Sopranos:The Final Episodes

[stevew]

So I decided to take the plunge and add HBO for the final series of Episodes of the Sopranos. Here's hoping for some great storytelling, and a solid conclusion to one of my favorite shows ever.

Final Episodes start Sunday April 8th at 9pm.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

They showed the first couple of episodes to critics and got very good reviews. Should be fun to watch the finish.

[cthomer5000]

Last season was dreadful, so I'm hoping something gets salvaged here.

[Deattribution]

Last season was dreadful, so I'm hoping something gets salvaged here.

Agreed, I'm willing to give it a chance since in the past it's been great but if it's just 12 (or 8 or however many) more episodes of dream sequences I'll be giving up on it fairly soon.

[cartman]

This isn't a new season, technically, these are considered the second half of the final season.

I've gained a better appreciation for the first half's episodes after going back and viewing them again. There appear to have been a lot of clues dropped about how the whole thing is going to wrap up.

[Karlifornia]

I thought the first half of this season was the weakest of any stretch of Sopranos episodes so far. That being said, they were still better than most everything else on television in my book.

[molson]

I wish I didn't read the spoilers.

[spleen1015]

I wish I didn't read the spoilers.

For the upcoming eposides?

[Hoya1]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I loved last season. The intricate character story lines are something that made me watch the episodes often more than once.

I cannot wait for Sunday. Long live the greatest show ever.........or something like that

[stevew]

definitely no spoilers in this thread please. Talking about a show that has already aired is one thing, but some stuff that a critics 3rd cousin's nephews sister's baby daddy heard through the grapevine about a future previewed episode is not cool.

[molson]

For the upcoming eposides?

Ya, the first two new episodes already aired at a theater for a "premiere" event, so detailed spoilers are out there, if you look. Those episodes themselves are actually floating around as well.

[spleen1015]

Ya, the first two new episodes already aired at a theater for a "premiere" event, so detailed spoilers are out there, if you look. Those episodes themselves are actually floating around as well.

I'm clarifying that is what he was talking about. I have no doubt that the episodes are on the web some where. The last season of the Wire was on the internet before the premiere on tv.

[Leonidas]

I watched the first episode of season V, concluded it was far and away the worst episode I had ever seen and haven't watched it since. I have zero desire to see anymore.

[Oilers9911]

You give up on one of the best series on TV because of one bad episode? Wow.

[JonInMiddleGA]

There appear to have been a lot of clues dropped about how the whole thing is going to wrap up.

Tony steps out of the shower & discovers he's actually a therapist married to Suzanne Pleshette?

[Leonidas]

You give up on one of the best series on TV because of one bad episode? Wow.
It was that bad. I think it was the whole Tony and Carmella obsessed by sushi angle that lost me. And since the only show on TV I watch regularly is The Wire the one of the best shows on TV angle doesn't work on me.

[Oilers9911]

Ok. I mistakenly thought you were a regular watcher and just gave up on it.

[Leonidas]

Ok. I mistakenly thought you were a regular watcher and just gave up on it.I was. I saw all of the first four seasons. In fact I loved season 4. But that first episode of season 5 was just silly bad. It insulted my intelligence as a Sopranos fan and I just refused to spend anymore time on it.

[cthomer5000]

Ok. I mistakenly thought you were a regular watcher and just gave up on it.

In all seriousness, nothing has been watching since the end of season 3. I'm pretty damn sure that when all is said and done, I'll still feel that is the case.

[Karlifornia]

It was that bad. I think it was the whole Tony and Carmella obsessed by sushi angle that lost me.


:confused:

[molson]

:confused:

Ya, I'm starting to think Leonidas thought he was watching the Sopranos, but then maybe fell asleep or something and was actually watching something else.

[Leonidas]

Ya, I'm starting to think Leonidas thought he was watching the Sopranos, but then maybe fell asleep or something and was actually watching something else.Episode one of the last season. Tony and Carmella did at least two scenes in some sushi restaraunt, practically getting orgasmic about the sushi. Carmella even seemed to be jealous when she found out Tony went without her. I most definitely saw that and thought it was far and away the dumbest thing I'd ever seen on the show. It was the same episode that ended up with Junior shooting Tony. Ring some bells now?

The show was so bad I wondered if maybe it was just an entire dream sequence, but I was assured by a friend that it wasn't and the season didn't get any better, so I decided not to watch it anymore.

[molson]

Episode one of the last season. Tony and Carmella did at least two scenes in some sushi restaraunt, practically getting orgasmic about the sushi. Carmella even seemed to be jealous when she found out Tony went without her. I most definitely saw that and thought it was far and away the dumbest thing I'd ever seen on the show. It was the same episode that ended up with Junior shooting Tony. Ring some bells now?


Ya, that rings some bells now, and now I remember that being pretty annoying, but it was a very minor part of that episode.

I still think it was a bit drastic to stop watching a show you otherwise liked before that, and that you should give that season another chance. Season 5 was definitely different, and I know a lot of people were turned off that the storylines didn't progress quickly enough, and the episodes seemed to end abruptly, but there's definitely some fun stuff there, starting with episode 3.

[Leonidas]

The problem is here in England they run the show about 9 months after it aired in the US and they show it at 10pm on Sundays. I have to be up at 5:30 am for PT. Staying up until 11 is a big hassle for me. The show better be good for me to stay up that late. That episode was horrendous. I asked some friends in the US if the season gets any better, they all said no, I stopped watching. On the flip side I am watching season 4 of The Wire on Tuesdays at 10PM and am enjoying every second of it.

[cartman]

First thoughts:


It appears, at least to me, that they are setting up for a cataclysmic implosion of the family. The talk between Tony and Bobby on the boat, the fight between them, and Bobby leaving evidence at the scene of hit. Now that the gun charge is going to be part of the RICO indictment, this are going to get a lot worse for Tony.

[Karlifornia]

First thoughts:


It appears, at least to me, that they are setting up for a cataclysmic implosion of the family. The talk between Tony and Bobby on the boat, the fight between them, and Bobby leaving evidence at the scene of hit. Now that the gun charge is going to be part of the RICO indictment, this are going to get a lot worse for Tony.


I dug this episode. Not too many shows can balance being laugh out loud funny and dramatic at the same time. There's just something about Baccala kicking Tony's ass and having a Monopoly hotel stuck to Tony's face. Come on.....don't tell me that isn't funny! Don't!

[stevew]

My first thoughts are that I absolutely hate Janice and I wish that she would have been killed off 2-3 years ago. That being said, our "heroes" are headed for a catastrophic collision with the law.

[spleen1015]

Janice sucks.

I was hoping Tony was going to whack Bobby while he was taking a leak.

[JPhillips]

Great connection to the beginning of the series with the niece and nanny singing about four little ducks.

I also loved Carm's line, "Tony is not a vindictive man."

It looks like Tony's petty vengeance on Bobbie will lead to his downfall.

[sachmo71]

While watching the show, I decided that I'm glad it's ending. Tony is a dick and deserves to die.

[Oilers9911]

James Gandolfini better go on a diet when this series is over or a heart attack will whack him soon enough.

[ISiddiqui]

While watching the show, I decided that I'm glad it's ending. Tony is a dick and deserves to die.

You've only NOW realized this? ;)

[Hoya1]

Great episode.

We have to remember that what we've learned, may not always lead to something. The writers could be steering us in a direction, only to throw a curveball to catch us off guard.
Seems a little to easy.
Tony's gun gets picked up.
Hallow point bullets
Janice telling Bobby to make sure he gets rid of his
Tony telling Bobby that he will need to rely on him more. More of a right hand man because he's not sure he can trust Christopher. They talk about "hits" and Bobby brings up DNA evidence.
The fight causing a rift between Tony and Bobby.
Tony makes Bobby do the hit as "revenge"
Bobby gets his shirt ripped off and drops the gun.

This all leads me to Bobby getting arrested, then flipping saying it was Tony that made him do it. It seems to easy, so I'm sure something else needs to occur

[Hoya1]

I still cannot believe that his is going to be over. I think that they may leave the door open for a movie. When you think about the revenue that a motion picture can bring in,good movie or not, I'm wondering if these guys would really close the door on this series

[RedKingGold]

Great episode.

We have to remember that what we've learned, may not always lead to something. The writers could be steering us in a direction, only to throw a curveball to catch us off guard.
Seems a little to easy.
Tony's gun gets picked up.
Hallow point bullets
Janice telling Bobby to make sure he gets rid of his
Tony telling Bobby that he will need to rely on him more. More of a right hand man because he's not sure he can trust Christopher. They talk about "hits" and Bobby brings up DNA evidence.
The fight causing a rift between Tony and Bobby.
Tony makes Bobby do the hit as "revenge"
Bobby gets his shirt ripped off and drops the gun.

This all leads me to Bobby getting arrested, then flipping saying it was Tony that made him do it. It seems to easy, so I'm sure something else needs to occur

Please use the spoiler button seen above.

Just edit your post, and type <spoiler>the text that is in the spoiler above</spoiler>, replacing the <> with [].

[RedKingGold]

I still cannot believe that his is going to be over. I think that they may leave the door open for a movie. When you think about the revenue that a motion picture can bring in,good movie or not, I'm wondering if these guys would really close the door on this series

IIRC; it has been said that these nine episodes are meant to serve as the "Soprano's Movie"

[molson]

Please use the spoiler button seen above.

Just edit your post, and type <spoiler>the text that is in the spoiler above</spoiler>, replacing the <> with [].

Don't be that guy, the episode aired already. That puts the burden on you to avoid spoilers.

[stevew]

yeah, that's definitely not a spoiler.

[ISiddiqui]

Please use the spoiler button seen above.

Just edit your post, and type <SPOILER>the text that is in the spoiler above</SPOILER>, replacing the <> with [].

It's the day after airing... I think its ok. People aren't going like having to read a thread just full with spoiler tags.

[spleen1015]

I've been weeks behind on Friday Night Lights and I avoided the thread to avoid knowing what happens.

How hard is it? You know people are going to be talking about last night's episode in this thread.

[RedKingGold]

Don't be that guy, the episode aired already. That puts the burden on you to avoid spoilers.

I wasn't trying to be mean, it was just a curtesy reminder to use the spoiler tag (which is pretty nifty).

It's the day after airing... I think its ok. People aren't going like having to read a thread just full with spoiler tags.

I guarantee you that there are people on this board and likely whom have read this thread who have Tivo'd the Sopranos and plan to watch it over the next few days.

[ISiddiqui]

I guarantee you that there are people on this board and likely whom have read this thread who have Tivo'd the Sopranos and plan to watch it over the next few days.

I'd hope they'd be smart enough to avoid a Sopranos thread after the show aired until they saw it ;).

[Hoya1]

Sorry if I spoiled.

maybe there needs to be some clarification on proper "spoiler tag" etiquette

[stevew]

Sorry if I spoiled.

maybe there needs to be some clarification on proper "spoiler tag" etiquette

It's one thing if there was someone who saw a future episode(not available to everyone) and then wrote stuff....that's a spoiler. A spoiler is not discussing a show that has already aired.

