May console sales #'s

[dawgfan]

Worldwide the Wii continues to close the gap with the 360 at close to 8 million sold vs. close to 10 million sold. The PS3 is lagging well behind at ~3.5 million sold. If you compare launches between all 3, the 360 and PS3 are about even, with the Wii doing much better. A big spike in sales for the PS3 between March and April helped a great deal as otherwise the 360 has been outselling it.

In the US, the 360 is starting to pull away from the PS3 in comparison of launches, and has been outselling the PS3 on a weekly basis since the PS3 launched. Aside from a big spike for the 360 over the Christmas and post-Christmas sales, the Wii has been been outselling both.

http://www.vgchartz.com/

[sabotai]

June? You can see into the future!?!?

[dawgfan]

Good point - the charts include the first week of June, but I should change the title to May.

[sabotai]

According to their weekly sales, it looks like the 360 is selling a little over 60,000 units per week on average while the PS3 is still below 20,000 per week average.

Just added them up, but keep in mind VGChartz is usually higher than NPD. The 360 in the last 5 weeks (the 4 ending in May and the first one ending in June), sold 301,158 units. The PS3 sold 98,538. The PS2 sold 291,350. Looks like May might be the first month the 360 outsold the PS2, if May is a 5 week reporting month for NPD, that is.

EDIT: And it goes without saying, which is why I didn't but I figure I should since someone will probably mention me not saying it....The Wii is still smoking all of them.

[SackAttack]

Wii could be at 12 million without half trying right now if the supply was there. I can't believe we're almost a quarter of the way through June and still we can't keep them in stock at Best Buy.

[RendeR]

I'm curious....why the hell do you guys care about all this?


Seriously? I don't get it at all, its a bunch of numbers delineating the gullibility of the masses worldwide...why is this information so interesting (since I see this thread renewed every month)?

[SackAttack]

I don't know.

Why do we have a thread for the results of each week's NFL games during the season? It's just a bunch of numbers delineating the gullibility of the fans into thinking their team is actually going to win anything.

(Right, Raiders fans?)

[RendeR]

Oh Snap!

[sabotai]

I'm curious....why the hell do you guys care about all this?

You're seriously asking why a bunch of people care about the state of the video game industry and the companies that make up said video game industry on a message board devoted to a video game?

Just a shot in the dark, but I'm guessing it's because we like video games and are interested in the success or failure of the companies that give us our video games.

I may be wrong though...

[gstelmack]

Plus we love to argue, and it's a great topic to fight over.

[Richard Weed]

Interesting that the DS outsold the PSP over 3 to 1 in Japan, yet it's 3 to 2 in the United States.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Big news out of Square Enix yesterday. No Final Fantasy games (or any of the spinoffs from the franchise) are being developed for the Xbox 360. Currenly, FF Crystal Chronicles is being developed for the DS, but all other titles in development are headed for PS consoles.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/794/794164p1.html

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting that the DS outsold the PSP over 3 to 1 in Japan, yet it's 3 to 2 in the United States.

I know a lot of people who went out and picked up the PSP after that recent price drop. I'm guessing that had a lot to do with the good sales for the PSP.

[Mustang]

Wii could be at 12 million without half trying right now if the supply was there. I can't believe we're almost a quarter of the way through June and still we can't keep them in stock at Best Buy.


I actually saw a Wii on the shelf for the first time anywhere yesterday.

[SnDvls]

I actually saw a Wii on the shelf for the first time anywhere yesterday.

My wife's been looking for one for over a month here in AZ to get me for Father's Day and no luck yet.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

My wife's been looking for one for over a month here in AZ to get me for Father's Day and no luck yet.

I still am amazed that places don't have Wii's in stock. KC is a town of 2M people and we have them in stock at more than one store within 1 mile of my home. I obviously need to buy them up and start shipping them for a premium across the country.

[MJ4H]

I saw 6 in the case at wal-mart yesterday. First time I've seen one since I got mine in January.

[Eaglesfan27]

Big news out of Square Enix yesterday. No Final Fantasy games (or any of the spinoffs from the franchise) are being developed for the Xbox 360. Currenly, FF Crystal Chronicles is being developed for the DS, but all other titles in development are headed for PS consoles.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/794/794164p1.html

Still nothing definitive as it is qualified by the phrase at this time and the article even suggests that Square may change their plans. However, this is probably the best news the PS3 execs have gotten in some time.

Edited: Of course, it looks like none of those games are coming out for at least a year which doesn't help the PS3 in the short term.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sony is now offering rewards for Gamestop locations that sell PS3's......

http://www.gamersreports.com/news/5801/sony-offers-gamestop-managers-prizes-for-pushing-ps3-units/

[MJ4H]

great. gamestop employees were already annoying enough

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

great. gamestop employees were already annoying enough

Yep. I'll now have to tell them I have a PS3 upon entering the store just to avoid the inquiry when I drop in to buy some used games.

[CraigSca]

The thing is, it's only the manager that benefits. Wouldn't something like a $25 spiff work better?

[SnDvls]

My wife's been looking for one for over a month here in AZ to get me for Father's Day and no luck yet.

update: my wife just called me...she found one so I know what I'll be doing tonight

[Neuqua]

Still can't find them in the Chicagoland area either. Frustrating.

[JasonC23]

update: my wife just called me...she found one so I know what I'll be doing tonight

Thanking her vigorously?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Thanking her vigorously?

I just drew a picture of him in my head 'thanking her vigorously'. That probably was something I didn't need to see.

[DeToxRox]

Anyone pick up that new 360? I just landed a new job and I am going to pick one up once I get my first check, my only question is if the new version is worth the extra cash.

[spleen1015]

Anyone pick up that new 360? I just landed a new job and I am going to pick one up once I get my first check, my only question is if the new version is worth the extra cash.

I don't think it is unless you plan on taking advantage of the on demand movies and shows that they have available.

You can't see the difference between 1080i and 1080p with the naked eye and the 120GB HD is a waste. You will never fill it up unless you download lots of video.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I don't think it is unless you plan on taking advantage of the on demand movies and shows that they have available.

You can't see the difference between 1080i and 1080p with the naked eye and the 120GB HD is a waste. You will never fill it up unless you download lots of video.

Agreed. Save the $80 and get the Premium version.

[Marc Vaughan]

Interesting that the DS outsold the PSP over 3 to 1 in Japan, yet it's 3 to 2 in the United States.

The price of the PSP is dropping in the UK which should help it compete better with the DS there also ...

(somewhat important to me seeing as I have a hand in that market through FM Handheld)

[DeToxRox]

That settles it, thanks Spleen/Mizzou, I'm going to heed your advice.

[stevew]

I'd go for the one with HDMI personally, just cause 1 wire instead of 5 is appealing to me. If you don't have an HDMI set, it would be less appealing obviously.

[Kodos]

Or even a hi-def set, in my case. :(

[Eaglesfan27]

I'd go for the one with HDMI personally, just cause 1 wire instead of 5 is appealing to me. If you don't have an HDMI set, it would be less appealing obviously.

Yep, between that and the larger hard drive, I'd go with that one too if I was buying at this time.

[stevew]

Or even a hi-def set, in my case. :(

Man, Joey Porter looks like even more of an ass when yiou see him in full HD. Get the wife sold on the idea better, and you'll have one in no time. You can do it, I have faith.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Or even a hi-def set, in my case. :(

Now this I just don't get. Why even buy the new systems without a HD set? Certainly, you can play them on a standard TV, but the difference in quality between the two from a gaming standpoint is night and day.

[dawgfan]

Now this I just don't get. Why even buy the new systems without a HD set? Certainly, you can play them on a standard TV, but the difference in quality between the two from a gaming standpoint is night and day.
I'm waiting to buy a 360 until I also buy an HDTV. The Wii is a different story...

[Kodos]

I don't get sucking at Sony's teet, but I figured different strokes for different folks.


Games still look better than my Xbox or PS2 can provide.

[sabotai]

I have my 360 connected to my LCD monitor. I use a VGA switch to switch between my 360 and my PC.

[spleen1015]

Now this I just don't get. Why even buy the new systems without a HD set? Certainly, you can play them on a standard TV, but the difference in quality between the two from a gaming standpoint is night and day.

Yeah, because all of the games that are available on next gen are available of current gen....

Hang. on. a. sec......

[Eaglesfan27]

I played my 360 on a standard def TV for about 7 or 8 months until we moved into the new house and then bought a HD. I thought it looked great on the SDTV. It was certainly much better than anything my Xbox or PS2 could provide.

[hukarez]

I had a 27" SDTV when I got my Xbox and 360, and didn't make the jump to my 46" XBR2 until December. I'd ideally like to free up my component cables by having my 360 connect via HDMI, but I guess that'll be further down the line when I've got excess cash lying around.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I played my 360 on a standard def TV for about 7 or 8 months until we moved into the new house and then bought a HD. I thought it looked great on the SDTV. It was certainly much better than anything my Xbox or PS2 could provide.

Fair point. It is better than the previous generation, though it would seem that you're not fully getting what you paid for in that instance.

[gstelmack]

Fair point. It is better than the previous generation, though it would seem that you're not fully getting what you paid for in that instance.

You still get full Xbox Live support, you still get advanced gameplay, physics, and sound from all that processing power and 5.1 audio output. Much as everyone likes to spout off about it, these systems aren't all about graphics. Sure, the HDTV is really nice and makes the games look fantastic, but it doesn't affect gameplay all that much...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I don't get sucking at Sony's teet, but I figured different strokes for different folks.

Games still look better than my Xbox or PS2 can provide.

I still don't get this perception. Yes, I have a PS3, but I also own a Wii and have stated many times that if you're buying a HD console for gaming purposes alone, that the 360 is the one to purchase. So that obviously means I'm 'sucking at Sony's teet'. :rolleyes:

Directly relating to my point, I think it's a waste to buy a PS3 or a 360 to play it on a SDTV.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

You still get full Xbox Live support, you still get advanced gameplay, physics, and sound from all that processing power and 5.1 audio output. Much as everyone likes to spout off about it, these systems aren't all about graphics. Sure, the HDTV is really nice and makes the games look fantastic, but it doesn't affect gameplay all that much...

I see your point. I obviously understand that not everyone can afford to upgrade to both right now.

[Eaglesfan27]

Sony has started laying off employees and blame it on the PS3 financial losses as well as the cost of developing new games for the next gen:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6172089.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;5
SCEA slices payroll

US arm of game giant "streamlines" Foster City headquarters; redundancies reportedly in the 80-100 range.

By Brendan Sinclair (http://www.gamespot.com/users/Polybren/), GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/)
Posted Jun 6, 2007 11:00 am PT


The specter of post-PlayStation 3 launch layoffs at Sony Computer Entertainment first arose at its European operations (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6169203.html) in April, and the publisher's workforce cuts have now arrived in the US. Sony Computer Entertaiment America senior director of coporate PR Dave Karraker has confirmed that a "streamlining" is underway at the company's Foster City, California, headquarters.

"In an effort to accurately align the company to meet the changing needs of our consumers and of our industry, Sony Computer Entertainment America has found it necessary to analyze our current business and to restructure the company as necessary to continue our standing as the market leader," Karraker said. "These restructuring efforts are currently under way and do include the streamlining of our operations and other initiatives to further strengthen the business, reduce costs, and increase operational efficiency." Karraker did not reveal how many SCEA staffers had been let go. According to a unconfirmed report on the popular blog Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/gaming/industry/lay+offs-hit-scea-hq-today-266292.php), 80 to 100 employees at Sony Computer Entertainment America's Foster City location were laid off yesterday. The article says management blamed the decision on multibillion dollar losses (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6170827.html) and increasing next-gen development costs.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sony has started laying off employees and blame it on the PS3 financial losses as well as the cost of developing new games for the next gen:


Let's be honest. 80-100 layoffs are a drop in the bucket that doesn't save the company anywhere near the amount they lost. Corporations do this all the time to make stockholders happy more than anything else. They likely didn't need most of these employees to sustain their business.

I went through a similar situation in a large tech corporation. There's likely been a wasteful resource setup there for some time that was never addressed because they were making money despite the issues. They lose some money, so they go through the company and find a perfect opportunity to clean up the mess that has been there for some time. People in large corporations don't get fired unless execs force the firings to save their own tail when they meet with investors.

I would add that you likely could shave the payroll at Nintendo and MS just as easily to save money without reducing efficiency overall. They just aren't doing it because they're making enough money to cover up those inefficiencies.

[wade moore]

I still don't get this perception. Yes, I have a PS3, but I also own a Wii and have stated many times that if you're buying a HD console for gaming purposes alone, that the 360 is the one to purchase. So that obviously means I'm 'sucking at Sony's teet'. :rolleyes:

Directly relating to my point, I think it's a waste to buy a PS3 or a 360 to play it on a SDTV.

This post... really?

I mean - you're trying to Punk us or something, right?

[Bee]

This post... really?

I mean - you're trying to Punk us or something, right?

He's actually a marketer for Microsoft using reverse psychology to destroy the sales of the PS3...and it seems to be working. ;)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Has anyone seen the reports that Microsoft phone representatives are currently telling people who need their 360's repaired that it may take some time to get them shipping boxes because they're out of boxes? Certainly not any new information as it's pretty well know that the failure rate is pretty high on the 360, but that's just way out of hand if true.

I do have to give kudos to Microsoft's PR wing as they have somehow found a way to minimize the exposure of the failure rates of that system. That is no small feat.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

He's actually a marketer for Microsoft using reverse psychology to destroy the sales of the PS3...and it seems to be working. ;)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the $600 price tag is hurting the sales of the system. I can't take any credit.

[Bee]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the $600 price tag is hurting the sales of the system. I can't take any credit.

And he's modest too!!! ;) :D

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

And he's modest too!!! ;) :D

In related news, I was the one that forced Paris Hilton back to court this morning.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

So the Sony execs have gone from making stupid comments to making 'duh' comments:

Quote from the SCEE president:

"Our big bangs will be arriving around September and October; Phil [Harrison] will be announcing these at a later date, but they will probably be in the arena of social gaming as well as more traditional games."

1. Don't most big games come out in that timeframe for the holiday season? I'm not sure this is a groundbreaking comment.

