Possible video evidence linking Vick to dogfighting...

[larrymcg421]

I've been a big defender of Vick, but if this is true then he deserves to be suspended for the year at a minimum.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AvuJlMBeClwULSYYDIYfu4BDubYF?slug=jc-vick051407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

The lead investigator in the case of dog-fighting accusations against Atlanta quarterback Michael Vick said Monday that she believes there is substantial evidence to eventually tie Vick directly to the felony crime.

That evidence could eventually include videotapes of Vick at matches. Kathy Strouse, the Animal Control coordinator for the City of Chesapeake in Virginia, said Monday that she has received a tip from what is described as a "reliable source" that tapes of Vick exist that would tie him directly to the burgeoning scandal and a possible felony charge.

"We don't know where (the tapes) are or if they do indeed exist, but I have been told that they are out there," said Strouse, who is also affiliated with two other organizations involved in the welfare of animals. "Without knowing where they are, there's no possibility of getting a search warrant at this point."

Strouse said she has also talked with individuals who can "put Vick on that property" during matches. However, those individuals have been reluctant to testify at this point, leaving much of the evidence against Vick that has become public at this point as circumstantial.

Last month, Vick's residence in Smithfield, Va., was raided and dog-fighting paraphernalia was confiscated. Vick initially denied any knowledge of the situation, blaming family and friends for the operation. However, Vick declined to comment on the advice of attorneys when approached at the Falcons' mini-camp over the weekend.

Regardless, Strouse said she is "very confident" about eventually tying Vick directly to the dog fighting based on the evidence she and other investigators have gathered. The information has come after years of talk throughout the Newport News area where Vick grew up that he has been involved in dog fighting.

For her part, Strouse was not backing down and essentially challenged Surry County Commonwealth attorney Gerald Poindexter to charge Vick. Last week, Poindexter made statements indicating he was reluctant to charge anyone with dog fighting.

"He was at the home and saw the equipment that we seized," Strouse said of Poindexter. "When we were there, he said he had enough right there to issue an indictment. He didn't say who he would indict, but he said he had enough.

"Now, with what he has said, it makes you think, 'What in the world is going on in Surry County?' This certainly doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy about the Surry County attorney," Strouse said.

Poindexter did not return a call from Yahoo! Sports on Monday.

Dog fighting is a felony in 48 states and is a misdemeanor in Idaho and Wyoming. In Virginia, a conviction can carry up to five years in prison and/or a fine of up to $2,500, Strouse said.

Before the NFL draft in late April, Vick met with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell to discuss the situation. In addition, Falcons owner Arthur Blank has expressed growing concern with the investigation.

Earlier this offseason, the Falcons traded backup Matt Schaub to the Houston Texans and later signed veteran Joey Harrington to be Vick's primary backup. However, Harrington is not seen as a long-term solution.

On Friday, Vick politely told a group of approximately 30 reporters that he wasn't going to discuss the latest controversy and that the only thing on his mind was football.

"It is still under investigation, and once it is over, we will talk about it. As of right now, I cannot talk about the situation," Vick said. His lone departure from that was to say: "Don't plan on talking about me anymore unless it's about football."

While Vick's non-answer was predictable, it was also an interesting backtrack from only two weeks before. On April 27, the day before the draft, Vick was in New York to promote the NFL Quarterback Challenge. At the time, Vick was asked about the investigation in Virginia and disassociated himself from the house and the investigators' findings.

Vick's response was quickly refuted. According to several media outlets, neighbors said that Vick was seen in the area regularly and had even purchased materials such as syringes, which are often used in the training of dogs for fighting.

On Friday, NFL scout, one-time Yahoo! Sports analyst and current FOX Sports Radio host Chris Landry took it a step further during an interview on 620 WDAE in Tampa, Fla. Landry said that Ray Buchanan, a former Atlanta defensive back, told him that Vick has been involved in dog fighting for years.

"(Buchanan) tells me that Michael has been into this dog fighting for so long that … he not only knew about, he is behind all of it," Landry said. "He's paying for all of it … Apparently, he's into it big time."

Buchanan strongly denied saying any of that when contacted by Yahoo! Sports on Monday.

"I have to talk to Chris about all of that because I didn't say anything like that at all," Buchanan said. "If I was going to say any of that, I would have said it myself on my own radio program. I don't know anything about Michael being involved in any of that and I would not snitch on a player if I did. I'm a player's mouthpiece."

These developments led to conjecture about whether Vick will get in trouble with federal authorities and/or the NFL. Blank told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution last week that he is obviously concerned.

"From the facts we have so far, it's not a pretty picture. It's clearly an issue, and we'll wait to see what revolves around it," Blank said.

[Young Drachma]

goodness gracious people. Maybe we should just preemptively ban this guy from life on earth and be done with it. I mean...seriously.

[st.cronin]

Nothing there but innuendo as far as I can tell. I freely admit I believe he's guilty, but the evidence as I understand it is pretty thin.

[larrymcg421]

I'm not saying that this article is evidence that Vick did anything wrong. I said "if" the article is true, then he should be suspended.

It could be an entire fabrication and I wouldn't be shocked one bit. I like Vick so I hope it's not true.

[Atocep]

An article I read had the investigators saying they didn't expect to see Vick charged with anything because he's set himself up with several layers of protection (friends and family) that are willing to take the fall for him. This article says the same thing in a round about way.

Unless he's really pissed off someone with access to those alleged videos, he'll never be charged.

[st.cronin]

An article I read had the investigators saying they didn't expect to see Vick charged with anything because he's set himself up with several layers of protection (friends and family) that are willing to take the fall for him. This article says the same thing in a round about way.

Unless he's really pissed off someone with access to those alleged videos, he'll never be charged.

I guess he could still be subject to suspension, though. If what I think is true turns out to be true, I hope he never plays another down of football in the NFL, the CFL, the AFL, or the XFL.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think they should put him in a cage with somone else's starving, fighting pitbull and let him get his lousy ass mauled.

anyone that breeds dogs+keeps dogs for fighting is lower than low and doesn't deserve to be alive. honestly...shitheads that do that (be they michael vick or someone else) deserve death IMO

[stevew]

I don't get how we're supposed to believe that he has a 750k house that he never visits, and doesn't know what goes on there. I mean, shit, it's right in his neighborhood too.

[WVUFAN]

goodness gracious people. Maybe we should just preemptively ban this guy from life on earth and be done with it. I mean...seriously.

I'd be fine with at least banning him from the NFL. Then maybe a nice cell somewhere.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'd be fine with at least banning him from the NFL. Then maybe a nice cell somewhere.


if he gets banned then that would take care of blank (he's the falcon's owner right?) 's decision about what to do as far as keeping him or not. Leave them kinda screwed they traded schaub, but oh well.

Hell, ATL might actually be able to field a quality football team and go somewher ein the playoffs.

*and yeah...i'm pretty much done with Michael Vick at this point. I hope if he does get to play that some d-lineman rolls over his leg and blows it apart so he can't walk ever again.

[Butter]

Good thing they traded Schaub.

[Schmidty]

*and yeah...i'm pretty much done with Michael Vick at this point. I hope if he does get to play that some d-lineman rolls over his leg and blows it apart so he can't walk ever again.

Dude, I hope you know that I like you, but damn. That was an ignorant, hateful statement. And I love animals as much, if not more, as everyone else on this board.

Some people might not be redeemable (although that's not my view), but a rich, self-absorbed guy who might have hurt a lot of animals is not one of them.

Even if you aren't a Christian, I would still have to say that that much hate for another human is very unhealthy to yourself and others.

[Schmidty]

By the way, I know that that was so preachy, and I apologize for sounding holier-than-thou, especially since I am far, far from perfect.

[Groundhog]

Dude, I hope you know that I like you, but damn. That was an ignorant, hateful statement. And I love animals as much, if not more, as everyone else on this board.

Some people might not be redeemable (although that's not my view), but a rich, self-absorbed guy who might have hurt a lot of animals is not one of them.

Even if you aren't a Christian, I would still have to say that that much hate for another human is very unhealthy to yourself and others.

*shrug* If a guy who is hardcore in to organising and breeding dogs for dog fighting then goes out and suffers a leg injury that forces him to walk with an artificial leg or something, I'd consider that fair karma.

Hell, it probably wouldn't even be at the "fair" stage yet.

[KWhit]

Where there's this much smoke, there's fire. I have no idea if he'll be charged, but it sure does sound like he's guilty.

He lost me as a fan when he flipped off the fans last year. Now, I hope he never plays another down in the NFL.

[Schmidty]

*shrug* If a guy who is hardcore in to organising and breeding dogs for dog fighting then goes out and suffers a leg injury that forces him to walk with an artificial leg or something, I'd consider that fair karma.

Hell, it probably wouldn't even be at the "fair" stage yet.

Technically, karma isn't fulfilled until a future life. :)

[Groundhog]

Technically, karma isn't fulfilled until a future life. :)

Hopefully in his next life then he'll be a fighting dog. :)

[Anthony]

ok, the question that's really on everyone's mind is what happens when the Falcons face the Browns and the Dawg Pound. i must be at that game.

