PING: Fast-sim, GM Types (RE: FOF2K7)

[Ben E Lou]

A number of comments in the poll about adding customization to FOF caught my eye, as well as a comment in a MP league that I read a few minutes ago. These comments have me strongly suspecting that a *KEY* new feature of FOF2K7 for the fast-sim, GM type player has been overlooked. The comment usually goes something like this:

"FOF2K7 added a bunch of game plan stuff that's too detailed for me. It didn't add much to the fast sim experience. I hate all the detail on the game plan screens."

What seems to have been *REALLY* overlooked in that sentiment is this: how dynamic the AI game planning is. If you want to do the GM thing, then you can set the game options to "Coach Resets Game Plan After Each Game", and have a COMPLETELY difference experience from FOF2K4, where you'd get an identical or near-identical game plan with every team every year. Now, if your starting QB goes down, it will run a lot more. If your RB goes out, it will throw more. If you have receivers who are good at big-play receiving, it will stretch the field more. If you have CBs who are good at bump coverage, it will use it more. If your opponent is set up to run the ball and isn't a threat passing, it will expect the run a lot more. If your opponent is a passing team, it will expect the pass a lot more. The variance is really a great achievement in this version.

Here's a quick example. I just loaded up a team that I drafted a while back to run a stretch-the-field offense: great QB (esp. at Med/Long/V. Long), great receivers (esp. at big-play receiving), so-so RB, solid offensive line. A few things Coach Rex says we ought to do with this team:


First And Ten: 42% Run, 19% Short, 39% Long
2nd And Ten: 30% Run, 23% Short, 47% Long
2nd And Five: 46% Run, 18% Short, 36% Long
Third And 17+: 6% Run, 10% Short, 84% Long
Long Pass Distance: 24.9-26.9-24.0-16.5-7.7


So, in other words, no matter what the situation, this team is always a threat to go deep.

Next, I loaded up my current SP team. I have a mediocre QB, a great RB and offensive line, and mediocre receivers. Rex's thoughts:


First And Ten: 56% Run, 22% Short, 22% Long
2nd And Ten: 44% Run, 28% Short, 28% Long
2nd And Five: 60% Run, 20% Short, 20% Long
Third And 17+: 28% Run, 12% Short, 60% Long
Long Pass Distance: 34.6-32.4-19.2-10.2-3.6


That's a *very* significant difference in game plans. (I particularly like seeing the differing thoughts on 3rd and very long. Team One is extremely likely to take a shot downfield at the first down, while Team Two is going to either run, or throw a pass of 12 yards or less 60% of the time.)

I also ran a full season with these teams with Coach Rex calling the shots. The difference is significant as well:

TEAM ONE
573 passes, 440 rushes (and they won 12 games, so they ran more at the end of games)
13.48 yards per catch (1st in the league)
194 short passes (33.9%), 211 medium passes (36.8%), 168 long passes (29.3%)

TEAM TWO
418 passes, 504 rushes (won 9 games)
8.65 yards per catch (Last in the league...but 67.8 completion percentage was 2nd in the league...obviously they threw more high-percentage passes)
213 short passes (51.0%), 142 medium passes (34.0%), 63 long passes (15.1%)

For a while there, there was even a bit of concern that it was *too* good--the idea being that if the human couldn't game plan any better than the AI, then what's the point of having human game planning even in the game? After a while, that sentiment was proven to be false. However, I do think it says a lot for AI game plans that it was *ever* even considered by FOF vets that doing the game plan yourself may have been pointless. The AI does that good of a job.

In short: if you don't want to game plan, and the screens seem daunting to you, you really should consider just turning it all over to good ol' Coach Rex.

[RedKingGold]

You forgot to mention that Rex also does take into account the team you are playing for defensive purposes. If a team obviously favors the run on certain situations, I've seen the AI adjust my defensive tendencies on gameplanning to account for this factor.

