Chris Benoit found dead....

[Maple Leafs]

The wwe.com updates are just getting more and more bizarre. The last one ends with something along the lines of "we know more, but we've been asked not to say". Um, OK.

[Neuqua]

Fwiw, what I'm hearing now is that he may have smothered his wife and child, and then gone down to the basement and hung himself.

[Groundhog]

Probably not the right thread for it, but it's posts like Travis's that leave me scratching my head sometimes regarding wrestling. If, say, Kiefer Sutherland died, would you think it odd if fans of 24 said that it was so sad because Sutherland was such a great guy, especially because of the way he single handedly defeated terrorists and never gave up despite the odds always being against him? Much like Sutherland, Benoit is an actor, so threads like Travis' and others in this thread just seem straight out of bizzaro land to me.

I think it's absolutely tragic what's happened, and I'd be very surprised if Benoit didn't do all this himself for whatever reason, as that's what everything points to right now. If that's the case then it doesn't matter what this guy was like when acting in the ring or what kind of issues he may have had in his personal life. He has (likely) commited one of the most horrific crimes anybody can commit

[Maple Leafs]

... if fans of 24 said that it was so sad because Sutherland was such a great guy, especially because of the way he single handedly defeated terrorists and never gave up despite the odds always being against him?
Bad analogy. Imagine if people said they admired Sutherland because he struggled in obscurity for years, was incredibly dedicated to his craft, and eventually achieved success against the odds after paying his dues for two decades.

Here's the big secret of wrestling: the fans know that it's fake.

[molson]

Probably not the right thread for it, but it's posts like Travis's that leave me scratching my head sometimes regarding wrestling. If, say, Kiefer Sutherland died, would you think it odd if fans of 24 said that it was so sad because Sutherland was such a great guy, especially because of the way he single handedly defeated terrorists and never gave up despite the odds always being against him? Much like Sutherland, Benoit is an actor, so threads like Travis' and others in this thread just seem straight out of bizzaro land to me.


Travis isn't talking about the character Chris Benoit portrays on TV, just like how Kiefer Sutherland fans wouldn't talk about what a great guy Jack Bauer was if something happened to Kiefer. It's subtle things like this that non-wrestling fans can't understand.

When someone says somebody is a "good wrestler" they don't mean that in the sense that "Jack Bauer is a great government agent". Wrestling, for those that appreciate it, IS a real craft, like acting. We can appreciate the performances of Chris Benoit and others, appreciating them for what they are. We don't appreciate him because he beats the bad guys, we appreciate him because of his talent for storytelling, psychology, and athleticism in a match.

It only took 5 pages or so of a wild double suicide thread for wrestling fans to have to defend themselves.

[Izulde]

Sad case, but also a little eerie, not only because of the McMahon thing, but because there was a very similiar multiple murder-suicide (if indeed that is what this is) here in Wisconsin about a week or two ago.

Makes you wonder if maybe something's not happening to our society or if it's just that the media is more quick to be aware of and cover things... probably a little bit of both.

In any event, though I haven't watched wrestling since the early-mid 80s, two of my good friends here in town are huge wrestling fans and from what they've told me, Benoit's always been a class act, so they're quite naturally devastated by this.

[Travis]

Travis isn't talking about the character Chris Benoit portrays on TV, just like how Kiefer Sutherland fans wouldn't talk about what a great guy Jack Bauer was if something happened to Kiefer. It's subtle things like this that non-wrestling fans can't understand.

When someone says somebody is a "good wrestler" they don't mean that in the sense that "Jack Bauer is a great government agent". Wrestling, for those that appreciate it, IS a real craft, like acting.

Pretty much. I never got the chance to meet him, but know a lot of people who did, whether at autograph signings or at local gyms, and the over riding response to these meetings was that he always had time and a kind word for them. When I've watched wrestling, it was always for the story told in the ring, I usually flip the station during interviews and segments (though I'll admit to watching a few Benoit bits just to see what sorts of bits they were trying to get him to do, the back and to the left line was so horribly delivered that it got quite a chuckle) and in this sense he's one of the greatest to ever step inside the ring as an athlete, not an actor.

All that is gone if the popular theories are indeed true, and it's very sad that a guy who was thought of as a "good guy" in the industry ends up so very awful. There aren't many good role models anymore, it's even more tragic when one of them goes period, never mind if the disillusionment that'll follow if it's as evil as it's looking to be.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I sincerely hope that he's not responsible for everything that happened, and even trying to intellectually think of how I'll respond if/when it's proven is just not doable right now. The guy pretty much embodied wrestling the way I wish it would be as an industry and I had thought was a pretty decent human being at the same time.

I believe you pretty much just summed up where I'm at.

And Neuqua's comparison to Cal Ripken, Jr. is a darned good one as far as trying to put Benoit's stature in some sort of perspective for another sport, although if anything it might be understating how he was viewed by a lot of serious wrestling fans (since Ripken was at least occasionally criticized for possibly hurting his team by extending the streak during slumps, injuries, etc.).

[Neon_Chaos]

RIP Chris.

I hope that you have found peace wherever you are.

Say hi to Eddie and Owen for us.

edit: I just woke up, and am just reading along. Double murder/suicide? Wow. Just wow.

[DeToxRox]

WWE.com has apparently taken down any videos of last nights tribute, as well as anything involving Benoits personal life. To boot tonights SD and ECW shows will not be tributes and the McMahon angle won't go on (obviously).

Sounds like WWE is not even acknowledging it and I can't say I blame them, though a graphic for Nancy and Daniel Benoit would not be out of line.

[Neon_Chaos]

I hope to God that they reboot. The McMahon angle was off to a bad start, and now this.

[Neon_Chaos]

dola: the WWE server is taking a massive hit right now.

[saldana]

unbelievable.

benoit just went from being Thurman Munson to being Rae Carruth in about 6 seconds flat.

i think this is worse than finding out he was dead to begin with.

[NoMyths]

I didn't know anything about Chris Benoit before his death (didn't watch wrestling), but I do want to express my sympathies to everyone here who feels wounded by this tragedy. We recently had a tragedy in Charleston that united our community around a lot of men far less well known that Benoit, and it really surprised me how much myself and others were affected by the deaths of men who weren't close friends or family members. We feel a connection with the things that are part of our lives, and it makes sense that a lot of wrestling fans would be struggling with the story.

[Flasch186]

I will be pleasantly surprised if WWE actually handles this right. Over the years they've botched so many things up to and including McMahon's fake 10 bell salute.....so Im hoping to god that they get this right.

and screw Benoit....I cant believe that.

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting stuff going on late last night there. guess the dude really was a POS. Or something happened and he snapped. But either way...it's a damm shame that someone who's life was by all accounts we've heard exemplery, will always be remembered as a POS.

Because I can't help but think of him that way now. And he was in my personal "Top 10" of great workers, and guys who I enjoyed seeing work in the ring. But that's all colored now by this. It's like...none of that even matters, I won't think of that anymore. He doesn't get to be remembered in that way. He gets to be remembered as a dirtbag POS.

*shrug*

and this from someone who isn't a hater, but was an actual Benoit-aficianado.

[Ksyrup]

or perhaps benoit, in some sort of alcohol or drug blackout, kills his wife in an argument and passes out. he forgets this happened until waking or being waked by his son. overcome with grief and shame, he decides he should die for what he's done...but doesn't want to leave his son alone/scarred for life? so he kills his son before killing himself in a misguided attempt to get a fresh start in the afterlife or tie up loose strings or take care of his responsibilities or whatever the reasoning of a madman.

This is all I could come up with last night when thinking about how something like this happens, given the circumstances. However the wife's death happened, I assume it wasn't planned, and when he sat down to think about what he had done and what was going to happen going forward, he decided he had to kill himself and that his son was better dead with his family than alive without his parents, let alone having to live with what he saw or knew about what had happened. In a warped way, I can understand that. He probably felt like killing the kid was doing him a favor.

But who the hell knows what goes through someone's mind at a time like that. If nothing else, this will be a fascinating story to follow (at least for someone not attached to him/wrestling like me).

[DaddyTorgo]

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[DaddyTorgo]

WWE (http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/56289/Even-More-New-Information-On-The-Chris-Benoit-Double-Murder-Suicide.htm#).com has provided a new update on the Chris Benoit double murder-suicide situation where they paint a rough timeline of the weekend's events relating to the story.

The WWE.com story is below.

Benoit's death part of a double murder-suicide
Written: June 25, 2007

According to lead investigator Lt. Tommy Pope, of the Fayette County Sheriff's Department, in Fayetteville, Ga., the deaths of WWE Superstar (http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/56289/Even-More-New-Information-On-The-Chris-Benoit-Double-Murder-Suicide.htm#) Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel were the result of a double murder-suicide, WWE.com has learned.

Benoit failed to appear both at Saturday's live event in Beaumont, Tx., and WWE's Vengeance: Night of Champions in Houston Sunday night, after informing WWE of a family emergency. Several curious text messages sent by Benoit early Sunday morning prompted concerned friends to alert Richard Hering, VP of Government Relations for WWE, Inc. Hering, in turn, spoke with Fayette County sheriffs Monday, and requested that they respond to the Benoit residence to check on him and his family.

Authorities representing the Sheriff's Department initially had a difficult time entering Benoit's new Fayetteville home Monday afternoon, which had been guarded by two large German Shepherds roaming freely around the property. Once authorities entered the residence, they quickly located the bodies of Benoit, Nancy and Daniel. WWE was notified of the discovery at approximately 4 p.m.

At 10 p.m. Monday night, Lt. Pope held a press conference in conjunction with Scott Ballard, the district attorney for Fayette County. The press conference officially ruled authorities' findings as a double murder-suicide from within the home.

WAGA, a FOX-owned and operated television station in Atlanta, reported that investigators believe Benoit killed his wife and 7-year-old son over the weekend, then himself on Monday.

The three bodies have been received by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation's crime lab, in Decatur, Ga., where autopsies will be performed Tuesday morning. Toxicology reports will not become available for at least two weeks.

WWE.com has further information relating to both the investigation and the cause of death, but the Fayette County Sheriff's Department has requested that WWE.com not release any additional details at this time.

[DaddyTorgo]

triple-dola

I know that's a story from yesterday. thought there might be some new info in there that people hadn't seen though.

[JeeberD]

I'm with Bucc. Your post doesn't explain anything. There are so many posts here where I just thought to myself "Why is this poster acting like they actually knew this guy?"

I guess I can get being sad and maybe even saying you're going to throw up about some guy you don't know killing his family then himself. But then all the posts about not understanding how he could do it? Nobody here knew the guy. I have never seen this kind of reaction to a famous person's death. It's bizarre to some of us, clearly.

I'm not begrudging anyone their feelings or their reaction. But Bucc is not alone.

I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't take it personally if Vince young or Major Applewhite murdered their family and then killed themself. I'm no wrestling fan, but I can certainly see where folks are coming from...

[Ryche]

Just wow. Had to have a bad feeling when you heard that all three were dead, but for it to actually have occurred this way, I just can't fathom. You have to think as bad as everyone involved at WWE was feeling last night, this is a double blow to have poured their hearts out over Benoit and his love for his family. If anything, I think I'm grieving for his fellow wrestlers as much as anyone.

[NoSkillz]

I watched the tribute show last night and was actually getting a bit emotional.

Now I'm literally just sick to my stomach after catching up in this thread.

[Blade]

I am absolutely floored by all of this. I was at the gym this morning when I heard the update that it is looking like a murder-suicide, and I share similar feelings to most of you.

I have watched Benoit for quite a while, and because of his work ethic in the ring, I was always a fan. I had heard similar things to Travis around town, that he seemed to be a nice guy all around, but for this to happen, if true...just wow...

I have been looking at my Benoit DVD, wondering if I can ever watch it again.

[Neon_Chaos]

It's pretty hard to get through something like this... and this is from a fan's POV. My heart goes out to all those guys who've been on the road with Benoit, and the friends of his family. To imagine how they feel right now... :(

[Pumpy Tudors]

What was this "McMahon angle" that was occurring before Benoit's death? I keep seeing references to it in the thread, but I don't know anything about it.

[Neon_Chaos]

What was this "McMahon angle" that was occurring before Benoit's death? I keep seeing references to it in the thread, but I don't know anything about it.

They "killed off" the Vince McMahon character via an exploding limo a couple of weeks ago. It was supposed to be a "who dunnit" angle to run through the summer. Of course, many people felt that this was in bad taste (giving Vince a ten-bell salute and all, pretty disrespectful for all the guys who were given them before)

[saldana]

It's pretty hard to get through something like this... and this is from a fan's POV. My heart goes out to all those guys who've been on the road with Benoit, and the friends of his family. To imagine how they feel right now... :(

i would imagine they are probably hoping the same thing some of us are right now...that something snapped in Chris's head after one too many headbutts, and he essentially lost his mind...i keep telling myself that is what the autopsy is going to find...some serious brain damage that his actions can be attributed to.

[Huckleberry]

I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't take it personally if Vince young or Major Applewhite murdered their family and then killed themself. I'm no wrestling fan, but I can certainly see where folks are coming from...

I actually thought of the Vince Young example. And, no, I wouldn't take it personally. I don't know him personally so why would I? Vince Young could be an asshole lunatic despite what I've heard about him. I have no way of knowing. His entire persona could be a carefully crafted PR creation.

I'm truly saddened by the Benoit tragedy. A woman and a young child lost their lives, apparently at the hands of their deranged husband/father. There aren't many worse things in this world.

That's apparently just a difference between people. I allow myself to be entertained by performers. Actors, athletes, combinations like wrestlers. But I rarely consider myself a fan of the actual person because I don't know the actual person. Sure some fluff stories cause me to like the person, especially those that I'm repeatedly exposed to (like Nathan Vasher) and those that I can get second-hand confirmation. But even if someone like Vasher did something nuts I wouldn't take it personally. As stated before, I don't know him.

It's important to note that I don't consider hero worship or intense personal identification an inherently bad thing. I'm pretty sure I've read that such internalization can actually be psychologically beneficial.

Anyway, people like me don't get people like y'all and vice versa. C'est la vie.

[Neon_Chaos]

i would imagine they are probably hoping the same thing some of us are right now...that something snapped in Chris's head after one too many headbutts, and he essentially lost his mind...i keep telling myself that is what the autopsy is going to find...some serious brain damage that his actions can be attributed to.

