Send an ambulance to NBA Hq.

[miami_fan]

The NBA can't stand it when the other sports get all the negative publicity!:mad:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07202007/news/columnists/nba_in_a_fix_columnists_murray_weiss.htm

July 20, 2007 -- THE FBI is investigating an NBA referee who allegedly was betting on basketball games - including ones he was officiating during the past two seasons - as part of an organized-crime probe in the Big Apple, The Post has learned.
The investigation, which began more than a year ago, is zeroing in on blockbuster allegations that the referee was making calls that affected the point spread to guarantee that he - and the hoods who had their hooks in him - cashed in on large bets.

Federal agents are set to arrest the referee and a cadre of mobsters and their associates who lined their pockets, sources said.

"These are dangerous people [the referee] was involved with," a source said.

One source close to the probe counted the number of games on which the ref and his wiseguy buddies scored windfalls in the "double digits."

NBA Commissioner David Stern is aware of the investigation and has a report about the referee on his desk, another source said.

The official, whose name was withheld, allegedly wagered on games during the 2005-06 and 2006-07 NBA seasons.

James Margolin, an FBI spokesman, declined comment on the latest black eye for professional sports.

The sources indicated the referee apparently had a gambling problem, slipped into debt and fell prey to mob thugs.

"That's how he got himself into this predicament" by wagering with mob-connected bookies, one source said.

Professional basketball has remained largely unscathed by allegations of game-fixing, although college basketball has been rocked by several scandals involving point-shaving by players, but not officials.

One of the most recent was a Boston College point-shaving scam arranged in the 1980s by mobster Henry Hill, who bribed several players. Hill later became a government informant, and his life was depicted in the movie "GoodFellas."

Having a referee in their pockets provides a two-fold bonanza to game fixers.

Gamblers would be able to directly cash in by betting on games where they knew the point spread was compromised.

But having a ref in their pocket could prove even more lucrative to crooks in a bookmaking syndicate.

Bookmakers hope to encourage an equal amount of betting on each team and make their money on the "vigorish," which is typically 10 percent of a losing bet.

But armed with the inside information, the bookmaking syndicate could set an artificial point spread that would encourage large "layoff" bets from other bookies carrying too much action on one team, that were likely now to lose.

An FBI organized-crime squad in the bureau's flagship New York office is handling the case, but the referee traveled the country officiating various games on which he allegedly bet.

It was not determined which games were allegedly affected by the referee's actions, or how much money may have been won by him and his cohorts.

The FBI got wind of the scheme while conducting a separate mob investigation.

The most prominent American sport- gambling scandal in recent history involved Cincinnati Reds manager Pete Rose, who was banned from baseball in 1989 for betting on his own team.

Based largely on testimony of two Rose associates, Ron Peters and Paul Janszen, Major League Baseball determined that from 1985 through 1987, Rose bet on baseball, including 52 Reds games in 1987, at a minimum of $10,000 a game.

All of Rose's bets on Cincinnati were to win.

[KWhit]

OUCH!!!

[Ksyrup]

So who's going to be arrested for the other 90% of ridiculous calls and non-calls?

[st.cronin]

Anybody else wonder if this is the tip of the iceberg?

[TroyF]

So who's going to be arrested for the other 90% of ridiculous calls and non-calls?

That's what I was going to say. How the hell could they tell his calls were strange, when at least 15% of all calls in the league are ridiculous.

[TroyF]

Anybody else wonder if this is the tip of the iceberg?


If they got one, there is certainly a possibility they have more.

[rkmsuf]

Anybody else wonder if this is the tip of the iceberg?

no. I think it's much ado about very little actually.

[miami_fan]

no. I think it's much ado about very little actually.

Really? An league on court official is associated with using his authority on the floor to influence the outcome of the game for the gain of himself and the underworld. That seems like a big deal to me.

[rkmsuf]

Really? An league on court official is associated with using his authority on the floor to influence the outcome of the game for the gain of himself and the underworld. That seems like a big deal to me.

guy has very little impact on the game. it's almost impossible to have much influence overall unless employing the ridiculous which would be readily apparent.

No way this guy affect the winner/loser of a game. Maybe they screwed with the spread winner in a game with a double digit spread. Even trying to do that would be darn near impossible for one guy.

Sure this joker is not good but it's not like the NBA is being run by the mob. Yes you get rid of the clown but it's not a huge problem I don't think.

[Huckleberry]

guy has very little impact on the game. it's almost impossible to have much influence overall unless employing the ridiculous which would be readily apparent.

:confused:

Ridiculous calls wouldn't be readily apparent. Every NBA game I watch has multiple ridiculous calls.

[rkmsuf]

:confused:

Ridiculous calls wouldn't be readily apparent. Every NBA game I watch has multiple ridiculous calls.

so which ones are the nefarious ones?

and does it really matter then if you can't tell?

maybe the good calls are the crooked ones.

[TroyF]

no. I think it's much ado about very little actually.

rk,

Not sure I understand this at all.

You have a league which has an amazingly bad perception of how the refs handle games. Some unbelievably laughable games and calls dot the league's history. Any NBA fan remember the game the TWolves played in LA where they were calling fouls on TWolve players 3 feet from the Laker players. (the TWolves went on to win the game in OT, but the game made national headlines for a couple of weeks after)

Now you have a ref accused of point shaving?

This isn't much ado about nothing, this is disasterous for the credibilty of the league. I doubt it was, but let's say the ref in question made the foul call on Wade in the winding seconds of game 5 of the Finals?

This is as bad as it gets for the NBA. They'll be in damage control within hours because they DO understand that it isn't much ado about nothing. . . it's much ado about a lot.

[Butter]

That's what I was going to say. How the hell could they tell his calls were strange, when at least 15% of all calls in the league are ridiculous.

It will be interesting to see if/when this comes out, which ref and which games it was.

Also, this is the NY Post reporting this, so I wouldn't be totally surprised to never see anything come of this.

[molson]

Also, this is the NY Post reporting this, so I wouldn't be totally surprised to never see anything come of this.

That's a red flag, but it looks like the law enforcement sources have now talked to a number of media outlets, and everyone's reporting the story.

[gstelmack]

maybe the good calls are the crooked ones.

Stern's ticked that someone ELSE was pulling the refs' strings and undermining his attempts to influence the league :D

[molson]

Stern's ticked that someone ELSE was pulling the refs' strings and undermining his attempts to influence the league :D

Come to think of it, a Cleveland/San Antonio NBA Finals does seem suspiciously non-rigged.

[stevew]

This certainly explains quite a few of the calls DWade was getting in the 06 finals. Seriously, though, this has BAD potential for the league

[stevew]

Hopefully they use this as a reason to shitcan Violet Palmer as well.

[bryce]

Wonder if sportsbooks will place odds on which ref it was...

My money's on Salvatorre...

edit to add that I'll be checking Cuban's blog a little more regularly to see if he posts anything about it. Obviously, he can't/won't name names, I'd presume, but it could be some interesting reading nonetheless....

[KWhit]

guy has very little impact on the game. it's almost impossible to have much influence overall unless employing the ridiculous which would be readily apparent.

No way this guy affect the winner/loser of a game. Maybe they screwed with the spread winner in a game with a double digit spread. Even trying to do that would be darn near impossible for one guy.

