Werewolf XLVI Willy Wonka the game thread!!!! BAD GUYS WIN!!

[Lathum]

The day you have been waiting for is here. You have been on pins and needles since you found your golden ticket. You stand outside the giant factory in awe of it's size. Suddenly a door opens and a short man with a cane hobbles out. He clears his throat and speaks loudly and clearly, " Millions, maybe billions of people have wanted this oppritunity and you 15 stand here in front of me. You will spend alot of time in this factory over the next few days and you will see much. There are secrets my main competetor Slugworth would kill for. You have all been sworn to secrecy, however I fear there may be spies among you, maybe even slugworth himself.

There is only one way to find the spies

Each day one of you will be voted off by the others, I fear for your safety at night like I said, my competetors would kill for these secrets. If you succeede in removing all the spies from the factory those remaining will win rewards beyond their imaginations. Should you fail the spies will overrun the factory and all my boss has worked for will be lost.

Don't look so surprised, you didn't think I was Willy Wonka, did you? Look to aroud. One of you is willy wonka. Now enter the factory.

Good Luck.


Rules-
Each day players vote for one person to be removed from the factory, the player with the most votes is branded a spy and removed from the factory. .

Voting deadline is 10:30 PM EST.

All night actions are due by 8:00 AM EST.

Ties will be detirmined by an unknown method

Quoting of PM's is forbidden

Roles will be revealed upon players death/ removal from factory.

Spies must obtain a 1:1 ratio for victory

rules are subject to change in case I overlooked something.

Roles:

Willy Wonka/ Seer- once per night he scans a player to see if they are a spy
oompa loompa lord/ bodyguard- once per night they can guard another player, they can't
guard the same player 2 nights in a row.
Slugworth/ Brutal wolf- if lynched can take another player with him
slugworth sympathizer- if attacked at night converted
Fast talker/ duke- can change the outcome of a lynch vote to their choice
Golden Ticket Winner/ villager

[Lathum]

1. Hoopsguy- killed night 2- villager
2. Barkeep- lynched day 4- villager
3. St. Cronin- killed day 3 by slugworth- willy wonka
4. Saldana- lynched day 3- slugworth
5. Passacaglia
6. Daddytorgo
7. AlanT
8. Ardent ( I think that was an in)- killed night 1- villegar
9. ChiefRum- lynched day 1- villager
10. Swaggs- killed night 3- villager
11. Mr. Wednesday
12. NTNDeacon- lynched day 2- villager
13. Lonestargirl
14. bulletsponge
15. RenderR

[st.cronin]

Has the game started? Is there a deadline?

[hoopsguy]

Golden Ticket Winner/ villager

I'm one of these people.

Looking forward to playing this one after the extended break.

[Poli]

Not sure how I won a ticket. I can't remember the last time I had a chocolate bar. :)

[Passacaglia]

I won mine buying a box of everlasting Gobstoppers.

[Barkeep49]

Daddy won me my ticket. Fortunately I'm just an innocent little boy who is a member of the villager.

[Alan T]

I'm no spy, just going along for the tour.

[Chief Rum]

I'm working all day today as usual, so this is a pop in, pop out vote.

I am a common villager.

VOTE LONESTARGIRL

No reason at all. She's almost certainly good, so anyone trying to bandwagon on top of my vote without good reason should be viewed suspiciously.

See you all tonight.

[ntndeacon]

I have framed my golden ticket. It will look very cool next to the tv. That way I can see both at the same time. To bad the ticket can't be IN the tv. Television rules!

[Barkeep49]

I'm working all day today as usual, so this is a pop in, pop out vote.

I am a common villager.

VOTE LONESTARGIRL

No reason at all. She's almost certainly good, so anyone trying to bandwagon on top of my vote without good reason should be viewed suspiciously.

See you all tonight.
Picking someone who often goes out first? Seems cruel. I don't like cruel.

Vote Chief Rum

[DaddyTorgo]

checking in. would have checked in earlier but wasn't in the mood last night TBH. should be around on-and-off during the day today.

[Passacaglia]

So are these references to characters from the movie reveals, or just color?

[Lathum]

Day one began with the first post, deadline in 10:30 PM

[RendeR]

Color me golden baby, that entire case of chocolate bars tasted SOooooGOOoooooooooood....


*thud*

[Passacaglia]

deadline is Eastern time?

[Passacaglia]

Never mind, saw it in the first post.

[hoopsguy]

I believe it has been 25 years since I read this book - haven't seen a movie. So while I vaguely recognize some of these references I'm going to probably need some help if people are being subtle with reveals here as Passacaglia suggested.

I'm hoping that this is just people providing some flavor to their gaming, rather than giving away potentially meaningful info at this point. It hasn't been that long since the last game, right? right?

[Swaggs]

Checking in.

Very pleased to have won a goldent ticket!

[Lathum]

I'm hoping that this is just people providing some flavor to their gaming, rather than giving away potentially meaningful info at this point. It hasn't been that long since the last game, right? right?

Except for the charectures listed in the rules/ roles anything is extra flavor, so for example there is no Mike TV, etc...

[Passacaglia]

Except for the charectures listed in the rules/ roles anything is extra flavor, so for example there is no Mike TV, etc...

Thanks. Sorry I made a big deal out of some minor comments. :)

[bulletsponge]

checking in, just a normal ticket winner. nothing special about me http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/animals/animal0044.gif

[DaddyTorgo]

okay. was wondering about that reveal-ish stuff myself...with TV and all, but didn't to ask and come off like a fishing wolf when in reality i'm just a villegar.

(subtle dig at the gm intended, but in good fun)

[ntndeacon]

Yea iwas just adding color with my tv comments. I had assumed those were the only characters so when Isaw something that looked like a Veruca Falk (I think that is right )reference i decided to do a Mike TV reference. :)

[Mr. Wednesday]

I got my Golden Ticket on e-bay. :D

(ntn, the character name is Veruca Salt.)

[hoopsguy]

Yea iwas just adding color with my tv comments. I had assumed those were the only characters so when Isaw something that looked like a Veruca Falk (I think that is right )reference i decided to do a Mike TV reference. :)

This is the one Willy Wonka character I remember, as there is a Chicago based band with this name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veruca_Salt

[LoneStarGirl]

I am excited about playing in a werewolf game again! Disappointed I am the first person to get a vote though, but I won't seek revenge on Chief just yet

[hoopsguy]

I'm excited to be visiting the werewolf forum and see the following:

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (4 members and 0 guests)

[Passacaglia]

Weird, I didn't know Veruca Salt was Chicago-based. But I guess I was living in Michigan when I first heard of them.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, have a couple of rules questions:

1. Does a sympathizer know that they are a sympathizer?
2. Is there only the one wolf to start the game, or is there a generic wolf role that is not listed in Post #1?

Just trying to figure out the ratio for this game - if there is a single wolf then we could potentially end it on Day 1. If not, then I'm guessing there are a larger number of sympathizers out there.

[saldana]

another villegar checking in with his golden ticket


how do we play this game again?

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, can you update Post #1 to include a list of players for this game?

[Lathum]

[QUOTE=hoopsguy;1483098]

1. Does a sympathizer know that they are a sympathizer?
2. Is there only the one wolf to start the game, or is there a generic wolf role that is not listed in Post #1?

QUOTE]

1. Can't say
2. More then 1

[Lathum]

Lathum, can you update Post #1 to include a list of players for this game?

done

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, have a couple of rules questions:

1. Does a sympathizer know that they are a sympathizer?
2. Is there only the one wolf to start the game, or is there a generic wolf role that is not listed in Post #1?

Just trying to figure out the ratio for this game - if there is a single wolf then we could potentially end it on Day 1. If not, then I'm guessing there are a larger number of sympathizers out there.

[quote]

1. Can't say
2. More then 1

OK, since there is more than one starting wolf then I'm guessing there is a small (likely 1) group of sympathizers who don't know they are sympathetic. No in-game reasons for having that belief, just playing off of what I consider to be the most likely ruleset. And, given the moderator is not Cronin, I think there is a reasonable chance that I'm right :)

If the sympathizers knew they were sympathetic then I would start putting some energy into finding people who are subtly suggesting "night kill me!!!" in their posts. But that feels like wasted effort. So back to figuring out where my near-random Day 1 vote goes.

[DaddyTorgo]

oooh. multiple people in the thread alert!!

sorry i've been quieter than normal all day. had a lot on my plate here @ the office. And FYI...I likely won't be online until ~7-something PM EST because apparently it's been decided that i'm fat and so i have to walk home from the train, thus doubling the time my commute takes at night (GRRRR).

