Lakers a "Mess" Kobe wants a trade!

[DanGarion]

Yes! It's about time, the Lakers can get back to normal!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-lakersbryant&prov=ap&type=lgns

Bryant asks for trade from Lakers
By JOHN NADEL, AP Sports Writer
May 30, 2007

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Kobe Bryant asked to be traded from the Lakers on Wednesday, a day after calling the team's front office "a mess."

"I would like to be traded, yeah," Bryant told ESPN radio. "Tough as it is to come to that conclusion there's no other alternative, you know?"

Bryant, who helped the team win three consecutive NBA championships, has four years remaining on the seven-year, $136.4 million contract he signed July 15, 2004. That was a day after Shaquille O'Neal was traded to the Miami Heat.

Bryant became infuriated Tuesday when a Los Angeles Times columnist quoted what he called a Lakers insider as saying it was Bryant's insistence on getting away from O'Neal that prompted the trade to Miami.

[DaddyTorgo]

the C's will take him. put together a goddamm package Danny!!

[rkmsuf]

the C's will take him. put together a goddamm package Danny!!

DO IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

Perk...Ratliff's contract...wally scerbziak (damm spelling)...and the pick.

see how the team can roll with Jefferson/Kobe/Pierce

and obviously i have no idea of the $$ necessary. balance that however. bottom line is i think anyone except Jefferson + Pierce ought to be available to be used in the trade. I'd rather not trade the pick, but I suspect you'd have to in order to get Kobe.

[albionmoonlight]

Interesting. He has a lot of detractors, and he is getting a bit up in age. But he is still the best player in the league not named Tim Duncan.

Any middlin' team would be foolish to not try to come up with a package for him. He'll be crazy motivated to win with his new team.

[JPhillips]

Szerbiak, Allen, #5, Ainge, Rivers, Bird's old locker, Dunkin Donuts, Mennino, Aerosmith, the Hatch, and rights to Brady's sperm?

[miami_fan]

You know nothing is easy with Kobe

Bryant has a no trade clause which means he must agree to waive this for any trade to happen.

[bhlloy]

How about Roy & Randolph for Kobe and the Blazers try to win sooner rather than later with him and Oden?

[rkmsuf]

Kobe is at 19mil next season.

Theo, Gomes, Telfair and the pick just about works.

So does Wally, Green, West and the pick.

Basically it's doable salary wise. Talent wise I'm not sure.

I'd say Green, West, Theo, #5 this year and next year's first rounder might be in the ballpark.

[DaddyTorgo]

Szerbiak, Allen, #5, Ainge, Rivers, Bird's old locker, Dunkin Donuts, Mennino, Aerosmith, the Hatch, and rights to Brady's sperm?


in all seriousness, if all it took was the first 3 things you mentioned, i'd be perfectly happy with the deal

[DaddyTorgo]

Kobe is at 19mil next season.

Theo, Gomes, Telfair and the pick just about works.

So does Wally, Green, West and the pick.

Basically it's doable salary wise. Talent wise I'm not sure.

I'd say Green, West, Theo, #5 this year and next year's first rounder might be in the ballpark.

works for me

[stevew]

I dunno if he wants to go home again, but the Sixers have 3 first round picks that I'm sure they'd part with. Andre Miller would be the best PG Kobe's ever had. And assuming they don't include Iguadala, which, honestly in "superstar" type trades you don't give close to fair value, the Sixers will have a nice team next year. I think they significantly lack the salary to get a move done.

[rkmsuf]

works for me

I like this scenario as well:

Jason Kidd for Wally, Gerald, Dwest, 2008 unprotected #1

Jermaine O'Neal for Theo, Gomes, Bassy, #5


PG: Kidd, Rondo
SG: Tony Allen, Allan Ray
SF: Pierce,
PF: Al, Scal, Powe
C: Jermaine, Perk


Come on Danny, put a g-damn package together!

[Gary Gorski]

How about Roy & Randolph for Kobe and the Blazers try to win sooner rather than later with him and Oden?

This was the first thing I thought of as well - Kobe with Oden, Aldridge, Jack and maybe a FA signing like Rashard Lewis - that would be a formidable team there. I also think it would be fun if they traded him to Denver for AI. Could you imagine Kobe and Melo out there together. There might actually be a wrestling match for the ball every time it gets up the floor.

But I don't get why he wants to be traded. Because a Lakers insider said it was his fault they traded Shaq? After everything that people have said about him THAT is the straw that breaks the camel's back? Like suggesting he was the cause for them trading Shaq is so outrageous and untrue. To me this looks more like "hey maybe that Shaq guy did have something to do with us winning" and he realizes that Andrew Bynum isn't exactly the next Shaq and that one Kobe is not better than 5 opposing players. I say trade him to Atlanta for the #3, Joe Johnson and whatever else they can get and watch him revel in basketball mediocrity for another couple of years.

[stevew]

Kobe for Magette, Livingston, Cassell, the minnesota pick owed to the clippers, and the clippers #1's in this draft, and the one 2 years from now.

[rkmsuf]

If I were Kobe I'd want to be traded too. That team has very little talent or hope for talent outside of Bryant. Guy has to pump 50 in a night just for them to be competitive at all.

Come on Danny, put together a g-damn package!

[spleen1015]

No way he gets traded. By the end of the week or next week he'll be apologizing to the Lakers and everything will be back to normal.

He just doesn't like the fact that he's not getting any press in June.

[Ufer]

Anytime one team trades a package of non-superstar talent for a superstar, the team that gets the superstar wins. Plus Kobe sells tickets. Almost every single team in the league should be putting a package together. As a Laker fan, I'm even more pissed at Laker management. Even if it was true that Kobe forced out Shaq (questionable), never never never publicly embarrass your players, esp not your superstar. Trying to cover their own asses. Jerry Buss has to push out his son and get back involved.

One thing most people don't realize: Jerry Buss is one of the poorest owners in the league.

[stevew]

Why would he want to play for the Celtics though? There's no hope in that franchise either.

