WNBA Mock Draft

[Butter]

Aw, crap, we're too late!

How long is their season again, like 7 weeks?

[bulletsponge]

they still play?

[stevew]

The "best of 3" playoffs/finals always made me laugh. That's barely a playoff series in any other sport. They'd be better off just playing single elimination.

[Easy Mac]

I think you meant "Mock WNBA Draft"

[rkmsuf]

I got a hankerin for some Pat Summitt.

[Honolulu_Blue]

SUCK IT, FOOLS!!

DEEEETROIT BASKETBAAAAAAL!

http://www.need4sheed.com/images/shock2.jpg

[JPhillips]

I'll take the one who can dunk.

[Young Drachma]

Too bad Candice Parker didn't get to declare early. She wanted to, but that league won't let you join until you've been in college four years or you graduate. They kept trying to say last night during the women's championship that she had offers of over $1m in endorsements to play overseas.

[Butter]

SUCK IT, FOOLS!!

DEEEETROIT BASKETBAAAAAAL!

http://www.need4sheed.com/images/shock2.jpg

Still can't believe that 60 footer he hit the other night.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Too bad Candice Parker didn't get to declare early. She wanted to, but that league won't let you join until you've been in college four years or you graduate. They kept trying to say last night during the women's championship that she had offers of over $1m in endorsements to play overseas.

Not sure what you're on about here. There were never any strong indications that she wanted out, if anything she knew that she needed to get stronger physically & improve her outside shooting consistency. Next year? Yeah, I'd say she's gone. But barring injury, she's only going to get better & those endorsement offers from Russia & Korea probably aren't going anywhere, plus she'll have the WNBA as option if she chooses to stay in the U.S.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meanwhile, I thought it was interesting to see Ivory Latta slip all the way to the 10th pick (Nancy Liberman had her going 2nd overall).

[Young Drachma]

Meanwhile, I thought it was interesting to see Ivory Latta slip all the way to the 10th pick (Nancy Liberman had her going 2nd overall).

10th?! Wow. That's pretty crazy. She was one of the best players in the country all year.

[Young Drachma]

Not sure what you're on about here. There were never any strong indications that she wanted out, if anything she knew that she needed to get stronger physically & improve her outside shooting consistency. Next year? Yeah, I'd say she's gone. But barring injury, she's only going to get better & those endorsement offers from Russia & Korea probably aren't going anywhere, plus she'll have the WNBA as option if she chooses to stay in the U.S.

I'm just saying that's what they were saying. I don't know that going overseas would have benefitted her at all. I just think the media was excited that there was a female player that excited them enough to talk that way at all.

Not that she had any real reason to leave or a ton to gain by NOT going to the WNBA, though admittedly it seems these players go from the big stage of college, to being engulfed by the anonymity of the WNBA year after year.

But she's a pretty special talent, no doubt about that.

[st.cronin]

Noah's gotta be the top pick, right?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm just saying that's what they were saying. I don't know that going overseas would have benefitted her at all.

Okay, I misread you then. I caught some of that talk early in the game last night but by the 2nd half, they were already backing away from the "she may be going" vibe they initially gave off.

As for Latta, I think her tournament performance may have hurt her stock somewhat (she actually went 11th, not 10th, I misspoke earlier), enough to drop her behind the scorer Geralds from Purdue (7th pick). The surprise to me is that a junior college guard was taken at #8. And another guard, from UCLA, was taken 5th.

I know that I would rather have had Harding, and unless I was specifically looking for a push-the-ball PG, I would rather have had Price among the guards as well. I didn't see the UCLA shooter enough to have an opinion on her, and no idea about the JUCO (who apparently had a great workout for the scouts). I think Latta will fit in as a player that Detroit coach Bill Laimbeer will like (although like him, I think most everybody else will end up hating her).

[Ksyrup]

I think you meant "Mock WNBA Draft"

And the great thing is that there is no deadline for when this ends.

[Logan]

Too bad Candice Parker didn't get to declare early. She wanted to, but that league won't let you join until you've been in college four years or you graduate. They kept trying to say last night during the women's championship that she had offers of over $1m in endorsements to play overseas.

