Choosing an EPL side

[Young Drachma]

So..I'm sitting here working from home today and it just so happens that the Champions League semifinal is on. And I have Fox Soccer Channel too.

So I was thinking, "maybe I should find a team to root for." Especially since the Blue Jays aren't planning to win much these days in baseball.

Anyway...I guess I don't even know where to start.

I know Bill Simmons did this a few years back. But..he's lame and so, I'd come here and get some ideas/suggestions/comments on this whole thing.

So...where does on begin?

[SirFozzie]

1st Step: I'd wait two more games until the end of the 06-07 season. That way you KNOW the team that you choose will be up in 07-08.

2nd Step: Avoid the Big Four (Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal), unless you want to be considered a bandwagon fan.

3rd Step: Look for a team that either plays attacking soccer (lots of goals scored/given up), or plays bigger then it should be (Reading is a big one, Fulham/Wigan are around there, but they're in the quagmire of a relegation battle)

[Travis]

I guess not really on topic and a bit of a thread jack, but I find your lack of faith in the Blue Jays quite disturbing. If they can hold the fort until Ryan comes back (healthy and not giving up runs the way he did to start the season), with this lineup they should have a shot at the wild card.

Yes, I'm a bit biased towards them, but so long as the pitching staff is respectable (and the rotation can be, the pen should be pretty stable once Ryan returns), it shouldn't be out of the question.

As for the topic at hand, yeah, way outside my area of knowledge, good luck with your search.

[Young Drachma]

I guess not really on topic and a bit of a thread jack, but I find your lack of faith in the Blue Jays quite disturbing. If they can hold the fort until Ryan comes back (healthy and not giving up runs the way he did to start the season), with this lineup they should have a shot at the wild card.

Yes, I'm a bit biased towards them, but so long as the pitching staff is respectable (and the rotation can be, the pen should be pretty stable once Ryan returns), it shouldn't be out of the question.

As for the topic at hand, yeah, way outside my area of knowledge, good luck with your search.

I was just kidding. I love the Jays more than any other team. I mean, even the Devils, because I've been a Jays fan longer and I'm FROM New Jersey no less.

The Jays aren't nearly as crap as we were during the Gord Ash era and Rogers is spending money, so I have no real complaints. And whenever my Red Sox, Yankee or Oriole friends heckle me, I always say "it's a long season, relax."

So...it's cool. It was just a segue mentioning the Jays at all. Though surely we'd agree that the uniforms needs to be switched to put the Canadian flag back in there somewhere. In OOTP, I've resorting to changing the logos back to the 1977-1995 era.

I'd meant to do this a few weeks ago and forgot to ask about it.

:)

[Crapshoot]

1st Step: I'd wait two more games until the end of the 06-07 season. That way you KNOW the team that you choose will be up in 07-08.

2nd Step: Avoid the Big Four (Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal), unless you want to be considered a bandwagon fan.

3rd Step: Look for a team that either plays attacking soccer (lots of goals scored/given up), or plays bigger then it should be (Reading is a big one, Fulham/Wigan are around there, but they're in the quagmire of a relegation battle)

I dunno Foz - I got into Liverpool 4-5 years ago, and I don't think it neccessarily makes you a bandwagon fan - there's a lot about the club in terms of history and lore that's remarkably appealing, in a way that johnny-come-lately's like Chelsea simply don't have. :twocents:

In the same way, I can understand why Arsenal are popular - they play better football than just about anyone, and its easier for someone getting into the game.

IMO, rooting shouldn't be a chore.

[Young Drachma]

1st Step: I'd wait two more games until the end of the 06-07 season. That way you KNOW the team that you choose will be up in 07-08.

2nd Step: Avoid the Big Four (Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal), unless you want to be considered a bandwagon fan.

3rd Step: Look for a team that either plays attacking soccer (lots of goals scored/given up), or plays bigger then it should be (Reading is a big one, Fulham/Wigan are around there, but they're in the quagmire of a relegation battle)

I'm okay with picking up a team that gets relegated. Yeah, it'd be harder to watch them on TV, but...that's ok. It'll test my fan mettle from the start.

And I pretty much planned to avoid any of the clubs that would go against my grain as a fan of teams that are perhaps successful or maybe not, but never, ever juggernauts.

[SirFozzie]

I'm okay with picking up a team that gets relegated. Yeah, it'd be harder to watch them on TV, but...that's ok. It'll test my fan mettle from the start.

And I pretty much planned to avoid any of the clubs that would go against my grain as a fan of teams that are perhaps successful or maybe not, but never, ever juggernauts.

I'd look at the midtables then, Charlton, Wigan, Fulham, Blackburn, Manchester City, Reading

Fulham DOES have three Americans on its roster (Bocanegra, Dempsey, McBride)

(edit: Oh yeah, if you can, get DirecTV, a DVR and FSC/Setanta for like 6-7 games a week)

[Young Drachma]

I dunno Foz - I got into Liverpool 4-5 years ago, and I don't think it neccessarily makes you a bandwagon fan - there's a lot about the club in terms of history and lore that's remarkably appealing, in a way that johnny-come-lately's like Chelsea simply don't have. :twocents:

In the same way, I can understand why Arsenal are popular - they play better football than just about anyone, and its easier for someone getting into the game.

IMO, rooting shouldn't be a chore.

I do really, really enjoy the history of teams. It's pretty neat to have all of that. And consider that none of the teams I root for in other sports are "older, experienced" teams...it probably means that I could be wooed by a cool story or players that are young, interesting, etc.

My favourite teams that I've rooted for are:

NBA: I don't really care. I'm partial to the Nets because I'm from Jersey. But since they're "supposedly" moving, I've just stopped caring. The Raptors are okay.
NHL: New Jersey Devils
MLB: Toronto Blue Jays
NFL: New York Jets
MLS: Really, really, really don't care.

I really only root for the Devils and Blue Jays. I like to see the other teams do well and that's about it.

[Critch]

Fozzie is right about the big four, avoid them to avoid the bandwagon. That would be like a European supporting the Yankees.

Also avoid the relegation battlers, what's the point of supporting a team that may be off the tv after only one year? So that gets rid of whichever three teams come up plus Wigan, Fulham, Sheffield Utd, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth (one season wonders), Reading (sophomore slump), Blackburn (probably not relegation, just boring).

So that gets us down to a more manageable 6 teams: Tottenham, Everton, Aston Villa, Newcastle Utd, Manchester City, Bolton.

Discount Tottenham, normally a good choice but I'm pretty sure that's who Simmons chose. Discount Bolton because they're violent long ball cloggers. Discount Man City because they're Man City. Discount Newcastle Utd because they're vaguely bandwagonish despite the lack of success, plus people might think you chose because of the movie Goal! (which sucked).

So that gets us down to Everton or Aston Villa. Flip a coin?

[flere-imsaho]

So that gets us down to Everton or Aston Villa. Flip a coin?

Go Everton if you want to live with a constant inferiority complex to Liverpool (or martyr's complex, if you prefer). Go Aston Villa if you're OK with pretty constant mediocrity, though when they've had decent managers they've been pretty good.

[Oilers9911]

I disagree with avoiding the big 4. WHo cares if people think you are a bandwagon fan as long as you know you are not? I began following Liverpool in the early 90s because of their history, tradition and the lore of Anfield.

Since then of course they have never won a title although they did win Europe in 2004-05 and have had UEFA, FA and League Cup success. If you truly appreciate the club who cares what others think.

Go to Wikipedia or other soccer sites and read up on the history of some of the teams, visit their supporters sites and read more there. Maybe you will just find something that grabs you. Also, play Football Manager and you may discover your favourite club there.

[Critch]

Go Everton if you want to live with a constant inferiority complex to Liverpool (or martyr's complex, if you prefer).

He's a Blue Jays fan. It'll feel familiar.

[3ric]

Tottenham is a good choice - an exciting strike partnership in Robbie Keane/Dimitar Berbatov. The two Jermain(e)'s (Defoe and Jenas) are exciting players as well, and I'd pay to watch Aaron Lennon.

[Sweed]

Interesting topic and I hope to one day be able to see enough matches on tv, without having to justify the expense, to follow the EPL closely.

If and when I'm in that position what club to you think a Cub fan should follow?:D A team that will on occasion break you heart and always leave you "waiting 'til next year".

[SirFozzie]

Interesting topic and I hope to one day be able to see enough matches on tv, without having to justify the expense, to follow the EPL closely.

If and when I'm in that position what club to you think a Cub fan should follow?:D A team that will on occasion break you heart and always leave you "waiting 'til next year".

Manchester City.

[Critch]

If and when I'm in that position what club to you think a Cub fan should follow?:D A team that will on occasion break you heart and always leave you "waiting 'til next year".

Big team, large fan base, long suffering, never wins anything despite throwing around the cash = Newcastle United.

[Young Drachma]

I disagree with avoiding the big 4. WHo cares if people think you are a bandwagon fan as long as you know you are not? I began following Liverpool in the early 90s because of their history, tradition and the lore of Anfield.

Since then of course they have never won a title although they did win Europe in 2004-05 and have had UEFA, FA and League Cup success. If you truly appreciate the club who cares what others think.

Go to Wikipedia or other soccer sites and read up on the history of some of the teams, visit their supporters sites and read more there. Maybe you will just find something that grabs you. Also, play Football Manager and you may discover your favourite club there.

I do play a lot of WWSM, though not recently. Maybe it's time to fire her up and see what I can't manage to do. Good plan.

[MIJB#19]

MLS: Really, really, really don't care.Why? Now seems to be the perfect time to jump into this league, especially Red Bull New York. And why limit yourself to only English clubs?

[Young Drachma]

He's a Blue Jays fan. It'll feel familiar.

:D

[Young Drachma]

Why? Now seems to be the perfect time to jump into this league, especially Red Bull New York. And why limit yourself to only English clubs?

I watch MLS games when they are on. But honestly, it has the hardest time holding my attention. A lot of it has to do with the single-entity structure, the lack of organic player movement. Once there is a team in Portland, Rochester or Philadelphia..I might decide to root for one of them. Mostly because I just want to see the league hit up different kinds of markets. And the whole existance of Chivas USA really undermines the league's credibility in my mind, though the soccer-specific stadiums are impressive.

It's akin to watching minor league baseball. It's kitsch, but it's just not doing it for me.

And I'm not really limiting myself to English clubs. I'd envision a favourite team in each of the European leagues as time goes on. At least for the ones that I care about. This was just a start and prompted largely because of the game that's on now.

[Katon]

I dunno Foz - I got into Liverpool 4-5 years ago, and I don't think it neccessarily makes you a bandwagon fan - there's a lot about the club in terms of history and lore that's remarkably appealing, in a way that johnny-come-lately's like Chelsea simply don't have. :twocents:


This would be the same Chelsea that was winning European trophies before Liverpool did anything on the continent? The one that just completed a century in its original stadium?

I actually agree with most of what you're saying. Just couldn't let you get away with slandering my team :D .

[ISiddiqui]

If you like constant disappointment you can root for the team that I root for, Newcastle United ;). Always buying a few nice names in transfer market, but never the right positions (get some defenders will you?!!) and while threatening for a decent position, end up mid table.

Oh, and you can curse at "Fat Freddie" all you want.

[ISiddiqui]

Why? Now seems to be the perfect time to jump into this league, especially Red Bull New York. And why limit yourself to only English clubs?

Indeed... I'm trying to get back into MLS (I left it for a while after following the Metrostarts in the mid 90s). I'll looking at Red Bull NY, since I'm from Jersey and followed the Metros, but I REALLY want a team in the SouthEast to back.