[ntndeacon]

I first thought it was Salt instead of Falk for her last name but talked myself out of it.

[bulletsponge]

ok just reading up. hmm nobody is dead yet

[bulletsponge]

ok im goina make my vote based on my "Little Red Riding Hood" Theory that states wolves go after the chicks first

Vote Chief Rum

[DaddyTorgo]

ok im goina make my vote based on my "Little Red Riding Hood" Theory that states wolves go after the chicks first

Vote Chief Rum

I like that theory.

VOTE SALDANA :D

[ntndeacon]

for no real reason..ie first day gotta vote for someone vote.

Vote Passacaglia

[hoopsguy]

ok im goina make my vote based on my "Little Red Riding Hood" Theory that states wolves go after the chicks first

Vote Chief Rum

I like that theory.

VOTE SALDANA :D

DaddyTorgo, if I read this correctly then you are a wolf going after a chick on Day 1?

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[RendeR]

Eeeny




Meeeny






Miney.....






VOTE DADDYTORGO

[Barkeep49]

Wow. It's very tempting to go to DT after he "outed" himself.

[Passacaglia]

I assume that DT was just joking?

[saldana]

Wow. It's very tempting to go to DT after he "outed" himself.

obviously you dont know the running gag about me being a chic

[saldana]

dola, i am tempted to vote DT just for bringing up said joke

[saldana]

just for the sake of the fact that no one ever does this on day one

vote hoopsguy

[Passacaglia]

obviously you dont know the running gag about me being a chic

I think he does. The idea is that since you're a chick, and he's voting for you, that means he's a wolf.

[saldana]

I think he does. The idea is that since you're a chick, and he's voting for you, that means he's a wolf.

which would be true if i were actually a chick:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[bulletsponge]

which would be true if i were actually a chick:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


must be that time of the month :rolleyes:

[Passacaglia]

I'm gonna vote for st.cronin, since he said i was the funniest guy on the board. Who's laughing now, st.cronin?!!?!?!

VOTE ST.CRONIN

[Swaggs]

I'm heading out to have dinner and drinks with my buddy before he moves away, so I'll randomly vote.

Vote Alan T

[saldana]

anyone got a count

[Poli]

VOTE SALDANA

I'm going to vote....saldana. Just to do it.

[Poli]

Off to softball...later fellas.

[saldana]

lonestargirl (1)- chief rum
chief rum (1)- barkeep, bulletsponge
saldana (2)- daddytorgo, ardent
passacaglia (1)- ntndeacon
daddytorgo (2)- hoopsguy, render
hoopsguy (1)- saldana
st cronin (1)- passacaglia
alant (1)- swaggs

[st.cronin]

Vote Chief Rum

I have never read the book, nor seen the movie, so none of this really makes any sense to me. This vote is more or less at random.

[saldana]

lonestargirl (1)- chief rum
chief rum (3)- barkeep, bulletsponge, st cronin
saldana (2)- daddytorgo, ardent
passacaglia (1)- ntndeacon
daddytorgo (2)- hoopsguy, render
hoopsguy (1)- saldana
st cronin (1)- passacaglia
alant (1)- swaggs

updated to fix my math and cronins vote

[DaddyTorgo]

nah. I just didn't read CR's "theory" well enough and I was like "hey...i can bring up the sal is a chick joke and get a cheap laugh"

i'm not a wolf, alright? I just wanted to tweak sal a little and see if I could get some kind of response that'd tell us something.

[LoneStarGirl]

I guess I am going to go ahead and vote chief rum because he voted for me. I don't have any reads or feelings on anybody yet. I have a feeling it is going to take me a couple of days to get back in werewolf mode, so bear with me!

vote cheif rum

[Alan T]

Well its a run on Chief Rum it appears. Looks like no matter who I vote for, it won't change much. I'll vote for either DaddyTorgo or Saldana in order to keep things close.

[Barkeep49]

Well it seems to me that we're between CR and DT. I am, at this point, leaning towards switching my vote though.

[DaddyTorgo]

*shrug* go ahead. Vote for me. At least we'll just be losing a plain golden-ticket holder and nothing special.

That'll teach me to try to make jokes in WW. The point of the whole thing wasn't "i'm a wolf so i'm going to vote for sal cuz he's a girl." the point was "CR talked about voting for girls...sal's a girl i'm going to vote for her."

(and yes I know sal's a guy. That's where the joke comes in).

[Lathum]

current vote count

lonestargirl (1)- chief rum
chief rum (4)- barkeep, bulletsponge, st cronin, lonestargirl
saldana (2)- daddytorgo, ardent
passacaglia (1)- ntndeacon
daddytorgo (2)- hoopsguy, render
hoopsguy (1)- saldana
st cronin (1)- passacaglia
alant (1)- swaggs

[Lathum]

not voted- AlanT, Mr Wednesday

[Alan T]

I want to keep it close. Based on what Barkeep says, he seems to think its only DT and Chief, not sure why he is ruling out Saldana , so I'll go the other direction.

Vote Saldana

[Lathum]

current vote count

lonestargirl (1)- chief rum
chief rum (4)- barkeep, bulletsponge, st cronin, lonestargirl
saldana (3)- daddytorgo, ardent, AlanT
passacaglia (1)- ntndeacon
daddytorgo (2)- hoopsguy, render
hoopsguy (1)- saldana
st cronin (1)- passacaglia
alant (1)- swaggs

not voted Mr. Wednesday

[Passacaglia]

*shrug* go ahead. Vote for me. At least we'll just be losing a plain golden-ticket holder and nothing special.

That'll teach me to try to make jokes in WW. The point of the whole thing wasn't "i'm a wolf so i'm going to vote for sal cuz he's a girl." the point was "CR talked about voting for girls...sal's a girl i'm going to vote for her."

(and yes I know sal's a guy. That's where the joke comes in).

Yeah. Weird joke, but I usually give slack to jokers, since I'm one myself. Especially on Day 1.

[hoopsguy]

FWIW, I don't think there is much of a chance that DaddyTorgo is a wolf based on his play/joke. But I was interested in seeing if there was movement emerging behind me on the vote. Seemed like as good of a play as anything on Day 1.

I have no strong feelings at all about either of the two leading candidates, so I'll defer on voting for either of them for the moment. I would probably be willing to move my vote away from DT if I saw him endangered at this point.

With that, time to sit back and watch the last few minutes before deadline elapse.

[Lathum]

deadline

[Lathum]

you all gather in the main candy room, a collection of sweets like no other with a milk chocolate river running through it.

The vote is cast and it is decided chief rum is a spy. You point the finger at him and suddenly a door materilizes from seemingly solid wall. A number of strange orange creatures shuffle out.

As if that wasn't odd enough they surround Chiefrum and begin singing

"oompa loompa doppie de do
I've got another puzzle for you
what do you get when you vote someone out
they are a innocent as a trout
your numbers are now one weaker see
if you are wise you'll listen to me
try tommorow getting it right
or you may be killed at night
I'de sleep with one eye open if I was you
like the oopma loompa doppie de do"

with that they shuffle ChiefRum away. HE was just a boy with a dream.

Night one has begun.


final vote count

lonestargirl (1)- chief rum
chief rum (4)- barkeep, bulletsponge, st cronin, lonestargirl
saldana (3)- daddytorgo, ardent, AlanT
passacaglia (1)- ntndeacon
daddytorgo (2)- hoopsguy, render
hoopsguy (1)- saldana
st cronin (1)- passacaglia
alant (1)- swaggs

not voted Mr. Wednesday

[saldana]

best. werewolf. writeup. ever.

LOL

[saldana]

dola, except for the fact that we tossed a villager.

[DaddyTorgo]

that's hilarious lathum.

but dammit.

now I see why I couldn't be a ooompa loompa.

[LoneStarGirl]

any word from Mr. Wednesday and why he didn't vote?

[Swaggs]

I like the 10:30 PM EST deadline.

I went out tonight and couldn't really get in on much discussion (not that there would have been much on the first day), but living on the East Coast, I like having that deadline a bit later than 9:00 PM EST.

[bulletsponge]

LOL great write up. i hope you have a new one for each night.