I found it more amazing that she had to declare my 10am on the day after the championship. Geez, give her some time to celebrate first. Why the mad rush for the WNBA draft to take place on a Wednesday?

(all this is assuming she was on course to graduate and the decision would be relevant)

[Young Drachma]

I found it more amazing that she had to declare my 10am on the day after the championship. Geez, give her some time to celebrate first. Why the mad rush for the WNBA draft to take place on a Wednesday?

(all this is assuming she was on course to graduate and the decision would be relevant)

I think the idea is to keep themselves in the "glow" of the women's tournament. Frankly, it's too late by the next day, though I can't think of any other time to do it.

This article (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/04/sports/basketball/04wnba.html) talks about the whole WNBA and how the money isn't going to entice many to skip school.

A player must meet one of four criteria to be eligible for the draft: Be 22 years old, graduate from college, complete her eligibility, or play at least two seasons for another professional league.

No player in the 11 years of the W.N.B.A. has left college early to join the league. Technicalities would allow Candace Parker of Tennessee and Sylvia Fowles of Louisiana State to enter the draft after their junior seasons, but both have said they would return to college for their senior seasons.

Under the league’s collective bargaining agreement, the first four players picked in Wednesday’s draft in Cleveland each will receive contracts worth $43,200 this season. The next four players will be paid $39,960 and the remaining five first-round picks will earn $35,640.

The minimum salary for a player with no more than three years of experience is $32,400, and $49,134 for players with four or more years. No player — rookie or veteran — may make more than $93,000, and each team’s payroll is capped at $728,000.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I found it more amazing that she had to declare my 10am on the day after the championship. Geez, give her some time to celebrate first. Why the mad rush for the WNBA draft to take place on a Wednesday? (all this is assuming she was on course to graduate and the decision would be relevant)

As for the Wednesday draft, I believe it's the WNBA trying to link up with the Final Four. Plus, their season starts in just a few weeks.

Meanwhile, Parker is not only on track for graduation but is actually ahead of schedule. From an espn.com article, explaining what the university detailed in a press release a few days ago

Although she has two more years of NCAA eligibility, Parker is academically a junior and on track to graduate in December 2007. Jennings expects Parker will finish out the 2007-08 season as a graduate student.

WNBA rules prohibit players from entering the draft until their classes complete their senior year -- and Parker's classmates, juniors Alexis Hornbuckle and Nicky Anosike, won't graduate until May 2008.

edit to add: picking up on DC's mention of the salaries, from a Knoxville newspaper article
A majority of WNBA players take advantage of the leagues overseas, which generally run from November until April. A player of Parker's caliber would generate an estimated $400,000 to $643,200 if she signed with the WNBA followed by a top-tier overseas contract.

And that doesn't count her possible endorsements, which could be the highest for any women's player in history.

[DaddyTorgo]

wow. serious discussion of the WNBA. what is this board coming to?

i kid...i kid. sorta

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Liberty games can be fun and scary at the same time... thousands of lesbians looking at you with hatred just because your penis is attached and functional... :eek:

[Leonidas]

they still play?They got a coach in the Hall of Fame the same year as Phil Jackson. Go figure.

[Logan]

As for the Wednesday draft, I believe it's the WNBA trying to link up with the Final Four. Plus, their season starts in just a few weeks.

Understandable, but are they really capitalizing on the FF by drafting at 1PM on a Wednesday? You can't find a channel that will air it at 6? I only happened to come across it because I was working from home yesterday. Are WNBA fans home midday?

Meanwhile, Parker is not only on track for graduation but is actually ahead of schedule. From an espn.com article, explaining what the university detailed in a press release a few days ago

I could've sworn that the "sideline reporter" the other night said she wasn't on track. That's what I was basing it on, so I could've misheard.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I could've sworn that the "sideline reporter" the other night said she wasn't on track. That's what I was basing it on, so I could've misheard.