[Schmidty]

Hopefully in his next life then he'll be a fighting dog. :)

So wait....You support dog fighting????

Hypocrite!!!! :D

[Anthony]

http://www.ticketsconcertssports.com/dawg-fan.jpg

Michael Vick, you got some 'splaining to do.

[sabotai]

Hopefully in his next life then he'll be a fighting dog. :)

Actually, he'd be one of the baiting dogs.

[DaddyTorgo]

By the way, I know that that was so preachy, and I apologize for sounding holier-than-thou, especially since I am far, far from perfect.


it's cool. I just love doggies. And hate seeing people take advantage of them. no hard feelings. And yeah...i have lots of rage against my fellow human beings, because frankly a lot of the time I question whether or not we as a species are worthy of our continued survival, given the harm we cause other species, and the planet as a whole, and the general lack of things we have done to make the world a better place (not for each other, but in general).

Nope...we'd rather focus on killing each other.

[Swaggs]

Looks like either Landry or Buchanan are lying and with a quote like "I don't know anything about Michael being involved in any of that and I would not snitch on a player if I did," I'm guessing that Buchanan told Landry in, what he thought was, confidence and Landry blabbed.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I'm guessing that Buchanan told Landry in, what he thought was, confidence and Landry blabbed.

I believe this is bang on to what happened.

[Ksyrup]

Looks like either Landry or Buchanan are lying and with a quote like "I don't know anything about Michael being involved in any of that and I would not snitch on a player if I did," I'm guessing that Buchanan told Landry in, what he thought was, confidence and Landry blabbed.

What was the timing sequence of all of these events? Was there any discussion of Vick and the dogs around the time of the draft? I bet this came up in discussion off the record, Landry sat on it because there really wasn't a story (or at least nothing he could go with, aside from what Buchanan told him), and then when it did become a story, he went public with the info.

[KWhit]

What was the timing sequence of all of these events? Was there any discussion of Vick and the dogs around the time of the draft? I bet this came up in discussion off the record, Landry sat on it because there really wasn't a story (or at least nothing he could go with, aside from what Buchanan told him), and then when it did become a story, he went public with the info.

There was already an investigation of Vick and dogfighting when the draft happened. It came out the day or two before the draft, if I recall.

I remember because of how uncomfortable I felt the beginning of the draft was with Vick standing up there with Goodell paying tribute to VT.

[Ben E Lou]

As always in these sorts of cases, what an athlete does off the field has zero impact on my ability to enjoy seeing the world's best at their craft do what they do. I usually have fun watching him, and would miss getting to see him if he gets suspended.



shurg

[Ksyrup]

There's no doubt I enjoy watching him. But I would also not be happy if there is real evidence that he did something wrong and wasn't held accountable by the league, if not the legal system.

[Ben E Lou]

There's no doubt I enjoy watching him. But I would also not be happy if there is real evidence that he did something wrong and wasn't held accountable by the league, if not the legal system.

Legal system? Absolutely.

League? If they ascertain that it's bad for business not to do something, then that's their right. And it's my right to lose a little interest if Joey Harrington is my favorite team's starting QB. Given the history of the fanbase of the franchise in question, there's a good bit of question in my mind about whether or not it would be bad for business in the short term, and even to some degree the long term.

Buchanan? That one could go either way. I could easily see him wanting to impress Landry with his "insider" knowledge of Vick. I could just as easily see him telling Landry in what he thought was confidence and recanting.

[Ksyrup]

I don't have a problem with the league taking action where the legal system can't/won't. Does the league need to meet the heightened criminal standard of proof in order to take action? I guess it ultimately depends on the terms of the CBA, but I don't it should. It's always bad for business not to put the best product on the field, or shelf, or whatever it is, but that can't be the league's only consideration. Given the Pacman Jones stuff - most, if not all, of which he hasn't even been charged or tried on - I think the precedent is set for the league to suspend Vick for this. Whether they will or not is another question. But then they open themselves up to questions of inconsistent or arbitrary decision-making on these issues, which just bolsters the case of someone like Jones.

[Kodos]

As always in these sorts of cases, what an athlete does off the field has zero impact on my ability to enjoy seeing the world's best at their craft do what they do. I usually have fun watching him, and would miss getting to see him if he gets suspended.



shurg

Does this apply to anything he does off of the field?

I'm with the crowd that hopes he never sees the field again if he is guilty. And spends some serious time in jail.

[Ksyrup]

I agree with SD in the sense that if he plays, I'm not going to stop watching him simply because I know (or think) he abuses animals. I would still marvel at his athletic ability. My focus is more on whether he should even see the field. I think there is reason for him to be suspended and would be disappointed if that doesn't happen. But if he plays, I'm not going to boycott watching him or suddenly think less of his athletic ability. And I also agree that it would stink for fans to be deprived of seeing him play. But if it is what he deserves, so be it. Even if it takes down the Falcons franchise.

[Ben E Lou]

Does this apply to anything he does off of the field?
As long as his on-field performance entertains me, no. Sunday School is in the morning. Football is in the afternoon. ;)

[albionmoonlight]

It's my right to lose a little interest if Joey Harrington is my favorite team's starting QB.

I love it. This should be the league's new marketing slogan.


As for the other points, I used to think that I agreed with SkyDog, but if I decide that these allegations are true (which I have not yet. Remember the Duke Rape case. What we hear through the media is worse than misinformation. It is misinformation carefully crafted to make things sound worse than they actually are.) then I will hold it against Vick.

It's funny because intellectually I beleive that hurting humans is worse than hurting animals. In my gut, though, dog fighting creates a feeling of disgust so great that it will affect how I view the player.

If I decide that the guy fought dogs, then he is public enemy #1 in my eyes and it will change my reactions to him on Sunday afternoon.

[Kodos]

So if he is a child molester, it is okay? You'll still root for him?

Sorry for the extreme example, but I just don't see how you can continue rooting for a guy based solely on his athletic ability, no matter what kind of person he is off the field. I'm sorry, but if this guy is maiming dogs for entertainment, I hope a pit bull eats his calf and he never plays again. Being athletically gifted does not compensate for being an asshole.

And I really don't care if it lowers the fan's interest. Root for guys who aren't assholes, like Peyton Manning. Why give adulation to someone who clearly doesn't respect the fans (flicking them off) and apparently has no regard for animals either. Screw him. He can rot in jail if he's guilty. Maybe if enough guys have their careers taken away for being assholes, others will learn to at least pretend to be decent people.

I won't go any farther in this discussion, as I'm sure neither side will suddenly see the light, so there's no real point. I just think it is impossible to separate athletes and entertainers careers from their personal lives when they do reprehensible things out of the limelight.

[DaddyTorgo]

So if he is a child molester, it is okay? You'll still root for him?

Sorry for the extreme example, but I just don't see how you can continue rooting for a guy based solely on his athletic ability, no matter what kind of person he is off the field. I'm sorry, but if this guy is maiming dogs for entertainment, I hope a pit bull eats his calf and he never plays again. Being athletically gifted does not compensate for being an asshole.

And I really don't care if it lowers the fan's interest. Root for guys who aren't assholes, like Peyton Manning. Why give adulation to someone who clearly doesn't respect the fans (flicking them off) and apparently has no regard for animals either. Screw him. He can rot in jail if he's guilty. Maybe if enough guys have their careers taken away for being assholes, others will learn to at least pretend to be decent people.

I won't go any farther in this discussion, as I'm sure neither side will suddenly see the light, so there's no real point. I just think it is impossible to separate athletes and entertainers careers from their personal lives when they do reprehensible things out of the limelight.

well said Kodos. More eloquently than I had the patience or desire to expend on it, given what a douchebag he certainly appears to be, given all that is coming to light.

I suppose it depends on one's definition of reprehensible though, and you could get into murky waters there. But that's why rooting for someone is a personal decision. I might be fine with him having an affair, but not maimig dogs. Others might see it the other way around, or be fine with both, or neither.

[BishopMVP]

This is why I argued against punishing Pac-Man so harshly (at this time) before he is convicted of anything, or even charged with most of his alleged crimes. Under the standard of merely generating bad publicity for the league, they have to suspend Vick now regardless of whether he is ever charged with anything. (And put me in the camp that believes Vick knew about and participated in these activities, but will never be convicted of anything serious - at worst, he'll be charged like Ray Lewis despite lack of convictable evidence and then plea-bargain down to a minor charge.)

I'm gonna go start peddling stories to the media about Peyton Manning and LaDainian Tomlinson flying to Hong Kong for underaged sex and while there conspiring with the Chinese Government to undermine US protection of Taiwan.

[DaddyTorgo]

This is why I argued against punishing Pac-Man so harshly (at this time) before he is convicted of anything, or even charged with most of his alleged crimes. Under the standard of merely generating bad publicity for the league, they have to suspend Vick now regardless of whether he is ever charged with anything. (And put me in the camp that believes Vick knew about and participated in these activities, but will never be convicted of anything serious - at worst, he'll be charged like Ray Lewis despite lack of convictable evidence and then plea-bargain down to a minor charge.)