[Crapshoot]

Big team, large fan base, long suffering, never wins anything despite throwing around the cash = Newcastle United.

Definitely. Bonus points, they have an idiot for a chairman and a manager who doesn't have his qualifications. :D

[BYU 14]

Tottenham hands down. The most exciting team in the EPL, they are like the Soccer version of Coryell's Chargers. You can usually count on their games being back and forth and can count on spectacular plays by both sides.

Berbatov and Keane are both solid strikers and Aaron Lennon is possibly the most exciting player in the EPL, he isn't great on Defense and can be streaky, but when he is on, give him the ball in open space and it is usually magical......and just barely turned 20. Chimbonda is also arguably one of the more offensive Defenders in the EPL and a great Ball handler.

[SunDevil]

Aston Villa. I'm choosing them. And considering that WWSM 07 just came in the mail today and this thread was posted today, I think all the signs are aligned for me to finally get into this game this year. :D

[Crapshoot]

Tottenham hands down. The most exciting team in the EPL, they are like the Soccer version of Coryell's Chargers. You can usually count on their games being back and forth and can count on spectacular plays by both sides.

Berbatov and Keane are both solid strikers and Aaron Lennon is possibly the most exciting player in the EPL, he isn't great on Defense and can be streaky, but when he is on, give him the ball in open space and it is usually magical......and just barely turned 20. Chimbonda is also arguably one of the more offensive Defenders in the EPL and a great Ball handler.

Cmon - Arsenal have this, hands down. In full flow, there is no better team to watch.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Mostly because I just want to see the league hit up different kinds of markets.
MLS was the first top-level pro league into Columbus, although their other teams have all been in "traditional" markets.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Cmon - Arsenal have this, hands down. In full flow, there is no better team to watch.

Arsenal may play prettier football, but I'm not sure there's a more exciting team to watch than Tottenham. They strike me as having more reliable finishing, plus their defense is not nearly at the same level as their offense, leading to more high-scoring games.

[BYU 14]

Cmon - Arsenal have this, hands down. In full flow, there is no better team to watch outside of Tottenham.

Fixed it for you

Arsenal may play prettier football, but I'm not sure there's a more exciting team to watch than Tottenham. They strike me as having more reliable finishing, plus their defense is not nearly at the same level as their offense, leading to more high-scoring games.

And I agree here, Arsenal is the more technically sound side, but if you want a team that will always have you glued to the TV it has to be Spurs as most of their games are up for grabs all the way through.

[Huckleberry]

You can either support Manchester City or be a wanker. Your choice.

[BYU 14]

You can either support Manchester City or be a wanker. Your choice.

I choose Wanker.....hell you can even call me faggoty if you like, more than a fair trade :)

[Oilers9911]

You can either support Manchester City or have Joey Barton bust your face. Your choice.

Fixed it for you :)

[Marc Vaughan]

You can either support Manchester City or be a wanker. Your choice.

My wife will love this post - she's a City fan :D

[Oilers9911]

When you walk......through a storm......

[Ryan S]

When you walk......through a storm......

Are you suggesting he supports Celtic? ;)

[SirFozzie]

Are you suggesting he supports Celtic? ;)

If he can answer the question, "Where in Ireland is Glasgow"? He's a Celtic fan ;)

[Izulde]

Is there a Spanish equivalent of Tottenham out of curiosity?

[SirFozzie]

Is there a Spanish equivalent of Tottenham out of curiosity?

Maybe Villarreal, The Yellow Submarine?

[Crapshoot]

I'd say Sevilla actually, but its a toss up.

[Ajaxab]

I suppose Dark Cloud could really go out on a limb and pick one of the newly promoted sides, Sunderland, Birmingham or whoever wins the Championship playoff. I can't say I know much about them though beyond their rival clubs and the fact that Roy Keane manages the Black Cats.

[Oilers9911]

Are you suggesting he supports Celtic? ;)

Damn...backfired :)

[path12]

You can either support Manchester City or be a wanker. Your choice.

I'd rather be pummeled by an assortment of UFC champions. I've seen about five Man City games this year and they have never failed to bore me to tears. :p

I asked a Scottish buddy of mine a few years ago for a team that was not necessarily always at the top but was always a tough game for their opponents and was a scrappy sort. He suggested Bolton, and that's been my team since -- though along those same sorts of teams I've enjoyed the hell out of both Reading and Watford this year.

[Oilers9911]

I suppose Dark Cloud could really go out on a limb and pick one of the newly promoted sides, Sunderland, Birmingham or whoever wins the Championship playoff. I can't say I know much about them though beyond their rival clubs and the fact that Roy Keane manages the Black Cats.

Or if he is really adventurous maybe a conference side. Rushden and Diamonds anyone? :)

[BigDPW]

I have been a Tottenham fan for the last 6 years or so since learning about them when I first picked a team for my original foray into CM/FM/WWSM.

I wanted a team that has history of being good but never being dominant for a long stretch. I didn't want a big 4 team. I wanted a relatively underacheiving team (at the time) who was a midtable side that had the potential to improve and compete with the big 4. Tottenham met all of those criteria at the time and have since proven to be the perfect choice for me.

There is no superiority complex among the club or the supporters as they have recently been a fairly midtable side that improved to compete for UEFA Cup and Champions League spots (the top 6 spots in the EPL) over the last 2 years. There was several years of frustration during my early pulling for them as the were mired in the midtable and seemed to not be able to do anything right.

Now they have Martin Jol who has them playing a very attacking style of play and is fun to watch. For some reason I always seem to be able to find there games on FSC (live or replay later in the week) to record with my DVR. They have alot of great young talent now that will hopefully blossom to lead us on to much better things (hopefully UEFA Cup next year and CL after that?). Aaron Lennon comes to mind as the most exciting player out of the young guys. Jermain Defoe is exciting also but has not played well with Berbatov who was the big signing at forward for this year. Robbie Keane (the scoringest Irishman ever) never fails to impress. People seem to either love or hate Jermain Jenas (I usually hate him) but he can be very exciting or rip your heart out with his failure to put the ball in the net with golden chances. Ledley King is a very exciting centerback who has played very well over the last three years but seems to have been bitten by the injury bug this whole season. Dawson is his partner at the back and makes a great tandem with him but without King his lack of speed is magnified. Our #1 keeper is also the England #1 and was playing very well over the last 3 years until he gave up a blunder goal trying to clear a ball for England and has simply not looked the same since!

The clubs front office seems to consistently be making moves to bring in the best young talent to White Hart Lane starting with the best young english players. That being said they have not shown a willingness to overpay for any player like some of the bigger clubs do all the time. With our stadium being smaller (I think about 35K - compared to the 75-80K of the bigger clubs) and I would assume the merchandising sales worldwide being much smaller than the ManU's, Arsenals, Liverpools, and the Chelseas of the world we simply can't afford to make alot of mistakes by overpaying.

So at this point I think Spurs (Tottenham is the best team to pick).

-Perrenial underdog to the Big 4.
-Potential to compete with them soon but riding a very fine line and may -simply tear all of our hearts out with a few blunders over the next few years.
-Willingness to buy good players.
-Good young talent on the team.
-Playing an attacking style that is fun to watch.
-Won't be in a position soon to compete financially with the Big4 for signings due to having a much smaller stadium - though there have been long range plans going on for years to build a new stadium.

[BYU 14]

Reading is a tough, scrappy team who has definitely overachieved. As long as they stay out of European Competitions they would be a good choice if you can't bring yourself to support Spurs. If they qualify for Europe the additional games may prove taxing on their depth and make for a long Season.

[MJ4H]

Liverpool is the only correct choice, of course.

[samifan24]

I would like to pick an EPL team to root for as well. I've been following everyone's suggestions here and read up on Charlton Athletic on Wikipedia. You can only get so much information about a club off of a website. Can someone tell me about their reputation around the league?

PS- I am a diehard Cleveland Indians fan, if that helps. ;)

[BYU 14]

I would like to pick an EPL team to root for as well. I've been following everyone's suggestions here and read up on Charlton Athletic on Wikipedia. You can only get so much information about a club off of a website. Can someone tell me about their reputation around the league?

PS- I am a diehard Cleveland Indians fan, if that helps. ;)

Charlton would be a good choice for you :) They were formed in 1905. They have been a fair to middling EPL side going through relegation 2-3 times since they first cracked the first division in 1936. Current run has seen them in the EPL since 1989 I believe.....Here is a link to the Addicks home page where you can read up on them.

http://www.cafc.co.uk/default.ink

[Crapshoot]

I would like to pick an EPL team to root for as well. I've been following everyone's suggestions here and read up on Charlton Athletic on Wikipedia. You can only get so much information about a club off of a website. Can someone tell me about their reputation around the league?

PS- I am a diehard Cleveland Indians fan, if that helps. ;)

Heh - Charlton is likely to be relegated. I'd say if you're looking for a young, scrappy team - someone like Reading isn't bad, although Sunderland could be interesting as well (though they are genuine sleeping giants).

[ISiddiqui]

Oh, as for most exciting squad, bollocks to the rest of you, it's Newcastle. You never know when two of our players are going to engage in fistfights on the pitch ;).

[BYU 14]

Heh - Charlton is likely to be relegated. I'd say if you're looking for a young, scrappy team - someone like Reading isn't bad, although Sunderland could be interesting as well (though they are genuine sleeping giants).


Did you miss the part where he mentioned he was a Cleveland fan ;)

[Young Drachma]

MLS was the first top-level pro league into Columbus, although their other teams have all been in "traditional" markets.

I've seen the stadium there and was impressed with their commitment to the sport before other markets jumped in. And of course, hockey followed MLS there.

[Crapshoot]

Did you miss the part where he mentioned he was a Cleveland fan ;)

I didn't - but a non-EPL team is significantly harder to follow here in the States. :D

[BYU 14]

Oh, as for most exciting squad, bollocks to the rest of you, it's Newcastle. You never know when two of our players are going to engage in fistfights on the pitch ;).

Geez I may have to concede this, only because it's actually like a Hockey fight and not a sissy Baseball or Basketball slapfest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0f0ai5blUk&mode=related&search=

[Crapshoot]

Geez I may have to concede this, only because it's actually like a Hockey fight and not a sissy Baseball or Basketball slapfest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0f0ai5blUk&mode=related&search=

To be fair, that's a fight that many would wish both guys could lose. Lee Bowyer iis a scary, scary man.

[BYU 14]

To be fair, that's a fight that many would wish both guys could lose. Lee Bowyer iis a scary, scary man.

Yeah he is, a couple more Gems from the Bow man....Dude has serious temper issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUtY8nPIJDA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYU0ARvwygs

[ISiddiqui]

Thank god, the Magpies let him go. Talented, yes... but completely off his rocker. Dyer may get hurt a lot more, but I'll rather have him, thanks.

[samifan24]

Heh - Charlton is likely to be relegated. I'd say if you're looking for a young, scrappy team - someone like Reading isn't bad, although Sunderland could be interesting as well (though they are genuine sleeping giants).

I actually read a lot about Sunderland as well. They seem interesting but it seems like they could be a lot to drop back down next year. I gather that having Roy Keane as manager has done a lot to stabilize the club and help put them on the map (so to speak).

[cthomer5000]

I would suggest reading up on the league, playing a video game, etc... I picked Tottenham 100% arbitrarily to start an EPL career in FIFA05, played a couple seasons then decided I should watch some games. The first one that was televised was Arsenal-Tottenham and that basically clinched it. Supreme coincidence I guess.

I would personally avoid a handful of teams that are almost never on TV. You really don't want a relegation battler either, since that could get impossible to keep up with in season 2.