I remember at least one mention about that, and it was sort of confusing. If it's the same one, it's where they mentioned the university's statement of their basic position that she was ineligible for the draft because the anticipated graduation based on her enrollment fell outside the WNBA rules. What could have made Parker's case interesting is that she's ahead of schedule academically & is a junior in terms of school but only a sophomore in terms of athletic eligibility (I think Fowles at LSU has a similar situation).

I got the feeling that the school wasn't really talking about Parker so much as they were sending a warning shot in the general direction of the league that they would challenge a draft declaration in a case like this if it came up again in the future

[Logan]

Yep, that's what I heard. Thanks for the clarification.

[Ryche]

Go Lynx, way to trade to get that number one pick...

Now maybe if they had done something like that a couple years ago to get Lindsey Whalen and Janelle McCarville, the only 2 female basketball players this state has ever heard of, they might have a few fans attending their games.

[Young Drachma]

Candice Parker will fade from the bright lights and packed arena of Tennessee basketball to the obscurity of women's basketball. The LA Sparks picked her in the draft today with the first pick. At least she's going to be able to be showcased in a major market. Whether anyone will bother to watch is anyone's guess, but it's a shame if she ends up like all of the other players who were supposed to revitalize the game and make it worth watching. She's better than any of them, but it seems the WNBA is a black hole where these great players seem to go to fade into obscurity.

[Young Drachma]

Entire 2008 draft selections (it's 3 rounds) (http://www.wnba.com/draft2008/draft_board.html)

[JeeberD]

Two girls off the best UTEP womens team ever were selected. Congrats Natasha and Izabela!

[stevew]

I'm shocked woman's professional basketball is popular anywhere(800k overseas?). Parker is the best player I've seen in awhile though.

[Cringer]

A’Quonesia?

Sounds like amnesia caused by water.

And yes Dark Cloud, that chick I never heard of who went #1 overall will fade away now.

Also, I didn't even know Houston had a team until I looked at that list of draft picks.

[Young Drachma]

Becky Hammon (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=3336490&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos2) who plays for San Antonio will play for Russia in the Olympics. Interesting story.

[Young Drachma]

A’Quonesia?

Sounds like amnesia caused by water.

And yes Dark Cloud, that chick I never heard of who went #1 overall will fade away now.

Also, I didn't even know Houston had a team until I looked at that list of draft picks.

Well, Candice Parker is relatively well known if you're a Sportscenter watcher who follows college basketball with regularity, because she dunked in high school, has dunked in a few games and of course, has rounded out her game and is a bonafide star.

[korme]

The Comets won like the first four WNBA titles, surely you have heard that before Cringer.

[JeeberD]

Also, I didn't even know Houston had a team until I looked at that list of draft picks.

Learn your history, son! :mad:

Four-peat, baby!


Becky Hammon (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=3336490&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos2) who plays for San Antonio will play for Russia in the Olympics. Interesting story.

Interesting. I saw Hammon play back when I attended CSU...I always thought she was a heck of a player, and the Rams had a solid team back then.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Best part of today's draft was seeing all five eligible players from UT drafted and having both Parker & Bobbitt go to LA where they'll join last years RO Y (and former Lady Vol) Sidney Spencer. Also cool to have only the second player ever drafted from GT.

[stevew]

Why did Holsclaw retire? She was kind of a dissapointment in the WNBA anyways.

[Emiliano]

I'm shocked woman's professional basketball is popular anywhere(800k overseas?). Parker is the best player I've seen in awhile though.

Russian teams are throwing TONS of money to star players. To give you an idea, former Famila Schio forward and MVP of the last FIBA World Championship, Penny Taylor (http://www.wnba.com/playerfile/penny_taylor/index.html), made over 500k this year playing with Ekaterinburg. Consider that in Schio (one of the Italian's top team, couple of millions € of budget) she was making around 250k. Diana Taurasi is making that kind of money, maybe even more, in the Spartak Moscow Region. And these are only 2 examples.

It's perfectly reasonable to think that Candice Parker will land a very, very high contract from one of those clubs.

[albionmoonlight]

Why did Holsclaw retire? She was kind of a dissapointment in the WNBA anyways.