I'm gonna go start peddling stories to the media about Peyton Manning and LaDainian Tomlinson flying to Hong Kong for underaged sex and while there conspiring with the Chinese Government to undermine US protection of Taiwan.


we don't need that. we'll beat their asses anyways

[Ksyrup]

I'm gonna go start peddling stories to the media about Peyton Manning and LaDainian Tomlinson flying to Hong Kong for underaged sex and while there conspiring with the Chinese Government to undermine US protection of Taiwan.

You lost me here. Is this a joke, or what you see as a "slippery slope" possibility for the way the NFL is policing itself? Because to equate the legitimacy that Jones' arrests and Vick's ownership of property involved in a crime have with unsubstantiated rumors is not a valid comparison, quite obviously. The NFL is a long way from that, although I agree with your original point that the NFL has boxed itself in with Vick because of the Jones suspension. I just don't have any fear that the NFL is heading toward the point where it would act on innuendo over substance, even if it didn't lead to criminal charges/convictions.

[DaddyTorgo]

You lost me here. Is this a joke, or what you see as a "slippery slope" possibility for the way the NFL is policing itself? Because to equate the legitimacy that Jones' arrests and Vick's ownership of property involved in a crime have with unsubstantiated rumors is not a valid comparison, quite obviously. The NFL is a long way from that, although I agree with your original point that the NFL has boxed itself in with Vick because of the Jones suspension. I just don't have any fear that the NFL is heading toward the point where it would act on innuendo over substance, even if it didn't lead to criminal charges/convictions.

i'm pretty sure it was a joke kodos.

[Ksyrup]

I'm not Kodos!

I figured it was a joke, but assumed from what came before it that it was meant to make a point. But maybe not. I guess I hope not!

[Kodos]

I spell Kodos K-O-D-O-S, not K-S-Y-R-U-P. :)

[Deattribution]

Even if Vick says he wasn't directly involved I don't know how a bunch of unemployed guys take care and purchase 70+ dogs. You're talking thousands of dollars a month for that many animals, heck it's already cost Surrey County $25,000 to house them.

I think he's deeply embedded in it, but at the very least he's a financial backer and had mild knowledge. The guy donated $10,000 to Va-tech, it's a nice gesture but says something about how he handles his money - theres no way he's dishing out 10-20 thousand dollars a month without any knowledge of what its for.

[DaddyTorgo]

kodos..ksyrup...i forgot who made the point...just knew it was one of you "k-boys"

and since you were both in the same thread, i got confused. my bad.

[DaddyTorgo]

Even if Vick says he wasn't directly involved I don't know how a bunch of unemployed guys take care and purchase 70+ dogs. You're talking thousands of dollars a month for that many animals, heck it's already cost Surrey County $25,000 to house them.

I think he's deeply embedded in it, but at the very least he's a financial backer and had mild knowledge. The guy donated $10,000 to Va-tech, it's a nice gesture but says something about how he handles his money - theres no way he's dishing out 10-20 thousand dollars a month without any knowledge of what its for.

*ding ding* winner

his posse wouldn't do crap without his knowledge either.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I believe the answer you are all looking for is this. The NFL will decide whether Vick the athlete generates more revenue than Vick the dog-fighter. That means not just ticket sales but everything -- merchandise, television. So, if the NFL believes that Vick's actions (including alone and in conjunction with othe players in an accumulation effect) gives someone pause to stop watching the NFL, stop buying that Falcons jersey, or stop buying tickets, then Vick will get suspended -- regardless of a conviction. It's their league afterall.

[Deattribution]

I think he has to be suspended a minimum of a game or two if this story developes any further in his direction - If Henry gets 8 games, and Pacman gets a season without being convicted of anything (yet) then I don't see how Vick walks without even a game or two suspension.

[st.cronin]

As always in these sorts of cases, what an athlete does off the field has zero impact on my ability to enjoy seeing the world's best at their craft do what they do. I usually have fun watching him, and would miss getting to see him if he gets suspended.



shurg

I can understand this, and to a certain extent we all participate in it. We know that many, if not most athletes are pretty miserable people.

The difference here is that when the behavior in question becomes as public as this has, wearing a Vick shirt or even cheering for him becomes in a way an endorsement of that behavior. Regardless of how you rationalize it, if you say you are rooting for Vick, you are saying dog-fighting is ok.

my $.02

[rkmsuf]

my $.02

You want change?

[st.cronin]

You want change?

No, I want pics of Alyson Stokke.

[Ksyrup]

No, I want pics of Alyson Stokke.

You owe me $.02.

[rkmsuf]

You owe me $.02.

what exactly were you doing on HipHop Boards or whatever it was?

[Ksyrup]

Copying the URL to that thread.

[rkmsuf]

Copying the URL to that thread.

nice

[Ksyrup]

I did a search for her name, found that link, saw the pics, masturbated with my homies, then pasted the URL here.

[rkmsuf]

I did a search for her name, found that link, saw the pics, masturbated with my homies, then pasted the URL here.

wurd

[BishopMVP]

You lost me here. Is this a joke, or what you see as a "slippery slope" possibility for the way the NFL is policing itself? Because to equate the legitimacy that Jones' arrests and Vick's ownership of property involved in a crime have with unsubstantiated rumors is not a valid comparison, quite obviously. The NFL is a long way from that, although I agree with your original point that the NFL has boxed itself in with Vick because of the Jones suspension. I just don't have any fear that the NFL is heading toward the point where it would act on innuendo over substance, even if it didn't lead to criminal charges/convictions.I do think there is potential for some slippery slope considering Jones suspension appears to be based at least partly on the bad publicity it generated rather than the actual criminality, but that was a joke.

On a semi-related note, has Tank Johnson's punishment been announced yet?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

For what it's worth, an informant places Vick at the dog fights:

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=124789&ran=28610&tref=po

Of course, this is far from conclusive evidence since we know nothing about the informant, but again, IF TRUE, this is not good for Mr. Vick.

[Crapshoot]

I just don't see the appeal of dog fighting, much like hunting (for food, I understand - for fun, not so much). Who takes pleasure in murdering something?

[Groundhog]

I just don't see the appeal of dog fighting, much like hunting (for food, I understand - for fun, not so much). Who takes pleasure in murdering something?

Ron Mexico, apparently.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Apparently, Clinton Portis thinks Vick is quite fine to be fighting dogs (from Profootballtalk.com):

"I don't know if he was fighting dogs or not, but it's his property, it's his dog," Portis told WAVY-TV. "If that's what he wants to do, do it."

As Portis spoke, Chris Samuels started laughing, and at one point raised his eyebrows with (as we interpret it) an "oh sh-t I can't believe he's saying this" look on his face.

"I think people should mind their business," Portis added.

No doubt I often felt the same about the wife and childbeater that lives down the road from me.

[Ksyrup]

You really have to wonder how many athletes from past eras would have shot themselves in the foot if they had a mic in their face everywhere they turned. These guys are so clueless, this has turned into an entertainment industry all to itself.

[stevew]

This whole case makes me wish I still lived in Norfolk(almost). WAVY-TV is possibly the most dramatic station ever, I imagine it would be unbelievable to what extent they will go for this story. I mean a dusting of snow would generate these fools to start a week long "Winter Blast 200X" campaign. The summer of Sharks was also hilarious(2001), and they got every single angle(except kurt) on the story until 9/11 happened.

[Ksyrup]

Animal control officer confident Vick was at fights

ESPN.com news services
<!-- promo plug -->
<!-- end promo plug -->

<!-- end story header --><!-- begin left column --><!-- begin page tools -->Updated: May 16, 2007, 2:03 PM ET


Michael Vick (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5448) has said that he was rarely at the Virginia house he owned where officials have found evidence of dog fighting and that he never took part in the practice. Investigators don't agree.

Kathy Strouse, the animal control coordinator for the City of Chesapeake in Virginia which is investigating the case at the Smithfield home, told Yahoo.com on Tuesday she has spoken with individuals who can "put Vick on that property" during matches.

Saying she is "very confident" that Vick will be tied directly to the dog fighting on the property, Strouse has challenged Surry County Commonwealth attorney Gerald Poindexter to bring charges.

"He [Poindexter] was at the home and saw the equipment that we seized," Strouse said. "When we were there, he said he had enough right there to issue an indictment. He didn't say who he would indict, but he said he had enough.

"Now, with what he has said, it makes you think, 'What in the world is going on in Surry County?' This certainly doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy about the Surry County attorney."

Strouse indicated that the individuals who place the Falcons quarterback at the scene have been reluctant to testify. In Virginia, dogfighting is a felony and punishable by up to five years in prison.

According to a report Wednesday on the Atlanta Journal Constitution's Web site, Poindexter will meet with Sheriff Harold Brown and investigators Monday to review evidence in the case.

A grand jury in Surry County is expected to convene Tuesday, but Poindexter told the newspaper it was unlikely a review of the evidence would be completed in time to submit it to the grand jury by Tuesday.

Poindexter has declined to reveal the status of the investigation or whether charges are likely.

"I don't try cases in the press," Poindexter told WVEC-TV, the ABC affiliate in Norfolk, Va. "Lawyers who do that are despicable.

"I'm not going to be a party to a witch hunt," Poindexter said, according to the Journal Constitution. "This [process] will not be driven by people who hate Michael Vick, love Michael Vick or people who love animals."