Sorry Daddy Torgo.... ok iom lying, no im not sorry :P

[Mr. Wednesday]

I'm very sorry about missing the vote. I had intended to get in and cast a vote around 7-ish, but I forgot. One of my friends had a birthday today, so a bunch of us went out to eat and then out for drinks afterwards, and I remembered ca. 11 o'clock that I had forgotten to get online and vote. :(

If it's any consolation, I'm fairly certain I would have stayed away from the CR vs. saldana face-off, so I don't think my absence changed the outcome of the vote.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, I literally just got back, having left around 7:30 and last checked in here around 5.

[Chief Rum]

I'm quite happy to be the victim of such a great writeup. :)

It's too bad I am already out, though, in a long-awaited game. Oh well...

Good luck, everyone!

[Lathum]

You all awake in the morning snd make your way downstairs for a breakfast of hot chocolate and well, cold chocolate.

You notice one of you is missing, you make your way to ardents room to find a gruesome scene. Someone has sucked on the end of a candy cane until it is sharp then thrust it into ardents neck!!

Aredent was an ordinary golden ticket winner.

day 2 has begun, deadline 10:30 PM EST

[Passacaglia]

death by candy cane? scrumptious. Sorry, ardent.

[st.cronin]

VOTE SALDANA

Its an exercise in logic, fellows.

[Poli]

I'm okay with it, I was contemplating dropping out after the news yesterday.

Thanks for the game.

[Poli]

I sure hope I ate my fill of chocolate last night.

[Passacaglia]

VOTE SALDANA

Its an exercise in logic, fellows.

Can I have another clue to this logic puzzle?

[hoopsguy]

final vote count

lonestargirl (1)- chief rum
chief rum (4)- barkeep, bulletsponge, st cronin, lonestargirl
saldana (3)- daddytorgo, ardent, AlanT
passacaglia (1)- ntndeacon
daddytorgo (2)- hoopsguy, render
hoopsguy (1)- saldana
st cronin (1)- passacaglia
alant (1)- swaggs

not voted Mr. Wednesday



First, as stated by others, very amusing Day 1 writeup.

OK, Cronin's position appears to be that Rum was good, so the next vote getter is more likely to be bad. But I don't recall a late run on Cronin to save Saldana. In fact, I believe it was Rum and DT that were closest in the vote with Saldana pick up a couple of late votes.

Cronin, am I correctly following your logic in casting the vote? Or are there other details that I'm missing here?

[Passacaglia]

First, as stated by others, very amusing Day 1 writeup.

OK, Cronin's position appears to be that Rum was good, so the next vote getter is more likely to be bad. But I don't recall a late run on Cronin to save Saldana. In fact, I believe it was Rum and DT that were closest in the vote with Saldana pick up a couple of late votes.

Cronin, am I correctly following your logic in casting the vote? Or are there other details that I'm missing here?

Do you mean that you don't remember a late run on CR to save saldana?

[st.cronin]

That's pretty much it, hoops. Saldana got the second most votes on a close day 1 vote. Until the seer reveals, he's always going to be something of a suspect. Lets find out now whether he's good or not, hmmm? Otherwise we're just leaving ourselves open to manipulation down the road.

Note: When I draw the seer role, I normally scan players with LOW vote totals.

[Passacaglia]

lonestargirl (1)- chief rum
chief rum (1)- barkeep, bulletsponge
saldana (2)- daddytorgo, ardent
passacaglia (1)- ntndeacon
daddytorgo (2)- hoopsguy, render
hoopsguy (1)- saldana
st cronin (1)- passacaglia
alant (1)- swaggs

Here's the vote count from 6:40 Central time. You've got CR, DT, and saldana tied at 2. The next two votes were for CR. However, if you look at it as a run on CR to save saldana, the guy who started that run was...... st.cronin!

[bulletsponge]

ok based soley on votes im suspect of Swaggs, Pass, saldana, hoops, render, and ntndeacon

a wolf would have been wary to vote for a villager who would get killed the first day

[st.cronin]

Here's the vote count from 6:40 Central time. You've got CR, DT, and saldana tied at 2. The next two votes were for CR. However, if you look at it as a run on CR to save saldana, the guy who started that run was...... st.cronin!

Ironic, isn't it. Yesterday I had nothing to go on, and took a wild guess. At the time I didn't even know what the vote was.

[Passacaglia]

I want to keep it close. Based on what Barkeep says, he seems to think its only DT and Chief, not sure why he is ruling out Saldana , so I'll go the other direction.

Vote Saldana

Here's the vote that made saldana closer to CR, by a 4-3 tally. It was done about a half hour before the deadline, when there really wasn't much action going on. I really think that by LSG's vote with a little more than an hour to deadline, CR's fate was sealed.

[Passacaglia]

Ironic, isn't it. Yesterday I had nothing to go on, and took a wild guess. At the time I didn't even know what the vote was.

You didn't? Even though saldana posted a vote count two minutes before you voted?

[st.cronin]

You didn't? Even though saldana posted a vote count two minutes before you voted?

That vote count was posted AFTER I clicked on the thread, but before I posted. I had been up on my roof hanging shingles, and I opened the thread for basically the first time that day, spent a few minutes reading the thread, and made a more or less random vote.

By all means, vote for me if you think I'm being suspicious. My cards are on the table.

[saldana]

That vote count was posted AFTER I clicked on the thread, but before I posted. I had been up on my roof hanging shingles, and I opened the thread for basically the first time that day, spent a few minutes reading the thread, and made a more or less random vote.

By all means, vote for me if you think I'm being suspicious. My cards are on the table.


i do think you are being suspicious.

i also think your logic is flawed...how does me getting 2 random votes equate to it being logical that i am a wolf (not an admission...just trying to step through cronin's logic...i am a plain golden ticket holder)

also, look at who voted for me yesterday...one of them was Ardent...If i were a wolf, the last people i would ever night kill would be the people that voted for me the day before

finally, if you want to look at something as suspicious, i dont think anyone needs to look further than alan, who cast a late vote for me to bring things closer together, i can only assume in hopes of a tie, which we all know only favors the wolves.

i really dont get your thinking here St C., and you have jumped up on my radar, but still not higher than alan

vote alant

[Passacaglia]

That vote count was posted AFTER I clicked on the thread, but before I posted. I had been up on my roof hanging shingles, and I opened the thread for basically the first time that day, spent a few minutes reading the thread, and made a more or less random vote.

By all means, vote for me if you think I'm being suspicious. My cards are on the table.

I never said I was suspicious of you -- no need to get defensive (or put words in my mouth). However, I don't think the reasoning behind saldana is very solid. Day 1 votes don't really mean much, so I wouldn't really be looking at saldana to do some revenge kill on AE because of it. I think it's way too obvious for a wolf play.

[Passacaglia]

Sorry, I misread you -- I thought you said vote for you if I was suspicious of you. Whoops.

[Alan T]

i do think you are being suspicious.

i also think your logic is flawed...how does me getting 2 random votes equate to it being logical that i am a wolf (not an admission...just trying to step through cronin's logic...i am a plain golden ticket holder)

also, look at who voted for me yesterday...one of them was Ardent...If i were a wolf, the last people i would ever night kill would be the people that voted for me the day before

finally, if you want to look at something as suspicious, i dont think anyone needs to look further than alan, who cast a late vote for me to bring things closer together, i can only assume in hopes of a tie, which we all know only favors the wolves.

i really dont get your thinking here St C., and you have jumped up on my radar, but still not higher than alan

vote alant


Perhaps its been because of the long break between games, but most people know that I strongly protest ties in games. I at no point brought us close to a tie.

Your point seems to suggest you would prefer a run away vote than a close one that we might use to try to get information about voting patterns. I also am against that, as we don't learn anything from a run away vote.

I made a vote on one of the leading candidates, that was not a throw away, that did not tie things up and was relevant to what the current discussion was at the time.

Your vote on me seems clearly to be nothing more than an attempt at distraction away from something else.

[Passacaglia]

Sorry, I misread you -- I thought you said vote for you if I was suspicious of you. Whoops.

Or maybe I thought you meant acting suspiciously. Man, this is making me tired.

[Passacaglia]

Perhaps its been because of the long break between games, but most people know that I strongly protest ties in games. I at no point brought us close to a tie.

Your point seems to suggest you would prefer a run away vote than a close one that we might use to try to get information about voting patterns. I also am against that, as we don't learn anything from a run away vote.

I made a vote on one of the leading candidates, that was not a throw away, that did not tie things up and was relevant to what the current discussion was at the time.

Your vote on me seems clearly to be nothing more than an attempt at distraction away from something else.

