April Console Sales #'s.

[SirFozzie]

Nintendo DS 471k
Wii 360k
PlayStation 2 194k
PlayStation Portable 183k
Xbox 360 174k
Game Boy Advance 84k
PlayStation 3 82k
GameCube 13k

Top 10 U.S. Software Items- April 2007 Units
NDS POKEMON DIAMOND VERSION NINTENDO OF AMERICA APR 2007 EVERYONE (E) 1.045 M
NDS POKEMON PEARL VERSION NINTENDO OF AMERICA APR 2007 EVERYONE (E) 712K
WII SUPER PAPER MARIO NINTENDO OF AMERICA APR 2007 EVERYONE (E) 352K
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE NINTENDO OF AMERICA FEB 2007 EVERYONE (E) 249K
360 GUITAR HERO 2 W/ GUITAR ACTIVISION MAR 2007 TEEN (T) 197K
PS2 GUITAR HERO 2 W/GUITAR ACTIVISION NOV 2006 TEEN (T) 142K
360 SPIDER-MAN 3 ACTIVISION APR 2007 TEEN (T) 117K
PS2 SPIDER-MAN 3 ACTIVISION APR 2007 TEEN (T) 105K
PS2 GOD OF WAR II SONY MAR 2007 MATURE (M) 101K
PS2 MLB '07: THE SHOW SONY FEB 2007 EVERYONE (E) 79K


Japan Hardware sales for 5/7-5/13
DSL 163,785
Wii 52,544
PSP 34,433
PS2 10,414
PS3 8,839
Xbox360 2,105
GBM 408
GBASP 343
GC 315
DS 39
GBA 18


The gap seems to be WIDENING, not closing.

6-1 Wii in Japan? and 4.5-1 Wii in America? Is this a major stumble by PS3? (yes, the PS2 #'s are still strong, though)

[sabotai]

Only 82,000 PS3 units sold? I don't think there is a way you can really explain how bad that is. It's just....bad. I know that April is another historically low month for console sales, but the PS3 is now officially putting up original XBox sales numbers.

And I think the 174k for the XBox 360 is the lowest 1 month units sales figure for them as well, so they're not exactly doing all that great either.

[SirFozzie]

and 194K PS2's. Yes, the PS2 is so very much cheaper.. but one of my non FOFC friends who I copied those #'s to asked me if it was a sign that people are rejecting the next gen for current gen

[twothree]

It's good to be Nintendo. I hope these hardware sales numbers help put more original/quality third party games on the Wii like they have for the DS.

[Izulde]

The problem is that the PS3 lacks a killer exclusive, in my opinion. If you can get an exclusive that's a must-get for a lot of people, the price point isn't nearly as much an issue.

[kingfc22]

The PS3 is getting PWND

[sooner333]

I mean, is there much upside for PS3 exclusives in the near-future? I haven't been following things too closely, but it would seem to me that the best exclusive coming up this year would be Halo 3, at least in terms of getting new consoles off the shelves.

[Groundhog]

The problem is that the PS3 lacks a killer exclusive, in my opinion. If you can get an exclusive that's a must-get for a lot of people, the price point isn't nearly as much an issue.

I don't know if there are more games out in the States than over here in Australia for the PS3, but I was looking in EB Games a few days ago and saw absolutely nothing that would make me want a PS3. There's what, that moto racing game, and an F1 game? That's about it.

[14ers]

Here is some good news for PS3 owners.
Blu-ray sales reach 1 million milestone

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Matt Martin 09:57 (BST) 24/04/2007
70 per cent of hi-def movie sales on Blu-ray in 2007


Sales of Blu-ray discs have reached one million in less than a year, according to the Blu-ray Disc Association.

Blu-ray discs also accounted for 70 per cent of high-definition movie sales in the first quarter of 2007, with three in every four hi-def movies sold in March on the next-gen format.

"Sales of Blu-ray disc titles have taken off since the first of the year," commented Andy Parsons, chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association.

"Blu-ray discs have been outselling HD-DVD by more than two to one since the beginning of the year and the gap is steadily widening."

[Karlifornia]

I haven't been following, but I hear that it's just a matter of time before PS3 starts dominating the XBOX, but that the WII is a wildcard...any of that close to the truth?

[Big Fo]

It'll be interesting to see who has a price drop first, Microsoft or Sony.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

and 194K PS2's. Yes, the PS2 is so very much cheaper.. but one of my non FOFC friends who I copied those #'s to asked me if it was a sign that people are rejecting the next gen for current gen

That appears to be the case at this point. The 360 and PS3 are both getting a big old middle finger from the consumers at this point. The PS3 and the 360 simply aren't selling. The PS2 and Wii are flying off the shelves. I think Sony and MS are getting a big dose of market forces reality at this point. They're both going to have to make some big moves around October to give consumers a reason to buy the consoles as they head into the holidays.

[stevew]

A developer could make a ton of money right now developing for the Wii/PS2 platform, and porting them over(and vice versa). Obviously a game custom built for the Wii would be a lot better, but it wouldn't be too hard to add some motion control to already developing titles. I wonder how long the PS2 will remain viable, it could be for a lot longer than we would think.

[TroyF]

Only 82,000 PS3 units sold? I don't think there is a way you can really explain how bad that is. It's just....bad. I know that April is another historically low month for console sales, but the PS3 is now officially putting up original XBox sales numbers.

And I think the 174k for the XBox 360 is the lowest 1 month units sales figure for them as well, so they're not exactly doing all that great either.

Things are getting ugly for Sony. Really ugly.

While MS is making a ton of mistakes as well and hurting themselves everytime, they have two things going for them.

1) They are making a profit on each of those 174k worth of sales.
2) This part is critical to remember: They didn't expect to beat the PS3 this go around. Their goal is only to decrease the Sony market share and make inroads. In Japan they are failing miserably with that. Everywhere else, they are doing better than they could have ever hoped.

Sony thought by now this console war wouls be over. Instead they are getting beat by the 360 at a 3 to 1 ratio and Nintendo is up over 2 to 1. And Sony is losing tons of money on every PS3 sold at this point. Tehy hoped to be making that up in software sales.

Every month the slaughter continues, even if it is only less than 100k win for MS, is another month that it's going to make it difficult for Sony to ever catch up.

And the bigtime exclusives are still in the favor of MS throughout the rest of the year. Shadowrun, Forza, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Halo 3. . . the list of exclusive A+ titles is staggering.

MLB is one hell of a game, but it aint saving the PS3. They need to get Lair and any other exclusive game they can get out stat.

[Butter]

PS3 needs to cut their prices.

If Microsoft was smart, they'd cut their prices first and widen the gap to try and finish Sony off. But, let's face it, they are Microsoft, so ego comes first and smarts second.

[Ksyrup]

I bought a PS2 last year. I'm a casual gamer. We only own maybe 6 games, and a couple of those are just for the kids. There was, and still is, no reason for us to spend so much money on a gaming system that I only use occasionally. I hope these sales numbers extend the life of the PS2, though, so that we get more new games for a bit longer. But at this point, with Guitar Hero and NCAA Football 07, I'm pretty much set.

I chose the PS2 strictly on price and game choices. I don't really care about cutting edge graphics. Of course, I don't care about whatever motion crap the Wii offers, either.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sony thought by now this console war would be over.

Interesting. I hadn't seen any analysts or Sony comments that indicated that they thought even last fall that the console war would be over by this point in time. Would love to read those articles if you have time to track them down.

As bad as Sony is doing month-to-month right now, it's even more shocking that this console war is still far from over. Here's the comment from NPD's Anita Frasier, who is involved with the market analysis of the actual numbers......

"Undoubtedly the sales results are not encouraging to date, but I for one am not counting out the PS3," she said. "While there has been good content available for the platform, there hasn't yet been the 'killer' title that tends to drive hardware sales acquisition among the broader audience. As the content ramps up, I'm confident the hardware sales will too. Rather than revisit this each and every month, particularly as we head into traditionally slower months of the year, I think we should really wait to see what the picture looks like in 6 months. Everything will be much clearer then."

Her comment is very similar to what EF27 and I had discussed in another thread. If we get to Christmas and Sony hasn't made some kind of a move with some major games or a price cut, that's the time to start worrying.

[TroyF]

Interesting. I hadn't seen any analysts or Sony comments that indicated that they thought even last fall that the console war would be over by this point in time. Would love to read those articles if you have time to track them down.

As bad as Sony is doing month-to-month right now, it's even more shocking that this console war is still far from over. Here's the comment from NPD's Anita Frasier, who is involved with the market analysis of the actual numbers......



Her comment is very similar to what EF27 and I had discussed in another thread. If we get to Christmas and Sony hasn't made some kind of a move with some major games or a price cut, that's the time to start worrying.

But how are they going to make a move? What signs are there that they are going to start dominating at Christmastime?

They are in huge trouble.

[Greyroofoo]

Does anyone find it interesting that the 360 version of Guitar Hero 2 outsold the PS2 version? Ditto with spiderman

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

But how are they going to make a move? What signs are there that they are going to start dominating at Christmastime?

There's no signs at this point. That's the reason I stated that they have to make a move by October. Judging from the comments of the NPD rep, they're looking for a similar move and are expecting exactly that. Obviously that move has to be a price cut and/or a major push of content to jump-start the console.

Honestly, it makes no sense to make the price cut now during the slow sales period. Fall would be a much better time to do that. If they cut the price now, the buzz over the cut would likely wear out by the time the holiday season came around. That probably isn't something that gamers want to hear, but from a marketing and economic standpoint, it's a better move to hold off a few months on a price cut. A price cut now would only move an additional 30-40K units a month. A price cut in the fall at the start of the holiday season could net a much greater boost of console sales.

[Richard Weed]

But how are they going to make a move? What signs are there that they are going to start dominating at Christmastime?

They are in huge trouble.
I am by no means a Sony fanboy, but how can you make this statement? This is a marathon, not a sprint. The PS3 hasn't been released for a year and you're saying they're in huge trouble. Likewise, while the Wii has an ever-widening gap, they're still not out of the woods yet.

Microsoft may be stumbling with their Vista Live Gold packages and I think that's a mistake, but the 360 is steady for them. It's an acceptable Walk at this point.

[Eaglesfan27]

Does anyone find it interesting that the 360 version of Guitar Hero 2 outsold the PS2 version? Ditto with spiderman


Yep, I found that interesting. I also agree with Troy's post. Sony is digging themselves too deep of a hole and microsoft has a much better lineup over the next 6-8 months. Sony needs to cut the price ASAP (and I've read articles of some analysts who think they will be cutting prices within the next month or two.)

[Richard Weed]

Funny story overheard in EB Games:

Customer: So nothing good is coming out this summer.
Manager: Yeah, everything good is coming out this fall: Halo 3, GTA 4, etc.
Customer: They should release Halo 3 in June.
Manager: Halo always comes out in September.

[Fidatelo]

PS3 is done like dinner. These problems will continue to snowball; the perception of the system among the general consumer is that it is over-priced and, almost more importantly, the 'loser' of this generation.

The only advantage PS3 has over 360 is Blu-ray, and anyone who really cares about that has already bought one. 360's advantage is Live, and that is far more important to your average gamer.

I'm also a little skeptical on the "all it needs is a killer exclusive" argument. When a system is $200-300 I can see a single game potentially convincing people to buy it. But at $600? You throw the game in there and you're at close to $700 to play one game. I think the PS3 will need not just a killer exclusive, but 2-3, or at least the promise that several more killers will be coming, and I don't think they will be able to provide that.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yep, I found that interesting. I also agree with Troy's post. Sony is digging themselves too deep of a hole and microsoft has a much better lineup over the next 6-8 months. Sony needs to cut the price ASAP (and I've read articles of some analysts who think they will be cutting prices within the next month or two.)

A pricing move in the next month or two would be fine for consumers (who doesn't like cheaper), but I'm not sure it does much for Sony unless they back it up with a further cut near the holidays or drop some big title releases during the holiday season. Dropping the price in June or July just merely allows them to indirectly admit their release mistakes. It doesn't save the console by any means.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

360's advantage is Live, and that is far more important to your average gamer.

I'm not sure there is a more overhyped 'advantage' than Xbox Live. The PS3 has shown that the online gaming experiece can be just as good as Live for $50 less a year. Some might say the interface in the marketplace is better. I'd argue that if you bought a console to hang around in either MS's or Sony's marketplace (or the Internet), you might as well have spent your money on a laptop computer, not a console. The amount of time that a gamer spends using that interface is very limited.

Having played a couple of games online on both the 360 and PS3, IMO Resistance and Motorstorm offer an online gaming experience on par with anything you'd find on Live. With some of the updates, the online game in Resistance is one of the best available. Obviously, most people don't know that because most people don't own a PS3, but that doesn't change the actual experience. Halo 3 will be interesting to see if they can provide as good of an online experience as Resistance.

Also, in reference to the 'average gamer' tag you used, the 'average gamer' doesn't even play games online. Don't let the figures around Live and the PS3 fool you when they say that '70% of gamers are online' or other similar statements. 70% of gamers don't play games online. A lot of those people are only on to get system updates or buy games for their system's "virtual console".

[stevew]

What do you guys consider the "sweet spot" for PS3 pricing? Like around 300 bucks?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

What do you guys consider the "sweet spot" for PS3 pricing? Like around 300 bucks?

Let's assume that MS drops the Core console completely, drops the Premium box to $299 and drops the Elite box to $399. I think with the Blu-ray player being in the box, Sony could get away with a $399 price point. That would be a situation where the purchaser is paying only $100 more to get a HD media player and wireless built-in. Anything more than that assuming that MS drops their price structure in the fall would be awfully hard to swallow.

[Eaglesfan27]

Let's assume that MS drops the Core console completely, drops the Premium box to $299 and drops the Elite box to $399. I think with the Blu-ray player being in the box, Sony could get away with a $399 price point. That would be a situation where the purchaser is paying only $100 more to get a HD media player and wireless built-in. Anything more than that assuming that MS drops their price structure in the fall would be awfully hard to swallow.


Agreed. I think 400 is right about the sweet spot for pricing and would be enough of a price drop for me to get one this Christmas. However, I suspect they are going to try to get away with 500 which I think would be a mistake.

[moriarty]

This maybe a marathon not a sprint, but comparing the PS3 numbers to the PS2 numbers at this point in it's release ... well, the forecast isnt' encouraging. I'm starting to think the PS3 is just too hard to program for (why else is there such a lack of good games, and even games that cross platform havent' played as well on the PS3).

I still can't figure out who the hell are all these people still buying PS2's.