[cthomer5000]

I actually read a lot about Sunderland as well. They seem interesting but it seems like they could be a lot to drop back down next year. I gather that having Roy Keane as manager has done a lot to stabilize the club and help put them on the map (so to speak).

I see them as having some real appeal as well, but the last 2 times they were in the premiership they 1) set and then 2) broke their own record for worst ever finish in the league (lowest point totals). food for thought.

[Joe]

forget about the EPL and support Barca

[cthomer5000]

forget about the EPL and support Barca

Well, at the very least there are probably 4 or 5 viable La Liga options if you can get GolTv wherever you are. It's the only other league I've seen that I could definitely see getting into.

edit: actually that's a lie... if some league had full-blown coverage of the Eredivisie, i could see watching those crazy Dutchmen scorefests. :D

[MJ4H]

I'll second that La Liga is effing awesome. I really like Esapnyol.

[Dunleavy]

-first i'd watch the EPL review show (sundays on FSC re-runs during the week) and see if a team speaks to you

-decide if you want a London based team or if location doesnt matter

-decide on what style of play you want

-decide how big/rich a team you want, or how important winning is



Man Utd = Yanks, evil empire, best player in world, very English/British players but world wide brand name. in northwest

Liverpool = Dodgers, More history then anyone but haven't won league in a long while but do great in the Cup competitions, American owners, new stadium in works, Very English/Spanish. northwest

Chelsea = Redsoxs, long over shadowed history, billionaire owner and brash manager lead to new era with no shortage of money, trophies, and drama. more big changes coming? london

Arsenal = Braves, prettiest team in the league, win a lot but a lot of let downs as too. Very French, least British team. london

Tottenham = Mets, overshadowed and underacheving but a lot of talent and best of the non-big four. london

Bolton, Blackburn, Middlesbourgh, Shef Utd, Man City, Wigan, Charlton, Watford. all very english but not much to get excited about. almost all non-london

Newcastle, Everton, Portsmouth = Cubs, deciated fans but not a lot of trophies. Very english, all with a decent amount of money. Everton has future USMNT keeper. all non-london

Aston Villa = Toronto, New American owner trying to put some money into team but a ways off. midlands

Fulham, more Americans players then anyone else but not good. london

West Ham, Reading, Birmingham, Sunderland. first two are finishing first promoted season next two are re-joining next season. Hammers are underacheivers but have great young players. Birmingham and Reading are trap teams, Reading in particular b/c they play a great stlye to lure you in but are overachievers and may lose best player in offseason. Sunderland are an ugly bunch with a great hard as nails manager

[BYU 14]

West Ham, Reading, Birmingham, Sunderland. first two are finishing first promoted season next two are re-joining next season. Hammers are underacheivers but have great young players. Birmingham and Reading are trap teams, Reading in particular b/c they play a great stlye to lure you in but are overachievers and may lose best player in offseason. Sunderland are an ugly bunch with a great hard as nails manager

Solid Analysis, but West Ham has been in the EPL for a while, Reading is the only squad that has not been in the EPL.

[21C]

I've been watching/following the EPL off and on for about 30 years - back when it was the English 1st Division. I've never had a favorite that I've stuck with as I've usually followed an underdog of one sort or another.

This last season I discovered Colchester United playing in the Championship - one rung below the Premier League. What intrigued me about them was the fact that they were playing in a 6000 seat ground and averaging about 5000 a game. What surprised me was the fact that they were playing well enough to challenge the leaders and were an outside chance of promotion. They had a terrible last game against fellow outsiders Stoke where they were leading 1-0 but lost 1-3.

I just loved the fact that they were such a small club in terms of attendance but were playing well enough to contend for a place in the top flight.

[Chief Rum]

Most of the EPL squads have a couple FOFC fans at least, from what I have seen. To my knowledge, I am the lone Boro fan on FOFC (and maybe in the States).

I'm not going to tell you we will win championships. I'm not going to tell you we have boring or exciting football (we tend to the defensive, but we're really sorta in the middle both attacking and defending).

I can tell you we have been in the EPL for most of the last 40 years, and we're not going to go down this year either (despite saome grouping us in relegation battler groups above). We won the League Cup just three years ago, and got to the UEFA Cup final two years ago. Our manager was promoted to lead one of the top national sides in the world in England. We are currently managed by our former skipper defensive stalwart Gareth Southgate. We have one of the more exciting wings in the world in Stewart Downing. And we have done all this from a little pudunk industrial port on the frigin northeast coast of England. Middlesbrough only has about 100,000 people.

Despite that, our chairman dreams big and spends big. The management team goes after as big as we can think we can get. And we hate freakin' Newcastle. They're abit up the coast, and they have attitudes like the Yankees, but without the success (think Notre Dame circa 2000). We have a pleasing, vibrant red for our main color in our kits, as supposed to that boring black and white shite that the Magpies wear.

We need all the support we can get, because we are certainly a perennial underdog with our limited resources. And as if that's not enough, we can test any fan's mettle. We can get blown out at home by a bad road squad in Villa, but then go into Old Trafford and hold United to a draw (we just did all that in the past 2-3 weeks). It's maddening, but I love it. We bring in big "names" like a Viduka, Woodgate, Yakubu, and seem like we're on the cusp, so there's excitement every year. But we often fall short, making every win worth that much more.

So come join me Teeside and support the Boro. Oh and Shearer is a git. Take that, Issidiqui. :)

[MIJB#19]

Well, at the very least there are probably 4 or 5 viable La Liga options if you can get GolTv wherever you are. It's the only other league I've seen that I could definitely see getting into.

edit: actually that's a lie... if some league had full-blown coverage of the Eredivisie, i could see watching those crazy Dutchmen scorefests. :D
It's true. If you pick the right game, you'll get a guaranteed high scoring game. Although, the league is changing a bit, this season there was a record of 4 0-0 games in the same week (total of 22 0-0s in 306 games). Yeah, I know, the Italians would just laugh: "4 0-0s a lot? It's rare to have less than 4 in a given week here!" And then you look at the week 34 scores and noticed a 7-0, a couple of 5-1s and a couple of 3-2s. It's true.

[BreizhManu]

forget about the EPL and support Barca


Did someone say bandwagon ? :D

I live in barcelona but can't stand the barça anymore, you see it everywhere here.
In the liga I tend to support Valencia, in France Rennes and in the EPL Arsenal.

[AlexB]

If you like constant disappointment you can root for the team that I root for, Newcastle United ;). Always buying a few nice names in transfer market, but never the right positions (get some defenders will you?!!) and while threatening for a decent position, end up mid table.

Oh, and you can curse at "Fat Freddie" all you want.

Surely, for a Newcastle fan constant disappointment is not the major problem? The main fault has to be constant false hope and expectations? Once you realise that no matter what happens or who you sign the Geordies will never win anything, you'll never be disappointed again ;)

Glad to be of service :)

For the original poster, go with who you want to go with - if it's Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal or whoever, as long as you stick with them in the future it's fine. Picking a currently successful team is OK, changing allegiance if they falter is the big no-no.

My advice?

Pure quality of football entertainment: Arsenal, Tottenham, Reading, Man U
Likelihood of winning something now - the big 4
Sleeping giant (risky choice, possibly major rewards) - Aston Villa (Martin O'Neill factor), Tottenham, (alright then Imran :) ) Newcastle, to a lesser extent Everton, Sunderland
Plucky underdog - Reading, Bolton, Portsmouth
Battling underdogs (only for the brave) - Sheffield Utd, Wigan, Fulham, Birmingham
Owned by Americans - Liverpool, Man U, Aston Villa
Off the radar, hopefully to reclaim plucky underdog status in the next couple of years - Leicester City. Now owned by an American, currently languishing in the Championship, but should benefit from a cash injection in the summer. You know it makes sense :D

[Critch]

And I'm not really limiting myself to English clubs. I'd envision a favourite team in each of the European leagues as time goes on.

When you get round to selecting a German favorite, I'd suggest Eintracht Frankfurt purely because of this video:

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N10r3uuRaZk

[Ryan S]

You could go for Blackburn Rovers. They are one of only 4 teams to have won the Premier League title, and are often in the running for a UEFA cup spot at the end of the season.

The big guns hate playing Blackburn as they have a surprisingly good record against the top 4. Blackburn were relegated in the late 90s for a couple of seasons, but they are unlikely to be in serious danger of relagation in the next few years.

[Crapshoot]

You could go for Blackburn Rovers. They are one of only 4 teams to have won the Premier League title, and are often in the running for a UEFA cup spot at the end of the season.

The big guns hate playing Blackburn as they have a surprisingly good record against the top 4. Blackburn were relegated in the late 90s for a couple of seasons, but they are unlikely to be in serious danger of relagation in the next few years.

They also hate Blackburn because Mark Hughes seems to be a fan of the "kick em" strategy at times. :D

[Young Drachma]

This thread is great. Thanks gang. I haven't decided yet, but I'm still researching and this has me on the right track.

[Scholes]

All this talk about flowing, offensive football and no one brings up Manchester United, who have scored 20 more goals than the next highest teams in the Prem (most of your beloved Arsenal being one of them). They had some questionable moves a few seasons back, but have since gotten things together and are taking on a more traditional nationalist approach to signings. They currently have the league (and possibly world's) best player form wise in Cristiano Ronaldo, a young, dynamic exciting player with a mean streak and oodles of potential in Wayne Rooney and a good history of promoting players through the youth ranks.

There aren't many people out there who predicted them to have the success they're having this year, so you can play a mini underdog card with them this season as well. Plus, when Roy Keane takes over as manager in a few seasons it will really be fun, because along with Mr. Scholes, he is Manchester United.

Just my two cents.

[moriarty]

Here's the thing, if you really want to follow a team they need to be on TV alot in your area. Now I'm not sure where you live, but you can see if there are some local places (read bars) where fans of the team hang out, then you'll have the benefit of watching them with fellow fans which adds alot IMO. Do a search for supporters clubs in your area.

If not, then your only hopes of watching games in the US is Fox Soccer Channel or Setanta. If you want to watch your team every week, you probably need to stick with the big 4 (Liverpool, Chelsea, Man U ... not sure about Arsenal have their own TV shows if you miss the game), but almost always they are on live TV as they are big teams.

If you're ok with only being able to see your team play once every few weeks, then you're probably ok with picking a smaller team. You might want to look for a team that is at least qualified for the CL (Big 4) or Uefa Cup to peak your interest next year.

Personally, I'm a Liverpool fan so I advise you to start there. Having said that, they can be god awful boring at times. I can't with any good faith recommend Man U (old yankees) or Chelsea (new Yankees in terms of buying all the best players) but I can appreciate Arsenal and their fans. Plus they have a lot of young talent to watch grow.

If you want to follow US players, Fulham seems to have the most (if they don't get relegated), Man City has Demarcus Beasley (for now at least) and a few other clubs have one American.

[moriarty]

There aren't many people out there who predicted them to have the success they're having this year, so you can play a mini underdog card with them this season as well.

You can call Man U many things (lord knows I have) but underdog is really a stretch. The pundits may have picked Chelsea as the favorites, but being widely recognized as a legit title contender is hardly an underdog. (I will say they have played better than I thought they would this year though).

[ISiddiqui]

All this talk about flowing, offensive football and no one brings up Manchester United, who have scored 20 more goals than the next highest teams in the Prem (most of your beloved Arsenal being one of them). They had some questionable moves a few seasons back, but have since gotten things together and are taking on a more traditional nationalist approach to signings. They currently have the league (and possibly world's) best player form wise in Cristiano Ronaldo, a young, dynamic exciting player with a mean streak and oodles of potential in Wayne Rooney and a good history of promoting players through the youth ranks.