[rkmsuf]

Why would he want to play for the Celtics though? There's no hope in that franchise either.

Way more hope with Pierce/Kobe/Jefferson in the weak Eastern Conference. The Lakers have no hope with the lineup in the West.

Meh, he probably wouldn't want to go to Boston though. You just had to ruin this for me.

[heybrad]

As a Laker fan, I'm even more pissed at Laker management. Even if it was true that Kobe forced out Shaq (questionable)
According to Shaq yesterday he agrees that Kobe didn't force him out. The Buss's were getting rid of him either way. That's another part of what has him so pissed off. This "Laker Insider" has totally thrown him under this buss. The word is that the insider may very well be Jim Buss himself.

Kobe is right though that the front office is a complete mess. No talent has been brought in around him. There really is no tradeable commidities aside from Bynum and Jimmy Buss has a love affair with him so he's not going anywhere. Jim Buss is a freakin horse trainer. Why he seems to have more say in personnel decisions is beyond me.

If the Lakers trade Kobe they are going to suck for a long time.

[rkmsuf]

If the Lakers trade Kobe they are going to suck for a long time.

They suck now though. You could argue that keeping him prolongs mediocrity then triggers rebuilding. Why not just rebuild now?

It's the same question the Celtics face. Keeping Pierce is just about useless. It ensures 35 wins and prolonged mediocrity. I'm for trading Pierce and going super young.

- unless they can deal for kobe or oneil and kidd of course.

[JPhillips]

The only hope I have as a Celtics fan is that this is the team that traded Caron Butler for Kwame Brown.

[Ufer]

But I don't get why he wants to be traded. Because a Lakers insider said it was his fault they traded Shaq? After everything that people have said about him THAT is the straw that breaks the camel's back? Like suggesting he was the cause for them trading Shaq is so outrageous and untrue. To me this looks more like "hey maybe that Shaq guy did have something to do with us winning" and he realizes that Andrew Bynum isn't exactly the next Shaq and that one Kobe is not better than 5 opposing players. I say trade him to Atlanta for the #3, Joe Johnson and whatever else they can get and watch him revel in basketball mediocrity for another couple of years.

Hate on Kobe all you want but to answer your question, you have to put yourself in his place. He's extremely competitive and works his ass off. Contrary to what many say, he always wants to win and winning rings early in his career has set the bar higher for him. Laker management has done a crappy job, at best, putting a team around him. They refuse to trade their 20 year old project for a current star player -- Bynum is untouchable, are you kidding me? Not wanting to show up at training camp with another team he has to carry to 45 wins, he pushes them to make changes. How do they respond? They publicly criticize their HOF coach and then leak a story blaming Kobe for Shaq's departure. When I heard that story, I said "shit, Kobe's gonna be so pissed."

Have you noticed that Shaq publicly says angry things about Jerry Buss and Phil but avoids the Kobe issue. Starting with his last Laker training camp, Shaq was angry at Jerry Buss for not giving him a new mega-contract. Whatever Kobe did behind the scenes, Jerry Buss did not fight for Shaq or try to make it work out -- he did not want to pay $30m+ to an aging player and could not afford it.

[SFL Cat]

Send him to the Heat...Shaq and Kobe, together again :)

[heybrad]

They suck now though. You could argue that keeping him prolongs mediocrity then triggers rebuilding. Why not just rebuild now?

It's the same question the Celtics face. Keeping Pierce is just about useless. It ensures 35 wins and prolonged mediocrity. I'm for trading Pierce and going super young.
True, but they could improve fairly quickly if they were willing to deal Bynum. The stupidity of waiting on Bynum is that Kobe we'll be well into mid thirties by the time Bynum MIGHT be able to make an impact. If that's the Lakers plan, then yes, they might as well trade Kobe.

It just seems that teams trading superstars don't do very well and this will be 2nd superstar dumped in the last four years. Maybe I'm wrong. The only situation I can think of might be Gretzky getting traded and the Oilers still winning the cup, but that's another sport and the Oilers were loaded with talent.

Basketball is really the main sport that I get into (watching, not playing). I'm pushing 40 in a couple of years. It's not too much of a stretch to say that I'll never see another Laker title in my lifetime. They need to take that into consideration and do something pronto! ;)

[Jas_lov]

Why would he want to play for the Celtics though? There's no hope in that franchise either.

I think he would go there if he thought they had a realistic shot to win a title. Lebron James might get through the Eastern Conference with a mediocre supporting cast so why couldn't Kobe do the same? The elite in the East like the Pistons, Cavs, Heat, and Bulls are much worse than the Spurs, Suns, Mavericks, and Jazz out west. I just don't think the Lakers would be willing to part with one of the best players unless they get top of the line talent in return, and who can give that up in the East because the Lakers certainly won't trade him to a western conference team. Chicago is a team that has the young talent to trade, but I think they'd be fools to break it up now. Boston would have to give up their #5, at least 2 young players, and a veteran to balance out the contracts, but would that really be enough for the Lakers to trade away 2 sure fire hall of famers in a span of 5 years? And Kobe is still in his prime while Shaq was not.

[rkmsuf]

the Bulls don't have enough salary to trade unless they either

trade Hinrich and Gordon

or

trade everyone else but Hinrich and Wallace.

seems like it would be tough for them to get him.

[Anthony]

he is NOT going to the Celtics. he wants out of LA cuz they aren't elite. why would he trade a upper tier team like LA for a team struggling to make the playoffs in the East? he would be going to the Pistons or Bulls if he comes to the East, which is very unlikely.

he'll probably wind up in Dallas or Phoenix, those 2 teams have the right mix of solid role players that could be packaged together to make it worthwhile for the Lakers. if i were the Lakers i wouldn't move him - you will never get equal value for someone like him and he sells too many tickets. just let him play out his contract and milk him for all he's worth. the only way to stick it to these players is to not cave into their demands.