You're kidding, right? There is always contact down low. A ref could call a legit foul on almost every play. All he would need to do would be to call a few more on one team than the other to have a huge impact on the game and the eventual winner.

[Deattribution]

edit to add that I'll be checking Cuban's blog a little more regularly to see if he posts anything about it. Obviously, he can't/won't name names, I'd presume, but it could be some interesting reading nonetheless....

What's the over/under on Cuban being fined a trillion dollars during the season for saying a few refs are point shaving when his team loses a big game?

[LloydLungs]

Maybe Zach Zarba? Young guy, relatively new ref, from Brooklyn? Although I'm rooting for it to be Joey Crawford.

[rkmsuf]

You're kidding, right? There is always contact down low. A ref could call a legit foul on almost every play. All he would need to do would be to call a few more on one team than the other to have a huge impact on the game and the eventual winner.

when does this happen then? guy must not be betting the celtics.

[KWhit]

when does this happen then? guy must not be betting the celtics.

What do you mean "when does this happen?" We don't know, but it could be happening every single game because it can be so easy for just a handful of calls to affect the game (or at the very least the margin of victory). But either way, I think it's a big-ass deal.

[stevew]

Tim Donaghy is the ref in question, according to espn.

[miami_fan]

NBA referee Tim Donaghy is under investigation by the FBI for allegations that he bet on games that he officiated over the past two seasons and that he made calls affecting the point spread in games, multiple sources told ESPN.

Donaghy, a 13-year veteran of the league, is aware of the investigation and resigned from the NBA recently.

The NBA issued a brief statement Friday, saying: "We have been asked by the FBI, with whom we are working closely, not to comment on this matter at this time."

According to a law enforcement official, authorities are examining whether Donaghy -- whose identity was not revealed until Friday afternoon -- made calls to affect the point spread in games on which he or associates had wagered.



Donaghy

The law enforcement official, who spoke to The Associated Press on Friday on condition of anonymity, said the referee was aware of the investigation and had made arrangements to surrender as early as next week to face charges. The official, who did not identify the referee, is familiar with the investigation but was not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing investigation.

The investigation first was reported Friday by the New York Post.

The law enforcement official said the bets involved thousands of dollars and were made on games during the 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 seasons.

The FBI probe, which began recently, also involves allegations that the referee had connections to organized crime associates. Other arrests are expected, the official said.

The referee had a gambling problem, according to the official, and was approached by low-level mob associates through an acquaintance.

Nevada gambling regulators were not involved in an investigation and had no information about the allegations, said Jerry Markling, enforcement chief for the state Gaming Commission and Gaming Control Board.

Jay Kornegay, executive director of the sports book at the Las Vegas Hilton, said he had never seen any unusual activity in NBA betting, and was surprised not to have heard about an investigation until Friday.

"Whispers would have happened on the street, and we would have heard something," Kornegay said. "Any type of suspicious or unusual movements, you usually hear in the industry. We're so regulated and policed, any kind of suspicion would be discussed.

"We haven't seen anything like that in the NBA that I can remember," he said, "and we haven't been contacted by anybody."

Kornegay said legal sports betting in Nevada represents a fraction of sports betting worldwide, with 98.5 percent of all action taken outside the state. Clayton cited a 2005 estimate by the National Gambling Impact Study Commission that found $380 billion is wagered on illegal sports betting, compared with $2.25 billion in legal sports betting in Nevada.

Gambling long has been a problem in sports, and leagues have made a point of educating players of the potential pitfalls. The NBA, for example, discusses gambling at rookie orientation, even bringing in former mobster Michael Franceze to speak.

NBA commissioner David Stern had long objected to putting a team in Las Vegas because it permits betting on basketball, though earlier this year allowed Mayor Oscar Goodman to submit a proposal to owners on how the city would handle wagering on a team if it moved there.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2943095

[molson]

That's the ref that had the confrontation with Rasheed Wallace in the parking lot a few years back.

This is a huge disaster for the NBA, even if this is the only guy that's caught.

[bulletsponge]

The Chicago Black Sox agree that this isnt that important

[sterlingice]

Really? An league on court official is associated with using his authority on the floor to influence the outcome of the game for the gain of himself and the underworld. That seems like a big deal to me.

I think it's a big story and I think the NBA, more than any other league, is the one that looks fixed by the refs. However, I think using the phrase "tip of the iceberg" implies that there will be more found out. I think the story is out there- there's no more iceberg. There's point fixing. That's huge, but unless it turns out there are more or David Stern is behind it or something, that's the "end" of the story.

The biggest problem is that in the NBA, the refs have the most control over any of the major sports. An umpire can squeeze a strike zone to screw a pitcher and that can affect things quite a bit but the other team has to be hitting that day as well. In football, a pass interference or holding at an inopportune time can keep a drive alive or end one and have a huge impact on the game. But, ultimately, in basketball- you get free points as well as the ability to completely dictate the tempo of the game and what players are on the floor with bad officiating.

SI

[dime]

I would think this guy has been doing duke's acc games for about 10 years now...

he did game 3 of the spurs/suns series last year in san antonio, the game where stoudamire only played 20 minutes due to foul trouble and a late suns rally was thwarted by 13 spurs free throws in the 4th quarter and a technical foul given to mike d'antoni.

[larrymcg421]

Tim Donaghy is the ref in question, according to espn.

What did they expect when they hired the brother of this guy?

http://l.yimg.com/img.tv.yahoo.com/tv/us/img/site/50/37/0000035037_20061021051628.jpg?y=626&sig=Hie3ceJSAG8b_8sxsxcxEg--

[Arles]

FYI, here's an interesting video on Danaghy's playoff game involving Phoenix and SA (Spurs won 108-101). It was the game where 3 Phoenix starters had 5 fouls - including Amare would played just 21 minutes (while Bowen got just 2 all game while riding Nash):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvkKdXLwt0U

[st.cronin]

It seemed totally plausible to me that that series had been fixed, but the rebuttal that stopped me was "why would the nba want san antonio in the finals?"

And now we have the answer - it was the mob that wanted san antonio in the finals.

[Logan]

I'm amazed that this is such a low-traffic thread on here.

[Butter]

I think once the specifics of which games were supposed to be fixed are known, this story will get a lot more interesting. As for now, we're dealing in vague generalities. A ref fixed games for the mob, supposedly. Damning stuff, surely, but hardly ripe for argument.

[QuikSand]

I'm amazed that this is such a low-traffic thread on here.

Following in FOFC tradition, an unspecific thread title keeps it from being checked by people who might be interested in the topic. *shurg*

[Ksyrup]

Or, the extent to which some of the rumored info about additional refs being involved bears fruit. This is a big enough story as it is, but if this involved a few more guys (and perhaps players, as it has been suggested)...wow.

I think the fact that a lot of us don't even watch the NBA anymore is probably part of this. It just doesn't matter to me...I think the idea of ref(s) fixing games is a bigger issue to me than that it is happening in the NBA. If this was the NFL, I'd be all over it.

[spleen1015]

There's not more talk in this thread because not many people on the board give a shit about the NBA, I suspect.

[spleen1015]

If this was the NFL, I'd be all over it.