Police conducting a drug investigation at the end of April raided the Vick-owned house and reported finding dozens of dogs, some injured and emaciated. Investigators also discovered items associated with dog fighting, including veterinary supplies, blood-soaked carpeting, treadmills used for training and tools used to pry apart a dog's jaws.

When the story broke, Vick told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, "I'm never at the house. I left the house with my family members and my cousin. They just haven't been doing the right thing."

Since that time, a Web site was discovered that showed Vick's name was being used to promote dog breeding that specialized in rare pit bull terriers and "the highly intelligent and powerful Presa Canario."

Vick has reportedly entered a contract to sell the house, but reports regarding his involvement in the operation keep surfacing.

Sports Illustrated reported on its Web site on Thursday that two friends of Vick said the QB knew about the dog fighting operation at the home. WAVY-TV in Norfolk reported that clerks at a store near the property said Vick bought items such as syringes typically used in dog fighting.

The Humane Society has told the NFL that past and present players say that the league has a serious problem with animal abuse.

Vick has now been advised by his attorney to stop talking publicly about the case.

"It is still under investigation, and once it is over, we will talk about it. As of right now, I cannot talk about the situation," Vick said.

Surry County, meanwhile, is being taxed by the investigation. WVEC reported on Tuesday that boarding the animals confiscated from Vick's property is costing the county $25,000.

[Ksyrup]

I hadn't seen this particular discussion about the witnesses. Anyone know what came of Monday's supposed meeting?

[miked]

I hadn't seen this particular discussion about the witnesses. Anyone know what came of Monday's supposed meeting?

Arthur Blank's checkbook.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Apparently, a federal investigator from the Dept. of Agriculture (with jurisdiction over dog fighting) also attended the Monday meeting. Not good for Vick. Apparently, the local law enforcement might not be enough to save him. I believe a decision is expected in a couple of weeks.

[albionmoonlight]

Apparently, a federal investigator from the Dept. of Agriculture

I would venture a guess that most people would not pick this as the agency that might lead to their eventual ruin.

[stevew]

This is probably the only time ever I've been glad PETA was based in Norfolk.

[Ksyrup]

Vick bought syringes at a local store. Uh no, that wasn't for dog fighting, me and some guys were just shooting steroids into each other's butts!

[Bee]

The Humane Society has told the NFL that past and present players say that the league has a serious problem with animal abuse.


Is it just me or does this sentence make no sense.

[Ksyrup]

It makes sense. I think that's called rank hearsay, though.

[Greyroofoo]

Makes sense to me

[Surtt]

Apparently, Clinton Portis thinks Vick is quite fine to be fighting dogs (from Profootballtalk.com):

"I don't know if he was fighting dogs or not, but it's his property, it's his dog," Portis told WAVY-TV. "If that's what he wants to do, do it."

As Portis spoke, Chris Samuels started laughing, and at one point raised his eyebrows with (as we interpret it) an "oh sh-t I can't believe he's saying this" look on his face.

"I think people should mind their business," Portis added.

No doubt I often felt the same about the wife and childbeater that lives down the road from me.

I think Portis put a set of crosshairs on himself.
If this blows up on Vick the way it look like it will, He might have volunteered to be next.

[Ksyrup]

The difference is that it's not a crime to be a clueless moron with no understanding of right/wrong. Portis may have set himself up for being an easy PETA target and no longer a fan favorite, but none of this has anything to do with what Vick is alleged to have been a part of.

[JPhillips]

There's plenty of evidence that there is a dog fighting subculture in the NFL. Vick isn't the first guy facing charges and he won't be the last. If Vick gets charged this could really blow up in the NFL's face. How deep is Goodell willing to go?

[Fidatelo]

I guess I live a pretty sheltered life, I've never even imagined that people actually take part in dog fighting. It always seemed like something you'd see happening in the background whilst Steven Segal busted some rich Russian mob lord's ass over a coal furnace.

People are fucked up.

[Deattribution]

Portis IS a moron. Instead of giving a simple apology and saying it was a stupid comment he gets on the NFL network and says...


"I wasn't condoning dogfighting," Portis said. "Hunting is legal. You've got spearing sharks and 'The World's Greatest Catch' on TV. All those are animals. What I'm saying is that I don't think that issue is as big as they made it with the jail time and the consequences he's going to end up facing if proven guilty. Wait until it's proven to jump on the bandwagon.

"What I was saying was that there are bigger issues than what Michael Vick does on his own property. Now all of a sudden, I'm getting all the negativity, and I don't even have any dogs. I think the whole situation is blown out of proportion."

So he basically says the EXACT same thing with different words after knowing how stupid it was.

[Surtt]

The difference is that it's not a crime to be a clueless moron with no understanding of right/wrong. Portis may have set himself up for being an easy PETA target and no longer a fan favorite, but none of this has anything to do with what Vick is alleged to have been a part of.

I haven't a clue about how this will all play out.
But it seams between Goodell's get tough policy and PETA's Fanaticism there very well could be a witch hunt with Portis at the top of the list of people to be investigated. Even if he is not involved (a very big if, judging from his comments) he already has alienated a lot of fans and given football another black eye.

[st.cronin]

Portis IS a moron. Instead of giving a simple apology and saying it was a stupid comment he gets on the NFL network and says...




So he basically says the EXACT same thing with different words after knowing how stupid it was.

Was he dressed like P-Funk?

[Deattribution]

Was he dressed like P-Funk?

Actually he was wearing a sheep dog fur coat. ;)

[Ksyrup]

Portis IS a moron. Instead of giving a simple apology and saying it was a stupid comment he gets on the NFL network and says...

You gotta love the irony of Goodell having to put out fires being fanned by the TV arm of the NFL, though. C'mon! This is good stuff.

[JPhillips]

Southeast Jerome doesn't understand what all the fuss is about.

[Deattribution]

You gotta love the irony of Goodell having to put out fires being fanned by the TV arm of the NFL, though. C'mon! This is good stuff.

Tonight on the NFL Network

6:30 - Cruisin' for a bruisin' with Chris Henry

7:30 - Rainman the Pacman Jones Story

8:30 - Michael Vick : It's a dog eat dog world (with special narrator Clinton 'Be cool' Portis)

10:00 - Pros vs Cons - The Original Whizzinator vs Weed Be Gone featuring Ricky Williams

11:00 - From the archives OJ : It's not just a drink!

11:30 Pimp My Wife with Richard Seigler.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I actually have to give credit to the NFL for its network. This is not the first time they have delved into potential black eye stuff. They are always on the ball in terms of bringing up arrests and legal run-ins, etc. I'm not saying the NFL gives them a blank check, but there is certainly a lot of editorial freedom over there. But I think they have to do it, because once it becomes clear that is slanting the news drastically, it loses all credibility and nobody watches.

Edit: I'm talking about the Total Access and news break shows. Obviously, people are going to watch games, the combine, and the draft regardless.

[Radii]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2884063



Source: Vick 'one of the heavyweights' in dog fighting

He arrived at the hotel room, where our cameras were set up, in a T-shirt and jeans. "I'm nervous," he said, surveying our lights and camera equipment. "I've never done anything like this before."

Our confidential source said he's been involved in dog fighting for over 30 years. He's trained and fought -- by his estimation -- around 2,000 pit bulls and was poised to tell "Outside the Lines" about the time in 2000 when his dog squared off against a dog owned by someone he referred to as one of the "heavyweights" of the dog fighting world: Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick.

"He's a pit bull fighter," the source said of Vick. "He's one of the ones that they call 'the big boys:' that's who bets a large dollar. And they have the money to bet large money. As I'm talking about large money -- $30,000 to $40,000 -- even higher. He's one of the heavyweights."

On April 25, authorities raided a house in Surry County, Va., owned by Vick and reportedly found -- among other things -- 66 dogs (most of which were pit bulls), a dog-fighting pit, blood-stained carpets and equipment commonly associated with dog fighting. Vick was not at the scene and denied knowledge of dog fighting at the property. To this point, no charges have been filed against him. But questions about Vick and his possible connection to dog fighting linger.

This source -- who required anonymity as a condition of our interview -- has helped law enforcement by supplying information on dog fights that has led to dozens of felony arrests.

"I've fought dogs, I pitted them, I bred them and I've done everything with them," said the source of his three decades in dog fighting. He then went on to describe the scene from that night seven years ago, as he took his 42-pound dog into the pit (the area which dogs fight in) to face off against Vick's dog. He says Vick did not get into the pit, but had a member of his entourage handle his dog, while Vick placed bets with the 20 or so people in attendance.


"Then he started, you know, waving money," the source said. "He was betting with everybody ... He said he got $5,000. He said he's betting on his animal."

Although the source said he doesn't know how much Vick bet that night, he does recall the matches' outcome: Vicks' dog lost. He said Vick is known in the dog fighting community as "the man that comes with all the money" and his reputation is "[that] he brings a good dog and he's going to bet and he's going bring a nice sum of cash."

ESPN contacted Vick's agent, Joel Segal, who did not respond to the source's allegations.