IIRC, she had crippling mental illness.

[Cringer]

The Comets won like the first four WNBA titles, surely you have heard that before Cringer.

Learn your history, son! :mad:

Four-peat, baby!



Maybe I just forgot about them, but it seems like I have never really heard of them. They won 4 in a row eh? I guess that is impressive. Still, I won't be trying to catch any of their games anytime soon. The Astros and the Dynamo though, I will make the 5 hour drive for that next month probably.

[rjolley]

Atlanta has an expansion team. May take the girls out to see them play. They enjoyed the Hawks gave last weekend.

[Young Drachma]

Candace Parker draft selection and a little montage of them talking about what she does well and all that. She's no joke.

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[stevew]

yeah, but the league is

[JS19]

how much money do WNBA players make?

[Neuqua]

Have I mentioned she grew up in the same city as me and is still the only person ever to dunk on me? Man, I got killed.

[Young Drachma]

how much money do WNBA players make?

Umm..not very much. About 40-95k for the season, that's why so many of the stars go overseas where they can make six figures.

[korme]

I don't know if it is appropriate or not to say that I'd tap that ass, but I'm going to say it.

[Radii]

I don't know if it is appropriate or not to say that I'd tap that ass, but I'm going to say it.

I think its perfectly appropriate and an accurate representation of my thoughts as well.

[Vince]

how much money do WNBA players make?

There's a detailed post regarding WNBA salaries about 20 posts before yours.

[kingnebwsu]

I don't know if it is appropriate or not to say that I'd tap that ass, but I'm going to say it.

Son, I've been married for over 30 years...but I would have gone there. Hell yeah I would have.

[korme]

Neb, what is that quote from? Aren't you in your 20's?

[Cringer]

I could take her 1 on 1. A real man doesn't lose to a woman.

[Neuqua]

I could take her 1 on 1. A real man doesn't lose to a woman.

:(

[JonInMiddleGA]

You purchased 3 tickets to:
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Atlanta Dream vs. Los Angeles Sparks
Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA
Sun, May 25, 2008 03:00 PM
Seat location: section 118, row T, seats 5-7

[rjolley]

How much were those tickets? I may have to take the girls to that one.

[JonInMiddleGA]

How much were those tickets? I may have to take the girls to that one.

$25 each (plus junk fees) for those, which are kind of mid-range seats in my opinion. Gets kind of pricey IMO, especially for lower bowl sideline views.

There was an interesting set of tickets in the $19 range, labeled as row NN ... they appear to be the back of what's normally press row but none of the seating charts I could find show an "NN", that section ends at "LL", so I wasn't sure where/what they would actually be, so I went with these instead.

We wanted to go to the pre-season game vs LA on Sat 5/3 too -- all seats only $10 -- but my wife had a previous commitment she couldn't really get out of.

[MikeVic]

Hey caa someone post pics of cute WNBA players?

[rjolley]

Hmmmm, May 3rd. We might be able to make that one. I'll have to check it out.

[Young Drachma]

Hey caa someone post pics of cute WNBA players?

From some other forum (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41600)

[MikeVic]

Thanks. I think this would be Pumpy as a WNBA player:

http://chi.southwest.tn.edu/images/0607wbbshields.jpg

[Young Drachma]

Here are the draft portraits from yesterday (http://www.wnba.com/gallery/wnba_draftportraits/20080409_1.html)

[watravaler]

The price of decent WNBA tickets in Chicago makes me laugh. Seriously, are you kidding me? It's cheaper to see a Blackhawks/Cubs/WhiteSox game...

I'd love to take my niece and her friends, and I probably will get talked into it, but I'm hoping scalpers will be dumping good tickets for 10c on the $ before the game...


http://www.wnba.com/sky/tickets/single.html

What is the strategy here? I was given tickets last year, and there were probably 1,500-2,500 at the game, so I can't quite wrap my head around their prices...

[JonInMiddleGA]

What is the strategy here?

Best I can figure is that they aren't all that worried about single-game ticket sales, just maximizing revenue from corporate season ticket sales.