This is just surreal. It's akin to David Robinson killing his family. It just doesn't make sense from a fan's point of view. :( But then again, I do not know Benoit personally.

Looks like the Hart curse hit again. :( The business will kill you or eat out your soul.

[Ajaxab]

My sympathies go out to the Benoit family as well. It seems to be the worst possible situation to have to deal with.

I'm curious as to what effect this has on Vince McMahon. He seems about as callous an individual as there is, but could something like this provoke any kind of change in the way he does business? I used to watch wrestling a decade or so ago, but the way he pushed the WWE into becoming more and more slimy pushed me away. I'm not optimistic, but I wonder if this could possibly change his business practices.

[Buccaneer]

Without reading much further, I think Jon and Schmidty get close to my "difference". I am sad and feel bad about what happened, just like I felt about the deaths from the Pakistani floods this past weekend and many other untimely or tragic deaths. To use Jon's analogy, the closest thing I could come up with would be if Tony Gwynn would die suddenly. I would feel sad and bad for the family but it wouldn't hit me hard simply because he is not a "loved one". I never have, nor ever will take my interest in a star/player/entertainier to the point where it would feel like I lost a loved one. That was what I was sensing here but I could have been misinterpreting.

[Ben E Lou]

Updates from the AJC...

"Benoit's employer, World Wrestling Entertainment, said on its Website Tuesday that Benoit had sent "several curious text messages" to friends, but police on Tuesday said they had identified only one.


Fayette Sheriff's Lt. Tommy Pope on Tuesday confirmed a text message had been sent from Benoit's cellphone at 4:30 a.m. Saturday, but he decline to disclose the message's content or recipient."






"Benoit was found in the home's weight room, his wife in an office and his son in an upstairs bedroom."

[Neon_Chaos]

Investigators believe Benoit killed his wife and son over the weekend and then himself sometime Monday.


"I'm comfortable with our belief that this is a murder-suicide," Fayette County District Attorney Scott Ballard said Tuesday.


The bodies were found in three rooms. Autopsies were planned for Tuesday.


"The details, when they come out," said Ballard, "are going to prove
a little bizarre."


A little bizarre? Jeez. I have a bad feeling about this.

[MikeVic]

It's been an emotional roller coaster. I was upset that I wouldn't see Punk vs Benoit at the Sunday PPV, and when it was announced that he had to go home for family reasons, I didn't really think much about it.

Monday morning and afternoon, I was looking at wrestling sites periodically to see people's thoughts on the PPV. And I see that his family was apparently coughing up blood. Then when I get home I see on this forum that Benoit was found dead. Then I read that his wife and son were dead too.

A friend calls me and we go watch the RAW at another friend's house. A nice tribute show that protrayed Benoit as a nice, family man. Then when I get home my sister says that he killed his family and then himself! It just seems to unreal. I don't know what to think.

[Maple Leafs]

Fayette Sheriff's Lt. Tommy Pope on Tuesday confirmed a text message had been sent from Benoit's cellphone at 4:30 a.m. Saturday, but he decline to disclose the message's content or recipient.
Reports on some of the wrestling sites have said that it was Chavo Guerrero who received the text(s).

For his sake, hopefully it wasn't something that he could have acted on and chose not to. What a burden that would be to carry...

[Travis]

Without reading much further, I think Jon and Schmidty get close to my "difference". I am sad and feel bad about what happened, just like I felt about the deaths from the Pakistani floods this past weekend and many other untimely or tragic deaths. To use Jon's analogy, the closest thing I could come up with would be if Tony Gwynn would die suddenly. I would feel sad and bad for the family but it wouldn't hit me hard simply because he is not a "loved one". I never have, nor ever will take my interest in a star/player/entertainier to the point where it would feel like I lost a loved one. That was what I was sensing here but I could have been misinterpreting.

Speaking for myself, it's certainly not like a family member or close friend died. It was actually a little bizarre yesterday when the news came down, pretty much like a savage punch to the stomach more than anything. Benoit was just one of those guys that I grew up watching, had never really heard anything bad about (and plenty of single degree of seperation good things), and at least in the sense of an athlete, had been built up in my mind to a pretty high level, one of those guys you think had the ability to look at any challenge, laugh at it and plow right through it. I had thought that people could take a look at how he handled himself and apply it to their lives and be improved for it.

Now, on top of that, add in an absolute sickening feeling of dread as the *worst* possible explanation surfaces and while I never knew the guy personally, every good thing about him has been pretty much stripped away in the harshest way imaginable.

I wouldn't have shed a tear, though I'm guessing I would have gotten a bit choked up during the show last night had I been home were he a victim in this, but even with how everything looks right now I'm still holding out some hope that they find something that will put him in a better light.

Denial, probably, but also a childhood hero who survived my adult appraisals has not only been taken away suddenly, but in the most vicious way.

[Ksyrup]

Probably not the right thread for it, but it's posts like Travis's that leave me scratching my head sometimes regarding wrestling. If, say, Kiefer Sutherland died, would you think it odd if fans of 24 said that it was so sad because Sutherland was such a great guy, especially because of the way he single handedly defeated terrorists and never gave up despite the odds always being against him? Much like Sutherland, Benoit is an actor, so threads like Travis' and others in this thread just seem straight out of bizzaro land to me.

I think I understand where you're coming from with this comment. There's this strange line between fake sport and legit entertainment that has me scratching my head as well, since it's hard to see where or - in the case of some people, like the "IT'S REAL TO ME DAMMIT!" guy - if at all, the line is drawn.

A good example of this is found in the articles being run today about this horrible situation. In describing Benoit, there's this:

"He was a former world heavyweight champion, Intercontinental champion and held several tag-team titles over his career."

Now, I have no doubt those things are factually accurate, but it strikes me as beyond bizarre that they would be cited as though they were some legitimate titles he "won" during his wrestling career. It is so matter-of-fact that you might as well be describing a boxing title or MVP award or something like that, when in reality, he was given those titles based solely on the storylines of the shows he was on. Unless I'm completely missing something.

This would be like describing a soap opera actor who died as having been President of XYZ Megacorp and having spent 3 years on an uncharted island with amnesia after his ex-wife slept with his brother, poisoned him, and paid pirates to carry him away. It's the strange blurring of the facts with fantasy that has me scratching my head.

I hope that makes sense. I'm not trying to put anyone down, and it's not really a comment on wrestling fans in general, since what I'm pointing out even extends to the media, apparently.

[Anthony]

I'm with Bucc. Your post doesn't explain anything. There are so many posts here where I just thought to myself "Why is this poster acting like they actually knew this guy?"

I guess I can get being sad and maybe even saying you're going to throw up about some guy you don't know killing his family then himself. But then all the posts about not understanding how he could do it? Nobody here knew the guy. I have never seen this kind of reaction to a famous person's death. It's bizarre to some of us, clearly.

I'm not begrudging anyone their feelings or their reaction. But Bucc is not alone.


i'm with Bucc and Huck. some of these reactions are completely weird. everytime i hear news about this i always just remember the title of a Jane's Addiction album:

Nothing's Shocking


this is the world that we live in. you don't know anything about anybody you see on tv. you also don't know all the facts. what if Benoit's wife killed her son, and in a rage he killed his wife? the autopsy's aren't even completed yet (that i know of).

i don't get this "i'm gonna vomit" or "i'm sick". you're sick about that, but not about the attrocities in Dafur or all the conflicts in the Middle East? so these things don't sicken people, but a millionaire who killed his family - that's what turns your stomachs?

funny world we live in. and by funny i mean pathetic.

[MikeVic]

i'm with Bucc and Huck. some of these reactions are completely weird. everytime i hear news about this i always just remember the title of a Jane's Addiction album:

Nothing's Shocking


this is the world that we live in. you don't know anything about anybody you see on tv. you also don't know all the facts. what if Benoit's wife killed her son, and in a rage he killed his wife? the autopsy's aren't even completed yet (that i know of).

i don't get this "i'm gonna vomit" or "i'm sick". you're sick about that, but not about the attrocities in Dafur or all the conflicts in the Middle East? so these things don't sicken people, but a millionaire who killed his family - that's what turns your stomachs?

funny world we live in. and by funny i mean pathetic.

People react differently to different situations. You were all happy your puppy can fetch slippers. To me, that's a whoop-dee-do. Regarding the war and stuff like that, I feel disconnected with it all. I followed wrestling so closely at a point that I feel like I know the wrestlers, even though I don't.

[Izulde]

i'm with Bucc and Huck. some of these reactions are completely weird. everytime i hear news about this i always just remember the title of a Jane's Addiction album:

Nothing's Shocking


this is the world that we live in. you don't know anything about anybody you see on tv. you also don't know all the facts. what if Benoit's wife killed her son, and in a rage he killed his wife? the autopsy's aren't even completed yet (that i know of).

i don't get this "i'm gonna vomit" or "i'm sick". you're sick about that, but not about the attrocities in Dafur or all the conflicts in the Middle East? so these things don't sicken people, but a millionaire who killed his family - that's what turns your stomachs?

funny world we live in. and by funny i mean pathetic.

I understand what you're saying, but ultimately, I think the reason why a murder of this nature strikes as many people home as it does is because the deaths in war, the atrocities in Dafur, are committed and received by people who are abstractions to most people, just a name, sometimes less than that.

Whereas celebrities, because of their elevated status, become more than abstraction--they become an entity their fans and people who follow their careers and/or lives, believe that they have some familiarity with and so the chance of significant emotional impact increases as a result of that familiarity and knowlege of them.

[Ben E Lou]

...emotional...

You mean like this guy, huh?

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<hr style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> After having thought about this before bed, and the first thing I thought when I woke up, I just cannot see Benoit doing this. The facts just do not add up at all.

When he left for a family emergency, if he truly did kill them both, then he would have already had thoughts of murder in his head well before he got home.

And why would it have took 3 days for everyone to die? I'm not gonna believe at all that Benoit killed Nancy on saturday, waited a full day, killed Daniel on sunday, waited a full day, then killed himself. Never in the history of news had I heard of something like that. People who have motives usually do that in a split second in one day, not drag it out over a weekend.

And I'm also very suspicious of the cops intents. They know, we know everyone loves a good story about the father killing his family. Makes reaaall good TV http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif

It doesn't add up. I'm really, really suspicious of this whole thing.
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<hr style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> Overall I just don't believe this. Everyone right now is jumping to conclusions. Like someone said above, about the soccer manager that died, I don't think we'll really get the truth for a very long time.

And honestly, evaluation a double murder/suicide is like shooting fish in a barrel. It's a blind assumption. ESPECIALLY when there are NO guns, knives, or apparently things of that matter. THAT is the biggest thing in this.

I really wish people denouncing Benoit would just shut the hell up and wait. Most of us, unlike alot of you, have patience.

The only way I'll believe Benoit really killed his family, is if they really indentify Benoit's prints around their throats or something of that nature. Cold, hard proof. Otherwise I believe it to be bull****.
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[Anthony]

People react differently to different situations. You were all happy your puppy can fetch slippers. To me, that's a whoop-dee-do. Regarding the war and stuff like that, I feel disconnected with it all. I followed wrestling so closely at a point that I feel like I know the wrestlers, even though I don't.


what did Benoit do for you? how much of his millions did he put in your pocket? you feel more connected to some guy you watch on tv than troops who die trying to make the world a safer place for you to live in?

its funny to see people who are so shocked and surprised by something like this, as if they truly knew Benoit and what went on in his home and in his private life.

[MikeVic]

what did Benoit do for you? how much of his millions did he put in your pocket? you feel more connected to some guy you watch on tv than troops who die trying to make the world a safer place for you to live in?

its funny to see people who are so shocked and surprised by something like this, as if they truly knew Benoit and what went on in his home and in his private life.

He put his body on the line for something like 15 years to entertain me.

So you can't feel emotional about a millionaire that you don't know?

And yes, I said that I feel more connected to Benoit than to the troops. I feel bad about the troops too, but there's a disconnect there. If they had some kind of biography on TV for troops as they were alive, and then all of a sudden one of them killed two fellow troops and then himself... I'd also feel emotional about that if I watched any of their biographies.

[Maple Leafs]

Now, I have no doubt those things are factually accurate, but it strikes me as beyond bizarre that they would be cited as though they were some legitimate titles he "won" during his wrestling career. It is so matter-of-fact that you might as well be describing a boxing title or MVP award or something like that, when in reality, he was given those titles based solely on the storylines of the shows he was on. Unless I'm completely missing something.

Well, even though it's scripted, wrestling is still a competition in some sense. These guys are scripted to win these titles based on their abilities -- not just athletic, obviously, but the whole showmanship package that comes with being a wrestler. You get chosen to win a title because you're "good" at what you do, even though for some guys that doesn't have much to do with actual athleticism.

And even though the championships are fictional, winning one does bring a certain degree of responsibility as far as being a guy that the company is banking on. That's especially true for the world titles, which make you the de facto face of the company. It's not like the WWE decides they need a new champion and goes out and holds auditions to fill the role. In general, that spot if going to go to a guy who's been working for it for years.

So the fact that he held that many titles is a legitimate reflection of the "success" he had in his career, even though it wasn't the same type of success that for example a boxer would be able to claim. Using the actor analogy, it would be more like saying a guy had a twenty year movie career, including a half dozen starring roles in major blockbusters.

[Ksyrup]

This is going to get worse before it gets better - the Benoit story is now the lead on cnn.com.

It only took 5 hours to knock Paris Hilton off the lead story, huh?

[stevew]

wrestling sites sure seem to have an unbearable amount of ads to navigate.

[BYU 14]

what did Benoit do for you? how much of his millions did he put in your pocket? you feel more connected to some guy you watch on tv than troops who die trying to make the world a safer place for you to live in?

its funny to see people who are so shocked and surprised by something like this, as if they truly knew Benoit and what went on in his home and in his private life.

I think it would be shocking and surprising no matter who it was. The difference is, if this happened to a family in your town that nobody but you knew of, you would still be shocked and saddened, but may not choose to post it here because other posters don't share the "knowledge" of that person with you.

While this is very tragic to me, it doesn't affect me like it would if it was someone I knew personally. For me it is more the shock factor of someone so well known involved in something this terrible. And with him being so well known different people have different reactions.....What's the big deal? So what if you don't get it, nobody "gets everything" they encounter from others, why the hell even critique it?

[molson]

My sympathies go out to the Benoit family as well. It seems to be the worst possible situation to have to deal with.

