New version of Xbox 360 confirmed......

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/20/hdmi-enabled-black-xbox-360-in-late-april-for-479/

They're basically putting out an improved system for $479. The weird part is that, despite the increased price, HDMI and a bigger hard drive are the only improvements. No built-in HD movie player. If they release it at $400 and drop the current $400 model to $300, it would make perfect sense. It's certainly an interesting development and I'm sure it will spark a lot of discussion.

[SackAttack]

Hey, don't forget, included HDMI cable.

(Yeah, Sony, we're looking at you.)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Hey, don't forget, included HDMI cable.

(Yeah, Sony, we're looking at you.)

You can get a HDMI cable for dirt cheap anymore unless your one of those guys that buys one for $80 in Best Buy because the guy said it was the best. It's a nice add-on, but I'm not sure it's anything more than that. You can get a HDMI cord under $10 online.

[Eaglesfan27]

I think the 120 GB hard drive makes this a good pickup for anyone who hasn't purchased this yet but was considering a 360, but I'm not pissed off as an early adopter like the article was suggesting some might be. I knew that risk when I got it on launch day. I do think it will be more annoying to anyone who has bought a 360 in the last few months.

[TroyF]

I think the 120 GB hard drive makes this a good pickup for anyone who hasn't purchased this yet but was considering a 360, but I'm not pissed off as an early adopter like the article was suggesting some might be. I knew that risk when I got it on launch day. I do think it will be more annoying to anyone who has bought a 360 in the last few months.

Exactly. As someone who picks up a system on day one, you know there will be changes made to the system a year or two later. I think it's always been known a bigger HD would be on the way at some point. I'm fine on my HD space now and really won't be using LIVE for the movies or tv shows. If at some point space becomes a problem, I'll purchase the bigger HD.

[Icy]

Good that i sold mine 3 weeks ago. I'm still considering buying a PS3 because the lack of region lock for games, but this is interesting too. Too bad Microsoft insist on this region lock stuff, it's going to help a lot the PS3 sales in Europe.

[spleen1015]

Has anyone had space problems on their current HD?

The improved video from HDMI isn't great enough to make a difference, IMO.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good that i sold mine 3 weeks ago. I'm still considering buying a PS3 because the lack of region lock for games, but this is interesting too. Too bad Microsoft insist on this region lock stuff, it's going to help a lot the PS3 sales in Europe.

Definitely good you sold it. The trade in value is going to go down some next month once this hits the market and the old version is traded in when some people upgrade.

On the other hand, it might be a good opportunity for some people who don't want to spend a lot to get a 360 for relatively cheap since places like GameStop will have a bunch of the used old models in stock.

[Eaglesfan27]

Has anyone had space problems on their current HD?

The improved video from HDMI isn't great enough to make a difference, IMO.


I've used up about 1 GB of the 20 on game related stuff and another 7GB on demos, a TV show, and other multimedia stuff. Erasing demos will free up a few GB's when I get closer to being full. Still, I could see myself just upgrading the HD in the future if it isn't priced too high as an accessory.

[spleen1015]

I don't do a lot of media downloading on mine. Other than demos and games, I can get all of the videos, movies, tv shows online, so I have no need to do it on the Xbox. I guess I just use mine differently.

[Terps]

Has anyone had space problems on their current HD?

The improved video from HDMI isn't great enough to make a difference, IMO.

I still have 14 GB free space on the 20 GB hard drive. And I think that's around what the free space has always been since I got it.

[Eaglesfan27]

I don't do a lot of media downloading on mine. Other than demos and games, I can get all of the videos, movies, tv shows online, so I have no need to do it on the Xbox. I guess I just use mine differently.


I don't use it for that stuff much, but it's come in handy for an episode or two of a show my wife likes that I or the DVR have messed up recording. Watching them on the big screen TV in HD via the 360 is a nice option in those cases.

[dawgfan]

Seems to me the primary reason for the huge hard drive is downloading movies - I doubt most people are going to fill their 20GB hard drives with game data.

Still seems a bit pricey, and if Sony does drop the PS3 price by $100 soon, will MS adjust their price as well (hard to imagine they won't)?

I'm glad I haven't bought a 360 yet - I'm having a ton of fun with my Wii, and I'm enjoying all the free Live games I'm getting on the developer's network on my work 360. I'll pick one up in the next year, but it looks like I'll benefit from a price drop.

[DanGarion]

Seems to me the primary reason for the huge hard drive is downloading movies - I doubt most people are going to fill their 20GB hard drives with game data.

Well they did just up the amount of space a downloaded game could be (non demo) So that is one reason why they did this too.

I bought my 360 in January knowing well enough that there would be a newer version eventually. I don't really care about the HDMI since I only have one HDMI on my TV. I'll buy the larger HD though.

