Things I know for sure (that I don't want)

[B & B]

A car payment.

Never had one, and never will. Most folks said that was a pipe dream, but fuck em. Im in my 30s now and thats that. Never will I ever, or never will I own a new automobile. Buying new is a suckers dream. Eat em up, cowboy.

[sabotai]

I'm almost to the 30s and have never had a car payment. Always bought used.

In an unrelated topic, I'm having problems with my car.

[lordscarlet]

A car payment.

Never had one, and never will. Most folks said that was a pipe dream, but fuck em. Im in my 30s now and thats that. Never will I ever, or never will I own a new automobile. Buying new is a suckers dream. Eat em up, cowboy.

I have had a car payment, but I currently don't... not having a car makes that pretty easy. :)

[Rizon]

I have a couple of car payments, but I juke crack on a couple of blocks to make up for it.

[JeeberD]

Had a car payment for a while, on a used car though. I agree that a new car is for suckers...

[Lathum]

I think it's all relative.

Buying a new car is an unnecessary expense but if you can afford it why not?

[Lathum]

dola- We just bought a new car in September and I don't consider us suckers

[MacroGuru]

I always get them from the Auction, why pay mass amounts of markup when you can get them straight.

Brother in Law is a Car Dealer, when I need a car, I head to the auctions..

[Dekanth]

A car payment.

Never had one, and never will. Most folks said that was a pipe dream, but fuck em. Im in my 30s now and thats that. Never will I ever, or never will I own a new automobile. Buying new is a suckers dream. Eat em up, cowboy.

That is what poor people say. :p

[wade moore]

When you drive 85 miles round trip to work, buying a clunker is not an option. It doesn't have to be new, but you end up with a car payment of some sort.

[Qwikshot]

My feeling is this...I bought a new car, with everything I wanted, knowing that it would decrease in value as soon as I drove it off the lot. The goal is to own a car and utilize it until is no longer of value (that is to say repair costs outweigh the car's usefulness, or the car dies and is not worth the cost to repair)...that being said, you care for it, and try to keep it well maintained. I bought my VW in 2000, it's now 2007 and I'm still 7000 miles short of 100k. I figure I can run it at least 3 to 5 more years easy.

I think though that if you lease, or if you constantly trade in and buy cars, then yes, you are being foolish, because you just are wasting money.

Buying used is okay if you cannot afford new, but buying used generally a crapshoot in quality. You expect the car to die or have maintenance programs, so unless you get it really cheap, you are expecting to put money into it to keep it running until it's too extreme and then off to the lot for another used car.

Furthermore Batman tells you, ..."It's the car, chicks dig the car."

[Butter]

When you drive 85 miles round trip to work, buying a clunker is not an option. It doesn't have to be new, but you end up with a car payment of some sort.

""

Buying used is okay if you cannot afford new, but buying used generally a crapshoot in quality. You expect the car to die or have maintenance programs, so unless you get it really cheap, you are expecting to put money into it to keep it running until it's too extreme and then off to the lot for another used car.

More truth.

I don't know what kind of reliable auction places you guys are getting your cars, but let me in on that. As for me, the foreign cars I prefer to buy are actually a better buy new than used, because they retain their value a little too well.

As it is, I have a '97 Corolla with 157k miles on it that is probably going to die sooner rather than later... and when it does, I'm probably going to buy a new compact just because I think I can get it to last 7-10 years, whereas a used car would be a total crapshoot beyond a certain point.

[KevinNU7]

I bought a "new" car in the summer after the following years model had already come out. I got a car with <20 miles with zero risk of some having fucked it up but at a reduced cost because the delearship started selling the next year's model already.

I think that is the best of both worlds.

[molson]

Buying a cheap used car is a sucker's bet. How much money does one have to spend for a used car, with the only considerations being that it will last for 3 or 4 years, that you won't have to pay thousands to a mechanic, and that it won't break down? $8-9k? That's still requires a loan for most people, and for just a couple of thousand more, you can buy a new Hyndai Elantra or something that'll last 150k miles, that you'll know has been maintained properly for it's whole life, and that won't have to fear a break-down for at least a few years.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I bought a used car back in 2002. With my fairly poor credit (at the time) and only being able to afford the minimum payment back then, I'm still making payments on it. Only four more to go, and this thing is mine.