I'm curious as to what effect this has on Vince McMahon. He seems about as callous an individual as there is, but could something like this provoke any kind of change in the way he does business? I used to watch wrestling a decade or so ago, but the way he pushed the WWE into becoming more and more slimy pushed me away. I'm not optimistic, but I wonder if this could possibly change his business practices.

As far as wrestling promoters go, I think all the wrestlers (and fans) are pretty fortunate that Vince McMahon is the guy who won dominance of the wrestling scene. He's paid for rehab for many of his wrestlers (Steve Regal has been especially appreciative in interviews). He's taken care of guys that have suffered career-ending injuries (Droz, Chris Nowitski). He's been a big supporter of charities like the Make-A-Wish foundation. In recent years, he's even emphasized and glorified wrestling's past, with the hall of fame, wwe 24/7, and countless apperances by "legends" on today's programming.

Sure, he could have taken a stronger stand on the drug issues, and he'll have to live with the consequences of that. But I hardly think Vince and WWE created the hard living and lifestyle associated with wrestling.

He's no angel. But as far as promoters go (and there's some real horror stories out there), I'm glad he's the guy that "won".

I don't think this will be a "wake up" call for him, like the Eddie Guerrero thing seemed to be. (Maybe the drug tests that were instituted then weren't perfect, and show favoritism, but a lot of guys have been suspended.) I don't view this as a "wrestling death". This is something else entirely. Steroids don't make you kill your family.

[molson]

wrestling sites sure seem to have an unbearable amount of ads to navigate.

Stay away from pwinsider.com. Unless you want to test out your spyware software.

[Eaglesfan27]

I'd disagree with that last sentence. Back when I was working the ER, I saw plenty of patients with acute psychosis, mania, and homicial intent who had those symptoms as the direct result of steroids. Some types of Steroids can lead to severe psychiatric symptoms and they certainly are a possible cause of this tragedy.

[molson]

.....What's the big deal? So what if you don't get it, nobody "gets everything" they encounter from others, why the hell even critique it?

I'm not a big music guy, and every once and a while there's a thread started about some legendary song writer or something who died. I don't go in there and, "who's this guy and why the hell do you care so much", because that's a jerkoff move. With wrestling though, that stuff is kind of expected.

[molson]

I'd disagree with that last sentence. Back when I was working the ER, I saw plenty of patients with acute psychosis, mania, and homicial intent who had those symptoms as the direct result of steroids. Some types of Steroids can lead to severe psychiatric symptoms and they certainly are a possible cause of this tragedy.

I stand corrected. But can steroids cause a sudden psychosis? I mean, he was a regular employee as of a day before this, wrestling several matches last week (including his final TV match last Tuesday). And what happened, apparently, wasn't a moment of rage, but a murder, 24 hours or so, and then another murder.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I stand corrected. But can steroids cause a sudden psychosis? I mean, he was a regular employee as of a day before this, wrestling several matches last week (including his final TV match last Tuesday). And that what happened, apparently, wasn't a moment of rage, but a murder, 24 hours or so, and then another murder.

I have a family member who takes steroids for medical reasons. I can assure you that "roid rage" can result in amazing things that occur much like switching on a light switch. They can go from calm to enraged in no time. It's an amazing and frightening thing to see. It's even more frightening to think about if/when it would occur in a wrestler who could literally kill a person with their own hands.

And yes, it can happen over time as well. It isn't always just a moment.

[Anthony]

I think it would be shocking and surprising no matter who it was. The difference is, if this happened to a family in your town that nobody but you knew of, you would still be shocked and saddened, but may not choose to post it here because other posters don't share the "knowledge" of that person with you.

While this is very tragic to me, it doesn't affect me like it would if it was someone I knew personally. For me it is more the shock factor of someone so well known involved in something this terrible. And with him being so well known different people have different reactions.....What's the big deal? So what if you don't get it, nobody "gets everything" they encounter from others, why the hell even critique it?

there's a lot going on in the world, in case you didn't know, that would sicken you if you ever took the time to step out of your cacoon. i can't tell people how to feel about things, but it certainly sounds like some people here are punching walls, looking up to the sky and screaming "whyyyyy Chris? whyyyyyy?".

this is like hearing 2 things have died - your next door neighbor's dog and a small child who got run over by a car 2 towns over from you, and you cry more over the dog dying cuz you've known it longer and it often entertained you instead of feeling bad for the baby cuz you never knew it and it happened further away from you.

[nole4sho]

I grew up watching Chris, I wish he didn't do what they are saying he did but as a wrestler he will be missed.

[Maple Leafs]

there's a lot going on in the world, in case you didn't know, that would sicken you if you ever took the time to step out of your cacoon. i can't tell people how to feel about things, but it certainly sounds like some people here are punching walls, looking up to the sky and screaming "whyyyyy Chris? whyyyyyy?".

this is like hearing 2 things have died - your next door neighbor's dog and a small child who got run over by a car 2 towns over from you, and you cry more over the dog dying cuz you've known it longer and it often entertained you instead of feeling bad for the baby cuz you never knew it and it happened further away from you.
An incredibly basic and fundamental aspect of human psychology has been discovered by a poster on an internet forum. Somebody alert the media.

[Ksyrup]

I'd disagree with that last sentence. Back when I was working the ER, I saw plenty of patients with acute psychosis, mania, and homicial intent who had those symptoms as the direct result of steroids. Some types of Steroids can lead to severe psychiatric symptoms and they certainly are a possible cause of this tragedy.

That was my understanding and the basis for the comment I made in my first post last night. Obviously, we don't know yet what or why, but this crossed my mind instantly.

[Desmond]

I think the general consensus starting to leak out is that Benoit was a super intense, private individual. Lets not forget that he left his first family high and dry while stealing away another mans wife, so he isn't exactly a saint. While that obviously doesnt suggest that he would do something like this, it does show that he wasn't the "great" guy alot of people like to think he was.

[BYU 14]

there's a lot going on in the world, in case you didn't know, that would sicken you if you ever took the time to step out of your cacoon. i can't tell people how to feel about things, but it certainly sounds like some people here are punching walls, looking up to the sky and screaming "whyyyyy Chris? whyyyyyy?".

this is like hearing 2 things have died - your next door neighbor's dog and a small child who got run over by a car 2 towns over from you, and you cry more over the dog dying cuz you've known it longer and it often entertained you instead of feeling bad for the baby cuz you never knew it and it happened further away from you.


Cacoon? I think I have a good grasp of all the sick shit that goes on in the World, which is why so many of us take pleasure in the mindless, simple things that entertain us. Like Wrestling and teaching our Dogs to fetch Slippers and do tricks.

I see what you are saying about the reactions, but again, if it hits someone like that, then so be it, it's their emotions and I respect them.

[molson]

It looks like they're going to try to do the ECW TV show and Smackdown taping tonight, as scheduled. No tributes, no angles, just matches

From Meltzer:

"The lack of an understandable explanation to the circumstances of the death of Chris, Nancy and Daniel Benoit has left virtually the entire wrestling community reeling.

Within WWE, the obvious questions and lack of answers are no different from fans and most of his long-time friends.

Vince McMahon was the inspiring general both to the wrestlers as well as the office staff all day yesterday. He held it together and was a rock of strength for much of the talent, which because of their admiration and in many cases love for Benoit, were saddened, perplexed and having an incredibly difficult time dealing with it.

Vince made the decision to run Smackdown and ECW tapings tonight without any angles or backstage storylines. The show will consist of straight wrestling matches and like last night, the original shows were scrapped. The attempt to put together a show was difficult because the crew and creative staff were said to be both emotionally and physically wrecked after yesterday.

The belief is they will brief viewers on what happened early in the show, and then product two low key shows of nothing but matches.

[SirFozzie]

They've pretty much removed Benoit completely off WWE.COM and the ShopZone, no merchandise, taking him off matchlists and everything

[SirFozzie]

Oh, I hear that Cowherd Jackass is at it again, btw

[Ben E Lou]

More from the AJC...

Superstar wrestler Chris Benoit and his wife went through a period of turbulence early in their marriage that included her claiming domestic abuse and filing for divorce, court records show.

....

The couple, who had lived together since 1997 and were married in 2000, had separated when Nancy Benoit, a wrestling manager who worked under the stage name "Woman," filed for divorce in May 2003.

In the accompanying petition for protection from domestic abuse, Nancy Benoit, 43, claimed she was intimidated by threats of violence from her 40-year-old, 5-foot-10, 220-pound husband, who was known as the "Canadian Crippler."


Benoit, the petition said, "lost his temper and threatened to strike the petitioner and cause extensive damage to the home and personal belongings of the parties, including furniture and furnishings. Petitioner is in reasonable fear for petitioner's own safety and that of the minor child."


In another count, she claimed Benoit had destroyed furniture in the home.
On May 12, 2003, the same day the divorce and protective order petitions were submitted, a judge issued a restraining order against the wrestler and barred him from the family home in Peachtree City.


On Aug. 19, 2003, Nancy Benoit filed to have the divorce and protective petitions dismissed, and both were.

[Ksyrup]

Damn, he actually lived in PTC at some point! Huh. I guess that's about as close a connection as I have to this whole story.

[Coffee Warlord]

CNN header: A law enforcement official close to the investigation tells The Associated Press that pro wrestler Chris Benoit strangled his wife and smothered his son before hanging himself in his weight room.

[Ksyrup]

I hate to say this, but...what's so "bizarre" about that?

[Coffee Warlord]

Well, there's zero details other than that (on CNN at least). It could be totally wrong, and/or could have some screwy side notes we don't know.

[stevew]

I think it was Bizarre how he killed her one day, then possibly killed his son the next day, and then waited another day before taking his own life.

[Ksyrup]

I think it was Bizarre how he killed her one day, then possibly killed his son the next day, and then waited another day before taking his own life.

Meh. We've already come up with a perfectly plausible explanation for that. Not really "bizarre" in that sense - outside of the fact that the entire act occurred at all, of course.

[stevew]

Supposedly he was watching the PPV with his son and texting people with his wife dead upstairs....that's bizarre.

[MikeVic]

Supposedly he was watching the PPV with his son and texting people with his wife dead upstairs....that's bizarre.

What the. How can they figure that out?

[stevew]

From TMZ.com


Quote:
TMZ has learned more about the deaths of WWE wrestling superstar Chris Benoit, his wife and son -- and the information is extremely disturbing.

Several Atlanta-based law enforcement sources have told TMZ Benoit may have strangled his wife on Saturday, then smothered his son in his bed a day later. Investigators refuse to officially comment, pending final confirmation by the coroner on the cause and time of the deaths.

One source told TMZ that Benoit was texting friends during Sunday's WWE "Vengeance" Pay-Per-View program -- possibly watching the show with his son, who may have been alive at the time.

According to sources, Benoit then hanged himself Monday in a weight room inside the family home.

A police investigation is ongoing.

[molson]

I hate to say this, but...what's so "bizarre" about that?

Nothing at all. The "tease" though, is that WWE.com has reported all of that, but then added, to paraphase "we have more information, but have been asked not to disclose anything else."

[Jas_lov]

The text messages Benoit sent to friends were apparently "disturbing" so maybe that's part of this being bizzare. Maybe the wife was having an affair so he snapped and killed her, but killing the seven year old son is kind of bizzare to me.

[MikeVic]

I wonder what the text messages could have been. And whether someone could have done something to stop the kid's death?

[Fidatelo]

A guy around the office is saying that he read the following scenario:

Chris gets a call from Nancy on saturday to come home, that something horrible has happened. He comes home to find that she has killed the son (possibly accidentally), and snaps and kills her. Then he sits around for a couple days and eventually kills himself.

I'll see if I can find a source.

EDIT: Sounds like his source is some friend on MSN that read it in an Edmonton newspaper. So the credibility of the above story is pretty low I'm thinking.

[Jas_lov]

They're also investigating whether steroids were a factor. I wonder if we'll see major long term changes in wwe as a result of this besides the obvious drop of the mcmahon death angle. Possibly a major crackdown on steroid use if they were involved, a less rigorous schedule for the wrestlers to give them more time to rest, etc.


PWTorch.com has learned that one major media entity has received an email purporting to be from a friend of the Chris Benoit extended family saying that Benoit accidentally killed his wife in a domestic argument, then panicked and killed his son later so his son could be with his mother rather than grow up without a mom and knowing his father as a murderer.

[molson]

A guy around the office is saying that he read the following scenario:

Chris gets a call from Nancy on saturday to come home, that something horrible has happened. He comes home to find that she has killed the son (possibly accidentally), and snaps and kills her. Then he sits around for a couple days and eventually kills himself.

I'll see if I can find a source.

I think that's one of the "Benot fans in denial" scenerios.

[MikeVic]

They're also investigating whether steroids were a factor. I wonder if we'll see major long term changes in wwe as a result of this besides the obvious drop of the mcmahon death angle. Possibly a major crackdown on steroid use if they were involved, a less rigorous schedule for the wrestlers to give them more time to rest, etc.


PWTorch.com has learned that one major media entity has received an email purporting to be from a friend of the Chris Benoit extended family saying that Benoit accidentally killed his wife in a domestic argument, then panicked and killed his son later so his son could be with his mother rather than grow up without a mom and knowing his father as a murderer.

And then I guess his reasoning would be to kill himself so that he's the furthest away possible from both of them in the afterlife?

[Huckleberry]

Strangling your wife and especially smothering your son are "bizarre" acts to me. More so than killing them by gunshot or knife. Strangulation and smothering are very personal methods of murder. To be that close to someone you ostensibly love and to keep your hands on them until the last breath of life is gone is somehow even creepier than shooting them.

It's akin to Andrea Yates. It takes a special kind of crazy to drown your children in a bathtub. Same thing here, IMO.

[MikeVic]

Strangling your wife and especially smothering your son are "bizarre" acts to me. More so than killing them by gunshot or knife. Strangulation and smothering are very personal methods of murder. To be that close to someone you ostensibly love and to keep your hands on them until the last breath of life is gone is somehow even creepier than shooting them.

It's akin to Andrea Yates. It takes a special kind of crazy to drown your children in a bathtub. Same thing here, IMO.

Yeah I agree. You'd think a parent's or spouse's instinct would be to help their child/spouse if they're struggling or hurt in some way. With a gunshot, it could just be one shot. With strangling/choking, you have to go through with it for more than a couple seconds.