[rkmsuf]

looks almost impossible for detroit to even come close to getting kobe unless they ship hamilton and prince out west.

don't see that one.

bulls - already commented on them

dallas - if they want to do dirk straight up maybe.

suns - yeah I'm sure la is real interested in sending him there.

it's probably 90% he stays in la and scores tons of points over the rest of his deal.

[albionmoonlight]

A starting with Kobe, Paul Pierce, and 3 other breathing human beings would be a lock for at least the #3 seed in the East for the next 3-5 years.

If the Celts could actually find a way to deal for Kobe and put some talent around him and Pierce--that team could easily make the finals.

Pierce is the rare superstar who won't mind letting someone else be the alpha.

[DaddyTorgo]

one of green or allen, gomes, scerzbiak, #5 for Kobe

[DaddyTorgo]

A starting with Kobe, Paul Pierce, and 3 other breathing human beings would be a lock for at least the #3 seed in the East for the next 3-5 years.

If the Celts could actually find a way to deal for Kobe and put some talent around him and Pierce--that team could easily make the finals.


QFT. get it done Danny!

[heybrad]

if i were the Lakers i wouldn't move him - you will never get equal value for someone like him and he sells too many tickets. just let him play out his contract and milk him for all he's worth. the only way to stick it to these players is to not cave into their demands.
That will show him. He has an opt out in 2 years, so they Lakers will be fighting for the 8 seed for 2 years and then Kobe is gone for nothing.

[heybrad]

one of green or allen, gomes, scerzbiak, #5 for Kobe
OH DEAR GOD NO!

[Jas_lov]

Bulls trade Wallace, Gordon, and Deng for Kobe. Likely wouldn't happen as Kobe would end up in the same situation with no players around him and the Bulls won't break up their team unless Paxson is crazy.

[heybrad]

one of green or allen, gomes, scerzbiak, #5 for Kobe
We always had a saying among my friends when hearing about trades or trading in fantasy sports where we'd eat glass before we'd make that trade. It later narrowed down to referring to them as glass eating trades.

That, my friend, is a glass eating trade.

[stevew]

Actually, the bulls could probably sign PJ Brown to a big three year deal(one of it guaranteed) since he made about 8-10 million last year, and trade him along with 3m, Gordon and Tyrus Thomas to the Lakers for Kobe. That'd still leave the Bulls with some good pieces, they'd be a bit short at the PF spot, but could likely make a separate trade for one, or just move Nocioni there full time.

Offhand

PG-Heinrich
SG-Kobe
SF-Deng
PF-Nocioni
C-Wallace

Bench
Sefalosha?
Scrubs
#9 pick.

[DaddyTorgo]

We always had a saying among my friends when hearing about trades or trading in fantasy sports where we'd eat glass before we'd make that trade. It later narrowed down to referring to them as glass eating trades.

That, my friend, is a glass eating trade.

you saying from the laker's side? or the c's side.

it does look a little lopsided...but salary-wise to make things work i was just messing with the espn-trader...scerbziak+ratliff add up to $22 mil, and without including both of them, the C's options for who to include to get from 11 to 17 mil are pretty limited. so it's one or the other of them unless LA is going to throw in radmanovic to even it out.

[heybrad]

you saying from the laker's side? or the c's side.

it does look a little lopsided...but salary-wise to make things work i was just messing with the espn-trader...scerbziak+ratliff add up to $22 mil, and without including both of them, the C's options for who to include to get from 11 to 17 mil are pretty limited. so it's one or the other of them unless LA is going to throw in radmanovic to even it out.

Taking salary cap issues out of the equation... when you are suggesting crap in bulk, it's still crap.

[rkmsuf]

Actually, the bulls could probably sign PJ Brown to a big three year deal(one of it guaranteed) since he made about 8-10 million last year, and trade him along with 3m, Gordon and Tyrus Thomas to the Lakers for Kobe. That'd still leave the Bulls with some good pieces, they'd be a bit short at the PF spot, but could likely make a separate trade for one, or just move Nocioni there full time.

Offhand

PG-Heinrich
SG-Kobe
SF-Deng
PF-Nocioni
C-Wallace

Bench
Sefalosha?
Scrubs
#9 pick.


that's a great deal for the Bulls. I guess from the Lakers side it depends on your opinion of Thomas. Gordon is serviceable but not all that good.

I guess Gordon would be easy to move if you are la.

[rkmsuf]

they aren't taking Wally so get that right out of your head

[DaddyTorgo]

they aren't taking Wally so get that right out of your head

LOL

hey like i said, i was looking at it purely from a salary-standpoint. i freely admit i didn't watch a second of C's games last year...I knew Wally was injured a bunch of course, but I dunno how poorly he played all year.

[stevew]

that's a great deal for the Bulls. I guess from the Lakers side it depends on your opinion of Thomas. Gordon is serviceable but not all that good.

I guess Gordon would be easy to move if you are la.

Gordon averaged 21ppg last year. That's a notch about "serviceable." If the lakers wanted Deng instead, then you do that trade also. I think Thomas will be pretty good so the Lakers would be getting about as good of value as you can expect.

[DaddyTorgo]

Taking salary cap issues out of the equation... when you are suggesting crap in bulk, it's still crap.

LOL

[Atocep]

PJ Brown has been talking about retirement and if he had his choice between retirement and rebuilding in LA, I think its pretty obvious which he'd choose.

[rkmsuf]

LOL

hey like i said, i was looking at it purely from a salary-standpoint. i freely admit i didn't watch a second of C's games last year...I knew Wally was injured a bunch of course, but I dunno how poorly he played all year.



Wally might be the worst player in the history of the league to make 11 million at year. And he has two more years left.

Like ridiculously bad out there.

[DaddyTorgo]

Wally might be the worst player in the history of the league to make 11 million at year. And he has two more years left.

Like ridiculously bad out there.


lol. another brilliant ainge-move hmm?

[Atocep]

Gordon averaged 21ppg last year. That's a notch about "serviceable." If the lakers wanted Deng instead, then you do that trade also. I think Thomas will be pretty good so the Lakers would be getting about as good of value as you can expect.