There aren't many people out there who predicted them to have the success they're having this year, so you can play a mini underdog card with them this season as well. Plus, when Roy Keane takes over as manager in a few seasons it will really be fun, because along with Mr. Scholes, he is Manchester United.

Just my two cents.

But ManU is the ultimate bandwagon team ;). People who don't follow soccer know them (while they may look at you funny if you mention Chelsea, Arsenal, or Liverpool). They are, as stated above, the Yankees.

That is why no one has mentioned them. Kind of similar to why few to none have said root for Chelsea.

[Scholes]

By the way, Liverpool supporters, you can't really take yourselves out of the big-spender Yankee comparisons, Liverpool have shelled out close to 80 million pounds in the last few seasons under Benitez.

[ISiddiqui]

If you want to follow US players, Fulham seems to have the most (if they don't get relegated), Man City has Demarcus Beasley (for now at least) and a few other clubs have one American.

Reading has Convey and Hahneman. Though Convey, after his injury, seemed to lose his starting position.

[flere-imsaho]

Will Keane really manage Man U in the future? I thought his bust-up with Ferguson more-or-less put the kibosh on that (given the immense amount of influence Sir Alex has).

[moriarty]

By the way, Liverpool supporters, you can't really take yourselves out of the big-spender Yankee comparisons, Liverpool have shelled out close to 80 million pounds in the last few seasons under Benitez.

Well, compared to Chelski ... we've spent a pittance for our CL Final. Chelski has spent a fortune this year for a League Cup. :) We also haven't spend $30MM or whatever on a player like say Carrick and we had to actually sell some players to raise money. But compared to the rest of the league, very true. We'll see what happens with the new owners.

[Scholes]

You can call Man U many things (lord knows I have) but underdog is really a stretch. The pundits may have picked Chelsea as the favorites, but being widely recognized as a legit title contender is hardly an underdog. (I will say they have played better than I thought they would this year though).

I said mini underdog and you can argue that with the recent successes of Chelsea [premiership titles], Arsenal [champ league final, prem titles] and Liverpool [champs league success], they haven't tasted the same amount of trophies recently. Obviously Manchester United will never be a 'real' underdog any time in the forseeable future, but I always like to have an 'us vs them' mentality.

[Scholes]

Well, compared to Chelski ... we've spent a pittance for our CL Final. Chelski has spent a fortune this year for a League Cup. :) We also haven't spend $30MM or whatever on a player like say Carrick and we had to actually sell some players to raise money. But compared to the rest of the league, very true. We'll see what happens with the new owners.

Players bought by Rafa Benitez at Liverpool - total spending = £81,596,000

Players sold by Rafa Benitez at Liverpool - total revenue = £38,475,000

A net outlay of £43m, and their fans are still whining about being unable to keep up with the other big guns.

[moriarty]

You're kidding right? You spent 18.6 (pounds) on Carrick, 27 on Rooney and 28.1 on feakin Juan Verion. Not to mention what you were willing to spend on Hargreaves had he been available. Show me anyone on the Liverpool team that cost near that amount. I don't really need to show Chelsea numbers do I? I think SWP and Shev alone (as bench players) could over that.

Rafa has spent (rather frugally in comparison) to basically completely rebuild a team that was rather weak after the Hollier years.

[Fighter of Foo]

Been a Villa fan since 1997 when I stayed outside Birmingham for a few weeks.

Probably the best team to pick for an all around experience. In the last 10 years there's been nearly every experience including the last few seasons of supporting a completely and utterly hopeless team and starting every season hoping not to get relegated.

Since Lerner bought the team this season, things are definitely looking up. Martin O'neill is the most optimistic, positive manager in the league and he's perfect for helping along the second best group of young players in the league (behind Arsenal).

I really, really think Villa and Tottenham have the best chance of being able to challenge the top teams in the league consistently. Villa's a season or two behind in the growth cycle and the bandwagon is pretty empty.

Lastly, get goltv and start watching La Liga!!!! It's much better top to bottom and there's all sorts of idiosyncrasies about Spain that make the weekly games much more interesting if you don't have a real rooting interest in any particular team.

[moriarty]

.
Edited to add: Plus, all that money that Rafa has spent was spent to completely overhaul the team. Not add a piece here and there, but (other than defense) change the team completely. Reina, Kewell, Gonzalez, Aurelio, Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano, Pennant, Morientes, Cisse, Kuyt, Bellamy, Crouch. And I'm sure I'm missing some in there as well.

^^ I think that's the key point. Granted it was the clubs's own doing, but they had to buy bodies and couldn't go after names (plus they weren't able guys like VN and Beckham, and the one value player we had we got fleeced on (owen) . I think that will change now.

Anyways, back on topic: The teams I would recommend following in order are:
1. Liverpool (duh)
2. Arsenal
3. Newcastle (bad few years, but great following and solid team)
4. Tottenham (bad year, but fun/team)
5. Man City (if they keep Bease, plus I have a soft spot for them from FM2005)
6. Bolton - good team, outside the big 4. But not sure where they are going with Sammy Lee in charge, even though I like Sammy.

[Fighter of Foo]

Benitez wanted/needed to remake his team, hence the need to buy more cheaper players instead of fewer expensive ones like United to complement a more established team.

ManU has spent more in net obviously, but it's not that big a difference.

I also seem to recall several of Liverpool's transfers going undisclosed, most recently Mascherano, and I'm not sure whether that's factored in.


Apologies for the unbiased view. Continue pissing.

[moriarty]

Benitez wanted/needed to remake his team, hence the need to buy more cheaper players instead of fewer expensive ones like United to complement a more established team.

ManU has spent more in net obviously, but it's not that big a difference.

I also seem to recall several of Liverpool's transfers going undisclosed, most recently Mascherano, and I'm not sure whether that's factored in.
.

I would say he had to remake the team. Other than Gerrard, Carragher and Owen there wasn't much there. But I get your point.

Mascherano btw is on loan (he hasn't been bought by the team yet). I don't think there are any other major undisclosed ones, but I could be wrong.

[moriarty]

I do like Martin O'neil and think he's a good coach for that team. Should be interesting to see if Lerner ponies up some money so he can get a few mores quality signings.

[SunDevil]

Actually,

I am still trying to decide. It is between Everton and Aston Villa. I plan on reading more about their history and maybe catch a game or two or something before I decide. I tell you baseball was much easier to decide then this, I was born in Boston, so I did not really have a choice. :D

[flere-imsaho]

Wow, I'm out of it: I had no idea O'Neill was currently manager of Villa. He's a quality manager (almost as good as me in FM2007! ), and I'd expect them to go from strength-to-strength in the near future.

[Toddzilla]

If only Peterhead was on TV more....

[Passacaglia]

I'll pimp Newcastle in the EPL and Atletico Madrid in La Liga.

[Fighter of Foo]

I'll pimp Newcastle in the EPL and Atletico Madrid in La Liga.

That's really mean.

[Passacaglia]

That's really mean.

It's not that bad. Sure, Newcastle is headed in the wrong direction, but Atletico Madrid is up-and-coming. Probably looking at UEFA Cup this year, Champions League in the future. Torres looks committed to staying on, as well.

[Neuqua]

Also going to throw my Newcastle hat into the rink. The fan following they have is top notch, and in my opinion they have the best kits in the EPL. :)

[Joe]

Did someone say bandwagon ? :D



actually not

[Crapshoot]

It's not that bad. Sure, Newcastle is headed in the wrong direction, but Atletico Madrid is up-and-coming. Probably looking at UEFA Cup this year, Champions League in the future. Torres looks committed to staying on, as well.

Heh - Athletico has been up-and-coming for years - they have a self-destructive talent that matches Newcastle, though unlike the Geordies, they have actually won something (La Liga in 1992). Raul was a youth player at Athletico until he was cut, and went to Real instead - to become Spain's leading goal scorer. :D

[Critch]

Heh - Athletico has been up-and-coming for years - they have a self-destructive talent that matches Newcastle, though unlike the Geordies, they have actually won something (La Liga in 1992). Raul was a youth player at Athletico until he was cut, and went to Real instead - to become Spain's leading goal scorer. :D

Atletico's main self-destructive talent (Club President Jesus Gil) died a couple of years ago, so they don't have a main man who falls out with and fires coaches every few months. They seem to be a bit steadier now.

Newcastle United on the other hand still stumble along. Maybe this year they'll get rid of Roeder and finally find a manager who can sort them out? Maybe even buy some proper defenders?

[Critch]

Who has Liverpool shelled out for recently? Kuyt? Even with him, I have a feeling they wanted other players (Villa, Torres) who we couldn't afford. To say that Liverpool has the spending power of ManU is laughable.

Liverpool have spent 55mil on players since they last won the Champions League two years ago. Small beans compared with Chelsea, but more than Man Utd have spent in the last two years.

(55.2 mil = Arbeloa (2.6), Agger (5.8), Gonzalez (4.5), Crouch (7), Pennant (6.7), Bellamy (6.0), Kuyt (9.0), Sissoko (5.6), Reina (6.0), Paletta (2.0))

[Crapshoot]

Liverpool have spent 55mil on players since they last won the Champions League two years ago. Small beans compared with Chelsea, but more than Man Utd have spent in the last two years.

(55.2 mil = Arbeloa (2.6), Agger (5.8), Gonzalez (4.5), Crouch (7), Pennant (6.7), Bellamy (6.0), Kuyt (9.0), Sissoko (5.6), Reina (6.0), Paletta (2.0))

Yeah, but look at net figures - they've sold Baros (6.5 mil), Traore (1.5), Kirkland (undisclosed - at least 2/2.5 IMO), Hamman (500K), Josemi (who turned into Kronkamp, who was sold to PSV for at least 1M), and Cisse will probably be sold in the summer (he's been on loan).

Net, they've spent about 45 million - Man U have spent that much on Carrick, Evra, Vidic, Kuzcak, and spent 40 million on Saha and Rooney the year before (though they have sold Van). Liverpool aren't small market, but they're no 3, or more likely, no 4 (Tottenham may have outspent them in the period).

[ISiddiqui]

Woot... more Magpie fans :). Instead of the Cubs, I equate the club we back as more like the Red Sox before 2004. Some years getting close enough to taste the promise land before failing badly.

And as the Red Sox had one of the all time greats, Williams, and could never give him a championship, Newcastle had the same with Shearer

[Crapshoot]

Woot... more Magpie fans :). Instead of the Cubs, I equate the club we back as more like the Red Sox before 2004. Some years getting close enough to taste the promise land before failing badly.

And as the Red Sox had one of the all time greats, Williams, and could never give him a championship, Newcastle had the same with Shearer

I think someone once said that Shearer's decision to go to Newcastle instead of Man U may have cost him titles, but it made him a legend before he scored a goal.

[moriarty]

Also going to throw my Newcastle hat into the rink. The fan following they have is top notch, and in my opinion they have the best kits in the EPL. :)

I have to admit, I'm quite fond of the American referee / American convict look.

[Critch]

Net, they've spent about 45 million - Man U have spent that much on Carrick, Evra, Vidic, Kuzcak, and spent 40 million on Saha and Rooney the year before (though they have sold Van). Liverpool aren't small market, but they're no 3, or more likely, no 4 (Tottenham may have outspent them in the period).

Carrick, Evra and Vidic cost 32mil, Kuzcak is on loan as part of a swap deal, so it's still a good deal less than Liverpool have spent. Going back to the year before Saha (12.8mil) and Rooney (20mil) were big money signings for Man United, but Liverpool spent 30mil+ (Alonso(10.5), Garcia(6), Cisse(14!)) that year too so the difference isnt great.

