Poll: rBGH in your Dairy Products

[lungs]

I figured this forum has a wide variety of people so I thought I'd elicit the opinions of the fine people here on a topic that is big in my industry.

Basically, I'm just wondering about your buying habits when you purchase dairy products and how careful you look at the labels.

For those that do not know what rBGH is, it is a supplemental hormone that is injected into cows in order for them to produce more milk.

[lordscarlet]

I have no idea. When my fiance becomes my wife and moves in I will probably have soy milk half the time.

[wade moore]

None of these really fit me.

I just grab whatever is on the shelf.. I don't pay attention to cost or the label.

[st.cronin]

I find that thinking about stuff like hormones in my food ruins my ability to enjoy life.

[flere-imsaho]

This will surprise no one who knows my posting history, but my wife & I are among the group of consumers who provide a market for organic products (and I'll lump non-hormone foods into that category). The catalysts for me on this were:

1. Living in Britain during the BSE scare.
2. Reading Fast Food Nation.
3. Reading My Year of Meats.

[lungs]

I'll let the poll take its course, but I'll have some interesting things for people to know, especially for you flere.

Wade, I'd probably say you are in the first category (which I should've written better). The first category would basically be the "I don't give a rat's ass, I just buy whatever is there" option.

[wade moore]

I'll let the poll take its course, but I'll have some interesting things for people to know, especially for you flere.

Wade, I'd probably say you are in the first category (which I should've written better). The first category would basically be the "I don't give a rat's ass, I just buy whatever is there" option.

Ok, voted.

[Abe Sargent]

Where's the "I buy what tastes best, hormoes or no hormones" answer?

[lungs]

Where's the "I buy what tastes best, hormoes or no hormones" answer?

I should've never put the word cheapest in the first option, but my thinking along those lines was that products advertised as hormone free tend to be higher priced.

[condors]

I saw the future of food documentary and was under the impression that pretty much all us vegtables were genetically enginered and contain bacteria to deal with pesticides. I do get my dairy from a local dairy farm that i used to work at as a kid and the owners were very good to me so i am a loyalist. I have no idea if they do or don't have rBGH but i was also under the impression that information does not have to be on the label. If chick-fil-a or KFC use enginered chickens i am already screwed.

[beargrowlz]

None of these really fit me.

I just grab whatever is on the shelf.. I don't pay attention to cost or the label.

Ditto.

It's generally why my wife panics whenever I say I'll pick something up on the way home. LOL.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I voted option 1, but it's not actually the cheapest, it's just the brand we prefer.

No idea whether it's from a cow who gets the clear before giving the cream or not, and zero interest whether it did or didn't.

[gstelmack]

I don't pay much attention to stuff like this for several reasons:

1) I remember reading about how the guy who started the whole "carcinogen" scare back in the 60s completely changed his tune when he found out how much formaldehyde is in apples. Everyone goes way overboard with all this stuff.

2) Food science changes every freakin' month. "Don't eat protein", "Don't eat fat", "Don't eat carbs", what's left? "Anti-oxidants will prolong your life", oh wait, now they MUST be in food (so there is some other factor that makes them effective that they don't know about yet). etc etc etc etc. Anytime someone tells me not to eat something or to make sure I eat something, 3 months later they are telling me the opposite or "never mind".

So I live by the mantra "you need a little bit of everything, and too much of anything can kill you".

[lungs]

I find it pretty telling that nobody has voted for the most anti-BGH option.

The thing is, this rBGH non-rBGH thing is pretty much a matter of processors pulling the wool over people's eyes and scaring them into thinking they are getting a safer product. BGH and non-BGH milk are one and the same thing. Cows naturally secrete the hormone in their milk. I wish somebody could explain to me how a human is supposed to metabolize the proteins in this hormone. It's not possible, that's why.