In FOF2K4, it took an extremely long time to game-plan because I had to make a near-organic gameplan for each week (usually 30-45 minutes)

In FOF2K7, I often hit recommend first, and then tweak the plan to my own preferences (usually 10-15 minutes)

Just for the time-savings alone (b/c I'm not much of a gameplanner) = Thumbs up!

[Sweed]

This feature alone, IMHO, made 2k7 worth $35. I'm not a quick sim guy as I watch all of my games. With 2k4 I HAD to gameplan to enjoy the game. With 2k7 I have no problem turning it over to the HC I pay to do the job. For important games I sometimes go in like RKG and make adjustments.

[DaddyTorgo]

This feature alone, IMHO, made 2k7 worth $35. I'm not a quick sim guy as I watch all of my games. With 2k4 I HAD to gameplan to enjoy the game. With 2k7 I have no problem turning it over to the HC I pay to do the job. For important games I sometimes go in like RKG and make adjustments.


that's always been the way i do it to. i figure if i'm paying the HC then I ought to get the benefits of his gameplanning abilities, for better or worse.

[Anthony]

i was unaware of how dependable the recommend route was in 2k7. seriously, this is the best piece of info i've heard about this game. if this is the case, i can totally roleplay as the GM, leave the playcalling up to my staff and if my team underperforms then heads roll. i don't consider myself a quicksimmer, i mean, i don't playcall every game or anything. but i always took things on a week to week basis, trying to make sure RB X was getting the amount of carries i wanted or WR X was getting enough targets. now, it appears the game will adequately handle the on-the-field aspect of the team so i can focus on what i like - the bigger picture, long term plans and talent evaluation/aquisition.

the commish in my league (sovereignstar) mentioned not to get scared at some of the screens if i didn't want to worry about it, but i was wary letting the AI gameplan for me in a league where we have some *very* savvy gameplanners. based off of this info it doesn't seem like i'll be at too much of a disadvantage, at least not so much that someone who gameplans themselves can automatically win the game. if the added benefit you get from gameplanning yourself is basically minimal, then i'm fine with leaving it up to the football gods to help level the playing field to compensate.

[Passacaglia]

Who wants to tell him?

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=54349&highlight=AI+dynamic

[Honolulu Blue]

A number of comments in the poll about adding customization to FOF caught my eye, as well as a comment in a MP league that I read a few minutes ago. These comments have me strongly suspecting that a *KEY* new feature of FOF2K7 for the fast-sim, GM type player has been overlooked. The comment usually goes something like this:

"FOF2K7 added a bunch of game plan stuff that's too detailed for me. It didn't add much to the fast sim experience. I hate all the detail on the game plan screens."

What seems to have been *REALLY* overlooked in that sentiment is this: how dynamic the AI game planning is.

(snip)

In short: if you don't want to game plan, and the screens seem daunting to you, you really should consider just turning it all over to good ol' Coach Rex.

Speaking only for myself, I did notice the change (as described by Jim, yourself, and others). It doesn't make a lot of difference, and I'll tell you why.

First, I stopped gameplanning after TCY's explosion of numbers and situations made it painful to do so. So I've been turning it over to Rex or whomever for a long time.

Second, more intelligent game planning by the AI in my favor is negated by more intelligent game planning against my team. The spread of stats may be different - and more realistic - but in terms of net wins and losses, I can't see it having much effect.

And third, in playing sports career text sims, I always concentrate on being a GM as much as possible. What does a GM do? He gathers the best resources he can subject to the contraints of his team and league so that the team can win the most games possible (or perhaps just the big game at the end of the season). In football that means:

1) Acquiring talent through the draft, trades, and free agency,
2) Managing the cap,
3) Setting optimal ticket prices, and
4) Getting the best possible stadium conditions.

Note that there is nothing in there about game planning, and that is the way I like it.

I'm glad to see that Jim finally feels he has gotten the AI game planning right. I know he's done a lot renovation to it over the years. But it wouldn't add much to my enjoyment of the game as opposed to the way I would play the previous version.

