray so it probably means there are more like you.
For me, without the Blu-ray player it would not have made since to upgrade from my PS2.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 11:38 AM

For me, without the Blu-ray player it would not have made since to upgrade from my PS2.

I agree with that. No Blu-ray would have left me waiting to upgrade instead of buying on launch day. I used the PS2 as my primary DVD player as well. Also, Blu-ray DVD's are available for rental, so you certainly don't have to buy every one you watch.

TroyF

03-16-2007, 11:39 AM

Mizzou,

Nice of them to upgrade God of War to the new format. I'm good with the one it is currently on. They COULD have sold a ton of PS3 systems if that was the only way to play the game. Instead it's like a perk for those with a PS3. Not a selling point and stupid.

14ers,

Yes, I have a 51 inch HD TV. But it took me a couple of years to upgrade to HD. It's not a system seller for me at all. The movies I see on my current HD player are fine. I'll upgrade at some point.

I think you are the oddball here. (usually a role I fill to perfection) You bought the PS3 because of the Blu Ray. I think a majority of people buy a console because they want to game on it and ALL other factors are secondary to that singular goal. Have fun while playing games.

If the games gap between the PS3, 360 and Wii are close, then the Blu Ray becomes a factor. Instead what you have is the Wii with an innovative way to play games and the 360 with a solid, deep lineup of games and a lineup of A titles hitting the shelves every month for the rest of the year, many of which are exclusives.

When it comes to games, the PS3 gets its ass kicked here. And I believe games are what sell gaming systems. I know I've made the point, but you asked a direct question, and I wanted to answer it.

14ers

03-16-2007, 11:45 AM

I think you are the oddball here. (usually a role I fill to perfection) You bought the PS3 because of the Blu Ray. I think a majority of people buy a console because they want to game on it and ALL other factors are secondary to that singular goal. Have fun while playing games.

I wouldn't say exactly that. I would say, That I bought the PS3 EARLIER because of the Blu-ray.

It also helps me that Net Flix carries Blu-ray movies.

stevew

03-16-2007, 11:48 AM

2) You will be able to get a BR player in the next few months pretty cheap. It's been reported in numerous places that stand-alone Blu-ray players will be at a $300 price point by summer and even a bit lower than that by the holiday season. Also, if you're patient, there's plenty of ways to get Blu-ray releases for $20 on the internet. Amazon.com just had a big half-off sale on a bunch of BR titles. I snagged a few at that price.

The cheapest name brand type one out right now is the Samsung, I think, and it's like 800 bucks. The sony one sells for 999 still. They may drop that quickly, but it needs to start right now. I guess the samsung is available for 699 now, on sale(and probably just a permanent price cut anyways).

Is that 300 for a decent one, or 300 for an AKAI-type Funai POS? And it is that supposed to be 300 at the retail level or 300 at the internets deep discounts.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 11:57 AM

If the games gap between the PS3, 360 and Wii are close, then the Blu Ray becomes a factor. Instead what you have is the Wii with an innovative way to play games and the 360 with a solid, deep lineup of games and a lineup of A titles hitting the shelves every month for the rest of the year, many of which are exclusives.

When it comes to games, the PS3 gets its ass kicked here. And I believe games are what sell gaming systems. I know I've made the point, but you asked a direct question, and I wanted to answer it.

There are good PS3 games as well and the list of exclusives improves quite a bit over the next couple of months. A brief list of coming soon or already here (there's more obviously, but I'm pulling off the top of my head).......

Lair
Motorstorm
F1 Championship Racing
MLB 07 - The Show
Warhawk
Resistance
FF series
MGS series
Kingdom Hearts series

I'm guessing you didn't go out to actually put together the lists and compare them before coming to the conclusion 'the PS3 gets its ass kicked here'. There's plenty of fun games to go around on both systems. Just because you don't like the PS3 exclusives and are a big 360 fan doesn't mean there aren't good games to be played on the system.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 12:08 PM

The cheapest name brand type one out right now is the Samsung, I think, and it's like 800 bucks. The sony one sells for 999 still. They may drop that quickly, but it needs to start right now. I guess the samsung is available for 699 now, on sale(and probably just a permanent price cut anyways).

Is that 300 for a decent one, or 300 for an AKAI-type Funai POS? And it is that supposed to be 300 at the retail level or 300 at the internets deep discounts.

I found one of the article where a Sony rep made the price comment (2nd page of the article). I misquoted it and need to correct myself. This one says $300 retail at the end of the year and $600 retail by this summer. My previous post was about 6 months premature. But still, a Blu-ray stand-alone should be affordable by the end of the year for those not wanting a PS3 for their BR player.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03082007/entertainment/blu_ray_ascending_entertainment_lou_lumenick.htm?page=1

Eaglesfan27

03-16-2007, 12:15 PM

[quote=Eaglesfan27;1420317]I've always liked their golf game, and having been a weekend golfer in my younger days, the Wii remote with a real golf type swing is very appealing.QUOTE]

Herein lies the problem. If they truly go with a swing that uses a realistic motion, there's going to be a lot of very frustrated gamers that look just like you and I on a real golf course. They won't do that. So you'll end up with a dumbed-down version of the swing that really doesn't affect the ball flight all that much. You know that it's going to be the same game as what you got on the PS2/Xbox, so that swing addition better be awfully good and improve the game significantly.

I do agree that the commercial is very well done.

Probably true and if the case, it won't be a deciding factor for me on the Wii. However, we are already leaning towards a Wii due to my wife's desire to have one for when we have friends over or are hosting casual parties.

14ers

03-16-2007, 12:19 PM

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03082007/entertainment/blu_ray_ascending_entertainment_lou_lumenick.htm?page=1
Alison Casey, who analyzes consumer trends for London-based Understanding & Solutions, predicts that retailers will pull the plug on HD DVD sometime next year.

Does a 360 need a HD Player for its games? I know it is available as an option now, so will microsoft be able to change fromats by next year? Are there currently any games that require the HD-DVD player?

TroyF

03-16-2007, 12:25 PM

There are good PS3 games as well and the list of exclusives improves quite a bit over the next couple of months. A brief list of coming soon or already here (there's more obviously, but I'm pulling off the top of my head).......

Lair
Motorstorm
F1 Championship Racing
MLB 07 - The Show
Warhawk
Resistance
FF series
MGS series
Kingdom Hearts series

I'm guessing you didn't go out to actually put together the lists and compare them before coming to the conclusion 'the PS3 gets its ass kicked here'. There's plenty of fun games to go around on both systems. Just because you don't like the PS3 exclusives and are a big 360 fan doesn't mean there aren't good games to be played on the system.

I also didn't list a lot of games for the 360. I listed the biggies. Resistance is a nice effort, but it's been out from the beginning and is obviously not selling the system. Motorstorm is out and is getting decent reviews, but isn't a system seller either. Ditto for F1. (though that may be a bigger hit overseas)

I'm not aware of a new Kingdom Hearts coming out anytimes soon and I thought the first FF for the PS3 was delayed from a June release date. Lair looks interesting, but is it going to be a system seller? And is that lineup of games even in the ballpark with what the 360 already has out there?

Pretty obvious answer IMHO. It isn't close. They are getting their asses handed to them when it comes to the games now. A game like God of war II as an exclusive on the PS3 could have been a major advantage. They blew it.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 12:25 PM

Does a 360 need a HD Player for its games? I know it is available as an option now, so will microsoft be able to change fromats by next year? Are there currently any games that require the HD-DVD player?

No, the HD-DVD movie part is a totally different piece of the system. The games will still use the HD-DVD discs, but the HD-DVD player is not needed to play those games, just the system itself.

TroyF

03-16-2007, 12:28 PM

Does a 360 need a HD Player for its games? I know it is available as an option now, so will microsoft be able to change fromats by next year? Are there currently any games that require the HD-DVD player?

No, the HD drive is purely optional and isn't even sold with the core system.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 12:29 PM

Pretty obvious answer IMHO. It isn't close. They are getting their asses handed to them when it comes to the games now. A game like God of war II as an exclusive on the PS3 could have been a major advantage. They blew it.

Like I said, you're relatively bias towards your system. Personally, not many of the 360 exclusive titles excite me, but I'm not oblivious to the fact that people like you may like them. It's far from as cut and dried as you'd like to portray it, but I'm glad you're enjoying your system.

14ers

03-16-2007, 12:33 PM

No, the HD drive is purely optional and isn't even sold with the core system.So, by this time next year it would not be impossible for the 360 to have a Blu-ray player ad-on instead of its current HD-DVD?

BrianD

03-16-2007, 12:35 PM

Like I said, you're relatively bias towards your system.

Does this qualify as UIC?

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 12:37 PM

So, by this time next year it would not be impossible for the 360 to have a Blu-ray player ad-on instead of its current HD-DVD?

That's correct. They could have a BR add-on drive that plugs into the same accessory slot that is now used for the HD-DVD add-on. With that said, we'll have to see how willing MS is to actually make that move and concede defeat instead of just not having a DVD add-on. My guess is that they wouldn't create a BR drive for the 360. It would look bad from a PR perspective. MS should just stick to improving the console and let 360 users who want a BR player buy a stand-alone system.

Coder

03-16-2007, 12:39 PM

This seems to be the biggest beef against the PS3........rumors that end up being 'fact'. I would say that Sony has not handled some of these rumors very well, but the only real beef against the PS3 is that it costs too much (game supply was a problem, but a big batch of games is now coming over the next few months). The quality of the system itself has never been an issue.

Took a while before I was able to reply. However, I feel you need to add something to the sentence "the only real beef against the PS3".. a NOW..

Because the rumours were not only rumours. Sony has made a number of poor decisions and have backpedalled after consumer criticism.

Reading up on the backwards compatibility issue, I found that the articles I quoted were from February 23rd, after Sony had made a statement supporting the original problem I mentioned. Then after the outcry that came, there was a March 3rd press-release saying that they will fix the issue and increase support for backwards compatibility.

Looking back at Sony PR for the PS3 the past few months there have been a number of incidents like this that simply make them look rather dumb.

Like the CEO who said he'd pay anyone $1200 for each PS3 they could find on storeshelves. Of course, finding PS3s on storeshelves wasn't very difficult and viola, Sony executives have made a poopoo further decreasing consumers' opinion of their product.

14ers

03-16-2007, 12:40 PM

That's correct. They could have a BR add-on drive that plugs into the same accessory slot that is now used for the HD-DVD add-on. With that said, we'll have to see how willing MS is to actually make that move and concede defeat instead of just not having a DVD add-on. My guess is that they wouldn't create a BR drive for the 360. It would look bad from a PR perspective. MS should just stick to improving the console and let 360 users who want a BR player buy a stand-alone system.
But, won't there eventually be games that come out that actually need the extra Disc capacity that Blu-ray and HD-DVD offer?

Eaglesfan27

03-16-2007, 12:40 PM

Like I said, you're relatively bias towards your system. Personally, not many of the 360 exclusive titles excite me, but I'm not oblivious to the fact that people like you may like them. It's far from as cut and dried as you'd like to portray it, but I'm glad you're enjoying your system.

I find your bias towards the PS3 much more obvious. There are many more good/great games as scored by any game reviewer site right now out for the 360 than there are for the PS3. When you add that fact with the fact that most game reviewers project MORE 360 hits in the upcoming year, Troy's statements do not seem off base.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 12:41 PM

Does this qualify as UIC?

Translate and I'll tell you. If you're implying that I like my PS3, that's a given. However, I'm perfectly willing to say that the 360 has plenty of good features and has some good games, much like I did with the Wii as well in saying that the control feature was a good idea. My only point is that he's excluding any possibility that people may actually like the games and PS3 because of personal preference because of his bias. The fact that 360 has good games and the PS3 also has some good games are not mutually exclusive facts.

Atocep

03-16-2007, 12:45 PM

Probably true and if the case, it won't be a deciding factor for me on the Wii. However, we are already leaning towards a Wii due to my wife's desire to have one for when we have friends over or are hosting casual parties.

Gamespot has a fairly favorable review up today.

hxxp://www.gamespot.com/wii/sports/tigerwoodspgatour07/review.html?sid=6167350&tag=topslot;title;4&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot

Here's a couple quotes on the controls.

Swinging your "club" is very simple. You hold the Wii Remote with both hands and press and hold the B button when you're ready to swing. The power of your swing is determined by how far back your backswing goes, as well as how hard you swing. You can boost your shot's power (up to 10 percent more) by swinging harder. As it is in real golf, your follow-through is very important. Twisting your wrists to the left or right will add a slice or a fade. You'll find that if you have a propensity toward one or the other in real life, you'll probably have it here as well. If you're struggling to keep your shot on the course, an easier difficulty setting lets you hit the ball straight every time. Adding spin to your shot after you've hit the ball is as easy as pressing a direction on the D pad and wiggling the Wii Remote back and forth.
If you own Tiger Woods 07 on another console, there's little reason to pick it up again on the Wii because there isn't any new content. However, it's certainly the best golf game available for the Wii at this time, and there's plenty here to keep you busy. Tiger Woods 07 does a fine job replicating the feel of actually swinging a golf club, and just as impressive is the fact that the control scheme is accessible to both golfers and nongolfers alike.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 12:49 PM

I find your bias towards the PS3 much more obvious. There are many more good/great games as scored by any game reviewer site right now out for the 360 than there are for the PS3. When you add that fact with the fact that most game reviewers project MORE 360 hits in the upcoming year, Troy's statements do not seem off base.

Projections are just as good as game previews. They hold up until something actually happens and then they generally fall apart in the gaming business. Outside of the mention of the 'ring of death' (which is well documented), I haven't made any negative comments towards the 360. I've only mentioned what I've found as positive with my system. Troy been pretty negative towards the PS3.

My point would be that far too many people make negative comments about consoles they have no experience with. I've played the 360 and have nothing bad to say about my experience. I just prefer the games that are available and coming soon on the PS3 and I love having the Blu-ray player built all into one case. My wife loves it just as much as it limits the amount of hardware and wiring around the television. :)

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 12:53 PM

Gamespot has a fairly favorable review up today.

hxxp://www.gamespot.com/wii/sports/tigerwoodspgatour07/review.html?sid=6167350&tag=topslot;title;4&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot

Here's a couple quotes on the controls.

If you own Tiger Woods 07 on another console, there's little reason to pick it up again on the Wii because there isn't any new content. However, it's certainly the best golf game available for the Wii at this time, and there's plenty here to keep you busy. Tiger Woods 07 does a fine job replicating the feel of actually swinging a golf club, and just as impressive is the fact that the control scheme is accessible to both golfers and nongolfers alike.

Yeah, that's really frustrating. The controls are different, but they didn't change a thing about the game. I really want to get a Wii at some point, but as long as there are nothing but tons of PS2/Xbox ports from the third party developers, it's really tough to justify that purchase when I already have a PS3 that can play the PS2 version of those games for a lot cheaper used.

MJ4H

03-16-2007, 12:58 PM

BrianD

03-16-2007, 01:00 PM

Yeah, that's really frustrating. The controls are different, but they didn't change a thing about the game. I really want to get a Wii at some point, but as long as there are nothing but tons of PS2/Xbox ports from the third party developers, it's really tough to justify that purchase when I already have a PS3 that can play the PS2 version of those games for a lot cheaper used.

I don't think this game was intended to sell the system. It seems to be intended as a more fun way to play a well-liked game. Clearly the "more fun" is in the eyes of folks who are enough of a fan of the control system to have already bought a Wii. For people that own a Wii and other systems, I am not sure why you would buy the game for any system other than the Wii.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 01:02 PM

Took a while before I was able to reply. However, I feel you need to add something to the sentence "the only real beef against the PS3".. a NOW..

Because the rumours were not only rumours. Sony has made a number of poor decisions and have backpedalled after consumer criticism.

Reading up on the backwards compatibility issue, I found that the articles I quoted were from February 23rd, after Sony had made a statement supporting the original problem I mentioned. Then after the outcry that came, there was a March 3rd press-release saying that they will fix the issue and increase support for backwards compatibility.

Looking back at Sony PR for the PS3 the past few months there have been a number of incidents like this that simply make them look rather dumb.

Like the CEO who said he'd pay anyone $1200 for each PS3 they could find on storeshelves. Of course, finding PS3s on storeshelves wasn't very difficult and viola, Sony executives have made a poopoo further decreasing consumers' opinion of their product.

Totally agree with this general point. The fact that there are already 3 million PS3's purchased worldwide with another 1 million soon to be sold in Europe despite continued management blunders is borderline amazing. The recent developers conference is the first time that the execs didn't screw up a PS3 presentation.

sachmo71

03-16-2007, 01:03 PM

I'm always confused by my "demographic". I'm not even sure that my demographic, the 30-40 year old white male, is the main sales target. But what confuses me is this...are we mostly bleeding technology lovers, or are we pratical people who want to have a good time, but don't need to break the bank to do it?

My story...I bought PS2 because it was cheap. I love getting games for under $10 to $20 dollars. I'm having a blast with the console, but I really don't have the time to make it worth more than $100.

The only caveat to this is Wii. My kids will probably love it, and my wife will as well, so I may buy one. But I won't spend $250-$300 on a system and then pay $60 bucks per game.

I don't know how many are like me, but if we are in the majority, it might help explain the PS2 sales.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 01:08 PM

Nothing but? Try Wii Sports, Elebits, Wario Ware, Twilight Princess for starters that are out now. The real fun comes when the big first party games start hitting :Super Paper Mario April 9th and it will be huge, mark my words; Metriod Prime 3 looks incredible; Super Mario Galaxy is dropping jaws all over the place; SSB Brawl looks incredible; and I could go on.

There are some poor ports out there right now, no doubt, but just don't buy those. Get the good games. There are several out now and when the first party storm starts hitting, it should be more than enough to justify the console to fence-sitters.

Yeah, you kind of made my point. I was strictly discussing third party support. I believe the only games that you listed that weren't Nintendo games were SSX and Elebits. I'm not a huge fan of some of the Nintendo franchises, so I need some of those third party games to justify the purchase. Hopefully that will come as the user base increases. I think most developers were a bit leery to develop new stuff for the Wii initially, so it takes time to ramp up the development now that it's doing well.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-16-2007, 01:13 PM

I don't know how many are like me, but if we are in the majority, it might help explain the PS2 sales.

I have a lot of friends that are like you. There's a lot of things going on with your family and kids to the point where you can't get enough out of the games to justify the new purchase. I just had a baby and haven't got to play the PS3 as much as I would like over the past few weeks. Motorstorm was the first time I got any significant PS3 play.

With the extreme amount of quality, cheap titles that can be purchased used for the PS2, there's certainly good reason to stay with that system as long as you enjoy it. Save your money for more important things.