The funny thing is that there are no reliable tests to differentiate between the two types of milk. Abosolutely none. So how can processors differentiate in the product they sell? The farmers sign affidavits pledging that they will not inject this hormone into their cows. Guess what? There are plenty of farmers that will sign the document and then start buying the hormone under the table from other farmers who are still using. How do I know this? Well, I've sold plenty of the hormone to people that sell their milk to rBGH-free plants.

It's all a big scam by the companies that sell the milk. They are scaring people into thinking that they are putting out a safer product and then marking up the price. In terms of money you spend at the store, it's usually not much more than $.30/gallon so people think it's a small price to pay for safety. But when we are talking in terms of premiums that farmers get for stopping its usage, we are talking about $.30 per hundred pounds. The in store markups are approximately $4.00 per hundred pounds of milk.

Tell me this... who is getting the good deal here? The consumer is getting screwed by thinking he/she is getting a safer product when there is no way to differentiate between the two and paying more for it in the process. The farmer is getting screwed by losing 10 lbs. of production for each cow each day. FWIW, the processors would need to pay in excess of $2.00 per hundred lbs of milk for me to even consider ending my use of rBGH.

So in conclusion... if you are paying more for rBGH-free milk, you are getting screwed.

[MrBug708]

<-- Allergic to dairy

[flounder]

<-- Allergic to dairy

ditto.

[DanGarion]

I find it pretty telling that nobody has voted for the most anti-BGH option.

The thing is, this rBGH non-rBGH thing is pretty much a matter of processors pulling the wool over people's eyes and scaring them into thinking they are getting a safer product. BGH and non-BGH milk are one and the same thing. Cows naturally secrete the hormone in their milk. I wish somebody could explain to me how a human is supposed to metabolize the proteins in this hormone. It's not possible, that's why.

The funny thing is that there are no reliable tests to differentiate between the two types of milk. Abosolutely none. So how can processors differentiate in the product they sell? The farmers sign affidavits pledging that they will not inject this hormone into their cows. Guess what? There are plenty of farmers that will sign the document and then start buying the hormone under the table from other farmers who are still using. How do I know this? Well, I've sold plenty of the hormone to people that sell their milk to rBGH-free plants.

It's all a big scam by the companies that sell the milk. They are scaring people into thinking that they are putting out a safer product and then marking up the price. In terms of money you spend at the store, it's usually not much more than $.30/gallon so people think it's a small price to pay for safety. But when we are talking in terms of premiums that farmers get for stopping its usage, we are talking about $.30 per hundred pounds. The in store markups are approximately $4.00 per hundred pounds of milk.

Tell me this... who is getting the good deal here? The consumer is getting screwed by thinking he/she is getting a safer product when there is no way to differentiate between the two and paying more for it in the process. The farmer is getting screwed by losing 10 lbs. of production for each cow each day. FWIW, the processors would need to pay in excess of $2.00 per hundred lbs of milk for me to even consider ending my use of rBGH.

So in conclusion... if you are paying more for rBGH-free milk, you are getting screwed.
The main problem with anything that deals with farming is the fact that the government still provides subsides for farmers. I'm sorry but this is something that needs to really be stopped. I understand it supposedly keeps prices down and etc, but why don't we let supply and demand set the market price instead of subsidies. Does it really seem fair that farmers get money to not grow things still?...

Anyway I don't know all about the farming industry but this is how I understand it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farming_subsidies

[lordscarlet]

And my understanding is that subsidies actually harm the farmer and the land in the way that they are applied by the United States.

[lungs]

The main problem with anything that deals with farming is the fact that the government still provides subsides for farmers. I'm sorry but this is something that needs to really be stopped. I understand it supposedly keeps prices down and etc, but why don't we let supply and demand set the market price instead of subsides. Does it really seem fair that farmers get money to not grow things still?...

Anyway I don't know all about the farming industry but this is how I understand it...

The subsidies are mainly in the grain area of things which I know nothing about. I don't think any corn farmers will be getting subsidies to not grow with the high demand for ethanol. Our subsidies in dairy are almost non-existant besides low-interest loans and grants for environmental improvement projects.