For instance, at the beginning of last season, if you typed "Vito gets discovered as a gay and gets killed in a motel room," that would be a spoiler, and you would be a prick for writing that not in tags. But after that episode aired, its all open season.

[RedKingGold]

It's one thing if there was someone who saw a future episode(not available to everyone) and then wrote stuff....that's a spoiler. A spoiler is not discussing a show that has already aired.

For instance, at the beginning of last season, if you typed "Vito gets discovered as a gay and gets killed in a motel room," that would be a spoiler, and you would be a prick for writing that not in tags. But after that episode aired, its all open season.

I think you're wrong, but I guess that's just difference of opinion.

[molson]

I think you're wrong, but I guess that's just difference of opinion.

It's an interesting question, but c'mon, how long are people supposed to wait, until the DVD release? Would 72 hours be OK? The only clear black and white rule that everyone can understand is after it's aired, it's no longer a "spoiler". If people still don't know what happened, it's up to them to avoid.

I'd be curious to hear the opposing viewpoint though.

[RedKingGold]

It's an interesting question, but c'mon, how long are people supposed to wait, until the DVD release? Would 72 hours be OK? The only clear black and white rule that everyone can understand is after it's aired, it's no longer a "spoiler". If people still don't know what happened, it's up to them to avoid.

I'd be curious to hear the opposing viewpoint though.

Yeah, as I said it's not a clear rule myself. For example, in a sporting event, I agree that after it's "over" it can no longer be considered a spoiler. Sporting events just seem to be more volitile and up for constant change. A team loses and it's coach gets fired the next day. Once you read the story about the coache's firing, you inadvertantly find out about the game. Sports and news seem intertwined to me.

However, programs like "The Soprano's" and "24", etc. don't have as much of an impact on the news. Thus, they are easier to avoid then sports and have a larger lifespan on television. I have no quantifiable data to back me up, but I'd bet there are a thousand times more programs like "24" on Tivo's across American than there are sporting events. That's just because the medium of sports seems more immediate.

But, again, that's just my own opinion and I didn't mean my earlier statements on spoilers to come out meaning that Hoya should set himself on fire in the middle of public square. Some people get more annoyed at that kind of stuff than I do.

:shrug:

[Leonidas]

I dug this episode. Not too many shows can balance being laugh out loud funny and dramatic at the same time. There's just something about Baccala kicking Tony's ass and having a Monopoly hotel stuck to Tony's face. Come on.....don't tell me that isn't funny! Don't!OK, this post right here may compel me to rent the last season DVD then watch the next season. That scene described is way better than the crap I described in the last episode I watched,

[QuikSand]

I just got caught up with the first episode this morning - and I really liked it as a good setup for the final stretch.

[spleen1015]

Yeah, as I said it's not a clear rule myself. For example, in a sporting event, I agree that after it's "over" it can no longer be considered a spoiler. Sporting events just seem to be more volitile and up for constant change. A team loses and it's coach gets fired the next day. Once you read the story about the coache's firing, you inadvertantly find out about the game. Sports and news seem intertwined to me.

However, programs like "The Soprano's" and "24", etc. don't have as much of an impact on the news. Thus, they are easier to avoid then sports and have a larger lifespan on television. I have no quantifiable data to back me up, but I'd bet there are a thousand times more programs like "24" on Tivo's across American than there are sporting events. That's just because the medium of sports seems more immediate.

But, again, that's just my own opinion and I didn't mean my earlier statements on spoilers to come out meaning that Hoya should set himself on fire in the middle of public square. Some people get more annoyed at that kind of stuff than I do.

:shrug:

If you haven't watched the most recently aired episode of a show that is discussed with a thread on this board, then don't venture into the thread until you have seen it.

How hard is it?

[Subby]

I just got caught up with the first episode this morning - and I really liked it as a good setup for the final stretch.
I am agree.

Monopoly piece in face is the new pwnage.

[RedKingGold]

How hard is it?

That's what she said. ;)

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman/publish/article_11333.asp

Perhaps this was the right time for HBO to whack “The Sopranos” after all. After weeks of hype and speculation leading up to Sunday’s final-season premiere, the seventh-year show had its least-watched debut since its second year and third lowest overall.

“Sopranos” averaged 7.66 million viewers, a mere 20,000 more than its second-season debut in 2000, according to Nielsen data. The show was down 19 percent from last spring’s sixth-season debut, which drew 9.47 million viewers.

And it was well down from the peak of 13.43 million viewers who watched the fourth-season premiere in 2002, though back then Nielsen’s numbers included reruns of the show on other HBO networks such as HBO West and HBO Signature. Since 2003, Nielsen has only measured the primary HBO channel.

The dip continues a pattern seen at the end of last season, when the finale averaged 8.88 million viewers and viewership for the show dropped every week up to then.

“Sopranos” was still the most-watched show on premium or basic cable last week, and by a wide margin, but for the amount of attention the soon-to-end drama received that number is surprisingly low. It just goes to show once again the major disconnect between what television critics and television viewers consider can’t-miss television.

“Sopranos” was praised in major newspapers from USA Today to The Los Angeles Times, and made the cover of Entertainment Weekly and TV Guide. But by comparison, an episode of ABC’s “October Road,” which was savaged by critics, actually drew slightly more viewers last week.

Of course HBO is available in roughly 29 million households to ABC’s 111 million. Yet “Sopranos’” failure to draw more viewers may be a reflection of dissatisfaction with the show itself rather than its limited availability.

Last season the show was criticized for a dearth of action. An entire episode took place in an ailing Tony’s head, and most of the season focused on his recovery from a near-fatal gunshot wound. Viewers were especially disappointed by the uneventful season finale, in which no one was whacked, tossed out of the house or arrested, as in past finales.

Sunday’s premiere did feature a hit and a fight, but some viewers had likely already abandoned the show.

Too, Sunday was Easter, a night when television viewership is always off. ABC’s “Desperate Housewives” even sank to a series low.

And “Sopranos” faced tough cable competition. Discovery’s ongoing, high-rated “Planet Earth” special may have drawn away viewers in the same 9 p.m. timeslot.

HBO says it expects many viewers to tune in for repeats of the premiere and on-demand versions this week, boosting its cumulative numbers.

[RedKingGold]

http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman/publish/article_11333.asp

Perhaps this was the right time for HBO to whack “The Sopranos” after all. After weeks of hype and speculation leading up to Sunday’s final-season premiere, the seventh-year show had its least-watched debut since its second year and third lowest overall.

“Sopranos” averaged 7.66 million viewers, a mere 20,000 more than its second-season debut in 2000, according to Nielsen data. The show was down 19 percent from last spring’s sixth-season debut, which drew 9.47 million viewers.

And it was well down from the peak of 13.43 million viewers who watched the fourth-season premiere in 2002, though back then Nielsen’s numbers included reruns of the show on other HBO networks such as HBO West and HBO Signature. Since 2003, Nielsen has only measured the primary HBO channel.

The dip continues a pattern seen at the end of last season, when the finale averaged 8.88 million viewers and viewership for the show dropped every week up to then.

“Sopranos” was still the most-watched show on premium or basic cable last week, and by a wide margin, but for the amount of attention the soon-to-end drama received that number is surprisingly low. It just goes to show once again the major disconnect between what television critics and television viewers consider can’t-miss television.

“Sopranos” was praised in major newspapers from USA Today to The Los Angeles Times, and made the cover of Entertainment Weekly and TV Guide. But by comparison, an episode of ABC’s “October Road,” which was savaged by critics, actually drew slightly more viewers last week.

Of course HBO is available in roughly 29 million households to ABC’s 111 million. Yet “Sopranos’” failure to draw more viewers may be a reflection of dissatisfaction with the show itself rather than its limited availability.

Last season the show was criticized for a dearth of action. An entire episode took place in an ailing Tony’s head, and most of the season focused on his recovery from a near-fatal gunshot wound. Viewers were especially disappointed by the uneventful season finale, in which no one was whacked, tossed out of the house or arrested, as in past finales.

Sunday’s premiere did feature a hit and a fight, but some viewers had likely already abandoned the show.

Too, Sunday was Easter, a night when television viewership is always off. ABC’s “Desperate Housewives” even sank to a series low.

And “Sopranos” faced tough cable competition. Discovery’s ongoing, high-rated “Planet Earth” special may have drawn away viewers in the same 9 p.m. timeslot.

HBO says it expects many viewers to tune in for repeats of the premiere and on-demand versions this week, boosting its cumulative numbers.

I honestly think the bolded part is the biggest reason viewship was down.

[Qwikshot]

Great episode.

We have to remember that what we've learned, may not always lead to something. The writers could be steering us in a direction, only to throw a curveball to catch us off guard.
Seems a little to easy.
Tony's gun gets picked up.
Hallow point bullets
Janice telling Bobby to make sure he gets rid of his
Tony telling Bobby that he will need to rely on him more. More of a right hand man because he's not sure he can trust Christopher. They talk about "hits" and Bobby brings up DNA evidence.
The fight causing a rift between Tony and Bobby.
Tony makes Bobby do the hit as "revenge"
Bobby gets his shirt ripped off and drops the gun.

This all leads me to Bobby getting arrested, then flipping saying it was Tony that made him do it. It seems to easy, so I'm sure something else needs to occur


First of all, the hit was in Canada. Bobby was wearing gloves. It is hard to tell if the hit actually held onto a bit of the shirt or if it was just ripped.

The bigger groundwork is what's going on between Tony and Christopher.

Sopranos is all about multiple meanings...did anyone catch the brief duck interludes (one flies by Tony when he's on the dock, Nica singing a duck song - stops at mother duck).

Dropping the gun is standard wiseguy practice, it's untraceable...it was the right thing to do (see Godfather). It's only a bad idea when it can be traced back to you (ergo the initial arrest).

The talk about the hits was just that. I think Tony and Bobby were shooting the breeze. After the fight, Tony knew this was his way of getting back at Bobby.

The hollow points I would think is a red herring, the kid had the gun for almost two years, who is to say that wasn't /his/ hollow points in Tony's gun.

I liked the start, there was a duality. You saw how the Tony, Carmella, Janice and Bobby all partied, and then you saw how A.J. and his group partied (I'm sure we'll see more development). Tony wasn't so amused to see AJ's girlfriend's son at what 3 sucking on a pacifier, he was more excited to see Nica (god help this child).

Symbolism is everywhere...Janice singing "Out of Time" and Carmella singing "Love Hurts".

Biggest thing to look at closely, Carmella seems to be rubbing her shoulder a lot...it could be nothing (note she was rubbing it before she got into the tangle and landed on the coffee table). Most discussers stated shoulder rubbing could be, /could be/ a symptom of cancer (ovarian).

Also, a conspiracy angle...Janice had a son way back...He lives in Canada, I believe he was a musician. Just like the guy who got killed by Bobby - major stretch I know, but possible.

It's what I like about the Sopranos, if you watch, you remember, it expects you to remember things.

[Subby]

Nice breakdown, Qwik...

[adubroff]

I honestly think the bolded part is the biggest reason viewship was down.


The other thing I think is that On Demand is a bigger part of the whole equation than it ever has been. I'm not sure how and if the On Demand ratings are but I know it's a bigger and bigger factor.