I follow women's college basketball at least as closely as the men's game at this point, so I supposed I'm at least a secondary candidate for future WNBA fandom (behind affluent lesbians, which really do seem to be the bulk of the fanbase ... not that there's anything wrong with that ;) ) but realistically it's something that I'd consider paying minor league hockey ticket prices for, not NHL prices. But alas the price structure seems to be closer to the latter than the former.

That's certainly their right to determine. But they're smoking crack if they believe I'll ever pay that for more than a game or two a year. And it seems kind of short-sighted, since I'm basically paying to see (and cheer for) former UT/GT players and have no built-in loyalty to the WNBA home team outside of those players. Seems like that would make it tough to sell merchandise.

[scooter]

Considering that each WNBA team only has 17 regular season home games and you begin to understand why they need to set their prices the way they do to make any money.

And stevew, why do you say that the league is a joke? I don't think that's fair. These are the best women basketball players in the world. They are athletes and they probably understand the x's and o's of basketball better than their male counterparts (they have to because the difference in speed and agility between women is much smaller than it is for men). The women's game is actually better fundamentally to watch, in my opinion, because they aren't relying on their athleticism as much as they are their offensive and defensive systems. Now if you are saying that you aren't entertained by the WNBA, that's fine, but that's subjective. Calling it a joke is just a cop-out.

[BishopMVP]

It's a joke that David Stern and ESPN/ABC force so much of it onto TV. The league and the people behind it have these delusions of grandeur, and that's why the backlash is so strong. (For me personally, 3 of my favorite sports to watch struggle for time on Sportscenter - soccer, lacrosse and hurling, but yet we're guaranteed every WNBA highlight. Although the problems with ESPN go much deeper than that.)

[Cringer]

From some other forum (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41600)


So no hot players? You could have just said so instead of making me go through 4 pages to find it out.:mad:

[BishopMVP]

So no hot players? You could have just said so instead of making me go through 4 pages to find it out.:mad:Ehhh... Sue Bird, Candace Parker and Becky Hammon (at least before she became a Communist traitor) are all solid 6.5-7's in my book.

The people posting Diana Taurasi and WNBA Pumpy..... dear god I'm shuddering.

[Radii]

I have had a huge crush on Sue Bird for a long time.

[BishopMVP]

They are athletes and they probably understand the x's and o's of basketball better than their male counterparts (they have to because the difference in speed and agility between women is much smaller than it is for men). The women's game is actually better fundamentally to watch, in my opinion, because they aren't relying on their athleticism as much as they are their offensive and defensive systems.Now that I think about it, this (or more specifically the first half) is also a dumb argument, and part of what annoys me about WNBA supporters. For every LeBron and Dwight Howard out there with superior athleticism, there are 9 more guys on that court who are below them athletically. I know it's hard to think of any NBA player as being below average athletically, but by definition half of them have to fall into that category, and if they're surviving clearly they understand the game unbelievably well. I've seen my share of dumb athletes who didn't understand basketball fundamentals here in Boston - Ricky Davis, Marcus Banks, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson on defense. There's a reason they're out of the league or on losing teams while guys like David West, Paul Pierce, Shane Battier and Andre Miller are borderline all-stars.

The reason the NBA doesn't run complex set offenses because the 24 second clock doesn't allow it, not because the players are too dumb.

This argument is as weak as the one about how girls shoot better because they can hit more from outside. No shit, they're using a smaller ball with the same size rim. They also shoot off the shoulder, which is twice as easy (and 100x as easy to block.)

[scooter]

Now that I think about it, this (or more specifically the first half) is also a dumb argument, and part of what annoys me about WNBA supporters. For every LeBron and Dwight Howard out there with superior athleticism, there are 9 more guys on that court who are below them athletically. I know it's hard to think of any NBA player as being below average athletically, but by definition half of them have to fall into that category, and if they're surviving clearly they understand the game unbelievably well. I've seen my share of dumb athletes who didn't understand basketball fundamentals here in Boston - Ricky Davis, Marcus Banks, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson on defense. There's a reason they're out of the league or on losing teams while guys like David West, Paul Pierce, Shane Battier and Andre Miller are borderline all-stars.