I agree with whomever said Microsoft should drop the price first and really put the squeeze on Sony. Microsoft should be smelling blood here, and they don't seem hungry for it.

[Ksyrup]

People like me are buying PS2s. People who want a gaming system, don't want to spend a lot for it, and can't justify spending $300-600 for a system that we'll probably play only occasionally and have a small collection of games for.

I know a few people who have bought one simply for Guitar Hero. That's it. And at $125 or whatever it's selling for these days, that's bearable.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm starting to think the PS3 is just too hard to program for (why else is there such a lack of good games, and even games that cross platform havent' played as well on the PS3).

That isn't an issue. The issue is that there's no installed base, relatively speaking. There's games in development that have been repeatedly moved back. They're not being moved back because they need more time. They're being moved back because there's no way they'll make a good profit if they release their game with an installed base of just over 1M units. If all of the current stock were bought up today and there were 5M PS3's in the market, you wouldn't hear any of these 'it's too tough to design for' excuses from developers. They'd be too busy seeing dollar signs.

[moriarty]

That isn't an issue. The issue is that there's no installed base, relatively speaking. There's games in development that have been repeatedly moved back. They're not being moved back because they need more time. They're being moved back because there's no way they'll make a good profit if they release their game with an installed base of just over 1M units. If all of the current stock were bought up today and there were 5M PS3's in the market, you wouldn't hear any of these 'it's too tough to design for' excuses from developers. They'd be too busy seeing dollar signs.

To me that makes little to no sense form a business standpoint. Dont' get me wrong, I understand the part about the installed base. But if you already have a game in development, you've spent money to develop it. You need revenues to offset that expenditure (else you go out of business). You can't spend $500K (or whatever) to develop a game this year then put in on ice for a year because unless you're EA you can't afford to wait. Now for games not yet in development ... maybe that plan works.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

To me that makes little to no sense form a business standpoint. Dont' get me wrong, I understand the part about the installed base. But if you already have a game in development, you've spent money to develop it. You need revenues to offset that expenditure (else you go out of business). You can't spend $500K (or whatever) to develop a game this year then put in on ice for a year because unless you're EA you can't afford to wait. Now for games not yet in development ... maybe that plan works.

Most of the big developers do exactly what you're saying they can't do. They have to in this instance. The window for getting consumers to purchase games at the premium pricing level is very limited (maybe 4 weeks at a maximum). If they can take a $500K hit this year without any return investment, but then sell an additional 1M units during the next year at the release price as a result of waiting for an increase in user base, they'd do it without thinking twice. The opportunity cost if they release it now versus next year is just too much to give up.

[Anthony]

and 194K PS2's. Yes, the PS2 is so very much cheaper.. but one of my non FOFC friends who I copied those #'s to asked me if it was a sign that people are rejecting the next gen for current gen

that makes no sense at all. that's like rejecting automobiles for horse and carriage.

[Anthony]

It'll be interesting to see who has a price drop first, Microsoft or Sony.

if 360 cuts their price first that's pretty much the nail in the coffin for PS3. i'm waiting for a 360 price cut myself.

[TroyF]

I am by no means a Sony fanboy, but how can you make this statement? This is a marathon, not a sprint. The PS3 hasn't been released for a year and you're saying they're in huge trouble. Likewise, while the Wii has an ever-widening gap, they're still not out of the woods yet.

Microsoft may be stumbling with their Vista Live Gold packages and I think that's a mistake, but the 360 is steady for them. It's an acceptable Walk at this point.


It may be a marathon, but in a console race, the KEY part of the marathon is the start. That's where:

1) The maker of the console is losing money because of productions costs.
2) Game designers are looking at who to support and what level to support them at. (hint: they aren't going to put more money and time into support of one console, when the other two combined are slaughtering that console at a 5 to 1 clip overall)

3) Context is the critical thing a lot of people are missing here.

Sony - They are releasing the PS3 as a followup to one of the most beloved consoles of all time. Hell, people are still buying up PS2's left and right. But that hasn't helped them at all for the beginning months of the PS3. The PS2's popularity was fueled at the beginning by exclusive content not available anywhere else. (can you say EA?) They don't have the same advantage this time. You now have two competitors that are simply kicking their ass at the start. Even if they recover, their market share advantage is gone.

Nintendo - The laughing stock before E3. People are saying it's a gimmick and they'll fade. Ummm, that's fine, but they are laughing their asses off. They are beating the big 2 to a pulp. They've did everything they could have ever wanted already and they just started. It's good to be Nintendo.

Microsoft - Ask an MS guy what they wanted out of this and he'd have said "just let us gain some ground" They are going to gain ground. It'd take a minor miracle for them not to close the gap by the end of the cycle. They have a wave of exclusives, have bought out a ton of the Sony exclusives and have positioned themselves for a successful cycle.

So the point is. . . unless Sony not only catches up but starts to dominate, they lose this round. They went from being the undisputed king to having a three way battle.

Now my opinion is they won't catch the 360 or the Wii anytime soon, if ever. That would be the biggest disaster imaginable for them.

Context, not just the actual numbers, are important in judging this battle. This start is nothing short of disasterous for Sony and you can't spin it any other way.

[Anthony]

Let's assume that MS drops the Core console completely, drops the Premium box to $299 and drops the Elite box to $399. I think with the Blu-ray player being in the box, Sony could get away with a $399 price point. That would be a situation where the purchaser is paying only $100 more to get a HD media player and wireless built-in. Anything more than that assuming that MS drops their price structure in the fall would be awfully hard to swallow.

I think a $399 bundled with 2 games would do it for them. you gotta consider the blu-ray just might be a very expensive *mandatory* add-on that people just aren't willing to spring the extra money for. having a blu ray means you have to have a HD tv. you don't need a HDTV to get the most bang for your buck out of a 360. from Sony's point of view the blu ray is half the PS3's selling point, but when you're banking on a selling point you gotta make sure it's something people *need* to have and not something people can get away with not having. built-in wireless is cool though. all Sony needs to do is sell a core PS3 that doesn't have bluray in it and it'll start to pick up just fine.

[Ksyrup]

FWIW, I have our PS2 hooked up to our oldest TV in the basement. I don't even have the ability to hook it up to the internet. And I have an HDTV but have no interest in hooking up a console to it for any reason.

[SirFozzie]

Bill Harris chimes in with his 2 cents on the latest Sony #'s.

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/05/console-post-of-week-going-down-down.html

An Interesting points..

"Remember, they shipped 5.5 million units from the mid-November U.S. launch (one week earlier in Japan) to the end of March. That's roughly four and a half months, or about 1.2 million units a month.

Shipping 11 million systems in the upcoming fiscal year represents just over 900,000 units a month.

Even if you factor in stockpiling the 300,000 launch units, Sony is still going to ship fewer units per month than they did in the just-concluded fiscal year.

Sony isn't accelerating their PS3 shipments. They're reducing them."

Not 100% sure I agree with it, that is why you build up supplies of any product before letting them out to market, because of the early rush.

But I do agree with what he says later..

"Of course, part of the reason for doing that is that at least two million of the units they've shipped haven't sold, which is a huge inventory overhang"

Basically, that 2 million or so "Shipped, but not Sold" number is very very bad for Sony.

[KWhit]

I'm loving my Wii.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

All Sony needs to do is sell a core PS3 that doesn't have bluray in it and it'll start to pick up just fine.

That's obviously not going to happen. The games are only on Blu-ray disks and that won't change.

[moriarty]

Most of the big developers do exactly what you're saying they can't do. They have to in this instance. The window for getting consumers to purchase games at the premium pricing level is very limited (maybe 4 weeks at a maximum). If they can take a $500K hit this year without any return investment, but then sell an additional 1M units during the next year at the release price as a result of waiting for an increase in user base, they'd do it without thinking twice. The opportunity cost if they release it now versus next year is just too much to give up.

Really? Where's your proof of that information?

As a counter argument I would suggest that we constantly see games released too early due to the pressures for getting revenue. How many times have we heard those complaints on this board? How many "unfinished" games hit the market? Tons. The only time I've seen a game intentionally delayed is to perhaps align with the Xmas release schedule.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Context, not just the actual numbers, are important in judging this battle. This start is nothing short of disasterous for Sony and you can't spin it any other way.

It's also important to understand that this battle is far from over. I understand that we're extrapolating a bit at this point with only current knowledge, but you're assuming an awful lot if you think Sony is out of this by any means simply because of the slow start.

I'm guessing that you don't remember the comments about the PS2 at a similar point (i.e. 7 months out) in its life cycle. You'd be hard pressed to tell any difference between the comments that were made about the PS2 7 months post-release and the PS3 7 months post-release. Too expensive, no good games, Sony unresponsive......this list goes on. Not only that, they were dealing with some bad press involving some failures of the disc drives on the first-run consoles. There's been no technical issues at all on the PS3. It's just too expensive to produce any type of substantial demand.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Really? Where's your proof of that information?

As a counter argument I would suggest that we constantly see games released too early due to the pressures for getting revenue. How many times have we heard those complaints on this board? How many "unfinished" games hit the market? Tons. The only time I've seen a game intentionally delayed is to perhaps align with the Xmas release schedule.

Your making my point. The Wii is suffering from that to a great extent right now with their third party games. The reason that is occurring is that developers didn't have the games at a playable level, yet they released it anyway. Why? Because market forces say that the competition is extremely low (very few games ready for the Wii's growth) and the execs know with a huge base and limited choices that gamers are more likely to buy the games. Some of those developers have taken a financial hit though, as they relied a bit too much on the thought that consumers wouldn't be as picky with limited choices. Most Wii owners are content to just play Wii Sports and a Mario title and wait for new games.

We have a few developers/programmers on the board who I know will likely chime in regarding the holding of titles to wait for future installed base. Metal Gear Solid for the PS3 is a prime example. That game has been in development forever. If you think they really delayed that game an additional few months to tweak the game, I've got some oceanfront property in Kansas City that you'd be interested in. They'd rather wait a few months and reap the financial rewards that a larger installed base would afford them.

[moriarty]

Metal Gear Solid for the PS3 is a prime example. That game has been in development forever. If you think they really delayed that game an additional few months to tweak the game, I've got some oceanfront property in Kansas City that you'd be interested in. They'd rather wait a few months and reap the financial rewards that a larger installed base would afford them.

Like I said, where is your proof they are holding MGS3 or any other title already in development up because of the PS3 installed base?

[path12]

I am by no means a Sony fanboy, but how can you make this statement? This is a marathon, not a sprint. The PS3 hasn't been released for a year and you're saying they're in huge trouble. Likewise, while the Wii has an ever-widening gap, they're still not out of the woods yet.


Dude, the Game Boy is outselling the PS3. I think trouble is an accurate description.

I don't have a console, but put me in the camp that is kicking around the idea of a PS2. I can get it for around 100 bucks, there's a ton of games and I'm going to remain mostly a PC guy anyway.

[moriarty]

I'm guessing that you don't remember the comments about the PS2 at a similar point (i.e. 7 months out) in its life cycle. You'd be hard pressed to tell any difference between the comments that were made about the PS2 7 months post-release and the PS3 7 months post-release. Too expensive, no good games, Sony unresponsive......this list goes on. Not only that, they were dealing with some bad press involving some failures of the disc drives on the first-run consoles. There's been no technical issues at all on the PS3. It's just too expensive to produce any type of substantial demand.

First of all, I don't recall anyone, saying the PS2 was a complete bust at this phase of it's lifecycle. Just compare the PS2 sales at 7 months vs. those of the PS3 ... they're not even comparable. I dont' see how you can make a comparison between the customer responses to both systems.

To use Bill Harris' numbers (based on industry analyst forecasts) they're now predicting the PS3 to sell 25 million less units than the PS2 in the first 5 years of production. Tough to draw that parallel between systems.

I'm not saying the PS3 can't still make a comeback, but if you dont' see the disaster clouds here, you're blind or drinking the Kool-Aid.

[Desnudo]

Agreed. I think 400 is right about the sweet spot for pricing and would be enough of a price drop for me to get one this Christmas. However, I suspect they are going to try to get away with 500 which I think would be a mistake.

I would consider paying between $300-400 for a PS3. It's not like this economics lesson hasn't been taught before. There's no way in the world I'd ever pay $500+ for a game system.

[moriarty]

I'm one of those. Just got my PS2 in the last month. I wasn't in a position to get one for various reasons for a while. Now that things have changed, I got a refurb (plus the GameStop manager was my assistant coach this year, so employee discount) for under $70. I may get a next gen in the next two years, but for now I'm just playing PS2 for the first time and enjoying the great games I missed.

I just figured that most people who wanted a PS2 by now would have bought one, but I'm obviously wrong. You certainly can't go wrong with the price and the game library for PS2 if you're not concerned with cutting edge.

Ksyrup does make a good point on Guitar Hero. I can see some folks buying the PS2 just to play those titles.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

First of all, I don't recall anyone, saying the PS2 was a complete bust at this phase of it's lifecycle. Just compare the PS2 sales at 7 months vs. those of the PS3 ... they're not even comparable. I dont' see how you can make a comparison between the customer responses to both systems.

To use Bill Harris' numbers (based on industry analyst forecasts) they're now predicting the PS3 to sell 25 million less units than the PS2 in the first 5 years of production. Tough to draw that parallel between systems.

I'm not saying the PS3 can't still make a comeback, but if you dont' see the disaster clouds here, you're blind or drinking the Kool-Aid.

Read all my posts in this thread. I've already made more than one post in this thread saying that they need a price drop. I also said that even if they drop the price in the next couple of months, they're likely going to have to do it again around the holidays. I don't have to predict impending doom to avoid 'drinking the Kool-Aid'. There are shades of grey in this discussion.

Also, I would note that if Sony sells 25 million units less than the PS2, that's not necessarily a failure. Sure, they would lose some market share if that happened, but that's still going to be a huge installed base and the money is made on peripherals and games.

However, it's safe to say I certainly won't be applying for any Sony exec jobs in the near future unless I get a big old balloon payment regardless of sales results.

[moriarty]

Read all my posts in this thread. I've already made more than one post in this thread saying that they need a price drop. I also said that even if they drop the price in the next couple of months, they're likely going to have to do it again around the holidays. I don't have to predict impending doom to avoid 'drinking the Kool-Aid'. There are shades of grey in this discussion.

Also, I would note that if Sony sells 25 million units less than the PS2, that's not necessarily a failure. Sure, they would lose some market share if that happened, but that's still going to be a huge installed base and the money is made on peripherals and games.