The only problem with a 100% free market system in dairy is that you have companies like Kraft that will stockpile cheese and wait until the price for raw milk goes up at which point they will flood the market with the cheese, thus driving the price of milk down.

Right now the high demand for corn (ethanol) is driving the price of milk up because these mega-dairies out west can't grow their own corn and they have to buy it at unheard of prices. Here in the Midwest, we simply grow our own corn :)

[DanGarion]

Honestly agricultural subsidies and why we care more about AIDS in Africa then issues in our own country are two things I guess I'll never understand...

(and yes I know they are completely different things, but they are just two topics I really can't grasp as to why they are...)

[DanGarion]

The subsidies are mainly in the grain area of things which I know nothing about. I don't think any corn farmers will be getting subsidies to not grow with the high demand for ethanol. Our subsidies in dairy are almost non-existant besides low-interest loans and grants for environmental improvement projects.

The only problem with a 100% free market system in dairy is that you have companies like Kraft that will stockpile cheese and wait until the price for raw milk goes up at which point they will flood the market with the cheese, thus driving the price of milk down.

Right now the high demand for corn (ethanol) is driving the price of milk up because these mega-dairies out west can't grow their own corn and they have to buy it at unheard of prices. Here in the Midwest, we simply grow our own corn :)
My understanding is the way it currently is the supply for corn can't meet the demand. Do you happen to know if they are using GE corn for ethanol? Since some of those can grow in just about any environment from what I remember reading.

[lungs]

My understanding is the way it currently is the supply for corn can't meet the demand. Do you happen to know if they are using GE corn for ethanol? Since some of those can grow in just about any environment from what I remember reading.

Yeah, corn is in high supply due to the fact that pretty much every type of meat you eat has corn as a major staple in its diet and then this ethanol thing came about. The prices for corn are at all time highs if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not sure what type of corn they are using for ethanol but it's probably safe to say that there is some GE corn going to that. My crop knowledge is weak for a farmer. I hire others to figure that out for me :)

[DanGarion]

Yeah, corn is in high supply due to the fact that pretty much every type of meat you eat has corn as a major staple in its diet and then this ethanol thing came about. The prices for corn are at all time highs if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not sure what type of corn they are using for ethanol but it's probably safe to say that there is some GE corn going to that. My crop knowledge is weak for a farmer. I hire others to figure that out for me :)
I did a little reading right now, and it basically said if you are a normal person and you have corn, soy, cotton, or rapeseed (canola) products you basically are running into GE stuff, since about 60% of corn is GE.

Anyway I don't like subsidies! :)

[lungs]

Anyway I don't like subsidies! :)

I don't blame you.

Can't say I'm a big fan of them (keeps the inferior competition from going belly up) but I'll take 'em if I can get 'em.

[DanGarion]

I don't blame you.

Can't say I'm a big fan of them (keeps the inferior competition from going belly up) but I'll take 'em if I can get 'em.

Yeah I can understand that. Just remember who's giving them too you and vote for them... ;)

This was a little funny story by Dave Berry I found about our much needed mohair subsidies.

http://www.vwi.unibe.ch/unibe/wiso/vwi/content/e8950/e8957/files8966/barry_farm_eng.pdf

[JediKooter]

Whatever is cheapest and is whole vitamin D. None of that sissy 1% watered down stuff.

[Ryche]

I'd drink gasoline if it tasted good, I really don't care what is injected into my food.

[Warhammer]

Since we started genetically engineering our food back when we were hunter gatherers and then started to settle down, put me down for the whatever fills me up best category.

[DanGarion]

Since we started genetically engineering our food back when we were hunter gatherers and then started to settle down, put me down for the whatever fills me up best category.
That's the funny thing about most GE stuff, we learn about it in biology in Junior High, about grafting and all that stuff, but then people are all scared because companies have made super food.