Gordon doesn't play D, can't play the point, and is small as a NBA 2. He's perfect in the 6th man role, but you're pushing it if you ask for more.

The Bulls aren't going to move Deng. Won't happen. Not even to bring Kobe in. Remove Deng and I don't think they have the pieces to get Kobe, so I don't see a trade to Chicago happening.

[stevew]

PJ Brown has been talking about retirement and if he had his choice between retirement and rebuilding in LA, I think its pretty obvious which he'd choose.

Yeah, but we're talking, "hey, you, wanna make 6-8m, for sitting on the bench one more year." I don't care if he wipes his ass with 100 dollar bills, that's still a good chunk o change.

[bhlloy]

Chicago looks like the best option mentioned here so far. I think any deal will have to include a scoring guard and a potential superstar, which was why I mentioned the Blazers earlier. Gordon and Thomas fits that description. Throw in a 2008 first round pick and I think you have a very good deal there for both teams.

I don't see any way Kobe wants to go to the Celtics or the Celtics have the pieces to get the deal done. Anyone suggesting junk and the #5 pick is out of their mind. I don't watch a lot of Celtics games, but can he and Pierce really play nice together anyway?

Whoever mentioned that Kobe will be back with the Lakers next year has the right idea I think. He's not going to anybody other than a contender, and I'm not sure any of the contenders (unless you include Chicago in that definition) really want him or can fit him under the cap.

[Atocep]

In the Eastern Conference Kobe makes any team he's on a contender.

[stevew]

The Bulls aren't going to move Deng. Won't happen. Not even to bring Kobe in. Remove Deng and I don't think they have the pieces to get Kobe, so I don't see a trade to Chicago happening.

I think Luol Deng is a great player, and he will continue to get better. But the Bulls aren't that far away right now....they add Kobe to the mix, maybe they can win a couple in the next 2-3 years? Kobe is the best available player in the league right now, you gotta pull out all the stops for him IMO.

[rkmsuf]

If the Bulls decide to include Deng then Kobe is a Bull.

Otherwise the Celtic deal isn't far fetched at all. Green, West, Theo(expiring 11mil), #5 and throw in an unprotected #1 next year.

If the Lakers are true to wanting to cut salary and rebuild that's a good start.

[Anthony]

In the Eastern Conference Kobe makes any team he's on a contender.

he's already on a contender. that's not the problem. he doesn't want to just reach the playoffs, he wants an elite team that has a chance to win it all every year. i only know of 4 teams that fit that description and 3 of them are in the West.

[DeToxRox]

If I am Detroit

I offer Chauncey Billups + Carlos Delfino + Both firsts this year for Kobe.

Yes, gives us no real guard, but you can parlay Rip into something.

This team has to be blown up and I'd try building with Kobe and Tayshaun and Amir Johnson.

[Atocep]

I think Luol Deng is a great player, and he will continue to get better. But the Bulls aren't that far away right now....they add Kobe to the mix, maybe they can win a couple in the next 2-3 years? Kobe is the best available player in the league right now, you gotta pull out all the stops for him IMO.

I certainly think the Bulls should consider it, but I don't see it happening. Paxson and Skiles are huge Deng fans and after averaging around 22ppg and 9rpg in the playoffs, I don't think they'd trade him for anyone.

One dangerous thought for teams that are considering a trade for Kobe is he can opt out of his contract in 2 years. So you had better be damn certain you're going to win and can keep Kobe happy.


EDIT: to actually add the 2....

[Anthony]

This team has to be blown up and I'd try building with Kobe and Tayshaun and Amir Johnson.

the best team in the East needs to be blown up? the only team in the East with the ability to contend every year for a championship needs to be blown up - that's your stance? does anyone in this thread actuall follow basketball or are we just trying to make the most outrageous claims?

Kobe going to the Bobcats is a likely scenario - he'd enjoy working for MJ who would be able to command respect. plus Kobe would instantly make them a contender already having a young core that could contend for years while being far under the salary cap.

see, i can do it too.

[Logan]

Wally might be the worst player in the history of the league to make 11 million at year. And he has two more years left.

Like ridiculously bad out there.

Did you forget to look at the Knicks' roster?

[Atocep]

he's already on a contender. that's not the problem. he doesn't want to just reach the playoffs, he wants an elite team that has a chance to win it all every year. i only know of 4 teams that fit that description and 3 of them are in the West.

He makes just about any team in the East a team that can get to the finals. In the West his options are much more limited and it isn't going to happen with the Lakers.

[rkmsuf]

Did you forget to look at the Knicks' roster?

that's supposed to make celtic nation feel better?

[DeToxRox]

the best team in the East needs to be blown up? the only team in the East with the ability to contend every year for a championship needs to be blown up - that's your stance? does anyone in this thread actuall follow basketball or are we just trying to make the most outrageous claims?

Kobe going to the Bobcats is a likely scenario - he'd enjoy working for MJ who would be able to command respect. plus Kobe would instantly make them a contender already having a young core that could contend for years while being far under the salary cap.

see, i can do it too.

I am from Detroit AND a Pistons fan.

Chauncey is 50/50 he'll even be back in Detroit next year. He is a FA at the end of the season and will demand the max. The team has pretty much maxed out where they are now. I do not expect them to beat the Spurs in the finals, making it another runner up. That may be good and all but once again, it's not what the city of Detroit expects.

So do a sign + trade with Chauncey and bring in the arguably the best player in the NBA. If a guy like Billups is just chasing the money, let him go, give me the guy chasing the ring.

And I like Chauncey, but I think his time has come to an end here, and we're looking at a Ben Wallace situation 2.0.

[Logan]

the best team in the East needs to be blown up? the only team in the East with the ability to contend every year for a championship needs to be blown up - that's your stance? does anyone in this thread actuall follow basketball or are we just trying to make the most outrageous claims?

Settle down, Huckleberry :).

I think Detroit would be the worst fit possible. Not only because they can already contend every year, but that system is built on the complete opposite of one guy demanding 40 shots a game.