[DaddyTorgo]

the commish in my league (sovereignstar)


lol...is sui in the league too? wrongway? FN?

[Anthony]

lol...is sui in the league too? wrongway? FN?

suicane, mr. bigglesworth, cringer, to name a few off the top of my head. Imperial Football League. games are simmed once a week - moves at a snail's pace but it makes gameday all the more insane.

[Coder]

lol...is sui in the league too? wrongway? FN?

Sov and Sui run the league.. no Wrongway or Nobles (not even capsicums). I can hands down that it's an amazing league and I wouldn't change it for the world. I know some people think badly of both Sov and Sui over here, but they're both great guys in my book. The IFL is run very professionally and we have a great bunch of GMs as well. I really recommend you check out the website, beautifully set up by some of the GMs (individual player pages etc).

[Ben E Lou]

{Well-reasoned comments.}

I like to be the GM, but I can't STAND to just sit back and watch the AI not use my personnel properly, so the past version forced me to game plan in SP. Now, I know that if I want to go quickly through seasons, the AI will finally take advantage of my team's strengths.

And in MP, it's an even bigger deal. People like HA, who want to focus more on GM aspects in their MP leagues, had to deal with game planning details in order to keep up. That's not as true any more (especially with 6.0e).

[Anthony]

(snip)



Speaking only for myself, I did notice the change (as described by Jim, yourself, and others). It doesn't make a lot of difference, and I'll tell you why.

First, I stopped gameplanning after TCY's explosion of numbers and situations made it painful to do so. So I've been turning it over to Rex or whomever for a long time.

Second, more intelligent game planning by the AI in my favor is negated by more intelligent game planning against my team. The spread of stats may be different - and more realistic - but in terms of net wins and losses, I can't see it having much effect.

And third, in playing sports career text sims, I always concentrate on being a GM as much as possible. What does a GM do? He gathers the best resources he can subject to the contraints of his team and league so that the team can win the most games possible (or perhaps just the big game at the end of the season). In football that means:

1) Acquiring talent through the draft, trades, and free agency,
2) Managing the cap,
3) Setting optimal ticket prices, and
4) Getting the best possible stadium conditions.

Note that there is nothing in there about game planning, and that is the way I like it.

I'm glad to see that Jim finally feels he has gotten the AI game planning right. I know he's done a lot renovation to it over the years. But it wouldn't add much to my enjoyment of the game as opposed to the way I would play the previous version.

i don't agree with this. i think before if you let the AI handle your gameplan you were putting yourself at a disadvantage. a lot of times i'd hit recommend i'd go "huh?". now it seems if you still let the AI handle your gameplan it'll put up something that makes as much sense as what you would have done. all those screens in the game with setting for every game scenario is very intimidating, and if the end result is that i only give myself a 5% increase in being able to win the game i don't think it's entirely necessary to fret over it. i've never considered myself a master-gameplanner so this is great to hear that i can leave it up to the AI and it won't muck up things with gameplan decision that leave me scratching my head.

[DaddyTorgo]

Sov and Sui run the league.. no Wrongway or Nobles (not even capsicums). I can hands down that it's an amazing league and I wouldn't change it for the world. I know some people think badly of both Sov and Sui over here, but they're both great guys in my book. The IFL is run very professionally and we have a great bunch of GMs as well. I really recommend you check out the website, beautifully set up by some of the GMs (individual player pages etc).

i was just making a humerous statement, not trying to rip on the guys. FWIW I enjoyed both of their posts here (as on-the-edge as they might have been) and kinda...miss them.

[FrogMan]

You know, I remember SkyDog posting about this a while ago (the one linked above) and it sorta piqued my curiosity.

Thanks for posting about this again, especially posting it as a ping in the general discussion forum since I hardly ever visit the FOF forum. It's been a long time since I've played FOF (last time was with FOF2k4 I think) and I had gone away from it mostly because I couldn't really get myself to care about gameplanning but I liked building my team over years, without really being a true quicksimmer. I guess I got kinda frustrated that the "recommend" button was doing very little. Now if I could leave it to my coach and have fun signing players and such, yet still have the feeling that my team is playing to its strength, the one I have brought to it.