The reason the NBA doesn't run complex set offenses because the 24 second clock doesn't allow it, not because the players are too dumb.

This argument is as weak as the one about how girls shoot better because they can hit more from outside. No shit, they're using a smaller ball with the same size rim. They also shoot off the shoulder, which is twice as easy (and 100x as easy to block.)

You completely misread my comments. I didn't say that NBA players are stupid or that WNBA players are smarter. I said that that WNBA players have to rely on their systems more than men do.

If you look at the best WNBA player and a deep bench player, the difference in speed and agility is much smaller than it is for NBA players. Therefore you don't see that many female players blowing by their defender with a great first step. There is a lot of ball movement and jumpshooting. Centers are usually 6'-3" to 6'-5" (with the occasional oddity) and most of them have similar skill sets, so you don't see many dominant inside players. The women's game is less physical and more strategic, not because they are smarter, but because the athletic spectrum is narrower (but this is changing as the league becomes more established and the talent gets better).

And as far as your last part, I've never made that argument, and I don't think I would. I've seen Ray Allen shoot :)

[rkmsuf]

As far as the 'strategic' element, do people really enjoy watching them pass the ball around the perimeter struggling to come up with ways to get a shot?

Maybe they pick really well. That's wonderful but ultra boring.

[scooter]

As far as the 'strategic' element, do people really enjoy watching them pass the ball around the perimeter struggling to come up with ways to get a shot?

Maybe they pick really well. That's wonderful but ultra boring.

My wife really enjoys it. She grew up playing basketball, but she was a bench player and spent a lot of time watching other people play. She really enjoys the chess match of choosing a system to offset what the other team is doing. I think she should really become a coach.

I think it looks a bit like early-era mens basketball (think Hoosiers), but with a lot more missed layups. There's more of a premium on teamwork (passing to get the open shot) and less on shear physicality (dunks, etc).

As far as other people are concerned, I would say the number is small. I think I could probably back that up with some attendance statistics, but I'm not sure that's neccessary.

[stevew]

It's a joke that David Stern and ESPN/ABC force so much of it onto TV. The league and the people behind it have these delusions of grandeur, and that's why the backlash is so strong. (For me personally, 3 of my favorite sports to watch struggle for time on Sportscenter - soccer, lacrosse and hurling, but yet we're guaranteed every WNBA highlight. Although the problems with ESPN go much deeper than that.)

My position as well.


And honestly I hate the womans style of game. tons of passes, bricked jumpers and then layups. It's like john stockton 101. meh.

[rjolley]

I enjoy the women's game. It's entertaining and the good players/teams are very enjoyable to watch. I don't think the comparison to the men's game is totally fair. Women have a different physical skillset and they utilize that to play the game at a high level for them. Can an average men's player in college beat a top WNBA player? Probably 8 out of 10 times. But that doesn't mean that the WNBA game is any less enjoyable or any less legit.

It'll never be a huge success in the US, which is a shame. I enjoy the difference in styles of the NBA, WNBA, and women's and men's NCAA basketball.

[JonInMiddleGA]

tons of passes, bricked jumpers and then layups. It's like john stockton 101. meh.

The end result doesn't look all that different from the D1 men's game in that respect, just subtract the extra passing & get quite similar results.

The differences in the top 50 (which is what you can get reported from ncaa.org) this year were about 3% better for the men in FG%, 3P%, and FT%. The women had more turnovers & somewhat lower TO/A ratio but had more steals,comparable blocks, and about 2 fewer fouls per game.

I'd still say the gap in the schools at the #150 or #250 level is greater on the women's side, parity at the top has improved over the past decade but there's still a long way to go (hopefully it never fully gets there AFAIC). On the whole though, I think what Scooter mentioned about his wife enjoying the chess match aspect rings pretty true for me as well. There seems to be a greater premium on execution as well, probably because there isn't quite as much physicality around to overcome poor execution.