2. Social games = Home or Little Big Planet
Traditional games = Ratchet and Clank?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Has anyone else seen this latest marketing video/commercial? Someone has seriously lost their marbles at Sony in regards to who they use for marketing.

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/06/console-post-of-week-out-of-control.html

[albionmoonlight]

Based on the discussion of those commercials, I am not going to click on them at work.

But is that description accurate? Are those actually commericals for the PlayStation?

And, if so, Sony should make sure that someone in its gaming division did not make a Randolph & Mortimer Duke type of bet: "I bet you $1 that I can take the most respected name in console gaming and tank it in one generation . . . ."

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Based on the discussion of those commercials, I am not going to click on them at work.

But is that description accurate? Are those actually commericals for the PlayStation?

And, if so, Sony should make sure that someone in its gaming division did not make a Randolph & Mortimer Duke type of bet: "I bet you $1 that I can take the most respected name in console gaming and tank it in one generation . . . ."

Basically, the clip mentioned is an uncut version of a 20 minute commercial. It's only intended for the internet. The commercials that you'll likely see are just 30 sec. snippits of that full-length piece. I think the intent of the piece is to show that there are all kinds of people on the Home network or on PS3, but they really went WAY out of bounds with this one.

[MJ4H]

Yeah I saw it the other day. Sony has gone looney tunes.

[TroyF]

Yeah I saw it the other day. Sony has gone looney tunes.


100% accurate. Insanity.

[sabotai]

Remember when video game commercials talked about video games? Those were the days...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Remember when video game commercials talked about video games? Those were the days...

And had actual game footage in the commercial. There's a podcast called the 'Cheap Ass Gamer Podcast' or CAGcast for short. They play audio of old video game commercials at the end of each of their podcasts. It's always funny to hear a commercial stating how action packed the Soccer game for the Atari 2600 is while you listen to the bleeps and bloops in the background. Pure gold.

[KWhit]

Based on the discussion of those commercials, I am not going to click on them at work.

But is that description accurate? Are those actually commericals for the PlayStation?

And, if so, Sony should make sure that someone in its gaming division did not make a Randolph & Mortimer Duke type of bet: "I bet you $1 that I can take the most respected name in console gaming and tank it in one generation . . . ."


I guess they figured that the dead goats they previously used to sell the PS3 weren't edgy enough.

That is some high-quality management they have over at Sony.

[Big Fo]

NPD numbers as found on a different messageboard and this site (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16507)-

Games:

331k NDS POKEMON DIAMOND VERSION
314k WII MARIO PARTY 8
249k PS2 SPIDER-MAN 3
238k NDS POKEMON PEARL VERSION
227k WII PLAY W/ REMOTE
217k 360 FORZA MOTORSPORT 2
184k 360 GUITAR HERO 2 W/ GUITAR
140k 360 SPIDER-MAN 3
138k 360 COMMAND & CONQUER 3: TIBERIUM WARS
131k PS2 GUITAR HERO 2 W/GUITAR

Consoles:

[NDS] 423k
[WII] 338k
[PSP] 221,120
[PS2] 187,765
[360] 155k
[PS3] 81,604
[GBA]80,554
[GCN] 10,728

Wii outsells PS3 and XBox360 combined. The PS3 and XBox360 are still screaming for price drops, it seemed to have worked quite well for the PSP.

[twothree]

Just added them up, but keep in mind VGChartz is usually higher than NPD. The 360 in the last 5 weeks (the 4 ending in May and the first one ending in June), sold 301,158 units. The PS3 sold 98,538. The PS2 sold 291,350. Looks like May might be the first month the 360 outsold the PS2, if May is a 5 week reporting month for NPD, that is.

Looks like according to the NPD, the PS2 still outsold the 360 for the month of May. Also, it looks like the price drop for the PSP moved some units.

[sabotai]

Looks like according to the NPD, the PS2 still outsold the 360 for the month of May.

Yeah, VGChartz overestimated the 360 numbers by 40%, but only overestimated the PS2 numbers by 10%. http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=356

It also seems like May was a 4 week reporting period, not a 5 week.

[Mota]

Sony is now offering rewards for Gamestop locations that sell PS3's......

http://www.gamersreports.com/news/5801/sony-offers-gamestop-managers-prizes-for-pushing-ps3-units/

BEST CONSOLE EVAH!!!!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Another yawner of a month. There's been some dry months regarding games in past years, but this has to be one of the worst spring/summer years ever. There is absolutely NOTHING to play. It should heat up in a little over a month, but it's brutal right now.

[Eaglesfan27]

Another yawner of a month. There's been some dry months regarding games in past years, but this has to be one of the worst spring/summer years ever. There is absolutely NOTHING to play. It should heat up in a little over a month, but it's brutal right now.


Try telling that to Forza 2 owners ;)

[sterlingice]

Looks like according to the NPD, the PS2 still outsold the 360 for the month of May. Also, it looks like the price drop for the PSP moved some units.

I was about to say "Wow, the PSP showing some life" until I remembered that fact. Due to its high price point and lack of quality games, that bump will be short lived unless there's something to take advantage of it.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Try telling that to Forza 2 owners ;)

True. That is the one that did come out that does look awfully nice. The roster updates for football from EA are coming out as well for those that are into it. Overall though, the new games have been miserable. All systems are expecting an abundance of games starting in August/September through the end of the year, so I guess the best thing to do is just stash away your money and wait for a couple of months.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I was about to say "Wow, the PSP showing some life" until I remembered that fact. Due to its high price point and lack of quality games, that bump will be short lived unless there's something to take advantage of it.

SI

There's rumors of a PSP 'lite' redesign that may provide another boost. No word on when it will come out. The one saving grace for Sony right now is that their PSP and PS2 consoles are exceeding sales forecasts at this point.

[Eaglesfan27]

Not a surprise, but it looks like a PS3 price cut is going to happen some time this year:

CEO: Sony 'refining' PS3 price

Sir Howard Stringer pondering just how much he can afford to knock off the PS3's price tag to boost sales.

By Emma Boyes (http://www.gamespot.com/users/Emma_UK/), GameSpot UK (http://uk.gamespot.com/)
Posted Jun 15, 2007 3:33 am PT


A price cut for the PlayStation 3 got closer to reality today. Sony chairman and CEO Sir Howard Stringer has told the Financial Times (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c4dfbf38-1ac0-11dc-8bf0-000b5df10621.html) that he is aware that there is "no question" that consumers want a lower price
tag.

Stringer praised the success of rival Nintendo's latest console, the Wii, saying that the company "has been a successful enterprise, and a very good business model compared with ours." However, he vehemently disagreed that the Wii was more fun to play. "No, no, no, no," the executive replied to the question. He also attributed much of the difference in sales between the two consoles as due to the fact that the Wii was significantly cheaper, and that the two systems were "complementary and supplementary," to each other, and not in direct competition.

In light of this, Stringer confirmed that Sony would be looking to cut the price of the PS3--he gave no specific amount, but indicated that the company was looking to make a decision about this before the holiday season. He said, "[The amount of the price cut] is what we are studying at the moment. That's what we are trying to define."

The Sony CEO said that he "was not worried" about the PS3 at all. He said, "While [it seems] people haven't bought as many PS3s, it is no different from the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation in terms of sales." Stringer pointed out that the PS3 was following the sales path of the previous two consoles, both of which over time ended up with market dominance.

Stringer added that current games for the console were using only 20 percent or so of the machine's capabilities. "Once they use the full bandwidth the games experience is stunning...it's dazzling."

[oykib]

The Sony CEO said that he "was not worried" about the PS3 at all. He said, "While [it seems] people haven't bought as many PS3s, it is no different from the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation in terms of sales." Stringer pointed out that the PS3 was following the sales path of the previous two consoles, both of which over time ended up with market dominance.

Stringer added that current games for the console were using only 20 percent or so of the machine's capabilities. "Once they use the full bandwidth the games experience is stunning...it's dazzling."

Crackhead quote of the month.

[SackAttack]

oykib, put it in perspective.

If the PS1 and PS2 both sold 3 million units in their first six months, and the PS3 has done the same thing, then that's factually true.

If the Xbox 360 has 10 million units installed, the Wii has 8 million units installed, and the PS3 has 3 million units installed, that's ALSO factually true.

It looks like it hasn't sold well relative to the others, but on a pure numbers basis, it has sold as well as the PS1/PS2 did.

There is not, however, sufficient evidence to extrapolate that PS3 will therefore dominate as the first two did.

[twothree]

oykib, put it in perspective.

If the PS1 and PS2 both sold 3 million units in their first six months, and the PS3 has done the same thing, then that's factually true.

If the Xbox 360 has 10 million units installed, the Wii has 8 million units installed, and the PS3 has 3 million units installed, that's ALSO factually true.

On a life-to-date basis, the hardware install bases in the U.S. now look like this at the end of April (May numbers not included)(taken from this article http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16199 ):

PS2 – 38.2 million
GBA – 35.7 million
GameCube – 11.7 million
Nintendo DS – 10.9 million
PSP – 7.4 million
Xbox 360 – 5.4 million
Wii – 2.5 million
PS3 – 1.3 million

Does anyone know what the final US install base was for the PS1? Was it close to the PS2's still growing 38.2 million?

[SackAttack]

Found a forum where a guy had been posting sales numbers, both worldwide and regional. I presume from reading that those are NPD sales figures, and he's got 40.78 million PSone units installed in North America as of the end of 2004.

That's gotta be pretty close to 'final,' because I just haven't seen new PSone systems available much after about 2002.

[SackAttack]

Dola,

same thread I read is claiming 5.5 million PS3s sold worldwide to 5.82 million Wii's.

Am I the only one calling shenanigans?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

New bundle being released for Japan next month. Their going to package the new Hot Shots Golf game with the systems. Demand is high for this game as over 300,000 units have already been preordered over a month before the release of the game. FolkSouls, a RPG that the Japanese have also been targeting with lots of preorders, also comes out this coming week. Should be interesting to see what kind of boost in console sales occurs with the release of these two games and the bundle deal.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/797/797919p1.html

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More game news for the consoles. Looks like Unreal Tournament 3 will be a timed exclusive on the PS3. Epic is upset with Microsoft because they are not allowing users to create mod content on Xbox Live, so they are going to go ahead with release on the PS3 and PC and release later on the 360 when they have the issues sorted out.

Rumor: Unreal Tournament 3 - PS3 Exclusive…timed *UPDATED*

Epic’s ability to create games of AAA quality is unrivaled, making them a perfect partner for Streamline Studios digital content service. Unreal Tournament 3 will be the fifth next-generation that epic has worked in this generation.


Today a rumor has started that the much anticipated game which was previously announced on the Xbox360 and PC and later on the ps3 will be a timed exclusive on the ps3. More Details shall be unraveled at E3 this year.


UPDATE 1
http://www.gametrailers.com/bonusround.php?ep=6&pt=1 part 1 about Xbox live

http://www.gametrailers.com/bonusround.php?ep=6&pt=2 part 2 about PSN network

Geoff Keighley basically confirmed this last week. According to him it is because Sony is allowing user created mods, and Microsoft thinks it could be used to undermine their Xbox Live service. He says PC and PS3 versions release at the same time, and the 360 is coming sometime later after they sort out some issues.


UPDATE 2

In fact, he was very positive on Sony’s open attitude to networked content compared to the Xbox 360 - he commented of Microsoft’s platform: “Unfortunately it’s more of a closed platform,” and even noted that Microsoft seems to be “quite negative toward user-created content” under certain circumstances Epic has encountered.

He notes that the mod community was “an essential part of [Epic’s] success”, and commented: “We would love to transfer this mod community over to the console platforms.” Of course you’ll need a PC to create levels for the upcoming UT2007 for PS3/PC, but Sweeney believes that everything will be in place so that modders can make new levels on the PC, “download them to the PlayStation 3, and distribute them online.”

[spleen1015]

Not bad for a gimmick, eh?

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6172790.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0

Kyoto, Japan-based Nintendo's shares, driven by the success of the DS and the Wii, closed up 1.4 percent today in Tokyo at 44,500 yen (approximately $360).

The latest growth in the share price now brings the Mario Factory's market capitalisation--i.e. cumulative value of its stock--to 6.30 trillion yen ($51 billion), reports Reuters. This takes it past Panasonic parent Matsushita Electric Industrial Co.'s 6.23 trillion yen ($50 billion) and has it closing in on Sony's 6.64 trillion yen ($54 billion).

Over the last two years, Sony's stock has gained 72 percent, outperforming the Nikkei's average of 59 percent. Nintendo shares have also jumped--some 300 percent over the same time period.

Analysts reacted to the news positively. KBC Securities analyst Hiroshi Kamide said, "Nintendo is a market leader in everything it does now, which is basically the handheld as well as the console gaming market. We haven't seen Nintendo being a market leader in both products in over a decade."

Ichiyoshi Investment Management chief fund manager Mitsushige Akino said, "I think Nintendo is bound to overtake Sony (in market capitalisation)."

[gstelmack]

And there's a reason Live has much less of a problem with hacking and cheating than Sony's service...

[gstelmack]

Has anyone seen the reports that Microsoft phone representatives are currently telling people who need their 360's repaired that it may take some time to get them shipping boxes because they're out of boxes? Certainly not any new information as it's pretty well know that the failure rate is pretty high on the 360, but that's just way out of hand if true.

I do have to give kudos to Microsoft's PR wing as they have somehow found a way to minimize the exposure of the failure rates of that system. That is no small feat.

As someone who just went through the repair process (my original launch box finally kicked the bucket), I'll comment:

Took about 10 days from my phone call to a shipping box arriving. Took about 2 weeks from the time I sent that box back until my new console arrived.

In the box was a card for a one month Xbox Live Gold subscription, which I used to extend mine, along with a letter apologizing profusely and a survey about the experience to send back.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

And there's a reason Live has much less of a problem with hacking and cheating than Sony's service...