[BrianD]

And then I guess his reasoning would be to kill himself so that he's the furthest away possible from both of them in the afterlife?

Do you really think logic and reason are still in play during a murder-suicide?

[MikeVic]

Do you really think logic and reason are still in play during a murder-suicide?

Not anything that makes sense, no. I was just going by if he killed his son so that the son is in heaven with mom, he could have killed himself to eliminate the possibility of going to heaven (if you believe in that a suicide is an unforgivable sin).

[molson]

There's a press conference scheduled for 3

[Ryche]

Fit of rage, kills wife.
Realizes his son will be without parents as he will be in jail, kills son.
Can't live with what he has done, kills himself.

That's the only 'logic' I can see for the situation.

[Warhammer]

Fit of rage, kills wife.
Realizes his son will be without parents as he will be in jail, kills son.
Can't live with what he has done, kills himself.

That's the only 'logic' I can see for the situation.

This actually make a bunch of sense to me... :(

[darkenigma510]

I think I understand where you're coming from with this comment. There's this strange line between fake sport and legit entertainment that has me scratching my head as well, since it's hard to see where or - in the case of some people, like the "IT'S REAL TO ME DAMMIT!" guy - if at all, the line is drawn.

A good example of this is found in the articles being run today about this horrible situation. In describing Benoit, there's this:

"He was a former world heavyweight champion, Intercontinental champion and held several tag-team titles over his career."

Now, I have no doubt those things are factually accurate, but it strikes me as beyond bizarre that they would be cited as though they were some legitimate titles he "won" during his wrestling career. It is so matter-of-fact that you might as well be describing a boxing title or MVP award or something like that, when in reality, he was given those titles based solely on the storylines of the shows he was on. Unless I'm completely missing something.

This would be like describing a soap opera actor who died as having been President of XYZ Megacorp and having spent 3 years on an uncharted island with amnesia after his ex-wife slept with his brother, poisoned him, and paid pirates to carry him away. It's the strange blurring of the facts with fantasy that has me scratching my head.

I hope that makes sense. I'm not trying to put anyone down, and it's not really a comment on wrestling fans in general, since what I'm pointing out even extends to the media, apparently.

Wrestling is something that is unique. It is a fake sport that the audience is supposed to suspend their disbelief and believe is real. The lines between reality and entertainment in wrestling have always been blurred. This is why the Mcmahon angle was seen by some as crass: because as an audience of wrestling, you're supposed to believe McMahon is dead, even though we absolutely know he is not. He was given the same treatment in 'death" that other people, who actually died, received (e.g. ten bell salute).

The lines between reality and entertainment in wrestling are ALWAYS blurred, whether they are in the ring or out of it. There is little that separates Chris Benoit, the Champion to Chris Benoit, the man. We, as wrestling fans, intrisinically view them as the same, although in the back of our heads we do realize that it isn't so. But for those who appreciate wrestling, part of the immersion factor is to let the "reality" of what happens in the ring and on our TV screen, jump out past the fourth wall.

[Ksyrup]

PWTorch.com has learned that one major media entity has received an email purporting to be from a friend of the Chris Benoit extended family saying that Benoit accidentally killed his wife in a domestic argument, then panicked and killed his son later so his son could be with his mother rather than grow up without a mom and knowing his father as a murderer.

This is exactly the scenario a couple of us posited yesterday. Now, what I'm about to say is all within the relative range of "reasonableness" that only extends within the bounds of murder (which isn't "reasonable" in any sense, of course), but...I think smothering is a type of murder/death that often occurs in a family setting, either with children or the elderly. There is no need for anger or rage, as would be required of a gunshot or beating death. I can imagine - as sick as it may seem - for him to be crying while he's killing the kid, being in such a mental/emotional state that he believes what he is doing is in his child's best interests and the only way to resolve the issue, having (a) accidentally killed the mother, and (b) decided that he must end his own life to escape the consequences of what has happened.

Believe me, this whole thing is sickening and terrible, but it does not shock me and isn't really all that bizarre. Perhaps I've watched too many episodes of Notorious to be shocked by murder details anymore.

[JHandley]

Fit of rage, kills wife.
Realizes his son will be without parents as he will be in jail, kills son.
Can't live with what he has done, kills himself.

That's the only 'logic' I can see for the situation.

Doesn't he have 2 other kids? That's the part of the 'logic' that doesn't make sense to me when people try to apply a theory to why he killed his son.

Obviously trying to apply logic to an unlogical situation isn't going to work, and the first thing people try to figure out is the why's of what happened. Unless there's a suicide note, which wouldn't be unreasonable to expect given the nature of all the deaths, I just can't get there that he killed the son out of love.

[molson]

I wouldn't call strangulation an "accidental" death, even if it was by Benoit's hands and he didn't intend to kill her.

Domestic batterors often say stuff like "things just got out of hand", etc, so maybe that's the source of this info - Benoit rationalizing via text message.

[Jas_lov]

Fit of rage, kills wife.
Realizes his son will be without parents as he will be in jail, kills son.
Can't live with what he has done, kills himself.

That's the only 'logic' I can see for the situation.

Yeah this makes sense. The motive behind it is possibly she had an affair or more likely threated to leave him and take the son with her since we know they were having marital problems. There had to be some reason for him to just snap like that.

[ThunderingHERD]

Current research on the behavioral effects of steroid use find that significant psychosis/manic episodes/criminal-level aggression only occur in a very(very) tiny percent of steroid users, and this data is only observational (i.e., there's no way to pinpoint steroids as a cause of the behavior). In long-term controlled studies increased aggression is a common symptom (particularly domestic violence), but certainly not to this level. I find it hard to believe that he would suddenly snap as a result of steroid use--not only snap in a sudden fit of violence, but behave in such a deranged manner for at least a manner of days (wtf kind of excuse is "I gotta go, my wife's coughing up blood" after you've strangled her?)

I'm guessing.... PCP binge.

edit: or Meth

[Ksyrup]

Doesn't he have 2 other kids? That's the part of the 'logic' that doesn't make sense to me when people try to apply a theory to why he killed his son.

Those other kids presumably still have their mother. In this situation, both parents are gone (one dead, the other in jail at best), and that doesn't even account for the emotional/psychological damage that might have occurred if he saw/heard what happened to his mom and/or saw her dead in the time between her death and his. Again, the rationalization, as bizarre as it may seem (not to mention cowardly, etc.), makes a certain amount of sense in that panicky, emotional/mental state he must have been in.

He's obviously had violent outbursts before, and this time he couldn't control himself until she was dead. After he "snapped back" from the rage, he was obviously remorseful/emotional and likely thought about the likely scenarios to come from all of this. Once he decided to end his own life, he rationalized a reason to kill his son to "save" him.

[JHandley]

Ok, I can see that. Probably goes without saying that none of it is going to make any real sense, I just wasn't sure why he would only want to "save" one of his kids.


It would just seem to me that if he was doing it for what he thought to be unselfish reasons, he'd go through it for all of them. Strangualtion takes time, smothering takes time, hanging takes a long time. The first act might have come from a fit of rage, but the rest were thought out. Flawed as that thinking is, there's still some thought put into it.

[Ksyrup]

I definitely think there was a ton of thought - agonizing thought - put into it what occurred after the wife died. Not that I have any sympathy for him, but I can only imagine what was going through his mind at that point. And I'm sure it was along the lines of knowing he'd be in jail for the rest of his life, his son would grow up without a mother and father, knowing his father killed his mother and possibly having seen it, deciding he'd rather die than live through the press and trial and all of that, etc., and then coming up with a tortured reason that he needed to take his kid's life. I suspect that's why it took some time for it to all play out. He was wrestling (no pun intended) with what to do, how to do it, and all of that.

[Ben E Lou]

Press conference live feed: http://www.wsbtv.com/video/13572145/index.html

[Telle]

Could have even been that the kid found mom's body and started to freak out.. which then led Benoit to try to quiet him.. which then went too far.

[MikeVic]

I'm sure his other two kids were not even in the same state at the time? I thought I read somewhere... so he wouldn't be able to kill them too. Unless he flew there or something, but then that's going so far.

[MikeVic]

Press conference live feed: http://www.wsbtv.com/video/13572145/index.html

Thanks. Nothing is going on though, eh?

[Eaglesfan27]

Current research on the behavioral effects of steroid use find that significant psychosis/manic episodes/criminal-level aggression only occur in a very(very) tiny percent of steroid users, and this data is only observational (i.e., there's no way to pinpoint steroids as a cause of the behavior). In long-term controlled studies increased aggression is a common symptom (particularly domestic violence), but certainly not to this level. I find it hard to believe that he would suddenly snap as a result of steroid use--not only snap in a sudden fit of violence, but behave in such a deranged manner for at least a manner of days (wtf kind of excuse is "I gotta go, my wife's coughing up blood" after you've strangled her?)

I'm guessing.... PCP binge.

edit: or Meth

I'd love to see this research re: the lack of psychosis and mania in Steroid abusers. You have any citations for me to check out?

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola -

Remember that if he was doing Steroids, I'm sure he was doing much more than is usually prescribed by doctors. The only time I ever felt in real danger on my job was when a huge body builder who was manic from steroids actually got his hands on me and was trying to hurt me because I wouldn't let him leave the hospital. Fortunately, security took him down a second later.

[RedKingGold]

Press conference live feed: http://www.wsbtv.com/video/13572145/index.html

I can't watch the feed from work. Would anyone be willing to post the general gist of what was said?

[MikeVic]

It's on right now.

[MikeVic]

dola,

Umm, doesn't seem like anything new yet. No suicide note though.

[SnDvls]

I can't watch the feed from work. Would anyone be willing to post the general gist of what was said?

Ditto

[Eaglesfan27]

Did I just hear that right? Anabolic Steroids were found in the home?

[MikeVic]

One co-worker received a text message, but several hours after it was sent. And they don't want to go into the contents yet.

[MikeVic]

Did I just hear that right? Anabolic Steroids were found in the home?

The voice cut out when he said legal or illegal... so i don't know which. :(

[Flasch186]

she was found with her ankles and wrists bound....bibles found by each body (hers and sons)

what a schmuck

[MikeVic]

All three were dead by the end of Saturday they believe... so no PPV watching I guess?

[molson]

she was found with her ankles and wrists bound....bibles found by each body (hers and sons)

what a schmuck

So much for the "accident" rumor.

The WWE has to erase him from their history.

[MikeVic]

Steroids were definitely found. But they said a toxicology report will take LONGER than two weeks.

[MikeVic]

And that's it for now.

[gstelmack]

This is the thing about judging these public figures based on their public appearance: you don't know what kind of person they really are.

In a sidestep / sort-of related / different scale / what-the-heck, I remember the reaction around here when Steve Chiasson was killed in a car wreck. All the reports about what a nice guy he was, great role model, hardworking player, etc. Except that he ran his truck off the road while driving home drunk from a party. We're lucky it was just him and he didn't take a bunch of others with him. Driving drunk is not a symptom of a "great guy", and I got tired of no one talking about how stupid he was, just how "great" he was.

[Young Drachma]

Wow. I just read what happened. Crazy, crazy, crazy.

[molson]

So he's a family-killer, but at least he loves Jesus.

[ThunderingHERD]

I'd love to see this research re: the lack of psychosis and mania in Steroid abusers. You have any citations for me to check out?

Trenton, Adam J.; Currier, Glenn W.. CNS Drugs, 2005, Vol. 19 Issue 7, p571-595, 25p

That seems to be the most recent, relevant review.

[Toddzilla]

I started to watch RAW last night unaware anything had transpired and was floored somewhat learning that Benoit had died. Not completely surprised since pro-wrestlers seem to die all the time at a young age - somewhat coincidentally a contemporary of Benoit's in Stampede Wrestling, Biff Wellington, died over the weekend at the age of 42. So, I taped the show on my DVR since I was sure I couldn't watch the tribute show live.

Benoit was my favorite wrestler since R.S.P-W turned me onto him back in the early 90s - Herb Kunze would not stop talking about how awesome he was.

I got home from work a little while ago and tried to watch, but knowing what we know now, listening to the wrestlers describe his as a "family man" and a "great father" I had to turn it off. I can't dispute the fact that he may have been a good father at some point, but it all means to me that something very very wrong must have happened to Benoit for him to take the lives of his kid, his wife, and then himself. A complete mental breakdown? Maybe. Half of me is sad and wants to say goodbye, and the other half is pissed and wants to say good riddance.

[molson]

The other tidbit is it is believed Nancy died Friday, and Daniel Saturday. I've only heard he missed shows Saturday and Sunday. Does anyone know if there was a house show somewhere Friday that he may have participated in (perhaps even after the murder?)

[Eaglesfan27]

Trenton, Adam J.; Currier, Glenn W.. CNS Drugs, 2005, Vol. 19 Issue 7, p571-595, 25p

That seems to be the most recent, relevant review.


Thanks, I have that journal at home. I just don't read all of the editions. I'll check it out tonight. Everything else I've read over the years has pointed to steroids in high quantities being a significant risk for causing mania, psychosis, and depression.

Edit: I'm thinking of CNS Spectrum. I'll have to track down this article.

[MikeVic]

I believe it was prescription steroids (legal)?

[Maple Leafs]

Benoit was my favorite wrestler since R.S.P-W turned me onto him back in the early 90s - Herb Kunze would not stop talking about how awesome he was.
Man, I remember RSPW. We didn't get ECW or even much WCW in Canada so I had no idea who this BENOIT~! guy was that everyone kept going on about.

[ThunderingHERD]

Thanks, I have that journal at home. I just don't read all of the editions. I'll check it out tonight. Everything else I've read over the years has pointed to steroids in high quantities being a significant risk for causing mania, psychosis, and depression.

No problem. I didn't mean to suggest that steroids don't increase risk for depression, etc--I only meant that there is certainly not enough evidence to suggest that they can produce behavioral disturbances of this magnitude.

[Ksyrup]

So much for the "accident" rumor.

Yep. Seems he must have planned this to some degree. The accidental death/aftermath makes much more sense, but now we may never know why it happened unless there's something in those text messages. But if there is something that explicit, you'd think someone would have acted quicker than they did. I'm sure it's going to end up being something cryptic that seemed odd at the time but nothing that would suggest an emergency situation.