[Qwikshot]

That was all a really quick breakdown. There are a ton of things to notice. Yes some of it is trivial (the sushi thing). But ultimately, it's pretty cool.

[molson]

Most discussers stated shoulder rubbing could be, /could be/ a symptom of cancer (ovarian).



Are you referring to a message board (i.e. discussers)? If so, can you recomend one for Sopranos stuff?

[Qwikshot]

Are you referring to a message board (i.e. discussers)? If so, can you recomend one for Sopranos stuff?

Of course...the best is televisionwithoutpity.com

They have discussion forums for a ton of shows along with brief recaps and larger narrative recaps.

slate.com also does a discussion about the sopranos, but it's no longer as in depth and really marred by a lot of personal interjections.

[ISiddiqui]

Biggest thing to look at closely, Carmella seems to be rubbing her shoulder a lot...it could be nothing (note she was rubbing it before she got into the tangle and landed on the coffee table). Most discussers stated shoulder rubbing could be, /could be/ a symptom of cancer (ovarian).

Perhaps... but remember during the fight with Bobby, Carmella tried to seperate the two and Tony elbowed Carmella who fell and wacked her shoulder over the table.

As for ratings... add in Easter, DVR and On Demand and I think that explains things.

Hell, I taped it on my DVR and watched it an hour later (I was at my friend's house for dinner Sunday evening and no HBO there).

[Karlifornia]

Well..I was reading a TV blog today..and one of the comments struck me as interesting, and the point made earlier in this very thread about David chase knowing how the series would end from the beginning really made me think..this is in regards to the theme song of the show:

Tim,

Just for your edification on the song point:

Lead singer Rob Spragg wrote this after hearing about a case in which a wife finally shot her abusive husband after twenty years. The song is about female empowerment, not the mob.

For What It's Worth....

[TazFTW]

Good episode. HBO is going to air a making of Cleaver?

[molson]

Fun video I found - every single Sopranos whacking, in chronological order:

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvp45eE5dSM

[cartman]

That was a pretty awesome episode. A whole lot of storylines going on.

[TazFTW]

Poor Tim Daly. :( First Eyes, then The Nine, and now this. There's only so much cash you can get from saying "Previously on Lost".

[stevew]

Surely Chris has to be done in this time. It's probably a red-herring though, and him flipping would be all too obvious of a way to end it all. I wouldn't be suprised, however, to see him get whacked in the next few weeks, especially if they think he's going to flip.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Poor Chrissy, he just doesn't know what to do.. Once he was Tony's right hand man and now he is expendable, I also foresee his death in the next few weeks.

Did anyone else think AJ liked it when they tortured that college kid with acid. Is this hope for him to join the family business and take over for Tony..???

[gottimd]

Poor Tim Daly. :( First Eyes, then The Nine, and now this. There's only so much cash you can get from saying "Previously on Lost".
He is on that Greys Anatomy spinoff I thought now. I guess he is the indicator on whether the show is about to end or be cancelled.:D
"Aw crap, Tim Daly is on the show, cancelled, 5 episodes, guaranteed!":D

Its a shame, I think he is a decent actor.

[Karlifornia]

So, no immediate comments following tonights episode? I found it to be very, VERY intense.

How Chris got killed off was insane. Tony holding his nose as Chris suffocates on his own blood? Nuts. I did one of those "run your fingers through your hair in disbelief "for the remaining 45 minutes.

[TazFTW]

Mmmm, Sarah Shahi.

Very surprised to see how Chris goes out.

[spleen1015]

I was hoping Chris would kill Tony this season instead.

[stevew]

definitely not how I would have expected that death to play out, but it made a lot of sense in the story.

That one "Butchy" guy that's Leotardo's main henchmen is definitely creepy. I think he'll have to play a big part in the conclusion of the series.


And supposedly in 2 weeks, the next to last episode is going to show a lot of backstory with a lot of flashbacks about how people got involved in the mob. Could be great.

[Qwikshot]

A great episode...

I was on edge for the start, the long drive in the darkness, Chrissy weaving back and forth, playing the soundtrack to "the Departed", the tension was mounting up...

What I really could tell, was that Tony was trying, trying hard to find that moment to connect to his "son", but Chris kept weaving, and fiddling and just jabbering, and before Tony could attempt to reconcile, it was over...

Then seeing Chrissy, keep stating Tony's gotta help him out, that he's using...well, Tony helped him out, and in doing so, snipped one threat to him in the bud...

This is now the spiral downward...

[Anthony]

am i the only one who kept waiting for Tony to wake up and the entire chris death to be a dream sequence?

[cartman]

I've got to echo the sentiments already expressed. I was surprised to see Chris checkout the way he did, and yep, Sarah Shahi is a grade A hottie. Gotta love those Tarrant County girls. :)

[Anthony]

personally i think they owed it to the character to have him die some other way. this was a rather cheap death, if you ask me. i thought all signs were pointing to Phil whacking Chris to spark one hell of a war for the last 2 episodes.

i didn't know how to interpret Tony killing him - was it a mercy killing cuz he felt Chris would be a vegetable, or was it really to eliminate what he thought was a mounting threat?

just hard for me to swallow. you can't tell me all these years with Chris coming to the forefront of the storyline that it was all so he could die in a car accident. i understand Chase would prefer to have it so that each episode can stand on its own and they're all "mini-movies", but as the storyteller of a long story i feel it's his job to say "this is how it all tied up, this where it all lead to". we're not talking about Vito Spatafore, who came out of nowhere to have a major story arc and then was whacked. this was one of the main characters in the show the last several years running. just a cheap way out. just cuz as a storyteller Chase has the power to do what he wants with any character doesn't mean he necessarily should wield that wand however. that's basically Chase saying "this is my show, i'm the storyteller, if i wake up and decide i want Tony to die by food poisoning i'll do it if i want". certain characters deserve, nay, require, a certain sendoff.

[molson]

personally i think they owed it to the character to have him die some other way. this was a rather cheap death, if you ask me. i thought all signs were pointing to Phil whacking Chris to spark one hell of a war for the last 2 episodes.



The timing of the death was vintage Sopranos though. Formulaic writing would require a little more of a downward spiral for Christopher, climaxing in him getting whacked in one of the final episodes. Instead, they have an ordinary, non-noteworthy opening scene (asbestos dumping) and then it's all over for one of the show's main characters, with hardly a warning.

People often complain about the Sopranos not going by the book (the unexplained fate of the Russian, Meadow's vanishing finance, seasons ending with a whimper instead of a bang, etc.), but this is a show that seems to strive on the idea of not constantly reminding you you're watching scripted television.

[Karlifornia]

personally i think they owed it to the character to have him die some other way. this was a rather cheap death, if you ask me. i thought all signs were pointing to Phil whacking Chris to spark one hell of a war for the last 2 episodes.

i didn't know how to interpret Tony killing him - was it a mercy killing cuz he felt Chris would be a vegetable, or was it really to eliminate what he thought was a mounting threat?

just hard for me to swallow. you can't tell me all these years with Chris coming to the forefront of the storyline that it was all so he could die in a car accident. i understand Chase would prefer to have it so that each episode can stand on its own and they're all "mini-movies", but as the storyteller of a long story i feel it's his job to say "this is how it all tied up, this where it all lead to". we're not talking about Vito Spatafore, who came out of nowhere to have a major story arc and then was whacked. this was one of the main characters in the show the last several years running. just a cheap way out. just cuz as a storyteller Chase has the power to do what he wants with any character doesn't mean he necessarily should wield that wand however. that's basically Chase saying "this is my show, i'm the storyteller, if i wake up and decide i want Tony to die by food poisoning i'll do it if i want". certain characters deserve, nay, require, a certain sendoff.

I actually liked the way they killed off Chris because I didn't see it coming like that at all. Chris gets whacked by Phil Leotardo? Well, yeah, that sucks, but it would be like hitting a pinata and having a bunch of candy fall out. It's satisfying, and you knew it was coming. But Tony killing Chris himself amid a fog of possible motives in a split second decision? That was like hitting a pinata and having a swarm of bees fly out.

[Qwikshot]

I think it was a great way to kill off Chris. It's far more interesting that Tony did it, recall how Tony dug his heels in for killing Big Pussy and Tony B., but Chris's death was complete impulse (recall a few weeks ago when Tony mulls over whacking Paulie, I felt the same way with this car drive).

I don't think a gang war with NYC is in Tony's favor, his group will be snuffed out rather quick (odd that one of Chris's last statements was advice to Tony to pay Phil off, he wasn't so complacent when Johnny Sack was in charge).

I think that the Vito storyline did suck, but I think because HBO wanted another season, Chase had to extend out a story arc that would have a story but wouldn't give anything away for the final season, plus it did allow for some foreshadowing (I recall how manipulative Vito was when Tony was in a coma, he was really pushing to be the replacement).

So I don't think that was Chase's fault.

I think snuffing Chris out at the beginning was brilliant, and much like "Psycho" a shock that before you can get over it, the show's over. Chrissy would have lived if Tony had made the phone call (they state that), Tony did it because Chris would never be what he wanted him to be (like Comfortably Numb ..."the child is gone, the dream is gone...")

No longer was Chris the "son" to replace Tony, Chris was a screwup who once shot at Tony, his gf almost turned him to the FBI (Tony had to take care of that), and after understanding "Cleaver", Tony knew the resentment that boiled under in Chris for Ade's death (and implied affair with Tony - which would have happened if there hadn't been an SUV crash - coincidence, I think not).

I like the unpredictableness of the show, you never know what's coming, and the best part, is that there have been incredible payoffs this season rather than the whimper of last season (started off with a bang)...I'm hoping that Chase can keep it up.

[gottimd]

I feel like they (the writers) are slowly showing you how evil Tony is. The first few seasons, yeah, he is/was the boss, but you saw a family man with real problems and you felt some compassion for him. Now they are painting the picture of him being a ruthless killer, maybe as a setup to make you actually cheer for his death, if it were to happen.

There are so many loose ends though, I feel like the final episodes are going to be rushed. Will it be a godfather like end with everyone getting killed in a few minutes? I hope they don't have it as one of his guys was an informant the whole time and everyone gets busted type ending, that will be so disappointing.

[SunDevil]

** Just a guess***

I honestly think that Tony was the one who killed Christopher's father. In an earlier episode Tony was the one who told and showed Chris who killed his father. Whether this man did or not, or Tony paid the retiring cop to kill Chris's father is beside the point. Seeing Christopher in his current state, and with him saying he would not pass a drug test, and with the tree branch impaling the child seat, I honestly think that Tony saw in Christopher what he also saw in Christopher's father. And with that the man who killed the father also kills the son.
*** Just a guess ***

[NoMyths]

A great episode, and one I've been thinking about since it aired. I like that the writers are underlining how irredeemable Tony is after all this time -- something they needed to re-emphasize after his relatively sedate behavior since getting shot (beating up the crony for the hell of it as a notable exception). If they are planning a bad end for him -- as I have to imagine they must, unless leaving him alive/out-of-prison as a way of not suffering for his immorality isa more satisfying way of dodging expectations -- they have to play notes such as these leading up to the finale.