How can you defend that you did not bring us closer to a tie? The vote was 4-2 and you made it 4-3. I just don't get how your vote can be all three things -- on a leading candidate, not forcing a tie, and not a throw away. I agree that it didn't force a tie, but it definitely brought us closer to one, there's no disputing that. And if you weren't worried about a tie forming, I'd have to call the vote a throwaway.

[st.cronin]

Your vote on me seems clearly to be nothing more than an attempt at distraction away from something else.

Yes, it struck me as odd too. If he were really a SIMPLE villegar, wouldn't he most likely fire back at me? Especially given that he thinks I'm suspicious - that assertion, coupled with a vote on Alan, is really inexplicable.

I think its essential that we lynch saldana today - even if he's innocent, the longer he lives, the more confusing our approach will get.

[Alan T]

How can you defend that you did not bring us closer to a tie? The vote was 4-2 and you made it 4-3. I just don't get how your vote can be all three things -- on a leading candidate, not forcing a tie, and not a throw away. I agree that it didn't force a tie, but it definitely brought us closer to one, there's no disputing that. And if you weren't worried about a tie forming, I'd have to call the vote a throwaway.


Well gee.. if you want to get technical with it... anyone who didn't break a tie yesterday brought us closer to a tie with their vote in that case.

My vote was with plenty of time to spare, with an advanced announcement even earlier in the evening of my intentions, with the ability for the 5-6 people who were online and in the thread at the time to make their moves.

The way Saldana framed his accusation to make it sound like I recklessly threw us at the traintrack was pretty misleading. If you don't believe me, go back and read my posts. I never one hid my plan, and went through with what I said.

It probably doesn't matter in the case where Chief was a good guy, but if he had been a bad guy, having the vote close to see who maneuvered to attempt to save him (if anyone would have tried) would have been good to know.

[Passacaglia]

Yes, it struck me as odd too. If he were really a SIMPLE villegar, wouldn't he most likely fire back at me? Especially given that he thinks I'm suspicious - that assertion, coupled with a vote on Alan, is really inexplicable.

I think its essential that we lynch saldana today - even if he's innocent, the longer he lives, the more confusing our approach will get.

Essential? Really? Based on this? I'm not seeing it.

[st.cronin]

Essential? Really? Based on this? I'm not seeing it.

You just go right ahead and vote for somebody else then. :) Heck, vote for me. I welcome the scrutiny.

I have a plan, and I'm sticking to it. If you don't like it, come up with a better plan. I just know as a villegar I hate it when there's somebody hanging around on day 8 who has been the runner up in like 6 of the votes.

[DaddyTorgo]

"the news yesterday" ardent? did i miss something in GD?

[Passacaglia]

Well gee.. if you want to get technical with it... anyone who didn't break a tie yesterday brought us closer to a tie with their vote in that case.

My vote was with plenty of time to spare, with an advanced announcement even earlier in the evening of my intentions, with the ability for the 5-6 people who were online and in the thread at the time to make their moves.

The way Saldana framed his accusation to make it sound like I recklessly threw us at the traintrack was pretty misleading. If you don't believe me, go back and read my posts. I never one hid my plan, and went through with what I said.

It probably doesn't matter in the case where Chief was a good guy, but if he had been a bad guy, having the vote close to see who maneuvered to attempt to save him (if anyone would have tried) would have been good to know.

Well...not really. Any vote that didn't bring the top two vote getters closer together in votes did not bring us closer to a tie.

Your vote was with twenty minutes to spare, and I'll admit to not knowing how many people were online then, so I'll take your word for it.

I do agree that saldana came on too strongly. Your vote did not seem to me like you were TRYING to get a tie. I was just setting facts straight.

A big part of me thinks the case against saldana is way too easy -- the AE vote, and the fact that he didn't attack his accuser (which I see as more of a personality trait than a villegar/wolf thing). A smaller part of me thinks we're being lead toward saldana by cronin and Alan (whose late vote made him look more like a possible lynch candidate than he might have been otherwise -- but then I think even THAT is too easy!

[Alan T]

vote St.Cronin

When I read that ardent was night killed, the first person I actually thought of was actually St.Cronin, then I saw him come out with an arguement against Saldana which I didn't even fully understand. (My guess was that Cronin said it must be saldana as a wolf because Ardent had voted for him the previous day, not because of the saving Saldana by voting for Chief thing that was talked about earlier)

I still mean what I say about Saldana's arguement against me seems to be completely without merit, but I feel the same way or moreso about Cronin's arguement about Saldana.

I might change this as the day goes on depending on where votes fall. Figured I would get Cronin mad at me a bit too.

[Alan T]

Well...not really. Any vote that didn't bring the top two vote getters closer together in votes did not bring us closer to a tie.

Your vote was with twenty minutes to spare, and I'll admit to not knowing how many people were online then, so I'll take your word for it.

I do agree that saldana came on too strongly. Your vote did not seem to me like you were TRYING to get a tie. I was just setting facts straight.

A big part of me thinks the case against saldana is way too easy -- the AE vote, and the fact that he didn't attack his accuser (which I see as more of a personality trait than a villegar/wolf thing). A smaller part of me thinks we're being lead toward saldana by cronin and Alan (whose late vote made him look more like a possible lynch candidate than he might have been otherwise -- but then I think even THAT is too easy!

Huh? Where did I tell people to vote for Saldana. I said his arguement was completely without merit, incorrect and seemed a distractionary tactic. I voted for St.cronin and not Saldana. I don't really see the case for voting Saldana so far today.

Where did you get that I am trying to push people on Saldana at?

[st.cronin]

vote St.Cronin

When I read that ardent was night killed, the first person I actually thought of was actually St.Cronin, then I saw him come out with an arguement against Saldana which I didn't even fully understand. (My guess was that Cronin said it must be saldana as a wolf because Ardent had voted for him the previous day, not because of the saving Saldana by voting for Chief thing that was talked about earlier)

I still mean what I say about Saldana's arguement against me seems to be completely without merit, but I feel the same way or moreso about Cronin's arguement about Saldana.

I might change this as the day goes on depending on where votes fall. Figured I would get Cronin mad at me a bit too.

I'm not mad at all, but I'm pretty baffled. Its always interesting to me when people resist the obvious.

But, anyway, as I said, I welcome the scrutiny. A showdown between me and Saldana could be very revealing for the villega.

[Passacaglia]

Huh? Where did I tell people to vote for Saldana. I said his arguement was completely without merit, incorrect and seemed a distractionary tactic. I voted for St.cronin and not Saldana. I don't really see the case for voting Saldana so far today.

Where did you get that I am trying to push people on Saldana at?

I didn't say you were telling people to vote for saldana. I just said that your vote last night made it look like a closer race (4-3) than it was (4 for CR, 2 for DT, 2 for saldana). And I think that helps support st.cronin's theory.

[st.cronin]

So: I have voted for saldana. Saldana votes for Alan T. And then Alan votes for me.

[Passacaglia]

I'm not mad at all, but I'm pretty baffled. Its always interesting to me when people resist the obvious.

But, anyway, as I said, I welcome the scrutiny. A showdown between me and Saldana could be very revealing for the villega.

I don't have much wolf experience, but it's my understanding that the wolves try to avoid the obvious moves.

[Passacaglia]

So: I have voted for saldana. Saldana votes for Alan T. And then Alan votes for me.

I guess I'm the odd man out?

[st.cronin]

I don't have much wolf experience, but it's my understanding that the wolves try to avoid the obvious moves.

Yeah, the trouble is in agreeing on what an "obvious move" is. Its my opinion here that Alan is most likely the villager trying to hit a home run by guessing pitch and location. Me, as a villegar I like to keep it simple, and stay away from the crazy conspiracy theories.

Would love to get some feedback from some other players.

[Passacaglia]

"the news yesterday" ardent? did i miss something in GD?

See Ardent's FTB answers.

[st.cronin]

So: I have voted for saldana. Saldana votes for Alan T. And then Alan votes for me.

I just realized that what's even odder about this is that both saldana and Alan also asserted that the player they WEREN'T voting for was behaving suspiciously.

[hoopsguy]

OK, Cronin is suggesting that as seer he would scan someone with a low vote total, which tells me that he is not making a seer play at Saldana. So strike that thought from earlier ...

I'm inclined to sit tight for a couple of hours to see if there is anything that Willy W. might bring to the table. Assuming that happens, then I'll try to figure out if the Cronin/Saldana/Alan triangle is the right direction to go with this vote. Right now there is a fair amount of noise around this, but I haven't read anything yet that has been an "Aha!" moment in these posts.