[sooner333]

How much better is HDMI to component cables anyway? Does it even make a bit of difference at all if your tv is only 720p instead of 1080p?

[CraigSca]

I think the whole point is Microsoft looking at the 360 as multimedia entertainment center. I think I read somewhere that they're looking at the 360 as a combination game machine/DVR. Therefore, a larger HD makes sense.

[SackAttack]

You can get a HDMI cable for dirt cheap anymore unless your one of those guys that buys one for $80 in Best Buy because the guy said it was the best. It's a nice add-on, but I'm not sure it's anything more than that. You can get a HDMI cord under $10 online.

So, by that logic, isn't there even *less* excuse for Sony not to include one in the box, particularly since Microsoft *will* be doing so?

[Travis]

Ah, all the bashing to and fro. Microsoft is including a HDMI cable on a revamp of their system that didn't even include HDMI capability before. Realistically in the grand scheme, who cares if it's included or not. If you're going to drop $400+ on a gaming system/tv/pvr/whatever it is, what's $20 for a cable (or less if you can even use it). I didn't get a HDMI cable with my HDPVR, yet it's now hooked up with one, ditto for my PS3.

Sure, would have been spanky if it had been included, but they decided to supply what I'm assuming is the most widely used set of cabling right now. Either way, certainly not something that's going to sway my opinion of a product one way or the other.

Now if we were talking about something $100+ that was required for the system to run, different story.

[SackAttack]

When you're charging $600 for a system and talking about how it's the only TRUE HD/next-gen/whatever, you have no bloody business foisting off the lowest standard of video cable on your customers and then saying "oh, by the way..."

When you circulate misleading documents at retail to try to snow teenage sales reps into giving that same misleading information to the consumer on cost, you have no business foisting off the lowest standard of video cable on your customers and then saying "oh, by the way..."

Granted, MS didn't include HDMI before, but my point is that they included a component cable with their premium setup initially, and they're including an HDMI cable with the new one.

Sony hasn't even bothered with the component cable, something they sell for, oh look, $20.

[WVUFAN]

I'm sure when the PS3 comes out with a new version (like the 360 is), over a year after they came out with the original (like the 360 is), they'll include a HDMI cable.

Saying "Look, Microsoft is including a HDMI cable over a year after the system came out. Sony should do the same with their system 5 months old" isn't fair. If you're gonna criticize one system for not including it in their premium system (PS3) you should do the same for the other.

[SackAttack]

I'm criticizing Sony for not including anything, period, when Microsoft has included the component cable with its premium unit from Day One, and will be including the HDMI cable with its redesign, also from Day One.

Sony could've escaped my criticism entirely had they included those $20 component cables with the $600 PS3, and for the very reason you cite - not fair to expect them to include the same cables with a 6-month-old system that Microsoft is with a brand new model.

It IS fair to expect them, at $200 more than the Xbox 360, to include equivalent video cables to the current Premium SKU.

[cartman]

How much better is HDMI to component cables anyway? Does it even make a bit of difference at all if your tv is only 720p instead of 1080p?

HDMI is digital, whereas component is analog. Also, HDMI can carry the audio signal, so in certain configurations it can cut down on the cord tangle. But you are on the right track with the 720p vs. 1080p. Some TVs that support 1080p only do so through the HDMI port, if you hook up component cables the best you'll get on those sets is 720p.

[gstelmack]

ARealistically in the grand scheme, who cares if it's included or not. If you're going to drop $400+ on a gaming system/tv/pvr/whatever it is, what's $20 for a cable (or less if you can even use it). I didn't get a HDMI cable with my HDPVR, yet it's now hooked up with one, ditto for my PS3.

If I drop $300+ on a piece of electronics equipment, I expect to have the cables I need to hook it up, not have to run back to the store to grab something else UNLESS I have some unusual cabling needs (which has happened once or twice). I feel like they are nickle-and-diming me.

And FWIW, my DirecTV HD-DVR DID come with an HDMI cable in the box, and even an HDMI -> DVI cable (and component cables).

I think the only cables I've had to personally buy for any of my HD equipment were optical audio cables for 5.1 audio, and one or two pieces of equipment came with those even.

[stevew]

If they offer enough trade in credt, I'd think it worthwhile to trade in the premium one and upgrade to the newer one. You start with a new system with a new warranty. Plus you don't have to buy the new HDD attachment and get HDMI support. Seems win/win if the price is not much more than the HDD is by itself.

[Eaglesfan27]

If they offer enough trade in credt, I'd think it worthwhile to trade in the premium one and upgrade to the newer one. You start with a new system with a new warranty. Plus you don't have to buy the new HDD attachment and get HDMI support. Seems win/win if the price is not much more than the HDD is by itself.