The way Chris went out was rough and unexpected -- incredible storytelling, and one of the most affecting scenes I've experienced on television (including the end of Twin Peaks). But there is no salvation for Tony, alive or dead, and now that the show no longer needs to give us much to like about him in order to keep us watching, I think they may be about to turn the dial to eleven.

[stevew]

** Just a guess***

I honestly think that Tony was the one who killed Christopher's father. In an earlier episode Tony was the one who told and showed Chris who killed his father. Whether this man did or not, or Tony paid the retiring cop to kill Chris's father is beside the point. Seeing Christopher in his current state, and with him saying he would not pass a drug test, and with the tree branch impaling the child seat, I honestly think that Tony saw in Christopher what he also saw in Christopher's father. And with that the man who killed the father also kills the son.
*** Just a guess ***


Interesting point, I wonder if one of the remaining episodes will address it. Supposedly they are doing some sort of flashbacks in one of the remaining ones, or they may save that for possible future prequel movies.

[stevew]

They better not pull the "Newhart ending" and make this all some dream of Melfi and her patient Kevin Finnerty, a mentally disturbed salesman who longs to be a mafioso.

[Bad-example]

Ever since the episode a few seasons ago that ended with Tony teaching A.J. how to drive the boat...completely oblivious that he was teaching him wrong and causing trouble with other water traffic...I have thought that A.J. would be one of the big keys to the finale. I wonder if the ending won't be years later, with A.J. the boss sitting in a different therapist's office.

Anyone notice how two dimensional Silvio's character is compared to characters like Chris and Paulie? Silvio has been in the show from the start but we never got much insight into him. He had a brief stint filling in for Tony as top dog and discovered he was completely unsuited to the role. He has been the perfect lieutenant...competent, loyal, unlikely to challenge Tony for boss. We have not seen much of what really motivates him. He has almost been a cardboard cutout, a characature.

[QuikSand]

Ever since the episode a few seasons ago that ended with Tony teaching A.J. how to drive the boat...completely oblivious that he was teaching him wrong and causing trouble with other water traffic...I have thought that A.J. would be one of the big keys to the finale. I wonder if the ending won't be years later, with A.J. the boss sitting in a different therapist's office.

Interesting idea -- I agree that AJ has received an inordinate amount of attention of late, as he has never really been a very interesting character. While the show seems to be going through somewhat systematically and wrapping up many characters' storylines (like that little half-episode paean to Junior, with whom we are clearly now finished)... AJ remains central to the things that are still developing, without an obvious end in sight. An ending like the one you describe would really fit.

[Radii]

The interesting thing with AJ is that he clearly cannot handle the things he's seeing and halfway participating in right now. Maybe we don't end with AJ in a therapist's chair but having his first fainting spell as he had to block so much out and desensitize himself so much to be able to be in the mob in the future.

[NoMyths]

I'm interested in the idea of Tony ending up a desolate monster...after AJ kills himself, which will sever his last remaining human ties.

Alternately, the idea of AJ taking over and being in therapy (with an old Melfi?) at the end is a good one, and I will subscribe to that newsletter as well. But I think I'm pulling for Desolate Monster.

[cartman]

Or Tony hooking up at the end with Johnnycakes... :D

That could be the only reason I see for the focus on Vito over those episodes.

[Joe]

so, anyone cancelling HBO after the series ends?

[Logan]

Entourage, Curb, THE WIRE. Fuck no.

[molson]

I'm interested in the idea of Tony ending up a desolate monster...after AJ kills himself, which will sever his last remaining human ties.

Alternately, the idea of AJ taking over and being in therapy (with an old Melfi?) at the end is a good one, and I will subscribe to that newsletter as well. But I think I'm pulling for Desolate Monster.

I've read theories (i.e. speculation) about Tony killing Melfi, after revealing too much to her. So essentially, the show would have begun in season 1 with him trying to better himself through Melfi, and end in the last few episodes with Tony giving up on that, and embracing his desolate monster self.

[cartman]

Some people are taking this way too seriously:

hxxp://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2007/05/16/sopranos_spoilers


Sopranos Fans Send Michael Imperioli Flowers
Actor Michael Imperioli was amazed to receive deliveries of flowers at his house this week - sent by fans mourning the passing of his Sopranos character.

Imperioli's Christopher Moltisanti was killed by Tony Soprano, played by James Gandolfini, following a car crash in Sunday night's episode. And Imperioli, who has known of his character's passing for more than a year, has also been phoned by friends wanting to know if he's alright.

He says, "It's been very strange. Believe it or not, flowers have been delivered to my house. People have been calling to see if I'm OK. I'm saying, 'It's a TV show, of course I'm OK. It's like every other day.'"

[bosshogg23]

Entourage, Curb, THE WIRE. Fuck no.

Along with Deadwood's 2 movies and John From Cincinnati, which is starting next month and created by the Deadwood producer. Half the shows I watch are on HBO.

[Anthony]

so, anyone cancelling HBO after the series ends?

i am. after Rome and Sopranos i have no need for premium cable. i don't really watch my premium movie channels anymore. anything else that is worth watching i'll simply rent the whole season on DVD. much cheaper than way.

[GoDukes]

Along with Deadwood's 2 movies and John From Cincinnati, which is starting next month and created by the Deadwood producer. Half the shows I watch are on HBO.


Were the Deadwood movies filmed?

[molson]

Some people are taking this way too seriously:

hxxp://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2007/05/16/sopranos_spoilers

I don't know what's more disturbing, the fact that people think that Christopher is a real person, or the fact that those people feel that Christopher is a person that should be fondly remembered.

[Anthony]

i know. granted, he was my favorite character on the show (along with Phil), but the guy was a murderer. don't cry for him, Argentina.

[lcjjdnh]

=
Anyone notice how two dimensional Silvio's character is compared to characters like Chris and Paulie? Silvio has been in the show from the start but we never got much insight into him. He had a brief stint filling in for Tony as top dog and discovered he was completely unsuited to the role. He has been the perfect lieutenant...competent, loyal, unlikely to challenge Tony for boss. We have not seen much of what really motivates him. He has almost been a cardboard cutout, a characature.


As much as I love Steve Van Zandt, I think his lack of acting experience might play into this. I've heard it mentioned that his limited range kind of limits what the writers can do with he character.

[bosshogg23]

Were the Deadwood movies filmed?

Nope. One was supposed to be filmed this summer with a late fall airing. Last I read it sounded like it could be delayed though.

[cartman]

Yet another great episode. How in the hell is everything going to wrapped up in two more episodes? Phil seems hell bent on destruction, and I get the feeling that AJ and Meadow aren't off limits.

[NoMyths]

I'm going to miss the hell out of this show.

[Bad-example]

...the episode a few seasons ago that ended with Tony teaching A.J. how to drive the boat...completely oblivious that he was teaching him wrong and causing trouble with other water traffic...

Just thought it was interesting how tonight's episode ended, with Tony in the hospital putting his arm around A.J. and walking down the hall with him, away from the camera. Very reminiscent of the episode I was talking about above.

[MizzouRah]

Yet another great episode. How in the hell is everything going to wrapped up in two more episodes? Phil seems hell bent on destruction, and I get the feeling that AJ and Meadow aren't off limits.

That's what I'm wondering. They have so much to cram in what seems so little time. Should be a great finale.

[thesloppy]

Plenty of interesting stuff in this episode, but only one horrifying, traumatizing image has stuck with me:


LINCOLN LOG SANDWICHES.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, those looked just NASTY... ugh... maybe that's why AJ decided to off himself ;).

[spleen1015]

Did anyone else get the chills when Tony beat up Cocoa and knocked out his teeth like he did?

[Logan]

I bet one of the black guys from American History X did.

[waynegomez]

I'm interested to see where they go with the two FBI agents who keep appearing at Satriales. Did Tony and crew inadvertently aid terrorist activities? Will Tony get nabbed on a Patriot Act violation and find himself at guantanamo? Just kidding but this could prove to be a crucial plotline.

[RedKingGold]

I do kind of get the feeling we're going to have a "Seinfeldian" type ending where not much is really resolved.

[MizzouRah]

Plenty of interesting stuff in this episode, but only one horrifying, traumatizing image has stuck with me:


LINCOLN LOG SANDWICHES.

Looked to me like, bread + hot dog + cream cheese = yuk.

[Anthony]

my wife thinks these episodes are so boring since no one is dying, but i think the tension between Tony and Phil is so menacing. great writing and acting. is Cocoa a made man? i never heard of him before.

there's just way too much to cram into 2 episodes. i understand you gotta leave 'em wanting more, but you leave the pending NY/NJ family war, something leading up to for the entire series, down to the last 2 episodes?

[molson]

there's just way too much to cram into 2 episodes. i understand you gotta leave 'em wanting more, but you leave the pending NY/NJ family war, something leading up to for the entire series, down to the last 2 episodes?

I have a feeling a lot of people are going to be dissapointed with the last episode. The Sopranos universe has never been a slave to things like season finales, etc, everyone does their own thing, business goes on, completely oblvious to the fact that the season or show is "ending". That's part of show's charm, but people have been trained to expect something different.

And of course, there's always money to made in a movie.

[Bad-example]

I'm interested to see where they go with the two FBI agents who keep appearing at Satriales. Did Tony and crew inadvertently aid terrorist activities? Will Tony get nabbed on a Patriot Act violation and find himself at guantanamo? Just kidding but this could prove to be a crucial plotline.

I have been wondering about this as well. How ironic if Tony screwed himself by putting the feds onto those two muslim guys. What if they are not terrorists but wind up as key witnesses against the mob?

[ISiddiqui]

my wife thinks these episodes are so boring since no one is dying,

Pah, so crude... but I think a lot of people suffer under this. The show isn't necessarily about people dying. Who cares about that if it isn't accompanied by great writing.

but i think the tension between Tony and Phil is so menacing. great writing and acting.

Exactly. You can feel the dramatic tension as its climbing and climbing. Its great stuff.

[Logan]

I have been wondering about this as well. How ironic if Tony screwed himself by putting the feds onto those two muslim guys. What if they are not terrorists but wind up as key witnesses against the mob?

I think any potential connection between Tony and these guys ended when Christopher's final breaths were taken away. It would have been:

Arabs get pinched -> cell phone records show Christopher was in business with them -> Arab guys give up Chris and how he supplied them with weapons -> Chris, faced with more federal charges and hating the life he's living, flips and brings down Tony.

That link is gone now, as I'm 100% sure there were no dealings between them and Tony. An interesting theory I read on another board...the asbestos dumping being linked to Tony, and him being brought in on federal charges...by the EPA, not the FBI. Would be very funny if that was the agency that ended up getting him.

[Mateo]

I do kind of get the feeling we're going to have a "Seinfeldian" type ending where not much is really resolved.


ding ding ding... we have a winner.

Tony'll cave, and the mob will continue to exist.

[thesloppy]

I loved Phil talkin' shit to Tony and Carmine through a second story screen window.....passive aggressive thuggery at its finest, you gotta love it.

[Karlifornia]

I was gonna post something about last night's episode, but I think I'd rather go have a lincoln log sandwich.