MJ4H

03-16-2007, 01:42 PM

Yeah, you kind of made my point. I was strictly discussing third party support. I believe the only games that you listed that weren't Nintendo games were SSX and Elebits. I'm not a huge fan of some of the Nintendo franchises, so I need some of those third party games to justify the purchase. Hopefully that will come as the user base increases. I think most developers were a bit leery to develop new stuff for the Wii initially, so it takes time to ramp up the development now that it's doing well.

OK I didn't realize that you were referring only to 3rd party. My mistake on that.

twothree

03-16-2007, 01:52 PM

The only caveat to this is Wii. My kids will probably love it, and my wife will as well, so I may buy one. But I won't spend $250-$300 on a system and then pay $60 bucks per game.

I don't know how many are like me, but if we are in the majority, it might help explain the PS2 sales.

Wii game prices are still in line with the previous generation of game prices. $50 for most new games. PS3 and XBOX 360 games are usually $60 for a new game.

I own a Wii, and don't own a PS3, XBOX 360 or XBOX, and I have no plans on purchasing either of them at the moment. The last console I bought was a second PS2. My first PS2 is still working great, but I got tired of moving the PS2 from the bedroom TV to the family room TV.

dawgfan

03-16-2007, 01:56 PM

But, won't there eventually be games that come out that actually need the extra Disc capacity that Blu-ray and HD-DVD offer?
Unlikely. The content capacity of the DVD for games is almost never a significant limiting factor - it's the amount of RAM on the system that is the biggest content limiter.

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD have very little to do with gaming quality and almost everything to do with pushing a media format in the movie buying wars.

dawgfan

03-16-2007, 02:00 PM

I think most developers were a bit leery to develop new stuff for the Wii initially, so it takes time to ramp up the development now that it's doing well.
This is true. If you're a game developer and a game publisher, you can't ignore the huge sales numbers for the Wii, but prior to the Wii launch I think many publishers were in a "wait and see" mode.

It will take some time though - developing for the Wii is a different experience due to both the unique control system and how best to adapt that and take advantage of it for your game as well as the much lower graphical quality as compared to the 360 and PS3.

sabotai

03-16-2007, 02:38 PM

The fact that there are already 3 million PS3's purchased worldwide with another 1 million soon to be sold in Europe despite continued management blunders is borderline amazing.

2 million, not 3: http://www.vgcharts.org/

Godzilla Blitz

03-16-2007, 03:15 PM

I love getting games for under $10 to $20 dollars. I'm having a blast with the console, but I really don't have the time to make it worth more than $100.

The only caveat to this is Wii. My kids will probably love it, and my wife will as well, so I may buy one. But I won't spend $250-$300 on a system and then pay $60 bucks per game.

I don't know how many are like me, but if we are in the majority, it might help explain the PS2 sales.

I'm much the same way. I have so much stuff that I could play already that there has to be a compelling reason to shell out $50 for a new game. Even with the Wii, which our family loves, we've pretty much just played Wii Sports.

As much as I love the Wii, I wonder how much software the casual gamer who owns a Wii is going to buy. I also wonder how the graphics will hold up over a couple of years.

As much as I love to bash Sony, though, I like the PS3 as a purchase in a couple of years. Blue-Ray looks to be gaining the upper hand. They'll be a nice library of games for the system. The price will come down. The system appears reliable and quiet. There is a lot to like here at some point in the future.

Now, however, the library of games for the PS3 is weak. Blue-Rays are expensive. I don't even have an HDTV. The system is expensive. I just don't have a compelling reason to buy the console.

The amazing story in all of this, to me, however, is the DS. Nearly 500,000 units? That's insane!

Atocep

03-16-2007, 03:30 PM

.

As much as I love the Wii, I wonder how much software the casual gamer who owns a Wii is going to buy. I also wonder how the graphics will hold up over a couple of years.

As much as I love to bash Sony, though, I like the PS3 as a purchase in a couple of years. Blue-Ray looks to be gaining the upper hand. They'll be a nice library of games for the system. The price will come down. The system appears reliable and quiet. There is a lot to like here at some point in the future.

The Wii comment is what I've been wondering. I don't see Nintendo getting huge software sales from the Wii a year from now as it just isn't a system you buy with the intent of building up a huge sofware library. Its a system you buy for periodic fun and to show off to friends at parties, ect. That shouldn't take away from the massive success the system has had. A system that had been writen off by most before it was even released is blowing away the other two systems in sales.

PS3 sales will be interesting to watch over the next 12 months. Sony can spin it however they want, but the market share they've lost to Microsoft is a disaster. Their hope has to be that as Blu-Ray gets more of a foothold on the market then people will start looking at the PS3 as a potential buy. As it stands now PS3 is mainly a system for hardcore console gamers and fanboys.

TroyF

03-16-2007, 03:38 PM

I'll just say what I've said all along Mizzou: If you think I have a bias for the 360 and a vendetta against the PS3, you are wrong. I can't prove it. People will just have to rely on my past posts to determine what they believe.

Before the new systems came out, I said I'd buy both on opening day. I said this even after the 360 came out. I am a gamer and while I'm not rich, I have enough money that I can buy any system without problems. I'm making my assessments based off what I believe, not on some irrational hatred against Sony.

Hell, the system I'll be playing most the next three weeks is the PS2.

I'm a GAMER and I dont' think the PS3 is even in the ballpark in terms of quality games compared to the 360. My opinion, nothing more, nothing less. If you are having fun watching blu-Ray movies and playing the titles for the PS3, that's great. I'm good with it.

But the only game on your list of games above that causes me to do a double take is The Show.

The facts are the facts right now. The public is buying 2x more 360's and 3x more Wii's (even though most people can't even find a Wii) It can't even be debated right now that Sony is in a trailing position and needs to get those system selling games out pretty damned quickly or this race will be over before it even begins.

Without a huge base of units, game companies are going to produce far less exclusives for the PS3. They are also going to produce far less gimmicks. It's about sales and the two big user bases right now belong to the console companies NOT named Sony. If that doesn't change pretty quickly (and I see ZERO signs of any change), there isn't even a discussion about this.

One other thing: I've said this before, but I will probably get a PS3 at some point. At first I was planning on the Spring. (after I saw the disaster that would be the launch coming) I'm probably looking at next spring at the earliest now, but that could always change.

I don't have an individual console I pledge my gaming to. Gaming is one of my big hobbies and I'm going to spend my time and money on ANY system that gives me a bang for the buck in fulfilling that hobby. Put out a series of quality games, and I'm there. I currently own a PC, PS2, Wii, 360, DS, and a PSP. (yes, I am a pathetic geek, but I'm content)

sachmo71

03-16-2007, 05:39 PM

I just heard on NPR...average gamer is 33 years old and male. Guess that is the demographic! :D

And GB, don't feel bad, I don't have HD either!

WVUFAN

03-16-2007, 06:14 PM

Mizzou,

I think you are the oddball here. (usually a role I fill to perfection) You bought the PS3 because of the Blu Ray. I think a majority of people buy a console because they want to game on it and ALL other factors are secondary to that singular goal. Have fun while playing games.

If the games gap between the PS3, 360 and Wii are close, then the Blu Ray becomes a factor. Instead what you have is the Wii with an innovative way to play games and the 360 with a solid, deep lineup of games and a lineup of A titles hitting the shelves every month for the rest of the year, many of which are exclusives.

I heard the exact same argument when the PS2 came out. "Why is the price so high? I don't want a DVD Player ... I want to play games on the system!" The fact that the system included a DVD Player FED the DVD Market, just as it's doing with the Blu-Ray. People won't spend 500-800 on a stand-alone Blu-Ray player, but they will buy a game system that just happens to have a nex-gen movie player built in.

Secondly, given time, the fact that the system plays Blu-Ray discs will help the system on a gaming standpoint. Despite what some say, the extra space a Blu-Ray disk has will dramatically help in creating truly next-gen games for the PS3 that that 360 simply will not have, much like the extra space a DVD had helped the PS2 beat a CD-only Dreamcast. I see very similar lines for the PS3/360.

I also see the PS3 and 360 appealing to different crowds. For myself, I could not give two cents about first person shooters or playing online. I'm a strategy/RPG buff, and aside from Mass Effect, I don't see a true RPG out for the 360 anytime soon. That's doesn't mean the 360 is a poor system, it just means I'm not one of the core groups that they're shooting for. I HATE Halo, and Halo-ish games, and that's the demographic the 360 is shooting for.

I've said this before, and I still stand by this -- I see the 360/PS3 war right along the same lines as the Dreamcast/PS2 battle ... the Dreamcast had a headstart, had a good list of games and was less expensive than the PS2, but a superior system with extras that the Dreamcast did not have led to more exclusives over time for the PS2.

The Wii will be a very popular niche system. It's hot now, but it simply does not have the system to go head to head with either a 360 or a PS3 over time. Sooner or later the superior games from Sony and MS will outpace the gimmick of the Wii.

sabotai

03-16-2007, 06:37 PM

I heard the exact same argument when the PS2 came out. "Why is the price so high? I don't want a DVD Player ... I want to play games on the system!" The fact that the system included a DVD Player FED the DVD Market, just as it's doing with the Blu-Ray. People won't spend 500-800 on a stand-alone Blu-Ray player, but they will buy a game system that just happens to have a nex-gen movie player built in.

The PS2 did not feed the DVD market. When the PS2 came out, DVD players were affordable as were DVD-ROM drives, and had been for awhile. I remember in '99, Best Buy had already changed their movie section to be several rows of DVDs and hardly any VHS. The VHS was already dead by the time the PS2 came out.

TroyF

03-16-2007, 06:44 PM

The problem with your theory is two fold. One, while the DC was a great, underutilized system, it never had the game support going for it. It just didn't. The NFL 2K series was nice, but the Dreamcast had no EA support. At the time, EA was dominant.

Also, while some people may have said the PS2 was priced high, was a fancy DVD player or other things. . . it had a buzz and sold well.

It was huge early, middle and late. There wasn't some slow start because of the Dreamcast. The PS2 was compatible with all PS1 games (huge at the time, less so today), had a series of A+ titles that were out at realease (Madden, NHL, SSX, Dynasty Warriors, and a slew of other hits)

The exclusives from Sony started off almost right away and never stopped. The Dreamcast couldn't get over not having EA in the mix. The PS2 had a leg up before the game even started. That isn't the case anymore.

The fact the PS2 sold more in it's worst month thant the PS3 has just 3 months into its existense should be more than enough evidence of that. Why it isn't in your case, I have no idea.

MJ4H

03-16-2007, 06:47 PM

The wii is not a gimmick. That idea annoys me.

sabotai

03-16-2007, 07:04 PM

Also, while some people may have said the PS2 was priced high

When the PS2 was released, it sold for $300. There will always be people saying "it cost too much" when a new console is released.

EDIT: And the Dreamcast was pretty much dead when the PS2 was released. From January 2000 to August 2000, the Dreamcast failed to sell more than 100,000 units ina single month. The PS2 didn't hurt the sales of the Dreamcast. After the PS2 launched, the Dreamcast actually sold a bit better than it had during the year before the PS2 launched. The Dreamcast also failed to sell better than the PS(1) or the N64 (the last gen consoles), at any point in its history.

Blade6119

03-16-2007, 07:11 PM

The wii is not a gimmick. That idea annoys me.

I think it is a total gimmic....nintendo basically sold a current gen system(do not try to argue it is on the same level power wise as the 360 or ps3) to everyone by changing the controller. Everyone may love it, and thats all wonderful...it was brilliant business. But its a gimmick, one im suprised has done so well considering that in 2 years time you will have to buy another nintendo console while PS3 is just hitting its stride.

In my humble opinion, over the long run wii users will be spending quite a bit of money as well as nintendo will have to release another console in 2-3 years, while sony and microsoft will likely go 5-6.

WVUFAN

03-16-2007, 07:23 PM

The PS2 did not feed the DVD market. When the PS2 came out, DVD players were affordable as were DVD-ROM drives, and had been for awhile. I remember in '99, Best Buy had already changed their movie section to be several rows of DVDs and hardly any VHS. The VHS was already dead by the time the PS2 came out.

It sure did feed DVD sales. Less than a year after the PS2 came out, DVD movies sales were 4 times what they were prior to the PS2. Even the most hardened anti-Sony person admits that DVD sales would not be what they are today without the presence of the Playstation 2.

From 1UP.com:

"Of course, the PS2's initial success had as much to do with its movie playback features as with its software selection; the PS2 was actually cheaper than the vast majority of Japanese DVD players that were for sale at the time of its launch. Quite a few people picked up systems simply for the movies...the fact that they'd eventually have access to a solid software library was a definite bonus."

Link: hxxp://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=1&cId=3144956 (http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=1&cId=3144956)

MJ4H

03-16-2007, 07:25 PM

I think it is a total gimmic....nintendo basically sold a current gen system(do not try to argue it is on the same level power wise as the 360 or ps3) to everyone by changing the controller. Everyone may love it, and thats all wonderful...it was brilliant business. But its a gimmick, one im suprised has done so well considering that in 2 years time you will have to buy another nintendo console while PS3 is just hitting its stride.

In my humble opinion, over the long run wii users will be spending quite a bit of money as well as nintendo will have to release another console in 2-3 years, while sony and microsoft will likely go 5-6.

Do you think there is no merit in the control design? Do you really think that? I believe it is quite clearly going to lead to a major change in game design in the future. That is not a gimmick. If consoles ignore the innovations of the design in future generations, I will come back here and say you were right it was a gimmick (even though it was really just a failed idea). And the Wii is more powerful than you realize if you consider it on par with last-gen hardware.

MJ4H

03-16-2007, 07:27 PM

It sure did feed DVD sales. Less than a year after the PS2 came out, DVD movies sales were 4 times what they were prior to the PS2. Even the most hardened anti-Sony person admits that DVD sales would not be what they are today without the presence of the Playstation 2.

From 1UP.com:

"Of course, the PS2's initial success had as much to do with its movie playback features as with its software selection; the PS2 was actually cheaper than the vast majority of Japanese DVD players that were for sale at the time of its launch. Quite a few people picked up systems simply for the movies...the fact that they'd eventually have access to a solid software library was a definite bonus."

Link: hxxp://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=1&cId=3144956 (http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=1&cId=3144956)

Count me in the camp that was persuaded to buy a PS2 by the fact that it could play DVDs. I remember at the time the price difference between a PS2 and a stand-alone DVD player was not significant enough for us to go with the DVD player. We still to this day use the PS2 as our DVD player.

WVUFAN

03-16-2007, 07:32 PM

The exclusives from Sony started off almost right away and never stopped. The Dreamcast couldn't get over not having EA in the mix. The PS2 had a leg up before the game even started. That isn't the case anymore.

The fact the PS2 sold more in it's worst month thant the PS3 has just 3 months into its existense should be more than enough evidence of that. Why it isn't in your case, I have no idea.

No, you have a good point. I'm not defending the poor initial release of the PS3, nor am I saying the 360 does not have a significant advantage over the PS3 at this time. Right now, the 360 is winning. What I'm sure of, though, is Sony is looking at this war a year or two from now. They're looking at developers seeing the potential of the PS3, and seeing better quality games being able to be produced for the PS3 than the 360. The 360 specifically limited itself when they didn't go for a next-gen storage format for their games, and it will come back to bite them later. The PS3 is made for the long run, whereas the 360 was not.

The Wii IS a gimmick system. The graphics are barely better than a Gamecube, and is simply doesn't have the bones to create real compelling games outside of the gimmick, Zelda notwithstanding. It's selling because it's what I call a "+1 system", ie, I have a PS3/360 + a Wii. It's not gonna be the primary game system a year or two from now.

MJ4H

03-16-2007, 07:38 PM

I reiterate my strong disagreement with the Wii being a gimmick system and my disagreement that the graphics are "barely better than a Gamecube." (most people I see say this say it based on Twilight Princess which looks nearly identical on both systems other than some framerate hits on the GC version, yet this game is not a good example of the power of the Wii--look at games like Super Mario Galaxy for that).

The control system is far from a gimmick. It is extremely intuitive and allows for gaming in a style completely unexplored to this point, and it is CLEARLY appealing. Future advances to this concept will make it even better. If it goes away for next generation, I will agree it is a gimmick. But not until then because I just don't see that happening. Do you think the dual-screen and touch screen ideas in the Nintendo DS are a gimmick, too?

MJ4H

03-16-2007, 07:40 PM

Dola: I think people that think it is a gimmick either haven't actually used it extensively or haven't been keeping up with what is coming down the pike for the Wii. To say it is just a gimmick is beyond bizzare to me. I think the Wii 'drought' may be playing a part in this too. Just be patient. This thing is about to blow up.

Godzilla Blitz

03-16-2007, 08:46 PM

I just heard on NPR...average gamer is 33 years old and male. Guess that is the demographic! :D

Most of the age figures I've seen in the press come from the SPA, which isn't forthcoming with their research, and has a staked interest in getting us to believe that gaming appeals to a wider demographic than it really does.

While the average age might be 33 years old, I bet they included the 65-year-old woman who played solitaire for 20 minutes once in the last year as a "gamer". She is nothing compared to the high school student who plays World of Warcraft for 40 hours a week.

I remember reading a great article about this a couple of years ago, and their research showed that gaming more and more is reaching an older demographic (as gamers get older, they still game), but "gaming hours per week" is incredibly skewed toward the younger ages.

sabotai

03-16-2007, 09:05 PM

It sure did feed DVD sales. Less than a year after the PS2 came out, DVD movies sales were 4 times what they were prior to the PS2.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/cemadvdsales.html

You'll see the sale of DVD players jump up considerably in 1999 and 2000 (PS2 launched in the US in Oct. 2000). The chart does not include game console sales or DVD-ROM drive sales. 1 mil DVD players sold in 98, 4 million in 1999 and then 8.5 million in 2000, for a total of 13.5 million DVD players at the end of 2000 to about 1.3 million PS2s sold by the end of 2000. In 2001, about 6.8 million PS2s sold vs. 12.7 million DVD players (8.1 million PS2s to 26.2 million DVD players)

The argument might hold water if the PS2 outsold DVD players, like I would image PS3s are outselling Blu-Ray players (just an impression since I can't find actual sales numbers for Blu-Ray players), but the DVD player had a decent install base by the time the PS2 launched, and a pretty good one by the end of 2001.

Even the most hardened anti-Sony person admits that DVD sales would not be what they are today without the presence of the Playstation 2.

Here we go...."if you disagree, you're just anti-Sony/a Micro$oft fan boy." Uh huh. :rolleyes:

dawgfan

03-16-2007, 10:03 PM

Secondly, given time, the fact that the system plays Blu-Ray discs will help the system on a gaming standpoint. Despite what some say, the extra space a Blu-Ray disk has will dramatically help in creating truly next-gen games for the PS3 that that 360 simply will not have, much like the extra space a DVD had helped the PS2 beat a CD-only Dreamcast. I see very similar lines for the PS3/360.