I think this board would blow up if this were the case.

[Sublime 2]

In case anyone missed it, Simmons has a good article up on it:
The Tipping Point (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070722)

[Brillig]

Here's what puzzles me - if he was fixing games for the mob...and he's not in protective custody...why is he still alive? Has the mob suddenly become shy about silencing witnesses?

[flere-imsaho]

Following in FOFC tradition, an unspecific thread title keeps it from being checked by people who might be interested in the topic. *shurg*

Actually, from the Simmons' article: "That should have been a movie. Now, it allegedly looks to have happened in real life. If true, it's the rarest of sports scandals, a shocker that shocked absolutely nobody but might end up becoming more significant than anyone imagines."

So - no one's shocked, but no one really knows what the significance is going to be.

In case anyone missed it, Simmons has a good article up on it:
The Tipping Point (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070722)

He spends a lot of time on Game 3 of the Suns-Spurs, which Donaghy reffed. Now, I don't follow the NBA a lot, but I did happen to watch this game, and what struck me, especially in the first half, is how listless the Spurs were. I remember thinking that unless they woke up, they were going to lose that game and that series.

When the game finished, I remember thinking "well, I guess that's why the Spurs are a great team - they find a way to win when they're not playing well." As Simmons points out, we now have an alternate explanation.

[molson]

Here's what puzzles me - if he was fixing games for the mob...and he's not in protective custody...why is he still alive? Has the mob suddenly become shy about silencing witnesses?

It seems that the the Florida police are hanging out at his house:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2945840

[Ksyrup]

Actually, from the Simmons' article: "That should have been a movie. Now, it allegedly looks to have happened in real life. If true, it's the rarest of sports scandals, a shocker that shocked absolutely nobody but might end up becoming more significant than anyone imagines."

So - no one's shocked, but no one really knows what the significance is going to be.


I don't think "shock" is what QS is getting at. He's simply saying that the thread title gives absolutely no information that would clue someone in as to what the thread was about; hence, fewer people have bothered to check it.

[Ksyrup]

It seems that the the Florida police are hanging out at his house:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2945840

According to Vitale on M&M this morning, Donaghy lives down the street from Vitale. I just assumed that even mobsters wouldn't want to be anywhere near Vitale, so he was essentially untouchable as long as he stayed home.

[molson]

I don't think "shock" is what QS is getting at. He's simply saying that the thread title gives absolutely no information that would clue someone in as to what the thread was about; hence, fewer people have bothered to check it.

My first thought, looking at the thread title, was that it was the next compelling chapter of the "dress code" saga that everyone was obsessed with last year for some reason.

[Ksyrup]

I'm sure we'll get a more detailed analysis as time goes on, but this is from one of the articles:



Those studying Donaghy's games might have noticed some trends.

When the home team was favored by 0-4½ points, it went 5-12 in games officiated by Donaghy this season, according to Covers.com, a Web site that tracks referee trends. Home underdogs were 1-7 when the spread was 5-9.5 points.

Donaghy was part of a crew working the Heat-Knicks game in New York in February when the Knicks shot 39 free throws to the Heat's eight, technical fouls were called on Heat coach Pat Riley and assistant Ron Rothstein, and the Knicks won by six. New York was favored by 4½.

[rkmsuf]

I don't think "shock" is what QS is getting at. He's simply saying that the thread title gives absolutely no information that would clue someone in as to what the thread was about; hence, fewer people have bothered to check it.



Waaaaaaaaa.....I have to check a thread where I'm not sure what it's about because I'm so busy..........Waaaaaaaaaaa

[Ksyrup]

Waaaaaaaaa.....I have to check a thread where I'm not sure what it's about because I'm so busy..........Waaaaaaaaaaa

Has nothing to do with having to check threads, but whether an ambiguous thread title draws everyone who might be interested in the subject. Even I don't click on EVERY thread around here!

[rkmsuf]

Has nothing to do with having to check threads, but whether an ambiguous thread title draws everyone who might be interested in the subject. Even I don't click on EVERY thread around here!


oh, sure you do.

[SunDevil]

http://deadspin.com/sports/tim-donaghy/this-donaghy-situation-is-not-likely-to-improve-281279.php

[stevew]

In a way, I sort of hope the mafia gets to this guy. But then again, killing is wrong.

[Bubba Wheels]

In related news, the NBA is eyeing merger talks with the WWF that would make Vince McMahon the new commissioner of both.

[gstelmack]

Simmons makes the excellent point that while everyone is focused on spreads, he could have easily affected the over/under without changing the outcome of the game, or even the spread if he was careful.

[Logan]

I just hope the proof they have on this guy is sufficient (i.e. him specifically saying on the wire that he will make sure Team X covers). If they're going to rely on game footage to prove the point that he made calls for his own benefit, all it will take is some more video of unaccused refs making terrible calls to throw that away, or video of his bad calls in games that weren't allegedly tainted. You're never going to prove that his blown calls were different than all of the other subjective calls made throughout the league.

BTW, in my overall interest in sports, about 1% is devoted to the NBA, but I'm dying for more info on this story. I'll be glued to it like The Wire.

[Butter]

BTW, in my overall interest in sports, about 1% is devoted to the NBA, but I'm dying for more info on this story. I'll be glued to it like The Wire.

Same.

[stevew]

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[molson]

Watching that first clip, Ginobli's reaction is almost as annoying as the foul call.

I love basketball, but how many drives to the hoop end with either a foul, or the offensive player whining to the referee - 85%?

NBA refing has been horrible, obviously, but with the way the game is played, I don't understand how any referee could be good. It seems completely random. Everytime someone drives to the hoop, there's some contact (Even on that Ginobli play - he was lightly pushed by two defenders - isn't that a foul by the book?) It's a judgement call EVERY single time. Of course there's no consistency.

I don't know what can be done to make things clearer, where the horrible (or crooked) referees are more easily exposed.

[Ksyrup]

Here's the thing, though - a few of those calls/non-calls were made by one of the other 2 refs. So were they all in on it? That last one they showed, of Nash being hit on a steal by Bowen, there was a ref right in front of that play who made no call. What was his excuse? In on it? Taking his cue from Donaghy to call it a certain way (without knowing what Donaghy was up to)? That was some incredibly poor officiating, even if you excise 3 or 4 calls/non-calls specifically attributed to Donaghy.

[larrymcg421]

There were some horrible calls in that game, but they weren't all on Donaghy.

I'm not sure which is more problematic for the league: A referee that fixed games for the mob or the fact that other non-fixing referees appear to be making even worse calls.

[Ksyrup]

There were some horrible calls in that game, but they weren't all on Donaghy.

I'm not sure which is more problematic for the league: A referee that fixed games for the mob or the fact that other non-fixing referees appear to be making even worse calls.

I think the biggest concern of all could be that a defense to these accusations is that the league instructs (or encourages, to soften it up a bit) refs to call certain games a certain way, depending on the circumstances, and that's why it looks like he's going out of his way to make certain calls. Not to necessarily change the outcome, but to give a certain team an advantage. That's the tin foil hat conspiracy we've all thought about for a long time, anyway. I've never understood how, within the same series, a set of refs can call everything under the sun in a couple of games followed by 2 or 3 games where nothing gets called unless it's obvious or draws blood. If this league had any interest in deflecting this sort of criticism, it should have been demanding consistency from its refs.

[SunDevil]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/2007/07/22/2007-07-22_rogue_ref_may_blow_whistle-3.html

Rogue ref may blow whistle

Hoops zebra could turn into rat in betting scandal, officials say

BY MIKE JACCARINO in West Goshen Township, Pa.
and JOHN MARZULLI, JONATHAN LEMIRE and RICH SCHAPIRO in New York
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Posted Sunday, July 22nd 2007, 4:00 AM
Ref

Tim Donaghy

Federal authorities believe the referee at the center of the betting and game-fixing probe rocking the NBA will cooperate with investigators - and possibly name other officials or players involved in the scandal, law enforcement sources told The News.

Saddled with large gambling debts, Tim Donaghy allegedly used mobbed-up bookies to place thousands of dollars in bets on games over the past two seasons, including contests he officiated, the sources said.

Two of the bookies are expected to be arrested this week after Donaghy, who has resigned from the NBA, surrenders to authorities in New York as early as Tuesday, the sources said.

Investigators do not yet know if the NBA gambling scandal extends beyond Donaghy, who has hired former federal prosecutor John Lauro as his defense attorney. The Tampa-based Lauro specializes in representing whistleblowers, the sources said.

"Who knows what he'll say if he comes in," a law enforcement source said.

New details of the growing scandal emerged yesterday and painted a troubling picture of the 40-year-old Donaghy. The so-called family man, who hid his frightening temper and shady associates from public view, has been arrested twice for erratic and threatening behavior.

In June 2002, he was charged with disorderly conduct and harassment for nearly running a U.S. postal carrier off the road after the mailman accidentally knocked over a bin of recyclables in front of the ref's Pennsylvania home.

"He was pretty nasty," mail carrier Charles Brogan, 48, said as he recalled trying to make a delivery at Donaghy's West Goshen house. "I just drove down the road. I thought, 'No way I'm going back there.'"

As Brogan attempted to drive his route, a screaming Donaghy chased him by hopping into his car and speeding after the postal truck, Brogan said.

"He kept cutting me off," said Brogan, adding that Donaghy narrowly avoided ramming his truck several times. "He wouldn't let me deliver the mail."

"At one point he got out of his car and started threatening me face to face," Brogan said. "He was yelling, 'I'll have your job. I know so and so.'"

Brogan said Donaghy tried to intimidate him by saying he played golf with famous players like Charles Barkley.

Donaghy later came to the post office to apologize at least three times, but Brogan said he refused to talk to him. The criminal case was dropped because Brogan failed to show up for a court hearing.

David Boyle, a local cop, said Donaghy would often pepper his neighbors' houses with golf balls that he hit from his backyard.

"He didn't get arrested because nobody saw him do it," Boyle said. "But there were divots all over the backyard."

Donaghy's longtime caddy at the Radley Run Country Club - which suspended the ref in 2004 for bad behavior - said the NBA zebra ruffled feathers there as well.

"He was polite to me and I liked him, but a lot of people felt he was rude," said Brent Devantier, 23, who noted that Donaghy was a "top-flight tipper."

Donaghy, a 13-year veteran of the NBA, also was charged with harassing and stalking Dennis Van Zandt in Haverton Township, Pa., in June 1995, according to court papers. Van Zandt refused to discuss the incident yesterday for fear of retribution.

"You read the story," he said. "I don't want to talk about it for obvious reasons."

Donaghy, who now lives in Bradenton, Fla., also was sued in 2005 by a neighbor in West Chester, Pa., where he moved from West Goshen, for instigating "a pattern of public harassment," according to court papers.

Sources told The News that federal authorities first heard Donaghy's name on a wiretap during investigations into the Gambino crime family over the past year.

A Philadelphia wiseguy wanna-be is believed to have threatened to use his contacts in the Gambino family to hurt Donaghy if the ref - already known as a heavy gambler - did not share inside information and help fix games, sources said.

That gangster also claimed he would expose Donaghy's serious debts if he did not cooperate with the bookies, who allegedly won thousands of dollars with the referees' help, sources said.

NBA referees reportedly earn between $100,000 to $300,000 per year.

[Logan]

Here's the thing, though - a few of those calls/non-calls were made by one of the other 2 refs. So were they all in on it? That last one they showed, of Nash being hit on a steal by Bowen, there was a ref right in front of that play who made no call. What was his excuse? In on it? Taking his cue from Donaghy to call it a certain way (without knowing what Donaghy was up to)? That was some incredibly poor officiating, even if you excise 3 or 4 calls/non-calls specifically attributed to Donaghy.

Larry said it best...it is horrible that a guy was being paid off to make calls and it's horrible that the officiating in general is so bad that you don't know who else may be in on it.

I've never understood how, within the same series, a set of refs can call everything under the sun in a couple of games followed by 2 or 3 games where nothing gets called unless it's obvious or draws blood. If this league had any interest in deflecting this sort of criticism, it should have been demanding consistency from its refs.

Because as Simmons pointed out (and had done so plenty of times before the conspiracy came down), one series will get all different refs officiating it. He believes that the worst refs, ones that could be easily influenced by the home crowd of a team who needs to win a pivotal Game 4 to make the series worthwhile, are assigned to that game for just that reason. And then the best refs will be assigned to the games that need to be called correctly.

[Butter]

NBA referees reportedly earn between $100,000 to $300,000 per year.

This is underpaid?

[rkmsuf]

NBA referees reportedly earn between $100,000 to $300,000 per year.

This is underpaid?

I guess relatively if you are to subscribe to how much influence they can have on the game and in terms of the money floating around the nba.

[molson]

Donaghy sounds like a total nutjob. And it will be interesting if anything comes of that report that the NBA hired a private investigater to monitor Donaghy's gambling habits.

Are referees that hard to find?

[Ajaxab]

Here's the thing, though - a few of those calls/non-calls were made by one of the other 2 refs. So were they all in on it? That last one they showed, of Nash being hit on a steal by Bowen, there was a ref right in front of that play who made no call. What was his excuse? In on it? Taking his cue from Donaghy to call it a certain way (without knowing what Donaghy was up to)? That was some incredibly poor officiating, even if you excise 3 or 4 calls/non-calls specifically attributed to Donaghy.

This is where the sport of basketball is different than something like soccer where one official has an immense amount of power. How much power does one official have in a given basketball game without being incredibly obvious about what he's doing? As the Suns-Spurs clip demonstrated, Eddie F. Rush was looking directly at that Nash drive and nothing was called. The three ref system makes it very tough to know how much influence one official might have.

It would seem that the only way to possibly figure out what is going on would be to look at every single call in every single context and try to piece together arguments based on what would be found. But that is an immensely daunting task.

[albionmoonlight]

Bill Simmons is in the catbird seat right now. He made piss-poor officiating one of his running themes. Now, he can come off as the guy who suspected something was up from the beginning--just not something this bad. Also, since he likes the NBA and has always stated that he likes it, he won't come off as one of those guys who is just piling on the "NBA sux" bandwagon.

Not bad for him at all. And, based on that first column, I think that he can add much more to the discussion than the vast majority of the talking heads.

[Logan]

There's a lot of people who are gonna come out of this with big smiles on their faces -- Mark Cuban, Rasheed Wallace, and Shaq, for instance.

[Ksyrup]

Bill Simmons is in the catbird seat right now. He made piss-poor officiating one of his running themes. Now, he can come off as the guy who suspected something was up from the beginning--just not something this bad. Also, since he likes the NBA and has always stated that he likes it, he won't come off as one of those guys who is just piling on the "NBA sux" bandwagon.

Not bad for him at all. And, based on that first column, I think that he can add much more to the discussion than the vast majority of the talking heads.

He's been waiting for the Stern to pull the plug on the WNBA, but he'll take this. He's needed a new "calling" since the Red Sox won.

[MikeVic]

There's a lot of people who are gonna come out of this with big smiles on their faces -- Mark Cuban, Rasheed Wallace, and Shaq, for instance.

Why Rasheed and Shaq?

[rkmsuf]

Why Rasheed and Shaq?

I would assume because they can claim they were the victim of the fix.

[Logan]

Rasheed because he got into a confrontation with Donaghy outside of a game due to his bad calls that netted him a 7 game suspension.

Shaq because after one game a few years back in which Donaghy officiated, he complained about the calls and said something like "it was like the outcome was pre-determined." I heard the article and quote read on the radio, so no link right now but it shouldn't be hard to find.

edit: Here's (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jack_mccallum/07/20/ref.scandal/1.html) page 2 of an SI.com article that mentions both instances.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Mark Cuban's take on the situation:

http://www.blogmaverick.com/2007/07/20/calamity-as-catalyst/

[Logan]

I wonder how many past fines were returned to get that out of him.

[spleen1015]

Mark Cuban's take on the situation:

http://www.blogmaverick.com/2007/07/20/calamity-as-catalyst/

:D

I'm sure that is he public take on the situation.

[Ksyrup]

Interesting article/interview with Brandon Lang on ESPN.com. One particular answer:


ESPN.com: Given your expertise in watching and wagering on games, what influence does a referee or official have in the gambling outcome?

BL: If he has action on the game and wants something in particular to happen, I'd say 75 percent. I've been asked for years if games could be fixed. And I always told people not by players. Because the guys in the key positions who could get something done, your quarterbacks and running backs, are making millions and aren't going to risk it all to help some friend make $100,000. An official, though, could do it. In the NFL, there's a task force that on Monday reviews every critical call that came anywhere near the point spread. I don't believe that's ever been done in the NBA.

[gstelmack]

I wonder how many past fines were returned to get that out of him.

Huh? He's basically saying "good, now we can fix the atrocious refereeing that I've been complaining about for a long time". He's saying it in a very nice way, but look at his "catalyst for change" comments.

[gstelmack]

In the NFL, there's a task force that on Monday reviews every critical call that came anywhere near the point spread.

I wonder if that includes coaches kicking the FG instead of going for the winning TD :D

(one of TMQ's favorite points...)

[Solecismic]

I wonder how many past fines were returned to get that out of him.

Desperation, more likely. This story, if it has legs, has the power to further erode support for a sport that's already reeling from lack of interest.

We like our teams to be the best in the world. Can you imagine an NBA where the best American players go to Italian teams, or Croatian teams? The value of Cuban's franchise would drop much more than any amount of potential fining.

This story brings us one step closer to the day when the Michael Jordan of the next generation plays his home games in Rome, and only stops by every four summers.

[Arles]

Yep, as crazy as it sounds, I could see soccer taking the place of the NBA and NHL in the next 10 years. Heck, there are 4 million US kids playing soccer right now that are just a shrewd soccer businessman away from following that sport instead of the NBA. Plus, soccer has much more appeal to suburban america than the current state of the NBA - it just lacks the marketing.

[rkmsuf]

Yep, as crazy as it sounds, I could see soccer taking the place of the NBA and NHL in the next 10 years. Heck, there are 4 million US kids playing soccer right now that are just a shrewd soccer businessman away from following that sport instead of the NBA. Plus, soccer has much more appeal to suburban america than the current state of the NBA - it just lacks the marketing.

this has been posted every couple years for the last 30 years

soccer will never appeal to a broad us audience simply for the fact it doesn't translate to tv in america the way it needs to.

it's a great participatory youth sport but that's about it on this side of the pond. the best atheletes will continue to play the major sports.

I say the world needs to invent a new sport. It's been quite a long time since a new team game was invented.

[Subby]

Yep, as crazy as it sounds, I could see soccer taking the place of the NBA and NHL in the next 10 years. Heck, there are 4 million US kids playing soccer right now that are just a shrewd soccer businessman away from following that sport instead of the NBA. Plus, soccer has much more appeal to suburban america than the current state of the NBA - it just lacks the marketing.
No offense, youngster...but they were saying this when I was growing up and playing soccer. They say it every single generation.

It isn't like this is the best it is going to get for basketball. This is probably close to the nadir. Once they get rid of Stern it can only get better.

[spleen1015]

Look at the sports that are most popular. It seems to me that a lot of them are sports that were created in this country.

Oh and NASCAR is the taking over. :D

[gstelmack]

Isn't the big change though the growing Hispanic population that loves soccer? Could that have an influence here?

I do think that what has happened is the NFL has taken up the slack as the NBA, NHL, and MLB declined. MLB is starting to get some of that back, but the other two just keep sliding.

[spleen1015]

I do think that what has happened is the NFL has taken up the slack as the NBA, NHL, and MLB declined. MLB is starting to get some of that back, but the other two just keep sliding.

I don't know about MLB. They keep saying every year that they have reached new records of attendance.

[Logan]

Huh? He's basically saying "good, now we can fix the atrocious refereeing that I've been complaining about for a long time". He's saying it in a very nice way, but look at his "catalyst for change" comments.

Jim hit on it...he could've came out and buried the league if he wanted to, but this "we can get through this with the correct measures" was the right play for the sake of the league.

[gstelmack]

I don't know about MLB. They keep saying every year that they have reached new records of attendance.

But their TV audience was declining I thought.

Edit: Yup. See http://www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wstv.shtml

[Arles]

this has been posted every couple years for the last 30 years

soccer will never appeal to a broad us audience simply for the fact it doesn't translate to tv in america the way it needs to.
How does baseball translate well to TV? Grab a random European sports fan and sit them in front of a TV to watch baseball. They will change the channel in 2 minutes.

it's a great participatory youth sport but that's about it on this side of the pond. the best atheletes will continue to play the major sports.

I say the world needs to invent a new sport. It's been quite a long time since a new team game was invented.
I think soccer could do very well here if some investment is made from a marketing and "media engine" standpoint. Perhaps this Beckham fiasco starts the ball rolling..

[spleen1015]

I'll never watch soccer more than a WC game here and there, regardless of how the marketing machine tries to get me to.

[Logan]

But their TV audience was declining I thought.

Edit: Yup. See http://www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wstv.shtml

TV ratings are down in damn near everything, I think even the Super Bowl. It's really a given in our current society with everything else going on from a technology and entertainment perspective.

Baseball attendance is still up. What that truly means is up for debate.

[rkmsuf]

How does baseball translate well to TV? Grab a random European sports fan and sit them in front of a TV to watch baseball. They will change the channel in 2 minutes.


I think soccer could do very well here if some investment is made from a marketing and "media engine" standpoint. Perhaps this Beckham fiasco starts the ball rolling..


I'm in America. Not Europe. I don't care if the soccer people in Europe are bored by baseball.

And the Beckham thing has gone over like a fart in Pumpy's face.

They been pushing soccer for decades in the US. Don't think they haven't tried to ram the game down the throat of the American public. It ain't going to happen in spite of how great the game is globally.

[spleen1015]

TV ratings are down in damn near everything, I think even the Super Bowl. It's really a given in our current society with everything else going on from a technology and entertainment perspective.

Baseball attendance is still up. What that truly means is up for debate.

Video games are taking over the world.

[rkmsuf]

Video games are taking over the world.

soccer video games?

[Ksyrup]

And the Beckham thing has gone over like a fart in Pumpy's face.

What about a violent cough or vomiting in his general vicinity?

[rkmsuf]

What about a violent cough or vomiting in his general vicinity?

"stalls" is not an ambiguous thread title.

[Logan]

soccer video games?

Only in non-America, obviously.

[Arles]

The point is that if the NBA isn't careful, it could end up going down the road towards the NHL. The NBA finals were a joke ratings-wise and this type of scandal could severly damage the sport.

Now, do I think soccer will rival the NBA over the next 10 years - probably not. But, I could see it happening if the NBA doesn't handle this right and soccer begins to pick up. That's why it would have been insanely stupid for someone like Mark Cuban to give a vote of no confidence to the league on this issue.

[rkmsuf]

I think if some way the NBA declines to that point then the alternative is not soccer but nothing.

I can't see disgruntled NBA fans suddenly discovering soccer.

[larrymcg421]

I wonder if the stats-obsessed American sports fans will take to Soccer. I mean, isn't it gonna be difficult to explain that your team spent millions of dollars on a midfielder who is supposed to be the best player in the game, but he doesn't score any goals?

[Bubba Wheels]

this has been posted every couple years for the last 30 years

soccer will never appeal to a broad us audience simply for the fact it doesn't translate to tv in america the way it needs to.

it's a great participatory youth sport but that's about it on this side of the pond. the best atheletes will continue to play the major sports.

I say the world needs to invent a new sport. It's been quite a long time since a new team game was invented.

One thing holding back Soccer from taking off in this country has been playing in stadiums not built for it. That is changing, as the new Soccer-only fields put the fans much closer to the action and create a much better 'atmosphere.'

In Japan, soccer is already displacing baseball among the younger fans. Why so hard to believe that a sport most kids play growing up cannot ever gain any traction pro-wise?

Pontiac, Michigan, largest city in Oakand County has just announced construction of the largest indoor soccer-only facility in North America. This will also become home for the Michigan Bucks, minor league team of the Columbus Crew. Multi-million dollar project. Yes, you can certainly see how soccer has no real future in the U.S.!http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070718/BIZ/707180341/1001

[rkmsuf]

One thing holding back Soccer from taking off in this country has been playing in stadiums not built for it. That is changing, as the new Soccer-only fields put the fans much closer to the action and create a much better 'atmosphere.'

uh huh, right

[Logan]

uh huh, right

Yep, shape of stadium revolutionizes how I don't care about soccer.

[rkmsuf]

Yep, shape of stadium revolutionizes how I don't care about soccer.

if they make the stadium smaller it seems fuller

[MikeVic]

I say the world needs to invent a new sport. It's been quite a long time since a new team game was invented.

We let Slamball just die.

[MikeVic]

Dola,

or what about that game where you use your forearms and hands to hit a ball back and forth on a table? I heard that's good enough for the Olympics.

[larrymcg421]

This is the perfect opportunity for Toccer to take off. Get on it, Ron!

[Butter]

HDTV will actually be really good for soccer, because it will more closely replicate watching soccer from the stadium. Soccer is very much like hockey... and football (but to a lesser degree). Seeing the whole field greatly enhances your appreciation and enjoyment of it. That's part of why soccer on regular TV seems so boring to many casual viewers.

Problem is Fox Soccer Channel is far from investing into HD technology to broadcast games.

Soccer is growing in America, despite what the naysayers have to say. But I will agree with ksmurf in that it's not as though disgruntled fans from other sports will suddenly take to soccer. It's going to be a long, slow growth that will come from soccer kids staying interested in the sport after their personal involvement ends.

[Pumpy Tudors]

We let Slamball just die.
I agree, and I am mad as hell about it. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Arles]

I wonder if the stats-obsessed American sports fans will take to Soccer. I mean, isn't it gonna be difficult to explain that your team spent millions of dollars on a midfielder who is supposed to be the best player in the game, but he doesn't score any goals?
Wouldn't that be akin to paying $49 million for an offensive guard in football? Look at all these stats for a guy who got that much last offseason:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235219

There's a lot of 0s there...

[Ksyrup]

Wouldn't that be akin to paying $49 million for an offensive guard in football? Look at all these stats for a guy who got that much last offseason:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235219

There's a lot of 0s there...

No, not really, because people in this country have decades of experience/knowledge watching football and understand what a guard does and what separates a good one from a lousy one. Like with baseball, it's just something we know from growing up with the game. There isn't that depth of understanding of soccer - even if you played as a kid, you didn't watch it on TV like we watch football/baseball.

It's also the difference between paying a lot of money to a big, faceless guy who hides on a line and does the grunt work, versus paying $250M to a guy who is supposed to be the face of a league but whose skills most Americans (includin myslef) can't appreciate because we don't have that innate understanding of the game that can only come from spending your life around the game.

[Arles]

I agree it would be a process that would take some time. Still, almost everyone has played soccer at some level in their life that has any interest in sports. So, you have a built-in advantage on the learning curve. My point is that if we Americans can stand a 4-hour baseball game between Doug Davis and Steve Trachsel - as well as understand the value of a $40 million guard or left tackle, there's so reason why we can't appreciate a good game of soccer.

It just comes down to the sport becoming more mainstream (which has always been the barrier) and will involve someone making an investment in growing the sport. IMO, there's a large base ready to support professional soccer in a wider manner in the NE, SW and California. If you can get a few Beckham-types over to broaded the appeal (and hit older traditional soccer markets like St. Louis), there's a chance soccer could start catching on.

[Ksyrup]

I guess what I'm saying is that playing it for a few years as a kid is different than "growing up with it." There is very little built-in family infrastructure that makes us want to enjoy the game beyond as a physical activity. There is no sense of...history, family, community...all the things that make football and baseball such a part of our lives. What you're talking about would take decades to achieve, along with the growing Latino communities in this country. But even then, I don't see widespread appeal for this at all. There are simply too many other sports and entertainment activities for soccer to make that big an impression on the collective psyche of this country anywhere approaching the big 3 sports. Could it overtake hockey? Sure, but that's not saying much.

[st.cronin]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/2007/07/22/2007-07-22_rogue_ref_may_blow_whistle-3.html

Federal authorities believe the referee at the center of the betting and game-fixing probe rocking the NBA will cooperate with investigators - and possibly name other officials or players involved in the scandal, law enforcement sources told The News.

Players? Wow, this could get really interesting.

[Karlifornia]

Thank you, Stcronin.....I clicked onto this page, and had no idea what the thread was about until you posted.

[Ksyrup]

An ambulance is needed at NBA HQ because a few people on the FOFC believe soccer is going to replace basketball as the 3rd most popular sport in the US. That's this thread in a nutshell.

[Ksyrup]

Good article on ESPN.com where a gambling expert picked apart Donaghy's games against the spread. Here's an excerpt:



In the two seasons in which the FBI is investigating Donaghy for allegedly fixing games for gambling purposes, Bell found that, in games when Donaghy was part of the officiating crew, NBA teams scored more points than Las Vegas expected (hitting the over) 57 percent of the time. With a league average of 49 to 51 percent, the odds of such an occurrence are 19 to 1.

When Bell analyzed the numbers from the two seasons before the two in question, he discovered that, in games Donaghy officiated, NBA teams scored more points than Vegas expected just 44 percent of the time.

Although the 13 percent difference might not seem that jarring to the casual observer, it's jaw-dropping in the world of sports gambling. Bell said the odds of a 44 percent probability happening 57 percent of the time are about 1 in 1,000.

"There's a 99.9 percent chance that these results would not have happened without an outside factor," Bell said. "Something abnormal was going on here."

[molson]

In the two seasons in which the FBI is investigating Donaghy for allegedly fixing games for gambling purposes, Bell found that, in games when Donaghy was part of the officiating crew, NBA teams scored more points than Las Vegas expected (hitting the over) 57 percent of the time. With a league average of 49 to 51 percent, the odds of such an occurrence are 19 to 1.



There's some good stats in here, but I don't think this is one of them. Wouldn't the odds of any individual percentage here be a longshot when it comes to odds? Even so, doesn't this just say he's whistle-happier than some refs?

[Huckleberry]

Even so, doesn't this just say he's whistle-happier than some refs?

Not when you consider the part where he was less whistle-happy than other refs in the years before the FBI believes he was compromised.

[gstelmack]

Not when you consider the part where he was less whistle-happy than other refs in the years before the FBI believes he was compromised.

When did the NBA ask the refs to start cracking down on handchecks, etc? It wasn't that long ago that everyone was crying about how many whistles were being blown.

[MikeVic]

Can I bet on the 19 to 1 odds? :D

[flere-imsaho]

An ambulance is needed at NBA HQ because a few people on the FOFC believe soccer is going to replace basketball as the 3rd most popular sport in the US. That's this thread in a nutshell.

Define "popular". In terms of active participation, I wouldn't be surprised if soccer lags behind only baseball. In terms of viewership, if the NBA doesn't find a way to make the Finals more exciting, I could see it, eventually.

[Ksyrup]

Define "popular". In terms of active participation, I wouldn't be surprised if soccer lags behind only baseball. In terms of viewership, if the NBA doesn't find a way to make the Finals more exciting, I could see it, eventually.

Imagine the response if I hadn't been joking?

And BTW, everything revolves around money. Millions of people "actively participate" in bowling, too.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Millions of people "actively participate" in bowling, too.
I am one of those millions, and Parker Bohn III is a sexy, sexy man.

[miami_fan]

Stern's press conference is underway.

[Ksyrup]

I am one of those millions, and Parker Bohn III is a sexy, sexy man.

I hadn't seen bowling on TV in years, but a couple weeks ago I accidentally ran across a TV bowling event and couldn't believe what they had done to try to spice it up. It was comical, really. Boxing-like introductions, crowd going wild, fireworks, etc. It was great...until they, you know, started bowling.

[rkmsuf]

I hadn't seen bowling on TV in years, but a couple weeks ago I accidentally ran across a TV bowling event and couldn't believe what they had done to try to spice it up. It was comical, really. Boxing-like introductions, crowd going wild, fireworks, etc. It was great...until they, you know, started bowling.

there was one guy that would do like this X sign and kind of grab his junk after a great shot. it was like effeminate wwf with bowling.

[Arles]

there was one guy that would do like this X sign and kind of grab his junk after a great shot.
Nobody F**ks with the Jesus

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4uGn897P2-Q"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4uGn897P2-Q" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[Bubba Wheels]

About a year ago I read a book, "Return of the Godfather." Supposedly taking place between 2 and 3, the book concentrates on a character that is a rival of Michael's from another family.

One passage really hit me at the time and sticks out today. Goes something like '...(the main character) saw a civilian looking at the sporting page and smiled to himself. Like many others, he too liked sports earlier in life until he discovered the real truth behind them. Now he (the character) wouldn't touch them with a ten-foot pole."

[Ksyrup]

No clue if this is the first in what will likely be many instances of people over-analyzing Donaghy's games, but this is a still of him supposedly tapping Warriors center Andres Biendrens to tell him that he's been in the key too long (7 seconds is what the poster claims; this should have been a defensive 3-second call if true) in a stretch of a Bulls/Warriors game where the Bulls are trying to run the game clock down at the end of a game, but which ended up going to OT with the Bulls losing.

This is probably going to get out of control, and just shows how impossible it would likely be (assuming he just doesn't spill the beans, which it sounds like he will) to prove what was part of a fix and what wasn't.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r243/ver3403/snap-7192603.jpg

[Pumpy Tudors]

I hadn't seen bowling on TV in years, but a couple weeks ago I accidentally ran across a TV bowling event and couldn't believe what they had done to try to spice it up. It was comical, really. Boxing-like introductions, crowd going wild, fireworks, etc. It was great...until they, you know, started bowling.
You were great... until you, you know, got to that last sentence. :mad: :mad: :mad:

:)

[Ksyrup]

What, you think bowling is a great TV sport? I'm not talking about actually participating.

[stevew]

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r243/ver3403/snap-7192603.jpg


There's no way they would call Defensive 3 seconds this late in the game. It rarely gets called as it is, and i've never seen it happen that late in the game. Usually they go with the "token" d-3 seconds call midway through the first quarter, and then let it slide the rest of the way.

[duckman]

There's no way they would call Defensive 3 seconds this late in the game. It rarely gets called as it is, and i've never seen it happen that late in the game. Usually they go with the "token" d-3 seconds call midway through the first quarter, and then let it slide the rest of the way.

Welcome to Hollywood!

[Pumpy Tudors]

What, you think bowling is a great TV sport? I'm not talking about actually participating.
The professionalism of Walter Ray Williams, Jr.
The smoothness of Parker Bohn III.
The power of Tommy Jones.
The coolness of Norm Duke.
The technique of Chris Barnes.
The killer instinct of Mikka Koivuniemi.
The charm of Tony Reyes.
The versatility of Mike Machuga.
The showmanship of Pete Weber.

OH MY GOD MAN WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

Edit: SERIOUSLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

[Ksyrup]

The professionalism of Walter Ray Williams, Jr.
The smoothness of Parker Bohn III.
The power of Tommy Jones.
The coolness of Norm Duke.
The technique of Chris Barnes.
The killer instinct of Mikka Koivuniemi.
The charm of Tony Reyes.
The versatility of Mike Machuga.
The showmanship of Pete Weber.

OH MY GOD MAN WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

Edit: SERIOUSLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

I was hoping that spelled something, but unless you are trying to tell me something about your PSP in code, I got nothing out of that.

[spleen1015]

Norm Duke is far more versatile than Machuga.

Machuga shouldn't even be on your list. What the fuck are you thinking?

Tommy Jones throws one hell of a ball though.

Coolness of Brian Voss, me thinks.

Oh and Williams is far from professional.

[Logan]

I think from now on, when Pumpy wants to talk bowling, he's gotta post a Pumpy pic.

If he posts a Pumpy Bowling pic, he's covered for the next 3 bowling-related posts.

Deal?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Norm Duke is far more versatile than Machuga.

Machuga shouldn't even be on your list. What the fuck are you thinking?

Tommy Jones throws one hell of a ball though.

Coolness of Brian Voss, me thinks.

Oh and Williams is far from professional.
I like Mike Machuga. I like him a lot. He would never be my first choice to make any particular shot, but I'd trust him to make just about anything. He can also do a hell of a flop, obviously.

I didn't mention Brian Voss for two reasons: 1. I forgot about him. 2. He just looks kinda smarmy to me. He's definitely cool, though, so I'll agree with you there.

From what I've gathered, Walter Ray Williams was almost too professional for the current tour. His quiet, workman-like demeanor doesn't fit. He's a little too dry for me, but I always just chalked that up to his professionalism. We may disagree on that, though. :)

[Pumpy Tudors]

Now, if any of you people want to keep egging me on, I'm going to start talking about Arena Football and really blow y'all fucking minds out.

[spleen1015]

What do you know about women's collegiate softball?

[MikeVic]

What do you know about women's collegiate softball?

Is that with Jennie Finch?

[Pumpy Tudors]

What do you know about women's collegiate softball?
Ummm... it doesn't necessarily have to be Division I, right?

[MikeVic]

Ummm... it doesn't necessarily have to be Division I, right?

Are you saying you play on a women's softball team, but dress like a woman to do so? Someone's been watching Ladybugs...

[Pumpy Tudors]

Are you saying you play on a women's softball team, but dress like a woman to do so? Someone's been watching Ladybugs...
NCAA Division II, yes, and Ladybugs is a great movie.

"I made my girlfriend's son wear a dress, and I tried get him to play with me!"

[Logan]

What I would've done to Kimberly.

[Pumpy Tudors]

What I would've done to Jonathan Brandis... well, when he was alive... I mean... um...

Yeah, that Kimberly was hot.

[Izulde]

Kimberly was hot and the bikini scene rocked.

[path12]

I wonder if the stats-obsessed American sports fans will take to Soccer. I mean, isn't it gonna be difficult to explain that your team spent millions of dollars on a midfielder who is supposed to be the best player in the game, but he doesn't score any goals?

And don't forget that soccer has had its own game-fixing scandals recently in Italy and Germany. I love the game and wish there was a bigger presence here, but fixing is something that any professional league has to look at.

Except golf, maybe.

[King of New York]

And don't forget that soccer has had its own game-fixing scandals recently in Italy and Germany. I love the game and wish there was a bigger presence here, but fixing is something that any professional league has to look at.

Except golf, maybe.

Sergio Garcia is mobbed up.

There's no other explanation.

[Ksyrup]

I'd rather join Pumpy on the bowling bandwagon than watch golf. I hope the mob gets involved, might spice up the game a bit.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'd rather join Pumpy on the bowling bandwagon than watch golf. I hope the mob gets involved, might spice up the game a bit.
Thanks, pal. I'll save you a seat between Billy Oatman and Patrick Allen.

[rkmsuf]

Thanks, pal. I'll save you a seat between Billy Oatman and Patrick Allen.

Is bowling an Olympic sport? That might be up his alley.

[MikeVic]

Are there strong personalites in bowling? Someone needs a strike to win and says "if I get this strike, your sister is in my bed tonight." And then the other bowler has to be held back. And then the guy gets a strike and performs some sort of sexual innuendo, and there's a tussle between them both?

[rkmsuf]

Are there strong personalites in bowling? Someone needs a strike to win and says "if I get this strike, your sister is in my bed tonight." And then the other bowler has to be held back. And then the guy gets a strike and performs some sort of sexual innuendo, and there's a tussle between them both?

Have you seen some of these bowlers? I think it's the guy trailing that says "If you get a strike and win, my sister is in your bed."

[Pumpy Tudors]

Are there strong personalites in bowling? Someone needs a strike to win and says "if I get this strike, your sister is in my bed tonight." And then the other bowler has to be held back. And then the guy gets a strike and performs some sort of sexual innuendo, and there's a tussle between them both?
I could see that happening between a couple of the more successful pros. I could also see myself saying that to some of the jackasses i've had the "pleasure" of bowling next to on Thursday nights.

[Ksyrup]

Have you seen some of these bowlers? I think it's the guy trailing that says "If you get a strike and win, my sister is in your bed."

Hey, Pumpy will have you know that these guys are so full of personality, they sleep with their own sisters as well as their opponent's.

[rkmsuf]

Hey, Pumpy will have you know that these guys are so full of personality, they sleep with their own sisters as well as their opponent's.


That's dedication! Dare is say "real" bowlers.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Seriously, I think I saw Kelly Kulick sleep with her own sister once.

[MikeVic]

Seriously, I think I saw Kelly Kulick sleep with her own sister once.

That's hot.

Real bowlers indeed.

[spleen1015]

You guys just don't understand bowling.

[TroyF]

Something I love from reading the reports today:

He tipped his co-conspirators through the use of encoded language based on information about players' physical condition and information about the relationship between referees and players in the league.

Ummm. . . if the NBA refs fairly Mr. Stern, why would a relationship between refs and players be useful for inside information in determining the winner of a game?

[molson]

Something I love from reading the reports today:

He tipped his co-conspirators through the use of encoded language based on information about players' physical condition and information about the relationship between referees and players in the league.

Ummm. . . if the NBA refs fairly Mr. Stern, why would a relationship between refs and players be useful for inside information in determining the winner of a game?

With multiple referees in trouble wth the feds over the years (several served time for tax evasion), I have to assume that Stern isn't doing anything criminal with regard to the refs (giving specific instructions to fix games, ect). Surely, if you're one of these dirty referees, you volunteer this information to get a better plea deal.

I think your quoted line could just deal with info that Referee X hates Player X and thinks he gets away with shit with other referees. That could be useful gambling info.

[stevew]

The ref assignments are supposed to be top secret supposedly, so I'm sure he has a pretty idea of who calls what, etc. And he knew what assignments were for what games cause of his inside knowledge. And if any of the refs have issues with certain players, it would be pretty important inside info. So, it's definitely an edge he was giving people.

[miami_fan]

I took Troy's quoted line as being in direct conflict with what we have always heard from David Stern. Stern has always said that it was ridiculous to suggest that a ref's like or dislike of a player would influence how he officiates that player or a game that player participated in. In other words, a ref would not run Rasheed Wallace any quicker than he would a player who treated him nicely in the past if both players did the same thing. Or Michael Jordan would get the same quick whistle that the 12th guy on the bench would get. Obviously, Donaghy and his co-conspirators (along with many a NBA player) believe that those relationships factor into the way the game is called.