Yeah, I can certainly understand that. I'm honestly not a big online player, so I don't care one way or the other as it doesn't affect my gaming experience. I do find it interested that a company would penalize MS (in the form of a timed release) for keeping tighter standards on their products. Some people like it one way, some like it the other. The PS3 has always been seen as a more customizable console due to options like the ability to add the operating systems to the console, so I suppose the mods fit into what Sony would like their console to be in that sense.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

As someone who just went through the repair process (my original launch box finally kicked the bucket), I'll comment:

Took about 10 days from my phone call to a shipping box arriving. Took about 2 weeks from the time I sent that box back until my new console arrived.

In the box was a card for a one month Xbox Live Gold subscription, which I used to extend mine, along with a letter apologizing profusely and a survey about the experience to send back.

Geez. Did you have another console to keep you busy for that month?

[CraigSca]

Yeah, I can certainly understand that. I'm honestly not a big online player, so I don't care one way or the other as it doesn't affect my gaming experience. I do find it interested that a company would penalize MS (in the form of a timed release) for keeping tighter standards on their products. Some people like it one way, some like it the other. The PS3 has always been seen as a more customizable console due to options like the ability to add the operating systems to the console, so I suppose the mods fit into what Sony would like their console to be in that sense.

What about the XBOX toolkit that allows you to write software for it?

[gstelmack]

Geez. Did you have another console to keep you busy for that month?

Sort of. We have a pair of gaming PCs connected on a LAN, so we've been playing Titan Quest while waiting for the 360 to return so we could finish Marvel Ultimate Alliance.

Don't overlook the 1 month live card. It's only worth about $5, but they did give me something in return for my troubles...

[Chubby]

F this new expensive crap, I just bought me two brand new SNES controllers for my FC Twin :D

Total cost $16+tax

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sony announced 145 games should be available for the PS3 by March '08 (105 boxed and 40 downloadable). It will also be interesting to see which Euro games will be available that won't be sold in the U.S. since the PS3 is region-free.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=26024

Sony confirms 145 PS3 games for US before March
Mark Androvich 23:55 (BST) 21/06/2007
At least 15 first-party games due in fiscal year

Sony has promised PlayStation 3 owners that at least 145 titles are on the way to the US, which includes approximately 40 PSN titles and more than 105 boxed games.

The clarification follows Sony Computer Entertainment president Kaz Hirai's recent statement promising 380 titles within the fiscal year ending March 2008.

According to an SCEA spokesman, Hirai was citing international figures.

The number of first-party titles announced for fiscal 2007 stands at 15, including Heavenly Sword, Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction, LAIR, Little Big Planet, Eye of Judgment, and Uncharted: Drake's Fortune.

Third-party titles currently scheduled for fiscal 2007 include Coded Arms: Assault, Metal Gear Solid 4, and Ninja Gaiden Sigma.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Anybody else see this? It seems like Sony and MS handle PR quite differently. Sony ends up saying far too much and ends up putting their foot in their mouth. Microsoft says very little and acts like the problems aren't there.

Here's an interview with the hardware head at MS about the unusually high amount of console failures. Never fear.......he wants to make the customer happy.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/06/a_qa_with_todd_holmdahl_the_hardware_guy_at_microsoft_about_xbox_360_failures.html

A Q&A with Todd Holmdahl, the hardware guy at Microsoft, about Xbox 360 failures
By Dean Takahashi
Friday, June 15th, 2007 at 9:01 pm in Dean Takahashi, Dean and Nooch on Gaming, General.

I can’t imagine that gamers who have defective Xbox 360s would have a great time talking with Todd Holmdahl, Microsoft’s corporate vice president of Gaming and Xbox Products Group. He’s ultimately responsible for the quality of the game console, having spearheaded the hardware side of both the original Xbox and the Xbox 360. Holmdahl has appeared in both my books as a critical figure involved in getting the consoles off the ground. He came from the Microsoft Hardware division that makes mice and keyboards. Holmdahl doesn’t really acknowledge many mistakes in the Xbox 360 launch, as you’ll see in the interview that follows. He ran the teams that are responsible for designing and manufacturing the console. I think there are a lot more answers to discover to the questions that I posed to Holmdahl. We’ll see if the real answers shake loose from other sources.



Q: What is the post-mortem on Xbox 360 manufacturing? How has it turned out for you?

A: Like any other post mortem, there are some things you would have done differently that you learned and that you incorporate back into your processes. Overall, it was really smoothe compared to the complexity of the product we were building.



Q: The ramp of the Xbox 360 compared to the original Xbox. Was it similar or different?

A: Having lived through both of those, I remember both very well. Both were very complex products. State of the art technology. They were relatively similar in the ramp complexity and ramp speed. Exciting stuff. You and I had a conversation about this around November, 2005.



Q: I’m sure you’ve seen some of these complaints that we’ve written about from the guy who went through seven machines. There are a lot of people posting on the blog saying they still have problems. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that the quality of the Xbox 360 isn’t there. How can you paint the bigger picture for me there?

A: We’re very proud of the box. We think the vast majority of people are having just a great experience. You look at the number of games they are buying, the number of accessories they are buying, the Live attach. They love the box. They continue to buy the box. That said, we take any customer issue very seriously. We continue to look into these things very deeply. You have seen we have made some changes to our customer service policy.



Q: Do you still say that is a normal return rate for the console?
A: We continue to say the vast majority of the people are really happy with it.



Q: I’ve heard varying accounts of what is considered a normal return rate. Some people say that 2 percent is normal. Sometimes 3 percent to 5 percent is considered normal. Back to that question, can you address whether you are within those rates or within a normal rate.

A: We don’t disclose the actual number.



Q: Normal compared to the Xbox?

A: We don’t comment on that.



Q: What explains this anecodotal evidence that it’s out of whack, compared to the Wii or the PlayStation 3 or other consoles.

A: I would go back and say the vast majority of people love their experience. We continue to go back and address all of these issues on a case by case basis. There is a vocal minority out there. We go off and try to address their issues as quickly and as pain free as possible.



Q: There were some folks, who are not totally guessing, who said that when you had three million consoles in the market, you have a bone pile of bad ones. That seems to suggest a pretty high defect rate as far as the yield goes. Can you address that?

A: We don’t talk about our production.



Q: Can you say anything about the yield? Do you have a good yield? Can you say anything about the yield?

A: The important thing here is that each product that comes out of the factory is rigorously tested. To ensure highest quality for our customer.



Q: The one thing I notice is that if you don’t have a good yield, it come back and totally mess up the business model. If you are counting on a billion dollars in profits and you don’t have a good yield, where it’s like 80 percent, there goes that extra billion dollars in profit. I take it that yield is very key. It’s really important.

A: You focus on a whole bunch of different metrics. Yield is one we focus on very closely. I think if you take at what Robbie Bach has been saying for his business, it’s that the Entertainment & Devices Group will be profitable in fiscal year 2008. That is what we are targeting right now.



Q: If you have a high defect rate, won’t that ruin the business model? Won’t that ruin the profit?

A: I would say we don’t have a high defect rate. The vast majority of people are really excited about their product, and that we are targeting profitability for next year.



Q: Can you say whether the yield ramp was any better this time around?

A: We don’t comment on that.



Q: You guys did get rid of Wistron. Was that related to product quality?

A: We didn’t get rid of Wistron. It was a voluntary decision between the two of us. We try to run as efficient as possible. With our supply base the way it is now, two high quality contract manufacturers satisfy our needs.



Q: There is talk you are going to 65 nanometer chips. Can you talk about the significance of that?

A: We continue to redesign the box, continue to drive costs out. We don’t talk about the specifics of it.



Q: If you make a jump in a chip generation like that, from 90nm to 65nm, does that give you the opportunity to do a lot of things like totally resetting the quality level, totally resetting the costs?

A: Whether it is 90nm or 65nm, we have a high quality bar we target.



Q: Does the quality automatically get better if you go from 90nm to 65nm?

A: The quality is good at both of those.



Q: If it’s early or late, what’s the significance of having 65nm six months early or six months late?

A: We don’t comment on what we’re doing internally.



Q: It seems like the obvious chance to do something new. For example, does it give you a chance to do the Xbox 360 Elite?

A: You know the business as well as I do. The design is essentially the same clock for clock as the previous version. It has to perform similarly to what was done in the past, as we go through this thing. We continue to drive the same levels of quality, to increase the quality if possible, and to ensure the customer has the best experience possible.



Q: If you take the main chips from 90nm to 65nm, do you get accompanying benefits in the rest of the system? Does the board itself get smaller?

A: That’s a really good point, Dean. When you do these designs, you’re looking at the CPU or the GPU, or just one specific internal component, as we continue to look through it, we look at it as a complete system. We make sure the components work with the system, delivers the right levels of performance, and operates at the right voltage to perform at the levels we want it to perform at.



Q: There was a surge of supplies in the spring of 2006. Did that mark any particular advance in manufacturing? Was that Celestica coming online?

A: We hold as confidential our production ramp. It’s not something we talk about.



Q: I remember one of the warranty coverage changes was to offer a different kind of warranty for any of the machines made in 2005. Or any of the machines bought in 2005. It sounds like you learned something between 2005 and 2006.

A: Out of warranty repairs were for early production batches coming out of the lots in 2005. We addressed that as part of that policy or that issue.



Q: That wasn’t due to a specific thing. Was it due to the graphics memory?

A: There were no systematic issues that we responded to when we first offered that warranty.



Q: Your returns as a category. Is there any No. 1 reason for a return?

A: There are no systematic issues. The vast majority of the people just love the product, have a great experience with it. When there is an issue, we get on it and address it as quickly as possible.



Q: Was there any issue here where I didn’t ask it the right way but you could say something.

A: The overriding thing, Dean, is that people have the product, they love the product, it continues to sell well. The stuff we talked about with Live has been very successful. The game attach has been very successful. The accessory attach. We are absolutely committed to delivering a high quality experience. When people do have issues, the leadership team works to make sure that those issues are dealt with as pain free as possible. We go out of our way to try to ensure that happens.



Q: At this moment, I consider this to be your critical issue for this whole generation. What can you say about that.

A: My job is to make sure the customer is happy. This is certainly part of making sure the customer is happy. We have other things. You saw the release of the spring update. I certainly view customer happiness as one of my No. 1 responsibilities.

[TroyF]

Earnhardt Jr. will be sponsoring Sony next year in NASCAR. Actually a pretty good move for Sony and it could help the PS3 line.

MS has made their fair share of mistakes as well. (the first being not stomping on Sony's throat by making a price cut NOW)

Still, I'd say they have a long way to go to get to the level of ineptitude Sony has shown.

[twothree]

Anybody else see this? It seems like Sony and MS handle PR quite differently. Sony ends up saying far too much and ends up putting their foot in their mouth. Microsoft says very little and acts like the problems aren't there.

Here's an interview with the hardware head at MS about the unusually high amount of console failures. Never fear.......he wants to make the customer happy.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/06/a_qa_with_todd_holmdahl_the_hardware_guy_at_microsoft_about_xbox_360_failures.html

LOL. That is some funny stuff. His replies remind me of a chatterbot with a very limited database.

[MikeVic]

What a crappy interview.

[CraigSca]

That was a waste of time. The MS guy didn't say anything, but the interviewer kept on asking the same line of questions. Couldn't they have spared everyone and given sample questions beforehand to learn that the interviewee wouldn't be forthcoming with anything?

[gstelmack]

While home sick yesterday, I got to watch the G4TV Golden Mullet awards. Was fun with them showing "gameplay" footage of Gundam Mobile Suit: Whatever for the PS3 from E3, then showing the final shipping game. Was interesting to see the discrepancy between what was used to push the PS3 quality at E3 and what finally made it into an actual shipping game.

[spleen1015]

Earnhardt Jr. will be sponsoring Sony next year in NASCAR. Actually a pretty good move for Sony and it could help the PS3 line.

MS has made their fair share of mistakes as well. (the first being not stomping on Sony's throat by making a price cut NOW)

Still, I'd say they have a long way to go to get to the level of ineptitude Sony has shown.

Heard, that Jr. signed an endorsement deal with Sony, but nothing about his car being sponsored by them. Am I misinterpreting what you are saying?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

That was a waste of time. The MS guy didn't say anything, but the interviewer kept on asking the same line of questions. Couldn't they have spared everyone and given sample questions beforehand to learn that the interviewee wouldn't be forthcoming with anything?

The MS guy is quite aware of the giant elephant in the room. He knows what everyone else does: If the actual failure numbers for the 360 actually ever came to light, it would be a PR nightmare/disaster for Microsoft.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

While home sick yesterday, I got to watch the G4TV Golden Mullet awards. Was fun with them showing "gameplay" footage of Gundam Mobile Suit: Whatever for the PS3 from E3, then showing the final shipping game. Was interesting to see the discrepancy between what was used to push the PS3 quality at E3 and what finally made it into an actual shipping game.

That game was terrible. There's a long list of embarrassing games on all three major consoles at this point. I think part of the reason that people need/want the big games like Halo, MGS, FF, Mario, etc. is because the quality of the majority of the 3rd party games is really bad right now. At least they know what they're likely to get with the major titles.

[sachmo71]

Add one more to the Wii sales totals. :)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Add one more to the Wii sales totals. :)

Plenty of them in stock where you were? Some people say they still can't get them, but there's multiple stores with them in stock in my area.

[BrianD]

The MS guy is quite aware of the giant elephant in the room. He knows what everyone else does: If the actual failure numbers for the 360 actually ever came to light, it would be a PR nightmare/disaster for Microsoft.

Would it really be a "nightmare/disaster"? It wouldn't look good to have a high failure rate, but how bad is it really? As long as the customer service is decent I think that would be good enough for me.

[Neuqua]

Wii's still cannot be found in the Southwest Chicagoland area. A friend of mine (works at best buy) said that when they get in their Wii's on Sunday mornings, there is a line starting at 8:30a (store opens at 10a) to get the vouchers. It's truly incredible.

[KWhit]

I've only seen one Wii in my area (and I bought it). I continue to look around, just for my own amusement, and haven't seen another one since.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Would it really be a "nightmare/disaster"? It wouldn't look good to have a high failure rate, but how bad is it really? As long as the customer service is decent I think that would be good enough for me.

I would note that the German government currently has a case pending to force release of failure numbers in response to the large number of failure complaints by their citizens, so we may actually get some numbers at some point.