The 360 specifically limited itself when they didn't go for a next-gen storage format for their games, and it will come back to bite them later. The PS3 is made for the long run, whereas the 360 was not.
Sorry, but this simply isn't true. Storage capacity on regular DVD's is not a significant limiting factor for games - the major limiting factor is the amount of RAM (video and otherwise) on the console. Very few games will be designed to contain so much content that gets streamed in over the course of a game that the storage capacity of a standard DVD becomes a limiting factor. And if a game really does need a lot more capacity than a single DVD can carry, disks are cheap - publishers can easily pack multiple disks in a case if the game calls for it with only a moderate increase in manufacturing costs.

But hey, just because I work in the video game industry doesn't you should listen to me, right?

WVUFAN

03-16-2007, 10:16 PM

Here we go...."if you disagree, you're just anti-Sony/a Micro$oft fan boy." Uh huh. :rolleyes:

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. This isn't indicitive of you, but there's a number of hardcore M$ fans that absolutely will not admit anything positive about the Playstation.

Sorry, but this simply isn't true. Storage capacity on regular DVD's is not a significant limiting factor for games - the major limiting factor is the amount of RAM (video and otherwise) on the console. Very few games will be designed to contain so much content that gets streamed in over the course of a game that the storage capacity of a standard DVD becomes a limiting factor. And if a game really does need a lot more capacity than a single DVD can carry, disks are cheap - publishers can easily pack multiple disks in a case if the game calls for it with only a moderate increase in manufacturing costs.

I don't work in the video game industry, but I can give you quote after quote after quote of developers talking about the positives of the Blu-Ray format in development of next-gen games, specifically talking about data storage. I'm just going by what I have read.

By the logic you're stating, why not use standard CD's? They're cheaper to manufacture, and since developers can pack multiple disks, why bother making games on DVD disks?

Case in point. (http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/18/games-already-filling-25gb-blu-ray-discs/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurogamer.net%2Farticle.php%3Farticle_id%3D68761&frame=true)

From that article:

"DVD is not sufficient capacity to power the kind of data consumption, or to feed the data consumption needs of Cell and RSX - just purely as a gameplay device, we need Blu-Ray to supply the kind of data that PS3 games use."

"It's not just about graphics," he said. "It's about 7.1 audio, it's about speech, it's about having up to 1080p movies built into the game; it's high-res textures, it's animation, it's everything that goes into making a very rich and varied next-gen experience. Partly it's visual, partly it's sound, and partially it'll be down to gameplay benefits as well - more levels, more detail, richer experiences."

But hey, just because I work in the video game industry doesn't you should listen to me, right?

Now you're just being an irritating smartass, and I have no idea why. Did I spit in your wheaties or something?

Seriously, I'm amazed at the level of venom spewed on this board when someone says anything remotely positive about the PS3/negative about the 360. Jesus.

TroyF

03-16-2007, 10:44 PM

1) The Wii is NOT a gimmik. Nor is it a +1 system.

The control scheme is intuitive, enjoyable and has a ton of possibilities for games. It's staggering how well the controls have been implemented in some EARLY titles for the system. Madden on the Wii destroyed every other console. The darned thing was fun. REALLY fun.

As for the +1, maybe that's true for hardcore gamers. It isn't true for a ton of US households. The system is perfect for families, giving something parents can play with their kids. Many, many families who wouldn't otherwise purchase a game system are going for the Wii.

It's a solid, enjoyable system. Again, we aren't talking about a month of hype here. The system is flying off the shelves 4 months after release and sold 300k+ units last month. That isn't an accident. If Sony (or Microsoft) assume the Wii is going away, they will be sadly mistaken.

I don't care how anyone tries to spin this, Sony is in trouble at this point. They are a distant third in this console war right now and I still haven't seen any signs that it's going to change. They need hit games and a ton of them and they need them quickly.

They don't have two years down the road to generate a buzz. The 360 will be on it's third generation of titles, the Wii will have games that use the control scheme even better than they currently do.

If the current numbers are right, they look like this:

Overall - 360 - 9.56 million units worldwide, Wii - 5.84, PS3 - 2.08

US - 360 - 5.83 million units, Wii - 2.30, PS3 - 1.28

In terms of software sales, the 360 sold over 2 million copies of games. The Wii chimed in at 1.6 million. The PS3 sold 438k.

In the top 20 software chart, the 360 had 7 games, the Wii 5, the DS 4, the PS2 2, the GC 1 and the PS3 1. (Resistence)

As for the Role Playing Games part and not being a fan of shooters, looking at the release dates for the PS3, I can only find a handfull of RPG's, most of wich will be coming out in late December. (FF and Monster Kingdom being 2)

Meanwhile, I see 10+ shooters that will be out before November.

FF is a system seller. . . but by the time that rolls around, the PS3 may be on life support.

TroyF

03-16-2007, 10:49 PM

So, by this time next year it would not be impossible for the 360 to have a Blu-ray player ad-on instead of its current HD-DVD?

Sure, anything is possible. But I won't be buying it unless it improves the games.

The 360 seems to be putting out some pretty incredible games right now that have no need for Blu Ray. I doubt MS changes at this point.

If dawgfan and me are wrong, Sony will be sitting pretty in a year. MS will be behind the curve. I don't see it. I could be wrong.

Godzilla Blitz

03-16-2007, 11:05 PM

WVUFAN

03-16-2007, 11:16 PM

dawgfan

03-17-2007, 01:02 AM

I don't work in the video game industry, but I can give you quote after quote after quote of developers talking about the positives of the Blu-Ray format in development of next-gen games, specifically talking about data storage. I'm just going by what I have read.
I'd love to see some quotes from people that aren't at Sony or working on PS3 exclusive games. I talk to our developers all the time, we make games for both the 360 and PS3, and none of them seems to think there's much of an advantage from a game perspective of the larger capacity of the Blu-Ray disks. Our developers are worrying about displaying all of the content we'd like to have in our game (i.e. the limits imposed by RAM, the GPU and CPU); disk-space on the DVD isn't even on the radar as a concern.

By the logic you're stating, why not use standard CD's? They're cheaper to manufacture, and since developers can pack multiple disks, why bother making games on DVD disks?
This is a silly argument and you know it. You can create a game with a tremendous amount of content and fit it on the footprint of a normal DVD. The difference in capacity between CD's and the dual-layer DVD's the 360 uses is much greater in magnitude than between the 360's dual-layer DVD's and Blu-Ray.

Case in point. (http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/18/games-already-filling-25gb-blu-ray-discs/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurogamer.net%2Farticle.php%3Farticle_id%3D68761&frame=true)
Quotes from the Sony Studio head Phil Harrison, and he's wildly exaggerating the supposed gaming benefits of Blu-Ray.

From that article:

"DVD is not sufficient capacity to power the kind of data consumption, or to feed the data consumption needs of Cell and RSX - just purely as a gameplay device, we need Blu-Ray to supply the kind of data that PS3 games use."

"It's not just about graphics," he said. "It's about 7.1 audio, it's about speech, it's about having up to 1080p movies built into the game; it's high-res textures, it's animation, it's everything that goes into making a very rich and varied next-gen experience. Partly it's visual, partly it's sound, and partially it'll be down to gameplay benefits as well - more levels, more detail, richer experiences."
Bullshit. The only point where he's not full of shit is regarding pre-rendered content such as movies. Audio, textures, animation - all of that is limited by the RAM on the system. You can pack as high-res, high-quality audio, awesome animation, etc. as you want on the disk, but the machine can only handle pushing so much content on-screen at once. Reading off the Blu-Ray drive isn't anywhere near fast enough to act as a supplement to the RAM. So, a console can only push so much graphical and audio information and run said content at a certain speed, all governed by the CPU, GPU and RAM.

If a PS3 game has higher-res textures than its 360 counterpart, that's going to be due to GPU power and RAM capacity, not Blu-Ray. If a PS3 game has higher-quality animations, that's going to be due to RAM. If a PS3 game has higher-quality audio during gameplay, that's going to be due primarily to RAM and the audio chip (though there could be instances between gameplay where a developer could conceivably stream a higher-quality of audio).

If having a lot of pre-rendered movies streaming between instances of gameplay makes your gaming experience significantly better, well then Blu-Ray is an advantage. But many games nowadays steer away from pre-rendered cut scenes and instead do all of their cinematics using the in-game engine and game assets rather than doing something pre-rendered.

Right now, the leap in capacity between the DVD and Blu-Ray (and HD-DVD) is greater than the leap in things like RAM and GPU power - when game consoles moved from CD as the media to DVD, the capacity of the RAM and the GPU capability on those systems was a bigger leap than what you're seeing currently; as such, all that extra room on the Blu-Ray is not vitally necessary to deliver excellent game content.

If game content quality is significantly better on the PS3 than the 360 (and I'm skeptical that there will really be that much actual difference, again from talking with our programmers), that will be primarily due to superiority in the hardware, not the media format.

Now you're just being an irritating smartass, and I have no idea why. Did I spit in your wheaties or something?

Seriously, I'm amazed at the level of venom spewed on this board when someone says anything remotely positive about the PS3/negative about the 360. Jesus.
I have no incentive to dislike the PS3 - the more of them that are sold, the more of an install base there will be for the game I'm working on, and the more money I'll make in royalties if it sells well. I just think they miscalculated by using the PS3 as a trojan horse to establish Blu-Ray is the new DVD media standard. They may win that battle, but I think it will be a temporary one anyway with the growing advent of services to download HD movies for rental or purchase (such as on Xbox Live and as Apple is gearing up to offer). And I think they will lose a tremendous amount of ground in the game console arena to Nintendo and Microsoft.

I was a bit of a smart-ass with that comment, but your statement that "Despite what some say, the extra space a Blu-Ray disk has will dramatically help in creating truly next-gen games for the PS3 that that 360 simply will not have, much like the extra space a DVD had helped the PS2 beat a CD-only Dreamcast" seemed a fairly direct attack on my previous statements in this thread, so I made clear the reason why I feel I have credibility on this issue. And for the record, the primary reason the PS2 beat the Dreamcast is because Sony was able to influence developers away from publishing games for the Dreamcast, both by back-door dealing and by the greater graphical horsepower and computing power of the PS2 over the Dreamcast. The DVD played a much lesser role in that victory.

TroyF

03-17-2007, 08:03 AM

Troy,

I don't see Sony sitting pretty in a year, but does Sony have to turn this around during 2007? Where is the point of no return?

Say they sell 150k units a month for this year, putting them at roughly 3 million units at the end of 2007. The 360 could be at 8 million, and the Wii at roughly 6 million?

But during 2008, Blue-Ray demand picks up, the PS3 price drops, and there is now a solid PS3 library available. If that happens, would it be too late for Sony for the PS3 to storm back during late 2008 and 2009?

Anything is possible. . . BUT. . . keep in mind the Blu-Ray would have to take of by Christmastime this year. More consoles will be sold and Sony could see themselves 8-12 million units down to both the Wii and the 360 by that time.

Also, keep in mind the 360 now holds the cards. Sony does a price drop, they can too. It's not like the 360 is going to stop selling systems or putting out quality games. (Think Halo 3, Forza, Mass Effect, Shadowrun, and unannounced games you know are coming like Gears of War 2)

And yet again, my problem with the entire PS3 kicks up with your comment. They are banking on the sale of their gaming machine to be driven by a DVD format. It's insanity.

Sure, Sony could put out FF, Metal Gear Solid, and God knows what else and save their system from complete and total disaster. But if their downward trend continues for the rest of this year like it looks like will happen, they could be in a hole they can't recover from.

Lets also not kid ourselves here. .. Sony was not planning all along to be getting their asses kicked by Microsoft four months into their release. They expected to be where the Wii is right now. They had planned on catching MS by the end of the year at the latest and figured the king would dominate. They've miscalculated virtually every part of this release so far, are putting out more spin than the Bush administration, and I'm expected to believe they are going to be smart enough to launch a comeback?

When I see the signs of that, I'll be the first to post it. Then I'm sure some of the 360 fans would say I was a Sony fanboy. :) I love debates.

stevew

03-18-2007, 09:08 AM

Finally got a Wii this morning at ToysRUs. A bit less than happy I had to buy Sonic with it in a bundle, but I suppose the 30 dollar gift card wasn't too bad. Now I need to buy a wireless router, and I should be good to go.

Easy Mac

03-18-2007, 06:43 PM

Looks like Best Buy is going to stop selling the 20gb version of the PS3. Could Sony just be cutting its losses and going full bore, or is it just Best Buy giving up on that model.

Fidatelo

03-18-2007, 11:27 PM

Can some mod change Mizzou B-ball fan's title from "College Prospect" to "Bob Cole" please?

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-19-2007, 06:39 AM

Looks like Best Buy is going to stop selling the 20gb version of the PS3. Could Sony just be cutting its losses and going full bore, or is it just Best Buy giving up on that model.

There's no reason to even have that 20 GB model. It's a bastardized version of the system and if you're going to pay to get a PS3, you'd be an idiot not to get the 60 GB version with the wireless connection. That's more of a consumer reaction than anything else. Sony and Best Buy are just reacting to the consumers, who obviously prefer the 60 GB model. I'm sure it won't bother Sony as they can have a more streamlined process as the 20 GB model is phased out.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-19-2007, 10:20 AM

$340 60 GB PS3 in Canada with any 10 used games? Someone should give this a whirl. Great deal.

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/03/what-deal.html

And a post from Bill absolutely blasting the Wii Tiger Woods game and the people who make excuses for third party Wii games......

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/03/puzzle-quest-after-few-other-things.html

Then I tried Tiger Woods for the Wii. People need to stop complaining that third-party titles aren't selling well on the Wii, because they would sell if somebody made a decent game. Tiger Woods does some interesting things to utilize the Wii controller, but to me, Wii Sports provides a better swing experience, and much better putting, than freaking Tiger Woods does.

And it looks like absolute ass. Here's a note to all third-party software developers: the fact that the Wii isn't a 360 or a PS3 is no excuse to make your Wii games look like PS2 games from 2002.

What's really disappointing about this is that the Wii is capable of excellent graphics--again, Wii Sports is a good example. The golf courses looked bright and vibrant. EA, though, wants to port instead of starting fresh, and the graphics look very, very weak.

Also weak are the ball physics, which are, in a word, crap.

Here's the way to make Tiger Woods a huge hit on the Wii, and EA will never do it: use real courses, but present them with the same kind of vibrant graphics Nintendo used on the Wii Sports golf courses. And make Mii's for all the professional golfers. So it's a serious golf simulation, and the course dimensions are accurate, but the graphics have a cartoon edge to them.

Oh, and fix the damn putting. Tiger Woods for the PC used to have the best putting model I've ever seen--it was absolutely fantastic. But when a game keeps getting released every year, even the features that work perfectly are going to get changed, and they'll wind up broken.

That's what happened to putting.

It used to be perfectly, absolutely smooth, but on the 360 version this year, Tiger's follow-through looks like he's trying to lag a twenty-footer when he's tapping in a two-foot putt, and on the Wii, both the animations and the effort required just look and feel wrong.

But I digress.

BrianD

03-19-2007, 10:37 AM

BrianD

03-19-2007, 11:13 AM

No, he's not saying that at all. He's saying that if Nintendo can produce vivid courses for its Wii Sports games, there's no reason that EA can't go back and clean up its courses to make them look good even in 480p. It's really not a surprise that they didn't do that. I even mentioned earlier in this thread that EA would port it over without anything new other than a new control mechanism.

He isn't?

Here's the way to make Tiger Woods a huge hit on the Wii, and EA will never do it: use real courses, but present them with the same kind of vibrant graphics Nintendo used on the Wii Sports golf courses. And make Mii's for all the professional golfers. So it's a serious golf simulation, and the course dimensions are accurate, but the graphics have a cartoon edge to them.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-19-2007, 11:15 AM

He isn't?

I reread and retracted. My opinion is different than Bill's in that regard. They should just bother to upgrade the game IMO, which they didn't.

spleen1015

03-19-2007, 11:22 AM

Fact - Sony is in a deep hole, Microsoft is winning, and Nintendo knows what the hell their doing. Regardless, we, the gamers, win!

YTBD - Who wins

BrianD

03-19-2007, 11:23 AM

I reread and retracted. My opinion is different than Bill's in that regard. They should just bother to upgrade the game IMO, which they didn't.

I would agree with your disagreement with Bill, but it doesn't surprise me that EA didn't touch the game during the port. It would be nice if they smoothed out the graphics, but I can't believe it would increase their profits with the game. This is one of those cases where business always comes ahead of the customers. I don't know the numbers, but it has to be fairly expensive to bring a development team back in and re-do the graphics.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-19-2007, 11:30 AM

This is one of those cases where business always comes ahead of the customers. I don't know the numbers, but it has to be fairly expensive to bring a development team back in and re-do the graphics.

Well, we can only hope that the consumers vote with their wallets and don't buy the game. If the Wii continues to be the system of ports, they're going to have a hard time keeping their momentum. It's a shame, because there is opportunity to create games that could really show off the system, but developers are taking the low road thus far.

gstelmack

03-19-2007, 11:32 AM

I talk to our developers all the time, we make games for both the 360 and PS3, and none of them seems to think there's much of an advantage from a game perspective of the larger capacity of the Blu-Ray disks. Our developers are worrying about displaying all of the content we'd like to have in our game (i.e. the limits imposed by RAM, the GPU and CPU); disk-space on the DVD isn't even on the radar as a concern.

I'll back dawgfan on this one. It costs an arm-and-a-leg to produce DVD-sized content as it is. I don't know if anyone can afford to make a game that fills either of the Hi-Def formats (barring someone making one of those pre-rendered cut-scene only games that were popular a decade or so ago).

TroyF

03-19-2007, 11:38 AM

Well, we can only hope that the consumers vote with their wallets and don't buy the game. If the Wii continues to be the system of ports, they're going to have a hard time keeping their momentum. It's a shame, because there is opportunity to create games that could really show off the system, but developers are taking the low road thus far.

I'd agree with that to a point. The thing you are missing is the titles Nintendo will put out themselves. Also, some of the ports are going to work.

Madden for the Wii is better than any other system because of the "fun" factor. It looks like SSX and Tiger missed, but it's the first generation of games for the system. (I didn't purchase either game by the way) I'd expect the games will get better, but it's just a guess. For me, with the price point where it was and the games I KNOW will be good (Wii Sports and Twilight Princess already, Metroid/Mario games/and others on the way) this is still a great system.