In the U.S., dog fighting is considered a felony in every state except Wyoming and Idaho. Despite that fact, according to The Humane Society, it's estimated that somewhere between 20,000 - 40,000 people in this country take part in this multi-billion dollar industry.

"I believe that dog fighting is on the upswing," said John Goodwin, the deputy manager of the Animal Cruelty Campaign for The Humane Society. "And I believe that certain elements of the pop culture have glamorized dog fighting and glamorized big, tough pit bulls."

American pit bull terriers account for 99 percent of the species involved in dog fighting, and a pit bull puppy can cost as much as $5,000. An average dog fight carries a $10,000 purse.

So why would a professional athlete risk his reputation -- and a lifetime of financial security -- to do this? "For the thrill of it," said a member of the Professional Football Hall of Fame, who asked not to be identified. "It's like gambling, no different than when Michael Jordan drops $100,000 on a hole of golf."

There's no official data on just how many professional athletes may be associated with dog fighting today. Before the current investigation against Vick, in the past couple of years, only two professional athletes stand out as having been publicly linked to allegations of dog fighting: former NBA forward Qyntel Woods (who faced possible charges of dog fighting before pleading guilty to animal abuse in 2005) and former NFL running back LeShon Johnson, who pleaded guilty to three charges related to dog fighting, also, in 2005. Johnson is currently serving a five-year deferred sentence. But those players only scratch the surface of what Goodwin calls a 'subculture' of dog fighting among professional athletes.

"You know, it's very interesting that we have got a whole roster of names of professional athletes that we know are involved in dog fighting," Goodwin said. "Surely, not every single one has come to light; I bet not even 10 percent have come to light."

If that's true, one reason may have to do with the "Code of Silence" among dog fighters. The source said many matches take place on rural farms, with 'lookouts' stationed in the woods and down surrounding roads, up to eight miles away. He adds that sometimes, local sheriffs are paid off to look the other way -- that is, when they're not participating in the dog fights themselves. But with up to 200 people in attendance at any given match, how is it possible that a high-profile athlete can attend dog fights and never have word get out to the general public?

"Dog fighting is a very private thing," answers the source, who said that Vick was still involved in dog fighting as recently as last year. "It's all Pit Bull Men. It's close knit: you got your little boys, then you got your heavyweight boys. It's a completely different class ... And now [that] it's all over the media, and you have to keep it more private."

The source said he consented to our interview to change people's perceptions about dog fighting, because they have "the wrong idea" about it and should see "just one" match for themselves before judging it. "They'll let this other thing go -- what is it called? UFC [Ultimate Fighting Championship]?" he asked. "That is every bit as bad -- you know, that's terrible. But then you have thousands of people that cheer, rah, rah, and they really love that. You see guys get their heads busted, you know, and they get their arms messed up, their legs twisted almost off. But then they fuss over this here, is wrong."

When asked what he thinks people's reactions will be when they learn of his account of Vick's involvement in dog fighting, the source was nonplussed.

"They shouldn't be really upset, OK?" he said. "Because it's only just an animal. It's just a dog that is raised up. He's put out there, you know, and he's chained up, OK. And the time he gets a certain age, this dog is going to want to fight. It is bred in him, OK? He knows what he is and he's going to fight. Just take him off the leash, let him go."

"Dog fighting is illegal for a reason," Goodwin said. "It's a severe form of cruelty."

"The gameness that the dog fighters strive for -- and 'gameness' is the willingness to continue fighting, even in the face of extreme pain, even in the face of death -- is something that's bred into the dogs," Goodwin said. "There are pit bulls that have been bred away from the fighting lines that are perfectly socialized but the game bred dogs -- bred for fighting -- just have it bred in them, to want to kill any dog in front of them."

On Friday, Surry County Commonwealth Attorney Gerald Poindexter told The Associated Press that the investigation against Vick is "moving forward." When contacted by ESPN and asked for a response to the source's contention of Vick's involvement in dog fighting, Falcons spokesman Reggie Roberts responded via e-mail, "Michael was drafted by the Falcons in 2001. The allegations regarding him are still under investigation, and until we have facts related to the investigation, we are unable to respond further."

The NFL released this statement: "Dog fighting is cruel, degrading, and illegal. We support a thorough investigation into any allegations of this type of activity. Any NFL employee proved to be involved in this type of activity will be subject to prompt and significant discipline under our personal conduct policy."

While the NFL continues to monitor the Vick investigation, there's another group closely monitoring it as well … but for a different reason.

"Everybody in the dog world is worried about Michael Vick talking," the source said, shortly before leaving our interview room and heading back to work. "Michael Vick is making large money, he's making millions, OK? And if he has to tell on some people [to avoid prison time], I think he would tell … I don't put nothing past him."

Kelly Naqi is a reporter for Outside the Lines.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

If true, Vick should bend over and kiss his ass goodbye. He's the prize. No DA is offering him a no jail time deal to turn. It's the other way around.

[Maple Leafs]

If true, Vick should bend over and kiss his ass goodbye. He's the prize. No DA is offering him a no jail time deal to turn. It's the other way around.
You think? Would you rather get a bunch of easy convictions and claim you cracked the ring, or go up against Vick and his eight-figure defense team?

[larrymcg421]

You think? Would you rather get a bunch of easy convictions and claim you cracked the ring, or go up against Vick and his eight-figure defense team?

Depends on if you really want to crack the ring or if you want higher office.

[larrymcg421]

dola

Either way, Vick is toast. Even if he gets immunity, Gooddell is going to own his ass. He'll be suspended for a year at the minimum, possibly more. And unless Jimmy Johnson gets back into coaching, I don't know who would want to touch him after that.

[Groundhog]

GO FALCONS!!!!

[Groundhog]

dola, so I guess Vick is in the doghouse?

[Maple Leafs]

Depends on if you really want to crack the ring or if you want higher office.
Again, is nailing the local team's franchise QB to the wall really a great way to get votes? If anything, it seems like this could be the only wait to crack a dog fighting ring and lose popularity.

Either way, Vick is toast. Even if he gets immunity, Gooddell is going to own his ass.
Agree 100% there. Goodell is going to hang him.

[Blade6119]

And to think, they had one of the best backup QBs in the league

[Ksyrup]

Again, is nailing the local team's franchise QB to the wall really a great way to get votes? If anything, it seems like this could be the only wait to crack a dog fighting ring and lose popularity.

This particular case is centered in Virginia, not Georgia.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

You think? Would you rather get a bunch of easy convictions and claim you cracked the ring, or go up against Vick and his eight-figure defense team?

First, nailing the high profile guy is the prize. The publicity acts as deterrent to others. Second, letting the high profile guy get off doesn't look so good either. Third, it sounds like there are plenty of other witnesses (including the guy in the ESPN report) who can give them all the other information that is needed.

[Atocep]

I'll still be suprised if charges are ever brought on Vick. I think they'll go after the easy targets, as someone mentioned above.

[Atocep]

First, nailing the high profile guy is the prize. The publicity acts as deterrent to others. Second, letting the high profile guy get off doesn't look so good either. Third, it sounds like there are plenty of other witnesses (including the guy in the ESPN report) who can give them all the other information that is needed.

According to the media, they do have witnesses, they haven't had any witnesses that are willing to testify against him, though.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I'll still be suprised if charges are ever brought on Vick. I think they'll go after the easy targets, as someone mentioned above.

I believe just the opposite, especially with the Feds following this case closely. Either way, it's starting to get closer to a definite suspension, regardless of charges.

[st.cronin]

I've been surprised at the number of people I've talked to who have basically said exactly what Clinton Portis said. Of course, I live in New Mexico, the only state where cock fighting is legal.

[Swaggs]

Man, watching some of the footage of these dog fights is brutal for me. I cannot, for the life of me, see what is entertaining or enjoyable about seeing animals hurt each other. Hearing them whine when they are hurt is really pretty terrible for me.

If I was being considered for a jury for a case with animal cruelty like this, I'd probably have to disqualify myself because I'm pretty sure I'd have trouble being objective when it comes to animals.

[st.cronin]

Man, watching some of the footage of these dog fights is brutal for me. I cannot, for the life of me, see what is entertaining or enjoyable about seeing animals hurt each other. Hearing them whine when they are hurt is really pretty terrible for me.

If I was being considered for a jury for a case with animal cruelty like this, I'd probably have to disqualify myself because I'm pretty sure I'd have trouble being objective when it comes to animals.

Yeah, I saw some of that earlier today, and I actually feel somewhat damaged by the experience. Really sad stuff. :(

[Radii]

I pretty much can't stand dogs, but i couldn't watch that video that was in the ESPN article.


I also dislike Vick, but in a football sense, I'd rather see him fail on the field and laugh, this whole story is just terrible.

[st.cronin]

I thought of an appropriate punishment for Vick. NFL Commissioner issues a secret order to the referees saying that NO penalty will be called on any play involving Vick. No face mask, no personal foul, no roughing the passer, no late hit, nothing - whether on Vick, or on the defense.