Whatever number the failure rate is, I'm sure it would be excellent ammo for Nintendo and Sony. Let's assume that it's 15-20% over a 4 year life. Would you want your competitor to have that info? I'm pretty sure that Nintendo and Sony would nail them to the wall with the failure rate. Microsoft can get away with it right now because media is unable to hit an exact number and hold Microsoft's feet to the fire. As long as they can keep the failure rate story out of the mass media, they can keep the vast majority of their potential purchasers in the dark concerning quality control.

[SackAttack]

Wii's still cannot be found in the Southwest Chicagoland area. A friend of mine (works at best buy) said that when they get in their Wii's on Sunday mornings, there is a line starting at 8:30a (store opens at 10a) to get the vouchers. It's truly incredible.

I don't know if we still have lines, but I'll find out this Sunday when I go to my 7:30a meeting at Best Buy.

[14ers]

I give up! Where the hell are all these brand new PS2 units coming from?

I thought Sony dropped the price of the PS2 just to get rid of old stock, but every month this year the PS2 has beat both the 360 and the PS3 in total sales. Does anyone know if Sony is making or losing money on the PS2? 38.2 million PS2 consoles is more than 7 times the number of xbox 360s in homes right now, and that number is increasing every single month.



I know everyone wants to talk about the Wii's numbers, but the fact that a system that was released 7 years ago, March 4, 2000, is beating both the 360 and the PS3 is amazing. I have never seen anything like this before. The PS2 will go down in the record book as the little gaming machine that would not die. As of May 2007 there are over 120 million PS2s in the world.

[Big Fo]

I have found the GBA sales in the past few months even more surprising. For $50 more you can get a DS Lite that plays all the GBA games.

[sachmo71]

Plenty of them in stock where you were? Some people say they still can't get them, but there's multiple stores with them in stock in my area.

They put them out Friday (when the ad ran), as I walked in, there were three in the cart. One was just reserved, I got the 2nd to last, and my co-worker snagged the final Wii. A guy who had just called the store from the highway was left out in the cold. It was crazy.

[sabotai]

I have found the GBA sales in the past few months even more surprising. For $50 more you can get a DS Lite that plays all the GBA games.

If you can find one...I haven't looked all that hard, but the few times over the last few months when I have gone looking for a DS, I have not been able to find one.

[MikeVic]

I have found the GBA sales in the past few months even more surprising. For $50 more you can get a DS Lite that plays all the GBA games.

The DS Lite doesn't play GB or GB Colour games... maybe the buyers want to play those too? I don't know.

[TroyF]

I give up! Where the hell are all these brand new PS2 units coming from?

I thought Sony dropped the price of the PS2 just to get rid of old stock, but every month this year the PS2 has beat both the 360 and the PS3 in total sales. Does anyone know if Sony is making or losing money on the PS2? 38.2 million PS2 consoles is more than 7 times the number of xbox 360s in homes right now, and that number is increasing every single month.



I know everyone wants to talk about the Wii's numbers, but the fact that a system that was released 7 years ago, March 4, 2000, is beating both the 360 and the PS3 is amazing. I have never seen anything like this before. The PS2 will go down in the record book as the little gaming machine that would not die. As of May 2007 there are over 120 million PS2s in the world.

The greatest console of all time. Period.

[SackAttack]

The greatest console of all time. Period.

What's more amazing to me than the sales rate is the rate at which 'must-have' games continue to come out for it.

God of War II was supposed to be the swan song, the last great exclusive.

Oops, here comes Rogue Galaxy. Really, you can light your Viking pyres now.

Oh, wait. Odin Sphere, anybody? This is it, I really mean it this time. I'm not just whistling past the graveyard.

[sterlingice]

What a crappy interview.

Reminds me of watching Condoleezza Rice on Meet the Press every time she's on. Russert tries to ask some hard question and it's either "I'm not here to talk about that" or she'll just talk about something completely unrelated.

SI

[Anthony]

do i *have* to use the XBox 360 wifi unit or can i use Cat5 cable to connect my 360 to a spare router i have and put that router on a wireless network, or is that not even possible?

[SackAttack]

do i *have* to use the XBox 360 wifi unit or can i use Cat5 cable to connect my 360 to a spare router i have and put that router on a wireless network, or is that not even possible?

I don't think that's even possible, no.

Assuming I'm understanding that question correctly.

[Anthony]

I don't think that's even possible, no.

Assuming I'm understanding that question correctly.

rats.

but what's the difference if you connect the 360 to a router or if you connect it to the 360 WiFi adapter thing?


i should probably have added that my main router that i use for internet is up in my office. i thought that router could pick up the router that had my 360 attached to it. i guess i'm wrong. :confused:

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Bill Harris discusses Xbox 360 failure rates and BR/HD-DVD war in his latest blog entry.....

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/06/console-post-of-week-when-stupid.html

[SackAttack]

rats.

but what's the difference if you connect the 360 to a router or if you connect it to the 360 WiFi adapter thing?


i should probably have added that my main router that i use for internet is up in my office. i thought that router could pick up the router that had my 360 attached to it. i guess i'm wrong. :confused:

I don't think two routers can interface with each other on the same network, no. Frequently, too, routers have firewalls built in, and I don't know if those play nice with each other.

I'm not a networking expert by any means, but between a combination of keeping my ears open when around people who DO know their networking stuff, and reports from a handful of customers who've tried the same thing and failed (none who've succeeded, though), I really don't think it'll work.

You can try it; it's not like it'll blow your Xbox 360 up if it doesn't work. I just don't think you're going to be successful, that's all.

[Anthony]

i will just spring for the Wifi. of course, i could just put my 360 in my office and plug right into my my office router, but then i'd have to play on a small tv. no thank you. :p

Forza2 is awesome. really in depth. i think i got my video game reflexes back, i may be ready to play online vs. humans.

my gamertag is Astoria23, i'll be getting Live this friday. hope to bump into a bunch of you guys.


Sack: my friend said he read a video game mag article re: 360 intercooler and how they end up frying the console. you hear any truth to that or are intercoolers safe to buy? i notice warm air coming out of mine, but i have mine out in the open so it seems like it's getting enough ventilation and i haven't played for more than 2 hours at a time (since i only have one game).

[Eaglesfan27]

Bill Harris discusses Xbox 360 failure rates and BR/HD-DVD war in his latest blog entry.....

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/06/console-post-of-week-when-stupid.html

A few of the more interesting points from that article to me were:

1. The Wii outselling the PS3 and 360 combined by a 4-1 margin.

2. Microsoft paying 50 million just for some episodic content in GTA IV. If Sony keeps Square exclusivity I wonder how expensive that will be.

3. The 360 finally has a game that appears to be a hit in Japan. Will that move more units?

4. His belief, which I share, that Sony won't come close to releasing the number of games they claim they will have out by next year.

[Eaglesfan27]

i will just spring for the Wifi. of course, i could just put my 360 in my office and plug right into my my office router, but then i'd have to play on a small tv. no thank you. :p

Forza2 is awesome. really in depth. i think i got my video game reflexes back, i may be ready to play online vs. humans.

my gamertag is Astoria23, i'll be getting Live this friday. hope to bump into a bunch of you guys.


Sack: my friend said he read a video game mag article re: 360 intercooler and how they end up frying the console. you hear any truth to that or are intercoolers safe to buy? i notice warm air coming out of mine, but i have mine out in the open so it seems like it's getting enough ventilation and i haven't played for more than 2 hours at a time (since i only have one game).


I've had an intercooler on my 360 for over a year now and I've had zero problems with the intercooler or my 360.

[SackAttack]

Sack: my friend said he read a video game mag article re: 360 intercooler and how they end up frying the console. you hear any truth to that or are intercoolers safe to buy? i notice warm air coming out of mine, but i have mine out in the open so it seems like it's getting enough ventilation and i haven't played for more than 2 hours at a time (since i only have one game).

I don't know if they fry the console directly, but considering the intercooler runs off of the 360's power supply, rather than an independent supply, I don't know if it's all that effective, either. Ineffective ain't the same as frying the console, though.

I've seen one person bring their system and intercooler in with scorch marks on the back of the system, but the system itself still worked fine. That was kind of odd, and I don't know what exactly happened there.

But no, the majority of the people I know who have purchased the Intercooler have been happy with it.

Me, I keep my system on an oak desk, standing vertically, with plenty of clearance. I keep my power supply up off the carpet. So far, still running like a champ, so...

[spleen1015]

A few of the more interesting points from that article to me were:

1. The Wii outselling the PS3 and 360 combined by a 4-1 margin.


Heh. Game. Set. Match.

Nintendo wins, now just give me good games.

[Eaglesfan27]

That 4-1 stat should have read in Japan. I forgot to include that qualifier. Still, that is impressive in Japan. Also, there is a Gamespot article about Nintendo's shares in Japan's stock market eclipsing Sony's yesterday. Also, Nintendo is expected to generate more revenue this year than Sony which would be a first in quite a few years.

[sachmo71]

Heh. Game. Set. Match.

Nintendo wins, now just give me good games.

One of the reasons: they got my wife to like it. Win the hearts of the mothers, and you win the war.

[KWhit]

my gamertag is Astoria23

Not kingjackoff77?

[Eaglesfan27]

If true this seems to be some bad news for the PS3 and the 360:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6173230.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;4


Report: Japanese publishers switching over to Wii

Namco Bandai, Capcom, and Sega are redirecting resources from Sony and Microsoft projects to Nintendo projects, reports Variety Asia.

By Tom Magrino (http://www.gamespot.com/users/TomM_GScom/), GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/) Posted Jun 27, 2007 1:37 pm PT


According to a report from Variety Asia (http://www.varietyasiaonline.com/content/view/1595/53/), Japan's top three third-party publishers are ramping up development for Nintendo's Wii and DS systems, at the expense of rivals Sony and Microsoft. Namco Bandai will reportedly increase Nintendo hardware development by 109 percent to 115 titles, Sega will up its titles by 96 percent to 49, and Capcom titles will rise by 5 percent to 20.

Not only will Nintendo platforms be getting a greater assortment of games, but they will see a greater availability of them as well. Variety Asia says that more than 26.8 million units of Wii, DS, and Game Boy Advance software will ship during Nintendo's 2007 fiscal year. By comparison, 23.3 million units of software for the Sony platform will ship during the same period. Further, Sony machines will see a 30 to 40 percent decrease in shipped units from the three Japanese publishers, while Capcom alone will increase shipments for Nintendo systems by 81 percent to 4.7 million units.

As for the why, Variety Asia states that in addition to the fact the Wii and DS are trouncing the competition in the North American (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6172584.html) and Japanese (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6171932.html) markets, development costs are lower for Nintendo's hardware.
The report also states that another Japanese software giant, Square Enix, does not plan to develop any new titles for the PlayStation 3 until the console's installed base rises enough to make increased next-gen development costs worthwhile. However, Variety Asia made no mention that the company has several PS3 projects currently in development, including Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy Versus XIII. Square Enix's president and CEO, Yoichi Wada, recently called the Xbox 360 and PS3 "over-engineered" and "mismatched" (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6172359.html) to gamers needs in a Financial Times (http://tinyurl.com/2b3e2a) report.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Official Playstation Magazine in the UK is reporting that Timesplitters 3 will be a PS3 exclusive. They haven't posted the article online yet.

[CraigSca]

Cross-post, but entirely relevant:

PS3 versions of NCAA, Madden and All-Pro run at 30fps as opposed to 360's 60 fps

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160709

[Anthony]

i picked up NBA Live '07 last nite for the 360 and for some reason always in the 2nd half of the game it would just freeze. anyone else experience that? i don't use an intercooler and it seemed like my console was blowing out some warm air - was it a circuit thing?

and in other news, i totally screwed myself when i purchased a 1 month Live card, and i used a scissor blade to scratch off the back to reveal the code and i wound up scratching off the code along with it. i'm gonna have to cross my hands today and hope they allow me to exchange it - i have my receipt showing i bought it yesterday.

[MizzouRah]

Cross-post, but entirely relevant:

PS3 versions of NCAA, Madden and All-Pro run at 30fps as opposed to 360's 60 fps

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160709

Posted that in another thread, that's crazy.

Ps3 owners have to be pissed. It's just odd that all 3 football games are running at 60 fps on the 360 and 30 fps on the ps3.. wonder what issue(s) they are having with developing games on the ps3?

[Kodos]

i picked up NBA Live '07 last nite for the 360 and for some reason always in the 2nd half of the game it would just freeze. anyone else experience that? i don't use an intercooler and it seemed like my console was blowing out some warm air - was it a circuit thing?

and in other news, i totally screwed myself when i purchased a 1 month Live card, and i used a scissor blade to scratch off the back to reveal the code and i wound up scratching off the code along with it. i'm gonna have to cross my hands today and hope they allow me to exchange it - i have my receipt showing i bought it yesterday.

Your mistake was buying NBA Live 07. That game was reviewed as being almost unplayable.

[Anthony]

you mean buggy, or just opinion speaking (not realistic)? EaglesFan27 highly recommended it (he recommened College Hoops more, but i don't like college sports).

[SackAttack]

i picked up NBA Live '07 last nite for the 360 and for some reason always in the 2nd half of the game it would just freeze. anyone else experience that? i don't use an intercooler and it seemed like my console was blowing out some warm air - was it a circuit thing?

and in other news, i totally screwed myself when i purchased a 1 month Live card, and i used a scissor blade to scratch off the back to reveal the code and i wound up scratching off the code along with it. i'm gonna have to cross my hands today and hope they allow me to exchange it - i have my receipt showing i bought it yesterday.

I know we don't accept returns or exchanges once the code has been scratched off at work. Just FWIW.

[Eaglesfan27]

you mean buggy, or just opinion speaking (not realistic)? EaglesFan27 highly recommended it (he recommened College Hoops more, but i don't like college sports).


No, I recommended NBA 2k7 by 2ksports. That is an awesome game. NBA Live is complete crap from everything I've heard.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola -

College Hoops is also a 2ksports game, not an EA game. March Madness by EA is also a very bad game from what I've read. I never bothered trying Live or their March Madness because 2ksports has put out the best basketball games for the last few years at least.