The amazing thing to me is playing a game like God of War II. I look at the graphics, load times and controls on an "old" system, and find very little there to tell me the Wii can't produce the same if they choose to. It also tells me there isn't a lot of need for BluRay in gaming. Just my opinion though, I could be wrong. :)

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-19-2007, 11:49 AM

The amazing thing to me is playing a game like God of War II. I look at the graphics, load times and controls on an "old" system, and find very little there to tell me the Wii can't produce the same if they choose to. It also tells me there isn't a lot of need for BluRay in gaming. Just my opinion though, I could be wrong. :)

That argument concerning improvement of technology is an old one. It doesn't usually pan out. People played the PS1 for an extended period of time after the PS2 was released and said the same thing. If there isn't a demand for increased system horsepower, the companies wouldn't be producing new systems like the 360 and PS3. If there wasn't a demand, graphics card companies wouldn't be putting out a new and better model every few months.

What we're seeing now is a lot of people reacting adversely to the high price point by Sony. As a result, more of them are making the move to a late adopter and sticking with the old system for awhile. At some point, that will change and late adopters will enter the market. The numbers that make that change and when will be a telling thing. There's a lot of good games coming onto the PS3 system right now. The March and April sales numbers will be telling as to whether that helped the PS3. The attach rates for February were a good early sign for Sony and I'm sure they're hoping that continues.

Atocep

03-19-2007, 11:50 AM

Madden for the Wii is better than any other system because of the "fun" factor. It looks like SSX and Tiger missed, but it's the first generation of games for the system. (I didn't purchase either game by the way) I'd expect the games will get better, but it's just a guess. For me, with the price point where it was and the games I KNOW will be good (Wii Sports and Twilight Princess already, Metroid/Mario games/and others on the way) this is still a great system.

This is where I think there's some truth to the 'gimmick' statements. Nintendo is already doing a great job making games that utilize the capabilities of the Wii, but 3rd party developers seem to be trying for force things. They really don't know how to incorporate the nunchuck into games, they just know they're supposed to.

Whether its a fair statement or not, it'll stick until someone besides Nintendo steps up and makes a solid game that shows off what the system is capable of.

TroyF

03-19-2007, 12:43 PM

That argument concerning improvement of technology is an old one. It doesn't usually pan out. People played the PS1 for an extended period of time after the PS2 was released and said the same thing. If there isn't a demand for increased system horsepower, the companies wouldn't be producing new systems like the 360 and PS3. If there wasn't a demand, graphics card companies wouldn't be putting out a new and better model every few months.

What we're seeing now is a lot of people reacting adversely to the high price point by Sony. As a result, more of them are making the move to a late adopter and sticking with the old system for awhile. At some point, that will change and late adopters will enter the market. The numbers that make that change and when will be a telling thing. There's a lot of good games coming onto the PS3 system right now. The March and April sales numbers will be telling as to whether that helped the PS3. The attach rates for February were a good early sign for Sony and I'm sure they're hoping that continues.

As usual, per the thread, you missed my entire point. It's not about system horsepower. . . of course we all want more. It was about BluRay being needed for higher end graphics and space.

It isn't needed and won't be utilized for years, if ever.

There is no good way to spin Sony's numbers for February. I'm sorry, there just isn't.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-19-2007, 01:16 PM

As usual, per the thread, you missed my entire point. It's not about system horsepower. . . of course we all want more. It was about BluRay being needed for higher end graphics and space.

It's the same thing. At some point, that space will be needed and used. 5 years ago, we couldn't have imagined how far technology would have advanced. Certainly, we can debate whether Sony is jumping TOO far ahead of the curve and whether they created a storage medium that won't be needed. The PS2 ran into storage problems a bit too early in my opinion.

Allowing too much space in a storage medium to allow the room that might be needed in the future doesn't seem like a bad gamble to me. Past consoles have never run into the problem of having too much room on the storage medium. If the PS3 still has excess room halfway through its life cycle, then you might have a point. But it's far too early to make that assertion at this point.

Big Fo

03-19-2007, 01:38 PM

I think that Tiger on the Wii has been treated rather harshly by some reviewers and messageboard posters, who might have been too accustomed to how piss easy the game normally was with an analog stick. The first round I played I was all over the course, three-putting greens, and shot in the high 80s but by the third round I was breaking par. The putting is tricky on occasion and I do over/undershoot the hole by ten feet at times which is frustrating but I'm to the point where I still one-putt most holes and putting isn't supposed to be easy anyhow. The graphics are poor but this isn't a big deal in a golf game IMO.

It's a lot more fun shooting realistic scores with the Wiimote than shooting 56 with an analog stick.

As for the PS3, yeah it looks like a bad deal at the moment but hopefully things will pick up to the point where buying one is worth it, mainly because I like the region-free aspect of it. Were I to get one, there would be no more waiting six to twelve months for the new Winning Eleven/Pro Evolution Soccer to come out in the US. But I'm willing to wait a year or so and hope for some kind of price drop.

Tyrith

03-19-2007, 01:43 PM

It's the same thing. At some point, that space will be needed and used. 5 years ago, we couldn't have imagined how far technology would have advanced. Certainly, we can debate whether Sony is jumping TOO far ahead of the curve and whether they created a storage medium that won't be needed. The PS2 ran into storage problems a bit too early in my opinion.

Allowing too much space in a storage medium to allow the room that might be needed in the future doesn't seem like a bad gamble to me. Past consoles have never run into the problem of having too much room on the storage medium. If the PS3 still has excess room halfway through its life cycle, then you might have a point. But it's far too early to make that assertion at this point.

From a purely technological point of view, there is certainly merit to being prepared for future technological advances. However, from a business point of view there is also a need to make money now, and to develop an installed user base to sell stuff to, and Sony is failing miserably in that regard. It doesn't matter if the PS3 is a technological terror compared to the 360 in 2 or 3 years -- if Sony doesn't start selling more units NOW, the 360 will have a user base that's so much bigger that it won't matter. All of the technological features in the world don't matter unless they are transferred into actual advantages and into United States dollars, Japanese yen, or Europeans euros.

From the business perspective Sony has dug themselves a huge hole. They have a system that is very impressive, but is also very expensive and doesn't offer features that people actually find a need for (see Vista). The hi-def DVD movement seems unlikely to take off in the same manner that the DVD market originally did, because DVDs replaced a format that was cubersome and prone to error, while hi-def DVD replaces a format that people already like. This will limit the appeal of the PS3 as a movie device. The fact that the Blu-ray player massively increased the price caused even more of a backlash because of the PS3s other problem -- there aren't games on it people want! At least that aren't already available for the much wildly owned 360. Until they release multiple exclusive killer app games the PS3 is going to have a hard time gaining population traction.

And remember, the 360 has these sales advantages....and they haven't released Halo 3 yet. Just think about what that will do for 360 sales numbers, especially if there is a price drop any time before or within 3-6 months of the launch.

Icy

03-19-2007, 01:53 PM

4 days to the release in Spain, let's see March numbers as should be interesting once the PS3 reach their prime market, Europe. In Spain a 86% of the consoles are from Sony right now (PS1/PS2/PSP) and 80,000 Ps3 consoles will arrive in Spain for the release day.

You can't buy them anywhere in Spain now as all them have been preordered so I expect a 70,000 raise for the PS3 sales number from 23th (let's say those other 10k PS3 are in some remote stores who didn't take preorders).

Sony has pissed all the Euro customers, but customers forgets soon.

Godzilla Blitz

03-19-2007, 01:56 PM

It doesn't matter if the PS3 is a technological terror compared to the 360 in 2 or 3 years -- if Sony doesn't start selling more units NOW, the 360 will have a user base that's so much bigger that it won't matter.

The line that Sony needs the PS3 to succeed NOW is the part that I keep wondering about. It's not like gaming is all they've got as an income source. Say they take a bloodbath on the PS3 for another year. Does that mean the system is dead? That it can't be profitable after that? That developers will give up on it?

Specifically, what happens to doom the PS3 is if it doesn't sell well this year?

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-19-2007, 01:58 PM

From a purely technological point of view, there is certainly merit to being prepared for future technological advances. However, from a business point of view there is also a need to make money now, and to develop an installed user base to sell stuff to, and Sony is failing miserably in that regard. It doesn't matter if the PS3 is a technological terror compared to the 360 in 2 or 3 years -- if Sony doesn't start selling more units NOW, the 360 will have a user base that's so much bigger that it won't matter. All of the technological features in the world don't matter unless they are transferred into actual advantages and into United States dollars, Japanese yen, or Europeans euros.

And remember, the 360 has these sales advantages....and they haven't released Halo 3 yet. Just think about what that will do for 360 sales numbers, especially if there is a price drop any time before or within 3-6 months of the launch.

I agree with the obvious situation regarding the PS3 finances. The drop of the 20 GB machine will help as they were making $65 less per sale on that machine than a 60 GB machine.

I don't buy the argument regarding the sales of the 360. Even with the slow sales of the PS3, the 360 hasn't been flying off the shelves either. While the new Halo game may boost 360 sales marginally, it should be noted that Sony hasn't released any of its major franchises yet either. Those games will give the PS3 a boost when they are released as they will be the first iteration on the new console.

You can bookmark this post if you feel the need, but I feel pretty safe in saying that the PS3 will have significantly closed the gap in consoles worldwide by the end of this holiday season. If so, MS will have no one to blame but themselves for failing to kill-shot the PS3 when it was down.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-19-2007, 02:11 PM

You can't buy them anywhere in Spain now as all them have been preordered so I expect a 70,000 raise for the PS3 sales number from 23th (let's say those other 10k PS3 are in some remote stores who didn't take preorders).

The European release PS3's are mostly spoke for at this point. Sony is expecting the whole release quantity of 1 million in Europe to sell right away.

14ers

03-19-2007, 02:15 PM

From the business perspective Sony has dug themselves a huge hole. They have a system that is very impressive, but is also very expensive and doesn't offer features that people actually find a need for (see Vista).
I like HD movies. Welcome to 2007!:D

In 2007 Sony has a huge hit on their hand with their Blu-ray format. 1080P TVs are now becomming standard in every home and Blu-ray discs are becomming available everywhere. Sony needed to put a Blu-ray player in their gaming machine to push their Blu-ray format. Without the built in Blu-ray player Sony might have sold more PS3s, but lost the HD DVD race.

They may have dug themselves a huge hole, but if they can win the next movie format it will mean huge numbers for them down the road. If Blu-ray is here to stay so is the PS3.

I bought my Blu-ray player and received a free PS3 with it.:)

Eaglesfan27

03-19-2007, 02:26 PM

The hi-def DVD movement seems unlikely to take off in the same manner that the DVD market originally did, because DVDs replaced a format that was cubersome and prone to error, while hi-def DVD replaces a format that people already like. This will limit the appeal of the PS3 as a movie device.

Very interesting take and one that I think has some merit. I remember how impressed I was with the jump from VHS to DVD's and no longer having to rewind, have issues with adjusting tracking, etc. Mrs. Eaglesfan and I talked about it and we just aren't in a hurry to jump into the HD Movie market until a) we see which format wins and b) it becomes more reasonably priced. We could afford to do so now, but there is not that big motivation like there was with VHS to DVD's because even standard DVD's already look great on our HDTV which has upscaling as one of its features.

If we buy a PS3 this year (which is still possible), it won't be because we want the Blu Ray player.

dawgfan

03-19-2007, 02:32 PM

I like HD movies. Welcome to 2007!:D

In 2007 Sony has a huge hit on their hand with their Blu-ray format. 1080P TVs are now becomming standard in every home and Blu-ray discs are becomming available everywhere. Sony needed to put a Blu-ray player in their gaming machine to push their Blu-ray format. Without the built in Blu-ray player Sony might have sold more PS3s, but lost the HD DVD race.

They may have dug themselves a huge hole, but if they can win the next movie format it will mean huge numbers for them down the road. If Blu-ray is here to stay so is the PS3.
They will very likely win the battle with HD-DVD in the new DVD format war. But the question is, how long will that victory last? Broadband connections are becoming the norm for most households, and services are now available for consumers to download HD movies (as with Xbox Live, and others to come). I wonder if winning this format war will end up being profitable for Sony in the end given the hit they're taking on the PS3 side currently, and the possibility that downloading movies (legally) will carve deeply into sales of Blu-Ray DVD's.

BrianD

03-19-2007, 02:37 PM

Very interesting take and one that I think has some merit. I remember how impressed I was with the jump from VHS to DVD's and no longer having to rewind, have issues with adjusting tracking, etc. Mrs. Eaglesfan and I talked about it and we just aren't in a hurry to jump into the HD Movie market until a) we see which format wins and b) it becomes more reasonably priced. We could afford to do so now, but there is not that big motivation like there was with VHS to DVD's because even standard DVD's already look great on our HDTV which has upscaling as one of its features.

If we buy a PS3 this year (which is still possible), it won't be because we want the Blu Ray player.

I am very much of the same opinion. I was an early adopter for DVDs and have a pretty big library now, but I don't really see the need to jump to a HD format. There is a small increase in picture quality and the HD-DVD player I saw had some interesting features, but the gain in quality isn't worth the price. I probably won't get a HD player until my current player dies and a new player is close to the price of a regular DVD player.

I also have no interest in combining a gaming console and a movie player, so the PS3/Blu-Ray combo is a negative for me.

stevew

03-19-2007, 02:45 PM

I like HD movies. Welcome to 2007!:D

In 2007 Sony has a huge hit on their hand with their Blu-ray format. 1080P TVs are now becomming standard in every home and Blu-ray discs are becomming available everywhere. Sony needed to put a Blu-ray player in their gaming machine to push their Blu-ray format. Without the built in Blu-ray player Sony might have sold more PS3s, but lost the HD DVD race.

They may have dug themselves a huge hole, but if they can win the next movie format it will mean huge numbers for them down the road. If Blu-ray is here to stay so is the PS3.

I bought my Blu-ray player and received a free PS3 with it.:)

At a retail level 1080p tv's basically can't be had for much less than 1500, and more realistically closer to 2000. We probably sell at least 15 720s for every 1080 set where I work, and that's a conservative estimate. Although the changeover in the sku of the SXRD has pretty much eliminated all of the 1080p sales over the past month. In short, far far from standard.

TroyF

03-19-2007, 03:04 PM

The European release PS3's are mostly spoke for at this point. Sony is expecting the whole release quantity of 1 million in Europe to sell right away.

It'd be a lot more interesting to debate if you didn't buy everything Sony says hook, line and sinker.

Sony expected a lot of things to happen that haven't happened yet. That's part of the entire disaster, Sony has been making false promises and spin to showcase a lot of things.

On the positive side, they shouldn't have any problems getting the million units to Europe. All they'll have to do is tak the consoles people in the US aren't buying and ship them overseas. :)

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-20-2007, 06:29 AM

It'd be a lot more interesting to debate if you didn't buy everything Sony says hook, line and sinker.

Sony expected a lot of things to happen that haven't happened yet. That's part of the entire disaster, Sony has been making false promises and spin to showcase a lot of things.

On the positive side, they shouldn't have any problems getting the million units to Europe. All they'll have to do is tak the consoles people in the US aren't buying and ship them overseas. :)

Cute comeback, but not accurate. The information has mostly come from retailers, not Sony. It doesn't take a doctorate to figure out what information is accurate and what is mostly PR talk by Sony execs.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-20-2007, 06:33 AM

At a retail level 1080p tv's basically can't be had for much less than 1500, and more realistically closer to 2000. We probably sell at least 15 720s for every 1080 set where I work, and that's a conservative estimate. Although the changeover in the sku of the SXRD has pretty much eliminated all of the 1080p sales over the past month. In short, far far from standard.

That will change in the very near future. The mandated digital switch is quickly approaching.

http://news.com.com/Digital+TV+switch+set+for+early+2009/2100-1028_3-6004429.html

There's obviously going to be a major rush during the 2008 holiday season, but I would expect a major marketing push in the 2007 holiday season by the retailers noting that the deadline is approaching and it's a good time to upgrade that old TV before it becomes useless.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-20-2007, 07:40 AM

TroyF

03-20-2007, 07:48 AM

Cute comeback, but not accurate. The information has mostly come from retailers, not Sony. It doesn't take a doctorate to figure out what information is accurate and what is mostly PR talk by Sony execs.

Actually, it seems to for the Sony Fanboys who keep trying to pretend this launch has been anything but an unmitigated disaster.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-20-2007, 08:00 AM

Actually, it seems to for the Sony Fanboys who keep trying to pretend this launch has been anything but an unmitigated disaster.

Perhaps you have better information? The information currently out there is that all 1 million of the European launch units will sell out. By all means, if you have better information, post it rather than continuing to make this into some sort of a PS3 witch hunt.

Coder

03-20-2007, 08:56 AM

Scandinavian distributor for PS3 was interviewed in one of the largest newspapers today, stating that "it will be hard to get a PS3 at launch, even if you've booked in advance."

This prompted an article by another newspaper where they've contacted several major retailers asking to book a PS3 (release Friday). Just about every retailer they contacted (Webhallen.se, MediaMarkt, OnOff etc), says that if you book today, you're still guaranteed a machine.

Interesting.

Personally, I managed to get a hold of a Wii today.. been trying for the past 2 months but there simply haven't been any available. The Wii will be a nice complement to my 360, which for now is being used like once a month, and will serve more as a "fun" machine.. parties and stuff.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-20-2007, 09:00 AM

Scandinavian distributor for PS3 was interviewed in one of the largest newspapers today, stating that "it will be hard to get a PS3 at launch, even if you've booked in advance."

This prompted an article by another newspaper where they've contacted several major retailers asking to book a PS3 (release Friday). Just about every retailer they contacted (Webhallen.se, MediaMarkt, OnOff etc), says that if you book today, you're still guaranteed a machine.

Interesting.

Yep, that's generally what's been circulated through the media. Two separate outlets in southern Europe said that roughly 95% of the PS3's are pre-ordered and they expect any leftovers to quickly be purchased on launch day. Sounds pretty reasonable given the input of the European posters in this and other threads. Obviously, they'll have the firm numbers later this week to remove any question about the actual number.

TroyF

03-20-2007, 09:14 AM

Perhaps you have better information? The information currently out there is that all 1 million of the European launch units will sell out. By all means, if you have better information, post it rather than continuing to make this into some sort of a PS3 witch hunt.

Yeah, I'm making it out to be a witch hunt. Reporting actual facts is always a witch hunt, right? The post right below this has very similar information to the US launch. The distributor saying all PS3's are accounted for and then papers saying if you order one today, you are locked into getting one on Friday.

The two statements don't go hand in hand. If they are all spoken for or only a handfull will be left, how could they have contacted three major distributors and have confirmation that if you order one today, you have one on Friday? How is that possible?

Lets face it, the Europe launch is likely to be very similar to the US launch. A huge opening couple of months followed quickly by tons of systems being on the shelf. It hasn't went well in Japan or the US and suddenly Europe is going to be the savior?

Please, spin that anyway you like, it's insanity. You do realize everytime you call me out as a Sony witch hunt specialist, people have the ability to go back and look at old posts and see where I've said I'll eventually pick up a PS3, right? I mean, if I were a Sony hater, why would I ever consider picking up one?