The league should catch on in 1/4 of a season or so, and then it'll be open season on Vick. Should be fun to see how long he lasts.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Now there's an SI.com article with another person aware of Vick's dog fighting escapades. I don't see this ending well. I'm all for innocence first, and I will wait on this before passing judgment, but it's starting to be an increasing number of people who can pinpoint his participation in all of this. It's unlike the Duke situation where you had just one witness (the accuser). I mean people are coming out of the woodwork on this.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/05/29/vick0604/index.html

[Ksyrup]

I kinda expected this, since PETA or whoever it was early on said they had his name linked to this stuff. I discounted it some just because they would be the kind to take advantage of the situation for the good of their cause, but it would also backfire on them if they screwed with the reputation of a popular (and innocent) athlete.

[Karlifornia]

Lost in the shuffle is the important question:

WHAT DOES THIS DO TO VICK'S ROOKIE CARD?

[SFL Cat]

I hope Vick gets kicked out of the NFL on his a$$. I'm tired of star athletes thinking they are immune to these types of things just because they're good at playing a kid's game full-time.

[bulletsponge]

I hope Vick gets kicked out of the NFL on his a$$. I'm tired of star athletes thinking they are immune to these types of things just because they're mediocre at playing a kid's game full-time.

fixed

[SFL Cat]

I stand corrected, sir.

;)

[LloydLungs]

Of course, I live in New Mexico, the only state where cock fighting is legal.

My beloved state of Louisiana begs to differ on that one. I thought WE were the only ones. Geez.

[Swaggs]

Since a few of us were talking about this over the weekend, I noticed that, in the Sports Guy's chat today, Simmons said that he thought it was poor form to show actual footage of dog fighting on ESPN over the weekend and I agree.

[MrBug708]

Vick probably is going to piss off a lot of people if he rats them out to save his skin which is what he's gonna do IMO

[Atocep]

Since a few of us were talking about this over the weekend, I noticed that, in the Sports Guy's chat today, Simmons said that he thought it was poor form to show actual footage of dog fighting on ESPN over the weekend and I agree.

I believe that originally aired on Outside the Lines and its about the only show on ESPN that really doesn't pull any punches in its stories. I couldn't watch it, but I'm not suprised they showed it on that show. I am suprised, however, that they've continued to show it on Sportscenter since it originally aired.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

That article I posted said some of the fights between 2 dogs can last up to 4 hours. That is just pure evil/sickness there. I thought those fights would last a few minutes, but hearing that just absolutely sickens me even more. What a bunch of twisted f$cks. I have now decided if this comes out as I suspect, I will never watch a Falcons game with Vick playing again if he doesn't get permanently suspended (which he won't).

[st.cronin]

That article I posted said some of the fights between 2 dogs can last up to 4 hours. That is just pure evil/sickness there. I thought those fights would last a few minutes, but hearing that just absolutely sickens me even more. What a bunch of twisted f$cks. I have now decided if this comes out as I suspect, I will never watch a Falcons game with Vick playing again if he doesn't get permanently suspended (which he won't).

I agree he's not likely to get permanently suspended, and maybe not even suspended at all. But depending on what else comes out and how it plays, its conceivable that he could be sort of unofficially black-balled.

I can see a scenario where the Falcons may end up asking themselves "does it make sense for us to cut ties with this guy," and the answer is "yes." And then nobody else picks him up. This scenario is unlikely, but is made somewhat plausible because Vick has not been Peyton Manning on the field - even before all this, there were questions about his game.

[GrantDawg]

I kinda expected this, since PETA or whoever it was early on said they had his name linked to this stuff. I discounted it some just because they would be the kind to take advantage of the situation for the good of their cause, but it would also backfire on them if they screwed with the reputation of a popular (and innocent) athlete.


It was actually the Humaine Society. They are much more level headed than PETA, and makes his connection to this all the more believable.

[Eaglesfan27]

Since a few of us were talking about this over the weekend, I noticed that, in the Sports Guy's chat today, Simmons said that he thought it was poor form to show actual footage of dog fighting on ESPN over the weekend and I agree.


I do too. I couldn't stand to watch more than a few seconds before I changed the channel.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I am very glad I missed this footage.

[Kodos]

If he is guilty, I hope he pays an extremely heavy penalty. Jail time, end of career, civil suits, etc. Dogfighting is horrific. Anyone who gets entertainment out of inflicting suffering should have suffering inflicted on him.

[rkmsuf]

Tell me the Falcons play at Cleveland this season. Can we recast the schedule if not?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Nope.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Wow. Two articles from Profootballtalk.com. Florio is usually restrained in breaking news until he has a good source and confident in the info.

----------------------------------------------

In yet another stunning turn of events, the prosecutor who on Tuesday renewed suspicions that he's dragging his feet by scuttling a search warrant now says that he has evidence placing Falcons quarterback Michael Vick at the scene of dog fighting.

Reports WAVY-TV: "When asked, 'At this moment in time, do we have any evidence that puts Vick at dog fighting?' [Gerald] Poindexter replied, 'Yes.'"

Wow.

Of course, this comment is coming from a guy who said nine days ago that lawyers who try their cases in the press are despicable, and who thereafter suggested that there was insufficient evidence to link anyone to dog fighting on Vick's Virginia property.

Poindexter also provided further explanation for his decision not to proceed with a warrant that had been obtained by a member of the Sheriff's department, and approved by a magistrate.

"Deputy Brinkman made a mistake," Poindexter said. "He should have gotten some legal advice during the affidavit for the search warrant." Poindexter also explained that, if the search had later been deemed to be unconstitutional, subsequent searches might have been jeopardized, too.

WVEC-TV reported earlier in the day that Poindexter opted not to proceed with the warrant because investigators are now focused on informants who have reached out to law enforcement authorities.

"We have informants," Poindexter confirmed. "We have people who are volunteering to make those allegations [that Vick attended dog fights]."

Meanwhile, Vick remains silent. By the time his story ever comes out in a court of law, the court of public opinion will have long since condemned him.

------------------------------------------

A source with direct involvement in league management issues tells us that the NFL believes that Michael Vick had full knowledge of and involvement in the dog-fighting operation discovered last month at his property in Virginia.

Let's repeat that one.

A source with direct involvement in league management issues tells us that the NFL believes that Michael Vick had full knowledge of and involvement in the dog-fighting operation discovered last month at his property in Virginia.

Per the source, NFL Security has been investigating the situation actively, and the information that NFL Security has obtained has resulted in a belief at the upper reaches of the organization that Vick's past denial is untrue.

Another source with knowledge of the situation confirms that, at last week's ownership meetings in Nashville, discussions regarding conversations with NFL Security indicated the league's belief that the evidence points to a conclusion that Vick was actively involved in dogs fighting.

This disclosure explains a lot of things, in our view. It was after last week's ownership meetings that rumors percolated through the league that the Falcons are bracing for a suspension of Vick. It was also after these meetings that reports surfaced of NFL Security's offer of assistance to Surry County, Virginia investigators. And it was after these meetings that ESPN jumped into the fray with a fat-guy cannonball, airing claims from a witness with a shielded face and altered voice who says that Vick is a dog-fighting "heavyweight."

We still don't know whether Vick will ever be convicted. His wealth can purchase the best legal talent in the land, and it's not all that hard to weave reasonable doubt into any set of facts. But the irreparable damage to Vick's football career will be done the moment that charges are filed. We firmly believe that, once indicted, he promptly will be suspended, and the Falcons will eventually cut him.

Since the Raiders have drafted their quarterback of the future, the one team who might be interested in giving him a second chance would have no need for him.

Even if Vick somehow avoids an indictment, his marketability is now shot, and his image is forever tarnished. Plus, his decision to remain silent in the face of day after day of damaging revelations has put his reputation, we believe, beyond the point of no return.

In fact, Vick's best bet at this point might be to cop a plea, testify against others, enter rehab for whatever condition he says contributed to any antisocial behavior to which he admits, and then hope for redemption.

-------------------------------------

This is turning out to be a bad day for Mr. Vick. I wonder how much he likes his cousin whose suspected drug use brought the cops to the house in the first place.

[Atocep]

We firmly believe that, once indicted, he promptly will be suspended, and the Falcons will eventually cut him.


If the NFL wanted to take a hard-line stance on player conduct, couldn't they offer some sort of salary cap relief for teams that release players if they are convicted of a felony? I know they could try to terminate the contract based on a player conduct clause, but thats a potential huge fight with the Player's Association.

[Groundhog]

If the NFL wanted to take a hard-line stance on player conduct, couldn't they offer some sort of salary cap relief for teams that release players if they are convicted of a felony? I know they could try to terminate the contract based on a player conduct clause, but thats a potential huge fight with the Player's Association.

I suspect that offering salary cap relief would also cause a big spat with the Players Assoc.

[Crapshoot]

Wow. Two articles from Profootballtalk.com. Florio is usually restrained in breaking news until he has a good source and confident in the info.


Err- this I disagree with. They are good with news and updates, but they get awfully judmental on players/people they don't like who don't appear to live and die football. They actually bitched about the fact that Vick only gave $10,000 for the VT victims- What kind of dickhead does that?

[miami_fan]

If the NFL wanted to take a hard-line stance on player conduct, couldn't they offer some sort of salary cap relief for teams that release players if they are convicted of a felony? I know they could try to terminate the contract based on a player conduct clause, but thats a potential huge fight with the Player's Association.