[Swaggs]

I will be picking between Alan T and saldana. I'm not considering st.cronin because I don't think he would have been so assertive and placed the first vote today if he was a wolf.

[DaddyTorgo]

pass...if it makes you feel better I'll vote for you and then you won't be left out. LOL

(THAT'S ANOTHER JOKE PEOPLE)

Seriously though...I don't like voting the obvious all that often, unless there's overwhelming evidence for it. Because all too often the obvious is so obvious that the wolves have seen it and avoided it because it's obvious.

Sure...maybe one time in a dozen a wolf slips through that way, but 11/12 times then I'm winning and not voting for a villager.

I just really skimmed through those last few posts so I have no idea who I'll vote for yet...I want to go read ardent's FTB answers and see what's up, because I get the feeling that's more important than this game.

[Barkeep49]

I will be picking between saldana and cronin. I don't get the negative vibes from Alan T but those two are clearly ready to go at it. I hope it's not a villager versus villager thing, but I don't know. Early inclination is to go for cronin as I absolutely think he'd cast the first vote as a wolf.

[bulletsponge]

hmmm interesting. interesting as in im not sure what to do. this is why i hate being villagers, i cant decide what to do. if i was a wolf i would already know who i was voting for.

but nooooooooo, i have to use my brain to figure out who bad

[Barkeep49]

hmmm interesting. interesting as in im not sure what to do. this is why i hate being villagers, i cant decide what to do. if i was a wolf i would already know who i was voting for.

but nooooooooo, i have to use my brain to figure out who bad
I'm not willing to buy this argument. Studies have shown that having a child makes you dumber so I'm willing to suggest that since you are now a father you are a worse WW player than before. :D

[Barkeep49]

Whoops. Read that as hoops at first. Please disregard.

[LoneStarGirl]

"the news yesterday" ardent? did i miss something in GD?

hmm I was wondering the same thing

[LoneStarGirl]

I am with Alant, I will always go against a tie. But if I have learned nothing in past games it is that you should always throw suspicion on Hoopsguy... he is far too good to let slip under your fingers. So unless anybody has any objections.

vote hoopsguy

[saldana]

I still mean what I say about Saldana's arguement against me seems to be completely without merit, but I feel the same way or moreso about Cronin's arguement about Saldana.

I might change this as the day goes on depending on where votes fall. Figured I would get Cronin mad at me a bit too.

essentially alan, i found your vote for me yesterday to be rather surprising...maybe its my ego running away from me, but i didnt understand why, when posed with a choice between adding one loop to my noose or DT's, you chose me...you and i have been in alot of games together, and just hoops virtually never gets day one votes, I found it intriguing that you were willing to eliminate me on the first day, considering you know very well what I bring to the team.

to me, it seemed like a wolf seizing an opportunity to get rid of a very strong villager, hence my vote today. [/ego trip]

[bulletsponge]

I'm not willing to buy this argument. Studies have shown that having a child makes you dumber so I'm willing to suggest that since you are now a father you are a worse WW player than before. :D

Whoops. Read that as hoops at first. Please disregard.

whew, for a second there i thought your sister told you i knocked her up. she told me she was on the pill :mad:

[bulletsponge]

essentially alan, i found your vote for me yesterday to be rather surprising...maybe its my ego running away from me, but i didnt understand why, when posed with a choice between adding one loop to my noose or DT's, you chose me...you and i have been in alot of games together, and just hoops virtually never gets day one votes, I found it intriguing that you were willing to eliminate me on the first day, considering you know very well what I bring to the team.

to me, it seemed like a wolf seizing an opportunity to get rid of a very strong villager, hence my vote today. [/ego trip]


hmm thats interesting

[Alan T]

essentially alan, i found your vote for me yesterday to be rather surprising...maybe its my ego running away from me, but i didnt understand why, when posed with a choice between adding one loop to my noose or DT's, you chose me...you and i have been in alot of games together, and just hoops virtually never gets day one votes, I found it intriguing that you were willing to eliminate me on the first day, considering you know very well what I bring to the team.

to me, it seemed like a wolf seizing an opportunity to get rid of a very strong villager, hence my vote today. [/ego trip]

Nope, it was actually pretty much what I said last night. I tossed it out earlier what my thoughts were, no sense in a run away on Chief, and you and DT were the only two close by to keep things close. I threw that out to see what people commented in regards to that as there were plenty of people around last night.

Only person who said anything was Barkeep who stated it was a race between DT and Chief Rum (even though Chief was up by 2 votes, and you had just as many votes as DT). Not knowing what barkeep's angle was, I decided to go the other direction from him by voting you instead. I still don't understand why he subtly left you out of the mix there, but I assume it was just oversight on his part. On day 1, without anything to go on however, I had to take everything into consideration.

Its not like I really endangered you any, for you to be lynched, it would have taken someone else to switch votes condemning you as well as whatever the tiebreaker is. Thats why I stated your claim of me pushing for a tie seemingly does not carry much weight at all.

[saldana]

ok alan, i guess i can buy that for now...not entirely sold, but enough to

unvote alant

[hoopsguy]

I'm not willing to buy this argument. Studies have shown that having a child makes you dumber so I'm willing to suggest that since you are now a father you are a worse WW player than before. :D

Whoops. Read that as hoops at first. Please disregard.

This one threw me when I first read it. Was about to extend congratulations to Bullet, and then vote for Barkeep ;)

[Mr. Wednesday]

I think cronin's reasoning is a little bit odd, particularly considering his involvement in the voting yesterday. At the same time, it doesn't seem particularly wolfish to drive the discussion on an early day like this unless something noteworthy happened last night — which there's no indication that such actually happened.

[Barkeep49]

Only person who said anything was Barkeep who stated it was a race between DT and Chief Rum (even though Chief was up by 2 votes, and you had just as many votes as DT). Not knowing what barkeep's angle was, I decided to go the other direction from him by voting you instead. I still don't understand why he subtly left you out of the mix there, but I assume it was just oversight on his part. On day 1, without anything to go on however, I had to take everything into consideration.

I suggest DT because I never gave any serious thought to saldana yesterday. In my mind it was between the two. Though this does strike me that if you were trying to make things close as strange by going in a third direction.

[RendeR]

Good god being a basic Golden Ticket Wielding fat kid is HARD. I'd rather be a seer again like I was the first to games I played....

Having to actually think through all y'all's perforated logic is...well..painful =)

[RendeR]

Hrmmm


Eeeny, meeny, miney, moe....


No one's convinced me otherwise so...


VOTE DADDYTORGO

[bulletsponge]

Hrmmm


Eeeny, meeny, miney, moe....


No one's convinced me otherwise so...


VOTE DADDYTORGO

are you ryming because your an umpa-lumpa?

[Lathum]

so for those of us who are lazy what is the deal with ardent?

[Lathum]

I will probably get home right around the deadline, can someone keep an accurate vote count so the lynch isn't held up if I am running late?

[LoneStarGirl]

so for those of us who are lazy what is the deal with ardent?

I went and read all of his FTB answers and really didn't see anything suspicious. I am curious too.

Also, I didn't even know Render was in this game till I just saw him vote.... I might need to start paying more attention to him

[st.cronin]

oog:

Ardent's biological father passed away recently, apparently a suicide.

[bulletsponge]

aww man, thats sad

[Mr. Wednesday]

It's on the second page of the FTB answer thread, as I recall.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Good god being a basic Golden Ticket Wielding fat kid is HARD. I'd rather be a seer again like I was the first to games I played....

Having to actually think through all y'all's perforated logic is...well..painful =)
Well, yeah. Naturally it's hard when you don't really know anything. :p

[Mr. Wednesday]

if i was a wolf i would already know who i was voting for.
Are you saying this in a sense of, "as a wolf I would have enough knowledge to know who to vote for", or in a sense of, "if I were a wolf, I know who I would want to vote for assuming that they were not a wolf too"?

Basically, what I'm getting after is, do you think that there's somebody on the block who's more likely to be receiving votes from wolves?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Swaggs is awfully quiet. I feel inclined to shake the bushes a little bit and see what comes out.

VOTE Swaggs

[hoopsguy]

So I'm trying to figure out "Why Ardent?". There are obviously the standard reason - pick someone who is less likely to have the bodyguard on him that night. But was there anything in his posts to make him a target? Not that I saw on a brief recap.

