Any 3-4 Defense Advice?

[beeznik]

Hey guys, I am seriously pondering the idea of switching my teams defense to a 3-4. I have a little experience with it, but any experience I have with the 3-4 is from FOF2k4.

On my team, I have 3 players along my d-line that are studs. Both of my ends have excellent ratings while my DT, or prospective NT, is very good with a rating in the mid 70s.

My linebackers are ok. My SLB is very good, my MLB is very good, while my WLB and the 4th starting linebacker as of right now are both rated in the 50s.

So, any hints or pieces of advice would be welcome, both in the gameplanning and personnel departments.

Thanks!

[stevew]

As far as I can tell, the WLB is basically just a pass rusher on every down. I usually have solid success throwing a guy with high Pass rush strength/technique there, and he may only be like 35/35 overall rated. You want to have an all world SLB though, as they need to be able to play pass coverage. The inside guys also need to be good at coverage as well, and with run stopping.

[beeznik]

As far as I can tell, the WLB is basically just a pass rusher on every down. I usually have solid success throwing a guy with high Pass rush strength/technique there, and he may only be like 35/35 overall rated. You want to have an all world SLB though, as they need to be able to play pass coverage. The inside guys also need to be good at coverage as well, and with run stopping.

That's interesting. So you can set it so your WLB blitzes every down?

[stevew]

That's interesting. So you can set it so your WLB blitzes every down?

The WLB is part of the regular pass rush package on every down in a 3/4. I believe it says so somewhere in the game. I try to get a better than average WILB if I'm using a scrubby type WLB. I dunno if it helps cover his side of the field for runs, but I'm content thinking it does, anyways.

Then you can set any of the other linebackers blitz frequency on the game plan, misc settings screen.

[stevew]

dola, throw out everything you knew about the 34 in FOF 2k4, it's not the same.

[Subby]

There needs to be clarification on which linebacker drops back in 3 deep zone when a team is running the 3-4 base defense. In the 4-3, this is the WLB.

[johnnyshaka]

I've scrapped the 3-4 in 2K7 because I don't think it works as advertised. I've posted this over in the bug thread, but I've noticed several times that my WLB is listed as a blitzer when the documentation says that the WLB is *always* part of the pass rush. I've also seen where my WLB has been credited with some sort of pass rush stat (ie. a sack or hurry...etc) and not been listed as a blitzer.

[Icy]

I've scrapped the 3-4 in 2K7 because I don't think it works as advertised. I've posted this over in the bug thread, but I've noticed several times that my WLB is listed as a blitzer when the documentation says that the WLB is *always* part of the pass rush. I've also seen where my WLB has been credited with some sort of pass rush stat (ie. a sack or hurry...etc) and not been listed as a blitzer.

Agree, i tried the 3-4 in the NAFL as i had good success with it in the NAFL before the move from 2k4 and i'm clueless about how to make it work now with 2k7.

My WLB is a pash rushing machine but he can't put any pressure in the QB. Like you, i didn't see him being part of the pass rush every time as advertised. The problem i see with the 3-4 in FOF2k7 is that you can't put pressure in the QB, so without pressure, it's a waste of defensive scheme.

Of course i can't just blame the game, maybe it's me not adapting well from 2k4, but i think i had the personal to make it work.

[beeznik]

Well, all this information is kind of disheartening. Has anyone made the 3-4 work in 2k7? Is there really that much of a problem with the pass rush?

Hmm..

[stevew]

You really need to have good defensive linemen and Corners to make the scheme work. If your SLB is good, I've had 40-50 sack seasons consistantly..,.the corners seems to be a large factor though.

[QuikSand]

I've also seen where my WLB has been credited with some sort of pass rush stat (ie. a sack or hurry...etc) and not been listed as a blitzer.

I don't understand why this rates as a problem. Isn't this how it's supposed to work? The WLB is part of the pass rush period, not just when blitzing -- that's what the game documentation says.