That would fly in the face of the Comissioner's policy of holding teams accountable for the actions of their players.

[flere-imsaho]

Looks like the Prosecutor is gearing up:

Prosecutor: Vick linked to dogfighting

Posted: Thursday May 31, 2007 2:18AM; Updated: Thursday May 31, 2007 2:18AM

PORTSMOUTH, Va. (AP) -- Informants have come forward saying Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick was involved in dogfighting, a prosecutor investigating the case said.

Brown and Surry County Commonwealth's Attorney Gerald G. Poindexter told WAVY-TV of Portsmouth, Va., there is evidence linking Vick to dogfighting, which is a felony in Virginia.

"We have informants," Poindexter told the station in an interview Wednesday. "We have people who are volunteering to make those allegations."

The case began April 25 when police conducting a drug investigation raided the house Vick owned in rural Surry County and found dozens of dogs. They also found items associated with dog fighting, including a "pry bar" used to pry apart a dog's jaws.

No charges have been filed in the case.

Vick, a registered dog breeder, has blamed relatives for taking advantage of his generosity and insisted he's rarely at the house -- even though he's the owner. He has since sold the home.

Poindexter also told WAVY-TV that he has not yet executed a search warrant on the property because he didn't like the language of the warrant.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Looks like the Prosecutor is gearing up:

Good.

Cry havoc and let slip the hounds of law!

[Ksyrup]

The only thing worse than a prosecutor who tries a case in the press is a prosecutor who does so after saying that prosecutors who try cases in the press are "despicable."

Basically, he had no comment when he had no evidence to make public, but now that he's got something and feels confident, it's OK to let it fly.

[albionmoonlight]

The only thing worse than a prosecutor who tries a case in the press is a prosecutor who does so after saying that prosecutors who try cases in the press are "despicable."

Basically, he had no comment when he had no evidence to make public, but now that he's got something and feels confident, it's OK to let it fly.

QFT

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Err- this I disagree with. They are good with news and updates, but they get awfully judmental on players/people they don't like who don't appear to live and die football. They actually bitched about the fact that Vick only gave $10,000 for the VT victims- What kind of dickhead does that?

Yeah, I was talking about basic news/facts. That's all I was talking about. Not the editorializing.

[Karlifornia]

This has reality tv written all over it:

Coming this fall to Animal Planet "Animal Cops: Special Vicktims Unit"

[Ksyrup]

I hope the Falcons have a QB contingency plan for 2008...



Sheriff: QB will be charged if investigators can find evidence

<!-- end story header --><!-- begin left column --><!-- begin page tools -->Updated: June 6, 2007, 3:11 PM ET

<!-- end page tools --><!-- begin story body --><!-- template inline -->RICHMOND, Va. -- People have told investigators that Michael Vick (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5448) was involved in a dogfighting operation at a house he owns in Surry County, the sheriff said Wednesday, and Vick will be charged if investigators can find evidence backing those claims.

Sheriff Harold D. Brown, who is leading the investigation, said he hopes members of a task force that have been gathering evidence in the case can meet by sometime next week to see how credible the evidence is and how best to proceed. At least one of those informants wrote from a prison in South Carolina.

"People are saying that he was there, Michael Vick was at the residence, and that he was involved," Brown said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. "I don't want to get into details of the case right now, but that's what we're looking at. If he was there, then we're going to charge him, also."

Brown said the task force involves five or six people, including a representative of the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the Virginia State Police.

Vick, a registered dog breeder, has refused to comment directly about the case, saying his attorney "has advised me not to talk about the situation right now." Vick has claimed since the investigation started that he rarely visits the home, and he has blamed family members and others for taking advantage of his generosity.

"I know it's taking some time, but we're just being careful. We've got to make sure we've got everything in order and that the information that they're getting is reliable," Brown said. "It's frustrating because people want you to prosecute before you even get all the evidence.

"I tell them we don't solve a case in an hour, like they do on 'Law & Order.' We want to make sure that we've got everything together," Brown said.

On April 25, a search of the house owned by the Atlanta Falcons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=atl) quarterback and inhabited by his cousin, Davon Boddie, uncovered drug paraphernalia and 66 dogs in the backyard. A search warrant affidavit said some of the dogs were in individual kennels and about 30 were tethered with "heavy logging-type chains" buried in the ground.

The chains allowed the dogs to get close to each other but not to have contact, one of myriad findings on the property that suggested a dogfighting operation.

Others included a rape stand, used to hold non-receptive dogs in place for mating; an electric treadmill modified to be used by dogs; a "pry bar" used to open the clamped-down mouths of dogs; and a bloodied piece of carpeting the authorities believe was used in dog fights. Carpeting gives dogs traction in a plywood fighting pit.

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

[Radii]

Others included a rape stand, used to hold non-receptive dogs in place for mating;


Is this common in breeding type industries... I guess I'm thinking about show dogs or something, I dunno. I just find it a bit shocking and more than a little distrubing that there's a device that is actually called a "rape stand"

[Honolulu_Blue]

I hope the Falcons have a QB contingency plan for 2008...

Joey Harrington thinks the Falcons' current QB contingency plan is A-Okay!

http://uh2l.blogs.com/detroitessentials/images/joey_2

[Eaglesfan27]

Is this common in breeding type industries... I guess I'm thinking about show dogs or something, I dunno. I just find it a bit shocking and more than a little distrubing that there's a device that is actually called a "rape stand"


That stood out to me as well. This whole thing is so disgusting.

[Surtt]

I think Michael Vick's toast.


Federal authorities have taken control of the dogfighting investigation at a Virginia property owned by Falcons quarterback Michael Vick and the state prosecutor said it is likely that Vick has been targeted for charges.

hxxp://www.ajc.com/services/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/06/07/0608vick.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=21

[Fonzie]

Thank heavens Poindexter is off the case.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I think Michael Vick's toast.



hxxp://www.ajc.com/services/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/06/07/0608vick.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=21

Excellent news.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, Poindexter is pissed - he's blowing steam like McCoy on L&O when the Feds interfere or refuse to cooperate. And throwing comments out there about how they must be doing this because it's Vick and not because of the seriousness of the charges ain't going to make them any more friendly, either.

[wade moore]

Yeah, Poindexter is pissed - he's blowing steam like McCoy on L&O when the Feds interfere or refuse to cooperate. And throwing comments out there about how they must be doing this because it's Vick and not because of the seriousness of the charges ain't going to make them any more friendly, either.

I haven't read at on of the media stuff on the Vick case because dog-fighting disgusts me..

But, living so close to Surry and having close friends that live there - the rumors about Poindexter being corrupt are just running rampant locally around here.

[stevew]

It'd be hilarious if Joey actually had to start this year, and then went out and threw for like 3500 yards with a 2 to 1 td/int rate. Not going to happen, but I'm waiting for him to someday shock the world.

[albionmoonlight]

Whether you are famous or not, you NEVER want the Feds. to take over your criminal investigation. Federal prosecutors have three main things going for them that state prosecutors do not:

1.) An almost unlimited budget if they choose to use it.

2.) Unelected prosecutors who don't have to worry about local politics to the extent that a local DA does.

3.) Much harsher penalties, in general, for the same crimes--both on the books and in practice.

None of these things, of course, are said to denegrate local prosecutors, but they have to play the hand that they are dealt in terms of resources, etc.

[miked]

My lawyer buddy once told me the feds have like a 99% conviction rate on drug charges. They nearly always win.

[albionmoonlight]

My lawyer buddy once told me the feds have like a 99% conviction rate on drug charges. They nearly always win.

99% seems a bit high, but the feds really do almost always win drug cases.

The main reason for that is pretty simple, though. They don't take cases that they think that they might lose.

Drug crimes are (almost always) crimes at both the state and the federal level. The state prosecutor, however, has an obligation to investigate and prosecute all of the cases that are brought before him. He does not get to pick and choose. So, he has to go forward on cases where the evidence might have some holes in it, or where witnesses give conflicting testimony, etc.

The feds, on the other hand, can pick and choose what drug cases to take. So, at least in our district, they only take the ones that are complete slam dunks. It is rare that we defend a drug case that does not have both police witness testimony and a confession by the defendant.

My friend who works in the state DA's office confirms that that is how the Fed works. The US Attorney will take a cases\ from the state, hold it for a while while the Feds decide whether to prosecute it, and then give it back to the state if the case has any holes in it.

Cherry picking, in other words.

When you combine the cherry picking with the fact that drug cases are easy to prove--possession is not something likely to confuse a jury--95%+ would not suprise me.

I am not, of course, saying that federal prosecutors are no good. Quite the opposite, actually. I just wanted to point out that, as good as they are, they are not 99% good.

[Fonzie]

PFT is now reporting over 30 dog carcasses were found on Vick's property by the Feds. No major news organizations have picked this up yet, though.

From PFT.com:

MORE THAN 30 DOG CARCASSES FOUND ON VICK PROPERTY

ESPN Radio, by way of WVEC-TV, reports that nearly three dozen dog carcasses were found on property owned by Falcons quarterback Mike Vick in Surry County, Virginia during a Thursday search by federal authorities.