[stevew]

I'm starting to wonder if Lil' Carmine is either working with the feds, or is working against both Phil and Tony to become supreme ruler of both families. A few episodes back, he seemed like he possibly wanted out of the life. Plus the issue of the high level NY mole still hasn't been resolved(the whole scene where Harris informs Tony that someone close to him is in danger last fall).

[cartman]

This episode is definitely starting off with a bang.

[cartman]

Everything is pointing to the final episode of being one of the best of all-time.

[JPhillips]

Belichick must be pissed.

[stevew]

holy shit.

[Logan]

That was just unreal. Perfect episode. I hope I can make it to watch the replay at midnight.

With all the great stuff, I think my strongest feeling is that "Melfi = Cunt."

[NoMyths]

Veeeery interesting that Bobby got popped, and not Paulie.

[RedKingGold]

That was just unreal. Perfect episode. I hope I can make it to watch the replay at midnight.

With all the great stuff, I think my strongest feeling is that "Melfi = Cunt."

+1

IMO, Best episode since season finale of season six.

My heart was actually pumping during this episode.

[Radii]

agree with everything said so far here, incredible episode.

[Qwikshot]

Took an hour for me to calm down, and I had miss the 1st 20 minutes...

[stevew]

Veeeery interesting that Bobby got popped, and not Paulie.


yeah, agreed. I wonder if there's something up there. Paulie's always been one of my faves, I hope he doesn't go out like a rat or something.

I gotta watch this again.

[Qwikshot]

Paulie is just an enforcer, not a leader. He may be Tony's greatest asset or biggest mistake.

[Mateo]

They should've started this season with this ep, and gone from there.

[Mateo]

ding ding ding... we have a winner.

Tony'll cave, and the mob will continue to exist.

man, was I way off...

[MizzouRah]

Watched it last night on the DVR. Wow, great episode. Next week should be a thriller.

[molson]

I feel bad for the guy who posted earlier that he stopped watching the show because he didn't enjoy the "Carm and Tony liked going out for sushi" storyline that lasted 8 minutes.

[Anthony]

excellent episode. no reason why this couldn't have been the 1st episode to start this season. i feel a lot was wasted on the AJ storyline and there may not be much of a payoff to it.

the funny this is it might be easy to root for the Jersey family and against the NY gang, but the fact remains is they're all bad guys, in a sense.

[Karlifornia]

I feel bad for the guy who posted earlier that he stopped watching the show because he didn't enjoy the "Carm and Tony liked going out for sushi" storyline that lasted 8 minutes.

LOL. I got a good laugh from this post.:D

[Karlifornia]

Is there any chance that this "Man-Genius" character figures into the finale? I'm just curious because it seems odd to introduce such a high-profile character with only one episode left to go. Maybe he's working for the Feds or is connected to Phil somehow?

LOL

[Logan]

I saw that. I wish I had a camera fixed on my eyes while I read that forum. It would be cool to see how long my eyes would end up rolling.

[molson]

LOL

That's awseome - if he showed up in the finale at Tony's safehouse and killed everyone, well, I would be giddy for quite some time.

[molson]

I saw that. I wish I had a camera fixed on my eyes while I read that forum. It would be cool to see how long my eyes would end up rolling.

Pure speculation at that forum did nail most of the elements of last night's episode though (hitting a Phil-lookalike by mistake, Bobby being whacked at the train store). I think that stuff figured out through casting calls and reports from shooting locations.

[Logan]

Pure speculation at that forum did nail most of the elements of last night's episode though (hitting a Phil-lookalike by mistake, Bobby being whacked at the train store). I think that stuff figured out through casting calls and reports from shooting locations.

I don't read the spoiler forum, but yes, everyone said those spoilers were well-known.

I'm talking more about the people who maintain the cardboard cutout of Sil was actually Joe Pesci's character from My Cousin Vinny.

[Milton]

I don't read the spoiler forum, but yes, everyone said those spoilers were well-known.

I'm talking more about the people who maintain the cardboard cutout of Sil was actually Joe Pesci's character from My Cousin Vinny.


What the hell was that cardboard cutout doing there, anyway?

[gottimd]

Pure speculation at that forum did nail most of the elements of last night's episode though (hitting a Phil-lookalike by mistake, Bobby being whacked at the train store). I think that stuff figured out through casting calls and reports from shooting locations.

What forum is that?

[molson]

What forum is that?

www.televisionwithoutpity.com

Interestingly, even though were as a consensus about those two spoiler elements above, nobody has any clue what's going to happen in the finale.

[Logan]

What the hell was that cardboard cutout doing there, anyway?

http://blog.nj.com/alltv/2007/06/second_opinion_the_blue_comet.html#more

Just to reiterate what I said more clearly in today's print edition of Rewind than I did in the blog version I posted early Monday morning, I've been told by one of the writers that the safehouse is not Junior's, nor Livia's, nor the Kinderhook farm where Tony B. died (which bears no resemblance to the safehouse that I could see), nor any other house we've seen before. It's just a dilapidated house that the Family keeps for occasions such as this, and also for storage of odd knick-knacks like the Silvio cut-out -- the writers wanted Silvio to have some kind of presence in the scene even though he was in a coma, and they decided the Bing once made those cut-outs as a promotional item.

Purely the freedom of the writers.

[spleen1015]

Bah.

They go and get Bobby and Sil, but they don't get Tony at the same time?

Whatever. It is a good thing this show is coming to an end.

[Qwikshot]

Bah.

They go and get Bobby and Sil, but they don't get Tony at the same time?

Whatever. It is a good thing this show is coming to an end.

It was probably assumed that Tony would be at the Bing.

[Anthony]

Hi, I'm Silvio Dante. I know there is a strong likelihoof that a hit has been placed on myself, so rather than keep a weapon closeby I'll simply keep it in a bag and place it in the back seat of my car.

[molson]

Hi, I'm Silvio Dante. I know there is a strong likelihoof that a hit has been placed on myself, so rather than keep a weapon closeby I'll simply keep it in a bag and place it in the back seat of my car.

Ya, that was a little silly. They know 100% that attempted hit is coming, and they're at their normal hangout, with no extra security, and limited access to weapons.

[gottimd]

Hi, I'm Silvio Dante. I know there is a strong likelihoof that a hit has been placed on myself, so rather than keep a weapon closeby I'll simply keep it in a bag and place it in the back seat of my car.

Hi Silvio!

[Qwikshot]

Hi, I'm Silvio Dante. I know there is a strong likelihoof that a hit has been placed on myself, so rather than keep a weapon closeby I'll simply keep it in a bag and place it in the back seat of my car.


I have to admit, after the Bobby hit, when they cut to Silvio, all I was thinking was - couldn't you move a little quicker, even when they saw the car come in, they were driving so sloooooowwwww.

[gottimd]

I have to admit, after the Bobby hit, when they cut to Silvio, all I was thinking was - couldn't you move a little quicker, even when they saw the car come in, they were driving so sloooooowwwww.

If I had been warned that I was about to be killed, but I didn't know when, where or by who, I'd be carrying around numerous weapons that are either loaded and easy to get to, or they are just sticking right out like the wild wild west.

[Qwikshot]

If I had been warned that I was about to be killed, but I didn't know when, where or by who, I'd be carrying around numerous weapons that are either loaded and easy to get to, or they are just sticking right out like the wild wild west.

That I agree with. I'm sure the first thing was they were so smug about the botched hit on Phil, that they weren't prepared for the payback.

Bobby was a goner with his cell in his pocket, but you'd think that you'd keep something like that at all times when you were responsible for a New York hit. It was believable because Bobby could be such a goof.

Silvio was more suprising because this is the guy that whacks people. I mean he did a hit just at the start of the episode. So yes, you'd think he'd be more aware, but I always got the picture that Silvio was a behind the scenes guy, he keeps his business quiet. I had a little less belief in his not carrying the gun, but he seemed more interested in all the business stuff to think they'd gun for him. Big mistake...some viewers allude that it's his just desserts scrambling for a gun the same way Adriana had to scramble in the woods to her death.

I've not read on any boards, but some complained about the violence in the death/injury of the motorcyclist as the hitmen scramble to get away, but I think it was more to add belief that a car could be stopped by a motorcycle, like Silvio's was. I was thinking why get out of the car, run over that hog and get out of there. Plus it may have been an allusion to the African that AJ's friend's beat up when he runs into the door of the one kid's car. His bike is run over in the violence.

This is one of those shows where you can see a bunch of things within things, even the dull episodes would illuminate something.

[stevew]

I have to admit, after the Bobby hit, when they cut to Silvio, all I was thinking was - couldn't you move a little quicker, even when they saw the car come in, they were driving so sloooooowwwww.

Is it possible that both hits basically happened simultaneously? Or do i need to re-watch it, w/ Silvio being well aware that bobby got popped.

[stevew]

dola, that was an awful driving job by Patsy(I think that's his name). It wouldn't suprise me if he has either flipped to NY or to the Feds. More likely NY, as it wouldn't be terribly hard to not hit someone in crossfire. I DVR'd the episode, I'm going to re-watch.

[Bad-example]

Not much time left to get final predictions down for posterity. I am thinking Tony ends up with the feds. It seems like the way to screw over Phil the most would be to put him back behind bars. Also, I find it hard to believe we are done with Dr Melfi. I would be surprised if she and Tony don't have one more session.

[bosshogg23]

I think all of this happens in the last episode....

Tony dies

Phil Leotardo dies before Tony, directly as a result of Tony

One or both of Carlo Gervasi or Paulie Walnuts have backstabbed Tony to the NY families

The story about the guys from the Middle East is not resolved anymore than it already has been. The entire buildup was for the Fed to feed Tony info about the family decapitation.

[SunDevil]

Tony wakes up. This was all a dream sequence. :p

[Radii]

Predictions:

Phil Leotardo and Paulie die. The series ends with Tony, Carmella, Mellow and AJ having a meal together.

And the most unfortunate prediction of all, Janice does not die. Even worse she might join the Sopranos for the series ending meal pointing to the future.

[Radii]

dola, agreed on the prediction that the storyline w/ the feds is over and done with.

[thesloppy]

As long as we're discussing the logic gaps, what's up with the Italians?

They get picked up at the airport by one of the Jersey crew because of course they're foreign and can't be expected to navigate the Big Apple on their lonesome....but then when the hit goes down that's exactly what they're doing, apparently driving randomly around New York, relying only on a picture of Phil to guide them? Before the botched hit it looked like they were parked and staking out a specific place....a place that turned out to be the home of a Ukranian man who looked an awful lot like Phil? None of that makes any sense. I guess you could reason that Phil arranged for his doppleganger (and daughter) to be at his safehouse, or that he lived very nearby to someone who looked just like him and the Italians got confused, but either situation seems like quite a stretch.

[Oilers9911]

Hi, I'm Silvio Dante. I know there is a strong likelihoof that a hit has been placed on myself, so rather than keep a weapon closeby I'll simply keep it in a bag and place it in the back seat of my car.

Hi, I'm Bobby Baccalieri...they shot my fucking train!

[molson]

They've spent an awful lot of time with AJ this year, despite his limitations as an actor (it would have easy to write him out and downplay his importance). I'm thinking he's a big part of the finale - either whacking one of Phil's henchman who's looking to take out the family, or maybe even killling Tony.