[duckman]

My ex-father-in-law sold me on the idea of never financing a car payment a few years ago. He believes that the only thing that should be financed is a home. He puts money in a savings account earmarked for buying a car or making repairs to his current vehicle. He keeps the vehicle until it has no value. He then goes buy an used vehicle with cash, which can help when he haggles. He also takes the car to a mechanic and pay them to give a full inspection. Works pretty well for him, so I going to use the same philosophy.

[st.cronin]

For used cars, auction is ok, but the best is the classifieds.

[Senator]

I usually have a driver, so these things you speak of do not concern me.

[JediKooter]

If you go in with the mindset of buying a new car as an investment, then yeah, buying a new car is a suckers bet.

[Crapshoot]

Funny,
I'm just about to buy a first car (living in Boston, a car wasn't even a need). I've debated the new/used endlessly, and as far as I can tell, the price gap hasn't been substantial enough to make it worthwhile. I'd buy used but the searching I'm doing on 2005/2006 Civics is close to the price to the price of a new 2007. Ideally, I'd like to wait till 2008 models come out, but that isn't an option.

Speaking of which, anyone own a MAzda3 or a Honda Civic? Those are my two choices.

[Young Drachma]

When you drive 85 miles round trip to work, buying a clunker is not an option. It doesn't have to be new, but you end up with a car payment of some sort.

Yeah, that's my situation. I drive 100 miles round trip every day. I don't fix cars and I'm one of those people that simply can't handle a situation where I even feel remotely like my car won't get me to where I want to go.

Car payment is fine. I don't have kids, I don't want any..and I don't drink or have tons of major bills. And I really like my car.

So..to each their own, I guess.

[st.cronin]

Classifieds are a crapshoot and usually a bad result.

Not if you're willing to do a little bit of work. I've had great success buying cars this way, in some cases paying less than 1/2 the listed value.

[panerd]

I agree with B&B's basic sentiment but can't the main point be said for just about anything? Why go to a nice restaurant when I can cook the food at my house? Why go to a bar for drinks when I can get a 12-pack for $10? Why pay for parking at a baseball game when I can walk 2 miles and pay nothing? etc, etc...

I do think there are two very valid issues with new cars...

1. Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread buying and leasing cars every couple of years.

2. Buying a new car for a teenaged driver.

But if it is going to make my wife happy (or hell myself happy) why not? You only live once.

[Mustang]

2. Buying a new car for a teenaged driver.

But if it is going to make my wife happy (or hell myself happy) why not? You only live once.

Against buying new for a teen right? I can't see doing that since teenagers have a higher accident rate and they are more prone to beat the crap out of it.

[Rizon]

New cars aren't that bad of an "investment" that people make them out to be. If you keep the car in excellent condition you will make back a decent amount if you sell it. There aren't many things that you replace every few years, like a computer or cell phone, that are an "investment" like that.

[Subby]

The last car we bought (Ford Freestyle) was "new" but we got a good deal on it because the new model year had come out and they wanted to move the remaining 2006 vehicles they had on the lot...

[Rizon]

The last car we bought (Ford Freestyle) was "new" but we got a good deal on it because the new model year had come out and they wanted to move the remaining 2006 vehicles they had on the lot...

Best way to buy a new car, IMO. You can get these cars for at or less than what the dealership paid for them (if you know what you're doing).

[Logan]

New cars aren't that bad of an "investment" that people make them out to be. If you keep the car in excellent condition you will make back a decent amount if you sell it. There aren't many things that you replace every few years, like a computer or cell phone, that are an "investment" like that.

Having resale value does not mean something is an investment. An investment by definition means there is a chance of a profit. A limited edition car that you bought because it's rare, and you don't drive it, could be an investment. Any car that is put to practical use has no chance of not losing value.