[duckman]

From 411 Mania:

-The lead investigator began the press conference. He says that yesterday they came to the home after receiving a call for a welfare check on his home. He missed some out of state work and they became concerned and asked for the check. Police found the bodies of Chris Benoit, Nancy and Daniel. They were all deceased. Autopsy's were performed and it has been ruled a double homicide/suicide.

-They feel Friday he murdered his wife via asphyxiation and later the weekend the same for Daniel. Sunday morning is when they feel he hung himself in the basement area. They are waiting on toxicology reports, which could take up to 2 weeks.

-There were no notes left that they have found. The son was in his bed. Chris Benoit has been arrested for DUI in the county, but not for domestic abuse. They have not confirmed the allegations of abuse or the reported divorce attempt.

-They found legal prescriptions in the residence. There were steroids.

-There is no motive as of now with the evidence that they have.

-They say he sent text messages, but they will not comment on the contents of such.

-They will not speculate if steroids had anything to do with the death or his state of mind.

-It appears he hung himself within 24 hours of killing his son.

-They reiterate the time of 2-weeks on toxicology results.

The DA joins the conference. He has no statement prepared, but he takes questions.

-The bizarre circumstances are that in a community like this, this is what is odd. A 7-year old is dead, and we may never understand why. The timing is what he feels is bizarre. But they have not verified all of the times.

-There was a bible beside each of the victims (Nancy and Daniel).

-Nancy was bound by her hands and feet, as well as some blood under her head. She was wrapped in a towel.

-No signs of struggle with the son.

-He says that in 2003 there was an order of protection brought against Benoit, but he has not seen all of the paper work.

-He is baffled as to why someone would kill a 7-year old.

-The families have been contacted.

-He has had no communication with the WWE.

-They reiterate that Nancy died Friday, Daniel early Saturday and Chris sometime late Saturday/early Sunday.

-Benoit hung himself with the cord from his weight machines.

-They need to get all of the toxicology results in to see if things match up. 2-weeks, maybe longer.

-If anything else comes up, they will come out and re-brief the media

[Ksyrup]

Damn the media has no shame - CNN headline says "wrestler's house of death."

How fucking over the top dramatic and sensationalistic that is.

[molson]

Damn the media has no shame - CNN headline says "wrestler's house of death."

How fucking over the top dramatic and sensationalistic that is.

It is, but I'm not sure who we're supossed to be feeling sorry for at this point (who might be affected by stuff like that). His other kids probably hated him before all this.

So I say, sensationalize away.

[Ksyrup]

It really has nothing to do with the specific case, it's just utter crap to be putting that kind of headline on anything like this. I'm not "affected" by this case, but it still bothers me in the abstract.

[Joe Canadian]

As expected this will be spun into a steroids story... even though they were legal, and more than likely were perscribed to him for recovering from his neck injury.

[BrianD]

It is, but I'm not sure who we're supossed to be feeling sorry for at this point (who might be affected by stuff like that). His other kids probably hated him before all this.

So I say, sensationalize away.

I don't get the way most of this thread has gone. First, Chris was some great hero would people couldn't say enough about. They when the details came out Chris was some horrible excuse for a person who needs to be slammed all over the place.

Why can't he just be a normal human, full of human frailties and failings, who ended up going off the deep end? Wrestling and lots of adoring fans put him into the spotlight, but he is the same as the rest of us. We don't know what pushed him over the edge, but he is neither the hero nor devil people try to make him out as.

[molson]

I don't get the way most of this thread has gone. First, Chris was some great hero would people couldn't say enough about. They when the details came out Chris was some horrible excuse for a person who needs to be slammed all over the place.

Why can't he just be a normal human, full of human frailties and failings, who ended up going off the deep end? Wrestling and lots of adoring fans put him into the spotlight, but he is the same as the rest of us. We don't know what pushed him over the edge, but he is neither the hero nor devil people try to make him out as.

When you find out someone's killed their family, in an apparent pre-meditated fashion, one's opinion of them can reasonbly be affected, can't it?

I never considered him a hero, but devil isn't too far off.

[ThunderingHERD]

Edit: I'm thinking of CNS Spectrum. I'll have to track down this article.

Don't you work for a university? We have a subscription to it through ebsco here.

[Toddzilla]

Why can't he just be a normal human, full of human frailties and failings, who ended up going off the deep end? Wrestling and lots of adoring fans put him into the spotlight, but he is the same as the rest of us. We don't know what pushed him over the edge, but he is neither the hero nor devil people try to make him out as.Um, no, he fucking killed a 7-year old child. He isn't a *normal* human being, and he is *not* the same as the rest of us. He deserves all the scorn that can be placed upon him,

[Eaglesfan27]

Don't you work for a university? We have a subscription to it through ebsco here.

No, I left the university a year ago. I miss the teaching the most, but the library and those resources are a close second.

[BrianD]

Um, no, he fucking killed a 7-year old child. He isn't a *normal* human being, and he is *not* the same as the rest of us. He deserves all the scorn that can be placed upon him,

"There, but for the grace of God, go I".

The man clearly had some problems. You don't kill anyone, especially a kid, without having a major reason or a major problem. It certainly isn't good what he did, but I'm willing to wait until more of the story comes out before completely villifying him.

[molson]

"There, but for the grace of God, go I".

The man clearly had some problems. You don't kill anyone, especially a kid, without having a major reason or a major problem. It certainly isn't good what he did, but I'm willing to wait until more of the story comes out before completely villifying him.

You could say that about anyone who commits any bad deed. Some of them have mental issues, some of them have parent issues, or drug issues, or they're just mean. Everyone's who they are. And who Benoit is, is a child murderer.

[SnDvls]

I don't get the way most of this thread has gone. First, Chris was some great hero would people couldn't say enough about. They when the details came out Chris was some horrible excuse for a person who needs to be slammed all over the place.

Why can't he just be a normal human, full of human frailties and failings, who ended up going off the deep end? Wrestling and lots of adoring fans put him into the spotlight, but he is the same as the rest of us. We don't know what pushed him over the edge, but he is neither the hero nor devil people try to make him out as.

I think you might be bluring the lines some too. He can still be a hero to some in the wrestling ring and be everyother horrible thing outside of it as well can't he?

[SnDvls]

dola, not saying that is how I feel either, just that I could see how some could

[BrianD]

You could say that about anyone who commits any bad deed. Some of them have mental issues, some of them have parent issues, or drug issues, or they're just mean. Everyone's who they are. And who Benoit is, is a child murderer.

He is, and it is very sad. I would still see a big difference between killing a kid who walked into a drug deal and one that got killed through some actions of a desperate and depressed father. It doesn't really matter to the kid who is dead either way, but we can still go from an asshole father to a tragic situation.

[BrianD]

I think you might be bluring the lines some too. He can still be a hero to some in the wrestling ring and be everyother horrible thing outside of it as well can't he?

Not according to what we have seen so far in this thread.

[SirFozzie]

This just gets stranger and stranger..

The Asst. DA (on Headline news) just said there were needle marks in Daniel's arm and they think he had been taking growth hormone for "some time."

Per several people over at DVDVR.

[ThunderingHERD]

Wow. World class crazy.

[molson]

Not according to what we have seen so far in this thread.

He's a murderer AND a good wrestler. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But I'd imagine many won't have the same feeling as they used to watching an old Benoit match.

[MikeVic]

What else will be uncovered here? Did Benoit have a dog-fighting ring in the back too? They mentioned two german shepherds in the yard.

Sorry, just trying to lighten the thread up. :) I like some attempted humour sprinkeld with crazy tragedy and seriousness...

[oliegirl]

What else will be uncovered here? Did Benoit have a dog-fighting ring in the back too? They mentioned two german shepherds in the yard.

Sorry, just trying to lighten the thread up. :) I like some attempted humour sprinkeld with crazy tragedy and seriousness...


I think the fact that MikeVic made the dog fighting comment is funnier than the actual comment itself! ;)

[BrianD]

He's a murderer AND a good wrestler. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But I'd imagine many won't have the same feeling as they used to watching an old Benoit match.

I'm sure that is true. He may turn out to be an evil murdering bastard, or he may turn out to be a tragic person who people wish would have put the suicide before the murder.

[Joe Canadian]

This just gets stranger and stranger..

The Asst. DA (on Headline news) just said there were needle marks in Daniel's arm and they think he had been taking growth hormone for "some time."

Per several people over at DVDVR.

So? Growth hormone is given to children all the time for any number of reasons.

[ThunderingHERD]

So? Growth hormone is given to children all the time for any number of reasons.

Like when their father is a mentally ill narcissist.

[Joe Canadian]

Like when their father is a mentally ill narcissist.

No, for medical reasons.

We don't even know anything about the chemical in Chris' system, and already people are making this into a steroid issue. The steroids in his house, AFAWK, were perscribed LEGALLY.

[molson]

The steroids in his house, AFAWK, were perscribed LEGALLY.

I think that's a distinction without a difference. All wrestlers have injuries, I don't imagine it's difficult to get perscriptions. It's their livlihood, they all know where to go to get what they need. When that cnnsi.com article came out about Orton, Angle, Mysterio, etc. using steroids, they were all by perscriptions.

But I agree that the growth hormone on the kid is probably a non-issue.

[ThunderingHERD]

Maybe... but why would the ADA bring it up unless he had reason to believe that the growth hormone wasn't being administered for legitimate purposes?

[JonInMiddleGA]

We don't even know anything about the chemical in Chris' system, and already people are making this into a steroid issue.

... as was predicted several pages back in the thread.

[JonInMiddleGA]

but why would the ADA bring it up unless he had reason to believe that the growth hormone wasn't being administered for legitimate purposes?

Clearly you're overestimating the intellect of the average DA/ADA, at least in this part of the country. You might very well be 100% spot on, but you're taking an unreasonably large huge leap of faith getting there with that reasoning.

And, does the name Mike Nifong ring any bells?

And, before anybody even wonders, that's not a bit of denial on my part, it's strictly a commentary on the quality of people in the average prosecutors office in Georgia.

[ThunderingHERD]

Clearly you're overestimating the intellect of the average DA/ADA, at least in this part of the country. You might very well be 100% spot on, but you're taking an unreasonably large huge leap of faith getting there with that reasoning.

And, does the name Mike Nifong ring any bells?

And, before anybody even wonders, that's not a bit of denial on my part, it's strictly a commentary on the quality of people in the average prosecutors office in Georgia.


That did cross my mind, but it's not as if there's a case to be made against anyone here--athough, I suppose they could go after a doctor or two for a living target if they play the steroid angle.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That did cross my mind, but it's not as if there's a case to be made against anyone here

Again though, you have to remember that typically you're not talking about the sharpest knives in the drawer. If so, your logic applies, but most often around here you aren't.

[Ryan S]

This just gets stranger and stranger..

The Asst. DA (on Headline news) just said there were needle marks in Daniel's arm and they think he had been taking growth hormone for "some time."

Per several people over at DVDVR.

I know that some small kids are given growth hormones to help them reach average height. Could that be what has happened in this case, or does this sound like something different.

[Jas_lov]

WARNING SIGNS THAT SOMETHING WAS WRONG WITH CHRIS BENOIT
By: Bob Ryder
6/26/2007 5:08:55 PM

In speaking with close friends and confidants of Chris Benoit contacted this afternoon, apparently there were some warning signs that something was wrong with Benoit.

Some of the information learned by 1Wrestling.com by colleagues and friends that did not want to be quoted:

"This wasn't roid rage, this was insanity. Roid rage doesn't last for 48 hours. There were signs that something was wrong. Stories have emerged that a year ago he became paranoid and believed he was being followed. He wouldn't let Nancy leave the house because he believed someone was out to get them."

"Chris hated religion. He didn't believe in it. I cannot comprehend him putting bibles by the bodies. I am shocked."

In addition, 1Wrestling has learned that sources close to Nancy are reporting that she had a safety deposit box with evidence of past rages and that authorities should check the box if anything ever happened to her."

[ThunderingHERD]

Hey, schizophrenia--my specialty. A little late in a male's life for onset, but possible.

[Ben E Lou]

Again though, you have to remember that typically you're not talking about the sharpest knives in the drawer. If so, your logic applies, but most often around here you aren't.

Plus, you've got an assistant DA who's certainly enjoying getting his name in the paper and even on CNN.

[TLK]

McMahon to Apologize for Benoit Tribute

By James Hibberd (jhibberd@tvweek.com)
WWE Chairman Vince McMahon will apologize for the three-hour USA Network tribute to pro wrestler Chris Benoit that aired Monday night, sources said.

The WWE and USA Network have received complaints about the tribute, which was hastily produced after Mr. Benoit, his wife and their son were found dead in their Georgia home Monday afternoon.

Authorities said Tuesday that Mr. Benoit strangled his wife and suffocated his son, then took his own life. But WWE and network officials were unaware of the circumstances of Mr. Benoit’s death when the tribute was assembled, sources said.
The WWE canceled its regularly scheduled “Monday Night RAW” event on USA Network Monday night and aired the tribute in its place.

Mr. McMahon will address wrestling fans tonight on Sci Fi Channel’s live Extreme Championship Wrestling event. He also plans to address speculation that Mr. Benoit’s actions were the result of steroid use.

The WWE plans to resume its regular wrestling telecasts, which air on USA Network, Sci Fi Channel and the CW. http://tvweek.com/news/2007/06/mcmahon_to_apologize_for_benoi.php

[rowech]

I guess I have a question...If he's been taking steroids his whole career (which I'm 98% sure he has) why does something like this happen now? Why not prior if it's this whole 'roid range idea.

[Buccaneer]

Interesting discussion today, I found the different viewpoints enlightening. I think there is something to the "celebrity death" angle, for the same emotions that makes fans of celebrities in the first place, if that makes sense.

I guess part of my reaction is my growing bias is the allure of pro wrestling. It is not because it is scripted for when I watched this back in the early 1970s, I had believed it was sort of like a game show. Nothing wrong with that. The allure that it seems to be based on steroids-infested freaks pretending to spout crass shit and then proceed to physically batter each other, well, I guess lots of people like that stuff.

My beef, as in the case of football as well, is what a player has to go through to in order achieve an ever increasing higher level of aggressiveness, meaness and violence - solely for the passive entertainment of fans. Somewhere along the line, there's got to be a real person instead of a persona built up by fans, handlers, PR flaks and the media.

