Seeding MLB Franchises

[Scholes]

I'm making a promotion/relegation league in Diamond Mind Baseball with franchise all-star teams. I have a general idea of where to start them, but I thought I'd solicit some advice from the masses. Here's what I have so far:

Premier League
Philadelphia Phillies
New York Yankees
Detroit Tigers
Boston Red Sox
Oakland Athletics
San Francisco Giants
Los Angeles Dodgers
St. Louis Cardinals

Platinum League
Pittsburgh Pirates
Chicago Cubs
Chicago White Sox
Cincinnati Reds
Atlanta Braves
Baltimore Orioles
Cleveland Indians
Minnesota Twins

Gold League
Montreal Expos
Milwaukee Brewers
New York Mets
San Diego Padres
Houston Astros
Toronto Blue Jays
California Angels
Kansas City Royals
Texas Rangers
Seattle Mariners

The newer expansion teams (Colorado, Florida, Tampa, Arizona) will be a part of a draft at the end of a season. Any thoughts on how they're placed? Thanks in advance for any advice.

[lighthousekeeper]

So are you assigning real players to teams based on the team they played for in real life? If so, how do you decide for players that spanned multiple teams? Who does Griffey Jr. play for?

Those kind of decisions would affect the seeding.

[Scholes]

Players are put on the team that they had their best years with, although there were a few adjustments to fill rosters/balance some things. For instance, Griffey is with Seattle, A-Rod is on Texas, Piazza is on LA, etc.

Also, I should say that San Francisco is actually New York/San Fran Giants, Oakland is Philadelphia/Oakland A's, Minnesota/Washington Twins, etc.

[DeToxRox]

Well, Detroit will be an old school team ha. But I do agree with the seeding. Good work.

[Travis]

I'd say if Toronto is getting the best of the best they've had, they could be bumped up a bit. Positionally and their bullpen will be great, and rotation wise they'll hold their own against most teams. Could handle Platinum out of the gate.

[molson]

A lot of this would depend on how historic players are balanced against each other.

An argument can definitely be made for the Pirates to be bumped, if only because they have the largest pool of players to draw from. But how would say, Honus Wagner stand up in this type of league?

[lighthousekeeper]

Players are put on the team that they had their best years with, although there were a few adjustments to fill rosters/balance some things. For instance, Griffey is with Seattle, A-Rod is on Texas, Piazza is on LA, etc.

Also, I should say that San Francisco is actually New York/San Fran Giants, Oakland is Philadelphia/Oakland A's, Minnesota/Washington Twins, etc.

Which team did these guys go to:

Wade Boggs
Roger Clemens
Fred McGriff

What do you do in a case where a player isn't good enough to make the all-time team for his primary team but would be good enough to make his secondary team? (I'm thinking McGriff)



Regarding your seeding, I wonder if the Phillies all-time team is worthy of the top tier. People could argue that they could swap places with the Reds.

[lighthousekeeper]

A lot of this would depend on how historic players are balanced against each other.

An argument can definitely be made for the Pirates to be bumped, if only because they have the largest pool of players to draw from. But how would say, Honus Wagner stand up in this type of league?

Thought the same thing. With Honus Wagner, Paul Waner, Stargell, Clemente, Kiner, Bonds (?)...they'd have a pretty solid lineup. But their pitching just wouldn't be top-tier material. Who's their ace: Doug Drabek?

[Big Fo]

Warren Spahn and Phil Niekro to join forces with Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz :cool:

[rowech]

My question would be are you doing top franchises or top teams? I think there might be a difference. I don't see the Reds being inferior to the Phillies or the Tigers.

[lynchjm24]

Under what criteria does Philadelphia end up in the top league. They have a god awful history. The A's or the Phillies.

[Young Drachma]

I'd say if Toronto is getting the best of the best they've had, they could be bumped up a bit. Positionally and their bullpen will be great, and rotation wise they'll hold their own against most teams. Could handle Platinum out of the gate.