[Anthony]

I know we don't accept returns or exchanges once the code has been scratched off at work. Just FWIW.

WHEW! i decided to call ahead to prevent myself a trip and the girl who picked up the phone at GameStop said they didn't have anymore 1 month cards, but i talked her into letting me exchange it for a 3 month card and i'll pay the difference.

i'll see you boys on Live in 40 min!


it must've been my deep and charming voice that convinced her. i hope she's hot. i don't think i've ever bumped into an ugly Rachel.

[Anthony]

No, I recommended NBA 2k7 by 2ksports. That is an awesome game. NBA Live is complete crap from everything I've heard.


AAAARGH!!! lol. those names are so similar.

one cool thing about NBA Live though that i like is that you can play as Tracy McGrady as the screen is loading. that's innovation.

i'll be bringing this game back and picking up NBA 2k7. ho hum.

btw, i'm thoroughly impressed with these next gen graphics. i'm not even a graphics junky, but for a "crappy" game the graphics and look of the players are really awesome.

[sterlingice]

Official Playstation Magazine in the UK is reporting that Timesplitters 3 will be a PS3 exclusive. They haven't posted the article online yet.

TS4, maybe? TS3 was already released for Gamecube, XBox, and PS2.

SI

[Anthony]

it must've been my deep and charming voice that convinced her. i hope she's hot. i don't think i've ever bumped into an ugly Rachel.

well, there goes that theory.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/HellAtlantic/oof.jpg

[MizzouRah]

HA, NOOOOOO!!!! get rid of that pic!

[CraigSca]

It's a man, baby!

[TroyF]

If true this seems to be some bad news for the PS3 and the 360:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6173230.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;4


Report: Japanese publishers switching over to Wii

Namco Bandai, Capcom, and Sega are redirecting resources from Sony and Microsoft projects to Nintendo projects, reports Variety Asia.

By Tom Magrino (http://www.gamespot.com/users/TomM_GScom/), GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/) Posted Jun 27, 2007 1:37 pm PT


According to a report from Variety Asia (http://www.varietyasiaonline.com/content/view/1595/53/), Japan's top three third-party publishers are ramping up development for Nintendo's Wii and DS systems, at the expense of rivals Sony and Microsoft. Namco Bandai will reportedly increase Nintendo hardware development by 109 percent to 115 titles, Sega will up its titles by 96 percent to 49, and Capcom titles will rise by 5 percent to 20.

Not only will Nintendo platforms be getting a greater assortment of games, but they will see a greater availability of them as well. Variety Asia says that more than 26.8 million units of Wii, DS, and Game Boy Advance software will ship during Nintendo's 2007 fiscal year. By comparison, 23.3 million units of software for the Sony platform will ship during the same period. Further, Sony machines will see a 30 to 40 percent decrease in shipped units from the three Japanese publishers, while Capcom alone will increase shipments for Nintendo systems by 81 percent to 4.7 million units.

As for the why, Variety Asia states that in addition to the fact the Wii and DS are trouncing the competition in the North American (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6172584.html) and Japanese (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6171932.html) markets, development costs are lower for Nintendo's hardware.
The report also states that another Japanese software giant, Square Enix, does not plan to develop any new titles for the PlayStation 3 until the console's installed base rises enough to make increased next-gen development costs worthwhile. However, Variety Asia made no mention that the company has several PS3 projects currently in development, including Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy Versus XIII. Square Enix's president and CEO, Yoichi Wada, recently called the Xbox 360 and PS3 "over-engineered" and "mismatched" (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6172359.html) to gamers needs in a Financial Times (http://tinyurl.com/2b3e2a) report.


Not at all shocking. If the Wii continues to slaughter the other two, more companies will do the same. The goal is to sell as many games as you can and it's a bit easier to sell to the dominant system.

Sony is the one getting slaughtered here. MS can live with what's happening. They never expected this, but they never expected to have a 3 to 1 lead on Sony at the midway point of the year either. And the software sales are just amazing to look at.

According to the charts, the Wii sold 478,756 games last week in the US. The 360 sold 424,030. The PS3 sold 88,946.

The PS3 didn't have a single title in the top 50. To top it off, MS keeps getting unexpected hits. Dirt was not expected to be some monsterous seller. Yet by itself, it came within 18,000 units of outselling all of the PS3 titles combined.

Sony had better get the failure rate stats out. MS will likely have Halo 3, Mass Effect, Bioshock and PGR4 out before the end of November? Without even counting the duel release games like GTAIV and Assassins Creed?

Final Fantasy is going to be huge for them, but I don't know how any serious console gamer who can only afford "1" next gen system can choose anything other than the 360 at this point.

As for the football frame rate story? Good lord. I understand it's early in the dev cycle for the PS3 and that the titles that really show off the power of the system are still off a ways. (hell, it was one reason I predicted early on that the PS3 would be a major failure this year, they are competing with second dev cycles for MS, it's no wonder the MS games look and play better than most of the PS3 ones)

But still. . . To have every "team" making a football game to have their with smoother frame rates and animation on the 360? That's just brutal.

[sabotai]

one cool thing about NBA Live though that i like is that you can play as Tracy McGrady as the screen is loading. that's innovation.

Yeah, they did something similar in FIFA as well (played the demo).

And 2K Sports did something similar. In College Hoops, before each game, you can control your players as they warm up while the commentators talk about the upcoming game.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Xbox 360 repair centers now refusing to do any more repairs due to too many broken 360's. I'd hate to see the numbers if this center alone is getting in 30 a week. I will say that most current 360 owners seem resigned to their ultimate fate. Scary stuff though if you're thinking about dropping $400 on a console at this point. Not sure why Microsoft keeps scooping this under the rug rather than addressing the issue.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6183&Itemid=2

Repair Firm Won't Service Ring of Death 360s

By Tom Ivan

UPDATE - UK console repair specialist Micromart has withdrawn from offering repairs to Xbox 360s afflicted by the ‘red rings of death’ after "phenomenal" return rates made the service "financially unviable." Microsoft told Next-Gen there was no "systemic issue" with the system.

While Micromart is not an officially authorized Xbox 360 repair service, Next-Gen contacted the firm for further information regarding its decision to withdraw the repair service.

A Micromart representative said that the company felt the problem was an inherent fault relating to the motherboard in 360 consoles. He also stated that Microsoft had neglected to respond to requests for support from the company.

“We were getting a phenomenal amount of these things coming through. We were seeing about 30 a week coming in with the same problem which we identified as a fundamental motherboard fault."

During the weeks in which the problem was at its peak, the Micromart rep indicated that an "abnormally high proportion" of faulty 360s were suffering from the problem, even as many as 90% of all consoles sent in for repair.

The company is still being sent 360s with the same fault despite advertising on its website that it has withdrawn the service. "We've had around 11 or 12 Xbox 360s sent in this week and 3 of those have had the red lights problem.

"It is our belief that the only sensible way to repair it is to replace the motherboard with a new one without the inherent problems,” said the Micromart employee.

“We believe the fault is an overheating problem due to dry joints. We tried introducing flux to change the context of the compound but our efforts weren’t successful.

“We made a request to Microsoft for support, information and availability of replacement motherboards but didn’t receive a reply.

“We decided it wasn’t in anybody’s best interests to continue the sham that this fault is easily repaired.”

Microsoft reiterated its official line in an email sent to Next-Gen, stating that there is no single cause of Xbox 360 failures.

“There is not a single root cause of problems or systemic issue with any of the Xbox 360 consoles. The nature of the console itself is very complex, as it’s a consumer electronic product that contains more than 1,700 different components and 500 million transistors,” read the statement.

“There are obviously many things that can malfunction at any given time – but the majority of customers who own Xbox 360 consoles have had a terrific experience from their first day, and continue to, day in and day out.”

The statement echoes comments made earlier this month by Microsoft’s corporate VP of gaming and Xbox products group, Todd Holmdahl, who denied that there are systematic issues with defective Xbox 360s and refuted claims that there was a high defect rate relating to the console.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Cross-post, but entirely relevant:

PS3 versions of NCAA, Madden and All-Pro run at 30fps as opposed to 360's 60 fps

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160709

Not terribly surprising. EA is usually quick to find ways to cut corners if they have issues and have a year more experience on the 360. 2K sports also is working on an extremely tight budget given their circumstances. I wasn't planning on buying these games as it was. After seeing that they got lazy with the PS3 versions, they solidified my decision. There's plenty of upcoming games that didn't get lazy with framerate and resolution. I'll support those projects instead.

[MJ4H]

I am very interested in the Mii integrated modes in the EA sports titles coming for Wii. The little Ronaldinho Mii in FIFA 08 looks hilarious and I hope that this will prove to be lots of fun.

[gstelmack]

UPDATE - UK console repair specialist Micromart has withdrawn from offering repairs to Xbox 360s afflicted by the ‘red rings of death’ after "phenomenal" return rates made the service "financially unviable." Microsoft told Next-Gen there was no "systemic issue" with the system.

While Micromart is not an officially authorized Xbox 360 repair service,

This is an outside firm trying to make a buck off the repairs out-of-warranty. They decided they couldn't make a profit off fixing these is all.

[Eaglesfan27]

Not terribly surprising. EA is usually quick to find ways to cut corners if they have issues and have a year more experience on the 360. 2K sports also is working on an extremely tight budget given their circumstances. I wasn't planning on buying these games as it was. After seeing that they got lazy with the PS3 versions, they solidified my decision. There's plenty of upcoming games that didn't get lazy with framerate and resolution. I'll support those projects instead.

That is a fine choice for you, but football is a huge game seller and is a system seller and this is going to hurt the PS3. On the sports gaming boards, people are blaming Sony for making the PS3 "too hard" to program for. People are talking about selling their PS3 and buying a 360 instead. You would think Sony would have been quicker in offering their development kits and helping EA and 2ksports in optimizing their games.

[Deattribution]

This is an outside firm trying to make a buck off the repairs out-of-warranty. They decided they couldn't make a profit off fixing these is all.

It's not that they're no longer repairing them, it's that there are so many of them that need repair that is the issue.

[MizzouRah]

Not terribly surprising. EA is usually quick to find ways to cut corners if they have issues and have a year more experience on the 360. 2K sports also is working on an extremely tight budget given their circumstances. I wasn't planning on buying these games as it was. After seeing that they got lazy with the PS3 versions, they solidified my decision. There's plenty of upcoming games that didn't get lazy with framerate and resolution. I'll support those projects instead.

Enjoy your non-football gaming season!

ps3 + last in sales = least amount of support

Probably uncalled for, but I get so sick of reading every little derogatory story about the 360. When you're presented with something negative about the ps3, you sweep it under the rug. After all the good reporting of Madden and NCAA 08, you really plan to skip console football this year?

[CraigSca]

Not terribly surprising. EA is usually quick to find ways to cut corners if they have issues and have a year more experience on the 360. 2K sports also is working on an extremely tight budget given their circumstances. I wasn't planning on buying these games as it was. After seeing that they got lazy with the PS3 versions, they solidified my decision. There's plenty of upcoming games that didn't get lazy with framerate and resolution. I'll support those projects instead.

But, no response to this, posted by TroyF:

"Sony is the one getting slaughtered here. MS can live with what's happening. They never expected this, but they never expected to have a 3 to 1 lead on Sony at the midway point of the year either. And the software sales are just amazing to look at.

According to the charts, the Wii sold 478,756 games last week in the US. The 360 sold 424,030. The PS3 sold 88,946.

The PS3 didn't have a single title in the top 50. To top it off, MS keeps getting unexpected hits. Dirt was not expected to be some monsterous seller. Yet by itself, it came within 18,000 units of outselling all of the PS3 titles combined." ???

[sabotai]

Xbox 360 repair centers now refusing to do any more repairs due to too many broken 360's.

This is not why they stopped repairing them (and this is just ONE center, not centers). It's because Microsoft would not help them because they were not an authorized XBox 360 repair center, making it difficult for them to repair them. They think they need to replace the motherboard, Microsoft will not give them access to motherboards (seeing as they are not authorized), thus they must stop the service because they eaither can't get them or because it would be too expensive to get them elsewhere.

Or do you really believe a company would stop doing something because they were getting too much business?

[Daimyo]

Xbox 360 repair centers now refusing to do any more repairs due to too many broken 360's. I'd hate to see the numbers if this center alone is getting in 30 a week. I will say that most current 360 owners seem resigned to their ultimate fate. Scary stuff though if you're thinking about dropping $400 on a console at this point. Not sure why Microsoft keeps scooping this under the rug rather than addressing the issue.

Micromart is not an officially authorized Xbox 360 repair service

Do you even read the stuff you post? That is a third party company that was doing out of warranty repair work and has now decided to stop performing repairs for that one particular issue. Which says nothing about the frequency of occurrence, only the profitability of fixing it.

[MizzouRah]

Do you even read the stuff you post? That is a third party company that was doing out of warranty repair work and has now decided to stop performing repairs for that one particular issue. Which says nothing about the frequency of occurrence, only the profitability of fixing it.

Exactly.

[Deattribution]

Do you even read the stuff you post? That is a third party company that was doing out of warranty repair work and has now decided to stop performing repairs for that one particular issue. Which says nothing about the frequency of occurrence, only the profitability of fixing it.

What part of 30 a week doesn't say anything about frequency of occurrence? Regardless whether they fix them, make a billion dollars per unit or can't fix them it's still 30 systems brought in not working a week. You guys are getting as bad with this spinning stuff as the people youre accusing to do it for Sony.

[Arles]

What part of 30 a week doesn't say anything about frequency of occurrence? Regardless whether they fix them, make a billion dollars per unit or can't fix them it's still 30 systems brought in not working a week. You guys are getting as bad with this spinning stuff as the people youre accusing to do it for Sony.
I they made decent money off the repairs, they would just hire more temp summer labor to handle it. When faced with an option of having too many lucrative service jobs, most businesses don't resort to saying they will no longer be in that business. They either:

1. Hire/contract more labor if they make good money from each.
2. Start refusing service at a certain point if they make OK money from each.
3. Quit altogether if they lose money on each.

It's obvious that this company was not making much money and using this activity as a way to generate more business (but not make much profit). If they were in case 1 or 2 above, they certainly wouldn't be complaining about it.