Stop getting defensive and start realizing they've botched this. They may recover, they may become #1 again in a year or two. (I think that's about as likely as a comet smashing into the Earth, but anything is possible) Sony lost Devil May Cry series as an exclusive yesterday. The exclusives are dropping off the map, left and right. Things are getting worse and worse for them by the day.

The spin factor is insane right now. We'll see how Sony actually does in Europe. The key is two or three months from tomorrow, not tomorrow. (Though anything less than a full sellout by Saturday morning should point to some serious signs of doom for anyone who isn't drinking spiked kool-aid.)

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-20-2007, 09:45 AM

TroyF

03-20-2007, 10:14 AM

Interesting. Devil May Cry 4 is no longer a PS3 exclusive. There's also rumors that Capcom is going to make Dead Rising and Lost Planet non-exclusive as well. Certainly not shocking as they stand to make a lot more money by putting their games on both systems as opposed to one.

My guess is that since the Sony execs have already said they don't plan on paying money to secure exclusives, the third party developers are more likely to publish on both systems. I doubt the publishers would get very much for exclusives from Microsoft since there's no way to force a bidding war without Sony in the mix. Less exclusives is probably a good thing for gamers overall as it would decrease the need for multiple system purchases.

Hey, something we agree on. Now, for the million dollar question: As MS has a series of exclusive titles and has an install base 9x what the PS3 currently has (not to mention outselling it by a 2 to 1 margain last month), who has the advantage if gamers only need one system?

Trick question there. . . The Wii is the answer, because they have the cheapest system, is the most family friendly system nad have a ton of exlusive titles on the way.

Either way, in that scenario, Sony is in a hole. They make mis-step after mis-step and if I criticize it I'm on a witch hunt?

When is God of War 3 due out anyway?

FWIW: If that trade 10 games and you get the system for $349 deal were to be widespread, I'd own a PS3 about the time The Show comes out. That would probably be enough to price me into getting the system.

Eaglesfan27

03-20-2007, 12:28 PM

FYI to European posters who are buying or considering buying the PS3. The backward compatibility list is now available. 1,845 of the 2,451 PS2 titles will be playable on the PS3 with more expected to be added in upcoming firmware updates.

http://faq.eu.playstation.com/bc

Playable but with issues. Here is an interesting article on gamespot. Many of the games will have "minor issues." Others, will have "noticable issues" and there are some big names that won't be playable at all.

Gamespot's article:

One of the big issues around the launch of Sony's next-generation console in Europe has been that of how many PlayStation 2 titles would be playable (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6166312.html) after the removal of the Emotion Engine from the PlayStation 3. Sony has now sought to answer that question with the launch of a Web site (http://faq.eu.playstation.com/bc/) that lists all playable titles.

The PlayStation 3 launches on Friday, March 23, in Europe and will require a firmware upgrade (to version 1.60) in order to play the games listed on the Sony site. The upgrade will be available from midnight on Thursday on both the PlayStation Network and PlayStation.com (http://www.playstation.com/). It will also be available on a disc for those without Internet access, according to Sony's statement today.

According to "semi-official" blog Three Speech (http://www.threespeech.com/), 1,782 out of 2,451 PS2 games available in the SCEE region will work on the PS3. Sony's database uses a rating system where three squares mean that the game works with "no known issues to date," two squares mean that the game will play on the PS3 with "some minor issues," and one square means the game will work but with "noticeable" issues. Games which are not on the list do not currently work with the PS3.

Games which will work with the first firmware update, 1.60, include The Sims, The Sims 2, Half-Life, God of War, Quake 3, Cars, and Dragon Quest VII: Journey of the Cursed King. Games which will play with "noticeable issues" include Final Fantasy X, Metal Gear Solid 3, Kingdom Hearts, Canis Canem Edit (Bully in the US), many of the Need for Speed Titles, FIFA 07, and Pro Evolution Soccer 4, 5, and 6.

Titles which do not currently work at all include Guitar Hero I and II, Tekken Tag Tournament, Test Drive Unlimited, Black, and Hitman: Blood Money.

David Reeves, president of SCEE, said in a statement: "Our engineers have been working overtime, and have succeeded in delivering a significant number of playable PS2 titles for the European launch. We will be adding additional titles to this list in future firmware upgrades, but as we have made clear before, in the future our resources will be increasingly focused on developing new services and entertainment features exclusively for PS3, rather than on delivering PS2 backwards compatibility."

Arles

03-20-2007, 12:35 PM

That will change in the very near future. The mandated digital switch is quickly approaching.

http://news.com.com/Digital+TV+switch+set+for+early+2009/2100-1028_3-6004429.html

There's obviously going to be a major rush during the 2008 holiday season, but I would expect a major marketing push in the 2007 holiday season by the retailers noting that the deadline is approaching and it's a good time to upgrade that old TV before it becomes useless.
This is a pretty silly argument. According to the article cited, over 85% of TV customers won't be impacted. And the ones that will are mostly elderly and low-income people that have ancient TVs. The odds that these people go out and buy a $2000 1080p TV are slim to none.

All that will result from this is a bunch of older people upgrading their 1970s rabbit ear TVs with a cheap $50-70 set capable of digital.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-20-2007, 12:35 PM

Titles which do not currently work at all include Guitar Hero I and II, Tekken Tag Tournament, Test Drive Unlimited, Black, and Hitman: Blood Money.

Guitar Hero is obviously the one big one there. Currently, you have to get an adapter to even get the Guitar Hero controller to work on the PS3 since the PS3 only has USB inputs. I held onto my PS2 for the sole reason that they didn't have a resolution for the Guitar Hero issue. I'm sure they'll resolve the problem at some point in a future firmware update, but I wasn't going to miss out on playing Guitar Hero until that point.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-20-2007, 12:37 PM

This is a pretty silly argument. According to the article cited, over 85% of TV customers won't be impacted. And the ones that will are mostly elderly and low-income people that have ancient TVs. The odds that these people go out and buy a $2000 1080p TV are slim to none.

All that will result from this is a bunch of older people upgrading their 1970s rabbit ear TVs with a cheap $50-70 set capable of digital.

I should have been more specific. I didn't realize the discussion was solely about 1080P TV's. I was referring just to an upgrade to digital TV's (720 and up). You're certainly correct.

Arles

03-20-2007, 12:40 PM

Guitar Hero is obviously the one big one there. Currently, you have to get an adapter to even get the Guitar Hero controller to work on the PS3 since the PS3 only has USB inputs. I held onto my PS2 for the sole reason that they didn't have a resolution for the Guitar Hero issue. I'm sure they'll resolve the problem at some point in a future firmware update, but I wasn't going to miss out on playing Guitar Hero until that point.
I'm pretty sure you can't get guitar hero to work on the PS3 because of the new "playstation" button. Either some independent company needs to make a guitar with this new PS3 button or you have the wait for the PS3 version. There have been about 100 threads from people who have the PS3, PS2 version of GH, PS2 guitar and the adapter and the game won't play because you can't get the PS3 to acknowledge the guitar as a controller (no playstation button).

Here's the best summary (although you can numerous others by googling "PS3 Guitar Hero"):

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070302015202AAESr4z

Can you pay guitar hero on playstation 3?
No, as there is no way to connect the guitar controller to it. The guitar controller absolutely needs a wired PS Controller plug, and the PS3 having only wireless input, doesn't provide one.

So, the game will start, and you can play with the standard Sixaxis controller, however this is very awkward and is no fun.

Ironically enough, I own both the PS3 and 360 and I am looking forward to finally being able to play Guitar Hero in April when the XBox 360 version comes out. Why Sony didn't work to immediately release GH for the PS3 on lauch (or atleast a modified guitar that works with the PS3) is a mystery to me.

Eaglesfan27

03-20-2007, 12:41 PM

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-20-2007, 12:48 PM

I'm pretty sure you can't get guitar hero to work on the PS3 because of the new "playstation" button. Either some independent company needs to make a guitar with this new PS3 button or you have the wait for the PS3 version. There have been about 100 threads from people who have the PS3, PS2 version of GH, PS2 guitar and the adapter and the game won't play because you can't get the PS3 to acknowledge the guitar as a controller (no playstation button).

I know there is a PS2 to USB adapter that people were trying out, but you may very well be correct that it is not an option. I figured they'd only offer me a few dollars on my PS2 for trade in anyway, so it was worth it to hold on to it solely to play Guitar Hero.

They put out the 360 version pretty quickly. Given the revenue possibilities of song downloads/expansion packs onto the game, I'd be shocked if they didn't have something ready by October at the latest for the PS3.

Eaglesfan27

03-20-2007, 12:55 PM

I know there is a PS2 to USB adapter that people were trying out, but you may very well be correct that it is not an option. I figured they'd only offer me a few dollars on my PS2 for trade in anyway, so it was worth it to hold on to it solely to play Guitar Hero.

They put out the 360 version pretty quickly. Given the revenue possibilities of song downloads/expansion packs onto the game, I'd be shocked if they didn't have something ready by October at the latest for the PS3.

IGN (as well as many other sites) has an article where they tried that and it did not work. Also, from a quick search, it doesn't appear that a version of Guitar Hero 2 has been announced for the PS3.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-20-2007, 01:01 PM

IGN (as well as many other sites) has an article where they tried that and it did not work. Also, from a quick search, it doesn't appear that a version of Guitar Hero 2 has been announced for the PS3.

I doubt they'll release the same game that's already out on the PS2. The more likely result is that they put out a new version. Rumors are that they'll start going to calling the new versions by the songs (i.e. Guitar Hero: '90s Edition) or something to that effect. You are correct that nothing is announced at this point, but Bill Harris and others have been hinting that more games are already in the works for both the 360 and PS3.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-20-2007, 01:28 PM

Analyst article predicting price drop of $100 for PS3 in October.......

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/20/technology/personaltech/playstation/index.htm?section=money_email_alerts

Eaglesfan27

03-22-2007, 09:08 AM

Very interesting comments from the president of the French Division of Sony. The loss of Exclusivity of FF I think would hurt the PS3 a fair bit. I know that it would be one game that would probably push us over the brink if we were still debating on a PS3 when it is released and there are other exclusives I want. Here is the article from Gamespot:

Sony: FFXIII PS3 exclusivity under discussion

Sony France executive says in interview that Square Enix's latest installment may not be exclusive to the console after all.

By Emma Boyes (http://www.gamespot.com/users/Emma_UK/), GameSpot UK (http://uk.gamespot.com/) Posted Mar 22, 2007 6:36 am PT

One more platform-exclusive title may be going multiplatform, it has been revealed. The latest news appears to be that Square Enix's latest epic role-playing game, Final Fantasy XIII, may follow other titles--including Saints Row, Assassin's Creed, and Devil May Cry 4--that have now been announced as appearing on at least one other platform as well.
Sony Computer Entertainment France president Georges Fornay dropped the bombshell in an interview with French-language newspaper Les Dernières Nouvelles d'Alsace (http://www.dna.fr/20070321/france/20070321_DNA006098.html) (subscription required). He said, "The development costs of games have exploded, and it has become more difficult to have exclusives, outside of our own games. But we have for launch day [in France] 30 games, including MotorStorm, Resistance: Fall of Man, and Virtua Fighter 5. Moreover, we are expecting 200 games [for the PS3] by the end of 2007... As far as Final Fantasy XIII goes, I can tell you that the exclusivity is in discussion."

Fornay went on to say that he believed that the PS3 would be particularly successful in France, and that there had been approximately 60,000 pre-orders made (compared to 40,000 made for the Xbox 360, and 75,000 for the Wii). France will be getting approximately 150,000 of the one million consoles allocated to PAL regions.

He also answered questions about backwards compatibility for the next-gen console, responding to fears that the console would not support many PS2 titles without the Emotion Engine. Fornay said, "Now, if you ask me whether this was a blow to the launch, I would say that [Sony] would have done better to be sure that the console would be completely backwards compatible before announcing it. But hey, when it becomes clear what the PS3 is capable of, gamers won't really fancy playing PS2 [games] anymore..."

Square Enix had not returned calls to comment as of press time.

bronconick

03-22-2007, 12:45 PM

Square taking Final Fantasy to other consoles slams the door shut on this round of consoles, IMO.

For comparison, the first FF on the PS2 sold 2 million copies in 4 days in Japan, and broke a million in the United States in about 5 or 6 weeks. They shipped 1.5 million copies of FF12 to the US for the release and those sold quickly as well.

Neuqua

03-22-2007, 12:57 PM

Yikes, agreed.

I loved my PS2, by far the best purchase I had ever made and I got thousands of hours invested in it. Due to sheer brand loyalty I have waited until things progressed in this round of the console wars, but Sony losing FF (as well as all the other exclusives that made the PS2 so dominant), I do not see how I can pick the PS3 of the 360 objectively.

Tyrith

03-22-2007, 01:18 PM

The fleeing of the exclusives just shows how the industry itself is already bracing for the PS3 to crash and burn. If these gaming companies thought that the PS3 was going to sell tons of games they wouldn't be running away in a manner that I'm sure Sony does not like, seeking refuge in the user base that is the 360. The PS3 might still sell quite a few units as a movie device, potentially, if/when Blu-ray wins the war, although I seriously doubt the movie device demand will be as strong as with the PS2. However, even if that's the case, Sony still loses just on sales, because they aren't making money hand over fist on hardware sales like Nintendo because everything is so expensive to manufacture. They need people to buy games in order to make back their hardware losses, and it just doesn't look like it's going to happen.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-22-2007, 01:23 PM

Sony: FFXIII PS3 exclusivity under discussion

Sony France executive says in interview that Square Enix's latest installment may not be exclusive to the console after all.

He said, "The development costs of games have exploded, and it has become more difficult to have exclusives, outside of our own games. But we have for launch day [in France] 30 games, including MotorStorm, Resistance: Fall of Man, and Virtua Fighter 5. Moreover, we are expecting 200 games [for the PS3] by the end of 2007... As far as Final Fantasy XIII goes, I can tell you that the exclusivity is in discussion."

Call me crazy here, but I'm not totally sure that Gamespot isn't jumping to conclusions a bit (or maybe just the readers of the article). He's saying that the exclusive nature of FF is in discussion. To me, that says nothing more than Square and Sony are still in discussions concerning exclusivity.

I sincerly doubt that Sony will let FF go multi-console for the reasons a previous poster cited about Japan sales alone. My guess is that Square is trying to milk Sony for extra money to keep it exclusive because it is in a good negotiating position, but I have no doubt that they'll reach an agreement.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-22-2007, 01:27 PM

The fleeing of the exclusives just shows how the industry itself is already bracing for the PS3 to crash and burn. If these gaming companies thought that the PS3 was going to sell tons of games they wouldn't be running away in a manner that I'm sure Sony does not like, seeking refuge in the user base that is the 360.

If you can reach this steadfast conclusion based on an article stating nothing more than Square and Sony are negotiating the exclusivity of a game, you should become an industry analyst. Did you suggest impending doom for Xbox Live because of the theft rumors yesterday?

BrianD

03-22-2007, 01:41 PM

I sincerly doubt that Sony will let FF go multi-console for the reasons a previous poster cited about Japan sales alone. My guess is that Square is trying to milk Sony for extra money to keep it exclusive because it is in a good negotiating position, but I have no doubt that they'll reach an agreement.

Square is in a very strong position here. They are negotiating an exclusivity deal with Sony (who didn't come out of the gates strong) while having all the leverage of the 360 base. Sony is basically going to have to pay a fee equal to the revenue that could be earned by selling to the 360 crowd. It would be a huge boost to sales of the PS3 if this remains exclusive, and a huge problem if it doesn't.

The added problem is if Square is allowed to rape Sony on the exclusivity deal, expect other developers to get the same idea. They won't have the same leverage as Square, but they will have some.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-22-2007, 01:50 PM

The added problem is if Square is allowed to rape Sony on the exclusivity deal, expect other developers to get the same idea. They won't have the same leverage as Square, but they will have some.

Totally agree with this. To some extent, Sony may have been better off keeping a few of the exclusive deals it let go to reduce the leverage that Square has in this instance. By now having only the main cornerstone franchises left, they may have to sell their soul just to keep FF and MGS in the house. I don't see either leaving the Sony console, but it's going to cost Sony a pretty penny in the meanwhile.

sabotai

03-22-2007, 01:59 PM

Final Fantasy is one of the reasons I'm planning on getting a PS3 at some point. If they lose that exclusive, they lose the biggest reason for me to buy their console.

BrianD

03-22-2007, 02:07 PM

Totally agree with this. To some extent, Sony may have been better off keeping a few of the exclusive deals it let go to reduce the leverage that Square has in this instance. By now having only the main cornerstone franchises left, they may have to sell their soul just to keep FF and MGS in the house. I don't see either leaving the Sony console, but it's going to cost Sony a pretty penny in the meanwhile.

Sony does still need to keep some level of profitability if they want to push their Blu-Ray standard. At some point the soul may not be worth enough to keep things going. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-22-2007, 02:10 PM

Final Fantasy is one of the reasons I'm planning on getting a PS3 at some point. If they lose that exclusive, they lose the biggest reason for me to buy their console.

Take that feeling times 10 and that's what it's like in Japan. Sony will sell 500,000-1M units in the month after the release of the FF game easily. They go nuts for that franchise.

BrianD

03-22-2007, 02:13 PM

Take that feeling times 10 and that's what it's like in Japan. Sony will sell 500,000-1M units in the month after the release of the FF game easily. They go nuts for that franchise.

Since Sony does so much better in Japan than Microsoft does, they might do that even is a shared model....or at least close to it.

sabotai

03-22-2007, 02:27 PM

Since Sony does so much better in Japan than Microsoft does, they might do that even is a shared model....or at least close to it.

Probably. The 360 was DOA in Japan. No one there is going to buy a 360 to play FF, they'll still buy the PS3. The 14 people in Japan who have a 360 won't make a dent in that.

Eaglesfan27

03-22-2007, 02:30 PM

Call me crazy here, but I'm not totally sure that Gamespot isn't jumping to conclusions a bit (or maybe just the readers of the article). He's saying that the exclusive nature of FF is in discussion. To me, that says nothing more than Square and Sony are still in discussions concerning exclusivity.

I sincerly doubt that Sony will let FF go multi-console for the reasons a previous poster cited about Japan sales alone. My guess is that Square is trying to milk Sony for extra money to keep it exclusive because it is in a good negotiating position, but I have no doubt that they'll reach an agreement.

I see zero reason for any Sony executive to be commenting on the possibility of losing FF exclusivity except to brace the public for that reality.

dawgfan

03-22-2007, 03:18 PM

I see zero reason for any Sony executive to be commenting on the possibility of losing FF exclusivity except to brace the public for that reality.
Quoted for truth.

sabotai

03-22-2007, 03:27 PM

Well, the guy might just be an idiot. It is France afterall. (OH SNAP!)