However, it's safe to say I certainly won't be applying for any Sony exec jobs in the near future unless I get a big old balloon payment regardless of sales results.

Fair enough.

I think whether 25 million drop in units is a failure may ultimately depend on where those 25 million buyers go. If the 25 million go to Xbox or Wii then I'd consider it a failure (as it's a big hit on their core fan base). If they buy PS2 or don't buy at all then failure depends on how profitable the PS3/Blu Ray ends up.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Fair enough.

I think whether 25 million drop in units is a failure may ultimately depend on where those 25 million buyers go. If the 25 million go to Xbox or Wii then I'd consider it a failure (as it's a big hit on their core fan base). If they buy PS2 or don't buy at all then failure depends on how profitable the PS3/Blu Ray ends up.

I think it's nearly impossible for the PS3 to not be a 'failure' at this point in the sense that lost market share after being the leader is never a good thing. However, if they're able to remain competitive throughout this life cycle and eek out even a small lead at the end (which is generally what most analysts are predicting despite the horrid start), that's still a pretty good position to be in. They'd know the limits of the market from this launch and be able to create a new system in the future that avoids the pitfalls that Crazy Ken stepped into in this generation.

The machine itself, price aside, is great. Few would argue that. The price, if they want to be competitive from a mass market standpoint, sucks.

[Anthony]

Fair enough.

I think whether 25 million drop in units is a failure may ultimately depend on where those 25 million buyers go. If the 25 million go to Xbox or Wii then I'd consider it a failure (as it's a big hit on their core fan base). If they buy PS2 or don't buy at all then failure depends on how profitable the PS3/Blu Ray ends up.

what is this verbal crap? that's 25million in potential lost revenue, 25million people who won't be buying future PS3 games/products. that isn't ever good.

[moriarty]

what is this verbal crap? that's 25million in potential lost revenue, 25million people who won't be buying future PS3 games/products. that isn't ever good.

I agree it's verbal crap. :)

But I don't think you can completely disassociate the BluRay impact from the sales. If they lose some market share in exchange for BlueRay licensing for years to come then they could do well overall. I really have no feel for the numbers on that though, so it's just speculation.

Of course they'd rather have the 25MM units sold, but it may not be total failure even with reduced numbers. (For the record, I think they're screwed).

[Fidatelo]

Blu-Ray is going to have to be freakin' huge for them to make up those 2Bil (and counting) in losses...

[TroyF]

I think it's nearly impossible for the PS3 to not be a 'failure' at this point in the sense that lost market share after being the leader is never a good thing. However, if they're able to remain competitive throughout this life cycle and eek out even a small lead at the end (which is generally what most analysts are predicting despite the horrid start), that's still a pretty good position to be in. They'd know the limits of the market from this launch and be able to create a new system in the future that avoids the pitfalls that Crazy Ken stepped into in this generation.

The machine itself, price aside, is great. Few would argue that. The price, if they want to be competitive from a mass market standpoint, sucks.

I read this and did a double take. What the hell do you think I was saying in my context post you slammed?

Context, context, context. It's going to be a miracle for it not to be a failure. My personal belief is that they won't catch up at all. . . but if you put it into context, this is already a disaster and there are very little signs to point to it being anything other than an unmitigated disaster.

You keep using the PS2 as a reason for the PS3 not to worry. You keep missing the advantages the PS2 had. (you know, things like EA not making games for its competitors like Dreamcast?) Monster exclusives that only played on that system. (GTA anyone?)

They had a ton of things with the PS2 that they don't have with the PS3. They have Blu-Ray. Maybe that saves em in the end, but I don't think so. They took a market they dominated and have now split the thing three ways with themselves getting the smallest slice of the pie and having to go into comeback mode this quick into the cycle.

I'll say it again: Unmitigated disaster. Period.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Blu-Ray is going to have to be freakin' huge for them to make up those 2Bil (and counting) in losses...

It should be noted that Sony budgeted for a big shortfall this year (over 1 billion), so only a portion of that amount is actual unexpected losses. That said, even 1 billion in unexpected losses is a bit mind-boggling to the average person.

[Ryan S]

The PS3 sales must be terrible in the UK right now. The retail price of the PS3 is approx $850, but most retailers are now cutting $50-70 from the price and throwing in an HDMI cable to shift units.

Even at that price, the PS3 is hugely overpriced next to the Wii and the 360.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

They're doing similar things in the U.S. Amazon was offering the 60 GB version with second controller free. That's a pretty nice throw-in as most people would be getting a 2nd controller anyway. We'll definitely be seeing more of that as we go along.

[sooner333]

I don't see Blu-Ray being a huge selling point for PS3, and that's where the mistake came in. I think gamers and hard-core movie watchers are pretty mutually exclusive. I'm more of a gamer, while my dad has the huge plasma and sound system to watch movies. We're quite different on the amount of money we have to buy these kinds of things. Sony putting in the Blue-Ray with the product means that they have to charge more. Most people don't have the system in place to watch these movies at their full capacity...for most people, watching a movie in ED is good enough without surround.

People who are interested in HD movies are the same people who were interested in LaserDisc and DVD players in their first gen...basically not very many. Most gamers don't care and so what was thought to be a major selling point just isn't one...the added cost probably hurts it more than helps.

Blu-Ray may win the HD movie battle, but it's not going to help the PS3 and I don't really think that the PS3 had too much of an effect--after all, people were touting the format as better regardless of availibility.

[dawgfan]

I'm not aware of any game publishers specifically delaying release of a game on a platform due to poor platform sales, but that doesn't necessarily mean it hasn't happened.

There are good arguments to be made from both perspectives - publishers can spend a lot of money creating games, and the sooner they can start recovering those costs, the better. On the other hand, you want to make sure you can maximize your sales, so timing your game's release to when there are more installed users makes sense as well.

I'm not an executive, nor am I in marketing, so I don't know all the details of how release date decisions are made. But it makes sense that once a game has reached the point of being greenlit (i.e. full-steam ahead on full production), there's usually not a wide range of possible release dates. That work is generally done ahead of time by the number crunchers, trying to figure out the optimum window of time for release given the install bases, the possible game competition and the best time of the year for sales of that type of game. Also factored in is the cost of creating the game, and how much that cost goes up the longer the game is in production.

Sure, games are often delayed for various reasons (the game just isn't coming together as quickly as hoped, a similar game is released that would hurt sales) and sometimes games are rushed a bit (cutting losses on a project that is not going well, rushing to beat to market a competitor). But ultimately, I think release dates are mostly about how that particular project is progressing, and whether the project is likely to hit the projected dates designated at the start of the project hitting full production mode.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Blu-Ray may win the HD movie battle, but it's not going to help the PS3 and I don't really think that the PS3 had too much of an effect--after all, people were touting the format as better regardless of availibility.

I generally agree. It's a secondary benefit. People buy the console for games first and the player is just a plus. I doubt that anyone buys it as a player first and gaming system second. Obviously, they also put it in when it was far too expensive as a component. That decision is going to be a business case in marketing classes for years to come.

[Pyser]

bear with me.

one of Oasis' biggest regrets is releasing Be Here Now too soon after (What's the Story) Morning Glory, because they felt Morning Glory was still selling well, and hadn't finished it's run.

Is it possible that the ps2 wasnt done yet? Sure Xbox needed to make a move, they lost the previous generation war. But ps2's were (and still are) selling. Would it have been a better idea to hold off another year or 2, give some ground to Xbox, and then release the ps3 when the ps2's finally start to drop off?

I know sony wanted to get the blu-ray out there, and that complicates things, since they wanted to win 2 wars in one fell swoop....

Anyway, that's what's been on my mind.

[moriarty]

I dont' think the Blu Ray helped the pS3. I agree that it actually has probably hurt their sales (due to the higher price point).

I think Sony's strategy was that there was enough demand for a PS3 that it would basically make BluRay the default standard for HD-DVD (via the PS3 install base) and they would recoup lots of money through BluRay technology licensing.

It looks like BlueRay has a lead (whether that's true due to PS3 or not). So if BlueRay wins over HD-DVD, does Sony come out net-net ahead of all their PS3 losses? Probably not - like someone said you'd have to sell a lot of BluRay discs to make up for it and I dont' think the appetite is there.

I would be vary curious though to see what % of BluRay DVD sales are being played on a PS3 vs. a stand alone player to see if the PS3 really did have an impact on BluRay vs. HD-DVD wars.

[stevew]

Anybody seeing Wii's on the shelf yet? I saw one the other week, but that's the only one I've seen.

[Eaglesfan27]

Anybody seeing Wii's on the shelf yet? I saw one the other week, but that's the only one I've seen.

I've seen them both times I've been to my local gamestop in the past month.

[stevew]

I never bought a ps2 either, and honestly have considered it several times of late. But I don't play enough games to where I can justify the expense. Too bad the damned thing(ps2) isn't an upconvert DVD player, as I would buy one because of that, cause I need a new stand alone DVD player anyways.

[TazFTW]

Anybody seeing Wii's on the shelf yet? I saw one the other week, but that's the only one I've seen.

The Costco near me had around 20.

[Anthony]

I read this and did a double take. What the hell do you think I was saying in my context post you slammed?

Context, context, context. It's going to be a miracle for it not to be a failure. My personal belief is that they won't catch up at all. . . but if you put it into context, this is already a disaster and there are very little signs to point to it being anything other than an unmitigated disaster.

You keep using the PS2 as a reason for the PS3 not to worry. You keep missing the advantages the PS2 had. (you know, things like EA not making games for its competitors like Dreamcast?) Monster exclusives that only played on that system. (GTA anyone?)

They had a ton of things with the PS2 that they don't have with the PS3. They have Blu-Ray. Maybe that saves em in the end, but I don't think so. They took a market they dominated and have now split the thing three ways with themselves getting the smallest slice of the pie and having to go into comeback mode this quick into the cycle.

I'll say it again: Unmitigated disaster. Period.

not only that, but they can't even outsell their old console. do you know how bad it is when people would rather buy your previous version than purchase your shiny new product? embarassing.

[Synovia]

The Costco near me had around 20.

Crazy. You STILL can't get Wiis, or wiimotes around here. Nobody has them.

[WVUFAN]

Crazy. You STILL can't get Wiis, or wiimotes around here. Nobody has them.

There's about 8 or 9 Wii's in the WalMart near my house, and they're fully stocked with Wiimotes and Nunchuck controllers.

[bronconick]

I read this and did a double take. What the hell do you think I was saying in my context post you slammed?

Context, context, context. It's going to be a miracle for it not to be a failure. My personal belief is that they won't catch up at all. . . but if you put it into context, this is already a disaster and there are very little signs to point to it being anything other than an unmitigated disaster.

You keep using the PS2 as a reason for the PS3 not to worry. You keep missing the advantages the PS2 had. (you know, things like EA not making games for its competitors like Dreamcast?) Monster exclusives that only played on that system. (GTA anyone?)

They had a ton of things with the PS2 that they don't have with the PS3. They have Blu-Ray. Maybe that saves em in the end, but I don't think so. They took a market they dominated and have now split the thing three ways with themselves getting the smallest slice of the pie and having to go into comeback mode this quick into the cycle.

I'll say it again: Unmitigated disaster. Period.

That about sums it up. Hell, the only way I think they make it even close this generation is if they keep FF13 exclusive, and slash the price to ~$400 the week it comes out. That's about the only useful exclusive they have left now, isn't it? They probably wish after seeing God of War II sell that many PS2's that they had switched it over to the PS3 early in development.

[Eaglesfan27]

This is interesting. A 3rd party developer CEO said that Sony must reduce the price of the PS3:


http://www.gamespot.com/news/6171149.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;1


NewsSpots: Ubisoft on PS3, SOE Fan Faire, Namco Museum Wii, BioWare talent search

Yves Guillemot says Sony must slash console prices, SOE event to debut new title, old games revamped, and RPG developer looks for amateur designers.

By Staff, GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/) Posted May 18, 2007 5:03 pm PT


Ubisoft CEO says PS3 price must come down

Following the lackluster sales of the PlayStation 3 in April, the CEO of one of the top third-party publishers has called for the console's price to come down. Speaking at a Reuters technology summit, Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot expressed his belief that the gaming platform's price is putting off many would-be buyers. Reuters reported Guillemot as saying that Sony needs to lower the price "quite significantly" and predicting that Sony would certainly have a reduced share of the market in this generation of consoles. As for Ubisoft's PS3 support, Guillemot said the publisher was planning a game exclusive to the system, for release in Europe.

[Richard Weed]

It may be a marathon, but in a console race, the KEY part of the marathon is the start. That's where:

1) The maker of the console is losing money because of productions costs.
2) Game designers are looking at who to support and what level to support them at. (hint: they aren't going to put more money and time into support of one console, when the other two combined are slaughtering that console at a 5 to 1 clip overall)

Agree with all of your post, but quote a selected part here.

The PS2 came out before the Xbox in the last generation of console wars and gained a considerable lead over Microsoft. Now in this generation the 360 comes out about a year ahead of the PS3 and has a considerable lead. All things considered like milking your system for all it's worth, if you were Sony or Microsoft, would you accelerate your product cycle so that you release before your competition's release?

I'm discounting the Wii since it seems to be targeted to a different audience.

[Fidatelo]

Releasing before your competition isn't a bad idea, but I'm not sure it is necessarily a huge advantage. The Dreamcast was the first of its gen and ended up last. Also consider that the guy who comes last generally can afford to be the most powerful for the same price point as those that came before. Also, a lot of people will wait until the last system of a generation comes out before making their decision. Many of the people that 'early adopt' will buy every system that they consider worthy, so just because they bought the guy that came out first doesn't mean they won't also buy the guy that came out last.

[sabotai]

Both the Sega Saturn and Dreamcast were the first of their generations (Well, technically there were 3 other consoles out before the Saturn, but none of them did well. 3DO, Amiga CD-32 and Atari Jaguar). The Saturn came out 2 weeks before the Playstation in Japan, but several months before the PS in North America. The Saturn also lost to the N64, which came out a year later. The Saturn only sold 9.2 million consoles. I would say that the Saturn lauch was botched more badly than the PS3's so far. It was bad.

And as been said, the Dreamcast was out more than year before the PS2, and it came in dead last in that generation as well (only 10 million sold).

[sterlingice]

Poor Dreamcast. Never had a chance but it had a lot of good games and console ideas :(

SI

[MJ4H]

i bought a dreamcast for crazy taxi. that game owned.

[General Mike]

That about sums it up. Hell, the only way I think they make it even close this generation is if they keep FF13 exclusive, and slash the price to ~$400 the week it comes out. That's about the only useful exclusive they have left now, isn't it? They probably wish after seeing God of War II sell that many PS2's that they had switched it over to the PS3 early in development.