Now, about the GM side of things, how is the AI as far as trades and drafting go? And how about negotiating with players? I used to have to play with about a page long of house rules of stuff I shouldn't do, is it still the case or is the AI much improved in that aspect that I could go in and not be afraid of taking advantage of it?

FM

[Coder]

i was just making a humerous statement, not trying to rip on the guys. FWIW I enjoyed both of their posts here (as on-the-edge as they might have been) and kinda...miss them.

I didn't read anything else into it, I just saw an opportunity to mention that they're two great guys :)

[Honolulu Blue]

i think before if you let the AI handle your gameplan you were putting yourself at a disadvantage. a lot of times i'd hit recommend i'd go "huh?". now it seems if you still let the AI handle your gameplan it'll put up something that makes as much sense as what you would have done.

I actually agree with you on this point, but I'm going to flip the wording around. Before, the brain-dead AI that set your game plan when you hit "recommend" is the same brain-dead AI that sets the game plans for all the other teams. Therefore, an active game planner put himself at a substantial ADVANTAGE, at least against other computer-run teams.

all those screens in the game with setting for every game scenario is very intimidating,

Um, that's one word for it... :mad:

and if the end result is that i only give myself a 5% increase in being able to win the game i don't think it's entirely necessary to fret over it. i've never considered myself a master-gameplanner so this is great to hear that i can leave it up to the AI and it won't muck up things with gameplan decision that leave me scratching my head.

Like I said, I'm glad it's there, glad it's working well, and glad that many others feel it is important for their game playing styles.

[flere-imsaho]

The irony here is that one of the reasons I bowed out of the CFL (a great league, by the way) when it switched to FOF2K7 was that I felt I would not have the time to commit to properly run my team. Some of this was, for instance, time to submit exports and take part in the draft. But some of it was a belief that I just didn't have time to learn gameplanning for FOF2K7 as I had done (or tried to do) for FOF2K4.

Having said all that, I'd say it's a very welcome development, so kudos to Jim.

To SkyDog's original point, I'd say I agree. When I played FOF2K4 SP, I was probably a quick-simmer. I went a week at a time (mostly to make switches in the roster so the AI wouldn't do it for me), but I didn't watch the games.

It became clear to me that if I wanted to build a team around a particular idea, I'd have to gameplan for each week to that end. For SP, I found this tedious, especially as I didn't really understand gameplanning very well. For MP, I always tried my best, but didn't feel I understood it well either.

In the end, for SP, instead of bringing in personnel that fit a particular team I was trying to build (say a run-first team), I brought in personnel that fit the "default" FOF2K4 gameplan the best. Eventually this is effectively what I did with MP as well, though with enough tweaks to sufficiently take advantage of some opponents.

So, again, I think this change is great, and it's also good to see the "proof" SkyDog's posted above.

[Buccaneer]

As a fast-simmer, GM-type, I can appreciate SD's post, even if he has posted and debated things like that a few times since release. I also agree that there is a difference between SP and MP. While a third to a half (my WAG) of the owners in IHOF can get by with recommend, I perceive it will put you at a disadvantage against those that can master the way the game is designed to be played. With everything being equal, a detailed game planner can get an extra win or two than a recommender, imo.

But to answer the original post, there is one fallacy. FOF's strength is in the details, not in the GM parts. You play the game to its stength and depth because doing otherwise, you will feel that you are short-changing yourself. I have advocated for some time for a football game where its strength and depth is in GM functions while keeping the coaching functions more 'beneath the hood'. That puts the emphasis of the gameplay on player acquisition and roster management, with the confidence that the game will use them accordingly in a game.

Even though the draft, free agency and trades are the foundation for such functions (and FOF perform these well programmatically), they can go broader and deeper, as FM has shown and as in real-life. Imagine if it knows about a TCY universe during the draft hype and can simulate the obsession that we all here follow through the mock drafts as well as draft day analysis. That's just one of many examples of expanding the breadth and depth (and immersion) of the off-season and in-season GM gameplay.