Eaglesfan27

03-23-2007, 04:10 PM

Per a new gamespot article, Ace Combat 6 is officially coming to the 360. Before this, the series was never on a non Sony Console. It will also be the first version to have online MP.

Icy

03-23-2007, 06:27 PM

Mixed feelings in the European release today:

France, a complete disaster:
http://www.playfuls.com/news_06689_PS3s_French_Debut_A_Total_Disaster_95_of_Consoles_Left_Unsold.html

UK, good success:
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/775/775342p1.html

Spain, mixed feelings for what i'm readng at the Spanish news and console forums. The biggest proof is that most of the mega stores have tons of PS3 available when all them were supossed to be preordered and to be sold today.

The $800 price range plus only 5 games available in the release day in Spain didn't help at all.

KWhit

03-23-2007, 06:35 PM

The biggest proof is that most of the mega stores have tons of PS3 available when all them were supossed to be preordered and to be sold today.

Ouch. On release day?

Icy

03-23-2007, 06:52 PM

Ouch. On release day?

Yes, and not tons of buyers waiting the whole night at the doors as it was expected.

Again reading at the forums, the problem is the high price but mainly the lack of titles available on release day, most of the shops only had:

Games:
- Motorstorm
- F1 2006
- Resistance

Movies:
- Hellboy
- Ultraviolet

Also have on mind that we don't have almost Blue Ray movies here in Spain by now, so the Ps3 has nothing to play with by now, of course things should improve in the following months.

BrianD

03-23-2007, 07:46 PM

UK, good success:
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/775/775342p1.html

Sales are steady and many stores think they may sell out by Monday? What happened to reports that all available units were pre-ordered?

sabotai

03-23-2007, 08:07 PM

Sales are steady and many stores think they may sell out by Monday? What happened to reports that all available units were pre-ordered?

Probably all units available to be pre-ordered were. I'm pretty sure most, if not all, places only allow for a certain amount of their stock to be pre-ordered, so that they have units to sell on release day. But sell out by Monday? That's not too good considering the standard nowadays is to sell out by noon on release day.

Eaglesfan27

03-23-2007, 09:48 PM

Wow. 95% unsold in France? I was reading that Sony was giving away nice HDTV's at some of their stores with the PS3 last night, too.

heardie

03-24-2007, 12:08 AM

Looks like a slow launch in Australia as well
From The Age:

Crowds go mild at PlayStation launch

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Danny Zarka is first in line to collect his PS3 in Sydney, which was handed to him personally by Sony's local managing director, Michael Ephraim, and Myer CEO Bernie Brookes.

Danny Zarka is first in line to collect his PS3 in Sydney, which was handed to him personally by Sony's local managing director, Michael Ephraim, and Myer CEO Bernie Brookes.
Photo: AFP
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* PS3: first impressions

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Asher Moses
March 23, 2007 - 6:46AM

The launch of Sony's PlayStation 3 games console got off to a feeble start last night with officials, media and security outnumbering customers for most of the evening.

Over 500 retailers around the country threw open their doors as the clock struck 12:00am, expecting the frenzy that accompanied the games console's overseas debuts.

But most stores were virtually deserted, despite the 20,000 pre-orders Sony said it had received.

Even at the official launch event held at Myer's Pitt Street store in Sydney's CBD and attended by Sony's local managing director, Michael Ephraim, media and security outnumbered PS3 fans until at least 11:00pm.

At midnight, about 40 PS3 buyers had arrived to collect their consoles, causing distress for the army of camera crews who turned up expecting to capture launch mayhem.

Desperate producers unashamedly asked the crowd to fake excitement when the cameras were rolling, while a team from 2Day FM let out bogus cheers to convince their radio listeners that a launch extravaganza was underway.

The scene was a stark contrast to the US launch in November last year, where one man was shot by thieves and fights broke out over limited stock.

In Britain, where the PS3 was also launched today, two major Oxford Street stores in London - Game and HMV - cancelled their launch events amid police fears of muggings.

Danny Zarka, 31, was first in line to collect his PS3, which was handed to him personally by Mr Ephraim and Myer CEO Bernie Brookes.

The advertising executive from Pyrmont was shocked because he had arrived after 9pm, yet still found himself at the front of the queue.

"I'm surprised there aren't more people here, I thought the place would be packed," he said.

The PS3 launches with a total of 30 games, each with a recommended retail price of $99.95.

One of those games is Gran Turismo: HD, which Sony is offering free - as a download from the Playstation Network - to all PS3 buyers.

And Sony said the first 20,000 people to register their PS3 online would receive a free copy of the latest James Bond movie Casino Royale on Blu-ray disc.

From today, Sony will launch into its $6 million marketing campaign, which it hopes will convince the public that the PS3 is not just a games machine but an all-in-one home entertainment system.

The campaign will stress the inclusion of a high-definition Blu-ray disc player, sleek design, 60GB hard drive, web browser and, most importantly, the PS3's ability to act as a multimedia hub for organising photos, music and movies.

This is crucial if Sony is to convince consumers that the PS3's $999 price tag is justified, in the face of the $650 Xbox 360 and $399 Nintendo Wii.

A Sony spokeswoman said: "The marketing tag line for PlayStation 3 is 'This is Living' and you'll see this develop with time to include broader messaging beyond gaming enthusiasts; after launch we will begin our approach to communicate with entertainment enthusiasts and beyond."

Travis Johnson, a veteran advertising executive at Universal McCann, was partly responsible for the Xbox 360's launch marketing campaign. He described Sony's $6 million budget as "sizeable", and said the Xbox 360 only launched with a $1 million marketing spend.

The PS3 was originally slated for release locally on November 17, but this date was pushed back to today due to production delays.

It has meant the Wii and Xbox 360 have a significant head-start in the next-generation console wars - the Wii has been on sale since early December, while the Xbox 360 has its first birthday next week.

Another potential stumbling block for Sony is the fact that it has priced the PS3 higher in Australia than it has overseas. The console sells for just ¥60,000 ($630) in Japan and $US599 ($740) in the US.

Mr Ephraim said in an interview last month the higher price was justified because factors such as Australia's currency exchange rate and small population size when compared with the US led to a higher cost of doing business.

Owners of the previous PlayStation, the PS2, should also bear in mind that PS2 games will not necessarily be compatible with the PS3.

A full list of compatible games can be found here - 1782 PS2 titles are listed, which represent the majority of the 2308 PS2 games that Sony shipped to Australia.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/games/playtime-for-midnights-children/2007/03/23/1174153291466.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

gstelmack

03-24-2007, 07:46 AM

So much for Europe being rabid for the PS3...

Oh, and I think TroyF should get one free shot at an "I told you so" with no one getting ticked at him (for his comments that Sony made the exact same claims before the N.A. launch when everyone talked about how great the Euro launch was shaping up thanks to preorders).

stevew

03-24-2007, 10:39 AM

Euro sales looking good in pre-order.

KWhit

03-24-2007, 10:48 AM

Euro sales looking good in pre-order.

Heh.

Icy

03-24-2007, 10:59 AM

I'm just back from a local Superstore and they had docens of PS3 sitting there and just two kids playing on the demo stand. It's for sure not what it was expected to be.

I must admit it was really hard for me to resist and to pick one myself. My wife even told me to pick a PS3 if i wanted and i have been really tempted...

I'm really pissed right now, i loved the Xbox360 console, some of the games, but was really mad at not being able to play USA games like NCAA and College Hoops. This is forcing me to buy a PS3, imho an overpriced console with a blue ray player that i won't use like in a year or two. If i end buying it will be because MLB the show exclusive and because the USA games that i can import for the region free PS3, not because i like the console. Too bad that the 360 is region locked, else it would be the perfect console for me.

TroyF

03-24-2007, 12:06 PM

Cute comeback, but not accurate. The information has mostly come from retailers, not Sony. It doesn't take a doctorate to figure out what information is accurate and what is mostly PR talk by Sony execs.

Just throwing this back up a bit. The information was CLEARLY coming from Sony. A retailer would have no desire to say they were sold out and prevent people from ordering one when they knew there would be tons on the shelf.

Yet another disaster in a sea of disasters for Sony.

This may go down as the worst console launch of all-time. It's about time the Sony execs stopped acting like the Iraqi PR director and more like a company that needs to address how pathetic this has went.

Glengoyne

03-24-2007, 11:47 PM

Pencil me in as one of those late game buyers of the PS-2.

I've been playing Culdcept at pretty much every rare opportunity. A great game, if you haven't tried it.

cartman

03-24-2007, 11:54 PM

I'm really pissed right now, i loved the Xbox360 console, some of the games, but was really mad at not being able to play USA games like NCAA and College Hoops. This is forcing me to buy a PS3, imho an overpriced console with a blue ray player that i won't use like in a year or two. If i end buying it will be because MLB the show exclusive and because the USA games that i can import for the region free PS3, not because i like the console. Too bad that the 360 is region locked, else it would be the perfect console for me.

I'd hold off for a bit. I'm hearing rumblings that the Euro PS3s are having issues playing NTSC (ie. North American) games, due to the fact they changed the video scaling in the Euro editions of the PS3.

Ryan S

03-25-2007, 09:16 AM

There are two video game stores within 5 miles of me (in the UK) and both had PS3s in stock yesterday. I think the $800+ price tag is scaring a lot of people away from the system.

The Wii is still impossible to buy without reserving one in advance.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-25-2007, 11:10 AM

Just throwing this back up a bit. The information was CLEARLY coming from Sony. A retailer would have no desire to say they were sold out and prevent people from ordering one when they knew there would be tons on the shelf.

Totally incorrect. The information was from 'Game' (video game chain in Europe), not Sony. Whether the statement was incorrect or not, that's one thing but it was not from Sony.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-25-2007, 11:26 AM

Wow. 95% unsold in France? I was reading that Sony was giving away nice HDTV's at some of their stores with the PS3 last night, too.

That's totally inaccurate as well. That number was at the event that was being held in freezing rain on a worknight. The sales in the country itself were totally different, but we'll obviously have to wait for the numbers to be released for accuracy. Sony picked a horrible night to have an outdoor launch when other consoles were available at the same time at indoor stores. I'm an early adopter when it come to systems, but if I have the option to buy a system outside in freezing rain or sit indoors and wait for the place to open, I'm taking the indoor location.

Eaglesfan27

03-25-2007, 11:34 AM

I suppose our European contingent who are reporting that there are dozens of PS3's on the shelves a few days after launch are also inaccurate?

KWhit

03-25-2007, 12:43 PM

I suppose our European contingent who are reporting that there are dozens of PS3's on the shelves a few days after launch are also inaccurate?

There were hurricanes at those stores. That's all.

BrianD

03-25-2007, 02:10 PM

The European release PS3's are mostly spoke for at this point. Sony is expecting the whole release quantity of 1 million in Europe to sell right away.

I would assume most European retailers are closed by now for the weekend. I'd be curious to hear how easy the PS3s are to find now that release weekend has come and gone.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-25-2007, 03:01 PM

I suppose our European contingent who are reporting that there are dozens of PS3's on the shelves a few days after launch are also inaccurate?

I don't doubt that there are some available. As I said in a previous post, I expected 750K to sell on launch day with the other ones moving pretty quickly. Judging from early reports, the stores are indicating a 70-75% rate of sales of total units. Given a 1M launch total, 750K was probably pretty accurate.

As far as Sony and their 1M sales point, that pretty much speaks for the execs. They haven't hit much of anything on target in their estimates.

spleen1015

03-25-2007, 03:42 PM

I think I am going to be buying a PS2 soon. I got my son GoW2 for good grades and it is skipping on him. I had 2 Sony DVD players start doing this in the same week, making me think it was DVDs.

So, I will be contributing to those April numbers. :)

Daimyo

03-25-2007, 04:40 PM

Count me as one who recently purchased a PS2. I always knew I would eventually pick up a PS2, and the the desire for a new slim profile DVD player for the bedroom and Circuit City having discounts on all PS2 accessories last week finally tipped the scale. In the past week I purchased:

PS2 (130)
vertical stand (15)
remote control (15)
extra controller (20)
memory card (15)
Component cable (20)
carrying bag (20)
Dragon Quest 8 (20)
Kingdom Hearts (20)
God of War (20)
Guitar Hero 2 w/ controller (80)
Guitar Hero (40)
Karaoke Revolution Party w/ microphone (my wife loves Karaoke so this helped with the sell of it all) (40)
Karaoke Revolution AI w/ microphone (50)
Karaoke CMT (30)
Dynasty Warriors 4 (15)
Xenosaga 2 (15)
Grand Theft Auto Trilogy (30)
Lego Star Wars (20)

All that totals up to equal the cost of a PS3 with no games or accessories ($600) and lets me put off looking for a Wii until they're readily available in a few months.

sterlingice

03-25-2007, 08:35 PM

That's pretty nuts. I bought a PS2 with 10 games including the aforementioned DQ8, KH, and Xenosaga 2 as well as spare controller and mem card for $150 on ebay a couple of months ago. This is a time where you can be getting stuff on the cheap quite easily.

SI

TroyF

03-25-2007, 09:43 PM

Totally incorrect. The information was from 'Game' (video game chain in Europe), not Sony. Whether the statement was incorrect or not, that's one thing but it was not from Sony.

Yeah, it is correct. I don't care what the newspapers are supposedly reporting. NO COMPANY is going to come out and say something is sold out if you can still buy it. It's kind of hard to make money on something when you tell people who want to purchase that it's gone.

It was either Sony execs giving the information themselves or it was Sony behind the scenes threatening anyone who dared utter a negative word that they'd take them off the "A" vendor list.

Every person in Europe in this thread says there are PS3's on the shelf and Wii's are impossible to get. 750k? Please. They would have had to have sold 3/4 of the available machines to do that. They will be lucky to have 500k in sales for launch month in Australia and Europe combined. And if US and Japan history is any indication, it only gets worse the next four months from there.

BrianD

03-25-2007, 10:58 PM

Think sales would increase if they packaged a new Elmo doll with the systems? A package of two can't-miss items has to be better than one, right?

Fidatelo

03-26-2007, 10:47 PM

That's totally inaccurate as well. That number was at the event that was being held in freezing rain on a worknight. The sales in the country itself were totally different, but we'll obviously have to wait for the numbers to be released for accuracy. Sony picked a horrible night to have an outdoor launch when other consoles were available at the same time at indoor stores. I'm an early adopter when it come to systems, but if I have the option to buy a system outside in freezing rain or sit indoors and wait for the place to open, I'm taking the indoor location.

This is the lamest statement I've seen you make yet (in a thread that is chock full of them). It's been sadly proven that people will stand outside stores in all kinds of inclement weather to get items at launch that are really hot. Hell, on the release day of WoW tonnes of people stood in line outside our local Best Buy in -25 temperatures to get a game that would be freely available in the morning in every electronics store, with no threat of running out. That was also a work night. And it was just an expansion to an existing game.

dawgfan

03-27-2007, 01:51 AM

http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/war.in.iraq/9apr03/7310468.jpg
"The European launch of the PS3 is going fantastic!"
.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-27-2007, 06:29 AM

Every person in Europe in this thread says there are PS3's on the shelf and Wii's are impossible to get. 750k? Please. They would have had to have sold 3/4 of the available machines to do that. They will be lucky to have 500k in sales for launch month in Australia and Europe combined. And if US and Japan history is any indication, it only gets worse the next four months from there.

It appears that crow eating may be in your future, Troy. Britain numbers are in and they sold 75% of the available consoles on launch. Numbers from the other countries will likely trickle in over the coming days. It sounds like similar numbers are expected.

It has been confirmed that over 165,000 of Sony's powerhouse made their way into the homes of UK consumers. The total number of launch units available in the area was 220,000 -- that means about 75% of the systems were sold in a single weekend.

gstelmack

03-27-2007, 08:39 AM

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-27-2007, 09:20 AM

And you consider 75% of the available consoles sold on launch to be a success? Has there ever been a major console launch on a Friday where you could still find units on Sunday? Remember, as much of a failure as the PS3 has been here in the US, we still managed muggings on the launch weekend...

75% of the consoles sold was more units than the 360 or Wii sold on launch in the same country. I certainly don't think that Sony should be penalized because they managed to supply enough units to meet demand. As a consumer, I find the reduction of supply to increase demand that is often done by companies selling platforms to be a deplorable way of doing business. As a consumer, I want to get the console as soon as possible.

FWIW.....I think a better measure of the success of the launch would be a 3 month timeframe if you're comparing it to the 360 launch. Sure, Sony sold more units on launch by a good size margin over the 360 in Britain, but a 3 month comparison would allow a more accurate comparison. You could see how well the 360 sold once supply caught up after a couple of months when compared to 3 months of the PS3 being available in the same country (or region once the rest of the figures come out).

Coder

03-27-2007, 09:33 AM

For the record, was in an EB yesterday and they had two units on the shelf. This is the smallest of 3 EBs in my city and I haven't checked the other ones.

Checking Tradera today, the Swedish Net-auction site that E-bay couldn't compete with so they bought it, I see several auctions for PS3s. Starting prices range from way below retail price to way above.. ONE auction, I state again, ONE auction ending within the next 4 days, had bids on it. That one was currently about $150 below retail price.

All in all there were about 15 auctions ending within the next few days for Premium PS3s, and as I said, only ONE had bids on it.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-27-2007, 09:40 AM

All in all there were about 15 auctions ending within the next few days for Premium PS3s, and as I said, only ONE had bids on it.

Yeah, I heard about that. I'm still trying to figure out what someone was thinking when they thought that there would be auction demand for a system that had adequate supply for the launch. Even if Sony had sold out the allocation, more units would likely be on the shelf by next week.

I think that statement shows that there are at least 15 idiots in Europe and not a whole lot else. Lack of supply drives demand for auctions. When a release has more units than any previous console launch in that region, there's a pretty good chance that supply will meet demand.

gstelmack

03-27-2007, 10:37 AM

75% of the consoles sold was more units than the 360 or Wii sold on launch in the same country. I certainly don't think that Sony should be penalized because they managed to supply enough units to meet demand. As a consumer, I find the reduction of supply to increase demand that is often done by companies selling platforms to be a deplorable way of doing business. As a consumer, I want to get the console as soon as possible.

2 points:

1) Sony did not think they had enough to meet demand because they kept claiming they were all sold!

2) Microsoft did not cut supply to increase demand. Microsoft couldn't make consoles fast enough. Microsoft actually took a pretty big black eye over how long it took them to meet demand.

I do agree on the 3 month window, though. Of course, if you can only sell 75% of your consoles when you are giving away a free HDTV...

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-27-2007, 10:42 AM

2) Microsoft did not cut supply to increase demand. Microsoft couldn't make consoles fast enough. Microsoft actually took a pretty big black eye over how long it took them to meet demand.