As to the frequency, that is alarming. But I haven't seen/heard anything of that kind on US systems (especially here out west). From my standpoint, I purchased the 3-year replacement and would just take mine in to be replaced if this happened. And, I own a Wii, PS3 and 360, so I really don't have a dog in this fight.

[Daimyo]

What part of 30 a week doesn't say anything about frequency of occurrence? Regardless whether they fix them, make a billion dollars per unit or can't fix them it's still 30 systems brought in not working a week. You guys are getting as bad with this spinning stuff as the people youre accusing to do it for Sony.
How many Xbox 360s are in their coverage area? Without knowing that 30 per week is meaningless... it could be a lot or it could not be much at all. For example, if they service an area with 1M consoles, 30 per week is less than .2% of all consoles having an issue in any given year and is pretty small. If there are only 15k, it is 10% and is pretty big. So, saying they get 30 per week says nothing about the frequency of occurrence.

EDIT: I own neither an Xbox 360 or a PS3 and currently have no plans to acquire either (I'd buy a PS3 tonight if it was $200 cheaper) so I don't think I'm trying to spin anything here.

[TroyF]

The fail rates are fairly alarming. I haven't had a major issue, but I know some who have. MS has given Sony every chance to get back in the race by not dropping the price and not handling this issue correctly.

Of course, when you don't come out with any games worth a crap, it kind of eliminates your chances.

I like this sentence from B-ball fan: There's plenty of upcoming games that didn't get lazy with framerate and resolution. I'll support those projects instead.

Ummm, where?

Look at the release slate through September. The PS3 has Lair, Heavenly Sword and a bunch of duel console releases. (mainly the football games you won't be buying and Stranglehold). The 360 has Vampire Rain, Project Slypheed, Two Worlds, Moto GP, Too Human, Bioshock (my early prediction for game of the year), Blue Dragon, PGR4 and that other one. . . Halo3. That's not counting the possible release of Mass Effect in there either.

I realize a couple of the 360 games will slip, but that actually hurts Sony. It makes the stream of games even steadier. I also realize there could be a couple of busts up there, but when you release a zillion titles, you can recover from that too. What happens to Sony of either Lair or Heavenly Sword slip?

OK, so tell me, where are the games that aren't cutting corners? And let's say for the sake of arguement a game like Stranglehold does look prettier on the PS3? What does that mean really? The more I look at this, the uglier it gets.

Sony can't wait until the holiday season for the price cut. They needed it yesterday. The software figures above that have the 360 with a 4 to 1 software sales lead is only going to get bigger with the release of those titles.

Why am I not counting the Wii in here? They are going to continue to beat both the 360 and Ps3. In my mind, that isn't even a battle worth watching anymore. Sony and MS can forget catching them and need to worry about each other.

[Eaglesfan27]

Mass Effect (my most anticipated game outside of the Football games) has had a lot of storyline come out the last few weeks and the lead developer has all but said it will be out by October at the latest.

[TroyF]

My most anticipated game is Bioshock. I loved System Shock 2 and am really anxious about how good this game could be.

Mass Effect looks spectacular as well. And of course NBA2K8, the football games, the hockey games, GTA, Halo3 and any surprise hit between now and Christmas. I don't even have time to play Dirt, The Darkness or Overlord now.

Oh well, good time to be a gamer. (so long as you own a 360 or Wii that is)

[sterlingice]

How many Xbox 360s are in their coverage area? Without knowing that 30 per week is meaningless... it could be a lot or it could not be much at all. For example, if they service an area with 1M consoles, 30 per week is less than .2% of all consoles having an issue in any given year and is pretty small. If there are only 15k, it is 10% and is pretty big. So, saying they get 30 per week says nothing about the frequency of occurrence.

Ok, before we make crazy statements, point to the part of the map in Britain (uh, or anywhere) that has 1M consoles of anything this generation?

SI

[bronconick]

So, basically the PS3 isn't selling because it's absurdly expensive and the 360 has an absurd failure rate.

Hail the Wii!

Maybe next generation instead of rushing out crappy, overpriced consoles, Microsoft and Sony can spend an extra year and make them cheaper and work better. Or we can return to my youth when Nintendo dominated the console world, since we're halfway there anyway.

[gstelmack]

There's plenty of upcoming games that didn't get lazy with framerate and resolution.

Man, I wish I wasn't a developer and under NDA. There isn't anything about being lazy in regards to this. The PS3 is HARD to develop for. And it has its strengths AND weaknesses, just like the 360.

It is NOT easy to squeeze framerate out of it.

[gstelmack]

Ok, before we make crazy statements, point to the part of the map in Britain (uh, or anywhere) that has 1M consoles of anything this generation?

SI

Maybe they do a lousy job and are getting many of their own back in not too much longer later with the same issue?

[gstelmack]

And let's say for the sake of arguement a game like Stranglehold does look prettier on the PS3? What does that mean really? The more I look at this, the uglier it gets.

I'm still getting a chuckle out of G4TVs before / after release shots of Gundam on the PS3. Boy did that game look pretty at E3...

[sterlingice]

Maybe they do a lousy job and are getting many of their own back in not too much longer later with the same issue?

That I'd buy, at least partially.

That said, I know it's just anecdotal evidence which, with 100 pennies, will get you a hot dog at buck night in KC but I know 4 people with an XBox 360 and between those 4, 3 have had the red circle of doom and one even had it on a new 360 after replacing the previous one.

SI

[Daimyo]

Ok, before we make crazy statements, point to the part of the map in Britain (uh, or anywhere) that has 1M consoles of anything this generation?

SI
So are you actually arguing my point or did you just flat out not get it?

[Kodos]

Sony has really shot itself in the foot. I was a very loval Playstation fan, but I just can't see a reason to even think about buying one right now.

[sterlingice]

So are you actually arguing my point or did you just flat out not get it?

I agree with your point in principle. Yes, 30 per week may mean nothing but it also could mean something. And considering the number of stories and accounts of this going on, I'm going to opt with the latter as being more likely.

SI

[MizzouRah]

The fail rates are fairly alarming. I haven't had a major issue, but I know some who have. MS has given Sony every chance to get back in the race by not dropping the price and not handling this issue correctly.

Of course, when you don't come out with any games worth a crap, it kind of eliminates your chances.

I like this sentence from B-ball fan: There's plenty of upcoming games that didn't get lazy with framerate and resolution. I'll support those projects instead.

Ummm, where?

Look at the release slate through September. The PS3 has Lair, Heavenly Sword and a bunch of duel console releases. (mainly the football games you won't be buying and Stranglehold). The 360 has Vampire Rain, Project Slypheed, Two Worlds, Moto GP, Too Human, Bioshock (my early prediction for game of the year), Blue Dragon, PGR4 and that other one. . . Halo3. That's not counting the possible release of Mass Effect in there either.

I realize a couple of the 360 games will slip, but that actually hurts Sony. It makes the stream of games even steadier. I also realize there could be a couple of busts up there, but when you release a zillion titles, you can recover from that too. What happens to Sony of either Lair or Heavenly Sword slip?

OK, so tell me, where are the games that aren't cutting corners? And let's say for the sake of arguement a game like Stranglehold does look prettier on the PS3? What does that mean really? The more I look at this, the uglier it gets.

Sony can't wait until the holiday season for the price cut. They needed it yesterday. The software figures above that have the 360 with a 4 to 1 software sales lead is only going to get bigger with the release of those titles.

Why am I not counting the Wii in here? They are going to continue to beat both the 360 and Ps3. In my mind, that isn't even a battle worth watching anymore. Sony and MS can forget catching them and need to worry about each other.

I heart you Troy, great post.

For $600 there's really not much going on gaming wise for the ps3.. and considering how much I played my ps2 and my kids still do, that's shocking.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yowsa! Post an article and let the discussions fly! Good posts. Lots of stuff to chat about with a lot of games coming pretty quickly for all consoles.

As a sidenote, if you are a PS3 owner, Super Stardust HD is a must-buy. Really well-done game with great gameplay and graphics. I won't buy any of the old retro games, but SS HD is a great game and only $8. Wife and I played co-op mode and had a great time, which is no small feat as my wife doesn't play many games.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

That is a fine choice for you, but football is a huge game seller and is a system seller and this is going to hurt the PS3. On the sports gaming boards, people are blaming Sony for making the PS3 "too hard" to program for. People are talking about selling their PS3 and buying a 360 instead. You would think Sony would have been quicker in offering their development kits and helping EA and 2ksports in optimizing their games.

Oh, there's no doubt about the negative effect within the gaming community. It's the reason I choose not to buy any of them if that's the case.

Both the PS3 and the 360 have some major warts right now. PS3 is too expensive. 360 dies an unexpected death far too often. This seems to be resembling a presidential campaign more and more. It's not a case of which console is best between the PS3 and 360. It's a case of which one has the least trash in their trailer.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Enjoy your non-football gaming season!

ps3 + last in sales = least amount of support

Probably uncalled for, but I get so sick of reading every little derogatory story about the 360. When you're presented with something negative about the ps3, you sweep it under the rug. After all the good reporting of Madden and NCAA 08, you really plan to skip console football this year?

I'll skip the first part.

As far as football games, I have no problem pocketing the money that I would have used for football games. To be honest, I can go out and grab a used version of last year's Madden game if I truly want to get a football fix. In that case, I contribute nothing to EA and save about $40 on a game. I'm under no notion that I have to have a game just because of the previews.

Worst case, if I find a month or two later that one of them is the best football game ever made, I can still pick up a used copy before the season even starts. I'm not willing to reward mediocre work. I expect more from EA with the budget they're running on. I haven't had any problem not playing the Madden/NCAA games the past 3 years.......why would I have any problem not buying them this year?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FYI.....noticed that Warioware: Smooth Moves is $25 at Amazon today. Good price for those that don't have it.

[twothree]

Reuters is reporting that "Nintendo Wii outsells PS3 6 to 1 in Japan in June"

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUST20345020070702

[TroyF]

Oh, there's no doubt about the negative effect within the gaming community. It's the reason I choose not to buy any of them if that's the case.

Both the PS3 and the 360 have some major warts right now. PS3 is too expensive. 360 dies an unexpected death far too often. This seems to be resembling a presidential campaign more and more. It's not a case of which console is best between the PS3 and 360. It's a case of which one has the least trash in their trailer.


Wrong.

Problems:

360 - Fail rate, not handling the PR better.

PS3 - Expensive. PR disaster. COMPLETE AND TOTAL LACK OF GAMES.

At this point, #3 is the biggest killer for Sony. Yes, MS has an issue, but at least with the 360 people know that there is a solid and expanding library of solid games to play.

There isn't any question who has less trash in the trailer right now. MS has a single issue that is impacting it. Despite that, they continue to outsell the PS3 2-1 in America, ousell the PS3 in software 4-1 in America (something that's going to get ridiculously wider as we move into fall), and already have a large install base.

In your political terms, MS has been caught getting a BJ in the oval office. Sony has been caught getting a BJ in the oval office. . . with an 18 year old boy and a leaked YouTube video of the incident.

[Bee]

The BJ comparison is pretty funny. :D

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wrong.

Problems:

360 - Fail rate, not handling the PR better.

PS3 - Expensive. PR disaster. COMPLETE AND TOTAL LACK OF GAMES.

At this point, #3 is the biggest killer for Sony. Yes, MS has an issue, but at least with the 360 people know that there is a solid and expanding library of solid games to play.

There isn't any question who has less trash in the trailer right now. MS has a single issue that is impacting it. Despite that, they continue to outsell the PS3 2-1 in America, ousell the PS3 in software 4-1 in America (something that's going to get ridiculously wider as we move into fall), and already have a large install base.

In your political terms, MS has been caught getting a BJ in the oval office. Sony has been caught getting a BJ in the oval office. . . with an 18 year old boy and a leaked YouTube video of the incident.

Without question, you missed your calling as a soap opera writer. Kudos for the dramatic analysis. I don't agree with it all, but you have a way of leaving the reader speechless.

[Eaglesfan27]

Oh, there's no doubt about the negative effect within the gaming community. It's the reason I choose not to buy any of them if that's the case.

Both the PS3 and the 360 have some major warts right now. PS3 is too expensive. 360 dies an unexpected death far too often. This seems to be resembling a presidential campaign more and more. It's not a case of which console is best between the PS3 and 360. It's a case of which one has the least trash in their trailer.


My launch day 360 is going strong as are all of my friends. The 360 certainly has a failure rate issue, but I expect it is much lower than the 15-20% that is being bandied about as rumor. Shrug, I'm just happy mine has worked well for almost 2 years.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Bill Harris blog entry about 360 console failure rates, PS3 supply overload, and Wii sales......

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/07/console-post-of-week.html

[Hoya1]

I love my PS3, but I'll be honest with you....there just isn't any games out there. I tried Madden and did not like the gameplay. I own NBA 2k7 and play that pretty much exclusively. I have Knockout Kings, but the damn loading times just kill me. I was given 'the Godfather" for fathers day, but I haven't opened it yet.

I feel a little slighted by Sony simply because there is just no games. I bought the PS3 for me, but I know atleast 4 other families that purchased Wii's for their's. I'm a loyal PS guy since the beginning. Just don't let me down

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

My launch day 360 is going strong as are all of my friends. The 360 certainly has a failure rate issue, but I expect it is much lower than the 15-20% that is being bandied about as rumor. Shrug, I'm just happy mine has worked well for almost 2 years.

The failure rate is an interesting discussion. Normally, you would think that high failure rates (we'll use your 15-20% number) simply couldn't be a possibility. That's a lot of consoles having a problem. That would indicate a significant design issue.

So, all Microsoft has to do is come out and display that the failure rate is much lower than is being discussed. They can come out and say that the failure rate is, for example, 2% and this would all go away. There's only one problem with that. Microsoft has gone out of its way to hide the failure rate at all costs. So why hide it? I think most of the industry has drawn their own conclusions.

[TroyF]

Nothing shocking in that.

I agree with him on most everything there. I think calling the fail rate a disaster is a little overblown at the moment, but if MS doesn't meet the issue head on, it will get that way eventually.

