Palestinian War - Hamas vs Fatah

[Edward64]

Not to sound callous, but I am glad this is happening and hope it continues till there is a clear victor.


It is time for one group to manage/negotiate without the other to hinder it.

The US can sit back. The Egyptians seem to be the main broker right now, their problem.

Israel can sit back with a 'I told you so' on the difficulty in negotiating with a non-united opposition.

Innocent Palestinians civilians can sit back, the collateral damage seems to be minimal. The 2 factions seem to be killing each other only ... the way it should be.


Here's hoping for a clear victor and maybe real, tough negotiations can begin between the Palestinians and Israel.

[Anthony]

those dirty humans need to kill each other off. period. i'm tired of hearing about this conflict. it's unbelievable that people would prefer to live their lives like this. what a sub-class of humans.

[st.cronin]

No idea who is going to win, or who I want to win, but this thread reminds me: Recently there were a number of pieces talking about "40 years since the 6 day war," and one of the assertions made was that the war marked the "end of pan-Arabic nationalism." I believe that to be true, but what I don't understand is why.

[Flasch186]

in before the lock

[Qwikshot]

Until we remove the political correctness that is being attached to our wars; we'll consistently fall short of our goals in acheiving victory.

This conflict will continue to go on and on, and when the world begins to become desentsitized to it, some faction will do something horrific to put it back in the spotlight (i.e. terrorist attack on Israel, Europe, U.S.) for the sake of bringing the Palestinian factions together again (they just tried this but Israel didn't seem to bite as much). Then whomever is attacked will intervene and then the groups will unite against the "infidels".

Rinse and repeat.

I just hope that one day we'll have an alernative source of energy or better more competant foreign policy to force the issue.

[sachmo71]

I just hope that one day we'll have an alernative source of energy or better more competant foreign policy to force the issue.

That isn't really going to help the Palestinians, is it? If the US leaves the Middle East, they're still going to fight each other.

[MrBigglesworth]

Until we remove the political correctness that is being attached to our wars; we'll consistently fall short of our goals in acheiving victory.
We aren't at war with Palestine. And what do you mean by political correctness?

[KeyserSoze]

Hamas. The people who has nothing, has nothing to lose. And the extremist can make wonders with them.

I don't want to talk who is guilty or who is not. But if "someone" don't give a fair chance to the Palestinians to have dignity in his lives, they will be radicals.

At least my two cents.

[Qwikshot]

That isn't really going to help the Palestinians, is it? If the US leaves the Middle East, they're still going to fight each other.


Where do you guys think they get the money to get the weapons, donatations from their oil rich Arab brothers. When oil is a minor resource (if it ever is), those nations will be more involved in their own affairs. The Palestinians were simply an excuse to cause conflict with Israel mainly.

[Qwikshot]

We aren't at war with Palestine. And what do you mean by political correctness?

Yes I know we aren't at war with Palestine, but in a way the U.S. support for Israel makes us at war with Palestine.

[MrBigglesworth]

Yes I know we aren't at war with Palestine, but in a way the U.S. support for Israel makes us at war with Palestine.
OK, in our de facto war against Palestine, how is PCness killing the war effort?

[moriarty]

No idea who is going to win, or who I want to win, but this thread reminds me: Recently there were a number of pieces talking about "40 years since the 6 day war," and one of the assertions made was that the war marked the "end of pan-Arabic nationalism." I believe that to be true, but what I don't understand is why.

I don't know the exact quote, but you have to understand the backdrop leading up to the 6 day war. Basically in vastly simple terms, there was an Arab council back then that dealt with 'Arab' issues including the Israel problem. One of the goals was to unite against Israel (I dont' know if they had a stated offensive attack goal, but they were to be militarily united).

In a nutshell, Syria started a bunch of stuff with Israel and escalated the war of words. Nasser, who was the popular Egyptian leader at the time, and so called leader of the pan-Arab movement, started to feel pressure b/c Sryia said they werent' backing Syria aka their Arab brothers up. So to appease his people, he threw out the UN peacekeepers who separated the Egyptian / Israel border and threatened war. Egypt also closed the straits vital to Israeli shipping. Israel took this as an invasion preparation (although many accounts say Nasser knew his army wasn't ready for war) and started the offensive (although some still dispute they started it) by suprise attacking and destroying Egypt's airforce, and ultimately most of their army.

This brought into the conflict the Jordan army whose king was trying to appease his people and the perception of the Arab nationalism. The Syrians who started the crap remained fairly silent, just border shelling the Israli's. Iraq and other Arab countries who supposedly were in this anti-Israel pact did little beyond sending a few troops/arms (I'm not sure if Saudi Arabia did anything at all).