[DeToxRox]

Dola

If anyone has watched the Detroit/Cavs series they'd know how awful Detroit has looked. If Marshall and Hughes didn't miss two easy shots with at the buzzer this series is over and the Cavs sweep their way into the finals.

Detroit needs a change, and to get a guy like Kobe would be the best possible thing to do.

[rkmsuf]

Detroit is not a very good team. The West and East playoffs are vastly different levels of play.

[Anthony]

He makes just about any team in the East a team that can get to the finals. In the West his options are much more limited and it isn't going to happen with the Lakers.

again, he isn't just trying to get to the playoffs. any team in the East short of the Pistons are just playing for the right to lose to a West team. he can get to the playoffs with the Lakers - they aren't leet enough for him. he wants to be on a team that's on the top. he isn't trying to have to score 50 a nite for a another team to give them a chance to win. you put him on the Celtics and he's still gonna have to score 50 for them to win. Celtics wouldn't even hack it against the Lakers. he's not looking to make a lateral move.

[DeToxRox]

Settle down, Huckleberry :).

I think Detroit would be the worst fit possible. Not only because they can already contend every year, but that system is built on the complete opposite of one guy demanding 40 shots a game.

Contending and winning are two different things. Detroit is slowly recgonizing this is a Superstar run league, all you have to do is listen to Dumars talk. The way they play isn't going to continue to cut it as the league evolves.

[DeToxRox]

Detroit is not a very good team. The West and East playoffs are vastly different levels of play.

Detroit is probably just behind Utah in the West, so the top team in the East is probably 5th in the West.

[Atocep]

again, he isn't just trying to get to the playoffs. any team in the East short of the Pistons are just playing for the right to lose to a West team. he can get to the playoffs with the Lakers - they aren't leet enough for him. he wants to be on a team that's on the top. he isn't trying to have to score 50 a nite for a another team to give them a chance to win. you put him on the Celtics and he's still gonna have to score 50 for them to win. Celtics wouldn't even hack it against the Lakers. he's not looking to make a lateral move.


Anything can happen in a 7 game series, especially when you have a player like Kobe. A few years ago everyone thought the same thing and Pistons rolled over the Lakers.

I'd much rather be in a situation where I have a clear path to the finals and then take my chances with a Western Conference team than fight with Dallas, Phoenix, San Antonio, Houston, Golden State, Utah, Denver, and probably Portland now.

Detroit and Chicago are his best options, but I'd rather go to any team in the East rather than stay in the West right now.

[MrBug708]

Interesting thread. He's been all over the local radio doing interviews and he's just pissed at ownership for blaming him for all off their woes and for making him the scapegoat for Shaq leaving. He only trusts Phil Jackson and Jerry West to do anything and isn't sure this ownership wants to win right now. He also said that if he is traded, he understands the team won't have that much left, but if he trusts the front office staff that they are going to win soon, he's fine with that.

Needless to say, if Kobe were to be traded to the Celtics, they'd have to include Pierce in anything they do. It's not going to be a .60 on the dollar trade like with Shaq.

[jbergey22]

Kobe is at 19mil next season.

Theo, Gomes, Telfair and the pick just about works.

So does Wally, Green, West and the pick.

Basically it's doable salary wise. Talent wise I'm not sure.

I'd say Green, West, Theo, #5 this year and next year's first rounder might be in the ballpark.

I am pretty sure you cant trade back to back first round picks.

[Deattribution]

There is no circumstance that the Lakers trade the biggest name, and atleast a top 3 player in the league for some of the garbage mentioned in this thread. He's not AI, or Shaq (who had lost a big step) he's at the top of his game and he can bring millions in terms of fans, exposure and winning games to any team that gets him.

I don't think he makes just any an instant contender, but nobody can deny it's a boost for any team that can get him and a major loss for LA no matter who they pick up.

[stevew]

It'll be like .60 cents on the dollar....he has to agree to a trade before it can happen, and I doubt he's going to want to go to a team that's trading all of its good players for him.

[GoDukes]

Way more hope with Pierce/Kobe/Jefferson in the weak Eastern Conference. The Lakers have no hope with the lineup in the West.

Meh, he probably wouldn't want to go to Boston though. You just had to ruin this for me.

Do you really think the Celts could get Kobe without giving up Pierce?

[Deattribution]

It'll be like .60 cents on the dollar....he has to agree to a trade before it can happen, and I doubt he's going to want to go to a team that's trading all of its good players for him.

But the Lakers don't HAVE to trade him, he is stuck there atleast two more years and he's not going to sit out.

They will get some sort of superstar in return or they'll just keep him.

[MrBug708]

It'll be like .60 cents on the dollar....he has to agree to a trade before it can happen, and I doubt he's going to want to go to a team that's trading all of its good players for him.

As I stated earlier, Kobe was addressing it on two different stations and he knew that any team he could end up on could be short on talent, but as long as the front office staff was motivated to win and he trusted them, it wasn't that big of a deal. He knows his talents and knew he could take them far. He just wants to be able to trust his front office staff to not lie to him.

Personally, I'd trade him to Portland for Roy and Randolph.

[John Galt]

I don't understand the Pistons fans posting in all of this. I don't think the Kobe trades would 1) be accepted by the Lakers, 2) would benefit the Pistons, or 3) make Kobe want to go to Detroit.

From the Lakers perspective, if they are going to move Kobe, it will be to get younger, not older. Chauncey doesn't make sense for that team. And the two 1's and Delfino aren't going to be enough. Besides, sign-and-trades don't fetch the same value as when a player is already under contract.

From the Pistons perspective, you are left with:

PG ?
SG Kobe
SF Prince
PF Rasheed (turning 33)
C Webber (who won't recapture the limited magic he had this year)

Your leading scorer Hamilton gets moved the bench or you have to deal him. And I wouldn't be optimistic that he would automatically get you a star PG. You have dealt your second leading scorer, leaving Prince at 14.3 PPG as the leading offensive force next to Kobe. The Pistons would just become Lakers East. Is that really going to attract Kobe?