I aslo think the lineup of games, especially over the next few months will DOMINATE the discussion. When you look at the lineup through September I posted above, it's staggering how much stronger the 360 lineup is. Sony can only pray that the red ring of death stories dominate the day, because they won't be having anything on their console doing anything to get press.

And Nintendo. Again, like I posted above. It's over. MS and Sony need to worry about each other at this point. Neither will catch the Wii in terms of console sales for the next 2+ years at lease. They have a chance with software, but even that is going to be a difficult road to go down. Developers are going to be spending a ton of time working on titles for the Wii with an install base that strong. It's just reality.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I love my PS3, but I'll be honest with you....there just isn't any games out there. I tried Madden and did not like the gameplay. I own NBA 2k7 and play that pretty much exclusively. I have Knockout Kings, but the damn loading times just kill me. I was given 'the Godfather" for fathers day, but I haven't opened it yet.

I feel a little slighted by Sony simply because there is just no games. I bought the PS3 for me, but I know atleast 4 other families that purchased Wii's for their's. I'm a loyal PS guy since the beginning. Just don't let me down

Agreed. The PS3 has not measured up to what it was supposed to be at this point. There's a few things to like about the system, but I think it's fair to say that the overall experience is sour thus far.

[albionmoonlight]

MS is in a bit of a PR pickle here, right?

Leaving aside how much it would cost to redesign the system (which cost might end up being high enough to make the point moot), they take a PR hit either way. Either you redesign the system, which means that you have to admit that it was designed poorly in the first place, or you don't redesign the system, and these problems keep occuring.

Does anyone know if the Elite system has widespread red ring problems? Maybe they tried to solve the problem by redesigning the system to fix the issue without ever admitting that it needed to be redesigned for that reason.

[spleen1015]

How much impact is the red ring of death having on how things have played out thus far?

Are there people thinking about this and the fact that the PS3 is not a viable gaming option at this time, thusly buying the Wii?

[TroyF]

How much impact is the red ring of death having on how things have played out thus far?

Are there people thinking about this and the fact that the PS3 is not a viable gaming option at this time, thusly buying the Wii?

I don't think the red ring of death issue is imnpacting MS a lot in terms of sales.

The Wii is selling because:

1) It's cheaper than the other two.
2) It's a terrific "family" system.
3) It's innovative.
4) The Buzz surrounding it was high at the start and hasn't let up.

Could the red ring of death impact sales at some point? No question. If MS doesn't meet the issue head on and address the problems with it, the perception will turn into reality and it'll hurt the 360 in a big, big way.

I don't think we are at that point yet.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Does anyone know if the Elite system has widespread red ring problems? Maybe they tried to solve the problem by redesigning the system to fix the issue without ever admitting that it needed to be redesigned for that reason.

I posted a link in an older 'console sales' thread from a previous month concerning that. There were some tech geeks that had tore open an new Elite to check for redesigns of the area causing the problem. They said that the design had not changed to remedy the problem. Don't really see any reason why it would change. It's the same motherboard. Changing the process would cost MS extra money, which is likely why it remains the same.

If I find the link, I'll post it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

How much impact is the red ring of death having on how things have played out thus far?

Are there people thinking about this and the fact that the PS3 is not a viable gaming option at this time, thusly buying the Wii?

Doubt it. The Wii is just a fun system at a good price point at the right time. I doubt Nintendo's wildest expectations could have reached this level. They just hit the sweet spot. Part of that is planning and part is dumb luck with a little PR mixed in. Sometimes things just work out.

[Synovia]

Microsoft has gone out of its way to hide the failure rate at all costs. So why hide it? I think most of the industry has drawn their own conclusions.

For the same reason our government keeps saying we're winning in Iraq. For the same reason that Sony says they can't keep up with the demand when there is no demand...... Addressing the failure issue is admitting that its widespread, and is an issue, and not just an isolated thing. PR departments dont like doing that.

[Bee]

For the same reason our government keeps saying we're winning in Iraq. For the same reason that Sony says they can't keep up with the demand when there is no demand...... Addressing the failure issue is admitting that its widespread, and is an issue, and not just an isolated thing. PR departments dont like doing that.

I also don't think it would do any good. If the failure rate is high, it obviously makes them look bad. If the numbers are low, everyone will say the numbers are wrong and accuse them of providing fake numbers.

[gstelmack]

I posted a link in an older 'console sales' thread from a previous month concerning that. There were some tech geeks that had tore open an new Elite to check for redesigns of the area causing the problem. They said that the design had not changed to remedy the problem. Don't really see any reason why it would change. It's the same motherboard. Changing the process would cost MS extra money, which is likely why it remains the same.

If I find the link, I'll post it.

The original article pointed out that there WERE changes in the Elite. They said Microsoft had "tweaked" (admittedly just a tweak) the connections to help keep them from separating, which the techs claimed was the red-ring-of-death problem.

There were also reports of a new heatsink design in Europe.

[MizzouRah]

I'll skip the first part.

As far as football games, I have no problem pocketing the money that I would have used for football games. To be honest, I can go out and grab a used version of last year's Madden game if I truly want to get a football fix. In that case, I contribute nothing to EA and save about $40 on a game. I'm under no notion that I have to have a game just because of the previews.

Worst case, if I find a month or two later that one of them is the best football game ever made, I can still pick up a used copy before the season even starts. I'm not willing to reward mediocre work. I expect more from EA with the budget they're running on. I haven't had any problem not playing the Madden/NCAA games the past 3 years.......why would I have any problem not buying them this year?

NCAA has been quite good since 2004, although I didn't like the 360 version last year (played the ps2 version).

What about the 2k game?

Considering you're on a football gaming message forum, I would think you would be pissed at the poor framerates these games are going to have.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

NCAA has been quite good since 2004, although I didn't like the 360 version last year (played the ps2 version).

What about the 2k game?

Considering you're on a football gaming message forum, I would think you would be pissed at the poor framerates these games are going to have.

Ah, but this is a FOF forum, not Madden Nation. :)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The original article pointed out that there WERE changes in the Elite. They said Microsoft had "tweaked" (admittedly just a tweak) the connections to help keep them from separating, which the techs claimed was the red-ring-of-death problem.

There were also reports of a new heatsink design in Europe.

The tweak that you mentioned was to add a bit of glue in the hopes that the piece would stay in place. They commented in the article that it likely wouldn't do any good related to the console failures.

Not sure about the heatsink.

[MizzouRah]

Ah, but this is a FOF forum, not Madden Nation. :)

What did you get a console for then? :)

I love all types of games, but football is a staple on consoles going back to Atari football. :D

[Eaglesfan27]

Speaking of bad news for Sony, it looks like GT5 will be pushed back to late 08:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=167050

[TroyF]

Good lord. The hits just keep on coming. So Forza 3 might be ready for the next version of GT. Nice.

[SirFozzie]

An interesting article from Bill Harris on the glut of PS3's. They're selling 300K a month... but making 900K a month. This could be a problem.

Dunno if they're in a different reality where they're not #3 in the sales race, or if they know something we don't know.

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/07/console-post-of-week.html

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Speaking of bad news for Sony, it looks like GT5 will be pushed back to late 08:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=167050

They've been saying that for awhile, have they not? It was originally scheduled for Spring '08, but then they decided to add damage modeling and it was mentioned that it would be fall '08 before that came out. The developers hadn't said that publicly, but it had been rumored for a few months now. Competition in the form of Forza finally pushed them to add damage modeling. It's about time.

[Eaglesfan27]

They've been saying that for awhile, have they not? It was originally scheduled for Spring '08, but then they decided to add damage modeling and it was mentioned that it would be fall '08 before that came out. The developers hadn't said that publicly, but it had been rumored for a few months now. Competition in the form of Forza finally pushed them to add damage modeling. It's about time.


First I've heard of it. I always thought it was going to be late 07/early 08 and was supposed to be one of the PS3's system sellers.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

First I've heard of it. I always thought it was going to be late 07/early 08 and was supposed to be one of the PS3's system sellers.

FF and MGS are supposed to be the early 08 flag bearers in that regard. Sony can't afford for those titles to fall any further.

[spleen1015]

Deja vu all over again.

[TroyF]

First I've heard of it. I always thought it was going to be late 07/early 08 and was supposed to be one of the PS3's system sellers.


That's looking like Final Fantasy to me. I see nothing else on the horizon that could sell systems for the PS3.

God of War 3 could, but that's way the heck off.

Maybe my criticism of Sony was way off. I said that they were marketing a DVD player and not a gaming system and how that was a terrible decision. Maybe they realized they'd only have a few games on it worth playing for a year and a half and knew the only chance they had to sell any system was the Blu Ray.

I take it back, they aren't that smart.

[Eaglesfan27]

FF and MGS are supposed to be the early 08 flag bearers in that regard. Sony can't afford for those titles to fall any further.

Square has already said that April 08 is the "earliest" that FF13 will be ready and that it is possible it will be late 08.

[spleen1015]

I'll take the over on 4/08.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Square has already said that April 08 is the "earliest" that FF13 will be ready and that it is possible it will be late 08.

Yeah, a slip would not be good. That's one they really need badly.

A sleeper for this holiday season is likely Ratchet and Clank. Lots of good vibes from that one in the previews. I'm not sure it's a system seller by any means, but it's looking like it could be a great game.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Does anyone know when E3 occurs? I know it's coming up pretty quickly. MS and Sony are both supposedly tossing a lot of new info out, some which will be surprising.

[spleen1015]

July 11-13

[CraigSca]

That's looking like Final Fantasy to me. I see nothing else on the horizon that could sell systems for the PS3.

God of War 3 could, but that's way the heck off.

Maybe my criticism of Sony was way off. I said that they were marketing a DVD player and not a gaming system and how that was a terrible decision. Maybe they realized they'd only have a few games on it worth playing for a year and a half and knew the only chance they had to sell any system was the Blu Ray.

I take it back, they aren't that smart.

Where did I see that only a percentage in the teens use their consoles to watch movies? It may have been here - if so, my bad.

[Eaglesfan27]

I think it was posted here, but I also saw it on G4 recently. According to a survey, only 14% of users are watching movies on their next gen consoles.

[twothree]

Where did I see that only a percentage in the teens use their consoles to watch movies? It may have been here - if so, my bad.

Probably a news article mentioning this report.

http://www.thediffusiongroup.com/The-Multimedia-Future-of-Next-Gen-Game-Consoles-Remains-Uncertain.htm

[TroyF]

OK, so honestly, after reading just the last 3 pages of this thread, if you had a major bet for Sony winning this generation of the console war, would you jump out a window, beat yourself to death with your new system or watch Planet Earth on Blu Ray and cry yourself to sleep every night?

[CraigSca]

The thing is - I was a huge Sony fanboy.

I've had my PS2 for years, but Sony lost the race (for me) when NCAA came out on the 360 a full year before the PS3's. Then, when MLB 2007 - The Show came out, I was "this close" to pulling an idiotic financial move and getting a PS3 just to play it (as it's right up there with NCAA as a must-have for me). However, the price is just too high - I can't substantiate it in my head (and when it comes to irrational purchases like this, it doesn't take much to do so).

I've had the 360 for one year now and my kids play it constantly. I've had one ring of death episode (when the kids left the door closed on the bookshelf the 360 sits), turned it off, let it cool down and it was fine. I've since taken it out of the shelf and haven't had an issue.

The bottom line for me is this: I love Sony products. Everything I bought for years was Sony because I trusted their quality and continue to do so. However, the PS3 was delayed too much and then was released with a price tag that is just insane. Basically, the decision was made for me.

[gstelmack]

I think it was posted here, but I also saw it on G4 recently. According to a survey, only 14% of users are watching movies on their next gen consoles.

I'm one now. We ran out of room in the 400-disc changer, and the kids are getting old enough to mess with the remote, so all of the cool action flicks and other movies not suitable for a 4-year-old and a 2-year-old are getting yanked out and on to a shelf, and it's much easier to plop one into the 360 than into the changer.

So the kids watch their movies in the changer, and on the rare occasion my wife and I have a chance to watch a movie, we're watching on the 360.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm one now. We ran out of room in the 400-disc changer, and the kids are getting old enough to mess with the remote, so all of the cool action flicks and other movies not suitable for a 4-year-old and a 2-year-old are getting yanked out and on to a shelf, and it's much easier to plop one into the 360 than into the changer.

So the kids watch their movies in the changer, and on the rare occasion my wife and I have a chance to watch a movie, we're watching on the 360.

Geez. I've got a 400 disc changer and only have about 200 filled. I thought I was bad, though I did just have a kid, so that's likely to increase the movie totals. :)

[spleen1015]

Is there anything in the 200 range?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Is there anything in the 200 range?

They produce a similar changer for CD's that holds 300. The nice thing about the 400 DVD player is that you can also put music CD's in there. Pretty good deal for about $300-350.

[spleen1015]

A disc changer in a console would be nice.

[TroyF]

The thing is - I was a huge Sony fanboy.

I've had my PS2 for years, but Sony lost the race (for me) when NCAA came out on the 360 a full year before the PS3's. Then, when MLB 2007 - The Show came out, I was "this close" to pulling an idiotic financial move and getting a PS3 just to play it (as it's right up there with NCAA as a must-have for me). However, the price is just too high - I can't substantiate it in my head (and when it comes to irrational purchases like this, it doesn't take much to do so).

I've had the 360 for one year now and my kids play it constantly. I've had one ring of death episode (when the kids left the door closed on the bookshelf the 360 sits), turned it off, let it cool down and it was fine. I've since taken it out of the shelf and haven't had an issue.

The bottom line for me is this: I love Sony products. Everything I bought for years was Sony because I trusted their quality and continue to do so. However, the PS3 was delayed too much and then was released with a price tag that is just insane. Basically, the decision was made for me.


Who wasn't a Sony fanboy during hte middle of the PS2 years? Simply put, if you weren't a Sony fanboy with the PS2, you weren't a console gamer. I own a lot of Sony products, including the PSP, which is think is an underrated system.

I purchased the PS3 for a variety of reasons. And it's been sitting on the shelf. I played through Resistence. (incredible game) I played some The Show. (decent game, but it didn't hold my attention long term) Am playing SpiderMan 3 to review it (early line of thinking is BLEK) And I purchased Planet Earth on Blu Ray.