I am still not convinced that football is conducive to a GM-centric gameplay at the expense of gameday. Perhaps it is wishful thinking. I am very happy that the hardcore simmers have a near-ideal football sim to play, and that makes it fun following along in a MP league. But those of us that care more what happens in April or June than on any given Sunday in the Fall, there's nothing out there. I wouldn't wish such desires upon FOF for it is what it is, nor would I wish for a massive game that tries to do everything for everyone (ala OOTP).

My 2-cents.

[BrianD]

Imagine if it knows about a TCY universe during the draft hype and can simulate the obsession that we all here follow through the mock drafts as well as draft day analysis.

I would love to see something like this in the game. I can never figure out who other teams are going to draft, so I never trade up or down in the draft. I can't figure out where I need to go/could go to get the guy I want.

[Anthony]

here's my quick evaluation after week 9 (i'm the Giants):

1. we seem to give up a ton of points, though we have some pretty good guys on defense. now as a GM i get to start doing what i love best - evaluating. is it individual players who are giving up big plays or is our DC not getting it done. if this were real life the hometown media would be calling for his head, we're in the bottom 5 in a lot of categories. somehow we're still winning.

2. the AI is doing a great job overall. we started out 0-3, with me using my own gameplan for the first 2 games. now we're 5-3. really seems like i'm not gonna have to worry about the gameplanning in this game, as daunting as the screens might be.

3. we're winning differently. won week it was a shootout, the next - vs the Cowboys - was an old fashioned NFC East dirty ground game. definitely seems the AI is doing a good job adjusting the gameplan to the opponent. i don't even think i need to worry about tweaking it at this point cuz i can't see how i would be doing any better.

4. the distribution of carries is very realistic. Barber is getting the bulk of the carries - as he should - but Jacobs is getting his share of goal line td's just as it is in real life. obviously the game doesn't know how it is in real life, but it's nice to see that it recognizes Jacobs as someone useful in goal line situations cuz he's getting a lot of 1 and 2 yard td's. Barber is getting about 3 or so catches per game, the so AI is recognizing his pass catching ratings.

5. noticing a large amount of fumbles recovered for TDs (fortunately my team is the won recovering the fumbles :D ). this is the 3rd straight game we've recovered one for a td. this most recent game was a 99 fumble recovery td. still, it is conceivable it could happen, perhaps the sample size is still on the small side so i'll see how it plays out the rest of the season.

i really have been put at ease that i need not worry about these gameplans. i'm sure i'll lose maybe 1 or 2 games by not doing it myself, but overall i'm not getting the sense that the game is doing stupid things and to restate myself i don't see how i could be doing any better of a job.

[Ben E Lou]

I would love to see something like this in the game. I can never figure out who other teams are going to draft, so I never trade up or down in the draft. I can't figure out where I need to go/could go to get the guy I want.

What Buc is asking for would be cool and all, but just a mock draft would be a big SP improvement AFAIC.

[Buccaneer]

What Buc is asking for would be cool and all, but just a mock draft would be a big SP improvement AFAIC.

I agree but it has to be more to it than a list, which FOF does well. It should tell me 'why' it makes the list like it does. In other words, why does it feel that Team X should be drafting a CB at 1.4 and why that particular one. To switch gears, let's take contract negotiations. Like most everything else in the game, it's simple matter of putting in the right numbers and seeing the results (or a, gasp, new list). Negotiations can give me some standards quips but the whole process is too gamey - much like trades as well (in SP of course).

That's what I meant about these are not where FOF's strengths lie. Gameplanning is a mechanical, objective process that can exposed more to the gamer. Having the program interject more personality and subjectivity while having to expose more how the AI makes decisions, can be riskier. There are very few games (and no text sims) that can expose the AI like this without showing its weakness. Civ4 showed that it can be done to some extent with exposing the SDK and AI logic algorithms but it's a first step. Play FOF the way it was designed and for the rest of us, let's hope there can be something in the future.