Agreed. From 1983 to 1993, one of the best teams in baseball. Worst season during that stretch were two 86-win seasons. I'll take that anyday.

[lighthousekeeper]

Twins/Senators could have rotation of:
Walter Jonhson, Johan Santana, Blyleven, Kaat

with positional players of: Rod Carew, Killebrew, Puckett, Oliva, ... guess it drops off pretty steeply after that.

You definitely have to post your rosters when your ready to start, so we can debate over your selections.

[Grammaticus]

Which team did these guys go to:

Wade Boggs
Roger Clemens
Fred McGriff

What do you do in a case where a player isn't good enough to make the all-time team for his primary team but would be good enough to make his secondary team? (I'm thinking McGriff)



Regarding your seeding, I wonder if the Phillies all-time team is worthy of the top tier. People could argue that they could swap places with the Reds.

Agree, Reds up and Phillies down

[Scholes]

After looking at it some more, those saying the Phillies should be in the Platinum have a point. Although, there are a few teams that could switch with them. I'll post the teams/lineups in a bit. I've done the Angels and the Braves so far, and the Braves may have a claim to the Premier League:

Rotation: Spahn, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz (Sain spot starter)
Bullpen: Camp, Garber, Wohlers, K. Nichols

Most common lineup:

1: Duffy cf
2: Carty lf
3: Mathews,E 3b
4: Aaron 1b
5: Murphy rf
6: Evans dh
7: Lopez c
8: Johnson 2b
9: Sweeney ss

Bench players A. Jones, C. Jones, W. Berger, J. Adcock, J. Blauser, D. Crandall

A potential problem is that everyone with the exception of Mathews bats right-handed, and the bullpen is suspect, but then again so are a lot of teams'.

[Scholes]

Cincinnati's lineup/rotation:

Rotation: Luque, Hahn, Gullett, D. Jackson
Bullpen: Eastwick, Bair, Franco, Dibble, Derringer

Most common lineup:

1: Morgan 2b
2: Rose rf
3: Davis lf
4: Kluszewski 1b
5: Perez 3b
6: Bench c
7: Foster dh
8: Larkin ss
9: Pinson cf

Bench players include E. Lombardi, J. Daubert, D. Concepcion, K. Griffey Sr., H. Groh and Bid McPhee

The lineup is stacked, that much is certain. The pitching though, especially the rotation, leaves a bit to be desired.

I did Boston a little earlier. Their rotation is Clemens, Cy Young, P. Martinez and Smokey Joe Wood.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Rotation: Spahn, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz (Sain spot starter)
Bullpen: Camp, Garber, Wohlers, K. Nichols

Most common lineup:

1: Duffy cf
2: Carty lf
3: Mathews,E 3b
4: Aaron 1b
5: Murphy rf
6: Evans dh
7: Lopez c
8: Johnson 2b
9: Sweeney ss

Bench players A. Jones, C. Jones, W. Berger, J. Adcock, J. Blauser, D. Crandall


Umm ... Why is Rabbit Maranville not the SS? HOF'er after all and played most of his career & his best seasons with the Braves.

Also, I'm wondering whether the catcher is Javy Lopez or if that's HOF'er Al Lopez. The latter did play for the Braves for a few seasons but was only an All-Star twice, once for Brooklyn & once for Pittsburgh, never with the Braves. I think there's probably a good argument for Crandall to be the starter (8x A-S) or Joe Torre, unless you've put him with the Cardinals.

Also, I think Johnny Logan probably belongs ahead of Blauser, Lew Burdette far far ahead of Rick Camp (and probably Cecil Upshaw & John Rocker ahead of Camp too).

[Scholes]

Good call on Maranville. He wasn't in this roster set, but I found him and imported him from the All-Time Greatest Players disk. Although his lifetime .258/.318/.340 isn't exactly burning anyone's doors down, he had some good individual seasons that I can use. He takes over at short, Sweeney to the bench and Blauser to the farm.