I agree with your first point, that he shouldn't be listed as a blitzing defender (unless he's slotted elsewhere for that play, I suppose) -- but this (quoted above) doesn't seem like a problem to me. *shurg*

[MIJB#19]

I don't understand why this rates as a problem. Isn't this how it's supposed to work? The WLB is part of the pass rush period, not just when blitzing -- that's what the game documentation says.

I agree with your first point, that he shouldn't be listed as a blitzing defender (unless he's slotted elsewhere for that play, I suppose) -- but this (quoted above) doesn't seem like a problem to me. *shurg*I think putting that one line out of his words makes it go out of context. I think he meant to say that one should expect the WLB to either:
* never be listed as a blitzer and still racking pass rush stats
* be listed as a blitzer and not scoring pass rush stats when he isn't blitzing


Has nobody tested what LB is taken off the 3-4 personnel it in a nickel formation? it sounds like a pretty easy thing to test...

[MIJB#19]

There needs to be clarification on which linebacker drops back in 3 deep zone when a team is running the 3-4 base defense. In the 4-3, this is the WLB.Ah yes, I understood this wrong at first. The most logical assignment would be the WILB, since that's the player taken off when going into 3-4 nickel.


Freaky, in a test of using 3-deep 100% of the time and nickel personnell all the time (injuries off, apparently meaning all starters played on every down, independant of the % settings), my WLB ended up with 0 sacks and 3 hurries, while the RCB playing nickel back (blitzing 25% for WILB) ended up with 6 sacks (team high), 2 blocks and 4 hurries. The WLB actually allowed 40 catches, while the RCB playing nickel allowed only 14.

[johnnyshaka]

I think putting that one line out of his words makes it go out of context. I think he meant to say that one should expect the WLB to either:
* never be listed as a blitzer and still racking pass rush stats
* be listed as a blitzer and not scoring pass rush stats when he isn't blitzing


Yes, that's my point. Thank you.

[Surtt]

The WLB will never blitz, he is already part of the standard rush.

As far as I can tell the 34 in 2k7 is 34 only in name only.
It is really just a 43 with the WLB subbed in for a lineman.

[Synovia]

Ah yes, I understood this wrong at first. The most logical assignment would be the WILB, since that's the player taken off when going into 3-4 nickel.


Freaky, in a test of using 3-deep 100% of the time and nickel personnell all the time (injuries off, apparently meaning all starters played on every down, independant of the % settings), my WLB ended up with 0 sacks and 3 hurries, while the RCB playing nickel back (blitzing 25% for WILB) ended up with 6 sacks (team high), 2 blocks and 4 hurries. The WLB actually allowed 40 catches, while the RCB playing nickel allowed only 14.

Sounds pretty clear to me that the CB is being put in as the 4th lineman in that case. It wouldnt surprise me if the 4th lineman, in many cases, wasnt who we think he is.

[QuikSand]

As far as I can tell the 34 in 2k7 is 34 only in name only.
It is really just a 43 with the WLB subbed in for a lineman.

I pretty much agree with this. Applying too much "real football" logic to this probably does more harm than good.

[Warhammer]

Freaky, in a test of using 3-deep 100% of the time and nickel personnell all the time (injuries off, apparently meaning all starters played on every down, independant of the % settings), my WLB ended up with 0 sacks and 3 hurries, while the RCB playing nickel back (blitzing 25% for WILB) ended up with 6 sacks (team high), 2 blocks and 4 hurries. The WLB actually allowed 40 catches, while the RCB playing nickel allowed only 14.

I've been trying to come up with a way to combat this, but I haven't figured anything out yet. I think this happened in nickel situations under 2k4 as well, but I can't prove it. My ILBs gave up many more passes than you would think they would.

[ddrrbb]

Article explaining what the different LBs do in 4-3 and 3-4. I found it interesting. It spells out what is not so easily seen in a text sim (I'm not sure if that is a pun or not).


http://chiefs.scout.com/2/393649.html

db