[NoMyths]

They've spent an awful lot of time with AJ this year, despite his limitations as an actor (it would have easy to write him out and downplay his importance). I'm thinking he's a big part of the finale - either whacking one of Phil's henchman who's looking to take out the family, or maybe even killling Tony.


*thinks back to when AJ did a trial run with uncle junior*
*and screwed it up, like his suicide*
*so maybe a murder/suicide combo*
*man that'd be bleak*

[stevew]

As long as we're discussing the logic gaps, what's up with the Italians?

They get picked up at the airport by one of the Jersey crew because of course they're foreign and can't be expected to navigate the Big Apple on their lonesome....but then when the hit goes down that's exactly what they're doing, apparently driving randomly around New York, relying only on a picture of Phil to guide them? Before the botched hit it looked like they were parked and staking out a specific place....a place that turned out to be the home of a Ukranian man who looked an awful lot like Phil? None of that makes any sense. I guess you could reason that Phil arranged for his doppleganger (and daughter) to be at his safehouse, or that he lived very nearby to someone who looked just like him and the Italians got confused, but either situation seems like quite a stretch.


Those were the same hitmen they used in the first part of season 6 to off the "king makers." Phil's comar just happened to have a father that looked an awful lot like Phil. Phil had gone to that address every friday night supposedly, so it was definitely thought he would be there. Also, the Italians are pretty competent hitmen, they just had never seen phil before.

[stevew]

They've spent an awful lot of time with AJ this year, despite his limitations as an actor (it would have easy to write him out and downplay his importance). I'm thinking he's a big part of the finale - either whacking one of Phil's henchman who's looking to take out the family, or maybe even killling Tony.

Yeah, this is my major thought too. Speculation and possibly unproven spoilers supposedly point towards some situation like that. Although it is extremely possible that it was just a red herring.

Honestly, I wouldn't even be suprised if they off Phil in the first 10 minutes, then they dodge an attempted hit by Butchie the Henchman(who has clearly snapped at that point). Then maybe they work shit out with the rest of the NY families, and then Tony and the Family then spend the rest of episode having dinner. Something way low keyer than we are expecting.

[thesloppy]

Those were the same hitmen they used in the first part of season 6 to off the "king makers." Phil's comar just happened to have a father that looked an awful lot like Phil. Phil had gone to that address every friday night supposedly, so it was definitely thought he would be there. Also, the Italians are pretty competent hitmen, they just had never seen phil before.

Gotcha, thanks for clearing that up.

[RedKingGold]

The crazy rumor I heard is that Meadow is accidently killed while driving in Tony's car (b/c Phil's crew shoot up the car thinking Tony's inside).

Either way, I think the finale is definitely pointing to someone in the Soprano family other than Tony getting killed/murdered/whacked b/c of the very cryptic line in the last episode by Tony basically saying that families are left out of mafia hits.

[NoMyths]

Or since she's dating Patsy's kid, it could be intentional. Cue the Godfather 3 Coppola-cam?

[Karlifornia]

Or since she's dating Phil's kid, it could be intentional. Cue the Godfather 3 Coppola-cam?

I believe she's actually dating Pasty Parisi's son, Patrick.

[molson]

The crazy rumor I heard is that Meadow is accidently killed while driving in Tony's car (b/c Phil's crew shoot up the car thinking Tony's inside).



There's a ton of variations of that rumor out there. The first one I heard was that AJ was driving Tony's car, and Bobby (who was working with NY and was trying to whack Tony), ran him off the road, and then fled when he found out it was AJ (but not before AJ recognized him). That one obviously, won't pan out.

[Captain2711]

I can't help but look at the connection of Meadow dating a Parisi. What would be the significance of mentioning that she is dating a mobster's son? They could've made her date anyone. And let's not forget that Patsy thought about killing Tony that opening scene when he was standing in Tony's yard. Don't know how that connects, but just food for thought.

[NoMyths]

I believe she's actually dating Pasty Parisi's son, Patrick.
Thaaaat's who I meant. Thanks for the save. :)

[Bearcat729]

Tony wakes up next to Suzanne Pleshette. This was all a dream sequence. :p

Yeah this sounds about right

[cartman]

I can't help but look at the connection of Meadow dating a Parisi. What would be the significance of mentioning that she is dating a mobster's son? They could've made her date anyone. And let's not forget that Patsy thought about killing Tony that opening scene when he was standing in Tony's yard. Don't know how that connects, but just food for thought.

She did date Jackie Aprile Jr. before Vito had to off him, so it's not like she hasn't dated a son of one of the crew.

[stevew]

This is what I don't get. I thought it was against the "thing" to target guys like Phil or any made man without approval. ESPECIALLY a boss. In between the attempted hit on Phil, and the curb stomp on Coco, I think Tony's gotta be a dead man. Some people from the other 4 families will have to get wind of what's going on, and step in to stop it.

Although I think Phil's one Consiglieri(i think), aka the fat balding guy(not the glass eye guy) seemed a bit hesitant to decapitate. I wonder if that puts him towards being the snitch in the NY family.

[Anthony]

This is what I don't get. I thought it was against the "thing" to target guys like Phil or any made man without approval. ESPECIALLY a boss. In between the attempted hit on Phil, and the curb stomp on Coco, I think Tony's gotta be a dead man. Some people from the other 4 families will have to get wind of what's going on, and step in to stop it.

Although I think Phil's one Consiglieri(i think), aka the fat balding guy(not the glass eye guy) seemed a bit hesitant to decapitate. I wonder if that puts him towards being the snitch in the NY family.

nope. it's cuz Phil's Consiglieri knew that to put a hit on a Boss was a no-no in the mob world. he couldn't outright say "i don't agree with you", the Boss is always right and to back off a hit is to show weakness and that means you'll be whacked too. just doing his job as a Consiglieri, trying to show that it really is a big deal to whack a Boss and his captains and what Phil was doing was out of control.

i don't think the ending is going to be this gigantic fireworks display. i think it will be more low-key as a couple others have said. i say the ending is Tony dies (i don't want him to) when his family is taken hostage by Phil's men and he's forced into a "either you go or they go" situation

i hope in the DVD set for this season they show what all 4 ending were gonna be. that'd be cool.

[Logan]

The crazy rumor I heard is that Meadow is accidently killed while driving in Tony's car (b/c Phil's crew shoot up the car thinking Tony's inside).

I would fuckin LOVE to see David Chase rip off Beverly Hills, 90210. Can we have a driving rainstorm too?

[stevew]

nope. it's cuz Phil's Consiglieri knew that to put a hit on a Boss was a no-no in the mob world. he couldn't outright say "i don't agree with you", the Boss is always right and to back off a hit is to show weakness and that means you'll be whacked too. just doing his job as a Consiglieri, trying to show that it really is a big deal to whack a Boss and his captains and what Phil was doing was out of control.



Well, the FBI guy said that their snitch said that the hit was on. So basically 3 main guys had to know about it at that stage, I think. I'd have to re-watch, but it definitely points towards the snitch in NY being a person very close to Phil. Although maybe they will never reveal who it was(most likely)

[cartman]

A little over 8 hours to go. I can't remember the last time I was this excited to watch a TV show.

[Hoya1]

yep. Should be a good one. I can't wait.

[jaygr]

Is it still just an hour long tonight?

[Scoobz0202]

TVGuide.com says it is 65 minutes long.

[stevew]

fuck, i gotta work at 10...that blows.

[Logan]

I'm already looking forward to people whining that they missed the end because their Tivo cut it off.

[stevew]

I live approximately 1 minute from my job...the 9:50ish oclock ending would be ok, but not 10:05. I guess I'll DVR and watch it in the morning.

[cartman]

I've been very impressed that the details of tonight's episode haven't been leaked. You would have thought somebody would have had enough money thrown their way to spill the beans. They must have said that you would have an actual mob hit put on you if you divulged any of the plot details.

[Logan]

I live approximately 1 minute from my job...the 9:50ish oclock ending would be ok, but not 10:05. I guess I'll DVR and watch it in the morning.

No offense, but every extra minute is a great thing in my book. Sorry to hear you'll miss it.

[stevew]

I've been very impressed that the details of tonight's episode haven't been leaked. You would have thought somebody would have had enough money thrown their way to spill the beans. They must have said that you would have an actual mob hit put on you if you divulged any of the plot details.

I wouldn't say that they haven't been leaked, as quite a bit of material throughout this season has been leaked correctly, weeks before it happens. It's just hard to say whether of the leaked info for this episode is actually correct until it's aired.

[NoMyths]

Anyone else excited?

[cartman]

It's time!

[cartman]

LOL

I knew something like that was coming. Perfect way to end. The guy going into the bathroom ala Michael in the Godfather.

You just know something bad is going to happen, then BOOM

nothing happens

[Noop]

MAN WTF

[RedKingGold]

I do kind of get the feeling we're going to have a "Seinfeldian" type ending where not much is really resolved.

Just wanted to say that I called it first. :)

[Qwikshot]

LOL

I knew something like that was coming. Perfect way to end. The guy going into the bathroom ala Michael in the Godfather.

You just know something bad is going to happen, then BOOM

nothing happens

I disagree...a lot did happen... there was resolution.

I loved the ending, it built up the tension, I kept waiting for the gun to go off.

[GoDukes]

That was pitiful

[cartman]

I disagree...a lot did happen... there was resolution.

I loved the ending, it built up the tension, I kept waiting for the gun to go off.

Oh, I agree a lot happened during the episode, I was only referring to the final scene. There were about six different bad things I was expecting to happen.

[Johnny93g]

Great ending. A perfect Soprano's ending. Left me wanting more.

[Qwikshot]

Oh, I agree a lot happened during the episode, I was only referring to the final scene. There were about six different bad things I was expecting to happen.

I think most people will disagree, but I'm fine with it. I thought it was good.

[RedKingGold]

There were about six different bad things I was expecting to happen.

And that was the absolutely beautiful thing about it. In all honesty, I would've been disappointed if Tony was whacked (unless he committed suicide) or if he flipped.

[GoDukes]

More shows need to take a lesson from Six Feet Unders finale.

[Bad-example]

I was very happy and relieved to see that after a long, tense ordeal, Meadow was able to get that car parked.

[Johnny93g]

Dont Stop.........Believing

[Qwikshot]

And that was the absolutely beautiful thing about it. In all honesty, I would've been disappointed if Tony was whacked (unless he committed suicide) or if he flipped.

This I agree with. The other scenarios were just to ambitious for the last hour.

I suspected Tony or Phil would die and life would move on, and since the series is called the "Sopranos", I figured Phil would be on the short end of things.

The last moments were truly the best though, it's ambiguous. Maybe the guy at the counter recognized Tony for Tony, maybe he was going to the bathroom to pick up a gun, I dunno.

I'll be curious to see what the commentary would be for this episode, I think this season was a great ending to things.

I loved Paulie and the cat, and Paulie at the kids table.
I loved how once again, AJ attempted to rise above the corruption only be shunted back into the ooze, he's a slimy bastard now.
Meadow going law, because of the horrible afflictions to Italian-Americans.