Liverpool spend much the same amount as Man Utd, they just don't make as many huge money deals. Lots of 6mil pound role players though where Man Utd rely on their own products.

I doubt Spurs even come close to Liverpool's spending net. Most of the money they spent last season came from Carrick. (edited that, it wasn't a net profit, the site I looked at had an incomplete list of transfers.)

[moriarty]

Carrick, Evra and Vidic cost 32mil, Kuzcak is on loan as part of a swap deal, so it's still a good deal less than Liverpool have spent. Going back to the year before Saha (12.8mil) and Rooney (20mil) were big money signings for Man United, but Liverpool spent 30mil+ (Alonso(10.5), Garcia(6), Cisse(14!)) that year too so the difference isnt great.

Liverpool spend much the same amount as Man Utd, they just don't make as many huge money deals. Lots of 6mil pound role players though where Man Utd rely on their own products.

I doubt Spurs even come close to Liverpool's spending net. Most of the money they spent last season came from Carrick. (edited that, it wasn't a net profit, the site I looked at had an incomplete list of transfers.)

Yeah, I think Tottenham spent about 30MM lbs in 2006/2007, but that was an aberration (and at least partially funded by Carrick). They do tend to open their purse strings, but i doubt they're anywhere near the Big 4. I would suspect Newcastle is probably the 5th team in transfer fees over the past 5 years, but I have no data to back that up.

[Oilers9911]

All this talk about flowing, offensive football and no one brings up Manchester United, who have scored 20 more goals than the next highest teams in the Prem (most of your beloved Arsenal being one of them). They had some questionable moves a few seasons back, but have since gotten things together and are taking on a more traditional nationalist approach to signings. They currently have the league (and possibly world's) best player form wise in Cristiano Ronaldo, a young, dynamic exciting player with a mean streak and oodles of potential in Wayne Rooney and a good history of promoting players through the youth ranks.

There aren't many people out there who predicted them to have the success they're having this year, so you can play a mini underdog card with them this season as well. Plus, when Roy Keane takes over as manager in a few seasons it will really be fun, because along with Mr. Scholes, he is Manchester United.

Just my two cents.

Yes Man U plays very stylish offensive football and are an attractive side to watch, no doubt about it. The thing about Man U however is, and how do I put this.....they are EVIL! (Although I actually find myself hoping they beat Chelsea for the title this year because Jose Moaning-Ho is just a twat.

[Fighter of Foo]

Atletico's main self-destructive talent (Club President Jesus Gil) died a couple of years ago, so they don't have a main man who falls out with and fires coaches every few months. They seem to be a bit steadier now.

Newcastle United on the other hand still stumble along. Maybe this year they'll get rid of Roeder and finally find a manager who can sort them out? Maybe even buy some proper defenders?

http://www.football365.com/spanish_thing/0,17033,9405_2098443,00.html




The reaction of the world's media to Boris Yeltsin's death mirrors the way that poor old Atletico Madrid are currently being treated by the Spanish sports papers. The former Russian president could have been remembered for many deeds - helping to bring democracy to the former Soviet Union; that legendary climb onto a tank; flogging the family silver to oligarchs to create the Abramovic-era Chelsea.

Instead, Yeltsin will forever be known for the day when the plastered president got up on a stage and pretended to conduct a brass band. All very undignified... rather like Atletico's desperate scramble for any kind of European passport.

This week, Atletico celebrated birthday number one hundred and four. But despite the odd flash of success in that time, the club will eternally be known for its astonishing ability to really cock things up. This weekend, the 0-0 draw against relegation threatened Real Betis was another footballing disaster. As El Mundo pointed out, 'You can't be a serious contender for the Champions League if you only pick up four points at home from Levante, Real Sociedad and Betis.'

But this is precisely what has happened, as Atletico continue to blow their best chance in years of qualifying for the Champions League - a battle that is either the most open for some time, or the poorest, depending on which side your footballing bread is buttered.

"That's Atleti," shrugged manager, Javier Aguirre, after the game, in response to the disappointing draw which saw their hopes of better days disappear even further round the Primera's u-bend.

[Critch]

Heh, well at least they're blowing their chances at the Champions League now and not getting relegated to the second division like they did in Gil's days.

[PraetorianX]

Cmon - Arsenal have this, hands down. In full flow, there is no better team to watch.

Arsenal are pretty to watch, sure...but they're all arrogant wankers, so that just ruins everything. Plus I can't stand Wenger.

Tottenham hands down. The most exciting team in the EPL, they are like the Soccer version of Coryell's Chargers. You can usually count on their games being back and forth and can count on spectacular plays by both sides.

Berbatov and Keane are both solid strikers and Aaron Lennon is possibly the most exciting player in the EPL, he isn't great on Defense and can be streaky, but when he is on, give him the ball in open space and it is usually magical......and just barely turned 20. Chimbonda is also arguably one of the more offensive Defenders in the EPL and a great Ball handler.

Spurs are a great team, usually always play good attacking football (cuz we Spurs fans demand it and get whiney when we play boring Chelsea/Liverpool type football) and there is always plenty of drama. Also, Spurs are one of the wealthiest clubs in the world, proven by consistently being in the top 15 wealthiest clubs list...despite not having regular European football like all the others on said list. (Of course, that is changing)

And Spurs are on the up, if ANY team is going to break into the top four...Spurs are the ones to do it.

Really, this one quote by the legendary Sir Bill Nicholson sums up 'The Spurs Way':

'It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. And we of Spurs have set our sights very high, so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory,'



The clubs front office seems to consistently be making moves to bring in the best young talent to White Hart Lane starting with the best young english players. That being said they have not shown a willingness to overpay for any player like some of the bigger clubs do all the time. With our stadium being smaller (I think about 35K - compared to the 75-80K of the bigger clubs) and I would assume the merchandising sales worldwide being much smaller than the ManU's, Arsenals, Liverpools, and the Chelseas of the world we simply can't afford to make alot of mistakes by overpaying.

Only United have a stadium that big, l'Arse is what, 60k?, Liverpool currently only 45k...though they're moving to a bit bigger one sometime I believe...Chelsea only 42k. Of course Newcastle have 52k...but they're a joke so it's not a worry. ;) :)

Also, Levy (Spurs Chairman) is apparently working on plans to expand White Hart Lane to 50k+, and possibly spending a year or two at Wembly (or someplace...Wembly seems to be their current choice) while doing the rebuilding.

I expect by this time next year we'll have some sort of plan for the redevelopment of WHL (or moving, if it comes to that...though I doubt we'd leave North London)

BTW, since their are several Spurs fans...any of you go to COYS? It's the best of the Spurs forums, in my opinion, they have some good 'ITK' types who pass on information and are actually exceedingly reliable. PM me if you want the addy.

[BYU 14]

Really, this one quote by the legendary Sir Bill Nicholson sums up 'The Spurs Way':

'It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. And we of Spurs have set our sights very high, so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory,'


Hand me a Kleenex please!!

[samifan24]

Is it just me or are many of the "big" EPL clubs' websites very poorly designed? I was just visiting Everton's site and it took me a good five minutes to find their current roster and player bios. I found that many of the teams' sites also want you to register to view the roster, etc. This amazes me. Is this the norm outside of the US? One club website I did like was Manchester City. The site was well organized and I was able to read up on the club history and its players in a clean, easy to navigate site.

[SunDevil]

Is it just me or are many of the "big" EPL clubs' websites very poorly designed? I was just visiting Everton's site and it took me a good five minutes to find their current roster and player bios. I found that many of the teams' sites also want you to register to view the roster, etc. This amazes me. Is this the norm outside of the US? One club website I did like was Manchester City. The site was well organized and I was able to read up on the club history and its players in a clean, easy to navigate site.

Remember these are the same people who drive on the wrong side of the road. :D

[cthomer5000]

Is it just me or are many of the "big" EPL clubs' websites very poorly designed? I was just visiting Everton's site and it took me a good five minutes to find their current roster and player bios. I found that many of the teams' sites also want you to register to view the roster, etc. This amazes me. Is this the norm outside of the US? One club website I did like was Manchester City. The site was well organized and I was able to read up on the club history and its players in a clean, easy to navigate site.

Haven't really noticed... i honestly use Wikipedia for all that stuff.

[BYU 14]

I have thought the same thing about their websites, some of them are like high School projects, hard to browse and gaudy...Hate to bash on my homeland but some of those teams do need to upgrade their IT departments.

[MJ4H]

I have always noticed a really bad tendency to require paid membership to do just about anything on those websites.

[Critch]

Is it just me or are many of the "big" EPL clubs' websites very poorly designed? I was just visiting Everton's site and it took me a good five minutes to find their current roster and player bios. I found that many of the teams' sites also want you to register to view the roster, etc.

One company snapped up a lot of the teams websites as a moneymaking venture. Try to force you to sign up with a valid email address, then try to get you to pay a monthly fee to get interviews and radio commentary.

You're generally better off with soccernet, the BBC website, fan-run websites, or the local evening newspaper to get the good stuff.

[cthomer5000]

good time to shout out my favorite podcasts:

1. BBC 606 (Football Phone-In)
Absolutely amazing call-in show from the UK, Saturday, Sunday, and a midweek show (though often more during European weeks). Seriously, this is an absolute must-listen.
itunes link: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...t?id=129584472 (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=129584472)

2. The Game With Danny Kelly
The best weekly podcast I've heard. Consistenly insightful and funny with a terrific group of co-hosts.
itunes link: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...t?id=191105605 (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=191105605)

3. The Beautiful Game
A weekly show, and far and away the best "amateur" show I've heard. They dig up a lot of great quotes and stats that are overlooked by mainstream press and have great features. Really like this show.
itunes link: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...t?id=123497012 (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=123497012)

4. Football Weekly on Guardian Unlimited
Another weekly from the UK, very good, and nice insight on Spain usually.
itunes link: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...t?id=188674007 (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=188674007)

5. ESPNsoccernet Extra
I found this one a little flat on my first few listens, but I've grown to like it more as the weeks roll on. This one comes out twice a week, essentially a recap and preview show, usually Monday and Thursday.
itunes link: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...t?id=184467391 (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=184467391)

[moriarty]

Is it just me or are many of the "big" EPL clubs' websites very poorly designed? I was just visiting Everton's site and it took me a good five minutes to find their current roster and player bios. I found that many of the teams' sites also want you to register to view the roster, etc. This amazes me. Is this the norm outside of the US? One club website I did like was Manchester City. The site was well organized and I was able to read up on the club history and its players in a clean, easy to navigate site.

Fully agree. And while we're ranting, the Liverpool club website store is the worst online retail experience I've ever seen. They must lose millions in retail sales every year. As soon as the new kits come out, the online store is sold out until at least April/May. Almost all their products show up as being sold out throughout the year. And if you do actually make the mistake of ordering, there's no visibility/tracking of your order. Zip. You just sit and pray that your package will one day show up (which has taken months in a few cases).

[Young Drachma]

I'm watching the Arsenal v. Fulham game on FSN right now. And I've realized that I hate Arsenal. I mean, it's easy to hate the big boys. But watching a game like this, really makes me hate them pretty easily.

And I really liked Clint Dempsey during the World Cup, but I'd hate to root for a team simply because there are Americans on it. So, we'll see. But there isn't any doubt that I'll never root for Arsenal. Meh.

[eiskrap]

I'm watching the Arsenal v. Fulham game on FSN right now. And I've realized that I hate Arsenal. I mean, it's easy to hate the big boys. But watching a game like this, really makes me hate them pretty easily.

And I really liked Clint Dempsey during the World Cup, but I'd hate to root for a team simply because there are Americans on it. So, we'll see. But there isn't any doubt that I'll never root for Arsenal. Meh.