I do agree on the 3 month window, though. Of course, if you can only sell 75% of your consoles when you are giving away a free HDTV...

Specifically, I wasn't talking about Microsoft in regards to holding off supply.

If you have a specific link stating that was widely offered for all PS3 purchases, I'd love to see it.

spleen1015

03-27-2007, 10:45 AM

When demand isn't that high, it is easy to meet, no?

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-27-2007, 10:56 AM

When demand isn't that high, it is easy to meet, no?

The demand was higher than the Wii and 360 at launch in Europe, no?

A better argument would be that Sony should have released in Europe in November like the 360 did. If they would have done that, they would have likely had supply shortages because they didn't have enough units ready to meet demand. So, in that case, critics would have chastise Sony for not having enough units to meet demand.

Don't have enough units? You screwed up by not making enough systems.

Don't sell your initial supply out because you have more units than any previous launch in that region (despite the fact that more units were sold than any previous launch in the region)? No one wanted your systems.

It's a no-win for Sony. They're doing the smart thing at this point of just selling the systems and putting out the games. As long as they can keep the duct tape on their exec's mouths, they should be fine in the long run.

TroyF

03-27-2007, 11:02 AM

It appears that crow eating may be in your future, Troy. Britain numbers are in and they sold 75% of the available consoles on launch. Numbers from the other countries will likely trickle in over the coming days. It sounds like similar numbers are expected.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but England ws the country giving away a free HDTV with the system, right? You think maybe that country would be on the high end of the scale as opposed to the low end.

I love the last line. . . it sounds like similar numbers are expected. Haven't we been over this before? A few weeks ago, the full million was expected to be sold out, right? Now it's 75%. And now, because we have about 22% of the votes counted, it's clear that they are hitting the 75% mark.

Looks like I'll eat crow? Fine, I can eat crow, I've had some in the past and will again in the future. But this launch is still an unmitigated disaster. No matter how you or Sony try to spin it.

Coder

03-27-2007, 11:11 AM

As long as they can keep the duct tape on their exec's mouths, they should be fine in the long run.

Exactly..

"Hey, come pre-order fast because we won't be offering enough machines."
"Hey, want a PS3? Be sure to be in line when the stores open, because you're not guaranteed one even if you've pre-ordered!"
"Hey, know what, I'll give you $1200 for each PS3 you find on storeshelves because THEY'RE OUT!! Really."

Seriously, if that's part of your PR-strategy, not seeing empty shelves in stores has to be considered a disappointment for Sony.

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-27-2007, 11:23 AM

Exactly..

"Hey, come pre-order fast because we won't be offering enough machines."
"Hey, want a PS3? Be sure to be in line when the stores open, because you're not guaranteed one even if you've pre-ordered!"
"Hey, know what, I'll give you $1200 for each PS3 you find on storeshelves because THEY'RE OUT!! Really."

Seriously, if that's part of your PR-strategy, not seeing empty shelves in stores has to be considered a disappointment for Sony.

The Sony execs should be drawn and quartered. Seriously, I could pick 10 posters in this thread randomly (even including Troy ;) ) and I have a pretty good feeling that we could handle the PS3 launch better than the PS3 exec team.

I saw a comment from one of them the other day where one of them said 'If the PS3 fails, it will be because we built the Mercedes of game platforms'. No, you jackass, it will be because you couldn't shut your mouth and you yet again proved why you shouldn't be paid to open it.

gstelmack

03-27-2007, 11:26 AM

few weeks ago, the full million was expected to be sold out, right?

A few weeks ago? Try just last week:

The European release PS3's are mostly spoke for at this point. Sony is expecting the whole release quantity of 1 million in Europe to sell right away.

(apparently I have to stick something down here, because having a quote after all my text fools the board into thinking I didn't add any text of my own and it won't let me post)

spleen1015

03-27-2007, 11:47 AM

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-27-2007, 12:02 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but England ws the country giving away a free HDTV with the system, right? You think maybe that country would be on the high end of the scale as opposed to the low end.

I found the information concerning the HDTV giveaway. The actual facts are much different than you imply. The store did not advertise the free HDTV's. They only announced that the people in line were getting the TV's 20 minutes before the midnight launch event began. It had nothing to do with trying to sell the PS3's as you implied. Also, the head of the Virgin Megastores notes in this article that the local authorities placed restrictions regarding lines forming which made it all the more impressive that they had a good turnout.

Another case of Sony in a no-win situation. They give out free TV's to people who showed up to support their platform and critics say, "See! They had to throw in HDTV's just to sell their systems!" when that actually is not the case at all.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23725

Sony gives out free Bravia TVs to UK's first PS3 buyers
Ellie Gibson 06:09 (GMT) 23/03/2007
Virgin Megastore customers get a surprise

The PlayStation 3 finally arrived in Europe last night, and there was a surprise in store for those buying a console at the official UK launch - a free 46" Sony Bravia television worth around GBP 2000.

The flagship Virgin Megastore on Oxford Street store opened its doors to the first customers keen to get their hands on PS3 at noon on Wednesday. Although only a handful turned up to spend the night in the store, by 11pm on Thursday the queue had grown to over 100 people.

With just 20 minutes to go until the console officially went on sale, Sony UK boss Ray Maguire stepped up to address the crowd in front of a large flatscreen TV.

"This is a 46-inch Bravia W series. It's an award-winning flat panel," he said. "And do you know what the good news, is guys? I'm going to give you one free."

The cheers were muted at first, but then the news began to sink in. When Maguire clarified, "Every single one of you in this queue is going to get one," the crowd responded with whoops and applause.

At midnight, the first PlayStation 3 was handed over to 17 year-old Ritatsu Thomas, who'd been waiting since 5am on Wednesday. He also received a Bravia TV to take home, but everyone else in the queue - 125 people in total - was told they'll receive their television next week.

Speaking to GamesIndustry.biz about the decision to give away the TVs, Maguire said, "PlayStation 3 is about the new generation of high definition. There are some people in that queue for whom the HD part is the more difficult part of the equation, and I think it's a way of just saying thank you.

"They've got the best console, and now they've got the best screen."

Maguire said he thought the launch had "gone great, considering that we weren't allowed to let people queue up outside and there were loads of restrictions".

"People waiting for 36 hours and sleeping overnight is absolutely unbelievable - it shows the affinity people have for the brand, and it's really humbling," he added.

Maguire's comments were echoed by Sony PR boss David Wilson, who told GamesIndustry.biz, "When retailers are going on record saying there's free stock, there's no point for any of these guys to come here and spend 36 on that floor down there - so I'm touched that so many have."

Mizzou B-ball fan

03-27-2007, 12:36 PM

Mizzou B-ball fan,

Why are you fighting so hard on this board for Sony? You've been around here long enough to know that the folks around here support something that is worth supporting.

Dude, you have to see that this launch has not gone as expected, not even close. It has been a disaster.

I will have a PS3 at home when there is a game that I have to play.

I like good back and forth discussion. This is certainly a good topic to discuss since my Mizzou Tigers didn't make the NCAA tourney. :)

With that said, there are two main criticism of the PS3 that are pretty valid.

1) High price (unless the HD format drives are included on both systems).
2) Lack of games.

The game situation will work itself out over the course of this year. March and April are obviously bringing some nice titles for the PS3. It is a valid concern if you're not interested in any of the current games.

Price is a relative thing. There are some that simply can't afford the high price and it doesn't matter what Sony does, they won't be able to sell to that group. For the people that already have the 360, Sony will need some additional titles to get those people to jump and get a PS3 (somewhat related to lack of games issue).

I will say that the majority of the venom towards the PS3 is of a rival nature from 360 owners or a dislike for the 'uppity' nature of the Sony exec comments. I've already noted my opinion regarding the Sony execs and find it hard to disagree with that point. The rival nature IMO comes from the advent of exclusive titles. There's a hatred that corporations would enter into agreements to limit the choice of the consumers by only publishing titles on certain platforms. I have a PS3 and I'd be the first to say that don't like exclusive titles (or exclusive licences like NFL/EA agreement). They limit competition which hurts gaming as a whole. Both systems have lost exclusive agreements and I hope that continues. The first-party and second-party exclusives are enough.

Here's a list of first and second party titles for PS3......

Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune
Killzone
Ratchet and Clank Future
Singstar
Eye of Judgement
Lair
Warhawk
Heavenly Sword
Hot Shots Golf 5
Gran Turismo 5
SOCOM
Syphon Filter
Wipeout
The Getaway
Eyetoy titles
God of War 3
Resistance 1/2 (expected)
Motorstorm 1/2 (expected)

First and second party exclusives are find because they are the same company in some form. Nintento has a similar strong lineup (especially first party) and Microsoft obviously has a major system seller if you're into FPS (Halo 3). IMO, I'm glad to see Sony lose some exclusive titles. It means more choice for everyone which is great for gamers overall. It's all circular in the end.

As far as the PS3 itself, most people that own one love it. The failure rate has been notably miniscule. There's some nit-picking about the rumble (which should have been resolved sooner), but I haven't missed it to be quite honest. A bad game without rumble is just as bad with rumble. Keep bringing the quality titles and I won't miss it at all.

gstelmack

03-27-2007, 01:30 PM

With that said, there are two main criticism of the PS3 that are pretty valid.

1) High price (unless the HD format drives are included on both systems).
2) Lack of games.

3) Difficult to program

Of course that is a lead-in to #2.

And don't blame just the 360 fanboys for this. We had to listen for months about how Sony was going to take over the gaming world, how we were stupid for buying a 360, and when they went "thud" we've got people changing their tune attempting to defend them.

"Just you wait, Europe has all 1 million units spoken for!"
"Well, 75% (750K) is a pretty good launch"

etc etc etc

And as you point out, there is also the way Sony has been treating the consumers which I think has had a far bigger impact on people lashing out than any of the other issues. "You should feel very grateful that we are only charging you $600 for this machine".

st.cronin

03-27-2007, 01:32 PM

I've been watching this thread slowly grow, and figured there must be some amusing threadjack that I missed. Guess I was wrong.

/wanders off

wade moore

03-27-2007, 01:36 PM

I still find the Mizzou-B-Ball-Fan extreme fanboyism for Sony yet complete hatred of EA to be fascinating.

stevew

03-27-2007, 02:43 PM

I can't wait until I get an HDTV and a PS3 for Blu Ray movies. But it's going to be probably another year or so until I can get either, i just have so much stuff i have to do at my house, first. The BD Movies are amazing in clarity, especially on a 1080p TV. For awhile I was "pro-upconverting and next gen is not necessary", but the pixelation of the lesser quality movies is just so hard to take on a higher end set, that a 1080p video source is pretty much necessary.

And on a side note, the BD player we had at work bit the dust the other day. We'd only had it on the floor for like 3 months, I guess near 24/7 usage will do that to a player.

WVUFAN

03-27-2007, 03:05 PM

I still find the Mizzou-B-Ball-Fan extreme fanboyism for Sony yet complete hatred of EA to be fascinating.

There has to be a balance to the extreme fanboyism for the 360 by some of the other posters in this thread, such as Troy and SackAttack.

dawgfan

03-27-2007, 03:13 PM

There has to be a balance to the extreme fanboyism for the 360 by some of the other posters in this thread, such as Troy and SackAttack.
Oh please. TroyF doesn't have brand loyalty when it comes to the gaming market - he has made abundantly clear how much he respects what Sony did with the PS2 (calling it the greatest gaming console thus far in terms of success). During the last console go-round, he was certainly not an Xbox "fanboy". He had mentioned on multiple occasions his intentions to buy a PS3 right away.

However, since he's not a brand loyalist nor a fanboy, he looked at the market and realized that the 360 and Wii gave him better bang for his buck.

If Troy seems passionate in his calling out Sony's mistakes, perhaps he's been goaded by the blind sycophant ism by others on this board with regards to Sony and the PS3.

SackAttack is in the games business as a reviewer. He has no incentive to be a "fanboy" for any particular system that I'm aware of - he's simply calling things as he sees them.

Calling Sack and Troy "fanboys" for 360 is analogous to someone saying that anyone less conservative than Bill O'Reilly is a raging liberal.

TroyF

03-27-2007, 03:20 PM

The Sony execs should be drawn and quartered. Seriously, I could pick 10 posters in this thread randomly (even including Troy ;) ) and I have a pretty good feeling that we could handle the PS3 launch better than the PS3 exec team.

I saw a comment from one of them the other day where one of them said 'If the PS3 fails, it will be because we built the Mercedes of game platforms'. No, you jackass, it will be because you couldn't shut your mouth and you yet again proved why you shouldn't be paid to open it.

Pick 10 posters on the board to have a better launch? How about 3 rabid dolphins, a monkey without a brain and HM? My guess is that group could have constructed a better, more organized launch.

TroyF

03-27-2007, 03:31 PM

Oh please. TroyF doesn't have brand loyalty when it comes to the gaming market - he has made abundantly clear how much he respects what Sony did with the PS2 (calling it the greatest gaming console thus far in terms of success). During the last console go-round, he was certainly not an Xbox "fanboy". He had mentioned on multiple occasions his intentions to buy a PS3 right away.

However, since he's not a brand loyalist nor a fanboy, he looked at the market and realized that the 360 and Wii gave him better bang for his buck.

If Troy seems passionate in his calling out Sony's mistakes, perhaps he's been goaded by the blind sycophant ism by others on this board with regards to Sony and the PS3.

SackAttack is in the games business as a reviewer. He has no incentive to be a "fanboy" for any particular system that I'm aware of - he's simply calling things as he sees them.

Calling Sack and Troy "fanboys" for 360 is analogous to someone saying that anyone less conservative than Bill O'Reilly is a raging liberal.

I think (hope) he was saying Sack and me were giving the balanced view, the one in between the fanboys on both sides.

Anyone who actually calls me a fanboy at this point is an idiot. I can't say it any simpler than that.

dawgfan

03-27-2007, 03:38 PM

I think (hope) he was saying Sack and me were giving the balanced view, the one in between the fanboys on both sides.

Anyone who actually calls me a fanboy at this point is an idiot. I can't say it any simpler than that.
My apologies to WVUFAN if I read his statement wrong, but it sure comes across to me as him saying that Mizzou B-ball Fan with his Sony fanboy-ism is providing balance to 360 fanboys like you and Sack (his view, not mine).

MrIllini

03-27-2007, 03:44 PM

MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THE PS3 SUCKED A FATTY

TroyF

03-27-2007, 03:55 PM

My apologies to WVUFAN if I read his statement wrong, but it sure comes across to me as him saying that Mizzou B-ball Fan with his Sony fanboy-ism is providing balance to 360 fanboys like you and Sack (his view, not mine).

After rereading it, you may be right. If that's the case, he can read my previous statement and take it to heart.

I'm happy at least a few people can read through the mess and understand I'm not biased against Sony or that I'm a 360 fanboy.

SackAttack

03-27-2007, 04:09 PM

I ran PlanetPS2 for GameSpy a few years ago, and one of the things I had to do was assemble a staff of writers.

As you might guess from the name, it was a console-specific site; we were devoted entirely to PlayStation 2 coverage. It would have been easy to find a half-dozen or so folks who could write and were fanatical about the PS2.

Instead, one of my hiring criteria was multiple-console ownership, and this was for two reasons: 1) I wanted a staff that was fairly even and balanced and could appreciate each of the systems for their merits, and 2) I wanted a staff that could, to use dawgfan's terminology, "call it like they saw it" on a game without fear or favor.

So I'm a little curious how I got from platform agnosticism to fanboyism, unless the state of not being a Sony fanboy automatically makes me a fanboy for the competition.

Eaglesfan27

03-27-2007, 04:10 PM

Oh please. TroyF doesn't have brand loyalty when it comes to the gaming market - he has made abundantly clear how much he respects what Sony did with the PS2 (calling it the greatest gaming console thus far in terms of success). During the last console go-round, he was certainly not an Xbox "fanboy". He had mentioned on multiple occasions his intentions to buy a PS3 right away.

However, since he's not a brand loyalist nor a fanboy, he looked at the market and realized that the 360 and Wii gave him better bang for his buck.

If Troy seems passionate in his calling out Sony's mistakes, perhaps he's been goaded by the blind sycophant ism by others on this board with regards to Sony and the PS3.

SackAttack is in the games business as a reviewer. He has no incentive to be a "fanboy" for any particular system that I'm aware of - he's simply calling things as he sees them.

Calling Sack and Troy "fanboys" for 360 is analogous to someone saying that anyone less conservative than Bill O'Reilly is a raging liberal.

Spot on. I think Troy and to a lesser extent myself feel we have to respond with facts to some of the outrageous statements that some PS3 supporters are making on here. I love the PS2 and have supported whatever system had the most games I wanted. I still think I'll probably have all 3 next gen systems at some point in the future. However, some of the statements a few posters have made on here make me wonder if some of these guys have massive amounts of Sony stock or something.

WVUFAN

03-27-2007, 05:08 PM

My apologies to WVUFAN if I read his statement wrong, but it sure comes across to me as him saying that Mizzou B-ball Fan with his Sony fanboy-ism is providing balance to 360 fanboys like you and Sack (his view, not mine).

That's exactly what I'm saying. Call me an idiot if you like, but none of you are willing to admit to being a fan of the Playstation 3, you create threads and do nothing but attack the PS3 (all the while saying how unbiased you are), and are willing to concede no points as to the positives of the system.

To me, that screams 360 fanboys. At least I admit I'm a fan of Sony systems, and don't try to create some "I'm even-handed" facade.

BrianD

03-27-2007, 05:10 PM

Spot on. I think Troy and to a lesser extent myself feel we have to respond with facts to some of the outrageous statements that some PS3 supporters are making on here. I love the PS2 and have supported whatever system had the most games I wanted. I still think I'll probably have all 3 next gen systems at some point in the future. However, some of the statements a few posters have made on here make me wonder if some of these guys have massive amounts of Sony stock or something.

Same here. I enjoy seeing companies go through the wringer when they make bad business decisions, and I can remember not liking Sony and a number of their proprietary formats. At the same time, I am playing a PS2 on my Sony TV. I feel OK jumping on Sony for bad business or bad PR moves when I am also supporting them for their good products.

sabotai

03-27-2007, 05:13 PM

BrianD

03-27-2007, 05:14 PM

That's exactly what I'm saying. Call me an idiot if you like, but none of you are willing to admit to being a fan of the Playstation 3, you create threads and do nothing but attack the PS3 (all the while saying how unbiased you are), and are willing to concede no points as to the positives of the system.

To me, that screams 360 fanboys. At least I admit I'm a fan of Sony systems, and don't try to create some "I'm even-handed" facade.

Haven't many of the people posting talked about their PS2s? I think everyone agrees that games look good on the PS3, but some of the business decisions surrounding the PS3 take away from how the games look. Using a game console to push a proprietary DVD format isn't going to win friends with a crowd that likes competition and options.