I forgot to include Rocker, he is part of the bullpen. It has Burdette listed as a starter only and there wasn't any room for him there, but looking at his Baseball Reference page I see that he did come on in relief enough to warrant at least a long relief spot. Lopez is Javy Lopez. Thanks for the info.

[Fouts]

:) Cincinnati's lineup/rotation:

Rotation: Luque, Hahn, Gullett, D. Jackson
Bullpen: Eastwick, Bair, Franco, Dibble, Derringer

Most common lineup:

1: Morgan 2b
2: Rose rf
3: Davis lf
4: Kluszewski 1b
5: Perez 3b
6: Bench c
7: Foster dh
8: Larkin ss
9: Pinson cf

Bench players include E. Lombardi, J. Daubert, D. Concepcion, K. Griffey Sr., H. Groh and Bid McPhee

The lineup is stacked, that much is certain. The pitching though, especially the rotation, leaves a bit to be desired.

I did Boston a little earlier. Their rotation is Clemens, Cy Young, P. Martinez and Smokey Joe Wood.

Frank Robinson? And where is Chris Sabo!!! ;)

[Scholes]

Frank is on Baltimore, where he played his two best seasons, in 66 and 69. Sorry, Spuds didn't make the cut I guess. ;)

[JPhillips]

Cincinnati's lineup/rotation:

Rotation: Luque, Hahn, Gullett, D. Jackson
Bullpen: Eastwick, Bair, Franco, Dibble, Derringer

Most common lineup:

1: Morgan 2b
2: Rose rf
3: Davis lf
4: Kluszewski 1b
5: Perez 3b
6: Bench c
7: Foster dh
8: Larkin ss
9: Pinson cf

Bench players include E. Lombardi, J. Daubert, D. Concepcion, K. Griffey Sr., H. Groh and Bid McPhee

The lineup is stacked, that much is certain. The pitching though, especially the rotation, leaves a bit to be desired.

I did Boston a little earlier. Their rotation is Clemens, Cy Young, P. Martinez and Smokey Joe Wood.

I'd put one of Gary Nolan, Jose Rijo or Mario Soto in place of Jackson, who really doesn't belong on an all-time team. In the bullpen I'd sub Clay Carroll for Bair. I'm assuming Frank Robinson is an Oriole, but you should at least look at that. He played ten seasons with Cincy and put up great numbers for the era. You can move Perez or Big Klu to the bench and ditch Daubert. Adam Dunn probably deserves a spot more than Griffey Sr. and based on OBP and SLG may deserve to start.

Good luck. This sounds like a fun project.

[rowech]

I'd put one of Gary Nolan, Jose Rijo or Mario Soto in place of Jackson, who really doesn't belong on an all-time team. In the bullpen I'd sub Clay Carroll for Bair. I'm assuming Frank Robinson is an Oriole, but you should at least look at that. He played ten seasons with Cincy and put up great numbers for the era. You can move Perez or Big Klu to the bench and ditch Daubert. Adam Dunn probably deserves a spot more than Griffey Sr. and based on OBP and SLG may deserve to start.

Good luck. This sounds like a fun project.

Soto and Rijo should definitely be in that rotation.

[Grammaticus]

Cincinnati's lineup/rotation:

Rotation: Luque, Hahn, Gullett, D. Jackson
Bullpen: Eastwick, Bair, Franco, Dibble, Derringer

Most common lineup:

1: Morgan 2b
2: Rose rf
3: Davis lf
4: Kluszewski 1b
5: Perez 3b
6: Bench c
7: Foster dh
8: Larkin ss
9: Pinson cf

Bench players include E. Lombardi, J. Daubert, D. Concepcion, K. Griffey Sr., H. Groh and Bid McPhee

The lineup is stacked, that much is certain. The pitching though, especially the rotation, leaves a bit to be desired.

I did Boston a little earlier. Their rotation is Clemens, Cy Young, P. Martinez and Smokey Joe Wood.

You could consider Walters and Soto for the rotation. Jackson just does not seem like he belongs.