What about God of War 3, and you know there will be a GoW3, and Shadow of the Colossus 2, and Gran Turismo 5? SOCOM?

[TroyF]

bronco hit on a point I've been making for a long time. Why on Earth did Sony allow GOW2 to be anything other than a PS3 exclusive? That's a system seller. It'd have gave the system an incredible kick start. Instead it came out as a PS2 game and probably fueled some sales of the PS2.

Ridiculous move. In a year full of horrible moves and PR mishaps, I think that was their single biggest mistake.

[ISiddiqui]

bronco hit on a point I've been making for a long time. Why on Earth did Sony allow GOW2 to be anything other than a PS3 exclusive? That's a system seller. It'd have gave the system an incredible kick start. Instead it came out as a PS2 game and probably fueled some sales of the PS2.

Ridiculous move. In a year full of horrible moves and PR mishaps, I think that was their single biggest mistake.

Indeed... things like that make so little sense it's crazy. What do they think is going to sell PS3s? Exclusive system-seller titles is how you get a LOT of your sales. See what will happen to the 360 when Halo3 comes out.

[Izulde]

Hell, Dead or Alive 4, which wouldn't be considered a killer exclusive in most people's minds, is what got me to buy a 360.

[tucker342]

if 360 cuts their price first that's pretty much the nail in the coffin for PS3. i'm waiting for a 360 price cut myself.

same here... once the price drops I will definitely be picking up a 360

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Anybody seeing Wii's on the shelf yet? I saw one the other week, but that's the only one I've seen.

I actually saw them in Wal-Mart, Target and Gamestop here in KC on my trip to the various retailers Tuesday hoping someone had a copy of MLB 07. They are regularly in stock pretty much everywhere in this area at this point.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I would be vary curious though to see what % of BluRay DVD sales are being played on a PS3 vs. a stand alone player to see if the PS3 really did have an impact on BluRay vs. HD-DVD wars.

Given that roughly 60% of the installed base for BR is PS3's, it's hard to say that it didn't have an impact. That's a big lump of their total customers.

[Oilers9911]

Poor Dreamcast. Never had a chance but it had a lot of good games and console ideas :(

SI

The Dreamcast was an incredibly underrated system. It's a shame Sega didn't the resources to market it like they should have as I think it could have done much better. I still play mine from time to time.

[moriarty]

same here... once the price drops I will definitely be picking up a 360

If they coincide a price drop with the release of Halo3 ... that would be really tough for PS3 to match at this point. I really doubt that will happen though.

[sooner333]

Given that roughly 60% of the installed base for BR is PS3's, it's hard to say that it didn't have an impact. That's a big lump of their total customers.

But, how many of these people are actually viewing Blu-Ray discs? While I don't actually know anyone with a ps3, I do know people with 360s that don't even hook them up component because they are using old tv's (I was doing this for awhile before I got my HDTV). Even if I had an HD-DVD player built-in, I couldn't have used it until earlier this year.

[cartman]

If you dig a little deeper the numbers for Blu-Ray movies sales aren't impressive as they make them sound. Yes, in the past month, the ratio was 75% Blu-Ray to 25% HD-DVD. But the raw sales numbers paint a much different story. The #1 next-gen movie sold was Casino Royale, which sold a little over 12,000 copies on Blu-Ray. The next 9 movies on the Top 10 list sold just over 10,000 units combined. So in no way is Blu-Ray building an insurmountable lead for Sony in the movie camp.

note: sales numbers are in another thread on the board.

[WVUFAN]

Hell, Dead or Alive 4, which wouldn't be considered a killer exclusive in most people's minds, is what got me to buy a 360.

The exclusive that made me buy a 360 is Mass Effect. I think that game could be bigger than people think.

[spleen1015]

RIP PS3.

[sabotai]

If you dig a little deeper the numbers for Blu-Ray movies sales aren't impressive as they make them sound. Yes, in the past month, the ratio was 75% Blu-Ray to 25% HD-DVD. But the raw sales numbers paint a much different story. The #1 next-gen movie sold was Casino Royale, which sold a little over 12,000 copies on Blu-Ray. The next 9 movies on the Top 10 list sold just over 10,000 units combined. So in no way is Blu-Ray building an insurmountable lead for Sony in the movie camp.

note: sales numbers are in another thread on the board.

Didn't they bundle Blu-Ray copies of Casino Royale with the PS3 for awhile? I know I saw commercials for it. I wonder if they counted towards Casino Royale Blu-Ray sales.

[Ryan S]

The #1 next-gen movie sold was Casino Royale, which sold a little over 12,000 copies on Blu-Ray. The next 9 movies on the Top 10 list sold just over 10,000 units combined.

In the UK it is pretty difficult to find Blu Ray disks at all, and I don't think that the blu ray drive is a selling point here. In the UK we have only had HD broadcasts for a year or so, so there are far fewer HD tvs out there. Even now, there are probably less than 15 channels available nationwide.

[moriarty]

In the UK it is pretty difficult to find Blu Ray disks at all, and I don't think that the blu ray drive is a selling point here. In the UK we have only had HD broadcasts for a year or so, so there are far fewer HD tvs out there. Even now, there are probably less than 15 channels available nationwide.

15 HD channels? Sign me up. I think I'm lucky to get 10 (counting the locals).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good article discussing the sales numbers from this past month.......

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/archive/2007/05/21/monday-morning-quarterback-for-april-2007.aspx

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Probably one of the best updates to date for the PS3. Update will include upscaling to 1080p of PS and PS2 games and DVD movies. Should be a really nice addition.

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/05/23/firmware-1-80-to-include-1080p-upscaling-for-games-and-movies/

[Atocep]

Probably one of the best updates to date for the PS3. Update will include upscaling to 1080p of PS and PS2 games and DVD movies. Should be a really nice addition.

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/05/23/firmware-1-80-to-include-1080p-upscaling-for-games-and-movies/

I would have never guessed you read PS3fanboy.com ;)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I would have never guessed you read PS3fanboy.com ;)

LOL. Yeah I realize the hazards of posting a link from that site. But it had the most information on the update. For the record, I also read the Wii fanboy and DS fanboy sites so I don't have to read through all the Joystiq articles that have nothing to do with gaming. :)

[SirFozzie]

The NPD article said May is going to be another horrible month because only 2 third party games are released for PS3 this month, and no Sony games. (except for maybe the PS3 version of the Show?)

[Godzilla Blitz]

Does anyone think that The Show on PS3 will move some PS3s?

It's the first game that has made me even consider buying one. Still not close, but the thought popped into my mind.

[Eaglesfan27]

Does anyone think that The Show on PS3 will move some PS3s?

It's the first game that has made me even consider buying one. Still not close, but the thought popped into my mind.

I think there will be a slight blip in sales but nothing significant. I think the PS3 is just too far our of most families price range to be anything other than a major holiday gift, and even then it is going to be a hard sell.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I think there will be a slight blip in sales but nothing significant. I think the PS3 is just too far our of most families price range to be anything other than a major holiday gift, and even then it is going to be a hard sell.

Agreed. They may see a jump to 100K or something like that, but 100K is still not good enough. I'm just glad I'm not the financial analyst that has to tell the execs who lost a ton of money that the best way to get the PS3 rolling is to cut prices........

[Atocep]

Agreed. They may see a jump to 100K or something like that, but 100K is still not good enough. I'm just glad I'm not the financial analyst that has to tell the execs who lost a ton of money that the best way to get the PS3 rolling is to cut prices........

Their stubborness is going to end up costing them. They seem amazed that their superior product isn't selling like the PS2 did or the Wii is right now. If they plan on waiting until everyone wakes up and runs out to buy a PS3 then $2 billion in losses is just the begining.

Going back to what I mentioned in the epic sales thread from a couple months ago, I think the PS3 disaster is going to cost their gaming department quite a bit in the long run. Before this generation of consoles Playstation as a name was on par with Atari when it was big and Nintendo with the NES. They've cost themselves years of marketing a product and building up a gigantic marketshare lead in order to push Blu-Ray. Its been said by just about everyone that for the gaming division it was probably mistake, but IMO its a mistake they're going to feel going into the next round of consoles also.

They need to realize what they've lost isn't going to be made up with the PS3 priced the way it is right now. As you said, it would suck to be the financial analyst that has to tell them, but they need to start cutting prices to save what marketshare they can now or risk being completely passed up by Microsoft.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Going back to what I mentioned in the epic sales thread from a couple months ago, I think the PS3 disaster is going to cost their gaming department quite a bit in the long run. Before this generation of consoles Playstation as a name was on par with Atari when it was big and Nintendo with the NES. They've cost themselves years of marketing a product and building up a gigantic marketshare lead in order to push Blu-Ray. Its been said by just about everyone that for the gaming division it was probably mistake, but IMO its a mistake they're going to feel going into the next round of consoles also.

I don't buy that at all. Video game consumers will buy the best console, regardless what the previous versions did. Atari and Sega have fallen flat on their face despite having market-leading consoles at one point in time. Nintendo fell flat with the N64 and Gamecube after having early success and have now done well with the Wii. People certainly didn't hold it against them that the Gamecube sucked.

If Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, etc. come out with the best system AT THE BEST PRICE in the next generation of systems, no one will care what the PS3, 360 or Wii did in the previous generation.

[albionmoonlight]

I don't buy that at all. Video game consumers will buy the best console, regardless what the previous versions did. Atari and Sega have fallen flat on their face despite having market-leading consoles at one point in time. Nintendo fell flat with the N64 and Gamecube after having early success and have now done well with the Wii. People certainly didn't hold it against them that the Gamecube sucked.

If Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, etc. come out with the best system AT THE BEST PRICE in the next generation of systems, no one will care what the PS3, 360 or Wii did in the previous generation.

I think that there is some minor inertia built into the system. Things like "I am used to the PlayStation controls" or "I want to keep playing my library of previous gen games on the new system."

I agree with you, though, that once you get to anything like a significant difference in price or quality, people will be willing to jump ship.

[Maple Leafs]

Hey guys, sorry if I missed this somewhere else, I haven't followed all that closely...

Have they worked out whether Square games would be PS3 exclusives? And if so, when's the next big Square game going to appear?

Seems like that should get things moving, if anything can.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Hey guys, sorry if I missed this somewhere else, I haven't followed all that closely...

Have they worked out whether Square games would be PS3 exclusives? And if so, when's the next big Square game going to appear?

Seems like that should get things moving, if anything can.

There was new information about that yesterday. FF XIII is now moved to a early 2008 release date. It is still exclusive to the PS3.

[Eaglesfan27]

There was new information about that yesterday. FF XIII is now moved to a early 2008 release date. It is still exclusive to the PS3.


Actually, it's going to be sometime after March of 08 since they have said it won't be in the current fiscal year. They still haven't said officially whether or not it is PS3 exclusive.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Actually, it's going to be sometime after March of 08 since they have said it won't be in the current fiscal year. They still haven't said officially whether or not it is PS3 exclusive.

That's simply not true. It was announced as coming out for the PS3 from the very beginning. There has been no indication that it is coming out for any other system other than the PS3 at this point. All of the screen shots have come from PS3 development systems. The only mention of it going to any other systems has been internet-based rumors. None of those rumors have contained any substance. If I have missed an article where Square Enix states otherwise, please post it.

The only thing that Square Enix has said is that the spin-offs from the FF franchise would be on other consoles, but that's not a surprise as it has been that way in the past as well.

[Eaglesfan27]

That's simply not true. It was announced as coming out for the PS3 from the very beginning. There has been no indication that it is coming out for any other system other than the PS3 at this point. All of the screen shots have come from PS3 development systems. The only mention of it going to any other systems has been internet-based rumors. None of those rumors have contained any substance. If I have missed an article where Square Enix states otherwise, please post it.

The only thing that Square Enix has said is that the spin-offs from the FF franchise would be on other consoles, but that's not a surprise as it has been that way in the past as well.


No. Some people have assumed that it is PS3 exclusive, but it has never been officially announced as being exclusive on the PS3 and square has talked about how the new engine is multi-platform. A Sony exec has said that exclusivity is in discussion and again no Square exec has ever said it was PS3 exclusive. You show me one article where Square execs definitively say it is PS3 exclusive.

[Bee]

No. Some people have assumed that it is PS3 exclusive, but it has never been officially announced as being exclusive on the PS3 and square has talked about how the new engine is multi-platform. A Sony exec has said that exclusivity is in discussion and again no Square exec has ever said it was PS3 exclusive. You show me one article where Square execs definitively say it is PS3 exclusive.

The comments from the Sony exec are pretty interesting (and I think pretty accurate concerning the difficulty of maintaining exclusivity in today's market).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

No. Some people have assumed that it is PS3 exclusive, but it has never been officially announced as being exclusive on the PS3 and square has talked about how the new engine is multi-platform. A Sony exec has said that exclusivity is in discussion and again no Square exec has ever said it was PS3 exclusive. You show me one article where Square execs definitively say it is PS3 exclusive.

OK, so we'll meet in the middle and agree that no other system has been named in association with the FF XIII game. The screen shots are from the PS3 development box.

As you and I have discussed previously, if FF was not exclusive, it would be a major blow to the PS3. I would be floored if Sony didn't have at least a timed exclusive, if not full exclusive for this game. The only reason they're still in discussions is likely because Square wants to hold Sony to the grinding wheel and get enough money from them to make it worth their while. Sony and Square are both aware that the PS3 will likely double its worldwide installed base when FF XIII is released for the system. They can't afford to miss that opportunity over a few dollars here and there.

[Eaglesfan27]

OK, so we'll meet in the middle and agree that no other system has been named in association with the FF XIII game. The screen shots are from the PS3 development box.

As you and I have discussed previously, if FF was not exclusive, it would be a major blow to the PS3. I would be floored if Sony didn't have at least a timed exclusive, if not full exclusive for this game. The only reason they're still in discussions is likely because Square wants to hold Sony to the grinding wheel and get enough money from them to make it worth their while. Sony and Square are both aware that the PS3 will likely double its worldwide installed base when FF XIII is released for the system. They can't afford to miss that opportunity over a few dollars here and there.