I see the only real contenders for a trade as Phoenix (which the Lakers will never approve and Phoenix is luxury tax shy), Dallas (with Howard and Harris as key components), Chicago (assuming they can make the salaries work), maybe Utah (only if the Lakers believe AK-47 will return to form), or maybe Houston (a McGrady swap with spare parts). Why would Kobe go anywhere else?

[jbergey22]

Hey I am a Twolves fan. Maybe McHale can come up with a load of crap for Kobe as some Boston posters have suggested.

I am thinking
Troy Hudson
Mark Blount
Marko Jaric
This years 1st round pick
the first round pick 3 years from now

For Kobe Bryant

Salaries should be in line right in line!

If the Lakers balk, we can always throw in McCants.

Seems like a great trade for both sides:rolleyes:

[Young Drachma]

Sign and trade with New Jersey for Vince Carter and a spare part would make the deal work.

[Young Drachma]

Nets get Kobe Bryant from LA and Jamal Crawford from NY Knicks

Lakers get Jason Collins, Josh Boone and Bostjan Nachbar from New Jersey and Steve Francis from New York

New York gets Vlad Radmanovic from Los Angeles, Richard Jefferson and Marcus Williams from NJ.

After that, they could still sign and trade Carter for more pieces to the puzzle.
Not serious, but hey..

[Logan]

The Knicks would be getting way too much back in that package.

[Young Drachma]

The Knicks would be getting way too much back in that package.

I only did it that way because the ESPN trade thingy wouldn't let me deal Carter.

[Fouts]

I'd be shocked if Kobe goes anywhere. Kupchak needs to get off his ass and make some magic happen with the roster.

[Groundhog]

The only trade in this thread that I could kind of see happening is maybe Randolph+Roy for Kobe, and even that might be a push.

I'm think he doesn't end up going anywhere, and this is his way of forcing the frontoffice's hand to make some improvements.

This is more likely a good-bye to Lamar Odom than it is to Kobe, but I just don't see how trading any one else on this roster is going to improve things to the point where they are challenging for a championship. Maybe if Kobe took an 18 million dollar paycut...

[st.cronin]

Haven't read all the crazy scenarios but I hope the Celtics grab him. Pierce plus the #5? That'd be ok with me.

[miami_fan]

Kobe is not going anywhere. This is pretty simple really. The Lakers have not gotten any better since Shaq left. There does not seem to be a plan for them to get better this offseason. If they get better this offseason, Kobe is happy.

[law90026]

The reason why there is some "hate" involved is because Kobe isn't entirely blameless in all this. Read the Phil Jackson book of the season they lost to Detroit and (if you believe that) you see that Kobe has some major issues. He was clearly (in my mind) playing the Lakers management to get Shaq out. He may not have demanded it but his actions, whether deliberate or not, put Lakers management in that position. Same with Phil Jackson, it eventually became one or the other.

How does this trade demand help? It doesn't. Lakers now can't get maximum value for him at all. Other teams know for a fact he wants out and they're not going to offer what Kobe is really worth. By declaring that he wants to win, the message sent must be that Kobe wants to go to a team ready to win, not a team that is rebuilding. This immediately reduces the options available to the Lakers.

If Kobe were serious about this, maybe he should have considered telling the Lakers privately (perhaps this was done and the Lakers didn't respond). But this mess can't end well I think.

[miami_fan]

I am not saying that Kobe is blameless for the split of that team but the time for blaming Kobe has long past. If this were 2004-2005, then sure blame Kobe all you want. You can blame Shaq, you can blame Phil, you can blame the Lakers organization. But it is not 2004-2005 anymore. There is no reason for any one in the Lakers organization to say anything about Shaq much less say anything about Kobe being the reason Shaq is not in L.A. It serves no good purpose for the Lakers organization. The Lakers organization has not done a good job in upgrading the roster from the day after Shaq was traded. That is where their focus should be, not playing “unnamed source” for the L.A. Times.

[Karlifornia]

Kobe Bryant:

I did have sexual relations with that woman...
........Err....Wait..I mean, I do not want to be traded.

[MrBug708]

The reason why there is some "hate" involved is because Kobe isn't entirely blameless in all this. Read the Phil Jackson book of the season they lost to Detroit and (if you believe that) you see that Kobe has some major issues. He was clearly (in my mind) playing the Lakers management to get Shaq out. He may not have demanded it but his actions, whether deliberate or not, put Lakers management in that position. Same with Phil Jackson, it eventually became one or the other.

How does this trade demand help? It doesn't. Lakers now can't get maximum value for him at all. Other teams know for a fact he wants out and they're not going to offer what Kobe is really worth. By declaring that he wants to win, the message sent must be that Kobe wants to go to a team ready to win, not a team that is rebuilding. This immediately reduces the options available to the Lakers.

If Kobe were serious about this, maybe he should have considered telling the Lakers privately (perhaps this was done and the Lakers didn't respond). But this mess can't end well I think.

While the book does put some blame on Kobe, he must have fixed everything otherwise why does he trust Phil Jackson so much?

[GoDukes]

The only trade in this thread that I could kind of see happening is maybe Randolph+Roy for Kobe, and even that might be a push.

Right. And the fact that they're both in the same conference might be enough to make it not even considerable. It prob. wouldn't even do much for both teams.

This is more likely a good-bye to Lamar Odom than it is to Kobe, but I just don't see how trading any one else on this roster is going to improve things to the point where they are challenging for a championship. Maybe if Kobe took an 18 million dollar paycut...


Lakers should've cut VladRad when they had the chance.

[GoDukes]

Haven't read all the crazy scenarios but I hope the Celtics grab him. Pierce plus the #5? That'd be ok with me.


Sounds like equal value, and I'm sure the Lakers would trade him to the Celtics.