[molson]

Having resale value does not mean something is an investment. An investment by definition means there is a chance of a profit. A limited edition car that you bought because it's rare, and you don't drive it, could be an investment. Any car that is put to practical use has no chance of not losing value.

That's why he put "investment" in quotes, and stated only that a new car is a better investment than other products purchased new - like cell phones and computers.

[Logan]

That's why he put "investment" in quotes, and stated only that a new car is a better investment than other products purchased new - like cell phones and computers.

I'm not trying to pick on Rizon, but I can put anything in quotes...it doesn't change the meaning of the word. When a car loses 20% of its value once you start putting miles on it, it's not just the money you're losing when you re-sell it...you're factoring in the money you've spent on it as well that you're never going to see again. I can go buy a decent TV, open the box, and then sell it, and I might not lose as much percentage-wise as a new car. That's not an investment either, no matter what punctuation you want to put around it.

[Schmidty]

Buying a new car is idiotic unless you are A)Vain, B)Rich, C)Scared of germs, and D)Know absolutely zero about cars.

For a normal person who actually knows how to look up a vehicle's history, thoroughly check (or have a mechanic friend check) it's condition, and has the patience to find the right one, purchasing used is the most intelligent thing to do.

[Logan]

Buying a new car is idiotic unless you are A)Vain, B)Rich, C)Scared of germs, and D)Know absolutely zero about cars.

For normal people who actually know how to look up a vehicle's history, thoroughly check (or have a mechanic friend check) it's condition, and has the patience to find the right one, purchasing used is the most intelligent thing to do.

Come on, that's not fair. I'm not rich or vain, but it doesn't make me stupid to buy a new car. The average person wastes money on plenty of unnecessary things.

I'll change your statement: buying a new car is idiotic if you're only buying it for the usefulness of the vehicle...to get from Point A to Point B. Actually enjoying a car doesn't make you vain. And when you're spending a lot of hard-earned money, you should be getting some enjoyment out of it.

[Schmidty]

I'll change your statement: buying a new car is idiotic if you're only buying it for the usefulness of the vehicle...to get from Point A to Point B. Actually enjoying a car doesn't make you vain. And when you're spending a lot of hard-earned money, you should be getting some enjoyment out of it.

Although I don't understand how a new car is more enjoyable, I think you make a good point.

[CU Tiger]

My ex-father-in-law sold me on the idea of never financing a car payment a few years ago. He believes that the only thing that should be financed is a home. He puts money in a savings account earmarked for buying a car or making repairs to his current vehicle. He keeps the vehicle until it has no value. He then goes buy an used vehicle with cash, which can help when he haggles. He also takes the car to a mechanic and pay them to give a full inspection. Works pretty well for him, so I going to use the same philosophy.

Dave Ramsey follower?
Thats pretty much exactly what I do, though not where I got the idea from. I

Yeah, that's my situation. I drive 100 miles round trip every day. I don't fix cars and I'm one of those people that simply can't handle a situation where I even feel remotely like my car won't get me to where I want to go.

Car payment is fine. I don't have kids, I don't want any..and I don't drink or have tons of major bills. And I really like my car.

So..to each their own, I guess.


I drive 130 miles round trip and often do additional driving for my job. 65k/ year is not unheard of. I use the exact opposite logic. Whatever I drive I destroy. There is no way I am going to spend much on my commute car. 8-10k at most and it will last 2-4 years and then be sold for 3-5k (where most decent cars will bottom honestly).
Honestly cars are made so well today there really aren't many pieces of junk out there. Most any decent vehicle that is maintained will last 200k miles. Not to mention, a replacement engine will generally cost around $2500 (everything else less) so if I save 10k by buying a couple year old car, I can replace the motor 4 times and still be even money.

Buying a new car is idiotic unless you are A)Vain, B)Rich, C)Scared of germs, and D)Know absolutely zero about cars.

For a normal person who actually knows how to look up a vehicle's history, thoroughly check (or have a mechanic friend check) it's condition, and has the patience to find the right one, purchasing used is the most intelligent thing to do.

I wouldnt go so far as to call it idiotic, but definitely financially irresponsible. We all waste money somewhere, just make sure you realize you are wasting money.