[Maple Leafs]

My beef, as in the case of football as well, is what a player has to go through to in order achieve an ever increasing higher level of aggressiveness, meaness and violence - solely for the passive entertainment of fans. Somewhere along the line, there's got to be a real person instead of a persona built up by fans, handlers, PR flaks and the media.
I think more and more fans are coming to realize that this is a dirty industry that eats its own. The wrestlers are sent out until they either walk away (rare), or are destroyed and discarded. Some fans have stopped watching over this, but not enough to make an impact. Maybe this is the tipping point.

[TroyF]

I hate wrestling and really hate McMahon. . . but why the hell should he apologize for the tribute? He did what he did with the facts on hand at the time. He didn't know the clown had strangled his family before killing himself or the facts around the incident. People are idiots for ripping him for that.

[Maple Leafs]

Reports now say the mysterious text message to Chavo was along the lines of "the doors are unlocked and the dogs have been fed". Not exactly the most sensational revelation, although perhaps an attempt to get somebody to come to the house and find the bodies.

[molson]

Should be a surreal show tonight. I'm curious to see how the fans react to things like Vince's apology.

[Senator]

Every guy in the ring is on roids. This seems to be a case of mental instability. I feel sorry for the victims, families, and the people who looked up to what he did for a living.

[molson]

Maybe the folks over at the DVD board are reading too much into it, but it sure seems like Regal thought something might be up during his video testimonial yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mv0u-nhv5o

[JonInMiddleGA]

The wrestlers are sent out until they either walk away (rare), or are destroyed and discarded.

Umm, there's a good number of retired/semi-retired wrestlers around who left on their own terms as much as anything else. Not entirely unscathed, but far from destroyed either.

Dean Malenko comes to mind from last night. Brock Lesnar walked away, so did Bill Goldberg. Further back just off the top of my head, Ted DiBiase, Ivan & Nikita Koloff, Bobby Eaton, Stan Lane, Robert Gibson, Mr. Wrestling II, Rick Steamboat, and if you want to go further back Jackie Fargo, Jerry Jarrett, Ted Allen (aka The Nightmare), etc etc etc.

Yes, there were the traveling deaths like JYD, the drug deaths from World Class and beyond, the heart/weight related deaths, and the cases like Jake Roberts or Tommy Rich who are still alive but seem to be a wreck as often as not. But there's also plenty of retired wrestlers/ex-wrestlers, etc still living their lives & many of them seem to be as satisfied with their status in life as anybody else from any other job.

[Eaglesfan27]

Hey, schizophrenia--my specialty. A little late in a male's life for onset, but possible.


Could be but my money would be on psychosis induced by Steroids or other drugs.

[RedKingGold]

Could be but my money would be on psychosis induced by Steroids or other drugs.

To me, this story sounds a lot like the tragic story of OT John Stryleczek (sp?) of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

He was an offensive tackle who had numerous concussions that are now being said to have caused bipolar, dementia, and insanity. It is the same thing that struck SS Andre Waters of Philadelphia.

Could it be that numerous concussions might have led to eventual mental health problems which caused this tragedy? Just more specualtion that makes more sense to me than "psychosis by steroids"

[Jas_lov]

From WWE.com WWE/Benoit Timeline

On Saturday, June 23, Chris Benoit was slated to appear at a WWE live event in Beaumont, Texas. That afternoon, Benoit contacted WWE to inform them that his wife and child were ill, and that he would not be able to attend the show.

WWE executives rebooked Benoit’s flight for the following morning, allowing Benoit to miss the Beaumont event making alternate arrangements for him to attend the pay-per-view event in Houston on Sunday.

WWE employees attempted to confirm with Benoit his travel plans but were unable to contact him.

Early Sunday morning, between 3:51 and 3:58 a.m., Benoit sent five text messages to co-workers:



Text Message 1 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:53am)- Chris Benoit’s cell phone
“My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane, Fayetteville Georgia. 30215”

Text Message 2 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:53am)- Chris Benoit’s cell phone
“The dogs are in the enclosed pool area. Garage side door is open”

Text Message 3 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:54am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
“My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane.
Fayetteville Georgia. 30215”

Text Message 4 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:55am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
“My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane.
Fayetteville Georgia. 30215"

Text Message 5 to one co-worker (sent 6/24 at 3:58am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
“My address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215”



Throughout the day on Sunday, WWE made numerous attempts to contact Benoit both at home and at local hospitals in the Atlanta area. As of 11:00 p.m., WWE officials were unable to establish contact with Chris Benoit.

At 12:30 p.m. on Monday, June 25, WWE officials were notified of the text messages sent to the co-workers the previous day. By 12:45 p.m., WWE had contacted Fayetteville County Sheriff’s office requesting they check on the Benoit family.

Fayetteville County Sheriffs office made contact with WWE at approximately 4:00 p.m. advising that they had entered the house of Chris Benoit and found three deceased bodies – an adult male, adult female and a male child. WWE was told that Benoit’s home was now considered a major crime scene.

The decision to cancel the live event scheduled in Corpus Christi that night was made between 4:00 and 5:00 p.m. In keeping with company policy, and with limited knowledge regarding facts of the case, WWE choose to air a memorial dedicated to the career of Chris Benoit. As facts emerged surrounding the case, all tributes to Chris Benoit were removed both on-air and on WWE.com.

[DeToxRox]

Was about to post this myself.

Talk about eerie messages.

[TroyF]

Every guy in the ring is on roids. This seems to be a case of mental instability. I feel sorry for the victims, families, and the people who looked up to what he did for a living.

We all react to things differently. Take two similar people and abuse them for two years and one may turn on you and kill you while the other one may kill themselves.

I don't think people should be saying that roids were the only reason he ended up killing himself and his family. I don't think it should be ruled out of hand that they had nothing to do with it because everyone else was on roids and they didn't kill their families.

Both sides do a disservice to the matter at hand. We need to find out if roids did play a part in this and if the answer is yes, how big of a part. I realize that's more difficult than it sounds and that we may never have 100% correct answers on this. But we have to try before we come to any conclusions.

[molson]

To me, this story sounds a lot like the tragic story of OT John Stryleczek (sp?) of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

He was an offensive tackle who had numerous concussions that are now being said to have caused bipolar, dementia, and insanity. It is the same thing that struck SS Andre Waters of Philadelphia.

Could it be that numerous concussions might have led to eventual mental health problems which caused this tragedy? Just more specualtion that makes more sense to me than "psychosis by steroids"

I'd buy that if he had been out of wrestling for a few years, like those guys were out of football. But Benoit was employed full time, on the road, and wrestling right up until this happened.

[Klinglerware]

I'd buy that if he had been out of wrestling for a few years, like those guys. But Benoit was employed full time, on the road, and wrestling right up until this happened.

On the other hand, he had been wrestling for more than 20 years. I don't know his medical history--did he have a track record for having multiple concussions? That appears to be a correlate for mental deterioration.

According to some of the stories posted, his coworkers had noticed a change in his mental state in the past year, so it is not as though the mental issues developed suddenly. Even if it did, that does not preclude anyone from functioning professionally for awhile. Andre Waters was a competent coach before his suicide (I believe he was around the same age, as well).

It's all speculation--we shall see if they ever do examine his brain tissue.

[General Mike]

To me, this story sounds a lot like the tragic story of OT John Stryleczek (sp?) of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

He was an offensive tackle who had numerous concussions that are now being said to have caused bipolar, dementia, and insanity. It is the same thing that struck SS Andre Waters of Philadelphia.

Could it be that numerous concussions might have led to eventual mental health problems which caused this tragedy? Just more specualtion that makes more sense to me than "psychosis by steroids"

It sounds like a reasonable hypothesis. No one knows how many concussions anyone has had, but I'm sure getting hit in the head with "steel" chairs and some of the other bumps he take do not help in regards to concussions.

[Buccaneer]

We all react to things differently. Take two similar people and abuse them for two years and one may turn on you and kill you while the other one may kill themselves.

I don't think people should be saying that roids were the only reason he ended up killing himself and his family. I don't think it should be ruled out of hand that they had nothing to do with it because everyone else was on roids and they didn't kill their families.

Both sides do a disservice to the matter at hand. We need to find out if roids did play a part in this and if the answer is yes, how big of a part. I realize that's more difficult than it sounds and that we may never have 100% correct answers on this. But we have to try before we come to any conclusions.

The sad thing about this is that as long as fans get their money's worth, they will keep on encouraging and supporting such destructive behavior. I am hopefull in remembering that boxing and track&field are shells of their former selves because they got so bad that it basically killed the sport. Cycling is getting close to that point, I think, and the NFL may get close if it and the fans keep themselves in denial.

[Groundhog]

Maybe the guy was just sick in the head?

[MikeVic]

Maybe the folks over at the DVD board are reading too much into it, but it sure seems like Regal thought something might be up during his video testimonial yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mv0u-nhv5o

The way he talks really makes it seem like he knew at that point...

[molson]

Benoit can type a text message pretty quickly.

[DeToxRox]

Associated Press - June 26, 2007 10:05 PM ET

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - A professional wrestler who killed himself and his family was a former customer of a company implicated in an upstate New York investigation of illegal steroid sales.

That's according to the Albany County District Attorney's Office, which is conducting the investigation here.

Authorities in Fayetteville, Georgia, say today that Chris Benoit strangled his wife, suffocated his 7-year-old son before hanging himself over the weekend.

Investigators found anabolic steroids in the house and want to know whether the muscular man was unhinged by the bodybuilding drugs, which can cause paranoia, depression and explosive outbursts known as "roid rage."

In Albany, the DA's office confirms the 40-year-old Benoit was a customer as recently as last year of the south Florida company MedXLife.

2 of its co-owners pleaded guilty to drug charges in Albany County in April, admitting they helped get prescriptions drugs in 2006 for customers in upstate New York who had no medical need for them. The pair testified Signature Pharmacy of Orlando filled the orders.

MedXLife, no longer taking orders, attracted customers through its Web site.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[WVUFAN]

I think I'm done with wrestling. This whole thing has me sick to my stomach.

[Maple Leafs]

There's a fair amount of speculation out there that Edge could walk away from the business soon. He was very close to Eddie and Benoit, he's still young, has lots of money, and a close friend (Christian) took a paycut to leave the WWE for the reduced schedule of TNA recently. Watching the last few seconds of his video and you can see it coming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeFH7BnBWek. I think he's one of the few guys who's had to do a video for Owen, Eddit and now Benoit.

It's not hard to connect the dots on what he should do, which is why it's going to be even more depressing when he doesn't, and goes down the same path as everyone else over the next few years.

[Joe Canadian]

So Anderson Cooper did a bit about the story and how all these wrestlers are dying, steroids, tough work schedule, drugs, basiclly what we all expected. And who do they interview as a representative of the industry... Brian Christopher.

... honestly. :rolleyes:

[molson]

So Anderson Cooper did a bit about the story and how all these wrestlers are dying, steroids, tough work schedule, drugs, basiclly what we all expected. And who do they interview as a representative of the industry... Brian Christopher.

... honestly. :rolleyes:

Tom Zenk was booked.

[DeToxRox]

There's a fair amount of speculation out there that Edge could walk away from the business soon. He was very close to Eddie and Benoit, he's still young, has lots of money, and a close friend (Christian) took a paycut to leave the WWE for the reduced schedule of TNA recently. Watching the last few seconds of his video and you can see it coming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeFH7BnBWek. I think he's one of the few guys who's had to do a video for Owen, Eddit and now Benoit.

It's not hard to connect the dots on what he should do, which is why it's going to be even more depressing when he doesn't, and goes down the same path as everyone else over the next few years.

I think you'll see Edge and Rey Mysterio go to be honest. Mysterio has peaked in his career and he keeps losing friends.

Sadly, Kurt Angle still is on my list of next to go, but not in a "retire" sense. Another death of a good friend of his? Plus his wishes of MMA? He's going to be in a world of trouble I am afraid.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tom Zenk was booked.

And The Ultimate Warrior missed his flight.

[DeToxRox]

.. A we want Benoit chant during the ME of ECW tonight.

[General Mike]

I think you'll see Edge and Rey Mysterio go to be honest. Mysterio has peaked in his career and he keeps losing friends.

Sadly, Kurt Angle still is on my list of next to go, but not in a "retire" sense. Another death of a good friend of his? Plus his wishes of MMA? He's going to be in a world of trouble I am afraid.

Angle really worries me. I don't know if he's just putting on an act when he goes on shows like Bubba the Love Sponge, but I sure hope he is.

[DeToxRox]

from pwtorch

A woman tells News 1130 in Vancouver, B.C. that Chris Benoit's son Daniel had a condition called Fragile X syndrome. Wikipedia describes the symptoms:

Aside from intellectual disability (mental retardation), prominent characteristics of the syndrome include an elongated face, large or protruding ears, flat feet, larger testicals in men (macroorchidism), and low muscle tone. Behavioral characteristics may include stereotypic movements (e.g., hand-flapping) and atypical social development, particularly shyness and limited eye contact. Some individuals with the fragile X syndrome also meet the diagnostic criteria for autism. While full mutation males tend to present with severe intellectual disability, the symptomology of full mutation females runs the gamut of minimally affected to severe intellectual disability, which may explain why females are underdiagnosed relative to males.

The woman interviewed for the News 1130 story says her family was in contact with the Benoits, but they didn't want to go public with the disease and chose to keep things low profile. She added that families can be torn apart by the disease because it's very difficult to find help and support. She said, "You as a parent have to go out there and find what's available and it's not easy --they don't tell you."

Wade Kellers Analysis: This may explain why Daniel was taking growth hormone injections. It also may shed light onto why Chris didn't want someone else raising his son and made the fateful decision to kill him. As irrrational and twisted as it may sound, he may have felt he was saving his son from the double-blow of losing his parents through a murder-suicide and being subject to being raised by people who didn't understand or care for his condition.

[DaddyTorgo]

all these people trying to "rationalize" what he did and make some sort of "excuse" for him being a murdering POS are really starting to piss me off.

[DeToxRox]

all these people trying to "rationalize" what he did and make some sort of "excuse" for him being a murdering POS are really starting to piss me off.

Ditto.

I am just posting any new information I haven't seen posted here.

[jbmagic]

A message from the Chairman
Written: June 26, 2007

The following message from Vince McMahon aired at the beginning of tonight's ECW on Sci Fi:

Last night on Monday Night Raw, the WWE presented a special tribute show, recognizing the career of Chris Benoit. However, now some 26 hours later, the facts of this horrific tragedy are now apparent. Therefore, other than my comments, there will be no mention of Mr. Benoit tonight. On the contrary, tonight's show will be dedicated to everyone who has been affected by this terrible incident. This evening marks the first step of the healing process. Tonight, the WWE performers will do what they do better than anyone else in the world – entertain you.