That is a very different statement than you making factual statements that it is a PS3 exclusive. It is not at this point, and I'd say there is still a good chance that Square ends up going multi-platform if PS3 sales continue to flounder. There is no reason for them to limit their possible sales to just the PS3 owners. I think at best Square might go the Ubisoft route and make the PS3 a lead console with it coming out on the 360 a few months later which would be a significant blow to the PS3. However, we are both just guessing. No one knows until an official statement is made from Square and that was my point.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

That is a very different statement than you making factual statements that it is a PS3 exclusive. It is not at this point, and I'd say there is still a good chance that Square ends up going multi-platform if PS3 sales continue to flounder. There is no reason for them to limit their possible sales to just the PS3 owners. I think at best Square might go the Ubisoft route and make the PS3 a lead console with it coming out on the 360 a few months later which would be a significant blow to the PS3. However, we are both just guessing. No one knows until an official statement is made from Square and that was my point.

I would be shocked if they decided to release it on the 360 even as a timed exclusive and here's why. Several developers have mentioned how easy it is to create a game for the 360 and then move it to the PS3. But they have also said that it's very difficult to make a game on the PS3 and then move it to the 360 without noticable changes and a lot of redesign. Assassin's Creed might be a good first measure of that as I believe it was originally developed on the PS3 (not completely sure on that). The fact that it's taking so long to release it may be an indication of the difficulties they're having.

As far as making a different statement, I believe my first statement to be more accurate, but I'm willing to meet in the middle just for you. :)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Another big title moved to 2008. Devil May Cry 4 has been moved back. Will there be any big games for any of the systems during the holiday season? Geez. There's going to be a ton of 360/PS3 content coming out in early 2008. I guess they're waiting for people to get the systems as presents over the holidays hoping that they'll buy games for the system in early 2008.

[Synovia]

"Several developers have mentioned how easy it is to create a game for the 360 and then move it to the PS3. But they have also said that it's very difficult to make a game on the PS3 and then move it to the 360 without noticable changes and a lot of redesign."

That just means the PS3's engine has a whole lot more functionality than the 360s. That being said, with what Square has said about their new engine being multiplatform, I wouldnt be surprised if FFXIII was being designed on the 360, with the intention of releasing it on the PS3, then months later releasing it on 360.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

"Several developers have mentioned how easy it is to create a game for the 360 and then move it to the PS3. But they have also said that it's very difficult to make a game on the PS3 and then move it to the 360 without noticable changes and a lot of redesign."

That just means the PS3's engine has a whole lot more functionality than the 360s. That being said, with what Square has said about their new engine being multiplatform, I wouldnt be surprised if FFXIII was being designed on the 360, with the intention of releasing it on the PS3, then months later releasing it on 360.

Very doubtful. The PS3 has always been the target console for this game. I guess you could make up any scenario if you worked hard enough. A much more likely scenario if it were a timed exclusive would be the development for the PS3 and then to use the extra time to port it over to the 360. I don't think there even will be a port, but that's a more likely scenario if there were a timed exclusive.

[Synovia]

Very doubtful. The PS3 has always been the target console for this game. I guess you could make up any scenario if you worked hard enough. A much more likely scenario if it were a timed exclusive would be the development for the PS3 and then to use the extra time to port it over to the 360. I don't think there even will be a port, but that's a more likely scenario if there were a timed exclusive.

I'm not "making up scenarios". Designing for the harder console to port TO is a pretty common, and sound, method of operation.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm not "making up scenarios". Designing for the harder console to port TO is a pretty common, and sound, method of operation.

Not when your dealing with a franchise that has been solely based on Sony systems up to this point and is considered the cornerstone franchise of that system. I know it's fun to go through the 'what-ifs', but when it comes down to it, if Sony wants the game on their console, they're going to have it. The only question is price.

[Eaglesfan27]

Not when your dealing with a franchise that has been solely based on Sony systems up to this point and is considered the cornerstone franchise of that system. I know it's fun to go through the 'what-ifs', but when it comes down to it, if Sony wants the game on their console, they're going to have it. The only question is price.

But is Sony willing to meet that price? What if it is a couple hundred of million? It's certainly not inconceivable that could be the price if the Xbox 360 continues to have a larger install base and Square would be giving up millions of potential sales. Especially since the gulf between the PS3 and 360 market share may be larger in favor of the 360 by the time FF XIII comes out (an article I read yesterday said Spring 08 "at the earliest.") It made much more sense to remain exclusive when the PS2 was the clear market leader with a huge advantage in market share. That is no longer the case and doesn't allow for extrapolation of last gen tactics to this gen in Square's release decisions.

[Icy]

Now this could make a huge impact, firmware update 1.8 just released. The main keys are upscaling of DVD, BR and PS/PS2 games to full 1080p and the possibility of sharing and streaming in real time all kind of media content from your computer to your PS3. PS2 games look way better now with the upscaling to 1080p as you can also set it to apply anti aliasing and avoid the pixelation of old games.

LATEST PLAYSTATION 3 FIRMWARE UPDATE ADDS UPSCALING FOR PLAYSTATION/PLAYSTATION 2 GAMES AND DVD MOVIES

Remote Play on PSP (PlayStation Portable) System via Wireless Internet and Access to Media Content via DLNA Technology Also Enabled

FOSTER CITY, Calif., May 23, 2007 – Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) today announced that the next regular system software update for the PLAYSTATION 3 (PS3) computer entertainment system (version 1.80) will be available on Thursday, May 24, and will add upscaling of PlayStation/PlayStation 2 games and DVD movies up to 1080p resolution. Now, in addition to displaying native high-definition (HD) content in the highest possible quality (1080p), PS3 system can turn standard definition content into a vibrant HD-quality experience.

The latest firmware update also gives PS3 owners more flexibility to enjoy their digital entertainment content where they want to. The Remote Play feature for using a PSP (PlayStation Portable) system to access photos, videos, and music on a PS3 system’s hard drive will be available from outside of a user’s own home via any accessible Wi-Fi Internet connection, upon the next PSP firmware update. Additionally, PS3 can now play back media content stored on a personal computer or digital video recorder with Digital Living Network Alliance (DLNA) capability over a home network.

“As adoption of HDTVs continues to surge, we know that consumers are hungry for content, and this latest firmware update leverages the PS3’s technology to deliver an HD-quality experience using the entertainment media already in your collection,” said Peter Dille, senior vice president of marketing, SCEA. “In addition, we continue to enhance the PS3’s capabilities as an entertainment hub, giving consumers the option to bring their content with them on-the-go, or to stream photos, videos, and music stored on their PC to the PS3 in their living room. That’s often where the largest TV monitor and sound system is located, giving consumers the best possible entertainment experience.”

Upscaling Games and Movies
SCEA is enhancing the PS3 user experience by enabling PlayStation and PlayStation 2 games to be upscaled to HD resolution, up to 1080p. Classic games as well as recently released titles can now be enjoyed like never before. And PS3 system now has the capability to upscale DVD videos to HD quality (up to 1080p), a feature typically limited to top-of-the-line DVD players. Upscaling games requires an HDMI or component AV cable, while upscaling DVD-ROM (including DVD Video content) requires an HDMI cable and HDMI compatible TV set.

Media Content on the Move
Since November, PS3 owners have been able to stream photos, videos, and music stored on their PS3’s hard drive to a nearby PSP system. Consumers will soon have the freedom to access this media content wherever and whenever their PSP is connected to a wireless Internet access point. To take advantage of this feature, users will have to update their PSP system’s firmware to the next version, 3.50, slated for release next week. Once both systems are updated, consumers can enjoy their entertainment content wherever and whenever wireless Internet access is available, including the 7,000 T-Mobile HotSpot locations across the United States.

Other Feature Upgrades

Copying Saved Data to a Memory Card – Users can now copy saved data from
PlayStation or PlayStation 2 format software stored on their PS3 system to a
Memory Card or Memory Card (8MB) (for PlayStation 2), using their PS3
system and a Memory Card Adaptor.

Photo Printing, Viewing, and Editing – The photo capabilities of PS3 system
have been enhanced, allowing users to print digital photos stored on a PS3’s
hard drive or inserted storage media. Currently, select Epson printers connected
via USB are compatible. In addition, users will find a new type of slideshow for
displaying photos, zoom functionality and the option to crop images.

[Icy]

Dola

This is great, i have shared all the media from my PC in 1 minute and now i can plug my PS3 in another room to the TV, have my home wireless network enabled and to watch in the PS3+TV all the divx movies, listen to all the music, watch all the photos, etc that i have stored in my PC, all streamed in real time.

[BrianD]

Dola

This is great, i have shared all the media from my PC in 1 minute and now i can plug my PS3 in another room to the TV, have my home wireless network enabled and to watch in the PS3+TV all the divx movies, listen to all the music, watch all the photos, etc that i have stored in my PC, all streamed in real time.

This was supposed to be in the works for the PS2 back when the released the hard drive, but it never came to be. I was slightly annoyed by that.

[Atocep]

I don't buy that at all. Video game consumers will buy the best console, regardless what the previous versions did. Atari and Sega have fallen flat on their face despite having market-leading consoles at one point in time. Nintendo fell flat with the N64 and Gamecube after having early success and have now done well with the Wii. People certainly didn't hold it against them that the Gamecube sucked.

If Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, etc. come out with the best system AT THE BEST PRICE in the next generation of systems, no one will care what the PS3, 360 or Wii did in the previous generation.

There's some momentum that carries over to the next generation based on which company you had the best experience with. Its not the deciding factor, but it gives you an advantage at launch with those that are going to blindly buy a system out of faith and good experiences with previous consoles.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

But is Sony willing to meet that price? What if it is a couple hundred of million? It's certainly not inconceivable that could be the price if the Xbox 360 continues to have a larger install base and Square would be giving up millions of potential sales. Especially since the gulf between the PS3 and 360 market share may be larger in favor of the 360 by the time FF XIII comes out (an article I read yesterday said Spring 08 "at the earliest.") It made much more sense to remain exclusive when the PS2 was the clear market leader with a huge advantage in market share. That is no longer the case and doesn't allow for extrapolation of last gen tactics to this gen in Square's release decisions.

I honestly think that keeping this game exclusive at any price is a must for Sony. The future health of this console depends on it. It wouldn't shock anyone if 3-4M PS3 units went off the shelves in the month or two following the FF XIII release. Japan alone would move 2 million units. I think that's the reason for the prolonged negotiations. Square is aware of this and is going to take a pretty penny off Sony in the process. Installed base is more important than profit in my estimation at this point. Remember that Sony is not just selling games here. Sony appears to be handily winning the worldwide HD format war at this point. It's very important to get those consoles out there to finish off that format war. Even at millions of dollars, it's well worth it to Sony to improve their installed base and likely close out the format war to the point where they literally control the HD media market in all the main worldwide markets.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Dola

This is great, i have shared all the media from my PC in 1 minute and now i can plug my PS3 in another room to the TV, have my home wireless network enabled and to watch in the PS3+TV all the divx movies, listen to all the music, watch all the photos, etc that i have stored in my PC, all streamed in real time.

Yes, it was an extremely nice upgrade. I've noticed some improvement in DVD's on the PS3. The place where I saw the most improvement was on the PS2 games. They did a great job of upconverting those graphics. GT4 and San Andreas are much improved.

[spleen1015]

Dola

This is great, i have shared all the media from my PC in 1 minute and now i can plug my PS3 in another room to the TV, have my home wireless network enabled and to watch in the PS3+TV all the divx movies, listen to all the music, watch all the photos, etc that i have stored in my PC, all streamed in real time.

This is one of the coolest features I like about the 360.

[Bee]

I honestly think that keeping this game exclusive at any price is a must for Sony. The future health of this console depends on it. It wouldn't shock anyone if 3-4M PS3 units went off the shelves in the month or two following the FF XIII release. Japan alone would move 2 million units. I think that's the reason for the prolonged negotiations. Square is aware of this and is going to take a pretty penny off Sony in the process. Installed base is more important than profit in my estimation at this point. Remember that Sony is not just selling games here. Sony appears to be handily winning the worldwide HD format war at this point. It's very important to get those consoles out there to finish off that format war. Even at millions of dollars, it's well worth it to Sony to improve their installed base and likely close out the format war to the point where they literally control the HD media market in all the main worldwide markets.

I read an article a couple days ago that indicated the Blu-ray sales advantage over HD-DVD has closed somewhat and is now closer to a 60:40 rate than the 2:1 rate it had been. Of course, those types of fluctuations aren't really surprising when you're dealing with such a small market so it could be meaningless.

[Chubby]

I read an article a couple days ago that indicated the Blu-ray sales advantage over HD-DVD has closed somewhat and is now closer to a 60:40 rate than the 2:1 rate it had been. Of course, those types of fluctuations aren't really surprising when you're dealing with such a small market so it could be meaningless.
a 6% swing isn't really that big anyways

[Coder]

Dola

This is great, i have shared all the media from my PC in 1 minute and now i can plug my PS3 in another room to the TV, have my home wireless network enabled and to watch in the PS3+TV all the divx movies, listen to all the music, watch all the photos, etc that i have stored in my PC, all streamed in real time.

How does this work technically? Do you install any software on the PC, or does the PS3 actually access the network and has built-in codecs for DivX?

I'm currently running Orb on my "server"-machine and stream video/audio etc to my 360 and Wii (Wii is quieter, so I mostly use it). However, it uses up resources on the server machine, which I think is unnecessary, but the reason is that the Wii and the 360 can't play DivX, so Orb goes all Youtube on my DivX files and convert them and stream them in real-time. This means worse quality than if I look at them over my network on another computer.

[Synovia]

Not when your dealing with a franchise that has been solely based on Sony systems up to this point and is considered the cornerstone franchise of that system. I know it's fun to go through the 'what-ifs', but when it comes down to it, if Sony wants the game on their console, they're going to have it. The only question is price.

"Not when your dealing with a franchise that has been solely based on Sony systems" The franchise spent 10 years + on nintendo. I wouldnt be surprised to see it switch, or go non-exclusive. Staying on Sony is only to Square's advantage if Sony gives them enough money to offset all the potential sales on other systems. With how poorly the PS3 is doing, thats going to need to be an assload of cash.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I read an article a couple days ago that indicated the Blu-ray sales advantage over HD-DVD has closed somewhat and is now closer to a 60:40 rate than the 2:1 rate it had been. Of course, those types of fluctuations aren't really surprising when you're dealing with such a small market so it could be meaningless.

Here's the rough numbers in the 3 major markets:

---Japan is 96-4 in favor of Blu-Ray

---Europe is 65-35 in favor of Blu-Ray. It should be noted that before the PS3 release two months ago, HD-DVD was ahead by a sizable margin. Blu-ray is currently outselling HD-DVD at a 3:1 margin.