[Anthony]

i just made the Conference Semifinals and 7 of my players have been hit with influenza. funny game. the stats in this version are awesome. maybe it's me - i don't have a magnifier in my hand trying to look for problems. this game seems very solid and i have no qualms letting the AI handle my playcalling.

[Ben E Lou]

i just made the Conference Semifinals and 7 of my players have been hit with influenza. funny game. the stats in this version are awesome. maybe it's me - i don't have a magnifier in my hand trying to look for problems. this game seems very solid and i have no qualms letting the AI handle my playcalling.


Fanboy.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

It was actually a post by HA that led me to make this thread.



Does this mean I turned HA into a fanboy?????????


:eek:

[Pumpy Tudors]

Dola:

It was actually a post by HA that led me to make this thread.



Does this mean I turned HA into a fanboy?????????


:eek:
Actually, I think it makes you a HA fanboy.

Fanboy.

[Anthony]

Dola:

It was actually a post by HA that led me to make this thread.



Does this mean I turned HA into a fanboy?????????


:eek:


i posted some things i found peculiar in the 2K7 bugs/issues thread, but yes, i thoroughly enjoyed this first initial season and i'll go on record as saying the AI handled my playcalling way better than i could have.

funny thing, when i made the Wild Card round i decided to take over the reigns and throw caution to the wind and call my own plays. so, i'm up against the Saints, and they win the toss. i pick a defensive play and Reggie Bush gains 12 yards on the ground. i select the next play and Brees passes for a 1st down. ok, i say, i'll just let the coach call the defensive plays. i get the ball, give the ball to Tiki to run it up the gut in an I-formation, and he gets stopped behind the line of scrimmage. well, that was enough for me. this GM took off the headset and passed the playbook to my more knowledgeable HC and coordinators who had stayed quiet throughout my entire powertrip and i watched the rest of the game from the skybox (we won).

damn influenza mucked up my playoff mojo, we lost a 46-42 shootout to the eventual Super Bowl champs Carolina Panthers.

fun season. i'll let the AI handle the playcalling going forward. :D

[MizzouRah]

I would agree with what's being said, it's the most improved portion of the game this year, imho.

[Abe Sargent]

Posts like this make me wish we'd just smash the two forums back together.

[Logan]

I just wanted to take the time to say that Buc captured exactly where I'm coming from regarding FOF.

What's the name of the game? Front Office Football. Can we really say that the game at this point is focused on the front office? I think it's great that Jim has appeared to nail the gameplanning AI so that you can get exactly what you want from your players and run the system that you want to run. But that's a head coaching function (or at least it should be) and I think we all recognize that.

Maybe that's my issue...I have no clue how the head coach function works. Is he simply there to call plays? When I'm using this dynamic gameplanning "recommend" function, is this simply an AI issue (matching up your guys vs their's) or does it take into account the coach's style, experience, knowledge, etc. Actually, do coaches even have styles? We know their "talent" within position groups, motivation skills, play calling ability, etc...but are there Mike Martzes out there? Marvin Lewises? I guess that's what I'm looking for: hire a coach who fits the type of offense/defense I want to run (for which I go out and acquire the preferred types of players) and turn it over to him. Done. Follow-up and see if he's running the system properly...if not, decision time to either change the coach or go out and get new players.

I think that should be the limit as to how involved I get. But if you take out all the gameplanning and tweaking, I don't think there's enough in this game anymore to satisfy the guy who wants to just be the GM.

How to fix it: IMO, it starts with the draft. Not just because it's easily the most entertaining part of the personnel process, but because it's the area that, if expanded, could basically be going on throughout the entire universe of the game. Yes, seeing mock drafts (at least prior to the draft, but maybe even updating monthly during the season) would be a great first step. But it shouldn't stop there...