All told, the system as a whole has been less used three months than 3 INDIVIDUAL games released this year for the 360. (Crackdown, Forza, Shivering Isles) That's painful. And the thing is, it isn't slowing up.

With the FPS issue, I'll purchase all of the football games I want for the 360. Mass Effect, BioShock and Halo3? Good lord, if my 360 doesn't get the ring of death by October, I doubt it ever will.

I'm actually hoping GTAIV is better on the PS3 so I can actually play a game to death on it. I'm not holding my breath.

[gstelmack]

Geez. I've got a 400 disc changer and only have about 200 filled. I thought I was bad, though I did just have a kid, so that's likely to increase the movie totals. :)

Yeah, the kids eat into it FAST. As I said, they are starting to push our movies out.

As for 200 disc changers, Sony made a version that went with their VAIO Media Center PCs and was controlled by it.

Me, I want the more expensive Sony 400-disc changer. In fact, I want 3 of them, plus one of those high-end controllers. For something like $3000 you get 1200 discs online with a computer to sort and manage them and look up their details online so you don't have to enter them.

Of course, I have kids, so that ain't happenin'.

[stevew]

A disc changer in a console would be nice.

Yeah, no crap.

Right now I'm looking at possibly getting the 400 disc sony upconvert DVD player, just cause it'd be the easiest way to store everything.

For those in the know, does that DVD player lock shut, just so little hands can't open it and screw up my discs?

[stevew]

dola, this model.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=11038348

Not the 800 dollar one.

[MizzouRah]

Yeah, a slip would not be good. That's one they really need badly.

A sleeper for this holiday season is likely Ratchet and Clank. Lots of good vibes from that one in the previews. I'm not sure it's a system seller by any means, but it's looking like it could be a great game.

Wow, all ps3 purchasers have to talk about right now is Ratchet and Clank? ;)

This does bum me out some as I've been a Sony fanboy for some time as well, in fact when it comes to TV's I will only buy a Sony. Too bad they won't see my $$$ for a console for a LONG time, maybe never. :(

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Probably a news article mentioning this report.

http://www.thediffusiongroup.com/The-Multimedia-Future-of-Next-Gen-Game-Consoles-Remains-Uncertain.htm

The PS3 was not included in that study. Note the update at the bottom of this story.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/06/29/sorry-sony-console-buyers-dont-care-about-watching-movies/

[Eaglesfan27]

That update in which they don't reveal their source doesn't make sense considering the lead researcher specifically mentions the PS3 when talking about the study.

[bronconick]

I'll take the over on 4/08.

No kidding.

[SackAttack]

All told, the system as a whole has been less used three months than 3 INDIVIDUAL games released this year for the 360. (Crackdown, Forza, Shivering Isles) That's painful. And the thing is, it isn't slowing up.

Oh, come on. I'm sending you Harry Potter for the PS3. Doesn't that make it all worth it?

[TroyF]

Oh, come on. I'm sending you Harry Potter for the PS3. Doesn't that make it all worth it?

Sweet. I'm sure that one is gonna be the game that turns this around for the PS3. :)

[SackAttack]

Sweet. I'm sure that one is gonna be the game that turns this around for the PS3. :)

Plus, Transformers. Harry Potter plus Transformers.

All you need is Shrek PS3, and you'll be set. Did we get it for that? I forget. :)

[Big Fo]

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7892

An article about Xbox360 failure rates, estimated at 30-33%. Could just be BS, basing their stats on interviewing EB workers on return rates, but everything I've heard/read does suggest there is a massive problem with the hardware.

I'm waiting on Microsoft to fix the RRoD problems or Sony to drop the PS3 to $400 so I could pick one of these systems up without feeling like a jackass. $600 is a terrible price for a game system and I'm not shelling out $400 on something that could easily die right after my warranty expires.

[Kodos]

While I avoid the Best Buy replacement deals like the plague, the 360 was made for getting the replacement package. Only I bought mine at Target... :(

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7892

An article about Xbox360 failure rates, estimated at 30-33%. Could just be BS, basing their stats on interviewing EB workers on return rates, but everything I've heard/read does suggest there is a massive problem with the hardware.

I'm waiting on Microsoft to fix the RRoD problems or Sony to drop the PS3 to $400 so I could pick one of these systems up without feeling like a jackass. $600 is a terrible price for a game system and I'm not shelling out $400 on something that could easily die right after my warranty expires.

I'll give Microsoft a load of credit. If they manage to continue to shovel this issue under the rug without being called out on it, they have the greatest PR group in the business. How you can have a quality control issue of this magnitude on a product without getting significant negative national press for over 1 1/2 years should be a study in any college marketing class. It's solid work and I sincerly mean that.

[TroyF]

I'll give Microsoft a load of credit. If they manage to continue to shovel this issue under the rug without being called out on it, they have the greatest PR group in the business. How you can have a quality control issue of this magnitude on a product without getting significant negative national press for over 1 1/2 years should be a study in any college marketing class. It's solid work and I sincerly mean that.

I just don't buy 30%. I really don't.

As someone else said, I think MS is in a no win now. They say it isn't as high as reported and they are lying. They say nothing and they aren't dealing with the issue.

If it really is at 30%, it's a stunning failure rate. Truly stunning.

My guess is that it isn't half that. I'd go for 10-15%, which is still ridiculous on a ton of levels. But 1/3 of the systems dying? Again, I just can't believe that. We'll see how this plays out as we move forward. I could be wrong and if I am, it's a disaster for the 360 unless they can prove the problem is fixed.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

My guess is that it isn't half that. I'd go for 10-15%, which is still ridiculous on a ton of levels. But 1/3 of the systems dying? Again, I just can't believe that. We'll see how this plays out as we move forward. I could be wrong and if I am, it's a disaster for the 360 unless they can prove the problem is fixed.

I have 10 friends with a 360. 4 of them have returned a console and 2 of those people had to return the second one they received, which were refurbished units. So that's 6 failures out of 13 consoles. I don't believe that the rate is that high and the sample size is obviously quite small, but even a small sample of consoles should never reach that level of failure. Their failure rates were one of the main reasons I personally didn't pick up a 360. I'm much like the other person in that I simply can't see dropping that kind of money on a system with a failure rate even at the 15% that you suggest.

[stevew]

It might be 30%, but I'd wager half of those are due to people being idiots, dropping it, obviously not using it as intended, aka on carpeting, lugging it around everywhere in a backpack. 15% is still a huge failure rate, tho.


That's one thing I always argue about in "warranty meetings" we have at sears. If a TV breaks enough that the protection agreement on it needs to be at 35% of the cost due to possible repairs/replacement of it, you would think that all manner of State AG's would be investigating Samsung, Sony et. al. for their obviously defective products.

[Eaglesfan27]

I have 10 friends with a 360. 4 of them have returned a console and 2 of those people had to return the second one they received, which were refurbished units. So that's 6 failures out of 13 consoles. I don't believe that the rate is that high and the sample size is obviously quite small, but even a small sample of consoles should never reach that level of failure. Their failure rates were one of the main reasons I personally didn't pick up a 360. I'm much like the other person in that I simply can't see dropping that kind of money on a system with a failure rate even at the 15% that you suggest.


While I have 4 friends in the Louisiana area with a 360 and none of them have failed. My launch 360 has only frozen when playing Madden 06 which had a bug in the scheduling and injured players. I've never had another problem with it. That would give a 0% rate. Even the article you listed isnt' scientific. I'm with Troy, I think it is probably 10-15% at the highest - which is still very bad. I can't fathom that it would be around 30%.

[sabotai]

Since we're throwing out anecdotal evidence, I know 6 people with XBox 360s, including myself, all have had them for over a year, with a grand total of zero failures.

[KWhit]

I've never had a 360 failure. So that's 0% for me as well.

[MJ4H]

even a small sample of consoles should never reach that level of failure.

This is fallacious. In fact it is the entire reason that small sample sizes can be misleading: because they can reach that level of failure when the overall failure rate is far smaller.

[Groundhog]

The 360 I own was bought on launch day, and the only failure I have is a "dirty disc" error that would crop up sometimes when playing NBA 2K7. First the commentary would stop but the game would continue for another minute or two, then the error would pop up.

I've since moved and my 360 is now more in the open, and I'm yet to see the error again over the past couple of weeks. Outside of that, no issues what-so-ever.

[TroyF]

I have 10 friends with a 360. 4 of them have returned a console and 2 of those people had to return the second one they received, which were refurbished units. So that's 6 failures out of 13 consoles. I don't believe that the rate is that high and the sample size is obviously quite small, but even a small sample of consoles should never reach that level of failure. Their failure rates were one of the main reasons I personally didn't pick up a 360. I'm much like the other person in that I simply can't see dropping that kind of money on a system with a failure rate even at the 15% that you suggest.


Other people have slammed you already, but I'll pitch in. A sample size of 13 is ridiculous. We are talking about over 6 million consoles in the country. I also have never had a failure and know of nobody who has. (about four friends with them)

You know what? That doesn't mean anything either. It's a ridiculous sample size to base any assumptions off of.

Again, I said above I could be wrong. I'm not disputing that I could be wrong. I don't think for a second that 1/3 of the consoles MS makes break down, but stranger things have happened and maybe I'm just lucky.

If your opinion is that it's truly that high, that's fine. We'll just agree to disagree. You don't need to throw out 13 unit sample sizes to justify yourself.

[sterlingice]

And Nintendo. Again, like I posted above. It's over. MS and Sony need to worry about each other at this point. Neither will catch the Wii in terms of console sales for the next 2+ years at lease. They have a chance with software, but even that is going to be a difficult road to go down. Developers are going to be spending a ton of time working on titles for the Wii with an install base that strong. It's just reality.

The one thing that has me a little worried about Nintendo on both the console and handheld front is that after early 08, there's not much on the horizon. It's not that it's a big deal since most games aren't announced more than a year in advance and we haven't hit E3 yet. However, I only see one huge franchise on the horizon for either system after Zelda for the DS and the pile of stuff due out in time for Christmas for the Wii and that's Mario Kart which I'm sure is due for the Wii next year.

If they can keep the pressure up, great, they win both platforms no matter what everyone else does. But I think Nintendo jumped out of the gate early this generation, seeing how a slow start hamstrung them on the Gamecube. Unfortunately, I'm worried that's going to leave a gap of games next year.

SI

[CraigSca]

The one thing that has me a little worried about Nintendo on both the console and handheld front is that after early 08, there's not much on the horizon. It's not that it's a big deal since most games aren't announced more than a year in advance and we haven't hit E3 yet. However, I only see one huge franchise on the horizon for either system after Zelda for the DS and the pile of stuff due out in time for Christmas for the Wii and that's Mario Kart which I'm sure is due for the Wii next year.

If they can keep the pressure up, great, they win both platforms no matter what everyone else does. But I think Nintendo jumped out of the gate early this generation, seeing how a slow start hamstrung them on the Gamecube. Unfortunately, I'm worried that's going to leave a gap of games next year.

SI

But don't you think that will change?

I can imagine most developers sat on their hands waiting to see what console would win -- since it seems like Nintendo won this round, I'm sure the outlook is going to change drastically.

[Fidatelo]

I've been outspoken about my disdain for the PS3, and my love for the Wii. I also believe I've said that the 360 is awesome (although I don't own one), but if not, I'll say it now: 360 is awesome.

That said, I have 4 friends with 360's, and 3 have had to get replacements. I would believe pretty much any number at this point, 30% is crazy high but possible.

That said, in a couple of years I could easily see myself buying a 360, even if this issue never is resolved. Its just a damn good system.

[Atocep]

That said, in a couple of years I could easily see myself buying a 360, even if this issue never is resolved. Its just a damn good system.

This is what I was thinking about earlier. Failure rates on the 360 appear to be unacceptably high, yet it still outsells the PS3 rather easily. Exacly what does this say about the PS3 as a system?

In the past I've been an impulse buyer when it came to console systems. Preordered both the PS2 and the XBox after walking into a store intending to pick up a PC game. I picked up a Wii on impulse this time around and I've strongly considered a 360 several times. Not one time has the thought of buying a PS3 entered my mind.

[MJ4H]

I think the future of the Wii will be similar to the recent past and present of the DS. There was a long absence of games for DS before someone finally figured out how to really use the new control systems in a creative and interesting way (Meteos). Then, bam. The floodgates opened. I expect similar things for the Wii. There is an obvious series of expected hits coming, but hopefully there will be the one or two surprises that really nails how to take advantage of the hardware, and then it is a whole new ballgame.

[Arles]

When Halo 3 comes out, unless the 360 catches on fire and starts attacking the gamer, those consoles will move like hotcakes (literally).

On a more serious note, I wonder if there's some "guidelines" to avoiding this issue on the 360. My friends and I that have one haven't had any issues, but we are all "short burst" players. Ie, a couple hours 2-3 times a week at most. I wonder if there were some guidelines for the people that play it a ton, maybe it could be avoided. Now, I don't have much of a sample size so take this with a ton of salt, but I wonder if there's some useage point where this behavior increases. Maybe the 8-10 guys I know were all lucky like me, or maybe we just don't play it enough to have this occur.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

When Halo 3 comes out, unless the 360 catches on fire and starts attacking the gamer, those consoles will move like hotcakes (literally).

On a more serious note, I wonder if there's some "guidelines" to avoiding this issue on the 360. My friends and I that have one haven't had any issues, but we are all "short burst" players. Ie, a couple hours 2-3 times a week at most. I wonder if there were some guidelines for the people that play it a ton, maybe it could be avoided. Now, I don't have much of a sample size so take this with a ton of salt, but I wonder if there's some useage point where this behavior increases. Maybe the 8-10 guys I know were all lucky like me, or maybe we just don't play it enough to have this occur.

I think longer gaming times could definitely increase the chances of failure. Any time a console's fan works as hard as the 360, heat is a major concern. If you play for longer periods of time, that consistent heating has to be a problem at some point. With that said, the designer of the system has to take into consideration that there are going to be people that play systems for longer periods of time and design it to handle that level of gameplay. I run my PS3 24/7 and have had no issues at all. I run the Folding@home program on it.