Avg US car payment is 375/month. Pay that from 25-65 and invest it at 12% (fairly safe return) and it comes to around 3 million....better be a nice car.

I gave up on car payments several years ago when I read the book The Millionaire Next Door interesting to learn that the average deca-millionaire buys a 2-3 year old car and pays cash. And we are talking about folks who could afford basically any car payment. Wonder how they got rich?

I would never call anyone stupidd for wanting a new car. But it will certainly hurt your financial success, and severly impact your long term prosperity.

[Young Drachma]

I've learned over the years that this is one of those subjects that people really have a lot of passion about and there isn't any convincing them that there is any other way to look at this issue. It's either everyone should buy a used car or they're stupid.

Whatever works, I suppose.

[molson]

Avg US car payment is 375/month. Pay that from 25-65 and invest it at 12% (fairly safe return) and it comes to around 3 million....better be a nice car.



Used cars aren't free though. If an average new car payment is 375/month, what's a reliable used car payment - 225/month? That's a new car for the extra cost of expanded cable TV & high speed internet.

Again, no car payment would be ideal, anyone would do that if they could. But not all of us have $9k lying around for a reliable used car. At that point, once you have a loan, buying new isn't much of a splurge, and on average, the new buyer WILL have less maintenance expenses.

[Rizon]

Having resale value does not mean something is an investment. An investment by definition means there is a chance of a profit. A limited edition car that you bought because it's rare, and you don't drive it, could be an investment. Any car that is put to practical use has no chance of not losing value.

You're right, that's why I put it as quotes. It's a terrible word to use here and I probably shouldn't have used it at all. My point was that I always hear people saying you buy a 30k car and drive it off the lot and it loses a mammoth amount of value instantly. That's just a myth. The car I bought for 30k 2 years ago sells for 20k per KBB.

As far as the new cars vs old cars ... the first car I bought was used in 1993 for $2000. I drove it up until 2005 when I bought myself a new car and sold the old one last month. I have the money so it was no big deal financially to me. Besides, if I just saved that money my wife would have spent it all on bunk shit like shoes and purses anyways.

EDIT: I just realized some people might have different opinions on "mammoth". I hear alot of people who think they lose like 50-75% of their cars value right off the bat (which I consider mammoth).

[Peregrine]

I find the tone of this thread a bit hostile. Personally, I have an expensive new car, and I love it. But I did the research, I know my budget, I'm putting a ton away for savings and retirement, and with the rest of the money, I made a choice, and I don't regret it at all.

[wade moore]

Used cars aren't free though. If an average new car payment is 375/month, what's a reliable used car payment - 225/month? That's a new car for the extra cost of expanded cable TV & high speed internet.

Again, no car payment would be ideal, anyone would do that if they could. But not all of us have $9k lying around for a reliable used car. At that point, once you have a loan, buying new isn't much of a splurge, and on average, the new buyer WILL have less maintenance expenses.

That's my point exactly. For a majority of us, even a quality used car means a car payment.

[CU Tiger]

I dont have heartburn either way, and certainly dont think bad of people wo have a car patment, its ust not the choice I make.

As to the cost of used, yes they aren't free, but they are substantially cheaper. Look at thee above "good" example of only losing 10k in 2 years. Thats 10k less you have to save.

This big picture isnt to look at the salesman game of paymenst but look at impact to net worth. What is out there looming over you. If you have a 30k car loan even if the payment is $50/month you OWE 30k.

Like I said initially its a lifestyle choice. We make far from extravagant salaries, yet I have enough in un committed capital (in a money market/mutual fund not tied into a 401k) that I could stop working for ~2 years and be fine. As a small business owner I have to prepare for downturns, I cant count a paycheck always being there. Hoperfully by 3/08 I will have no house payment either. Then its time to pile up cash.

[molson]

I find the tone of this thread a bit hostile.

Ya, I was a little taken aback when the word "idiotic" entered the discussion.

[wade moore]

I dont have heartburn either way, and certainly dont think bad of people wo have a car patment, its ust not the choice I make.