That is an interesting point. I had no plans to trade mine in, but that is a good reason to at least think about it.

[PSUColonel]

I just bought one in December, so this pretty much pisses me off.

[rowech]

Uhmmm...I bought mine about 6 weeks ago.

[WVUFAN]

I'm criticizing Sony for not including anything, period, when Microsoft has included the component cable with its premium unit from Day One, and will be including the HDMI cable with its redesign, also from Day One.

So what cables do the PS3 come with?

[dawgfan]

I just bought one in December, so this pretty much pisses me off.
Do you feel any less pissed-off when you buy a TV and 3 months later a better version is released? Or if you buy a digital camera and 3 months later a similar model with more features is released?

Game consoles don't have the same level of continuous feature upgrading that other consumer electronics do since there are basic standards that need to stay constant for a platform, but feature upgrades in consoles aren't something new - it's been happening pretty much from the start of the industry.

[SackAttack]

So what cables do the PS3 come with?

Composite, sir. Yellow-red-white.

Also known as 'the most basic cables available for the PlayStation 3.'

Which would even be fine if that's what they were doing for the $500 unit, but the $600 unit were getting the component cables, à la Core/Premium for Xbox 360. No, though - BOTH models have the cheapo stuff.

[WVUFAN]

Maybe I'm underestimating the number of people with high def tv's, but for a good group of people, the composite cables are all they need.

Do 360's come with composite cables and component?

[Eaglesfan27]

Maybe I'm underestimating the number of people with high def tv's, but for a good group of people, the composite cables are all they need.

Do 360's come with composite cables and component?


Yes they do. I'm willing to bet that the majority of people buying the 360 or PS3 either have a HDTV or will be buying one within the next year of purchase.

[WVUFAN]

Yes they do. I'm willing to bet that the majority of people buying the 360 or PS3 either have a HDTV or will be buying one within the next year of purchase.

Ok, if the 360 have both, then Sony has no excuse why they don't have both either.

[Chubby]

Sony could cure cancer and Sack would still bitch about how they didn't do it sooner.

[BrianD]

Out of curiosity, how many of you actually use the cables that come with A/V gear that you buy? I've never seen a cable included with anything that I've actually wanted to use. I don't generally buy high end cables, but typical throw-in cables tend to be junk.

[Fidatelo]

Out of curiosity, how many of you actually use the cables that come with A/V gear that you buy? I've never seen a cable included with anything that I've actually wanted to use. I don't generally buy high end cables, but typical throw-in cables tend to be junk.

I've never used anything except the cables that come with the things I buy.

[SackAttack]

Maybe I'm underestimating the number of people with high def tv's, but for a good group of people, the composite cables are all they need.

Do 360's come with composite cables and component?

Sort of.

The core units come with composite only. The premium units have a cable that supports both formats.

As I said earlier, my issue is with the $600 unit not including those cables. There's no excuse for Sony not including the component cables with their premium unit when they sell them separately for a measly $20 - particularly when they're staring a price disadvantage with their rivals in the face, and those same rivals are saying "Oh, by the way...mind if we give you something that will help you take greater advantage of your purchase, today?"

Chubby, you mean to tell me that such a decision doesn't smell cheapskatey to you? Sony's gonna throw in bluetooth, built-in wi-fi, a blu-ray player...but they won't even throw in a $20 set of component cables?

I mean, screw HDMI for a moment here - as others have said, the penetration of HDMI into the mass market is infinitesimal right now. On the other hand, I have a 4-year-old 27" TV that at least has component inputs. You practically can't buy a set larger than 20" anymore that doesn't have at least component.

Part of what you're going for with a new product launch is the word-of-mouth engendered by early adopters. Yeah, some of those are going to be the affluent middle-aged men who buy these machines, hook 'em up with a top-notch setup, and then show them off to demonstrate how cool they are.

And quite a lot more are going to be the 18-23 y/o boys who ate Ramen for a month so they could afford to buy one. Not as many as Sony would like (Remember their comment about "We want people to think 'I'll work extra hours to get one'"?), which is why you can find these things easily anymore.

But they're still out there. They could be your biggest advocates, because they're still at an age where peer pressure is an enormous factor. They haven't got HDMI-enabled TVs, but they probably HAVE got component video by now. And what are you doing? You're giving them this marvelous machine that can, ostensibly, do all these wonderful things...and you're cheaping out on the one piece that's going to make the most dramatic impact out of the box: the cables you're hooking up to the TV with.

Is the lack of component sufficient to keep me from buying a PS3, one of these days? Nope. When the PS3 marketplace is ready for me, I'll be there.

But do I think that lack is a hugely shortsighted, penny-wise-and-pound-foolish decision in the short-term? Absolutely.