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/chairmanbenoit

[DaddyTorgo]

Ditto.

I am just posting any new information I haven't seen posted here.

hehe okay.

it's like "dude...he killed his wife and his 7 year old kid. I don't care what his twisted mind was thinking. This isn't like elementary school where you get points for trying. You fucked up. doesn't matter what your INTENTION was. Your action was evil."

[BYU 14]

A message from the Chairman
Written: June 26, 2007

The following message from Vince McMahon aired at the beginning of tonight's ECW on Sci Fi:

Last night on Monday Night Raw, the WWE presented a special tribute show, recognizing the career of Chris Benoit. However, now some 26 hours later, the facts of this horrific tragedy are now apparent. Therefore, other than my comments, there will be no mention of Mr. Benoit tonight. On the contrary, tonight's show will be dedicated to everyone who has been affected by this terrible incident. This evening marks the first step of the healing process. Tonight, the WWE performers will do what they do better than anyone else in the world – entertain you.

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/chairmanbenoit

Have to say this was the right thing to do, though I don't think he should have gotten ripped as much as he has for the tribute when the details of what truly happened were not known.

That said, I think VKM is the worst thing that has ever happened to Wrestling and is a total POS who puts his ego and the Dollar ahead of the everything else including the well being of his Employees.

With this horrific event one has to wonder if he will finally start to re-evaluate the way he does business and the expectations he puts on his workers. Please don't take this as me blaming McMahon for Benoits actions, as I am not.

I do think the question needs to be asked though. Will the WWE finally start enforcing a legit no Steriods policy and maybe lessen the work load a bit to lessen the need for the Wrestlers taking Pain killers and other drugs to be able to perform.

[Karlifornia]

is a total POS who puts his ego and the Dollar ahead of the everything else including the well being of his Employees.



Isn't this the way most big businesses work? I'm not trying to be antagonistic...it's a serious question.

[Travis]

Isn't this the way most big businesses work? I'm not trying to be antagonistic...it's a serious question.

And could also be why the world and society as a whole may not necessarily be heading in the best of directions, but that's a discussion for a different thread and a different day.

[st.cronin]

Isn't this the way most big businesses work? I'm not trying to be antagonistic...it's a serious question.

Probably.

[BYU 14]

Isn't this the way most big businesses work? I'm not trying to be antagonistic...it's a serious question.

Unfortunately you are probably right about the majority of big Business.......But, I guess I am an eternal optimist in that I think you can still make Money and care for/take care of your people.

The Wrestling Business has always been full of Vince types, I think he just takes it to another level.

[JonInMiddleGA]

There's at least 1.14 Billion reasons (the current market cap for WWE stock) that I wouldn't expect to see the work load lessened noticeably.

[BYU 14]

There's at least 1.14 Billion reasons (the current market cap for WWE stock) that I wouldn't expect to see the work load lessened noticeably.

Probably right Jon, and if this won't do it then nothing will.

I hope we see a few defections to TNA, with their lighter schedule, as hopefully some Wrestlers will begin to realize it is just not good to push so hard all the time. Christian made that move and lost a lot of Money, but I would imagine if asked, he would say he doesn't regret it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I hope we see a few defections to TNA, with their lighter schedule,

Worth nothing here though is that they're also starting to run house shows now, not to the extent of the WWE at this point of course, but still not the same light workload that it was until a few months ago.

[Ryche]

Looking back at that Regal interview, I'm sure he had a good idea of how this might turn out. He's always struck me as one of the most intelligent guys in the business.

I have a feeling this could have a pretty large impact as some of these wrestlers start evaluating their situations. Edge, Mysterio, Chavo, I could see all of them walking away from the business very soon. As could a lot of others that have been on the fence about retiring or have been around a long time.

This might be the event that makes McMahon take another look at how the business is run and hopefully he'll start making some changes. From everything I've been hearing, they have made an honest attempt to clean up steroids since Eddie's death. Maybe they'll start mandating offtime for the wrestlers as well. Although I think Benoit had about a 6 month break from wrestling not that long ago.

Even if we assume that all McMahon cares about is the money (which I don't believe actually) events like this do not help business. So hopefully something will be done.

[Neon_Chaos]

hehe okay.

it's like "dude...he killed his wife and his 7 year old kid. I don't care what his twisted mind was thinking. This isn't like elementary school where you get points for trying. You fucked up. doesn't matter what your INTENTION was. Your action was evil."

It's good that you can define things as either black or white.

There's just a lot of emotions and, I guess, sentimentality involved that greys it all out for me.

:(

[Karlifornia]

It's good that you can define things as either black or white.

There's just a lot of emotions and, I guess, sentimentality involved that greys it all out for me.

:(

If killing your wife and child doesn't darken those grays, then I couldn't hazard a guess as to what would.

[Mota]

From everything I've been hearing, they have made an honest attempt to clean up steroids since Eddie's death. Maybe they'll start mandating offtime for the wrestlers as well. Although I think Benoit had about a 6 month break from wrestling not that long ago.

Problem is that he really made a big attempt until the heat on him was off, then he backed off. You'll notice Chris Masters got really skinny for a while right after the Eddy event, and then has gradually been getting bigger and bigger since. Steroids = money for Vince, and we all know Vince is about the money, so how long can he stay away from it?

[Neon_Chaos]

If killing your wife and child doesn't darken those grays, then I couldn't hazard a guess as to what would.

When you've followed Benoit's career for the past 15 somewhat years, watch him come across as a guy who worked hard and someone who poured his blood, sweat, and tears to entertain people in a vicious business that more often than not rewarded politicians rather than honest guys, it's pretty hard to come to terms with what he has done.

I'm not saying that he didn't do it, or that it wasn't wrong. But when you see someone who, for the past decade or so, projected qualities that you strive hard to emulate and live up to, it is very difficult for some people, especially myself, to really accept that this guy that I've watched for the past decade or so basically went off the deep end and took the lives of his very own loved ones and his own.

I find it wierd that I don't feel rage or anger towards him. Just sadness. Not the sadness that you feel when losing a loved one, more like sadness for a fallen hero who succumbed to his own demons.

[molson]

When you've followed Benoit's career for the past 15 somewhat years, watch him come across as a guy who worked hard and someone who poured his blood, sweat, and tears to entertain people in a vicious business that more often than not rewarded politicians rather than honest guys, it's pretty hard to come to terms with what he has done.



None of that says anything at all about his character as a person.

If this story was about The Great Khali, or Mark Henry, nobody would be talking about grey areas. Benoit is getting the benefit of the doubt because he's a good wrestler, which is a ridiculous. He was a good wrestler who, even before all this went down, abandoned his family for another man's wife, and beat the crap out of her.

Benoit was a monster.

[Ksyrup]

Not having heard of this guy before Monday, I agree. Was all of this unknown before the murders - the domestic abuse, leaving his family, etc.? The way everyone in this thread talked about him, I had the feeling he was truly a good guy who somehow took a turn for the worst and this was completely out of character. But it's pretty obvious that this guy was a bad dude, and while you don't expect every bad person to kill his family, knowing now what I know, I can't say I'm surprised about this at all. The paranoia stuff is probably a new revelation, but still, this guy was a bad guy dressed up in a good guy wrestler persona.

I read somewhere that his wife's husband was also in the business and actually scripted the two of them (Chris and Nancy) getting together on the show, and then they turned it into a real-life soap opera and she left her husband for Benoit, and they both completely abandoned their families? What kind of fuck abandons his family like that - aside from Johnny Damon, of course?

[cougarfreak]

Not having heard of this guy before Monday, I agree. Was all of this unknown before the murders - the domestic abuse, leaving his family, etc.? The way everyone in this thread talked about him, I had the feeling he was truly a good guy who somehow took a turn for the worst and this was completely out of character. But it's pretty obvious that this guy was a bad dude, and while you don't expect every bad person to kill his family, knowing now what I know, I can't say I'm surprised about this at all. The paranoia stuff is probably a new revelation, but still, this guy was a bad guy dressed up in a good guy wrestler persona.

I read somewhere that his wife's husband was also in the business and actually scripted the two of them (Chris and Nancy) getting together on the show, and then they turned it into a real-life soap opera and she left her husband for Benoit, and they both completely abandoned their families? What kind of fuck abandons his family like that - aside from Johnny Damon, of course?

Happens everyday in real life. Strange talks.

[molson]

Not having heard of this guy before Monday, I agree. Was all of this unknown before the murders - the domestic abuse, leaving his family, etc.?

Abandoning his family for another man's wife was well documented (it practically occurred on TV, since it actually started as a storyline where Nancy left her wrestler husband Kevin Sullivan for Chris Benoit). I hadn't heard the Domestic Battery story, but I'm sure it was known amongst wrestlers.

That's kind of of the thing that's sticking with me as the main part of this story winds down. If even before all this, Benoit was considered a "good guy" in the wrestling world, - what the hell are bad guys doing? If Benoit really had been "deteriorating" as all his defenders are saying, this aggressive, selfish behavior didn't magically start this weekend, and yet all the wrestlers just had glowing things to say about him.

[Toddzilla]

Benoit is getting the benefit of the doubt because he's a good wrestler, which is a ridiculous.No - Benoit is getting "the benefit of the doubt" (which I disagree with as well) because by every account of every person, wrestler and fan alike, that has ever met and known Chris Benoit, they knew him a genuinely kind, polite, pleasant person who loved his family, loved his kids, and loved his profession. That is why this story is so sensational and so hard to swallow - what happened was so completely out of character based on what everyone knew about Benoit.

If this had been Jake Roberts, or New Jack, we'd all be saying "yeah, kinda figured this would happen" based on what we all know about them.

[DaddyTorgo]

No - Benoit is getting "the benefit of the doubt" (which I disagree with as well) because by every account of every person, wrestler and fan alike, that has ever met and known Chris Benoit, they knew him a genuinely kind, polite, pleasant person who loved his family, loved his kids, and loved his profession. That is why this story is so sensational and so hard to swallow - what happened was so completely out of character based on what everyone knew about Benoit.

If this had been Jake Roberts, or New Jack, we'd all be saying "yeah, kinda figured this would happen" based on what we all know about them.

New Jack is a crazy mofo!!!

[Ksyrup]

The leaving his family thing, in and of itself, would have soured me on the guy. I can't see how so many wrestling fans can talk of how he was a good guy who worked hard, deserved the position he had, etc., when you had an example of him as a person practically laid out in front of you to witness first-hand. I think Johnny Damon is a scumbag of a human being whose choice of team just makes it easier to root against. But even when he was part of the feel-good story of the Red Sox, I still couldn't stand him and wished he wasn't involved. That will always color the way I view him, and I'm a bit surprised that sentiment doesn't appear to have played a part in the way any of you viewed him (at least, as I read the initial comments in this thread before the facts unfolded as they have). Just surprising, that's all.

[molson]

No - Benoit is getting "the benefit of the doubt" (which I disagree with as well) because by every account of every person, wrestler and fan alike, that has ever met and known Chris Benoit, they knew him a genuinely kind, polite, pleasant person who loved his family, loved his kids, and loved his profession. .

Except for the beating up his wife thing. And honestly, I don't think "nice guy" was Benoit's reputation (not knowing him personally), in the same way it was for say, Owen Hart. I had always heard "intense", "hard worker", etc.

[JonInMiddleGA]

...because by every account of every person, wrestler and fan alike...

I couldn't help but notice yesterday that the same sort of reactions were coming from the few people in the community who had no connection to wrestling at all. The guy who ran the local pizza place, a cashier at the local grocery, etc.

That tied into something my wife & I have talked about with this, whether the impressions people had of him were just a carefully controlled act or if he did suddenly swerve off the deep end. I just have a hard time thinking anyone (and particularly someone noted for being a relatively poor actor) could be so consistently "in character" for the better part of 20 years without tipping off people who were around him so frequently, an impression that was reinforced for me with the comments of those who didn't know him from wrestling circles.

[Ksyrup]

It's easy to view someone as "nice" if you just have a passing interaction with them. There are probably plenty of fans to whom Barry Bonds has been nice. Also, the people around you who you like and who like you are going to put the best face on who you are as a person - that's just human nature. I think it's telling that the tribute that was aired the other night - when at the time it looked like Benoit was a victim - was nothing but positive. And then the facts come out, and we start hearing tidbits about domestic abuse, strange, irrational behavior, etc.

[BrianD]

No - Benoit is getting "the benefit of the doubt" (which I disagree with as well) because by every account of every person, wrestler and fan alike, that has ever met and known Chris Benoit, they knew him a genuinely kind, polite, pleasant person who loved his family, loved his kids, and loved his profession. That is why this story is so sensational and so hard to swallow - what happened was so completely out of character based on what everyone knew about Benoit.

If this had been Jake Roberts, or New Jack, we'd all be saying "yeah, kinda figured this would happen" based on what we all know about them.

Weren't you arguing against me yesterday for saying that maybe he wasn't a complete monster and somehow just went off the deep end?

[Buccaneer]

It's easy to view someone as "nice" if you just have a passing interaction with them. There are probably plenty of fans to whom Barry Bonds has been nice. Also, the people around you who you like and who like you are going to put the best face on who you are as a person - that's just human nature. I think it's telling that the tribute that was aired the other night - when at the time it looked like Benoit was a victim - was nothing but positive. And then the facts come out, and we start hearing tidbits about domestic abuse, strange, irrational behavior, etc.

Which reminds me of one of my pet peeves. Let's there was a murder or a rape or a kidnapping. The pick up the guy and his name and mug are published. Then you send some reporter out to his neighborhood and every single frickin' time you will always find a neighbor that says, "he was nice, but quiet" and they publish that as if it means something. Most neighbors nowadays just see people coming and going and have no clue as to what they are really like. I guess if one is not running up and down the street terrorizing the neighborhood, then I guess they must be a nice person.

[JonInMiddleGA]

when you had an example of him as a person practically laid out in front of you to witness first-hand.

It seems worth noting here that the divorce of Nancy & Kevin Sullivan took place in 1997, with the angle preceding it starting in '96. While the internet was certainly around and had already begun to influence pro wrestling, it was not as pervasive as it is today either. The circumstances of the relationship were public but I recall little being said about it beyond the basic outline - they were put in an angle together & it turned into something real.