---U.S. is currently 62-38 in favor of Blu-ray. You are correct that the Blu-ray sales margin has diminished slightly, but that has more to do with the drop in demand for Casino Royal than anything else. That disc really pumped up the sales for awhile. Pirates of the Caribbean may boost the BR sales again. It's a Disney movie, which is also a BR exclusive.

[Bee]

a 6% swing isn't really that big anyways

I don't know...a 6% swing of market share isn't something to sneeze at. In any case, as I said it's probably meaningless when talking about such a relatively small market.

[Eaglesfan27]

"Not when your dealing with a franchise that has been solely based on Sony systems" The franchise spent 10 years + on nintendo. I wouldnt be surprised to see it switch, or go non-exclusive. Staying on Sony is only to Square's advantage if Sony gives them enough money to offset all the potential sales on other systems. With how poorly the PS3 is doing, thats going to need to be an assload of cash.


Exactly. I wouldn't expect Square to show loyalty to anything other than the buck. I suspect it will make the most financial sense for them to release it multi-platform.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Exactly. I wouldn't expect Square to show loyalty to anything other than the buck. I suspect it will make the most financial sense for them to release it multi-platform.

The holiday sales will obviously go a long way in that regard. Hence the reason I think Sony will chop the price on its console in October and ensure that their installed base increases and makes it more likely they stay on the PS3.

[Bee]

Here's the rough numbers in the 3 major markets:

---Japan is 96-4 in favor of Blu-Ray

---Europe is 65-35 in favor of Blu-Ray. It should be noted that before the PS3 release two months ago, HD-DVD was ahead by a sizable margin. Blu-ray is currently outselling HD-DVD at a 3:1 margin.

---U.S. is currently 62-38 in favor of Blu-ray. You are correct that the Blu-ray sales margin has diminished slightly, but that has more to do with the drop in demand for Casino Royal than anything else. That disc really pumped up the sales for awhile. Pirates of the Caribbean may boost the BR sales again. It's a Disney movie, which is also a BR exclusive.

I don't really remember all the details in the article because the whole thing isn't that big of a deal to me (I just want someone to win and prices to come down :D). The one thing that did stick with me from the article though was how small the market for HD media was compare to the SD DVD media. While I knew that the HD format market was relatively small, I didn't realize how small.

[Bee]

As far as the Final Fantasy thing, I think even if Sony were to get a limited time exclusive release it would be a huge bump for them especially in Japan. I think the gamers who would be willing to buy a console because of a release like Final Fantasy will not want to wait 4-6 months for the game to come out on a different console. I could be wrong, but that's just my gut instinct.

[sabotai]

As far as the Final Fantasy thing, I think even if Sony were to get a limited time exclusive release it would be a huge bump for them especially in Japan. I think the gamers who would be willing to buy a console because of a release like Final Fantasy will not want to wait 4-6 months for the game to come out on a different console. I could be wrong, but that's just my gut instinct.

If I have to wait 4-6 months for the game to come out on the 360, then I'll do it so I don't have to pay $600 for the console to play it on (since I already have a 360). If it's PS3 exlusive, Sony will get my money.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

If I have to wait 4-6 months for the game to come out on the 360, then I'll do it so I don't have to pay $600 for the console to play it on (since I already have a 360). If it's PS3 exlusive, Sony will get my money.

I think that would be the most common thought from 360 owners in the U.S. With the increased price points on the consoles, timed exclusives aren't nearly as effective because people are likely to wait it out due to price sensitivity rather than pay $700 for a console and game. Sole exclusive is the only way Sony can get the major boost in console sales.

[Bee]

If I have to wait 4-6 months for the game to come out on the 360, then I'll do it so I don't have to pay $600 for the console to play it on (since I already have a 360). If it's PS3 exlusive, Sony will get my money.

Yep, I was thinking more about all the people who don't own a 360 which was why I mentioned Japan. It's definitely not going to be as big of a bump as if it were totally exclusive but I think it would still be a bump (especially in Japan where no one owns a 360 ;)).

[Icy]

How does this work technically? Do you install any software on the PC, or does the PS3 actually access the network and has built-in codecs for DivX?

I'm currently running Orb on my "server"-machine and stream video/audio etc to my 360 and Wii (Wii is quieter, so I mostly use it). However, it uses up resources on the server machine, which I think is unnecessary, but the reason is that the Wii and the 360 can't play DivX, so Orb goes all Youtube on my DivX files and convert them and stream them in real-time. This means worse quality than if I look at them over my network on another computer.

You just need Windows media player 11 in your PC (funny as it's a Microsoft software) and enable media sharing in it. Then the PC content appears in your PS3 organized by author, style, etc.

[Coder]

You just need Windows media player 11 in your PC (funny as it's a Microsoft software) and enable media sharing in it. Then the PC content appears in your PS3 organized by author, style, etc.

Sounds like it's similar to TVersity and Orb then.. how much does the picture quality suffer?

[Izulde]

Not only was the FF series originally a Nintendo exclusive (the jump to Sony was incredible news at the time), but Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles (aka the last gen's FF Mystic Quest) was released for the Gamecube as an exclusive.

[Eaglesfan27]

Sony is being sued again for a patent violation - this time re: the Blu Ray technology in the PS3. The last lawsuit cost them 97 million. I wonder how much this one will cost.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6171498.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;1

[SackAttack]

EF27, depends on the resolution. I see three outcomes:

1) Sony wins going away, smacks down Target.
2) Sony settles, either immediately to make it go away, or after a protracted lawsuit, in shades of Immersion
3) Sony not only loses hard, but Target refuses to license the patent to Sony, forcing them to pull the plug on Blu-ray.

The first costs court and lawyer fees. The second would likely be more substantial than $97MM, but still a drop in the bucket relative to what they expect to make in the long haul if Blu-ray wins.

The third is the most damaging, because not only are they liable for damages, penalties, etc, but they lose all that future cash that was supposed to make up for R&D costs and have them swimming in green. #3 could seriously kill Sony as a viable business.

[Butter]

In a related story, a Target Tech. Corp. exec. was seen shopping for 3+ carat engagement rings this week...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Found this amusing. I think I should call this guy this guy out for using my previous posts as story material. Basically states that a $100 price drop may not be enough for the PS3 and that they need to drop it $150-200 to have an impact. I said that a few days ago, but surely he doesn't read the FOF board........:)

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16277

[Eaglesfan27]

This seems like a good place to post these questions:

Do all of the current PS3's being sold in the USA still have the PS2 chip to playback 100% of games? Does anyone have a time table on when they are going to phase out that chip and strictly rely on software emulation like they do in Europe?

Our PS2 is starting to die and my wife wants to get a PS3 if it will play all of our old games. She wants me to find out if the ones currently on sale in the USA have the chip or not and I trust people here more than a couple of guys I don't know who responded on OS.

[SackAttack]

This seems like a good place to post these questions:

Do all of the current PS3's being sold in the USA still have the PS2 chip to playback 100% of games? Does anyone have a time table on when they are going to phase out that chip and strictly rely on software emulation like they do in Europe?

Our PS2 is starting to die and my wife wants to get a PS3 if it will play all of our old games. She wants me to find out if the ones currently on sale in the USA have the chip or not and I trust people here more than a couple of guys I don't know who responded on OS.

If getting the PS3 is your wife's idea, and all she wants it for is to play old games if your PS2 is dying at the moment, smack her upside the head (nicely). That's about $470 you don't really need to spend right now, if that's the case. You could buy a PS2 for $129 and get a PS3 later when it hits $449 or less and spend the same amount.

Now, if this is EF27 wanting a PS3, and the wife agreeing IF etc, then so far, yes, the US still has the Emotion Engine.

[Eaglesfan27]

If getting the PS3 is your wife's idea, and all she wants it for is to play old games if your PS2 is dying at the moment, smack her upside the head (nicely). That's about $470 you don't really need to spend right now, if that's the case. You could buy a PS2 for $129 and get a PS3 later when it hits $449 or less and spend the same amount.

Now, if this is EF27 wanting a PS3, and the wife agreeing IF etc, then so far, yes, the US still has the Emotion Engine.


I don't really want it right now as MLB the show is the only game that I would buy. However, if FFXIII ends up being exclusive and a few other good exclusives come out next year, I'm sure I'll want it then. I guess I'm weighing the cost/benefit of buying now vs buying later when the Emotion Engine will be gone and backwards compatibility could be more of a problem. Buying a PS3 now will save me 129 assuming my PS2 dies within the next few weeks which looks likely based on the odd sounds it was making today. I'm guessing it will take longer than a year for the PS3 price to drop 129 dollars, but I might be surprised. Anyway, I'm just going to wait and see what happens with our current PS2 (which is at least 4 years old) before making any decisions. Then again, thinking about that reliability, it does make sense to just replace the PS2 and not worry about the future backward compatibility issues with the PS3.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I don't really want it right now as MLB the show is the only game that I would buy. However, if FFXIII ends up being exclusive and a few other good exclusives come out next year, I'm sure I'll want it then. I guess I'm weighing the cost/benefit of buying now vs buying later when the Emotion Engine will be gone and backwards compatibility could be more of a problem. Buying a PS3 now will save me 129 assuming my PS2 dies within the next few weeks which looks likely based on the odd sounds it was making today. I'm guessing it will take longer than a year for the PS3 price to drop 129 dollars, but I might be surprised. Anyway, I'm just going to wait and see what happens with our current PS2 (which is at least 4 years old) before making any decisions. Then again, thinking about that reliability, it does make sense to just replace the PS2 and not worry about the future backward compatibility issues with the PS3.

The chip is still in the machine at this point. I believe that it's going to be taken out pretty quickly though. Obviously, it's cheaper for them to make the machine without the chip. Also, it should be noted that the PS/PS2 games and DVD's are now upscaled in the most recent system update. It is a nice improvement.

You're probably good as far as getting the Emotion chip through at least the end of the summer as the stock on hand is pretty good right now. I remember reading in a Euro article around the Euro launch that they want to start moving out the chip in the U.S./Japan version by the end of summer to increase their cost margin.

[SackAttack]

I don't really want it right now as MLB the show is the only game that I would buy. However, if FFXIII ends up being exclusive and a few other good exclusives come out next year, I'm sure I'll want it then. I guess I'm weighing the cost/benefit of buying now vs buying later when the Emotion Engine will be gone and backwards compatibility could be more of a problem. Buying a PS3 now will save me 129 assuming my PS2 dies within the next few weeks which looks likely based on the odd sounds it was making today. I'm guessing it will take longer than a year for the PS3 price to drop 129 dollars, but I might be surprised. Anyway, I'm just going to wait and see what happens with our current PS2 (which is at least 4 years old) before making any decisions. Then again, thinking about that reliability, it does make sense to just replace the PS2 and not worry about the future backward compatibility issues with the PS3.

Sure, but the other thing to consider is how long PS2 games, even upscaled, will be an attractive proposition on your PS3. When I first got my PS2, a week after it came out, I played almost exclusively PS1 games for about 3 months, because there really wasn't anything else except for SSX.

I've since tried a couple times to get through FFVII, but that's been it for my PS1 playtime once serious PS2 games started coming out.

If you're really not that worried about a PS3 until the PS3 games you want start coming out, are you even going to have time for PS2 games on the system? If not, that leaves your wife, and for how long until she gets distracted by a PS3 game as well?

[stevew]

I'd go for the ps3, but only if your DVD player is also looking like it may crap out in the near future. Now that it upscales DVD's as well, and also plays Blu ray's it may be a decent fit for your personal situation. Some places honor price drops for 30 days...E3 is coming up, maybe they'll drop it then? If you don't buy one for a few weeks, it will put you within that 30 day window.

[spleen1015]

I wouldn't waste my money on a PS3 right now. I just replaced my PS2 a few weeks ago. There is no guarantee that there will be any games that warrants me to ever get one. I don't even think Final Fantasy is interesting enough for me to get one.

[Daimyo]

Saw my first Wii at a Walmart over the weekend and bought it. Later saw two in Target.

[Eaglesfan27]

Sure, but the other thing to consider is how long PS2 games, even upscaled, will be an attractive proposition on your PS3. When I first got my PS2, a week after it came out, I played almost exclusively PS1 games for about 3 months, because there really wasn't anything else except for SSX.

I've since tried a couple times to get through FFVII, but that's been it for my PS1 playtime once serious PS2 games started coming out.

If you're really not that worried about a PS3 until the PS3 games you want start coming out, are you even going to have time for PS2 games on the system? If not, that leaves your wife, and for how long until she gets distracted by a PS3 game as well?


My wife still regularly plays both PS1 and PS2 games on the PS2. She loves Theme Hospital and has "beat" it at least a dozen times over the years (I'll be buying the new Hospital Sim game for the PC next week when it comes out for her as a surprise.) She replays old Final Fantasy games, old style RPG's. She doesn't like many of the newer games. The only 360 game she plays sometimes is Burnout. She didn't even like Viva Pinata for some reason, although I thought she would.

The more I think about it, I think I'll just go with another PS2 for now. We'll keep that on the downstairs TV which will lead to less competition for the TV if she wants to play that while I want to play the 360.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Saw my first Wii at a Walmart over the weekend and bought it. Later saw two in Target.

Yeah, I saw 5+ Wii's at 3 different stores last night. Looks like the supply shortage has run its course.

[Maple Leafs]

So would a Wii be worth picking up for a casual gamer? I don't really see any games that interest me but I've heard that even the basic stuff is pretty fun, and it's been a while I really had some simple fun with a console game.

[MJ4H]

Yes. It is geared towards the casual gamer.

[Atocep]

So would a Wii be worth picking up for a casual gamer? I don't really see any games that interest me but I've heard that even the basic stuff is pretty fun, and it's been a while I really had some simple fun with a console game.

I probably play console games around 3-4 hours per week, on average. I bought a Wii and that spiked to about 10 hours the first week and has fallen back down to my average since. Its a fantastic console for casual gamers. Its something you pick up and its immediately fun. Wii sports and Wii Play are great for learning the controls and there's quite a few "fun" games out there.

I primarily picked mine up for my 5 year old son to introduce him to video games. If I allowed, he'd play it 7-8 hours per day and quite possibly more than that. If you have kids or ever have kids over to your house, they'll love it.

I certainly classify myself as a casual gamer and I don't regret the purchase one bit. There's been a few games I didn't think I'd be interested in, but the control scheme just changes the way you play games.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

So would a Wii be worth picking up for a casual gamer? I don't really see any games that interest me but I've heard that even the basic stuff is pretty fun, and it's been a while I really had some simple fun with a console game.