[SackAttack]

Correction - my TV was purchased in January of 2002, which makes it just a little over 5 years old.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Maybe I'm underestimating the number of people with high def tv's, but for a good group of people, the composite cables are all they need.

Do 360's come with composite cables and component?

The component cables for the PS2 have the same input plug as the PS3. So most everyone who had HDTV's already had a composite cable that would work just fine on the PS3 and just moved it over from one system to another. It was pretty painless.

[Eaglesfan27]

I've never used anything except the cables that come with the things I buy.


Ditto. The 360 had the cables I needed for HD gaming right away. My HD-DVR had the HDMI cables I needed for the best picture. My last several purchases have had cables that have maximized the quality of the product included with them.

[gstelmack]

The composite cables for the PS2 have the same input plug as the PS3. So most everyone who had HDTV's already had a composite cable that would work just fine on the PS3 and just moved it over from one system to another. It was pretty painless.

Do you guys have any idea how many people buy a new HDTV, bring it home, call their cable company for an HD box, have it get all set up, and then complain that it doesn't look any better than it was before? And how many of those are because whoever set it up used the cheapest cables (composite) they had? We've had people IN THIS FORUM have this issue. People don't understand that they need different cables for HDTV, and by including only composite Sony will be exacerbating these problems among PS3 buyers, especially as (if?) it spreads out to less tech-savvy non-bleeding-edge buyers.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Do you guys have any idea how many people buy a new HDTV, bring it home, call their cable company for an HD box, have it get all set up, and then complain that it doesn't look any better than it was before? And how many of those are because whoever set it up used the cheapest cables (composite) they had? We've had people IN THIS FORUM have this issue. People don't understand that they need different cables for HDTV, and by including only composite Sony will be exacerbating these problems among PS3 buyers, especially as (if?) it spreads out to less tech-savvy non-bleeding-edge buyers.

I meant component in my post BTW. It's a sturdy learning curve for a lot of people. This won't be a problem much longer as Sony will likely switch to component pack-in cables in the coming months with composite no longer being the standard due to the digital TV mandate.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like the data transfers to the new Elite unit can only be from one hard drive to the 120GB HDD. It contradicts earlier statements by MS execs. My guess is that there's not a ton of people with more than one HDD, so hopefully this won't cause too much angst.......

http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/03/microsoft_data_.html

[moriarty]

Maybe I'm underestimating the number of people with high def tv's, but for a good group of people, the composite cables are all they need.


You don't need a HDTV to notice the difference between composite and component cables. I can see the difference on the spare 24" non-flat screen in my bedroom. As with most things though, the bigger the picture/tv the more noticeable it will become.

PS - if anyone wants/needs cheap but decent quality cables (read - don't go to best buy) try monoprice.com

[dawgfan]

That's an odd decision by Microsoft (the hard drive data transfer). I wonder if this is exclusive to the Japanese Elite unit or if this information is applicable for all regions. I also wonder to what extent copyright protection is a/the factor for this decision (transferring downloaded movies, TV shows, ripped music, etc.)

It probably won't affect many users, but it's still a lame restriction.

[dervack]

I think the whole point is Microsoft looking at the 360 as multimedia entertainment center. I think I read somewhere that they're looking at the 360 as a combination game machine/DVR. Therefore, a larger HD makes sense.
Bingo. With IPTV later this year, the expanded hard drive was a must.

[WVUFAN]

Bingo. With IPTV later this year, the expanded hard drive was a must.

What's IPTV?

[dawgfan]

What's IPTV?
Internet Protocol Television

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iptv

[SackAttack]

That's an odd decision by Microsoft (the hard drive data transfer). I wonder if this is exclusive to the Japanese Elite unit or if this information is applicable for all regions. I also wonder to what extent copyright protection is a/the factor for this decision (transferring downloaded movies, TV shows, ripped music, etc.)

It probably won't affect many users, but it's still a lame restriction.

It's mystifying why they would wait so long on the larger HDD while people are downloading things and then limiting them to transfer from one HDD. I can't imagine the market was HUGE for 2nd HDD purchases, but for those who spent their $99, they should be able to recover that data.

That said, they'll be able to freely redownload everything...but that's a massive PITA.

Not a great decision if they expect Elite purchasers to be mostly upgrades from Premium (as opposed to people buying an Elite *instead* of a Premium).

[sterlingice]

If they offer enough trade in credt, I'd think it worthwhile to trade in the premium one and upgrade to the newer one. You start with a new system with a new warranty. Plus you don't have to buy the new HDD attachment and get HDMI support. Seems win/win if the price is not much more than the HDD is by itself.

I'm guessing EB/GS will be all over this like they typically are with "trade ups". However, expect half credit towards the new one- you want to trade in an "old" 360 for a new 360, you'll probably get $200-$250 in credit towards the new $480 machine as that's typically the price range they do swaps at.

SI