As to the cost of used, yes they aren't free, but they are substantially cheaper. Look at thee above "good" example of only losing 10k in 2 years. Thats 10k less you have to save.

This big picture isnt to look at the salesman game of paymenst but look at impact to net worth. What is out there looming over you. If you have a 30k car loan even if the payment is $50/month you OWE 30k.

Like I said initially its a lifestyle choice. We make far from extravagant salaries, yet I have enough in un committed capital (in a money market/mutual fund not tied into a 401k) that I could stop working for ~2 years and be fine. As a small business owner I have to prepare for downturns, I cant count a paycheck always being there. Hoperfully by 3/08 I will have no house payment either. Then its time to pile up cash.

Good on you, but you're in a pretty small minority that can afford to be in that situation.

[Lathum]

I find the tone of this thread a bit hostile. Personally, I have an expensive new car, and I love it. But I did the research, I know my budget, I'm putting a ton away for savings and retirement, and with the rest of the money, I made a choice, and I don't regret it at all.

same thing for us.

Schmidty, I don't consider myself or my fiance "idiots" for buying a new car. I realize we will always owe more then the car is worth until it is paid off but IMO having the piece of mind that nothing will go wrong, having the 100,000 warrenty, etc is worth it to us. We can afford it so why not.

Am I an idiot for having digital cable?
Am I an idiot for high speed internet?
Am I an idiot for buying coke instead of RC cola?

I can keep going if you like...:rolleyes:

[FrogMan]

Avg US car payment is 375/month. Pay that from 25-65 and invest it at 12% (fairly safe return) and it comes to around 3 million....better be a nice car.

couple things I don't understand or don't think are right with blanket a statement like that.

1) if you want to avoid financing a car, you have to put some money aside, if you do that, you can not invest it. You can't have your cake and eat it too...

2) Maybe I'm totally clueless but I wish I was able to get a fairly safe return at 12%. I mean, consistently, over 40 years, you really can get 12% return???

I'm like Wade, I have a long commute, through mostly country roads with not too many services to help me out if I have car trouble. Paying for something that will not break down is worth it to me. May not be to you, and I don't think it makes me an idiot for that. Just what I chose to do...

FM

[Warhammer]

Being in sales and able to put 80k on a car in a year, I will buy a new car in a heartbeat. I have heard enough horror stories about used cars to not be willing to take the risk on buying one. Its one thing if my car breaks down 10 miles from the house, it is another story if I am in Wilmot, AR. I would get killed by the tow charges, much less having to worry about where to get the car fixed, etc., etc.

That said, another issue is that my car must be kept clean as I never know when I will be taking customers out to dinner/lunch. So, I need to have a car in as good of shape as I can get, and then maintain that state. It is much easier to find a new car than used in such a state.

Finally, I will absolutely run my car into the ground before I get a new one. A car is an expense, not an investment. As such, you want to get the most mileage you can out of that expense.

[molson]

This big picture isnt to look at the salesman game of paymenst but look at impact to net worth. What is out there looming over you. If you have a 30k car loan even if the payment is $50/month you OWE 30k.



But again, buying used, that's still a 10k loan for most people (instead of a
13k loan for a low-end used car). Used v. New isn't a decision of borrow v. own.

Saving for a used car is great, but most people buy cars when they absolutely have to. If my car dies, I need another one within a day or two unless I want to drive a rental to work every day. The reserarch and preparation in getting the "right" used car isn't an option. New is the safest bet, especially when we're talking an extra $100 or so a month.

[Bee]

couple things I don't understand or don't think are right with blanket a statement like that.

1) if you want to avoid financing a car, you have to put some money aside, if you do that, you can not invest it. You can't have your cake and eat it too...

2) Maybe I'm totally clueless but I wish I was able to get a fairly safe return at 12%. I mean, consistently, over 40 years, you really can get 12% return???

I'm like Wade, I have a long commute, through mostly country roads with not too many services to help me out if I have car trouble. Paying for something that will not break down is worth it to me. May not be to you, and I don't think it makes me an idiot for that. Just what I chose to do...