Casual gaming is the only reason to buy a Wii. I bought it and people play it at my poker games once they get knocked out of the tourney, mainly Wii Sports. The problem with the Wii right now is that, outside of two Mario titles and possibly Zelda, there's just nothing to buy right now. There's a lot of really average to bad games for the Wii that aren't worth $50 under any circumstances. However, if you have kids, it's a great system to have fun with them without gameplay that's too complicated. Easy pick-up fun.

I use my PS3 for my single player gaming, usually careers in sports games and some RPG games. 360 owners likely do the same. The Wii provides a lot of fun in short bursts from gaming, but it doesn't scratch all the itches for most gamers.

[MJ4H]

To be fair, the heavy hitters for Wii are coming later this summer and in the fall. The future is pretty bright for the Wii. However, it is true that the present is a bit dire. Aside from Trauma Center, Elebits, Excitebike, and Zelda/Mario, and a few others the rest is pretty much garbage. I do keep hearing good things about Dragonball Z Budokai Tenkaichi (sp?!?!?!?) though. Mortal Kombat Armageddon was just released in a similar game genre.

EDIT: spelling "there" shouldv'e been "the"

[dawgfan]

Aside from Trauma Center, Elebits, Excitebike, and Zelda/Mario, there rest is pretty much garbage.
I think WarioWare and Rayman are also top-notch.

[MJ4H]

Yeah I might have forgot a few decent to good ones, but I was mainly trying to hit the more in-depth games over the mini-game collections.

[sterlingice]

There's a lot of really average to bad games for the Wii that aren't worth $50 under any circumstances.

I think that's true of every single system ever put out. The difference is how many of those crap games you have to go past on the shelf to get to something worth owning. The original Playstation had some of the best games ever but, man, the ratio was awful. Same for the NES- the sheer amount of crap games to decent games had to be 4:1 or worse.

SI

[Groundhog]

We have Wii Sports and Rayman, and both are a lot of fun. Our Wii is definately more of a "drinking game" at my place though. It rarely gets used unless we have people around and have cracked out some beers.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

To be fair, the heavy hitters for Wii are coming later this summer and in the fall. The future is pretty bright for the Wii. However, it is true that the present is a bit dire. Aside from Trauma Center, Elebits, Excitebike, and Zelda/Mario, there rest is pretty much garbage. I do keep hearing good things about Dragonball Z Budokai Tenkaichi (sp?!?!?!?) though. Mortal Kombat Armageddon was just released in a similar game genre.

Yeah, but if we make a qualification for games on the way in the fall, the future is pretty bright for the PS3. :)

Trauma Center has some control issues where it doesn't work nearly as well as its DS counterpart. Excitebike is a 20+ year old game, so I'm not sure that counts as a good, new game. Excite Truck is certainly not a very good game either. The controls work fine regarding the driving, but it's just not a whole lot of fun overall.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

We have Wii Sports and Rayman, and both are a lot of fun. Our Wii is definately more of a "drinking game" at my place though. It rarely gets used unless we have people around and have cracked out some beers.

That's exactly how we use it. It's just not a good system overall for single player gaming. If you're someone who has people over pretty often, it's a great system to have. If it's just you playing the game most of the time, you're better off getting a 360 or a PS3.

[albionmoonlight]

I'm sure that somewhere in the pages and pages of threads someone has made this point, but I don't recall seeing it.

I was talking to a friend last night, and his take on the whole thing was that Sony taking such a hit on the PS3 in order to win the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format war was bad business because we are all very close to just being able to download HD movies and other content for purchase or rental. In his view, no company should be putting a lot of eggs into the next generation of a physical medium because we are just about past really needing physical media. Companies should be much more concerned about getting a piece of the content that will be distributed, the channels through which it will be downloaded, and the enormous memory devices that people will have on their entertainment centers in order to store the content.

I have no idea if this makes sense or not, but it sounds like it makes sense.

[spleen1015]

That's exactly how we use it. It's just not a good system overall for single player gaming. If you're someone who has people over pretty often, it's a great system to have. If it's just you playing the game most of the time, you're better off getting a 360 or a PS3.

The Wii is not any worse at single player gaming than the PS3 is.

[MJ4H]

Yeah, but if we make a qualification for games on the way in the fall, the future is pretty bright for the PS3. :)

Trauma Center has some control issues where it doesn't work nearly as well as its DS counterpart. Excitebike is a 20+ year old game, so I'm not sure that counts as a good, new game. Excite Truck is certainly not a very good game either. The controls work fine regarding the driving, but it's just not a whole lot of fun overall.

I was not making any comments about the PS3 so I'm not sure what that has to do with this. I was talking about the Wii. The question was about whether it is worth it to get a Wii or not and I was trying to help make an informed decision. The games that are upcoming certainly DO qualify. My prediction is that pretty much the same thing is going to happen for the Wii that happened for the DS. The first year or so will be kind of boring game-wise and then, once companies have had time to figure out the new control system, what works and what doesn't, games will start pouring out. The DS exploded after a similar start to the Wii (with regards to available games). This is a very valid point for someone considering purchasing the console.

As far as the games you mentioned problems with:

Trauma Center controls fine for me. Excitetruck is obviously what I meant. I certainly find it fun and many others do, too.

[TroyF]

Yeah, but if we make a qualification for games on the way in the fall, the future is pretty bright for the PS3. :)

Trauma Center has some control issues where it doesn't work nearly as well as its DS counterpart. Excitebike is a 20+ year old game, so I'm not sure that counts as a good, new game. Excite Truck is certainly not a very good game either. The controls work fine regarding the driving, but it's just not a whole lot of fun overall.

I've played both Trauma Center and Excite Truck and both are enjoyable games. Every bit as much fun as MLB: The Show for the PS3. (which is so buggy that I'm about to give up on it)

The Wii is a terrific system and will stay that way. It built its own niche, has a ridiculously large install base and will be just fine for a couple of years at least. The PS3 continues to be in deep crap. The 360 continues to make dumb decisions but are going to be successful in spite of that because of the constant stream of A+ titles coming out for the system.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I was not making any comments about the PS3 so I'm not sure what that has to do with this. I was talking about the Wii. The question was about whether it is worth it to get a Wii or not and I was trying to help make an informed decision.

As far as the games you mentioned problems with:

Trauma Center controls fine for me. Excitetruck is obviously what I meant. I certainly find it fun and many others do, too.

Think you missed my point. All systems have games coming out in the future that will be great games. I just used the PS3 as an example because it and the Wii are both suffering from a total lack of good games right now. Also, a decision should never be made based on future games because, as we gamers know, there is a long list of titles that were continuously delayed or cancelled after months of hype calling it the next great think to hit the console. Buyer beware if you're making decisions based on games that far out.

General impressions of those two games were neutral at best. They haven't done very well on the sales lists either. I personally wouldn't spend more than $20 on either of those titles.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The Wii is not any worse at single player gaming than the PS3 is.

Interesting you only focused on part of my original comment that included the 360. The Wii is a party gaming system. Outside of Paper Mario and Zelda, there's no game that has any really good single player modes. Both the PS3 and 360 have games with better single player modes.

Also, the Wii online gaming component is cumbersome and non-existant from a player's perspective. That needs to improve drastically. I'm not that much of an online gamer, so that doesn't bother me personally, but I know there are a lot of gamers that solely play online.

[MJ4H]

I don't think I missed your point. I was responding to MapleLeafs who was asking about the Wii. Other consoles and their futures were not relevant to what I was saying.

I completely disagree about not basing decisions based on future games. That is ridiculous. These are games with release dates and videos/screenshots/hands-on impressions freely available.

Fine, you didn't like the games. They were still quite good.

Some quotes from reviews of Trauma Center for Wii about the controls:

"The controls feel extremely fluid and aren't clumsy at all. In fact, I much prefer the Wii controls to the DS touch screen thus far. I was worried I would miss having a surface and strict 2D plane to work in, but it's not a problem at all with the Wii Remote. Being able to choose your implements with the Nunchuk is quicker and more efficient than having to first tap the tool to use ala the DS version."

"In fact, I would go as far as to say that the control scheme for Second Opinion stands as a showpiece for the Wii and second only to Wii Sports as the title that best exemplifies what the Wii controller is all about."

It's fine if you don't like a game, and ExciteTruck is apparently an acquired taste. I know many that rave about the game and can't believe people don't like it. Then there are people that call it a tech demo. The reviews on it are mostly middle of the road. I personally think it is a blast. And I think Trauma Center is brilliant. Both worth full price.

[MJ4H]

Also, the Wii online gaming component is cumbersome and non-existant from a player's perspective. That needs to improve drastically. I'm not that much of an online gamer, so that doesn't bother me personally, but I know there are a lot of gamers that solely play online.

The Wii doesn't have any online games out yet. Mario Strikers is out in Europe and is online: a huge success. I don't think enough is known about Nintendo's strategy yet to say it is "cumbersome" or non-existent." For instance, it was only very recently announced that friend rosters and Miis are going to be connected (which means the argument about friend codes being cumbersome is right out the window). But, we still need to see examples of its implementation before we can judge for sure. The only knock on Wii's online that is legitimate is that it is late.

[MJ4H]

Interesting you only focused on part of my original comment that included the 360. The Wii is a party gaming system. Outside of Paper Mario and Zelda, there's no game that has any really good single player modes. Both the PS3 and 360 have games with better single player modes.



Except for, oh, Rayman, Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi, Mortal Kombat Armageddon, Excite Truck, Trauma Center, Madden, Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz, Tony Hawk, Super Swing Golf, Call of Duty 3, Elebits, Wario Ware, Sonic and the Secret Rings. All of these have really good single player modes.

[spleen1015]

Interesting you only focused on part of my original comment that included the 360. The Wii is a party gaming system. Outside of Paper Mario and Zelda, there's no game that has any really good single player modes. Both the PS3 and 360 have games with better single player modes.

Also, the Wii online gaming component is cumbersome and non-existant from a player's perspective. That needs to improve drastically. I'm not that much of an online gamer, so that doesn't bother me personally, but I know there are a lot of gamers that solely play online.

One thing that you do that you shouldn't is ignore the Virtual Console aspect of the Wii. There are games on the virtual console that make the Wii worth owning before the PS3.

What games on the PS3 have better single player experiences than Zelda or Paper Mario? IMO, none.

I'm not much of an online gamer either, outside of WoW. Most of the popular online games aren't my cup of tea. So, I don't use that as a measurement for me.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The Wii doesn't have any online games out yet. Mario Strikers is out in Europe and is online: a huge success. I don't think enough is known about Nintendo's strategy yet to say it is "cumbersome" or non-existent." For instance, it was only very recently announced that friend rosters and Miis are going to be connected (which means the argument about friend codes being cumbersome is right out the window). But, we still need to see examples of its implementation before we can judge for sure. The only knock on Wii's online that is legitimate is that it is late.

As you said, cleaning up the friend code disaster should help. But there are still third party developers complaining that they STILL don't have access to the online developement tools. There was a lot of fuss that some of the early PS3 third-party games weren't online. They've got that finally cleared up and the Wii is STILL without online play. That's not good at all. They're succeeding in spite of their online blunders. Imagine what Wii Sports would be if you could play online. They'd be selling even more consoles if that was the case. Even people who were home alone could then enjoy multiplayer gaming.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Except for, oh, Rayman, Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi, Mortal Kombat Armageddon, Excite Truck, Trauma Center, Madden, Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz, Tony Hawk, Super Swing Golf, Call of Duty 3, Elebits, Wario Ware, Sonic and the Secret Rings. All of these have really good single player modes.

If you think all of those games have good single-player modes (or are even good ports), then I'll state you have a right to your opinion and leave it at that.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

One thing that you do that you shouldn't is ignore the Virtual Console aspect of the Wii. There are games on the virtual console that make the Wii worth owning before the PS3.

What games on the PS3 have better single player experiences than Zelda or Paper Mario? IMO, none.

The Virtual Console is a money grab and nothing more. You can play those games for free on a PC or buy a used console and play those games if you want to really play them. The same thing goes for the retro games on the 360 and PS3. It's straight profit for them and that's why they do it. I'm actually happy with the PS3 because they are actually putting out original games in their online store.

As I stated in the post you quoted, I agree that Zelda and Paper Mario have very good single-player modes. No disagreement at all.

[MJ4H]

If you think all of those games have good single-player modes (or are even good ports), then I'll state you have a right to your opinion and leave it at that.

Absolutely. In fact, the "general opinion" is that the Wii version of Madden is the most fun one.

[MJ4H]

You can play those games for free on a PC

Of course, this is illegal if you don't already own the cartridge.

[MJ4H]

the Wii is STILL without online play.

See Mario Strikers.

[spleen1015]

The Virtual Console is a money grab and nothing more. You can play those games for free on a PC or buy a used console and play those games if you want to really play them. The same thing goes for the retro games on the 360 and PS3. It's straight profit for them and that's why they do it. I'm actually happy with the PS3 because they are actually putting out original games in their online store.

As I stated in the post you quoted, I agree that Zelda and Paper Mario have very good single-player modes. No disagreement at all.

I'd venture to guess that it is the big geeks like you and I that know we can go download an emulator and play on the PC. There are a lot of people who don't know about it or find the idea wrong in some way.

Case and point, I have a friend who loves A Link to the Past. He refused to get an emulator and play on the PC. Yet, he took the day off when it was released on the VC so that he could play it.

The average person doesn't know what is available to them. You don't think the VC influences whether or not people are going to buy a Wii?

[dawgfan]

I'm sure that somewhere in the pages and pages of threads someone has made this point, but I don't recall seeing it.

I was talking to a friend last night, and his take on the whole thing was that Sony taking such a hit on the PS3 in order to win the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format war was bad business because we are all very close to just being able to download HD movies and other content for purchase or rental. In his view, no company should be putting a lot of eggs into the next generation of a physical medium because we are just about past really needing physical media. Companies should be much more concerned about getting a piece of the content that will be distributed, the channels through which it will be downloaded, and the enormous memory devices that people will have on their entertainment centers in order to store the content.

I have no idea if this makes sense or not, but it sounds like it makes sense.
I've been making this point for a while now...:)

[dawgfan]

The same thing goes for the retro games on the 360 and PS3. It's straight profit for them and that's why they do it. I'm actually happy with the PS3 because they are actually putting out original games in their online store.
Lets not pretend that there aren't original and very entertaining games available on Xbox Live.

[MJ4H]

There are also hints at original content for the VC, incidentally, but it is just rumors at this point. I think it was either strongly suggested or confirmed fairly recently, though. I'd have to look that up because it's not an area I'm particularly interested in, but I could be down the road I guess.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lets not pretend that there aren't original and very entertaining games available on Xbox Live.