In this thread (and others have done so elsewhere), Buc brought up the "TCY universe that runs parallel to the game" idea. Obviously, this would be a huge addition to the game and would go very far in improving the GM aspects. I think back to how the freeware EHM handled the draft, and more specifically, scouting for the draft. For those who don't remember or never played, near the beginning of the season, the Central Scouting Bureau puts out the list of the top X number of prospects (I don't remember the #, but it was large...250 maybe?). And as the season goes on, I believe the rankings changed. Just this would be a great start to something in FOF. But where it really got cool is in scouting. You have a stable of scouts (6-8?) who, throughout the season, could be assigned to evaluate your shortlist of players (guys on your team or others who you want to know more about), NHL teams, or entire countries. Looking at the countries will get you reports on the draft-eligible players. Assign a guy to the US, Russia, Canada, Czech Republic, etc and a couple weeks later you start getting scouting reports back on these players.

Can't this work in FOF? Instead of assigning your scouts (yes, not just one guy...although the fine print within FOF seems to indicate that you technically have a staff) to countries, you assign them to different regions of the country (or even NCAA conferences). Then you start getting reports back about players with strengths and weaknesses. I recognize that I'm getting extremely greedy here...but can you imagine something where you didn't necessarily just get a "Ray Rice, RB, Rutgers" report (which would be great in and of itself, and no, I didn't choose that just for the alliteration), but instead your Big East scout gave you weekly reports that discussed who played well, who sucked, etc. "Rutgers defeated Boston College 24-17. Ray Rice ran for 135 yards and 2 TDs on 27 carries, and BC LB Brian Toal looked poor in run support." If you use these resources, you have a tremendous depth of knowledge when it comes to preparing for the draft. I WANT TO KNOW THESE PLAYERS!!! Say you're the GM of a team who is starting a massive rebuilding process. You have the 4th pick in the draft, and you have needs on the defensive side of the ball but you also need a QB of the future. There's a stud DE sitting there for you, as well as a QB who seems to have the physical talents but didn't perform very well in college. But because you're aware of what else is going on in college football, you know that Tennessee's sophomore QB is tearing up the SEC to the tune of 350 yards a game. Maybe now you take the DE instead of the questionable QB, hoping to nab the stud the year after.

That's all the time I have now. So if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go change my pants.

[Buccaneer]

Bringing together a couple of ideas in this thread and from other games, here's an idea.

One way of bringing more breadth and depth to the GM/Front Office side and away from the coaching side is to run a college universe in parallel. I brought up TCY before but that was not exactly what I meant. I am not talking about a playable college game, that would be another game nor am I thinking of the import function (even though that's a good feature). What I am thinking of is sort of like how the other leagues work in FM (from what I can tell).

With your much expanded coaching staff, which obviously including scouts of various nature, you would read about what's happening in the parallel college "league" as well as news of potential draftees (through in-game FOF Online?) through spring practices and the fall season. You would assign a scout to get more in-depth about a player and to interview him (all costing "budget points"). You would see performance numbers while you are running your pro team and checking week-by-week on various college games/players. You would also follow along the various Senior-type Bowl games (perhaps assigning one of your coaches to be on the staff?). Then you would hit the combine.

By then, and over the next 2 months, you would read about various analyses and mock drafts, as well as get the opinions from your coaching and scouting staff (not only including on-field performances but character stuff as well). Also during this phase, you get meet with the potential draftees' agent and maybe you can secure a contract with your #1 pick before the draft, as an example.

GM functions is a 12-month effort, with plenty of activities to do each turn. And with a college universe running in the background, it would make all of the incoming players into the pro universe more meaningful and immersive (without having to go through the tedium of actually managing a college universe). This idea, of course, can be expanded to NFL Europa or whatever the hell it is called nowadays. Maybe in addition, there will be some news about HS Prospects (at least a Top 100 list or something) that can give you an idea of who could be noteworthy in college.

Again, a HS or a College universe will not and should not be playable because not only are those different games, but the focus is on playing as a GM of a pro team, managing your resources and information that you have, as well as interacting with it.