[BishopMVP]

You completely misread my comments. I didn't say that NBA players are stupid or that WNBA players are smarter. I said that that WNBA players have to rely on their systems more than men do.

If you look at the best WNBA player and a deep bench player, the difference in speed and agility is much smaller than it is for NBA players. Therefore you don't see that many female players blowing by their defender with a great first step. There is a lot of ball movement and jumpshooting. Centers are usually 6'-3" to 6'-5" (with the occasional oddity) and most of them have similar skill sets, so you don't see many dominant inside players. The women's game is less physical and more strategic, not because they are smarter, but because the athletic spectrum is narrower (but this is changing as the league becomes more established and the talent gets better).Sorry for lumping your point with other WNBA defenders, but I still think you're off on the main reason for the difference in style of play. It's not that there's some huge difference in relative athletic ability in the NBA compared to the WNBA, it's the rules and how games are called. Allow hand checks and zones, call palming violations, and suddenly a quick first step becomes much less important. Look at college - if you wanted to see a less athletic team setting up jumpshooters that relied on team defense, Davidson or Drake fits the bill there. Even Memphis, which was probably the most athletic, freewheeling team this past year, ran a very intricate offensive set with specific places for people to go and ways to react to teammates movements that had to be in perfect sync. It might look like a pick-up game at first, but I guarantee there is a ton of chess match going on there.

[BishopMVP]

The end result doesn't look all that different from the D1 men's game in that respect, just subtract the extra passing & get quite similar results.

The differences in the top 50 (which is what you can get reported from ncaa.org) this year were about 3% better for the men in FG%, 3P%, and FT%.And I'm sure if we made the ball even smaller (26.5 perhaps?) women could shoot even higher percentages than their male counterparts.

[MikeVic]

They should wear volleyball outfits. I'd watch some games then.

[Pumpy Tudors]

All I've gotten out of this thread is that none of you think I would make a pretty woman. Horrible. Just horrible.

[rkmsuf]

All I've gotten out of this thread is that none of you think I would make a pretty woman. Horrible. Just horrible.

wait, you're a dude?

[scooter]

MikeVic's comment about volleyball outfits actually triggered a thought in my mind. I think comparing mens and womens basketball is a little like comparing mens and womens volleyball. Both are played in the same way, but the womens game seems slowed down to the point where you can follow the play easier. I can't stand watching mens volleyball, but womens volleyball is very watchable.

I don't want to get too far off the subject though. I guess I'm just able to follow the changes in offense and defense easier at the slower pace.

I understand that the NBA and college game are very system-oriented, but I also know that I don't see too many WNBA teams clearing out so their star can go one-on-one with their defender.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And I'm sure if we made the ball even smaller (26.5 perhaps?) women could shoot even higher percentages than their male counterparts.

{shrug} If it goes in, it goes in. If it clangs off the rim, it clangs off the rim. Same viewing experience regardless of the ball size.

I don't think anybody is arguing that the best women's team could go toe to toe with the best men's team, just talking about the relative watchability of the two. Like I said, at this point I find the women's college game at least equally enjoyable to the men's -- admittedly influenced by having UT to follow and to a lesser extent seeing the improvement in GT's women's program -- and in watching so much of it maybe I see the similarities more. And I'm sure that the relatively rarity of early exits on the women's side plays a part in it too. There's much more of an opportunity to watch players, develop some attachment to them, and to see them progress year to year than there is in the men's game today. How much impact that has {shrug again} I don't honestly know, but I'm pretty sure it has some.

As for the WNBA, I'm probably an interesting test case of sorts for them. I've never been able to work up more than an extremely casual interest in it, but if they're ever going to hook me at all this would be their shot. There's an expansion team being built in Atlanta, there's multiple personal favorites now collected on one team out in L.A. If they can't get me beyond checking-the-results-every-couple-of-weeks interest now, they probably never will. One thing for sure, we'll find out soon enough, season starts in just over a month.

[albionmoonlight]

Kind of off topic, but a year or so ago I was with some friends and it was a nice day, so we decided to start shooting some hoops. And I was hitting shots from all over. It was awesome, because normally I suck.