Also affecting the perception had to be the fact that Kevin Sullivan was not a popular figure (a hated heel to the "marks" & a bad booker to the "smarts"), and that I don't recall ever hearing anything about the state of Benoit's first marriage prior to the affair with Nancy, happy/troubled/otherwise. Then the two men appeared to continue to work together without incident after the Sullivan's divorce, to the extent that it was occasionally joked that Kevin "booked his own divorce", a quick joke on one hand but also I believe indicative of suspicions that he may not have particularly minded the break-up himself.

Point of all this being to add some background as to why it might seem Benoit & Sullivan got a pass on their relationship. Truth is only the faintest of details seem to have been known about it, and while a lot of fans might not have approved of the basic idea of an affair leading to two divorces, there was also some suspicion that there was more to the two stories than we ever heard.

edit to add: The divorce rate in pro wrestling has to be well above the norm, or at least it seems that way considering how many cases I can think of off-hand. Further, as even my wife pointed out last night, although she genuinely dislikes wrestling but has been exposed to it by four generations of men in her life (grandfather through son), there's always been a lot of intermarriage among the participants - wrestlers frequently find themselves married to sisters & daughters and such of other wrestlers, and relationships with more than one wrester not uncommon (Lita-Matt Hardy-Edge being the most recent very public example).

[Flasch186]

I loved Kevin Sullivan in a demonic kind of way back in the day. He was the "evil Vince" before there was an "evil Vince."

I dont have ANY inside information but isnt this talk of people leaving, ie. Chavo, Edge, etc. a little overboard? I mean this is their career, what the heck else are they going to do?

[Neon_Chaos]

None of that says anything at all about his character as a person.

If this story was about The Great Khali, or Mark Henry, nobody would be talking about grey areas. Benoit is getting the benefit of the doubt because he's a good wrestler, which is a ridiculous. He was a good wrestler who, even before all this went down, abandoned his family for another man's wife, and beat the crap out of her.

Benoit was a monster.

I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm not saying what he did was acceptable. It was a horrible crime, and I have no doubt in my mind that what Benoit did was unjustifiable and simply inhumane.

Sure it's easy to paint the picture black or white whenever you're coming from a perspective outside of wrestling. Maybe it's easier if you see wrestling for what it is... just a form of entertainment. I guess I'm just too "into it" to actually be able to get out of the gray areas regarding my feelings of confusion towards this entire tragedy.

But I guess we will all have different opinions about Benoit as a person. I don't know what was going through his head, or the circumstances that led to this tragedy. It's not for me to judge or to put under a microscope. For some, he will go down as one of the most infamous people in professional wrestling because of what he did. For others, he will probably be given the benefit of the doubt, as you said, because he was a good wrestler. I'm just extremely sad and disappointed that someone who I probably rooted for most of my life, whose good traits I've tried to emulate as a person, ended his and his family's lives the way that he did.

[st.cronin]

I loved Kevin Sullivan in a demonic kind of way back in the day. He was the "evil Vince" before there was an "evil Vince."

I dont have ANY inside information but isnt this talk of people leaving, ie. Chavo, Edge, etc. a little overboard? I mean this is their career, what the heck else are they going to do?

They're going into real estate, I hear.

[Ksyrup]

Point of all this being to add some background as to why it might seem Benoit & Sullivan got a pass on their relationship. Truth is only the faintest of details seem to have been known about it, and while a lot of fans might not have approved of the basic idea of an affair leading to two divorces, there was also some suspicion that there was more to the two stories than we ever heard.

And he probably wasn't THAT big of a jackass to write a book boasting about it like Damon did.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I dont have ANY inside information but isnt this talk of people leaving, ie. Chavo, Edge, etc. a little overboard?

I would think so, yes.

[Maple Leafs]

The wrestling business is taking a pounding today. For the first time, major media are asking some tough questions about the lifestyle and the answers aren't pretty. Steve Austin's ex-wife was on TV yesterday saying that domestic abuse and drug use are common and she wasn't surprised that it eventually came to this. There will be mroe stories like this if the right people are asked for their thoughts.

I can see this going one of three ways, in terms of media attention:

- The media pins the blame on roid rage, wraps the story up in a neat little package, and closes the book in one or two news cycles and moves on to the next controversy

- The media actually shines a light on the business. Tough questions get asked, not just about steroids but about travel schedules, pain killers, concussions, etc. Fans start to wake up to what's going on. Vince and othe promoters have to make changes because the old way isn't good business any more. And things slowly but surely start to get better.

- The media actually shines a light on the business... for a while. Vince gets ripped on tv, lots of scandal and allegations, plenty of mud-slinging. The wrestling industry takes a major hit. Then people get bored of the story and move on to something else. And things actually end up getting worse.

Anyone want to take bets on what happens?

[molson]

Point of all this being to add some background as to why it might seem Benoit & Sullivan got a pass on their relationship. Truth is only the faintest of details seem to have been known about it, and while a lot of fans might not have approved of the basic idea of an affair leading to two divorces, there was also some suspicion that there was more to the two stories than we ever heard.


All good points, but I think it says something about the blurring of reality/character in wrestling. Chris Benoit leaving his family for another man's wife - Fans response: "Hey, we don't know all the details". Kevin Sullivan's a bad booker who doesn't push Benoit enough. Fans: "That asshole is trying to ruin his career! Benoit has to get out!". No grey area on the latter. The Kevin Sullivans, the Vince Russos, the Kevin Nashs are far more universally hated than the Benoits, Edges, Austins, Snukas,

[Maple Leafs]

I dont have ANY inside information but isnt this talk of people leaving, ie. Chavo, Edge, etc. a little overboard? I mean this is their career, what the heck else are they going to do?
Well, a guy like Edge has probably made enough money to walk away, although who knows what he did with it. There's precendent for it -- look at Chris Jericho. He saved his money, and walked away in his prime. Now he tours around with his novelty rock band and by all accounts is having a great time. Trish Stratus quit too recently, and Christian walked away from a lot more money to take a reduced schedule in TNA.

For whatever it's worth, all of those people are Canadian and all are friends of Edge. So if he wants to know what life on the other side is like, he can find out pretty easily.

[Ksyrup]

There's precendent for it -- look at Chris Jericho. He saved his money, and walked away in his prime. Now he tours around with his novelty rock band and by all accounts is having a great time.

Please. Take him back. The rock world doesn't want him.

[SnDvls]

Just to add what Jon has said.

When the story was "booked" (written) Chris & Nancy were forced to contine the wrestling story in the real world as well to not break "kayfabe" (wrestling and it's stories are fake). So they were told to hold hands in public and share a hotel room ect. to keep the story as real as possible.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Steve Austin's ex-wife was on TV yesterday

After Googling, I assume you mean Debra ... who's also the ex-wife of former Chicago Bear-turned-wrestler (although I use the term loosely) Steve "Mongo" McMichael.

By most accounts, trotting her out as a wife-done-wrong is even less credible than having Brian Christopher be the representative of pro wrestling (as was mentioned up the thread).

Not to say in the least that what she claimed doesn't happen, just pointing out that she isn't exactly the most credible person to be claiming it. (For those who don't remember her, she's generally thought of as a gold digger who'll do anything for attention & was reportedly trying once again to get a job with the WWE as recently as last year)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Please. Take him back. The rock world doesn't want him.

I'll have to disagree with you on that one.

While the first couple of cover albums were pretty campy (not really bad, just bar bandish), the latest has been one of the most listened to albums I've bought in the past few years. The songwriting is above average, the musicianship is competent, and there's some signs of versatility beyond what the covers displayed.

[Maple Leafs]

Please. Take him back. The rock world doesn't want him.
Well, that's exactly the point. It's not like he switched careers because he had some great untapped talent in the music world. He's just some goof in a bad rock band. But because he saved his money, now he can tour around and have a great time. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

... look at Chris Jericho. He saved his money, and walked away in his prime. Now he tours around with his novelty rock band and by all accounts is having a great time.

... and has spent the better part of the past year not-so-discreetly jockeying for better bargaining position with both the WWE & TNA by commenting on a possible return in the media.

I'm happy for him, don't get me wrong, glad that he took some time to do something else that was seemed to be a lifelong ambition. But his eventual return to the ring doesn't seem to be much of a question at this point, just a matter of when.

[molson]

By most accounts, trotting her out as a wife-done-wrong is even less credible than having Brian Christopher be the representative of pro wrestling (as was mentioned up the thread).

Not to say in the least that what she claimed doesn't happen, just pointing out that she isn't exactly the most credible person to be claiming it. (For those who don't remember her, she's generally thought of as a gold digger who'll do anything for attention & was reportedly trying once again to get a job with the WWE as recently as last year)

That's all true, it's also true that police have been called to Austin's house on more than one occasion, where injuries have been found on Debra. He's also has domestic violence conviction regarding her. He also beat up his new girlfriend.

Edit: None of this seems to be considered as much of a sin in the wrestling world as say, not pushing CM Punk enough. Which makes wrestling considerably different, for some reason, to the legitimate sports leagues in that regard (look how we obsess over the morality of the Bengals and Trailblazers, putting character first, talent second).

[Maple Leafs]

Not to say in the least that what she claimed doesn't happen, just pointing out that she isn't exactly the most credible person to be claiming it. (For those who don't remember her, she's generally thought of as a gold digger who'll do anything for attention & was reportedly trying once again to get a job with the WWE as recently as last year)
Well, there's going to be credibility issues with virtually anyone inside the business who talks about this. That's part of the problem, virtually nobody is squeaky clean.

And what's the knock on Brian Christopher being a guest? He's been in the business a long time, he had a run with the WWE, he should know what he's talking about. Does his voice not count because he was a jobber?

[Radii]

- The media pins the blame on roid rage, wraps the story up in a neat little package, and closes the book in one or two news cycles and moves on to the next controversy

Anyone want to take bets on what happens?


That's my bet. This is a bizarre case, and a horrible crime, and its a sensational story, but there's nothing here to drag it out for months to keep it in the media, or to keep it coming back. There will be a toxicology report in a little under 2 weeks that will make a headline, and maybe a couple reports after that about the violent, dangerous, destructive world of professional wrestling, and that will be it. If there was a murder trial, I'd suggest differently, but with this being a murder/suicide, it makes for a *very* sensational story right now but nothing to keep it in the spotlight for a long enough term to make a difference.

[Toddzilla]

Weren't you arguing against me yesterday for saying that maybe he wasn't a complete monster and somehow just went off the deep end?No - well, I don't think so - I believe from what limited information we know that he probably was as nice and great of a guy as everyone associated with him (that are still alive, TIC) says he was, and he most likely had some kind of severe mental break from reality. I even posted as such earlier in the thread. I did say, however, that he doesn't deserve any praise or anything like that - he's a child killer first and foremost and warrants all the scorn he's getting.

[Ksyrup]

I'll have to disagree with you on that one.

While the first couple of cover albums were pretty campy (not really bad, just bar bandish), the latest has been one of the most listened to albums I've bought in the past few years. The songwriting is above average, the musicianship is competent, and there's some signs of versatility beyond what the covers displayed.

Meh. Standard 80s metal fare. I have a Stuck Mojo album, so I know the musicians are decent, but there's really nothing that interests me about them. Kinda like Godsmack - just standard, mediocre, rehashed metal. I'll be the first to admit, though, that the cartoonish buffoon lead singer character is an instant turn off, regardless of how great the music could be. Leave the bigger-than-the-music personalities to other genres; I like my metal undiluted by that crap.

[MikeVic]

Meh. Standard 80s metal fare. I have a Stuck Mojo album, so I know the musicians are decent, but there's really nothing that interests me about them. Kinda like Godsmack - just standard, mediocre, rehashed metal. I'll be the first to admit, though, that the cartoonish buffoon lead singer character is an instant turn off, regardless of how great the music could be. Leave the bigger-than-the-music personalities to other genres; I like my metal undiluted by that crap.

I think you have a metal problem, sir. Perhaps even an... addiciton?

[JonInMiddleGA]

And what's the knock on Brian Christopher being a guest? He's been in the business a long time, he had a run with the WWE, he should know what he's talking about. Does his voice not count because he was a jobber?

Not so much that he was a jobber, mostly it was just a shot at how far down the ladder a show went to find a wrestler to put on camera. I mean, he's not Erik Watts, but he's closer to that than not.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meh. Standard 80s metal fare.

While Enemy was a somewhat catchy but otherwise unremarkable song,
I thought Nameless Faceless was a really underrated gem. I also liked, in a way, seeing the growth of sorts from straight '80s covers to a more modern sound (even though I generally prefer the 80s sound to the current).

Certainly the next album will be a big test to see if there's really much more there, but I saw at least some indications that there might be more than the first few projects would have led me to believe.

[molson]

Not so much that he was a jobber, mostly it was just a shot at how far down the ladder a show went to find a wrestler to put on camera. I mean, he's not Erik Watts, but he's closer to that than not.

That, and I think he has a reputation as sort of an immature, druggie goofball (which was cemented after he actually got re-hired by the WWE around 2003, then got fired after one show for getting caught with drugs at the Canadian border)

So it's kind of funny to see him in any serious context.

[Ksyrup]

I'm a metal snob in a wrestling thread. Ima get pounded. :)

[Toddzilla]

That, and I think he has a reputation as sort of an immature, druggie goofball (which was cemented after he actually got re-hired by the WWE around 2003, then got fired after one show for getting caught with drugs at the Canadian border)

So it's kind of funny to see him in any serious context.The first comparison I though of was how they always drag out Mancow everytime radio "shock-jocks" are in the news. Seriously, could there be anyone less relevant?

[EagleFan]

Damn, this is the first I heard the rest oif the story. Now I'm pissed off for actually watching the tribute and feeling sad for him. I hope there's a special place in hell set aside for him now.

[BrianD]

Damn, this is the first I heard the rest oif the story. Now I'm pissed off for actually watching the tribute and feeling sad for him. I hope there's a special place in hell set aside for him now.

It would go well with the special place in hell he was probably in to get himself to this point...

[SnDvls]

Damn, this is the first I heard the rest oif the story. Now I'm pissed off for actually watching the tribute and feeling sad for him. I hope there's a special place in hell set aside for him now.

I still haven't watched it...probally won't... it's on my DVR right now at home