[miami_fan]

I am not understanding why the Lakers should trade him. Is he going to hold out? No. Is he going dog it until he gets traded? No. Is he a cancer on his team? Not that I am aware of. So why trade him now? They are not going to get fair value for him. Do you really want to trade him to a team in the West? Does the East give you enough to justify the trade and give Kobe that will contend for a title? I don't think so. Their best bet as an organization is to do whatever it takes to build a team that will compete for at least a Western Conference title in the next two years and hope that Kobe sees enough progress to resign with the team. The problem is I am not sure the Laker front office as currently constructed can do what it takes to build a contender.

[DaddyTorgo]

the earlier they trade him the more value they get for him

[Izulde]

I'd love to see him on the Celtics.

[bhlloy]

Kobe is now staying after a talk with Phil. Nobody should be surprised at this development.

The interesting question now becomes - has he succeeded into scaring the front office into some moves to make them competitive next year?

[miami_fan]

Kobe is now staying after a talk with Phil. Nobody should be surprised at this development.

The interesting question now becomes - has he succeeded into scaring the front office into some moves to make them competitive next year?

Have they recalled Mitch Kupchak from Orlando as yet?

[MrBug708]

Kobe can opt out in two years though...

[KeyserSoze]

For me Kobe is just another overrated shooting guards of the league. Good enough to put a team in the play offs but not good enough of winning all.

Of course he is a huge talent, but he is a "me-first" talent. And me-first talent are not good enough to win all. Of course he had 3 ring, but with the most dominating player of his generation. After that? So-so years, not in statistics, but in results.

If Kobe want to be in a winner team, he has to leave the "whinner" team. Play hard, make your teammates better, do what you have to do to win games. And eating less part of the salary cap will help too..

US media loves this kind of "superstars" that have all the potential and all the glamour, but when the things go serious are crushed by the good teamworking teams.

[law90026]

I am not saying that Kobe is blameless for the split of that team but the time for blaming Kobe has long past. If this were 2004-2005, then sure blame Kobe all you want. You can blame Shaq, you can blame Phil, you can blame the Lakers organization. But it is not 2004-2005 anymore. There is no reason for any one in the Lakers organization to say anything about Shaq much less say anything about Kobe being the reason Shaq is not in L.A. It serves no good purpose for the Lakers organization. The Lakers organization has not done a good job in upgrading the roster from the day after Shaq was traded. That is where their focus should be, not playing “unnamed source” for the L.A. Times.

I dunno. I think there is no issue with Kobe wanting to win. But the blame arises because of the manner in which he is trying to play everyone (media included). If you accept that he had a part to play in breaking up a very successful dynasty because he wanted to be the man, then he kinda has to bear the repercussions for at least some of that.

Has the front office helped? Probably not. Having said that, I'm not sure what people expected Kupchak to do. The team has been flawed for a long time now and I can't blame them for not getting great value for Shaq at the time (because everyone knew he had to go and no one was going to offer his true worth). Were there bad trades? The Kwame Brown one stands out but then again, the NBA has been enamoured with the "potential" of Kwame Brown for a long time now.

How does this outburst actually help Kobe? It doesn't. The front office has no or little room to move. That's a fact. You can yell and scream all you want but that doesn't change the fact that the Lakers simply do not have many tradeable assets. Odom earns too much and isn't a star player (he's a good 2nd/3rd option). Bynum is probably their most tradeable asset but again, after this outburst, who is going to pay full value for Andrew Bynum since other GMs know that a trade is meant to appease Kobe?

None of this has anything to do with Kobe Bryant the player (super star, one of the best, but also a complete ass that is probably a pain to play with). This has to do with the way Kobe treats the Lakers.

[stevew]

I think the Lakers could possibly get someone like Randolph for Brown and another expiring an a first rounder maybe. That'd be a pretty good addition to their team, Kobe would have another scorer to play off of. Hell, while you are at it, trade Odom and change for Bibby and Artest. Suddenly the lakers have a pretty good first five, and then sign some bench players. I don't think any of those trades are that unrealistic, maybe those teams don't want to trade in their division I suppose.

[law90026]

I think the Lakers could possibly get someone like Randolph for Brown and another expiring an a first rounder maybe. That'd be a pretty good addition to their team, Kobe would have another scorer to play off of. Hell, while you are at it, trade Odom and change for Bibby and Artest. Suddenly the lakers have a pretty good first five, and then sign some bench players. I don't think any of those trades are that unrealistic, maybe those teams don't want to trade in their division I suppose.

I think this is what the front office faces really, unrealistic expectations. No one is going to take Kwame Brown for very much because he's shown himself to be more or less useless except for occasional streaks of brilliance. No matter what happens in Portland, it is incredibly unlikely they are going to give up Zach Randolph, a 20-10 guy, for so much less in return. Put it this way: Why would they do that if they can get much better talent from another team like the Bulls?

Odom for Bibby/Artest. No one wants Artest anymore because he's certifiably mad. This is a trade made for disaster. On paper I think it looks doable but it's so unlikely largely because you're adding a serious cancer to the team, one who wants to be the man as much as Kobe. It'll be interesting to watch the team implode though :D

[Neon_Chaos]

Maybe it's time to gauge the Lakers' overall talent surrounding Kobe and Kobe's talent compared to his teammates.

If Kobe and LeBron switched places, would the Lakers make it to the playoffs and compete? Would Cleveland compete?

Better yet, if you were to switch Kobe with any player in the league, would the Lakers make it to the playoffs and compete?

[rkmsuf]

Do you really think the Celts could get Kobe without giving up Pierce?

yes considering the only reason LA would trade Kobe is to blow it up and go ultra young. If the Lakers want to take on Pierce yet get rid of Kobe they might as well keep Kobe.

[Racer]

Here's a thought on a trade that the Lakers might be able to make with the Pacers.


Pacers get Lamar Odom, Andruw Bynum, Kwame Brown (one year left on his contract), and maybe the #19 pick.

Lakers get Jermaine O'Neal and Jamaal Tinsley. They could also throw in David Harrison if they want to rid themselves of all the players associated with the brawl.

[miami_fan]

Here's a thought on a trade that the Lakers might be able to make with the Pacers.