FM


I'd be willing to invest a couple million into a 12% safe return investment. :D

[wade moore]

I didn't even notice the 12% "safe" investment..

Sign me up too!

[Subby]

Buying a new car is idiotic unless you are A)Vain, B)Rich, C)Scared of germs, and D)Know absolutely zero about cars.

For a normal person who actually knows how to look up a vehicle's history, thoroughly check (or have a mechanic friend check) it's condition, and has the patience to find the right one, purchasing used is the most intelligent thing to do.
You are very entertaining.

[Logan]

I didn't even notice the 12% "safe" investment..

Sign me up too!

The average rate of return of the S&P 500 over the last 25-30 years is between 10.5 and 12%. So yes, you could make that much if you invested in the index fund. That doesn't make it "safe" of course, and I question whether CU meant "safe" as in "an estimate" or "risk-free." Hopefully it's the former. To get that rate of return, you have to be able to deal with the swings. For example, in 1997 the return was over 30%. But in 2002, it was -23% (and an FYI, this wasn't just because of 9/11...the economy was already in bad shape if you remember). If you put $10,000 into the S&P on 1/1/00, it would have been worth $6,000 at YE02. But if you decided, "hell, I'm buying low" and popped another $10,000 into your portfolio. that $16m would be worth over $25m in 3 years.

Point being, yes you can obtain those returns if you keep your money parked over a long enough time period. In no way is it a guarantee that it will earn that rate...there's just not enough historical data for that.

[Lathum]

The average rate of return of the S&P 500 over the last 25-30 years is between 10.5 and 12%. So yes, you could make that much if you invested in the index fund. That doesn't make it "safe" of course, and I question whether CU meant "safe" as in "an estimate" or "risk-free." Hopefully it's the former. To get that rate of return, you have to be able to deal with the swings. For example, in 1997 the return was over 30%. But in 2002, it was -23% (and an FYI, this wasn't just because of 9/11...the economy was already in bad shape if you remember). If you put $10,000 into the S&P on 1/1/00, it would have been worth $6,000 at YE02. But if you decided, "hell, I'm buying low" and popped another $10,000 into your portfolio. that $16m would be worth over $25m in 3 years.

Point being, yes you can obtain those returns if you keep your money parked over a long enough time period. In no way is it a guarantee that it will earn that rate...there's just not enough historical data for that.

and then yoou can ride your bike to the bank and collect your money :D

[Logan]

By the way, what was the original point of this thread? To get everyone to list their "things they know they don't want?" Otherwise I have no clue what the point of the title was.

You must have really pissed people off if you threadjacked your own thread with the original post.

[molson]

By the way, what was the original point of this thread? To get everyone to list their "things they know they don't want?" Otherwise I have no clue what the point of the title was.



I'll try to move things along then.

I know I don't want herpes.

[Lathum]

I know I agree with Molson

[Logan]

I'll try to move things along then.

I know I don't want herpes.

I know I agree with Molson

So, following the thread title, that means (you) know for sure that (you) don't want to agree with Molson.

Don't come back to Jersey, herpes-boy.

[Shkspr]

I know I don't want herpes.

So we know where molson stands on the "used" vs. "new" debate.

[st.cronin]

I know I don't want my girlfriend buying any more candles. Really, we have enough now.

[B & B]

Threadjacking on this forum? Surely, you jest.


Yeah, the thread wasnt about how some folks have a car payment, its that I know that I dont want one, and I never will have one.

Here's another thing that I know for sure I dont want - a boss.

Dont need some overpaid idiotic blowhard telling me what to do. No thanks.

[Schmidty]

same thing for us.

Schmidty, I don't consider myself or my fiance "idiots" for buying a new car. I realize we will always owe more then the car is worth until it is paid off but IMO having the piece of mind that nothing will go wrong, having the 100,000 warrenty, etc is worth it to us. We can afford it so why not.

Am I an idiot for having digital cable?
Am I an idiot for high speed internet?
Am I an idiot for buying coke instead of RC cola?

I can keep going if you like...:rolleyes:

I'm just jealous because I'm poor and bitter.