You sound like a Tottenham fan without knowing it...

[cthomer5000]

You sound like a Tottenham fan without knowing it...

yes... yes... give into your hate. embrace Spurs, baby!

just watch Berbatov go... you can't deny this:

<object height="350" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sQAueuJOZjI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"></object>

[moriarty]

I'm watching the Arsenal v. Fulham game on FSN right now. And I've realized that I hate Arsenal. I mean, it's easy to hate the big boys. But watching a game like this, really makes me hate them pretty easily.

And I really liked Clint Dempsey during the World Cup, but I'd hate to root for a team simply because there are Americans on it. So, we'll see. But there isn't any doubt that I'll never root for Arsenal. Meh.

Not to discourage your selection, but what don't you like about Arsenal? Their style of play, their arrogance, their shirt color ... (it'll help us recommend another team).

[Young Drachma]

Not to discourage your selection, but what don't you like about Arsenal? Their style of play, their arrogance, their shirt color ... (it'll help us recommend another team).

They seemed arrogant. And I think it was just that Yankees-esque style of "yes, we're better than you. Our players are better and we're going to win eventually. So there isn't a point in trying to root against us. Assimilate now and save yourself."

At least, that's the feeling I got from watching them. As if it wasn't even a fair fight, on some level.

[moriarty]

They seemed arrogant. And I think it was just that Yankees-esque style of "yes, we're better than you. Our players are better and we're going to win eventually. So there isn't a point in trying to root against us. Assimilate now and save yourself."

At least, that's the feeling I got from watching them. As if it wasn't even a fair fight, on some level.

Ok, so we've pretty much ruled out the Big 4 then ... (Chelsea and Arsenal for sure anyways). Tottenham's still a good choice. Don't get too attached to Fulhham (in case they get relegated).

If you're really looking for the underdogs with a good chance of overachieving, and chance of being an up and comer, then maybe Villa is your best bet. They have an American owner who is committed to buying players, a good coach, and a good young side who work hard and aren't terribly arrogant.

[BYU 14]

yes... yes... give into your hate. embrace Spurs, baby!

just watch Berbatov go... you can't deny this:

<OBJECT height=350 width=425>
&nbsp
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sQAueuJOZjI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"></OBJECT>

Come to the light....you can do it!!

[BYU 14]

you still need convincing that Spurs are the Team....Enjoy some Aaron Lennon magic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40rFfdgm_B4&mode=related&search=

[samifan24]

But if someone picks Tottenham then they'll be supporting the same team as Bill Simmons. Do you really want to do that?

[SunDevil]

Simmons has already admitted that he never really got started because he got distracted by March Madness. So technically he never got into EPL, nor really follows a team.

[cthomer5000]

Simmons has already admitted that he never really got started because he got distracted by March Madness. So technically he never got into EPL, nor really follows a team.

what a fag. I hate that guy.

[MrBug708]

Take Crystal Palace! :) Sure they aren't in the EPL, but they'll be there after next year!

[PraetorianX]

You sound like a Tottenham fan without knowing it...

Exactly what I was thinking!


C'mon over to the REAL North London team DC, and we may bash the Woolwich Wanderers together, :)

what a fag. I hate that guy.

Tell me about it. I was quite disappointed when I saw he was becoming a 'Spurs Fan'...hate the guy.

[Young Drachma]

I watched Aston Villa v. Sheffield United today or at least, a good part of it before the cable started acting weird.

That Aston Villa club looks pretty sharp with a lot of young players. But that Sheffield team was pretty bad and had a hard time getting it together, so suffice to say it wasn't really a fair fight.

[SirFozzie]

Fulham are 99% up! What a huge game, beating the 'Pool

[Crapshoot]

Fulham are 99% up! What a huge game, beating the 'Pool

Beating Liverpool's B team, but yeah.

I'm worried that we will end up in 4th - I'm now in the position of rooting for Chelsea tomorrow.

[Critch]

Or beating Liverpool reserves anyway. You'd have to feel sorry for Sheff Utd or Wigan if they go down, the FA giving West Ham a slap on the wrist and Fulham benefiting from Liverpool resting virtually their full team .

[Young Drachma]

Watching Everton v. Portsmouth at the moment. What's funny is, I had a brief second of "oh gee, those are cool kits" and then regained my composure, refusing to choose a side based on "well, they had the best looking uniforms."

[BigDPW]

You really do sound like someone that will fit in perfect as a Spurs fan! Being a Spurs fan is about supporting the team in their fight against the big 4 and hating Arsenal and Chelsea due to their arrogance!!!

[Dunleavy]

You really do sound like someone that will fit in perfect as a Spurs fan! Being a Spurs fan is about supporting the team in their fight against the big 4 and hating Arsenal and Chelsea due to their arrogance!!!

don't be a Spurs fan, you don't want to do that, it's a fight you'll never win, thats why Spurs fan are so bitter about he big four

[samifan24]

What about Middlesbrough and Portsmouth? I haven't heard much about either team. Why is that?

[PraetorianX]

don't be a Spurs fan, you don't want to do that, it's a fight you'll never win, thats why Spurs fan are so bitter about he big four

Bitter? No no, not at all. We naturally hate Arsenal and Chelsea...and everybody hates United (though perhaps less so this year since they're beating Chelsea...lesser of two evils)...and the Scousers...well, they're them, aren't they?

Of course, becoming a Spurs fan does have it's disadvantages. Like yearly heartbreak one way or another. *sigh*

What about Middlesbrough and Portsmouth? I haven't heard much about either team. Why is that?

Because they're perennial midtable teams and nothing better?

[Crapshoot]

I will say, Arsenal and Spurs are two of the teams I admire, even as a Liverpool fan. Unlike say, Chelsea.

[Chief Rum]

What about Middlesbrough and Portsmouth? I haven't heard much about either team. Why is that?

Sad, no one reads my novels. :(

Most of the EPL squads have a couple FOFC fans at least, from what I have seen. To my knowledge, I am the lone Boro fan on FOFC (and maybe in the States).

I'm not going to tell you we will win championships. I'm not going to tell you we have boring or exciting football (we tend to the defensive, but we're really sorta in the middle both attacking and defending).

I can tell you we have been in the EPL for most of the last 40 years, and we're not going to go down this year either (despite saome grouping us in relegation battler groups above). We won the League Cup just three years ago, and got to the UEFA Cup final two years ago. Our manager was promoted to lead one of the top national sides in the world in England. We are currently managed by our former skipper defensive stalwart Gareth Southgate. We have one of the more exciting wings in the world in Stewart Downing. And we have done all this from a little pudunk industrial port on the frigin northeast coast of England. Middlesbrough only has about 100,000 people.

Despite that, our chairman dreams big and spends big. The management team goes after as big as we can think we can get. And we hate freakin' Newcastle. They're abit up the coast, and they have attitudes like the Yankees, but without the success (think Notre Dame circa 2000). We have a pleasing, vibrant red for our main color in our kits, as supposed to that boring black and white shite that the Magpies wear.

We need all the support we can get, because we are certainly a perennial underdog with our limited resources. And as if that's not enough, we can test any fan's mettle. We can get blown out at home by a bad road squad in Villa, but then go into Old Trafford and hold United to a draw (we just did all that in the past 2-3 weeks). It's maddening, but I love it. We bring in big "names" like a Viduka, Woodgate, Yakubu, and seem like we're on the cusp, so there's excitement every year. But we often fall short, making every win worth that much more.

So come join me Teeside and support the Boro. Oh and Shearer is a git. Take that, Issidiqui. :)

And all the bloomin' Newcastle fans here. Makes me sick.

I think Boro and Portsmouth don't get mentioned much because we're both in "corners" of the country, far away from any of the real population centers like London, Pool, Manchester, Birmingham, etc.

Sure, the Toon are up here, but if you want my opinion there, read my quote above.

[Young Drachma]

Oh fear not. I surely read it. Boro are among my finalists. :)

I just like their story, I like their chants and sure, they don't win. But if I wanted to pick an instant winner, I'd not bother with this exercise at all, since that'd be relatively easy to do.

We shall see though...

[samifan24]

Sad, no one reads my novels. :(

Actually I skimmed your post when you first wrote it but I didn't put Middlesborough with "Boro" and didn't get to the part where you spell out the name of the team. ;-)

[samifan24]

Oh fear not. I surely read it. Boro are among my finalists. :)

Care to share your thoughts on your finalists?

[Young Drachma]

I'm not certain yet. I have a few ideas, but..I'm still trying to narrow it down.

[Neuqua]

Chief Rum will no longer be receiving a Christmas card from me.

[-apoc-]

Bitter? No no, not at all. We naturally hate Arsenal and Chelsea...and everybody hates United (though perhaps less so this year since they're beating Chelsea...lesser of two evils)...and the Scousers...well, they're them, aren't they?

Of course, becoming a Spurs fan does have it's disadvantages. Like yearly heartbreak one way or another. *sigh*


Too bad this thread wasn't up around April 21st so I could have wished all you spudz supporters a happy St. Totteringhams day. I know how much you love that holiday :)

[Young Drachma]

Watching Cagliari v. Udinese and I must say, Italian kits sure do look better than British ones. Seems like all of the EPL kits look exactly the same.

Not that it matters..just saying.

[Oilers9911]

Is it Palermo in Italy that have those lovely pink kits? Wow, how those Italian players must love wearing those.

[PraetorianX]

Too bad this thread wasn't up around April 21st so I could have wished all you spudz supporters a happy St. Totteringhams day. I know how much you love that holiday :)

So, how's it feel not winning anything...again? Must really suck, seeing Arsenal decline like this...knowing that in a few short years you'll be fighting for a spot in the Wafer Cup. I almost feel sorry...almost.

[-apoc-]

So, how's it feel not winning anything...again? Must really suck, seeing Arsenal decline like this...knowing that in a few short years you'll be fighting for a spot in the Wafer Cup. I almost feel sorry...almost.

Its a feeling I am sure you know all too well being the 4th best team in London behind Arsenal, Chelsea, and the Arsenal reserves :)

All jibbing aside considering the Arsenal are by far the smallest of the Big 4 I dont see it as much of a decline at all just a natural fluctuation they have been playing over their heads the last couple of years imo. But I do think Ars will get much better in the coming years so many of our youngsters have been blooded this season just lacking the killer instinct that comes with their imaturity.

I will say it is an exciting time to be a Spurs fan though cause you guys seem to only be missing a few players that could really make your team a force to be reckoned with. Of course Man U will probably make you an offer thats too good to turn down for Lennon or Huddlestone and then you guys get a nice check but another season screwed of new guys trying to gel.

[cthomer5000]

Even as a Tottenham fan, i'll also suggest you strongly consider Everton. A nice solid, non-big-4 team.

[samifan24]

Has anyone here tried ESPN's EPL fantasy game? I'd be interested in playing for the 07/08 campaign as I think it would help me get into it a bit more. Anyone up for a FOFC league?

[samifan24]

dola- Does anyone have experience with Setanta Broadband (http://play.www.setanta.servecast.net/setanta/us/default.aspx?aff=1)? I'd never heard of the channel until it was mentioned here. I discovered that it is only available as part of satellite packages but it looks like the broadband might be a good option for those of us without a satellite dish package. Anyone ever try it?

[PraetorianX]

Its a feeling I am sure you know all too well being the 4th best team in London behind Arsenal, Chelsea, and the Arsenal reserves :)

All jibbing aside considering the Arsenal are by far the smallest of the Big 4 I dont see it as much of a decline at all just a natural fluctuation they have been playing over their heads the last couple of years imo. But I do think Ars will get much better in the coming years so many of our youngsters have been blooded this season just lacking the killer instinct that comes with their imaturity.