TroyF

03-27-2007, 05:32 PM

That's exactly what I'm saying. Call me an idiot if you like, but none of you are willing to admit to being a fan of the Playstation line, you create threads and do nothing but attack the PS3 (all the while saying how unbiased you are), and are willing to concede no points as to the positives of the system.

To me, that screams 360 fanboys. At least I admit I'm a fan of Sony systems, and don't try to create some "I'm even-handed" facade.

I own a PS2. I'm playing God of War II, a Sony game on a Sony console NIGHTLY. I own a PSP and have said in another thread that I've played that over my DS on the last couple of trips I have taken. One of the games I've played is MLB: The Show, another Sony exclusive.

I've said REPEATEDLY that I will eventually get a PS3 if the games come out to support it. I've stated REPEATEDLY that while Blu-Ray may be the end all for some, it's worthless to me and that I don't think it's going to drive the system in any serious way.

And I've focused on the continued lies that Sony is coming out with and have REPEATEDLY spoken about the disaster that is the PS3 launch.

I am a fan of the 360. I love the controller, I love LIVE and I love a lot of games that have been released for the system. (recently Crackdown has been a favorite of mine, as well as Dead Rising, NBA2Kx, and Gears of War to name just a handfull of titles I play) I'm a fan of the Wii and the innovative control scheme. I'm a fan of the PS2, the best console of all time. (and a Sony product) I've said that I'd buy another PS2 if mine died tonight and that's the truth. I'm a fan of the DS because it's flat out fun. I'm a fan of the PSP (another Sony product) because of how versatile it is.

But what do you want me to say about the PS3 at this point? If I don't bow down to its greatness, I'm a fanboy for another system? What am I supposed to do, drop 600 bucks on a system when there are no games for it that interest me currently out? Pretend Sony is doing a wonderful job when the launch numbers from across the world are horrific? Should I put my head in the clouds and pretend that Sony is going to finish first when I don't think that's the reality?

One last thing to consider. . . this "360 fanboy" has predicted that the Wii will win this round of the console war. I predicted the Wii will catch the 360 by the end of the year and will not look back. How does that fit in with me being a 360 fanboy?

I won't defend the point any longer. Anyone who believes I want Sony to fail or that I'm some MS fanboy who refuses to look at reality is insane. And an idiot. Period.

And I'll say this for Sack. He's NEVER told me how to review a game, what I could/couldn't say in a blog post, steered me to Sony, MS or any other system. He reviews games for all systems and the grading scale is not favored toward one system over another. Implyng that he's a biased fanboy who wants Sony to fail is moronic. The more popular video gaming is, the more systems in peoples hands, the more games they buy. . . the more people will be looking at his site. It's in his best interests for EVERY system to be a success.

Deattribution

03-27-2007, 06:19 PM

I find it hilarious that these same tired discussions happen everytime the PS3 is mentioned with the same 3 or 4 people.

Somebody mentioned why is Mizzou-B ball pushing so hard for Sony when he knows the board will give anything a fair shake if warranted --- that's a joke. What do sales in Europe have anything to do with the quality of the games and the system? There were the same tired 'I hope Sony fails, the PS3 causes cancer' discussions even before the thing was released even.

And to Dawgfan who said that TroyF isn't a fanboy because he openly admited that the PS2 was the supreme system of the previous generous, DUH. There is no way anyone can say otherwise, the only gripe about the PS2 is/was how fragile they were for some people. That doesn't make anyone who admits that not a fanboy.

dawgfan

03-27-2007, 06:26 PM

(except for dawgfan, who said it's difficult to program for the PS3).
That's gstelmack actually. We've been pretty much focused on the 360 SKU of our game so far (at least on the production side) so I really don't have any word from our tech guys about comparison between programming for the 360 vs. the PS3, though it certainly wouldn't shock me to hear that PS3 programming is more difficult.

dawgfan

03-27-2007, 06:28 PM

And to Dawgfan who said that TroyF isn't a fanboy because he openly admited that the PS2 was the supreme system of the previous generous, DUH. There is no way anyone can say otherwise, the only gripe about the PS2 is/was how fragile they were for some people. That doesn't make anyone who admits that not a fanboy.
Read the above post by Troy (which summarizes what he's been saying about consoles from the very first time he talked about them) and tell me again that I'm off-base in saying that he isn't a 360 fanboy.

sabotai

03-27-2007, 06:34 PM

That's gstelmack actually.

oops, fixed it. You only work on 360 games? Pfft, fanboy. :p

sabotai

03-27-2007, 06:35 PM

Read the above post by Troy (which summarizes what he's been saying about consoles from the very first time he talked about them) and tell me again that I'm off-base in saying that he isn't a 360 fanboy.

Since he isn't kissing Sony's ass, apparently that means he's a supporter of the "PS3 causes cancer" theory.

dawgfan

03-27-2007, 06:39 PM

And let me say for the record (again) that I have nothing against the PS3 as a platform - I think it's going to have some fantastic games, and it should provide a bigger palette for me as an animator (since it's supposed to have more graphical horsepower than the 360). The more successful the PS3 is, the more platforms there will be in the marketplace for the game I'm working on to be purchased for, which in turn puts more money in my pocket in the form of royalties.

My objection to the PS3 is similar to Troy's - I'm not pleased that the game platform is being used as a trojan horse to win the next-gen DVD media format war. Blu-Ray is great, but I don't want to have to pay at least $200 more than a 360 to own a PS3. I don't want to commit to a new DVD media format yet (and I might never have to, depending on how the downloadable HD movie systems work out) - I just want the system to play games. Had it simply been that and been much closer in price to the 360, I'd be much more interested in buying one, and I suspect I'm not alone - I'm certain the PS3 would be doing much, much better in terms of sales if this were the case.

I also think Troy may well be right about the Wii kicking the ass of both the 360 and PS3 when it's all said and done - it's got that fun factor that is drawing in a lot of non-gamers, and is cheap enough that many hard-core gamers are buying them as a 2nd system.

dawgfan

03-27-2007, 06:42 PM

oops, fixed it. You only work on 360 games? Pfft, fanboy. :p
No, we're going to be publishing the game on both the 360 and PS3 - it's just that our development is almost 95% focused on the 360 SKU at the moment given the head start of the 360 launch in terms of available hardware. Talk to me again in 6 months - we should have a much better idea at that point of how development will go with our PS3 SKU.

WVUFAN

03-27-2007, 06:43 PM

Since he isn't kissing Sony's ass, apparently that means he's a supporter of the "PS3 causes cancer" theory.

He doesn't have to kiss it, but he doesn't have to go out of his way (him and you and SackAttack) to kick it at every opportunity possible.

When I read a thread that is critical of the 360 or the Wii in the same manner you guys relentlessly go after Sony and the PS3, then I'll concede your point.
Until then, you're just like the dozens of other "PS3 is the SUX! 360 is AWESOME!" groups I see on other boards.

You guys are much more articulate than the average Sony-hater, I'll give you that. :)

spleen1015

03-27-2007, 06:50 PM

When I read a thread that is critical of the 360 or the Wii in the same manner you guys relentlessly go after Sony and the PS3, then I'll concede your point. Until then, you're just like the dozens of other "PS3 is the SUX! 360 is AWESOME!" groups I see on other boards.

You won't. You know why?

360 ROOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLZZZZZZZZZ!!!

Wii IS THE SHIZZLE ON THE NIZZLE!!!!!!!!! ROOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLSSSSZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS3 = teh suk

sabotai

03-27-2007, 06:51 PM

Had it simply been that and been much closer in price to the 360, I'd be much more interested in buying one, and I suspect I'm not alone - I'm certain the PS3 would be doing much, much better in terms of sales if this were the case.

The day after the price of the PS3 was announced is when I went and bought an XBox 360. Had Sony announced it would be released with the same price as the 360, I would probably still not own either as I waited to see which one would be worth getting.

As it is, I still really don't see many games as "must owns" for the 360. I have Gears of War, eh, it looks nice...I just have a hard time with the controls. Dead Rising is a fun game, as are others, but for me, nothing is a "must own". Not like Final Fantasy, anyway. But right now, neither system, IMO, have any games that I have to play. Coupled with the fact that FF12 is a PS2 game, and it was going to be awhile before FF13 was ready, the price was pretty much the reason I got a 360 when I did.

Atocep

03-27-2007, 06:52 PM

He doesn't have to kiss it, but he doesn't have to go out of his way (him and you and SackAttack) to kick it at every opportunity possible.

When I read a thread that is critical of the 360 or the Wii in the same manner you guys relentlessly go after Sony and the PS3, then I'll concede your point.
Until then, you're just like the dozen of other "PS3 is the SUX! 360 is AWESOME!" group I see on other boards.

You guys are much more articulate than the average Sony-hater, I'll give you that. :)

I don't think its about PS3 vs 360 or even Microsoft vs Sony. Its about the arrogance and/or public deception that Sony has had since early January when it was becoming clear they were getting their asses kicked. Anyone that looks at the market and then looks at what Sony is doing/saying has to realize that the PS3 isn't about gaming to them, its about getting a leg up on the next-gen DVD format. This is going to offend a lot of gamers.

Sony built a strong user base by making consoles that were all about gaming and aquiring exclusive titles to show their dedication to making the best gaming console they possibly could. They're well on their way to undoing a whole lot of work with the mess they've created with their mismanagement of the PS3.

sabotai

03-27-2007, 07:05 PM

He doesn't have to kiss it, but he doesn't have to go out of his way (him and you and SackAttack) to kick it at every opportunity possible.

In reference to me, posting sales figures is kicking it at every opportunity? Well, since they are so bad, I guess to the Sony faithful, simply starting a thread about how bad they did in Feb. and comparing it to the rest of the consoles would appear like I was kicking them.

All it takes is a simple search to find out what we ere saying about the XBox 360 when it was going through their own pre-launch blunders.

For the record, I was critical of Microsofts 2 "tiered" system (Core and Basic? Bah!), of their lack of quality launch titles, of their lack of full backwards compatibility, of the fact they lauched with far fewer systems than they should have. And that's just what I remember off the top of my head from a year and half ago. I'd have to do a search to see what else I said, other than I openly stated that I was unimpressed with ther 360 enough that I was going to wait until Sony announced everything for the PS3 before I decided which console to get (first).

Then they did, and then I bought a 360.

TroyF

03-27-2007, 07:22 PM

He doesn't have to kiss it, but he doesn't have to go out of his way (him and you and SackAttack) to kick it at every opportunity possible.

When I read a thread that is critical of the 360 or the Wii in the same manner you guys relentlessly go after Sony and the PS3, then I'll concede your point.
Until then, you're just like the dozens of other "PS3 is the SUX! 360 is AWESOME!" groups I see on other boards.

You guys are much more articulate than the average Sony-hater, I'll give you that. :)

I'm not really sure I even understand the point you made above.

Me: Brenda, you are having a rough couple of months, I'm pulling you off of the big project.
Brenda: But you've never criticized Bob or Susan.
Me: They do their jobs. You did your job very well for six years, but you've really bombed lately. I'm sorry, you are being pulled off the project.
Brenda: You obviously hate me.
Me: No, I just wish you'd do the job that I ask. And I don't think you are worth the OT I'm going to have to pay you to be on that project. If I see improvement, I'll certainly consider you for promotion in the future.
Brenda: You HATE ME!!!!! (runs of in tears)

Explain to me why I should be insulting Bob or Susan because Brenda is sucking at her job? Now explain to me why I have to criticize the Wii or the 360 when I'm satisfied with both systems.

If it makes you sleep better at night thinking I'm just a Sony hater and that because of that I'm off base, sleep well. Maybe you'll get some brain cells and learn to read during your rest.

TroyF

03-27-2007, 07:24 PM

Dola:

You still haven't explained to me how I can be a 360 fanboy and predict the Wii will win the console race. Is it all part of my MS plan to prove I'm not a Sony hater? Or am I really a NINTENDO fanboy who bought a 360 to hide that fact? I'm confused.

WVUFAN

03-27-2007, 07:31 PM

I'm not really sure I even understand the point you made above.

Me: Brenda, you are having a rough couple of months, I'm pulling you off of the big project.
Brenda: But you've never criticized Bob or Susan.
Me: They do their jobs. You did your job very well for six years, but you've really bombed lately. I'm sorry, you are being pulled off the project.
Brenda: You obviously hate me.
Me: No, I just wish you'd do the job that I ask. And I don't think you are worth the OT I'm going to have to pay you to be on that project. If I see improvement, I'll certainly consider you for promotion in the future.
Brenda: You HATE ME!!!!! (runs of in tears)

Using your little role-play, here's how I see what you're doing:

Me: Brenda, you are having a rough couple of months, I'm pulling you off the big project.
Brenda: But you've never evaluated Bob or Susan.
Me: You did your job very well for six years, but you've bombed lately. I'm sorry, you are being pulled off the project.
Brenda: You haven't even looked at the bad things Bob or Susan have done. Here's some of what they're doing --
Me: I don't care about them. I'm only paying attention to your negatives.
Brenda: YOU HATE ME!!!!! (runs off in tears)

I just don't see how y'all can't see the inherent bias in your posts.

dawgfan

03-27-2007, 07:34 PM

I just don't see how can't see the inherent bias in your posts.
Because there isn't any.

Are you seriously suggesting that Troy hasn't pointed out anything that MS did wrong about the 360 launch? Are you saying that every time he points out something that Sony has screwed-up about the PS3 launch, he also has to mention everything that MS screwed-up about the 360 launch?

The bias here isn't coming from Troy...

sabotai

03-27-2007, 07:44 PM

Brenda: But you've never evaluated Bob or Susan.

How you see things is wrong, and this from your role-play shows it. The XBox 360 launched a year and a half ago. That is when we talked about (evaluated) the launch of the 360.

WVUFAN

03-27-2007, 07:51 PM

The bias here isn't coming from Troy...

I've admitted time after time I'm a fan of Sony systems, and I'm not a fan of Microsoft. I'm anti-Microsoft, absolutely, and I've stated why.

Here's what I don't do -- I don't create topics about how bad the 360 is doing, or how poor the system is. I don't create topics pointing out flaws in the other two systems.

I do respond when one of the 4 or 5 "unbiased" posters do their standard weekly anti-Sony rhetoric.
But go right ahead and bash Sony all you want. It's clear nothing is going to deter it.

Deattribution

03-27-2007, 07:54 PM

But go right ahead and bash Sony all you want. It's clear nothing is going to deter it.

Quoted for the truth. Anyone who bothers is wasting their time.

sabotai

03-27-2007, 07:56 PM

It's clear nothing is going to deter it.

They could stop fucking up. That would do the trick.

st.cronin

03-27-2007, 08:03 PM

If I was a mod, I would lock this thread, on the grounds that its boring.

dawgfan

03-27-2007, 08:03 PM

I do respond when one of the 4 or 5 "unbiased" posters do their standard weekly anti-Sony rhetoric.
But go right ahead and bash Sony all you want. It's clear nothing is going to deter it.
It's real simple - if Sony doesn't fuck up, there's nothing to "bash" them for. Plenty of time was spent debating the pros and cons of the 360 launch around the time it happened - if you want to stoke your anti-Microsoft fires, go dig up those threads. But don't be surprised if you find more criticism of the PS3 launch. Then pause to contemplate the very real possibility that this isn't because of any bias, but because there's been more to criticize.

Deattribution

03-27-2007, 08:08 PM

They could stop fucking up. That would do the trick.

Yeah how dare they release a system and try to take the smallest hit possible to their bottom line! Those fucking bastards at Sony, what do they think they're running? a business!?!?

The same people in this thread shit all over Sony's online gameplan and now that they have it up and running - free of charge, there hasn't been one positive thing said about it here despite all of them being proven wrong.

There was pissing and moaning about overheating before launch, and there have been less overheating issues than the 360, yet nobody mentions anything about that.

People complain about the price, but the 360 cost less than the PS3 to make, so naturally it's going to be cheaper --- it's not as if Sony is getting rich with every console sold. They *try* to give you more for your dollar (obviously with some of their own interest in mind but MS has the same thing in mind with Xbox live), whether you feel that way is subjective but it doesn't make Sony the devil.

There are dozens of other things that have nothing to do with Sony 'fucking up' yet the same 4 or 5 people harp on it as if they actually know what theyre talking about while screaming they are unbiased cause they own a PS2 or think the Wii is best. Sad, sad people, really.

WVUFAN

03-27-2007, 08:24 PM

Yeah how dare they release a system and try to take the smallest hit possible to their bottom line! Those fucking bastards at Sony, what do they think they're running? a business!?!?

I'm gonna guess what they'll say to this:

"If they didn't include a Blu-Ray Drive with the system, they could make it cheaper. BLAH BLAH BLAH selling proprietary format BLAH BLAH BLAH."

The same people in this thread shit all over Sony's online gameplan and now that they have it up and running - free of charge, there hasn't been one positive thing said about it here despite all of them being proven wrong.
"Obviously we'd rather PAY MS for the rights to play the games we've already purchased than get it for free. Obviously in some way or manner the games are better on XBox Live. BLAH BLAH BLAH Halo is great online BLAH BLAH BLAH."

dawgfan

03-27-2007, 08:33 PM

Yeah how dare they release a system and try to take the smallest hit possible to their bottom line! Those fucking bastards at Sony, what do they think they're running? a business!?!?
The gaming public never held a gun to Sony's head saying "include a Blu-Ray player".

The same people in this thread shit all over Sony's online gameplan and now that they have it up and running - free of charge, there hasn't been one positive thing said about it here despite all of them being proven wrong.
Proven wrong? How many reviewers of both online services feel that Sony's is superior, or that you are getting what you pay for with each?

There was pissing and moaning about overheating before launch, and there have been less overheating issues than the 360, yet nobody mentions anything about that.
There has been plenty of discussion of overheating issues with the 360 on this board and elsewhere. Are you saying we're supposed to be praising Sony because their hardware is working as it should?

People complain about the price, but the 360 cost less than the PS3 to make, so naturally it's going to be cheaper --- it's not as if Sony is getting rich with every console sold. They *try* to give you more for your dollar (obviously with some of their own interest in mind but MS has the same thing in mind with Xbox live), whether you feel that way is subjective but it doesn't make Sony the devil.
Again, the gaming public didn't force Sony to include Blu-Ray - the vast majority of them don't give a shit about the format with regard to games.

There are dozens of other things that have nothing to do with Sony 'fucking up' yet the same 4 or 5 people harp on it as if they actually know what theyre talking about while screaming they are unbiased cause they own a PS2 or think the Wii is best. Sad, sad people, really.
How in the fuck can you continue to think that Troy is biased against Sony when he constantly praises the PS2 as the best console in history is beyond logic.