[GoDukes]

Great ending. A perfect Soprano's ending. Left me wanting more.

Well, I wouldnt really be bummed with that if the episode was so good that I didn't want it to end.

But I want more because the ending was incomplete. This was unlike this season we've seen. It was more like last seasons Kevin Finnerty nonsense.

[Johnny93g]

Well, I wouldnt really be bummed with that if the episode was so good that I didn't want it to end.

But I want more because the ending was incomplete. This was unlike this season we've seen. It was more like last seasons Kevin Finnerty nonsense.

I don't see at as incomplete. This is how the show is. Life goes on. There will be a tommorow in Soprano's world. We just wont see it.

[cartman]

The creators said they knew just how the show was going to end when they started out in season one. More power to them for telling the story they wanted to tell, and not change it based on what people that came in after they created it wanted it to end.

[PineTar]

http://www.thefobl.com/forums/images/smilies/sing.gif Don't stop believing....

[cartman]

I thought a Springsteen song would have been used, since it was Jersey. 'Born to Run' would have fit.

[Bad-example]

There will be a tommorow in Soprano's world. We just wont see it.

Unless they decide to make a movie at some point. I sense a huge payday at some point down the road.

[Logan]

I loved the final scene. That's how Tony will continue to live his life...always having to look at who's coming and going, wondering if that face coming through the door is the one to either put a bullet in his head or end up in cuffs.

[Hoya1]

terrific episode.

ended perfectly. This show was less about the mob, and more about family.

[cartman]

I loved the final scene. That's how Tony will continue to live his life...always having to look at who's coming and going, wondering if that face coming through the door is the one to either put a bullet in his head or end up in cuffs.

I just had a thought. Maybe the guy going into the bathroom was going to get a gun. Like he and Bobby said on the boat, you'll probably never hear it coming. He looked up to see Meadow walk through the door, and the screen went blank because he got a bullet in the head right at that moment.

[GoDukes]

I don't see at as incomplete. This is how the show is. Life goes on. There will be a tommorow in Soprano's world. We just wont see it.

Cop out. This will go down as a poor ending. The writers are charged with telling a story - and they couldn't end it. They got lazy and couldn't end the show.

[flounder]

I just had a thought. Maybe the guy going into the bathroom was going to get a gun. Like he and Bobby said on the boat, you'll probably never hear it coming. He looked up to see Meadow walk through the door, and the screen went blank because he got a bullet in the head right at that moment.

This gets my vote. Blank screen and no sound.

[Logan]

I just had a thought. Maybe the guy going into the bathroom was going to get a gun. Like he and Bobby said on the boat, you'll probably never hear it coming. He looked up to see Meadow walk through the door, and the screen went blank because he got a bullet in the head right at that moment.

It's funny...I had just told my friend that this is exactly what I thought happened, and I actually typed it out only to delete it. My stumbling block was...who ordered the hit? Basically all we have left is some renegade member of Phil's crew who is pissed. While I like the theory, it's not enough for me to think that's what happened.

[Ramzavail]

I just had a thought. Maybe the guy going into the bathroom was going to get a gun. Like he and Bobby said on the boat, you'll probably never hear it coming. He looked up to see Meadow walk through the door, and the screen went blank because he got a bullet in the head right at that moment.

I like this assumption. Very possible.

[thealmighty]

Am I the only one that noticed Tony had a different shirt on when he entered the diner than the one he had on while seated? I thought that it was a "Tony's ghost is there to see himself get whacked" kind of thing. Anyone else?

Someone go look and tell me I'm not drunk-while drinking Dr. Pepper only.

[Ramzavail]

Am I the only one that noticed Tony had a different shirt on when he entered the diner than the one he had on while seated? I thought that it was a "Tony's ghost is there to see himself get whacked" kind of thing. Anyone else?

Someone go look and tell me I'm not drunk-while drinking Dr. Pepper only.


nope, good catch, now that you brought it up, you are right. didnt notice at the time.

[Logan]

Cop out. This will go down as a poor ending. The writers are charged with telling a story - and they couldn't end it. They got lazy and couldn't end the show.

Okay...how do you end it? Obviously Tony wasn't going to die. He "won" in a sense. Phil's gone, and whoever takes over that crew will have a nice working relationship with Jersey.

So you're left with two options:

- Tony flipping. That would be disastrous to me. Tony has never shown the weakness that would warrant that, and it would be more of a "cop out" than what you're complaining about.

- Tony getting arrested. Okay, perfectly legitimate ending, right? But if the end of the episode is Tony getting taken in, how does that neatly wrap it up? Then you're left wondering if he's going to be convicted, if he's going to take a lesser sentence by ratting out some of his guys or NY, etc.

What you (and many, many others) seem to want is to see Tony end up getting cuffed, and then have a nice series of quick flashes displaying what happened to everyone, finally including, "Tony Soprano was convicted of 47 counts of interstate fraud, conspiracy, racketeering, etc and was sentenced to 35 years in prison. He will be eligible for parole in 2029."

THAT is a cop out.

[Logan]

Am I the only one that noticed Tony had a different shirt on when he entered the diner than the one he had on while seated? I thought that it was a "Tony's ghost is there to see himself get whacked" kind of thing. Anyone else?

Someone go look and tell me I'm not drunk-while drinking Dr. Pepper only.

It also looked like he was sitting somewhere very different than where he ended up sitting with the family.

Gonna need another viewing to figure out what was up with that.

[cartman]

Now, I'm curious. I wonder if either one of those shirts was worn by 'Kevin Finnerty'.

[Simms]

...Tony end up getting cuffed, and then have a nice series of quick flashes displaying what happened to everyone, finally including, "Tony Soprano was convicted of 47 counts of interstate fraud, conspiracy, racketeering, etc and was sentenced to 35 years in prison. He will be eligible for parole in 2029."

THAT is a cop out.

Amen.

As an aside, my wife and I were running around getting the kids into bed at 9, so we set the DVR to start taping and wound up about 2 minutes behind. When the screen went blank, we both sat bolt upright and started cursing a blue streak, thinking that the DVR had stopped taping. It took a few minutes to figure out exactly what was going on.

But I thought the ending was brilliant. Really, there is no way to "wrap up" the entire show without doing the Law and Order text flashes at the end. In my initial confusion over the blank screen, I told my wife that I was certain that the guy would appear in the bathroom doorway and take a shot at Tony, only to hit Meadow as she rushed in and sit down next to him. That still seems plausible, but the greatness of the ending is that so do about a half a dozen different scenarios. However you feel about the characters, the show, life in general ... the show ends however you want it to end.

[GoDukes]

Okay...how do you end it?

That's the job of the writers.


Obviously Tony wasn't going to die. He "won" in a sense. Phil's gone, and whoever takes over that crew will have a nice working relationship with Jersey.

So you're left with two options:

- Tony flipping. That would be disastrous to me. Tony has never shown the weakness that would warrant that, and it would be more of a "cop out" than what you're complaining about.

- Tony getting arrested. Okay, perfectly legitimate ending, right? But if the end of the episode is Tony getting taken in, how does that neatly wrap it up? Then you're left wondering if he's going to be convicted, if he's going to take a lesser sentence by ratting out some of his guys or NY, etc.

What you (and many, many others) seem to want is to see Tony end up getting cuffed, and then have a nice series of quick flashes displaying what happened to everyone, finally including, "Tony Soprano was convicted of 47 counts of interstate fraud, conspiracy, racketeering, etc and was sentenced to 35 years in prison. He will be eligible for parole in 2029."

THAT is a cop out.

I don't need to see that necessarily. I wanted the show to be wrapped up. I wanted everything that was told over the last 7 seasons to mean something.

[GoDukes]

the greatness of the ending is that so do about a half a dozen different scenarios. However you feel about the characters, the show, life in general ... the show ends however you want it to end.

See, that's why I think it's a copout. If I wanted to imagine some crime family, I can do that. But I'm watching a show where people are paid to write a story - not to give me ideas about a story in my head.

[Peregrine]

I really like the ending scene, just so many possibilities, and the fade to black leaves plenty to discuss. On the whole, though, I was disappointed with the final episode, it seemed to just try to wrap up too many meaningless threads without much happening.

[Karlifornia]

I thought the episode was disappointing right up until the end. The ending was great. It just leaves you to think. Journey's "Don't Stop Believing"...Man...I have gone from really disliking this song to reveling in it's cheesy power. It's like coke....after your first line, you're like "wtf is this shit?". And then, by the end of the night, after a few shots and a half dozen rails, it has you pumping your fist like an excited monkey.

[astrosfan64]

It was an ending.

[TazFTW]

Am I the only one that noticed Tony had a different shirt on when he entered the diner than the one he had on while seated? I thought that it was a "Tony's ghost is there to see himself get whacked" kind of thing. Anyone else?

Someone go look and tell me I'm not drunk-while drinking Dr. Pepper only.

Since they shot multiple endings there is a possibility that Tony's shirt got 'dirty' in one of them and had to use another one.

[primelord]

Am I the only one that noticed Tony had a different shirt on when he entered the diner than the one he had on while seated? I thought that it was a "Tony's ghost is there to see himself get whacked" kind of thing. Anyone else?

Someone go look and tell me I'm not drunk-while drinking Dr. Pepper only.

He isn't wearing a different shirt than when he came in. He came in with a jacket on. The part of the shirt you can see through the open jacket is the same color as that part of the shirt he is wearing in the booth.

[Schmidty]

I never watch one second of the show, but on a whim, I flipped to the show and watched the last 15 minutes. The acting was pretty good (except for the main guy's horrifically stupid voice) and it seemed well directed, but the ending made me think I didn't miss much.

[RedKingGold]

I wanted everything that was told over the last 7 seasons to mean something.

Then you were watching the wrong show if you wanted some sort of ending. Part of the lure and frustration with David Chase is that he is not conventional with beginnings and ends. If you don't believe me, watch the season preimeres and finales of The Sopranos over the years as well as the fascination with dream sequences.

See, that's why I think it's a copout. If I wanted to imagine some crime family, I can do that. But I'm watching a show where people are paid to write a story - not to give me ideas about a story in my head.

Your half-right here. Those people "are getting paid to write a story," but Chase has said from the very beginning that he was not sold on the typical rise and fall of a gangster story (as in Godfather and Goodfellas) and wasn't sure if he wanted to stick with that pattern.

IMO, the way it ended was the most realistic of all possible endings. There are other subtle things going on in that episode that make it great.

-Paulie's long looks of contempt for Tony v. duty to Tony every time they talked
-Tony starting to go on about his Mother at AJ's psychologist and the looks that Carmella was giving him while doing so.
-AJ's sudden fascination with the Army and then flaking out as he always does.

Thus, in truth, a lot of things were resolved:

-Tony's going to have the stress for the rest of his life until death or mental disease (why the visit with Uncle June was so important)
-AJ is going to be a flake for the rest of his life
-Meadow is never going to fulfill her potential
-Carmella is going to break-down soon, as well.

That was the whole meaning of this show. It was not a gangster type show. Chase wanted to show viewers the stress of the hidden mafia world and its impact on a person who can seem to be a hero even though he really is a villan. He did a great job, and you can tell the series was successful b/c you wanted more. I felt the same way after Seinfeld ended and both series ended in somewhat the same way.