I will say it is an exciting time to be a Spurs fan though cause you guys seem to only be missing a few players that could really make your team a force to be reckoned with. Of course Man U will probably make you an offer thats too good to turn down for Lennon or Huddlestone and then you guys get a nice check but another season screwed of new guys trying to gel.

We all know Chelsea are the smallest of the 'Big Four'...they just happen to have the Russian giving them a lot of money. Once he leaves normal service will resume.

As for United buying our players...I think you underestimate our financial strength. We're easily one of the wealthiest clubs in Europe, always in the top 15 according to Forbes and others...the only one on the list without regular European football, in fact. Mr. Levy and ENIC have done an excellent job so far at Spurs and we're in a position where we can turn down a large bid for players like Lennon or Berbatov or King (as if anybody would buy him now, with all his injuries). Carrick was sold because we got a huge offer and we felt we could get an affordable replacement (Zokora).

Not to mention, we have one of Wenger's top men working for us now, Damien Comolli. And he's been doing a wonderful job so far and from what I've heard about our summer signings that we're closing in on, it's gonna be a good summer. :)


But anyway, about l'Arse, what happens when Wenger leaves? He can't stay there forever afterall?

[-apoc-]

I am not that worried aboud Wenger leaving actually. He is possibly the best Manager in the World at spotting and developing talent and the economics of developing a team. However he is seriously lacking in other areas such as motivating players and in game tactical changes.

He has built us a solid financial and scouting base and whoever replaces him will surely be much better tactically and will be much better off financially than he is to make top signings when needed. Plus I think while Wenger will not be the Manager for all that much longer he will probably move to a director of football position within the club so his talents could still be utilized for many more years to come. Of course with Dein leaving who knows things are a bit up in the air but I am still optimistic It hink the foundation is there for many more years of success.

And yes Chelsea are the smallest of the big 4 in the long term but I was refering more to current financial strength more than anything else and I am not so sure that Roman will be leaving anytime soon.

[samifan24]

Okay so I'm down to my final four EPL teams. I'm having a hard time between them. Here's what I like and dislike about my final four. I apologize in advance for any inaccuracies. I'm doing my best, here.

Aston Villa (currently 11th in EPL)

Aston Villa are an up-and-coming lot from Birmingham. They have an American chairman, Randy Lerner, and a mix of veteran leaders (Barry, McCann, Mellberg) and young stars (Gabriel Agbonlahor and Ashley Young). They have a history of success and have won 203 EPL matches over 14 seasons, the sixth most wins in EPL history (since 1992). The bad news is that the Villa fans were called "self-loathing" by an e-mail sent to Bill Simmons when he went looking for a team to support and I don't want to be a part of that. I want to be proud of my team through thick and thin and I want to know that other fans don't give up on the club at the first sign of trouble.

Everton (currently 5th in EPL)

I like Everton because they are a successful, storied club. They've spent more seasons in the top flight of English football than any other club in history, 14 (although they're tied with quite a few clubs, including Aston Villa). They are currently in the race for a European cup berth, something which my other three final four clubs cannot claim. They have a bright young manager in David Moyes and a roster full of young and talented star players including American keeper Tim Howard. They have a heated rivalry with cross-town Liverpool called the "Mersyside Derby." They also have fans worldwide and especially in the US, where a group of fans run a supporters club.

The downside to Everton is that they rarely keep their young stud players and instead sell them off to larger clubs (ala the Oakland A's). Also I've followed Liverpool casually from time-to-time and I'm not sure I could out-and-out hate them as a rival. Also, Everton has been wildly inconsistent in recent years, finishing 15th in 2002, seventh in 2003, fourth in 2004 and 11th in 2005.

Charlton Athletic (currently 19th in EPL)

Charlton interests me because they seem very different. They're not all that successful (one fan likened them to the Detroit Lions-yikes!) but they appoint a fan to the club's board each year to weigh in on key issues like transfers, etc. They have a good young star in Darren Bent, a veteran striker in Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink and feature US National Team member Cory Gibbs when he's healthy. They've spent 7 seasons in the EPL but have a sub-.500 record to show for it. This year they're facing the drop unless they can win their last match vs. Tottenham and Wigan loses to Sheffield United.

Middlesbrough (currently 12th in EPL)

Middlesbrough is located in the Northeast of England, near a town called Cleveland (I'm a huge Indians fan). Their manager is former English national team player Gareth Southgate, who retired from playing for the club in order to take the manager's reigns. I don't recognize many names on their roster (except for Viduka) but I'm told that young midfielders Stewart Downing and James Morrison are among the EPL's best and brightest future stars. The club hoisted its first major trophy in 2004, when it won the League Cup.

[-apoc-]

I would go with either Everton or Boro as there is almost no way Charlton stay up this year and every game i have seen of Villa this season has been as boring as watching paint dry. Martin Oneill is a good manager but his tactics as very defensive overall from what I have seen.

[Fighter of Foo]

Here's the question I should have asked from the beginning; why not just watch a bunch of games and figure out who you like that way?

[Crapshoot]

Not Everton. There many many mistakes you can make in life - rooting for Everton is one of the avoidable ones. IMO, I'd go for Spurs or Villa - which means Villa. :D

[Critch]

Newcastle United have fired their manager, so it might be a good time to tie up with them and follow their fortunes under the new guy (who hasn't been announced yet). Surely this time they'll get somebody who'll say "hang on, we don't have any defenders. Lets buy some".

[ISiddiqui]

Newcastle United have fired their manager, so it might be a good time to tie up with them and follow their fortunes under the new guy (who hasn't been announced yet). Surely this time they'll get somebody who'll say "hang on, we don't have any defenders. Lets buy some".

That's good. I did like Roeder last year, but it appears a more established manager would have been a far better choice. Roeder is, though, probably a great assistant.

[Butter]

What about Middlesbrough and Portsmouth? I haven't heard much about either team. Why is that?

Because Portsmouth sucks.

[cthomer5000]

Newcastle United have fired their manager, so it might be a good time to tie up with them and follow their fortunes under the new guy (who hasn't been announced yet). Surely this time they'll get somebody who'll say "hang on, we don't have any defenders. Lets buy some".

This job really has Allardyce written all over it.

[Critch]

This job really has Allardyce written all over it.

Certainly does. Apparently British bookmakers have stopped taking bets on Allardyce, so looks like he'll be announced some time soon. That should be interesting.

[PraetorianX]

I would go with either Everton or Boro as there is almost no way Charlton stay up this year and every game i have seen of Villa this season has been as boring as watching paint dry. Martin Oneill is a good manager but his tactics as very defensive overall from what I have seen.

Very true about O'Neill, one of the reasons I didn't want him as Spurs manager after we sacked Hoddle (at the time I was hoping for Mourinho...this is long before he had won the CL with Porto...) as many others did because his teams are just boring to watch.

And of those mentioned...Everton and Boro would be the best I suppose, of the two I'd go Everton but neither really excite me too much.

Newcastle United have fired their manager, so it might be a good time to tie up with them and follow their fortunes under the new guy (who hasn't been announced yet). Surely this time they'll get somebody who'll say "hang on, we don't have any defenders. Lets buy some".

Newcastle will continue to suck while Fat Freddie Sheppard is in charge. Though I'm sure getting rid of Roeder will help.

Personally, I'd be all too happy to see them relegated. Never liked 'em.

[moriarty]

FWIW -

Okay so I'm down to my final four EPL teams. I'm having a hard time between them. Here's what I like and dislike about my final four. I apologize in advance for any inaccuracies. I'm doing my best, here.

Aston Villa (currently 11th in EPL)


Don't listen to Bill Simmons. This is the best team on your board ... easy pick. Lerner is already on record saying he is willing to spend this summer. Potentially exciting times for Villa.


Everton (currently 5th in EPL)

Yeah, they have the derby and Tim Howard. Other than that, there's no reason to subject yourself to the pain.


Charlton Athletic (currently 19th in EPL)


Barring a miracle, they'll be relegated meaning you'll never see them on TV. Also Bent will be the first one gone once they're relegated and Haslebank is a year or two away from retiremnt. Don't hold your breath waiting to see Gibbs on the pitch either.


Middlesbrough (currently 12th in EPL)


Middlesbrough is located in the Northeast of England, near a town called Cleveland (I'm a huge Indians fan). Might as well pick your team by kit colors. ;) The reason you haven't heard of many players is because there's not a lot there past Downing, a waiting to be injured Woodgate, and an aging Viduka.

[cthomer5000]

Based on those finalists, I think you should make your choice between Everton and Villa.

Also worth noting that Birmingham City is coming up, giving Villa a true local rival again.

[ISiddiqui]

Of those choices, I'd take Everton. Sure you'll be the Mets to Liverpool's Yankees (not saying Liverpool are the EPL's Yankees, but just using a quick and dirty analogy here), but I've always liked the squad and Moyes.

[cthomer5000]

I kind of agree with the Everton thoughts. Also, I don't think there is any shame in choosing a team because you would like to lower your odds of having to deal with the stress of a relegation battle any time soon.

I really put 0 thought into my team (Tottenham), but I'm glad it worked out the way it did. I got lucky.

[Young Drachma]

I chose Aston Villa.

Of all of the teams I watched, they were the only team that excited me enough to make me think it was a team I wanted to watch consistently. Ashley Young is a nice young talent, too. And I watched a lot of games. So I feel like I had a good enough representation of teams to get an idea of what I was looking for. I actually considered Middlesbrough for a little bit, because they just seemed like a fun fan team to root for, in the sense that they're anything but a trendy team to root for. But...the lack of being able to see them played a part in my choice and also, they didn't seem to be going anywhere.

Everton was among my final three too.

So there.

[Toddzilla]

FWIW, who's gonna get promoted into the EPL and are they worth rooting for? Or will they be relegated again next year?

[cthomer5000]

Birmingham City and Sunderland are coming up for sure. Then 4 more teams are in a promotion playoff: Derby County, West Bromwich Albion, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Southampton.

[moriarty]

Birmingham City and Sunderland are coming up for sure. Then 4 more teams are in a promotion playoff: Derby County, West Bromwich Albion, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Southampton.

Sunderland will go down again next year, and come back up, and go down again ...

Edit: Looks like they're getting 25MM in new financing, so I may have to rethink this one.

[MJ4H]

WOLVES and seriously the only reason I like Wolves is because it's an awesome name and an awesome logo

[Critch]

Sunderland are probably worth rooting for. They've got the financing in place now, plus they've got a manager (Roy Keane) who seems to know what he's doing if one season isnt too soon to call him a good manager.

Birmingham City will be boring again but will probably have a shot of avoiding relegation. Personally I hope they go down and Steve Bruce loses his job.

Of the four playoff teams, whichever one comes up will struggle. Southampton would have the best chance of sticking in the EPL, I think.

[cthomer5000]

BTW, Everton are like 99% certain of a Top 7 finish (and therefore UEFA cup qualification) at this point. The only possibility is if Tottenham AND Bolton pass them AND they get drilled in their game against Chelsea (lets say 5-0) and then Reading drill Blackburn by 6 goals.

So the realistic worst-case scenario is finishing 7th, and beating out Reading on goal differential. Everton are safe, so it's basically:

Tottenham, Bolton, Portsmouth, Reading and maybe Blackburn fighting for the last 2 spots.

[Young Drachma]

I'm watching Spurs play Charlton. I can see why their fans like them so much.

[Young Drachma]

I have to say, that after watching this stuff for a few weeks regularly, I've been captivated by the fans of these teams. It's what I wish for baseball SO MUCH, but know that there is no turning back.