The idea that I can't shake, and it is 100% metagame, is that it was someone who decided he deserved an early kill as a "payback" from the Survivor game. I did not play in this game, so it would require some work for me to comb through those threads to figure out who might be grinding an axe. Can anyone who recalls that game give me a hand here? Without having a clear Day 2 vote I wouldn't mind at least having some possibilities from that game to consider.

[st.cronin]

Hoops, I believe Grammaticus was on the other end of the blowup. Looking at the roster of this game, the only person who I think was involved in that at all was Barkeep, as the host. I don't think he would play that way.

[Passacaglia]

If it's the blowup you guys are thinking of, I think it was me that was on the other end. And we made up pretty soon after it was over, so I don't think I would be seeking revenge or anything -- if anything, he would be seeking revenge on me.

Anyway, why choose the survivor game? There have been other games since then -- or is it because it was the most recent drama?

[Mr. Wednesday]

ardent seems like an even odder choice because he's often a lightning-rod for controversy, drawing a lot of attention even when he's a good guy... the sort of player that's valuable for wolves to draw attention away from themselves.

I'm going to be gone for a while starting in five minutes or so. I will probably not be back until after the deadline.

[st.cronin]

Actually I think the guys who had the most to say about ardent in that game were Jonathan E and kingfc, neither one of whom is playing. I think is a dead end.

Ardent voted for saldana. Guys, it doesn't get any easier than this. I think you have to try real hard to find somebody other than saldana to vote for.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, I thought of it because it was the most recent drama involving Ardent Enthusiast that I could recall. And it was messier, with him invading other threads, than most of the blowups in WW-land.

Again, I was just trying to piece together in my mind why somoene might have selected AE for the Night 1 kill.

[bulletsponge]

Are you saying this in a sense of, "as a wolf I would have enough knowledge to know who to vote for", or in a sense of, "if I were a wolf, I know who I would want to vote for assuming that they were not a wolf too"?

Basically, what I'm getting after is, do you think that there's somebody on the block who's more likely to be receiving votes from wolves?

im was saying im a better and more decisive wolf than villager. if im still alive after 3 or 4 days its likely because im a wolf in sheeps clothing

[hoopsguy]

Does anyone have a vote total at this point? I know Lathum said he wasn't going to be around much before the deadline so we probably need to have this ready. I'll put one together when I get home from work if there isn't something up by then.

For lack of a better option, I'll probably now turn my attention more fully to the Cronin/Saldana/Alan triangle. It sounds like most people are voting, or at least considering votes, in this area. So it probably makes sense to figure out which of these guys I trust the most.

[saldana]

Actually I think the guys who had the most to say about ardent in that game were Jonathan E and kingfc, neither one of whom is playing. I think is a dead end.

Ardent voted for saldana. Guys, it doesn't get any easier than this. I think you have to try real hard to find somebody other than saldana to vote for.

i cant believe you are using that as your reasoning...that has the gotta be the oldest wolf play in the world to cast suspicion on someone...

"saldana had the second most votes yesterday, so lets kill one of the people that voted for him so it looks like he was out for revenge"

you are really pushing hard on me while using the most flawed logic i have seen in a long time.

vote st cronin

[ntndeacon]

I would think that St. cronin's suggestion that Ardent was killed for revenge preposturous. I think that the person for whom the night one voted for is mostly a good guy. So I know I shant be voting for Saldana today. Even though Ithink st cronin usually knows vbetter than that iam not sure I want to pull the trigger on him either.

[st.cronin]

I would think that St. cronin's suggestion that Ardent was killed for revenge preposturous. I think that the person for whom the night one voted for is mostly a good guy. So I know I shant be voting for Saldana today. Even though Ithink st cronin usually knows vbetter than that iam not sure I want to pull the trigger on him either.

Actually hoopsguy was the one who suggested ardent was a revenge kill. I haven't speculated on why ardent was killed. My suggestion is that ardent's kill, and yesterday's vote, makes saldana a person of interest, and that there is nobody else who is as interesting. He's going to be a topic of discussion until something else happens, such as a seer coming out and saying what side saldana is on.

I'm using pure logic, here. I DO encourage people to find their own candidates, though. That's a way to make today's vote meaningful.

[Passacaglia]

As I start to leave work, I'll need to put in a vote soon. In an effort to avoid "The Triangle," I'm looking somewhere else. I'm suspicious of cronin, but there's enough suspicion on him, and I'd rather see how this plays out with others before casting a vote on him myself. I'm looking at LSG, since it was her vote that put 4 on CR, making it a runaway.

[ntndeacon]

Actually hoopsguy was the one who suggested ardent was a revenge kill. I haven't speculated on why ardent was killed. My suggestion is that ardent's kill, and yesterday's vote, makes saldana a person of interest, and that there is nobody else who is as interesting. He's going to be a topic of discussion until something else happens, such as a seer coming out and saying what side saldana is on.

I'm using pure logic, here. I DO encourage people to find their own candidates, though. That's a way to make today's vote meaningful.

I should have been clearer. I dont remember you calling it a revenge killing, but using those two pieces of information certainly implied that to me. I do find it intersting we have a whole lot of folks with one vote and the current leader (you ) has 2. it isnt the run away that I imagined

[Passacaglia]

Pass, I thought of it because it was the most recent drama involving Ardent Enthusiast that I could recall. And it was messier, with him invading other threads, than most of the blowups in WW-land.

Again, I was just trying to piece together in my mind why somoene might have selected AE for the Night 1 kill.

That makes sense. I don't think it really involved anyone else in this game other than me and Barkeep. I agree with st.cronin -- probably nothing to see here.

[ntndeacon]

Well ineed to leave here for play practice, so iwill go ahead and put in my vote. I really dont currently see any of the Alan-st Cronin-saldana as wolves (at the moment). So I will go with another that has been pretty quiet.
Vote Swaggs

[saldana]

Actually hoopsguy was the one who suggested ardent was a revenge kill.

yeah...from 6 games ago in a game i wasnt even playing in!

you are making me feel better and better about my vote when you take facts like that entirely out of context in further attempts to incriminate me

[st.cronin]

yeah...from 6 games ago in a game i wasnt even playing in!

you are making me feel better and better about my vote when you take facts like that entirely out of context in further attempts to incriminate me

What are you talking about? Are you even paying attention? I completely dismissed that line of reasoning.

[Passacaglia]

Wow, two votes on Swaggs for being quiet -- I'd imagine there are folks around at least as quiet as Swaggs, if not quieter.

[saldana]

Actually hoopsguy was the one who suggested ardent was a revenge kill. I haven't speculated on why ardent was killed. My suggestion is that ardent's kill, and yesterday's vote, makes saldana a person of interest, and that there is nobody else who is as interesting. He's going to be a topic of discussion until something else happens, such as a seer coming out and saying what side saldana is on.

I'm using pure logic, here. I DO encourage people to find their own candidates, though. That's a way to make today's vote meaningful.

here is your entire post...where exactly do you dismiss that line of reasoning.

[Passacaglia]

I'm assuming the problem is that the term "revenge kill" is being used in two different ways -- one sense that it was a revenge kill from the votes yesterday, and another that it was a revenge kill from a previous game. Perhaps people should be more clear when they talk about which one they mean.

[saldana]

Actually I think the guys who had the most to say about ardent in that game were Jonathan E and kingfc, neither one of whom is playing. I think is a dead end.

Ardent voted for saldana. Guys, it doesn't get any easier than this. I think you have to try real hard to find somebody other than saldana to vote for.

or maybe it was this one where the dismissal occurred

[DaddyTorgo]

RendeR has been quiet...

[saldana]

saldana (1)- cronin
cronin (2)- alant, saldana
hoops (1)- lsg
daddytorgo (1) - render
swaggs (2)- mr. w, ntn

[Passacaglia]

Time for me to head out. I'm putting in my vote.

VOTE LONESTARGIRL

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE SWAGGS

ties are bad for business. Let's see if stirring the pot brings anything to the surface.

[saldana]

saldana (1)- cronin
cronin (2)- alant, saldana
hoops (1)- lsg
daddytorgo (1) - render
swaggs (2)- mr. w, ntn, daddytorgo
lsg (1) - pass

updated for last two votes

[hoopsguy]

Saldana, how much of your vote for Cronin is because he is stubbornly going after you? Do you think he is a wolf or are you just frustrated by his position?

I've got to mow the lawn, but should be back well before deadline to get my vote in.