Also, Patrick Terpstra of WVEC reports that Surry County prosecutor Gerald Poindexter will continue with his own investigation into the case as the federal investigation proceeds.

Poindexter has toned down his remarks regarding the federal involvement in the case, which as of Thursday night contained some fairly inflammatory rhetoric. On Friday, Poindexter said merely that it was a "breach of protocol" for the feds to search the land without giving Poindexter advance notice.

We're also told that WAVY-TV reporter Mary Kay Mallonee said on Friday afternoon during Rick Ballou's show on 1010XL in Jacksonville that dog carcasses were indeed found on the property, and that federal investigators were happy with the results of the search.

All things considered, it's not a good outcome for Mr. Vick. The feds will come after him 100 times more aggressively than a part-time prosecutor in a rural county with 7,000 residents ever would or could, and the feds won't let go until the verdict and been entered and all appeals have been exhausted.

[Fonzie]

Oh, and Vick has canceled a football camp he was to host this summer. Scheduling conflict or something...

[wade moore]

Oh, and Vick has canceled a football camp he was to host this summer. Scheduling conflict or something...

Now that you mention it, he was supposed to be at the W&M Football Camp with Big Ben and Larry Fitzgerald... I wonder if that is what he cancelled? Would be interesting since Big Ben had to cancel last year because of his accident ;)..

[JonInMiddleGA]

99% seems a bit high, but the feds really do almost always win drug cases.

Pretty good call.

from http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/dcf/ptrpa.htm#prosecutions

Approximately 92% of drug defendants adjudicated during 2004 were convicted, compared to 76% during 1981. Twenty-nine percent of drug defendants convicted during 2003 were identified as noncitizens; more than half (56%) had at least one prior adult conviction.

Source: BJS Compendium of Federal Justice Statistics, 2003, NCJ 210299, October 2005, and Compendium of Federal Justice Statistics, 2004, NCJ 213476, December 2006.

[stevew]

PFT is now reporting over 30 dog carcasses were found on Vick's property by the Feds. No major news organizations have picked this up yet, though.

From PFT.com:

MORE THAN 30 DOG CARCASSES FOUND ON VICK PROPERTY

ESPN Radio, by way of WVEC-TV, reports that nearly three dozen dog carcasses were found on property owned by Falcons quarterback Mike Vick in Surry County, Virginia during a Thursday search by federal authorities.

Also, Patrick Terpstra of WVEC reports that Surry County prosecutor Gerald Poindexter will continue with his own investigation into the case as the federal investigation proceeds.

Poindexter has toned down his remarks regarding the federal involvement in the case, which as of Thursday night contained some fairly inflammatory rhetoric. On Friday, Poindexter said merely that it was a "breach of protocol" for the feds to search the land without giving Poindexter advance notice.

We're also told that WAVY-TV reporter Mary Kay Mallonee said on Friday afternoon during Rick Ballou's show on 1010XL in Jacksonville that dog carcasses were indeed found on the property, and that federal investigators were happy with the results of the search.

All things considered, it's not a good outcome for Mr. Vick. The feds will come after him 100 times more aggressively than a part-time prosecutor in a rural county with 7,000 residents ever would or could, and the feds won't let go until the verdict and been entered and all appeals have been exhausted.

I had read that they were searching for Carcasses in USA Today on Friday. But I was thinking surely he wasn't stupid enough to actually bury them on the property. Then i remembered he's Michael Vick, and his family is prone to bad decision making. I wonder if Brooks is involved as well(his cousin.) I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that the guy is a fucking animal.

[stevew]

No carcasses of yet.

WVEC DROPS CLAIM THAT 30-PLUS DOG CARCASSES WERE FOUND

Several readers have pointed out to us that WVEC-TV has dropped without explanation from its web site a statement that ESPN Radio has reported that nearly three dozen dead dogs were found on the property owned by Mike Vick in Surry County, Virginia.

Attention, WVEC: You can't just make a claim like that, drop it, and make no mention as to why you've done so.

We suspect that the error resulted from WVEC's interpretation of an interview of ESPN's Kelly Naqi during Friday's Dan Patrick Show on ESPN Radio. Naqi said that the suspicion was that up to 37 dogs were buried on the property. She never said that 37 dogs have been actually found there.

With that said, it's our understanding that WAVY-TV's Mary Kay Mallonee said during a Friday afternoon appearance with Rick Ballou on 1010XL in Jacksonville that dog carcasses were found on the property, and that investigators were happy with the outcome of the search.

[wade moore]

Good old Hampton Roads TV...

[Surtt]

Instant classic.

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW0dhh_Aj6A&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ewithleather%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ephtml

[Ksyrup]

Official declines comment on why authorities are on property

ESPN.com news services
Updated: July 6, 2007, 10:09 AM ET

<!-- end page tools --><!-- begin story body --><!-- template inline -->
SURRY, Va. -- A dozen cars and a U-Haul truck were parked Friday on property owned by Falcons quarterback Michael Vick (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5448) in what appeared to be a second federal raid of the site that has been the focus of a dogfighting probe.

A U.S. Department of Agriculture agent stationed at the gate had no comment, ESPN's Kelly Naqi reported.

Television station WVEC in Hampton Roads, Va., is reporting that an investigator told it that forensics crews are searching only for dog carcasses. It also reported that the Surry County Sheriff's Office is involved in the search.

The house is in the process of being sold by Vick, according to Naqi.

The USDA is the federal agency with oversight over treatment of domestic animals and investigates dog fighting allegations.

On June 7, federal law enforcement officials descended on a home owned by Vick armed with a search warrant that suggests they're taking over an investigation into the Falcons quarterback's possible involvement in dogfighting.

More than a dozen vehicles went to the home early that day and investigators searched inside before turning their attention to the area where officials found dozens of dogs in late April and evidence that suggested the home was involved in a dogfighting operation.

Surry County officials had secured a search warrant in late May based on an informant's information to look for as many as 30 dog carcasses buried on the property. The warrant never was executed because Commonwealth's Attorney Gerald G. Poindexter said he had issues with the way it was worded.

The results of that search have remained sealed.

At the time, Poindexter expressed surprise at why the federal government was involved.

"What is foreign to me is the federal government getting into a dogfighting case," Poindexter said. "I know it's been done, but what's driving this? Is it this boy's celebrity? Would they have done this if it wasn't Michael Vick?"

A day later, Poindexter said: "They launched a separate, independent federal investigation," Poindexter said of the government, which has had a representative involved in the local probe all along.

"We are just pursuing parallel investigations."

During an April 25 drug raid on the home Vick owns in the county, authorities seized 66 dogs, including 55 pit bulls, and equipment that suggested someone at the property was involved in a dogfighting operation.

A search warrant affidavit said some of the dogs were in individual kennels and about 30 were tethered with "heavy logging-type chains" buried in the ground. The chains allowed the dogs to get close to each other, but not to have contact, one of myriad findings on the property that suggested a dogfighting operation.

Others included a rape stand, used to hold non-receptive dogs in place for mating; an electric treadmill modified to be used by dogs; a "pry bar" used to open the clamped-down mouths of dogs; and a bloodied piece of carpeting the authorities believe was used in dog fights. Carpeting gives dogs traction in a plywood fighting pit.

Vick has claimed he rarely visits the home and was unaware it could be involved in a criminal enterprise. He also has blamed family members for taking advantage of his generosity. Vick's cousin, Davon Boddie, was living at the home at the time of the raids.

[Passacaglia]

The feds use U-Haul?

[Ksyrup]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 20px" vAlign=top width="99%">Feds Detail Dogfighting on Vick Property</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- headline end --><!-- date/author start --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2>http://www.breitbart.com/images/common/dot.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="99%">Jul 6 03:46 PM US/Eastern


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
SURRY (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=), Va. (AP) - Federal authorities have filed court documents outlining an alleged dogfighting operation at a property owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick as agents searched the property Friday. Vick is not named in the documents.

The documents filed in U.S. District Court (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=) in Richmond and obtained Friday by The Associated Press contain the address of the home that has been the center of the investigation.

According to the documents, dog fights (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=) have been sponsored by "Bad Newz Kennels" at the property since at least 2002. For the events, participants and dogs traveled from South Carolina (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=), North Carolina (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=), Maryland, New York, Texas and other states.
Members of the venture also knowingly transported, delivered and received dogs for animal fighting (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=), the documents state.

[MikeVic]

Heh, Poindexter.

[CraigSca]

We just got our kids a puppy and a rape stand from Bad Newz Kennels.

I had no idea they were involved in dogfighting!

[MikeVic]

We just got our kids a puppy and a rape stand from Bad Newz Kennels.

I had no idea they were involved in dogfighting!

Way to support dog fighting. ;)

What's a rape stand?

[CraigSca]

Way to support dog fighting. ;)

What's a rape stand?

From the article above: "Others included a rape stand, used to hold non-receptive dogs in place for mating."

[MikeVic]

From the article above: "Others included a rape stand, used to hold non-receptive dogs in place for mating."

Oops, thanks. I've never heard of that before.

[Ksyrup]

Oops, thanks. I've never heard of that before.

You're not alone on that, thankfully.