So due to the lack of coordination and support by fellow Arab countries (in addition to an ill conceived plan and bad leadership) ... Egypt got booted to back to the Suez canal. Jordan lost the west bank, and Syria was beaten back as well.

After that, the "Arab brotherhood" / nationality was never quite the same as the war proved that they really couldn't trust one another when it mattered. Many people also believe this loss of nationality lead to the increased popularty of radical Islamists and some of our (US) current problems.

That's a very gross simplification, so anyone feel free to correct/enlighten.

[BishopMVP]

Hamas. The people who has nothing, has nothing to lose. And the extremist can make wonders with them.Fatah aren't exactly innocent technocrats. You've got the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade as an offshoot, and they seem to be just as violent/radical as any part of Hamas.

[sachmo71]

Where do you guys think they get the money to get the weapons, donatations from their oil rich Arab brothers. When oil is a minor resource (if it ever is), those nations will be more involved in their own affairs. The Palestinians were simply an excuse to cause conflict with Israel mainly.

Ok, I can see that angle. My doubts come from the fact that the Palestinians will get money for weapons from everyone who wants to see Israel perish from this earth, which is not limited to oil producing countries. Guns are cheap.

[-Mojo Jojo-]

Decision: Hamas with a knockout (http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9332932). More here (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/13/world/main2921799.shtml).

[Edward64]

Well, I guess Hamas wins Gaza.

http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20070615-092502-8037r

"Hamastan is Here" screamed the top-selling Yedioth Ahronoth, while a headline on an editorial in the rival Ma'ariv declared "Welcome to Hell."

It should get interesting next time there is a Hamas bombing/attack in Israel, especially with Barak as Defense minister now.

[PSUColonel]

It's time for Israel (backed by the U.S.) to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities.

[Swaggs]

It's time for Israel (backed by the U.S.) to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities.

And then what do we do when Iran sends a few 100-thousand troops into Iraq?

[JPhillips]

Duh, we win. Don't you know there's no plan besides victory?

[PSUColonel]

well, at least it takes away their ability to potentially use nukes on either Israel, or Iraq (us).

[Izulde]

Not that this has anything to do with anything, but I wrote a paper a few years ago on who would succeed Arafat as the leader of the Palestinians... and on the very day I handed it in, the leader of Hamas got killed.

I asked the prof, "Do you want me to rewrite it in light of today's developments?"

She said, "Nope. I'll just keep in mind that you couldn't know he wasn't going to die today."

Got an A on it too.

[Dutch]

Insurgents sure do look a lot like terrorists. But I digress.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070615/capt.ebccfa25aa3c43808eac51405317150e.mideast_israel_palestinians__jrl176.jpg?x=380&y=261&sig=4mURjrQxPx6JEf86yzBG_w--
"Yah! We win! But, uh...I'll just wear my insurgent mask anyways in case somebody takes my picture. Whew!"

[EagleFan]

We aren't at war with Palestine

There needs to be a Palestine to be at war with it.

[Dutch]

Ack, sorry, apparently that was a picture of the insurgents that lost the battle.

Here are the winning insurgents.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070615/capt.1ce4e2e80bd449e5b55a737656a35627.mideast_israel_palestinians_hamas_jrl160.jpg?x=380&y=246&sig=H7VKd.lwdF5KJHXEGvIAlQ--
Looks like somebody's got a case of the Mondays.

[Flasch186]

There needs to be a Palestine to be at war with it.

agreed.

First give them their own state, Israel recognizes it along with the US. Then warns that if attacked Israel would declare war. Inevitably there would be 3 strikes and then Israel would attack, and rightfully so IMO

[stevew]

Shit, I should have laid down more on Hamas with the odds they were getting, and teased the over/under on the amount of street executions. There was no way Fatah was ever going to cover the spread.

[JPhillips]

I blame Lebron for Fateh's loss.

[st.cronin]

I blame Lebron for Fateh's loss.

I blame the Jews. Uh... that doesn't work, never mind.

[Bubba Wheels]

Yes I know we aren't at war with Palestine, but in a way the U.S. support for Israel makes us at war with Palestine.

:rolleyes:

[stevew]

I blame Lebron for Fateh's loss.

Typical choke under pressure, I tell yah. Hamas has primed veterans who each know their role well, and are able to play a nice defense. Vanilla as hell, but they get the job done. The Big Fundamental is a great leader for their squad.


And if all the guys are wearing black masks, who knows who to shoot at?

[MrBigglesworth]

Insurgents sure do look a lot like terrorists.
I'm starting to think that everyone over there is brown.

[sachmo71]

I'm starting to think that everyone over there is brown.

Are they made of beans?