Pacers get Lamar Odom, Andruw Bynum, Kwame Brown (one year left on his contract), and maybe the #19 pick.

Lakers get Jermaine O'Neal and Jamaal Tinsley. They could also throw in David Harrison if they want to rid themselves of all the players associated with the brawl.

If I am the Pacers, I make that trade in a heartbeat. If I am the Lakers, not so much. For full disclosure, I am not a fan of Jamaal Tinsley as a starting point guard and I really believe Lamar Odom could still be a very good player if given the opportunity. The Pacers also would also get a POTENTIAL franchise center in Bynum, Kwame in a contract year and/or with an expiring contract plus a 1st rounder. Add all that to moves made earlier and you at least have a young roster with some potential while getting rid of players who don’t want to be there anyway.

[MrBug708]

I think the Lakers could possibly get someone like Randolph for Brown and another expiring an a first rounder maybe. That'd be a pretty good addition to their team, Kobe would have another scorer to play off of. Hell, while you are at it, trade Odom and change for Bibby and Artest. Suddenly the lakers have a pretty good first five, and then sign some bench players. I don't think any of those trades are that unrealistic, maybe those teams don't want to trade in their division I suppose.

I think Zach is more of a black hole then Kobe is though...

[MrBug708]

Maybe it's time to gauge the Lakers' overall talent surrounding Kobe and Kobe's talent compared to his teammates.

If Kobe and LeBron switched places, would the Lakers make it to the playoffs and compete? Would Cleveland compete?

Better yet, if you were to switch Kobe with any player in the league, would the Lakers make it to the playoffs and compete?

Kobe would go deeper then the first and Lebron would lose in the first. It has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with the division

[Atocep]

I think Zach is more of a black hole then Kobe is though...

I agree.

If they're going to have Phil coaching and run the triangle, Randolph is about the last guy they want in the post.

[Arles]

The Suns make sense as Simmons points out. LA could get back a legit star (Marion), a young budding star (Barbosa) and some picks. Kobe would also have a good shot at a championship now.

I just don't see the Suns making that kind of move or LA wanting to send him to Phoenix.

[Anthony]

Kobe to Suns makes the most sense. Nash only has a 2 year window at his current level anyway. They could easily take on Kobe and if he wanted to bolt after 2009 so be it cuz as Nash goes so does their chances for a ring. Nash, Kobe and Stoudemire is as potent a big 3 as any in the NBA, maybe more so than the Spurs.

[rkmsuf]

The Suns makes the least sense due to the fact that there is zero chance the Lakers send him there if they move him.

Makes all the sense in the world for the Suns of course. They'd burn down the Staples Center if the Lakers traded Kobe to the Suns for Barbarella and Marion.

[Mateo]

The Suns make sense as Simmons points out. LA could get back a legit star (Marion), a young budding star (Barbosa) and some picks. Kobe would also have a good shot at a championship now.

Kobe to Suns makes the most sense. Nash only has a 2 year window at his current level anyway. They could easily take on Kobe and if he wanted to bolt after 2009 so be it cuz as Nash goes so does their chances for a ring. Nash, Kobe and Stoudemire is as potent a big 3 as any in the NBA, maybe more so than the Spurs.

Brad told you about the concept of "glass-eating trades," right?

There's no way the Lakers trade him, especially to a team in the West.

[Logan]

Brad told you about the concept of "glass-eating trades," right?

There's no way the Lakers trade him, especially to a team in the West.

I do agree with you, but I think at some point you have to put thoughts of the Suns domination aside and worry about building your own team. Getting a legit star back in the deal is a requirement, and I don't know if there's anyone else out there that fits that description besides Marion. As Simmons pointed out, is Deng really that guy? I don't see it. All the other options in the East seem to be situations where you get back a few young players with a lot of potential, but no sure-fire lock of an All Star.

[rkmsuf]

I do agree with you, but I think at some point you have to put thoughts of the Suns domination aside and worry about building your own team. Getting a legit star back in the deal is a requirement, and I don't know if there's anyone else out there that fits that description besides Marion. As Simmons pointed out, is Deng really that guy? I don't see it. All the other options in the East seem to be situations where you get back a few young players with a lot of potential, but no sure-fire lock of an All Star.

The Lakers already have an All Star...Kobe. What sense does it make to trade out Kobe for Marion and make the Suns a powerhouse?

Is Barbosa really the difference here? To me if the Lakers trade Kobe they are rolling the dice on hitting on draft picks and future stars like Deng or players like him. Marion + Barbosa + the current Laker roster is a lousy team.

The #5 pick, Green, perhaps Jefferson and the Min #1 is a way better deal for the Lakers I would think.

[Logan]

The Lakers already have an All Star...Kobe. What sense does it make to trade out Kobe for Marion and make the Suns a powerhouse?

I agree with you, but if they think he's going to opt out in 2 years, I think they would be better off taking that package over whatever they could get in a sign and trade.

[MrBug708]

Kobe for Dirk and Terry
Walton and Brown for Artest
Odom, Bynum, and Vlad Rad for Garnett

There ya go. Lakers 2007-2008 Champions

[Arles]

The #5 pick, Green, perhaps Jefferson and the Min #1 is a way better deal for the Lakers I would think.
So, #5 this year (no big 2, Conley or Horford), Minnesota's pick, Jefferson and Gerald Green is better than Marion (current all-star), Barbosa (6th man of the year on a small contract for 5 years), #24 this season and Atlanta's unprotected pick next season?

Plus, there's no way Kobe goes to Boston. What people need to understand is all those deals to Philly, Boston, Memphis, Atlanta and Milwaukee aren't happening because there's no way he waves his no-trade to go to a lottery team that moved their best assets to land him.

Kobe/LA's options are basically Chicago, Detroit, Portland, Seattle, New York, Dallas and Phoenix. Out of that group, the best packages will probably be from Dallas or Phoenix.

[JeeberD]

Disgusting. To even entertain such a thought is foul...



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