Nevertheless, I doubt it's the last time you hear from the Soprano's. Someone will throw Chase or some other director and the actor's a boatload of cash to convince them to be in a two hour movie which will basically be a direct ripoff of Goodfellas. Me, I probably won't catch that one.

I never watch one second of the show, but on a whim, I flipped to the show and watched the last 15 minutes. The acting was pretty good (except for the main guy's horrifically stupid voice) and it seemed well directed, but the ending made me think I didn't miss much.

Typical.

[stevew]

That was a very good ending. And the Phil killing....that was an awesome hit.

[gottimd]

Much like alot of people I disliked the ending when I initially saw it but RedKingGold and others here make good points so I guess I can see the "artistic value" of the episode.

My wife and I thought our TiVo cut out, and she is still bitter about the ending. We had been watching all the episodes over again and in two weeks just finished through season 2. I loved the tension the entire episode because you thought there was going to a bloodbath of people being killed and you kept waiting at the edge of your seat. I definitely think there is room for a movie, and there would be one in a few years.

Question, why did they think Carlo flipped just because he missed a meeting? Isn't that a bit over presumptious? How many times did Christopher miss meetings or others were late? Why not suspect that he was whacked and not flipped?

I thought the cat was staring at the picture of Christopher because there was a small camera or something in it that the Feds had in there.

Why was Butchie and the NY family so eager to dump/turn on Phil after going so far with him? They alread whacked Tony's top guys, seemed like they threw in the towel too early.

I liked how Agent Harris was happy and said "We might win" when he found out about Phil. I guess over the years he has grown to like Tony so much that he was rooting for him. It was an interesting character turn to see the Agent Harris cheating on his wife as well, painting the picture of the fact that even the good guys are immoral as well.

So is Juniors condition implying that all Sopranos end up like that or something (if they aren't whacked or die of health problem)?

Is AJ going in the army another Godfather reference?

Tony's crew is so "beat up" to me. He has Paulie who seems like he is starting to dislike Tony. Sil is pretty much dead. Bobby is too. Carlo flipped. Basically he has Patsy, Benny, Walden (random character who was introduced late), his fat driver and who else? Why did NY cave into that? I guess they didn't want to have too much inner struggle.

EDIT: I did hear from other places that they filmed multiple endings. Was this to throw of the media or any spoilers so that know one knew what the real ending would be or do you think that these multiple endings will be released at some point if they were for real?

[Simms]

Question, why did they think Carlo flipped just because he missed a meeting? Isn't that a bit over presumptious? How many times did Christopher miss meetings or others were late? Why not suspect that he was whacked and not flipped?


Should be the other way around, I think ... he missed the meeting because he flipped. Paulie made a reference to his son (I think?) getting picked up on a drug charge the day before, with the implication being that he flipped to get him off the hook.

[gottimd]

Should be the other way around, I think ... he missed the meeting because he flipped. Paulie made a reference to his son (I think?) getting picked up on a drug charge the day before, with the implication being that he flipped to get him off the hook.

So I am almost positive there were numerous times when Christopher missed meetings, they never automatically assumed he flipped?

And where did AJ get the BMW from when a scene earlier they said they aren't getting him a new car?

[stevew]

I rewatched the ending, it seems as if there is a focus on the 2 black guys walking in, and you can see that Tony didn't see them. Now maybe they were just there to get some food, but it would almost be a full circle thing if they did do the job....aka the whole thing where he made up the one story to cover his panic attack that kept him from getting pinched with Tony B.

Just a thought anyways.

[Simms]

So I am almost positive there were numerous times when Christopher missed meetings, they never automatically assumed he flipped?

*shurg* They knew the feds were closing in ... maybe the surrounding environment was more conducive to that kind of paranoia than it had been in the past.

And where did AJ get the BMW from when a scene earlier they said they aren't getting him a new car?

AJ told his girlfriend there wasn't any public transportation out where he was working, so they "had" to get him a new car. He made sure it wasn't an SUV though. I suspect it was also a bit of a bribe to get him to give up the Army talk.

[gottimd]

*shurg* They knew the feds were closing in ... maybe the surrounding environment was more conducive to that kind of paranoia than it had been in the past.
The Feds had been closing in for many years. It just seemed a bit too much to speculate so soon. The Feds have always been on their tail since Altieri flipped, and years before that.

At that moment though, there was less suspicion of the Feds closing in, and more of a worry about the on going family war. Aliteri flipping, Pussy flipping, Bevilacqua murder, Fake Airline tickets, Johnny Sac arrest are all times I can think of when the Feds seemed to be a lot closer than this last episode.

[Logan]

That's the job of the writers.




I don't need to see that necessarily. I wanted the show to be wrapped up. I wanted everything that was told over the last 7 seasons to mean something.

Your first response is perfectly typical. The writers did do their job; you just didn't like it because there was no nice little bow on top.

Why should the show be "wrapped up?" His life isn't over, he survived the biggest attempted hit on himself and his Family to this point, so he continues to go on, always on the lookout for the guy coming to kill him. RKG hit the biggest point:

Chase wanted to show viewers the stress of the hidden mafia world and its impact on a person who can seem to be a hero even though he really is a villan.

[Desmond]

I thought the final scene was a homage or wrap up to the entire Terrorist storyline as well as melding with the "it could come at any moment" fear that Tony lives in. Admit that when you were watching it that you were leery of the Italian dude, and then when the black guys walked in you (the royal you, or "we" as it may be) of course were leery of them. Even the middle aged hunter dude with USA on his hat was focused on. We were all waiting for it to come from somewhere and someone, which is what life has become post 9/11. Even if it's not a someone it can be a something, like hurrying across a street at night.

The viewer saw evil in everything that happened in that final 5 minutes even though in the end nothing happened.

At the end of the day no matter how paranoid we are we just wanna sit down with our loved ones, have some good food, and not stop believing.

[stevew]

interesting article about the "Man in the Members only Jacket"

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/111-06092007-1360360.html

[CleBrownsfan]

So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the black guys at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends

[gottimd]

Where did you get that info from? I could see Nikki Leotardo, but wouldn't Tony recognize him if he was sitting there for that long? As for the trucker, that sounds like speculation and same with the two black kids. Screen shot comparisons?!?!?!?

[Mateo]

So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the black guys at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends

I read this exact quote from the HBO boards. I love it when random people post shit they see and make it sound like they got the inside scoop...

[Subby]

A Bang-Up Finale For 'The Sopranos' (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/11/AR2007061100025.html?referrer=emailarticle)

By Tom Shales
Monday, June 11, 2007; Page C01

It may have been the greatest double-take -- by the audience -- in the history of American television.

Millions of viewers who might have thought something had gone wrong with their TV sets or cable systems last night were mistaken. When the picture vanished at the end, the very end, of "The Sopranos" and the screen went black, that was producer David Chase's unorthodox and arguably ingenious way of ending the series and dispatching the Soprano family to eternity.

Chase set up the audience to expect an assassination, perhaps of the whole Soprano family: Tony, Carmela, Anthony Jr. and Meadow, who were sitting in a nostalgically old-fashioned diner about to order dinner. Menacing strangers entered. One went into the men's room, a seeming reference to a famous shooting in "The Godfather" in which a gun was hidden in a water closet.

And then -- while Journey's "Don't Stop Believing" played on a vintage jukebox and the family members made everyday small talk -- the Sopranos disappeared. No shots were fired. Whether they all would have been killed in the next scene, or lived several more years, or even made it to old age, was not specified.

These great mythic characters, who have captivated HBO viewers for nearly a decade, are now suspended in space and the national imagination forever.

An attentive HBO executive who was watching the episode for the second time said the last image, of Tony's face, was seen just as the words "don't stop" were sung on the jukebox. The episode was littered with references to mortality -- life, death, even the Apocalypse in a poem by William Butler Yeats. Only Chase could mix Yeats with the theme from "The Twilight Zone" and Simon & Garfunkel's "Cecilia" played as a cellphone chime and make it all jell.

As always, "The Sopranos" was a catalogue of references from the mundane to the profound, but the finale was the biggest guessing game of all: Who would die, who would live? Fans of the show hoping to see the evil Phil Leotardo get his saw one of the grisliest deaths in the series:

After being shot in the head, Leotardo falls dead to a gas station driveway. The SUV from which he'd emerged proceeds to run over his skull, crushing it and causing his two little grandchildren in their car seats to feel a little bump. It was macabre and bizarre in a way that only "Sopranos" could bring off.

Throughout the episode, Chase paid farewell visits to many of the regular "Sopranos" haunts, including the Bada Bing Club ("the Bing" to its mob owners), Satriale's Pork Store, and the Soprano home once the family felt safe enough to move out of hiding and back into it. In the end, Tony's problem with the feuding mob boss Leotardo was solved with the help of an FBI agent, who could in his way have been as morally corrupt as Tony in his.

But "The Sopranos" was not judgmental. It could be maddeningly neutral and even amoral; Tony Soprano, so powerfully played by James Gandolfini, could be a vicious killer one moment and dear old daddy the next. He loomed a giant figure from the first episode to last night's blistering and shattering finale.

Even posthumous characters showed up or were mentioned last night. Tony's malicious mother is still in his thoughts: "I never could please my mother," Tony said sorrowfully to his son's new therapist. Tony's own therapist, in an unlikely turn of events, dropped him as a patient last week, but now Tony's very, very confused son is seeking a shrink of his own. So the torch is passed to a new generation.

At a mental hospital, Tony visited the notorious old Uncle Junior, who was once instructed by Tony's own mother to kill him and later, in the throes of dotage and Alzheimer's, shot Tony in the stomach. Uncle Junior, dazed and deluded, exists somewhere between the living and the dead.

And Tony's nephew Christopher, whose life Tony himself ended in a recent episode, returned as a photo on the wall that a stray cat for some reason stared at obsessively -- even when the photo was moved to another spot.

HBO has had greater success with "The Sopranos" than any premium cable network has ever had with any series -- not just in terms of audience size but in terms of inspiring conversations, arguments, discussions and re-viewings of episodes.

Wherever two or three are gathered around a water cooler this morning, "The Sopranos" is likely to be a subject of discussion.

It's a classic now, and one that will live on for years.

[Simms]

The Feds had been closing in for many years. It just seemed a bit too much to speculate so soon. The Feds have always been on their tail since Altieri flipped, and years before that.

At that moment though, there was less suspicion of the Feds closing in, and more of a worry about the on going family war. Aliteri flipping, Pussy flipping, Bevilacqua murder, Fake Airline tickets, Johnny Sac arrest are all times I can think of when the Feds seemed to be a lot closer than this last episode.

I know where you're coming from, and I'm not saying I disagree necessarily. Just that it didn't jump out at me as being completely implausible.

[CleBrownsfan]

I read this exact quote from the HBO boards. I love it when random people post shit they see and make it sound like they got the inside scoop...

I meant to insert th post I got this from:

hxxp://tv.com/the-sopranos/show/314/board/411/topics.html

Inside scoop? I'm just reading shit about the ending as other people are... chill :rolleyes: