July console sales numbers......

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

June numbers were similar to the previous months in North America. Wii way ahead, PS2 in 2nd, 360 in 3rd and the PS3 bringing up the rear. Pretty mundane stuff.

Finally, there's something interesting to discuss with the PS3 price drop. Here is the data for the first two weeks in July (no handhelds in these numbers).

July 7th, 2007 ($599 PS3)

Wii - 69,510
PS2 - 45,066
360 - 34,623
PS3 - 17,770
GC - 2,112
Xbox - 14

July 14th, 2007 ($499 PS3)

Wii - 76,394
PS2 - 43,406
PS3 - 41,005
360 - 35,084
GC - 1,864
Xbox - 11

Some points:

1. Wii continues to climb the ladder, selling 12% more Wii's than the previous week.

2. PS3 sales jump from 17.7K to 41K.

3. PS2 sales only dipped by about 2K. I thought they would drop a bit more with a cheaper PS3 as an alternative, but it appears that the PS2 and PS3 sales numbers don't necessarily correlate in that if one sells more, the other one dips.

4. 360 sales go up very slightly. Good sign for them that the PS3 sales increase didn't take away their steady sales numbers.

5. Who were the 11 people that bought an Xbox?????

I should note that these are numbers from vgchartz, so they may be somewhat inaccurate, but they provide a good trending indicator overall.

[MikeVic]

June numbers were similar to the previous months in North America. Wii way ahead, PS2 in 2nd, 360 in 3rd and the PS3 bringing up the rear. Pretty mundane stuff.

Finally, there's something interesting to discuss with the PS3 price drop. Here is the data for the first two weeks in July (no handhelds in these numbers).



Some points:

1. Wii continues to climb the ladder, selling 12% more Wii's than the previous week.

2. PS3 sales jump from 17.7K to 41K.

3. PS2 sales only dipped by about 2K. I thought they would drop a bit more with a cheaper PS3 as an alternative, but it appears that the PS2 and PS3 sales numbers don't necessarily correlate in that if one sells more, the other one dips.

4. 360 sales go up very slightly. Good sign for them that the PS3 sales increase didn't take away their steady sales numbers.

5. Who were the 11 people that bought an Xbox?????

Lol, I want to buy an XBox next month so I can say I'm one of the handful that did. :D

Looks like a good month (sales increase) for everyone, with a big jump by the PS3. I wonder if the handheld is about the same? If all the consoles went up, did the handhelds go down?

[TroyF]

Nothing really changes for the long term forecast.

Wii is still going to dominate this generation. The PS3 is still in a world of hurt. The price drop generated about 23k units. But it still just barely clipped the 360 and it's pretty safe assumption to make that they are going to rubber band back a little after the initial influx.

The number that continues to amaze me is the PS2. Just an incredible system.

[MikeVic]

I'd buy a PS2 right now if I could get the thicker ones. I don't like the thin ones, so I'm borrowing a friend's thick PS2 right now.

[Ryan S]

3. PS2 sales only dipped by about 2K. I thought they would drop a bit more with a cheaper PS3 as an alternative, but it appears that the PS2 and PS3 sales numbers

The people picking up a PS2 now probably won't consider a PS3 till 2010 or later. The price of the PS2 is a major attraction to people who are looking for a cheap console with a ton of available games.

[sachmo71]

I'd buy a PS2 right now if I could get the thicker ones. I don't like the thin ones, so I'm borrowing a friend's thick PS2 right now.

That's hot.

[MikeVic]

That's hot.

...

[Travis]

Nothing really changes for the long term forecast.

Wii is still going to dominate this generation. The PS3 is still in a world of hurt. The price drop generated about 23k units. But it still just barely clipped the 360 and it's pretty safe assumption to make that they are going to rubber band back a little after the initial influx.

The number that continues to amaze me is the PS2. Just an incredible system.

I'm going to respectfully disagree on the point of the Wii dominating this generation. The numbers are great so far and that will never take away from what they have done to this point, but I still firmly believe that in a year or so, the fad will fade away and the 360 and PS3 will catch up quite a bit over the long haul.

Certainly not saying that the Wii sucks or will get hammered in the end, but given that console generations are going to be 7-10 years, first year sales are huge, but not the be all end all. Once more people start entering the HDTV market (along with the PS3 establishing a better overall game base) and another wave of price cuts (I know, lots of conditions, but none that are that far fetched for either the 360 or PS3), the two will start the road back to evening out this battle.

Will they ever match the overall console number sales, maybe not. Will the Wii still be outselling them in total sales at a 2 or 3 to 1 clip in 5 years, I just can't see it (talking overall sales at that point, not just current/monthly).

Complete agreement on the PS2 numbers. I have a hard time believing any system from the current gen will have that sort of staying power at the next switch over.

Again, just my opinion, feel free to flame away (not directed at you on that one Troy, just in general).

[MikeVic]

Certainly not saying that the Wii sucks or will get hammered in the end, but given that console generations are going to be 7-10 years, first year sales are huge, but not the be all end all.

I'm not sure what'll be in the future, but you really think it'll be 2014-2017 until we see the next generation?

[Bee]

It will be interesting to see how much of that gain in sales the PS3 will keep in the weeks and months to come.

[TroyF]

Travis,

The Wii is going to continue to have a base the other two systems don't:

It appeals to both children and adults and it's the cheapest of the three.

It's going to stay strong. I think it will win this round by millions. And no, I don't think the next generation is 10 years away. Sony would like you to believe it is, but I don't think so. 7 years max.

[Tyrith]

Talking about the Wii winning...the console sales numbers are not the end all, be all of the bottom line. Game sales make up a lot of it for everyone involved, and something tells me, long term, the expensive systems will sell more games than the Wii, which will mostly sell a few select first party titles en masse.

[Travis]

I'm not sure what'll be in the future, but you really think it'll be 2014-2017 until we see the next generation?

Wii and PS3 both came out in late 06 (PS2 in late 2000 and the Gamecube in late 2001) with the 360 in late 05 (Xbox near the end of 2001). Wouldn't surprise me at all if this one goes 10 years, though certainly not my area of expertise and I have 0 contacts in the industry to know what is under development or if one of the three may try to get a jump on the other two next time around.

Just seems like a bit of a trend given how much work goes into the design of the console and how long it then takes for developers to fully utilize the differing features to each (ie: Wii likely getting better 3rd party games next year with their sprint start and the PS3 now getting more games developed for their system rather than ports of 360 titles) along with MS and Sony each really developing systems that are intended for the next wave of home theatre technology. I'd be surprised if the gap between consoles shrunk anyways.

[TroyF]

Talking about the Wii winning...the console sales numbers are not the end all, be all of the bottom line. Game sales make up a lot of it for everyone involved, and something tells me, long term, the expensive systems will sell more games than the Wii, which will mostly sell a few select first party titles en masse.

When you get a huge install base, it does a few things for you.

1) More developers make games for your system.
2) That means more games, with more people who own the system to buy those games, it equals major sales for any "hit" title.

As of now the Wii is selling a ton of games. I think it continues. I think it has more "sleeper" hits than the other two systems as we go forward. Time will tell.

[Travis]

When you get a huge install base, it does a few things for you.

1) More developers make games for your system.
2) That means more games, with more people who own the system to buy those games, it equals major sales for any "hit" title.

As of now the Wii is selling a ton of games. I think it continues. I think it has more "sleeper" hits than the other two systems as we go forward. Time will tell.

Not to mention the different controller set per game that litter the display cases at Futureshop/Bestbuy ;)

They've done a great job marketing themselves as the cheaper alternative, but I wonder when all is said and done, once you factor in kids and mom/dad giving in to not just the game, but the game specific *extras* just how quickly they make up that cost differential.

Certainly not berating them for it, it's great marketing and hides the price a lot better than slapping a $599 price tag on the box.

[MJ4H]

This time next year is when the Wii will actually be coming into its own, not a becoming a fading fad.

[Synovia]

what "game specific controllers"? I havent found a game yet I can't play with either my nunchuk/wiimotes, or a gamecube controller. dont forget, the sixaxis controllers are $50 a pop too.

If you think this is just a fad, you're missing whats going on here. Honestly, I think for the next 2 years or so, the Wii is going to continue to widen the weekly sales gap. Nintendo is giving the thing away to nursing homes. What do you think Gramma is gonna get the kiddies for christmas?

I think the Wii is going to crush the PS3 and 360 almost as badly as the PS2 crushed the Xbox and Gamecube

[albionmoonlight]

Someone mentioned in a previous version of this thread that a third party developer could invent a game for the Wii that really takes unique advatage of the Wiimote and become a major system seller--a'la Guitar Hero.

It may, of course, not happen. But with an install base that large, you would have to think that it is now worth the development costs for people to try.

And, even if 3rd party developers never create the Holy Grail game for the Wii, the fact that they are even going to try is a huge win for the Wii. They will not be the system of poorly done ports and kids games like I initially expected.

[path12]

The people picking up a PS2 now probably won't consider a PS3 till 2010 or later. The price of the PS2 is a major attraction to people who are looking for a cheap console with a ton of available games.

I don't have any console yet (haven't since Super Nintendo), but that's what I'm thinking about getting. Cheap, established base of games, plus cutting edge matters little to me......especially since I'm not sure how much I'll like console games.

[Travis]

what "game specific controllers"? I havent found a game yet I can't play with either my nunchuk/wiimotes, or a gamecube controller. dont forget, the sixaxis controllers are $50 a pop too.

If you think this is just a fad, you're missing whats going on here. Honestly, I think for the next 2 years or so, the Wii is going to continue to widen the weekly sales gap. Nintendo is giving the thing away to nursing homes. What do you think Gramma is gonna get the kiddies for christmas?

I think the Wii is going to crush the PS3 and 360 almost as badly as the PS2 crushed the Xbox and Gamecube

Not saying you can't play them with the stock controllers, but I've seen more than a few different controller sets sitting at Futureshop around here. It's a great marketing plan for game interaction like the Wii has to make controllers specific to a game where they can so long as they can keep the price of those controller manageable. Of course kids are going to want to use a sword and shield for Zelda if they can, why not cash in on that. A lot easier sell for interactive gaming than it is for couch'n'go.

[Cringer]

That is it, i can't handle the wiiboys anymore. I will have to start driving all bigtrucks with wii's enroute to stores, off the road. Lets see those sale numbers then. :evil laugh:

[Tyrith]

I just haven't seen any evidence that Nintendo is going to rally massive amounts of third party support around the Wii yet. They haven't had anything third party support in 10 years, with or without an installed user base.

[PJames]

Just to add my two cents, I think the large installed base of PS2 gamers will lead to increased sales of the PS3 down the road. As a parent of three kids that have a PS2, I'm leaning heavily towards the PS3 due to the large game library that we have already accumulated.

[Ryan S]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if this one goes 10 years,

There is no chance this generation will last 10 years. It will most likely last 3-5 years like previous generations.

There are a few reasons for this.

1 - While game console specs are pretty much set in stone, PC hardware updates all the time and in a few years console games will look terrible compared games you can play on a fairly basic spec PC

2 - Microsoft and Sony can not risk the chance of the other company releasing a new model and being left behind with dated hardware. I heard rumors as long ago as last summer than the PS4 was planned for approx 2010.

There will never be a console generation that lasts more than a few years.

[Ryan S]

I just haven't seen any evidence that Nintendo is going to rally massive amounts of third party support around the Wii yet. They haven't had anything third party support in 10 years, with or without an installed user base.

They also have not had a customer base like they do now since the days of the Super Nintendo.

[dawgfan]

When you get a huge install base, it does a few things for you.

1) More developers make games for your system.
2) That means more games, with more people who own the system to buy those games, it equals major sales for any "hit" title.

As of now the Wii is selling a ton of games. I think it continues. I think it has more "sleeper" hits than the other two systems as we go forward. Time will tell.
We'll see. I love the Wii, but the lack of success for 3rd party titles so far is certainly a concern for any publisher looking to jump on the Wii gravy train - so far the gravy train is only operating for Nintendo.

That's not to say that 3rd party publishers won't try and that some 3rd party game is going to break through and become a huge hit, but it hasn't happened so far. A large install base doesn't mean as much when consumers haven't been buying a lot of 3rd party games.

[dawgfan]

As a parent of three kids that have a PS2, I'm leaning heavily towards the PS3 due to the large game library that we have already accumulated.
Why? Does your PS2 no longer work?

I guess I don't see the logic here - if you're willing to get a next-gen system, what does it matter what you already have? If you and your kids still want to play your PS2 games after you get a new system (most don't), why couldn't you just play them on the PS2 you already have? Why wouldn't you get the next-gen system that has the next-gen game library that best fits your tastes?

[MJ4H]

I think you can look at the DS to see the kind of explosion that will happen when a 3rd party game really utilizes the hardware correctly (for DS, it was Meteos).

[MJ4H]

also, to follow up on dawgfan's point, I would lean towards a next-gen that is compatible with a different older system than you already have. The Wii was more attractive than the PS3 in backwards compatibility to me because of all the cheap Gamecube games that are now open to me (for the cheap PS2 games, I have a PS2 already so the PS3 adds nothing). I am buying killer games I've never played for $5 and less that I can play on my Wii because of the gamecube library.

[PJames]

Why? Does your PS2 no longer work?

I guess I don't see the logic here - if you're willing to get a next-gen system, what does it matter what you already have? If you and your kids still want to play your PS2 games after you get a new system (most don't), why couldn't you just play them on the PS2 you already have? Why wouldn't you get the next-gen system that has the next-gen game library that best fits your tastes?

My PS2 is still working, but showing it's age. It wouldn't be a big surprise if it quit working tomorrow. The thing to me is that it's been a very good system. Since I had such good luck with it, I'm inclined to stick with the same company. Brand loyalty is something that could help PS3 sales down the line.

[SackAttack]

We'll see. I love the Wii, but the lack of success for 3rd party titles so far is certainly a concern for any publisher looking to jump on the Wii gravy train - so far the gravy train is only operating for Nintendo.

Not that it means much absent context, but 14 of the top 20 selling Wii games have been third party games.

Now, see, if the majority of the third party games weren't utter dreck, that would mean a lot more than "six million sellers from Nintendo and everything else after that."

[Tyrith]

My PS2 is still working, but showing it's age. It wouldn't be a big surprise if it quit working tomorrow. The thing to me is that it's been a very good system. Since I had such good luck with it, I'm inclined to stick with the same company. Brand loyalty is something that could help PS3 sales down the line.

Yeah, I've had similar thoughts. My PS2 is quite old now, nearly first gen, and it's showing signs of flaking out. Doesn't really want to read PS1 discs anymore, is much, much pickier about what DVDs it likes than other DVD players. But I would still really want to play PS2 games if I got a new system (SUIKODEN 5!), and that would lean me towards a PS3. And while Playstation hardware has been generally bleh for me (my PS1 broke like two months after I got it, during the middle of FF7, made me really mad), the X-Box has had similar alarming problems.

[stevew]

I'm interested to see if there is going to be a "Madden" upswing for the ps3. Last year it was a launch title(I think), but that title a pretty good seller, especially in the first month or so. Perhaps instead of buying the ps2 version, people will finally upgrade to the new console.

[Izulde]

Wii may be selling lots of units, but I just don't see any games for the system that have any real staying power outside of maybe Zelda.

360 trounces both Wii and PS3 for game library quality right now, but my gut feeling tells me that PS3 will eventually close the library quality and quantity game, with the Wii left in the dust as far as library options go.

[14ers]

LOL... For the guy that is going to run the Wii truck off the road, Please open the back and pick me up one.:) I still can not lay my hands on a Wii anywhere.


I predict that yesterday's PS2 buyers will turn into next years Wii buyers.



Also, does the Wii offer an internet browser?

[TonyR]

While I love my PS2 (launch PS2 and still going strong), The fact that Sony is toying with consumers with a price drop/hike, etc makes me wonder if I will ever buy a PS3. I'd seriously consider it if it dropped a bit more in price, but that is probably a long while away.

Right now, it isn't feasible for me to get one since I work 50+ hours a week plus have an hour commute on top of that not to mention that currently we have gone to mandatory 6 day work weeks (60+ hrs/wk). As a work-induced casual gamer it is not worth it for me to plunk down $500+ for a system that won't get used much.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

There is no chance this generation will last 10 years. It will most likely last 3-5 years like previous generations.

There are a few reasons for this.

1 - While game console specs are pretty much set in stone, PC hardware updates all the time and in a few years console games will look terrible compared games you can play on a fairly basic spec PC

2 - Microsoft and Sony can not risk the chance of the other company releasing a new model and being left behind with dated hardware. I heard rumors as long ago as last summer than the PS4 was planned for approx 2010.

There will never be a console generation that lasts more than a few years.

If we assume your points to be true, there's absolutely no reason that the Wii should be anywhere other than 3rd behind the PS3 and 360 because processing power = sales, right?

Most of the industry people that I've chatted with believe that this generation will be around for quite awhile. The 360 and PS3 were honestly released at least 1 year before they should have been released. Processing power is a really nice feature, but you have to be able to release the technology where you can assure the quality control of that technology along with a price point that will appeal to the mass market.

Nintendo is winning right now because they didn't stretch on their product. It may not be the biggest or the best system, but it's a reliable system at a price point that the mass market can handle.

Sony and MS aren't going to be in any big hurry to jump into the next generation for quite awhile. They have to stretch out this generation at this point because the most profitable years are the later years when costs are low. Rushing out a Xbox 720 or PS4 too quickly could make the current console owners feel slighted, lead to quality control concerns, and result in another system that's overpriced for a market that is obviously very sensitive to overpriced consoles.

[Big Fo]

Not that it means much absent context, but 14 of the top 20 selling Wii games have been third party games.

Now, see, if the majority of the third party games weren't utter dreck, that would mean a lot more than "six million sellers from Nintendo and everything else after that."

Yeah the whole "omg third parties will never sell games on a nintendo console" thing is a bit overblown. Tiger Woods only got average reviews and sold pretty well here (coming out seven months after 07 on the other consoles) and even better in Europe. RE4 is a two year old game that will make the June top ten. Red Steel and Raving Rabbids are over or close to a million worldwide, Trauma Center: Second Opinion was the biggest seller Atlus has ever had in the US.

Other than RE4 these games fall into the good but not great category (except for Red Steel which got poor reviews) yet have all done well. If third parties make good games they will sell. If they quick port some licensed piece of shit then they shouldn't expect the game to sell like hotcakes.

[KWhit]

Also, does the Wii offer an internet browser?

Yes, a pretty good one too (considering you're browsing without a keyboard/mouse).

I picked it up when it was a free download, but now they're charging for it (something like 5 bucks, I think).

[spleen1015]

Wii may be selling lots of units, but I just don't see any games for the system that have any real staying power outside of maybe Zelda.

Are you talking games that are currently released?

There are games on the way that will definitely have staying power, Mario and Metroid to name a couple.

[TroyF]

My PS2 is still working, but showing it's age. It wouldn't be a big surprise if it quit working tomorrow. The thing to me is that it's been a very good system. Since I had such good luck with it, I'm inclined to stick with the same company. Brand loyalty is something that could help PS3 sales down the line.


The brand loyalty factor is a BIG reason the PS3 has failed spectacularly. With their brand loyalty, it should have locked them into huge release numbers. It should have been right at the Wii level. Instead, they are sucking wind.

Here is the problem with everyone talking about a Sony comeback:

They are over 6 MILLION units behind TWO seperate consoles. That's not something you "fix" in a couple of years. The PS2 never had to worry about that. They competed with the Dreamcast (very briefly at the start) and the Xbox (toward the very end after it was to late for the Xbox to make any kind of a run). The Gamecube? It was the kids system.

Now they are in the hole 6 million units to two companies and those two companies have superior fall/Christmas lineups. They should consider themselves VERY, VERY lucky if they don't go down a ton more this holiday season.

Nintendo and MS aren't just going to stop and roll over for Sony. Their sales have been spectacular (Nintendo) and steady (MS). Even if Sony figures it out, they have a ways to go to resolve this.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Here is the problem with everyone talking about a Sony comeback:

They are over 6 MILLION units behind TWO seperate consoles. That's not something you "fix" in a couple of years.

FWIW.......Sony can (and will) sell a few million units worldwide during the weeks when Metal Gear Solid 4, Final Fantasy XIII, and FF XIII Versus (especially in Asia where MMO's are extremely popular) are released. Now you can argue that Sony is going to have some problems in the short term (next year or so) and will likely just equal the 360 sales while waiting for those games to be released, but the system will have some major titles by the '08 holiday season (and likely a $399 or less price) by that point. They easily could 'fix' that difference in the next 18-24 months if they can get all their major franchises (FF XIII, MGS4, GT5) out in time for that '08 holiday season.

[TroyF]

FWIW.......Sony can (and will) sell a few million units worldwide during the weeks when Metal Gear Solid 4, Final Fantasy XIII, and FF XIII Versus (especially in Asia where MMO's are extremely popular) are released. Now you can argue that Sony is going to have some problems in the short term (next year or so) and will likely just equal the 360 sales while waiting for those games to be released, but the system will have some major titles by the '08 holiday season (and likely a $399 or less price) by that point. They easily could 'fix' that difference in the next 18-24 months if they can get all their major franchises (FF XIII, MGS4, GT5) out in time for that '08 holiday season.

It's just not gonna happen. This gap won't be closed in 18 to 24 months. Just my opinion. . . I could be wildly off base. But I don't see any way in hell it happens.

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm interested to see if there is going to be a "Madden" upswing for the ps3. Last year it was a launch title(I think), but that title a pretty good seller, especially in the first month or so. Perhaps instead of buying the ps2 version, people will finally upgrade to the new console.

I'd expect it to be more of an upswing for the 360 since the NCAA version on the PS3 runs only at 30 FPS compared to 60 on the 360, and there is a quote by an EA exec out there that it will be the same for Madden. There is also another quote out there that Madden may run at 60 FPS on the PS3, but that confusion would seem to push people towards the 360 who were going to upgrade for just that game, or those who definitely wanted the smoother version of NCAA.

[Arles]

It's just not gonna happen. This gap won't be closed in 18 to 24 months. Just my opinion. . . I could be wildly off base. But I don't see any way in hell it happens.
I agree. Don't forget that MS will get a HUGE bump when Halo3 comes out (probably enough to offset or atleast minimize the FF release). They will also get a bump for Madden given they have the most next-gen units out now. Plus, you have the image issue - no one like's to bet on the losing horse and there's a chance that Halo3 + a good holiday season for Wii/XBox starts the PS3 down a path of less relevancy to 3rd parties (esp from an exclusive standpoint).

The PS3 badly needs FF out ASAP. If that slips too far behind Halo on release date, it could be a tough couple years for Sony.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I agree. Don't forget that MS will get a HUGE bump when Halo3 comes out (probably enough to offset or atleast minimize the FF release).

That will be interesting to watch as well. I'm not sure that the bump for Halo will be nearly as significant as some think. I think that most of the people that are Halo fans already have a 360. We'll have to see how that all plays out.

FF is obviously going to create a major bump in all three major gaming regions. I don't think MS can do enough with Halo in North America to offset that bump, but it's certainly not going to hurt MS at all in the short run. They need some good press at this point to offset the articles that continue to come out concerning quality control in the 360.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FYI for those in Europe. It appears that the much-rumored price cut on the PS3 will likely happen at the Leipzig game show in late August. Food for thought if you're waiting for a price cut on the PS3.

[TroyF]

That will be interesting to watch as well. I'm not sure that the bump for Halo will be nearly as significant as some think. I think that most of the people that are Halo fans already have a 360. We'll have to see how that all plays out.

FF is obviously going to create a major bump in all three major gaming regions. I don't think MS can do enough with Halo in North America to offset that bump, but it's certainly not going to hurt MS at all in the short run. They need some good press at this point to offset the articles that continue to come out concerning quality control in the 360.

FYI - MS isn't trying to win the worldwide console war. They know they have no chance in hell in Japan. They are trying to win the US and Euro markets. They also didn't expect to "win" this round in either of those countries. They wanted to strip some market share away and start making some money next year or the year after to set themselves up for the next gen.

They never counted on Sony bumbling the release of the PS3 so badly to where they could win those markets. Even with Japan, MS has a very, very good chance of beating Sony this round, even in the long haul. This is more than they ever could have hoped to expect.

[gstelmack]

That will be interesting to watch as well. I'm not sure that the bump for Halo will be nearly as significant as some think. I think that most of the people that are Halo fans already have a 360. We'll have to see how that all plays out.

FF is obviously going to create a major bump in all three major gaming regions. I don't think MS can do enough with Halo in North America to offset that bump, but it's certainly not going to hurt MS at all in the short run. They need some good press at this point to offset the articles that continue to come out concerning quality control in the 360.

I don't get this. Halo 3 won't cause a bump because all fans already have 360s, but all the FF fans don't already have PS3s? What's the difference here that makes you say that? Why wouldn't a bunch of Halo fans have held off on buying the 360 until 3 came out?

[Izulde]

Are you talking games that are currently released?

There are games on the way that will definitely have staying power, Mario and Metroid to name a couple.

Currently released, yes. Mario and Metroid will indeed have staying power for most gamers, I agree.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I don't get this. Halo 3 won't cause a bump because all fans already have 360s, but all the FF fans don't already have PS3s? What's the difference here that makes you say that? Why wouldn't a bunch of Halo fans have held off on buying the 360 until 3 came out?

Most of my friends that have 360's are Halo fans. They went ahead and purchased the console for either next-gen sports games last year or Gears of War, knowing that they would eventually have Halo 3 as well.

There's a lot of people holding off on any PS3 purchase until it's confirmed (basically when it's released) that it's a PS3 exclusive. It's even moreso that way in Japan. The price drop will get a few to jump, but the majority will wait until the big titles are released or they get one for Christmas (so they don't have to pay for it themselves).

[MikeVic]

I don't get this. Halo 3 won't cause a bump because all fans already have 360s, but all the FF fans don't already have PS3s? What's the difference here that makes you say that? Why wouldn't a bunch of Halo fans have held off on buying the 360 until 3 came out?

The one friend of mine that wants a PS3 for MGS4, already bought one at launch. So... based on my knowledge, I'm not sure how much of a spike MGS4 and FF will have for the PS3, or Halo 3 for the 360. But I'll guess it does spike. :)

[Fidatelo]

Honest question: has any system ever come from behind to win a 'generation' when behind by a significant amount after the first year?

I've always had the impression that the first year is make-or-break for a system, and if it isn't Top 2 at that point it never will be.

[Ksyrup]

I don't have any console yet (haven't since Super Nintendo), but that's what I'm thinking about getting. Cheap, established base of games, plus cutting edge matters little to me......especially since I'm not sure how much I'll like console games.

This is exactly where I was last October. Hadn't had a console in years, didn't care necessarily about being cutting edge, really just wanted it for Guitar Hero. Since then, I've added about a dozen games, mostly older, cheap games, and have enjoyed the system as a casual gamer. I'm not sure when I'll consider getting a next gen, but my guess is probably at the same point I got the PS2 - towards the end of its cycle, when the "next big thing" is on its way.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Honest question: has any system ever come from behind to win a 'generation' when behind by a significant amount after the first year?

I've always had the impression that the first year is make-or-break for a system, and if it isn't Top 2 at that point it never will be.

I'm not sure we've had a situation even remotely similar to this before. We've got a new 'underpowered' system selling extremely well and a last-gen workhorse that continues to sell more units than either of the 'next-gen' systems. Some would question from those numbers whether the 'next generation' has even started yet. It appears that most consumers are more than happy with the last-gen technology right now.

[Synovia]

I'm not sure we've had a situation even remotely similar to this before. We've got a new 'underpowered' system selling extremely well and a last-gen workhorse that continues to sell more units than either of the 'next-gen' systems. Some would question from those numbers whether the 'next generation' has even started yet. It appears that most consumers are more than happy with the last-gen technology right now.

People keep bringing up the "Wii is underpowered" thing. This seems another case where the big guys (and the supreme geeks) just dont get it. The Public doesnt want $600 graphics cards. The public doesnt want cutting edge. They want good, at a good price.

People keep pushing the "Wii isnt HD" thing. The percentage of homes with HDTVs is still under 20%. Most people DONT CARE if the system supports HD. Most people DONT CARE about HDDVD, or Blu-Ray. They just know they dont want to spend $400+ for a videogame. They want a system thats fun to play, and is reasonably priced. The PS3 isnt either one of those(no games). The Wii is both. The 360 is fun to play, but for most of us, is STILL too expensive.

I was a Sony Fanboy. I owned a PS. I Owned a PSOne. I Owned a PS2. I owned a PSP. I own a sony digital camera, and a sony digital camcorder. I bought a Wii back in February. In March, I dropped my PS2 and all my PS2/PS1 games off at my brother's house. Sony REALLY blew it this generation.


The longer FF13 slips back, the more I think its NOT going to be a PS3 exclusive.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

People keep bringing up the "Wii is underpowered" thing. This seems another case where the big guys (and the supreme geeks) just dont get it. The Public doesnt want $600 graphics cards. The public doesnt want cutting edge. They want good, at a good price.

I think you missed my point. I put quotes around the word 'underpowered' for a reason. People argue that, but I was indicating that I didn't agree with that argument. 'Underpowered' is only in the eye of the given consumer making the purchase.

I do find fault with your argument that the public doesn't want cutting edge. Millions of 60 GB PS3's or premium 360 would be flying off the shelves if they were priced at the $250 price point that the Wii currently occupies. People want cutting edge, they just don't want it at the price it's currently selling, especially when there's affordable alternatives like the PS2 and Wii to keep them busy until the prices do fall.

[Synovia]

I think you missed my point. I put quotes around the word 'underpowered' for a reason. People argue that, but I was indicating that I didn't agree with that argument. 'Underpowered' is only in the eye of the given consumer making the purchase.

I do find fault with your argument that the public doesn't want cutting edge. Millions of 60 GB PS3's or premium 360 would be flying off the shelves if they were priced at the $250 price point that the Wii currently occupies. People want cutting edge, they just don't want it at the price it's currently selling, especially when there's affordable alternatives like the PS2 and Wii to keep them busy until the prices do fall.
I was trying to use your post as a jump off point more than contradict it. I'm just not that clear.

You can't seperate cutting edge and the associated price of cutting edge. 640mb graphics cards would be flying off the shelves at Best Buy if they were priced at $99. But theyre not, theyre $599.

Honestly, for the average family, the Wii is STILL too expensive, and thats why the PS2 is selling so well. Sony/MS just dont realize that most families dont have an extra $600 sitting around. Right now, a Wii will cost you $400 (system, 2nd controller setup, 2 games, etc). Thats STILL too much for most people. The same thing with the PS2 costs you $150. Thats what people want to spend. The PS3 being about $800 with an extra controller, cables, game, etc, is absurd.


FWIW, If the PS3 was $250, I STILL think the Wii would be outselling it. The Wii opens up gaming to a whole bunch of people who weren't previously targets.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Honestly, for the average family, the Wii is STILL too expensive, and thats why the PS2 is selling so well. Sony/MS just dont realize that most families dont have an extra $600 sitting around. Right now, a Wii will cost you $400 (system, 2nd controller setup, 2 games, etc). Thats STILL too much for most people. The same thing with the PS2 costs you $150. Thats what people want to spend. The PS3 being about $800 with an extra controller, cables, game, etc, is absurd.


FWIW, If the PS3 was $250, I STILL think the Wii would be outselling it. The Wii opens up gaming to a whole bunch of people who weren't previously targets.

Agree fully with your first statement. Totally disagree with your second statement. The PS3's $600 release price was a HUGE turnoff to anyone who already owned another system and a huge price barrier to anyone who had any notion of owning a PS3. My point is not that the PS3 would be blowing the Wii out of the water by any means, but the Wii wouldn't be winning by anything close to the substantial margin that it holds right now. The 360 would sell just as well at $250.

[Synovia]

Agree fully with your first statement. Totally disagree with your second statement. The PS3's $600 release price was a HUGE turnoff to anyone who already owned another system and a huge price barrier to anyone who had any notion of owning a PS3. My point is not that the PS3 would be blowing the Wii out of the water by any means, but the Wii wouldn't be winning by anything close to the substantial margin that it holds right now. The 360 would sell just as well at $250.

I agree that the gap wouldnt be as wide, but I still think there'd be a gap. The Wii appeals to a whole segment of gamers that the other two options dont. If the Ps3 debuted at $250, I agree. But dropping the price to $250 right now still woudnt get them back in. Theres too many people who budget for 1 system, and have already made that purchase.

I'm a hardcore gamer. I own a Wii now. Why? Because the PS3/360 can't keep up with my PC, and are more expensive. The Wii gives me something totally different.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I agree that the gap wouldnt be as wide, but I still think there'd be a gap. The Wii appeals to a whole segment of gamers that the other two options dont.

I'm a hardcore gamer. I own a Wii now. Why? Because the PS3/360 can't keep up with my PC, and are more expensive. The Wii gives me something totally different.

I own both a PS3 and a Wii. I use the PS3 for my personal gaming and bring out the Wii for parties. I have a PC, but I can't stand using it for anything more than text sim gaming. Every game requires a new card here or a new driver there. Way too much of a pain in the ass for my taste. I just upgrade to a new laptop every 5 years or so for text sim purposes.

[Synovia]

Lol, thats because you're using laptops. A $2500 laptop can't keep up with a $600 PC

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Epic Games president has announced that Unreal Tournament 2007 will have cross-platform play for the PS3 and PC. The 360 games will be separate on the Live server. Interesting move as Microsoft has been strongly advocating the ease of cross platform gaming between the 360 and PC. Microsoft may have to change their stance on mods to avoid being shut out of cross-platform play on games where mods are available. Interesting situation to watch to see if any other developers use mods on the PS3 or if it's just an isolated situation.

[Ksyrup]

People keep pushing the "Wii isnt HD" thing. The percentage of homes with HDTVs is still under 20%. Most people DONT CARE if the system supports HD. Most people DONT CARE about HDDVD, or Blu-Ray. They just know they dont want to spend $400+ for a videogame. They want a system thats fun to play, and is reasonably priced. The PS3 isnt either one of those(no games). The Wii is both. The 360 is fun to play, but for most of us, is STILL too expensive.

I've got 1 HD TV, but I wouldn't hook up my console to it even if I had one that was HD. The console is in the basement, and that's where it will stay. In fact, I don't even have it hooked up to the internet.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lol, thats because you're using laptops. A $2500 laptop can't keep up with a $600 PC

I have two desktop computers as well. I understand that a laptop isn't as easy to modify for cheap. Desktops are expensive as well. You can spend way over $800 to get a good gaming experience on your PC.

[SackAttack]

Honest question: has any system ever come from behind to win a 'generation' when behind by a significant amount after the first year?

I've always had the impression that the first year is make-or-break for a system, and if it isn't Top 2 at that point it never will be.

The difficult part of assessing that question is that, when you think about it, we're in the 7th generation or so of hardware, depending on how you reckon it, but there have really only been three generations - since 1996 or so - where you actually had more than two viable competitors at any given time.

The last remotely analogous situation I can think of was the 16-bit era. Sega launched Genesis in '89, and on the strength of Sonic the Hedgehog and EA Sports, it raced out to a significant market share over the previously dominant Nintendo hegemony. Nintendo finally got into the 16-bit game in 1991, and ultimately wound up with 55% of the market share.

That sort of addresses the latter point - first year isn't necessarily make-or-break, but it is incredibly circumstantial. If you have three competing machines, and two of them sell very well, you'd better have a damn compelling case to make to the public for why they should also buy machine #3, because just on the strength of not being Top 2 right away you have a tougher row to hoe.

This generation isn't like the last, though; last time, you had three competitors all kind of going after the same market, and while Sony was pretty universally successful, Nintendo and Microsoft kind of traded punches.

This time, Nintendo is universally successful, but they're doing it on the whole "Blue Ocean" marketing strategy. Their success isn't necessarily parasitic with respect to the other two consoles, and so the Wii is not directly inhibiting the success (or lack thereof) of the PlayStation 3.

[MizzouRah]

I don't get this. Halo 3 won't cause a bump because all fans already have 360s, but all the FF fans don't already have PS3s? What's the difference here that makes you say that? Why wouldn't a bunch of Halo fans have held off on buying the 360 until 3 came out?

Don't try to make a valid post with MizzouBBfan, he has ps3 glasses, always will. Most of his posts make no f'n sense, yet he still tries to vailidate the exsistance of the ps3.

I'm so tired of his console sales, game sales, and general "360 sucks" and "ps3 totally rulz duDez" posts.... although we still have the U of Missouri in common.. go figure.

[WVUFAN]

Do most think it's the price that's kept the PS3 in 4th place, or it is the fact the the Wii is more easily accessable to non-gamers?

I mean, do you think the PS3 would have Wii-like numbers if the PS3 was, say a $300 system?

[spleen1015]

Do most think it's the price that's kept the PS3 in 4th place, or it is the fact the the Wii is more easily accessable to non-gamers?

I mean, do you think the PS3 would have Wii-like numbers if the PS3 was, say a $300 system?

I think the price and the lack of quality games is the reason why the PS3 is staying on store shelves.

For me, I don't think I would have one at $300 either. I got a 360 at launch and shouldn't have. None of the launch titles justified the purchase for me. After the first 2 weeks, mine sat unused until Oblivion came out the following March. So, I don't think I would have made the same mistake with the PS3.

[sterlingice]

5. Who were the 11 people that bought an Xbox?????

Those were like the Japanese numbers for the XBox all last gen. It was comical to see stuff like the Wonderswan and PSX outselling it.

SI

[sterlingice]

FWIW.......Sony can (and will) sell a few million units worldwide during the weeks when Metal Gear Solid 4, Final Fantasy XIII, and FF XIII Versus (especially in Asia where MMO's are extremely popular) are released.

A big fat "No" but thanks for playing. The console numbers for when an "A+" game come out are typically in the low hundred thousand range, even early in a generation. It's not a bad number but it's nothing in the millions. The only time console numbers reach even close to 1M per week are the last week in November and the first couple in December and that's, of course, for an entirely different reason.

SI

[sterlingice]

Honest question: has any system ever come from behind to win a 'generation' when behind by a significant amount after the first year?

I've always had the impression that the first year is make-or-break for a system, and if it isn't Top 2 at that point it never will be.

The difficult part of assessing that question is that, when you think about it, we're in the 7th generation or so of hardware, depending on how you reckon it, but there have really only been three generations - since 1996 or so - where you actually had more than two viable competitors at any given time.

The last remotely analogous situation I can think of was the 16-bit era. Sega launched Genesis in '89, and on the strength of Sonic the Hedgehog and EA Sports, it raced out to a significant market share over the previously dominant Nintendo hegemony. Nintendo finally got into the 16-bit game in 1991, and ultimately wound up with 55% of the market share.

I could be wrong but wasn't Nintendo leading during the N64/PSX days when Mario 64 got them off to a quick start?

SI

[sterlingice]

This time, Nintendo is universally successful, but they're doing it on the whole "Blue Ocean" marketing strategy. Their success isn't necessarily parasitic with respect to the other two consoles, and so the Wii is not directly inhibiting the success (or lack thereof) of the PlayStation 3.

You know, as much as I love Reggie and his whole talk of Blue Ocean, I've seen a couple of statistics about how realistically, they're pulling in a little bit of non-gamer market but with the relatively high price point ($250 is still quite a bit), they're mostly just stealing from other systems.

SI

[Atocep]

That will be interesting to watch as well. I'm not sure that the bump for Halo will be nearly as significant as some think. I think that most of the people that are Halo fans already have a 360. We'll have to see how that all plays out.

FF is obviously going to create a major bump in all three major gaming regions. I don't think MS can do enough with Halo in North America to offset that bump, but it's certainly not going to hurt MS at all in the short run. They need some good press at this point to offset the articles that continue to come out concerning quality control in the 360.

We went over this in another thread. Halo 2, on a system that wasn't as successful as the 360 and was being dominated by the PS2, still led to a boost of roughly 1 million or so consoles.

Halo 3 is the first Halo to be released on the 360, I think you'll see similar numbers.

I really think you've OD'd on the PS3 Kool-Aid or something because the blatant fanboyism is getting ridiculous.

[sterlingice]

Anyone see Microsoft's news for the past week?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20070720/tc_usatoday/microsoftearningsupvistaandofficedoingwell
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/806/806886p1.html

Most notably:

"Microsoft announced July 5 that it would take a $1.1 billion charge to extend warranties on Xbox 360 consoles that were malfunctioning at a high rate. It had sold 11.6 million consoles as of June 30, shy of its forecast of 12 million.

What's more, Peter Moore, who oversaw the Xbox business, abruptly resigned this week to join game maker Electronic Arts. "

"As expected, the recent extension of the 360 warranty resulted in an increased operating loss of $1.2 billion, partially offset by decreasing manufacturing costs for the console.

Revenue increased for the full fiscal year, however, by 28 percent to $6.1 billion. Specifically, software revenue increased by 19 percent to $650 million. Again, though, operating loss increased by 47 percent to $1.9 billion."

So, as successful as the XBox 360 is in theory, they lost almost $2B on it this past year.

SI

[Big Fo]

They might mean sold to retailers in that 11.6 million.

[SackAttack]

I could be wrong but wasn't Nintendo leading during the N64/PSX days when Mario 64 got them off to a quick start?

SI

There's all kinds of distinctions I can make there that really separate the mid-90s from the current market.

1) We term that the N64/PSX days now, but Sony was really an unknown quantity, a newcomer to the market. Early on it was widely considered to be more of a two-horse race - Sega and Nintendo - since those had been the main combatants in the previous generation.

Sega was not a complete unknown in the 16-bit generation. Their Mega Drive/Master System did very well in Europe and in South America, so they at least had something to build off of.

The ball got dropped by Sega launching their system six months early with no games, and by Nintendo failing to follow Super Mario 64 up with anything of note, either on the first-party or third-party fronts. Sony picked up that ball and ran like they stole something.

2) One of the ways they did that was by cultivating third-party relationships with favorable licensing terms (one of the ways Sega stole 45% of Nintendo's market share in the previous generation before trying to emulate Nintendo's licensing policies). Additionally, optical media gave them a price advantage over N64's cartridges - one of the factors that allowed them to seduce Final Fantasy away from Nintendo - and they enjoyed an architecture that developers found easier to work with than Saturn's.

This time around, they find themselves in the opposite boat. Instead of seducing third parties away from their rivals, they're finding those third parties increasingly either making titles exclusive to non-Sony consoles, or at least committing a form of e-bigamy by putting the game on PS3 and Xbox 360. The latter isn't necessarily Sony's fault, and speaks more to the financial dynamics of this generation than to anything wrong with the PlayStation itself, but you have to view that as either a direct hurdle or the removal of a previous advantage.

3) Ultimately Sony had one strong competitor to deal with in that generation. Sega shot themselves in the foot with the aborted 32X launch, and went downhill from there. This time around, Nintendo's raking in the dollars like they're going out of style, and Microsoft not only has the marketplace presence Sega was attempting to establish with the Saturn, but they have significantly greater financial resources to draw upon.

4) Sony beat Nintendo to the market. They hit American shores on 9/2/95, while the N64 didn't even hit shelves until over a year later, on September 29 the following year. Additionally, their pricing was in line with the competition. If memory serves, N64 launched at around $199. Saturn launched at $399 at E3 '95, while Sony announced a launch price point of $299 to sort of blunt the impact of the surprise launch announcement by Sega.

This time around, Sony was last to market, and with a moderate price disadvantage against Microsoft, and a significant price disadvantage against Nintendo. You can talk about the system being "future-proof" and a great value for the money, and I'll even concede those points for the purpose of this discussion.

Point is, Wii's been selling like crazy all year round because of its attractive price point compared to its rivals. If Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 were closer to Nintendo in pricing, I wonder if we'd see that phenomenon. The PlayStation 3 is not the 3DO, but it's worth noting that the $699 price point on 3DO scared away an awful lot of people.

Heck, I'm fairly certain Microsoft has sold more consoles north of $299 than any console manufacturer in history.

Wikipedia seems to back me up on that, as the Saturn - which launched at $399, remember - apparently didn't quite hit the 10 million mark.

I could keep going, but I think the essential point has been made - the market dynamic was very different in 1995 than it was in 1989, so the Genesis/PlayStation comparisons just aren't similar enough to be worth discussing in this context. Additionally, to tie the PlayStation 3 back into that general argument, their market situation and obstacles - of their own making or otherwise - are significantly more cumbersome than anything the Genesis or PlayStation had to overcome.

If Sony winds up 2nd in this race, it will be a damn fine example of bootstrapping. If they finish on top in this generation, it will be the video game equivalent of the rope-a-dope, and one of the two greatest comebacks the industry has ever seen. I'm not sure if it would top Nintendo single-handedly reviving a moribund industry in 1984, but it would be no worse than #2 to that.

[SackAttack]

Dola,

I should probably give Microsoft an asterisk on that whole "more consoles north of $299" bit, just because I haven't seen a sales breakdown between the Core and Premium/Elite SKUs. I think it's safe to say they will surpass 9.58 million Premium/Elites sold, but they may not have done so quite yet.

I've contacted Microsoft to see if I can get a breakdown on those numbers, but I don't know if they'll release them.

[TroyF]

Anyone see Microsoft's news for the past week?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20070720/tc_usatoday/microsoftearningsupvistaandofficedoingwell
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/806/806886p1.html

Most notably:

"Microsoft announced July 5 that it would take a $1.1 billion charge to extend warranties on Xbox 360 consoles that were malfunctioning at a high rate. It had sold 11.6 million consoles as of June 30, shy of its forecast of 12 million.

What's more, Peter Moore, who oversaw the Xbox business, abruptly resigned this week to join game maker Electronic Arts. "

"As expected, the recent extension of the 360 warranty resulted in an increased operating loss of $1.2 billion, partially offset by decreasing manufacturing costs for the console.

Revenue increased for the full fiscal year, however, by 28 percent to $6.1 billion. Specifically, software revenue increased by 19 percent to $650 million. Again, though, operating loss increased by 47 percent to $1.9 billion."

So, as successful as the XBox 360 is in theory, they lost almost $2B on it this past year.

SI

They knew they were going to take a bath on this gen. They knew they'd take a bath on the last gen. I'm not trying to be a fanboy in reverse here, but it's important people understand, MS knew exactly what they were getting into. The goal was always to make money the last few years of this gen and then try to be profitable next gen.

I'm not saying they'll succeed in that, but that was the goal. I could have told you what those numbers would have looked like last year. MS is putting a crapload of money into the gaming division. Not only for the 360 hardware, but all of the software developers they are snapping up. Those exclusives didn't come cheap. Nor did the repair of the 360's. But they've succeeded bigtime in one of their biggets goals. . . slash the Sony market share.

[dawgfan]

Anyone see Microsoft's news for the past week?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20070720/tc_usatoday/microsoftearningsupvistaandofficedoingwell
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/806/806886p1.html

Most notably:

"Microsoft announced July 5 that it would take a $1.1 billion charge to extend warranties on Xbox 360 consoles that were malfunctioning at a high rate. It had sold 11.6 million consoles as of June 30, shy of its forecast of 12 million.

What's more, Peter Moore, who oversaw the Xbox business, abruptly resigned this week to join game maker Electronic Arts. "

"As expected, the recent extension of the 360 warranty resulted in an increased operating loss of $1.2 billion, partially offset by decreasing manufacturing costs for the console.

Revenue increased for the full fiscal year, however, by 28 percent to $6.1 billion. Specifically, software revenue increased by 19 percent to $650 million. Again, though, operating loss increased by 47 percent to $1.9 billion."

So, as successful as the XBox 360 is in theory, they lost almost $2B on it this past year.

SI
Wow - hadn't heard the Peter Moore news; that's a blow for Xbox.

As for the financials, I wonder if those numbers include the profits on 360 games (they get a cut of every 360 game sold) or if it's specific to the hardware side of the business.

[dawgfan]

Not that it means much absent context, but 14 of the top 20 selling Wii games have been third party games.

Now, see, if the majority of the third party games weren't utter dreck, that would mean a lot more than "six million sellers from Nintendo and everything else after that."
That may be, but from what I can find the top 5 Wii sellers have been Nintendo games, with Rayman the highest 3rd party title at just over 1M units sold worldwide. That's certainly a decent number and almost assuredly a profitable game, but the fact is the biggest sellers for the Wii (by a big margin) have been 1st party titles.

It should also be noted that game sales in general are favoring the 360 - there seems to be more games sold per 360 than per Wii. Probably not enough of a difference yet to offset the major differences in hardware costs and the profitability Nintendo is experiencing on the hardware side (Nintendo is surely vastly more profitable at this point with the Wii than MS is with the 360), but it is certainly the more critical factor when projecting what platforms game developers will be focusing on moving forward.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Another interesting thing to watch on the console sales front the next couple of weeks. Sony is releasing a new bundle in Japan with the new release of Hot Shots Golf 5. HSG5 in Japan already has 300,000 preorders. Always been a pretty popular franchise in Japan.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

That may be, but from what I can find the top 5 Wii sellers have been Nintendo games, with Rayman the highest 3rd party title at just over 1M units sold worldwide. That's certainly a decent number and almost assuredly a profitable game, but the fact is the biggest sellers for the Wii (by a big margin) have been 1st party titles.

Agreed. Nintendo is going down the same road they have always used. 1st party games have always been the staple of their console, good or bad. This generation hasn't been any different. I'm somewhat frustrated right now as a Wii owner because I was hoping that might change as I'm not a huge fan of the Mario franchise games in general. I'll hold off judgement until next year when more 3rd party games are supposed to be ready. I'm just hoping they aren't rushed to market.

[gstelmack]

Anyone hear more about Howard Stringer (Sony CEO) calling Steve Jobs "greedy"?

http://www.betanews.com/article/Stringer_Apples_Jobs_is_Greedy/1184951615

Not sure how much credence to lend to this as I haven't seen any of the original bits and haven't seen it on the tech sites I follow regularly, but given the recent foot-in-mouth syndrome from Sony I'm not surprised either.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Another console post of the week by Bill Harris. Discussing the failure rate of the 360 and concerns that it likely is at least 25%, if not more. Also, two new class-action lawsuits (one for disc scratching and one for reliability) have been brought against MS and the 360........

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/07/console-post-of-week-microsoft.html

[MikeVic]

Another console post of the week by Bill Harris. Discussing the failure rate of the 360 and concerns that it likely is at least 25%, if not more. Also, two new class-action lawsuits (one for disc scratching and one for reliability) have been brought against MS and the 360........

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/07/console-post-of-week-microsoft.html

I hope that Skip guy is right and they do a $100 price cut in the fall. :D

I also hope the failure rate goes down a lot.

[spleen1015]

It doesn't change the fact that MS is still kicking PS3's ass and is going to keep doing it with the games that are on the way.

[Eaglesfan27]

Exactly. Gamespot released the top 20 game sales of June. No PS3 titles made the top 20. They were 5 or 6 360 titles in the top 20 (and 5 or 6 Wii titles.)

Actually, here is the list copied from Gamespot:

1. Mario Party 8--Nintendo--Wii
2. Wii Play with Wii Remote--Nintendo--Wii
3. Pokemon Diamond--Nintendo--DS
4. Pokemon Pearl--Nintendo--DS
5. Forza Motorsport 2--Microsoft--Xbox 360
6. Guitar Hero II bundle--Activision--PS2
7. Guitar Hero II bundle--Activision--Xbox 360
8. Pokemon Battle Revolution--Nintendo--Wii
9. Resident Evil Wii Edition--Capcom--Wii
10. The Darkness--2K Games--Xbox 360
11. Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 2--Namco Bandai--PS2
12. Transformers: The Game--Activision--PS2
13. Tenchu Z--Microsoft--Xbox 360
14. New Super Mario Bros.--Nintendo--DS
15. Tomb Raider: Anniversary--Eidos--PS2
16. Super Paper Mario--Nintendo--Wii
17. Transformers: The Game--Activision--Xbox 360
18. MLB '07: The Show--SCEA--PS2
19. Big Brain Academy--Nintendo--Wii
20. DiRT--Codemasters--Xbox 360

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

It doesn't change the fact that MS is still kicking PS3's ass and is going to keep doing it with the games that are on the way.

I know it's more fun to post mindless flames, but the discussion does have merit. If MS incurs further expenses and bad PR in the form of lawsuits or further recalls/warranty extension, it's going to hurt the 360 in a big way. The 360's failure rate is honestly putting the old PS1/PS2 failure rates to shame, and that's saying something.

[Eaglesfan27]

I know it's more fun to post mindless flames, but the discussion does have merit. If MS incurs further expenses and bad PR in the form of lawsuits or further recalls/warranty extension, it's going to hurt the 360 in a big way. The 360's failure rate is honestly putting the old PS1/PS2 failure rates to shame, and that's saying something.


This bad PR has been going on for a long time now, yet the 360 continues to outsell the PS3 by a wide margin.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Exactly. Gamespot released the top 20 game sales of June. No PS3 titles made the top 20. They were 5 or 6 360 titles in the top 20 (and 5 or 6 Wii titles.)

Honestly, the top sales charts don't provide a good measurement of success for a console. As dawgfan had stated before, the key indicator is attach rate to determine how successful a console currently is and how developers will respond to that console. The 360 is in first, Wii in second and PS3 third.

I realize that the order would be similar right now in regards to the top sales chart, but that chart could be misleading. If Sony had 3 of the top 5 at some point in the future with 3 AAA titles coming out quickly, that still wouldn't mean that was the best console. It would just mean that those games were good games. Attach rate is a much better consideration in determining the number of quality games without being weighted by the number of consoles.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This bad PR has been going on for a long time now, yet the 360 continues to outsell the PS3 by a wide margin.

I disagree. The queries by the Australian and EU consumer boards along with the class action lawsuits and MS recent extention of the warranty have all occured in the past 2 months.

Also, the 360 is currently losing on a weekly sales basis in all three major markets.

[MizzouRah]

Another console post of the week by Bill Harris. Discussing the failure rate of the 360 and concerns that it likely is at least 25%, if not more. Also, two new class-action lawsuits (one for disc scratching and one for reliability) have been brought against MS and the 360........

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/07/console-post-of-week-microsoft.html

Which branch of Sony do you work for?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Which branch of Sony do you work for?

Obviously, I work for Sony because I have harshly criticized the management of Sony in addition to their slow price cut. :rolleyes:

I did nothing more than post something that a respected blogger posted about the 360 situation, which is obviously a big topic right now. I certainly think that's relevant to the discussion. Bill Harris wrote a critical assessment of the situation. Is he an employee of Sony too?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Another post by Bill Harris concerning the just released June numbers. PS3, PS2, and Wii sales remain steady or slightly increase. 360 sales fall 33% in the first month after quality control issues hit the mainstream press (European sales fall over 40%). Also, note that these numbers are from last month before the price drop on the PS3.

Also, discussion on 3rd party Wii games and Japanese TV claims that Wii is lowering TV viewership.

Interesting totals regarding top 10 sales by console for the month as well (for EF27)

Wii: 4
PS2: 3
360: 3

Insane that the PS2 is still selling a ton of games. I'm sure games will continue to come out for the console as long as games sell. GH: The 80s will likely sell a lot of copies for the PS2 this month.

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/07/console-post-of-week-supplemental.html

[Eaglesfan27]

And yet, the 360 continues to sell more than twice as many PS3's.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

And yet, the 360 continues to sell more than twice as many PS3's.

Note that is last month, before the PS3 price drop. There's certainly nothing unexpected in that.

[Eaglesfan27]

Insane that the PS2 is still selling a ton of games. I'm sure games will continue to come out for the console as long as games sell. GH: The 80s will likely sell a lot of copies for the PS2 this month.

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/07/console-post-of-week-supplemental.html

That is not surprising. The PS2 is very popular and has such a huge advantage in install base. Of course, it is going to continue to sell games well, particularly among families who cannot afford or do not want to buy a next gen system. You mentioned the attach rate, but that is also abysmal for the PS3 compared to the 360.

[MikeVic]

Another post by Bill Harris concerning the just released June numbers. PS3, PS2, and Wii sales remain steady or slightly increase. 360 sales fall 33% in the first month after quality control issues hit the mainstream press (European sales fall over 40%). Also, note that these numbers are from last month before the price drop on the PS3.

Also, discussion on 3rd party Wii games and Japanese TV claims that Wii is lowering TV viewership.

Interesting totals regarding top 10 sales by console for the month as well (for EF27)

Wii: 4
PS2: 3
360: 3

Insane that the PS2 is still selling a ton of games. I'm sure games will continue to come out for the console as long as games sell. GH: The 80s will likely sell a lot of copies for the PS2 this month.

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/07/console-post-of-week-supplemental.html


I like how you just pick out what makes Sony look good. Harris talks about why he thinks there hasn't been a 360 price drop yet, and it makes sense. Could result in more sales later in the year. He also mentions a good point about 3rd-party Wii games, and the fact that Wii owners want to buy software this generation.

This generation is really interesting. :)

[Bee]

And when sales of the PS3 peaks next month that's not going to be unexpected either. It's what happens in August and September that's going to be interesting.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

That is not surprising. The PS2 is very popular and has such a huge advantage in install base. Of course, it is going to continue to sell games well, particularly among families who cannot afford or do not want to buy a next gen system. You mentioned the attach rate, but that is also abysmal for the PS3 compared to the 360.

The PS2 is the only reason Sony is able to bankroll the bad start for the PS3. Sony is making quite a bit of money off the PS2 with little to no expenses.

I totally agree regarding the attach rate and said so in my post. My only point was that you were using the game sales numbers as a measurement of how good/bad the system was doing. My point is that the attach rate is a much better measure of the success of the console. Game sales charts only indicate how good the game is relative to the competiting games. Also, game sales charts fluctuate greatly, much like weekly movie revenues. Tune in a month later and the list will be filled with all new games, especially as we enter the fall where new, great games come out on a weekly basis.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

And when sales of the PS3 peaks next month that's not going to be unexpected either. It's what happens in August and September that's going to be interesting.

Agreed. We pretty much know that the PS3 is going to pick up a boost of at least 25,000 units a week for the July numbers. Shouldn't be a surprise unless it exceeds that (doubtful).

One interesting thing will be to watch the 360 sales numbers. Early indicators are that the 360 sales have fallen an additional 5K units a week in July in addition to the 33% drop from last month. They need to get those numbers up so they can get rid of the bad units as quickly as possible, as Bill mentioned.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I like how you just pick out what makes Sony look good.

Honestly, there wasn't really anything new about Sony in that post. The overpriced consoles in Australia and EU are well known. The funny part is that, despite having those ridiculous prices, the PS3 is outselling the 360 in both of those regions on a weekly basis and has been since it's release in those regions. I guess those people have nothing better to do with their money.

Bill also mentioned the Sony execs putting their foot in various parts of their body from a PR perspective, but that's not something new or something that anyone disagrees about. Far as I can tell, they're running a company despite a total lack of PR responsibility as a group.

So I suppose these omissions secure me a job at Sony? :)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FINALLY, some MGS4 stuff. Metal Gear Solid gameplay by Kojima..........

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/24/metal-gear-solid-4-gameplay-demo-is-predictably-awesome/

Metal Gear Online betas to start in Japan soon (unfortunately no U.S. users)........

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/24/metal-gear-solid-online-beta-starts-in-japan-this-august/

[gstelmack]

Obviously, I work for Sony because I have harshly criticized the management of Sony in addition to their slow price cut. :rolleyes:

No, you obviously work for Sony because despite all these gaffes and missteps, you still think they are going to win this war.

[gstelmack]

One interesting thing will be to watch the 360 sales numbers. Early indicators are that the 360 sales have fallen an additional 5K units a week in July in addition to the 33% drop from last month.

Which could be because of the rumored price cut having people holding off until it does drop,.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Which could be because of the rumored price cut having people holding off until it does drop,.

The release of Halo 3 may also play a factor in people holding off on their purchase. Either way, I'm sure MS has to be concerned with that big of a drop-off with no real opportunity to drop the price of the console in the next few months given the additional incurred expenses.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

No, you obviously work for Sony because despite all these gaffes and missteps, you still think they are going to win this war.

Doubtful. Sony's goal at this point should just be to pull back to even with the 360 at this point. That would be a major success and passing them would just be gravy on top. I'd be shocked if anyone thought the PS3 was a no-doubter to pass the 360 at any significant level in console sales.

[MizzouRah]

Obviously, I work for Sony because I have harshly criticized the management of Sony in addition to their slow price cut. :rolleyes:

I did nothing more than post something that a respected blogger posted about the 360 situation, which is obviously a big topic right now. I certainly think that's relevant to the discussion. Bill Harris wrote a critical assessment of the situation. Is he an employee of Sony too?

I'm quite capable of reading his blog, I don't need a jb cut and paste job. :rolleyes:

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm quite capable of reading his blog, I don't need a jb cut and paste job. :rolleyes:

Some people might not have seen it, just as I post other articles that people might not have noticed. Not sure why that warrants an attack when I'm simply putting up info to add to the discussion. If you have articles/info that seems to contradict what I put up, feel free to post it. I won't attack you doing that.

[MizzouRah]

Some people might not have seen it, just as I post other articles that people might not have noticed. Not sure why that warrants an attack when I'm simply putting up info to add to the discussion. If you have articles/info that seems to contradict what I put up, feel free to post it. I won't attack you doing that.

I don't know, we're both Mizzou fans, yet I truly do not understand why you feel the need to call out MS and the 360 on every little negative thing that's posted accross the internet.

I can see your eyes light up as you find yet another possible 360 bashing article and I don't understand it.

[KWhit]

I don't know, we're both Mizzou fans, yet I truly do not understand why you feel the need to call out MS and the 360 on every little negative thing that's posted accross the internet.

I can see your eyes light up as you find yet another possible 360 bashing article and I don't understand it.

QFT

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I don't know, we're both Mizzou fans, yet I truly do not understand why you feel the need to call out MS and the 360 on every little negative thing that's posted accross the internet.

I can see your eyes light up as you find yet another possible 360 bashing article and I don't understand it.

I've posted articles and opinions critical of both systems. The MS quality issues are a major discussion item right now. It likely will be until Halo 3 takes some of the glare away from the problem. If you have some other info that offers a different take on the situation or new news that I haven't posted, feel free to post it.

Attacking my posts because you don't like that the system is being portrayed in a bad light doesn't really add all that much to the discussion. If someone posts something negative about the Wii or PS3, you don't see me making a post saying, "why do you always post negative stuff about those systems????". I create a post with another article that may contradict that post or I post why I agree with it. That's how discussion works.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More interesting data in regards to console sales.

---Wii sales appear to have jumped quite significantly this week. Looks like the supply continues to increase.
---PS3 sales hold steady at around 45K and 28K respectively for the third week in a row.
---360 sales dropped 10% in the past week. Xbox 360 week over week are 20% lower in July overall than the June sales numbers. It appears that July will likely be the 360's worst month ever in regards to console sales.

America July 15-21

Wii - 95,470
PS3 - 45,101
360 - 32,345

Europe July 16-22
Wii - 63,564
PS3 - 28,620
360 - 17,827

Here are the sales numbers for 2007 year to date thus far worldwide..........

NDS: 6,639,518
Wii: 4,063,852
PSP: 2,344,147
PS2: 1,947,373
360: 1,366,583
PS3: 1,255,931
GBA: 782,804

Little analysis of what the PS3 has to do to rein in the 360. Let's assume that the 360 roughly has a 8M console lead worldwide that Sony has to make up to draw even. Also, let's assume that the PS3 outsells the 360 by roughly 12K each week in Japan going forward (not a stretch as that's roughly the trend). So, taking this week's numbers, the PS3 will gain the following each week:

Europe: 11K
America: 13K
Japan: 12K

Total: 36K

So, if the PS3 were to outsell the 360 by 36,000 units on a weekly basis every single week, it would draw even with the 360 in roughly 4 1/4 years. This also doesn't factor in that the PS3 is currently on a spike in sales due to the price drop.

Moral of the story: Making up 36K units a week worldwide isn't going to cut it. Sony has to try to catch up quicker than that. Another price drop of $100 in addition to the big titles to boost sales is a must, sooner rather than later. MGS4 has gameplay video and it's online companion is heading into beta testing. Sony has to hope that means that good progress is being made to get that game out on the console.

[MJ4H]

Moral of the story: Making up 36K units a week worldwide isn't going to cut it.

It also isn't going to happen. 12k/week may be possible in Japan where the 360 is largely ignored, but the sample size is rather small for weeks with those kind of numbers elsewhere to predict that this will continue anywhere but Japan.

It could happen, but you can't just assume it like you can for Japan.

[Eaglesfan27]

Exactly. Once the 499 60 GB units run out (which will still probably be sometime next year) there is no reason to suspect that the PS3 will maintain these modest gains in sales.

Meanwhile, the 360 has so many top flight titles coming out that sales are going to be spurred, particularly if a rumored price cut comes in the next few months.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Exactly. Once the 499 60 GB units run out (which will still probably be sometime next year) there is no reason to suspect that the PS3 will maintain these modest gains in sales.

Meanwhile, the 360 has so many top flight titles coming out that sales are going to be spurred, particularly if a rumored price cut comes in the next few months.

I would be shocked if that 80 GB system didn't drop to at least $499 once the 60 GB systems are exhausted. But $499 isn't going to be good enough in the grand scheme of things. As I said, they'll have to do more.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Confirmation from a Sony executive that a deal with Konami was reached just before E3 and that MGS4 is a PS3 exclusive. The only problem is that this is a Sony executive, so it must be taken with a grain of salt....... :)

http://kotaku.com/gaming/addendum/eleventh-reason-why-mgs4-is-ps3-only-282124.php

[spleen1015]

I feel like I should thank Sony for not giving me a reason to spend hundreds of dollars on the PS3.

Thanks, d00dZ!!!!

[Maple Leafs]

Wonder if the Xbox drop is due to people in my situation: finally decided to get one, ready to hand over our money, then they release the Elite which you can't freaking find anywhere. I'm not going to buy the "worse" model, and I can't find the "good" one, so the money goes back in the wallet.

I'm really getting tired of this "scarcity" nonsense.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Microsoft executive predicts that there will be a 40 GB PS3 for sale by Thanksgiving. These companies often scout each other out, so I'm sure that MS believes this will happen in the near future. This doesn't shock me at all and it's probably a good idea. Produce a bare-bones Blu-ray player/gaming machine with no backward compatibility and no wireless and sell it for $399. It almost makes too much sense.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/archive/2007/07/25/another-day-another-microserf-another-bet-on-sony-hardware.aspx

[astrosfan64]

I have a Wii and I can't stand it. My daughter doesn't like it either. She has been playing games since she was about 2 and half. She is now 5 and half. She likes her gamecube alot more then the Wii, even though she can play her gamecube games on her Wii.

She hates the controller the scheme for the Wii. In fact pretty much any "real" gamer out there doesn't like the Wii too much. After the initial wow factor, I was like this sucks. I would rather just push A to jump.

[spleen1015]

In fact pretty much any "real" gamer out there doesn't like the Wii too much. After the initial wow factor, I was like this sucks. I would rather just push A to jump.

I guess I'm not a 'real' gamer.

[astrosfan64]

XBOX 360 = two big advantages XNA/XBOXLIVE and Halo 3 is coming. Though I personally can't stand shooters on consoles the pleebs love it.

[astrosfan64]

I guess I'm not a 'real' gamer.

I would agree

[rkmsuf]

I guess I'm not a 'real' gamer.

wtf is a "real" gamer?

[spleen1015]

wtf is a "real" gamer?

Everyone who dislikes the Wii.

[sabotai]

I guess I'm not a 'real' gamer.

Neither am I or all of my friends, apparently...

[MJ4H]

Anyone that agrees with astrofan is a real gamer, obviously.

[MizzouRah]

Confirmation from a Sony executive that a deal with Konami was reached just before E3 and that MGS4 is a PS3 exclusive. The only problem is that this is a Sony executive, so it must be taken with a grain of salt....... :)

http://kotaku.com/gaming/addendum/eleventh-reason-why-mgs4-is-ps3-only-282124.php

If true, that kind of sucks. After watching this: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/714/714044/vids_1.html

I'm kind of liking what I see... and I've never been into MGS before.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This could be interesting. This likely will mean a big role in Sony or none at all. From Jaffe's blog........

Friday (July 27th)-at 12:01am just to be dramatic- I will post news of my future. Again, it's a big deal for me personally and it does deal with my work. So this week I'll be able to spill SOME of the beans...and I'll prob. spew about how I'm dealing with this very, very big change in my work life.

[astrosfan64]

Neither am I or all of my friends, apparently...

You went to gateway so your point is moot.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

You went to gateway so your point is moot.

I fear a St. Louis turf war just broke out in a video game thread.

[spleen1015]

I fear a St. Louis turf war just broke out in a video game thread.

All because of the Wii.

[MikeVic]

This calls for a video game character draft.

[astrosfan64]

On a serious note, can any of you name One Game that is good for the Wii that is unique to that system?

Is Zelda "which is the best game on the system" better because of the controll scheme? I would say absolutely not.

Is Paper Mario better because of the control scheme? Again, I would say no.

Is Mario Party better on the Wii then on Gamecube? Again, I would say no and my daughter and her little friends who play it would agree also.

The best game made for the system, is the free one that came with the Wii. There is absolutely no meat to the Wii it is a gimic and they have a great "franchise". The are great at marketing and even my "parents" think it is neat.

Are my parents 68 and 60 years old going to buy a ton of games for it. No.


My definition of a "real" gamer is playing at least 25 hours plus a week. Owning a computer and at least one console. Buying 1 to 2 games a month.

A casual gamer is what the Wii attracts. Which is nice, but definately not the system for me or most "real" gamers.

[astrosfan64]

I fear a St. Louis turf war just broke out in a video game thread.

Actually a NJ turf war :)

[rkmsuf]

Conclusion:

The world needs less "real" gamers.


Say hi to your "parents" for me.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Actually a NJ turf war :)

Well, that's not a surprise then. I've been to Newark to fill my gas tank. I'm lucky to be alive.

[spleen1015]

I play more than 25 hours a week.

I have a NES, SNES, Wii, 360 and PS2 all hooked up to tvs. I have a PC specifically built to play games.

I have some where in the neighborhood of 500 games for all of these systems combined.

I like the Wii.

[astrosfan64]

Conclusion:

The world needs less "real" gamers.


Say hi to your "parents" for me.


Yeah, instead we need guys with 16k message board posts.

You are the ultimate "real" message board warrior.

Say hi to your girlfriend for me. (right or left hand)?

[astrosfan64]

I play more than 25 hours a week.

I have a NES, SNES, Wii, 360 and PS2 all hooked up to tvs. I have a PC specifically built to play games.

I have some where in the neighborhood of 500 games for all of these systems combined.

I like the Wii.

Which system do you like best?

[rkmsuf]

I play more than 25 hours a week.

I have a NES, SNES, Wii, 360 and PS2 all hooked up to tvs. I have a PC specifically built to play games.

I have some where in the neighborhood of 500 games for all of these systems combined.

I like the Wii.

I guess 25 hours a week is 4 hours a day so not as hardcore as I originally thought.

But do you buy 2 games a month? Hmmm...hmmmm?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

My definition of a "real" gamer is playing at least 25 hours plus a week. Owning a computer and at least one console. Buying 1 to 2 games a month.

A casual gamer is what the Wii attracts. Which is nice, but definately not the system for me or most "real" gamers.

Yikes. That would likely qualify me as a gamer that has one too many children then. No way I'm hitting that requirement.

I do actually agree with your point regarding games for the Wii. The key component for the Wii right now is word of mouth and Wii Sports. We obviously haven't reached the point where those two things wear out their usefulness. I have a Wii and I'm feeling a bit hosed right now. There's just not much available outside of some Nintendo franchises reworked for the control scheme.

[rkmsuf]

Yeah, instead we need guys with 16k message board posts.

You are the ultimate "real" message board warrior.

Say hi to your girlfriend for me. (right or left hand)?

I'm amphibeous.

[BrianD]

Every now and then I am reminded why it is a bad idea to click that "view post" link and not just trust my reasons for ignoring someone in the first place...

[gstelmack]

My definition of a "real" gamer is playing at least 25 hours plus a week. Owning a computer and at least one console. Buying 1 to 2 games a month.

A casual gamer is what the Wii attracts. Which is nice, but definately not the system for me or most "real" gamers.

Dang, I'm screwed because I only get to play a few hours per week (I don't think I get to count the 40+ spent making them).

You do realise that your "casual" gamer is actually a pretty big market right now, don't you, and may actually play for 25 hours during the week, just not the type of game you mean? Seriously, there are people playing Bejeweled to death and games like it (Poker has actually been popular online for a LONG time, pre-dating even the popularity of the Internet). The Wii could "suck" for "real gamers" as you say and still win this war and make a ton of money in the process.

[rkmsuf]

Is irony bragging about how much they play video games and then talking about someone's girlfriend?

Or is that another term?

[KWhit]

The whole "real gamer" argument is obnoxious.

[KWhit]

On a serious note, can any of you name One Game that is good for the Wii that is unique to that system?

Is Zelda "which is the best game on the system" better because of the controll scheme? I would say absolutely not.

Is Paper Mario better because of the control scheme? Again, I would say no.

Is Mario Party better on the Wii then on Gamecube? Again, I would say no and my daughter and her little friends who play it would agree also.

The best game made for the system, is the free one that came with the Wii. There is absolutely no meat to the Wii it is a gimic and they have a great "franchise". The are great at marketing and even my "parents" think it is neat.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Sounds like you're making two different arguments.

But Resident Evil 4 is an outstanding game that is definitely better because of its control scheme on the Wii.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The whole "real gamer" argument is obnoxious.

Well, you're obviously not a real gamer then......

:D

[spleen1015]

Which system do you like best?

The PS2 is by far the best of those systems because of the amount of quality games. Of the next gen systems, I like the 360 the best because it has a lot of good games.

For the Wii, I have only played Wii Sports, Zelda, Paper Mario and Mario Party. I've liked all of them. The games on the horizon will kick ass as well, especially Metroid Prime 3. Metroid Prime on the GC is the best FPS ever made, on any system.

[Eaglesfan27]

The whole "real gamer" argument is obnoxious.

Completely agree.

[Synovia]

On a serious note, can any of you name One Game that is good for the Wii that is unique to that system?

Is Zelda "which is the best game on the system" better because of the controll scheme? I would say absolutely not.

Is Paper Mario better because of the control scheme? Again, I would say no.

Is Mario Party better on the Wii then on Gamecube? Again, I would say no and my daughter and her little friends who play it would agree also.

The best game made for the system, is the free one that came with the Wii. There is absolutely no meat to the Wii it is a gimic and they have a great "franchise". The are great at marketing and even my "parents" think it is neat.

Are my parents 68 and 60 years old going to buy a ton of games for it. No.


My definition of a "real" gamer is playing at least 25 hours plus a week. Owning a computer and at least one console. Buying 1 to 2 games a month.

A casual gamer is what the Wii attracts. Which is nice, but definately not the system for me or most "real" gamers.

I've played twilight princess with both the Wii controls, and a gamecube. It most definitely IS better on the Wii.

You may be right that 60 year old parents aren't going to buy a lot of games, but what console do you think little Jimmy is going to get when xmas rolls around?

You need to get out of your basement more. Plenty of us are real gamers, and love the Wii. Frankly, the 360/Ps3 are just the same shitty rehash of the previous systems, with faster processors. Atleast the Wii had the balls to try something different.

[spleen1015]

I guess 25 hours a week is 4 hours a day so not as hardcore as I originally thought.

But do you buy 2 games a month? Hmmm...hmmmm?

I used to buy a lot more than that.

Now that I am playing WoW, I rarely buy any games because that $15 monthly fee makes me play WoW exclusively.

Oh and I volunteered most of my monthly gaming $$$ to buy my daughter a puppy.

[astrosfan64]

Dang, I'm screwed because I only get to play a few hours per week (I don't think I get to count the 40+ spent making them).

You do realise that your "casual" gamer is actually a pretty big market right now, don't you, and may actually play for 25 hours during the week, just not the type of game you mean? Seriously, there are people playing Bejeweled to death and games like it (Poker has actually been popular online for a LONG time, pre-dating even the popularity of the Internet). The Wii could "suck" for "real gamers" as you say and still win this war and make a ton of money in the process.

Gstelmack:
I'm not arguing that point. The Wii is doing very well and might continue to do very well, but it is not a next generation system. It is essentially the Gamecube with a new controller. I like Zelda and Super Paper Mario, but I would rather use a traditional controller.

[spleen1015]

Gstelmack:
I'm not arguing that point. The Wii is doing very well and might continue to do very well, but it is not a next generation system. It is essentially the Gamecube with a new controller. I like Zelda and Super Paper Mario, but I would rather use a traditional controller.

Nintendo has admitted that they aren't trying to compete with the 360 or PS3. They are targeting folks that don't play video games.

That doesn't mean 'real' gamers won't like it.

[astrosfan64]

Is irony bragging about how much they play video games and then talking about someone's girlfriend?

Or is that another term?

No irony is making fun of people who play games for hours but in turn having over 16k in posts on a single forum. The parent comment is what brought out the girlfriend remark.

[Eaglesfan27]

Here are the sales figures for NCAA College Football in its opening week which I found interesting. 360 sales dominated the PS3 and it's the first year that sales have been higher for the "next gen" consoles:

NCAA 08

360-361,541
PS3-82,870
TOTAL: 444,411

PS2-185,124
Xbox-28,645
TOTAL: 213,769

GRAND TOTAL:658,180


Now compare that to last year's opening week sales figures:

NCAA 07

360-293,330
PS3-n/a
TOTAL: 293,330

PS2-417,157
Xbox-133,996
TOTAL: 551,153

GRAND TOTAL:844,483

sources:
http://www.vgchartz.com/aweekly.php?date=38921 (http://www.vgchartz.com/aweekly.php?date=38921)
http://www.vgchartz.com/aweekly.php (http://www.vgchartz.com/aweekly.php)

[rkmsuf]

Oh and I volunteered most of my monthly gaming $$$ to buy my daughter a puppy.


awwwwwwww. score one for you.

[Synovia]

Gstelmack:
I'm not arguing that point. The Wii is doing very well and might continue to do very well, but it is not a next generation system. It is essentially the Gamecube with a new controller. I like Zelda and Super Paper Mario, but I would rather use a traditional controller.

The Wii is NOT a gamecube with a different controller.

[spleen1015]

awwwwwwww. score one for you.

That puppy gets paid off this money, but then I have to use that $$$ to finance my trip to Cooperstown. :D

[astrosfan64]

Nintendo has admitted that they aren't trying to compete with the 360 or PS3. They are targeting folks that don't play video games.

That doesn't mean 'real' gamers won't like it.

I like the same three games you listed on the Wii.

Two of games are available on the Gamecube and are just as good.

I think the word 'real' was not the best choice. How about dedicated gamer? As in a person's primary form of entertainment or hobby, outside of their family etc...

My mistake, reading back over these posts I think the word real put people in the wrong place for the point I was trying to make.

[spleen1015]

I like the same three games you listed on the Wii.

Two of games are available on the Gamecube and are just as good.

I think the word 'real' was not the best choice. How about dedicated gamer? As in a person's primary form of entertainment or hobby, outside of their family etc...

My mistake, reading back over these posts I think the word real put people in the wrong place for the point I was trying to make.

I think it is just safe to say that it is not for some folks.

Besides work, playing video games is my 2nd biggest time waster. I play more than I sleep.

[rkmsuf]

No irony is making fun of people who play games for hours but in turn having over 16k in posts on a single forum. The parent comment is what brought out the girlfriend remark.

My posts are so brief I think I made 16k in the time it took you to finish GTA3....the second time.

Anywho, to each his own. Rock on real gamer Wii hating dude.

[astrosfan64]

Here are the sales figures for NCAA College Football in its opening week which I found interesting. 360 sales dominated the PS3 and it's the first year that sales have been higher for the "next gen" consoles:

NCAA 08

360-361,541
PS3-82,870
TOTAL: 444,411

PS2-185,124
Xbox-28,645
TOTAL: 213,769

GRAND TOTAL:658,180


Now compare that to last year's opening week sales figures:

NCAA 07

360-293,330
PS3-n/a
TOTAL: 293,330

PS2-417,157
Xbox-133,996
TOTAL: 551,153

GRAND TOTAL:844,483

sources:
http://www.vgchartz.com/aweekly.php?date=38921 (http://www.vgchartz.com/aweekly.php?date=38921)
http://www.vgchartz.com/aweekly.php (http://www.vgchartz.com/aweekly.php)

Do you think 2K's football game is the reason that NCAA is behind by 200k in sales compared to last year?

[astrosfan64]

I think it is just safe to say that it is not for some folks.

Besides work, playing video games is my 2nd biggest time waster. I play more than I sleep.

Oh and another reason I'm pissed off, my Wii broke last week. It won't power up at all anymore.

[astrosfan64]

My posts are so brief I think I made 16k in the time it took you to finish GTA3....the second time.

Anywho, to each his own. Rock on real gamer Wii hating dude.

Thanks and a rock on to you "real" gamer hater, message board warrior dude.

[rkmsuf]

Thanks and a rock on to you "real" gamer hater, message board warrior dude.

See, there's common ground to be had. There's hope for the humans.

[Eaglesfan27]

Do you think 2K's football game is the reason that NCAA is behind by 200k in sales compared to last year?


Good question. I don't think 2k's game made that much of an impact since it is only on the 360 and PS3. My guess would be that potential customers heard that there were limited upgrades to the current gen versions and that hurt those sales which caused the lower number of overall sales.

[SackAttack]

Doubt it. Look at the shortfall - PS2 and Xbox. All-Pro 2k8 didn't come out for those systems.

[Synovia]

I think the word 'real' was not the best choice. How about dedicated gamer? As in a person's primary form of entertainment or hobby, outside of their family etc...

My mistake, reading back over these posts I think the word real put people in the wrong place for the point I was trying to make.

My primary form of entertainment is video games. I love the wii.

[rkmsuf]

My primary form of entertainment is video games. I love the wii.

eh, if video games are merely entertainment I'm going to have to question your realness here.:D

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

You need to get out of your basement more. Plenty of us are real gamers, and love the Wii. Frankly, the 360/Ps3 are just the same shitty rehash of the previous systems, with faster processors. Atleast the Wii had the balls to try something different.

Yeah, because the Wii has rehashes of the games from previous systems with the EXACT SAME processor. I'd agree that not upgrading the power of the system is definitely something different.......

Listen, I'm being somewhat sarcastic here, but let's not make the Wii out to be the second coming of gaming. It is doing very well and will make a good profit for the foreseeable future. It's not all that innovative. The motion control is still a work in progress on most of the games.

[sabotai]

You went to gateway so your point is moot.

What high school did you go to?

[Synovia]

Listen, I'm being somewhat sarcastic here, but let's not make the Wii out to be the second coming of gaming. It is doing very well and will make a good profit for the foreseeable future. It's not all that innovative. The motion control is still a work in progress on most of the games.

Have you used it? In pretty much every game I've played (except boxing on wii sports) the motion control is VERY GOOD. If you want a good example, play madden 2007. The motion control is VERY intuitive.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

NCAA 08

360-361,541
PS3-82,870
TOTAL: 444,411


Looks like the PS3 users voted with their wallets regarding the framerate issue. From a games-per-installed-base perspective, the PS3 sold significantly less. The 360 has roughly 3x the installed base, but sold 4x the number of game copies. PS3 owners didn't bite on this one.

[Eaglesfan27]

Looks like the PS3 users voted with their wallets regarding the framerate issue. From a games-per-installed-base perspective, the PS3 sold significantly less. The 360 has roughly 3x the installed base, but sold 4x the number of game copies. PS3 owners didn't bite on this one.

On sports gaming boards (OS and others) people reported selling their PS3's and switching to 360's because of this framerate issue in their 2 favorite games. I don't see how you can spin this to be a positive for the PS3, although I'm sure you'll try.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Have you used it? In pretty much every game I've played (except boxing on wii sports) the motion control is VERY GOOD. If you want a good example, play madden 2007. The motion control is VERY intuitive.

Yes, I own a Wii. There's a lot of games that have received lukewarm reviews because the control system either doesn't work or really felt tacked on rather than anything innovative. There are certainly a few very good games for the system. I've enjoyed Zelda, Wii Sports and Mario Party quite a bit. However, games like Red Steel, Cooking Mama, Big Brain Academy, and Wii Play amongst others have been greatly disappointing. It's really a hit and miss proposition at this point.

Hopefully, more of the developers will get a better handle on it in the near future.

[Synovia]

Yeah, because the Wii has rehashes of the games from previous systems with the EXACT SAME processor. I'd agree that not upgrading the power of the system is definitely something different.......
Please dont make shit up.
They have different processors. The gamecube uses an IBM PowerPC 750CXe clocked at 458mhz, built on the 180nm process.. The Wii uses a 730 mhz PowerPC processor based on the 90nm process.

Saying theyre the same processor is like saying my 1.6ghz P3 is the same processor as my 2.1ghz Core2Duo.

[MikeVic]

Yes, I own a Wii. There's a lot of games that have received lukewarm reviews because the control system either doesn't work or really felt tacked on rather than anything innovative. There are certainly a few very good games for the system. I've enjoyed Zelda, Wii Sports and Mario Party quite a bit. However, games like Red Steel, Cooking Mama, Big Brain Academy, and Wii Play amongst others have been greatly disappointing. It's really a hit and miss proposition at this point.

Hopefully, more of the developers will get a better handle on it in the near future.


I've read about games where the motion control seems tacked on. But I haven't read anything about the motion control not working? Which games are those (other than Wii Sports Boxing)?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

On sports gaming boards (OS and others) people reported selling their PS3's and switching to 360's because of this framerate issue in their 2 favorite games. I don't see how you can spin this to be a positive for the PS3, although I'm sure you'll try.

I'm totally confused now. Where did I try to spin anything? Geez.

All I stated was that it appeared that the PS3 user base voted with their wallet and didn't pick up the game at nearly the rate that the 360 owners did. Up to this point, I still haven't purchased it either. I was leaning towards it, but it appears more and more that some major slider work is needed to make it a good game. That's kind of a turn off to me.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I've read about games where the motion control seems tacked on. But I haven't read anything about the motion control not working? Which games are those (other than Wii Sports Boxing)?

By not work, I mean that the reviewer complained that the motion or the pointer tool often were not accurate or were jumpy in their application. I listed 4 of those games in my original post.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Please dont make shit up.
They have different processors. The gamecube uses an IBM PowerPC 750CXe clocked at 458mhz, built on the 180nm process.. The Wii uses a 730 mhz PowerPC processor based on the 90nm process.

Saying theyre the same processor is like saying my 1.6ghz P3 is the same processor as my 2.1ghz Core2Duo.

There's not much difference. If you're a Gamecube owner and you're paying $250 thinking your going to get a significant upgrade, you're going to be extremely disappointed.

[Synovia]

By not work, I mean that the reviewer complained that the motion or the pointer tool often were not accurate or were jumpy in their application. I listed 4 of those games in my original post.

I'd guarantee that in 99% of the cases, if the pointer was "jumpy" it was an issue of wiimote sensitivity settings, or the sensor bar not being in the right spot. It can get kind of wierd if you're quite a bit offcenter.

[BrianD]

Yes, I own a Wii. There's a lot of games that have received lukewarm reviews because the control system either doesn't work or really felt tacked on rather than anything innovative. There are certainly a few very good games for the system. I've enjoyed Zelda, Wii Sports and Mario Party quite a bit. However, games like Red Steel, Cooking Mama, Big Brain Academy, and Wii Play amongst others have been greatly disappointing. It's really a hit and miss proposition at this point.

Hopefully, more of the developers will get a better handle on it in the near future.

I think you need to stop using the word innovative when describing the effectiveness of the motion control implementation of Wii games. Individual games are not going to try to break the mold with their use of the controller, they are just going to try to make the most appropriate use of the technology. The Wii control system itself is innovative and the games are trying to take advantage of that innovation. Saying that games are not innovative because they don't use the controller well makes me think your point is being lost because you aren't using the right words.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I think you need to stop using the word innovative when describing the effectiveness of the motion control implementation of Wii games. Individual games are not going to try to break the mold with their use of the controller, they are just going to try to make the most appropriate use of the technology. The Wii control system itself is innovative and the games are trying to take advantage of that innovation. Saying that games are not innovative because they don't use the controller well makes me think your point is being lost because you aren't using the right words.

Yeah, but that's kind of like saying that the PS3 is the most powerful system this generation. That's great and all, but if developers aren't using that power fully, is it really worth it? Similarly, if the Wii control system is the most innovative out there, but many developers are having issues fully implementing the controls into an immersive experience, is it really all that innovative?

I personally think it is innovative at some level, but it's being extremely underutilized at this point by the developers, including the 1st party developers.

[Synovia]

There's not much difference. If you're a Gamecube owner and you're paying $250 thinking your going to get a significant upgrade, you're going to be extremely disappointed.

The processor is more than twice as fast. The GPU is more than twice as fast, has more than twice the memory, and that memory went from SDR to GDDR3.

No, its not as fast as the PS3 or Xbox360, but it is MUCH MUCH faster than the PS2 and Gamecube.

[BrianD]

Yeah, but that's kind of like saying that the PS3 is the most powerful system this generation. That's great and all, but if developers aren't using that power fully, is it really worth it? Similarly, if the Wii control system is the most innovative out there, but many developers are having issues fully implementing the controls into an immersive experience, is it really all that innovative?

I personally think it is innovative at some level, but it's being extremely underutilized at this point by the developers, including the 1st party developers.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=innovative&x=0&y=0

You can say that it is underutilized or not well implemented, but that doesn't mean the same thing as not innovative.

[TargetPractice6]

The whole "real gamer" argument is obnoxious.+1

[MJ4H]

On a serious note, can any of you name One Game that is good for the Wii that is unique to that system?


I can name many. I'll start with Wii Sports and Wario Ware. I could move on to Super Paper Mario and Trauma Center. I could keep going.


Is Zelda "which is the best game on the system" better because of the controll scheme? I would say absolutely not.

I would say absolutely yes.


Is Paper Mario better because of the control scheme? Again, I would say no.

I would say the control system is fine on this game. Pretty irrelevant. The system isn't just about the controller.


Is Mario Party better on the Wii then on Gamecube? Again, I would say no and my daughter and her little friends who play it would agree also.

I would say yes.

The best game made for the system, is the free one that came with the Wii.

It isn't really free. I wouldn't say it's really the best either, by a long shot. It is pretty cool, though.

There is absolutely no meat to the Wii it is a gimic and they have a great "franchise". The are great at marketing and even my "parents" think it is neat.

This is just nonsense. The system is not the controller.


Are my parents 68 and 60 years old going to buy a ton of games for it. No.

I am.


My definition of a "real" gamer is playing at least 25 hours plus a week. Owning a computer and at least one console. Buying 1 to 2 games a month.

I more than meet this requirement (which is nonsensical, anyway. a real gamer is a gamer that is not fake. maybe a better term is fanatical gamer? 25 hours a week is a lot).


A casual gamer is what the Wii attracts. Which is nice, but definately not the system for me or most "real" gamers.
The Wii expands the traditional gamer audience by reaching for casual gamers as well as these more fanatical gamers you are referencing. There are tons of great "hardcore" games coming very soon. Enough that I'm worried about being able to afford all the games I have on my must-buy list before Christmas.

If the Wii isn't for you, fine. Don't assume, though, that since you and your friends don't like it, nobody else does.

[gstelmack]

The Wii is NOT a gamecube with a different controller.

You are correct. It's TWO Gamecubes with a different controller ;)

(Yes, I read the rest of the posts and saw where you are basically saying this, but I thought this was still a fun response).

[MJ4H]

Id say thats better than the ps3 or xbox being 4 whatevers with the same controller, but thats just me. Especially when I like the games Nintendo makes better than any other games.

[gstelmack]

Id say thats better than the ps3 or xbox being 4 whatevers with the same controller, but thats just me. Especially when I like the games Nintendo makes better than any other games.

I'm not trying to pick on the Wii. My wife and I are considering one as our second console (after the 360). I was just trying to bring some facts to the conversation.

[Synovia]

gstelmack... trying to bring facts to the conversation? Its not two gamecubes. Its a totally different processor that has a gamecube emulator built in.

[IMetTrentGreen]

The Wii is worth it to me because I refuse to miss out on the next Mario, Zelda, or Smash Bros game. Wii Sports is cool, I have Toe Jam and Earl, Donkey Kong Country, and Link to the Past, etc all loaded on it. That rules.

You are not a serious gamer if you don't have Toe Jam and Earl and Mario Brothers 2 somewhere in your house.

[MJ4H]

im sure you meant smb 3

[astrosfan64]

What high school did you go to?

Kingsway

[sabotai]

Kingsway

Ah, I know someone that teaches there now. And my high school tennis coach is now the principal there. (Looks like Gateway is attempting to invade Kingsway from within. ;) )

[IMetTrentGreen]

Everybody has smb 3. Real gamers have 2.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Rumor circulating that the 360 Core system may drop to $249 on August 8th to make it competitive with the Wii.

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16920

[Eaglesfan27]

Rumor circulating that the 360 Core system may drop to $249 on August 8th to make it competitive with the Wii.

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16920

Other sites are saying that it may be all 3 models that drop 50 dollars. Conflicting reports on the details of which/all models it will apply to.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola -

The timing of a week before Madden releases makes a lot of sense.

[MJ4H]

dude smb 2 isnt even really smb. i mean i have it, but it sucks.

[spleen1015]

dude smb 2 isnt even really smb. i mean i have it, but it sucks.

SMB2 wasn't even supposed to be SMB2. They just decided to put Mario and Luigi in and slap SMB on it.

[astrosfan64]

I'm actually a PC gamer. I only have a console for sports titles and now that I have a five year old girl other console games.

"real" gamers play PC games. :)

[MJ4H]

SMB2 wasn't even supposed to be SMB2. They just decided to put Mario and Luigi in and slap SMB on it.

thats what im talking about

[MJ4H]

I'm actually a PC gamer. I only have a console for sports titles and now that I have a five year old girl other console games.

"real" gamers play PC games. :)

I think pretty much all of us here are PC gamers, based on the subject of the forum??

[terpkristin]

SMB2 wasn't even supposed to be SMB2. They just decided to put Mario and Luigi in and slap SMB on it.

Sorta. In Japan, the game was Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic. In Japan, a different game was SMB2, much like the original SMB. Instead of porting the Japanese SMB2 to the US, they ported the Yume game and replaced the characters with Mario et al

/tk

[MikeVic]

I liked SMB2. It was so different.

[MizzouRah]

I've played twilight princess with both the Wii controls, and a gamecube. It most definitely IS better on the Wii.

You may be right that 60 year old parents aren't going to buy a lot of games, but what console do you think little Jimmy is going to get when xmas rolls around?

You need to get out of your basement more. Plenty of us are real gamers, and love the Wii. Frankly, the 360/Ps3 are just the same shitty rehash of the previous systems, with faster processors. Atleast the Wii had the balls to try something different.

You're right, my 11 year old daughter wants a Wii... I wouldn't even think of getting one for myself. I mean, I could boot up my commodore 64 and get the same graphics.

The 360 a shitty rehash of a previous system? How much pot do you smoke in a day? The 360 is much better than the original Xbox, which btw was a great gaming system. Big deal you get to wave a controller around as you play simplistick games. I've read games like Tiger Woods, which should be a perfect fit for the Wii are terrible.

With all that said, I've got nothing against Nintendo, hell.. the NES was one hell of a console, but cut the bs - it's doesn't even compare to the ps3 or 360.

[Karlifornia]

Wiitarded


That joke been done yet?

[Daimyo]

What's the big deal with graphics? Do you guys actually play games or just look at them? As far as I'm concerned the graphics on Twilight Princess and even Metroid Prime are about as good as I need... after that the returns diminish pretty rapidly IMO. Even at 480p the Wii looks pretty awesome on my hi-def projector.

[spleen1015]

If I had to pick the graphics I had to play with for the rest of my life, I would go with the 16 bit era.

The more real to life the graphics get, the less I like them.

[gstelmack]

gstelmack... trying to bring facts to the conversation? Its not two gamecubes. Its a totally different processor that has a gamecube emulator built in.

< sigh > No humor, no sarcasm in these discussions any more.

FWIW, the "2 Gamecubes stuck together" is a comment I've heard from others more experienced in it than I, and as a "quick" description. As you yourself pointed out, it's about twice as fast all around as an original Gamecube with twice the memory.

Really, I'm not trying to bash the Gamecube. They took old tech and made it salable. They did a good job hitting a market untapped by consoles. To the point that I may even get one. Just don't try to tell me how great or fast the hardware is. This is all about the controller and software.

[TargetPractice6]

With all that said, I've got nothing against Nintendo, hell.. the NES was one hell of a console, but cut the bs - it's doesn't even compare to the ps3 or 360.Sounds like watching 300 would be your ideal video game. The Wii is pure fun, and obviously, does not need the eye candy (though have you played Zelda? Wii games can be pretty if made right) to not just compare with, but dominate, the competition.

[MikeVic]

You're right, my 11 year old daughter wants a Wii... I wouldn't even think of getting one for myself. I mean, I could boot up my commodore 64 and get the same graphics.

The 360 a shitty rehash of a previous system? How much pot do you smoke in a day? The 360 is much better than the original Xbox, which btw was a great gaming system. Big deal you get to wave a controller around as you play simplistick games. I've read games like Tiger Woods, which should be a perfect fit for the Wii are terrible.

With all that said, I've got nothing against Nintendo, hell.. the NES was one hell of a console, but cut the bs - it's doesn't even compare to the ps3 or 360.

Good for you for not wanting a Wii I guess. It is a fun console. And yeah, the NES doesn't compare against the PS3 or 360 at all. ;) I don't think you really meant the Wii vs PS3/360, since it is currently dominating.

I don't have anything against any console this generation. Depending on Rock Band, and what mood I'm in... I might get a 360 in the winter. Don't see a reason for a PS3 just yet though.

[gstelmack]

FWIW, one reason I love my 360 is marketplace. Just bought Catan, plus I've got Time Pilot and a handful of other cool titles. Some good stuff on there for a fairly inexpensive price.

[MizzouRah]

What's the big deal with graphics? Do you guys actually play games or just look at them? As far as I'm concerned the graphics on Twilight Princess and even Metroid Prime are about as good as I need... after that the returns diminish pretty rapidly IMO. Even at 480p the Wii looks pretty awesome on my hi-def projector.

If I'm going to play a console, I want next gen type graphics, if not I'll go upstairs and play the ps2. Seriously, play APF, NHL 07, MLB 2k7, Obilvion, etc.. I just can't go back to non HD games. I'll play a text sim on my pc for a particular sport if there's not one available that's good.

[MizzouRah]

Sounds like watching 300 would be your ideal video game. The Wii is pure fun, and obviously, does not need the eye candy (though have you played Zelda? Wii games can be pretty if made right) to not just compare with, but dominate, the competition.

I always say.. go where the games are. I'm not in to Zelda or Mario... if that's for you, you have the right console.

[MizzouRah]

Good for you for not wanting a Wii I guess. It is a fun console. And yeah, the NES doesn't compare against the PS3 or 360 at all. ;) I don't think you really meant the Wii vs PS3/360, since it is currently dominating.

I don't have anything against any console this generation. Depending on Rock Band, and what mood I'm in... I might get a 360 in the winter. Don't see a reason for a PS3 just yet though.

Dominating in sales? I really could care less. That doesn't mean squat to me. Since the 360 has been out for a bit, just look at the 2nd year of games.. there are some great ones out there.

I was being a bit sarcastic, but the Nintendo era has passed me by. Kids want one something fierce though. ;)

[MJ4H]

I thought it had passed me by, too. I missed 2 generations of great games with that mistake. I'm back with Nintendo for good, now.

[MikeVic]

Yeah, whatever makes you happy is the right console for you. I don't play much, and am more into interactive multiplayer games. Or fun quirky games.

I like the Wario Ware, Wii Sports, Mario Party, etc. type of games.

Dead Rising has been a game that I really want to play on the 360. It seems so fun.

I don't see anything on the PS3 yet that catches my eye, so it's in third to me.

I also have crappy TVs at home with normal stereo sound (and in my bedroom TV, mono sound). So graphics and sound obviously don't factor in for me. The DS and GBA are probably the gaming systems that I've used the most in the past few years, and that's because of convenience (in the can ;)).

[spleen1015]

Todd, you'll have lots of fun with your family with Wii Sports.

[Izulde]

The last non-handheld console that Nintendo made that really held my attention was SNES.

Gamecube was a bust for me personally and I've yet to see anything out for the Wii that really appeals to me.

PS2 and XBox were about equal for me in the last generation and in this current gen, though I have both the 360 and the PS3, the 360's been kicking ass and my PS3's been pretty much a glorified PS2 and DVD player to date.

[MizzouRah]

Todd, you'll have lots of fun with your family with Wii Sports.

Gaming is "my" time. :D

Just kidding, I'm sure I'll get one for my daughter soon enough.

Since I don't have HD satellite TV yet, HD gaming takes its place.

[MizzouRah]

The thing that scares me though is my daughter won a Gamecube and it was never played. We ended up selling it to a neighbor kid.

[sabotai]

You're right, my 11 year old daughter wants a Wii... I wouldn't even think of getting one for myself. I mean, I could boot up my commodore 64 and get the same graphics.

Don't be hatin' on the C64.

[spleen1015]

The thing that scares me though is my daughter won a Gamecube and it was never played. We ended up selling it to a neighbor kid.

If you mainly play console sports games, I can see why you wouldn't play them on the GC. There were a few very good games on the GC.

Metroid Prime was a kick ass game. Other than GTA, I think it was the best game of the current generation.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FWIW, one reason I love my 360 is marketplace. Just bought Catan, plus I've got Time Pilot and a handful of other cool titles. Some good stuff on there for a fairly inexpensive price.

That's actually one of the reasons I love my PS3 as well. Lots of games for the system already available with quite a few more original games on the way, all in HD. Right now, I have......

Calling All Cars
Lemmings
flOw
Cash Guns Chaos
Tekken 5
Blast Factor
Super Stardust HD

[sterlingice]

XBOX 360 = two big advantages XNA/XBOXLIVE and Halo 3 is coming. Though I personally can't stand shooters on consoles the pleebs love it.

As a gaming snob, I do love this comment :D

SI

[MizzouRah]

Don't be hatin' on the C64.

No hatin on the C64. Still probably my favorite computer. :) Heck, I ran a color 64 bbs for a few years.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

No hatin on the C64. Still probably my favorite computer. :) Heck, I ran a color 64 bbs for a few years.

****Geek detector explosion****

:D

[MizzouRah]

****Geek detector explosion****

:D

No way!

Started out on the Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer, then came the C64. :D

Where do you start? 4th and Inches, Hardball, F15 Strike Eagle, Lance Hafner text sims, The Bard's Tale, Wasteland... the list goes on!!!

[twothree]

GameFAQs has been doing a poll each day this week asking if you own a specific console system. Over 90,000 votes each day on a 5 option poll with 2 of the choices being yes votes has yielded the approximated percentages for ownership of a specific console.

PS3 - 14.16%
Wii - 50.66%
XBOX360 -40.84%

And so far today, so the number isn't finalized, the DS has 66.52%.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

GameFAQs has been doing a poll each day this week asking if you own a specific console system. Over 90,000 votes each day on a 5 option poll with 2 of the choices being yes votes has yielded the approximated percentages for ownership of a specific console.

PS3 - 14.16%
Wii - 50.66%
XBOX360 -40.84%

And so far today, so the number isn't finalized, the DS has 66.52%.

So they created a poll to show that the people who surf that site have purchased the systems at nearly the exact same rate as the general public from a ratio perspective?

It's actually a shame that site has gone downhill so quickly. It used to be a great site for things like walkthroughs, tips, and cheat codes. I saw that the creator of that site is now leaving the site. I'm guessing he got tired of the relatively young crowd that frequents that site now.

[MikeVic]

So they created a poll to show that the people who surf that site have purchased the systems at nearly the exact same rate as the general public from a ratio perspective?

It's actually a shame that site has gone downhill so quickly. It used to be a great site for things like walkthroughs, tips, and cheat codes. I saw that the creator of that site is now leaving the site. I'm guessing he got tired of the relatively young crowd that frequents that site now.

Yeah you can't go to the forums... you can tell everyone posting is really young. But it's still a good site for FAQs and stuff. Why has that changed in your eyes? I still think it has the info. there.

[twothree]

So they created a poll to show that the people who surf that site have purchased the systems at nearly the exact same rate as the general public from a ratio perspective?

It's actually a shame that site has gone downhill so quickly. It used to be a great site for things like walkthroughs, tips, and cheat codes. I saw that the creator of that site is now leaving the site. I'm guessing he got tired of the relatively young crowd that frequents that site now.

Yeah, their polls seemed designed to help advertisers. Once GameFAQs got bought by GameSpot/CNET, I think everyone knew the gamespot crowd would take over. However, there are still some boards for niche games that don't have the kiddy crowd. And the old FAQs are all still there, so it is still a useful site to me.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yeah you can't go to the forums... you can tell everyone posting is really young. But it's still a good site for FAQs and stuff. Why has that changed in your eyes? I still think it has the info. there.

I think the best use of the site is for some of the games that are older. There are some great walkthroughs for games that are now in the bargain bin or on Gametap. The walkthroughs for the games released in the past 3-4 years or so aren't nearly as good as the ones done before that time.

I picked up a copy of the Space Quest Collection for $3 the other day. Went right to GameFAQs and got all the walkthroughs to help out. Lots of fun.

[astrosfan64]

No way!

Started out on the Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer, then came the C64. :D

Where do you start? 4th and Inches, Hardball, F15 Strike Eagle, Lance Hafner text sims, The Bard's Tale, Wasteland... the list goes on!!!

I'm right there with you.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting numbers here from the financial reports. These are the worldwide units sold numbers from the recently released quarterly reports by Sony.

Q3 06 1.66 Million
Q4 06 1.91 Million
Q1 07 .71 Million

Total sales: 4.28 million for the LTD sales ending June 30th, 2007.

A few points:

---This is well above the estimate provided on what most people know are the unreliable numbers posted by vgchartz.com. They were listing the PS3 as selling 3.9M units as of now. If you include the rough sales estimates for July (reported increase in sales of 135%), it's pretty likely that the PS3 has sold around 4.4M-4.5M units at this point.

---For comparison's sake, the 360 had sold around 5M units by the end of August 2006. The PS3 is likely going to come in around 4.8M units for the same time period. So, pretty comparable sales for the same time periods. PS3 will come in with slightly less, but not a significant difference overall. Interesting that the sales were similar despite the much higher price point on the PS3. We'll have to see how the price drop affects the overall trend.

[wade moore]

But the difference is wasn't the 360 still having supply issues in August 2006?

[Bee]

Why are the Q1 07 numbers so bad compared to the 06 numbers?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

But the difference is wasn't the 360 still having supply issues in August 2006?

Sony said they were having supply problems until a couple of months ago. ;)

Some would argue that MS is having supply problems right now. Everyone that wants a 360 wants to buy an Elite. The problem is that there are none in stock. Meanwhile, premium and core 360's aren't selling well at all.

We could do 'yea, but' all day long on this. I just posted it because it's the first solid numbers that we've seen in awhile. Generally speaking, both systems have sold a similar amount of consoles over the same period in time of their lifecycles. The question now becomes whether Sony can exceed the 5M or so units that the 360 sold in one year after those 1st 5M were sold. Selling 5M over the next year won't cut into the 360's lead.

[gstelmack]

I still think the 360 is down on sales over the last 2-3 weeks because the rumor of a pricecut has them holding off waiting for it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Why are the Q1 07 numbers so bad compared to the 06 numbers?

That's always a dead period for both games and consoles. Gaming companies have their fiscal year start at the end of March for that reason. The slow sales are at the start of the year, followed by a build up of game and console sales starting now through the holidays and finishing with sales from gift cards and gift money early at the start of the calendar year. By starting the fiscal year at the end of March, the bad times come early, while the upswing in financial strength is late in the year. Also, that allows them to count all of the console sales from the holiday season that bleed into January as sales for that given fiscal year.

[Eaglesfan27]

Interesting numbers here from the financial reports. These are the worldwide units sold numbers from the recently released quarterly reports by Sony.

Q3 06 1.66 Million
Q4 06 1.91 Million
Q1 07 .71 Million

Total sales: 4.28 million for the LTD sales ending June 30th, 2007.

A few points:

---This is well above the estimate provided on what most people know are the unreliable numbers posted by vgchartz.com.

Of course, Sony has no reason to be overestimating their sales..

[Bee]

That's always a dead period for both games and consoles. Gaming companies have their fiscal year start at the end of March for that reason. The slow sales are at the start of the year, followed by a build up of game and console sales starting now through the holidays and finishing with sales from gift cards and gift money early at the start of the calendar year. By starting the fiscal year at the end of March, the bad times come early, while the upswing in financial strength is late in the year. Also, that allows them to count all of the console sales from the holiday season that bleed into January as sales for that given fiscal year.

I knew it would be slower at that time, but I never imagined it would be that drastic of a difference.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Of course, Sony has no reason to be overestimating their sales..

There's been a jump in sales on the PS3. There's no question about that. We can bicker a few percent here or there, but it's not unreasonable at all to suggest a significant jump in the range of 100% (double) right now. Every report that I've seen from retailers seems to indicate that Sony's sales jump numbers are pretty accurate.

[Eaglesfan27]

There's been a jump in sales on the PS3. There's no question about that. We can bicker a few percent here or there, but it's not unreasonable at all to suggest a significant jump in the range of 100% (double) right now. Every report that I've seen from retailers seems to indicate that Sony's sales jump numbers are pretty accurate.

I'm not arguing that. However, there is nothing that magically makes Sony's numbers any more accurate than VG's, yet you were implying there was.