[Alan T]

Like I said earlier, my vote on cronin isn't steadfast, I could move it, but right now, haven't really received any feeling to make me want to just yet.

[saldana]

Saldana, how much of your vote for Cronin is because he is stubbornly going after you? Do you think he is a wolf or are you just frustrated by his position?

I've got to mow the lawn, but should be back well before deadline to get my vote in.

a little bit of both...he isnt making sense, and he is coming after me full bore with really nothing. but i have nothing better to go on, so if something better came up, i wouldnt be against moving it

[RendeR]

RendeR has been quiet...

Have not.

[bulletsponge]

aww nuts, my vote is going to be the tiebreaker. let me read up and take a wild guess

[st.cronin]

There's still over two hours to deadline, right? So no rush.

[bulletsponge]

ok im voting for

Vote Passacaglia

[saldana]

ok im voting for

Vote Passacaglia

any reason for that, or just trying to have absolutely no impact on what is happening in the game:rolleyes:

[bulletsponge]

any reason for that, or just trying to have absolutely no impact on what is happening in the game:rolleyes:

its better than a negative impact.

[Passacaglia]

I think I'm entitled to a bit more reasoning than that.

[st.cronin]

Hoopsguy, Barkeep, and Swaggs haven't voted yet? Is that the complete list?

[Swaggs]

Well, I was going to place a vote for ntndeacon because I thought his vote yesterday was kind of quietly placed and a throway, much like I would have done if I were trying to stay under the radar as a wolf.

Now, having caught up, it seems like there is a semi-swell against me, so looks like I'll have to go the self-preservation route. I'm not sure if the momentum against me is planned to protect someone else or not, but it will be interesting to see if saldana/Alan T/st.cronin go late against me, with the others.

I actually think I am going to go ahead with my gut and vote for ntndeacon and hope I get some support. At worst, I am a just a ticket winner, so at least you guys wouldn't be lynching our seer.

Vote ntndeacon

[hoopsguy]

OK, so the votes look like this (basing off earlier list):

swaggs (3)- mr. w, ntn, daddytorgo
cronin (2)- alant, saldana
saldana (1)- cronin
hoops (1)- lsg
daddytorgo (1) - render
lsg (1) - pass
pass (1) - bullet

I've got zero interest in casting a vote for someone without one yet at this point, and the "Swaggs = quiet" doesn't carry much weight for me at this stage in the game. So, with a vote that feels just slightly more informed than a Day 1, I'll go with a vote for LSG. I know that I'm just a stock golden ticket winner without any ulterior motives, so that tells me that I'm not voting for the seer. That is enough for me to put her up closer to the top in votes.

VOTE LONESTARGIRL

[saldana]

saldana (1)- cronin
cronin (2)- alant, saldana
hoops (1)- lsg
daddytorgo (1) - render
swaggs (3)- mr. w, ntn, daddytorgo
lsg (2) - pass, hoops
pass (1) - bulletsponge
ntn (1) - swaggs

still to vote - barkeep

[DaddyTorgo]

saldana (1)- cronin
cronin (2)- alant, saldana
hoops (1)- lsg
daddytorgo (1) - render
swaggs (2)- mr. w, ntn, daddytorgo
lsg (1) - pass
bullet (1) - pass
ntn (1) - swaggs

[DaddyTorgo]

no way swaggus swaggus would vote for someone to not bring it closer together unless he was a villager and believed in his actions and was willing to sacrifice himself. Well i'm not going to put him to death

UNVOTE SWAGGS

now I just gotta figure out where to vote

[DaddyTorgo]

saldana (1)- cronin
cronin (2)- alant, saldana
hoops (1)- lsg
daddytorgo (1) - render
swaggs (2)- mr. w, ntn,
lsg (1) - pass
bullet (1) - pass
ntn (1) - swaggs

to vote: barkeep, DT

[saldana]

is anyone else bothered by the blatant throwaway by bullet?

[bulletsponge]

im not

[DaddyTorgo]

sal's count is right. Somehow I missed bullet's vote for pass in mine. Which is...weird. Bullet is normally too good a player for that.

[DaddyTorgo]

LOL @ bullet

[DaddyTorgo]

well I'm in a bad situation.

I don't think cronin is bad enough to vote for him. And I won't vote for Swaggs now since circumstantial evidence points to him as good. So that leaves me either a) no-voting, or b) creating a 3-way tie with somebody.

And neither of those is really going to endear me to anyone. And since I now believe Swaggs to be a villager (although I have no evidence he has any additional knowledge), I will take a leap of faith that maybe he has some type of inside information or has noticed something.

VOTE NTN

[bulletsponge]

sal's count is right. Somehow I missed bullet's vote for pass in mine. Which is...weird. Bullet is normally too good a player for that.

you overestimate my ability to be paranoid

[bulletsponge]

ok ill jump on the "trust swaggs" bandwagon, and change my vote

Unvote Passacaglui

Vote Ntndeacon

both are on my do not trust list, so its not a big leap

[st.cronin]

Very strange vote total, in my opinion.

[LoneStarGirl]

ok im voting for

Vote Passacaglia

I think Bullet has a crush on me and since you voted for me Pass, the only thing he could do is retaliate :D

[Swaggs]

Just to be clear, I absolutely do not have any insider information on ntndeacon. As I said earlier, I just picked him based on the manner in which he voted yesterday. And then, the semi-run on me, which included him, kind of strengthened that feeling.

[bulletsponge]

Just to be clear, I absolutely do not have any insider information on ntndeacon. As I said earlier, I just picked him based on the manner in which he voted yesterday. And then, the semi-run on me, which included him, kind of strengthened that feeling.


duly noted

[bulletsponge]

I think Bullet has a crush on me and since you voted for me Pass, the only thing he could do is retaliate :D


:rolleyes:

[saldana]

gotta love when the thunderstorm knocks out your cable modem 20 minutes before the deadline

[saldana]

saldana (1)- cronin
cronin (2)- alant, saldana
hoops (1)- lsg
daddytorgo (1) - render
swaggs (2)- mr. w, ntn
lsg (1) - pass
ntn (3) - swaggs, torgo, bullet

still no vote - barkeep

[st.cronin]

Barkeep to me has become one of the more infamous non-voters in our little group. It seems like at least once every game he misses a vote.

[saldana]

saldana (1)- cronin
cronin (2)- alant, saldana
hoops (1)- lsg
daddytorgo (1) - render
swaggs (2)- mr. w, ntn
lsg (2) - pass, hoops
ntn (3) - swaggs, torgo, bullet

still no vote - barkeep

updated because i missed hoops vote for lsg

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep to me has become one of the more infamous non-voters in our little group. It seems like at least once every game he misses a vote.
Infamous you say? Ha I say.

[st.cronin]

In the nick of time!

[Barkeep49]

I trust NTN. Vote Saldana

[saldana]

timestamp for our fearless leaders sake

[Lathum]

deadline

[Barkeep49]

I do regret leaving it so close because I would preferred to force a tie. Frankly I think the reasoning against NTN and Swaggs is little and think that saldana and cronin showed us far more. If I was willing to risk a tie my vote would have been with cronin who I trust less than saldana.

[saldana]

I trust NTN. Vote Saldana

i liked it better when you were a no show:p

[saldana]

I do regret leaving it so close because I would preferred to force a tie. Frankly I think the reasoning against NTN and Swaggs is little and think that saldana and cronin showed us far more. If I was willing to risk a tie my vote would have been with cronin who I trust less than saldana.


you trust him less, but you voted for me?

[st.cronin]

So that's two different players who say they find me suspicious yet voted for somebody else - Alan T and Barkeep.

Just putting those names out there, in case it becomes important later.

[Barkeep49]

you trust him less, but you voted for me?

So that's two different players who say they find me suspicious yet voted for somebody else - Alan T and Barkeep.

Just putting those names out there, in case it becomes important later.

Yup because I've been criticised mightily in the past for forcing ties. You two are more suspicious to me than either Swaggs or NTN. I'd preferred to have gone cronin but didn't want to risk bringing wrath down on myself for testing an unknown tie breaker. However, I don't feel like I wasted a vote since saldana is still suspicious to me.

[Lathum]

The group gathers again, clearly rattled about ardents death the night before. The majority decides NTNDeacon is guilty, you point a collective finger at him.

Just as you do a secret elevator opens and the same funny little creatures appear and begin to sing.