I mean, it's so neat to see people -- for a team like Charlton Athletic -- who lose today and will be relegated after this year, to have fans staying AFTER the game, to sing songs and chant and just...really pay tribune and homage to their team.

Because to them, it's not just about the players. It's THEIR team, it's THEIR identity to a degree and you can just see that on their faces as they pan through the crowd.

I think that's the coolest thing ever and it's really giving me even more of an appreciation for the game.

[cthomer5000]

It really is genuinly nice to see the fans show the team they appreciate them. They're going down but the fans know that by and large that team tried their hardest every week.

A great moment like that for me this year was when Tottenham got knocked out of the UEFA Cup. On that particular night the team was a disaster. They let up 2 early goes (in 8 minutes) meaning they would have had to come back and win the game 4-2 to advance becuase of how the first leg had gone in Spain. So 8 minutes in everyone knew it was probably over. They fought back and tied it up 2-2 with like 20 minutes to go, but never got any closer. After the game the crowd cheeered like crazy for them, basically thanking them for the season they'd had. I mean, they made the Carling Cup semi-finals, it took Chelsea two tries to beat them in the FA Cup quarter-final, and they made it to the UEFA Cup quarterfinals. They didn't come away with anything but it was a very enjoyable year, and i thought it was so cool that the crowd had the prescence of mind to recognize that. In the US they probably would have gotten booed mercilessly and the stadium would have been half-empty by halftime.

[Young Drachma]

In the US they probably would have gotten booed mercilessly and the stadium would have been half-empty by halftime.

That's all I could think about. That if we had anything like these scenarios here, fans wouldn't show up for the last regular season game, let alone stay afterwards to say "thanks guys for doing your best."

[Passacaglia]

Do EPL teams ever move cities?

[Dunleavy]

I chose Aston Villa.

Of all of the teams I watched, they were the only team that excited me enough to make me think it was a team I wanted to watch consistently. Ashley Young is a nice young talent, too. And I watched a lot of games. So I feel like I had a good enough representation of teams to get an idea of what I was looking for. I actually considered Middlesbrough for a little bit, because they just seemed like a fun fan team to root for, in the sense that they're anything but a trendy team to root for. But...the lack of being able to see them played a part in my choice and also, they didn't seem to be going anywhere.
Everton was among my final three too.

So there.

i was going recommend Aston Villa for you
-they have a strong fan base filled of regular mid-lands english (not a trendy team)
-an American flavor (new owner)
-really good manager
-good young players
-they have money to buy players

word of warning, i know you didnt want a big four team but they are the only ones that win anything

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, I didn't really want an EPL to root for so they'd win. I mean, I don't watch it enough to really get into it at this point. So what they win/don't win isn't of consequence. I just wanted a team that had some upside or something...not a team that'd be in a battle towards relegation each year and with ownership that make you scratch your head relentlessly.

Because I do that enough as it is.

Edit: obviously winning is nice. I don't want a loser team. But..that wasn't my sole criteria.

[Young Drachma]

Do EPL teams ever move cities?

I wondered this, too, actually.

[Chief Rum]

I wondered this, too, actually.

Apparently only if they're AFC Wimbledon.

[Dunleavy]

Do EPL teams ever move cities?

I wondered this, too, actually.

No

that's the simple answer, Arsenal moved from south of the Thames to NorthLondon and Spurs have never forgotten it and that happened in 1908-ish, in it's 150 year history i'm sure you could find something (Wimbleton comes to mind)

reason why it doesnt happen
-we have a lot more cities then England combined with only 30 teams per sport so we've got large cities with out teams
-over there every town has a team and all large cities have multiple teams so there isn't the market for moves, every one all ready supports a team there are no un-taped markets

[moriarty]

Because to them, it's not just about the players. It's THEIR team, it's THEIR identity to a degree and you can just see that on their faces as they pan through the crowd.

I think that's the coolest thing ever and it's really giving me even more of an appreciation for the game.

You should read Fever Pitch by Nick Hornsby. It's a great book detailing his identification with Arsenal.

[Young Drachma]

No

that's the simple answer, Arsenal moved from south of the Thames to NorthLondon and Spurs have never forgotten it and that happened in 1908-ish, in it's 150 year history i'm sure you could find something (Wimbleton comes to mind)

reason why it doesnt happen
-we have a lot more cities then England combined with only 30 teams per sport so we've got large cities with out teams
-over there every town has a team and all large cities have multiple teams so there isn't the market for moves, every one all ready supports a team there are no un-taped markets

I suspected it was something like that.

[ISiddiqui]

With promotion/relegation it really is hard to move teams. With so many spots in so many levels, every city/town/village has their own team and established fan base. It'd be hard to move into a place that has a storied history of backing a team (even if they are in the lower divisions) and trying to win new fans.

[flere-imsaho]

You should read Fever Pitch by Nick Hornsby. It's a great book detailing his identification with Arsenal.

I can't recommend this book enough. Though it's mostly about his devotion to Arsenal, and somewhat about what makes men tick, it's really all about what makes a true fan a fan.

[PraetorianX]

Do EPL teams ever move cities?

No, not really. Milton Keys Dons (i.e. Franchise FC, formerly Wimbledon F.C.) moved...hasn't turned out good for them though.

And Arsenal moved from South London (Woolwich) to North London. Bastards. As if that (moving into OUR area) wasn't bad enough, the arrogant little so and so's cheated their way past us to get promotion in 1919! Things really haven't change though, have they? Divers, they should be in the Olympics.

Apparently only if they're AFC Wimbledon.

AFC Wimbledon is a team formed from the ashes of the former Wimbledon F.C. when they moved to Milton Keys.

[PraetorianX]

I'm watching Spurs play Charlton. I can see why their fans like them so much.

Eh? I thought we (Spurs) played like crap. At least after Berbatov got the early goal. We're just lucky Charlton suck so bad they couldn't punish us for being lazy. If only we'd learn how to kill teams off...we'd be so much better. :(

[cthomer5000]

Eh? I thought we (Spurs) played like crap. At least after Berbatov got the early goal. We're just lucky Charlton suck so bad they couldn't punish us for being lazy. If only we'd learn how to kill teams off...we'd be so much better. :(

I thought it nearly captured the feel of this whole year. They came out flying and looking great, and definitely should have scored more than 1 goal early. Then in the second half it was all painful mistakes in the back and trying to let the other team into the game. I was waiting for Charlton to score for about a 20 minute stretch when they had rough 300 corner kicks. Not until Defoe put that ball in the net did I feel in any way sure they'd get all 3 points.

[Chief Rum]

AFC Wimbledon is a team formed from the ashes of the former Wimbledon F.C. when they moved to Milton Keys.

You knew what I meant.

[cthomer5000]

You knew what I meant.

Well maybe, but it was exactly wrong basically. There's a subtle distinction there. :)

[PraetorianX]

I thought it nearly captured the feel of this whole year. They came out flying and looking great, and definitely should have scored more than 1 goal early. Then in the second half it was all painful mistakes in the back and trying to let the other team into the game. I was waiting for Charlton to score for about a 20 minute stretch when they had rough 300 corner kicks. Not until Defoe put that ball in the net did I feel in any way sure they'd get all 3 points.

Indeed, we gotta get sorted in defense. :( We've scored 101 goals in all competitions this year...but we've let way too many in aswell. With King injured, and other injuries...we've had like 16 different back four combinations I believe. If we can settle that down a bit and if Robbo can refind his form, AND we keep scoring...should be good.

Yonis Kaboul is likely coming in from what I've heard, should help...highly rated CB.

[Crapshoot]

I can't recommend this book enough. Though it's mostly about his devotion to Arsenal, and somewhat about what makes men tick, it's really all about what makes a true fan a fan.

""". I've never read a better book about how bonded we are to our sports.

[Ajaxab]

""". I've never read a better book about how bonded we are to our sports.

Quoted for truth. Soccer fan or not, this is a great read.

[MylesKnight]

Did anyone mention Wigan as a possibility? I mean look at the FOFC connection here..

WIG-an.

Anybody? :)

[SirFozzie]

Did anyone mention Wigan as a possibility? I mean look at the FOFC connection here..

WIG-an.

Anybody? :)

*smacks MylesKnight*

Besides, the odds are they're going down :(

[Oilers9911]

My wife chose Nottingham Forest as her team when she started following soccer and at the time they were a Premier League team. She chose them because she has a Robin Hood fascination (ughhh) so as her punishment for picking a soccer team based on Robin Hood Forest have dropped two divisions since into League One. (The old Division Two) They are in the playoffs to be promoted to the League Championship this season however.

[cthomer5000]

My wife chose Nottingham Forest as her team when she started following soccer and at the time they were a Premier League team. She chose them because she has a Robin Hood fascination (ughhh) so as her punishment for picking a soccer team based on Robin Hood Forest have dropped two divisions since into League One. (The old Division Two) They are in the playoffs to be promoted to the League Championship this season however.

They've got the awesome novelty of having won more European Titles than First Division/Premiership titles, which rocks. I'm rooting for them to move up, as I played a really long FIFA career with them, eventually getting them back into the Champions League. It was then funny earlier this year when I saw them in the FA Cup match on TV and saw all the guys who were simply video game characters to me playing for real. :)

[Oilers9911]

They've got the awesome novelty of having won more European Titles than First Division/Premiership titles, which rocks. I'm rooting for them to move up, as I played a really long FIFA career with them, eventually getting them back into the Champions League. It was then funny earlier this year when I saw them in the FA Cup match on TV and saw all the guys who were simply video game characters to me playing for real. :)

I'm the same with Blackpool. My first soccer management sim was One-Nil which I played endlessly, and I was Blackpool for many seasons. Then when I switched to Championship Manager 97-98 I was Blackpool again so I have an affinity for that club so when they had an FA Cup game on TV it was neat to watch.

[Calis]

Heh, I'm lost now, been about 4 years since I've followed soccer at all, and my how things have changed.

I've just now got Fox Soccer Channel back and am watching my first game again this morning, and am thinking I need an EPL team also. I've always been a big Celtic fan, no particular reason other than it was the first team I picked when I fired up my first game of Championship Manager, it was the 97/98 variety...man I miss that one.

Now that I've found out FSC doesn't play any SPL games it's time to move South. You'll find most of my thoughts are based upon initial CM addictions. I'm really down to two choices now, one of them being Tottenham and this is the direction I'm leaning. I'm watching them play Arsenal now and am already cheering for them, so that's something. I'm enjoying watching this young Bale kid, and more importantly they have Robbie Keane on the team who was the wonderkid in 97/98 and someone I always tried to nab. I have lots of fond memories of him scoring goals for me, and if Wolves were still in the premiereship I'd pick them no question. All around a fun team.

Aston Villa as picked earlier would be my 2nd choice right now, mostly because Martin O'Neill managing and I'm a big fan of his. I was always intrigued by them because I heard that Stilyan Petrov transferred there and I was a big fan of his even though he seems like kind of a dick. It sounds like he's been doing pretty terrible for them so far though, is this true?

Everton and Newcastle are other options, I guess I'll watch a few weeks and see where it goes. Anyway, this thread has been pretty helpful.

Decisions, decisions.

[Critch]

Jump in with Spurs now and you'll get the drama of who their new manager will be. Today could well be the last nail in the coffin for Jol. I like him, but anybody who spends 18mil pounds on a lump of wood like Bent without reinforcing midfield probably deserves to go.

Petrov has done pretty poorly with Villa, EPL refs dont seem to be as impressed by his run-into-the-area-and-fall-over talents as SPL refs were.