Yes, but I prefer to only comment on stuff I've actually experienced in that regard. I do know that there are a few original games for the 360. I have a Wii and PS3, so I can personally comment on my experiences with those two consoles.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm sure that somewhere in the pages and pages of threads someone has made this point, but I don't recall seeing it.

I was talking to a friend last night, and his take on the whole thing was that Sony taking such a hit on the PS3 in order to win the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format war was bad business because we are all very close to just being able to download HD movies and other content for purchase or rental. In his view, no company should be putting a lot of eggs into the next generation of a physical medium because we are just about past really needing physical media. Companies should be much more concerned about getting a piece of the content that will be distributed, the channels through which it will be downloaded, and the enormous memory devices that people will have on their entertainment centers in order to store the content.

I have no idea if this makes sense or not, but it sounds like it makes sense.

Let's assume this actually happens. If that were the case, people would have media on their hard drives. People aren't going to pass hard drives around to watch each other's movies. They're going to burn that media to a large capacity medium like a jump drive or disc. Sony's going to make money in that case as well assuming they win the format war. They're going to sell a ton of those discs that people use to back up their media. I agree that replacement will happen in the future, but it's still not to that point yet.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of FFXIII info in this interview in LEVEL magazine. There's a lot of info in this interview of the developers that suggests FFXIII and Versus will be PS3 exclusives, which is obviously a big deal for Sony........

About Fabula Nova Crystallis in general:

Motomu Toriyama: "The development of the three games was started at the same time and we gathered to try and find a common platform to stand on and try to build from. But since then, we've been working completely independently of each other. Each game is evolving in its own direction and take place in separate worlds with their own main characters. There exists basically no cooperation between the different teams. I wouldn't even want to claim that we communicate with each other."

Tetsuya Nomura: "The only similarity between the games that you can find is in the vague crystal theme."

About Crisis Core:

Hajime Tabata: "There's a reason why this game is released last [note: what about the 20 years of FFVII?]. This is one of Square Enix's most important moments, when we're about to tell the story that leads up to maybe the most beloved RPG of them all. So we've taken our time and prepared us well."

Q: "How much do you listen to the opinions of the fans?"

A: "All I can say is that you encounter characters from the original game in Crisis Core. But you have to have in mind that this is a game about Zack and the Soldier organization. So even if the fans' opinions are important, I won't risk to destroy the central theme by throwing in loved characters who would disrupt the balance in the game."

About FFXIII:

Q: "How does it effect you, and Square Enix, that FFXIII is such a big project that it's been divided in a lot of separate projects?"

Toriyama:"We've definitely been forced to change our habits and work in new ways. In the center you have the crystals that define Final Fantasy and unite the three XIII projects. But every single game is evolving in its own direction and take place in their own worlds with their own characters. Nomura has designed Lightning, but she's our character."

Q: "So who is she then?"

A: "I can't say much more than that she likes to call herself that. And that she's a female character who's vastly different compared to Yuna."

Q: "Ten years ago, Final Fantasy VII became a symbol to the entire PlayStation format. Could FFXIII come to mean as much for the PS3?"

A:"FFVII was a milestone in PS history. The game changed the entire RPG genre and set a lot of new trends. Strictly content-wise, the theme alternated between fantasy and futurism and we're doing something similar with FFXIII. The game mixes a new kind of fantasy with futuristic elements that have never been seen in a game before. It's very interesting to explore the new hardware. When you've managed to harness the power in it the results become unbelievable. We're accomplishing things you hardly can manage without the PS3."

Q:"So there will be a mix between fantasy and sci-fi again?"

A: "Last time, our time worked with the Asian-influenced world in FFX and wanted to do something completely different this time around. So we took the futuristic theme to its limit. FFXIII will truly define the term futurism. You've never seen anything like it."

Q:"You've worked at Square Enix for a long time, but this is the first time you're in charge of such a big FF project. How do you cope with the pressure?"

A: "The difference between the side projects and the big games, the one with numbers, isn't really that big. I know I have to deliver, but I knew that when I worked on Revenant Wings as well. The pressure from outside is almost worse. A lot of people view FFXIII as a title that can decide the success for the PS3. But I can't think about that. We've had a lot of time on our hands to prepare our game, and now we're working full-speed."

Q: "If you look past the visuals, how will FFXIII be a game for the next generation?"

A: "It's never solely about graphics, but at the same time you can't deny the meaning of the looks for the experience as a whole. The technique allows us to create characters so realistic that the player perceives them as being alive. It adds something emotional to the entire game experience. Which in its turn makes the combat system feel different since you care about the characters and you feel for them in a way that you've never done before. When you play FFXIII, it feels like you're controlling something that's not a 3D model, but a real creature."

About Versus:

Nomura: "There's been times when I've wanted to take FF in a completely different direction than the game's producer has wanted. I'm not saying that his or mine opinions have been right or wrong, just different. One thing I've always wanted to explore deeper is human emotions. By going in that direction, you risk to make the target group for the game narrower, and FF is appreciated by a very large audience. But with Versus XIII, it feels like the right time to take that risk. Since the script isn't done yet, I still don't know exactly how far I dare to go, but I know I want to squeeze humanity out of these characters. I want Versus to feel in the entire body."

Q: "You've also said that this is going to be the darkest FF game ever."

A: "When I produced Kingdom Hearts, I was in a world so bright that I almost got blinded. So now I want to do something completely different. Maybe it has something to do with my love for extremes. FFvXIII is about man in the real world. In that sense, the game will contain less fantasy than usual We've created some dark environments and shown them in our trailers. But the entire game won't look like that; we've only just begun."

Q: "When you talk about the real world, do you mean modern life on Earth?"

A: "I don't want the characters in the game to feel fabricated, so my focus lies on designing them through their humanity. They have to be perceived as humans, as someone you and I could meet in reality. The world in Versus is reminiscent with the one we live in today. That doesn't mean I'm inspired by locations or persons that actually exist, it's more of a feeling that the characters and locations are believeable, like something you'd be able to find in your daily life. I want to take this concept and make it into an FF experience. That's the challenge I've given myself, anyway."

Q: "So that's how you will use the power of the PS3?"

A: "The PS3 is such a powerful machine that the technical possibilities have a great influence over the game design and in the end, the entire game experience. I can't go into details about my ideas, but many of them would never have been possible during the last console generation."

[TroyF]

Except for, oh, Rayman, Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi, Mortal Kombat Armageddon, Excite Truck, Trauma Center, Madden, Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz, Tony Hawk, Super Swing Golf, Call of Duty 3, Elebits, Wario Ware, Sonic and the Secret Rings. All of these have really good single player modes.

Honestly, I can't believe you forgot Wii Sports. I can play the bowling and mini games all the time. It is terrific in single player. Paper Mario and Zelda are terrific games. While the Wii needs more titles, I think the titles it has destroys the PS3 at the moment.

Just my opinion I guess. :)

[TroyF]

I've been making this point for a while now...:)

Yup,k a lot of us have. It's amazing to me more people don't see that. Oh well.

[MJ4H]

Honestly, I can't believe you forgot Wii Sports. I can play the bowling and mini games all the time. It is terrific in single player. Paper Mario and Zelda are terrific games. While the Wii needs more titles, I think the titles it has destroys the PS3 at the moment.

Just my opinion I guess. :)

Surely the success of that one speaks for itself :)

I guess I did forget it, though. Not just your opinion, either.

[Eaglesfan27]

Sony is being sued by another company for patent violation. This time over the digital access protection that they use on the PS3 and a few other devices.


http://www.gamespot.com/news/6171912.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;1

[gstelmack]

"Several developers have mentioned how easy it is to create a game for the 360 and then move it to the PS3. But they have also said that it's very difficult to make a game on the PS3 and then move it to the 360 without noticable changes and a lot of redesign."

That just means the PS3's engine has a whole lot more functionality than the 360s.

No, it doesn't. The architectures are very different, and it just means that it's easier to move from the 360 architecture -> PS3 architecture, not the other way around.

The fact remains that the PS3 has its strengths and weaknesses, while the 360 has its strengths and weaknesses. I would not call either one more powerful than the other unless we are talking about a specific feature or area of the console.

[14ers]

Is there any site online I can buy JUST a Wii core system for the full retail price of $249? Not some "Bundle"


I have given up trying to buy a Wii locally, so now I am striking out online in my attempt to buy a Wii online, without having to spend a couple hundred dollars more to buy some kind of "Bundle"


Are Wiis available online?

[14ers]

Is there any site online I can buy JUST a Wii core system for the full retail price of $249? Not some "Bundle"


I have given up trying to buy a Wii locally, so now I am striking out online in my attempt to buy a Wii online, without having to spend a couple hundred dollars more to buy some kind of "Bundle"


Are Wiis available online?
BTW-- I am prepared to pay a shipping cost. I just do not want to be forced to buy a "Bundle"


Hell, I can't even buy a USED Wii on ebay for $249!

[MJ4H]

Looks like there aren't now. This is a good site to check:

http://wiitracker.com/

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like the European consumer board may force a recall of 360's that scratch disks........

European Commisioner: MS has a week to explain Xbox 360 scratching disc issue

European Commissioner for Consumers Meglena Kuneva wants to get to the bottom of the Xbox 360 scratching disc issue and she wants answers from Microsoft within one week. In a visit to The Netherlands yesterday, Kuneva confirmed that she had written to Microsoft requesting information on how they plan on resolving the issues there and "whether the same problem has occurred on other markets," according to a newsbrief on the ECC website.

The inquiry was prompted by a report from Dutch TV show Kassa that concluded that certain models of Xbox 360 were indeed the cause of the disc scratching.

In a (mostly English) radio interview, Kuneva said that "Within one week i expect to receive an answer ... and then we will draw the plan on how we could proceed further." She also said that although she does not have the power to order a recall, she'll be "more than happy to act if I have legal ground." (Listen to streaming .wma; interview starts around 2:53.)

Given the anecdotal evidence we have, the disc scratching problem has certainly come up in other markets. It'll be interesting to see what Microsoft reveals on the matter over the next week.

[Ryan S]

Saw my first Wii at a Walmart over the weekend and bought it. Later saw two in Target.

I was in a video game store yesterday and noticed a sign in the window saying "Nintendo Wii in stock". During my ten minutes inside the store they sold nine Nintendo Wii's. Incredible.

[oykib]

I was in a video game store yesterday and noticed a sign in the window saying "Nintendo Wii in stock". During my ten minutes inside the store they sold nine Nintendo Wii's. Incredible.

I finally got one last week. It's the same story here. They don't last an hour here.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I finally got one last week. It's the same story here. They don't last an hour here.

Hell, they can't even keep DS handhelds in stock in Japan. I still can't figure that one out. They obviously keep the supply lines pretty short for everything in Japan. It seems to drive the Japanese into a frenzy. They're video-game crazy.

[oykib]

Hell, they can't even keep DS handhelds in stock in Japan. I still can't figure that one out. They obviously keep the supply lines pretty short for everything in Japan. It seems to drive the Japanese into a frenzy. They're video-game crazy.

The DS numbers are very easy to understand. Just keep in mind the fact that Japanese people on average spend over two hours a day riding public transportation. That also explains the much better numbers they have here for various reading material: manga, newspapers, magazinez, and books.

The top manga here, particularly, sell incredibly.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The DS numbers are very easy to understand. Just keep in mind the fact that Japanese people on average spend over two hours a day riding public transportation. That also explains the much better numbers they have here for various reading material: manga, newspapers, magazinez, and books.

The top manga here, particularly, sell incredibly.

Oh, I certainly understand the demand and the reasons for it. I just have no clue why Nintendo hasn't increased the production capacity to meet that demand. It's like printing money over there in Japan in regards to the DS. They need to get more of those things on the shelves because there absolutely no lag in demand right now.

[spleen1015]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6171994.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;1

Thought I'd post this before Mizzou B-ball fan beat me to it.... :D

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6171994.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;1

Thought I'd post this before Mizzou B-ball fan beat me to it.... :D

Text? I have no idea what it is, but it's likely blocked for me, so I'm not going to beat you to anything.

[spleen1015]

:)

One million 360 games sold in 14 months in Australia/NZ
Xbox 360 beats PSP as fastest-seller of game titles in Australia and New Zealand.
By Randolph Ramsay, GameSpot AU
Posted Jun 4, 2007 9:33 pm CT

The Xbox 360 may have lost its title as fastest-selling game console in Australia to the Nintendo Wii, but it has claimed another title over its next-generation competitors. Latest figures from data trackers GfK Australia show that the 360 has sold more than one million games in Australia and New Zealand since its launch 14 months ago, the quickest any game device has reached that milestone.

GfK Australia account director Daniel Morse declined to provide Australia-only sales figures, but did confirm that Australian sales "make up the bulk" of the one million amount.

The previous title holder of quickest to one million game sales is Sony's PSP, which reached the mark in Australia and New Zealand in 16 months. The PlayStation 2 took 18 months (Australia-only figures), while the Nintendo DS took 22 months (Australia-New Zealand figures).

GfK Australia also listed the top selling 360 games down under so far--Gears of War, Saints Row and Call of Duty 2 took out the top three spots in that order.

And while GfK and Microsoft did not release the latest console sales figures for the 360 down under, Microsoft had previously announced in March 2007 that their latest console had sold 157,000 units so far.

GfK did announce, however, that the 360 has a software attach rate of just over five games per console owner. The 360 looks on track to beat its predecessor when it comes to software attach, with the original Xbox having a rate of eight since its launch in 2002. The PS2, by comparison, now has an attach rate of 10, having first launched in Australia in 2000. GfK's Morse declined to provide attach rates for the PS3 and Nintendo Wii.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

:)

One million 360 games sold in 14 months in Australia/NZ
Xbox 360 beats PSP as fastest-seller of game titles in Australia and New Zealand.
By Randolph Ramsay, GameSpot AU
Posted Jun 4, 2007 9:33 pm CT

Yeah, I don't look much outside the 3 major markets, so I likely wouldn't have seen that. India is another side market where the 360 has sold some units, but numbers in those markets are a drop in the hat when compared to the big markets. I do know that Microsoft would like to take places like India, China, and South Africa and turn them into markets for consoles. It's just going to take a lot of time to do that. Certainly, Microsoft doesn't mind burning some money early on in those markets to create brand loyalty. India, China and South Africa are wide open opportunities. It's probably a good gamble at a relatively low cost for Microsoft. Sony tends to stick to the three main markets with the intent to jump into major Asian markets like Korea and China long-term. Two totally different strategies from a worldwide perspective.