Only halfway through did my buddy inform me that we were using a woman's ball that he had in his trunk because he helped coach a girls' AAU team.

Turns out I still sucked.

[rkmsuf]

Kind of off topic, but a year or so ago I was with some friends and it was a nice day, so we decided to start shooting some hoops. And I was hitting shots from all over. It was awesome, because normally I suck.

Only halfway through did my buddy inform me that we were using a woman's ball that he had in his trunk because he helped coach a girls' AAU team.

Turns out I still sucked.

not only that but you have no feel for ball size

[albionmoonlight]

not only that but you have no feel for ball size

None. I really suck at pretty much all aspects of basketball. Which is a shame because I enjoy playing whenever I get a chance.

[Logan]

I can't stand watching mens volleyball, but womens volleyball is very watchable.

I think this just means you're not gay.

[rkmsuf]

I think this just means you're not gay.

what's your stance on men's diving?

[Huckleberry]

Can an average men's player in college beat a top WNBA player? Probably 8 out of 10 times.

Seriously? 8 out of 10? More like 10 out of 10. The women's hand speed is so much noticeably slower than the men's, that's where the difference is. If an average scholarship men's basketball player really decided to clamp down on a WNBA player, she wouldn't be able to get a good shot off. I've seen it.

The differences in the top 50 (which is what you can get reported from ncaa.org) this year were about 3% better for the men in FG%, 3P%, and FT%. The women had more turnovers & somewhat lower TO/A ratio but had more steals,comparable blocks, and about 2 fewer fouls per game.

Yes, but the women were defended by women. The men were defended by men. Not to mention that the higher steals number is mostly explained by the higher turnovers number.

I don't want anyone to think I hate women's basketball. I actually enjoy watching it from time to time, even moreso now that my 7-year-old daughter is getting into sports. We'll watch it together. I also don't think men's basketball is all that great of a spectator sport at this time, particularly the NBA. I hate what the 24 second shot clock does to the offenses.

Either way, it's silly to argue that the WNBA teams could beat even an average men's college basketball team, IMO. The first thing to consider is that they would have to use the same ball. More importantly, I honestly believe the women's team would have about 30-40% of their shot attempts blocked. Doesn't mean anything as far as women's basketball is concerned. But arguing for women's basketball by comparing and contrasting with men's basketball is a bad idea the way I see it. Argue for it based on its own merits.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yes, but the women were defended by women. The men were defended by men.

So? The point I was making was in reference to complaints about the (alleged) missed shots in the women's college game. Regardless of who's guarding whom, or the size of the ball, or whatever, the shooting percentages are quite comparable.

Not to mention that the higher steals number is mostly explained by the higher turnovers number.

Umm ... wouldn't that be the other way around?

Either way, it's silly to argue that the WNBA teams could beat even an average men's college basketball team, IMO.

Having seen enough average men's teams, I disagree.

Doesn't mean anything as far as women's basketball is concerned.

I tend to agree

But arguing for women's basketball by comparing and contrasting with men's basketball is a bad idea the way I see it.

I don't know, if the discussion is about what you find appealing/unappealing for one versus the other, seems like comparison in that regard are pretty relevant. Flamenico & 80's metal are pretty different animals but if you're trying to explain why you prefer one to the other, using one to provide a frame of reference (when the other person in the conversation is familiar with one of them) for the other seems okay to me.

[rjolley]

Actually, I say 8 out of 10 because I've seen very good women's players beat average college players 1-on-1. And I don't mean top 5% women's players like Swoopes or Leslie or Parker, I mean very good in college players. Also, I'm not talking about #8 on the depth chart at Duke or UNC, where everyone is a 4 or 5 star high school player.

The point of the whole statement is that, while the men are better at the game than the women, on average, that should not discount that the women play their brand of basketball very well. If you want to see more 1-on-1 play and a lot less structured play, watch an NBA game. If you want to watch more structured play, watch NCAA men's and women's or the WNBA. Each has its place, though the NBA's brand of basketball needs more scoring. I miss the 120 ppg team scoring averages.