"oompa loompa doppie de do
i've got another puzzle for you
what do you get when you lynch a good guy
leaving yourselves high and dry
the bad guys are closer to winning now
want to stay alive I'll show you how
try and get a bad guy tommorow to wreck
or end up with a candy cane in your neck
i'de sleep with one eye open if I was you
like the oompa loompa doppie de do"


With that the shuffle NTNDeacon away, he goes back to his ordinary life as a janitor. NTN deacon was a golden ticket holder.
saldana (2)- cronin, barkeep
cronin (2)- alant, saldana
hoops (1)- lsg
daddytorgo (1) - render
swaggs (2)- mr. w, ntn
lsg (2) - pass, hoops
ntn (3) - swaggs, torgo, bullet

night 2 has begun

[Lathum]

how nice is it to play again and have people intersted at the deadline

[Passacaglia]

Checking in...wow, interesting turn of events.

[st.cronin]

Well, I was going to place a vote for ntndeacon because I thought his vote yesterday was kind of quietly placed and a throway, much like I would have done if I were trying to stay under the radar as a wolf.

Now, having caught up, it seems like there is a semi-swell against me, so looks like I'll have to go the self-preservation route. I'm not sure if the momentum against me is planned to protect someone else or not, but it will be interesting to see if saldana/Alan T/st.cronin go late against me, with the others.

I actually think I am going to go ahead with my gut and vote for ntndeacon and hope I get some support. At worst, I am a just a ticket winner, so at least you guys wouldn't be lynching our seer.

Vote ntndeacon

This was the first vote for ntn, right? I have no problems whatsoever with Swaggs logic here. Going to look at the other two votes now...

[bulletsponge]

i dont want a candycane in the neck :(

i knew i should have stuck with Pass

[bulletsponge]

St Cronin dont bother anylizing my vote. i had no cause to change my vote to him

[RendeR]

WOw, 3 dead and all godlen ticket holders.


MORE CANDY FOR ME!!!!!!


Wooohoooo!


err...wait..This is a sad sad turn of events....


Who's got the Fizzy-Lifting Drinks?

[st.cronin]

no way swaggus swaggus would vote for someone to not bring it closer together unless he was a villager and believed in his actions and was willing to sacrifice himself. Well i'm not going to put him to death

UNVOTE SWAGGS

now I just gotta figure out where to vote

well I'm in a bad situation.

I don't think cronin is bad enough to vote for him. And I won't vote for Swaggs now since circumstantial evidence points to him as good. So that leaves me either a) no-voting, or b) creating a 3-way tie with somebody.

And neither of those is really going to endear me to anyone. And since I now believe Swaggs to be a villager (although I have no evidence he has any additional knowledge), I will take a leap of faith that maybe he has some type of inside information or has noticed something.

VOTE NTN




DT's rationale

ok ill jump on the "trust swaggs" bandwagon, and change my vote

Unvote Passacaglui

Vote Ntndeacon

both are on my do not trust list, so its not a big leap

and bullet's rationale

Both seem pretty weak to me, although not necessarily sinister. The timing is a little sinister - maybe a move by one of those guys to save somebody?

[saldana]

WOw, 3 dead and all godlen ticket holders.


MORE CANDY FOR ME!!!!!!


Wooohoooo!


err...wait..This is a sad sad turn of events....


Who's got the Fizzy-Lifting Drinks?

huh:confused:

[saldana]

DT's rationale



and bullet's rationale

Both seem pretty weak to me, although not necessarily sinister. The timing is a little sinister - maybe a move by one of those guys to save somebody?

that would point back to swaggs...he was the one on the block...bit of a ballsy move though if swaggs and one of torgo or bullet are wolves...giving away 2 to save 1 this early is a bad play

[Mr. Wednesday]

Both seem pretty weak to me, although not necessarily sinister. The timing is a little sinister - maybe a move by one of those guys to save somebody?
What was the count at the time?

[Barkeep49]

that would point back to swaggs...he was the one on the block...bit of a ballsy move though if swaggs and one of torgo or bullet are wolves...giving away 2 to save 1 this early is a bad play
Can you elaborate what you are thinking here since as I read your analysis I don't see it working the way you're describing. I also have trouble with the "there are three wolves" ideas.

[Barkeep49]

I will add that I found DT's rationale weak as well when I was going through the votes.

[st.cronin]

I think this was the count at the time:

saldana (1)- cronin
cronin (2)- alant, saldana
hoops (1)- lsg
daddytorgo (1) - render
swaggs (3)- mr. w, ntn, DT
lsg (1) - pass
pass (1) - bullet


So if it was a move to save somebody, it was either me or Swaggs. If I had to guess, I'd say all three voters were villagers. Second most likely scenario is that Swaggs is a wolf, and the other two are villagers.

[Swaggs]

If I was actively trying to sway others here, I would have picked one of the other folks that already had votes.

[Barkeep49]

If I was actively trying to sway others here, I would have picked one of the other folks that already had votes.
I agree your vote is pretty much above board. The fact that you'd voted for someone not at all on the block at the time was a big reason why I semi-trust you as it's not something you typically see as a wolf, especially in a small game like this where if there's only one other wolf you can't count on massing your votes to save you.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, how many wolves do you think we are dealing with in this game? More or less than three?

[Barkeep49]

I think 2 is most likely 3 is max.

[Barkeep49]

What do you think hoops?

[hoopsguy]

I do think it is three to start, with the one convert possibility listed in the rules. That number seems to make the most sense to me with the number of starting players we have. If it was a straight conversion I would think two is realistic, but that doesn't make too much sense to me with this ruleset.

[DaddyTorgo]

how can you guys find my reasoning weak? I laid it all out. I was in a crappy situation...a no-win situation. I wasn't going to stay on swaggs, who I am more sure of than anyone being good in this game right now.

ANYWHERE ELSE I went was going to force a tie. Unless I no-voted. Which wouldn't have been any better. I think there might have been one person I could have thrown my vote away on so it didn't matter, but that wouldn't have looked good either. Once I moved off Swaggs (which as I stated, I had to do), then my vote was going to either make a tie or else lynch cronin (who I am 2nd most sure of not being evil right now).

[saldana]

Can you elaborate what you are thinking here since as I read your analysis I don't see it working the way you're describing. I also have trouble with the "there are three wolves" ideas.

no where in there do i say anything about "there are three wolves", especially since i think we started with 2 plus a conversion. i think 3 to start plus a conversion would be too many.

as far as elaborating, what i was trying to say was that i doubted than any more than one of the 3 votes on ntn was a wolf, because having two of them expose themselves this early in the game would be suicidal.

[Swaggs]

I am in the crowd that was/is thinking two wolves to begin with, with a shot at a third via conversion.

The one good thing we have going for us, is that our seer, bodyguard and duke are still with us.

[RendeR]

huh:confused:


Pauses during his enjoyment of a pineapple on the lickable wallpaper...

"Yes?"

[st.cronin]

DT I don't entirely agree with your allergy to ties, but even so, at the time there was, what, 2 hours to deadline? Plenty of time for somebody else to break a tie.

That's what I don't get in some of these discussions: A tie at the deadline may or may not be a bad thing, but a tie hours before the deadline is actually a good thing because it forces people to make decisions.

[DaddyTorgo]

DT I don't entirely agree with your allergy to ties, but even so, at the time there was, what, 2 hours to deadline? Plenty of time for somebody else to break a tie.

That's what I don't get in some of these discussions: A tie at the deadline may or may not be a bad thing, but a tie hours before the deadline is actually a good thing because it forces people to make decisions.

true. but i'd rather be the one making the decision that schlepping it off on someone else.

and still, it's not something i think i deserve to be looked at poorly for, especially when i came out and explained my line of thinking and how i felt i was in a rough spot.

[Mr. Wednesday]

With 15 of us to start, 3 plus a possible conversion target seems about right.

[Lathum]

overslept, writeup coming

[Lathum]

You all wake up in the morning to find another one of you missing. You all rush to hoopsguy's room and find someone has stuffed his mouth full of marshmellow to the point of where he chocked on it! Hoopsguy was an ordinary golden ticket holder.

Day 3 has begun.

[Alan T]

overslept, writeup coming

I have never known you to do that before! :)

[bulletsponge]

choked on marshmellows? i hope when my time comes i drown in fudge

[st.cronin]

VOTE SALDANA

[LoneStarGirl]

st cronin, why saldana so early this morning?

[st.cronin]

I made my case yesterday, I've nothing to add this morning.